The Zac Clark Show - Comedian Rosebud Baker: Alcoholism, Postpartum, Divorce & What 19 Years Sober Really Looks Like

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Comedian, former Saturday Night Live writer, and author Rosebud Baker joins Zac for an honest conversation about addiction, grief, motherhood, divorce, and what long-term recovery actually looks like. Rosebud reflects on losing her seven-year-old sister, getting sober at 22, writing her memoir Fully Baked: A Messy Memoir, working at SNL while raising a newborn, and navigating divorce -- and how recovery isn't about becoming someone new, but about getting to the truth of who you already are. One of the most powerful moments comes when she explains why losing her sister and giving birth to her daughter felt strangely similar -- both shattered the life she thought she knew and forced her to see how fragile, and precious, all of it is. This is a conversation about what happens after the drinking stops: emotional suppression, family patterns, burnout, and the deeper work of staying present for your whole life without escaping yourself. Learn more about Rosebud Baker’s memoir here:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668016222?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback Follow Rosebud Baker:: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rosebudbaker/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rosebudbakerstandup Connect with Zac: https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Women don't get divorced because something happened. We get divorced because nothing happens for years. And then one thing happens. Rosebud Baker. She is one of the most fearless voices in comedy today. She's got a Netflix special out called The Mother Lode. She's got a book she just authored called Fully Baked. She's 19 years sober.

Comics are considered like cool. And I just, I think that sucks. I think that's like the death of comedy. And she really gives us an interesting look into the beautiful and tragic sides of recovery and sobriety. The hardest thing that you can go through as a couple is having a child together. And the stress of like postpartum. And the hormones that I was like, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through. And I've been through some hard shit.

Harder than losing your sister, harder than growing up with an alcoholic mom, harder than having a dad that's like not available. Yeah, because with my sister, there was shock. Postpartum, you're just walking around as raw as you could possibly be. You're supposed to just carry on. Nothing fucking happened. You're supposed to work like you're not a mother, and you're supposed to mother like you don't work. Buckle up, Rosebud Baker is today's guest on the Zach Clark Show,

and I really hope you listen, share, and enjoy. Keep going. I thought I was bipolar. I hoped I was bipolar. If I'm bipolar, then this is like some sort of like, I'm a brilliant fucking artist. I really wanted to be like a total. tortured, unique, fucking artist.

And it was like, I was a fucking alcoholic. How do you get sober? All right, we are here at the Zach Clark show with Rosebud Baker, who I feel like I could start in a million different places with you, but I think, hello is a good start. Hello. She's got a book that just came out or came out. The print version kind of just hit the shelves. Yeah, did it?

I mean, I'm so out of, I'm so out of the loop. Well, we went to Barnes & Noble and Noble and got that. shit. So it's here. Fully baked by Rosebud Baker. Great. And I listened to her on a podcast with what's it? Burt Kircher is that his name? Bert Kreischer.

Kreischer. Yeah. His wife Leanne. Yeah. You're on her podcast and that started with basically like her telling you that you had read the book and you're like, good. I like to go on podcasts where people have actually read the book. So I have read some of the book.

Okay. That's great. I'm not fully through it. That's great. I found myself kind of pumped. up reading it because we came up in the world at the same time. We're similar in age and you're like talking about like a police song in there and like music and like kids today. Are they going to grow up around cigarette smoke? Like no. These kids today. Yeah. I know. I know. It's and were you in

New York at the time too when you were. No, I grew up in like a waspy town. Okay. In South Jersey. Okay. All right. You love the wasps. You're a lot of. I'm familiar with. the wasps. I did not read your grandfather's 700 page biography. Neither did I. I didn't finish it. I sort of got to the parts that involved me. I skimmed through it to be like, what parts involve me directly?

Like, what parts involve my family dynamics? Yeah. And I scanned it for that. So Rosebud for you, she's a comedian. She is, and by the way, I told one of our staff at release recovery, his name is Jace Knudson, and he is like one of these newly sober. wanting to, not newly, he's got like five years, but wanting to be on the comedy scene. We have a program in Austin.

He's like, no fucking way. I love her, you know, so, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, he was super pumped. That's awesome. I love when other comics are, you know, I kind of, when other comics like what you're doing, that's the, to me, that's like the biggest compliment. And you're sober, how long now?

I'm sober now, 19 years. How's that feel? Good. It feels good, you know, but it's life. Life is, you know, you, I don't feel like picking up a drink, you know, but like I still have to deal with myself. And I'm a difficult person to deal with, you know. I wake up every morning and I go, not this bitch again. Is that real or is that just something that we say is that?

No, I really, that's real, you know. I mean, I start off the day vehemently on my own side. And then as the day progresses, I'm just shown that I'm an asshole in like various ways. You know, some days I'm pretty good. But I would say like, you were talking about overthinking before we like hit record. And it's like, it's nonstop. Like I can't stop. I'm just constantly like. And now. it's like it sucks because it's a skill I actually need in my life. Like I need to be thinking about like I have a toddler and I and I have a career to balance and I'm constantly thinking how is this going to affect her? How is she going to affect this? How am I going to be affected? Like it's just the mental gymnastics of like planning my life are required. So it's like, using that skill in a productive way is just to... How old is she named her kid Minnow. Yeah.

I love that. Your daughter's name is Minnow and you joke that you're 5 foot 3 and she's 3 foot 5. So this baby... That's not a joke. That's a real thing. Oh, that's real. That's real. That's not a bit.

No, that's not a bit. She's 3 foot 5. And I'm 5 foot 3. And she's 2 years old. Set 1%? Is that one, like in the 1%? It's, yeah, it's like the 99th percentile. Yeah.

Like of height. Yeah. She's up there. She's real tall. That's great. She's a tall girl. She calls me her tiny mommy. Yeah.

She goes, hi, my tiny mommy. And then I'll say, I say, hi, my tiny baby, just so that, you know. Yeah. But she started it. She started that little nickname. And just for some more contact. So you grew up your grandfather, who I referenced earlier, what's the name of the book? The man who made Washington or the man?

Most, I think it's the most powerful man in Washington or something. Yeah, I run shit. man shit in Washington. What is it? The man who ran Washington. Right, yeah, there we go. I don't even remember the title. But yeah, he was Secretary of State under George Bush Sr.

Yeah. Negotiated the end of the Cold War. And yeah. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. And you won a five kids, right? Mm-hmm.

And lost one of your sister. Yeah. Yeah. She was seven years old. she died at it was a graduation party for my graduating class at a friend's house and you're 17 right your 10 years or senior I was like 16 or 17 yeah um and I think 17 when she died that's what the book says but yeah because she was seven so I was yeah I was 17 um but she passed away uh she was playing in a hot tub and the drain at the bottom of this hot tub

like was so powerful that it held her down and like three grown men couldn't pull her out of out of it and it's it's like why all of those signs were out so you know whenever you're at hot tub it's like nobody under 16 is allowed it's because those those fucking drains have like disemboweled children you know and and and then these you know pool companies just kept like paying off families. And, you know, when my mom, not paying them off, but you know what I'm saying, like there was nothing that they could do to change the laws so that, you know, when my mom, when this happened to my family, my mom was in a position where she could fight for legislation and fought to get the Virginia Graham Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act enabled. So,

and basically put covers on all of these drains. And now, you know, Trump's in office and he's like removed all of these things. I don't know what's happened with everything. I'm like, I can't even like, I can't even look, you know. Just like I don't even want them. No. But you grew up in a Republican household, right? I mean, like, yeah.

Yeah, very. Yeah. They were very like, blue blood Republicans. I mean, listen, are they different times? Like, I don't really consider. consider, I consider that kind of like giving them an easy out. Like I look at the stuff that like Reagan was doing and that Bush was doing. And it's a direct line to what Trump is doing.

Trump is just the cartoonish end result of like the path that they were already on. And they'll say to themselves, we didn't have anything to do. This is crazy. But it's like, no, if you look at Reagan's campaign, it's all like, like, Trump was copying his campaign. So all of it was, they're connected. They just don't want to be. Yeah.

So on the, I mean, I could, I'm like having a moment now because when I was reading it in the book and the lead up to this day, this picnic with Graham, obviously you explain it in detail where you get her ready and she's kind of this kindred spirit who you were helping raise really in a lot of ways, right? I mean, you were bringing her along as like the older sister and you put on the little tutu and she kind of had some of these sayings that are you excited about raising Minow?

Because the forward to the book, I mean, like what I'm getting at is like you wrote this beautiful kind of like thank you at the beginning to Graham and Minow. Graham was your sister that you lost and Minow who was your daughter for teaching you suffering and love. Can you just maybe we'll start there, suffering and love? Well, I say that like those. are the biggest tools of transformation. It's like suffering and love. Those are the two that like

and when I lost my sister and when my daughter was born, I was really surprised at how and maybe this is because I have a history of loss, but how similarly the two experiences, how similar they felt those two experiences, just in the sense of like, this changes everything. You know, like it was such a paradigm shift to go from having a complete family to missing a sibling, you know, a young sibling. And it was such a massive paradigm shift to go from living my life without a kid to then being responsible for someone's childhood. you know so it was a huge you know I was just like oh it's it is like death like life and death that I never saw them as intertwined as I did in that moment like I was like oh yeah because when you meet somebody and they've just come from like whatever the other side is of like

life and they're that close to like that like the veil of whatever wherever we are like before we're born you go whoa this is like that's so fragile and and it's your job to guide this like perfect fragile brand new like soul they're like not even you're holding them and it's like Like you're not even really a person. You're a soul in my arms. And I'm supposed to take you through life. Like, fuck, that's terrifying. Right.

You know? It's as terrifying as facing your own life after losing someone. It's this just, you're like, nothing is ever, ever going to be the same. You know, I just grew up so much in an hour. So that's how it that's kind of how it felt Nothing can prepare you for motherhood Nothing can prepare you for a moment like you had For yeah

Mm-hmm So hard to talk about it? It is, it's hard for me to talk about it Because it's hard for me to It's hard for me to connect to my own grief still It is. Have you done a lot of things? Yeah.

Yeah. But the smile says it. Yeah. I've done my time. You know what I mean? But I also, you know, there's something in my brain and probably in my upbringing that sort of taught me like that that stuff is done away from other people, you know, like that you can feel those feelings, but you have to be felt. Something in your upbringing? I mean, like I saw it all over your upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like keep that. If you're going to to cry, just do it over there. You know what I mean? Like don't, you're, you're fucking it up for the rest of us, you know. And I, I have that in me. So, you know, but at the same time, I'm sober. I've done a lot of therapy. I've done a lot of like post-traumatic, you know, work on myself. And, you know, you have to, I've, I've really like,

let a lot of this out, but I've just done it in like a safe space. And I remember my therapist being like, hey, you know, the idea is that you learn how to do that here. And then you're like able to also access it outside of this room. And I was like, what? Like he said this to me. I must have been like eight years into therapy when he said this. And I was like, that's fucking insane. I was like, get out of here.

Right. You know? But it's true. You are supposed to, you're supposed to be able to access your whole. your whole shit. They're all of your emotions and you're a human being. So, but yeah,

there is part of me that's just, I don't know, it's hard, it's hard to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I found one of the hardest things with therapy is like, there's a part of me that wants to stay mad.

There's a part of me that wants, like, permission to be angry and permission to blame and. Well, the thing about anger is like, and this is what I love about it, is like, it looks cooler.

It looks cooler. than being sad, you know? Well, and I just think, yeah, we're just laying down the sword, you know, like, and even if I'm in a disagreement with someone I love, a friend, a relationship, like, I don't ever want to lay the sword down, you know, but there's parts of therapy

and this evolution that I feel like, hey, let's just like let this one go and that never feels good to me. No, I hate it. I hate it. I hate letting something go. It is truly like maybe the worst The worst thing about me And the thing that I struggle with the most

Is letting go of my false sense of control And it's important that I say false Because it reminds me that I actually don't have any Because if you ask me I'm like Yeah no I'm like I'm the fucking I'm the puppeteer Right

We're starting very serious How does comedy play in that? Like how does comedy play into, because I do want to get into your childhood. You know, I wanted to touch on obviously that day with Graham, but I didn't want to make this conversation about that because you've talked about it and you shared about it. And you've done the work. So, you know, where, how does comic, like, where, like, when do you decide you want to be a comic? I like, it's going to sound weird, but like, I kind of didn't, you know, like the same way that you don't really decide to. to get sober, like it almost, it happens to you.

Did you know you were funny at a young age? People would say I was funny, but I resented it. I didn't like being told that. I didn't like being told I was funny. I wanted to be taken seriously. Like, I really did. And I think, um, I just never had a lot of respect for comedians. I was like, this is, this is an embarrassing job.

And I still find it to be a pretty embarrassing job. Why is that? Well, now it's embarrassing because comedians think they're cool, which is even worse. You know, like, that's the part that I'm just like, there's like comedians that are like, comedy's blown up in such a way. Yeah, social media has changed the game. That now, like, comics are considered, like, cool. And I just, I think that sucks.

I think that's like the death of comedy. Well, I saw Shane Gillies, like, I'm a Philly kid and he just sold out our football stadium and had all the celebrities coming at, you know him, right? I mean, I guess, yeah. Yeah. It's just like. I love shame. It's crazy, though.

And he's not, he's not somebody that's like, he doesn't want to, you know, like, he's just a guy. And he's, he's a cool guy. But he's, it's like this kind of, you know, I think he would agree that, like, there is, like, a level of like, oh, my fucking God. It's, like, embarrassing, you know? Yeah. Do you side quite, like. SNL being a staff, is that,

so in the sports world, I don't know if you pay attention to sports, but like ESPN, like if you're on Sports Center and you're a host on Sports Center, you want that gig, but notoriously it doesn't pay well. It's more about the, like,

yeah. Can you, I mean, like, it paid well for me. The staff writing. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what people, what these comics are making

before they go work for SNL where they're going like, it's not a lot of money. I mean, people are saying that. I mean, It's like a six figure, like, you know, like a real job. I'm like, give me one other job in entertainment.

Can you say what it is or no? No, I can't say what it is. But it's like, you're not making that kind of money on the road before doing S&L and then also taking that job. Like if you're making more money than that, why would you take that job? You know, I think it's a funny thing for people to say like, oh yeah, it just pays shit. And it's like, compared to what? what are you making now? Right.

You know? I mean, the idea is to get to a place where when you leave, you are making an equal amount of money on the road or more than what you were making at SNL because it's one of the best gigs in entertainment. Like, there are no gigs like that anymore. There's no, you're not making residuals like that from doing a streaming show.

you know um so it to me it was like this god send grateful you're grateful for i'm crazy grateful for it like i wouldn't have my home if it weren't for s andl got it like i wouldn't have that makes me happy yeah i wouldn't have um my daughter if it weren't for s andl i couldn't have paid for ivf i couldn't have you know which i didn't end up getting pregnant from ivf i vf i got pregnant by myself but like not by myself, but like it was actually God. Tell me about that one. Yeah. I was impregnated by God and she's the Messiah.

No, it's, so there's just so much in my life that I wouldn't have if it weren't for that job. That's cool. I hate, I have this thing where these big organizations know they're super sexy and know people want to work there. And so the way they get at you is just to pay them like shit. So I'm happy that they. Yeah.

I mean, listen. Is it good pay if you're selling out arenas? No. But like I was coming from like doing headlining gigs and I wasn't getting, my guarantees weren't that high, you know? And now it's like my guarantees have gotten higher and my ticket sales have gotten higher. And it's like now I'm in a place where I don't like have to be there, you know?

but it's I still am like that was crazy money to me at the time that's amazing yeah I mean you got into this a little bit with it I keep referencing this podcast with Leanne because I thought it was a really good conversation and you guys covered a lot of ground

and there was a there was an undertone in there of kind of you being the breadwinner which I appreciated like you know and like the dynamics there so maybe we'll we'll touch on that a little bit later but the I love when women crush. I do.

It's just like, you know, it's like, fuck everyone. Yeah. And that's also for me, I just, it's just sobriety.

It's that superpower that's hard to explain. Right. It is. It's, I mean, being sober has, I feel like I wouldn't, I mean,

I know that I wouldn't have my life. I was not a functional alcoholic. I was not like a, high functioning alcoholic. I was a very low functioning alcoholic. Yeah. Well, your family, I mean, you were dealt a tough hand. In some ways, yeah.

I mean, let's be honest. People have had it way fucking worse. I get it. But I'm talking about, I'm not talking about the, you had a roof over your head. You never wanted friends. I get all that. Yeah. And what I've learned working in behavioral health care.

is that there are plenty of people who have all the money in the world and they can't save anyone in their family because the dynamics are just so screwed up. And they stay sick and they stay in it because they can just keep throwing cash at a problem. That cash, you know, to some degree can help fix, but not ultimately. Yeah.

Yeah, you have to want to get better. Yeah, I mean, your mom's an alcoholic. Sober now. I know. Yeah, yeah. She gets over for you, right? Yeah. No, she got sober.

Did you say before me? Before you? Like before you got so. Oh, way before me. Yeah. Yeah. My mom's been sober for a long, long time.

Can you talk about that? Because there's just awesome. Was that your first drink when you kind of like took a tug of her OJ and there was vodka in it? I think so. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really count it as that. But yeah, it was like the OJ and vodka mix. Look, that was probably.

Or no, actually, there's a, there's a picture of me. I was maybe like eight. I'm wearing like a happy New Year's hot and I'm drinking champagne like on New Year's Eve. Yeah, that's a pretty tough hand. I mean, that's not normal, I will say, to be drinking at 8, to be sipping on mom's, you know, screwdriver at 12 and being told like it's, you know, the vitamin C. Is that how she said? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Your mom's a killer. Just to turn right to her 12 year old daughter and be like, that's vitamin C. Vodka. My mom's a badass, and she was like, it's surprising to me. She's still with us? She's still around? Yeah, yeah. It's surprising to me that she was able to be,

she was able to be such an incredible mom. Like, she really was, like, through all, through everything. She was just, like, such an incredible mom. And she was so fun. And I just remember, like, laughing with her. I never had any memories of her. of that were like negative you know what I mean like besides the ones in the book and I if there's anything I regret about what I wrote it's that I didn't focus enough on all of the memories that

I had with my mother that were like really affirming you know that made me feel I remember like crying one night like I was crying because I was like really different I always felt really different like most alcoholics, you know, and I remember going to bed at night crying, um, and being like, I don't know what's wrong with me. As a kid. As a kid. Like young kid, maybe first grade. And I was like, something's wrong with me, you know?

And she was like, wow, why are you saying that? And I was like, something's just wrong with me. Like I, I'm too sensitive or something. I remember saying that. And her going like, nobody don't let anybody ever tell you that. Now, now I work in comedy and it's like, no, I totally did let people tell me that because now I work in like the most, it's a group of like such sensitive people and no one can admit it. You know what I mean? Is that what it is in comedy?

Because I've always, I've always, I've always, I've always. Comics are so fucking sensitive. Like, you watch, okay, every comic, a comic can be killing. And if there's one person in the audience that's not laughing, they come off stage and that's the only thing that they talk about. They go, that motherfucker in the front row

would not uncross his arms, shake his shoulders even a little bit. Like, you just focus on that one person that didn't like you. That's called alcoholism. Yeah. Yeah, I mean. I guess that's why there's so many comics

that are in recovery. Yeah. I mean, it's, and I think part of why I loved the community of comedy so much was like, this is just like, I can't believe. Are there sense? I would have, as an outsider who just, like, sure, I get to meet some cool people. I get to kick it with you and do these kind of conversations from time to time.

But like, I've always been envious of comics because it feels like they have such thick skin, but I guess that's. Well, you learn to dull that because you're just, you are, like, surrounded by some of the funniest people. So, like, if somebody's making fun of you and what they're saying is more funny than it is mean, you just learn to have this. appreciation for like, well, that's just funny. Like, that's just the funniest thing I've ever heard. So you don't, you don't take to heart the part of it that's like mean or insensitive. You take what you take from it is the joke. Now, if somebody says to you something that they're trying to be funny, and this happens with the crowd a lot, you know, like after the show, they'll come up and they're trying to be funny, but they don't have the skill to like roast you.

So what they're saying, it just comes off mean And you go like, you know, you're like, I see what you're trying to do, but you don't have to try to do that. You could just be nice. Right. You don't have to. Great job.

Yeah, you could just be like nice job. You know what I mean? So, yeah, we're sensitive though. Yeah. And so because you do, and you got to read the book because it's like really, it's really well done. And I think for someone out there that is kind of coming up in this world and came up in this world in the 80s and 90s and two that like like just you painted

the perfect picture of kind of the American home back then yeah yeah which was dad is not going to shed a tear around anyone mom is going to kind of try to hold her shit together and yeah drink her way through it can you talk a little bit about your childhood yeah I mean we so I grew up outside of DC so a lot a lot of diplomats kids and politicians kids and you know um lawyers and fucking, it's like a really wealthy suburb. Nova. Yeah, my dad would wake up every morning. He'd put on a suit, he put on a tie, he'd fucking leave.

And then he'd come home and he was like a, you know, a celebrity that visited. Like, it was like, oh, you know, dad's home. But he wasn't like, he wasn't like that fun. He was kind of, he was just like really serious. and um you know my mom was like my mom was really fun she was like a free spirit and she was a painter and um she was you know but she was also like a woman at that time and it was like she was doing what was expected of women at that time which was like you go along to get along you you you if you're resentful you don't talk about it if you're angry you you

you don't say it. You know, you don't want to be like a resentful, bitter, angry woman. You want to avoid that whole stereotype, you know. But do you believe that was her or the, like, do you believe in generational trauma? Because you talk about your grandfather who was his storied man in Washington. And there's a bit in the book about, and I don't want to blow the whole book, but his wife guest breast cancer, and he doesn't tell anyone. They don't tell anyone.

Yeah. Like, they just show. shove it down to the point where they didn't tell each other and the kids well yeah and the kids yeah the kids didn't know about it I mean I look at my dad's life and I know it's insane so no wonder your dad is kind of like in your mom

yeah it's uh and my mom is like this very sensitive you know but but with someone who was completely emotionally like unavailable and um and I definitely believe in generational trauma because that's been my whole fucking everyone I've ever been with has been like I could have a nursing degree based on the men that I've dated

I like it's DUD after DUD is it No it's just like They're just they're all unavailable in their own way I'm gonna ask this question And then we're gonna get back to your childhood Because so you are And you've talked about this going through a separation

We don't need to dive into the whole thing Or I don't need the details of it But it's not working out with your Yeah, we're getting divorced. Yeah, you're getting divorced. And there was an interesting thing for me to hear. So I am of the belief that a lot of guys suck. Like, I just believe that fundamentally.

And I am at this age now at 40 years old where 42, where I'm seeing a lot of guys my age like cheat. Yeah. And it's so fucking crazy to me because when they cheat, It's really just them being scared of having the honest conversation about whatever's not working. So they push it all the way to the end here and literally go out and have an affair because they're so scared of actually just sitting down with their wife or their partner and having a conversation. Yeah.

Which is crazy. You talked about in a conversation I heard you have where you gave you actually gave your ex credit because he was the one who was willing to say like this isn't working well it was a little bit yeah it was yeah it was a little bit of both so like you know we had a tough conversation and there was you know

a moment in that conversation where like an ultimatum was brought up where it was like well if this matters to you then we should get separated and I said well then we're going to get separated. Good for you. And then, you know, the next day, there was, he was like, I didn't mean that, you know, I didn't, that was just a, you know, and I, and I said to him, I know that you didn't mean it. Like, I know that. And I'm not, this wasn't like an effort to call you on your bluff, you know,

it was that you gave me an out. And I felt, you know, when you said it, I just felt like, relief. Yeah. And that was like all I really needed to know. You know, there's like, the thing about it is that women don't get divorced because something happened. We get divorced because nothing happens for years. And then one thing happens. And we go, and it doesn't have to be a big thing, you know, it can be like, there's, it was just like a thing in my, it was a little bit of like a moment. Kind of similar to like getting sober where I just like, I got it. I was like, I know what the truth is here. I know what's happening here.

Can you even maybe selfishly for my own being a guy? Like, can you expand on that? Women don't get divorced because. It's because we will bring something up. This is, you'll hear a lot of men say the divorce came out of nowhere. And it's like it never did. It never comes out of nowhere. We've been talking to you.

for years about this. And every time we bring it up, it gets shut down or we're made to feel bad about bringing it up. Or just like there is no communication. There's no real communication around that issue. And so I think a lot of times, you know, a conversation will start. between couples where the woman will be like,

hey, can we talk about this thing? Yeah, I'm not making this specific to your... Yeah. But a woman will be like, can we talk about this thing? And the man will react in a way that's like defensive or, you know, shuts it down, basically. Well, I guess I'm the fucking worst. You know what I mean?

Like that kind of thing. Where you go, all right, well, I don't... There's nowhere for me to go from here because now I have to defend... Now I feel like... I have to defend something that I just, I brought up the problem, but now I'm feeling bad, you know? So, yeah, yeah, you get to a point where you go, there's, obviously there is no way to

solve this because you're not going, because you don't want to. So like, you're just left with the, and I think it can happen with men too. I think men can talk to women about it. It can happen both ways. a gender-specific thing. But basically, if both partners are not willing to tackle a problem, then there's nothing to be done about it. And by the time we were like in couples therapy, I remember being like, I have one foot out the door. I don't, I don't even want to fix it. Which is honest.

Yeah, I mean, I was like, I don't really feel like there's, you know, in order to really want to fix something, there has to be a level of like love and affection there that is, that's still present. And if that's not, that's, then you're not going to, nothing's going to happen. You're just, you're both doing it because you feel like you have to. Right. And I'm, I, I am, there is something. in me that like, and maybe this is why I say like, oh yeah, I feel like I've kind of always been a divorcee. Like I feel like somebody, one of my friends was like, honestly, like, you kind of

always have had like divorce say like as a vibe. And I was like, no, I agree. Because for me, I don't, I can't exist in something that doesn't match the way that I feel. Like if something doesn't feel true anymore, I'm not going to keep trying to be in it. You know, it's like, look at what's true and just make the choice based off of that. It might be the harder choice, but it's easier in the long run. Did you think the kid would fix it or help? No, no, no. When I had our daughter, I was like, we weren't, there wasn't like these, you know, now I'm getting divorced, so it's hard to like, you start to like reevaluate things and you, you're going to, you start to like, reevaluate things. go like did it was there anything that I could have seen where I could have changed it you know and but at the

time we were really in love and we both really wanted a kid and um at least I thought I did at least I thought we did and I I don't you know could I have paid closer attention to how much I think he was really, from what I remember, I think he was really excited about it. And I think we were both really in love. And we just wanted a child, you know? And then the, you have a child. And it's like, this, you don't really know the person that you're with. Like, you don't know what kind of parent they're going to be until they're a parent. And you don't know what kind of parent you're going to be until you're a parent. And you don't even, it's like the hardest thing that you can go through as a couple is having a child together. The stress of that and the stress of like postpartum,

not to mention the fact that I was writing a book, working at S&L, touring, and trying to raise a newborn. And be present for that and actually. And be present for that and be, and the hormones that I was like, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through. And I've been through some hard shit. That was the hardest thing I've ever been through. Harder than losing your sister, harder than growing up with an alcoholic mom, harder than having a dad that's not available.

Yeah, because with my sister, there was shock. At least I had shock to protect me. You know, like, postpartum, you're just walking around, like, as raw as you could possibly. be like you like someone ripped my fucking skin off and I was just walking around like exposed just like an open wound and you're supposed to just carry on like nothing fucking happened you're supposed to work like you're not a mother and you're supposed to mother like you like you don't work and the pressure and all of that that I was unaware of before just came rushing in at like such an alarming rate

and there's no way for him to have understood what I was going through and there was no way for me to have understood what he was going through and there was just this chasm that developed you know and it's sad like when I was reading the book and I was remembering like what it was like when we fell in love it made me really fucking sad because it was great I mean, he And they say breakup is worse than death

Because the person's still there And I'm not saying that to be dramatic I just I Yeah, I mean I don't know Those memories come back and it's like holy shit Like it was and then You know people find I think that's why people get in these cycles

These love cycles of like Can we make it work? Can we make it work? Yeah Can we get back to that? Yeah Yeah And that's where the toxic kind of shit Starts to happen

Because like you could probably make it work for a week Or a month or whatever it is And it feels good like the one little thing that's been like at the Achilles heel of whatever this relationship is comes back and the reaction is like just bigger and bigger each time. Yeah. I mean, I think once we said how unhappy we were, it like opened up this massive wound for both of us. And there was just so much resentment underneath like for both of us that like it's really hard.

When you're probably also using your tools, and this is probably true, like the tools of sobriety, the tools of therapy, the tools of the work that you've done, and that doesn't make it any easier because you don't want to come at it from like a, you know, I'm better than you, but you are also doing the work. I mean, I can't say honestly that like during my separation and divorce that I was like doing any kind of work on myself. You know, I was like in a state of like clinical burnout like from the last four years. And I could say that like I have just now started to come out of that. It makes me happy. Yeah. Did you think about not being here? Like was there like dark, dark thoughts at times?

No, because of my daughter. Right. I never was like, no, I don't want to be here anymore. but I remember being in moments of like pure joy and not being able to access joy. Like looking at, you know, I talk about it in my book, like watching, walking around in London, like knocking on trees to see which tree Winnie the Pooh lived in, right? And that being like this beautiful memory and being in it and not feeling. anything and being like this is really bad.

Like the fact that I'm not feeling anything right now is like awful, you know? And you just get these like, I'm so grateful for those glimpses of like real honesty with myself because those have like, even though they've really shaken up my life at multiple times. They are, they're like wake up calls, you know. So I never, I never like hear that and go, like, don't listen to that. It's always like, ever since getting sober, it's like, if you get a moment like that, that's a gift. If you get a moment like that where you hear your own voice going, like, this is a problem. This has got to change. And nobody's going to do it except for you. Then you got to, you got to follow that. You know, it's like, you're, you're really. You're,

That goes back to my point one, first of all, you're not alone. Like in the accessing joy thing, two years ago, I had to go do like a brush up five and a half day down at this program in Tennessee called OnSight because I, the way I explained it to people around me is like that feeling that I had as a kid on Christmas morning. Like I hadn't even felt like 10% of that in so long. And there's all this incredible shit happening around me, right? and like... Yeah. Yeah. I remember crying on my kitchen floor

about the pressure that I felt. Like, about, you know... I was like, I'm going to be... I'm going to end up in a hospital. Like, I feel like my body is going to break in half. And I remember my husband's telling me like, like, but your dreams are coming true. You know, and at the time, I felt that that was like, oh, yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right.

This is like, I got to, this will be fine, you know, this is good. All of this is good stuff that's happening. But it didn't make that feeling go away, you know. I was like, I need help. And mentally, I really needed help. And then I finally, like, I remember calling a psychiatrist about nine months, postpartum and being like, I don't know if this is just my life or if this is postpartum depression, I can't tell.

But I feel nothing. And I am exhausted all the time. And I don't feel joy doing the things that I used to do. I show up at my job. I don't feel joy. I do, I go on tour, I don't feel joy. I get on stage. I could be killing.

I don't feel it at all. And then she was like, okay, well, why don't you just call me in three months. If this is still happening in three to six months, just call me. And then I called her and like it was about a month after that that I started kind of waking up to like what the reality of my life was and what I needed to change. You know, which is like I need to consciously make a decision to stop doing things I didn't want to do and start doing things that only do the things that like made me feel energized that made me feel good. How does money work into that? Like doing things you don't want to do, but there's a paycheck behind it? Learning to say no.

Yeah, you don't say no. I mean, you don't say yes to that. And it's not the first time. Like, every comic should have a check offered to them that they say no to at some point in their career. Every comic should have like a moment where they're like, here you go. You can host a game show. All right? You can have this much money, but you're hosting a game.

show and like if you're if you're fucking psyched to host a game show great take that money but if you're like you know if the idea of hosting a game show begins this debate in your head of like I don't know what if it's like you don't want to do that like that's your brain going I don't want to do this so like say no to the money yeah that's a valuable lesson Especially for a guy like me because I live in this world where, and I don't know how much you know about me, but I run this company release recovery and we have 150 some odd employees and we're helping a lot of people get sober and we have this beautiful nonprofit where we like help the underserved population go get treatment and all this beautiful shit. And then I have this other life where I went on this reality television show, The Bachelor, and like these brands will come. And I'm like, oh, that's kind of like decent money. Yeah.

But then like the thing right here will go. and I've done the thing where like, I'm just going to take the check. But that's also not fair to the brand. Like it's not fair to who at like the game show people like. Right. No, fuck that. Like you're like and that's what sobriety's taught me.

Yeah. If I'm going to take money just to take money, I'm not going to represent whatever I'm going to do well, then it's a no. It's just got to be a no. No, yeah. It's like it's the, it's the not telling your girlfriend that something that you don't feel connected to them.

So you find somebody else to fuck. It's like that's the same thing. It just you are not saving anyone. You are actually making things worse for yourself and the other person. But the thread we're on, I feel like, is very interesting. And I hope two things for you, Rose, but I hope one, you can acknowledge that you just wrote a book and you spent a lot of time in this interview telling me about how you were programmed to say nothing about pretty much anything and not have emotions your entire life. And here you are, like putting it all out there. You should be proud of that.

I am, yeah. No, I am. What's your mission with, like, are you trying to break the family cycle of? I just want to live a cool life. Well, you do. You know? I just want to enjoy my life. Like, I don't have this, like, larger goal to, like, I mean, it feels good to not be bound to some belief that I actually don't have,

that somebody tried to give to me. Has your family pushed back on you being so vocal about any of this or writing the book? They know they can't say shit that I'm not going to listen. Like I respect where they're coming from, you know. I have, when I was writing this book, I did keep in mind that like, they didn't ask to be part of like public conversation, you know. And so when, you know, when you bring up my mom or you bring up my dad, like, I try to, I try to answer those questions honestly without really saying too much about them because

they didn't ask to be. But also, I have to tell an honest story. So there's parts of this book that, like, if I was a parent reading it and my kid was writing it, yeah, it'd be hard. It would be hard to read. Well, look. But I also go, I would be proud of my kid for, like, being honest and not being afraid to say what it is.

I'm smiling because you put this Instagram post up and maybe we'll pull it up or show people. But it was basically like you're like, I've had some people reach out to me about this book and some things I've said. And then like you swifed. It was like, gotcha. Like I'm headlining this show on September 18th here in New York City, which we'll get everyone the information on. Yeah. But I was laughing because like the people that want to read your book. and like actually believe that that's not their story too are the fucking problem because

and like even for your mom and dad like at some point you as human beings we have to acknowledge that we're not perfect and like we're just doing the best we can yeah and so if my daughter wants to write about me or someone wants to say something about me like by the way sometimes some of that shit might be true and I could maybe learn something from it yeah I mean but it's also like it's just like these basic boundaries of like respecting the fact that they didn't choose to write a book. I get, I get. You know what I mean? So I go, all right, I'm going to be as honest with my story as possible.

And also I'm going to make sure that I write about these things without judgment of like, this is, you know, they were this way. And how bad is, that's so bad. You know, like, I tried to explain that like my father was this way because of these things that happened to him. My mother was this way because of these things. And like to write about this. them with some compassion. And I felt like I was in a position to do that having just become a parent myself.

Yeah. You know, I was like, all right. Well, this is like, think about what you would be willing to read about yourself if your kid wrote a book. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm just, I'm thinking about, so I don't know, have you seen The Bachelor or The Bachelor or The Bachelorette? Yeah, yeah.

So you know that they bring the families. Like, I was there later in the game, so they brought my family in. Right. And the whole thing is like, I think most families are super pumped. Like, this is fucking cool. I get to go to a Hollywood set and be on TV and be on this show and all my, you know, like everyone wants their two seconds of whatever. And so I'm not really thinking about that piece of it.

Like I'm just throwing my family into this very public eye. And my brother was kind of like in a 30 minute conversation with the girl, they chose the three minutes or two minutes where he's like, drilling her. And coming out of that episode, everyone's like, oh, he's giving state trooper vibes. And, like, you know, he kind of got like a little bit crushed. My brother's a sweetheart.

Yeah. And he's just like, what was that? I was like, welcome to showbiz, dude. They can make you whoever they want to make you. Absolutely. Like reality TV is, that is like a different beast. That's a different world.

I'm on the, I mean, I think it's kind of what we're saying is like I know. I think in order to do something that like that you know, what you're signing up for. Yeah, you have to. Just like being a comic. Like you know what you're like, yeah, there's going to be some people that come after the show and say some inappropriate shit that it's actually probably mean. And you're going to have to kind of like get past that.

Yeah, you're going to have to be like, yeah, I guess so. You know, I mean, I, like, it's the same thing with divorce. You go like, he's going to have his narrative of what happened. And like, I can't judge how, I can't judge the healing that's going on in my life based on what he thinks happened. I can't base how well I'm doing in my life based on what's happening in his anymore. We are no longer together, you know, and it's like tearing yourself apart from that, from like what other people's opinions are of you and just focusing on like what you think.

It's fucking hard. Like I'll be up late at night being like just going. and then I'll like literally turn and scream into my pillow and then just fall asleep. And it's like psychotic, you know? Like, but you need to do it. You got to get it out of your body. Because otherwise you wake up the next morning. You're saying things that people don't, you're saying things that people do but don't say.

Yeah. Like that's not, none of this is, for me, it's like surprising or. And I think relationships are funny because whenever there's like a breakup, right, like, which side do the friends take? which side do this. And it's like, everyone's just going to kind of continue thinking about themselves and it's going to fall where it falls.

Exactly. Exactly. I'm not here to, I'm sure he's a fine guy. I can, you know, like it just didn't, too good people don't always make a good relationship.

And like, whatever the reason was, like it's just not working. Yeah, we just were not good partners for each other. Like, we just grew into different people. So you,

so I'm going to, we got down a rabbit hole there and I, I appreciate your vulnerability. The sobriety piece. A couple questions there. You grow, like when do you, so you lose your sister Graham at 17, between seven, you get sober at 22. Like what is the Cliff Notes version of what that five years looks like?

Like, let's. Yeah. So I was, I was drinking, you know. I, uh, it basically all culminated into after like a short period of trying to control my drinking because of like what I knew about alcoholism. I essentially was like suffering with like an eating disorder and then the drinking sort of added to that because it made me feel normal and I was like starved. So I was just like I'm so hungry that I feel like my body's running on like fake adrenaline. Yeah.

And then I would drink to feel normal. And then that sort of culminated ultimately in like my family being concerned enough that they were like, um, all right, so you're going to go on this trip after graduation with your sister. She's going to be there. You'll be safe. I was on this trip and I lost it. Like my sister was like, I can't even be around you. She was like, I'm out.

And I was like, all right, well, I'm staying because I'm going to be fine. You know, and it was that like, I didn't even know what I wanted to do there. This was not my trip. She had planned the whole thing. I didn't know where I was going to go. I just like, I just was out in Europe, you know, until I was like running out of money. And then I called and they were like, we're not sending you money. And I was like, fine, I'll book a trip back to New York.

Or I'll book a trip back to D.C. and I'll go to rehab. And they were like, all right, I was like, just send me enough money that I can like book the trip. And they were like, okay. So they send me this money. I book a flight that goes from fucking Europe to and I don't know where I was in Europe I don't know where I left from

but it stopped in New York and then it went to D.C. And I've had all my stuff in my backpack because I was like backpacking through Europe which is like what you did after college, right? So I stopped down at JFK and I got in a cab and I went to this guy's house who I'd been dating

and I was like, hey I'm moving in. Congrats! Like, congrats to you, you know, like, I'm moving into your house and my parents were fucking infuriated. And he, like this poor man, he just like tried as hard as he could to like take care of someone who was genuinely like an alcoholic who was like an untreated alcoholic. And truly a tornado through his life, like the way that I. affected his life. I still feel an incredible amount of guilt. You know where he's at today?

Do you like... Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I mean, I talked to him to talk about this book. Like, I was like, I need some things filled in. I didn't get to that part yet, but...

And he, uh, yeah, he filled, he filled me in, but like, he filled me in was like versions of it that, like, I, I remembered slightly, but like, there was a lot that, like, there was a lot that I'm, you know, in that one chapter where it's like I'm living in Greenpoint and I'm, I just moved to New York and I was drinking and I was like telling my family that I was like going to group therapy. And I was, but it wasn't for, I was in a group therapy for like an eating disorder and I wasn't telling them that I was drinking every night and it was like blackout drinking every night. And that was where things started to get like really tough to like piece together. So I, I I do the best that I can, you know, but like there's like things in there where I'm like,

I think this was true, you know, like I, it's, you know, when you try to tell your own story and you're like, I mean, there's years of, of, of. Yeah. You just like that fill in the fucking blank. Not there. You know? And like I, I like, I'll be like, I'm autistic or I don't believe, like I don't matter. Like I don't pay.

But I think it was just I was so fucked up. I was so fucked. I thought I was bipolar. Yeah. I hoped I was bipolar. I remember being like, if I'm bipolar, then this is like some sort of like, I'm a brilliant fucking artist.

You know? And that's like that's what this is. I'm just fucking too brilliant for like the, to like for anybody to understand. I really wanted to be like a tortured, unique fucking artist. And it was like I was a fucking alcoholic. And I was and that's what I was.

But there's that, that's like the hardest alcoholic to get through you. How do you get sober? I literally just had this day. day where I like I remember I was no rehab I had broken up no I had broken up with this guy you know because he was a problem brutal way like yeah you know he would like he was truly like my fucking nurse and then one day he brings up that he wants me to quit and I left the house and got a new apartment and then came back and was like I'm moving out and like the next thing I

know I'm I like enrolled in an acting class at William Sper Studio and my first acting class I was like looking for the other alcoholic I was like who wants to fucking go drink after this and it was like one guy who is sober now um we went out I don't know where he went at some point we lost each other in the night but like I ran into this girl across the street from the cellar and I was like hey um I'm drinking, come, come drink with me. And she was like, no, I'm sober. And I was like, why? And she was like, oh, like, I'm an alcoholic.

And then she offered me her number because I knew what, I knew about A.A. And I knew about recovery. From your mom. From my mom. I took her number because I was like, I don't want to look like I'm in denial. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I definitely will call you, you know. And then I like went out for the rest of the night.

I don't remember how I got home. I woke up late on my floor. And I called the job that I had been training for for like three weeks. I had trained for a job at a vegan restaurant, which is like notoriously bad service. Like nobody gives a shit at vegan places. And I had, I was like a hostess at this restaurant with maybe like six tables. And I could not remember if the tables counted one, two, three up this side and four, five, six down this side. Or if it was like one, two, three and like four or five six.

I could not. I had like wet brain. and I could not fucking do this and they spent three weeks training me how to count to six how to count to six and I was like I still couldn't get it I'm like late and then I called

I was like so sorry and they were like look this is like not working like sorry this is not gonna work and I remember hanging up the phone and trying to cry like trying to be like you know but like I was alone so I'm like performing

for no one And I remember like catching a glimpse of myself in the mirror and being like, what the fuck are you even doing? Like there was just this moment of like, who are you crying for? There's, you're not getting pulled over, bitch. Like, put your like white woman shit away for a second. You know what I mean? Because I knew that I was doing it. I just, this part of me just like woke up.

It was like, you're full of shit. Yeah. And I just knew it. And then I remembered that I'd run running. that girl. No. And I called that girl. No, you didn't.

Yeah. I called her the next morning. And I was like, hey, I think I'm an alcoholic. And I wanted to like grab the fucking words out of the air, you know, and just like, top them back in because I was like, but she told me she'd meet me at a meeting. And I walked around the city. When I tell you, I left my apartment at like one or two p.m. And I walked around New York, around the West Village, until like seven.

I just walked till seven. Until the meeting. Yeah. And it was like, and like waited outside of this meeting. And just that was it. Like I was like, I just had this moment. She showed up? She showed up.

That's the thing about recovery. And I'm a nerd for recovery in AA. And part of my anonymity was taken for me many years ago. so I just talk about it, whatever, it's where I've landed with it all. But the way that we show up for each other for nothing. Yeah. For absolutely nothing. She gives you her number and that's really what recovery is.

And she says she's going to be there and she's there and you're there with zero days. And she probably like ushers you into this like, forget the meeting, ushers this into this like new life that you didn't know is available. Not to mention like she's a mess. Like for all I know. Like I remember her as having all of her shit together But like she could have been a fucking disaster So when you first go to me Like the guy up there

It was like the perfect person like the speaker Yeah Is that like the president? Yeah Yeah Really they're just as fucked up as anyone else Like that's like yeah That's the great thing about recovery

Is the blindly and the blind but it works I know and it like It gave me My It gave me my life I mean I look at like I look at my stand up and I'm like, this is so, this is for like sober people.

You know, like this is for people that find this shit funny. But the shit that we find funny in meetings is not what the regular, you know what I mean? And so I kind of seek to like do that in my stand-up is just to be like, this is the truth. You know, this is, it's dark, but it's funny to me. I was at a, uh, some fun rate. I'm coming off on 15 years. This must have been like 14 years where I just moved to New York City. And John Mullaney was like a nobody and comes into this thing and does a bit about he hadn't gotten.

I think he's sober now today. But he hadn't kind of done the whole rehab and turned his life around thing. And he just like, I think it had periods of sobriety, but was in a, like, whatever it was. He just made it so relatable and so fucking funny. And like gave me actually hope. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what you hope for.

You want people to feel a sense of hope. And that's just not that serious. No, it's not. That's the other thing. Like, we're not that. I remember somebody being like, you're not that fucking unique. And that felt like such a relief to me. Like, that didn't feel like an insult, you know?

When I knew that I was in a good place because it didn't feel like an insult, because there was a time where I was like, I'm so unique, you know. My little problems are so, you know. Yeah. But it's like they say like, are your problems or is, you know, whatever. Yeah. Your problems are your problems. Like, sure, they are.

But like, I just got shot walking down the street is different than like, you know, they cooked my burger. Well done. Right. That's going to be different. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.

Exactly. So, you know, I, but I remember hearing that and being like, oh, yeah, none of us really are. If there's an experience that I'm having as a human being. someone else has had it. If there's a feeling I'm having, someone else has had it. So like we walk around with this sense of like, no one's going to understand.

And it's like, no, people will. People will understand. So you'll have 20 years. What's your anniversary? My anniversary is September. It's either the 19th or the 21st. So you're coming up on 20 years? Yeah.

It's either the 19th or 21st. I can't, because my brain was like so fried, I could not do that. I couldn't count backwards to, like, a lot of, like, problems with counting. Your permission is to pick one. I just do 20 first. I just do the 21st.

Yeah. Are you, maybe this is like the season of change for you, all this shit that's happened over the last couple years, entering into this kind of new decade of recovery. I mean, 20 years is no joke. I mean, it's so cool. Are you, how are you staying sober today?

Are you just hanging on by a thread? I mean, it gets harder, obviously. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm hanging on. I'm like, I'm trying to. Do you have community? Like, you have sober women in your life? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I have meetings.

I have sober women in my life. Yeah. Sober people in my life, just sober friends that I've had for, you know, decades now. And I try to just like, it's the same thing over and over. It's like it's the same thing that it was in the first week. It's like you take things one day at a time. You try to be grateful for all the stuff that you, all the things that you have and the people that you have in your life. And I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunities that I've had that I had a chance to write a book, you know, that I thought I would be 60 when I was writing a book.

I thought I'd be like in a cabin in like Woodstock, you know? But like... I have to do it and I just... That's what I tell myself. I'm gonna like, go rent a thing on the side of the mountain and write it in 30 days. No, it's like... Just like, write an hour a day, dude.

Yeah, right an hour a day. I remember writing half of this book. Like, the laptop was like on the corner of a bidet and I was on the toilet. Like I was in Europe, which is cool. But I was like on a toilet, reaching across writing the shit, using a bidet as my desk.

So like, it's not glimilar. And most of writing is avoiding writing. So that's what I think we circulated today. It's like there's so many things in life that we, even for me, just I'll speak about it for myself that we think are supposed to be a certain way or happen a certain way. And then no one talks about it. So we just like, we're just committed to that story. And then I think sober people come in and we're like, we're just going to kind of blow it off

that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Because like we have to tell the truth. And it's kind of important for us. Exactly. I'm trying to tell myself that, too, just in my everyday life. Like, as I come up on 20 years, like, I thought that my life was going to look a certain way, right?

Especially, even as recently as, like, five years ago. I thought that this was going to look different. And it doesn't look like that. No. And, but, like, in a way, it's kind of cool that, like, life continues to, like, surprise you. You know? Yeah. I thought I was destined. Yes, I do know because I thought I was married at a younger age when I was still active. And I thought I was destined for wasp. Like that waspy, you know, suburban married, four kids, house, dog, two cars in the driveway. And I'm going to recreate this life for my children. And part of what you're doing is is blazing this trail. So that minnow and, you know, whatever else. If you have more children, like you're going to recreate something for them and give them.

the ability to be curious about what their life can actually look like because a lot of what I got out of your childhood and my childhood is just like we are forced a narrative that isn't always good for us or right for us but we don't have permission to think otherwise right yeah which is fucking scary yeah um well I want people to read the book I feel like I could have talked to you for seven hours same you know it's just like yeah very easy and uh it got a little serious there which I appreciate. I know. It's like you bring on a comic and it's like,

oh, Jesus Christ, you're so fucking dark. You've done the fucking thing with the other comic, right? I have to tell you, it's so nice for me to like come on a podcast and just talk. I am so, it's like the pressure to like always be on.

I fucking hate it. So like, especially at this phase of my life. I'm like, I just want to show up. Yeah, you've done that interview. And like you've made the people laugh.

And like, look, I think people that actually appreciate you aren't actually fans of you will like, we'll enjoy this part of the story. And then like hopefully it'll inspire them, you know,

to buy the damn book. Yeah. What else you got going on? Just real quick in terms of. So I have an hour special on Netflix called The Motherload. And I'm going to be headlining grammar C theater, September 18th. Is it September 18th?

I think it's in that post. Yeah. September 18th. Anyway, tickets are available on my website. Wait, I need before we go, because this was fucking awesome.

I need this story. So the tour is called what? The tour is called the paperbag princess tour. Yeah, so tell me the book. The premise of the book is like you read it to your... Yeah. So the paperbag princess is this girl and she's a princess and her name's Elizabeth and she has a boyfriend named Ronald and he's a prince. And one day a dragon comes and burns up her castle, burns off all her clothes and carries off Prince Ronald, right?

And the only thing left around is a paper bag, which is, I mean, impossible. But we go past that, right? So she puts on this paper bag and she's like, I'm going to go find Ronald. She goes to save Ronald. She gets to the castle. She tricks the dragon into, like, flying around the world, like showing her all of his tricks, right? Because she's like, I just hear that you're like this amazing dragon. And the dragon's like, actually I am like pretty fucking great.

And she tires the dragon out. He falls asleep. she goes in the castle and Prince Ronald is like Elizabeth you look like shit you're wearing a paper bag go get a nice dress and come back you know and she's like Ronald you look like a real prince your hair is very nice your clothes are very nice but you're a bum and then it's like and they didn't get married after all that's like that's the whole book yeah I love that and um yeah I got it for my I got it for my kid. Shortly after her dad and I separated.

And she calls you a bum. And now she calls me a bum. She calls you a bum. But she loves the book. And you named your tour after it. I love it. The thing I love about your rosebud is obviously you call your memoir here a messy memoir, but there's this whole movement happening right now

where a lot of sober people are out there kind of like flaunting their sobriety and making it look really cool. Do you have thoughts on that or are you? You know, I, I, I'm all for people like being open about their sobriety. I don't, there's no, I think that's great, you know, ultimately for people. I don't really, I don't see it. Like, I don't see them like making it look a certain way.

But like, I know that there is that. To me, it just never actually looks cool. Like, like, even when it, like, looks cool, it, like, doesn't to me. Like, I remember when I got sober, there were, like, those guys that were, like, those guys that were in the rooms and they'd be like, yeah, you know, like, and I used to do, like, impressions of them with, like, my girlfriends and be like, yo, like, this is my fellow. Like, I fucking cry on this, on this dude's shoulder.

Like, we're fellows. And it was just like, to me, it was, like, always kind of like, all right, man, you know? Like, and it's good. I'm glad that these people are sober and that there is, that there's something about it that feels cool to them. If that's what keeps you sober, fucking, I'm all for it. Right. You know, great.

I don't, my only concern is like, is that a lasting, does that have a lasting impact? I get, I get nervous for some of these people who are newly sober making it their entire identity. Yeah, because you run into a wall with that pretty quickly. Yeah. You know? And I did it. I was that guy. I mean, my first email address, I joke was Zach Recovery 21 at gmail.com.

My sponsor was like, let's just pump the brakes on the. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I got a little bit that way too. rude thing at 67 days sober. I got that way too. I mean, and it got me into a lot of trouble. I got into, I was a full-time fucking caretaker for some people. Last question.

Just my mantra is keep going. Why do you, why do you keep going? I keep going because life keeps surprising me. And I'm, I want to know what, what's going to happen next, you know? I think maybe it's like the writer part of my brain, but I'm like, what? What? Yeah. What's behind this curtain, you know? We're in like the seventh chapter. We've got to finish the book. Yeah.

Well, thank you for coming on, Rosebud. We're going to pump it out, promote you, a fan of you, fan of your work, and your story is going to help a lot of people. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.