The Zac Clark Show - D1 Track Star Shares Battle with Anxiety and Young Athletes' Mental Health Struggles | Olivia Arizin

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

With the Olympics around the corner, we sat down with a former Division 1 track & field collegiate athlete who once believed that nothing mattered more than making it to the Olympic stage. Olivia Arizin was a star from the beginning. As a sophomore in high school, she ran the 5th best time in the nation in the 800 meter race. She was a 2-time state champion in Pennsylvania and earned All-Big East honors at Georgetown, culminating with winning the Big East Indoor Track & Field Championships. However, behind the accolades and success, Olivia battled severe anxiety centered around her athletic performance. Since the 6th grade, Olivia would regularly throw up before track meets due to anxiety and the pressure to win. It wasn't until she reached college that she realized this wasn't normal and sought help.  Olivia is not alone. Young athletes, particularly in college, endure immense stress and pressure to maintain their athletic success.  In this episode, we discuss: The abnormal level of stress and pressure high-achieving youth athletes face. Is it healthy? Sustainable? The lack of resources and support to address and treat mental health issues across collegiate athletics. What should the role of coaches, teams, and universities be in helping college athletes navigate the stressors of athletic competition? Olivia’s experience transitioning from “athlete” to “civilian” at this critical jumping off point into early adulthood.  Should universities and their athletic teams do more to help young athletes transition away from the sport that has defined their young lives? The significant mental health challenges tied to athletic performance among youth are not just an issue for the struggling athlete but also for a system that has become a commercialized business exploiting young athletes' talents.  Olivia’s journey to reclaiming her identity beyond being an athlete is a powerful reminder that youth sports are meant for children who, first and foremost, simply love to play a game. Links:  Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right, so welcome back to the Zach Clark Show. I am very, very happy to have my friend Olivia Ayersen with us today who reach out to me, Olivia, because you, why? I mean, tell people why you reach out to me to come on today. Oh, I saw you started your podcast, and I've always been very passionate about student-athlete mental health. So I just wanted to tell my story. So you're comfortable to sharing your story, which is first and foremost, kudos to you. And for reaching out, I mean, that's super cool.

Olivia and I met classic Jersey store, Jersey Shore. I ran the 10-mile in Seattle, which I do with my family every year. And you and your friend Aaron were kind of like sitting at this bar afterwards. We were all hanging out. And so we got to talk. And then we'd be like, you know, Instagram friends or Philly Sports or whatever. So a lot of commonality here. Do you guys summer at the Jersey Shore?

Is that? We do. I'm there every weekend. And big family? Five people in my family. Five in your family. All athletes. Yep.

And I think for me, I've been fascinated by the intersection between mental health and high school athletics, college athletics, even youth athletics. I mean, I know for me, like, growing up, I will say now what I'm hearing, some of my friends have kids and they're like not keeping score and they're taking away the whole competitive element of sports, which I feel like is diluting some of the stuff that athletics taught me about winning and losing and how to learn from mistakes and all that stuff. But on the flip side, you know,

we were talking about your story before this and it sounds like you... When did you start running? When do you know that you were an athlete? Like, let's start there. So I started running in first grade. Okay. Little Olivia.

And I was during cross country and outdoor track. I would like experiment with other... In first grade? Yeah. Or maybe not outdoor track in first grade. I don't think that started in fourth grade, but definitely you can do cross-country, like, starting as a kindergartner. And so I started doing that.

I would experiment with, like, lacrosse, basketball, other sports. And it wasn't until, like, sixth grade, I realized that it was really good at the 800. Good, like fast. Yeah. Like winning everything. And, you know, then I got to high school, and it just started taking a whole new level. Where do you fall in the... So you have two brothers or is it?

Yes, I'm the oldest, I'm the oldest. Oh, you're the oldest. Okay, so you're out in front, you're running, you're realizing you're fast, your parents are athletes or no? My dad was an athlete, my mom was a horseback rider. Okay, so it's all over the place. Yep. parts of the sport but I from a young age had like bad anxiety before races so I

would enjoy like the after fact like being on the high from winning at a young age I was like addicted to chasing that yeah but before each race you know I feel like sick to my stomach a lot of athletes do but I just didn't it progressively got worse as the you know through high school when there was more pressure yeah and you grew up just just to jump around a little bit, just so everyone is clear in PA, go birds, Phillies. Go birds. Okay.

And you're in sixth grade, you realize you're good, the 800, and then what, how did your career kind of like take off from there? So then I went to Cardinal Harrah, which we were a really good running school. Private? Yeah. Okay. And after that, you know, I was qualifying for the state champion. at a young age, like making the finals, and people just were following my career.

So it made me the pressure just spilled, but I did, it's hard because I did love it at some points, but then I just, like, again, before the anxiety for me was, like, just a different level, like, people get nervous, but mine was just, like, would affect me in school, would start, like, a few days before, and, you know, I'm not at the Olympics, like, it shouldn't be affecting me that much. at such a young age. So I'm very curious. Because I think the thing about track and feet, right,

so for me, I played football, basketball, baseball. You don't walk, I mean, unless you're elite. But for me, walking into high school as a freshman, I'm not going and playing varsity sports right away. Yeah. As a runner, I would assume that that's a possibility. Are you as a freshman running for the varsity? Yes. Yes.

So as a freshman running for varsity, making the states and then I think it was sophomore year that was the first time that I won states so that was when like the pressure

state champion yeah as a sophomore okay and so you're a freshman high school you show up what's the first time

so you were getting sick before yeah that started for me in sixth grade like oh shit yeah just from a young age like would like in school

notice myself being like oh my god I've attracted me days like I literally can't function on this test and then it would be like the morning of and I would get sick every single time right yeah yeah I mean I'm a dinosaur so I was in high school 20 something years ago for you this is not like the mental health conversation at this point it has started a little bit right so as a sixth grader do you think to yourself maybe this isn't normal or maybe I should ask for help or do you tell your mom and dad I'm very curious about

I think I, you know, with being an athlete, you're supposed to be, like, strong and push through. I always, like, deep down was like, this is not normal, but I was like, I have to, like, push through and win. And that mentality started for me at, like, a very young age. And that pressure was coming from yourself or from the outside? From myself, I think, you know, my parents were always very supportive of me. I think a lot of it was myself. Okay. And wanting to, like, be the best and being a perfectionist, honestly.

It's very interesting. So, I would assume in sixth grade, like, as a girl, right, you're, like, starting to do your nails. But, like, you're just full on. I was just full on, like, from a young age, very intense. And a lot of it was me putting pressure on myself. And were you, like, in terms of, did you have friends? Yeah, no, I had friends. But I always would, like, my friends at track meets, I would get jealous of them

because I'm like, why aren't they nervous like me? Right. Like, comparing myself, like, did they just serve up for it? And, like, I didn't know, you know, stuff like that. Do you remember the first time it happens where you get sick before? Yeah, in sixth grade. Take me through that. At the Arch Diocesan Championship, I was supposed to wait.

win and I, you know, was like hiding in the corner throwing up and I was like, I don't want to do it. But then I had coaches and people were like, no, no, you're doing it and you're fine. And then I won and then didn't think anything of that not being normal. So from that moment on, it's like the winning almost validated this. Yeah, like it was a weird connection. Like if I throw up, then I'll win almost or like something, a weird connection. And are your coaches in middle school I'm very curious about this because I feel I feel like youth coaches and middle school coaches have this ability to really lay a positive framework or foundation for high school college pro athletes but a lot of them probably aren't qualified so do they ever bring up I had the best

coach in grade school Mr. Dolan Aaron's dad actually okay and he always was like talking me off the ledge he's like you're fine like I think it made him upset that like a little girl was so, like, consumed by just a track race where it's supposed to be fun at that age. Like, I think you go through phases of sports where, like, that's the stage that's supposed to be the most fun, and then it gets more intense as you go through. But there always should be a level of that fun, but, like, my anxiety just suck the fun out from a young age. And we'll move on high school, but in middle school, do you, does mental health, like,

do you know what that is at that point? No, no idea, right? No idea. You're just, when at all costs. Yeah. And so you show up your freshman year. Are you recruited to go? I think, I don't know if they can do that.

Okay. But I just knew I wanted to go there because it was like the best track school in the area. In like Philly. Yeah, like Delcoe. Yeah. Shout out Delcoe. So you show up a Cardinal Doherty? O'Hara.

Oh, Carter O'Hara. Oh, Card O'Hara. You show up there and you're immediately one of the best runners in the school. Mm-hmm. it's a spring sport right well it would be cross-country indoor outdoor so it went from just it went from grade school being able to you know play other sports and my whole life wasn't tracked to like then it became real it was like wow you're good you can go to college for this and like you have cross-country indoor outdoor three seasons and is your coach prime like is it the high

school coach that is your main running coach or do you have an outside coach as well um for the first year I had my high school coach was my main running coach and then we had a lot of coaching changes so then Mr. Dolan Aaron's dad became like after school I would go to two practices I would go to my high school and then practice with him and a group of guys I mean that that in itself is insane yeah right like you're you're a freshman a sophomore in high school and you're having two practice like it's not necessary yeah no I know oh my gosh um okay and then so at what point do you you start to realize that this is maybe like an issue because I'm with you, right? Like I've played a lot of sports in my life and there's always the guy or the girl that I see

that just doesn't seem to be bothered by any of it. Right. And I'm so jealous because I am a mental midget. Like, you know, as a pitcher, I would start walking people all over the place. And so like the mental health thing was very true in my other. athletic career and I'm just curious for you when do you start to realize that like hey maybe I'm not like these other other people and then when you kind of put your hand up and say maybe you need some help um I think honestly all of high school I suffered through it I never

I was just doing so well it was like oh Olivia's just friend the number five time in the country as a sophomore or whatever and I would that true yeah but I would have like a big smile on my face after because I was relieved it was done honestly and then I just wouldn't deal with it before the you know what would just happen before that would affect me like days before the vomiting every single time it was especially worse at like state championships and the higher um more elite competitions but like I would win so then it wouldn't really become a conversation so it's almost like the higher the stakes the sicker you got yeah so so when you run this where was it I'm I'm gonna hone in on this so that when you were

fifth in the country where was that meet at in hers she or no shippensberg the state championship for so not far from home no and when does the feelings start because i feel like we can sit here and have a very kind of like surface level conversation about getting sick before a race but i'm very curious for a young woman like you who's operating at the absolute highest level of track and field you're in ship's ber and we're like is it the night before is it the day like you take me through the actual from the second you start feeling that way until crossing the finish line i think it would start like a few days before i would just feel i was like oh god this is coming up tried to be in the moment like i had at that point i had like right online it's like be where your two feet are before a race so i would come

constantly like repeat that to myself and then I think the night before the race could barely eat just felt sick like everyone would be like laughing having fun not thinking about it until like you know the warm up but it started for me the night before would not sleep at all and then probably at like 6 a.m the next morning wake up and get sick the first time and it depended like I would I would barely be able to eat anything because I felt so sick so then it's like how is my body moving at like this crazy fast pace like when I'm like you know not fueling my body and but this is nothing to do with disordered eating or no I I mean every day in high school I had a hoagie like I had no problems doing that yeah and I also loved beef jerky I would have that every day

too um because I was trying to gain weight so I didn't have an eating disorder luckily but like it was more like just feeling so anxious that I couldn't neat. So 6 a.m. you get sick. Say the race is at 11 to when does track usually go off. Probably the 800 was always at like 2 p.m. Okay. So from 6 to 2, are you, like, where are your coaches?

Where are your teammates? Where are the people that are supposed to be used? I would honestly isolate myself. Okay. Yeah. And no one would say. No, they just, they were like, this is the way Liv is. Like, leave her alone.

She gets nervous. because you were operating in such a high level. Yeah. Like she's fine, she's going to run fast. She's fine, she's going to run fast, leave her alone. She doesn't want to talk to anyone. It's so interesting. And so what was, in terms of getting sick, like, okay, if you're going off at 2 o'clock,

is there like 1.30, you're, like, hiding out somewhere? Yeah, I think, I'm trying to remember. I would, you know, call my mom always, like, crying and being like, I don't want to do it. and she's like you don't have like you don't have to but like you're obviously I was going to do it because I wouldn't want to give up and have that like athlete mentality but it was just such a buildup like not normal compared to other athletes who are like so excited to like get on the line and like do this and for me it was something I just like dreaded did anyone know this was going on again I think it was just like she's nervous yeah like she's nervous like she

is one on the team that gets extra nervous because she is higher pressure. Yeah, but that's crazy to me. Yeah. That's crazy to me that we live in a world where the stock response to someone who's an elite athlete is she's just nervous and she's fine and she's going to go out and run her race.

That we're not pulling back another light of that and saying what's really going on here? Yeah, no, no one ever did that for me. And so do you ever engage? age in therapy or yeah i mean so when i when i got to college um luckily georgetown had a sports psychologist on on staff and my coach at the time julie collie do you know her okay she was like live you should really go and talk to someone and i was like no like i'm fine because i always had this like i'm like too taught like i just always had that mentality and then i finally went

to talk to someone they're like oh honey like it's not normal like that's not good was a relief yeah i was like wow like i've finally confronted like that that's not normal and i could talk about it and it there was relief for sure so just i want to dial back so before you get to georgetown so freshman year sophomore year you're running at a high level when did the offers start coming in how do you decide to go to georgetown because i think that's another thing that doesn't really get talked about right is you have, you're basically this commodity, and there's 10 or 15 or 20 schools, I assume, coming after you

and trying to get you to commit to come run with them. I mean, was there additional stress around that? Was there a relief when you finally picked Georgetown? What was that, the kind of recruitment process? I think the recruitment process started my junior year, but you can't commit anywhere until, I think the rules have changed, but like fall of senior year.

So I was looking at Georgetown, Villanova, Oregon, UNC, and Notre Dame. Oh, my God. I took visits to all of them. I loved all of them, honestly. Did you go to Oregon? I did go to Oregon. Yeah. It was insane.

Yeah. But I've really connected with my Georgetown coach. I was like, I knew this is the place I should be, an area and everything. I just had like that gut feeling. So I think when I committed there, there was a bit of relief. But then again, I was like, oh my God, I need to keep up to their standards. It was like they saw me run this way. I need to get better.

And it was a lot of pressure on myself. It wasn't. Like my coach wanted me to just keep doing what I was doing basically and do well. But, and she was very supportive. She knew, like, as soon as I got to college, I told her what I've been going on. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just curious.

So I'm curious and feel free to answer this however you want. But in high school, is there any drinking? Are you, like, experimenting at all? bring any relief or do you is it kind of like I have to be I was very very strict I didn't drink in high school at all okay um I think like the first time I drank was like well you know I take that back freshman year I was kind of bad okay that was before I was like a really good runner and then my the first time I drank after that was my senior week like when track was done celebrating so I think college that was like a new the freedom yeah

a new thing for me. Does the booze provide any relief to the anxiety? Does it help you, like, loosen up? I mean, I don't think I would use it for that. I just would do it as, like, social to have fun. I think relief from anxiety would be, like, me talking to the therapist about it. That probably means you're not an alcoholic. I mean, for me, when I drank, it was like, you know,

I was drinking to make this feeling in my soul go away. Yeah. But so good news for you. all right so you show up at georgetown you connect with your coach it sounds like you made a good decision but now here you are going from the best of the best in high school to showing up and now you're just one of how many on a team yeah i mean probably like 35 girls who are all state champions and all you know like i would do work as i'd be in the back of the pack and it was for me coming from that pressure I liked that I liked being in the back I was like oh my god like I can finally you know

there's no expectations like I obviously have to compete but I don't have to be like the star I did not like being that you didn't know but you did it because you felt like because I was good and I had like I don't want to waste talent pretty much I was like I'm talented like God gave me a gift so I might as well use it yeah yeah so wild man just because like As humans, I feel like we do so many things that don't actually make us happy. You know, like, yeah, you're good at it, but to what extent, right? You're getting sick before these races. Do you run all four years in college?

I did. Okay. So you show up and does anyone fresh, because I want to get into kind of like, do you feel supported at college? What's the issue with college sports? it's what would you change about the mental health landscape for collegiate athletes. I know for me, you know, we did this college tour a couple years ago where we went out to five or six colleges and we talked to all their students and their student athletes.

And, you know, I heard a couple things. One, that counseling centers are over, like, getting crushed. And so to your point, if you try to make an appointment, you might be waiting three or four weeks when three or four weeks in the life of a college student is forever. I feel like in college when you need help, you need it like then and there. Yeah. Yeah. So you go to Georgetown, your coach says, go talk to the psychologist.

Let's talk about that. So I go, luckily Georgetown had a full-time sports psychologist, but only 25 D1 schools have that right now. Okay. Which is kind of shocking. So I went to her, and it took a bit to, like, correct. the shell but then get to the root of like what is making me so anxious before these races like what self-beliefs do I have like I would honestly believe like if I wasn't winning like my family and people would like stop caring about me was that true no okay but I had these beliefs

in my head like people will look at me differently like I just defined myself so much by the way I performed not a healthy level yeah that I like genuinely believe these things It's unbelievable. I hate that you felt that way. You don't anymore, right? Yeah, it's sad. No, I don't anymore. Okay.

And freshman year, do they sit you all down and say, hey? I think that's, I remember that's when, like, mental health started to come up. Okay. Like, we would have all the student athletes would, I don't remember who came to speak to us, but, like, there was a panel of mental health,

and I was like, that's honestly what triggered for me that i like needed to go talk to someone about the anxiety yeah and so what is your mental health journey in college kind of take me take me through that i think so i when i got to college i was relieved i like the pressure being off of me and i honestly from freshman year to the middle of junior year i kind of just like stayed stagnant like I didn't have that drive to be the best anymore. I liked being comfortable because I I that anxiety level like I didn't want to feel like like could I have been the best probably but I didn't want to be getting sick like it was just such a like I don't know how to describe it but like the better I would get than the worst anxiety would be so I didn't want to be better and then it wasn't until like my junior year where I felt that drive again I was like oh. shit like I want to start winning again I don't know what switched to me but like then I started

doing well again and having that fire I would still have the anxiety but I was like I guess I'm running out of time in college to like compete like I need to you know yeah and do you're at this point do your teammates finally know kind of what's going on is there anyone else that you're talking to where there's some level of identification where you kind of feel safe because oh like this is happening for yeah I think I'll never forget I was at a meet at the University of Florida I was getting sick before

and this girl from a different team was also getting sick and like she came up and gave me a big hug and she's like I'm so happy it's not just me and that to me was like oh my God like I've been waiting for that because I didn't you know I haven't encountered someone that went through the same

sort of anxiety before it was always like a little bit of nerves like girls would joke like I'm so nervous right now but I was like no mine is just like a different level do you still do you know who that no I don't know who it was

because we raced a minute later and then I don't know but it like helped me in that moment yeah and I had like a great race because I was like wow I just felt like a weight lifted yeah you're not alone yeah you're not alone

and so what would you say for college athletes now you did tell me about this paper that you wrote and where the passion came in and how your college journey kind of concludes so the paper i wrote was about the transition out of college uh with mental health and like athletic identity and it was all about like what what do you do when you're done because it's not like a matter of if you're done it's when because only like two percent of people

go on to be professional athletes so how do you define yeah yourself after that um and i really enjoyed writing it because i got to interview a lot of my friends and a lot of people that you didn't think we're struggling they were the whole time but like weren't talking about it um but i finished off basically i won the big east my junior year that's when i kind of had that fire back in me and then covid sent us home so that was like the ending for me that was your career i mean i came back senior year only for outdoor but at that point i was checked out i had taken like a lot of time off okay yeah so when you say you won the big east you won the 800 meters at the big east championships is that and what is the feeling there are you proud or is it just like this is

the expectation so i was proud because i had i think like the anxiety journey the whole way i was like wow i really just overcame that to like i could have just settled in college and been like okay with being in the back or whatever, which, what I was doing before, but I kind of like broke through that and was like, you know what, you're better than this, you can overcome this. And like, I had helped so many teammates along the way by like speaking about my experience and like girls, other girls in my team had similar, similar anxiety issues that they then talk to me about right and like what I remember more is not even the winning it's like who did I help and who helped me I love that yeah I had my sister on who um you know she struggled with

an eating disorder she was a runner growing up not to the level that you were and she was really nervous to come on and share her story and then when the episode aired I mean hundreds of people wrote in and wrote her and told her how much her story really helped them. And I think that's part of the mental health crisis that we're missing is that the people that are going to carry the sword and really make an impact, I believe, like it's great, the therapist and the psychologist and the doctors, but it's people like us, you know, like sharing our stories and putting it out there so that, you know, the Olivia airs in, who's a freshman in high school right now who's getting sick before track meets listens to this and knows that it's okay to put her hand up and

ask for help. Yeah, and I wish, I mean, now I want to be that for people, but I wish I had that. Like, I would have been like, oh my God, it's not a big deal. I can just go get help. Have you talked to your coaches? Have you went back, have you shared any of this with? Yeah, they always knew that there was something, not something up, but like, No, no, I'm just curious. Like, have you actually, like, said to them, hey, can I come in and talk to the team? Or, hey, can you use my story? No, but I would love to.

Yeah. Yeah. And I had an amazing coach. I had two amazing coaches at Georgetown. The second coach was Coach Baker. And he, I'll never forget at the Big East when I did well. Like, all I needed was someone to, like, notice me and give me that little, like, word of affirmation. And all I said was, you're the same Olivia before and after.

And, like, that simple sentence. for me like I think that's honestly why I did so well because I was like oh my god I am like see my coach even says that like people he just had to get me out of my head right yeah and where is your family in all this throughout your supportive I was some of the races were far so they wouldn't come but I mean they were always supportive and always there for me and they they knew I that I had like struggled with this and they were supportive yeah I would try to talk me off, like, the ledge before and call me and make me feel better. Yeah.

And how does it all tie into your social life? I think in college I definitely had more of a social life because I didn't want to put all my, like, everything into running. Even though I did put a lot into it, like, I liked having the outlet of like, I'm done running. I can go back and hang out with my friends that aren't athletes and not talk about it, you know? because for me that that gave me relief yeah and so now being on the other side of it what we're seeing and what I'm seeing is there's been you know some high-profile suicides Katie Meyer who was the goalie at Stanford is one that comes up all the time and her family's really out there kind of leading the charge to try to

and make for some change. But that's not it. I mean, like you look at any college campus across America. And sadly, people are taking their own lives. And so I'm just curious for you, if those thoughts ever crept in, or if while you were at Georgetown, anybody from the studio, like where is your head at around some of that stuff? So luckily for me, those thoughts never crept in.

It was just, like, bad anxiety, and I knew, you know, if I didn't run well, I had those other athletes, luckily. But I think at Georgetown, I had a lot of friends who struggled with that. Yeah. And, like, which broke my heart, and there obviously needs to be more done. Like, you can't wait. If someone's feeling that way, you can't wait two weeks to go into a therapist. Like, you need it today. and I think that has been like part of the problem for some of the schools either one people are

don't think there's help for that or like the wait time to go in and see someone because I know the girl from Penn the therapist that she wanted to see was like a three week wait and she needed it like then and there so it's like how do we how do we make that happen yeah no I mean but I also think this is the conversation that we need to be having because I think there's a lot of people out there like you who might be struggling, but because they're not having these severe thoughts around suicide or whatever else it might be, they just convinced themselves that they're going to work through it. Yeah, that's what I did.

Like, it wasn't, I mean, for me, it wasn't as severe as that, but it was pretty bad. And I just was like, I have to push through. like, no one was talking about it around me, so I didn't know that it was something that one could be helped. I always thought there was something wrong. I was, like, embarrassed of it. Right. But then I kind of, like, in college having that support,

it did get, but there were races where I wouldn't get sick. And I would kind of just lean into, like, okay, I get nervous. And, like, I'm going to go see my support psychologist. And I would talk about it to people, which made it less of, before it was like this big thing in my mind and talking about it made things better. Yeah. What is your relationship with running?

What is your relationship with running in mental health and how is that all intertwined? Because I know for me, running is a savior, like, that's my savior. Like when I need that relief, I go out and I go for a run because it really helps me reset. So I think the year after college,

I didn't run at all during my fifth year. Like I didn't even exercise. I just didn't. And then as a result, you know, I was like, didn't like the way I looked because I wasn't taking good care of myself. But for me, like, I needed that time off. And now, you know, as time has gone on, I've, like, signed up for half marathons just because I want to. And, like, we'll go for a run every day. And it has a positive impact on my mental health because I can, it's like on my terms.

Yeah. And I've, since I've been doing that, I have felt like an itch. me to like race again like on my terms but you know I don't know if I'm going to do that but it has like came back a little bit like the passion and missing that yeah I just think that one your story has so much value because I think it's the reality of a lot of college athletes for you to say that everything you know like the relationship you know like the relationships were worth it, but kind of like everything outside of that maybe wasn't is really eye-opening to me.

And then we have this whole like NIL and now we're like getting into this other craziness, which I assume was not there when you were running. But what are your thoughts on that? Do you think? We were talking about that before, but I think I personally think like every athlete should be equal. I think especially for females, it can be a problem to NIL because you're working with like a lot of brands and it can make you compare yourself to others.

So I don't know enough about it, but I imagine it's not the best thing. When you say compare, like you're showing up to a start line and you're kind of like looking down the line and you're comparing yourself. Yeah, or just even like if one girl can get a brand deal with, you know, say, worry one of those brands and the other one can't, you're like, what's wrong with me? Kind of. And there's a lot of that. Yeah.

Yeah. Can we go back just real quick to, because I think it all ties into the paper you wrote. And for me, so, and it's like, it's heavy for me to talk about. So I played, so me and my dad, and it sounds like you have coaches and people in your life who you were, you were close to it. Like, for me, my dad was my coach and he was my dad. And so all throughout high school and all throughout college, it was all we ever talked about was baseball. Right. Right. And when it became clear that my baseball career was going to be over, like I was not going to play professionally and I was going to enter into the workforce, I felt like I lost two things. One, I lost a friend, like I lost my dad because we really didn't have anything to talk about. We had to really recreate that relationship. And that took a toll on my mental health. And then I also lost kind of the competitive spirit. and the desire to kind of stay in shape

and I let myself go right right and I I didn't really for me it wasn't until I got sober that I realized how much I let myself go my story's different than yours but we have a lot of obviously commonality so I'm just curious like you talked about being a woman and in your fifth year

and like saying you let like what does that transition look like going from being a high level college athlete to now being a fifth year senior and just kind of hanging out yeah so I think I definitely track was a huge part of my identity for so long so and a lot of athletes go through this you can either like transition really positively and like go right in the workforce and have

that competitive edge still or I think the majority of people really struggle because you do feel like a piece of you is like taken away and I didn't want to work out I didn't want to run I hated running my roommates were all like still running at the time they all went to UVA and some of them ran at Georgetown for us for a fifth year but like they'd be like when I go on around I'd be like absolutely not like I honestly don't know what I did with that year because I did school

and I had fun with like friends and explore D.C. outside of running but I definitely it took a toll on like oh my god now I have to think about what I'm eating like I never have thought about this because I was always running like seven or eight miles a day right and so it definitely just was a new

ballgame for me thinking of all that stuff that's wild it's so wild i can't even imagine i mean like i just you know operating at that level and then just having all the pressure of it's a you know like that transition is is crazy and we don't talk about that yeah like it's what i've heard about chew you up and then spit you out yeah and i think for me it was a mixture of feelings because I was happy the pressure was gone like a huge like weight of anxiety was lifted off of me but at the same time then I was like what now like I have only known myself as Olivia is in the runner and I know I'm a good friend and I know I'm other things but like a huge part of that was being a runner right and what does life look like today I mean so I want to I want to do

two things I want to touch on first of all your story's incredible I want to thank you for sharing it because I feel like every young female runner needs to hear this or young female athlete needs to hear this because we define ourselves so much by the performance on the field and we convince ourselves that if we don't perform well then we are not going to be loved and that's a really sick way of thinking yeah and that just that line alone like if that's engraved in your head that's so hard to break out of like you have to rewire your brain and like I would have to say to myself on the line like again what my coach said to me like I'm still the same Olivia before and after like I'm so much more than just

a time result like just having to repeat that to yourself has definitely helped me in college yeah so when do you start I'm gonna shift gears to modeling because you told me this story before that's so fucked up and I just like I just want to like kind of touch on it and whatever you're willing to share fine whatever you're not willing to share but so when do you start modeling when does when does it shift to kind of wanting to do some of that work and can you kind of take me through take me through that because I think whether it's athletics or modeling I mean these are all high pressure kind of situation so it's fascinating to me that you would yeah go down that road so I think I started doing that in high school like a little bit I'll never forget I did like

a photo shoot or something in that year that I was off where I wasn't exercising and they just had like a lot to say about like the way I looked like you look different but wouldn't say what and they were like you just look like you gain a lot of weight like it's fine if you did but for me that was so confusing because I'm like already going through the struggling not being an athlete like thinking about the way I look and that made it like exemplified but and in such a time where like the modeling industry has been like oh let's promote body positivity like get rid of body shaming i was just shocked that someone could so can i ask questions about modeling because i'm curious right so it's another area and i think modeling is probably and i don't know shit about modeling

and what's going on in that industry but i would imagine that they're probably even behind college athletics in terms of like mental health support and the way they treat people and how success is defined so I'm just very fascinated so you you go and you take photos and then you get a call and they sign like what how do you become a model I mean that's I guess they so someone have reached out to me on Instagram and then I submitted photos and then you go and do like a test shoot then they liked me and they liked me when I of course was like running you know I was in the peak shape of my life, and a lot has changed throughout the years. So then, like, this past year, I got an email.

It was like, yeah, it was really nice working with you. You look a lot different. Like, we're done with you. And I was like, that's fine by me. I don't want to work with anyone that, like, I look like a normal woman now. Like, I don't look like 100 pounds, like how I used to when I was running that many miles a day. And I'm, like, so comfortable in my own skin now. whereas before I was literally like skin and bones

but I didn't have like an eating disorder right um so I was just like shocked I'm like wow I'm like happy now so if you don't like that then I don't like you I'm good I love that that's incredible I mean that just tells me that you've done the work and you've you know so so much this is like self-love right I mean as a guy I think for us we we people think it's cheesy to talk about loving yourself and being proud of who you are and I've gotten very I mean I don't give a shit I'm

40 years old. Like I am who I am at this point. But for you to know that this early on in your life is super cool. So, but when you're a model, you show up, is it New York? Is it Philly? Like, where are you going? And then do you have a main contact there? Who sends you this email? I'm just very fascinated by the way you're treated in that environment. Yeah. You'll get like an email. It'll be an address that you have to go to for a casting. And that the casting is like a try out pretty much so you're in a room of like 50 girls no one's very nice honestly and yeah it's it's like a con like you're like competing against each other what made you want makes what makes you want to do that well I just think I'm I'm like a different model I guess because I go in those rooms

and I'm like talkative and like want to have fun and I walk out and I get a cheeseburger like I don't get a shit so and I do love like athletic wear like if I do model it would want to be like athletic wear like bikinis yeah yeah that's what I'm passionate about but okay so you're gonna keep doing it I think I don't know I mean if someone else has something rude I don't care like I have a good job I don't it's not my main source of income yeah so it's not like make or break like I need to do this giving you a couple stats here on what's going on currently with women and in college sports but also um seeing what you might change but what's what's life today like give give us the hope like

where do you end up so now i'm i'm living in philadelphia with a roommate my all my families in philly amazing so i'm very happy to be close to them um i'm working for the world cup coming to philadelphia in 2026 and the u.s and Canada and Mexico so i'm really excited working on that kind of like once in a lifetime event um and i'm just really passionate about what i'm doing And then I think on the side, like, if I can get back involved somehow in track, whether it's, I don't know if I want to, like, run competitively or if I could just, like, help out and coach people someday, I would love that because I feel like I could, like, translate what I went through and help people, or even younger kids.

Like, it doesn't matter the age group, I think. So I expect the hook up in 2026 in Philly when the World Cup. But aside from that, so if you had the opportunity to, let's go to here first before I asked you that question. I'm just looking at some numbers here. 44% of all women athletes report, so this is a survey that the NCAA did for 23,000 student athletes. So it's a large number. 44% of women athletes report feeling overwhelmed. Is that accurate in your experience?

I think probably more. And then only 50% reported feeling comfortable, seeking support from a licensed mental health provider on campus. So like if almost half of these people are feeling overwhelmed, and as a society we are starting to talk about mental health a little bit more but then only half of those people would actually be willing to go get the help that they need why do you think we are still stigmatizing going to therapy and getting the help that folks need I think it's probably a mixture of things I think for sure like the athlete mentality

like if you're some people aren't able to break out of that and go break down their walls and ask for help because of they're scared or they think something's wrong with them or people will judge them. And then I also think it's, I know that coaches and the NCAA are normalizing it, especially after everything that's happened, but I think having the resources, like the fact that only 25 D1 schools have that full-time sports psychologist, like student athletes are more likely to go to what's available to them than go. like off campus and pay out of pocket or something like that.

And I just think it's such a need. Like these schools probably need more than one psychologist on staff. Because even if you go to caps or something, they might not specialize in like athletes or exactly what the sports psychologist is doing. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, a full-time sports psychologist. psychologist, even if there was just one Olivia Erison, in the entire athletic, across all the athletic teams, that warrants that position, right?

And so to say there's only 25 colleges that do that, that's very sad to me. It is sad. It's very sad because I can't imagine how many people are, you know, having this experience that you've had where you're defining. who you are by your success on the track, so much so that you are getting sick before races. You're assuming that your family doesn't love you, you know, if you don't perform the way that you think you're supposed to perform.

And then at the end of the day, at the end of four years or five years or whatever it is, you're expected to just transition into the world as if nothing, as if nothing happened where your physical body is going to change, your mental state is going to change, the structure from your days are going to be removed, you're going to lose a community. I mean, all of these things that are built in, and really the beauty of college athletics, too, because there is some positive, I believe that, are taken away from you.

I mean, like, the fact that there's so little resources is just mind-bending to me. Yeah, I think, I can't believe I was lucky enough to have, like, a full-time sports psychologist, but I can't imagine other schools. So you would say Georgetown did a good job? I think Georgetown did a great job. That's good. That's good for them. Okay, so if you could tell sixth grade or freshman Olivia a couple things, looking back now, what would that be?

Well, first, that everything is going to work out and be okay, and then that, like, you are way more than any time, result, place, any of that. like that and now I look back and I don't remember the times I'm more so remember like the memories with all my teammates which that I don't regret at all I had an amazing time um and like lifelong friends forever like build in sisters so that just that I would savor those moments more than them worrying about like the result yeah because I feel like so much of what we talked about today was that feeling before of getting sick. It completely consumed me. Like the before feeling, it wasn't even worth the after feeling if I did well.

Of winning. Yeah. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, I think your story is similar to a lot of college athletes. My hope is that by having these conversations, we're going to continue to move the needle just a little bit, you know. Some people listen to this and identify and relate and reach out to you. That'll be a really good thing.

But to your point, I think, you know, we probably need to make some pretty wholesale changes in terms of the level of support that is provided to college athletes. Because I think of it two ways. I mean, for me, I'm someone that loves sports. I love competitive sports. I think that competition can be really healthy. And for me, a lot of losing turned me into who I am today and learning to lose and, you know, getting back on my feet and all the things that you talk about, resilience within athletics. So I wouldn't want us to lose that.

No, I think there's a fine line. Like, I think that competitive, the lessons that I've learned, too, from like, you know, struggling through that anxiety and pushing through and still competing, that. has like translated over in so many areas in my life but I think it's taking a step back and being like I'm not defined by this at all right yeah because on the flip side of that right to your point most college athletes are going to end up anywhere but an athletic field right in an office somewhere and even just like leading with that reality at freshman year like when the athletes come in Like say, hey, guys, this is, we were going to try to win.

We were going to try and be our best. We were going to try and push the needle in terms of, like, excellent. But at the end of the day, most of us are going to end up not doing anything having to do with athletics. And I think the expectation, though, on my team was that most of us are going pro. So I don't think that was talked about. Oh, shit. Yeah. I mean, you come from everyone that's like state champion.

And most girls have that dream. And I think for a while I had that dream until I was like, that was like, that was. that would if I actually did that like for my life it's for some people it's not for me were Olympic trial like was Olympic a thing that you thought about always yeah so you're like the trials are going off right now you're why do you know any of these I know a lot of them a lot of them were from Georgetown I watched them last night but um I think like watching that does make me miss it and does make me have some like regret I'm like I that could have been me but then I remind myself like you know maybe physically I could have done it

but mentally I don't think I could have right no I mean that's a huge deal of taking care of yourself I mean it's interesting I watch it too I'm a kind of a track and field nerd I love it I've like fallen into into that world in some really weird bizarre way and you know Michael Johnson who's a sprinter was a sprinter I don't know if you know who Michael Johnson is I know who Michael Johnson is but He was like big time, you know, growing up when I was growing up, Olympics, the whole deal. He just started a track league called Grand Slam Track where he's basically raised. I think they're giving away like $12 million a year in prize money. They're going to have these four Grand Slam events throughout the year so that track athletes can actually make money doing it, which is another thing.

Like I feel like swimming and track and some of these Olympic sports are the most demanding and they pay shit. Yeah. you're not making a lot of money, which is insane. Right. Because that has to be your full-time job. You can't be training for the Olympics and working at a 9-to-5. Right. It's really for the love of the game.

Yeah. Well, I'd love to see you get back at at some point, selfishly. Maybe someday. Yeah, just because I know you. Yeah. And it's just been really nice to chat with you and go into detail on some of this stuff. I'm sure that people will reach out to you and have additional questions. It sounds like you're ready to support them.

Before we go, what championship of the four Philadelphia sports teams do you want the most next? The Eagles. Eagles, always birds. Okay. All right, so we'll try and run the 10-mile this summer. I'm going to maybe hold you to that in Seattle. And anything else before we go, you think it's important for people to hear? I think that's it.

Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you for tuning in. and this is a good one. Peace.