The Zac Clark Show - Dad Gang: Building a Business, a Community & a Better Version of Fatherhood

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

Dad Gang founders Bart Szaniewski and Grant Eastey join Zac for a conversation about fatherhood, men's mental health, entrepreneurship and building a community where dads don't have to figure everything out alone. They open up about how becoming a father changed them, navigating miscarriage and infertility, why so many new dads struggle in silence, and what it means to let your kids see you ask for help, make mistakes and keep going. They also tell the unlikely story behind Dad Gang — from three friends making their first 100 hats to building an eight-figure brand, showing up on social media every single day for more than four years, and eventually bringing Gary Vee into the company as a partner. Behind it all, Dad Gang was never supposed to be just another hat company. It's about giving fathers a community, challenging outdated ideas about masculinity and reminding dads that their kids are watching how they live. Connect with Dad Gang Dad Gang (@dadgang.co) Bart Szaniewski (@theszef) Ejay O'Donnell (@ejayodonnell) Grant Eastey (@geastey) Learn More About Dad Gang https://www.dadgang.co/ Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There was a gentleman who reached out and he sent a picture with his eviction notice and all he was asking for was a free hat. To us, it's like, we're doing this for a community. So I sent him a hat. Four years ago, three best friends and new dads had a group text where they talked about the highs and lows of fatherhood. Naturally, they ended up naming that group chat dad gang. We were sick of like logging onto Instagram and seeing dads just like drinking beers and having a dad bodod. just telling you to like mow the lawn. What does that tell you as a man?

Figure it the fuck out. Be tough. Be masculine. This is not real. Today, Dad Gang has hold more than one million hats, generated more than $35 million in revenue, and recently brought on Gary Vaynerchuk as a partner and strategic advisor.

The hats are great. We love the hats, but we are absolutely nothing if we're not like helping men with their mental health. What can we do in that moment where you continue pushing instead of giving up. All right, so I'm here with Dad Gang, two of the three, Bart and Grant. Someone's got to stay home and work. Shout out, E.J.

Yeah, thanks, E.J. Well, look, I've just sat down with you guys here and we were catching up just a little bit before the show and I can tell you guys, love your lives. Smile and happy part of that's probably from being fathers. And the other part is probably from Dad Yang. which has had some crazy success. So I want to start just with, I'm not a father. I hope to be a father one day.

So I'm looking forward to this conversation because I want to learn from you guys. What was the one thing and you can both take this question that you, that you didn't know about being a dad until you had a kid? So many. Yeah. I think I can start it off. So on our hats, we say that we have, If you know, you know, just right here and he's got it there.

But like, when we started the brand, it was kind of like, you really don't know how life will be once you become a father. And I think like that guy that you were before you had kids is kind of, he's not gone, but he's just a different guy. And everybody tells you like having kids is the biggest blessing. And it really is. Sometimes you can hear that before and you're like, oh, well, it's going to be a lot of work. it's going to be a lot of this. And sure, that happens. But I think who you become as a father, when you become a father, is like the 2.0,

3.0 version of yourself. And I hope that for most dads. Your kids are looking at you every day. They're looking at your actions. They're looking at how you're treating your body, what you're doing, how you're speaking to your spouse, all these things. And I think if we approach life that way, if we approach it from a lens of I'm being watched by my kids, I better be the,

better version of myself. I think that's what fatherhood, like, can really do for you. And people can go the other way, just keep being their old selves. But I do love the, like, you are becoming a better man because you're showing your kids, like the ultimate version of yourself. Do you give yourself permission to make mistakes? Oh, yeah. And I think, I think we wouldn't have started Dad Gang if we didn't celebrate our mistakes and our failures. Um, Grant and I have known each other for since like 2008 and we've tried various things. We've tried various small businesses, printing T-shirts, hosting concerts back in college, like lots of stuff.

And we've learned through all of that stuff. We've worked for other people that it just didn't work out. And we had to make those mistakes and go through like really, really shitty times and in our lives to like get to this point. And so I, we want to. want our kids to be able to know that, hey, if you messed up, like, what did you learn from it? And nobody's ever going to be perfect. So might as well just kind of own your mistakes and lean into them.

So, yeah, you can, they definitely have to see that from you too. And, I mean, look, I was on my run this morning and I was thinking about, am I even qualified to be interviewing you guys because I'm not a father? But the thing that came up for me is the first kid, you find out that your wife pregnant and there's this nine months, which is a decent amount of time. Yeah. Where you know your life is about to change. Yeah.

Can you talk about that period of time? Because for me, that's what I'm fascinated by. It's like, okay, you get this news. And then it's kind of business as usual or what, you know? It's a buildup for sure, you know, especially for me, you know, and I know other dads can relate, but that first doctor's appointment when you're in there and you hear that heartbeat, that was very powerful for me. You know, just to actually hear the heartbeat to see it and to know that's you, you know, and then you start going back to the other doctor's appointments as the baby starts to

grow. And then you find yourself, for me, I found myself like holding my breath because the doctors or the nurses, they're not saying anything during it. They're just kind of doing a scan and you have to make sure everything's okay and you got you know everything's you know this limbs there that limbs there and you know they're going through the whole process and then at the end they're like all right everything looks good you know and you're like and you know that those appointments you'll find yourself holding your breath more and more and more because you know you're just waiting to hear good news every appointment you know like okay baby's healthy baby's growing baby's facing the right way and then all of a sudden you have the baby and when you hold your

first born for the very first time, you just feel like this, I did at least, I just felt something like take over my body. And it was just like this powerful, just energy. I just, I felt in my hands. And it was just, it's something that I can't explain. It's a big part of that if you know, you know, that we have on our hats. But then from there, you know, just like Bart said, all of a sudden you are this new person you're this new man and you have this new found energy that you know to me is god's best blessing right i i hope to experience it one day i i know that i will you know i know that i will i'm 42 i got plenty of time i got plenty of time and the thing that i don't know like if you know you know the thing that's coming up for me with that is what i didn't know

as a young guy growing up in this world and now having friends that have been through it and obviously having female friends that have been through it, they don't tell you as a kid about miscarriage and infertility and some of the real pain that can be a part of this journey. Have you guys, I think part of your community has reached out to you in that regard and spoken about some of the pain and how you guys have supported them in that? Absolutely. Absolutely. Rochelle, my wife and I, we tried for about three years for our second one.

And there was two miscarriages in between that. So those doctor's appointments are hitting that much harder for the second one because we had two miscarriages. And you know, as the father and the partner to her, you know, even though it's like really difficult for me to go through, it's a hundred times more difficult for a woman to go through that miscarriage. So not only, you know, do we have to find a way to get support for ourselves and, you know, we're good in the mental headspace because that's very difficult, especially when you're trying

and you're trying. And to us, it was, we went to multiple different doctors and what they chalked it up to was unexplained infertility. And my wife and her are sitting there like, how can we not explain this? There has to be answers, but there was no answers. You know, everything looked good. Everything checked out good. Blood work was fine, you know.

Everything was there. and that just having that like you know unexplained infertility was very difficult especially through the miscarriages and so it's like how am i there to be supportive for her during that time and you never know like how long the grievance period is it's not like okay it's one month of support and then you're good to go you know it's ongoing especially the further you go and the more you're trying to do everything right trying to eat right you know trying to make sure you have your right vitamins and everything. We even did like we didn't do IVF, but it was the stage before that. IUI. IUI. We did IUI. That didn't work. You know? And so it she ended up just fully giving up.

Because one thing to like say like, okay, I'm done. I'm just going to give up, you know. And they always say just just give up and then it'll happen. But doing that is very difficult. And then watching your partner have to like go through that is difficult too because you know on their mind and on our minds the whole time is we want to get pregnant. And the craziest part is through all that as my oldest boy, he's 10, he really wanted to be a big brother to a big brother, babysitter, like sister, like really bad, you know, and he doesn't understand that age. We can't explain to him, you know, the adult version of what's actually going on, but just knowing he really wanted to become a big brother outside of the miscarriages, outside of the explained in fertility outside of trying for, you know, darn near three years,

then you have that added pressure on of your oldest wanting to become a sibling. So there's just like so much that comes to like that mental health aspect of it, where then you're going back, you know, when she finally got pregnant, breath of fresh air, but still those nine months were like, you know, please be okay. Stressful. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, and so.

And to answer your question, a little bit more too. Like, yes, we built this community to help dads with that along the way. Because we were sick of like logging onto Instagram and seeing dads just like mowing the lawn and drinking beers and having a dad bod and all that kind of stuff. It was like, where's the like community that can talk to us about miscarriages, infertility, mental health issues, just so many things that men and and their wives go through and there just wasn't a brand for it in the fatherhood space at least um and that's where like we started getting kind of like angry going on instagram you're you're going through it as a man you log on and it's just telling you to like mow the lawn it's like

this is not real and so our community is like filled with men that are like i got a hat because we're we're trying for a kid and i just got it because i just wanted to like put more energy into it just what I'm going to be a dad. I'm going to, we're not pregnant yet, but I'm going to get a hat for when, when it happens. And then we get all these stories out, like, guess what? We got pregnant and not to say the hat did it, but it's good to like, not to say it didn't.

Not to say it either, but like, but we have stories where like we did a podcast with, uh, mookie bats. Yeah. And he and his, uh, videographer was telling us about his infertility struggles with his wife. And we were just like, They were about to do IVF. Yeah, yeah. And we're like, hey, just take a hat, you know,

like maybe it'll bring you some good luck. And then the next time we saw him, I think Grant saw him at a bowling charity thing. And he's like, guess what? He's pregnant. Shout out Mookie. Shout out Mookie. Shout out Mookie bets until the postseason.

Anyway, so I'm glad you guys are focused on that because I would imagine there's a lot of men out there that feel very alone. What I know in my work is that, substance abuse, mental health, it's all centered around loneliness. So the fact that you guys are building community is incredible. And I'm certain that when dads to be don't have a place to turn, they turn to alcohol, they turn to drugs, they turn to isolation, video games, whatever it is. So I'm just proud of you guys for creating this community. It's so important. Yeah. Thank you. It means a lot, man. You know, hearing the stories that we have come

through, we do our absolute best to stay in our DMs, to call customers, because to us, they're not even customers. They're like, it is community, you know, and it means a lot to us. And as cool as it is to see Muky Betts or other celebrities and athletes wear the hats, the most important things to us that keep us motivated are the tough stories that we hear and seeing a dad out in the wild wearing the hat, you know, and it's, it means a lot to us to see that, to know that, you know, it's tough for men to open up. and always has been, but even them knowing that there's a group there, whether they open up

and talk or not, just the feeling of knowing it's there can keep them going in the right direction. Well, I just, I know I've been in plenty of relationships where my partner is struggling. And as a result of that, I don't feel safer. I don't, I don't feel well, but I am too scared to kind of voice that because I want her to know that I'm strong. And so I would imagine for the for the male in this situation, it's very hard to kind of carry the weight of the woman, but also be honest that they're struggling to. Yeah. With that being like being said, specific to like kind of your audience too in our private Facebook group.

We have a private Facebook group. Anybody can get in. But it's 15,000 dads. And the other day. Awesome. And the other day some guy chimed in. I think he was like seven. or eight months into his sobriety journey.

And I approve all the posts before they go in because I don't want like a spam account to post, you know, their Bitcoin wallet or whatever. And, um, and he's like seven or eight months sober. And I'm like, hell yeah, we're going to let this post fly for sure. And it was so cool because it was like, it was just like immediate support. So not, not just like the post sat there and waited. He posted. like seven or eight months into my sobriety journey.

This is what I've been going through. I'm proud of myself. You know, it's even like looked weak sometimes for men to like brag about loving themselves, you know? And, and this post just got flooded with support and flooded with other guys being like, I've been there too.

You got this. I'm currently going through a journey. Um, just so much like I would say like 70 plus comments of just like love for this one guy to keep going. And imagine if you walked into a room. I always like to think of things in like a literal sense. So imagine you walked into a room while you were like just starting your seven months of sobriety.

And 70 guys, other dads came up to you and were like, you got this. Like we're here for you. That's what it feels like in that group. So yeah, even more so. Like the hats are great. We love the hats. But we are absolutely nothing if we're not like helping men with their mental health. Fatherhood is like fathers in their journey, all that stuff.

Yeah. I wouldn't want to build this brand if it was just like another hat. Well, that's, I mean, that sounds like your origin story, right? You guys all throw in $250. Yeah. Buy a hundred hats. Who wants to tell the origin stories? When do you guys take it?

Yeah. Yeah. So as I stated earlier, we were just kind of looking around on Instagram and social media, not thinking let's start a big business whatsoever. But we're all dads with young kids and just kind of always venting to one another in our text thread, the three of us. And say we'd have like a hard day. We like Grant would help me out.

He'd say, hey man, you got this. Dad gang. And then that would always happen. Like, man, today was crazy. My kid threw up. Had to go like get them from school. My boss was mad at me. I got a flat tire, blah, blah, blah.

And like all these things all the time. And we end it with dad gang. And then it got to a point where it's like, oh, it's like a hat with dad gang on it. And it wasn't like a once again was not a business idea. Yeah, it was just like, should we make some hats? Sure. And this is on the heels of many failed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is 12 plus years of the surrender. Yeah. The post that people flood. This is beautiful. All right, keep going. And through that, we made the hats. They're like a black and white trucker just to start something that just goes with everything.

And then we're like, hey, should we make more of these? And then so the factory that we worked with said we had to make 100. It was just like a minimum. And since we had worked in marketing and direct-to-consumer and all this stuff and e-commerce, we just spun up a quick Shopify site. And then we all posted like, hey, we made some, we made these dad gang hats just on our personal Instagrams. And this is what the brand stands for.

Just thought dads could use something a little more real. And then through that, we just posted the link and those first hundred hats sold out in less than 36 hours. And through that, we're like, What were you selling them for? Do you remember? 35. 35 a hat.

What are they today? 40. 40? Yeah. We've added a ton of like materials and like made the hats better. We just went like first crack or like truckers. Let's go. But.

And so we got more hats and those we got like 300 and those sold out in six days with no advertising, no spend going into it. And how many followers did you guys all have at that point? Was it? Personally. Yeah. Nothing. A couple hundred?

A couple thousand. on my personal page it was probably around 20,000 on mine and then you have about 9, 10 and then EJ had about three or four or something like that. Nothing that would like really move the needle. Yeah. And then all those first orders were like friends and family. Yeah. So then as we started ordering more hats, we started seeing the orders.

We're like from people we didn't know. And then we're like, okay, we might have something here. And then leaned into it, made content every day. We've never missed a post. we've never missed a post on Instagram in four and a half years. So just every day posting, reposting stories like our Instagram. What does that mean? So you've posted something on dad gang Instagram every day for the past four and a half years?

Yeah, every single day. At least once. Yeah. And at least like 10 stories a day. That's it, man. That's business. That's life showing up. I always say that's my number one quality.

I show up. Yeah. I get like anxious if it's 9 p.m. and I haven't put anything up. I usually do it well before that, but like it's something that me doing the marketing, like I've personally just held like a discipline to it that like you have to post every day. And we work with Gary V. Like you got to listen to that guy around.

I'm going to get there. Yeah. That's the big news. That's the big news. But when did you guys know it was like you had a business? When did you know? Was it pretty quickly? It was going into the first Black Friday.

So around like November, 2022, Bart was moving into a second home about. to have a second kid and he had to relinquish the shipping duties from his small garage that couldn't even fit a car. And I was living in an apartment in SoCal. And so I couldn't do any of the shipping out of the apartment. And so E.J. was the only other one that could really take it over. And then all of a sudden, I think we got like 1,200 orders in a month for that month in November. And that took over E.J.'s living room, kitchen, carport, because all the boxes had to go there. And then he had his in-laws and his parents. He didn't have a house anymore.

It was just the shipping center. Yeah. Pretty much. So at that point in time, we knew we had something and we had to take the next step because we couldn't continue using EJ's home as a shipping facility. And you, all three of you had other jobs. Yeah. Yeah.

They're gone, right? This is the main focus. Yeah. When was there a. We all jumped at different times. E.J. more recently in May. Yeah. He is, I always say he's a robot.

He just can do so many things at one. He'll be like training for an iron man working two jobs, you know, being a great dad, handling it all. But he was able to step away from his full time this past May. Grant was first to jump. I was like, drew all in. This guy was all in. All in.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's been all in though. I love it. Before Dad Gang too. Yeah. He's like, I'm moving in California and going to be an actor.

So much of that is true, though, in life. Yeah. anyone who's successful, we know this. They have, you got to be a little delusional. You got to be a little, I, myself included. Yeah. You hang that. Absolutely.

You have to be crazy. People, and there's so many like, good luck with that dad gang thing comments like along the way and just love that. Oh, yeah. The fuel from like people thinking you're crazy, that, that shit gets me going. Yeah. It's pretty funny. I remember I was coaching.

I coach baseball. And I was at, it's called Pony Baseball when my kid was like six. And I remember having one of the first dad gang trucker hats and another dad. And it was like, oh, what's that? I was like, oh, it's a hat company that my buddies and I are starting. And, you know, just, he's like, oh, cool, like kind of snubbed me. Like, you know, I'm like, all right, you know. But just like having to get through that as an entrepreneur, like that happens so much.

And it has for so long, you know, where you just got to be unfazed by it and just know what you're doing and keep rocking from there. So. But it feels like you guys knew pretty early on that this was going to go. Yeah, November 2022 for sure. That's when it was like, we have to take the next steps and see what we can do here because we owe it to the community. We owe it to the dads. The dad's telling the stories.

You know, it was, gosh, that, I want to say slightly before that November, there was a gentleman who reached out and he sent a picture with his eviction notice and his ID and a long message on our Instagram. and all he was asking for was a free hat to help him get through his tough time. And he goes, you know, I'm getting evicted. I'm going through a breakup, working with custody, you know, to get a fair share custody for my kids. I want to be a very supportive father. It's just a really tough time.

At that point in time, we maybe had like 800 hats in stock. And so, but he doesn't know that. Nobody knows that. But he was just asking for a free hat, you know, and we're no position at that time to be given stuff away for free. but to us it's like we're doing this for a community we're not doing this for a business and if this dad was vulnerable enough to take that and send that to random people that he has never met looking for support that is a calling right there that is something saying like yes so i sent him a hat they didn't even know it at the time um but then later on told them come around this last april

he reaches back out in the dms and eJ sees the message and he goes oh look at at this message that we just got, you know? And I was like, shit, I sent that guy a hat in 2022. He's like, I've landed on my feet, got a great place to stay, great custody of the kids. If it wasn't for that hat, I don't think I would have been able to get through those times. Thank you so much for sending them. I have 15 of your hats now. And it's been a huge part of keep going, keep going. So it's like those stories are just so impactful, you know, because I've had so many friends. I've been close to eviction, you know, like just not knowing you're dependent on that next paycheck coming in. And a lot of dads are in that position too, you know, working paycheck to

paycheck amongst everything else. And so it's like, yeah, dude, like, I get it, man, you know, and if this hat is super good quality hat, but it's something that you're proud to wear, you know, instead like a flimsy dad hat that they, you know, was this typical standard, like this is a hat you can put on, you can be proud to wear and you can keep pushing because I've had a lot of friends in the program and a lot of friends, you know, be like seven years sober and then fall off. you know, and then relapse. And then we have to bring them back around. And so if we could continue to inspire and continue to motivate where you are facing eviction, because that shit's real, and it does happen way more than people think, or you're facing a loss or you're going through a

breakup, you know, it's like, what can we do in that moment where you continue pushing instead of giving up? You just made them feel seen. Yeah. You made them feel seen. And that's half the battle. I mean, as kids growing up, you hear people talk about trauma. Yeah, there's this cataclysmic events that can take place, but most trauma is just about not feeling loved, not feeling seen, not feeling like enough, you know, for whatever reason you decided to send this guy this hat. He felt like another human being actually cared about him when probably assumed no one did. It's very cool.

And then he became a good customer. I mean, buying 16 hats or 15 hats or whatever it is, the return on that investment worked out. Yeah, it did. Just knowing that he's doing better, that's the best. No, it's not about the money. I get it, but there's a, there's a business element to all of this. And, uh, you made, so are you doing 35, what did I see, 35 million in revenue?

What was harder? The first million or the next or the jump from like a million to 35 million in revenue? Like what was? Yeah, we're, we're always growing year over year. I do think like just like quick e-commerce scale talk. But like I do think where you where you do get into that like eight figure stage, that's where it gets tougher to grow. But from like, you know, say you're like at 35 million to get to 60 is more challenging than

than to get from zero to one million in our experience at least. I know different products sell differently, price points, all that stuff. But like we're just having so much. fun building this thing at the beginning that it was never like when when we first started it we were like we're not going to build a brand to add more stress to our lives we're starting a brand that celebrates fatherhood and supports men and we love being dad so much that this is why we're doing it and so we never like sat there and like projected you know revenues and all that kind of stuff because there was no pressure to like need to grow for anything financially we had jobs we wanted to just

build this. But I would say just from like a technical standpoint, that the next growth lever is probably tougher than just starting and trying something. Do you, real talk for a minute, do you, and then we're going to get to Gary Vey. Everyone will tell you don't go into business with your friends. I have lost good friends through business.

You know, it just has been a part of my story. large rock bands break up when they become famous, you know, and they start in some garage somewhere and eventually make it to Madison Square Garden. And then all of a sudden you hear the rumblings that, you know, there's this infighting. Have you guys experienced any of that? Do you have anything that you've done to make sure that kind of the friendship stays first amongst the three of you? We just care about each other so much. Like, I care so much about him and his wife and his kids and Egypt.

and his wife and his kids as if they're my own kids and are the relationships that our kids have together and just everything we've already been through. We've already been through so much as friends. And so we just want to have each other's back. And it's just it's never been an issue. People have said that all the time. We say the opposite. You know, we say get into business with your friends and your family.

Win as a unit. If you guys can all win as a family, you know, like not just individual family, but like as a family, all of us, that's incredible, you know? And so you just got to, I don't know, I think for us, we're all faith-based, you know, and so we all believe in God and we just know there's something greater out. They're pulling us together for a calling instead of a business. And we just kind of share that. And it's like unspoken.

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for, like, I'm all for the let's win together. Yeah. I believe in God, you know, I'm with you on all, like, this whole conversation. I also know, you know, money is powerful and it's a thing. And there's jealousy and there's resentment and maybe someone's getting a little more level on social. I don't know the inner workings of your partnership. I'm just very fascinated that.

No, I get, I get what you're saying too. Even like sitting down with, uh, with Gary Vee, who's like saying on our podcast here is like, Like three is really tough, like three, three co-founders. And we kind of look at each other. Like, this has been, this has been great. I do understand there's like another level, say we're like, you know, on, I don't know, like super, super fame. We actually don't care to be that important from the brand standpoint.

So that's the other thing is like, we love doing these podcasts and like chatting and all this stuff because we want to reiterate the meaning of the brand. But like for the longest time, we're like, let's not show ourselves because the brand is the brand. It's dad gang. Like, it's not Grant EJ and Bart whatsoever. Like, we don't want that to be that. And I think we just keep that energy around everything. And we talk 24-7, well, we sleep. But we talk a lot in a text thread. Like the whole company's been just built off texting every single day. Very simple. And then you have to, like, grants, there's a layer of care or a layer of trust that you just have to put

into the other person and you have to think of it differently like how cool is it to say i get to build a business with my friends not some random guy that has ideas and we have to like form a awkward corporate relationship through that right so i think we view it as like no we get to do this together not like let's screw this up because we got blessed with great opportunities and i think we don't even have to say it to each other it's just kind of like the energy around it all and then Like the lane thing is cool too because it's like Grant's mainly handling like retail sales, customer service, some marketing. I handle all of marketing content, anything you see online, social media, all that stuff.

He's the one making you dance. Yeah. And then EJ's all ops, but like none of us swerve into each other's lanes. Like if I do something on social media later today, I don't even, I don't even like say a word, right? And then if Grant gets a new retailer or like activates a partnership with, with lids, which we're in now, it's like, that's all you. And EJ is all ops. I would never want to do the warehouse stuff.

So we just kind of stay in our lanes and nobody really like, I know it's rare too. Like even as I'm saying it, I know it's super rare to move this way. It's a grant's point earlier, like as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a manager of human beings and a manager of your own life, you got to be a little delusional. Yeah. The lane thing is super important too. And it may be difficult because like, you know, if you weren't. business with your friends, the truck, you would, you would have like a very fine print,

like this is what you need to do and here's what you need to be hitting. You know, with us, I'm never like looking at Bart's numbers and saying, Bart, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Never, you know, and vice versa. You know, so for us, it's like, if Bart were to do something online tomorrow and did some, you know, paid marketing and tried to do some paid ads and it didn't work and, you know, a bunch of money was gone, I know he was giving. I know he was giving it his best. I don't need to sit there and be like, well, what happened here? What happened to that? You know, and that's where we've all come from agencies and jobs and stuff where it was just such unadded stress where we never wanted that for each other. And so our lanes, like, I can absolutely

help as needed on either one, but it's kind of like the perfect triangle for us where we all have our lane and we can blend into each other's lanes to help as needed if asked. And we can do that comfortably, but, you know, we, we just stay in our lanes and we have full trust that the other person's given it their best because we know they are. And it's stuff that we don't even have to speak about. It's just like the energy that's there. And so, I don't know. I think energy is huge. I agree. Look, I'm rooting for you guys. And I'm a believer. I don't want to act like I'm, you know, just because of other people's experiences. I mean, this is, this is cool. So, Bart, You're on the stair master.

You're watching YouTube. Good research. You're like watching Gary Vee. You're getting pumped up. Yeah. You're realizing that you're like hanging in there until the end of these videos. Yeah. Take me from that moment to you're shaking Gary V's hand and you're bringing him on to the dad

gang team. No, it's really crazy. I say it's like you love basketball. You play. and you look up to LeBron, let's say, and then LeBron's like, hey, I want to play, LeBron says I want to play on your team.

He does want to play on my team because we just signed him in Philly. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's very literal for you then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always say, does that, but like my personal, like, obsession over Gary V's content

was just always like, I like his, I like the marketing and business advice, but like the life stuff. You know, he always says, hey, I think somebody asked him on the street, like, what's your best, you know, advice to like get going? He's like, you're going to die. And that was his advice to somebody. And just that one line was like, damn, why wouldn't you do it? You won't exist at some point, right? And all this life advice about always posting, always like chasing your dreams, always about like, you can make less money

doing what you love rather than go chase some like traditional path, make more money, but be miserable. And so just watching stuff every day, I get pumped up on the stairmaster or whatever I'm doing or like listen to his audiobooks while running, all that kind of stuff. And then I've always wanted to work at VaynerMedia or like with VaynerMedia at some point. And then, but that turned into something like so much way greater, which is Gary like actually coming on to Dad Gang and being a partner. It's still really tough to process at times. I'm like watching content we've made together. Does he get added to the to the chat? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like we're texting with Gary, all this stuff. And it's like, this is amazing, but you, you should also be ready for it.

If you're going to, if you're going to hope you work with Gary V one day, careful because it might happen. And so you should probably be ready for that moment. And now it's, you know, we're at the stage where we're like just working together, talking about ideas, launching things together, um, talking about V friends and like collecting cards and all the stuff. So it's like, It's surreal, but at the same time, it's like, all right, you're supposed to be here. So don't, don't like fan out over it too hard. It's time to work, you know? So this is a true partnership.

He's involved. He has a seat at the table. He is adding his expertise and knowledge to the. Yeah. It's been cool too because he's, uh, I love to hear that by the way. Because you never know. You read the press release and so I'm, that's, that's no. For sure.

Yeah. Him and his brother are amazing too. Yeah, I love AJ. Go above and beyond for, awesome, for the people they, work with. I've been to those offices. The whole talk about culture, you talk about community. Yeah, it's pretty sweet. Well, that's been, that was the thing too is, you know, Bart E.J. and I sat down before and we grabbed a piece of paper and we went to create a list on if we were to ever take on like another partner, you know, outside investment into the company to help take it to

the next level. Who would we, you know, have on that list and what order would they be in? And the list was one. And it was Gary. And that was well before. we even got approached with the opportunity, you know, and it's, he's just so genuine, he's so authentic, he's so real, he's incredible when it comes to community. And if we can reach more doors and reach more families and impact, you know, the foundations that are being built in homes to give kids the best opportunity to become who they're becoming in a safe place with, you know, you know, loving parents, you know, whether they're together or separate, but just to continue to reach more homes in a positive way. He's the guy. And he's been the one to, I've, like, there's always been in my

heart that I felt like I was never made for a nine to five. And I've always preached about it through my entrepreneurial journey. You know, I've had many nine to fives to make ends meet for sure. But it's just been in my heart where I've always wanted to build something, be something more than showing up to work Monday through Friday. And so I've always been vocal about that. always been so vocal about, well, just do it. You know, go sell your TV instead of being on your couch. Go hit those garage sales. Don't worry about what anybody says.

You know, why would you even worry about what this guy says from high school online? Like, fuck them. Just get to work and keep going. Like, if this is what you want to do, do it. And so I've, I live for, you know, since college on with that same mentality. And so to kind of be sitting here after all these years and all the failure, years and all of the lessons and everything to sit there and shake his hand. It was really fucking cool.

Who made the first move? Did you guys reach out to him or he reached out to you or how did that? You had known each other. I'm just fascinated by the art of the deal. Yeah, there's a lot of like mutual stuff that had been happening already. I've been to the like before Dad Gang and all these things. Like I've been to the Vayner offices also. And that wasn't like the start of this.

But it was like there's some friendships that had like been formed along the way. And then as we started Dad Gang, we also worked with VaynerSports. And that's all AJ, his brother. And so we worked with a couple athletes there, Joanne Johnson on the Saints and Justin Turner. And so we've been working with those guys. And I think just like we instantly have this like awesome groove of working together. They kind of moved how we moved, even though they're massive company. And so through those partnerships, yeah, AJ hit us up and was asking like,

hey, what do you think of Gary getting a little more involved? And that was Gary speaking to him. Yeah. But it was just so organic. We, you know, it took some time to knock things out, but just so organic, no pressure. Everything feels great, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it was them just kind of exploring if we wanted to do more and then we did more. I think there's two types of people in the world.

There's people that resonate with Gary's content. There's people that do not. Yeah. I resonate. I mean, the whole idea. The biggest thing for me is. is not caring about what other people think about you. Yeah.

Yeah. Because at the end of the day. He's got to be like top guy for that message. It's a big one. Yeah. And I'm a victim of it. Yeah. If I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, I'll think.

I was on another podcast, marketing podcast and like, I haven't even seen the episode. I don't know if it came out. But I like got into it with a guy over not caring what people think of. He's like, you have to though, a little bit. I'm like, yeah. Yes. Sure. Like you should care what like your.

wife thinks of, you know, like, why you're running at five in the morning because the kids are screaming. Like, there's little things, of course. But like from a goal chasing life improvement standpoint, you do have to block out everything. And even down to like your grandma, your parents, your parents will, they say a lot of stuff that you try because they're trying to protect you. But at the same time, if your vision is on something that you know you can accomplish, you have to block it out.

It's not like, fuck off. It's, I'm just so locked in on this goal that I have to block out all the noise. And he's just like, oh, what are you? You're going to lease this vehicle to look a certain way to impress somebody that you've never, like, truly met and people on the internet that you don't even talk to? It's like, damn, he is so right. He's so right. You're just PRing yourself for other people. And that's what if you're on your deathbed?

You're like, I did really good at impressing others. Nobody wants to say that. And the true humility comes from you, myself, whoever it is being willing to admit that, like to acknowledge that. Yeah. For me, the goal is to not give a shit what people think. If I do that 80% of the time or 80% well, then I'm going to be in a pretty good spot. Yeah.

Certainly there's going to be moments where I... Right. Especially as a father, you want your kids to think of things of you too. So I want to finish just talking a little bit more. And congratulations, guys. It's awesome. Thank you so much. I'm a fan of the brand now, and I'm going to be rooting for you guys, and hopefully we can stay in touch.

I just want to focus or double click on the community piece a little bit because it keeps coming up. Masculinity, the way the world sees men, the way the world teaches us to be. How is your community helping combat those old ideas that were programmed into a lot of us? And I don't care who takes it. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just to be, you know, without having to worry. like you got to be super masculine or you don't you know like just be you you know and whatever that is i do think there are certain parts of fatherhood that make you feel like you have to be masculine or tough you know masculine is kind of a funny word these days but just to give you an example and i talked

about this on a on a previous podcast but to me it's big and it's it shows you what fatherhood like as a dad or a new dad what life all already does to you and what it's trying to ingrain into you. And what I mean by that is when my wife had my most recent son, who's one, he's about 14 months, when we were checking out of the hospital, you know, women go through so much. And so I'm not saying this to take anything away

from what women are receiving at the hospital because they need all the resources. They need all the support. They need all the attention. They need that there for them because their body has just gone through something, you know, very, very powerful. And so they, when we're checking out, though, there's a pamphlet. And the pamphlet has, hey, if you're feeling this way, call this number. Here's a small support group of women that meet

on these days. You can call this number. Need help breastfeeding, this number. If your baby experiences this, you know, while you're doing this, call this number. Be sure to come back in for, you know, if you see this sign, we want you to schedule an appointment. So there's, you know, a very strong support around mothers, as there should be, as there should be. As there should be. right and not to take anything away from that but when i grabbed the car seat to walk out i realized there was not one thing for dad not one thing and so in that moment what does that tell you as a man figure it out figure it the fuck out be tough be tough be masculine that give me 10 push-ups you know what i'm saying no i mean that but that life nobody does that

designed that to say, oh, go be masculine now. It's just been ignored. And it's not there. So in that moment, you're carrying your brand new child, so precious. You get a pamphlet of, you know, you had just done, you got excited with the pregnancy, you did the baby shower, you did the gender reveal, everything's exciting. Now baby's here. And now all of a sudden that came in, hey, here's a whole pamphlet, you know, for you, mom. Okay, now I got to make sure my wife's okay. I got to make sure the baby's okay. Okay, I got to make sure, you know, the home's okay. You know, everything.

But there's not one resource for dad in that moment. And so to me, life is already telling you, go be tough. Go be tough. So there is masculinity there. Just naturally, you have to go be tough. You know, you have to go figure it out. You have to go find your support. You have to go search, you know, I think it would be awesome,

is what if there was like maybe a dad-gang pamphlet at hospitals? That's awesome. And they would be able to give that to the dad and say, hey, pops. You got to do it. You didn't do it. Browse through this. Coming soon. If you see your, you know, if you see your wife going through this or maybe you notice

her this, this is a good way you could support her. That's not taking away anything from mom's resources, but that's empowering a dad to help your wife or your partner go through those times. If you recognize this, oh, you can, you can actually do this to help her, you know, and just giving dad a little something just to take away from the hospital to add to helping build that strong foundation at home during the most pivotal moment your family has probably ever been through, you know, the most life-changing moment, you know, for your family. I think that would be awesome. There's also just on the on the men's toughness mental health note we work with a retailer named purpose bill and they host a

golf tournament every single year around men's mental health and and speaking up and like asking for help and just being able to like put that away and be vulnerable and kind of like speak to your brothers speak to speak to a therapist about the things you're struggling with and this tournament is awesome. It's all like blue collar workers, oil rigs, uh, HVAC guys, electricians, plumbers like and these guys like sit in a room fully tatted. Some of them are like bikers and they just sit down and like on the on the outside. Yes, they do look like very tough dudes. I would not want to mess with any of them. They are. They are very tough and and but at the same time they like get to go to this golf

tournament and voice that because they've lost friends. Um, they've had buddies commit suicide because they didn't maybe call that one day because they didn't have that conversation. My grandfather killed himself and he didn't say a word to anybody on like the demons he was dealing with. And so it's like just be vulnerable, ask for help. It's okay to soften up and get help because staying in isolation or like you said, looking for vices or just escapism in general is not safe for your mental health, your physical health. And so, like, we love working with purpose bill and those guys because they, like, they go into like the toughest industries and voice that.

They voice being vulnerable, looking for help, being a man and not being afraid to like, just ask for help. And so our community, like, we want to push that as much as possible. And that private Facebook group is like, that's why it's there. Please ask your questions. Like, we want to be able to help. And so, like, grants said with the pamphlet or the group. We're just trying to build way more of that.

Yeah. My thing about men's mental health that's often misunderstood from my seat is that both things can be true. I can be a tough, badass, son of a bitch that runs a company and does all the things that I love to do on a daily basis and can take a fastball off the head and sprint the first base kind of shit, you know? And not or end in my weakest moments, I'm going to cry. I'm going to ask for help.

I'm going to call my small circle of other men and let them know exactly where I am. And it doesn't mean that all that stuff I mentioned on the front end is not true. In fact, it probably reinforces the fact that I'm tough because asking for help, as you guys know, is one of the toughest things we can do. Absolutely. Yeah, just put it away. Whatever that is that like you think I'm not going to ask for. for help because it makes me a, B, C, whatever.

Well, that's why I was sold to have you guys on. Because, you know, of course, we talk about substance abuse and we tell a lot of stories of recovery on this podcast, but your movement is more generalized and it applies to a lot more people. So I'm grateful that your message is out there. Are you doing? And then I'm going to end with the wives because we got to hear about how the wives support all this.

I should have led with the wives for your guys sake. We'll edit it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any formal kind of support groups or meetups? Or have you guys done some in IRL events or is that coming? It's coming. Okay. Yeah, but dads in that Facebook group have joined communities.

Like, hey, I live in this part of Atlanta. Do are there any other dads in here? Oh, I'm 20 minutes out from there. Okay. Then they get together. Yeah, we saw an Atlanta meetup not too long ago. Yeah. Like there's posting the group, hey, anybody in this area?

And then like a week later, we just get a selfie of like 10 dads. Yeah, that have never met. Yeah, we didn't organize it, which is like almost way better. Yeah. Because you're like without effort, these guys want to get together in real life. But yeah, like purpose bill is probably that golf tournament is one thing. We've done other things, but yeah, definitely need to do more. There's an altruism.

There's an altruistic feeling to everything that you guys are doing, which is you don't really want the fame. You don't really want the acknowledgement. you do it to push the brand out there further and realize that it's a part of the whole puzzle. Yeah. And your community is taking it where it needs to go, which is cool. Yeah, think of like the strongest army in the world would probably be all the dads in the world banning together and fighting for each other to have their home win to protect their kids. Like if I could look at him knowing he's a dad and he's out there shoulder to shoulder with me for his family. And I'm out there shoulder to shoulder.

And then there's other dads in our Facebook group who are out there for their family. And we all can just look at each other and be like, you're doing this for your family. Yep. And you just have like, you know what? I want you to win. I want you to win. I love that. You know, that'll be that'd be one strong, strong army right there.

Yeah. For sure. Wives. We got them. Were they supported from the, were they supported from the? the beginning were they like you guys are a little bit crazy i'll start yeah my my wife rachel has just been my anchor she has i've gone all in since day one she met me all in you know knowing that i was going to be shooting for my dreams you know and i was going to go and and i didn't even know what that

looked like at that time you know but 12 years ago you know she she jumped on that journey with me and there's highs and lows all the way through that you You know, money comes. Money's completely gone. You know, like she was taking, she was taking a bus down to cut hair when she was pregnant with her firstborn and taking it back. And I was picking her up at the bus stop and bringing her home, you know. And so she's been along this ride with me.

And she's been very supportive. She's always believed she's been my number one supporter through all of it. And so she has never wavered. And that's difficult to do when you have, you know, you make a family. And then you kids in school. And then, you know, like, okay, you got to keep. trusting and she's always like trust in my heart and trust in my vision without being able to see it. So yeah.

And you're here right now. Yeah. You're sitting here right now. Yeah. And there are kids and responsibilities being taken care of. Correct. And she, yeah, she is the freaking best. So.

Yeah. My wife Jacqueline, just same thing. I, uh, I always tell her like, because she gets to like stay at home with the kids now and doesn't work, which is the craziest. job ever like it's so much harder than than you know even us before it happened we're like oh you get to stay home and be with the kids it's it's it's another if you know you know moment because it's a lot of work and um but for her she yeah same thing she's always been there always supportive there's like this pivotal moment where like dad gang was was going a little bit like had a little bit

emotion already and but i was still working somewhere else and we closed on her home and she's pregnant with our second child and with Max, our son. And the day we close on her home, I get laid off from my job. So it couldn't have like, you know, I'm looking at God like, bro, what is this one? You know? And like I'm going to the office to sign on my home and then I get called into a random Tuesday meeting, never a good thing.

And they were just like, it was a company that had some outside funding and it wasn't like a performance layoff. It was just more like they're slashing the company and I have to lay off seven people and you've been here for two months, but you got to go. I was only there for two months. So as I'm driving to the to the like underwriting office or whatever it's called, I don't have a job. And I'm signing on a house. And in that moment, I could have like internally combust it. from the kid on the way house no job trying to keep it together and she's like whatever you've got this like hearing that is just like goosebumps war pain on like let's fucking go because

for your wife like i'm looking at her like can please worry with me and she's like no you've got this i know you and to hear that is and please otherwise if you're not doing this like leave a little post-it note on your husband's desk everyone once in a while, like, I'm proud of you or I love what you're doing for our family. Like that little note can change your year. It can change everything for you. And so Jacqueline already knows like, I can't even like be demotivated around her because she'll just be like, oh, something bad happened.

Whatever. You've got this. So she's always been there. Two kids. Got another one on the way. Congrats. Thank you. So yeah.

But even through that, you could just. you could so easily just sit there and mope and think that it's over. And when you have a partner that can be like, no, whatever, you got this. That's the most powerful thing. Yeah, Lindsay, E.J.'s wife, same thing. She is so awesome just for E.J., just his biggest supporter, biggest, you know, person in his corner. And so between Rochelle, Jacqueline and Lindsay, they're just incredible. They might be the secret sauce.

Yeah, seriously. They're just the best anchors, the biggest support. They just, you know, love us so much. And, and it's just cool for them to be able to share these moments as well. I think just one little thing. One thing that people like don't speak on is there's also conflict. I've had a conversation about this. There's conflict when it does work too.

When your dream does pan out and you're busier and things are growing. And like your partner could resent you for that. So you got to be, you got to be supportive on both ends because sure you can have somebody supports you when you're down and out. But what if it does work? Now you're successful, you're busy, you're moving,

you've got other priorities. Is the support there still? There can be resentment, jealousy. Like I talked to another guy, he's like, my, like,

I'm really busy, but my wife doesn't really like it, but I'm doing my own thing. And it's like, you got to have both. Because if you're going to support me when I'm down, you better, you better support it when it works too.

I'm with it. It'll be a validation. Yeah. And, truly rooting for others, truly wanting to watch others succeed. One last just question, outside of the three of you, who's been the most influential person in Dad Gang? God.

God. For sure. The most. Yeah. Easy, simple. Yeah, he's there. All right, we'll close with this. My mantras keep going.

I've lived by that for many, many years. I'll start with you, Bart. Why do you keep going? Because you're going to die. just right back to Gary Vee. That simple. Yeah. I'm a kid from Poland immigrated here out of like project buildings in Poland at seven years old.

So the fact that this is life now, you have like you have to keep going. I wouldn't want to stop this. It's like sometimes feels like it's not real. So to. And your kids are watching. That's the other big thing is like you better keep going because dad does not give up. And neither will you. So you have to kind of instill that early.

A lot of gratitude from you. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah, so much gratitude, man. Like, it's for me, I always say, you know, you never know when you're going to go. And so my biggest goal on keeping going and showing up every single day is to build that foundation that my kids now is a part of their daily routine. It's not something that has to be learned. And so if I can set them up the best that I can because I could be gone tomorrow, hopefully not.

knock on wood, you know, but that's just how life is. And you can live so much more freeing with that understanding, not worrying about it, just going, just living, really soaking up all life's biggest blessings, beautiful moments. I talk about it all the time, living the dream, chasing the dream. You have to understand, like, even if you have $5 in your account, you don't have it figured out, you know, there's still so many blessings in life that you got to learn to appreciate. And that's something that over all of the years that I've found, you know, success and failures, I've stayed true to just really loving life at whatever stage that that is at. And if you can love the daily routines, you can understand like, shit, like nature is so

beautiful. People are so amazing. You can make somebody's day go through a grocery store, crack a joke with the cashier, you know, and just boom, that little moment. Huge blessing. You know, like we can't take those for granted. I was actually in a grocery store that's full of food that I am shopping to bring home. And there's another human being here.

happy to help me. Another person happy to beg these. I have an interaction with them walking to a parking lot where a car is parked. That's all a big fucking blessing. You know, you got to appreciate that. And that is kind of what opens the door for bigger blessings to come. So for me, to keep going is to keep experiencing that, keep building that foundation, keep loving life. Yeah, I remember one of my, I love there where you started one of my early mentors.

I was smoking at the time and I was, you know, a couple months sober. He's like, you got a pack of cigarettes. I was like, yep, he's got a roof over your hip. Yep. You got food. Yep. He's like, you're going to be all right. Wake up tomorrow and get done.

You know, like, it's just, yeah. It's important to remember those early days when there is $5 in the in the bank account. Yeah. All right, Bart, we'll let the marketer take this one. How do we, how do we join the movement? How do we find you guys? Do you think? Well, wow, well, wow, wow.

Dadgang.com is our website at Dadgangang. Co is our Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and Facebook. Type in Dad Gang into Instagram search bar. We kind of dominate the feed there at this point. It's just your algorithm is going to change. You're going to see a lot of ads with me and Granting them. But yeah, all at Dadgang.com. If you'd like a hat, free shipping on three or more hats.

And then, yeah, that's about it. Yeah. Yeah. You can give us your email. We'll bombard you with Hat News and valuable info. for dads. Well, I'm grateful to spend this time with you. I'm grateful that you guys shared some time with me truly. It's meaningful. That's what I think about when I have people come in here. Like, you're giving time to this show and to me and to our audience. So thank you for that. And I just love

your guys' energy. I'm rooting for you. Thank you. We appreciate you for having us and all the work that you're doing and helping lives like every single day, you know. And so I hope, I hope you know you're doing God's work as well and it's incredible to know that people are out there like you who are giving back and helping save lives. I believe that. Yeah, another blessing, right? We could not be having a cool conversation right now. That's right.

Yeah. And let us know how we can help too. Yeah. We will. We will. All right, Dad Gang, we're out. Awesome. See ya.

Peace.