The Zac Clark Show - Father’s Day Special | Doug Clark (Zac’s Dad)

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Father’s Day SpecialThis week, Zac sits down with his dad, Doug Clark, for a powerful Father’s Day conversation—joined by Jay, who brings his own experience as a son and a father to the table. Together, they unpack what it means to show up for family, especially when love gets tested.From Zac’s baseball days and early signs of addiction to arrests, rehabs, recovery, and rebuilding trust, this episode explores the messy, beautiful reality of fatherhood and resilience. Zac and Doug speak candidly about the impact of Zac’s substance use disorder on their family, how their relationship changed, and the slow, hard process of coming back together through recovery. Doug also opens up about grief, aging, loyalty, and the pain of watching a child struggle—while Zac reflects on how his father’s refusal to give up saved his life.Through every twist and turn, this conversation makes clear: addiction is a family disease—and there’s no playbook, no quick fix. But underneath it all is a father and son doing their best to keep going. What holds them together is honesty, shared history, and a bond that’s been tested and rebuilt.Happy Father’s Day to all the dads.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right, so we are back here on the Zach Clark show, and by far my favorite guest to date, because we have my dad here, Doug Clark, and I don't even know how to introduce him. He's wearing a suit. I got notes here. I don't even know why I need notes. It's my dad. I mean, I probably come up with some good questions to ask him. But, you know, here we are.

And I want to start by saying, I love you. Dad, thanks for being here. I love you, too, son. very much. Yes, I do. We've been at this thing for a while, and I still, it's funny because I still walk into this interview and I'm like, I just don't want to get emotional. You know, like, that's just our human nature. I don't want to cry. I don't want to show vulnerability. And in a lot of ways, that's like something that I've gotten more comfortable sharing with the world once I got

sober, you know, it's okay to be vulnerable. I don't know. When you said to me, you said, I want to have my dad on, why now? We've talked about it before. There's a couple reasons. One is I feel like the world right now could really use some wisdom from people like my dad who have seen a lot of life, seen a lot of different political leaders and a variety of really good days and really bad days

and probably have some good insight into what's happening right now in the world. I think my dad's really smart and I think that he has a lot to offer, not just, you know, his company and our family and his friends, but so there's that reason. And then I just, you know, my dad said something to me. You know, you said something that's really stuck with me.

And maybe we'll start here in that, like, as you've gotten older, you've started to feel a little bit more lonely because some of your friends are not here anymore. And I've tried to take on, you know, some of that and in our friendship. And so what has that been like? I mean, you know, your best friend Mike Dunn, you know, past a few years back and, you know, we can't avoid the grave. Like, how are you dealing with that today? I mean, that comment really stuck with me.

Well, I would have to say, first of all, it's not just Mike Dunn that has left this world in the last couple years, but two of my best friends in life passed over Thanksgiving weekend two years ago. And my other friend is in a situation where he, is dealing with, you know, the loss of mind kind of thing. So it's the four closest people in my life, really, when you think about it. And so I think the thing that has left a tremendous void in my life right now and friends like Shelley are in Haddonfield and that type of thing

is that, you know, friends are people you, can sit down and talk to and really be open and honest and a friend will tell you well you're dead wrong on that one buddy and you know you step back and go oh if he says i'm dead wrong i maybe i am dead wrong and so that's that's what you miss because acquaintances won't tell you like it is they won't because they don't know you well enough and so I mean the thing you said to me is I just don't have anyone to talk to

that's it bottom line yeah that's that's it in a nutshell Zach yeah and it's interesting because when we look at the mental health numbers right now it's young men that are struggling and then it's older men that are struggling

right their mental health because like what you just said and yeah you know I'm a big proponent of therapy and all that stuff and I just I feel like you even just sharing that is going to help people who are in your same situation.

Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, well, it's just a fact of life, right? What do they call it? Last Man Standing kind of thing. Were you always that way? Like, you know, earlier in your life, you know, had other men around that you had strong friendships?

I've always, I would say to you in my lifespan, And going through grammar school, I had a very close friend, John Hopkins. And then when I got to college, I had a very close friend. Robbie Backel. And so I'd have to answer that question, yes. I have had what I would call a true close friend throughout, you know, the life passage. Yeah.

I'm just thinking about like my father who you know I wish he had closer relationships with other men because I feel like he tends to like carry the weight of the world himself you know and I just you know obviously has a relationship with my mom but I still think you know I'm married myself I still think there are things that not that you aren't completely open and transparent with your partner it's just that when you're going to the problem to someone who maybe is involved in the problem it's just harder to talk about it in an open way where you can be more vulnerable and honest about like you know this is what's going on and I'm scared you know and I think having other men in your life as you go through

the journey is important well it is and I think I could say this about every one of those men that I just talked about and particularly the ones in you know my later years and you know adult mature years you know we're really truly friends and you could talk to them and they'd get you through the tough times and the good times you know it was both and you know they would pump you up when you needed to be pumped up like you know this will pass you'll get by this and you know it just so happens that I have one of those individuals right now that I've become pretty close with in in Naples and I'm in the process of getting a loan that's going to transition the business kind of thing.

And he sat in front of a bank. He introduced me to a banker, and this is what a friend does too, right? He said to the banker, and they got to the three Cs of banking like characters number one, right? So I want to tell you about the character of this guy that's sitting next to me. If you guys don't give him the loan, I will. And we're talking $4 million is what we're talking about. So it's not, you know, that's what friends really, really do. You know, and so I've been blessed. I have been blessed my whole life, having those kind of folks around me.

Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that you hold so near and dear to your heart is the way that you, like you grew up in this town, Elmer, New Jersey, and it was a simple, simple existence growing up, right? I mean, can you talk a little bit about the way that you grew up? I mean, you lost your parents at a pretty young age, right? I mean, or... Oh, I was 30. I mean, that's young.

I mean, they were both 52, you know, when they passed separately. I wasn't in an accident or anything. My mother passed three years after my dad did, but, yeah, they were both at 52 years old. But coming back to your question, I would have to start by just saying one thing that I am that has been a blessing and maybe sometimes been a little bit of a curse. I am an outlier. I've been an outlier my whole life, you know, whether it was in grammar school or what I

lived in Elmer, New Jersey. I was a, my parents moved from Florida up here. We live with my grandfather. and everybody around me was a farmer. They would go out shooting, hunting on Hunting Day and November and all these other kind of things. And I was an outlier. You know, there was, I didn't fit the mold of all the kids. I didn't go to future farmers of America and high school and those kinds of things.

So it was an outlier then, and as I grew up, everything along the way, I was an outlier going to college because who went to the University of Miami from Elmer, New Jersey and I came home one the first time from college on Christmas break and

I had dyed my hair yellow and blonde and I had brought home these different clothes that nobody, I wasn't wearing jeans I was wearing tight peg pants and and I can remember this to this day

you know a couple of my friends came knocking at the door and dad said is dug hum you know i hear he's back from miami yeah the blonde bombshells asleep still in this bedroom yeah i could hear him say that and so but it's been through my business career and everything else so um yeah but do you think that was how did you pick miami yeah is that a is that a pg's let's i know the story you know the story Oh, well, you know, I was, I was, I didn't go directly to college, and so I was working, and my dad sold the gas station to another gentleman in the town, and I stayed there and I said, man, this is okay. I'm not going to go, I don't have to go to college. I go drag racing at night and, you know, go out and have a couple pops and all that kind of stuff. Life was good. Until one hot summer day, I had a school bus on the lift. I forgot to not lift up. up on the lift but just on the lift so I get it underneath it with a creeper to drain the oil and I forgot to block the jack back wheels and it drifted off the lift and almost hit a car on the fuel island and that could have really been a really problem so that that day I went up to the drug

store to get something and there was the playboy issue that had the top 10 playboy schools and I said maybe it's time to move on so I picked the top top three. And I picked University of Arizona, University of Colorado, University of Miami. I don't know whether it was in that order. And I picked Rutgers as a safe school, which would be known as a safe school today. I got accepted to the three, but I didn't, I got turned down by Rutgers. My grades weren't that good. The next decision was, okay, what's closest? Miami was only 1,300 miles away versus out west. So that's how I picked my college. But do you think you, because you're talking about being an outlier, which, you know, to bring it back to

addiction and, and substance use, a lot of people, I mean, I certainly felt like I didn't really belong, yet I belonged, you know, like, and a lot of that was internal, not necessarily on paper. Do you think, I mean, you moved from Florida to a small town, you sort of felt like an outsider you were a young person, but do you think you always sort of had like an entrepreneurial mind or like I'm going to go somewhere and do things and see the world? No, I don't think that was it at all. I really don't. I think what I created some good things and some bad things in me as a human being, okay?

I think there was fear, the fear that I wouldn't be accepted, right? And fear that I would fail or, you know, that kind of fear. But it also sort of made me work hard, you know, to make sure I was accepted. But it also created sort of a risk-taking attitude that I never lost. Even today, I'm still taking business risk that most people wouldn't take at this point in their lives. And so I think it created this attitude of, you know, I think it's the right thing to do. I'm going to do it and live with a decision and not, you know, I don't look back. Who instilled that in you, though?

Because that's something that I would always, when I would explain my dad to people, I would say he's one of the more honest guys I've ever met and he's one of the more loyal guys I've ever met. Was that your parents? Was that growing up where you grew up? Is that, those principles, where did that start for you? I think it was two things. I think it was my dad and my mom, without a question. They were the most honest people.

They didn't drink. They didn't party. They worked hard. She worked in an emergency room and became the superintendent of nurses in this very small Elmer Community Hospital. And my dad was just a hard worker. He built two houses that we lived in And there was one time I remember

We had a big storm came through And he just put the foundation And can picture him putting brick on top of brick And we came back And it all caved in And he never showed remorse or anything Why did this happen to me? No, he just said, okay

It happened I go back and put the foundation back up again So I'd have to say it was my parents but I also have to say Norm Robinson had a big impact on my life. Norm Robinson was the troop master of Troop 60,

Boy Scouts. And Boy Scouts were the only thing we had. We didn't have anything other than that as young kids. And it was the life we, you know, and he was a kind of guy that just made it so significant.

He would, we would do turkey dinners where we'd be the waiters and the town would come in and buy the tickets and we went to philmont new mexico and he took us out there and it was just a tremendous and then the jamboree was going to be held in valley forge in 1956 and here again i have all these my friends right and he sends me to shift boy scout training camp in northern New Jersey it doesn't exist now where I had my first taste of leadership training and he made me the leader of our troop when we went to the jamboree in valley forge so you know that's that's sort of the that outlier kind of conversation I just I think it's important

to understand that I don't follow the crowd all the time you know I just I go my own way and And that's including, you know, there's these beautiful apps in the year 2025 called Ways and MapQuest or Maps. And my dad likes to find his own ways to places. We call that Doug Jistics for anyone listening. You know, there's a way that it says this is going to be the surest way. He likes to chime in and say, but what do we think about it this way? And the whole family has learned to just say, let's go dad's way. Yeah, I think it's a generational epidemic.

So you go to Miami, you come back. back, you start working, CPA, accountant, Drexel Burnham. Why did you leave Miami though? Excuse me? Why did you leave Miami after school? That's a great question. There's a real answer for that. When I, again, another outliner, one of the, all my friends said, don't take Ms.

Zuckowski for accounting. Actually, when I got to Miami, they said, well, what courses you want to take? I said, I don't care just so I don't have to take an English, a foreign language. And they said, well, the only place that is is a business school, so you go into the business schools. I went into the business school, Ms. Lukowski was a Spencer that taught cost accounting. And everybody said, avoid her. Avoid her because she's tough and she gives too much work and all this other stuff.

Bad reputation. Well, it worked out that I had to take her because it was a, the way my schedule worked out how to take her she befriended me and um at that time florida there was only one national firm that would was allowed to practice accounting in florida and i i think it was huskins and sales haskins and everybody else none of the big eight could come into florida and practice because they had this grandfather rule that protected all the local accounts right so she in uh without me no it again, called her contacts at Pricewaterhouse, Philadelphia, and she was well respected by

the accounting firms because of she gave good classes. My friends thought it was avoided, but for the wrong reasons. And so she got me into Pricewaterhouse gave me a shot. And of the, there was an available, I've told Zach this story too. So there's 35 big recruiting class, 35 new accountants coming into the Philadelphia office of Pricewaterhouse. And after we did a 30-day training, we'd go back to the office and there was a thing called the available room. And so you were picked as, you know, when a job came up and the senior or whoever, decided they'd pick from the available room it's sort of like the you know the drafts yeah yeah right and and why we were waiting there all we passed the time with was playing battleship

well there was down to two and the guy was picked and I was the last one I had nobody to play a battleship with the but yeah you're the last pick I was the last pick wow that's crazy I mean the whole story is last pick of the draft I'm just thinking that you know I I know we're going to get into it, though, that you've gone on and have a very successful business career. And you go to college, and you're like, I just don't want to take a foreign language. Where do I go to do that? And they say, go over to the business school. And that, like, sends you on a trajectory, you know, that helps make your life, you know.

Well, I think, and part of what I think we've heard is that timing plays an awful important part of it. life timing and it really does and so the timing of moving to Price-Witterhouse and then then putting me on a job called Drexel Hirman Ripley where as a junior all I did was go down to the basement and count securities when they did the audit but then this gentleman who was running the whole operations the back office operations gentleman by them of Jack Rich for some reason he saw something in me and he hired me away from Pricewaterhouse and from there was

you know that's that say your career that changed my whole career I knew I knew I wasn't going to be a partner at a Pricewaterhouse I was too there you're strict

you know so yeah Taipei even today frustrates me with legal and accounting regulations and all that stuff. It's just... You and me both. We have a problem with rules and authority. You know, particularly

when it comes to common sense kind of stuff and it's just, you know, it drives me crazy. But, you know, so it's, that's sort of that, that just being at the right place, at the right time. And so

eventually I became at that organization, which is now known as Drexel Burnham because they bought Drexel Harmon-Ripley. At one time, I was the youngest board member, 28 years old, on this blue-blood investment banking firm in Philadelphia, New York, nationwide, responsible for all of the operations. And it just, you think about it. And then one day, Paul Miller, who was the president, called me into his office, and he said, and he was also the head of the trustees at the University of Penn in the Wharton School. And he said, Doug, we have this guy.

He's going to be great, but we just don't know what the hell to do with him today. So, you know, it was a paper crisis on Wall Street. So I said, so he said to me, maybe he could help you. And his name was Mike Milken, who became an icon. in the whole financial world and it is today and talk about a guy giving it back i mean he's really giving it back and uh and big time to you know all kinds of uh all kinds of things mostly in the cancer world but he gives he gives back yeah tremendous yeah it's wild the people we meet on the journey um all right so i want to get into the clerks here yeah yeah

the clarks here yeah yeah you meet my mom in what year rexie's bar Was your first date? No, it was my good friend Roger who set you guys up. Well, he met Mom that, you know, I worked it in Philadelphia and there was a bar next to the

office and that's where he met Mom. And he introduced you guys. Yeah, because he was married and he said, well, you know, I have this guy, he's not married. He's a race car driver and all this other kind of blue

smoke and so you know that's we just go back there for a second though with the race car driving because I heard drag racing back in New Jersey was that was his dream the race the Indy 500 he did it I mean we have VHSs and my dad's car is wrecking he like tell the people

I mean you were an indie or so yeah you were yeah tell us you mean on what the race well you were a kid you said you were drag racing so what's that like a Friday night like down the road we're racing for 50 bucks It was Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, was he?

Okay. Because we had this little road on the long side of this street in pole tavern. That's where we spent our job. The pole tavern rebel rods. Yes, the pole tavern road rods. Yeah, that was a club we established. So you were drag racing and the kids today are vaping. I mean, I guess it's similar, you know.

Both, both risky. Yeah, one's a little bit more exciting. But then you got a professional race car driving. I mean, that was self-funded. Well, yeah, and I would, you know, I'd go try and get advertisements from, and I had some pretty good advertisements, advertisers. I had scold before it became really famous and with NASCAR, but. So how old are you when you're doing this?

I started racing at 30, 32. Wow, all right. Yeah, that was too old. Most of the good race drivers are already, they're go-carts and they keep going up. Uh-huh. Yeah, it was like starting golf at 30. it's too late you know yeah but you made it pretty far i did i got to the uh you know if you look at a triple a ball is uh i got triple a ball and the next step was the majors it would have

been indy car racing i ral and dreddy and r ari lindyke and all those guys i raced against those guys in the series that was we raced every weekend that the indy cars raced and i raced every track that the indy cars race whether it was long beach island road of Michigan right Michigan yeah all over so do you are you are you balancing your professional light like you know your you're you know the finance what what you're doing are you have kids are you like how are you well at that point I had my own business uh-huh and it was a truck dealership and a truck leasing and rental and I was also running a national association called

Amtrales, which was a group of independent truck leasing companies, that was really formed to provide reciprocal road service across the United States as well as group purchasing. So, yeah, I was doing that. I was doing all those things and really not doing any of them very good, you know, as a turn. Not, you know, if I had focused maybe, I might have become an IndyCar to race driver, or I might have become a very large leasing company, but, you know, doing all those things and balancing all those, it just... You learned?

I did. I did. Yeah. Every step of the way I learned. Was there a crash that ended the driving? Was there any... Like, when did you stop racing, or do you still race? No, no, I don't, I know.

I stopped when I was... I only had, you know, it was funny. I had a Long Beach Island, Long Beach, Long Beach in California. It was the start of a race, and Michael and Dreddy's cousin was in the race. And he would come out of this hairpin, he blew his engine and he tried to get across, and I ran right into the back of him and broke my foot. But the amazing thing was that was, They helicoptered me out and took me to the hospital on a helicopter, which it wasn't necessary, but that's what they did.

So they put a splint on, and I caught a plane that night and came back to New Jersey. So that was my worst accident. I just have Days of Thunder in my head. Did you ever see that movie, the Tom Cruise movie? Yeah, yeah. It's like, that's my only, that's all I know about racing is Days of Thunder. We've learned. I mean, I appreciate racing just from growing up in, you know, the Indy 500.

and there was years there that stuff was really fun but like everything else in this world it got ruined by league splitting and driver's splitting and then they came back together

and who knows it's IRL or something now but anyway so you meet mom Roger introduces you to mom yes you guys decide to start you get married you decide to start a family

and along came me at some point there about 10 years later yeah you were you were in your early 40s when you had me right that math i don't want to give up too much math here well maybe i you know i think i was in my early 40s and mom was in mid 30s right yeah so yeah and uh what kind of kid was i

that's a great question and um you know because this is where i'm just going to just say this to you um you when you were between eight and let's say 15 or 16 you provided me some of the most joyous moments of my life

and I say that because with Rachel and Matt I was totally involved in the business and when you came along I said well I'm going to take some time out

and you know be a father and you know so we baseball was our connection and all the way through when you went to the American Legion

World Series in Oklahoma all the way and so and I just live my life with you through baseball and we enjoyed sports and we enjoyed going to the Eagles game

so I never suspected at all ever ever that and you probably drank way before I even became aware but I never I thought you know there was one coach I think you had in high school when you were trying to decide what college to go to Snyder and he said well he's a little bit of a wild hair. I didn't know what he meant by that, but I guess he knew more than maybe he was telling me as a high school senior. So anyhow, I don't know whether that answers your question or not. Did you, were you, when you were in high school, were you parting? I mean, was there a bridge starting to happen? Yeah, I mean, like, I think this is what's interesting and fascinating

for parents, right? Parents listen to a lot of parents listen to this show and it's very hard as we kind of shift this episode. We could talk for hours and hours and hours about all of our stuff, our family and our lives and your life. I mean, it's a blessing, but I think it's important for the listeners to have some insight to the father-son relationship as it pertains to substance abuse. And the way that you answered that question is perfect because from those years, eight to 16, we spent a lot of time together. And whether you knew I was drinking or not, everything else I was doing gave you the ability to look past that. Yeah. And that's what I think a lot of parents, a lot of parents deal with. They know that their kids are probably not

doing some things that are so savory, but they're their kids. You know, so you, you coach me in Little League and I'll never forget into kind of like, you know, you get to the big field and now you're playing baseball from like the full distance. And then I go into high school and you kind of stopped coaching me. And yeah, I mean, I started drinking late middle school, early high school. I was coaching you from the stands and that came to a quick call one day when I just yelled out to him. I said, just throw strikes. Don't pay attention. Dad, shut up. No, that's not the actual, the actual story is this. I am, I am, I was a decent pitcher. I mean, like my whole, you were very good. But my shit was this, kind of how I live life today. I would walk the bases loaded

and then I'd strike out the side. I mean, I would just find. myself in these situations that I didn't need to be in, and then I would buckle down and say, bring it on. So in classic exact form, I was having one of these, you know, stretches where I was throwing a lot of balls. And my father, from the sideline, yells, start throwing strikes. Don't forget the guy on third or something like that. I walk, I step off the rubber. Yes, you did. I think I held the ball up and I said, you want to come out here? And like, he's in the stands and the whole you know and that was just kind of the thing and we had our moment and I said I think there were some choice hey mother F or you want to you know come try and throw some strikes you know

because I was I was pissed and I was fiery but it was it was one of those moments we'll never forget I mean that was the end of my coaching career no that's not true I mean you I mean like I was always grateful for that you and mom and I mean like the way that you supported my baseball career was awesome. I mean, those were some of the best memories, but it did shift. It did shift here, and I don't know if you remember this, but when I was, that year, we went to the American Legion World Series.

There was some drinking with the parents that took place. I mean, like, I don't know if you're, but that's with my first and then what that told me is like, it's okay to drink. Because we were, this whole summer, I mean, we were from May through

August. I mean, we were all over the place, Binghamton, New York, Bartlesville, Oklahoma, Gathersburg, Maryland. And you're in hotels every weekend for these, like, mini tournaments. And if I was a starting pitcher and I wasn't pitching the next day, I mean, I would have a couple beers with my parents at night. Same, similar. But a question I have for you and, you know, which could be helpful to people, kids who

are struggling with substances, I mean, to be able to step off the mound in the middle of a baseball game and yell at your dad, obviously you guys were close. you know and now you're starting to drink and maybe do things that you know aren't right or acceptable did that have any guilt did that affect your relationship with your dad or were you starting to pull away a little bit or or no so there was a couple things that happened for me I knew that my dad really loved that I played baseball and I loved it too I also loved drinking and that I always found my drinking getting in the way of me performing at the level that I really think I could have.

And so I felt guilt around that, but I also wasn't willing to put the booze down. And he probably had no, I mean, like in college, right, like we would always have these debates around because I was a starter one year and then I was a reliever. And I was, you know, we would always get pissed at Paul Saikia, who was my college baseball coach for putting me in the bullpen. But that was probably what I should have been doing. like when i'm really looking at it realistically like i'm a lefty i like if i actually want to try and make it past college like being a left-handed specialist or a closure probably suits my

personality better than but no i think that's you know the the wisdom uh i think paul had the wisdom to put you there and uh but i guess my question for you dad is like when did you first question my drinking or did that not even occur until i don't think it really occurred until i was beating over the head with it and because um part of being an outlier i'll come back to that word again is you can put things aside and just focus on what you're focusing on and really I don't know that rationalization is the right word but there's some word out there that says

and your mom says this about me I compartmentalize things and don't let it drag you know I can put them over here and not let it affect any other part of my life right until you know it becomes so overwhelmingly to a point where you have to acknowledge that it's either good or bad kind of thing, right?

And so that's what I think happened in my relationship with you and in terms of my dealing with the drinking issue. I drank as a young kid and I drank a fair amount of beer. I mean, you drank a fair amount of beer with me. I mean, there was, look, I'll cut to the chase here. I graduate college, which was awesome.

Four years, you drove out every, I mean, every game, whether I was due to pitch or not, you were there. I mean, in the black corvette, you were pulling, you'd watch a game when we'd go out to dinner. I mean, some of those meals at Outback, and I mean, like, I hold that shit so close to my heart. You don't even know the memories that I have from, you know, there's 30 guys on a team, 10 parents are coming, and I'm fully aware that you're running a business and mom would come. I mean, it was really special. And so I graduated college and, you know, the baseball thing kind of goes away.

And I think that affected our relationship a little bit. And I got a job, my first job in Concha Hocken in Pennsylvania. And it was being a recruiter that you helped me get the job, Mike Don, who we mentioned earlier in this podcast. And Marty Judge with the judge group out there. And it was a party environment, you know. And like it didn't have to be, but I chose to be a part of that. And then our relationship, I think, rekindled around going to some games. And I remember we got the Phillies tickets.

This is probably, so I graduated college in high school in 2002, college in 2006. The Phillies won the World Series in 08. Yeah. The season before that, in 08, we had these packages where it was, we had a quarter, like, we basically had half the season. And we would go to the games every night. and when we would get up to leave there would be

a 30 pack empty of beers on the and one of us was driving home I mean that's the fact yeah mostly most of the times me I think I had less to lose and so we were party brothers yeah yeah yeah which made it confusing when I finally

came time to get sober yeah I think for you and for me both of us for sure yeah did you feel like you which wouldn't be true but did you feel like oh did I contribute to my son's problem in any way?

I didn't. Good, because I don't think you should. Well, I didn't. Again, I don't look back. Good, bad, indifferent. And

I can't do anything about the past. I can only do what needs to be done for the future, and sometimes that doesn't work out so good. But anyhow, I just have lived my life, you know, with a couple of things that probably my mom taught me more than my dad, but, you know, you're judged by the folks you go out with, you know. And so as I matured, that became very prevalent, and having friends like Mike Don and Dr. Goldberg, and Rich Lunsford and those, you know, it just, it helped me develop as a man and become a better man and those kinds of things.

But, no, I never felt guilt that I did anything wrong because, you know, I didn't have the disease, okay? So I just felt that all of our partying was just a natural thing. There was nothing untoward about it other than the drinking and driving part of it is not good, obviously. But no, I never felt. Well, you also took on this identity, I think, with your friends and our family of being the junkyard dog, which basically meant you would have no problem staying up late and being the last guy standing and waking up, you know, to go to work

or take care of your responsibilities the next day. And I tried to kind of live that as well. Do you remember the brain tumor? I mean, do you remember? Sure, if I do. What do you remember about that? Because that was a pivotal moment. Well, I just remember, you know, the diagnosis.

And when we got that diagnosis, your mom and I, and knowing, and I think Shelly might have really re steered us in the right direction as to who to get to do that. And, I mean, that was traumatic. That was, that was traumatic that, you know, when they're going into the brain and the back of your skull, and then I just remember the pain when you, when we went to your hospital to visit with you and you screaming out at the nurse that, you know, I want more drugs. And then I remember you coming home and being on the couch

and, you know, taking the opiates at that point in time. Never suspecting or never thinking that it would grow into something that it did, obviously. Well, there was no education. Right. No. And I think at that time, I mean, that was a prescribed medicine. Listen, right? I mean, everybody would take it, and I guess it really works strong. I've never had it, so I don't know. But it must work wonders for the pain. And you weren't using opioids at that time.

I mean, I tried them, but I think that was the first time that I used them consistently over a period of time and something in my brain and my body and my soul said I need that. You know, I need those drugs. And, you know, I remember, I mean, I remember it a little bit differently

in the sense that I was feeling sick for a few months leading up to that. And everyone at that point kind of assumed it was just, I was just partying too much. Because I was always, like as a kid, I always had stomach problems. Like, it was all kind of just,

yeah whatever it was i mean i think it was a lot of it had to do with the way that i was living but um it's interesting your perspective because i you know i think there was probably some some other people in my life who started to recognize it before you did mom being one of them oh yeah yeah i think mom had a better grip on it and uh actually um towards the end uh that um when her and Catherine just lived in Florida they wouldn't come home because they are you know so upset with the way I was probably not addressing the issue that you know tough love I wasn't giving tough love I wasn't giving tough love and I think your mom and Catherine saw it Matt saw it I was in denial I was in denial that no it's not

a problem you guys were all overstating it and then that day i took you to the office and we were crossing the speed line and i just yelled at you i said i you're trying to kill me yeah because something happened the night before that was that was your moment where you stepped off the mound and yelled back at me yeah yeah you're trying to you're trying to kill me yeah did you hear that yeah i heard it we were living alone we were just he and i living in the house so the pictures of painted it is yeah so my mom and i mean like my mom and my mom mom and sister are living in Florida. I had been to rehab one time.

I had been married. I'd been to rehab one time. I got out of rehab. I started drinking again. And my wife at the time, Jen, who our family holds no ill feelings towards, she made a decision to leave. But she wasn't actually going to leave.

She made me leave the house we were living in. So I moved back home with my parents at 26 or whatever years old. And I had seen it at, Addiction Psychiatrist, everyone, no one knew what to do. I mean, this is 2010. There's no, we are far more advanced today than we were then. The thing that my dad did really well is you never gave up. You just never gave up.

And for all the things that you can say you did wrong, that was the thing that probably saved my life, if I could say that. So from January of August until August, me and my dad were basically living in my childhood home and he was giving me an it was so screwed up i mean there was like a $20 a day allowance there was he was giving me suboxone you know which was the medication uh you know i had a job i was working for you you know like yeah well i was giving you the medication because after the first rehab this well i was an opio so so suboxone is a i mean without going into the details and and the medical side of it the suboxone basically is a a drug that helps you to not do heroin or

to do opiates. And so my dad was giving that to me every morning so that I could be a functioning human. You can also abuse it and sell it. So there was that element to it too. But yeah, we were driving to work together to the office one day and he pulled over to the side of the road and I've never seen

just you reached your boiling point. Yeah. Yeah. And so then that summer we didn't own the shorehouse so we were due to these two weeks days at the Jersey Shore and I was a mess and so I made my little appearance down at the Jersey Shore in August so this is August of 2011 and the family's there I think my brother had one kid Jack my nephew and so we were still you know whether or not I was drinking or not you know it was always a question when we

sit down to dinner and am I going to order a beer or not and have I ordered the year everyone in the family would freak out you know there was just no playbook on any of this shit and um i left and they probably didn't hear for you probably didn't hear for me for a couple days no what happened well i got arrested yeah what happened was that um well first of all again the whole family my wife was saying he's using why he's here with the kid you know with the grandchildren and i said no he's not doing that he's not doing and so that was the weekend when the Irma or one of the big hurricanes

We had to leave the shore That was on a Thursday night Friday night And the next day it was a Saturday And when we got there There was a voicemail from the Penn Salkin police saying that You know he was arrested and if you want to come and get him

You know come and get him The car was towed away to some place so we went there and I said we're here to pick up I got in a DUI on the side of the road I was parked on the side of the road scratching off lottery tickets doing drugs and drinking

and a cop pulled up on me and I wasn't driving the car actually and they said you're going to jail yeah you were parked in that Gulf River yeah the cough golf thing and so

I said I'm going to go let's go pick him up we go there and walk in and we're here to pick up Zach Clark and he says hey he's gone well who picked him up no he just walked out and they walked to camden uh so i said to my wife i i i just

i'm going to go in the office i'm going to just i got i got i can't deal with this i'm going so in the office phone rings lady from uh camden it's a saturday morning saturday morning lady from camden so i probably got arrested on a wednesday or thursday i think i got a restaurant on thursday you got arrested on thursday because the eagles had a preseason game correct yep yep and a

Friday was when we came back, and Saturday was when we went to pick you up and you were gone, and she called. The bank called his, your son's here trying to cash a check, and I just want to make sure that you're aware of this. I said, can you hold him? Can you hold him there? I'll try, and I walked in. I'll never forget this as long as I live.

Walk in, there he's standing, wait a, and I think you were surprised to see. see me right and uh i said we're going home son we're going home and i was a labor day weekend and we took you i never forget i mean when you put your arm in my arm that was like uh i still today i can't i mean it's like the bank is this big old bank i mean the high ceiling like you know it's not this typical bank right there was a spirit in that room that was undeniable and that was ronda jackson i mean ronda yes called you yeah and she could i I think about she could have had me arrested. Did you feel differently going into that bank, or were you?

I was panicked. I mean, it was a 10-minute drive from my office to that bank, but she called me one time while I was driving. She said, I don't know how much longer I can hold him. I was in a panic. I just wanted to get him. I didn't want him to get away from me, go on the streets of Camden or whatever he was going to do.

that was my that was it was pure panic and when i walked in the bank and saw him i was so relieved so you know that's what that was my reaction and that's when i said you know we're going home and uh we did go home yeah and i think uh it was the start of him coming home yeah i mean that day i'll never and and there's a couple other things that I think are interesting about that story. I've told it so many times, but you decided to go into work on a Saturday. You were sitting at your desk. Right. She called that number.

Yes. What are the chances? Never pick it up. Never pick it up. I don't know why I did. Maybe on the hopes that it was, you know, who knows what. Well, it was. I mean, like, yeah.

And then the interesting part is I think we went home that night, and I started to withdraw so I told my parents I needed to drink and I'll never forget I drank a huge thing of wine and I got sick in our living room and I remember mom cleaning it I mean like I just think about the wreckage that families have to deal with yeah yeah and then and then my last drink was at the hotel we this is a great story man so Karen treatment centers in Warner'sville we decided that I was going to go there right and we drove halfway basically to Morgantown to a holiday inn or what is do you remember the hotel it was a holiday in in Morgan Town yep Pennsylvania and we knew I was going to rehab the next day and I sat with my

parents and I'll never forget like we they called last call and my dad i think made a toast you probably said cheers to this being your last drink yeah yeah and that's my last drink yeah cold cores life i should laugh on august 29th of 2011 no it's hilarious come on yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean definitely laugh about it but i feel like honestly like all like what's shooting off my head right now it's just the word love because there's just with so much love, you know?

And I think about, like, being a father myself and just always seeing my son as my little boy, and it's like, it's just terrifying, you know? And the fact that you stayed together and you had this relationship, I mean, it's just, we spoke to a lot of people about addiction and obviously our history and professional life and I just feel like more and more and more

and you can come up with all the science and you know and the words but it's love really you know and people give up yeah you didn't give up I mean you didn't give up but that's been your life

right right my children have been through you know I not proud to say this but I went bankrupt up in 1991, but I am proud to say that the neighbors in our town, Huydenfield, Rich Lunsford, who was a gentleman that was a friend, supposedly gathered the group of friends, said, we're not going to let Doug lose his house, we're going to make sure the mortgage gets paid. that's i mean how do you how do you you you've got to feel so blessed when those kinds of things

have i didn't know that for years uh went by before somebody finally told me that story uh and so um you know you just don't my dad going back to the foundation collapsing in a home I just watched his reaction to that I mean I was just crushed and he didn't show one just got to put it back together and so that's when I went bankrupt in 1991 bottom of the

bottom of the barrel I didn't know what was going to happen the business went bankrupt and so that's what happened there. But then, you know, again, blessed. My wife didn't leave me. My family stayed with me. And between addiction and bankruptcy, two of the most prevalent causes of divorces,

and my wife never left. Never left. In fact, she worked, raised the kids. as we rebuilt the life. And to think, you know, since that day, I'm sitting here today, had so many wonderful experiences. Our family's still together, six grandchildren, all the children that my wife basically raised on her own, I would say.

You would agree with that, I'm sure. While I was working or playing, one of the two, they're all very comfortable in their lives, very successful in their own right. They're doing what they want to do. in a good, good, good way. And you look from the ashes of bankruptcy and addiction and all those things. I think love has a lot to do with it, no question.

Big, I mean, it's the biggest part of it, but I think there's other things too. There's that word I think you used earlier in the podcast, loyalty, loyalty to the family, loyalty to, what is real and what isn't and those kinds of things so there's there's there's other factors there that that is the glue that kept it together i never heard my parents ever argue ever never heard them i heard my mom one time she's i can picture it now sitting on the fireplace and she was crying i came out and saw her crying i never saw a cry before. She said, well, your dad's just so insensitive. And I'm afraid I got that gene also to a certain extent. But that's the only, that's the worst I ever saw. So we, we grew up in a

home that was loving. But not the kind of loving that I think people think about. It was loving because they worked hard, provided us with the ability to join Boy Scouts, to live, in the community that was wholesome and all those kinds of things. So when you add all those things together like outlier, loyalty, love,

I think it's allows, and it has allowed me as a parent, as a business person and as a person to live his life.

without a tremendous amount of remorse on anything to come back to your question about did I feel guilty about his did I cause his addiction maybe I don't know but I don't think about it you know I don't think that's how it works but I do you help me get sober I mean do you remember

like what would you say to someone today who's a father with a kid that's struck I mean. Yeah, that's such a tough question because, you know, what I used, what you used to tell me, you know, you've got to be tough. You've got to be tough love. It's got to be tough love. You got to just, you got to walk away sometime along the line.

I couldn't walk away. I just couldn't walk away. I'm sorry. You know, it went against again. I didn't pay attention to what everybody was saying to do. Yeah, but if you walked away, I might be dead. I mean that's the truth I mean that's why I don't at this point

in my career I don't believe in giving up on your kids and kicking them out to the street or whatever like that I just I'm also not a parent so I don't know what that looks like right you know I don't know how I would have felt even if I'd done what I did and

it didn't turn out this way if he died then I didn't do what they told me to do I'm sure I would have had some guilt, right? I would have had to have had guilt, you know. I don't care. So it's very complex. No, it is. It's very complex and it's just what saved me, I think, through it all.

What helped me get through is, you know, going up every Sunday as many times as I could and listening to Dr. Bill. Well, yeah, no, I went to this treatment center called Karen, and they had a guy by the name of Father Bill who did a non-denominational service every Sunday, which was cool because anyone was welcome. And he really spoke about the way that substance abuse affects a family. And it was powerful.

And we got to sit next to each other together in that journey every Sunday. Yeah, yeah. We're drive up. Listen to Bob Seeger, drive back, listen to Bob. Seeger and then go to an Eagles game no he was great and he he had a big impact on me he had a big impact on me and and what are you I mean today in your life seeing me my story what is that the way that I live like what does that bring up for you I mean like are you just grateful

It brings up a lot. It brings up a lot. I'm grateful, obviously. I look at it in amazement, total amazement. I spend a lot of time walking. I walk a lot. It's my soulless. And, you know, I just, I get so blessed sometimes, and I, you know, I'm almost there now, but, you know, I just cry, you know, that, how did this happen? That, that I'm sitting here today with a wonderful family, a son who is doing just amazing stuff.

You know, I can't tell you how many people have come up to me and said, your son is just, you know, unbelievable. He's helped my family, help my son. I go to the gala. You know, I just do these things. And I add that all up, and I say, I think my, biggest regret right today, if you want to know what it is, is I wish I could be more involved in release recovery and what you're doing. But it's your thing, and you're doing such

great work and the whole organization and all the people involved. And I try, and I'm now sort of trying to balance what I could do for release with CVI because of those doing what would hope I could do, and that is save lives, you know, in the background, just be in the background, doing something that would help both entities. If I have any regrets, I'm not doing enough to do that. But I hope to in the future to be able to do that. I have some remaining good years left, I think, but you never know, right? It changes on a dime, just like for a good friend of mine, Dale Tower, who fell in the kitchen and broke his spine and just in a kitchen by himself. And, you know, how freaky is that? So, you know, it's just a blessed life

I've had. And I just want to thank the God that we all worship, whoever that is, that I've had that blessed life and give back some way, shape, or form. And again, that's... I guess I'm just sitting here thinking, like, one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation is just for the wisdom piece, and I think I would be a fool to not ask you, like, what... What do you tell a younger Doug Clark?

I mean, what do you tell me? What do you tell someone who's in the middle of their life and focus on the wrong things? I mean, what do you... I know you say that you don't live with a lot of... of regret and I appreciate that but there are you know all these interviews that they'll do with people on their you know on their deathbed and they'll kind of say you know spend a lot of time doing things that weren't as important so for you like seeing the world today like what what

is important to you wow that's a heavy question um I mean to me the legacy I want to leave and why, and again, this may be rationalization. You may think it's rationalization, but I've told your mother this many, many times. I have worked hard to build a business and to build wealth so that my family could do, even along the way, could do, with the exception that it was maybe five years when we were coming out of bankruptcy, could do what my family couldn't afford and just make sure that that that legacy would be there for not only my children but for my grandchildren that there was enough to make sure they lived good lives could live good lives now is that a you know a lot of people say well I'm not leaving any

you know I'm going to leave I'm going to spend my money now and you know you know I don't care about, you know, they care about the children, but they're not going to be thinking like that. And maybe it's a rationalization on my part. I don't know. Again, I've come back to, I've thought about my deathbed. I don't think I'm going to think I'm going to think like that. I don't think I'm going to think that I've had a hell of a life, Jesus, and I'm so thankful for that's what I think I'm going to be thinking when I on my deathbed I don't think I'm going to what allowed you to get to that what's the secret to feeling that way just living life to your fullest I mean like that because that's an answer that I think

anyone would want to give to that question I'm not sure I understand but I don't think I think that that's the you know that's the kid who feels like an outlier and says or you know like that was very profound the the story about your father building the foundation yeah you know like and I just feel like that like I feel like you you can go get different answers people say they regret or I wish I could have I wish I could have I mean like what's I'm more attracted and find that answer uh you know what I hope to say as well because it just you you get that way by living your life with shit happens I'm going to keep going you know um this is part of the journey not drown yourself in what could have been or

what was and why some people are like that and some people aren't i mean that's probably you know the brain genetics but uh i'd much rather be that way you know than then then trying to think about all the ways that i wish i didn't regret or if i had could been more because you know doctor dr g said the same thing like i was working you know i was working and i think about that too. I'm working, you know, like to try to make a life to, to satisfy my own individual ideas of ambition and success. And that gets harder when you have a family and you, you know, you want to be there with them, but like, you're also like, I'm still, you know, me. And I, and I have ideas for myself. And, and I don't think you ever cut it clean, you know,

um, so I don't, I don't, I don't, I appreciate that. I know, I know, I know, I know you love the answer. It's amazing. No, I know you love the answer. That's, uh, and I would, actually, I'm not surprised by the answer because I've watched you live your life to the fullest. Yeah, I think there's two things that I would like to say in response to that also to your comments there. I had a dream that I was going to race and end up. It was a big dream. I mean, my dad and I listened to the Indy 500 every, we'd sit in front of a radio and listen to the Indy 500 and his favorite driver and I had my favorite drivers. It was an event we'd, had every year, and it was, if you don't set big goals, you'll never reach them, right?

So driving the Indianapolis 500, taking a company public was always two things I always wanted to accomplish in my life. So I struck out and got as far as AAA ball. I didn't get to the Indianapolis 500. But you know why I think about that? The way I think about that today is I tried. and I'm not sitting here today saying boy I wish I'd given that driving in the Indy 500 I wish I'd really tried to do that I really tried to do it

that I didn't get there but I think I'd be feeling worse today thinking I never tried yeah I never tried and say why didn't I why didn't I try you know so I think that's profound

I think another thing that sort of is embedded, and it's so simple. You know, I had a mentor who passed away, and I went to his service in Martha's Vineyard this fall. And he created his own service, and he had a big impact on my life. He really did when I was at Drexel, gave me advice that I carried through forever in life.

But the song, and when I listened to this song, I said, wow, that is me a little bit. And it was Frank Sinatra saying, and I did it my way. Listen to the words of that song someday. You know, that song, I did it my way. And that's the way I feel today sitting here. And not hope it, it worked out to be a great result. But at least I did it my way, and I tried. And so, but I couldn't have done it without a wife and a family that let me do it

and without, you know, some sort of crisis intervention. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you mentioned mom. I mean, mom is obviously like, you know, she's the rock man. We're so lucky to have her. Oh, absolutely. I mean, she, look at the, I would say, Would I tell anybody, look at the four children, they're a product of her. Yeah.

Look at the four children. They're a product of her. She's the best. That's what I would say. So I've been blessed all the way, right? And so it's just, that's how I sit here today. I don't know whether we got into some of the kinds of stuff that would help parents that are dealing with addiction and that kind of thing.

Yeah, we might have to do a part too. I mean, you might have to really come back and dig into some of that stuff. I would love to. I feel like there's a lot on the table here. And the thing that's important for me to say just to anyone listening, I mean, like, mine and my father's story is unique to us. It worked for us. Right.

There's no guarantee this way works for someone else. You know, and we've done that with love, with communication, with some fights, you know, with some disagreements, like with all that shit. And we stand here today like very best friends because we have the ability to talk about things, you know, and that's something I've learned in my recovery. And I think my recovery has probably impacted you in some positive ways and vice versa. You know, your ability to say open-minded and not be, you know, square peg ground hole with some of this stuff is saved my life well you know um you i think we

were talking a little earlier about wisdom um and i think wisdom is a very personal thing wisdom is in this great grand theory to me anyhow i think wisdom's very personal and we're sitting here probably twice your age and I just heard a saying the other day it's pretty impactful for me as I think about it I said there are no shortcuts to wisdom there are no shortcuts to wisdom and a lot of wisdom's gained only through experience right

experiencing different things so there are no silver bullets out there for wisdom wisdom. And so, yeah, that's sort of where it's at, too. I think Sarah want to chime in with one from the bleachers. Yeah, it's up. What person is that? What parts of you? Are you most proud of to see? So the question is, what parts of you, dad, do you see in me? And are you most proud of? What have you passed on to me? I have the list. I have. I'll give you my top three. Let's hear it. Honesty. Transparency.

You are what you are. You are what you say. There's no bullshit. And what's the saying for a release? Keep going. Keep going. they're my top three I don't know whether that's your top three

no I definitely admire your honesty and for a long time I wasn't very honest so that is true you know transparency is hard I'm actually you know it's been a weird ride for me being in the public eye at times and probably being too transparent

in moments that I don't really need to be honestly yeah it's like we had that conversation like real friends and deal friends you know like i'm at a point in my life where i'm really leaning into my real friends you know the deal friends the people that want shit from me or you know and you've taught me a little bit of that you know um but to keep going thing i mean yeah that's you through and through i mean like perseverance yeah that's it man that's it that's what we talk about every day and i don't i don't uh

and I see myself and I see you and me in business and some other things like we want things done the way that we want them done and that's a blessing and a curse you know and we have expectations of people and sometimes that gets us hurt you know like we we bet on people you and I bet on people and sometimes that doesn't work out for us because not all people are loyal nor do they have to be I think we just want people to love us and that's just the Clark way and we're sensitive at times you're much more than me sensitive yeah you could have that conversation I'd like to dig in there in a part to I think

I think I think you like me love validation and hugs and to know that you're appreciated and you are and I'll tell you that right here you are appreciated I love you and you've you know

I wouldn't be here without you it's been a pretty awesome day Yeah. All right, that's it. Thanks, guys.