The Zac Clark Show - Finding Humor in the Dark Sh#t: Dave Manheim on Drugs, Recovery, Loss & Dopey

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Zac and Jay sit down with Dave Manheim – creator of Dopey, the darkly hilarious and deeply moving podcast about “drugs, addiction, and dumb sh*t,” or as he now calls it, “the dark comedy of drug addiction.” What began as two friends swapping war stories has grown into a full-blown cultural force, with a diehard community, celebrity guests, and an archive of the funniest, most heartbreaking, and most brutally honest stories in the recovery world.Dave talks about launching Dopey just four months into sobriety with his late co-host Chris, the tragedy that reshaped the show, and why humor – especially the twisted kind – is a lifeline. He opens up about chasing guests like Marc Maron, Boy George, and Jason Biggs (and getting ghosted), his complicated feelings about being called “Dopey Dave,” and how working at Katz’s Deli taught him more about recovery than any rehab ever did.They get into podcast beefs, the sad reality of grief that often shadows recovery, the great weed debate, and what happens when someone who never set out to “help people” accidentally does just that – over and over again. Dave’s smart, incredibly earnest and very, very funny.If you’ve ever been told “once a junkie, always a junkie,” if you’ve experienced unexpected loss in recovery, or if you believe this addiction stuff is heavy enough and that humor is an essential ingredient in getting through it – please give this episode a watch or listen.Link to Dave’s podcast: Dopey: On the Dark Comedy of Drug AddictionConnect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

Black and roll, sir? Yeah. All right, we're back here at the Zach. I'm nervous for this one. Why? How do you, like, I don't know that I've interviewed a host yet. Again, like, you're the O.G. I'm not the O.G.

You are the. One of them. I'm an O. I'm an O.G of recovery podcasting, for sure. Which is weird. But there were OGs before me. There was Omar of the Cher podcast, and there was that sober guy. both who we had major beefs with but go back to your

I don't want to no I this is this is it's going to happen how it's supposed to happen you've taught me that Dave Mannheim is here from

Dopey Nation Dopey podcast he's got the Dopey Foundation he's doing live events we're going to get into all that but most importantly he's just a guy that I

I really respect and you've helped me a lot so I appreciate you being here well thank you I respect you and you've helped me a lot and I this is my neighborhood like i grew up in this neighborhood and i i feel like we don't spend a lot of time together but whenever we do it feels as though we have so that's nice yeah it's easy and i never met

jay so that's cool jay j is the one kind of floating because i've talked to him about like the disbordane idea of going out and being like the yeah yeah i want to help cobble that yeah i gave that to jack so nice i own it very good i own it dave jay's a big idea guy I had that idea for me. And then I was like, let's just give it to Zach because he'd be better at it than I would be. Well, it's a great idea. But, Jay, we can give you credit even though I never heard you mention it before.

I'll just be around. Okay. You know, wherever we go. West Virginia, Malibu. So we're going to get to Dave's story because it's a good one. But before, so Mark Marin yesterday came out and said he's done. Are you done? Like, where are you at with the whole podcast?

No, I'll do it. I'll do it until the wheels come off. I'll do it until, I mean, what I said after Chris died was I'll do it until it until it sucks or it's not fun and it's still fun and i don't think it sucks yet chris was the guy you started the podcast with you met him in rehab yeah we'll get we can get into that and and zach knew i knew i met chris and well and then i know his sister arden who works in the field oh wow so there's a lot of degrees of i mean this this world is so small as you know like the longer you hang around the smaller it gets yes for sure and do you do you do you i saw i was laughing because

this is how I saw you tweeted something like I hate celebrities the other day like or like a couple weeks ago because probably someone was annoying you that wouldn't come on or probably then then automatically I'm like it's me he hates me oh you know like I like I'm the self-centered off but like do you are you competitive with this stuff do you care like like what is your driving I'm deeply disturbed I'm deeply disturbed I'm super competitive I care every slight is like a dagger in my heart. But I'll tell you something that I'm a sick person. First of all, let me lead with that. I'm a very sick person. And I really struggle with every aspect of rejection. But I've learned something with you because you don't respond as quickly as I would like and or as often as I would

like. You are the first person that I got over it with. So you've given me that. I've gotten over it. Why? I'm curious. Acceptance is the key to. all of our answers are the key was it acceptance is the solution to all of our problems that's why because i don't know i think when we sat down at just before dopey con last year i felt very plugged in with you and i was like you know what jack's a busy guy he can't always get back to me when i want him to so you got a pass other people don't have the pass that you have like your buddy fucking wellbridge mike oh boy oh boy i recently made an amend to him though Really? Mike Ahern.

Yeah. I love money. I made an amend. So is it like the disrespect thing? Like I'm not worthy and then it makes you feel shitty about yourself or what is it? It's the classic alcoholic of how could they do that to me? You know what I mean? And it's like with real celebrities, like not like people I know.

You know what I mean? Like people I pine after come on the show. There are some celebrities out there who communicate with me and don't come on the show, and I'll name them, because why not? Boy, George, why doesn't he come on the show? I don't know. Fucking Jeff Garland agrees to come on the show, and then ghosts. Fucking Jason Muse text with me every month, and he won't say no, and he won't give me a date. And I'm like, dude, I don't want to keep texting you. That's why I text him. I said, you don't want me to keep texting you. Why don't you just give me a date or say no? No, he won't. He likes this game. I don't know what it is.

I really respect Sarah and Jay are like are like Zach needs of little Dave because I'm like terrified to write anyone well you did that with us you know because we went back

and forth we canceled one time and you kept coming like and you put it in the subject line we need a date you know and like the truth is I respect that and I also know that like

you're not like some dude off the street like you're you know you're professional you've you know you've built a history of doing this like I'm very much a dude

off the street I'm not only very much a dude off the street when we started we didn't have a mic We didn't have anything when we did it in my apartment on Grand Street Me and Chris talking into a laptop and I started stalking celebrities then and I'm still stalking celebrities now and with with with with this show though the truth was I fucked up our first

date no Zach fucked up our first date you had to go someplace and you got stuck yes and you couldn't get my flight yes I was in a do you think do you think Zach's a hard guy to read because I think a lot of times people can perceive that like oh this dude doesn't like me or he's standoffish and and that's never the case got you i think i grew up with people like you so you're not hard for me to good but i do say like if i say i'm going to come to something i come like that morning at breakfast i said yeah release will sponsor your event you and uh and you came to the event and you came to coffee and uh but the real winner was i ran into you after the event and it was a very nice running into you on sixth avenue yes i was walking up from dave's new york

not to be affiliated with me but you ever go to Dave's New York the little they have like shoes and sweatshirts Army Navy store yeah yeah classic great store I'm with my friend Ray and you saw us and you were so happy to see us and it was a beautiful moment

so if you're not following Dave has a podcast called dopey and it's been around forever and he's really really good and he does this amazing job so look we do a lot of serious interviews here because I want to get all serious and talk about how you've like saved the world and all this

shit. But Dave has taken an alternative approach, which is why I think we can both coexist, which is it's really funny. I mean, your shit is really funny. You're, you're one of my favorite follows on Instagram because like I'll be having a shitty day and I'll, I'll like come up on one of your memes that just makes me, and I don't, I don't audibly laugh a lot. People know this about me and I will audibly laugh at your social media. Did you set out to do it that way? Or is it just you're a funny neurotic guy, like being himself? No, you. Or the Instagram.

The podcast. No, the podcast was not meant to help anybody and it still isn't meant to help anybody. Or be funny. No, it's meant to be fun. It's like, basically, I was four months sober and I was talking to Chris, my friend, who I had met at Mountainside in 2011. We both relapsed four times between 2000. In 2011, in 2015, I had made a sizzle reel for a show I wanted to do because I work at Katz's Deli and the show is called The Last Jewish Waiter, about a waiter who doesn't want to be a waiter. He wants to have a talk show. So he does a talk show while he waits tables. And the people who made Anthony Bourdain's show actually bought it or, you know, picked it up and tried to pitch it. It never got really sold. And Chris loved it. And he was like, I want to.

do something like that with you and I was like I don't know what you do except I knew he had crazy drug stories and it turned out Chris had been a great writer and a very brilliant creative person but he was funny as fuck and he had horrible horrible drug stories and I had another friend who was like you should do a podcast just about drug stories and I was like Chris why don't we try to do a podcast just about the worst shit we had ever done and I was totally devoted to the Howard Stern show and I and I was devoted to Artie Lang's existence on the Howard Stern show, and I said, why don't we just take that and tell the worst stories we ever did and make fun of each other and, like, dumb shit,

like talk about what we ate that day or what we were doing. And it was meant to just be a comedy show, and we put it as a comedy show. I feel like six months in, as a joke, we decided to turn it into a self-help show because we figured we'd rate higher, and we did. But we never wanted it to not be a comedy show, and we never really wanted it to help anyone.

What Chris always said was if we made a show to help somebody, nobody would ever get any help from it. But if we made a dumb, stupid show that people thought was funny, maybe they would get help from it, like, underneath it. Which is evident. If you go to his live events, you have these people that have been around you for, and they have these kind of characters within the community and these fun names. And if you're there for the first time, you kind of feel like it's like you're walking into your first meeting. It's like, I don't know anyone here. and these people seem really cool and they're all like this little family

and I'm on the outside, but it's... You killed it at DopeCon though. You got, you out vulnerable to everybody. By the end of it, did you feel comfortable? Yes. Oh, yeah, of course. So were you up there telling you? I was right before I went to on-site.

It was right? So the live event, it was October? Was it, yeah. It was DopeCon 500. So he had Hank Azaria, he had Jason Biggs, he had Carl Radkey. He had Novak was there. Novak had to make an amends.

He didn't make the amends. though he refuses to make that amends properly and i've lost some people from that our editor quit because no vac uh didn't make a proper amend and i gave him an award and he didn't i gave him the same award i think three years in a row i think we'll give it to him again i don't think he's going to make the proper amends but that's okay jason biggs won't come on this podcast why not i just want to say that out loud i don't know he asked him said no what he said i'm just saying that out loud jason bigs yeah he's a very likable he's a very likable i mean i'll talk to him yeah talk to him Yeah, talk to him.

Get him in the chair. He's a good guy. Jason Biggs, just so we're clear. I DM'd direct message. I don't even like saying DM'd. I direct message Jason Biggs 500 times. No response. And do you remember, oh, my God, Jersey Jerry?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah, our producer, loves Jersey Jerry. Jason Biggs is a big barstool sports guy, and I went on Jersey Jerry show. And then Jason Biggs is like, oh, where do I know this guy? And he's like, oh, yeah, he wrote me 500 times. And that's when he agreed to come on.

So it's weird shit like that. It happens when it's supposed to, right? I mean, like... That's the sober way to look at it. I mean, the truth is, I wouldn't have wanted to interview some of these people early on because I probably would have been too nervous. Like, now it's, I get it.

It's more of just a conversation. I think, I mean, for my show, for Dopey, it's meant to be drugs, addiction and dumb shit and then depending on what the person wants to do and the connection it goes where it goes you know what i mean like when you came on your game for drugs addiction and dumb shit plus recovery yeah and then plus where we were connected and i think like i love making the show because i like that last jewish waiter thing like i'd always wanted to have a talk show when i was a kid my mom would listen to a m radio in the kitchen the show called rambling

with gambling. I mean, I'm 51. I turned 51 this week. Hi, birthday. Thank you. Uh, and fucking, I would listen to it and I'd be like, oh, that sounds so relaxing. Disguised job. I was like, I kind of want to do that. And then I fell in love with the idea of doing a talk show and I never thought to do it until Chris was like, let's do something. So prior to, you got a mountainside in 2011, what heroin? Are you heroin addict? Yeah. Yeah. I'm on, I mean, I'm polyaddicted. I'm, I'm a, I'm a heroine. I'm a heroin. I'm a heroin. I'm a heroin. I'm a heroin addict. I'm a weed addict. I'm a benzoh addict. Those are my things. But I mean, I've shot meth. I've shot

coke. I've sniffed coke. I've done acid, mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're working at Katz's Deli, you know, for 10 years? No, I've worked at Katz's for 17 years and I still work there. You still work there. So you were still in that time before 2011, before you go to rehab, you're working there and you're just on a cocktail of drugs. No. Okay. No? I worked at Katz's a great. here doesn't the guy tell you like how well i worked at cats as when i was in high school and in college and then i became a tv producer and then i became a heroin addict and i moved to california and i found out my mom was dying of leukemia and i came home i got a shit ton of methadone i came home i started working at cats as i met my wife she got pregnant they uh i was off heroin

smoking weed they made me a manager of the store and and when she was pregnant one of my my best friends came over and gave me heroin and I started using and I got my habit back and I'd be counting money like shit tons of money in the office nodding out into a pile of money and uh and then they found out and they fired me cats is yes and said you need to get help or just said they said well they said you're fired and I went back to them and I said uh please let me go to treatment and they said okay but when you come back you can only be a waiter and I went to the owner at the time and I said I had just come back from treatment I was like can I please be a manager again and he said these words echo in my brain he said once a junkie always a junkie

and you hear that the opposite of that in a meeting but when this man said that to me I was like whoa you know what I mean and then I then I really like got into recovery I mean I think it took me a few years I didn't get sober until 2015 and and my first daughter was born in 2010 so like Wow. There's a rocky kind of period. And you meet Chris. So Chris O'Connor. Yes.

You meet him. What was the dates of Mountainside? I was there May 1st to June 1st, 2011. Right. Because I went to Karen, August of 2011. And then I landed in Brooklyn. I went to Joe Shranks place in Williamsburg. And Chris was the manager.

And Chris was there. Yeah. I mean, he was kind of around. He was running that place. Yeah. And that was one of my favorite dopey story. in the history of the show where Chris was running that place called the loft in Williamsburg and he was like eating ecstasy and shooting coke and like locking himself

in the manager's office with the client's urine. I don't know why that always stood out to me. I always thought it was. I know that office well. Yes. And Joe, I mean, Joe has helped a lot of people. I mean, Joe was, has always been kind of a, you know Joe? I do. He has a giant dopey tattoo. Amazing. A giant dopey tattoo. He got us Hank Azaria. He got us. He got us. He got us somebody else he was on the show in 2015 like maybe our 20th show he came on he's he's he's funny he's he's a good guy he's he's definitely stuck by our little thing and he loved chris and chris loved him because he had that website i remember the fix well the fix right and so that's what i always think about when we when i sit around i say like why are we doing this podcast why are we

talking about this stuff because i remember how impressionable i was early on And I remember I would go on that website and I thought it was the coolest thing ever because it was kind of like pop culture for recovery, The Fix. I mean, and who, it was him and, um, I don't know, a lady. I think a lady that's involved in Dopey, one of the, one of the women. Amy Dresner. Amy Dresner. But she was a writer for the Fix and then they did a podcast called Recovery on, no, it's called something rehab, rehab confidential, but they stopped doing it. Oh, yeah.

Thank you you like I've competed with all these people I've had resentments against all these people and I love all these people I'm a sick person you have a good name though the name the naming of a pot I mean like mine's horrible it's just my name but dopey is amazing it's amazing until they start calling you dopey Dave

and then it's not you know you don't like it I don't like it you didn't see that coming well if Chris had lived it never would have happened wouldn't have been dopey Dave and dopey Chris would have been dopey with Dave and Chris Chris. Right. But Chris dies and I become the clown dopey Dave and I don't like it. Because people, and this is again a testament to my illness, people fucking say, oh, dopey Dave and they act like they're giving me respect, but they're not giving me respect. Right. They're putting me down. They're

saying dopey Dave. Do you like look at this fucking idiot, dopey Dave. You don't think so? It's built in. It's built in. You think that people, because your name's dopey Dave. You think that people, because your name's dopey Dave are my name is not dopey day let's just be clear about that it's Dave Mannheim but you think that because the dopey is associated that like subliminally they're either making fun of you or they think you're dope no it's the alliteration of dopey Dave it's those two words together creates this clown this idiot fool that's beneath all of us professionals that's so interesting because I always thought it was like very well I was like oh that's like respect I wish I could see it that way but I want to go about you

keep calling yourself very ill and I actually know you personally to a certain degree and I think you're actually pretty well is this like a bit is it a bit because I think there's a lot of people that are that are in recovery that I'll say oh I'm so sick or I'm like those are the ones who know the most about themselves are the ones who are adjusted it's like when can I accept dopey Dave as a respectful thing that's a question is it a bit yes it's a bit but it's a bit that's real. Well, what would it take? Money, power. I don't know, something like that. Like, do you look at Mark Marin and you're like, fuck Mark? Like, you've been on my show, we're friends, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, what you, what you have is the Holy Grail and now you're just

fucking walking away from it. First, I would say me and Mark Marin are friendly. I wouldn't say we're friends. Okay. He's somebody that really loves to let everyone know how annoying I am. That's one of his great past, when dealing with me, it's a passion of his. But, uh, We're friendly, and I think Mark Maron, you know, he came out with podcasts when they were called podcast because they were on an iPod. 2011, I think he's came out. I feel like, I don't know. 2008, maybe, whatever. I think earlier than that.

Yeah. And maybe 2011. I don't know. But Marin has a very, very, very successful stand-up career. He's a successful actor. He's on this new Apple TV show with. What's his face? Yeah.

Stick. Oh, and the golf one. Yeah. But let me ask you this, because I feel like that something happened for Marin, and I think it relates to your podcast too, there was an episode that he had with Louis C.K.

Where they sort of like hashed out this age-old beef and feud, right? And then I feel like after that, like Louis C.K. And his whole thing sort of changed the perspective of Mark Merrin to a degree, the podcast. And I've heard you talk about this with yours. You know, you lost your co-host, the guy you started with, to an accidental drug overdose, right? Which obviously is terrible.

And then after that, it brought attention to the podcast in a new way. Is that true? Can you talk about that a little bit? It's definitely true. I mean, do you want me to talk about the Marin-Louis-K. thing? No. I mean, I think the thing that's true, the thing that's true about both of those things is that, something changed there and that's what made it more interesting or seemingly more important

with chris dying it was just so tragic and crazy and i'd mentioned a friend of mine had brought me heroin when linda was pregnant and it was my friend todd and dopey would never have happened without my friend todd because me and todd basically met in college became stoners together started doing other drugs started doing heroin together did every drug in the world together drove across the country a bunch of times and he died just before chris he died six weeks before chris died uh and maybe three very very very important members of our community died in two years before that so by the time chris died i was so sick uh because of todd's death todd's death fucking leveled me uh i don't think i my mother died and i cried and i don't think

I cried again until Todd died and my daughter was like so freaked out because I was weeping and by the time Chris died I was just furious because Chris knew Todd. Todd went to stay at the at the sober house that Chris worked at you know

like and I think all of those things made people very attached to the show. It's this thing that people call a parasocial relationship where they listen to a podcast and feel like they know us and they're friends with us and now it's someone is gone that they thought they really knew

so many people were in love with chris he was really very likable and sweet and funny and naive that's what's frustrating about some people i've lost it's always it's always that guy that we you know like that's that's funny it's funny because like when it's they all of a sudden get all these good qualities when they die but chris actually had those qualities no i'm sure he would steal your while when you were down but like you would you would help you look for it bring bring some energy to the room and well it's surprise it's just a surprising thing right like good people die in this in this business you know of drug eviction i don't think i'm a bad person did i steal my dad's 1963 miami hurricanes ring and go to the pawn shop and get a lot of money for it because it was

actual gold absolutely how did he get that ring and it was like his graduate so back in like then 60s like the graduation rings were made of like real gold so i gave that to the guy i thought pawn shop and he gave me a couple grand back and i was like holy shit did you ever get it back no no no that's long gone that's long gone so so you start you go to treatment you get out 2011 you and chris say you kind of when do you start dopey when is that 2015 so this year is 10 years of it so you start 15 and chris dies in 18 yeah we did 142 episodes and then the 143rd was the episode where we mentioned that he died and um and his girlfriend who found his body came on the show and it was crazy and um why did you do that do you think well you brought on his girlfriend and she literally

talked about finding his body and in the whole the whole death right yeah i did it because when he died we had just had a baby we had our second daughter and when he died uh she called me and i thought she was lying because I had talked to Chris the night before he died and he was fighting with her because he was using you know he was lying he was using he was crazy arden had tested him on the sunday and he died on the Monday does there any agreement between the two of you when you start the pod that you're going to stay sober is it just we're going to do this and see what happens in 15 i think we just agreed that we would never stop doing it we never mentioned using so although Chris would often say if one of us used it would be the best episode ever he would say that

and do you was he sober from 15 to 18 until he started using right before you supposedly yeah as far as you were yeah yeah yeah I've been sober since you know 2015 did being because we talk 10 years this year did you have it or is in August are you August what August 13th thereabouts what be 30th August yeah June 27th Are you 20? No, 18. Wow. That's a lot of time.

You're going to be 10, 9, 14. So why did I think, I don't know, 15? In 2011. I went to treatment in 20. Oh, because that's why, because we were in treatment in the same year. But do you, but like, just one thought, though. Like, because talking about your sobriety, you know, is a choice at a public, in a public way. You're four months into, out of rehab, right?

which is like when you go back and think about the way you were four months into your recovery it's like I didn't go to rehab that time I just you're four months sober yeah yeah but like I just think about the first year of sobriety like I don't I don't even I wasn't even a person you know I could barely order a sandwich you know in my apartment that's why

the show is so good yeah I bet it was great but that's also too like for me the shit's like way too serious to not have some humor around it like there's this whole underbelly right now one is the language like you can't say drug addict you can't say and I'm like I'm a drug addict what do you want me to say like I don't think anyone's going to be more or less inclined to get sober

because I'm I'm not calling myself a substance abuser I think there's different rules though for you because you own treatment yeah you work in treatment I work in a deli but aren't I supposed to like aren't I supposed to give people some hope and normalize this thing a little bit and not make it so right but you're under way more scrutiny than we were true we weren't under any scrutiny. First year, though, some people were like, they're doing the wrong thing. Right. You'd have some people that would say that now, but they don't know you and they don't know the press. No, they don't say it now. They don't say it now. They said it then because we didn't even want to say we were in recovery. We didn't want to say anything about recovery. And I went on

a bunch of rants about how the second the show was about recovery. I would stop doing it. And we didn't use our names. And we covered our eyes so you couldn't see who we were. And it was totally anonymous and it was just meant to be stupid and funny fun you know it wasn't meant to do anything besides that and were you going to a meetings were you involved in 12 step you were you were doing the deal yeah i mean i got into 12 step meetings really because of chris you know i i and when i got sober i was just coming off of weed and occasional pills i had stopped doing heroin in like 2013 or something there maybe 2012 you said your wife was pregnant and 11. She was pregnant in 2009. No, 2000 and, yeah, we, Nora is 2010. Yes, Nora was born in 2010.

Susan was born in 2018 just before Todd and Chris died. But I was using when Nora was born. I was on the streets copping Xanax, like just before Linda gave birth to her. And Linda, and it was at St. Vincent's, which closed down. but she asked me to stay over and I said no I need to go home and clean up the house for the baby but Todd who died met me there and we did heroin and I was just

I say it because I think it needs to be said it hurt Linda so much it destroyed our family we were apart for five years it was a miracle we ever got back together and I only got back to it was because I got sober and I got into 12 steps the only reason I got into 12 steps

was because Chris had a year and a half when I decided I needed to change my life and he was like, you need to go to meetings and I called him every day and he wasn't my sponsor but I knew if somebody as fucked up as him could get something out of it then I was down to try.

And why do you think you've why is it important for you to have celebrities on the show because you feel like it helps? I'm like a fame whore. I feel like if we have celebrities on the show it makes me seem important it gives the show credibility it makes the show seem like a real show uh it makes it gives us and that's what the stranger cares about i mean like whether it's whether it's it's right or wrong i just think that like we live in a world right now where everyone can see anything they want about anyone

and and when you're famous it's just like people want those stories and and you know i i mean it's but there aren't a lot of people out there openly talking about you'll see the people mag clip or the us You know, like someone talks about going to rehab. Someone last night I saw mandated to go to three AA meetings a week. I don't even know who this guy is. It's rare that they're going to give up the goods. We would call it hitting them with the dopey. Me and Chris, we'd say that all the time.

And the first celebrity we got on was Danny Boy O'Connor from House of Pain. And it happened super randomly. I was a waiter at Katz's and Danny Boy O'Connor was a regular. And Chris never wanted to have celebrities on the show at all. Chris wanted to do is talk shit. He didn't want to have anybody on the show. Once in a while, have like a friend call in or something. Danny Boy O'Connor was in the restaurant. I knew how Sapine had toured with Cypress Hill. I figured Danny had some kind of weed story to tell. And I said to him, can you meet us after the shift and come do the show? And he's like, sure.

After the shift, he goes, what's your podcast about? And I said, oh, it's about drugs addiction and dumb shit. And he's like, oh, fuck, I have 12 years today. And it turned out he's, he's, He's this horrible meth addict, you know, super AA guy. It was crazy. And that was the first, like, famous person we had on. It was totally random. I didn't know he was sober. I didn't know he was a real addict.

Have you pulled other people out of cats? I feel like that. Yeah, Jamie Lee Curtis. And Marin. All of them. All the best ones. Oh, that's where you met Marin? And Marin's story is like my, it's like that's the only real, I mean, this is how

fucked up I am or I should stop saying that. But I struggle with people who talk about God's will. higher power, all that kind of stuff. I adopted that stuff because it was suggested that I needed it. It was not natural for me. But show is dying. Basically, Chris had died. I feel like the show is dying.

I'm in Katz's. Do you remember, do you know this guy, David Schaff? He wrote the book. Yeah, Nick Chef. Yeah, beautiful boy. Nick Chef is another one who's been ducking me for fucking 10 years, Nick Chef. Well, dude, I read that guy's book. Amazing.

The first one. Tweak. Amazing book. Yeah, but I got, I mean, that totally. set me out on another run because in the first 30 days I'm in my first treatment and I'm reading this guy talk about shooting heroin speedballing I'm like I'm I am not done because I haven't done that yet the second book his book with your relapse yeah that's interesting his second book though crank it's called we all fall down yeah he's supposed to be sober he's touring the country with

his dad and using to be this sober advocate I love Nick chef I'm very angry at you but but I love your writing. He was supposed to come on in January and he fucking ghosted. Anyway. Guys get Nick before Dave so he can fuel his resentment. Yes, definitely.

That's sweet, sweet hatred. No, so I'm fucking at cats. I'm serving a table, five matzabal soups. I look at my phone. I get an email from David Chef who the movie Beautiful Boy had just come out and he's like,

I can't do dopey for six months. I have to do some real shows. He didn't say that, but it was implied. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, ah. And I went outside. I took the matre d's vape

I'm vaping I just quit smoking vaping outside of cats is and I'm like maybe the show needs to end and I look down the street and Mark Maron's walking down the street and I was like are you fucking kidding me and I was like are you Mark Marin and he's like yeah and I was like oh I'm David Mannheim I do this show called Dopee and I tweeted at him

a billion times and he goes I know you and I said well do you want to come in tomorrow and I'll buy you breakfast and he's like sure and he comes in to because he stays at a hotel across the street total godshot if there ever was a godshot it's this one he comes in i buy him an omelet a lock egg and on an omelet i think i get him a sample of every meat he's jewish from new mexico he loved the kind of mythology of cats and um i think he's from new jersey and relocated to new mexico but anyway uh then he agreed to come on and i interviewed him in his hotel room that week

Jamie Lee Curtis came in when Chris was alive and she was buying a knish for Christopher guest, her husband, and someone's like, oh, did you see Jamie Lee Curtis? And I was like, yeah, and I run out the back door and I'm waiting for her at the front door and she comes out. And I'm like, oh, Jamie Lee Curtis. You know, I'm like Bugs Bunny waiting for her. And I tell her about the podcast and she goes, I'm a dope fiend. And I said, I know, do you want to come on our show?

And she's like, yeah. and I take out the waiter pad and she gives me all of her information and I write her and I'm shopping and Chris was still alive and Chris writes me and he goes I think Jamie Lee Curtis just wrote you I was like I don't think so and it because the email didn't say Jamie Curtis and then it says the email says do you want to do it and I'm like absolutely I'm like what the show because I figured there's some weirdo who's listening to the show and he's like I think that's her and then when I when she asked me what the show is about and I said it's like the dark comedy of drug addiction she's like I'm not doing it because to her making fun of addiction or recovery is not happening she didn't agree to come on the show until after Chris died when she came on the show and she cried because Chris died and it was like very powerful she's she's openly sober openly sober and and she's been incredibly helpful to dopy over the years she she'll she'll respond and she's cool she and she has boundaries like she she's she was amazing but it all it really happened because of cats is

she has boundaries yeah i don't have boundaries that's that's it's part of the recovery thing just to talk about recovery for a second is i i i have learned i don't know about you guys but it really does kind of work out it kind of does i mean that that that that story about Mark Maren walking down the street but how many times have we seen that have we experienced that

in a variety of different ways in our lives and if that doesn't happen as long as you're not dying from using it's going to be okay there can be moments that suck

but if you don't use chances are a good one's around the corner I mean that's that's really the real message there's always a comeback there's always a way that things can be okay.

When anyone asks me how I'm doing, I always say the same thing. I say mostly good, you know? Because there's always something that's bothering. I mean, I can always complain, but mostly good. What's your relationship to Katz's now? Because, I mean, have you ever, like, I was an actor? He's a guy, he's a catering.

He's running the show, no. No, now, now I was, I did every job in that place. Like, were you ever like, I can't wait to get the fuck out of Katz's Deli? I'm going to be a full time doing my thing. I'm making money. I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Every day.

Every day. And in fact, when we started Patreon, it was like, get Dave out of the deli. And then my second daughter was born. I was waiting tables, probably 50 hours a week, walking like 15 miles in Katz's every day. And I learned so much. Like, I never learned more than as a waiter in Katz's. I never learned about recovery more than as a waiter in Katz's. I never learned more about life.

It was the only time I ever learned that the more you put into something, the more you get out of it. Like, I never learned that. Are people tipping these days? They were when I was there. Yeah. You know, when I was waiting tables, they were tipping. It was amazing.

I made more money doing that than as a TV producer. And it was a grind. And also, everybody that works at Katz's is basically Dominican, either from Dominican Republic or from, the Lower East Side and like when you were not Jewish I called my show the last Jewish waiter no one's Jewish there because the owner is Jewish some of the managers are Jewish but 98% are Dominican and I say that because working with I mean Dominican people are amazing but working with Dominican people in cats as you learn so much about the world and there's a lot of like conflict

and after I had gotten fired for being a drug addict a lot of them called me a crack and demonized me and whatever, but I fought my way through and persevered. I wound up getting the nod to do catering there. And then I started doing marketing there. And now I do strategic partnerships. And I run their social media. And Joe Rogan recently went on his show and said he's addicted to Katz's Instagram. I feel like I'm two steps away from getting on Joe Rogan. Maybe three. You were just on Rich Roll. I mean, that's a doubt. Did that help the brand a little bit? Yeah. It helped my ego. But I mean, I begged. Rich Roll to go on that show.

Yeah. I mean, I begged him. Were you sitting there? His book, his book. Amazing book. Beyond Ultra. Really. Really same.

I mean, like that's, I credit him with why I run and why. I mean, his story is unbelievable. It's unbelievable what that guy has done, which is why I think he has, I believe that people that are confident like he is, like I feel like he's a very confident person. They've probably accomplished something pretty, pretty cool. That whole thing he did where he did a triathlon on every island in Hawaii in five days. I mean, it's nuts. Ultraman, right?

Yeah. It's a, I think that's where it's cool. Yeah, it was a full, it was a hunt, it was the, the full run, the 26th mile, and he did, he flew. Wow. He's great, though. He's, he's like, there's nothing he's not great at. And it's obvious when you meet him and, like, you see his, you, you were there, you saw his spot. No.

It's, it's like, I've been on the Howard Stern show, I've been on Rich Roll, I've been I've been on Mark Maron. I've been on This American Life and none of it is like Ritchroll. Who is best, Rich? Oh, man. It's like his space is incredible. It's like and the way he does, he's just super pro. Howard Stern Show is pretty amazing

but it's like New York. It's in a building. When did you go on CERN? September 22nd 1999. The greatest day of my life. Wow. I told a crazy lie. I was making a TV show and I was a big Stern

fan and I wanted to promote my TV show it was 1999 so I figured there were three ways to get on the Howard Stern show one was to have my hot girlfriend get naked for him but I didn't want to do that another was to get naked myself and wear a sandwich board saying Howard is the greatest I decided I didn't want to do that either and my third was invent an award and give it to him so my show was called shuffle and I called it the shuffle entertainer of the Millennium Award and it was on college cable television across the country. So I said I had affiliates in every college market polling the students to see who the entertainer of the millennium was. I said it was Howard. I said he beat out people he hated. Jay Leno, Adam Sandler, and Bob Hope, he hated

all of them. And I was high. I snorted heroin and cocaine and did ecstasy. I was up all night. At five in the morning, we left my apartment on 24th Street, walked up. to K Rock. I was so scared and so high that when I walked in, I looked normal. Like my fear was only offset by the heroin I had taken and I was totally normal. He accepted the award. He thanked me. He thanked his agent. He thanked Robin. And then Robin said, look at him. He's fucking high. And they kicked me out. And that was that was it. That was a whole bit. It was probably like seven minutes or something. Is there a video of this? Is there an award? What's the award look like? The award was a bowling trophy that I had made.

And I had to actually, I was so cheap that I credited the trophy shop to get the trophy for free on the Stern Show. And what was the other question? I had a good answer for that question. Oh, was there a video? There was a video that I got years and years later. And I moved to California and I went to some girl's house and to impress her. I showed her that and I left it there. so I don't have the video anymore.

It's gone forever. They have to have archives. Sarah, we got to find that. You can find that? I would be so grateful if you could find that. But I have the audio. It's very sweet.

So Dave, what do you, what do you, I mean, I would imagine that people are, do you reach out to you? I know you're not, it weren't planning on being a self-help show,

but by nature of what you do. What are you telling people these days? How are you, guiding people I don't think I am I mean I don't think I'm I don't think I'm guiding anybody how what do you mean

like when someone's loaded and they reach out to you I say I mean like you don't get the DMs of people hey I listen to your show I watch your show I do I do I tell them to go to meetings straight up I say go to a meeting I say go to a meeting I say do something

you know like I got sober in AA I was barely drinking but I got sober in AA when people say I don't want to say I'm an alcoholic I say there's some magic that happens when you say it, even if you aren't it. There's some incantation that happens. And if you're not willing to do that, the great question, the greatest question in recovery is, what are you willing to do? That's the question.

What are you willing to do? And if you're willing to do nothing or very little or doing it on your own terms, chances are you're not going to make it. And if you're willing to do it, you have a chance. You know, I mean, the community in our, and Dopey, Dopey Nation community during COVID started 25 Zoom meetings a week, and they still do them. And there's nothing to do with me. And they have an A&A meeting. They have an NA meeting.

They have a refuge meeting. They have hangouts. And people are using in there, and people are sober in there. And I know people in there were 20 years. And I know people in there that aren't getting any time. But I just want to say, like, everybody's welcome. I know how I did it and you got to do what you got to do

you know what I mean? Yeah, so you don't have strong opinions on 12 set versus smart versus Dharma versus refuge versus No, I have no opinions My only opinion is like AA really saved my life Right

Which I think is confusing to people though Because I say the same shit And then I get pinned as like A 12 step guy Like yes that's how I got well But I have also seen people get it other ways you just have to do something right you have to do something and and it's also a different time you know like I just feel like even though there still is a lot of stigma like it's just talked

about a lot more and a lot more openly and then these other methodologies are much more mainstream I mean when we got sober like it was either you're going to go to rehab or you're going to go to a a after rehab or you're just going to go to a a I didn't know what else to do I knew one person she's and I and she was really fucked up and then she got sober like sort of like what you said and she wasn't fucked up anymore and she said this is where I go and I and I followed her you know and you know when you get inside those rooms it works we don't really so Jay was my sponsor for many many years no way yeah so but and I always say what I needed so I was an athlete growing up and I always thrived on the coach this is what you you be here at 6 o'clock you do it this way

This is how many you do. And I thrott. So when I met Jay, he was in his starving actor in New York City era. He had a gaggle of sponsor. He's probably sponsoring 20 guys. He was sharing at every AA meeting in New York City. And I heard him share. And so I went up to him after the meeting.

And he very seriously said, call me tomorrow at this time. So I called him. And then he said, meet me at this party. And I remember we were at this guy, Dave Rosenfeld's house. He had this beautiful Manhattan apartment. And I'd never seen anything like it. I'm six months sober and I'm just moved to New York City. I didn't know there were actually like nice places to live.

And he pulled me out on the back and Jay in his very animated way. He's like, are you willing to call three alcoholics a day? Are you willing to get a home group? Are you willing to be of service? Are you willing to take other people through the set? And I was like, are you willing to do a 90 and I was like, I did no choice but to say yes to all those things. He's like, all right, great, call me tomorrow. And he walked away.

You didn't really do that. Here, I made all that shit up on the spot, you know, and he said yes. No, but like, when I hear him say that about me, I'm like, you're scary, bro. I'm like, you're talking about a different person. But like, that is the power of what happened, of the experience that I had in the process. And I had a sponsor who was like super blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, this is what's in the book. Do it.

This is what I did. Do it. And look, it fucking worked. And I got results. But like, now I look back at that. And I think, like, yeah, like, you were, that was what you needed. right but like a lot someone else it may be the other way no but i'll tell you this i got sober in a meeting on sullivan street uh rfi 7 30 in the morning every day and somebody in that meeting

would say that every day there are five things to do and they're exactly what you just said j and when i heard it it it changed my life and i say it now at my meeting because i think somebody always needs to hear that it's these very simple building blocks what the guy at RFI would always say he would say all those things and he would say it is almost impossible to relapse if you're doing all of those things and like that was the thing because I'd never gotten any time and I was like okay if I do these things it's impossible to relapse and it's like okay I'm going to try this it's what you said like what are you willing to do anyone that I've ever seen really changed like have a profound experience because they were willing to do

whatever it took you know and that's what that's what the way i had gotten and you know how do you get to that place pain right you just get beat at least for me i was beaten into a place my first year i wasn't i was my first year without drinking i was going to a ton of meetings i was suicidal by the end of that first year because i hadn't really changed i hadn't done anything and like i just was left to my own head and i was in a very very bad spot so for me i i didn't i didn't want to do the steps i didn't want to talk about god i didn't want to do any of that shit you know it was to go sit in a room with like-minded people and hear yourself talk. But when it

came time to do the work, I was like, I don't, that's not for me. And then I got into a very dark place and it was like, I needed. And it worked. Totally. You know Dylan, Chris, Dylan Woods? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Dylan was Chris's sponsor. Oh, no shit. And Dylan

came on Dopee recently and I confided in him on Dopee that I'm sponsoring a kid who smokes weed and and should i take this kid through the steps yeah and dylan's like he's like if you were smoking weed would you want someone to give you a spiritual experience to the 12 steps and i said no i wouldn't fucking care i'd be smoking weed and he goes well that's why i think you should give this kid a spiritual experience through the 12 steps and i was like okay so i'm sponsoring this kid who's willing to do everything but he really doesn't want to stop smoking weed he has co-occurring mental

health issues. He's decided that cannabis is better for him than X SSRI, X sleep aid, X, anti-anxiety, all these things that in AA, it's okay if you're prescribed at low dose of clonopin, if you're on Lexapro, if you're on Ambien, whatever. But weed is this taboo thing. And it's just interesting because it's like nobody. How old is a kid? I think he's 31. Yes. I mean, that's where I, the weed thing is confusing to me I think I put up this post I mean

I had a meltdown because I put up this post about marijuana a couple like a month or two ago and I saw that with current marijuana and how strong it is the army came after me

right I mean I lost thousands of followers like people really came like the marijuana advocates in this country are and I tried to engage them in a way that felt okay to them

and they didn't even want that and all I was really trying to say is that I'm not so sure smoking today's weed for an 18 and 19 year old kid is good in any capacity. Because it's so strong. See, the way I look at it, I love weed. I feel high to this day from the weed I smoked when I smoked. And all I say about it is like I couldn't do it. If I did it, I'd be smoking every day. And if I was smoking every day, maybe I'd start taking penzos. And if I started taking penzos, maybe I'd take opiates. And if I started taking opiates, maybe I'd shoot. Right. I mean, it's funny because there is no heroin, I know.

No, it's all fentanyl. Is there any heroin left? No, I was talking to someone, who was I talking to? Someone that just got, someone that just cleaned up off heroin, and he was telling me that, maybe it was one of our patients, but he was just, he was telling me that it's all fentanyl. I mean, you could, he was smoking it. So he said, you know, when you smoke fentany you know the difference between that and pills and heroin and i don't and then it's a zylozine have you seen the xylazine have you seen this shit this is i've read about it it's like eating it eats it your flesh but it's so i mean it's weird i was interviewing this woman today and she has less than 90 days and she was making fun of people who were relapsing on cradum and she's like go do real

drugs and i'm like i'm like are you saying they should go do she was like they should go do And then I was like, well, isn't there no heroin? And she's like, yeah, they should do fentanyl. And I was like, are you really making, are you really saying on the show that they should go do fentanyl? And she started laughing because it's so ridiculous. It's something old school drug addicts say, this pussy, they should fucking just do heroin, whatever, whatever.

But now there's no heroin. So all you can say is go do fentanyl, which means like, chances are you're going to die. But I say that as a 51 year old who never did fentanyl. I was strung out on heroin for 12, 13 years, never did fentanyl. So in my 51-year-old psyche, I'm like, if you do fentanyl, you're going to die. But I know there's a world of people out there that are casual fentanyl users or devout fentanyl users who haven't died. Yep.

And, like, they're not thinking they're going to die. They're not thinking it's a death sentence for them. No, it's confusing. And weed is very confusing, for sure. It's scary. I mean, I will be the guy that will, I'll see a 21-year-old smoking a jewel and drinking a white claw. I want to knock it out of his hand and give him like a marlboro red and a Budweiser and say stop. Same thing, right, same thing.

You're smoking on a USB thing and drinking a seltzer. Have a beer. Don't be opposed to. Do you think the dude you're sponsoring is like eventually going to give up weed? what I said to him because I really like the kid and he's really he calls me every day

we're on step seven like he's he's in it you know I just said as long as you have an open mind about not smoking weed one day does he go to meetings yeah how are the people treating him in the meetings he doesn't tell them

and I don't tell him to tell them got it I don't think he needs to tell them like what do they fucking need to know he tells me I tell my sponsor. My sponsor was like, I would take someone through, and he talks with a thick Long Island accent. So he's like, I'd fucking take somebody on Suboxin, but not someone who smokes weed. And I'm like, well, why? What's the difference? I was like, in the end, it's like, if somebody's seeking a spiritual experience, it's like, I feel great to try to help them

achieve that. Well, so you are someone that you lost Chris, you lost Todd, you've lost people. So anything to keep people alive at this point, I, that's how I see. it because if you're alive there's hope there's hope and if there I mean like hope is such the best thing yeah what's next I don't know world domination fucking world domination

what do you consider world domination like here's a thing Dave like I sit here with you and I think about the impact you've made on the recovery community and it's very interesting a lot of people that in your shoes would want to be kind of making the refer like you really just have this good heart and you want to make it funny and you want to make it

accessible and you keep an open mind and I think that's probably fueled a lot of your, you know, success if you want to, you know, call it that. If I had my druthers, what would I want? Yeah. They're trying to sell a documentary about dopey. I mean, I have my big plan. They sell the documentary about dopey.

As soon as they sell it, I write my book proposal. I get a deal for the book. As they make the documentary, I write out the book. The documentary comes out to great reviews. Then the documentary turns into a TV show, which is like dopey, but a TV. show with long form interviews kind of the Anthony Bourdain angle but I want Zach to do part of it

our show is going to have fucking like cooking in the in the halfway house karaoke in the detox go to Kensington in China yeah let's go to China barbecue and Kensington whatever that lasts for a couple seasons at the same time the book gets turned into a movie

there's a movie actors playing me and Chris and then I'm old enough to retire and stop working at Cathsism and that's my plan so are you is what's under because I get look I get that I hear you are you is it what's underneath all that right like

because I I used to hear people say like why do you want to be an actor or someone would say why they want to be an actor and they're like I don't want to be famous and I just think that's bullshit I think anybody and it doesn't mean if it's good or bad necessarily but any person who is seeking a public is a part of them that wants that I've always wanted to be famous Because why?

Because I'm not enough Do you remember where that really came from or no Because it doesn't have to come from anywhere I mean but do you remember? I loved that stupid show Rambling with Gambling I loved Regis Philbin Like I would watch Regis Philbin And he'd make the other people laugh

And he looked like he was chilling And I was like I want that I liked weathermen I was like oh I'd like to do the weather And they look like they're relaxed I think I'm such a nervous, anxious person that when I saw someone in a public place that seemed relaxed, I was like, that's what I want to do. I like the idea of fame because it would mean a lot of people liked me. I think I would like that.

I think I would like to be recognized and appreciated because I have low self-esteem and because I think everybody likes to be recognized and appreciated. I think I love chilling. I love making people laugh. I love connecting with people. So all of those things are part of what I do. And I'm so grateful to do it. Every week I do two shows. And every week, the second show is the free show.

And when I'm putting that together, I get like original music and I have weird voicemails that the audience sends in. And I play music at the end. And sometimes I'll take a stand. And there'll be a long interview. And every time I'm done with it, I'm just like, I really love doing this. I mean, the song at the end is a song I wrote.

The song at the beginning is usually a song, an audience member wrote. The theme song is a song my old band played. Like, it's just, I love the kind of fucked up shit about it. The tapestry of creativity. I like it. You're good at it. Thank you. I like it.

It's fun. Has social media helped a little bit? I don't know. It's whatever. I pay this amazing Canadian woman. to run the social media and she's so much better at it than I am and she does all those memes

and she just steals them we just steal the memes you know like I don't think social media does anything but make you feel worse about yourself and want more you know yeah I'm with you I'm ready to cut the cord on the smartphone well I run cats's social media

and I posted a brisket sandwich yesterday that was brisket with gravy melted Swiss and more gravy and in three days we hit 1.1 million and I got a little bit high. A little high. A little bit. You put the sandwich together too? No, no. Juan Carlos. You just took the picture? No, no, I

shoot the video. Oh. And maybe we'll talk about what's going on the sandwich. What's that sandwich cost? I would say that sandwich cost $28 but it's also definitely more food than one person. That's not that bad. No. You're splitting out three ways. I would split it two. waste, but $14. I just spent $15 on a salad. No, the prices are crazy.

I mean, we're doing our food for our clinic, the guys who are in Ph.P up and purchased. And I was looking at the catering menu. Sandwiches up in Westside and White Plains are $18 a pop. There you go. And only one person's eating that. Right. One person. Yeah.

I mean, we're paying for it because they're in our program. So I went to school and purchase. And SUNY? Sunni purchase. It's the first place I did heroin. So what are we going to do together? I want to help you lift you up. You're going to, don't be kind of how do people find you?

you just go any to google dopey podcast go to dopey podcast in any podcast places or any social media i want to help you with your tv career i want you back at dopey con this year we're doing this crazy show on saturday i'm assuming the show will have this won't air yeah so it's a big show in l.a with uh supposedly bobby lee margaret chow jack osborne rich roll bob forest Annie Letterman and a cavalcade of dopes. Maybe you'll take a moment this weekend and say like, oh, this is a pretty cool poster and these people are pretty cool and I should respect myself. I respect myself and I am proud of what I've accomplished and I'm super excited.

Good. And I like to take shots at myself, but dude, it was bad and my life is a billion times better than it ever was. And with all that with losing your co-host, your good friend, you know, and people of the community, did you ever think about using? No. I mean, I think about smoking weed all the time.

I like the idea of smoking weed. I do. I hated it. I love, but I'm a stoner. I like aspire to be shaggy from Scooby-Doo. You could smoke a joint and just, like, lay back on your bed.

Yeah. I would have to go play basketball. I would have to go run. I was parents, the thoughts were so overpowering that I had to fucking go. Like, whoever was the guy that was smoked the weed

and take the bong hit and be like put on the music and be oh that was not me that was me oh and i'm still high i get it i'm still high from then i get it like it's a miracle but i would love it too but that was me it's just not never everybody has different brain chemistry yeah you know everyone like how many do cocaine i loved heroin i love heroin i love heroin you like coke i didn't like coke that made you paranoid no it just made me uncomfortable didn't do anything good for me it makes some people feel uh euphoric and full of life and like they can talk to people. It made me feel uncomfortable.

It made me want to drown myself in Benzos, which is how I felt anyway. Benzos were the thing. I never did. I never did heroin, but, you know, cocaine, like, made you so aware of the feeling that you were chasing that it just, like, amplified that experience. But the problem with is that it went away and then you needed more. Then you needed more and then you needed more. Fast.

Yeah. So it was terrible. Terrible. It was been great, dude. Let me know when I can come back. on next week okay let's do it all right cool yeah I mean it feels very bizarre interviewing you so I hope we got your story out there and I just respect the heck out of you I respect the heck out of you too it's super fun yeah yeah anything else you good

I'm good thanks for bugging the shit out of us thanks guys thank you