The Zac Clark Show - From Living An Alcoholic Double Life To Successful Entrepreneur As Founder Of FROPRO | Matt Williams

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

Matt Williams fell far. He spent years living a double life—school teacher by day and bartender grappling with a growing alcohol and cocaine problem by night—yet he knew he was destined for something better. After a life-altering DUI arrest that landed him in jail, Matt made the courageous decision to seek help, embracing sobriety and a new outlook on life. From that pivotal moment, he experienced a meteoric rise to a life worth living. Bolstered by the unwavering support of his wife, Chelsea, their strength and determination not only transformed Matt’s life but also birthed FROPRO, a nutrition-rich snack bar. FROPRO is much more than a healthy snack; it represents tenacity, creativity, and a commitment to healthy living. In this conversation, we explore Matt’s incredible journey from addiction to entrepreneurial success. He discusses the importance of resilience, the challenges of building a business from the ground up, and the core values that drive FROPRO—handcrafted, plant-based, and dedicated to supporting the local recovery community. This uplifting episode is about personal growth, the power of a supportive community, and how FROPRO is more than just a snack bar; it’s a movement toward better living. Join us to hear Matt’s inspiring story and discover how he’s raising the bar for himself and others every day! To learn more about FROPRO: https://gofropro.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqNf0AZVATlaDU_r0ncf9W3lakTFpwk-sbKtHkPC6zd1CyF3tRl Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right. Welcome back to the Zach Clark show. I am really excited. One of my favorite people in the whole world. Matt Williams. What's up, Matt is with us today. Matt is just one of these guys that he's a calm healing energy. He has a calm healing energy. And I'm just grateful here. Like, dude, I was thinking about it before we were talking. And you're still. stories inspiring and what you've done with pro pro shout out pro pro is incredible so we're going to get into all that but like dude i'm like i'm needing a check-in like two sober dudes yeah i and maybe this is selfish of me but so over 13 years the last really week but like two weeks I've had a depression that I believe is actually depression and not like whatever I'd had before I think was probably some form of sadness fear yeah I saw you speak on that you mentioned that I think in either one of your last shows or in one of your posts yeah I was like I love that I don't love that you're going through it but I love that you shared it yeah so

and part of what I do when I'm in this is like check in, you know, with other people. So how are you doing? Man, I'm doing great. I'm grateful to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I can relate to that feeling. I just celebrated my 43rd birthday, which is pretty crazy.

Happy birthday. But yeah, it's like I feel when there's a lot of things that you're involved in, a lot of events or a lot of community, it can get a little overwhelming. Just did a fundraiser for a charity that's local to. South Florida, which was pretty remarkable, where I had to do essentially book a ball. Yeah, you were on your dancing with the stars. It's like fundraising for, you know, for kids that, you know, need assistance getting into, you know, trade school, college and whatnot. But it was a very uncomfortable thing. I don't mind performing. I don't mind, you know,

I used to sing in a band, like love all that. But doing something where I had to train for like five months. And in the back my head, even though I was training, I was like, I'm going to mess this up. I'm going to embarrass myself my family's going to be there all these community people are going to be there we sponsored the event um so i get that feeling you know that that feeling where it's like i can get overwhelmed i can get a little anxious um but you know have the tools to to work through that and the people in my life that i can call on which uh is immensely helpful uh but yeah no i mean it's i i love the authentic like i love the authenticity of that it's like how many people really want to share like yeah i have all this really great stuff going on and i really love my life but i still have

those feelings of like i can go in a couple days of like immense sadness and my wife chelso would be like what's going on like you're doing everything i'm i'm doing my routine my program my protocol and i still can feel that uh you know yeah i mean dude i I think I learned early in my sobriety that there's one story, the truth. I say it all the time. I don't know how to kind of not be vulnerable. And today is a perfect example. I woke up everything on paper, everything on paper in my life right now is good.

Right. It is good. Which is why mental health, depression, anxiety is so confused. using because it wants me alone in my thoughts and I saw something this week that said rumination is one of the number one symptoms of depression and it made so much sense to me because I feel like that's a lot of what I've been going through but this morning I dude it's a Monday Eagles won yesterday like I'm I should have jumped out of bed like it was Christmas morning. I had an amazing opportunity to give an interview on ABC on their live kind of

digital platform, which was going to touch a lot of people. I then got to go out and play Sleepy Hollow, which is a golf course up in Westchester this afternoon. I get to come and do this podcast with you. And despite all those things, I can't shake this feeling. You know, I can't shake this feeling. And it's one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast and I wanted to start having these conversations with guys like you because one, a lot of my listeners are women and they have men in their lives.

So I think it's helpful for them to hear conversations like this. And then the other subset of listeners are men who are too scared. to say some of this stuff out loud. And what happens to me, I realize when I'm depressed is I lose focus. I forget stuff. I begin to think I'm a fraud. And so I'm just starting the episode there, man,

like putting it on the middle of the table because I feel like I needed to. And also to just say, I'm grateful that you're willing to sit across me and hold this space and to feel safe talking with another man. about this absolutely yeah it's a i think it there needs to be a lot more of it and again there are times in my life where i couldn't do this you know i think we've been at that place

where it's like man i don't i don't know if i can you know even get honest with the people that i love the most um you know in when we're in or when i was in active addiction and i think you know being able to voice your feelings and and say it's like you know sometimes i feel like I have to always be on, right? It's like when you are building something or you have a business or you're out in the community, it's like you can't have a human moment. And if you do, someone's like, well, what's your problem? And I struggle with that.

And there's times where like, you know, like you said, everything on paper looks great. But there's that feeling that sometimes comes in where I simply am like, I don't know what it is. My marriage is great. my program is great my family is great my businesses are great feeling good in the gym i'm getting to do all these other things like pickleball and golf and like living this life that i was desperately seeking for so long and then living it and being like why am i you know and then i then i i'm i i i beat myself up so then i'll be my wow you can't feel like this and you know why you're you're i'm grateful and like I like that like you said it'll it'll you know you said rumination but I think

overthinking I'm like in here just like and even talking about it and my with my wife it's you know or my sponsor or any anybody for that matter like it does lessen it but it doesn't entirely go away um which can be scary sometimes yeah the crazy thing for me is like I over the last 48 hours have been very vocal and reach out to my circle and finally kind of pull the ripcord on on being honest about where i'm at which is a big step for me but then once i do that i don't want people following up you know i don't want people then coming back hey how you doing how you doing how you doing how you doing how you doing i'm like no you don't fucking get it i'm just telling you that i'm not doing well because i need to get it out i don't actually want people up in my shit right i i i have a

i have a buddy that calls me and and i'm like what are we doing he's like is this a dumping session or or do you want feedback and sometimes it's a dumping session sometimes it's now i actually want to hear what you have to say and you know and and you know i'm open to it and and i have to do the same thing it's you know it's like i don't call sometimes i call someone it's like hey this is what's going on i just want you to listen and not that i don't want to hear what you have to say i have a pretty good idea of what you're going to say but i just i just need to get this off my chest and like out of my head yeah it's like someone tried to give me a hug yesterday and I was like I like no do not do that like clammed up and because I I you know I I shut down but

classic and then we're going to get into your story but I needed this first five minutes so I love to you thank you you know and the only thing I'll say about that too is you know, saying it out loud and then like putting it on a pot, then I'm asking for more people to check in and say I'm here for you. And like, yeah, I get that. I get that. But I made like the one magical phone call, which was to my mom. And like, dude, I could, I could cry.

Because moms have this special intuition and this special thing. And I have a special relationship with my mom, but I called her. And I'm always hesitant to tell her when I'm not feeling well. Right. Because I don't want her to worry. She worried for so many years. And I finally told her to, Mom, I just, I got this to, I can't shake it. And she said, well, Zach, it's because you spend so much time worrying about other people.

And you forget to worry about yourself. Maybe you should try putting yourself first. And it just hit me. You know, it hit me that. I need to kind of look at that and I need to trust my mom and I need to understand that I can still give and I can still want to help and I can still try to, you know, pay it forward like we do. Yeah. But also understand that I cannot be everything to everyone. It's a heavy statement.

Yeah. I get it. We want to be. We want to be. Of course. I mean, I want to be able to do it. We're helpers. dude right you and i are helpers i feel like because we took a lot we took a lot for a long time

and i don't know if you live with that like do you live with that thing where it's like i need to prove to everyone every single day that i'm never going to be that person again and i need to make up for all that lost time like i don't know i i i live a lot of my life that way yeah no i can i that's definitely a feeling that has come up over the years of of being sober and you know even a couple years into it, I, you know, did a deep dive in one of those, the Dickens, the Dickens process or whatever it's called. And I was still telling myself, like, you're a failure. You're never going to succeed. And, you know, I was, you know, three years in and still kind of figuring some things out. And I mean, we're always figuring things out. But I remember telling myself that.

And I was so, and then I went into beating myself. I'm like, why am I feeling like this? And I'm putting it out there. I'm like gut-wrenching, crying in a room full of thousands of people that are going through, whatever they're going through in this. process and it was eye-opening and I'll never forget it but those I think are like those cathartic moments where it's like a good cry a good scream or a good I got to call my mom I got a call and put it out there and hopefully hear what they have to say and realize like you know it's like I just had my mom my mom came down for the event flew in 80 83 I think at this point She flew in, and there was a picture of her that the professional photographer got,

and I see her sitting there, like, just like this, like watching me dance, and it was like the look of, like, she was worried for me that I was hopefully going to get the routine right. And, like, of course, we go through this whole thing, we win, and it's so exciting. And I remember I was driving her to the airport, and she's just like, I'm just really proud of you, and your daddy would have been, too. And, like, my dad's been dead a long time, and, you know, never saw me as a sober man, which I had to constantly work. I had to constantly work on an early sobriety

and I've come to a good place with it. But that hits me and I think, you know, my dad was a good man. I'm the only one in my family that suffers from, you know, addiction. And, you know, she said that. And then she followed it up because this is how my mom is. She's like, you know, don't let all that success go to your head. Yeah.

And I was like, man, mom. You know, like she, and that's, that's a, she is man and and she always is like you know that's where i get the what's next from from her it's like you know you do good she's like great she's like that's awesome we celebrate that's awesome she's like what's next i know you're you're working to do this and to do that and you know for so many years i squandered that and you know made her worry and have you know that phone call is is my son in jail or is he dead or you know what's happening so it's uh it's it's crazy to be It's crazy sometimes where I have to stop and really just be like I'm in the green grass.

I don't need, I'm, I'm good. Yeah. You know. Yeah, I know for me and probably for you, like the drugs and the alcohol were the, we're the armor. Take that away. And now I'm living life for all. Like, I am raw.

And it can be scary at times to not have that thing to reach for that I know. You know, like in third, like I've never like triggered. wanting to drink like all like for me that's not really a thing it's it's sorry i don't want to cut you know it's like it's that emotional stuff right you know that i don't want that temporary relief that some form of drug or alcohol is going to give me but i do want some relief and if i talk about it and still not going away it's like what is that is like do i go work out you know do i channel it to something else like do i go get competitive and play this or do that or or or whatnot and you know thankfully and and i used to hear this when i used to hear this when i used to

used to come around where they're like, it's not about the drink or the drug for me. And I would always be like, oh, man, F that guy. Like, and I'm, you know, early in it. But now I, I'm starting to understand, like, it's that emotional sobriety. It's, you know, it's like you said, you can wake up and it should be at Christmas. It's some days I wake up and everything's great. And it's like, how am I going to stir the pot and create some chaos today? Yeah, that thought will come into my head and I'm like, why am I thinking?

Like, that's not a good thought. That's not helpful. That's not being. sober man right and I can let it run and then I'm sure you know it's like then I'll have those conversations I should have said this to that person you know 10 years ago and revisit a conversation that pops into my head about you know my my my brain and my thoughts are trying to kill me and try to just like weaken me so I'm like yeah let me let me let me stir the pot let me pick a fight you know let me let me let me do something that's uncharacteristic or

something that's going to really you know shake things up of it and then then I have to clean that up because that doesn't feel good either yeah I mean that's why people always say I'll have people at release some of our patients or clients will we'll talk about wanting to act out and people get so confused families get so confused okay they put down the drink in the drug but now they're like having sex like a crazy person they're gambling they're addicted to their phone pick up smoking whatever it is it's the dopamine man Yeah, it's the dopamine hit that, you know, isn't available in the same way, but we'll find it. We'll make some bad decisions, just bad enough to we walk, like, to the edge, be like, nah, I'm good now.

I'm like, hopefully walk away. Six feet from the edge, man. Yeah, yeah. All right, so let's reboot here. Maddie Williams, I mean, this guy, just to reintroduce him, he's the founder of Fro Pro, which we're going to get into, their, their come on. up is coming. I am actually convinced of that. Him and his wife started this company many years ago. So we're going to hear that story out of like a garage in Dore Beach, which is insane to me. But I remember like my, my moment where I knew you were going to make

it was my deli on 20th and 7th. You know, it has a wide variety of snacks and, and, um, provisions. And I walked in and like I saw the pro pro pro one day and I just smiled. I was like Maddie. I was like Maddie, because I had first learned about it when we ran the marathon like 2014 or 15. I mean, this was a long time ago. Yeah, we met in like 2015 before the 2016 marathon for Runwell. Yeah. It was Runwell, yeah. So he's been a part of my life for a long time.

So he's an entrepreneur. He's a sober man. He got sober in 2010. So we're going to get into that story. And the important thing, kind of how like the legal system, the DIY, like, like, I want to hear about how much of that for you was like having to. I'm very curious because people get sober in a lot of different ways. You also kind of do some work in the recovery field. You own a gym.

Like you're doing a lot. You're doing a lot. You're like me. You go pretty hard. And I've had an awesome time just watching you glow up. And I think the year of Maddie Williams is like here. I believe that, man. I appreciate it.

I believe that. And I'm happy. Working hard for it. Yeah. You deserve it. You deserve it. It's like, the older I get, the harder I root for other people. I mean, I was a competitive son of a bitch, like, or growing up.

Yeah. The older I get, man, I'm like, take it a whole thing. Yeah, there's plenty of cake for everybody. Yeah. Plenty of cake. So let's get into the, you grew up where? So I grew up in Westchester, New York, which is right down the street. Used to do, you know, used to do some damage in the city, you know, did the whole bar-tet

thing here in Stanford, Connecticut. But yeah, I grew up in Westchester, youngest of three, great parents, great childhood, small school, public school, you know, never really played the sports until I realized, like, you know, I was the outdoor run around kid, you know, catching stuff, whatever I could do, because I had no, you know, back then, I mean, like ADD was probably a thing, but I had no focus. I just like being outside and run around barefoot, you know, let's play wiffleball, let's go play bad men, let's go, you know, run around the golf court, it is. Um, and yeah, great childhood, great friends, cul-de-sac, basements. One of three, and your parents, so your, your dad passed. My dad passed. Still, still living. She's in. Where are your siblings.

Uh, middle brother and his family are in Nashville and oldest brother and his wife are in Vermont. Those two, my niece and nephew. I mean, my, my brothers are significantly older than me. So I'm a surprise. They are 11 and 14 years older than I, uh, than I am. So it's, it's a pretty cool thing you know my you know your smile when you say niece and nephew yeah i hope they see that yeah no they're amazing i just watched my nephew graduate or my my oldest oldest brother's son graduate and i was so cool it was so cool to go up to vermont and watch him you know collect a degree and you know my niece is super smart and they're just like two individuals that are just you know living their best life never struggled with this you know he he in fact loves like the art

of bartending and mixing and and serving and being that that guy but not how I did it you know and my niece is incredibly intelligent and then you know my you know my other nephew's just like super smart great kid just like big baseball fan big big like family my family is amazing I feel like we missed the boat on that a little bit Like this whole like Fuck man Like I go out with my friends And there's all these different beers

And tequillas and drinks Like it was a pack of Marlboro Reds A 12 pack of natural light A flask of Captain Morgan And like we're going Natty light man Now kids are fucking smoking On these USB cords

Vaping whatever the fuck that is And Call that the Del Rey douche flute Oh dude it is Like smoke a cigarette Smoke a cigarette Oh yeah So, I feel like we miss the boat on a lot of it.

I've never, I've never taken a hit of a vape, you know? Yeah, it's, uh, it's one of those, it's, it's, it's like, I never understood it. And then I remember, like, I have a bunch of buddies that do it. And I was like, let me see what this is all about. And it like, oh, I was like, oh, oh, that, like, I got like, I just like, I don't understand this. It smells like strawberry and diapers and it's, it's very off-putting. I don't, it just, it's not for me.

me um but yeah man childhood is great loved everything about it you know pursued uh pursued teaching and coaching um so i was an elementary school teacher so you're like running around in the yard like bringing frogs back to your mom and like you know like catching caterpillars and night flies at lightning bugs at night well badminton rackets we used to like this is terrible but i used to like want to see them explode so i would hit the fireflies and they'd glow everywhere i mean it's kind messed up but when you grow up when you grew up in westchester summers are amazing you know it's like i grew up on like an event lap a public golf course which is now um trump national and you know i ran around there as a kid and like you know the kid across you know the kids across the golf course

would go out and play golf because it was a public course you know you were different though i i didn't feel different in the regards of of like i wasn't like really good at sports i was I was good at a lot of different things, and I was like, I could, I could hang with the guys that played the sports. I could hang with the crew that played, you know, band and jazz band. I could, you know, sing because, like, I grew up doing that. My mom was, you know, a singer and a performer, and she would always take me to auditions. And, like, can you still rip it?

I can rip it. Yeah. I love it. Give me an audio, audio slave. Give me, I mean, I just saw, I just saw Creed like two nights ago. Oh, geez. stab oh my god dude you're on the creed where was i recently that there was creed was in oh i was in saratoga for travers dude and creed was there

every cover band in that entire city was playing creed all weekend by well i just heard the news today yeah oh man i tell you went get me out of here it was crazy man it was creed hell it was it was it was it was an epic show though because was it honestly though you know three songs you know you know like some of the new stuff i had heard but like Like, knowing what he went through and watching him from the bottom get to that over the last nine, ten years. Sober Scott's that? Yeah. Pretty epic.

Because, like me now. Yeah. I mean, when I tell you, I'm such a sucker. You tell me someone sober like, I love that guy. Yeah. I mean, but it was one of those things. Like, when you have a conversation and, you know, it's like anybody else's journey, right? It's like, you know, we got sober and it's like, look what you're building and look in how many lives you're impacting and watching someone go from selling out stadiums to feeling like they're never going to do something again.

And then nine years later, back, 20,000 people singing a song that you wrote in the 90s. I just looked at my wife. I was like, this is fucking amazing. yeah um but yeah no i mean like i i just i grew up that way i grew up like doing the broadway thing i love i mean new york you know we come every year for my wife's birthday to see a show um love broadway love music love sports and i kind of like when i got sober i realized it was like i could what they call it be a chameleon and like hang out with different groups because i was the guy i love i love you kind of can do everything i just loved being around people and it was like i could never

you know at the you know i was in a frat and i was like i could never work the door because I would let in everyone because I wanted everyone to have fun. I wanted everybody to be as fucked up as me to have fun to do, you know, even if we were at, like, I just love people. And, and that's where the funny thing is because once, you know, like you said, it's like, you know, you kind of like retracted from a hug, but like the minute people got close to me or started to be like, what's, what's going on with you or what's wrong with you or, you know, like something's not right i'd be like yeah cool man like kick rocks like you know like we're good we don't you know and i would never tell that to them i would just like slowly remove myself from

communication um but it's uh yeah when's the first drink or do you remember your first i remember the manipulation of it because it was a warm sam adams in my friends my two doors down so funny enough like this is how cliche it is i i live next to the the Wilson's like like from Dennis the Menace like the Wilson's it was me the Wilson's and then one of my other buddies and we lived on a dead end street five houses and we took one of his dad's Sam Adams warm we drank it we we hid the bottle and nothing happened and like we didn't get drunk or anything we're kids but like we got away with it and I will and I love that getting aware with it or just yeah like no one

finding out and like how old probably like 10, 9, 10. Oh, that young. Yeah. I love first drink stories. I think I was like 12 or 13, 14 maybe. I forget, but nine or two, that's young. Like my brothers were older and getting married and like I, you know, they let me smoke cigars at the wedding.

Like, I wasn't drinking it like like that. But what for me, well, you know, being with such a small town, it's like that one upsmanship started because like someone would bring something and you'd see them like, oh yeah, they brought this. And you're like, oh, man. Growing up, did you know? that you were much younger than your siblings and do you think that contributed to no because they they weren't they weren't big into that scene they were like sports just like the fact that you were kind of an only child yeah no I think you know like I had them as examples of like really like strong in music strong in sports and I had all that like

connection to them and some you know some people when we go visit my oldest brother at school like some people thought my parents were the grandparents and i was his kid because like of the difference like 14 years so when he's in you know 20 and i'm six they're like is this your son and they're like no it's my little brother my parents you know had a you know had a surprise you know so yeah yeah none of that none of that none of that felt different until i really accelerated like my my drinking and like i would always be that guy like you know you sleep over as you go to your buddy's house and I would be so you know I'm gonna say like drunk I would I was like a lightweight I would be so drunk that I would be the first one to sleep so the parents thought I was like

the good kid going to sleep 11 12 13 years old yeah we were like yeah 13 14 and then we had a couple friends that looked older you know that like could get booze and like look like you know they were of age and you know it's this again smoking I not marbo it's camels for me yeah you know getting the camels getting the camel red lights getting the 40s you know, getting the things like from the, you know, the gas station and the town over. It was fun. Yeah, and it was great. And, you know, none of that, you know.

Do they drink 40s anymore? I think they do. They do. Yeah. They don't play like the games that I think we used to with like the bottles and all that crazy stuff. Oh, that was like, no, you were tape. It was Edward 40 hands or something like that where you tape it and you couldn't put it down until you finished it. But it was, it became that chase of like who could drink the fastest, who could get the most messed up, who could bring the most of the party.

And it was like at then, it was like booze and weed. You know, and, like, I didn't tap into that heavy stuff until, until college. So this is your 10, 11, 12, 15, drinking. Yeah, playing sports. 95, 96, 97. Yeah, mid-90s. What high school? Briarcliffe High School.

You're a Brikeleth, high school. And, yeah, small school. And that's the thing. And that's where Sleepy Hollow is, right? I mean, that's... Sleepy Hollow is right, yeah, right next door. It's like, yeah, it's Briarcliffe, Austining, Sleepy Hollow, Pleasantville, Westlake, all these small towns where it's like...

everybody knows each other and that's the thing it's like you live in a small town and you know i got in a little bit of trouble here and there but when you know you know it's like you know the right people you know the judge or like they're like mattie you know why are you here like well i mean like from what i understand kids they get caught drinking now in high school there's actually a punishment you don't you can't play in the football game friday night or you're suspended from school when we were in we're in high school i caught drinking it was like go to your room we'll talk about it never you know like we had so Yeah, that changed for us.

They brought him this, like, new principal, and he brought him, like, a dean of discipline, even though it was a public school. And this guy, I mean, it was a pretty gnarly story because this guy was not a good person and it came out later on that he was not fit to work with kids. But, like, he made it a mission to, like, ruin the core group of guys that, like, played sports.

And, like, he would give you detention. You have a game. And he'd be like, yep, no. And for little things, he was like that. It was a manipulate, like, when you look at it years later, what, like, who he turned out to be. and the game that he played with like all of us like oh yeah you're you're sitting out you're not playing in the game you're not doing this oh you know and i mean there were time like my mom would

like had to come into school and be like can you not suspend my son for like the most ridiculous stuff he's supposed to be in school not sitting in a detention box all day doing paperwork like to that like extent i would appreciate my random questions and yes yeah hit me what i was thinking about when you were talking and thinking about you drinking at 11, 12, 15, 17 years old. One of the things we're seeing right now in this country is that a lot of young people are dying because they're trying drugs. They shouldn't be trying at a young age.

And I always think about because my brother and sister have children that are growing and a couple of them are almost to the point where they might be starting to sneak some beers, my nieces and nephews. And I try to have open conversations with them. and I know you don't have kids, but there's kind of two sets of parents. There's the parents who say, I'm going to let my kids drink under my roof.

I'm going to take their keys and I'm going to kind of teach them to drink. That was not. And then there's the kind of parent that is, that is, you're not drinking because you're not of age. Yeah. Where do you think you fall?

I fell into that second category. No, where do you, if you were a parent, where would you fall? So, yeah, the funny thing is, As somebody that was in the educational field and teaching and, you know, like, I'm a hard ass when it comes to that stuff. You are. But at the same time, you know, when I, you know, and I've spoken since getting sober with a lot of families that, you know, the last grade I taught was fourth. So these kids are not grown up and they're like active members of society.

But when some of them struggled, you know, along the way, I would get calls from families and like, hey, can you come? And I'm like, I'm not coming in here to do a dare program. I'm not to like warn them like don't do this don't do that I'm going to share experiences and I'm going to share at the time I had worked at this one place that I went through it that I went to treatment in back in you know 2010 and I would be very very real and very vocal and be like you know you know what you're doing is is is fine here are the results never consequences here are the results that's how I looked at it's like here the results if you do this if you know mom and dad can't protect you if you get in a car and you you hit someone kill someone you know doesn't matter how much

money you have from both whatever it is but like here's where you can end up um or this is the path you're going down and these are the results of doing those things right whatever you decide to do you're going to do because i how many times someone said dude don't drink and drive and i was like yeah yeah okay i want to go home like like fuck off i'm going home to the point where i would go to a place people take my keys but like sickly enough i had like a plastic key that could like like, if I really wanted to go home, I had an extra set of keys that I would go home. And it was like, you know, I'm not proud to say it, but it was part of my story. And it was like, that's the thing I always share.

It's like, when I was drinking, I was just drinking and drinking. And it was never like to the, it was never an active decision to be, I'm going to get blackout drunk and blah, blah, blah, maybe one or two times where it's just like whatever for some event. But there was never an off switch. So if I was like sitting in this room and drinking and it could go on for hours. but the minute, like, let's just say I got up to go, like, smoke a cigarette outside or, like, go to the bathroom, blackout. Right. And then I was sharing, like, before, you know, we set this up, you know, I don't like going

on the subway today. Like, coming from Central Park on the subway here still kind of creeps me out because I used to, you know, being here, if I didn't have my car or whatever, I would, I would wake up and someone, like, nudging me and, like, you're at the end of the line, son. I'm like, where do you think you are? And I'd have no idea. It's very uncomfortable to be on the subway. Blacking out's terrifying.

Terrifying. I blacked out many, many, many times. There were so many mornings when I would wake up and then run down. And I had this little window on my third floor and I would look out front to see if my car was there. Right. Exactly. And it would be there and I'd be like, and I would feel it for 30 seconds and then go call my friends and be like, where are we doing it at night? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there were so many times where that exactly. feeling. I mean, even retracing my steps when I lived in Stanford, I remember walking back off my shift to like a wine bar that was close to my house and I served. So, you know, like the draw string where you keep the papers and everything, I had left my car, walked and along the way, I retraced my steps and there was the notepad, there was the pen, there was the apron, there was this. Like, I guess I just decided to walk home and like strip down until I got to my house. And like there's just like a trail of like my shit from you know downtown

Stanford back to my home and it's like how how is that okay but in the same thing and then once I retrace my steps my cars find this my wallet what are we doing tonight right where are we going yeah that's something I want to get into because I think I feel like a lot of people are stopping drinking and we were talking about this and there's a variety of different levels to drinking and alcoholism, which I think is what makes it so confusing. But you, my friend, are not someone who, you earned your seat. I will say that. You earned your seat.

A couple, three DUIs, which I know you're not proud of, but it happened and we're here. Only one's on record. Okay. The only one's on record. So let's get to that. I want to kind of get to the miracle and what happens because I could sit here and tell drinking stories with you all day. I mean, it might serve some folks because, you know, at the end of the day, we're talking

about some stuff, which is like horrific, but we're doing it with a smile on our face with some gratitude because we're on the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, my thing is, you know, I ended up teaching in Connecticut, you know, I had gotten a job. I went to a small school in Pennsylvania, graduated, went the route of like doing some. What college?

Gettysburg. You went to the Edisbury. Yep. And, like, again, small liberal art school, you know, really cool experience to meet a lot of really fun people. You know, I had fun. I learned Spanish. I was a Spanish major. I traveled.

I lived abroad. I drank in other countries and just did a bunch of, you know, things that we don't need to talk about. Are you one of these guys that's good at everything you pick up, kind of? I don't want to say good at everything. Like, I can get a feel for everything. Like, I wouldn't say I'd do it well, but, like, I'm pretty decent. Like, my Spanish is off. I can hear it.

and process it, but my speaking, I don't speak it. I'm not living in, you know, a Spanish immersive Spanish speaking house. But it, uh, it, it, it just got to that, you know, that point of like, you know, go back, go to grad school, you know, living back at home, which was a little contentious because, you know, my dad was still alive and my mom, you know, my mom, you know, they knew I, they knew what I was. Um, and it was really putting a strain on the house because I was living there. I was going to school at Bridgeport, Connecticut for my master's. And, got another DUI and lost my car and had to take the bus and like I was like you know I share that like my my hometown there's a bus stop no one in my hometown takes the bus like I don't know why there's a

bus stop there but I used to have to walk I remember when I when I lost my license at one point one of the times I would have to walk from my parents house down to the bus stop and I remember people driving by and being like why is Matt waiting for the bus and people fuck man that's who you were man Yeah. And I was going to a job in Bedford as a, you know, in grad school as a, as a teacher without a car. And it was embarrassing. And it was because of my, my drinking. But so you were still drinking? Oh, yeah. Daily drinker? No, I was never a daily drinker. It was. Episodic. Yeah. It was once I started, it's like I couldn't stop. There was no like one or maybe there was like one in, I, I, I'd go home, but it was... I'm so happy here, dude.

So many people come on and they were like, I drank around the clock, I drank around the clock. No. People need to hear that alcoholism can be someone that drinks once a month. If you drink once a month and you get a DUI every time you drink, you might want to look at your drinking. Yeah.

And just like it says in like, you know, some of the literature we've read, it's like I would change the ways I would drink. I'm just going to have a shot every 30 minutes. I'm going to have a beer. And my biggest thing, and I loved alcohol was, you know,

when I was bartending and I was doing that and I was, you know, that I knew I didn't have to teach, and this is in the beginning, like, I knew I'd have to teach next day, it was I'd get off my shift, and they would know, there'd be two blonde ales and two Jamison shots, doubles, and it would just go, boom, boom, boom, sip the last beer. And that's how I would start my night, and then graduate into something that would keep me up a little bit longer. So I could keep doing my thing. And, you know, I had so many like you said you know the right people and you come into contact with those people like you're not like saying that you did cocaine out loud no i can say i did cocaine i i sometimes like

i'm on i i know i can speak freely here but sometimes when i share my story there's certain things that i have to leave out because it can um it's a certain thing where you only talk about alcohol so i got i i i will i will speak freely you're like worried if your mom's going to hear this no you're going to say you did cocaine it's going to find something out like you know no no no At 82 years old, like, Maddie, you never told me you did cocaine. No, nothing like that. Yeah, it was, it was, you know, I found that and that, that, that was an enhancer for me. But those are the things, like teaching every day.

And then, you know, I was, you know, tutoring. I was coaching, you know, sports. How many other teachers were living like you were? A crazy thing is teachers are a wild bunch. They are right? They like to rip it. And at least the teachers I knew. And it wasn't like once in a while.

And that's the thing. My drinking, like I said, it wasn't every day. But it's so crazy. In high school or like middle school, you walk into a classroom. And I would literally trust that person with my life. Oh, yeah. 100%. And four hours later, they're at the bar.

Boom, boom, boom. Rip in a line of Coke. Like, let's go. Yeah. And that's what finally, that's one of the things that finally broke me in 2010. But like leading up to that, it was just a series of bad mistakes. It was I would build things up, tear them down. I'd get into trouble.

I would receive consequences. I would lose my license. I would lose my car, crash it, figure out how to work around it, build it back up and tear it back down again. And, you know, of course, like a good alcoholic, you know, I had the chance to move down to Florida in 2009. I was down there visiting a buddy who was, I knew was sober. And I was like, where am I going to go for spring break?

And I was like, I'm a bad year for me. Yeah. And I'm going to, I was like, I'm going to go visit my buddy in Delray and just hang out. go to the beach, work out, and just not drink because he's not drinking and I'm staying with him and it worked. And I felt great. But while there, you know, the universe says that. The geographical. Yeah. That has that funny sense of humor where I got a job offer. I was like on a queue for like private schools and I was constantly feeling emails and this was one school that was like, hey, you know, what do you think about this? And I looked it up and I was like,

I'm like five minutes from there. And I reached out. I was like, hey, I'm actually happened to be in town. Do you mind if I come by and introduce myself rather than a phone interview or whatever? And they said, sure, went by, met everybody. I was like, man, this school is epic, beautiful campus, and just brand new everything. And just a very high end- Is you're 28? You have 27 at this time, visiting Delray Beach. And they fly me back out after I leave.

I teach a lesson. They offer me a job. And at the time, it's 2009. I wasn't, I didn't have tenure yet. and I wasn't going to be, you know, teaching. I had done a lot of maternity leave, so I would, like, come in when a teacher would get pregnant and teach the rest of the year.

And a couple of those, like, I thought would turn into permanent, and they didn't. And I had a great relationship, but it had an opportunity to move to Florida, and I moved. I packed up my Jeep Wrangler softop and drove down to Florida and found Delray Beach, Atlantic Avenue. And I was like, I've arrived. Yeah, I'm 27.

I am single, you know. I'm living at someone's house. And you know, I mean, it was Gettysburg. It was northeast. It was kind of this small town. Yeah. And I, and I, you know, the only, yeah, I was pumped. You know, by the beach.

I'm playing beach volleyball, you know, like the Ave was great. Like, oh, I could, I could find a bar, like, I could find a place to Bart team. Oh, yeah. Literally the first day I met my co-teacher down on the Ave. And we, and she met me for a drink. And like, she's like, what do you? going to do now? I was like, I'm just going to hang and check out the app. And I ended up back and this, I was staying at a friend, a different friend that, you know, like, he was like,

you can live here until you find something. And the next day, we all went to the beach and he kind of pulled me aside. And he was like, hey, man, like, I don't know if you realize what you were like last night. I didn't sign up for that. And you can't do that here. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, just don't do that here. And like, I don't think you understand where you are because if you veer off the Ave in certain areas like they're not good areas to veer off and I'm like dude city like DC like all these places like I know what I'm doing he's like no I you really don't it was like he kind of scolded me and I was like you know fuck you kind of but I heard what he said and I moved out of there probably a month later because another co-teacher

had a house or had an apartment that she was lease was renting out and I was like perfect it's closer to school i'm not by the avs perfect thinking right nope yeah yeah i had i had found within two weeks the people i needed to find to get what i wanted in delray beach yeah i mean it's hilarious i get phone calls all the time and and and people be like yeah i i want to stop drinking i think it's a problem and i'm just gonna you know move somewhere for the summer the winter for the next three weeks and that's gonna that doesn't yeah we all know this geography just not cure alcoholism. No, it does not. Moving does not cure alcoholism.

It does not. Okay, so, oh, nine, and then you get, is it your last UI and like, when do you get sober? So, this is a great story. Yeah, it's, it's a pretty epic story. I had gotten a couple, like, slaps on the wrist for, like, driving a hundred down a road and, like, them seeing the shorts that I was wearing at the school I worked, and the guy was like, you have someone that can pick you up because I know the fact that you're teacher, you're wearing, you're wearing your school, you're wearing your school uniform, quote,

unquote. I was wearing like basketball short or lacrosse shorts from the school. And the guy was like, like, what are you doing? I just come from like a kickball event. And it was like, you play kickball for an hour and just get drunk with everybody. And that was like the best. Because I was single. And it was like, I'm going to go play kickball and, you know, meet women and hang out. And then when I'm tired, I'm going to go home. And I got a couple slaps on the wrist. Nothing happened. And then May 15th, I was, you know, I realized this after I get sober, but I'm participating as helping, I'm participating in a school play, helping with the lights. And I felt like I didn't get thanked when everybody got thanked. I was entitled to a thank you. Because thank you, Mr. Williams,

for helping us with the lights. And I don't, I don't feel like I got it. They may have said it, but I didn't hear it. I just remember afterwards just being like, man, this smug, fuck, like didn't even, didn't even say that like I'm donating my time and like it's total selfish self-centered resentment resentment and we went to this party and everybody you know teacher party teacher house went everybody brought what they wanted to bring and I brought everything you know I brought what I wanted to for everyone and I drank it all to myself and like I said it was having fun it was the pool it was food is this is that and I at one point I was like I just want to go home maybe I'll stop off and see my girlfriend and a day and a girl day and a girl

And I was like, hey, I'm leaving. And, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to drive by your house on my way home. And I got in the car. So this point, has your drinking ever been challenged by anyone that you've dated? Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Like my family, you know, my brother had one time, my brother had one time, my middle brother tried to take me to a buddy of his that had gotten sober.

And like, we went for a conversation. I was like, cool story, not for me. You know, after my first UI, like right out of college, you know, driving the wrong way down, 95. I went to a meeting for three days. And I was like, I'm nothing like you, people. And that was like 2003, I want to say. That took you a minute.

And then, you know, my oldest brother-in-law is sober a long time. And he even tried to talk to me. And I remember, you know, he and I have a relationship now. And I said, you know, do you ever look back at that? And he goes, yeah, you just didn't want to hear what I had to say. You know, he's like, I, you know, his story is pretty epic too. But I just remember, like, he had almost, like, died and killed someone in the process. And I was like, I haven't done anything.

I never would do that. But yeah, it just got to that point where I drank, got in the car, was driving, and that whole process of like I was fine where I was, but the minute I left my situation, I blacked out while driving and thought I was making a left into where my girlfriend was living, realized it wasn't. And I got, and I was like, oh, this is my turn. And I swerved and I totaled the car and I hit somebody.

Thankfully, they were okay. But I'd stopped traffic on both sides of the road. was still relatively early in the evening in south florida and i remember getting out again g-sop-top no top board shorts only no shirt no doors totaled the car and i just walked over the sidewalk and i sat down and i waited i was like i could have walked to her house and left but like i was done and i had been done before i had like you know known and been like there you go I'm good, you know. But I had never experienced the next part, which was going to a lovely Boca Raton jail,

which is nice, where they kind of clean you up and make you look pretty. And then they send you to Gun Club. And Gun Club is a prison. And it was the first time it wasn't a drunk tank where I was stripped, searched, cleaned with other men in a room in front of cops, just standing there, the day, like the day I was born, in and out of consciousness, jumpsuited, orange jumpsuit, and put into general population. And just kind of like, you know, and like you're in and out of, like, you know, you're like,

what, like, what's happening? Like, kind of in and out coming to. And I remember coming to on a cot on the second floor, because there's like two floors. like where the cots were and I kind of came to and I was just like dried snot tears like like sweat grossness I just kind of was like I was like I was like I was like I really hope I'm not where I think I am before I open my eyes and I was like here we are and I was just like I'm sick and tired of this I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and I'm an alcoholic and I need help and I was just by myself like literally just sitting there and you know you hear the noises and there's a lot of

people in there and it's like I was the minority in the situation like I like you know they took my milk they took my bologna sandwich like I just kind of was like what am I doing like how how did I end up here from drinking yeah and I remember kind of walking downstairs and I saw this like relatively like peaceful dude that was just like sitting at a table like this and he was kind of jacked and I kind of like went up to him and he's like you okay I was like clearly I'm not and he's like what's what'd you do and I was like oh I crashed my I crashed my car and D-Y and I don't really know what else it's happened to me a couple times you're fine I was like what did you do he was like yeah guy got out of line I nearly beat him to death and I was like

and I just I just kind of was like what and I sat there And then he proceeded to tell me, he's like, yeah, you know, I got my mom coming to bail me out. You know, I'll get through. Like, basically he was talking. And then I was like, how old are you? And he was like, I'm 42. And I literally felt like I was looking at, like, a future me. Yeah.

But, you know, I had said out loud that I was sick and tired and sick and tired, and then I was an alcoholic. And it was the wildest thing because from there, I was marched in front of the judge. looked at my file. I couldn't look him in the eyes. Like, I couldn't look dudes in the eye. I couldn't look anybody in the eye. And he's like, Mr. Williams, it seems, it looks like you've had enough. And he goes, judging by what I'm looking at here, you're going to be a resident with us for a period of time. And I was like, and I just, you know, like, look up, yes, sir. Look down. And then I was like, resident. He goes, yeah, he's like, based on what I'm looking at,

he goes, the last 10 years, you've been doing a lot of work. and if something doesn't change you're going to be joining us here long story short the girl I was dating picked me up she was a wreck I called my brothers that you know had always been there for me never never never you know voice their concerns right but drop the things that they were doing to come down and help me I had told my car I had to hire a lawyer and I walked in a school that day and it's like you you know and you've been you know you've been places where they're like, you know, I knew everybody knew. And I remember the headmaster called me in, and he was,

Mr. Williams, you okay? And I was like, no, sir. You know, my sons have, you know, they've done that. You know, it's okay. It happens. And I was like, no, sir, I'm an alcoholic. And I'm okay saying that. And I don't want you to, you know, be, you know, whatever you decide to do.

And he's like, well, you know, he's a month left of school. And there's no point in getting a substitute. And, you know, you're doing a good job. job here. So just keep your nose clean and just do your thing. So you finish year. I finished year. And my kids graduated on June, I want to say June

5th. And I checked into a rehabilitation facility, June 6th. And I was going to do 30 days. And here you are. And 30 days turned into 60 days, which turned into 90 days, all the while being exposed to fellowship of A.A.

um really great sober people that brought meetings into the institution um the people in the recovery community are the best man the best i i am really close with one guy still to this day who spoke who's a comedian who spoke and made us laugh made fun of all of us yeah and himself yeah and made us laugh and i was belly laughs and there are so many things i remember And, you know, that facility is no longer, you know, in existence, but it really helped me that my therapist was amazing. She called me on my shit so hard. So much of these programs is the people and the, yeah. I mean, I just like the, the power of the human story and then I really do.

I want to get into the sobriety and pro pro, but first of all, man, I'm so happy you're alive. Thank you. I'm happy. So happy you're here. You know, the, the human, like the, the. come back, the human story, I don't know if you believe in God or what higher power, but that day something was looking out after you, thank God. My middle brother is a very, like we grew up in a Christian household, Episcopalian church,

all that stuff. My middle brother is very, very spiritual. And he would always say in the beginning, he's like, do you understand God's sense of humor? He's like, you got a job down here. you knew a ton of sober men that you weren't aware there was sober other than your one friend you grew up with who you knew was sober so that when you finally were ready for help and you reached out you had everybody say dude we've been waiting we're glad you're here welcome and would

pick me up and take me to meetings would take me to pizza I had nothing I lost my job well I wasn't working anymore but I lost my license for five years I had no means of income. But I want to stop there for a second because I feel like that's the piece that's so many people, whether you're thinking about getting sober or you're a friend of someone who's sober, it can be confusing. What do you mean you just pick this person up? What do you mean you're just taking a phone call?

Yeah. What do you mean you offer your couch for someone to sleep on? And that was the coolest thing. But that's what we do. Yeah, it was dictated to me. They're like, this guy's going to take you home. Are you hungry? We're going to get pizza.

I'm like, you guys didn't listen. I'll have any money. they're like no no no no we get you a slice of peach we'll get you a coke um what are you doing tomorrow uh well i i i don't all right that guy's gonna pick you up that guy's into and that was what i experienced the fellowship were you willing early on uh bro i i would have done anything you told me to to not feel the way i felt i felt like such dirt i remember this story last week actually i was i was speaking somewhere so i was with a bunch of guys early on in in new york city for a meeting and you know afterwards there's kind of this like going out right like everyone

will go fellowship or whatever they'll talk about hey we're going to go to the diner and so these guys were kind of going around and they came up to me with you know 120 days sober and i'm in new york city and all i'm trying to do is make friends and they say dude we're going to jackson hole do you want to come i didn't know that jackson hole was a burger spot i thought jackson hole like Wyoming i'm like and dude i'm like i'm like i'm in like when's the trip and I'm like immediately thinking about like how I'm going to call my mom and dad and get them to pay for this trip to go and like I haven't seen it but like I was just willing and then I was just like when's the trip dude he's like bro it's it's a burger spot down down the road but it was that's good the willingness it was that willingness and that

surrender and that letting go and that guy that you talked about in your story that that that knew everything yeah it was it was one of my students fathers that took me to my first meeting picked me up, took me, forced me to share, and I got called out. You know, I basically vomited over the meeting that I was just like, you know, mad, I'm an alcoholic, lost my job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I couldn't speak up. I couldn't look at anybody in the eye. By the time I had finished my, like, my pity party, I just remember looking up and

people nodding and smiling, which fucking pissed me off. Yeah. I'm like, they're laughing at me. Then a guy raised his hand, he goes, man, I remember when I was just like you, you're scared little boy. And I was like, man, like, not that I'm a tough guy, but no one really had ever said that. And then he proceeded to talk about his story and then the next person, the next person in that feeling of like, wow, these people actually get it. These people understand what I feel right now and have experienced what I feel right now.

And they're not drinking where they are. And I heard so much powerful positive messaging around them living a life today without it and how, you know, it wasn't perfect. I heard tragic stories of, you know, people that had lost their kids that weren't drinking, people that had lost their love, whatever it was and they weren't drinking. And I was like, man, I'm going to take my problems back because I'm just like drinking because I'm a selfish little asshole. Yeah. but yeah that's that's the way that's the way it was there and it was it was great you know who so who outside of your family your like your now wife like chelsea's a total sweetheart we love her who's been the most important person to your sobriety all these like after all these years

like is there one person that you think that person really has saved me I have a couple. Yeah, I would say the guy that I grew up with that was one of the first guys that got sober. He paved the way. You know, he paved the way. My, you know, my current sponsor was actually one of the first guys to ever get sober. And we were, like, friends because we grew up in a small town. But, you know, yeah, I mean, you know, I say this all the time.

Like, you said not Chelsea. If I think of, like, one person, you know. my my first sponsor was really tough a good old boy and he was very like you know he had this like little southern twang to him he's like god either is or he isn't he's like black and white you do it or you don't call me or you don't you want this great you don't there's the door underneath that is so much love though and and i needed it and i will never forget and i share this like early on i didn't have a car would leave his house in central boca he would drive to come pick me up to come back to east boca to go to a meeting to take me home to go back home and this guy had four kids a job a life

business the whole deal and i'll never forget we were we were early and we went there was like you know a coffee spot and i saw all these guys there like drinking coffee and like hanging out and fellowshiping and and you know i've shared this before and we know we know each other when we see each other the best and and all these guys are going to the meeting I'm like hey how come we don't do that and he was like don't do what I was like well you know hang out before the meeting he said let me tell you something because and he would list he's got I have four kids I have a job have a wife I have a business I have this and that he goes I drove all the way over there because someone did it for me because if you want to get over here before I can then do so and he goes and I was like okay

And I was just like, I just, you know, he's like, no, I don't understand what you're saying. He's like, but what I'm doing to help you is this. He goes, and if you want that, go build it. He goes, I have that. You go build it. And I followed. I was kind of, you know, I was like being a little wise. That's because like, I love this dude.

And I was just like, man, that was rough. And he was just like, you know, do you want to get sober? Do you want to hug? And I was like, I want both. And like kind of laughed about it. But like, that toughness, I needed it. You know, like there was one day I missed calling him because I missed the time and I didn't want to call too late because the kids and whatever and I call him next day. I was like, hey, man, sorry, I miss calling you.

You're like, why didn't you call me? He's like, when you have something I want, I'll call you until then you call me. And it was just like that like, and I was like, oh, whoa. But I needed those things. Yeah. I needed that. I needed the truth bombs. I needed the tough love.

I needed to be directed. And I was willing. I was like willing to do the suggestions. I still tried, you know, even in treatment, I tried to manipulate something. with the therapist and I got called out on it in group in front of everybody and she's like you want to tell everybody what you did and I was just like well I thought she's like no you thought wrong so just tell everybody what you did and how you manipulated a situation to go above me to try to get time to spend you with your girlfriend and the girlfriend is now my wife which is cool the girlfriend from before that's Chelsea that's Chelsea so you were dating Chelsea before we dated for three weeks so when my wife When my life blew up. This is fucking awesome. Okay, so three weeks before the DUI that got you sober, that got you into jail, the girl you're dating is Chelsea, who you started pro pro with.

Yeah. I told her to. She's stuck by your side. I told her run the other way. And her family did too. And she knew. She felt it. Yeah.

I mean. She's not sober. Can I say? Can I ask? Yeah. Yeah. She's not one of us. Yeah.

But, yeah, she had her fun in college. Yeah. Yeah. know like we'll have a glass of wine whatever maybe yeah but like she's she's on that's important for people to hear yeah she's a healthy woman that like like the sugar and wine doesn't make her feel good like you know she can do whatever she wants because she's normal right but i mean dude she she she she went to meetings to understand all not no she came to open aa meetings oh wow to under to understand what was really going on she did the work she did the work that's fucking

awesome and she you know she loved me when i hear that shit yeah she loved me when i couldn't love myself and like she is amazing that's the thing about family members do too is like and shout out chelsea she's such a gem so many people ask as a family member what should i do i'm going to tell you some things to do are you actually going to do them right because then you tell them to do it and you know now you work in behavioral health care now and you work with a lot of families they don't actually want to do the work right they do not actually want to look at themselves yeah they're so used to pointing at you and me and the other people who are screwing shit up when the finger turns around back at them and they actually have to look at their stuff, they get pretty uncomfortable.

And when they're told, hey, maybe you were contributing to this, they get even more uncomfortable. I'm glad you brought that up because it is, it is one of the hardest things to once you have the person that's struggling with the active addiction and they're working on it, dealing with the family. And I remember a therapist when I was in treatment saying like, the relationships in your family, the dynamic is going to change because you're no longer the little brother that needs rescuing. Yeah. You're no longer the son that's fucking up continuously and it's going to change it's going to be really weird and you're going to have to like really communicate with your family effectively and you know i always say this my mom can ask me

to the day one of us ceases to exist like are you still going to meetings and she doesn't but like you know what i put that woman through and like the question she's a she loves questions she's she just she will ask questions and i have to remember my family's never been interested in my in my no just in general she's just question ask her yeah okay yeah she's like why did why did they put this brick here what what's you know like why did why did you choose to do that like she just she's inquisitive she loves history like that's who she is yeah but yeah i mean it's it's it's been um it's been a really cool process for my family it's been a really amazing experience for for for me and you know it's what led to you know pro pro pro being one of those things i was working side jobs right and i was

so just to be really clear before we get into pro pro pro this is the message for all the wives that write me this is the message i can't tell you what is going to happen but if your husband or your brother or your boyfriend does get sober there is a chance that you can build a big beautiful life if you do not if they do not i cannot tell you what it's going to happen chances are it's going to be pretty chaotic and pretty ugly yeah so matt thank you for getting so over Chelsea thank you for getting sober who stays with a guy three weeks into a relationship after he gets locked up for a DUI I mean that hopefully that story is on the side of the box here yeah okay so now you are your your how many years so 15 yeah just celebrated 14 14

year year year ahead of May 14 year so over pro pro is next but like today just like what are three keep it quick things that you do daily to maintain your sobriety same morning routine as when i got sober wake up um drink water hit my knees pray journal daily reflections um don't miss it it uh it steers my mind in the right direction gets me focused all right one morning routine one morning routine uh i constantly say that was told me we're in the effort business not the results business effort we are in the effort business after business not the result business not the results business and number three one of our favorite things I think with anything is get out and get active get moving moving moving yeah get the body moving

feeling good shark yeah just move move move move move get it going yeah don't sit get it yeah I love that dude the moving things huge for me a lot of people ask me that because it's like the stock answer to mental health like what do you do for mental health while I move around and I realize it's it's movement but it's It's also forced movement, like having a schedule and a life that I need to show up to. Yes. Like I, at the beginning of this episode, I was talking about this news hit that I had this morning. Had I not had that scheduled?

And I told the lady, like, you actually helped me today. Like having this interview today helped me because it made me get out of bed. Yeah. I probably would have just sat here. I would just lounge around, yeah. Okay, so you're sober, your life is good, you and Chelsea live in South Florida, she's a saint for staying with you after you, you know, have the DUI. When do you guys start pro pro, which I'm going to whack back one of these guys while you're, because I've been staring at these things for it. And it's an amazing product.

Thank you. Tell me a little bit about give me the clip notes version, when it started, where you guys are at, what's going to happen, the business, what it is. Yep. The shit's so good. So organic peanut butter. snack bar we'll just say this we're a peanut butter snack bar plant based peanut butter plant plant based protein peanut butter oats honey and then a variety of different things inclusions in the bar um it's meant to be a snack and i literally created it because i was

biking around south florida going to train my clients going to tutor um trying to find work uh and it was the one thing that was in my backpack that i would drive around with um in addition to a change of clothes a towel because south florida rains you never know um and i started sharing it with people and I shared it with one of my clients and she's like this is you know I shared it with her and made it in your kitchen or what yeah I made in my kitchen I was working a couple different jobs in early sobriety just like recovery based jobs of you know I was working in an office I was doing a couple different things and yeah I just kind of was sitting at a desk one day and was like you know I got to make something and you know you can't carry around a tuna fish sandwich in south florida heat

and like expect to smell good and show up places and just made this this bar and carried around with me in a plastic bag. I started sharing it with the people that, you know, I trained. One of the younger clients that I wanted to try it, and obviously being a teacher knew that, you know, there's peanut butter or allergies or things like that. And the mom was like, yeah, no, it's fine. She can have that. And she loved it. And she's like, is that healthy? And I said, yeah, it is. She's like, my kid doesn't eat healthy. I said, well, she's eating healthy now. I was like, and it was interesting because she was in this, you know, marketing kind of like, kind of like event space thing. And she's like, I think you have something here. I made

it for her again. And long story short, she was like, you know, what do you want to call it? And I was like, I don't know. I just make it. And I don't know. It's like frozen protein, pro pro pro. She took my credit card. And she wasn't really aware of my situation and like that I had like really nothing. So it was one of those things where I, you know, gave her my credit card. and she like bought me like eight donames like pro pro pro go pro pro all this stuff who this this my this client's mother because she was like I think you have something and I just literally said out loud pro pro so she made a website and then she goes now go start this whole business and I'm like carol and you still talk to her or no I still see her from

she's in the community I haven't seen her in a while but she was just very you know very nice lady and and help me out and you know took my credit card bought these websites and I remember coming home and I was, you know, Chelsea and I weren't married yet. And I was like, Carol, Carol or Carol? Carol. Carol. You need a Carol bar, dude. Yeah. You need a Carol bar.

Yeah. Carol was just so funny and pushy to like get me to do this. And I didn't really do anything. This was 2011. It was an idea. And then I started training at my friend's gym. And they let me put it out there. And I didn't attach my name to it because obviously I'm still going through, you know, getting sober.

And I didn't want any of you to be like, oh, let's like the poor sober guy. bar and I got a lot of really great feedback and honest feedback of what people liked what they didn't like and then a lady came in and that had been training and wanted to try it asked the guys that owned the place what the deal was and they kind of looked at me and I talked to her and she's like you know I really want to try it but I'm vegetarian I don't do dairy because I made it with like metrics and all the stuff I had my and she's like would you try plant-based protein I said sure she's like well people can digest that better than the dairy or way I was okay great make her a bunch of bars give them to her and she's like wow this is fantastic she's like

can you make me a hundred and i was like i've never done that she's like make me a hundred figure out to put it in a package and then let me know so i went home i made it made her a hundred and i said i have a hundred she's like i own this juice spot in boco come by and um um i'd love to sell them here and i was like okay and i like showed up and i had friends that were lawyers that like made me this contract that were like this, that, and the other thing. And I walked in there with a contract. Yeah, this bar kills one of your customers. Yeah.

Yeah. And I just kind of walked in there. She's like, what's that? I was like, my lawyers. And she's like, throw that away. She's like, how much should it cost you to make all this? I was like, I have no idea you told me to do it. And I did it.

She's like, well, I'll tell you what. Give me these hundred. I'm going to sell them. When I sell out, I'm going to pay you this. That should cover your cost and then some. And I was like, okay. And I like ran out of there because I was like, I don't want her to change your mind and think like, have heard something like, you know, she didn't know my story at all.

And three days later, she called me. She's like, man, I sold out of the bars to make me another hundred please. And I showed up with another hundred bars and she gave me a check. And I was like, huh, cool. This is neat. And then she's like, oh, my friend came in there to try it. She's opening this place. You got to go visit her in Del Rey.

And I visited and she's like, yeah, I'll take 25. I'll put them right here. And so slowly, I started sharing it with people. And I started to get like, I want to say like an awareness of what I was doing just other than the fact that like people were eating the snacks that I was making and it made me happy that they were eating them like the check was cool but like the fact that people were liking something and it gave me like some confidence it's a lot of what it is and being an entrepreneur yeah and that's how it started and I would write things down in a notebook and I would you know figure out what things cost and then I put them in an I opened an account and I put everything in there and just just like let it. Chelsea think you were crazy? She was like not very fond of like my making the kitchen a mess. But she believed in you.

She did. And, you know, we're, you know, we're going from glad plastic wrap with a sticker to, you know, finding like, oh, we should do these pouches and we did pouches. And then a buddy of mine who had a kitchen was like, hey, if you need a space, you can rent this space for X, you know, X amount of dollars during these hours. so for about three years between working in the and I had started working not only in the gym but in the treatment center that I had gone to as in admissions and working with families I was doing all these things for like three years you know three years straight seven days a week and at one point I kind of lost my things had changed at the place that I had worked and it didn't feel pure anymore and they got a lot of rid of a lot of programs that I was

like that really helped me and I was like I got to leave this. You work in treatment? I was working at the place that I went to. Yeah, that happens. And I was like, I'm done. I get that. I was like, I'm done. And people like, why are you leaving? We're getting good money. And I said, you know, I think I just want to train and I want to keep doing pro pro pro pro. And then I went full time and opened up, you know, started training more one-on-one in classes at the gym and doing this. Yep. Yeah. And got back into that. And that was like around 25th, 2014, I want to say. And, you know, yeah, what's crazy is, like, in that time leading up to it, like, I, I had, uh, I had asked Chelsea to marry me. We got married in 2015, 2016, we're visiting family in, uh, Nashville.

And my older brother, like, my, my, my, my, my brothers are, like, we're all question askers. And I remember I stepped out of the room and I came back and Chelsea's crying and I looked at my brother and I'm like, dude. And he goes, dude, I just asked, I just asked a question, man. I just asked like, what she wanted to do. And she was crying. She was like, I really want to help you. I think I can provide value because she was running this huge business for this local woman. And she loved it.

But she saw, like, I really didn't know what I was doing with certain things that she was good at. And I said, well, what does that even look like? I write things down in a notebook. And, like, I just got a license. We just got married. Like, what do you mean you want to help me? She's like, I think I can help really automate this. And then I was like, okay.

but like your job is great and it's paying our bills and you know we formulated a plan of you know she'd work for a couple more months and then she became full-time you know running the books yeah yeah she was like doing the books and doing things and like things that I didn't really know how to do and we went from one one kitchen to another kitchen and then in 2018 we had an opportunity there's an abandoned gym in a space in Central Boka. And I was like, I literally asked probably 40 people waiting for someone to tell me not to do it

because I was terrified. And most people are like, dude, it's like two years past. Like, you should have done this two years ago. And I was like, why don't you tell me? They're like, you weren't ready. And we opened up our first headquarters in 2018. We expanded, we expanded a couple years later. We survived the COVID, the, just craziness of COVID.

and like businesses shutting down and having to shut down our gym made it through that we had a lot of great support and we were considered a what was that word a business that needed to stay up and they used to call it something essential we were an essential business because we at that point I kind of fast forwarded but like we from her coming on in 2016 we had an opportunity to pitch whole foods we pitched whole foods we got in four stores expanded expanded expanded all the states were starting online. We had all this great stuff. And we opened the brick and mortar and we expanded. We survived COVID. And today it's an incredible thing because, you know, I get to show up to a gym where we have fun community workouts. Some of my friends run their, you know, their personal training books out of there.

And that's the spot where you do this. Yep. Our kitchen is there. We expanded. We invested in an infrastructure. That's been my go-to, actually, recently. we're going to do a big thing in October I don't know if Chelsea told you

but we're going to sell like a shitload of these I love it love that I'm going to pump it because I believe I mean dude you're within the first two lines of our story our founder Matt Williams has been sober since 2010 I mean like that's the kind of shit we need

you know in the world I was hesitant to do that though for a little bit because I you know That's so powerful. I mean, it's not going to stop. Anyone who reads that doesn't eat the bar, you should. We don't need them anyway. Yeah.

Still taste good. But it's, it's those are the things that it's like, you know, you get, you start to, you get comfortable being able to share, you know, out loud and, you know, you say recover out loud. You know, your big thing is keep going. And, you know, it's like even, even to be able to sit here and like just how relationships, you know, grow and get fostered through different things.

things and different events and you know meeting one of the guys at the run club tonight that you know just spoke so highly of this program and the fact that he had no idea until he saw your podcast and he was like i'm going there logan yeah dude and he's running yeah he's running the event um but it's like those are the things where it's like i i you know when i look back and we're talking about like the grass is green where you water it then keeping the You know, keeping where, you know, reminding myself of where I'm out. It's like we have, we've had a bunch of sober people come through work for a couple months. We've had some stay.

We've had a safe working environment for, you know, sober men. We have a great team of people that really, like my wife is the CEO. You know, we have Emily, Director of Operations, Danny, marketing. We just have such an amazing team, mentors that have. And you're letting her run the business. I'm not letting her. her do shit she is doing it well well but you you realize she was better than you 100% yeah that's so cool man that's real love yeah i there is no doubt in my mind there are things that she does that i can't

and she is the she sits at the control panel and she moves things and it's really cool it's like you you know you have people that come and go that i've worked here over the years and i'm sure that you know when you see the people that really care as much as you do it's it's it that's the culture yeah and those people stick around yeah and and that's what blows me away and the fact that I can walk out of the gym and walk in give my wife a hugging a kiss and say what's up to the boys and see what they're doing and just kind of watch because she is she is the CEO she is the she is the boss and even even when they need my help it's like I just what do you need me to do I love being told what to do

and the thing that I got to create it's pretty dope your story is awesome man I appreciate you I love you very much I appreciate you giving me some time and space at the beginning here to kind of like just check in with each other I think that's a big reason why this podcast exists

and I love the story you just shared about like the guy who was listening that ended up getting the help because that's ultimately what we're trying to do here like really just fucking make a space where people can ask for help I know we didn't get into much of your recovery work, your behavioral health care work. I will just say this about Matt, aside from all that stuff, he is like a recovery coach

and inspires me every day with the work he does with men specifically to kind of help them get sober. So we'll have to get you back on to talk more about that. But I really wanted to really hear the story of pro pro. I'm excited. We're going to do some cool stuff here together in the next couple months. and unless you have something else, we're going to wrap. Love it, man. Thanks for having me.

Love you. Love this experience, what you're doing here. Keep it going. It's grateful to be a part of it. Sweet, man. Well, that is it for this episode of the Zach Clark show. Matt Williams, ladies and gentlemen, total gem of a human being. Peace.