The Zac Clark Show - He Helped Thousands of Young Men — Then His Son Nearly Died | Lessons on Fatherhood & Modern Men

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

What does it take to keep going when a doctor tells you your son has less than a 10% chance of survival? Vince Benevento is the founder of Causeway Collaborative – a counseling and mentorship organization that has helped over 2,500 young men between the ages of 14 and 30 – and the author of Boys Will Be Men: 8 Lessons for the Lost American Male. Last July, his 12-year-old son Leo was diagnosed with aplastic anemia — a rare, potentially fatal blood disease. What followed was 150 days in the hospital, emergency surgeries, experimental treatments, and two doctors telling Vince to prepare for the worst. Leo is now back in school and back on the lacrosse field. Against every odd. In this conversation, Vince opens up about what those 150 days actually looked like – the fear, the sleepless nights, the moments his marriage buckled under the weight of it. He talks about his own bipolar disorder diagnosis, his struggles with addiction and alcohol, and how the mess of his own life became the foundation of his life's work helping young men find their way. This is one of the most honest conversations we've had on this show. If you're a father, a son, or someone who has ever had to find a reason to keep going – this one is for you. Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery: [phone] releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

The doctors basically told us that your son has less than a 10% survival rate. Sign this paper, we're taking your kid to emergency surgery to try to save his life literally right now. You're literally just praying for a miracle, man. Do you think it was a doctor? Do you think it was God? I believe God save my son. Vince Benevento. The founder and CEO of Causeway Collaborative. He recently published Boys Will Be Men to explore the challenges facing modern men.

His son Leo contracted a rare blood disease and then a fungal infection and spent 100 50 days in the hospital. What happened to Vince during that time as a father, a husband, a man who counsels other men for a living is something that I think every person needs to listen to. And here, Vince, welcome to the show. I feel like for the listeners that don't know, your son, Leo, is back in school. Yeah, man. It's crazy.

Yeah. Give the people just the quick overview of what happened. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate the, you know, the opportunity to speak on that and just, you know, kind of share where we are. So, you know, the good part is it's a story with a happy ending. Not all these ones are, but ours is. But it didn't appear that it was going to be, you know. So my son, you know, Leo is now 13, but, you know, this all started last July. He was 12. And, you know, we had the 4th of July, had a big party at the house. My wife always, you know, invites. everybody over. It's good. It's great time. And then Monday was the seventh. And, you know, we got a call from his basketball coach. He's at camp. So we got a call from his coach. And they noticed like a little rash on the inside of his arm, you know, I mean, he's an active kid. He fishes. He rides dirt bikes. He's doing all the things, play sports. So, like, usually we wouldn't even take him to the doctors.

He was going to lacrosse camp up in Army later in the week. He's a real good lacrosse player. So, so we brought him, we got him checked out. I got a text, you know, from my wife. hey, meet me at Yale, we're in the ambulance, we're on our way to the hospital. I was like, for what? Like, what are you talking about? You know, and my wife is not an alarmist by any means. And so, you know, come to find out, like literally out of nowhere, doctors still to this day can't identify where this all started. But, you know, he was diagnosed with a rare and, you know, potentially fatal blood disease called aplastic anemia. I'd never heard of it. Learned about it very quickly. Essentially, his immune system had, you know, completely, you know, was completely

non-existent and he had no platelets in his blood either. And so, you know, we immediately were like on a donor list for like a bone marrow transplant. And this all happened in like two weeks, you know, so we went from like having, you know, three healthy kids and living a normal life to like our world, you know, got grenaded and everything changed immediately. And so, you know, he was in the clinic three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, getting blood transfusions all summer long. You know, we were preparing for a bone marrow transplant, which he received in October. We found, you know, thank God, we found a 10 out of 10 donor match, you know, which is a very rare proposition.

And so, you know, we get the bone marrow transplant. It's obviously like, you know, he's doing chemo, he's doing radiation. It's crazy. And so, you know, we're there about a month. And the doctors are saying, all right, well, like. it looks like it's taken and looks like things are good. And then, you know, they basically checked him out because they were looking to discharge him and they found a fungal infection in his lung, like totally, you know, missed it.

They, you know, it was hidden on scans. They didn't see it. And, you know, basically we walked into a room and there was a dozen doctors in a room. And they said, hey, sign this paper. We're taking your kid to emergency surgery to try to save his life literally right now. And so the fungus was, you know, an invasive, lethal, aggressive. you know, uh, disease where, you know, the doctors basically told us that, you know, they had treated, you know, a couple handfuls of kids with this rare condition and they'd never

had anybody survive, you know, so, you know, Mr. Benevento, prepare yourself, prepare your wife, prepare your family. Your kid is not going to come home from this, you know, so you need to begin to wrap yourself around that. Uh, and they did a bunch of surgeries and, you know, they took out half his lung. They took out a couple of his ribs. They pulled out a six centimeter. massive fungus that was on his spine. He later suffered a broken back because the fungus ate away at his spine. And so they put three titanium rods in his spine and screws up and down. And we were literally in the hospital for 150 days with our kid, you know, and didn't think he was going to live. And so I was out of work for almost four months. My wife, you know, and I were just

there by his bedside the entire time. Where are the other kids? Yeah. So other kids were at, you you know, Nani's house, right? So, you know. That's grandma. Yeah, that's grandma. That's grandma for all you those who aren't Italian out there. That's grandma. So my mother-in-law has been, you know, she basically raised my kids.

When we were starting a business years ago, like she took care of the kids. You know, she lives about, you know, quarter mile from us. So my kids grew up going over to their grandmother's place. So, you know, in this situation, it was like, a godsend that we could just send the kids there and not worry about anything. You know, they went to school, they went to practice. They, you know, they got picked up in the morning, dropped off at night. So, like, we had this whole wraparound community that, like, basically took our kids in,

plus their grandparents, plus we had, you know, cousins and uncles coming over. So, like, you know, the support vis-a-vis the family and the community that we had around us, you know, enabled us to just really focus on Leo, you know, and really prioritize him getting well. But we walked through hell, man, you know. And, you know, there were days where, you know, stuff was going on. We didn't think he would make it through the night. You know, my wife and I would, you know, just pray by his bedside. Have you always been religious?

Yeah, I mean, I have been since, you know, I met my wife. So I grew up Catholic and then, you know, kind of fell away when I was, you know, doing stuff. I shouldn't have been doing when I was, you know, a teenager or whatnot. But, you know, I found my faith again when I met my wife, you know, 24. And I've been a pretty religious guy my whole life. but, you know, since, but, but, but I mean, this, you know, sort of, I mean, when you have nothing, like literally nothing, but, you know, divine intervention to, to lean on to bail you out of a situation where doctors are telling you there's nothing we can, literally, there's nothing else we

could do for your kid, you know, that, that up-levels your faith to a different degree, you know, and, and also, you know, I mean, I didn't know what to do and how to operate and how to be and, you know, how to be a husband, how to be a father, you know, how to show up, how to manage my own mental health and, you know, all my messiness. So that was a, you know, a port in the storm for me and just a place where I put my energy to try to do something positive that I could control, you know? Yeah. I want to hit on that last point. Yeah. Your own mental health, Vince. One, yeah. I'm glad Leo's fine. Fine. Okay. Back in school. Yeah. And still, you know, ongoing, but like, you know, we're in a position we didn't think we would be in. Of course. Yes. Of course.

blessed. You're a well-spoken guy, you're a charismatic guy, you're a founder of a pretty big successful company, a CEO. Again, 2,500 men. This is your life's work. So your 13-year-old son, there's an angle that we'll talk about there of how do you prepare him to deal with the trauma and everything that he went through. But before we get to that, what I want to ask you is during those five or six months. Yeah, yeah. Is there any of you can share with us around some of the darkness,

places you went? Oh, yeah. Maybe coping mechanisms that weren't healthy. Like, like, what was going through Vince's mind? Yeah. And how are you? Because there's days, bro, where I, you know, I get home at the end of the day

and I want a cigarette. I want something to not feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And, you know, I mean, full disclosure. you know, I mean, I hadn't smoked cigarettes in probably 15 years, you know, and like there was, I mean, I bought a pack of cigarettes in the hospital and, you know, smoked three pack of cigarettes in 150 days while I was there because, like, I just needed a break, you know, and I, and I, and I view that as weakness and I view that as, you know, a misstep and poor judgment, but

there was something about just having, you know, a temporary separation from the situation inside the hospital and going outside and laping the hospital and smoking a cigarette that allowed me to put some separation there for that moment. But are you willing to give yourself the same grace that you might give one of your guys that you're working with? If you're one of your guys, and one of your guys is going through what you're going through and he's smoking three packs of cigarettes, but he's getting through. What are you telling him? I'm telling him. I'm certainly, like, listen, so I view it as a black eye and a blemish and like my wife and I've had conversations about it subsequent and I've stopped since, you know, but I mean, I think,

I mean, I didn't get in a car and drive away, you know, like I didn't, I didn't pick up. I didn't do some of these other things that, like, I was actively, you know, thinking about and tempted with and struggling through, you know, in my own stuff. And I mean, I would, if another guy was on the other end of the table, I would say to him, think about all the things you are doing, you know, that are in support of your son and in support of your wife and that you are, you know, demonstrating to stand tall and, you know, be the leader of your household and a man of character and not the, you know, one or two things that you did where you demonstrated weakness and vulnerability, you know. So, I mean, I was able to give myself grace

for that. But, I mean, I would tell you this, like I, in retrospect, and only in retrospect, and I think the benefit of hindsight that comes from my kid doing better, was I able to look back and see how unwell I was, you know, and, you know, I mean, I, I mean, I lost like 12, you know, 12 pounds, just like couldn't eat, you know, we were in the pediatric ICU for 50 nights with bells going off and alarms going off. You're sleeping there. You're staying there. I'm in a chair, dude. I'm in a reclining chair and my wife's, you know, nestled in bed with our kid or on a, you know, it's like a, you know, one of those tables that flips into like a sofa, but the, you know, it's like you're sleeping out of wooden board. You know, like, we were in the room with him for 50

straight nights. So like, I'm barely sleeping, barely eating, barely getting by. And, you know, you're just doing what you can to survive, you know? So, like, I was snapping at people and yelling at people and yelling at doctors and pulling people's side and, like, was making no apologies, you know. And I mean, also full disclosure, my wife and I were not in a great spot either, you know, because, like, you know, A, she's a saint. And B, like, she has a wonderfully delightful disposition. And, you know, just in her bones, doesn't know how to mistreat people, you know, from my perspective, you know, and not like I'm an animal by any means, but the only thing that mattered to me was my kid getting better, you know,

literally. I didn't care about like arguing with her, you know, going to bat, you know, on an issue of importance from my perspective, you know, holding the doctors to account, whatever the case was. Like, it was just about my kid getting well, you know, and. But how did your work fuel you in those moments? Because I would have to be. to imagine you caught yourself at times and you know we both I know you know enough that you know the worst situation gets it doesn't always mean the more aggressive you know like sometimes we got to let go totally totally totally but I I you know I mean I think you know like for better and worse right like you know and this is where my own you know poor inclination

I guess manifests itself. Like I was the loudest voice in the room with doctors and surgeons who've been doing this for 35 years. You know, and I know nothing, literally nothing about medicine in the way, certainly in the way that they do. You know, but I felt like I knew my kid. And I was damn sure going to ask the hard questions that maybe my wife was unwilling to ask because she didn't want to upset people and make people uncomfortable. I didn't care literally at all about those things. Do you ever turn to the doctors and say, is my son going to die? I did and there was a moment where, I mean, there were two situations that spell this out in plain English.

The head of infectious disease at Yale came to me, just me by myself. Now he goes to my church and he said to me, Mr. Benavento, I want to prepare you as a husband and a father for what's coming your way. your son has less than a 10% survival rate based on the situation at hand. And you need to prepare yourself and your wife and your other children for what is going to come your way. So period. He didn't say your kid's going to die, but he said your kid is 10% or less chance to survive. The other doctor who was his surgeon, who did the two emergency surgeries that he had, said, I've had 20 plus kids in this very same situation, post-transplant, immunocompromise, fungal infection.

bang bang bang in 25 years of doing surgery as the head of pediatric surgery here i've never had a kid survive ever not one time and so that's basically your kid's going to die and so both of those things were said to me directly and and you know from there you're literally just praying for a miracle man and just praying that do you think it was a doctor do you think it was god oh i believe god say my son yeah because the doctors told me straight up that they not only had they never fixed this situation But in many instances, they didn't even know what to do. You know, so like he got far enough along, you know, let's say a month out where, you know, they were trying protocols that they had literally never tried before.

For example, for his lung infection, they, what they did was they installed a drain in his lung and poured antifungal acid, literally, in his lung and let it sit there for four hours a day to wash out his lung and try to kill whatever infection was there. That had never been tried before. Certainly for the duration and certainly, you know, four hours a day for 75 days, they did this to my kid to try to fix something that had never been fixed before.

So they were trying experimental stuff and didn't even know how to do or what to do next and didn't expect it was going to work. And do they just, I'm very curious. Yeah. Throughout this process, do you have any say on that? Are they pulling you aside and saying, hey, we're going to give this a go and you're green lighting it or not?

Yes, yes. So there, but the framing is, hey, if we don't do something, he's dead. And so here's what our vision is. We're going to try something we've never tried. It's very risky. Here are the risks. We don't expect it to work, but we feel like we should try. And so the answer, and that happened three or four different times for us.

And the answer in every case was, okay, you know, go ahead. And what does this do? And this might be a question that. you might not have asked, but for his life expectancy and his quality of life moving forward. They are now saying that, you know, so we went from sub 10% chance of survival to 90 plus percent full recovery now. And so like he's getting ongoing care to manage the progression of the fungal infection, which he'll be taking pills for, probably for the rest of his life, to keep things in check and make sure it doesn't come back. It's kind of like cancer, right?

If you have cancer and remission, you're still engaging in the process. You're in remission and you're good, but you got to make sure it don't come back. That's sort of what it is with him. And so, you know, we're going to be doing this for a while. But now, I mean, like, they expect that he's going to, you know, play sports. Like, he's on the lacrosse team and we go to practice. And he like, this is nuts, dude. You know, he's three and a half months off a broken back and spinal, you know, fusion surgery. And he's thrown and catching, you know, with his buddies at practice, with a helmet on. And, like, preparing to try to play again, not this year, but at some point in the future. And they think he will. They think he'll play football, tackle football in the fall. You know, so like. And how does that, how do you mold the way you parent him? Like, are you, you let him play tackle football? I mean, doctor says he's clear to play tackle football. My kid said he wants to play tackle football. I'm going to let him play tackle football because, you know, they've said that, you know, we're not there yet, but at a certain point, the spine with the titanium rods and the fusion surgery is actually stronger than otherwise. So the likelihood of him breaking his back in the same

spot is less than me or you breaking our back in that spot, you know, unsupported. And so, you know, but I think your question is a really good one. Well, I mean, it's just what you just said, I would love to know what informs that because I have a feeling that we're getting a little softer you know, in terms of the way I grew up and the way that kids are being parented today and what I just heard you say is that if my son wants to do something, whether that's tackle football or drama

or pick up an instrument, you're going to let him do that. I mean, yeah, for sure. Where does that come from? I think for me, and I'll go back to go forward, I'm going to answer your question. I have been wrestling with this a little bit because now, I find myself a little bit softer on him now than I've been historically,

you know, because when your kid is dying in front of you, literally, and he comes home and he wants to play video games with his boys because he hasn't, he's been out of school for 10 months and socially he hasn't connected with all these kids and he's just starting to get back into the swing of things. Like, I'm kind of okay with him playing a little more video games. We got him a cell phone. I waited until eighth grade for his brother. I got him one in seventh grade because like the kid had a broken back.

He was in the hospital. He wanted his cell phone. I was like, all, kid, here's your cell phone. You know, so like I've exhibited leniency and, you know, bent my own principles based on the nature of the situation. But I think from, you know, from my vantage point, it's based, my actions around him and parenting of him are based upon his identified goals for himself, right? So, like, this kid was a three sport world.

world burner his entire life. Get it from dad or mom? His dad's a hard worker. His mom's probably more athletically gifted than I am for sure. You know, but I guess maybe a little bit of both because he's a hard worker too. But, you know, so world burner sports wise, super social kid, popular. Everybody likes. He's just a nice kid.

He's not a jerk. He's a nice kid. You know, so like whatever I want, I know that he's the same. same person and believes he can accomplish the same things. And so, you know, he's wanted to compete at the highest level in sports. He wants to be a college athlete. He has his whole life, you know, he's a great lacrosse player and a great football player. And so if a doctor says there's no statistically significant risk associated with him playing, he's going to play because I know that that's what he wants for himself. And I think, you know, I think where parents go wrong sometimes

is their own trepidation and anxiety colors their propensity to put a sense. ceiling on their kid, you know, and mom's afraid and dad's afraid, so I'm not even going to let you try. Well, from my perspective, for this kid to ever step into the version of himself that he could potentially be, I have to give him the runway to go pursue all the same things that he wanted to do prior to getting sick because otherwise, I'm sending the message implicitly that you're a sick kid and you're not able, right? And so he's got to believe that his father and his mother, but especially his father believes in his capacity in order for him to achieve up to his fullest potential in my opinion.

Yeah, it's this whole idea of letting go and then supporting. That's it. And I feel like that's in my work and behavioral health care, especially around substance abuse, we see a lot of parents who keep their kids sick because they want to try to control the situation. Yeah. They clamp down harder. Yeah.

The resentment builds. And the kid acts out. Yeah. And I did that. And I did that. So I did that in the beginning. you know, when I first found out that he was sick and I first found out how serious it was from like...

You're going to figure this out. From like July, from like July through October before he had the transplant. I mean, me and his mother were at each other's throats because... That's honest. It's just a truth, man. And I was scared out of my mind, dude. Like, all I thought about was that, you know, it was my job to protect this kid from any increased risk that could, A, hamper our ability to get to the transplant to even potentially save his life

and B, that might make this journey harder in any way, shape, or form. And so like, hey, you want to go out with friends? And no, nope, absolutely not, because, you know, you want to ride your bike, no shot, palpit. We're not taking the risk because you have no platelets. You know, you want to go eat a meal inside at your grandmother's house. Nope, we're doing it here and we're not restrict you. We're keeping you restricted from literally everybody because, you know, this one has germs and they were sick last week and whatever. So like I, I shrunk his world to try to keep him safe by my own definition. And in retrospect, it all came from a place of my own fear and anxiety, man, and desire to want to control, you know. So your career, your teachings. So for

the listener, Vince is a very, very, very, very well known, I would say expert. when it comes to men. I appreciate it. When it comes to young men, specifically ages 14 to 30. You've been doing it in New York and Connecticut in some pretty, you know, high-end neighborhoods and schools and for a long time. And that presents a whole different set of issues.

And that's just how I think about you. Thank you. So you have this book, Boys Will Be Men, Eight Lessons for the Lost American Mail. Yeah. I'm curious and just in your work at Causeway Collaborative and you should look them up. You're exhibiting in this conversation an ability to just be honest, right? And I feel like a large part of what this kind of men's mental health epidemic, like this thing that is happening is that boys and men are just scared to have the conversation.

Totally agree. How has your work fueled your ability to sit here and just hit this thing head on? And then how how do you help Leo, you know, become the same man and kind of know when to put his hand up and ask for help? Because there is trauma here for your son. There's no question. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Thank you for all that, man. You know, humbled and, you know, humbled just to be here, dude, you know, utmost respect for you and everything that you've done. Thank you. Really. For sure. And always have. You know, I think for me, the work. that I've done has always come from a place of my mess. You know what I mean? Like my desire

to work with men and help and support men, you know, came from a place of being a mess, my own self and... But what did that mess look like? Yeah, like, college, go back. Yeah, I mean, so like, you know, college, all right, so I'm... Is it drugs, alcohol, women, depression, anxiety, yeah, like... For sure, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, so, you know, middle school, high school, you know, kind of like decorated, you know, scholar athlete kind of kid, got good grades, you know, was somebody who, you know, was like, you know,

always hanging out on the like the periphery of trouble but never in trouble myself. Really was like trying to prioritize sports and, you know, trying to, you know, wanted to play sports in college and, you know, was doing pretty good up until probably 17. 17, you know, my parents' marriage really hit the skids. A bunch of my buddies started drinking heavy, smoking weed. And so, like, I kind of started running with that. And then, you know, my junior year, back into my junior year, you know, my father, my mother accused my father of being in a gay relationship with his boy, with his best friend who was my godfather and being unfaithful for the last 10 years. with a guy who was literally in our family

and an extension of who I had relationship, who was my godfather, who was my uncle Joe, you know, basically. And so, you know, so my dad denied that. And you know, I really struggled with understanding the nature of the situation and one was, you know, one was saying one thing, one was saying the other thing. And, you know, the confusion around just the chaos and my family really like fueled a lot of anger

and distrust in people in general in me. And so I think my substance use escalated in accordance with that. And by the time I got to college, you know, I went to Wesley and was going to play football there. By the time I got to college, I was a full-blown alcoholic. I was drinking seven days a week to excess, basically. And then that happened, you know, my whole freshman year. Because you didn't want to face the truth about what was going on at home. I think, I think, you know, in combination, I mean, I think, you know, by the time I started drinking and smoking, you know,

I'm a very addictive, excessive person in my nature, right? Always happens. So whether it's been workaholism, you know, for a while it was gambling, you know, for a period of a sex addiction, like, you know, whatever I'm doing, you know, even like more positive stuff like, you know, trying to be a dad, like trying to run business now, like, I'm pretty excessive at everything I've ever done, you know? So like those tendencies, you know, I mean, I was drinking and smoking and like it, it functioned to quiet my mind and numb me out, you know.

So like it just escalated fast. And, you know, like I think there was a part of me that felt like that behavior was fun at the time and fun for the season. And so it really took off until, I mean, after my freshman year, I was so depressed, I couldn't get out of bed, you know. So I was hospitalized for having thoughts of killing myself. I then was put on like some pretty serious medication, a pretty severe cocktail medications coming out of the hospital. Well, how do your, like who shows up for that? that from a, is it your mom? Is it your dad? Or are they split or what? They're split. So I come back from freshman year. Parents are divorced. Dad is now out and openly gay, you know, no longer with the

guy. So it was true. So it was true. Yeah. But from what really jammed me up was his denial and then subsequent admission of truth. And then the way that I had gone at my mother calling her a liar, essentially, you know, for the two years in question where she's accusing him of this and he's completely denying it and lying, you know, be a bull face to my, you know, to me every day. And so all this stuff is just rooted in the truth, man. It's, can humans be honest? It's nuts. And, and like, you know, I mean, I'm like, I'm a 19 year old meathead football player jock guy. And like, you know, I got a dad who's coming out. And this is 25 years ago,

dude. The world was different back then, particularly in suburban Connecticut, you know. So, and it wasn't even honestly my issues with his sexuality because I actually had a lot of empathy and compassion for like his journey. And, and A, I love him. He's my dad, even though he's a mess, his own self, you know. But B, I had a lot of compassion for his journey of not being comfortable with who he was, you know? So like, I understood the why, but I didn't understand that he did that, you know?

And I asked him so many times, like, dude, is this really what's going on? Because like, you know, I'm going crazy mommy here because she's a liar and you're not. So what gives? And so coming out of that, like I was just so confused about everything that, you know, I literally lost my mind. So I had a manic break that following winter. And I was in hospital for a month. Dude, I talk about this, that psychic energy.

Like, there's times in life where we are put in these positions to literally try to filter and decipher through what is true and what is not. Dude, it drives me fucking crazy. I was going crazy, doesn't I become paranoid? Yeah, it's nuts. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I was- I get it, dude.

I had a situation this week. I mean, I get it. Yeah, yeah. Like, I got two people tell me two completely different fucking things. Yeah, and I'm like, just send me the fucking emails. Totally. Totally.

Because I want the truth. Just, please, please. And like, give me the truth and I'll process the truth and I'll handle the truth. But I think for me, when that mistruth and distrust was in my family system and was coming from my parents in opposite directions, I just couldn't like it like broke my mind literally. And so I mean I was 19 years old out of college on a one year medical leave with a mood dis with a diagnosed bipolar one you know, you know, label. And and, you know, out of college working at a deli down the street wearing a hairnet making sandwiches and and, you know,

picking up a class at the community college. You know, so my world was absolutely. eviscerated, and not only by the nature of the situation with my parents, but some terrible decisions by me as well, that I, you know, needed to relearn how to exist as a human being to then redirect myself and figure out how to get back on track. But the irony in all of that is that there was an amazing gift nestled somewhere there, which was, you know, a guy with a mountain in a garbage who didn't know which way to start, eventually used that very same framework that part-time work plus part-time school, scale that up to full-time work plus full-time school, transfer that back to college, finish up where you go, get sober along the way.

And now you got a recipe to figure out how to level up from there once you get the bones right. And so I just, like, I took that like, you know, ridiculous, you know, framework back then and literally made it the skeleton of our business, which has now been running for 15 years, in terms of how you get a guy who's stuck in quicksand, you know, to level up and go from A to B. You know? Are you so, what is it bipolar still? Bipolar for me has been since 19. And so what that looks like now is still, still, you're so mad.

Oh, I take pills. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I've been on, you know, I've been on two mood stabilizer. I've been on one mood stabilizer for now, you know, quick map. 25 years. And I added, you know, this embarrassing, but I'll share. I added another one about eight or nine years ago. Why is it embarrassing? Well, I mean, dirty laundry is embarrassing.

So I'm a- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not embarrassing. Embarrassing because it involves my wife and I, right? I guess is the reason. My doctor added another mood stabilizer eight or nine years ago when we were having trouble in our marriage and I was becoming unwell as a result of managing the stress associated with that. So I've been on two mood stabilizers literally for nine years, one of them going back all the way 25 years ago. Because you love this person so much and you couldn't control your emotions. Is that like then you couldn't figure it? Because we've all like the relationship thing. I think the mental health around a relationship is oftentimes scary. Yeah. I mean, I think with her, you know, I think I felt like there was a genuine possibility that I was going to lose my family, you know, and I couldn't bear to hold that.

You were acting out or you were just, yeah. No, I mean, I think I was. So, I think marriages are messy. And, you know, like I think I did some things that I shouldn't have. have done. She did some things that she shouldn't have done, but specifically for me, and I think you'll relate to this. I mean, I was just working so much that I was a shell of myself, quite honestly, you know, and I think I, you know, in the first eight or nine years, the business was up and running. I mean, I was doing 75, 80 hour weeks every week for eight or nine years. And I would

come home, you know, metaphorically kicking the dog and yelling and screaming because I was so stressed out. We were undermanned at that time. And so I was doing crisis work. I was doing interventions. I was doing transport. Like I was doing anything and everything to make a buck and hustle and grow the business. And like, you know, the sad part of it is I was like being affirmed by everyone for that. You know, like people in the business were, you know, given.

I've lived it. Yeah. People, they're giving me shine because I was doing good work. And, you know, like her and her parents, you know, were praising me for being a good provider. Because you can get on the phone with the family and be an awesome consulting and conceding concedon. Totally. But then you can go put on a t-shirt and. walking to some kids' house and convince him to go get the help he needs.

It's like this, this, this God complex. And I, you know, honestly, man, I appreciate you saying that because my ego was, you know, massive and my own self-importance was heavily elevated. And, and, you know, there's a lot of affirmation that comes alongside saving people and helping people, you know? Like, so I think like, I carried that in an ugly way. I was a terrible version of myself. I was a, you know, an absentee father and a, you know, pretty bad husband for at least a few years for sure, so much so that she came home one day and she was basically like, listen, if I'm going to be a single mother of these kids and you're going to be, you know, an asshole about everything, then I'll just raise them myself and you can get out, you know. And so, you know, that started. Was there a truth in that? Did you believe her when she said it? No, I was angry and defensive and like, did I believe that she was going to do it. I did. Oh, for sure. And I think that was part of.

of like where I started becoming unbalanced again because I knew she was serious, but she don't play, right? Like if she was sitting in this room, like, she's as serious as anybody. And so I knew how serious she was. And I also knew, I mean, like, listen, like she's a five tool gal, you know, like, you know, MBA from Stern, you know, CFO. Like, you know, she, she wouldn't have a hard time, you know, finding the company of someone if she chose to, you know. So, and so I, you know, And more importantly than that, honestly, is I couldn't imagine our family not being together. You know, so I just did the work. Like, we just did the work.

We worked for four years in couples therapy and I was an individual therapy and she was an individual therapy. And I scaled back at work. I went from, you know, 80 hours a week down to, you know, 45, 45, you know, 40. And, you know, made the changes that were required to, you know, fix my marriage and also keep my family together. It's a tough thing to balance. I know for me, I think for any entrepreneur, right? Like hearing you talk about that, it's really valuable because there's always going to become this time.

You know, you're young, you start a business, starts to go well. You have the time to dump. Like, I mean, a lot of people will throw around 80 hours a week. I know what that is. It's heavy, dude. That's like, even if you're working five days week, that's 16 hour days. Long days. You know, or it's 712s.

You know, or 7.11. It's like, yeah, you're just working. People throw numbers around, but 80 hours. Like, that's your whole life. That's your waking life. I mean, listen, like, you know, we bought like, you know, there was one point where, you know, we bought a beach house up in Rhode Island and like, never there. We would go up on the weekends and like, you know, like we could, you know, she would walk

to the beach with the kids in the morning and I would just work. You know, like, I would stay back at the house and work and like, you know, clock out at, you know, five, six on Friday, start doing calls on Saturday morning while she's at the beach with the kids, you know? So like I was just working always. And like even when I was at the beach, I'm texting people, texting people, you know, do this, do that, manage the business. So like, yeah, I mean, I think it's funny because like I think as a man especially, you know, like we're wired to want that. Like everything that I thought I ever wanted was that, you know, like to have a business that was successful, provide for my family, you know, have this, you know, beautiful family that I care.

for with all I had and I wasn't even around to enjoy it. You know what I mean? Like I was so out of balance that like I couldn't even, you know, enjoy the blessings of abundance that had been bestowed upon my life, you know? So it was, you know, it was a it was a hard pill to swallow, you know, because you're aiming in one direction and then it's like what you're doing when you get there is completely the thing that you don't want to be doing. And what does it look like today with Wifi? In terms of the relationship? Yeah, relationship, family, Leo, the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, like we're, I mean, we're coming out of a hard season, you know, we're coming out of a very hard season. I think, I mean, I was having a conversation

with a friend last night who is going through a very, very difficult time in self. And, you know, he want to sit with me and pick my brain because he knows that we were in a, you know, tough spot. But I said to him, like, I don't think Gina and I get through the Leo season without the garbage that we went through years before and the work that we did and the restoration and the healing and so on. And so, you know, I think, I mean, I'm, you know, working on my own stuff coming out of this situation with my son. I think, you know, she is as well. There's a workpiece where we're sort of digging out there and there's a backlog. So there's stress. But, I mean, I think there's a, you know, there's a togetherness and there is a bond, you know, based not only

on what we've been through, but who we've become together, that's incredibly powerful, you know. And, you know, I feel good about our ability to work together and help our son move through this season, you know. Is there, and I'm not trying to get in the bedroom with you, but is there, is there intimacy? Is there still? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure.

Yeah, for sure. And, and I mean, like, there's not when you're in a hospital for 150 days, you know. And like full disclosure back to you, like I had to wrap myself around that. You know, like that was like a cataclysmic event for me as a man with a, you know, with needs and, you know, who's incredibly attracted to this woman and, you know, whatever. So, so I had to do my own work around being a man of integrity and managing my own expectations during that, you know, basin of of the worst, you know, when we were in it. But I mean, yeah, I mean, we are, you know, I think anybody who knows us will say we have a really good marriage and we've come from hard things and have stepped in, you know, and are still working on it, obviously, but, you know, are deeply connected. She drives me crazy sometimes. And I, you know, I 5x that level of craziness because I'm a far more unwell, difficult person than she is. But I mean, I love her with everything that I have. And like, yeah, we are very active, particularly when things are good. It's the one area where I think our work

kind of helps us in relationships because there's no conversation that you're not going to be willing to have. No. And, you know, there was a time my life where fear was the driver of literally everything that I did. So. And furthermore, like, if I just expand it, like, guys in general, I think, have a tendency to be the worst.

Like, what, this thing, the trend I'm seeing a lot right now with men is they stay in these relationships or they get in these relationships. Yeah. They start a family. They decide that they're unhappy. Yeah. Or they want to go see what's out there. And rather than sit their wives down or their partner down and say, hey, this isn't working for me or can we work on this or can we get in the therapy, they go and they have the affair so that they don't have to actually have the hard conversation, then they get caught and the kind of decisions made for them.

That's it. Absolutely. And that shit is like the weakest. Brutal, dude. It's absolutely. Yeah, it's brutal. And I think it's because we don't have a lot of reps having those hard conversations. you know and guys don't practice like guys aren't in therapy guys aren't going a couple's therapy

guys aren't doing the work that you've been doing for a million years so on that point yeah men here's a deal a lot of the listeners here are moms wives sure girlfriends it's just a it's female head is who listens yeah and and and i think yeah where i found so much beauty in this listenership is that they then take these conversations yes and they're helping their men to have Totally. Harder conversation. So let's talk a little bit about your work. Yeah, sure, sure.

And the book, because I want to know, we talked about a lot of stuff. Yeah. It doesn't just happen overnight. Like, what are your beliefs around what men need to hear today? Yeah, yeah. So I'll draw a couple lessons from the book that I think are important. And, you know, the lessons. And again, I'm just going to say, boys will be men, eight lessons for the Lost American Mail.

Yeah, I appreciate that. So a couple of lessons. So finding your wild is one of my favorites. and it speaks to this kind of cohort of men and dads, right? Like guys in their 40s and 40, 45, 50 who are just dead, you know, no soul, no spirit, no spark, feeling like, you know, the world is kicking them around or the wife is nagging them or, you know, driving in the minivan, you know, dropping off Girl Scout cookies or, you know, driving kids to, you know, practice or, you know, working 80 hours a week or taking a train down to, you know, Grand Central, you know, 5 a.m. for 100 years is just, sucked the life out of them and they don't even recognize who they are. You know, so, you know,

finding your wild is the notion of seeking attributes of life that nourish your soul and fuel your spirit, you know, and kind of reconnect you to a version of yourself that is more representative of who you are and who you want to be, you know, so it, it, you know, calls to action men around engaging in novel activity in, you know, being in nature, in being in silence, in, you know, exploring sort of these primal attributes that help us feel more connected to both each other and what it is to be a man in general. So, you know, finding your wild is a pretty important piece. Do you feel overwhelmed by that thought at sometimes? Because for me, as you're saying that I, there's times when I feel hopeless because I am in this thing. I am in and around

I know all the tools and I do a good job. Yeah, for sure. You absolutely do. But how do you get the 42 year old guy to even start? Yes. And this is years in the making for me. And you've been doing it like daily for literally. I know if I need some shit I'm going to go on a run.

Totally. I'm going to go up to Central Park and I'm going to do some like caveman shit running hills in the woods and I'm going to like connect. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's it. Right. That is such a foreign thought to most people. You know, Jim Smith, who's an insurance.

salesman and sits at a desk 51 hours a week. Where does it start? Yeah, where's the start? I mean, I think it starts in identifying that there's a deficit there from a human soul perspective, right? And that you are a dude who vaguely resembles both who you once were and who you want to be. You know, so I think the delta there and the recognition of the delta there is the start, right? You got to diagnose the problem or hate something to change it before you could change it. You know, so for me, I think, you know, mine was the acknowledgement that I was completely out of balance eight or nine years ago, man. And like, never even conceptualized. What do I want for me that's going to pour back into me?

You know, like, I'm just going to go to work like a robot and, you know, bang the drum for 80 hours a week. Right. But when I gave myself permission to, like, puzzle a little bit and figure it out, like, it's not that hard to find the answer. It's not that hard for you to find the answer. You just got to diagnose the problem and then give yourself the space to go look for the, look for the answer, you know. And how do you apply that to young men? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, so young men for me, I'll flip to a different lesson. It's the finder thing, right? So, you know, for as long as I've known you, Zach and, you know, for as long as we work together, you know, my whole schick is fine in your thing. And that everybody has a thing and their thing is the key that unlocks not only who they have the potential to be, but how they have the potential to make. a living as well, you know, and I think at this table sits two guys who found their thing and their thing became their livelihood in their business, you know, and I think that may be like a cornerstone example there, but I think it doesn't have to be that big either, you know, like finding your thing could be music, it could be service, it could be, you know, architecture,

you know, it could be MMA, it could be whatever, you know, it's just a thing that you can pour yourself into and do, that you do it for free for us. long as you could because it's your thing, you know? And I think, you know, for me, you know, put a cute little story in a book around, you know, was coaching my kids, you know, so like back in the, you know, nine years ago, Causeway version 1.0, Vince was too busy to coach his kids. And Vince thought it was, you know, made excuses about why it was better to have somebody else doing it and how it would be overstepping or, you know, how can I possibly pull out of the, you know, business, you know, operations because of my own self-importance, you know, and probably five seconds into being on

the field with my two boys, I'd never felt more at home in my entire life. And I regard those four years where I coach my boys as like some of the best experiences and best memories I've ever had, you know? So I think for a younger person, it's very easy because you could, I mean, I could, you could, you could, you could sit with somebody for five minutes and know exactly what their thing is, you know? And then my work, Causeway's work, is that. then how do I help this guy iterate the action steps to go make their thing, their thing, and put the plan around the pursuit of and execution of that, wherein they will then, you know, allow that to be the cornerstone of their life.

I'm just thinking of in the workplace. Yeah. All of a sudden we decide that we're going to commit to an initiative. Yeah, yeah. And we do that. The meeting is Monday at 11 a.m. Yeah, yeah. And we're going to meet every Monday at 11 a.m.

and we're going to talk about whatever the thing is. The new marketing plan. The new thing, yeah. The social media posts we're going to do every Tuesday. Sure. We're going to meet Monday around it. Yeah, sure. And for 30 weeks, we nail it.

And in week 31, everyone gets a little busy and I cancel the meeting. In week 32, there's no mention of it. And by week 33, it's gone. Just gone. Literally gone. And so all of these things that you're saying, for me, there needs to be some level of grace because I've been able to keep running for me like running's one of my things that's your thing yeah because I'm so it's no matter what

oh that's it yeah it's oxygen and I and I feel like as humans if we miss one rep or one workout I mean that's why if I run in the morning I'm going to eat healthy all day yeah absolutely if I don't I'm gonna eat like crap for sure for sure yeah for sure so how do you how do you keep people dialed how do you stay in yeah in the thing I mean I stay dialed you know like Like, I mean, it's just, I don't know how to be any other way. And I think I can model it for other people by doing it myself better. You know, like dog wakes up 5.30, we're going. You know, that's it.

Like dogs getting walked, reading the Bible at 6 to 630, we're working out from 630 to to 7. Kids are getting up at 7, drop off at 7.30, you know, days going, home at 5. You get in that gym at 630. You're busting your ass for half hour. Half hour. That's all I got. And it's all I got.

And it is dialed to the minute. it, dude, you know, and weekends, you know, I give myself, I try to get myself one day off on a weekend. Sometimes not, you know, sometimes I feel like I got to get after it, at least from a physical perspective, because my, and I'll just, you know, again, like embarrassing but transparent, my mental health is so fragile that if I don't stay dialed and I don't stay structured, I'm actually afraid of it falling apart, you know, like, and I'm afraid of it's sliding backwards in the wrong direction. And it doesn't take very long to do that, you know, it could be a fight with my wife. Could be a situation at work.

You know, that leads to me, you know, throwing the covers over for two mornings. And I'm in a bad spot, you know. And so that that has happened. Happened when me and my wife were beefing eight or nine years ago. And I had to pull myself out of that. And so, you know, I try to just keep the train on the tracks as best as I can. I have grace for myself when I, you know, when I don't, I try to at least. But, you know, for me, my own mental health is so fragile that honestly, a fear of, you know,

losing progress is the motivating force for me. Yeah, I mean, I just think about that vision of you in the bed with your head, your covers pulled over. And for myself, it's like this idea that my most embarrassing moments come around the people that love me the most because I feel safe to be as raw as possible. Totally. And sometimes that's not pretty. Oh, no. Sometimes that looks like rage. That looks like threats.

That looks like. And so for you to keep saying you're embarrassed, it's fine. I appreciate it. And I give you permission to feel however you feel. But for me, I want you to know I feel less alone in this conversation. I'm identifying with you a lot. I appreciate that. And same.

And I think, you know, I mean, I know we're wired similarly before sitting down at the table, you know. But I think when you start talking about brass tacks, like you actually see how similar things can be amongst people who share common ground. Give me one more lesson. Give me one more lesson. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a good one, I think. And you mentioned the listenership.

I think this is really important. So chapter seven is gentle strength. I wrote gentle strength about coming out of a season where I had spent so much time away from my daughter when she was small that I didn't really know her and certainly didn't know her with the level of intimacy that I wanted for that relationship. And so, you know, it was and also, oh, by the way, I mean, you know me well, like gentle, you know, being gentle in my posture is not something that comes readily, you know, for me. So like I'm wired, you know, aggressive and abrasive and direct and, you know, whatever. So. But being gentle I learned was strength under control and, you know, consistent showing up in a posture of safety in a way that drew her in. You know, and, you know, now we go on dates every weekend, you know, every single weekend, like regardless. And there was a weekend a couple weekends ago where, you know, it was like, we were like slammed all weekend. And like, you know, she had dance, you know, conference way with her mom. I was with the boys all weekend at games, and she came to me and she said, we're good for Sunday.

Because now that routine of us coming together has been something that she now looks forward to and puts stock in because of the consistency of it. So being curious, seeking her heart, you know, moderating my tonality, being honest and good to my word, like have really drawn her into our relationship, which I think is not only healthier, but. required me to learn skills that I didn't really have. How do you find balance between that and the idea that you need to shut your mouth and do more push-ups? Because I think there's a balance that I seek as a man around being tough. Yeah, for sure. And around hustling and being resilient and also having that tender heart.

I became transparent about the delineation in terms of gender-based parenting. And so I parent my boys categorically different than I parent their young. sister, I'm transparent to them about that and the rationale why. And when my sons, because they do, tell me that I'm unfair and I spoil their sister and that I'm way too soft on her, I acknowledge that they are correct. And I tell them that my job in life is to nourish and care for their sister's heart. And my job for them is to hold them accountable to being the best men of integrity that they can possibly be and those jobs are done differently. And I'm not making apologies for that. And so I just lean right into it. For better or for worse, I think that's a strategy that I've implemented with them

and it's honest in terms of my approach. And I think it ends the, it ends the questioning. Yeah, I mean, my hope for men and boys is always just that they have the ability to have conversations like the one that we just had. And don't lose that edge. Yeah. And that's a maybe, maybe that's a Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think honestly, I think I have the utmost respect for my sons and my sons have the utmost respect for me because they know, you know, I wear a bunch of hats for them. You know, like we are, I'm their coach. I'm their dad. We're friends. You know, like we hang out. We play video games. We watch sports. We, you know, do fun stuff. You know, but they know that if they are doing things that are, you know, not representative of who they should be or who they've told me,

they want to be more importantly, then I'm going to hold them to account firmly for that. So I think like anything else, man, like in order to have a situation where you can demand the respect of somebody, you have to have relationship first and foremost. And so, like, I would never be able to hold my boys accountable if they didn't respect me and I didn't respect them.

I hate that we have to wind down here, but that's just the reality of these conversations. So just to kind of double tap on a couple of things, Causeway Collaborative, Are you doing virtual? Are you guys nationwide? I mean, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So quick, you know, quick spiel on Causeway.

Yeah, tell me about Cause. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about Causeway. Yeah. So Causeway Collaborative, um, male specific counseling and consulting group. We are brick and mortar in Connecticut in West Hartford and Westport, brick and mortar in White Plains, New York. Um, we render virtual services literally everywhere.

We have kids in colleges and universities across 24 states and, you know, some people internationally as well. So virtually we can do services anywhere. Uh, and services are. therapy in the form of individual and family therapy, as well as our community-based mentorship program where we're taking guys out and teaching about health and wellness, teaching about activities of daily living, teaching them how to be independent and responsible and helping them socialize and learn new skills. And then we have a career and academic support track that we call futures,

which I developed actually for guys in early phase recovery to help them sort of level up from you know, kind of a get-well job to a, you know, life worth protecting in a career of substance. So that's what we're doing. Well, we've seen it firsthand. Many, many, many of our release brothers have gone to Vince and tapped into his team and their services. And we've seen really incredible outcomes. So if you're out there and you're looking to shift the way that you're heading in life

and you're a man or a young boy or whatever you want to say, I encourage you to look up, Vince. All right. Last question, man. Yeah. It seems kind of, I don't even know. we ask the question, what keep, you know, like keep going to my mantra. Like, yeah, you kind of gave a lot of examples today, but what, uh, why do you keep going, man?

Like, what do you, what do you say to the boy out there who's having a hard time or what, what has helped you? Yeah, yeah. Um, why do I keep going? Um, I don't think that I have a choice, truthfully. Um, you know, I believe that everything is, you know, God breathed and God ordained. I, you know, the path that I'm on, the talents I have, whatever I could offer somebody, is mine to give in earnest, you know, and, and, you know, there's been times when I've wanted to and have tried temporarily to get out of this thing. I can't. It's who I am. It's where I am. It's what I'm doing. It's in service to people. And I'm going to be doing it for as long as I can, you know, so, you know, I believe that I can continue to help support other young men who've gone

the same path that I have. Yeah. Well, Vince, I think for me to close out here, what I want to say to you is I believe you. Like, I actually believe the words that you speak and I get in the room with a lot of people. I'm around a lot of people and you're on social media and you see people talk and you kind of question that. But you have a lived experience. You've been vulnerable. And, you know, you have like this motivational speaker affect, I think, when you get in the room with people.

and I would just encourage you to lean into it because I think your story and your message is very valuable. And, you know, I'm grateful to know it. And I think more people need to know it. So thanks for coming. Thank you, bud. Thank you very much. Thank you.