The Zac Clark Show - Hollywood, Fame & Mental Health: Stephanie Szostak’s Journey of Self-Discovery

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

At 30, Stephanie Szostak made the bold decision to pursue acting – despite the long odds of success and the skeptics who questioned the move. Audiences soon came to know her from The Devil Wears Prada, her turn opposite Steve Carell and Paul Rudd in Dinner for Schmucks, and her role in Marvel’s Iron Man 3. But beyond the red carpets and film sets, Stephanie has carved out another identity: author and advocate for mental health, resilience, and self-discovery.In this conversation with, Stephanie opens up about:Her leap from business school and Chanel to modeling and then acting at 30.The lessons she learned working alongside stars Kevin Bacon and Meryl Streep.How her brother’s struggle with heroin shaped her path.Why she wrote Selfish: Step Into a Journey of Self-Discovery to Revive Confidence, Joy, and Meaning, a book that distills her tools for navigating mental health in high-pressure environments.The reality of Hollywood’s mental health challenges and the relentless pressure to succeed.Stephanie’s story is one of courage, reinvention, and choosing purpose over expectation. Whether you know her from her films, her book Selfish, or her advocacy, her journey is a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to begin again – and that caring for your mental health is the ultimate act of strength.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

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It's free and it's led by great people. Check it out. Rock and roll. Thanks, thanks, Naya. Thanks for being here. Grateful for both of you. Welcome back to the Zach Clark show.

Today, this is a funny one. So Stephanie's show stack is with us today. And I'm going to tell a story before I properly introduce her. Stephanie was actually talking to my COO, Matthew, about some project. this app, this playbook app that she's created and kind of rolling out into the world. And he's kind of a tech guy.

So she was asking for some advice. And then he started doing some due diligence on Stephanie and realized that she's been in all these movies and she's had this beautiful acting career. And he called me and said, like, she should totally come on the podcast. And I said, I did like one little search. And I was like, incredible. Not just for your acting, but the advocacy you're putting out into the world and just your belief and kind of self-improvement.

The book, Selfish, which we'll get into. So Stephanie, Showstack, welcome. That was a very long introduction. Thanks, Zach. I liked it. It was personal in the moment. I'm very thankful to be here. I love the work that you do.

Thank you. Thank you. So in terms of films, we got the Devils We're Prada. We got dinner for Schmucks, Iron Man 3. We were kind of talking off camera that you've probably worked with a lot of very cool people, which we can save that conversation for a later date. I want to start with golf. All right.

You played college golf. I did. William and Mary. I mean, like, how did that, you're from France? How did that, how does someone from Paris, France, with this amazing accent, end up playing golf in Virginia, right? My dad's, yeah, Virginia, at William and Mary. My dad is American, so there you go. Okay.

He was a scratch golfer for most of his life, and that's kind of what we did. And so I followed and sort of did it, didn't really love it, but I was kind of good and started competing as a teenager and then went off to college to play golf, which that was actually an amazing experience because of the competition and the team spirit and also falling on your ass a lot and, you know, miss not playing well. I think golf is an amazing lesson for life. In so many ways. You shank the ball. You never expect it and you get to recover. The thing I love about golf and sobriety is everyone's cheated in golf. At least I will say I have cheated before in golf.

But once I got sober and I have a conscience, it's I can't, I couldn't really cheat anymore. And I would maybe have a suspicion that someone I was playing with was cheating. And it's just all about acceptance and just letting go. And if someone wants to cheat, that's their own. I might not do business with them, but they can win the whole. hole if they really want to. So I'll tell you a story you might like. My dad caddied for me. This was my first tournament ever. So I'm probably 12. And I'm playing with a lady and I'm a kid and like a lady like like a lady like my age now. Okay. And you're in a competition. No, it was metal play. So but just

you have to keep your own score. Oh my God. I love this. And so we get on the green. I get on the green and my putters lined up behind my ball and I'm looking towards the hole. And as I do that, my putter moves the ball slightly, you know? And I'm like, like this. And the lady goes, it's okay, just put it back. And my dad goes, oh, no, that's a penalty stroke. And it was the first hole. And I look at him.

I'm like, I hate you. And he's like, that's a penalty stroke. So he taught me early on. Amazing. I love that. Do you feel, I want to get into the point in your career because it's amazing. You kind of go to college, you play golf, and then. You have a little bit of like a quarter-life crisis where you change your entire career, right?

So I guess my question is, do you attribute any of that to kind of, like was your dad hard on you around the golf? Did you feel like there were expectations not to? Yeah, I mean, I was a people pleaser, definitely. Didn't want to rock the boat and wanted to do what I was expected to do. and played golf, then went to school for business and worked at Chanel in the business world for two and a half years. And then all of a sudden I was like, hmm, the office life isn't really something that I think is going to fulfill me. And so I think that's the midlife or a quarter midlife crisis you were referring to.

I'm young. I'm 26 years old. Quarter, so that makes you mean that 104, that'd be a good life. No, 26. 26 times 4 if it's your quarter life crisis oh yeah yeah I was like 25 that's 100 I'll take 100 my my grandma lived till she was 101 so no way yeah good jeans good jeans really good jeans really good jeans really good jeans you didn't get it is it a TV yeah oh it's an advertisement that's causing a whole lot of

yeah it's okay we'll just skim well it's funny because it actually like Like, one of my last questions today, like the producers are trying to make me a little bit more funny or fun. And I was going to say, I don't watch TV. What is the one television show if you could live in it that you would pick? Like if you were living in the show and you had to live in that show forever. Me? Yeah. Holy shit.

A television show that I could live in would have to be something fun. Like Cheers is like, that feeds my alcoholism, but I don't know. shrinking is that the name of it shrinking yes because they're all into freaking mental but it's also funny and they're themselves yes i'd be that and with harrison ford and everybody else okay so shrinking so we got that out of the way already that's i'm doing good i'm staying on task today i'm staying on task um so at 26 are you living in new york when you're working living in new york city and i start modeling put all that college education to good use and start modeling, then that leads to doing commercials and eventually taking my first act.

You're not going to get past a modeling thing that easy. So was it modeling like you're out partying modeling or was it just you were? No. I, I have to say, I had a brother who was had addiction, was a heroin addict, and he was eight years older than me. He was my hero. He was, you know, my big brother. Like, I don't know if you, I know you have older siblings. But, my role model in a weird way, but he also taught me to stay away from drugs. So I was not partying. I never felt comfortable in that scene. But I did travel to Japan, to Spain.

I did fashion catalogs. So you say it was because you lost your brother, right? I did. Yeah. Yeah. And so may I ask a few questions? Yes. Please keeps him alive.

So I like to talk about it. That's beautiful. I actually believe that. Yeah. I know that he's with us today. So he was 34. You were 26. It's interesting.

I talked to a lot of people. I work in behavioral health care. And what you just said really hit me between the eyes because the idea that you, so what I will hear a lot of times is if someone has an alcoholic mom or dad or they have an alcoholic brother or sister or someone who's got a substance use disorder, that will keep them sober for a period of time. Like they might start drinking or drugging later. They might. But for you, it actually worked.

Because your brother was a heroin addict, you stayed away from... Yeah, I mean, I think when I was a teenager, I definitely smoked. He gave me my first joint. Does that feel like you're breaking a rule there by saying you smoked? Smoked me? Well, at the time, it was like drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm older than you.

But even that, I just remember having paranoia and this feeling of losing control and I didn't like that. I hated weed. Yeah. Weed was not for me. And drinking, I drank, but I never, I definitely got drunk, got sick in college, you know, but my dad was amazing. He said to me, you'll always know the moment where you're like, I should probably not have another drink. And he goes, and sometimes you'll listen to that voice and sometimes you want. Did you listen to that voice, Grace? No, no. Grace. See, but he told me, he told me, he told me, he told me, he told me that before I went to college and I think just that gave me awareness and maybe it wasn't in me too yeah so I don't like excess yeah well it's one of the things we do in recovery is

you make amends and so grace who's in the room helping produce the show because sarah's out went to SMU and as part of manual and release you which we're you know kind of talking about outside of this podcast we're going back to the college where grace went and I'm excited because she's got some amends to kind of crank out and she probably ran through some fences and it's right grace parking garages parking yes would you do the parking garage i told my car in a parking garage that's amazing how old were you 22 8 a.m blackout drunk it's a lot of velocity to get in a parking garage to total a car i also didn't touch any cars There's all the poles.

Wow. It's amazing. We'll have to get that story on camera. I know. I love that you're smiling and that... She just had three years. Yes, that's amazing. The most ridiculous story.

I mean, I have a ton of them, but that one, that one's pretty good. Amazing. All right. I like where this is going. We got good energy going here, Stephanie. Okay. So your brother, you're watching him. It helps you...

Total his car a bunch of times, too, by the way. Yeah. was he living? In France, in suburbs of Paris, we lived. And did you, this is, you said 30 years ago? Yeah, yeah. Can you give any insight to what the world, how the world received him in terms of having, did he ever get treatment? Did he ever get help? He didn't want to, he did not want to, he wanted to stop using heroin. He was 20 when we found out. And he only used heroin for about a year and a half. But he got cirrhosis and hepatitis C and was HIV positive because of it.

My parents were amazing. My dad actually lived outside of our apartment in another, like, different town for over a year with him to sort of get him out of the environment. And I think that's what, because before that, you know, he would get, I know you're not supposed to say get clean anymore. The language thing's gotten out of control. You can say he got clean. He kept, we stopped using and then used again, and we had that dance for a long time.

But eventually he got out of it. He became a Rastafari, as a religion, and that's really, that's what helped him. So he still smoked weed every single day. He had dreadlocks down to beard like this, lots of wisdom, too smart for his own good. So how the world received him. There was a lot of looks even after because he looked different with his dreads. But my family was, my parents were really, they didn't really care about other people's looks. I don't, there was no shame.

People talk a lot about shame. There was no shame, but there was definite discomfort, embarrassment. I didn't talk. When I found out he was on heroin, I was 11 and I didn't tell anybody at school because It was just too much. Scary. Very scary. And also very scary at home.

There was a lot of volatility and anger. Well, there weren't a lot of resources. No. He could have, we talked a lot about going to see a psychologist, which he had when he was a teenager because he got kicked out of schools and all that, but he never wanted to talk to anyone. Is your brother's siblings? No.

So it's your brother? Yeah. Okay. No, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because, and it's something that we kind of talk about here at release and in the office and in the world a lot is I make it very clear to use the word heroin when I talk about my addiction or substance abuse because it's a word that's been demonized and kind of stigmatized. And people think it's this really nasty, dirty word. and it's just not. I mean, I see the word heroin the same as I see beer or weed.

That's interesting. Yeah. He actually, my brother actually said to me, he goes, you can try anything. Don't try heroin. I remember him saying that. It's strong. But I love that you say that because, yeah, it's just people will find their thing, right? I mean, especially in today's world.

there are so many and we were talking a little bit about this before we came in the room there's just so many addictions yeah sex addiction phone addiction gaming addiction gambling addiction porn porn addiction it's not just shopping you name it yeah you name it and and for me I think one of the things that I try to do is give people permission to ask for help regardless of what it is. So for me, maybe it was heroin. For you, maybe it's sex or diet or whatever, like, whatever it is. I feel like we live in a world where it's just so scary to put your hand up and say, like, hey, I need help with this. I agree. I think especially when you're young, it's hard to ask for help because you think, I don't know, it's almost like a survival thing.

You've got to be strong. You've got to be, otherwise people are going to get to you. So asking for help is kind of a weakness can be seen as a weakness, I think, when you're young. Which brings me to your moment. So you're 26 to 30-ish, you're modeling. You make a nice little career out of that, and then you decide to get into acting. I mean, at 30 years old, how do you crack? I mean, how did you do it? I mean, how did you?

Because, you know, you've been in some really big stuff. You've had a really nice career. And it's interesting to me that you go to school for business, you work at Chanel, you become a model, and then all of a sudden... I take a theater class at 29. It took me, by the way, like two years or three years to listen to that small little voice that was like, what if I took an acting class?

And so finally I get my... So you sat with it for three years like this thing. Yes, because it was like, who the hell do you think you are? Come on. Yeah. I love this story, okay. How I did it I mean I loved it so much

that I just had to keep studying and then I got some independent movies I got early on a great indie that went into Tribeca I had the lead female role but then the producers

didn't have the music rights so the movie never was released so it was a lot of up Is it still out there? Could it ever get released? It's I think yeah you can probably rent it now somewhere on or something. But yeah, I just kept doing it

and there was a little bit of a fuck you added to other people because a lot of people were like, what are you doing? You know, somebody asked my husband she thinks she's going to end up in Hollywood or something. Were you married at the time? Yeah. Yeah.

And he supported you. Yes. That's awesome. It's such a valuable lesson too for people in my shoes and recovery and that's a lot of the people that listen here, a lot of parents that listen to this hoping the best for their son or husband or whoever it might be.

I just think it's so crazy when I'm talking to a 23 or 24 year old and they think their life is over. And here you are at 30, which is still very young, but taking a complete different direction and finding a career that you love. Yeah, I think that looking back, I didn't know at the time, but looking back, I also think I'm like, that is such a good lesson.

that you never know what's ahead, that you can keep exploring and discovering and learning. And I wrote a book, you know, three years ago in midlife. I never thought I would do that. I do speaking. I was so shy. And so just keep exploring. You never know what you're going to discover.

Yeah, we're going to get into, I mean, the recent part of your life is what's really intriguing to me because you've just done so much good in the world. But I'm going to finish on this thought pattern here. Wait, I want to ask you a question. Yeah, ask anything. Because you asked me, how'd you do it? One big thing for me was my theater teacher.

She was so tough. She was from the actor's studio. She was super, like old school ballet teacher, mean, ridiculous. Dance mom vibes. I don't like to watch that. No, dance mom is like, I think, like, we keep on picking on Grace, but Grace was a dancer growing up. And like, you know, there's like certain moms.

think that are around the dance studio that are like, you're going to do it this way and I'm going to watch you. And if you don't do it this way, then we're just going to do it again. Or more like the movie, the drummer. What was that movie? Whiplash. Yeah. Did you see that? Can't say I've seen whiplash. Okay. Oh, it's amazing. Anyways, so yeah, very whiplashy dance mom, briby. But tough love. But I think that is a reason why it really motivated me and to just to study to push myself to keep going and to go through all the rejection and all that was there was something about that and the way reason I'm asking you is because you're into behavioral health and it's such an old school kind of thing to be tough

because we're all now especially in parenting about being encouraging and lifting people up is Do you think there's value in tough love? This is my question to you. I think you're asking one of the best questions you could ask. What I heard you just explained was some form of probably trauma, if I'm being honest, right? Like, but how do you draw a line between trauma and someone that really wants the best out of you and is doing it in a way that they feel like it's going to activate or motivate you?

Like, I can say for myself, I played sports growing up I actually want to be told what to do I want to be coached I want to be given direction that makes it very clear to me so I never minded when someone got in my face

now what I've learned in my career working with other people is I can't assume what worked for me works for someone else right so just because someone got in my face said get down and give me 10 push-ups and I did those 10 push-ups I was like all right let's go

like I'm going to do it better this time the next person that I I talk to, I tell them to give me 10 pushups, they might, yeah, put their finger up or try to fight me or just quit. Right. And give up. Yeah. And so I would turn it back on you and say, do you think back on that time in your life fondly? Do you feel like you've processed it? Do you feel like you were really just trying? Because I don't think there's anything wrong. If you said to me, no, I was just trying to get at her and win. No, I think I definitely processed it. And I think I know this about me, too.

I am motivated by negative reinforcement. What I had to learn how to do was be okay with positive reinforcement, because that actually used to make me... God forbid someone tell you a good job. Yes, and then I would almost have to prove them that I suck. I actually got trained to fight when I did Iron Man 3, and my coach was like, great job. And I was like, don't tell me that.

I'm just going to fuck it up on the next day. He was like, okay. So I learned to, I guess I learned, what I learned was my ego would either get inflated or would get completely deflated with other people's validation or lack of. And so I learned to realize that my value does not come from the outcome, that it comes, it needs to come from inside, from the work that I do, from my effort, from how to show up. It's hard. I know, like, for me, one of my love languages is definitely, like, words of affirmation.

I need to be told, hey, good job. And I really, that fuels me. That's not always, like, the easiest thing as the boss because, like, no one wants to tell the boss, good job. You know, it's like this polarizing position I find myself in sometimes. But it's interesting. Can you sing? Do you know how to sing? No.

Why are you asking me this? Well, I mean, so, one, I'll probably become an actor one day. So one of my fears when I become an actor is that I can't sing. Oh, you mean you can't carry a tune? I can't, no, I can't say. I can carry a tune. You can. Yeah.

So if you were auditioning for a role, you could. Okay, so this is what's happening. I'm going to ask some questions about acting because like here's the truth. I've, I've so many unanswered questions about acting and I want to get into the mental health side of Hollywood. But like, if you can't sing, do you not get the job? No, so I actually had to audition for a role where they asked me to sing. So I go to a recording studio, and I'm like, we're going to do this song, and we start,

and he's like, oh, you get a good voice. And but I can't come in at the right time. I keep coming a beat earlier, a beat later. And so finally I look at him on the other side of the mirror. I'm like, what is going on? Why am I doing that? And he goes, no rhythm. So that's why I can't sing.

No rhythm. No rhythm. I don't hear the, I can't clap. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever told this. I mean, I'm just like, this is really jogging a lot of stuff for me. Do you know what Soul Cycle is? Yeah. So one day we're going to find, so I audition to be a Soul Cycle instructor at one point in my life. Okay. Which was the most embarrassing thing ever. I was in New York. I was single and I was, I went to a group workout with friends and I was like able to get through the workout pretty good. the girl, Jordan, who was one of the friends at the workout, we were breakfast afterwards. And she's like, have you ever thought about teaching at SoulCycle? I said, no, she was the person who kind of set up the auditions. She said, come take a couple of classes and see how it is.

So I start going to a couple SoulCycle classes and she says, I want you to try out. Like I want you to, but I had it like earmarked. I've never been more embarrassed in my life, Stephanie. I walk into this studio in Tribeca. They're like main training studio. There's probably a hundred people there. They are bedazzled and have fun colors on. And I'm just like walking in like a black t-shirt and black shorts.

And you basically get 60 seconds, two songs. So I had to choreograph two songs for 60 seconds. And I was maybe like, so there's a first round. They pushed me through the first round. because I knew Jordan and then the second round is when you get to do your songs and I'll never forget like the first person

to get on their bike got on and screamed into the mic like let's fuck and like he just was he had it and he was like he had the rhythm and the beat and the whole thing going

and I clamped up like in as a turtle on my bike and I can't do that and I got up on the bike and it was the longest two minutes of my life I think I just stood up and just paddled

for two minutes I did not put into a box that you didn't fit in it was horrible it was Nause if I ruled my song choice was horrible I pissed Nause if I ruled the world

and Mr. Big to be with you like terrible riding songs the whole thing I ran so far out of that studio as quick and I have not set foot back

in this whole cycle it was horrible you learned and you wouldn't be doing what you're doing now. No, I was doing this. I was going to, like, this was going to be a side, like, in my delusional mind, I was going to wake up at 6 a.m. and teach a 6 a.m. and a 7 a.m. and then go run a business.

Wow. Yeah. How many things do you have to do to prove that? There's some issues here. When do you know you make it as an actress? Like, when is the moment? Never. You don't think you've made it.

Made it? No, because I've been unemployed right. now for you know 16 months I do have a movie coming out in October which is well let's plug it it's called soul on fire it's a true story John O'Leary who got burnt as a child and then worked through his trauma and it's a beautiful story um but yeah you know I've been unemployed for 16 months so definitely haven't made it but there's a lot of people in this world that would love to have your resume I do too I love my resume I'm very proud of my career but it's it's to be continued, and there's a lot of unknown, and all that is fine.

So as you've gotten into, because I want to shift gears more towards your book and self-discovery and this whole, I love the title of the book, Too Selfish. I mean, it's just, it's such a great word, and I feel like everyone deserves to be selfish, right? Like, we all deserve to love ourselves and do things nice for ourselves, and we think for some reason we shouldn't. The name came from a branding company. My friends work at Little Big Brands. And they gave me some names.

And I saw this and I was like, well, that's not going to be the name. And then it stuck with me. And I was like, wait a minute, it could be like self-ish. And then I thought, you know, our most important relationship is the relationship we have with ourselves. And then I thought this is all about self-discovery and learning who was. we are so that we can be who we are in the world and about spending time every day to remind ourselves of who we are and what helps us be who we are. So I thought, okay, let's do it.

It's a little bit not, doesn't fit the space of mental health, well-being. You know, it's a little bit rebel. And I was like, let's go with it. So prior to the knowledge you have today, because you've clearly evolved a lot as a human, do you remember in your first I'm always curious about the devil wears Prada or Iron Man 3 when you walk and it's the first day is it like a family do you walk in there are you kind of eyeing people up do you find your safe people is it truly just work like you're in and out or like what what's the actual

experience of acting in one of these big movies from a mental health perspective and from just like a relationship perspective well i'll tell give you the before and after okay so before would for me would be i'm walking into this brand new environment and i'm just afraid uh what are people going to think about me uh i have to be nice um i have to be a good actor i'm concerned uh i'm acting and then i see people in video village and the producers and the director and i keep thinking looking at them thinking what are they saying about me everything is revolving around me basically not in a good way just in a very self-conscious way for me it got so much like that

that it paralyzed me um my first big movie was dinner for schmucks and i remember going home at night and watching movies uh there was a movie with jennifer aniston on and i was looking at her you know she does those really cute faces and I was like, oh, I should do that tomorrow. And like you said when you were soul cycle and you said, I can't do what this guy was doing, I felt like I lost my ability to bring my shit to the part to shine in my own way. So I worked for, you know, 10 years developing my craft and it all went away. I was just playing the quality, trying to. to be the thing that other people wanted me to be. And then the after, after doing a lot of work,

now when I go on a set, it's unknown and I love that. I think about giving to people. That's something that, you know, everybody I meet and learning about them, so asking questions, just relationships. I think to myself, one of the things I repeat to myself is I'm not inferior or superior to anyone and so it's and embracing the unknown and then knowing I'm going to have good days and bad days but not judging so trying not to judge myself having grace grace I just told you that for myself and others so yeah and just taking risks on set so if you never was there a moment where you said I'm going to have to really work on myself if I want my career yeah Talk about that?

It was a movie, so I did dinner for schmucks, and after that I did a movie called RIPD, which was the bomb of the summer, like total flop. But it was with Ryan Reynolds, Kevin Bacon, and Jeff Bridges. So pretty good cast. And we were sitting in pre-production, the director, the four of us, and everybody took a break except Kevin Bacon and me, and he was his head buried in his script, and concentrating and I had a crush on him when I was in my 20s and I was like holy fuck there's Kevin Bacon but I reached I said hey I don't want to bother you I just wanted to say I saw

the movie the woodsman I don't know if you saw it it was a small indie he plays a pedophile it's a tough movie tough role I said I thought he was amazing in it and he looked up with such vulnerability and he said wow man thank you so much for saying that not too many people watch that one and then he goes i'm such a mess i didn't sleep last night i always get like this before a new movie and i was like what you get you get and i didn't say but in my head i'm like you get like this you know you're kevin bacon yeah it's kevin bacon like you show up and and that really helped me because i realized oh my god he's a huge movie star he's done you know six degrees of kevin Bacon, because he's done so many movies, and he still gets like this.

So that sort of helped me realize it's okay to feel like that. What I just need to work on is how do you operate when you feel like that? How do you take it and work from it? And I was commuting between Boston and New York. For that movie? Yes. And I'm at Penn Station going back to Boston, and there was a. a movie, a book called The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra.

And I had heard Deepak Chopra on the AM radio in L.A. like a few weeks before that. And I was like, who's this guy? This really resonates. And so I picked up the book. I was really embarrassed because I thought self-help stuff was crazy and stupid. God forbid someone see you working on yourself. Yes.

But I still picked up the book. And I read it, the whole thing on the train back to Boston. And I called my husband when I got to Boston, I was like, I just read a book, it's going to change my life. And it was, you know, all these principles that spoke to me, but I realized I wasn't living by any of those. Gratitude giving, embracing the unknown. And I made myself seven flashcards for the seven laws. And every morning I would flip through them before I would go on set. That was my first version of a playbook.

And that really helped me. And so you got through that filming with the assistance of this book, where it was Kevin Bacon, was he a giver? Was he nice? Such a gift. So there was, I think, a chapter about giving. And I remember being on set and being like, oh, my God, look at Kevin Bacon. He's coming to the makeup trailer with apples.

Look at Jeff Bridges. He's being so nice to him. They're all doing these things. And it made me realize how other people are. Yes, he was so giving. He did a, we had a scene that was a phone call. and he was in the airport. Normally you do the phone call scene with a reader

who's just going to read the other actors, and he got on the phone with me so that I could hear his voice. No, I mean, look, and this is where I get jammed up a lot of times in life, is, and the book Selfish kind of plays into this, I know the value of service,

and there is a selfish element in service for me. because when I am serving or if I'm giving I can't be thinking about myself right like I can't I have to be thinking if I'm bringing you a glass of water I'm focused on bringing you that glass of water not why my day is terrible and in recovery we learn a lot about that there's a saying like the greatest gift is in the giving you know which I've always found to be very beautiful it's from the big book and A.A and that always just seems so simple and so beautiful and so pure and and it's true it changes you when you focus on giving you know if you're annoyed with somebody or whatnot and all of a sudden you're like okay how can what could I give to this person yeah give a little listening and all of a sudden it literally changes your how you're feeling yeah you're probably gonna have fun with that i mean like when you walk under these sets from now on and there's like the young actress coming in you can kind of hopefully give some of your experience i do i played a mom quite a bit and i love having tv kids i do give a lot and create relationships it's Fun.

And are they, is Hollywood awake to some of the substance abuse and mental health? I mean, it's a behavioral health care crisis. Is Hollywood awake to the behavioral health care crisis? Do they acknowledge that? Is there a therapist on set? I've never seen, I've never seen actually therapists on set. People are more aware now, I think just generally in the workforce. you have intimacy coordinators for sex scenes now they should have mental health 100%

yeah or just let it be known that that's available right if you're having a tough day any organization should maybe they do and I'm just not thinking I mean I've definitely been on sets where I can think of yeah people reaching out to producers and people being very responsive and knowing that we live in an age where we need to take care of each other. I'm trying to decide where to go here. All right. Because I want to get into, so we've talked a little bit about the book.

You don't just get to writing a book. We've talked a little bit about how you do speaking. When did you decide you have this moment on set with Kevin Bacon? You read Deepak Chopra's book. When do you decide that you're going to really lean into the inner. work and after that that was sort of the beginning for me and then that led to uh i remember listening to podcasts listening to tim ferris he was doing the five-minute journal and i'm like oh i've been doing that for 10 years love the fight so doing gratitude then i started doing

meditation first guided not then TM and and then realizing little by little that it's a daily, it's a daily thing that I have to do. And I'm not perfect. And sometimes I slip up, you know, and then I'm like, all of a sudden, the hamster wheel, it feels like I'm living in the hamster wheel inside of my head. And I'm like, oh, shit. Is there anything you can say that can quantify, like, is there words that can quantify your experience?

Because I sit with you and I, you are a happy person. You seem very secure and authentic and just happy, right, in your life. and I'm sure that's not all the time, but here we are. And I know it's because of all the things you just talked about, right? It's the prayer, it's a meditation, it's the gratitude. Those words, just like heroin is scary to some people, those words are scary. Yes. So can you put into words what those tools have done for you?

Are you able to quantify that? What comes to mind is game changer. and how I can, sometimes I slip, right, so I don't meditate for a few days. And like I said, all of a sudden my mind is racing and I can't be present. And I get judgy about other people, about myself. And so then I realize, oh, and I'm less, I find less joy. It's truly a game change. It changes your perspective.

It's like putting on sunglasses and you see the world differently. Sometimes I think my rituals are really important. So if those words are scary or the time commitment, like think about the things that you do every day, whether it's having a cup of coffee or sitting on the camp to take a poop in the morning. and like take time to read something that reconnects you to your heart to what helps you deal with life that reminds you of your value of what you've gone through just doing that

every morning or listen to a piece of music that you reconnects you or go for a run like you that's you run running is part of your mental health yeah it is I mean that helps me connect to my heart I think it's harder than ever I think the phone is terrible Yeah. Do you do anything? So do you try to disconnect the phone like an hour before you go to bed? I'm not so great at that. I mean, the one thing I just did do recently, which I've talked about, is I have a work phone and I put all my social media on my work phone. Yeah. So I can leave that somewhere and not have to think about it, which has been really, really helpful to me. Is your social media part of your work too, right?

At times. I mean, I use, yeah, I mean, I certainly use it to promote release. to promote this podcast and to promote sobriety and wellness and running and all the things that I care about, I also am just like the next person where I'm guilty of scrolling and comparing out and feeling why was I invited to that thing or whatever it is, you know? So it's a double-edged sword. Yeah, the social media. With kids, you have kids. I mean, like, like, it's terrifying.

I have an 18-year-old and 22-year-old. my 18-year-old is attached to his phone, which there's a thing, like there's a meme or something where it's like me calling my son and him not replying even though he does everything with his phone or something. But yeah, the phone addiction. For me, what works is waking up in the morning and telling this is a thing that I have. I have my coffee. I don't look at my phone. I look at my playbook that's on my phone, but I don't look at anything else for an hour. Like, so I have an hour a phone free phone time in the morning in the morning and at night too i don't turn it off who else i mean like there's yeah i mean i don't know i feel like that would be hard for me i feel like that would be

hard for me just because i feel the need to respond and get what could you do 30 minutes i could i could do five hours i'm not that i mean like i know i'm not that important right like i could do whatever it is i just have to well but start small Could you be like, okay, I'm going to do one week where I do 30 minutes without the phone and then see how different do I feel? Yeah. I already feel different with this whole social media thing off my phone. I really do.

I haven't felt this clear in years. I haven't because even if I catch myself, like I'll let myself kind of go down a little bit and then I'll stop and I'll put it to the side. I really will. It's been fascinating. But you mentioned the playbook, which I want to get into because I would feel like it would be doing a disservice if we didn't talk a little bit about how this all came to light. So you get interested in mental health.

You have your own mental health journey. Resiliency. I mean, you do some body positivity work. Like, you've done a lot of things. How did you get to selfish? And can you take us through this idea of a playbook? I mean, it works for me because I'm a sports guy. But how could people apply it to their everyday lives?

Yeah. So the hardest thing for me, the most challenging thing was remembering. what, all this stuff that I read in a book or in a podcast or even my own life lessons. And I realize that when I get triggered, I revert back to my old, unfamiliar, unhelpful thought patterns. And so, you know, like you have your bookshelf, let's say, with all the, your best books. Why can't you have a place on your book, on your phone, with all your best strategies for life. So yeah, just like a coach has a playbook. He doesn't rely on his memory to figure out what the best play is in the fourth quarter when it's fourth and one. He looks at his play sheet

constantly. So you can have on your phone your own strategies, your own greatest achievements, your self-talk, people who inspire you, takeaways from therapy, from recovery, from books. And then so I created that. And then in the more, morning I hit play and I choose a soundtrack. So depending on my mood, I'll choose whatever song I want. And I watch it. It takes three minutes. What was the song this morning? Chopin. What is it? Chopin, the classical piano. Okay. Yeah. Sophisticated. No, it's kind of neutral. It's like for the morning. It's just like, but what's really cool is it's not one thing that helps us. It's

different things. And every day we wake up, we feel differently. So any single day, it's something different that's going to grab my attention. And I don't just watch it in the morning. I might watch it before a big meeting or in the middle of the day. You know, if I'm not feeling great, I might go and look at my playbook. And I have different playbooks. I have one for daily reminders. I have one for before I do a speaking engagement, before I go to play golf with all my golf. things and and I created it because it didn't exist so so you write it out and then it stores in the phone and it's your it you know Instagram stories that so you take a picture and you write words on it well that's basically your playbook you could have a let's say a picture I saw your

walls of your running medals uh you could have a picture of your medals and on it you would write where you're I can do hard things yeah for example um So those you could have all your proud moments could be part of your playbook, but then you could have just a picture of a book you're reading and highlight the sentence that you really want to remember. And that's going to reconnect you to the whole book. And how many playbooks do you have? Like do you personally, when you wake up, are you choosing from five? Is it 10? Is it 30? I don't know how many I have. Yeah, probably like eight or nine. I have one for create. It's like all the things that I sort of moments. I'm like. I created, but also art, artistic endeavors. And I have golf, acting, speaking, daily reminders. What did you watch this morning? Daily reminders. Yeah, it's kind of the neutral, yeah.

Okay. I love it. And so selfish, the book, is the kind of guide to creating your own typebook, right? Yeah, because during COVID, I partnered it with a mental health nonprofit called Givenhour, and they asked me to talk about this concept of the playbook. And everybody would ask, what goes in your playbook? Is it quotes? And I was like, no, it's a lot more than quotes.

And somebody contacted me and said, have you ever thought of writing a book? And I was like, no, what would the book be? And she said a workbook to guide people to create their own playbook. So it's eight exercises based in positive psychology that will help you create your own playbook. It's amazing. And you can get it anywhere. Books are sold. Yes.

Barnes and Noble, whatever it is. And then you've been working on an app, right, to kind of make this easier and more accessible on the phone. So the app is available for free. It's not perfect.

It's a work in progress, but you can download it on selfishplaybook.com. Selfishplaybook.com for the app. Okay, I want to, congratulations. I mean, it's an amazing, you have an amazing story. Thank you.

You really do. I want to just close. by bringing it back to your brother because I feel like a lot of people who watch and listen to this podcast are grabbing at any last bit of hope that they can. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people

that tune in have lost people close to them. There's a lot of grief. And could you just maybe share how you choose all these years later? I mean, you described him as your hero to honor your brother. brother's life and legacy and how you think about that and give us some insight. Obviously, it's not. So about 20 years ago, I had a therapist have me do an exercise that he called

the impossible future, which is actually in the book. And in it, he said, describe your impossible future. It's a future where there's no obstacles. You can do whatever you want. And so I did that and he said once you do that in writing ask yourself why am i here and um what is my purpose and i did this whole thing and part of it was i will do something for my brother one day and i thought at the time it was going to be a center for recovery with animals sort of i don't know why i thought that but when this came in when i had the opportunity to write this book and then create the app it's you know I thought there it is that's the thing I'm doing for my brother and just talking about him is how I keep him alive but I also think I've

learned so much from other people sharing their stories when we hide when we don't share our stories it poisons us it kills us so any chance I get to talk about him I do. That's beautiful. Yeah, I always share because people will say I don't, I don't have a following. And this is actually how I heard from Gary V. It's like if you, if you have 250 followers on Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever it is, and you close your eyes and you picture yourself talking to 250 people, that's a, that's a huge speaking engagement. Yeah. So our stories do matter. Yeah. There's always someone listening. So I love that, I love that sentiment. And I would love for you to come out and speak to some of our women, like the patients, you know, and share

your story at some point because I feel like they would, so many of our patients at release and so many of our clients that they struggle with the idea that it's too late, right? It's too late to turn it around. And they're 26, 28, just like you were, you know, kind of finding their way in the world. I think it could be really valuable. And I don't know, I've toyed with the idea of getting a dog or something for the houses. so maybe we'll do that in your brother's honor, you know, like the animals do play a nice role.

It would be amazing. Yeah, so. Yeah, I'd love to do that. I'm glad this worked out. Stephanie shows that. Look her up. She's coming. What's the movie coming out?

Soul on Fire, October 10th, in theaters. We're going to the theater for the next one. Obviously, a lot of people know the devil's wear. That's like a classic, right? Ironic, I would say. But there's number two coming out. I'm not in it. Oh, are you upset?

No, but I mean, it would have been fun to make just a little appearance. Yeah, we'll let it go. I'm iconic, yeah, okay. Look, I'm not a TV guy. I'm not a movie guy, so, you know, it sounds. I feel like I've been forced to watch it a few times, so I've probably seen you. I play Jacqueline Foley. It was a tiny role, but somehow it made an impression because it was Merrill Streep's nemesis, which was fun.

First studio film opposite Merrill Street. Let's go. Thank you, Zach. thank you for coming in and we're going to go have a putting contest do we have time yes okay quick putting contest yes we have to yes William and Mary the tribe are they sure they are they are they are they all right that's a whole other yeah yeah come on like Virginia wait do you know like did you're from jersey yellow and green yeah of course I know I'm like big sports guy I don't know but I can't wait to take the tribe down right now I'm gonna sink it all right that's all

Ben talks shit. Yeah, I talk shit.