The Zac Clark Show - Hunter Montgomery: From Injury to Heroin Addiction, Reality TV & Nearly 20 Years Sober

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Hunter Montgomery has been sober for nearly 20 years – but his story didn't begin with heroin. It began with a football injury, a prescription for painkillers, and the belief that he'd finally found something that made him feel comfortable in his own skin. In this honest conversation, Hunter joins Zac Clark to unpack the hidden beginning of addiction, why so many people suffer in silence, and what finally broke the cycle. They explore the misconceptions surrounding recovery, the danger of trying to "do it your own way," the role of surrender, faith, service, and why long-term recovery isn't about simply avoiding drugs or alcohol – it's about building a life worth staying sober for. Hunter also opens up about surviving an overdose, navigating relapse, living with Tourette syndrome in the public eye, finding recovery at a young age, co-parenting after divorce, becoming a father again, and why he now uses his platform and career to help others ask for help before it's too late. Whether you're in recovery, love someone who is, or simply want to better understand how addiction really takes hold, this is a conversation about hope, identity, and the possibility of lasting change. If this episode resonates with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it.  Follow Hunger Montgomery: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hmontgomery/ Connect with Zac: https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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with zero extra costs. Go to the Games tab and play FIFA World Cup launch edition now, only on Netflix. I went to my drug dealer's house and I was like, I got a pad. He's like, don't do it. You can't do this. He's like, you're going to get pop. You're going to go to prison.

I am excited to welcome today's guest, Hunter Montgomery. We both were contestants on the Bachelor rep. But more importantly, we are both men in long-term recovery. Newcomers in the program and stuff, they hear you're 20-year-sober and it's like you just live a perfect life. But like, I still deal with a tremendous amount of heart. This conversation spans a lot of awesome topics, the risk of painkillers leading to addiction. I can remember like having nights where I wanted to quit so bad. I got to the point where I wanted to die.

And the only reason I didn't is because I wouldn't be able to get high again. That's a crazy feeling. This episode, the heart of it, is long-term recovery in real life. It is not perfect. I am here to tell you that. Hunter's here to tell you that. I get a call for my dad. He said, well, I have a call for my dad. Well, if I were you, I'd get into a rehab tonight because you're probably going to get picked up by law enforcement.

All right. So today's guest, dude, we've been trying to get this one going for a while. We are in a small growing fraternity, I feel like, of men who have been on reality television shows and are sober and openly talk about our sobriety hunter Montgomery. How the hell are you? I'm good, man. It's good to see you. I mean, this is probably a year, at least in the making. Yeah, I think last time I came, we tried to do it. I think I saw you on the way to Barry's. We tried to get it set up, but it's hard.

I mean, both our schedules are crazy. Here I am. So Hunter was on after me, right? Right after you. You were there. You were actually, I think you were around when I was filming in New Mexico. And then you wrote me. Yeah.

So Hunter and I were both over. It was very loud and proud about our sobriety. And this reality television world brings together this gaggle of people. And a lot of them are sick and suffering. Yeah. And a lot of them probably are silently suffering is what I've found. That's the thing for me that's been frustrating is, and I don't know what has your experience. Are guys open to it when you start to talk about recovery?

Yeah. You know what? I always notice that there's always like one or two guys. Like at a party that'll kind of pull me aside and be like, hey, we should we should talk. And I find out like they're struggling. They think they need to go to treatment or need to get help. But they're just scared, you know. I see a lot in the professional world too.

You know, like I did a panel. I worked for KPMG. It's a big consulting firm. I did a panel. And afterward, I was getting like all kinds of teams messages in our, you know, company chat saying like, hey, can we talk? like I need help. So it's, you see it.

I mean, people are just scared to ask. 19, 19? 19 years. Yeah, it'll be 20 in March. Yeah. Congrats, man. It's wild. Yeah.

20 years. And I was a nut. I got sober young. You're kind of like Maddie. How are you? I'm 40. So I've never legally drank. Yeah.

There's an AA meeting in New York City called Never had a legal drink. Which is wild. But I was 20, right? I mean, it was a little different. 20's old and up. But yeah, I got sober pretty young. Yeah. I want to hit something on the head because we were talking a little bit about it before we started rolling.

So you have Tourette's, right? So that creates these ticks and these things. And there was this moment, I was so fucking proud of you, dude. Like I saw some, and I didn't know you at the time, but someone was going. Like, you're openly in recovery on the show and what happened? You basically like someone called you out for not being sober. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of, you see comments, right?

We try to stay off the comments and read it, but I was reading it. And there were a lot of people that were like, this guy's not sober. He's, you can tell like he's blinking, he's snorting. Why is he, he keeps snorting like he just did a line and stuff like that. And at first I tried to let it go, right? Because you won't always not pay attention to that. But I finally had to just say, hey, like, I'm not snorting because I did a bunch of cocaine in the bathroom. It's, I have Tourette.

So you'll see, I mean, even today. have like a few things that I do. And I, I, you know, it's annoying, but I've just kind of learned to try to live with it and try to watch out for it in certain settings. I feel bad for like my wife and the people around me because sometimes my wife, like, hey, you got it's getting, you're starting a lot, you know, so I have to try to pay attention to it. But I'll be honest, the show kind of really shined a light on it.

Because you know how it is. Like you see yourself on camera. And like they're filming us nonstop. So you're making faces and you're doing stuff that you normally don't pay attention to, right? And so that really, I don't know. I was really insecure about it. But I also was like, I'm going to address this. And I had like hundreds of messages from parents of neurodivergent kids.

I had neurodivergent people. Can you break down what neurodivergent means just because I feel like that's been something that's been in mainstream? Yeah. Yeah. So if you, if you. If you think about any sort of syndrome or like Tourette's ADHD is even technically a part of it, any sort of mental disorder, you can be considered neurodivergent. And so that's something that like I had never talked about a lot. I grew up with the tick.

And I had a lot of parents that were just like, we watched this show and like you coming out and talking about this. my son has Tourette's and he's like hates himself for it and like when he saw you, it gave him so much hope and like, that's cool. You know, like that's, I never, when I got called to go on the show, like I never thought, oh, this is something that can help other people, you know, and it actually did. And then the recovery part came out, which I hate that like the producers, they cut out all the recovery stuff. Me and Katie had so much recovery talk.

She got me a cake for my 15th sobriety party or whatever. She threw me a little date. They cut all of it. And you know how that is. Yeah. But I still was able to tell my story in the middle of airing. And it got to a lot of people. It got to me.

I mean, that's how I found out about you, obviously. And we've remaining in touch. And it's just, you know, it's comforting having someone like you in my life because even just the likes and the comments, like we talk about that, but it's meaningful. You know, having people support you and the message because there's times when I feel like giving up and I'm sure you felt this like, is anyone really listening? Does anyone really care? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and I try to tell people like all the time, like, hey, what you're doing

matters. Like what you're doing, it matters. You know that, but like I think sometimes we need to hear that, you know? So on the Tourette's thing, two things come to mind. One, permission to be you, man. Like, I think it's a beautiful part of you, and I just want to hear that. And two, I'm just curious how that impacted your drinking. I think there's some alcoholism in the family, but like at a young age, do you know that you're starting to have some of these behaviors? So, no.

Like, I don't think that was, I think the thing about me is, like, I grew up, I grew up in West Texas. I grew up well, and not a well off. But we were fine. My dad was a dentist. My mom was a dental hygienist. We had money. We didn't struggle. There was no abuse. And it's interesting because when I grew up, I was going to these dare meetings. And my vision of a drug at it was someone, some gangster in like a new era cap that was, you know, had earrings and was selling drugs and was gang banging. I didn't ever think of myself to fit into that category. And so, like, for me, my biggest thing was just my insecurity. I was always overweight as a kid, so I was a fat kid. And the way I handled it was, I walked in a room, and if I could make fun of myself before anybody else, I was okay. Right.

And so the other side of that, though, was I was never comfortable in my own skin. You know, like, I was, I hated taking my shirt off in front of people at the point. You remember this at a young age. Oh, very much. Very much. And so I just, man, I remember the first time I took a Vicodin. It was from, I played football. So football in West Texas is like the end all be all like you Friday, Friday night

lights. You play out for you. I mean, you played. I did. Yeah. I played. And when you play football in West Texas, that's all you do, right? That's what you do.

Are you guys any good? We were good. We went to the state semifinals. We got, we ended up getting killed by a Dallas team, obviously. but for our for where we are a small town in west Texas we did really well um what position were you i was a defensive tackle i was like a little tasman oh you were carrying some weight yeah i was that was bigger um but it was crazy it was almost like a religion in that town because on friday's like businesses would close all the marquis would say go bobcats like yeah it was all for football and so

i put everything into that and i got i got injured and i got you know my story's a lot like Like yours, I got prescribed pain medicine. And I remember at ninth grade, I think, 10th grade. Earlier. And I remember taking that first Vicodin and just feeling like everything changed. Like, I felt confident. I felt funnier. I felt secure.

I felt safe. I was talkative. I can talk to anybody. Well, that's the part that people often confuse about addiction is that, like, for a while, it's medicine. It works. It works very well. It was my medicine. I mean, my way of self-medicating was this.

And I, you know, that was the first time. But, like, I remember going into my living room where my dad was and just sitting there and, like, I felt like there was like a balloon in my chest. Just like, I just was like, this is it. Like, what is? And I didn't. But I didn't know is this. medicine like I it was in an orange bottle and as a kid growing up an orange bottle meant medicine it meant it's good the doctor gave it to me it's safe it's okay and so four hours later I went and

took another one because that's what the bottle said right and you know I won't get into the the spiral of it all but I got to where it's like 25 years ago yeah it was like 2001 yeah like this was before the epidemic right this is but we're heading into it, yeah. For sure. And I remember like after that, my dad, you know, my dad's a dentist, he had like a bottle of liquid hydrocodone cough syrup, like the best stuff, but like the medical grade. Best. Not like the little bit. He had the clear pharmaceutical big daddy. Yeah, not caught with Cedomatheridepress. Just like. And I went in there and I remember saying like, I'm going to, it's the same thing, right? So I drank a little bit of it before going out with my

friends. And again, I was like, this is it, man. Like, this is this stuff, it's my, it makes me Superman. And so I quickly, real quick, I mean, I just, I'm having a flashback. So my buddies growing up at one point, their dad had gotten the bottle of it. And we were like juniors in high school. I mean, this stuff, it's liquid heroin. I mean, like, that's what you call. And yeah, there was a moment where I was like 15 beers deep and I like went into the fridge and got the bottle and like took the cap off and I dropped it. I mean, dude, like, you can't imagine, like, my friend. Because, like, we weren't, like, hooked, but, like, we were having a good time. No, but that's, that's a, yeah, that's a big mistake, big party foul. Sorry to interrupt. No, you're good, man, but I, I think, like, that was the

start of, like, my spiral, because then I was going to, like, parties, and I'd go to, immediately go to the master bathroom. I had it down to a science. I'd either go to the kitchen, I knew where the medicine cabinets were. So, I'd go to the master bathroom. I'd go look for any Xanax or painkillers, take them all. Sometimes I was good enough to swap them. I'd bring acetaminopin and I'd swap them so that at least the kid whose party it was wouldn't get in trouble. I would find girls on crutches and like I had a girl in my calculus class on crutches. I'd be like, hey, are you going to take all your pain medicine? And she's like, what? And I'm like, you got like little white pills. Are you going to take all 40 of them? And she's like, no, I don't

take. They make my stomach hurt. And I'm like, bring them tomorrow. And this girl's like, okay. And I do that. I mean, and I started to understand it was wrong, obviously, right? I knew right from wrong, but like I'm a straight-day student, you know, captain the football team type guy going to the university. I had trajectory to get to the University of Texas. But by the time I got there, I was, I was done, man. I was taking You went to UT. I went to UT. By the time I got to UT, I was probably taking 10 at a time.

And when I got to UT, it was like a whole new world, right? Because you're on your own. You have so many. I was in a fraternity, right? So, but I think the problem with opiates is that, like, it stopped working. I was taking too much Tylenol. I was taking too much. So I got into Oxy.

And when you get into that Oxy world, you're done, man. Yeah, there's classes of pills, which I want the listeners to understand. It's like, you know, when you go to get your tooth pull and you get a percocet five milligram, that's basically like five milligrams of percocet with whatever, 200 milligrams or 150 milligrams of ibuprofen or acetameter, or whatever it is. And then you kind of graduate to what I called Roxaset, which was like the 30 milligrams of just straight hydroc.

And that was once I found that. sure you had a similar. Yeah. No reason to get into details of all the of all what I did, but you know how it is. Like I got to the point where I had to have it. It was the only thing that mattered, right? Can you expand on that though? Because I think that's important for yeah. Yeah. So I would, what has had to have it mean? I would, I would, if I went to bed at night and I didn't have medicine lined up for right when I woke up, I knew I was going to be sick. So literally we talked about the medicine factor. I was going to be sick.

So I was going to be throwing up. I was going to be shaking. I was going to be sweating. It's hard to describe. It's almost like flu symptoms, but you're also just so restless. And so I actually wouldn't go to bed until I had my morning fix because I didn't want to be sick. A lot of people will wake up and they have to go find their fix, but I didn't want to do that sick. So it's a real thing.

I think what a lot of people don't understand, like when they say, oh, that look at that crackhead or, oh, it's a heroin addict. Like, I can't believe they steal. Like, when you're in that state, it is literally like you're in a prison, you know, and it's not just a mental prison. It's also a physical prison. So, yeah, like I got to that point. And so class, you know, going to class was not a thing. Being with friends was not a thing. It turned into just finding my fix, man.

And eventually caught up with me. My friends all knew. I was dealing out of the fraternity house. So I was dealing weed. And I would go from Austin to Houston to pick up thousands of pills. I'd take orders from all the fraternity people. I'd go buy them, come back. And I had a business going.

You and the man. And that's the thing. Addicts are very talented. it. Well, that's what I'm sitting here. Like the, the polarizing nature of you, Hunter, sitting across from me is interesting because you're telling me about a kid in high school who was, you know, overweight, playing high school, straight-a student who's got Tourette's and an addiction. You know, it's like, how are you managing all? Like, are you, in a lot of ways, sometimes I feel like the addict tries to over-attrieve and overcompensate for their down, like by getting good grit. Can you take me into your mind, like, during the addict. those years of... Yeah, I mean, I think it was that. And then I also had like, my relationship with my dad was amazing. Like, I love my dad.

But he was very, like, big into my sports. And so, like, achievement for my mom, it was grades. For my dad, it was sports. And I, whether or not it's true, I built this basis in my head that if I didn't get good grades, my mom was going to be let down. And if I didn't hit a hit a base hit or score a goal or make a tackle, my dad was not going to love me. And so like, that's another thing to add to the pile, right? Is it like I had, I felt the need to like please everybody.

And that built into like, that manifested into like some of the stuff that I deal with today, people pleasing. And it hurts me because I get defensive, right? if I am doing something in the kitchen and my wife's like, hey, can we make sure and put those like on this side? Because if we put them on that side, it stains it. And I'll be like, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to stain it. Like, I'm just trying to help. And she's like, hey, I'm just, I'm just telling you to put it on the other side. But I have this like never ending need to make sure I'm not in trouble. And I think with the drugs, can you, can you, the never ending need to make sure you're not in trouble because I identify with that. And it's like this contract I have

with the world where since I've gotten sober, I hurt so many people. There were so much pain and trauma that I just don't want to be the cause or the root of that anymore. You don't want to be the guy that's doing the wrong thing. And then you get sober and you realize you're still going to fuck up. Absolutely. I mean, it's actually crazy because like people think that like they, especially like newcomers in the program and stuff, they hear you're 20 year sober and they think it's, this mecca and it's like you just live a perfect life. And don't get me wrong, like being 20 you're sober, especially from a recovery standpoint is great. But like I still deal with a tremendous amount of hardships. I mean, I'm very blessed. I have an amazing life. But like, I still yell at

people in traffic. And I have to like catch myself and really be like, what are you doing? Like, what, what are you doing? Just to set the stage for the listener, like I walk in this studio, your beautiful wife pregnant is here, right? Like you guys are in New York City. This handsome guy is sitting at this microphone ready to be interviewed. He's 20 years sober, but a lot had to happen to get to this moment. Absolutely. And like I think the difference is today, like being where I'm at in recovery, I can notice those things really quickly and address them. Which ones? Things like selfishness, dishonesty, laziness. I can I can, I can detect, hey, you're being an asshole. There's no reason to be an asshole. Apologize and don't be an

asshole. And I don't always get it right. But like, I think in my addiction and when I'm not practicing some sort of program, I will be the asshole and I'll keep being the asshole and I'll say, you know, do you know who I think I am? That's my saying, right? It's not do you know who I am? It's do you know who I think I am, right? Because that's how we act sometimes. That's a good one. I might steal that. How'd you get sober? You know what? I had a Rhonda Jackson in my life.

Rhonda Jackson is a bank teller that saved my, let's hear it. I want this one. It's no way it beats Rhonda, but it wouldn't. Never, never, never. And I can't mention his name. I don't know what the statute is here, but there's some legal stuff. So I went to rehab. My parents came and got me.

Your siblings? I have a sister, right? And I was with my sister. weekend at Texas OU weekend. So Texas OU weekend when you're at Austin. Red River. Red River rivalry. You drive to Dallas with the fraternity and you have a date and you get coolers. Your date makes a cooler full of liquor, literally, which is great for normal people. No girl ever made me a cooler of liquor, but. I'm not hating on that, right? But for me, probably not the best thing. Anyway, we go up there. My sister's there and my friends. I blacked out.

I took a bunch of pills, everything. I'd come to find out my friends kind of had an intervention with my sister. And they're like, hey, Hunter's going to kill himself. Like, he's taking like 20 pills at a time. He's bad. He's gotten into oxies. We think he's probably doing heroin. And so the next morning I wake up and I think everything's good.

I'm like, you all ready to go to the game? And my sister was like, you're not going to the game. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, we're going back to Austin. and your mom and dad are driving there now. And so I had that like a quick mini intervention and I was in rehab the next day. Wow. Right.

And I think for me like I was okay with that. I was I was pissed, right? Like anytime there's intervention, you have some resentment. But I was so tired. And I can remember like having nights where I wanted to quit so bad. And I had always said like tomorrow I'm doing this. I'm going to stop doing this. I'm going to get my life back in order.

And I'd wake up and do it all over again. And I got to the point where I wanted to die. Like, I actually wanted to kill myself. And the only reason I didn't is because if I kill myself, I wouldn't be able to get high again. And that's a crazy feeling. Your sister, thank God for her and your family. Absolutely.

Now, but that's not. What can you say for the family? But for that moment, what can you say for the family? like the sister who's listening. My sister and my mom absolutely saved my life. Yeah. Multiple, multiple times.

Multiple times. And they know that and I'll tell them that until I'm gone. Like my mom, bless her heart, she fought. She got me, you know, like medical leave from the university twice.

I went to rehab. I ended up going twice. She got me like, I was, failing everything. But because I went to rehab, that semester got cleared. It's only supposed to happen once, but when I went back, eventually, she did the same thing. And she somehow, she drove to Austin. She was my warrior. She did all the research. You know, she was the mom that now I get calls from saying, my son is addicted to this medicine and he's going to kill himself. What do I do?

You know, it's this mom that has no idea what her resources are and how to get help. So she had to call people like you or like me and say, what do I do? And it's funny because now I get those calls. It's the best call, man. It is. And it's like it's a chance to give back, right? It's a chance to say, oh, my gosh, this lady is my mom. Also to educate.

Yeah, for sure. And also, my mom was then brought into Ellen. on and taught, hey, you're going to love your kid to death. And so she eventually cut me. And then we'll get to that. But yeah, so I went to rehab. I kind of just wanted the fire off my ass, really. I didn't understand the disease.

I had reservations. It's funny, when I was cleaning, they were cleaning my fraternity room out to go to rehab. And my dad picked up like my roar bong and was like going to throw it away. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, careful with that, pop. It's really expensive. like, I'm going to need that. And my mom was like, well, do you not understand what's happening? Like, you're done.

Well, it's those reservations that, like, we hold on to. I mean, like, I thought, I'm going to drink at my wedding. You know, the big book says, you know, the great obsession of every alcoholic, right? Is it drink like a normal man? Drink like a normal drink. Yeah, it's crazy. The first time I didn't go at it with the desperation of a drowning man. And yet I was drowning, right?

And so I got in there. Eventually, I went to a halfway house in Austin. I convinced my mom, I don't need to stay in Curvill. I'll go to a halfway house, but it has to be in Austin. And within weeks, I was back to it. And it's funny because when I relapsed, man, I went into treatment. I was taking about 80 Viking in a day, literally, or like 480s or whatever. I was taking a lot of medicine.

when I got, when I relapsed, I remember taking like three or four pills and I was zooted. I was just done. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can easily afford this. This is not like it used to be. I only have to take four pills. This is like back in high school. And of course, that lasted two weeks. Right.

So my, my, you know. I think the thing that I want to double tap on there is, and maybe you can speak to this. Hunter is this this line we walk between like a spiritual experience and getting high because so many people talk about that moment, you know, you're out for three weeks. You're just like, I'm going to go get high. Yeah. This life's not for me. And people do that 10, 20, 30 times. Absolutely. And if you don't, here's the thing. Like, for me, it was AA. And I don't, I don't, you know, it doesn't have to be AA. It can be anything for anyone. But for me, it was AA. And if you don't, and if you don't, don't do it with the same aggression that you did your addiction. If you don't have the same

passion for getting sober that you did for getting high, you won't get sober. And so you're not, if you're not following those steps in my case, for me, like the steps were kind of like, I wanted to do them my way. Of course, I'm the typical addict. And what I didn't understand is the steps are like a cake box. Like if I take a cake box, and it says do this, do this, do this. And I say, well, two eggs. Two eggs is a lot. I'm going to do one egg because I don't really love eggs.

Or baking powder, I'm only going to do a little bit of baking powder. What's going to happen is you're going to get through it and you're going to have a finished product that is not what you were supposed to have. It's going to be flat. It's going to be mushy. It's not going to taste like cake. It's going to taste like shit. And so when you go about your recovery in that manner and you say, yeah, I don't really need to apologize to those people or that resentment is justified.

I'm not going to forgive that guy. He wronged me or I'm going to lie about just this one thing. It's something I need to keep close. Whatever it is, like if you're going about this program and you're doing it selfishly, you're not going to get, you're not going to get sober. You're getting a mushy, bad tasting. Yeah, I mean, look, I've had a lot of guests on this show and I've had a lot of people that I've met over the years and there's a language that we speak.

that's very clear. And I know when someone's done the work and when they happen. Like I knew just from DMing with you that you're someone who takes this thing very seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't that first time, right? So I go back out. I get way worse. Start getting into heroin, stuff like that. It gets worse than it's ever been. What was the heroin like in Texas? I don't have anything to compare it to. Were you getting like the black tar? I was getting like balloons, little balloons. I wasn't shooting it.

So it's funny. We do these things. Like we make these, we have these like little deals with ourselves. I had never shot heroin. So I was fine. I remember watching Intervention with my buddies and being like, God, this guy is fucked. And my buddies are like, that's you, dude. Well, the thing that I laugh about that's always funny to me in our health care system is,

you go to any hospital in the world right now, they are basically legally injecting heroin into dozens and dozens of patients. I'm not allotted. It's the same shit. They're tying them off. They're putting a needle in them. They're pumping the thing. That is what shooting up a drug is.

And I feel like there's a stigma even around that. It's like, hey, guys, it's not that dramatic. Like you go into a lab and you get blood taken. It's the same shit. You're just injecting drugs. Yeah. So I mean, so I got really bad. Long story, it's as short as I can make it.

I remember one night getting in a fight and I got. And then you back in school taking classes? Back in school. So you're at UT. So I'm back at UT. It's like 2002, 203. Yeah, it was 2007 because I got in a fight. A guy headbutted me knocked my, I was on Xanax so I don't remember.

But I woke up the next morning and my shirt is dried in blood to my chest. chest and my chin is dried to my chest with blood. I go in the bathroom and my front tooth is just dangling. I didn't know what happened. I called my buddy. Apparently I got in a big fight. Call my dad, who my parents thought I was completely sober. Call my dad and told him he was like, well, you can't come all the way here. You got to get that fixed. Let me call some people because he's a dentist. He called this sweet mate from college. I go there to get him. I go there to it fixed and while I'm there, I watch him prescribe me Tylenol out of the pad and he signed it, but he didn't stamp it. And I remember watching this because I was a studied thief and addict.

And I, he hands me the Tylenol script and it's stamped, pre-stamped. And so he goes in the other room to do one other thing. And I'm sitting there looking at the desk and I'm looking at the drawer and I'm looking at the desk and I get the pad stuff at my pants. He walks in right after. I don't get caught. I walk out and I went to my drug dealer's house who I know very well today. He's sober now. And I was like, I got a pad. And he was like, Hunter, don't. He's like, don't do it. You can't do this. He's like, you're going to get pop. You're going to go to prison. You're not smarter than the system. You can't do this. And I had a face. ID that I got made in the fraternity and I just sat there and started practicing this guy's

signature until I was an expert at it went all over the town for the next month filling scripts to random people left and right to this ID this fake guy and I had run out of pharmacies at one point and I went to a Kroger I think or Randalls and the guy when I hand in the script he was He said, I had started smart, right? I started at like 10 pills. Then I moved to 20. Then I moved to 30. And I got up to like 60, which I'm an idiot, you know.

And the guy immediately was like, doctor, and I'm not going to say his name, Dr. XYZ prescribed you 60, 10 milligram hydrocodone. And I was like, yeah, whatever he, whatever it says. And he was like, okay, hold on. He goes in the back. He like gets on the computer. He gets this book out. He gets on the phone.

He comes back and he's like, so I have bad news. And my stomach drop. I was like, I'm done. And he said, we only have the ones with 325 milligrams of Tylenol. And I said, oh, that's fine. That's great. And he said, okay, well, I'm just going to have to call him and make sure that's okay. And I said, okay.

And he turned around and immediately I dart out of there. Right. And I'm wearing a hat. I'm wearing like a hoodie because I always just disguise myself. This guy, this doctor knows your dad. He knows my dad. I go home, nothing happens. Nothing happens for weeks.

But I know I can't do that anymore. So I didn't fill any more scripts. I get a call for my dad. And my dad essentially said, he called. I could tell he'd been crying, which he doesn't cry. And he said, I just don't know what to do with you. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, is there something you need to tell me about?

And I was like, no. And he said, well, if I were you, I'd get into a rehab tonight because you're probably going to get picked up by law enforcement. And if they pick you up from there, it'll look a lot better in court. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he wouldn't tell me what he was talking about. My mom wouldn't talk to me. She had cut me off. But they did pay for my rehab.

I had a buddy that called me, same buddy that had the intervention. He said, hey, your mom paid Starlight. And you have a spot there. And I knew I had to go. I thought I was going to prison. So first thing I do is I go to my dealer, naturally. I get a bunch of stuff, take it with me, get in the car. I took 32 hydrocodone, smuggle them in.

Because if, you know, typical addict, I was like, if I'm going to go out, I'm going to do it my way. And I'm going to wean myself off. This was before Suboxin, and I knew, like, if they're going to take me off this stuff, I'm going to do it my way. Even that I was going to do my way. Go in there and I take all. I was like, you know what? I better not do this. I'm going to take all of these and just be done with it.

And I took all 32, overdosed, ambulance came and got me. And so the next morning, I really had a choice. The next morning I woke up, and that was the March 23rd of 07, and I said, you're either going to go back to Austin and just live couch to couch until you die, which will be soon, or you can try to really do this. And I remember packing my bags, and I got to the door, and then something just grabbed me. And like, I don't know if it was my competitiveness. I don't know if it was God.

know it was God, but it was through God this thing that said, you know, like, you can't, you can't do this. You can't win. And I remember just throwing my bag down and getting down and praying and like screaming at God and telling him like, if I do this, you got to meet me halfway. And like, I just threw in the town and I said, I'm doing this. I'm going to beat this. And when I go out and I do everything they tell me to do and I don't stay sober, I'm going to prove them all wrong and say, this program is shit. And I walked out of the hall, walked into a class. They were like, Hunter, you're, you can't go to class. And I said, I'm going to class. I didn't miss a single class. I didn't miss a single meeting. I stayed in Curville for the next nine months. I lived in a halfway

house with six men, eight men, grown men, you know, in a three-bedroom house. And I, I just put every single thing in that program that I could and I come to find out, you know, the doctor had, the police had come to him. There were 13 felony prescription counts. Came to him, asked him who I was because I had a fake ID. There was no person named who that person was. And he told him you didn't know who was. He called my dad. He said, I'm not doing this for your son.

I'm doing this for you. and that guy was my my ronda you know and it's crazy because i called him i made i got sober i did all the things but i called him 10 years later took me 10 years to make amends of this guy because i was terrified and i'm walking my daughter who's one-year-old with my then-wife in my beautiful neighborhood and i was like i'm going to call him and i called him and i called him and i called him and I said, hey, this is Hunter Montgomery. I don't know if you remember me. He stopped me.

He said, I remember you. And I said, hey, I just wanted to let you know. I just celebrated 10 years of sobriety. And I have an amazing job. I got a wife and kids. I've sponsored numerous people. I go speak all over at rehabs all over the state. And I just wanted to let you know and thank you.

And it was just a dead pause. And I was like, oh, shit. and he said, you know, I ask God all the time if I made the right decision. And now I know, take care, hung up. Hung up, never said another word. And I suspect it's because there's, you know, he could lose his license. But it's wild because I did the math. I probably would have just gotten out on a parole, you know.

You talked about that. warm hug that we get from heroin and the only hug that I found to be comparable is that hug we get from God. It's incredible. Those God moments where you look and you feel something and you think like, wow. Like a lot of people struggle with higher powers in this program and I get it. A lot of people are agnostic. A lot of people are atheists. I've worked with so many atheists. And when they asked me how I overcame that, I mean, I always grew up. I grew up in a Christian family. So I believed in God. But for me, I was left with no choice but to believe in a higher power. Because there is nothing human in this world that could have saved me the way that the way that God did.

You talked a lot about Hunter, this idea that you were going to do it your way. And I think that a lot of people that I've met over the years, that's what kills them. Yeah. Right? This idea that I'm going to do it my way. I'm going to line up. I'm going to treat this thing like a buffet and I'm only going to take the things that I want. And that's how we live as addicts, right? We don't like discomfort. So it's that word surrender. What does that word mean to you? Because that's what I'm hearing in your story. Like you ultimately, in order to have this moment with this doc who calls you or you talk to 10 years after getting, I mean, the fact that it took 10 years to call the guy, you know, like there was some will and all that.

There really was, and some ego and all that. For sure. And we'll fear. I think a lot of those fear, you know, because I made, I made a lot of hard amends that were very shameful and hard to do. But I think for me, like the surrender thing is just really understanding that like my way does not work as much as I want to control things. Like I've been obsessed with control my entire life.

I try to control how people hurt me. I try to control how people see me, perceive me. I try to manipulate people even today. Like, and not in a bad way, but I just, you know, it happens even today. And I have to watch out for that because, like, I'm not in control. When I'm in control, it doesn't go well. Yeah, I mean, look, I know a little bit about your story. You're coming up in 20 years.

I mean, there's a lot there, right? There's a divorce in there. A lot. Co-parenting. There's... Well, you know, it's funny because when I walked out after I had OD'd, I'll never forget it. A buddy of mine who's now a friend. This guy walks up to me, his name is James Robinson.

And he walks up and they're doing... This is your buddy. Now my buddy. I didn't know him then. He was just at Starlight. A black guy with a jersey on, just the coolest guy ever. he walks up to me, he goes, what's your name? And I was like, Hunter, and I was annoyed, you know, I was being a little bitch.

And he said, Hunter, he said, how old are you? And I said, 20. And he just started, like, chuckling and looking around. I was like, what? And he said, you got a whole lot of living left to do. And I never forget that. And I tell people it all the time, because think about if I would have died in that room. I had two beautiful kids.

I had a marriage. I have a newborn on the way. I have an incredible career. I went on reality TV and got to act like a jackass on TV. I have had, I've got to go to... There you go, going back to that kid, Hunter, making fun of yourself walking in the room, but I'm not going to tolerate that shit here.

I've gotten to go to Thailand and Europe and meet all these cultures of people and see the world, and all of that would have been completely nothing. It would have never happened if I would have died that night. And so when he told me that, it's so real. And I try to tell people that call me that are struggling and that I'm talking to, like, you have so much living left. It doesn't matter if you're 20 or you're 16 or you're 40 or you're 70. We all have a lot more living left to do. I try to remember that. Are you still active today in your program? I am. You know, I don't go to meetings as much. Is that like as much once a month, once a year?

It's usually once a month. Earlier in the year, I was going once or twice a week because I really made a concerted effort. I go to therapy. And this is important for me because I feel like there's a lot of people that come on this show that are early in recovery or refocused so much. about those early days, which you and I both know it takes a substantial effort. I was going to like two meetings a day when I first got sober. I think for me, like I really do try to go to meetings because no matter what, I think they're always effective. No matter what I think they're important, no matter how long in the spectrum.

And keep in mind, I say that with an asterisk of NAA. There's a lot of people that aren't in AA, and I'm okay with that. Like I don't look at when I first got sober, I was a big book thumper. I was, if you don't do this, you're going to die. If you're not in this program, you're going to die. I'm a little more lax on that today because it's not, I don't see, I don't see this as a linear and we have a lot. We need more soldiers.

We need more people. And I think we're scaring some of those people off by boxing them into this thing that worked for us. So like for me, however you can. be a better person and not not have to live the way you're living i want you to do that you know um it used to be a lot more boxed in but having said that for me i still love aa but i think more of my service work comes from i mean i texted you last month and said hey like we got a guy that there's probably a window here he's he he just got a divorce he needs help what are some centers

and like that happens all the time right i have a mom calling me or a wife calling me or or a son calling me or just the person themselves. Like I have people from other that know me professionally that will call and say, hey, I got a guy that is a consultant in my firm and he needs help, but he's afraid to talk to anybody, but you're perfect for him. And so that for me is service work. You know, I get a lot out of helping people in that regard. But I do wish I was more involved in meetings, you know.

Yeah, I love, I mean, look, I have always said, I don't go to AA or do AA to not drink and not drug. Yeah, that's, that is not what it is. And that's the confusing part for a lot of people. I go to AA, Hunter, like you said, to not have to wake up in fear. Yeah. And to have an understanding of how I'm going to manage relationships or be the best part. or whatever it is that I can be. For sure.

And I like, I go to, I go to therapy and I, my even my therapist has been like, hey, I think maybe you should try to go to a meeting this week. Are your parents both still around? Yeah. They are. They are. Yeah. My dad is declining in health.

But my mom's around. My sister's around. What's it like watching dad? It's hard, man. My dad drinks a lot. He's an alcoholic. Does he know? He knows.

He knows. And I think that like... Have you spoken openly about that or is that... I have. I mean, it was kind of an elephant in the room for a while, but like he can go for periods of time. He'll do this thing where he'll get, he'll stop drinking and he'll exercise and he'll do things. And then three or four months later, he goes back. And I don't know that he wants to be better, you know?

I mean, I think it is truly medication for him, which is so sad. And it's hard because I sometimes feel like a hypocrite because I tell all these people, like, you're going to love your family member to death if you keep doing this. And then yet I can't properly intervene on my dad. And it makes me feel like I'm not doing enough. But I also have to recognize it like I can't fix him. I can't help him without him wanting to help himself. And so it's hard.

but like he recognizes it. How old's your dad? He's in his 70s. Yeah. Our parents grew up in a different time, man. Maybe in his 60s. 60s, 70s. Yeah, 70.

Yeah, it's different. Right. And I feel bad for my mom because like my mom. And they're still together. Yeah. Yeah. My mom takes care of him. But like we just, you know, it's the way I look at it and I've kind of told him like

I feel like every time I see you, it could be the last time I see you and I hate that. But we make the best of it. We just got back. I went to Angela and we went fishing together. You and your dad. Yeah. Yeah, which is, you know. But that's the gift of recovery, man, that I think is lost in a lot of this stuff,

is that ability to just so many sons have dads out there that are probably struggling or their relationships are filled with past trauma or whatever it is. Your ability to sit your dad down and be like, hey, dude, like, I love you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want you to die. Yeah. I don't want you to die.

I wish that you would help yourself, but at the same time, I want to be here for you and I want to spend time with you and I love you regardless. You know, it's a little different than a college kid that's running the family's bank account down on heroin, right? It's a very different situation. I always say, though, the alcohol for me is almost the worst because it just delays, delays, delays. And it almost makes, it fools the addict into thinking that the problem isn't that bad. Well, yeah, and like I think one of the biggest misconceptions, and a lot of people have this is that people will go get treatment for meth or they'll go get treatment for opiates or whatever. And then they'll come out and they'll say, well, alcohol is never my problem. Just wait, brother.

I want people to know and understand. I think the biggest thing for me was the chemical allergy and really understanding what a chemical allergy is, right? Because I didn't understand I am allergic to this stuff. I have a tag. Like I literally wear a tag that says allergic to opiates because if I get in a wreck and I wake up and I'm on morphine, I'm not going to be happy. Like that's not going to be. I'm not saying it's a death sentence, but I'm not going to be happy with that. I don't want that because when you put that stuff in me, I react.

It's just like if, you know, if my wife's allergic to she. shellfish and we go out to dinner and they give her. Yeah, the peanut allergy. They give her something like, you know, she's going to swell up. Something's going to happen to her. If I eat it, I'm fine. But the same thing goes for wine. She drinks a glass of wine. She's going to go on about her life. If I drink a glass of wine, my body is going to say, you have to have more of this. Yeah. And it may not be heroin the next day, but it'll be, oh, it's been a week and I drank a glass of wine. I can have another glass. Yeah, I think. about that a lot today in the world. Just the access. It's crazy. I mean,

gambling, porn, drugs, alcohol, like, whatever it is. We are such a quick fix society. I mean, I'm on the Zins now. I can't shake it, dude. I told, I can't share. I told Daniela, I was like, if I were to ever put one of those in my mouth, game over. I'd be done. Dude, I'm double, I'm rocking the double decker. Like, I finish a 10 mile run and I'm like so excited to get back up to my apartment just so I can throw the double deck because it's like I'm searching for a feeling and it I struggle with that because people are like at once an addict always an addict I'm like it's kind of the truth man it is like I'm running 10 miles and I'm throwing the nicotine in because I want to feel that thing I'll get addicted to frozen yogurt yeah I mean like it's

I know I laugh this morning like I what's your coffee odor I'm trying to lay off the coffee I'm like up we're in a face absolutely dude because I was drinking like three Celsius a day and I'm like what are you doing. Yeah. The famous, like, addict alcoholic, like, I'm going to cut the caffeine now or do this for me. What is your dad's relationship, like, with your sobriety? Has he been to an anniversary meetings? Has he seen, like, is it or is that not? No, he's, he's very proud. He doesn't really get involved in it, but it's funny because, like, do you get a text on your anniversary? Is he aware of the date? Not from him, but he's not that kind of, I get one from my mom. and people in my life, but not from him.

It's just not, he's not big on that kind of stuff, but he, I can tell when he hugs me goodbye, that he's proud of me, you know? And I think, again, like, my childhood with him was all seemingly based on my success in sports. And today, he loves me unconditionally. None of that shit matters. Yeah, when I got sober, my, I was a baseball kid,

And my dad, like, I saw this thing on Instagram the other day, dude. It was like a bucket of balls. And there was this note written from like this dad that basically said, like, he left this bucket of balls in this batting cage. And the note was basically like, whoever finds this, like take good care of these balls. Like I threw these to my son. I threw them to his son. And like now I don't have like a purpose for him.

Like I'm getting goosebumps saying it. And like, like, dude, like I have a lot of compassion for folks like, my dad and your dad because what I've heard from my dad and I don't know if you've had this same experience is like, you know, your friends start to die, you start to lose your purpose, you know, like. Well, and like he's had a couple strokes and so like he can't fish and hunt and do all that stuff. And I feel bad. I do.

I feel bad. It's the same with my grandpa. Like my grandpa was my biggest inspiration in life growing up. and he's, you know, he's in his... He's still around. He's 90, yeah. Wow. What a gift.

He's just, it's just so different. And he even tells me today, like, son, go do things. Live your life, travel, have, soak up the time of the kids. There's wisdom and that. And that story from, what was it, James? What was a kid in the treatment? James Robinson. James.

You got a lot of life left to live. Yeah, absolutely. So beautiful. And you have lived. a lot of life. And dude, like, I'm rooting for your dad. I'm rooting for like, that's so cool, you know, that you guys still have that relationship regardless of how he's. Well, and it's translated into really positive things with me and my son because my son, he doesn't like sports. He's not a sports guy. He's 10. So you have a 10 and a 13 year old from your first marriage.

Right, and I have one on the way. One on the way. Let's go. But my son, like he's not, he's not, he don't like sports. And like it took me a while to really recognize just because he's not like I was, doesn't matter. And so anytime we play sports, he gets, he's very self-conscious. Like he'll miss, he'll won't catch the ball. He'll make a bad throw and I'll say, I'm sorry. And I tell him, son, I don't care how you throw the ball. If you catch the ball, I don't care if you score. I don't care if you win. I'm just happy to be out here with you. I overcorrect and make sure that he knows like it's not about how well you do.

It's about the time we spend together. Yeah. You know, and we have fun in other ways. You know, he likes to code on Roblox and he likes to write programs and stuff. And so I'll sit there and write programs with him. You know, we have our own things that we do now. Kids are awesome, man. I don't have kids, but I.

I just love my nieces and nephews in the way that, like, there's just such simple creatures. Like, what I've learned about kids in my experience is that really all they want is, like, a hog and to be seen. Yeah. Yeah. They want your presence. Yeah. Which I will say is another one of my huge things is, like, my ability to stay present.

I think because of the addict in me and, like, the planning and the thinking, I'm always somewhere else. else, unfortunately. And I got to really be careful about that, like with my wife, my kids, like whether it's a work email or social media or whatever it is. Yeah, it's like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I have to really remember like my time with my kids is just so valuable. Right. And if I'm spinning it with my face in a phone, it just ruins it. What is, uh, I want to know how, like what it was like getting through the divorce and sobriety and then kind of like, what life looks like today, man. Like I can't be proud of just the life you're living.

Yeah, man. The divorce was hard. Yeah, it was rough. I will say never, never in it, never in the middle of it was I thinking about going out or drinking. You know, that's what's crazy about like a good program is that that was never even a thought. of a solution. Whereas I could, I could sit here and say, like, if I think of the worst thing that could possibly ever happen to me, would I want to drink or what I think about drinking? I just don't think I would because I just know if I'm here, drinking is going to put me here.

It's not ever going to put me here. And so it was rough. We're, you know, we still co-parent. And I think we want the best for each other. We certainly want the best for the kids. But it's hard. I'm not going to lie. It got a lot harder when I met someone new, right? Because then there's like boundaries is something I've always had a rough time with. And it's because of the people pleasing, right? I don't ever want to let someone down. And so when I first got a divorce, I was still like, like I would go over there and fix the AC or whatever.

You know, little things here and there. And like when you meet someone new, like you kind of have to start. putting some boundaries in place. There's no, hey, I'm going by the ex-wife. Right. Right. It's like, what the fuck you're talking about? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. And so like I just, I had to put a lot of boundaries in place that weren't there. And I think that made things difficult. And I, I, it's hard because it's a slippery slope between like what's best for the kids versus what's, you know, what's, it's not about the kids, right? And so there are times. and I do things that kind of flirt with those boundaries

because I know it's for the kids, you know, well-being. So it was hard, but I was in a bad place. I mean, I was right at right as COVID happened. And then I remember like, God, I remember getting on TikTok. And that was like in the beginning of TikTok. And I just started talking to it. And people started affirming me. people started following me

I'd get on these lives and people would you know tell me things I wanted to hear Was that your first step into the my first thing? Yeah the TikTok yeah yeah so that was like

that was the my road into the whole like camera thing because I got a really big following really quickly on TikTok which at that time it was like 70,000 which is pretty big for that time

it's big now it's big any time there's a thousand people's a lot yeah yeah and I And I had, you know, the problem is that like, I have always dealt with insecurity and told you that. And so like when people were telling me like these good things and like affirming me, it fed my ego. I liked it. And it gave me that dopamine. So that was a really bad time in my life where I was solely basing my value off of what you told me.

Right. and I got a call from a producer, I got a DM from a producer. On TikTok. Well, no, it was on Instagram, but they had found me on TikTok and they said, hey, we think you'd be good for the show. And I thought it was a joke.

I was like, this isn't Warner Brothers, this is bullshit. And were you talking about your divorce and the relationship? No. No, I was talking about dating and dad jokes and just doing goofy stuff, you know. Lots of dating stuff. It's funny because you're so, like,

in this conversation, you're so serious, but like you're a goofy, like you have a goofy guy. I guess that's the thing recovery like gets me all like. Yeah, fired out. I get it. Like people tell me all. I mean, I'm so goofy. Dude, I have this thing where I don't, I don't laugh out.

Like, I will think something is funny. And in my head, I will say that was funny. But you won't laugh. And I like, and so my audience, the people in my life are just like, dude, Zach, what the fuck? Like, how do I get you to laugh? And there's part of it probably needs to like, I got to take it into therapy. and there's a part of it.

It's just like, kind of just who I am. You smile. Yeah, I smile a bit here and there. No, I just, you know, man,

it's like two guys sit down. We throw the mics on the middle of the table when we're talking about recovery. Like, this shit's fucking serious. It is. And I don't talk about as much now

just because, like, I used to get behind the podium and tell it all the time. And I'd pepper in jokes and funny stuff. Yeah, you got your recycled content. You know what hits. But yeah, I can be,

I'm much more goofy than this. Yeah. So you went on the show and that was cool, man. I mean, you had this cool experience. You got to go and take the recovery thing out loud and the Tourette's thing out loud and the family stuff out loud and date a little bit. And then you came off and you met your beautiful wife. How did that?

Yeah. So I came off the show. And in general, I mean, for me, positive experience for you, right? Yeah, it was. I mean, like I said, like I didn't love my edit, some of it. I wish there was a ton of stuff about it. about recovery that Katie and I did and talked about. But that's fine.

Like I met and you can attest to this. Like I met some of the best guys. Yeah. Some good dudes. And the edit thing, dude, I get, I get Twitter. I mean, and maybe I just, maybe I'm just stubborn with it. But I'm just like, you know, I know what I signed up for. Yeah.

Oh, no. Absolutely. I don't blame any of them, man. They're making a show. It's what they have to do. Like, and it wasn't, it wasn't anything crazy. No, dude. People love you.

But the whirlwind and you can, you can. Yours was way bigger, but like the whirlwind after the airing was just crazy. You know, like we'd go, me and my buddies would go places and there'd be people all around taking pictures. I was at one of Blake Hortzman's DJ shows in Austin, and my wife, my now wife and a bunch of her friends came backstage, and that's how I met her. Like she walked up to me. She actually brought me a topo.

and didn't even know I was sober, but she was like, hey, do you want this? And I was like, I was like, I'm in love. Yeah. Will you marry me? She sat down next to me and she literally took her shoes off. She was like, look, I don't know who y'all are. I don't, I haven't watched the season. That's not why I'm here.

My feet hurt. I just got back from a date. I don't want to be here. And she was almost telling me like, you, I don't care. You're not that cool. And I like was like, tell me more. You know, I was like, I love hearing that you don't. know who I am. But we started talking and we just hit it off, man. And then the next day we hung out

and the next day and the next day and the next day. So yeah, here we are five years later, married with a little baby girl on the way. It's just the blessings, man. And I got to give her a hug today. And that's the stuff in these conversations that I hope people hear, like that there's a light, Like you're worthy of this life, you know, like for all the self-hatred and self-doubt and stuff that you've been through. And the thing I'll say about the show, which I've been given a lot of thought to is you really, you really find out fast how people see you. You do. And like it gives the world permission to do a deep dive on you. And for both of us, like, there's not, there's no hit pieces.

No. No. And I mean, like, it's hard reading that. stuff. But for every bad comment or this guy looks like a gremlin or this guy's agro or whatever it was,

there were people that were like, I love this guy. It's so funny, so sweet. Like, I bet he's a good dad. Like, so for all the hate, there's so much love, you know? And this look at us right now, doing that like here five years later, you know, like well- up. Soon we're going to have, I mean,

look, we got, you've interviewed several people in the past few weeks from our world that are in recovery soon we're going to have a whole we're going to have a whole like you said a fraternity of people that are yeah and that's what i want people to just hear and know and it's what's so cool about our friendship and relationship and you know we talked a little bit about carl and i had this mattie reiss on and the thing i can tell you about my experience is all those people and i talked a little bit about this with mattie it's like when you meet someone who's sober and in the work and doing it

it and has been doing it, there's just a, there's just a, a thing there that is undeniable. Yeah. And I felt it with you. Like the second, I was like, this is going to be the easiest conversation of all time because we just, it's just, well, yeah, it's real. It's authentic. You speak the language. You know, when you've, when you've lived it, you just know it.

And it just locks up a little bit of the other conversations in my life because I'll go to these dinners or these things with people and like, they're talking about the dumbest shit. It is, it is hard. Like when you when you've when you felt like the solution part of it and like you're around people that are maybe less mature or that are struggling and you know they're struggling. I saw something that I said like you know like people in their 40s are dangerous because they're really just like teenagers with more money and zero and like less less fucks to give. And I'm like that is me dude.

Like it's like I'm a sensitive little kid. but like also can kind of do it out you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah absolutely um what's next you I mean like you you're like doing the corporate you're building the family like you're doing the thing right I mean that's yeah I mean I mean I have like a really still tick time you're at one point you were going to like launch back into it or you yeah no I mean that's the thing like when I met Daniela I was still being approached for like partnerships yeah yeah try to maybe get into that world and Danielle kind of opened my eyes and was like hey you got kind of pick a lane here, right? Because I'm, I'm working at a firm that where I'm talking to

the high-powered Fortune 500 CFOs and stuff. And so like, I lose all credibility if I'm over here dancing on a video, like, or trying to be an influencer. So that's just not me. Yeah. You know, like I did do some recovery stuff. And that's probably what you're thinking of like. Yeah, you would hit me up at one point and say like, hey, I'm going to start, like, can you interact? And like, that is different. I'll do that all day. You know, I don't, I can't spend the time on it to really, like, make it what it could be. Just because, like, that's not my job.

I have my job that, but like, I will say when I started doing the recovery stuff, a lot of people reached out. And there were a lot of people that were consistently, like, loving it. But I just, I can't devote the time to it, you know. You're just on corporate America working at KPMG, the stigma in the, what has your experience been there? Yeah, I think. And not just a KPMG ride across the board, I've always shouted from the rooftops about my

recovery and about addiction. I post about it on LinkedIn and I do it in a way that is I'm not afraid of who sees it. Because here's the thing. Like if you don't like that about me, you don't like me because that's who I am. But I also do it because I want not only the people out there that are struggling to know that it's okay to talk about and to ask for help, but I want. I want for some of these other people that don't maybe know about it and aren't educated about it to be more okay and understanding of it, right? Because if they see a guy like me that they respect and they take advice from and that they work with and they do business with and they understand that I came from a place of turmoil and struggle and like almost death in my addiction,

and if I can get here, so can't everyone else, right? And there's been so many people that have reached out and said, hey, like, I know I have a problem, but I'm afraid if I talk about it, I'm going to be gone. I'm going to get fired. And not at my firm necessarily just in my past 20 years doing this. And I think that that is a travesty, right? I think that we, we are humans and we should be taking care of each other. And if you hired someone in the first place, it's because you saw value in them and if you value them as a worker and really as a as a human you should be having the compassion to help them and at the very least not penalize them for asking for it right so I think we have a long way to go in that regard we've come a really long way in eliminating

the stigma around it I think we've done really well especially with mental health in general but I think we've got to take the next step of saying now that we've now that we will say the word out loud, let's talk about the word and let's act on the word and be okay with the people that are dealing with it. Because right now, a lot of companies will talk about mental health, but their employees are all still terrified to admit they are going through it and ask for help. And I think that that's one of the biggest things we should be focusing on, you know. And there's more, look, there's people, like we're passing the torch in some ways. Like, my feet is constantly filled with people one year, two year, four, ten years sober and, like, good for them, man.

Like, my 19, 15, like, we're the dinosaurs now, you know? I know, man. It's crazy to think about. Makes me feel very old, but still. Ah, we're young, beautiful. James, I'm living that. I'm going to get that James tattoo. Yeah, we need to get James to make some shirts.

Yeah, you got a lot of life left to live. But, dude, it's been great catching up with you. I'm rooting for you. I think I want you to know that and a lot of people are rooting for you. Your story's powerful. Just the way you carry yourself. It's impressive. And dude, it's starting another family. It's crazy. It is. I didn't think I'd ever change another diaper. But here we are. Here we are, man. I'm excited. What Hunter Montgomery, why do you keep going?

I mean, I think I said it. I keep going because there's a whole lot of living left to do. I keep going because it's no longer about me. It's now about my 10-year-old boy who's going to do incredible things. My 13-year-old girl who is seemingly already 20, who I want to walk down the aisle one day. It's about my newborn that I get to go and be a dad again. It's about my wife and continuing to build this awesome life we have. I just, it's funny. I said I feel old, but in a lot of ways, I'm just beginning.

So it's good to keep going. Amen. This is a great conversation. I'm just grateful that you shared some time with me. I know you guys have a lot going on while you're here East. And we'll do it again sometime. Yeah, appreciate it, brother. Thanks, dude.

Thank you.