The Zac Clark Show - Ink, Drugs, and Redemption: Snuffy’s Journey from Dealer to Celebrity Tattoo Artist and Sculptor

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

In this episode of The Zac Clark Show, Zac sits down with renowned tattoo artist and sculptor Julius Margulies, a.k.a. Snuffy, to explore his powerful story of recovery and artistic transformation. Snuffy, who has inked celebrities like Pete Davidson and Machine Gun Kelly, shares how his creative explosion post-recovery helped him break free from past struggles.  With his unique approach to tattoo design, requiring clients to submit personal stories or essays before he creates custom, meaningful artwork, Zac and Julius dive deep into the role of art in healing, mental health, the importance of self-expression, and how recovery and the creative process can go hand-in-hand. For more info on Snuffy and his work: https://www.instagram.com/SNUFFY.NYC/ https://www.snuffy.us/#snuffy500 Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right, welcome back. We are noticeably playing in a way game today. Space is fucking awesome. I am here with Julius Margulies, who, how would you intro your, I mean, we got fine artists, sculptor, tattoo artist, entrepreneur, like, am I doing it justice? Yeah, I think you nailed it. Yeah? Yeah. I do all those things. And this is where it all goes down. This is where it goes down. End up. But I should give some context to how we got it. here so Sarah who just started working for us knew you from a project you guys were working on before fell in love with you like is a super fan she's just like this guy's energy is incredible he's got a great story of kind of redemption and and some mental health stuff and some substance like like so you know Google's a powerful tool so naturally you go and you start reading about you and for me I'm sitting here with someone who's very

humble very good at his craft you know in a lot of ways like I feel like your art is going to change the world. I mean, it's like I'm looking at it and it makes me feel good and it makes me have hope and hearing your story gives me hope. Tell me, so when I came in today, you made very clear to tell me that you do not, if someone wants to come into your studio or someone wants to talk to you or get a tattoo, they can't just put their arm out and say, hey, I want to cross with my mom's initials and like the day that she died and, you know, like the rosary like falling off of it. You're like, there's other people to do that and that's fine. And there's no judgment but if someone wants to work with you what is it deal they have to submit an essay they

got to write me a story it could be powerpoint it could be a short blurb it could be you know but the idea is like i'm giving you a piece of my soul as cheesy as it may sound like i want a piece of yours back um you know when somebody actually takes the time to articulate their story what ends up happening is that it's writing has sort of been lost on this era and when people are forced to write they they have to be concise they know I'm going to read it they know someone else going to read it they don't want to sound dumb so they write it and then they reread it and rewrite it and so on and so on and in effect they actually give themselves like a therapy of this moment because most of the time when people write to me, it's about something traumatic that they're either going through or they

overcame. And so in writing that to me, they're sort of giving themselves a therapeutic moment and reliving this thing and understanding what it means to them. And they believe that my tattoo is their therapy when in reality they're giving themselves therapy and the tattoo is just like a receipt of that moment. You know, it's sort of like a closing of that chapter. So that's why I request that people take the time to do that. And then they had whatever you are inspired to do, they're in. Yeah, I mean, look, it's on their body forever. So it's important to me that they love it.

And if they don't, then we just reconfigure it. I think 95% of the time, what I make is what they want. Because it's my responsibility to create something that's never been done before. and that's why as time goes on my job becomes more challenging because my objective is to create work that's not derivative and that's really hard when I feel like in the beginning it felt easy because I was like oh like yeah I never did this before but the thing is because I've done all these things

now I also can't go back to the shit that I've done because I feel like it's like breaking the rules for me so it's like I'm like where do I go from here you know which is why oh and then that's why I moved into fine art because

everyone dies and then all my arts will be gone because they're dead and my art is on them so like fuck I need to immortalize this shit and so my objective was to find

a way to to show my art. So that's why I made the light boxes because the best example is when I tattoo a portrait of your dog on you, it's surreal.

Because how could something so real exist on your arm? It's like the newspapers in Harry Potter. Magical. Now, when I take that same dog portrait and I draw it on a paper and slap it on the wall, it's no longer surreal. It's just a dog portrait.

realistic. And the reason I moved into light boxes was because it presents the artwork with depth and dimension and it makes the viewer question, how does this thing even exist? How is it put together? How many layers there are? And I think the objective with making good art is their technical prowess. Does it make me smile or laugh? And does it make me question how the fuck that even got put together and so when do you put the ink in the in the pen yeah um like i forget what year it was 20 whatever year was like six or seven years ago okay i was walking past strand books it was christmas time it was like probably exactly to this day and I was wanting to draw.

I just had this, like, burning desire to just draw. I don't fucking know. I had, with the real estate stuff, I had made a bunch of money, went and got tattooed and shit, and I was like, oh, this is cool. But I had never, like, I never drew, I guess in college I did, but I was so high that I forgot. I would, like, go and do graffiti and shit, but I don't remember. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Of course I do, yeah. Yeah, so. Yeah, so I had never, like, drawn seriously or anything. I mean, so anyway, I just wanted to draw. And I was getting all these tattoos. Right, that was the point. I was getting all these tattoos, and I was like, this is sick, you know?

And I was like, this is like a world that I never really thought about, you know? anyway um so a few years later after the tattoos i just felt compelled to draw and then it just like within two weeks i was just like had a tattoo license and then yeah it was like non-stop and and i think it's important to paint this picture is that i had those buildings in wensburg they were empty and all the landlords around me are these like old suit and tie motherfuckers that are just like off like just people i don't want to be like and so maybe as an active serve rebellion or whatever i had this building it was vacant and i told all the people i know like hey if you want to like be creative here the doors open that's the only rule it's like you can't just be

here like fucking around like you can you can fuck around but you have to be contributing it to be productive and next thing i knew i had like all these rappers and actors and all because it's in middle of fucking Williamsburg it's like a popular place yeah it's not like I'm in Kentucky or some shit no disrespect to Kentucky but we love Kentucky yeah Kentucky is my favorite they have the best chicken it's fried you know what I'm saying anyway next thing you know but because I approached life with open arms it hugged me back I had all these people I just came up with that that's a good one um ding so uh next to you know I built this huge community of people because I had this space and I was willing to and it was just this obscure thing

for them who would have thought you know so um once I started like drawing and then I got a tattoo license and I had told all these people they're like yeah I want a tattoo I was like like I want it now I was like I don't have my license yet like no I want it now and I was like no I don't know my license It's like, you know, I just wanted to do things right because if there's one thing that got scared the shit that like scared the shit out of me was doing something like my greatest fear is losing my freedom. Yeah. Having my freedom taken from me. Yeah. Because I've had it taken from me so many times and it scares the shit out of me.

That's why I try and do everything by the book when I can because is that a spiritual or psychological freedom? Or is that a being able to walk out your front door and do what you want, freedom, or a little bit of both? Oh, I think it's across the board. The one that scares me the most is, like, jail. Like, just being in a small... Like, I am claustrophobic because of all the trouble I got into.

Because of being in the back of the cop car and my fucking wrist being smushed. Yeah, it's a trauma. Yeah, it's just like, I don't think I'll ever live that down. But, yeah, that definitely, like, psychologically, you know, finds its way out in other ways of not wanting that's why um when it that's why when i have a piece of art that people relate to like i'll give example when i started tattooing i started doing all these images of like children in you know um in the artwork they were the subject matter and next thing you know

there was like all these people writing in like hey uh i really like this kid that you did can you also tattoo like something like that for me and I was like all of a sudden I realized I was being pigeonholed as like the guy that tattoos kids so I immediately stopped and I think that's part of you know I don't ever want to be pigeonholed into a thing and I think like just like I don't want to be pigeonholed into the back of a fucking cop car it's like the same so so yeah so that's what happened I like exploded out of real estate into drawing and because I built that community they all wanted tattoos and then you know then it's the first person you tattoo like i trust you here dude it was insane like because that's the thing for me it's i always think about like who wants

to be the the first patient of the doctor doing open heart surgery like who wants to be patient number i don't yeah you'd be surprised how many people just don't give a fuck as long as they like you yeah it's i was shocked i mean i was tattooing three four people a day and it's like i was just showing my buddy he was like hey let me see like your first tattoos and i was like there's this one oh this was on the same day oh this was on the same day it's all in a folder on my phone i was like damn i had tattooed a fuckload of people just in the first like three months yeah it was just like bam oh he's doing tattoos oh they're like free oh they're just a hundred bucks like yeah whatever and it was just like you know the 10 000 hours you know just like so um who's that gladwell

Well, who says 10,000 hours? Yeah. I just read his, the revenge of the tipping point. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if you read that one. Not the revenge. So your childhood, like you grew up?

So, okay, yeah. I was born in this land, a popular one. It's born in Jerusalem. And we moved here when I was like two or three. Here being New York City. Yeah. Like White Plains area. And yeah, just spent my life kind of like this immigrant kid being raised with like immigrant values in a very like non-immigrant place.

So I think that affected my, it just affected how I grew up because I always sort of felt like an outsider, even if I was part of like a cool crowd, like their families. would always go on a vacation together and my family was like not involved you know they were all italians from the bronx and were from israel so they like had it's like you know oil and water you go to treatment at 20 so what led up yeah uh essentially i was um so let's see what's the best way to put it i just like you know providing you know a good time for people and it was just it was a sort of like my drug of choice as well because people would just call me and I was like oh they like me you know and so yeah but at the end of it all I had started like mixing Xanax and percassette and ketamine

and ecstasy sounds amazing it was really fun yeah uh i honestly thought i was like bradley cooper and limitless like it was incredible yeah like it was incredible yeah um yeah until it wasn't you know what i mean and then it was really the zanax that that did be in pretty bad and uh anyway so yeah i fell asleep in the car the car was still in reverse i was trying to parallel park and get a bagel i was awake for like four days my friend was supposed to be working at the bagel shop he called out it was like christmas or you know december 27th yeah 2010 and then um yeah just like woke up and there's glass like hitting my face and it was the police you know surprise breaking into the car yeah and i was just like so cooked like

It was pretty, I mean, now it's funny, but it wasn't funny at all. You know what I mean? And then, yeah, there's just a lot of drugs in the car, a lot of drugs. Can I ask a question about that? What's that? So, drug deal, oh, well, providing a good time for people. Yeah, being the source, right? Okay.

Because I've talked to other guys, and they've struggled with the idea that they had this identity for however long it is, and their phone rings nonstop, and they feel very light. but then once the drugs go away and the phone stops ringing that's actually the hardest part to kind of like to come down from did these people really like me and I think in your success

in the art world it's probably a little bit of the same like do they just do they like me or do they like my work or is like how do you balance being a drug dealer is you have something that people want yeah well the cool thing is with tattooing it's like it's kind of the same thing i just can't get arrested

for it yeah it is pretty sweet yeah it is that that was definitely my drug of choice i mean was was making money you know what i mean and and that's that's sort of like a you know a futile existence because uh if your objective is make money then you will never reach you know happiness because there's infinity money. Like, even if you got every dollar ever, now you've got to go get every rupee ever, every peso ever, you're never going to win that battle. So you're never going to be happy.

And so that was a lesson that I had to learn in my early years was that, like, the objective of just having a lot of money is the wrong objective. Like, there needs to be purpose and fulfillment in the things you do. And success and money is a byproduct. of seeking fulfillment and that's it so um but that's what i learned in my sobriety was that like my objective of trying to get money which is why i wanted to be what i was was just the wrong objective um and yeah the come down from not being like popular anymore was an interesting one

Um, but yeah, then I had to seek fulfillment. So shifted gears from that. So you came out of that treatment experience and you're, I guess, 20 years old or 21 years old and you're like, when did you, like, did you therapy or would you? Well, I just did so much therapy and so much of that stuff in the first few years. Yeah. That I kind of was like, all right, like, the only time I'm bringing up this painful thing is. with my therapist. It doesn't exist anywhere else. And I was like, all right, this is a scam. Like, I'm out. You know, it's like, talking about this, like, I had this girl's friend that I was,

that she like broke my heart. And I was just, I would go to my therapist to talk about it. And after like a year, I recognized that the only time I would ever bring this up was there. And I was like, we're done. Like, I've graduated. Like, we don't, this is not, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that I'm cured or whatever the fuck, but it's just like, you know, this is unnecessary. And then when I went to the rooms, I was just like, all right, like another story about somebody's son who killed someone. And it's like, all right, it's not, it's not that I've heard it all, but it's like, I kind of heard it all.

And it's like, it almost felt that I was using it as a crutch when in reality, I just needed to call shit for what it was and get my fucking life to the next stage of where I wanted it to be. You know, I had reached this like level of success that was unprecedented for me. Like I always knew I would achieve success like that. But then I had got there. And I was like, wow, super depressed, you know. Mental health. Yeah.

I was just like this is because what happened was once I became sober, I had. had to earn the love and trust and everything of my family back and in order to do that the idea was like be an upstanding citizen be successful in business get my shit together yeah but you i mean i think the other thing that we failed to realize is that when we get so we also have to earn the love and respect of ourselves back right like look in the mirror and say okay i actually kind of like this person that's looking back at me and and i spent a lot of time running out the family and friends and all these other people my life trying to get the cookie and show everyone like hey look at me i'm sober now you should love me and some of them we're like through fuck you right who do you think you are and so that's when i realize i think it sounds like you did too that at some point i had to start taking care of myself yeah in sobriety

yeah so wait can i ask you some questions yeah we can let's do whatever so from like all right in the sense of like a school right you start in preschool and you graduate university so what's that process like for your programs like what's the entry and what's the exit yeah i mean look i i think if you want to talk about treatment yeah like a school system it's a great question and i don't think we look at it enough this way the treatment system's fucked okay i don't know if you've seen the movie 28 days with Sandra Bullock it's a pretty bad movie about inpatient treatment you know like it came out in the 90s that is very much what we thought for many many years worked basically you send someone to some farm

somewhere for 28 days and they either get sober they don't and then you release them back to the world and you know they either go back to drinking or they or they don't and it was kind of like that's the amount of time that insurance companies were willing to pay for someone to get care. Okay. We know enough now that, like, it has its benefits. I went to rehab. I went to rehab for four and a half months.

I think you... I went to rehab. You went to rehab, so you know what we're talking about. I view detox and rehab as the ICU. Okay. So if you can wrap your head around that, like, yes, they are walking and talking and presenting as a normal human being once the drugs are out of their system, but they're, they've been living a certain way for so long that they don't know.

how to exist in the world. So to your point, you're in preschool when you're in rehab. Right. Literally, you know nothing about yourself, why you do the things you do, why you act out, what you're addicted to, why your mind is this way, why you feel the way you feel.

And so I always say, like, if we can get someone for a year, like if you had a buddy that was struggling or mental health subsidies, I would ask for a year. Okay. And on the front end, you kind of front-load it, right? You put them in detox, you put it in rehab, but then you slowly allow them to start practicing these things in the real world and you keep some of the supports in place. So by the end of that year, you hope that, you know, they're living a fully

autonomous life where they're happy and they have purpose and they have vision and they're not relying on, you know, drugs, sex, whatever it was to fuel the dopamine hit. okay so when i went to rehab they there was no at least from what i can remember there weren't really any tools provided it was weird it was kind of just like a safe room 2010 it was like you know there was no stepwork no and no alcohols anonymous book like narcotics and not there was none of it um and uh i was like confused by that well here's saying i never knew what rehab was like i was messing around in the drug world and like people would just like get sent away and then i'd be like oh where's like steve and they're

like he's in rehab and i was like oh he like hurt his leg or something and they're like no he's like gone i was like oh all right because i had never you know i was always well stocked with drugs so it's like See, that was a terrible drug addict. Okay. Whatever I had was getting done that night. Yeah, I was waking up the next day, and it was back to figuring it out. Okay. So the thing is, like, I didn't know what, um, wow, I'm drawing a blank.

Um, not like detox, but when you're, like, uh, going through it. Withdrawals? Withdrawals. I didn't even know what the fuck that was because I was always like, good. Well stocked. Yeah. So like, there we go. Yeah.

So then when I got to rehab, um, I was going through. withdrawals but I didn't know if it was the if it was the jail sentence that they was hanging over my head or actual drug withdrawal that was like fucking me up but back to the point is that there weren't tools what is there now are there tools or is it like a 30 day period of like all right we're just going to make sure you don't do some stupid shit and then we're going to start assimilating you is that the right word yeah yeah into yeah so I think if a treatment center is really being honest with you yeah and you're calling and you're saying I want to come for 30 days.

What they're going to tell you is that we're only going to be able to scratch the surface. Physically, we need to remove the substance, whatever it is from your body. And then we are going to start to try and motivate you to make some changes. Yeah. You know, through individual therapy, hopefully like group therapy. Obviously, if you were in rehab, you remember the community, right? So being around people that are going through the same thing can be helpful. You mentioned, you know, 12-step recovery.

So A&A, there's smart recovery. There's a lot of different options right now for community and how to get connected to a program of recovery. And then a lot of that time is going to be set up figuring out what you're going to do next. Like if you really only have, so if you're going back home and you have a wife and two kids and you're going back to work, hopefully there's some time being spent preparing you for that transition. But the actual tools, I mean, I believe, in the value of the lived experience. So taking the things that you learn in treatment

and applying them to the world at release, which is the hat that you complimented me on. Thank you. We'll get you one. We believe in long term. Okay. And then slowly, you know, working yourself back into into life, but not everyone can afford to take six months off. Right. So what do you suggest to those people? That can't? Yeah. Through the best damn job, you possibly can yeah like there's all the cheesy sayings man and i think i we could do a whole episode on this i think the treatment world and therapist kind of made up a bunch of shit 20 30 40 years ago around like don't date in your first year like people places and things like all these like treatment kind of things that they tell you i don't know that any of it's true

like i've i've met people that start dating 15 days sober and they're like married with kids and very happy now. Yeah. You know, what I found is that there needs to be a light for people to go to. Yep. So it's kind of just like when you're down, anything that you can attach yourself to to get you by is like what you'll sort of attach yourself to.

So those, I think those sayings, you know, they could be like, you know, you know four coffees a day and you'll be sober and like people will be like yeah four you know it's just like whatever will help get somebody to the next level of you know um living you know living good and clean i think but i'm with you on i think like everyone has a different i guess like lived experience but what i found the works in the program is like uh you know i did it pretty intensely for like a two year period And it made me, um, it made me aware of, like, how I was affecting other people. And it made me accountable.

And I think like, when I look around at everybody on the way to the, to work on the subway and shit like that, like people are like fucking zombies. They're like on their phone. not aware, not accountable, like where there's like this crazy, like, epidemic of, oh, wow, I have like the best quote, but I forgot it. I wrote it on my, I'll come up with it later. Your quote or someone else? It's my quote, yeah. Epidemic of incompetence.

Yes, great quote. But there's an epidemic of incompetence. I mean, we'll go down a rabbit hole on it later, but ultimately, it's, It's like when we were kids and we had like a play date, if you didn't show up, you were dead. Like something was wrong. You know what I mean? Like car accidents, something, you know? There isn't like, there wasn't a text.

It was like, I'd call your house. Your mom would pick up. She'd be like, yeah, he's like on the way. Right. And if you didn't show up, something happened. But now it's just everybody's like, hey, I'm late. You know, or like, hey, this is, it's gone to this point. I have like meetings with like executives or whatever the fuck and they'll send me Google calendar.

It'll be in my calendar. I'm preparing for the meeting and I'll literally just get an alert that it was changed. Right. And then 20 minutes later, their assistant would be like, hey, like frogs, they're jumping in Mississippi. Like we have to change it. Like what? And so this whole idea of like accountability and. um being aware and consider it i just feel like it's getting lost and that's why

i owe a lot to sobriety and and all that shit yeah it makes you it makes you show up it holds you accountable makes you i i'll never forget i was like six or seven years over i was dating a girl and we had a sleep over we had a slumber party on a school night you know like i you know and we overslept a little bit yeah so she got to work at I don't know, 10 o'clock. Yeah. And I was talking to her later in the day, and I was like, you know, what did you tell your boss? Or was your boss upset that you were late?

And it was a little thing, but it bothered me. She said, oh, I just told him that I forgot my computer and then the subways were, like, she just made up this elaborate story. Yeah. I said, why couldn't you just tell him that I'm sorry that I'm late? I'll try not to have, like, have it happen again. Right. There doesn't need to be the whole story.

Yeah. Like, we've lost that. Yeah. I'd say brutal honesty has gotten me a trouble. And she flipped out on me. She's like, you calling me a liar? I said, I'm not. Well, yeah.

I mean, a little bit, I guess, yeah. Yeah, you lied. You lied. You lied. You lied. Yeah. So, so are you, you're with her now? No, no, no, no.

And I don't think there's no chance she'll actually hear any of this. So I'm like, you know, we're fine. so that that like that was like a chink in the armor of the relationship in any relationship yeah if i find someone to be dishonest or lying that's going to be a major red flag and my i'm probably hypersensitive to it like i'm probably because of the sobriety and i wish i could kind of give a shit less yeah do you cut people out of your life and if so How? You want to go into the...

No, I mean, like... No, I mean, it does... It could be friends. It could be... It's not just about... Yeah. It's really interesting, you asked this, because you must sense an energy.

I... I was having a conversation with my dad. My dad's 82 years old. Okay. And we were talking about just this, like relationships. And he... He kind of said to me,

like, he doesn't have a lot of time left on this planet. And she said, son, like, there's going to be... relationships that you, that are going to be the most meaningful relationships to you at that moment in your life. And then they are going to disappear and they are going to go away. Sometimes you're going to cut them out. Sometimes they're going to do something to you. Sometimes you're going to move. You know, I had a, I had a business partner and a best friend that like, you know, for 10 years, we were thick as thieves and he's no longer in my life.

You know, so like these relationships that feel so special and meaningful. a lot of them come to an end and that's why I think the marriage or the divorce rate like forget it 50% or whatever they say like what about just like the friendship rate yeah what's that what how many times do friendships break up yeah it's difficult to approach life and it's important not to approach life like a scorned lover in every fucking relationship whether it's like dealing with my plumber or a girlfriend You know, it's just like, because I find at this point, I've lost a lot of friends. I think COVID just like totally changed the way people engage socially. Yeah.

But yeah, you know, without blaming COVID, regardless, there's always people getting lost and stuff. And yeah, how I would say, I would be curious how you approach new relationships. especially when they're so similar to old ones that had to get cut off. Yeah, I mean, look, dude, I'm 40 years old, so making friends is not the easiest thing. Why? Well, I'm not someone that says, you're like, I have enough friends. Like, I think that's kind of a cop-out. Yeah.

I love meeting new people. Right. it takes time to build really meaningful connection in my experience and so I don't know I mean I would ask you the same question like how like are you cutting people out like what do your relationships look like especially how are your relationships with men you know because like there's a loneliness thing going on with dudes where yeah a lot of my friends like having kids yeah um you know there's definitely a gravitational force around that you know in the older age um i agree with you about friendship being important and i like making new friends i think it just about it just has to do with like calling shit for what it is yeah so like if i'm i just walked into a store yesterday and somebody said something to me that made me upset and i was like immediately was about to react and thought, okay, what am I, what energy am I carrying? What's her job? Why is she

treating me this way? You know, and so, okay, back to just like practical, how to deal with entering a new relationship when it's so similar to something that hurt me in the past. I just realize, or I just say, this person is not that person. Like, this is a new relationship. I'm going to recognize the flaws and it that like the flaws that I had in the past relationship if I had any and just like you know enter it with open arms you know and just yeah realize that's not the same person but protect myself from how much of that mindset you think goes back to your experience as a child in coming to this country and then at times maybe feeling like an outsider. now in your life do you think that trauma translates to you wanting to make people feel included and wanting to make people feel um i'm a people pleaser by nature and i always want to feel i always want people to like me so it's hard for me to say no that's why when people put me in a spot that i am uncomfortable with it pisses me off um because they're asking me it's like

if you asked me to help you move there's no right answer I'm just going to get you movers no no I'll pay for the move because like I'm a fucking adult I have shit to do no I can't take my entire day to go and help you move

unless it's like some fucked up shit happened in your house and the person who like did you wrong and it's like and you need that you need me personally there, then yes. But if you're just like, hey, can you help me, like, move some shit? I'll be like, no.

Right. Fuck you. And then if you ask me again, some shit like that, then it's like, you know, you're not, you're being inconsiderate of my time, of who the fuck I am and what I do. I'm an artist. I'm not a fucking mover. If you want to spend time with me as your friend or you need my help or, um, sort of, like you need me, you need a shoulder to cry on or whatever.

then just call it for what it is and I'll do that, you know? But like, don't. And so anyway, the point is I think, like, I also, I get upset because I would never fucking ask someone else to do that for me. That's just because I'm aware. Right. But I think a lot of that's like this fourth dimension of existence that they say we get from getting sober and getting, you know,

like you we've shared like you went to rehab you got cleaned up a bit and then we start to really see the world a bit clearer and the thing that I'm really leaning into recently is this whole idea that when I in my relationships expect something I'm fucked like expect that you're going to say thank you that you're going to hold the door for me I'd rather just live and then appreciate when it does happen

Yeah. Like moving from expectations to appreciation for me is really where I'm trying to spend time right now because if I just walk around this planet expecting thing from other people, I am going to be disappointed. Damn. Yeah. All the time. All the time. Yeah, maybe I should stop expecting people to get off their phones in the subway. I find myself passing judgment.

Not all the time, but when I do, I recognize it. And I'm just like, I don't know. It's like what you were saying before. Like I was less on, like a less aware of shit. Yeah. And it's just for me, it's knowing and having confidence that I'm treating people the right way. And in managing a business, this happens all the time. Someone will give notice.

And rather than just saying, thank you for this opportunity, I'm moving on. Right. They got to throw in the fucking, like the little zinger. I just can't be in a job where I'm attached to my phone all time, right? The environment, the culture, and, like, I'll take it so personally. Yeah. And then I want to write back and be like, dude, I gave you four weeks of vacation, paid you well. Like, I want to, like, build the case.

Instead, my response has to be 100% of time. Thank you so much. I'm rooting for you. Yeah. Because I'm not going to win that. Right. I'm not going to fucking win that conversation. You're not going to, you're not going to, I mean, maybe you're this powerful

and some of your art will inspire people to get off their phones, but you're not in that moment going to inspire people to get off their phones. It's just that battle is lost. Yeah. So. Yeah, no, that's not a battle I'm going to choose to. It's not necessarily a battle. It's more just like, yeah, I'll just make art about it.

and like, you know, until I can find a solution that's, like, useful, but yeah, I don't know. But yeah, I think, I guess to not to stray from the point, I guess, like, living, you know, giving without expectation is like a fundamental, like, part of my recovery. I think it sounds like it's part of yours as well. And, um, yeah, what it's, uh, one of those sayings is expectation robbed us of our serenity. Is that what the fuck it is? Yeah, I think... No, you're right.

And there's something in the big book about that. Like the higher your expectations go up, like the lower your serenity sinks. Oh, okay. It's something along like it's... Yeah. And I mean, I feel that. You said something earlier that when you...

Which was fucking really powerful to me to hear because it explained to me what I try to tell people who are trying to get sober. is the light. What is that light? And we all, when we finally find, like for me,

the light is or has been, you know, my work at release recovery. I love running. I love going to sporting events. I love going to live music. I love playing golf. Like I know what my light is.

I know what I want to keep working towards. Like being able to do those things in a way that feels good to me. And it sounds like you had the financial success. And then ultimately you got to place where like yes you had done some therapy you had been to some meetings you had gotten cleaned up but there was like the light was still missing yeah so what happened was i was making all these moves to get to have the cookie and like you know get to trust from my family

and show people that i was a good person yeah a good person just like a stable upstanding citizen who's just fucking killing it. Yeah. You want to fix that? No, we're good. I feel bad. Don't feel bad. I feel so good.

And in that, in all of that work, I was suppressing all of my creativity. Yeah. And being a, being a kid. Yep. I was sacrificing my, my childhood so that I could grow up. Yep. And, yeah, I just couldn't suppress it anymore. So I had, so I just, there was this, like, explosion of creativity.

Because I had, before I was, before I became sober, I was making a lot of music. I was always creative. I was always outside. Everyone was playing video games. I was outside. I was skateboarding, rollerblading. BMXing like everything sports and all that shit and then yeah once I became an adult it was like adult and it's like when you start being an adult or when you you know it's when

you start like when you really when you stop being a kid that's when you start dying that's how I feel it's like I have to be a kid all the time that's why I say dumb shit and dress like a kid like because I'm a kid and if I stop being a kid then I stopped having fun I was reading that um The opposite. I'm leaning into that energy. Yeah. The opposite of happiness isn't sadness, it's boredom. So I'm just like, all right, I can't be bored.

That's Tim Ferriss. Tim Ferriss for, have you read that book? I know of Tim Ferriss and I need to indulge. Yeah. It's, I didn't, I'm, I'm in the sort of beginning of the book, but, uh, but yeah, that's what happened. it was a it was that i was ignoring i guess you could say like spirituality in a sense but really i was sacrificing my creativity uh because i thought that was what got me in trouble yeah yeah but you use this word trapped as the inspiration for a lot of your work is that relate to like the freedom

piece that you were just talking about or I mean it's literally if you read your bio on on your website it's in the first five or six lines like that word and it just jumped out at me and so I'm just curious like where and obviously this is like I think this one's called addiction right like this guy's head is come back here right I guess what I learned about myself is like I'm the only one that preventing my progress like I'm the only one that's setting the like putting myself in my own jail yeah so I'm the only one stopping myself everybody's the there I found myself like always at the edge of the cliff knowing that this

five minutes of pain is the only thing preventing me from a lifetime of changes so it's like if i'm in a bad relationship you know i'm not going to stay in it for 40 years because of like the bible or whatever the fuck you know and i find that those five minutes or whatever call it five hours of a shitty conversation and having to move out and feeling bad like i'm just using a relationship as example you could say with a bad job you know a shitty boss or whatever it's like you know people choose to stay in that shit forever

right because of because of fear because of comfort because of whatever it is yeah but it's on them like to just escape that so what time you got it over there

I just want to make cool I should have a 130 but we're good let's keep ripping yeah so that's it that's all it is it's you know it's definitely a mental health piece like a lot of the work is about

yeah i mean when i when i look around yeah a lot of the work is just about confinement and being being trapped and that that five minutes of like ripping the band-aid off yeah and why do you think that so many people struggle to do that and just conform to what they believe others want them to be or what they they they have fooled themselves into thinking that they should be As you get older, you start having to be practical about your life. There's real bills to pay, like, mom and dad aren't, like, actually mom and dad are not there to pay your shit. So you got to figure it out. And so that dream of being, you know, a stand-up comedian or a fashion designer or whatever, it's like, if you couldn't cut it, then, you know, you got to figure out how to be pragmatic.

And I think that I've seen it even with myself, like, as I get older, there's just less, like, mega risks that I want to take. Because taking, like, making it requires some naivety and it requires some grandiosity. How much of your work fuels your mental health, fuels your ability? Oh, all of it. Yeah. Yeah, it's like free therapy. Well, you shared that. Like when we walked into this space and just like if you're listening, the space is sick and beautiful and it's just the energy as soon as I walked in, you know, Julius met me at the door and the greenery and the plant and the life in here is just so amazing.

But you said to me, if you could live here, you may be would, but you wouldn't because if you're living in the space where you work, you'll never turn it off. And I'd never identify with something more, you know. Yeah. I mean, I'm great. Does it feel like work? No. Like it doesn't feel daunting necessarily. There always is that. I mean, of course, there's taxes and all this shit and like, you know, adult things. But in general, like it doesn't feel like a grind. Like I'm excited. Like when we get off of this, I have to go sculpt and print. And like there's so many things that I'm excited to do. But it ebbs and flows. But it's definitely work. No question. You know, it's definitely work. but I do think that like the return on investment of having a place that I live at and a place that I work at is by like orders of magnitude for my mental health. I don't think it could necessarily, it can't be calculated in like a tangible way, but I do recognize how it affects my relationship and I've spoken to my girlfriend about that where I'm just like, hey, we as I'm looking for, like we,

I was working out of my house for a year or so. And I told her from the beginning, I was like, listen, this is going to be a challenge for our relationship. Because I don't know when my work stops and when my personal life stops or starts or whatever the fuck. And so I had to be, I had to have that conversation with her and be communicative about that. um so that's why i uh need a place to live and a place to work yeah yeah i think the bottom's going to fall out like the whole covid work from home don't be around other people that that that that that story is is not all been told yeah i don't think it's going to be productive for businesses i don't think it's to be productive for humanity our mental health the whole thing

just sitting at home wedged in a corner somewhere like hacking away i don't i don't i don't as humans we were meant to live that way but i mean you know there's so much left to unpack i mean nobody's even talked about the mental health like psychological damage caused by just shutting people down you know we're trying to talk about it here we're trying to do it right now with you you know i i don't there's so much left to unpack about it because that shit was amazing COVID was amazing for me. And I know for many other people it was not. Let me ask you a question.

So if you look at your work and you look you up, like you've had this, it's very fascinating to me because you've worked with a lot of cool people. We don't need to get into who because quite frankly, you know, I had this belief, though, that the people that, like you've, you've you've traveled in some interesting circles you've been in some interesting rooms right like but i don't get the sense that like you're so humble around it i don't get the sense that you actually wanted that do you believe that because that is your energy it actually makes you

more attractive to these people because they know that you're not in it for the starfuckery or like whatever like does that make am i making sense with that question like yeah absolutely I have an anecdote about that I used to be obsessed with Jordans with sneakers there's a big deal I'm retiring but yeah yes

and then I became a landlord but I would still wake up at like 7 am. and like get a sneaker bot and try and like get the thing and one day I woke up and I was like what the fuck am I doing? Like I own real estate Here I am like trying to sneaker bought some shoes Let me just focus on real estate

Be the best at that And I could buy whatever fucking shoes I want whenever You know And so When I put my focus on things up here All the other things like shuffle in Like my focus is not about being around celebrity people Because I don't give a shit

My focus is about making the best art Telling the best stories And just fostering genuine relationships with people I give a fuck about I think there's a real like I take a lot of pride in like the close five people around me you're young we're young I mean I we're young we're young we're young guys we we have a lot of light that we're chasing or the light has come in what is next for you what it what is important to hear about Julius and his journey and where you're going. Yeah, what's next is like I've tattooed, you know, a lot of people and now I want to

tattoo the earth. So the objective from this point forward is to produce these sculptures and the ones that I'm working on on a bigger scale. On a, on a massive scale. Yeah. And leave them. And just leave them. Yeah. I knew I always knew I wanted to be an artist. I mean, the shit, the way that you're and like you really do. You're leaving a leg. I mean, like, we. all leave legacy we all leave i think the powerful thing you said about like tattooed a lot of people and they die so all your artwork dies i mean that you might have a lot of tattoo artists turning in their pens after this episode if if you know what i mean like you know like that's a pretty powerful statement yeah and what about the guy out there that's like struggling with

his mental health or like you know you've you've you've become a champion of it and you're you're speaking a lot through your art around the mental health thing and that's obviously something we're passionate about here and I just you know I love human connection I love authentic conversation what is one thing you would tell someone who's struggling with their mental health get a pen and a paper like a journal and just write um that's it that's it yeah you need to find an outlet like you know we're for like a heating system there's a pressure valve and that pressure valve needs to be released yeah you know what i'm saying that was nuts that was fucking nuts dude i have no

buttons just yeah we just have the energy yeah all we are is dust in the wind who was that kansas yeah that's right we are i don't know actually i don't know if it's a great song yeah it'll be lead into this episode yeah uh dude i feral version yeah okay you're an inspiring human i really appreciate your time welcoming us into your space and just what you're doing like your your willingness to be creative and and i don't know man i just i feel very happy to have had this conversation with you thank you for coming on yeah feelings mutual thanks for all