The Zac Clark Show - Ken Rideout: From Opioid Addict to World Champion

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

When you look up Ken Rideout, you get a wild list of labels: prison guard. Wall Street trader. Opioid addict. Fastest marathoner in the world over 50.In this episode, Ken sits down with Zac to talk about reinvention – and what it actually takes to change your life. From crushing opioids and cocaine, and hiding addiction while building a career in finance, to detoxing, rebuilding from the ground up, and eventually becoming a World Champion marathoner, Ken’s story is one of radical ownership.We talk about:The brutal reality of opioid addictionSuboxone, Vivitrol, kratom – and the hard truths about “shortcuts”Why getting sober is the foundation for everythingRunning 4,000 miles a year as a new addictionTherapy, trauma, and what Onsite taught himMarriage, cancer, fatherhood, and what actually mattersWhy the timing is never perfect to make a changeThey also discuss Ken’s new book, The Other Side of Hard, is for anyone standing at the edge of a decision – sobriety, career shift, health reset – wondering if it’s possible.His message is simple:No one is coming to save you. You can reinvent yourself. Take the first step.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release Recovery:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

someone that I just have taken so much from, how are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, the book's going to be awesome. The book's going to do awesome, man. Other side of heart. So March? March 10th.

We'll make sure we promote that. When you Google Ken Rideout, it says Ken Rideout is the fastest marathoner in the world over 50, a former prison guard, Wall Street trader, an opioid addict. That's a pretty wide range of labels. Who's Ken? Who are?

are you bro long overdue dude this is an easy one because like you're you're a friend and uh someone that i just have taken so much from how are you doing doing good a lot of anxiety recently i got the book launch coming up yeah kids are always challenging need to find some more peace yeah the book's gonna be the book's gonna do awesome man other side of heart so march march 10th yeah march 10th. We'll make sure we promote that. When you Google Ken Rideout, it says Ken Rideout is the fastest marathoner in the world over 50, a former prison guard, Wall Street trader, an opioid addict. That's a pretty wide range of labels. Who's Ken? Who are you, bro? All of those things. When I was describing the book recently, someone asked me, who's the book for? Or, you know,

what are the topics? And I said, it's for everyone who might. be considering a change, whether it's getting sober, making a career change, getting into fitness. And as I was describing it, I was thinking, you know, you can reinvent yourself whenever you like. People always ask me, like, how did you make the change? In particular, people ask, how did you make the change from working on a trading desk for 20 plus years? You start to think that's your only station in life. And I always say, like, the timing is never going to be right. The stars are never going to be aligned. You just have to decide when you're ready to make a change to just do it and deal with the consequences.

And I don't know, I've always dealt well, dealt with the situation well when I've painted myself into a corner. And I'm like, oh shit, I have got to figure this out or I'm in big trouble. I had four kids. We moved from New York to L.A. I had a crazy expensive, you know, rental situation in the palaces, trying to keep up appearances, for lack of a better. term and, or for lack of a better description. And I had no choice but to figure out a solution. And eventually I did and it led to this kind of space and health and wellness. But back to the book and back to who I am, the book, again, is for anyone looking to make a change. But it's

also talks about what I would describe as a rough childhood, my time working as a guard in a prison. my time as a Wall Street trader, and then my subsequent addiction and recovery, my introduction to endurance sports, and then becoming, you know, a marathon age group world champion. And although the headline says fastest marathon are in the world over 50, I'm sure that there are other runners out there.

I know there are other runners out there over 50 that are maybe faster, but at the World Championship race on the day that matters, like the equivalent of the Olympics, I won. And, you know, the two guys that came in second and third, both had run several minutes faster than me the year of this race. But, and I cover the story in depth in the book about the actual race, because the race itself was like a book for people that are into running

because there were so many ebbs and flows, and I was in third place, then I was in second, and I eventually won in Chicago. So it's like a race within the race. you know, so the Chicago Marathon host that in 23 hosted the age group world championships, the World Marathon majors, age group world championships. And so we're all identified, everyone in different age groups are all identified with numbers on our front and back. So you can kind of see within the race who you're racing in your age group.

What did you run that day? 229, 10. Which is an average mile of what? 540. 540 at 52? Yeah. 52. You're not, dude.

You know, I sit across from you, it's funny because a lot of people will ask me about, like your story's highly publicized when they see us kind of hanging out on social media or whatever, like, what's this guy like? And I always say, you know, he is absolutely who he is that you see. Yeah. But there's another side of Ken that I don't think a lot of people get to see that I do get to see. And I'm very grateful for that. And so, like, why do you think our friendship works?

Why do you think we've found this space to be vulnerable with each other as two guys who I think to the outer world are pretty serious dudes? Yeah, I think that if I have any gifts, it's certainly not intellectual firepower, but I have like a high emotional intelligence, I think, in identifying people's intentions. and when I see someone who's honest and good, I can be very vulnerable because outside of this exterior that other people see, which I don't necessarily always get that I guess I come across as intense to people, but I don't feel. You're intense, dude. I mean, I can tell you that.

You are. And it's one of my favorite things about you. I don't feel like, I mean, I know that I am and I have some intensity, but I feel like at my core, I'm like too gentle. and maybe that exterior or the intensity that I'm showing is masking the underlying insecurity or tenderness that I feel in my heart. And I think when it comes to you and I, I just see kind of a kindred spirit and a similar personality type, especially with our recovery stories, although your addiction was much

grittier than mine. I did a better job at hiding mine and faking my way through it. But yeah, I don't know. I just, I feel like when people, I have a good sense of when people are sincere and honest. And I don't think that there is a lot of that in the world, certainly not in the social media circles. Yeah, I mean, I can tell you for me, I've never walked into a conversation with Ken Rideout and questioned whether there was going to be like honesty and loyalty and trust in that. And for me, those things are very important.

and allows me to let my guard down. And I don't find that in a lot of my relationships. So I wanted to thank you because I feel like we've met each other on this comment. I mean, we both did OnSight, right? And that's a program that takes a lot of vulnerability. And we've shared some of our experiences there. What did you gain from that? I mean, like, for those of you that don't know OnSight is a,

it's a five and a half, seven day kind of intensive, therapeutic process where you're talking about your family and your child of origin and what, I mean, can you talk a little bit about what therapy means to you or what that process, what that did for you, what you thought therapy was walking into on-site and what you walked away with? I had a pretty good understanding of what therapy was. I've been in and out of like psychotherapy over the years. I just never found any that really worked.

And I probably went there thinking I had less trauma, was dealing with less trauma than I actually had and not that listen I'm not one of these people that's like you know you start telling me how bad things are and I'm like oh yeah I was so traumatized no but I mean the way I look the way they described to me they were like telling me asking me about my childhood I'm describing it and they'll and they're like you don't think you had trauma I'm like not really it was like you know you just deal with what's in front of you lots of people had it worse and they were like okay well what if your children had to deal with this and that's when I was like you know my kids could never handle this and they were like why do you think

that you're special. Like people are people. And you know, I like the expression that the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you is the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you, whether it was sexual abuse or someone, you know, yelled at you or bullied you. Yeah, your first breakup as a 12 year old, like whatever it is. Yeah. The trauma, I heard someone say the trauma just fills the void. It doesn't matter if it's like, you know, 10 pounds or 10 ounces. It fills the entire void that that's that holds trauma and um so if you if something traumatized you like it has to be dealt with and um i don't know to me the on site was a huge eye opener just in terms of like how i was dealing with my emotions in particular with my wife and my children because at the end of

the day, the only thing that really matters is like your relationships and your family. All the other stuff is all bullshit, like careers and money and that stuff comes and goes. It's not, you could have the best career and the most money in the world, but if you have like an empty vessel when you get home, like what's the sense? You know, people think that money is going to make them happy. And I get it if you've never had any money. And listen, I grew up with no money. So I'm not trying to poo-poo that struggle, but I'm telling you, as someone who's had money, lost money several times, it's like I'm the same person, broke or wealthy, and the only thing that's made a difference in my life spiritually is having relationships with my family and friends like you, because, you know,

there's plenty of studies out there as a famous Harvard study that went back and looked at people over 100 years from a bunch of different socioeconomic backgrounds, and the one comment theme that they found to live in a fulfilled life, whatever that means to you, is a sense of community and relationships. And if you keep focusing on that and try not to get caught up in the struggle of keeping up with the Joneses monetarily in particular, I think that it provides a much more fulfilling experience. Yeah, I mean, look, dude, you know a lot of people. You know, you're sitting there front row with Dana White at UFC. Like, there's this great photo of your, of your kids there in the Boston gear.

You've rubbed shoulders. You know, I remember I was with you one day. I'm like, dude, check out this voice note. The Rock just sent me. So you're like operating at a very high level, right? And I guess my question to you is how do you, how do you feel like as a guy? I think men historically struggle with friendship a little bit more, especially at our age. How do you decide where you're going to put time into your relationships, whether it be a friend, whether it be a business partner, whether, like,

Because that's something I struggle with. There's only 24 hours in a day. I try to be super responsive to all of my, you know, close friends and give everything I can. But the place where I always like struggle with being kind is when like strangers will like DM me and be like, hey, can you got a minute to jump on a call? And I'm like, you know, I try not to be a dick, but sometimes I'm like, brother, I have four kids. has cancer. I got six jobs. I'm training like a savage. Like I'm trying to keep my head above water. No offense, but do you really think that I have time for that? Like, I'm responding to you. Don't, if what you want is a response for me, use the bullet carefully. Like, what do you want?

Like, ask the question, but asking for my time is a crazy request from a stranger without, here's what I'm looking for. Boom, boom, boom. Do you have time for this? And that's kind of the way I think about everything is like you know when it comes to friends you you drop everything you know and it's and i'll tell you one thing having my wife go through the um cancer struggle really like was eye opening and illuminating for me that's recent right that's in the last couple months i mean that was that was surgery in november was probably diagnosed in september octoberish and how did that experience change you oh my god talk about getting knocked on your ass. I've never, it's, it's easy to say like a rich man has a million problems,

a sick man has one until you're the sick man. And then you realize like truer words have never been spoken. Nothing, nothing matters without your health. And that's why I say, back to onsite, I always preach on social media anytime like I get a chance to say it, like take care of your mental and physical health, like your life depends on. it. But the key is mental and physical. Mental included, like you have to focus on your mental health, and that's something that I've probably, I probably have a harder time focusing on taking care of my mental health more than anything else. The physical stuff is just like a non-negotiable. I just get up, bang it out. I'm like a, like a soldier. The mental health, it's easy to

look for crutches and take the easy way out for me. It's like I feel like an overweight person with physical fitness like I don't really want to do it that's how I feel about my mental health but when I do that I realize the only person that I'm hurting is myself and again when my wife was diagnosed it was you know when you hear someone has cancer initially it sounds like a death sentence I'm like oh my God I have four kids like what what are we even going to tell them but in terms of breast cancer thank God she's been the best case scenario she had a mastectomy doesn't need chemo or radiation so now they just wait for that mastectomy to heal, and then she'll get like a reconstructive surgery.

And I joke with her because you have to find a way to laugh about this. I said, look, at the end of the day, you're going to end up with a great new set of cans, and no harm, no foul. We're going to give an example of what it looks like to have grace under pressure and deal with adversity, but you come out of it with an upgrade. We're all good. Yeah.

I mean, I saw her over the holidays, and she was in great spirits. And I just remember, you know, you put something up on Instagram kind of walking in your neighborhood, which I know well. We've run there together many, many times. And you were very raw and vulnerable in saying, like, you know, I don't even know how to respond to all the outreachers, all these people. Like, this feels like the best way to kind of let people know that, like, yes, my wife has cancer.

We're grateful for your support. And we don't know what the hell we're doing. Yeah, I wasn't sure about what to do. I didn't want to seem like, oh, my wife has cancer. I'm going to get on social media right now. And like, you know, because I know that people do some wacky shit on social media. It's like, it affects me. But we're all, we're all guilty at one point or another.

But what I don't want to do is like have to call up. People like you and be like, hey, listen, my wife has cancer. Like, that's an uncomfortable position for everyone. So by doing it the way I did it, everyone knows. And then if someone wants to reach out, cool. And I was overwhelmed by the love and support. but I would be lying if I wasn't shocked by the silence of other people that, you know, I guess you can assume maybe they didn't see or didn't know, but I mean, I don't know.

If you didn't know and didn't reach out and I mean, we can't be that close anyway. So I don't know. I would listen, it's part of being vulnerable. I'd be lying if I said like, oh, no big deal. I'm sure they had their own shit going on. No, when you're going through that, you're like aware of who's like there for you and who's like reached out, even just. a simple phone call. I mean, some people went above and beyond. My friend Andy Cronchonap would

gotten his truck and drove down from Minnesota while the day she had surgery. And he was like, yeah, I'm not even asking. I'm coming. I was at the hospital. He's like, hey, I'm outside your gate. Tell the people I'm coming in. I'm going to take the kids and come home. There's all Starbucks cup cups around, right? I don't take the kids for $5 drinks at Starbucks. I'm like, we'll have juice here. And he's like, oh, I took the kids. You know, young teenagers, they love going to Starbucks for these freaking drinks. And he's like, yeah, I took them to, I took them to the bucks and all this and that. I'm like, how'd you even know?

He's like, I have daughters in high school. I'm like, dude, they must be, the kids must have love you. And he's like, oh, they're having a great time. But that's what I mean. Like people just, it was just, it was overwhelming for a lot of reasons. But I'm so glad it's over with, man. Those first few, first two months when she was diagnosed were dire to, Yeah, you can see it on you.

Dyer. You can see it. It's terrible. Watching someone you love go through that is so 10 times worse having to myself. If I had cancer, I'd be like, all right, fuck, I get cancer. I'm going to deal with this. Like, what's the next step? Well, I remember you saying you'd rather have it than your wife.

Oh, anything. Yeah, because, I mean, I don't know. Like, you know, she's tough and stuff, but, like, there's a big difference between being tough in the day-to-day and being tough when you're, like, face with potential, like, real consequences. And she did great, but it was very. hard to like not be in control of that right so I want to launch into the to the drug addiction the opioids do you grew up in Boston obviously you kind of

chronicle in your book some of the things that may have happened to you were you experienced in your childhood you then went on to kind of forge this path for yourself do you do you think your addiction was manufactured by your circumstance or do you think you have it in like a hurt Do you think you were born with it? No, I think I manufactured it. The first time I ever did any hard drugs in college, I was literally just curious about Cramingham State.

And I just remember people talking about cocaine, but I had never seen it. I didn't know anyone who did it. And I just, I knew a couple of guys that were into drugs and stuff. And I was like, hey, next time you're doing that, let me know, I want to try it. I don't even know why. And then, of course, once I tried it, I was like, this is awesome. You know, and it takes a few years to figure.

out that it's not awesome. But I feel bad when I moved to New York and start working in finance and being around people that had money, I felt bad for the nerds that had never done anything when they were younger. And now at like 30 with money and a real career, they discover Coke for the first time because it's like, if you like it, it takes a while to figure out like this is a losing proposition. You're going to waste days of your life. Seeing the sun comes up. Seeing the sun come up, even now, like brings back like mad, painful memories. I'm like, when I saw the sun come up, I was like, you stupid motherfucker, you did it again.

You just gave away a day of your life because I know I'm not going to sleep. I'm going to be tossing and turn and it's going to take me two days to get back to normal. So your first love was cocaine. Yes. And that started in college and then carried into your kind of trading career.

And then when did you find it? A little bit. When I moved to New York, I basically stopped drinking because I realized if I didn't have a drink, I would never make such a crazy, decision to do coke. Never. I would never be sober and be like, let's do coke.

I would always have a few drinks. And then. Yeah. So then when I moved to New York, I stopped drinking. And then over the years, like, I mean, not in recent years, but over the years, like, you know, maybe once or twice a year, I'd do it, remind myself how horrible this of a decision this is. It really is a terrible decision.

It's like a few minutes or an hour or two of like euphoric happiness followed by like 24 hours of, for me, soul suck. Do you ever smoke it? Do you ever smoke crack now? Yeah. See that's why I got to that and that was a lose. Talk about a losing proposition. When I would go home at the end of the night or in the morning after doing coke, never in my life have I been as close to suicide as that feeling. When I tell you depressed, if you want to make yourself suicidal, go out and do coke all night and go home at seven in the morning while everyone and watch all the people leaving in the morning to go do fun shit in the morning and you have to still go home and try to go to sleep, which isn't

happening. And you toss and turn and the sun's screaming through the blinds. Like, I can't think of a worse fate. Right. And then we sober up and back at it the next time it's around, which is the insanity of this. And look, I have friends in my life today that I would argue can still go out on a Saturday night, do a couple lines. Some people can do that. Yeah. I had friends that could do it. I couldn't. I couldn't leave until everything was gone. Right. And then when did you meet opioids? Like when did that? So then a few years after I was in New York,

I had like a minor ankle procedure and they gave me like seven. What's the year? I want to say 2000-ish. So the prescription drugs are kind of just come, like like oxygen. Like no one's talking about them. Like I was way ahead of the curve. Like I was doctor shopping before it even had a term. Like I was doing shit before.

Dude, I went into a pharmacy once in, LA with no prescription, nothing, and convinced the pharmacist to give me 20 percassette, no prescription, no nothing. And they were like, okay, I'm like, I'm traveling. I lost them. Yeah, okay, all right, here you go. You can be pretty convincing, Ken. I can't imagine, you know.

So I, the guy gave me seven percassette and then he would give me, for the next couple weeks, he'd give me seven a week. And then after like the second or third week, I would just change the seven to a two out of zero and like 20 was a shitload to me because I would take like two or three at a time in the evening only. Yeah. And then once I discovered like that I was hung over in the morning and if I took one or two in the morning, it kind of like made me feel awesome in the morning.

You know, and then I'd have to take them at lunch to avoid feeling terrible the rest of the day. And then I'd get home and take them as a reward for like, okay, I made it through the day and I worked out. Now I'm going to take these and relax. It was like a crutch until it became a nether. necessary. Well, I mean, that's the part of addiction that I think people misunderstand is that the drugs and the alcohol are the medicine. They work. That's right. They work for many, many years. That's exactly right. And I mean, that was my experience. I started doing Oxy and Perkinset at work and

I was crushing it. Yeah. It was like I was focused. I was awake. I was alert. I was, until I wasn't. That's right. That's exactly right. And were you training then? Were you? I was always in shape. Like I was, you know, I would train like crazy, but not, not towards any goals, just like I boxed a lot. So I box for the New York Athletic Club, so I would go to the gym, box for an hour or two every single night. Like, I was in decent shape, not like super fit, but I mean, I wasn't, I was never messy. And when do you meet Shelby? 2004 or five. We got married in 2007, so maybe like 2004. And you're already kind of, finding your way with the

with the opioids oh by the time I met her I'm like deep in the throes like I'm like 30 percocets a day easy um you know 80 milligram oxies if I could get them she had no idea

not initially eventually eventually she figured out like this guy's fucking crazy like something's going on so then eventually she kind of got a sense but never like the depths of it until until I like eventually told her when I got sober and your story is wild in the sense that there's no re you you was it cold hurt i mean you you how did you put them down well first i went in 2001 i moved to london and that's when i

realized how addicted i was because i didn't bring any with me and i was like went into massive withdrawals and had people shipping them to me from uh from boston initially and then i eventually found a doctor again being convincing found a doctor found a doctor in the UK, like I may have gotten like one of the first prescriptions ever of Oxycontin there. The pharmacist had to order them every time I went in. No one, no one was getting them like it was brand new. Oxycontin was brand new. Percocet had been around but the Oxycontin time time time time release was new. So I'd go in, they'd come in a blister pack and the doctor was, they did doctor calls. So I would call the guy to my office, tell him I've got this pain,

blah, blah, blah. And quickly I realized every time he came, he was drunk. And so then I started meeting him at the bar. I just give him cash for the visit and the prescription. And he'd literally write anything I wanted. At one point, he's like, I'm just going to write this for 120 oxies. And I'm like, dude, even I said, that's too many. They're going to like, it's going to raise a red flag. But it was crazy. So then when I was in London, after about a year in London, I just white knuckled it. I went to NA meetings, got sober, was sober for probably a year or so, came back to New York, started like, dabbling again and then right at that time was the time of the Florida pill mills and you could get like Vicodin and Lord Tab and shit so I had like you know ten different profiles set up online and I had plenty of money

So I was ordering online like 30 Lord Tabs from like a different Different online pharmacy every single day of the week so every day at my office like FedEx packages would arrive with the Lord Tab of Vicon and is there ever a Like, do you know at this point that you have a, that you have an issue? Or do the people around you know that you have an issue? Or what is the- People around me must have thought I was crazy, but I knew I had an issue because I had gotten sober, but I knew what I was doing.

I was like, well, I'm going to have to get sober again, but I just kept putting it off, putting it off. And around this time, and like, right when I met Shelby, I found out about sub-U-Tex. And once I found the sub-U-Tex, I'm like, oh, I'm good. I can get off this anytime, just using the sub-U-Tex. the subutex get sober be off for a week or two right back on for a month subutex and then it got to the point where i was using subutex for months at a time and i'm telling you for this i don't think this is talked about enough but that addiction to subutex and for some people methadone

they'll keep people on that long term but the thing is those drugs aren't meant for long-term use they are like uh they attach to like the same receptors as opioids but they're like like, I don't know, for lack of a better term, they're like stickier to the receptors and harder to get off. And getting off the subutex versus the Vicene, Oprecocin and Vicodin was much, much harder. I was down to like, dude, I'm telling you like half a milligram a day, like a crumb of the pill. The pill would be like two milligrams. I would talk like take like a crumb. The pill would last me fucking two weeks.

I couldn't get off that last crumb of subutex. So eventually what I did in 2010, a few months. For the listener, subutex or suboxone, that's buprenorphine, right? So it's a drug that is used in behavioral health care to help people either get off of opioids or they call it a maintenance program where you will stay on it long term. If it's used correctly, in my opinion, I don't want to like, I don't want to piss off any addiction. Doctors, but in my experience, you use it for seven days, get off to O. opioids and you're going to, there's no fucking silver lining.

Like if you're on drugs and you're physically addicted, you are going to go through withdrawals. At some point. And if you don't, you can, like they say, pay me now or pay me later, but everyone's paying. It's like taxes. There's no shortcut. You are get, I mean, I guess some people can do Ibergene now, but that doesn't sound like a fucking pleasure cruise of doing a day of like, you know, 24 hours. And I'm contemplating doing Ibergine, but.

And I've done DMT. I've tried everything. Like, I just want to be healthy, you know. And, but the subutex, if you stay on that stuff too long for the maintenance crowd, like I just don't, I just wholeheartedly disagree. Because eventually you have to deal with this. And I'm just of the belief, like, just rip the Band-Aid off. Do the seven-day taper with the subutex to get off the opioids.

And then just deal with the seven days of discomfort. So what I did was I went to a place here in New York called Parallax. That was great. It was in Murray Hill. And it's a 10, it's a. seven-day outpatient detox. So you check in every morning. They check your vitals and they give you your meds for the day.

So it would be like riddling in the morning. Some Xanax at night. But you have to go every day so they only give you the daily dose. So like, because of typical junk, you take everything all at once. But when you get to the point where you're at this place trying to withdraw as painlessly as possible, like you follow the protocol, at least for me I did. Right.

And then if you get to the seven days, you get Vivitrol, which for you, me was the life-saving drug. And Vivitrol is an opioid long-acting opioid blocker that attaches to all those receptors in your brain, and they won't let the opioids attach to the receptors. So you can try to get high,

you won't. You run the risk of overdosing because when you don't get high, you'll start like doubling and tripling up the regular dosage and it won't affect you. You might get sick. That's a big-ass needle. I was on the, I did the Vivitrol too. I mean, right in the fucking... Dude, the shot is like

the needle is big. and the gauge of the needle, like the thickness of the actual needle is like a nail because the drugs going in are a time release. So the drug is like encapsulated in this like, it's almost like gel. And the shot is filled up that syringe. Like it's a ton of, it's a ton of volume. And when they pulled that needle out, I'm like, dude, there's no way that's going to all go into my like muscle in one jab. But it did. And as long as you show up the next month to do it, you're going to.

Good. Matter of fact, a professional boxer heavyweight from Philly. I don't want to say his name because I don't know if he's talked about this, but he reached out to me, him and his dad, and he's like a legit, undefeated killer. And he was like going through it. And he was, and he was, his dad was asking like, what do we do? He's like, he's, he's getting sober. Like, we're going through the program, like the withdrawal program now. I said, you have to get to the seven days. And you have to be clean for seven days to get the Vivitral. It will send, it will send you into a precipitated withdrawal, which is a pain that you don't. And remind me to come back and tell you about a friend who was on mega doses of

cratum and they gave him the equivalent, the oral equivalent of Vivitrol that you take daily. And he out, dude, like thought he was going to die. They sent him to the hospital and like, no, no, you just didn't withdraw. I was like, tough it out. But I said, you know what, silver lining? Like you basically got like 10 hours of like rapid detox withdrawals and now it's out of your system. Right. That's, you know, when you think you're going to die, it's not so much.

fun. But I told the fighter end is that. I'm like, you have to get seven days clean. You have to get the Vivitral shot, but then you have to force yourself to go back every 30 days to get it. Because, you know, your brain starts to go like, okay, after 30 days, I can get high again and I'm completely clean now. Yeah, they're actually saying now it's more like 25, 26 days, you know, that it starts, you know, you got to stay on top of it. Because to your point, we've also seen overdoses because someone will do Vivitrol for one, two, three, three, four. four months and then be convinced that they are cured or healed, go right back to using the same amount of opioids that they were using before and they end up in six feet under.

I talk about this in the book, but I have a friend in Boston who was a raging heroin addict, robbed a fucking bank and went to prison and got out of prison, did heroin the first time thinking he was going to do his old dose and overdosed and died. Yeah. Like did like, I don't know if it was five years in prison gets out and, and, and immediately overdoses, like, this situation, this drug epidemic is not a joke. Like, it's crazy to me the emphasis that we're putting on all this other bullshit in this country when we have like this many people die in of opioid overdose every year. And it's like, you know, we're concerned about this minutia and bullshit all over the place.

Like, we should fix the biggest problems first. Well, the drug dealers keep moving the goalposts, which is part of the concern. I mean, the overdose numbers are down. Like, if you look at Kensington and Philadelphia, less people are dying. I don't know that drug use is down. I think that people are using different drugs, these tranquilizers and sedatives

that are not necessarily killing folks, but their quality of life is still. Well, Narcan's helped a lot too. Because, I mean, every junkie seems to have Narcan with them. Yep, yep. There's a way to reverse the overdose. So you eventually put the opioids down. and find you're married, the opioids are kind of down,

you detox it parallax. So how many miles did you run last year? Like, you run 10 miles a day, right? Isn't that kind of the deal? In the last five years, I've averaged right around 4,000 miles a year, which is 10.66 miles a day every day for five years. And that's been my, like, new addiction slash mental health, like, coping mechanism.

What do you say to the guy or the doctor that says, you know you just traded one addiction for another yeah one had me wanting to kill myself and one has me here like gaining attention for being someone who's disciplined and hardworking like i'll take this addiction any day it is an addiction yeah i mean i read i read some you know i'm like you i need to run i mean i'm not every day but i'm five to six days a week no doubt about it that a five to six mile run is the same as a 50 to 60 milligram hit of morphine i mean then like i get that because after There's no better feeling than after that run. Oh, yeah, but it doesn't hit until after you're done,

and then it's immediate and slowly tapers off just like drugs. But I don't get the feeling of like being high or completion until I'm like the second I stop running. But I don't stop until the work is done. Once in a while I'll have like a really, when I'm in really good shape and everyone's fitness journey is different. Like when I tell people I'm not in shape, they always are like incredulous. Like, oh, come on.

But there's a fine line between having fitness and being like ready to race. Like when I'm ready to race, like I'm on, I'm floating when I'm running, when I'm feeling good. But I still have shit days when I'm in training mode. But when I'm fit and ready to go, when it's time to really throw down, my body is going to respond. When I'm not in training and you tell me like, hey, we're going to do this hard workout. There's like a chance I might not be able to finish it just because it's like a, it's like a race. car engine, if it's not fine-tuned, it's just not going to run right and nothing is going to work. And same thing with like when you get to a certain level of fitness.

There's a big difference between being fit and being ready to race. Yeah. What do you tell the kid right now who's struggling with opioids and what do you tell the guy that reaches out to you that wants to get off the junk and use running and physical fitness to kind of do that? Like how do you incorporate that into helping people? Well, when people reach out and they're like, man, I'm going through this. And I'm like, listen, you don't need me or anyone else to tell you what to do. Same thing with someone who's overweight. You don't need anyone to tell you.

You fucking know what to do. The only question is, like, what are you going to do about it? And no one else can give that to you. You're in control of your own destiny. I was thinking about this day when I was coming down here. Like, if you don't, if you can reinvent yourself whenever you want. If you don't like your station in life, fucking shit. change it. We live in the greatest country on earth. You can do anything you want. I have a

sociology degree from Framingham State. I went to Wall Street and had some success there and decided I didn't want to, life isn't just about making money. I wanted to do other things and I did it. I don't know how if you told me, you know, any of the challenges that I've undertaken, when in the Gobi March in Mongolia, like I didn't think that I could. Which is 155 miles over what, six days or five Self-supported. I never ran an ultra. And when you tell me, I'm like, dude, I could never do that. When I saw Iron Man the first time, I'm like, I could never do that.

And then once you take the first step, you're like, you're on the journey. The hardest step for any challenge is taking the first step. Once you commit and take a step and announce your intentions, you're on the journey. And it's like, it's easier to just keep going. And you're going to get the tractors all along the way. like this kid, Truitt Haynes, the runner, Kim, Cam Haynes, son.

He runs marathons and jeans, and he's going to go qualify for the Olympic trials. On our run this morning, we were talking, I mean, I want you to share with the folks what you said this morning, because I said to you,

there's this guy Truitt Haynes, who you know, you know his dad, you've been on his podcast. He's an inspiring guy. I watch him. I say, this guy is young and trying to build a path for himself,

and there are people that are actively rooting against him. him. Yes. And he's got muscles. He broke the world record for pull-ups. He did like 10,000 and one pull-ups in 24 hours. Like, he's a freak of nature. And he's handsome and he's well-spoken and he's confident. And I was saying, like, it's funny to me that people seem to be rooting against him. And I'm like, I'm like, why the fuck would you root against him? Like, if you ask me, okay, you got to make a bet, can he run a 215 marathon? And I love the guy. I'd be like, I'd probably say no. my brain would, but my heart would say, dude, I hope he can do it because he's never focused on just running. He ran a 229 at CIM this year. I ran 229 there. I ran 228 there.

To go from 228, a 229 to 215 is crazy. But it's also crazy to do 10,000 push-ups, pull-ups in a day. There's a young guy, too. He's young, yeah. I know we like to, like I'm 42, you're 54. or we like to think there's no, you know, such thing as aging, but. But the fact that people are rooting against them, like aggressively shit, talking them online, I said to you, like, it's so much more fun to be supportive and be like,

dude, you can do it in watching someone crush their goals versus rooting against them. And I don't know what it is about social media or about this mindset. About this mindset of like, fuck that guy. I hope he fails. Like, there's people. not only do they not think he can do it, that's fine, cool, but to voice your almost like displeasure, like how fucking dare you say you can do this?

He's like, I didn't say I did it. I said this is my goal. I have a goal. If someone told me they had a goal of winning the goal be March with no experience at all, I didn't even know what the race was, you'd say, you're an idiot. There's no way you can do that. And I would have said the same thing.

But then I showed up and did it. And, you know, and then, They'll say you're crazy and stupid when you announce your goals, and then when you achieve them, they'll tell you you're lucky. It's the same shit over and over. And all I say is like, if you're a grown man out there on the internet, trolling and wishing bad on other guys, like, fucking check yourself. I catch myself doing it.

I'm like, fuck that guy. He can't. And then I'm like, what do I care about this guy? It's an easier way to live to root for others. I mean, 100%. This guy running a 214 or a 213 or qualifying for an Olympic, you know, qualifier has no impact on me. It doesn't affect me at all.

No, I'd be happy if he did it. Just going to root for the guy and, you know, people want to sit out there and say, oh, he's not all natural or whatever. Like, to your point, they're going to, at some point he's going to be drug tested.

So why don't we just let the process go and, exactly. If you don't think that he's all natural, like if you qualify for the trials, I promise you, you're getting drug tested into like, announce he's going to do all this stuff and then qualify and then get tests negatively.

Like, it's just so stupid. stupid like the kid's not a dummy like if he says that he's clean that he's a natural athlete then of course he is i don't know that's my belief is like hate culture's wild man it's crazy it's like they people want to tear down other people especially when they're doing something that they can't conceive of doing themselves and everything's impossible until someone does it but i don't know i'm going to interview him uh feb 15 when we're down in austin texas for my podcast but i'm looking forward to talking on. And by the way,

kid couldn't be nicer to me. Like, I've talked to him a few times on DM and he's like, just a completely kind, um, humble kid. He's just comes across on social media. They make his JV cross country team. Yeah. Now he's out there like crushing other people. Yeah. So good for him.

Yeah, he's cool. Good for him. So before we, we, we, I want you to tell the story of your kids because that's a crazy story of. spiritual story. But before we go there, I just, the Kratum thing. We talked a little bit

about this offline. You know, I just released an episode a couple months ago or a month ago around Kratom and you have some personal experience with Kratom.

And some, I guess, ignorance or just not knowing, right? I mean, what can you share as someone who is very aware of what you're putting in your body? A few,

maybe two, three years ago when I was hosting the fight with Teddy Al we had a sponsor feel free. And I was like, what the fuck is feel free? Oh, it's Kava. And it's got Kratem.

I never heard of Kratum. And I was like, what's Kava? Oh, it's like a calming, all natural plant-based thing. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, what's it all about? Like, I'm thinking it's like a medicinal, like I genuinely thought it was like a good for you beverage.

Right. And I'm like, wow, I do feel kind of good. Now, I feel like a fucking idiot saying now that I'm like, How did I not pick up on this? And, you know, it's like any, it's like any addiction. Like I take, I would take them in the morning before I'd run. I'm like, wow, I feel pretty good with this stuff. Was it similar to the opioid high?

No, no, not like, you're not like, whoa, I'm high. Like, yo, this is awesome. It was very subtle. And I was like running well on it. Just like, you know, an opio would give you a little bit of a boost in small doses. And then if I took a second one, I'd feel a little bit nausea. and stuff later in the day. And then eventually, I adjusted to like two of those a day.

Like anything else, your tolerance starts. Yes. And I'm not even thinking about it. I'm just like, wow, I do feel a little boost of energy. I literally was like, oh, this is like an all natural energy shot. These things are awesome. They were available everywhere. And they were paying us to run ads.

I was fucking recording ads for them. I'm like, here's what I do to feel free, like, you know, reading their creative bullshit and you know I don't want to blame other people but the the people that were market like dude the the feel free has like big institutional investors it's like the thing makes money and I just didn't put two and two together until it was too late and I remember I ran out of them and I said to my wife like yo see if you can find some feel free there's like a vape shop down the road see if you can find one she went in there and they were like oh no we don't have we're out of feel free we sell a lot of them but we have this other um more

concentrative one like MIT something something and mitrogen is kind of the active ingredient in cratum which is what's producing this feeling for you so the con yeah so they had another concentrated version and those were awesome i'm not going to lie like i felt awesome but i also felt awesome when i take fucking huge doses of percocet and oxycontin cheers even then it took me a little while to realize like yo i can't really stop taking these or i feel like shit. And before I knew it, I was like, oh my God. I'm like deep in the throes of an addiction to the stuff.

Then, of course, I reluctantly, I was avoiding doing the research because I knew something was up. Yeah, that first Google search you were probably like. I was like, you stupid motherfucker. I've never even talked about it. I've been so embarrassed. Even my wife's like, how many of those fucking field freeze are you going to take? Like, I looked that up.

You know, it's not good, right? Especially for addicts. And, yeah, sure enough, I found myself deep in the throes of this fucking thing. And it was like not easy to stop because the thing that made it hard is the withdrawals weren't like opioids. They were a lot more mild and subtle, which made it a lot easier to just carry on because you're like, I can stop anytime. Like the most naive. The brain tricks you with like any addiction. It's just crazy to me that this thing is legal because I know what I'm doing.

I knew what I was doing. I knew what was what had to be done to address it. But I feel bad for the people that don't know. I think that this could easily be a gateway to a serious, like, opioid addiction when, hopefully when they outlaw this, which is definitely going to happen. I think the creatum addiction is serious enough, you know, because people are using creatum to get off opioids, right? And so in theory, you're putting down one thing.

This is what I do. I actually believe you're putting down one thing and getting addicted to the other. And to your point, like, it's going to become an expensive habit. It's going to start to rule your life. Psychologically, you're going to need to have, I mean, you're asking your wife to drive down into Nashville downtown to a vape shot to go find, create them for yourself because you're going to get sick otherwise. Yeah, and when I asked her to do that, I wasn't like sick.

I just didn't feel good. Right. So, and I, again, when I asked her to get it, I didn't realize like the extent of what it was. I hadn't done the research yet. I just knew, oh, shit, I had a box of fail free in there out because they were sending them to me for free because we were running ads for them. And now when I hear all the talk, I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be a problem for people that have no experience with drugs. It's like what I said about guys discovering coke later in life.

So I'm at the airport a couple weeks ago and I'm sitting across from a guy who's from New York who moved down to Nashville just randomly and I just, I forget how I knew him or he knew me from social media. So he's like, hey, what's going on? And we're talking. He's like, yeah, he had a family business and he had a dad who was super successful, life of the party, like really like gregarious guy. And he's like, yeah, I had a heart attack recently. So I'm like, oh, it sucks and he died. So then we're talking more. And he's like, yeah, man, listen to this.

So he starts telling me he's like whacked out on fucking like seven crateum things a day of the concentrate. Yeah, the 708. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The gas station heroin is what they call. Big doses of that. And he's like, I'd never done drugs in my life. I had no idea what I was doing.

So I went to an addiction doctor. And they gave him the oral equivalent of Vivitrol. Not Trachshone. Just completely naive and not knowing what they were doing. And they send the guy into fucking rapid withdrawals, like serious withdrawals. He goes to the emergency room. Thinks he's dying.

Thinks he's dying. And he tells them what's going on. And they realize, oh, he's just in withdrawal. They're like, you go and just hang out here. Put him on an IV. And he's like, oh, help me. I'm dying. I don't know what's going on.

Someone who doesn't have experience with addiction and doesn't know what's coming. It's scary. It's like, you. you think you're going to die. And he's like, they're not doing anything to help me. And I'm like, you're a drug addict in withdrawals. You should see what they look like when inmates come into the prison and they're on heroin and they're like, okay, you'll be in here until you're done detoxing.

And you're like, dude, I think the guy's going to die. They're like, no, no, he's just withdrawing. And so then he was telling me, yeah, when my dad died, we went through his stuff and we found cases of the 70H concentrate shots. It's like... Is that I'm drinking it? Dozens of them a day. Gave my heart attack.

I don't know that that did, but it certainly didn't help. Yeah, I mean, like you're checking out at a 7-Eleven these days, and it's right there. So if you have any curiosity, if you have any curiosity, you can grab it, and it's, you know, it's up there with gambling and all these other things right now that are just going to kind of rip through until legislation decides to do something about it. Yep. So... I'm glad you got off that shit, dude.

That's crazy. And I know it's not easy to share some of this stuff. I feel like an idiot because I know better. No, well. So before I let you go today, I want to, you know, I feel like I know you pretty well. And one of the stories that always stuck out to me was, and this is more of a life story, was at some point,

I guess it's 14, 50. How old is Tensei? 15. Yeah, so 15 years ago, you and Shelby are trying to have kids and it's not happening I mean tell the story you basically go or she goes to go adopt

a child and then finds out on the way home that she's pregnant yeah we get matched with not being able to have kids yeah well they never said you can't have kids they couldn't figure out what was going on neither us had any problems all the metrics were good I think it might have just been like crazy anxiety and pressure

which sounds crazy because I was like don't be ridiculous I'm a science guy I'm like, there has to be something. So we were always going to adopt anyway. So we started the adoption process and that just happened first. So when we went over to get her in Ethiopia, we were there together for one week in early November. And then I went back at Thanksgiving.

So Shelby stayed there for two months with custody of Tensei because we adopted her in the court and then it takes two months to process the paperwork so she can leave the country. And you have the option to leave the children at the orphanage in Addis Ababa. but it's like an orphanage in like basically a third world country. Like if you had your own baby,

you wouldn't leave a newborn baby if you had the option. And we had the luxury of Shelby not having a work. So Shelby lived in a guest house in Addis Ababa for two months with custody of Tenze, which was an adventure in itself. And after a few weeks, she's like, man, I don't feel good. Can you bring a pregnancy test when you come? And she had been pregnant three times and had miscarriages.

And we had gone through seven rounds of in vitro, Like, we'd done everything. And like, at this point, I was like, I don't even want to waste the money on a pregnancy test. What's the difference? Like, if it happens, it happens. So, anyway, I take the test over. She takes tests. She's pregnant.

And then she came home with Tensea on December 18th and was pregnant with my son, Jack, who was due roughly on Tense's first birthday. And then he was born like three weeks before her birthday. So at one point, at one point, we had children that were five, four, two, and newborn. 5, 4, 2 and new. It was crazy. Looking back, I'm like, I can't even believe how we did this. It's just overwhelming.

But the lesson, and I get being a science guy, but at some point you guys made this decision to let go and just let it happen. Soon as she had the baby in her arms, she got pregnant like the week that we got there and adopted her. Like she was conceived that... In Ethiopia? I mean, is that?

Yeah, had to be. Right. Because we were there and like we went down to where she was in an orphanage and stayed in this like resort area. It was really nice. But when we were not a subaba, when we checked into the guest house where we were staying. Because the other thing is they didn't want like white Westerners like staying in the high end hotels with, you know, newborn Ethiopian babies. It just, they didn't like the optics of that. So they kept us in this like guest house.

And I mean, we get to the guest house and it was just a box spring, no mattress on the bed. Unbelievable. Like a hard box spring. No mattress. No mattress. just crate nothing like you know egg crate thing I end up going out and buying an egg crate thing at a store in out of Sabab it was crazy and then the next two kids no problem no problem every two years so all the kids birthdays are within like five weeks it's wild so you go through

in vitro you go through all these processes you go through the adoption process you question whether you're going to be able to have kids naturally and then you adopt this child she ends up being pregnant the next two kids yeah know it that's yeah when from like like zero to like abundance. That's wild. And that was kind of before in vitro, right? I mean, like this was like, I mean, in vitro, obviously there's a lot of people out there going down that path these days. No, we tried it seven times and it's a pain in the ass.

They got to do like multiple procedures and egg retrievals and egg insertions. It sucked. But it's funny when she had the kids, every kid was like an adventure. Like Jack was born in the middle of the night. We had to drive up to, or we'd take a cab up to Washington Heights to whatever hospital's up there at the base of the George Washington Bridge. And we're getting the cab at like 3.30 in the morning and we're like, hey, take us to this hospital. Yeah, we're having a baby. The guy's doing like 120 on the West Side Highway. I'm like, buddy, first things for us. Let's get there alive. The next one was born, was born at St. Luke's. We lived on 59th in West End Ave. And we walked to the hospital when she was in labor on 58th and 10th.

So I got a picture of her walking up the hill from between West End Ave, between like 10th and 11th and stopping and like leaning on a wall because she's having contractions. And then three days later, picture at the same wall walking, pushing the carriage with the baby. That's amazing. And then last year we were in the city with the kids and we walked past there. So my wife is posing there with their hand on the wall. And with my now like 10 year old son, or no, 10 year old son leaning next to her. like then and now before and after. It's very cool.

You talk a lot about family on social media and your experience as a father. Anything, I mean, you said something on our run this morning, right, that they don't tell you really how hard it's going to be. Oh, it's the hardest job ever. It is because it's like so emotionally trying. Like, you know, my oldest son is 14 and he's like constantly trying me. And it's like, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, It's like normal natural behavior.

Like think about, I look at those kids sometimes, and I'm just reminded of like puppies. Like they do, or animals, they have animal instinct behavior. We all do. And they're like roughhousing and clowning around. And I'm like, guys, someone's going to get hurt and someone gets hurt. And I'm like, it just reminds me of like dogs when they're like, you put a bunch of puppies and they're all jumping all over each other. And I'm like, it's very difficult. So now my 14-year-old son is getting to that age where he's going to like try the boss.

Like he's going to like try the alpha of the pack and like, you know, basically start barking and snapping. And I'm like, it's, it's, it just takes all my patience to like be the mature adult in the room and not like ring his neck. And I tell my wife, I'm like, you have to get between us. Like, I'm going to crack his ass if he keeps doing this. And that's not what I want to do. I don't want to rule by intimidation or anger or or frustration. We have needs too. I think that's part of the.

And I don't have kids, but just as an adult. when I find myself retreating back to being a kid, it's when my needs or expectations are not being met. And then there's like this emotional kind of freak out. And then the hangover from that is the worst. The worst. That's it. It's like you're trying to do everything right.

And then when you make a mistake, at least for me, I find myself falling into like a spiral like shame storm where I'm like, why did I do that? And I'm beating the shit out of myself for not doing everything right. That's the hard thing with children is because, listen, if I make a mistake in work or I snap at someone or I do something that I'm upset or embarrassed by, I can just turn around and fix it. When you snap at your kids or like get aggressive with them, like too aggressive, in my mind, I'm like, I can't undo that.

They're like emotionally scarred for life, which isn't necessarily true either because they're resilient, but that's what I feel. I'm like, oh my God, I've like completely ruined this kid for life. Now he's going to have trauma regarding my behavior. And then I also remind myself, like, I'm there. I'm doing everything. And I try to like, I have like real conversations with my kids. I'm like, guys, like, I've seen them.

I'm out here doing this. I'm trying to do this. Recognize when I'm doing this and you come home and you just like leave all your shit all over the place. I'm like, that means that when I'm done taking care of my stuff, we all live here. Now I'm going to clean up your stuff too. Does that seem fair to you? Not only did I provide all the stuff, but you don't even want to take care of it. you know and then I'm like

oh they're kids they're just figuring it out but still it's like that's why you know I don't know how people have kids unexpectedly and have a good experience like when people are like oh shit my girl and my wife's pregnant I remember when I was high school

I remember when I was high school a couple in high school had I mean that kid is 24 years old now I mean it's wild even when you want kids desperately like it like you want to like as much as you want to live you want these kids it's still like oh my God this is so hard So if you weren't like planning on having this and wanting this like your life dependent on it

I can't even have the challenge imagine the difficulty in challenge especially like you see a single mom that maybe has like two or three kids maybe two or three dads and you're like that struggle is real man and I give a lot of credit to any single moms whatever however they became single whether they were divorced had kids out of wedlock whatever the case of that is it's hard moms are heroes I mean it's hard it's hard I don't think I appreciated that job until later in life. It is hard. I mean, just running a house. Running a house is a hard job. I don't, that was not advertised to me growing up. I run a, I run a small little apartment here in New York City, and there's times when I walk in, I'm, how the hell did this place get so dirty?

Yeah. So it's a, it's a tough job. You've lived a huge life, dude. What is, what is on the docket? What is next for Ken Rod out? You got the book, the other side of hard. Everything you want is on the other side of hard. Yes.

Like you got to preface it. And that comes out in a few months here, which we're going to help promote and read and get out there to our listeners. I know you're going to do the Austin Half Marathon with us and the foundation in February. What else for you this year? Any fitness goals, any life goals?

I think I'm going to do the high rocks world championships in June in Stockholm, Sweden. I've qualified for that and signed up. I just got to like get my head into that because that's a super hard challenge. other than that, like all the emphasis has been on the book. Yeah, the book and parenting. Just the kids are at that age now where when I look at my daughter, I'm like,

oh my God, she's going to be driving in the next couple of months here. And then she's going to be gone. Like when I think about it, it makes me super emotional. And sometimes when I talk to her, I'll be like, can you believe you're not going to live with me in three years? You're not going to be here anymore. And I'm like, it's really hard to deal with. Because at times I'm like, oh, God, someone take these kids for a couple nights.

But then when I think about them leaving, I'm like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? Last question. Before we leave, I asked a different version of this earlier. But what is, can the one thing that you would say to the person who's looking to make a change in their life, whether that's substances or a weight loss, fitness, whatever journey they're deciding to go on. Because you've done that a lot. And you're an expert in that. The only person that can help you is you.

Stop looking for external validation and external guidance. You can look at other people's journey as motivation, but everyone is unique. Everyone's different. No one can tell you anything about yourself other than you. And the only person that has to believe in what you want to achieve is you. And it sounds corny and cliche, but it's the truth. No one cares. No one cares what I do at the Austin half marathon.

No one cares about whether I win the age group world championships. But if you go out and set some goals and achieve them, watch how much everyone starts to care. And it's like anything. No one's going to come and celebrate with you and share for you and do anything until you've already won. So stop looking for people to support your journey. Like, if you have five people in your life, that are supporting your journey, you're lucky.

And sometimes I have to tell myself, like, oh, everyone's rooting against me, and I have to create villains to motivate, but it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is your own reality and your own success. And I would just say, do it. Like, you know, and they say in recovery, like, if you want all your dreams to come true, you have to get sober. But once you get sober, watch all the dreams come true. I mean, look at me.

I was a dead dog loser drug. drug addict, living the most mediocre of lives. And then I took control of everything, got sober, and things started to fall into place. The one thing is for sure, all the fitness goals and all the other goals that you might have, none of them happen while you fucked up, period. Right. I know that for sure. Well, brother, I love you.

I appreciate your time. I'm rooting for you. You know, I'm rooting for you always. And, yeah, first of many conversations, I am sure that we will have. I'm looking forward to coming on your show. show and watching that thing grow just like everything else you touch in this life. Ladies and gentlemen, Ken Ride Out. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, brother. I love you.