The Zac Clark Show - Life After Loss: Amanda Kloots on Grief, Faith, and Finding Love Again

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Broadway star, TV host, and entrepreneur Amanda Kloots was already a public figure, but when she began sharing her husband Nick Cordero’s battle with COVID-19 in the early days of the pandemic, her openness struck a deep chord. Through daily social media updates, she gave the world a raw, real-time look at love, loss, and resilience—bringing the often private and painful experience of grief into the open to help others process their own. Since then, she has continued to be a beacon of hope and healing, using her platform to spark important conversations about moving forward after tragedy.But in this episode, we go beyond the story many already know. Amanda shares how losing the love of her life has changed her idea of love itself, and what it’s like to seek new connections while carrying the weight of that experience. She opens up about the complexities of dating after loss, how it affects potential partners, and what she truly wants moving forward. She also reflects on the ways her faith carried her through unimaginable loss, how her relationship with spirituality has evolved, and what it means to surrender when life takes an unexpected turn.Zac, Jay, and Amanda dive deep into resilience, healing, and learning to embrace the next chapter while honoring the past--a conversation about faith, hope, and finding light in the darkest moments.To learn more about Amanda's new wellness supplement brand: https://properhealth.com/pages/about-properConnect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right, today's guest, Amanda Klut, is an inspiring one, former Broadway actress, a TV personality, and an entrepreneur. She also has a real story to tell. She lost her husband, Nick Cordero, during COVID, and she very publicly brought us along on that journey. I'm excited to talk to Amanda today and grateful that she had an opportunity to join us here in Vegas to discuss grief, trauma, and life in general. I hope you enjoy.

All right, so welcome back to the Zach Clark. show we are blessed grateful inspired to have Amanda clutes with us today who needs little introduction she also has a flight to catch so we are being mindful of that and before Amanda says hi I have to be honest I'm a little I feel a little bad because we just did this talk on stage here at the conference that we're running as a part of our my company released recovery and like you were so honest I made you cry yeah I don't want to make you cry again he made me cry um but your light is bright like that's that's my biggest takeaway from meeting you like this morning and into that talk like it's cool it's cool to watch i hope you i hope

you know that thank you that's really nice of you thanks for having me guys hi hi and this is jay i'm jay yes i'm just want to echo that i feel like you're so open and warm and just meeting you feel like i know you and like you're really who you are you know so thank you Thank you. So a lot of what we talked about this morning was obviously around like the way that you grew up. And your, the really like the thing that stuck out to me if I could is your ability, and I relate to it

because I've been able to do it, to use your experience and this thing that no one would wish upon you, right, to really inspire an entire country and an entire world really like in the middle of this pandemic as you're losing this man who you who you love um so i i asked it on stage but i just want to i want to kind of like start there um or maybe we should set the stage a little bit for people because i don't want to make make a make assumptions so it's you meet nick in 2017 right nick is her husband who she lost during we get married in 2017 i met him in 2014 okay

13. In a Broadway show. You guys were actors. You're working in New York. You both doing Broadway. Friends first. I was married at the time when I met him. Yes.

Yeah, we were friends first. And you're like living your dream together in New York. It's Rockettes. And then you go on and you're in the show. And you're like you're doing what you feel like you're meant to do, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Being on Broadway was a dream since I was in sixth grade.

And I was going on my. 15th year of Broadway, film, television, that New York City performer life. Yes. Well, Jane is a lot. Things popped in my head when you met Nick on the, because you're, you know, you're doing a lot of shows, productions, you meet people, you have to play roles. Yeah. You know, love interest.

When you met him, were you like thinking this could be a problem? No. No, no, not at all. Uh-uh. No, I thought he was nice. I thought he was tall because he was 6'5. You have good height too, though. I'm 5'10.

You got a great height. Thank you. But that's why I was like, he's tall. Because you don't meet many men, especially in musical theater that are 6'5. So, yeah, I just was like, oh, I just remember being like, he's so nice, what a nice guy. And we were doing the reading of Bullets Over Broadway before the actual show comes to Broadway. So it was like a very small, intimate group of people. And I knew that Nick was kind of like a nobody actor taking,

like they were taking a chance on him because Bobby Con of All had played the role that Nick was now playing. And so they were really like, you know, so it was, it's always fun to see like somebody get that kind of chance in life. And I had worked with Susan Stroman, who was the director of Bullets Over Broadway, many, many a time. So being in that room was like, oh, you know, this is my, my routine. But I knew for him that it wasn't. And he was just so nice and so kind to everybody. But yeah, no, no romantic interest at all. Wow. Yeah. Cool. It's crazy how those things happen. Yeah. But then you, so you, and then

you, he basically, you moved to L.A. Yeah. Like you moved to L.A. begrudgingly, he wants to go back. Was it home for him? No. He, um, is Canadian. He grew up in Hamilton, Ontario. He, he He had a music calling. He was a music guy his whole life. He used to be in a band in Toronto. He wrote songs. Lyrics were all in notebooks everywhere, unfinished music,

unfinished lyrics everywhere. And he just was like... That's like every girl's dream, right? Come on. Except when you're 40 and you just had a baby and your husband says, I want to move to L.A. to pursue a music career and not act anymore.

And you're just like, oh, wow. Was that out of nowhere? I mean, decision to go all in? I saw it coming because he was having one of those seasons where you just can't get hired for anything and auditions and he comes super close to something and then doesn't get the job and I saw him spending more and more time on music and I think his idea was I now have

a son. I have to have to have something more consistent in my life that will give us, you know, some backbone, some meat to our bank accounts. and he was hoping he'd write music and get it in commercials or television shows and that that could be some sort of consistency between acting jobs. But he was done with Broadway in a way. He really wanted to just go to L.A. and make music. And you talked about that though, Broadway, right?

Like, it instilled this resilience. And I have friends in New York that have been on Broadway for many, many years. And they're all chasing a dream, even though they're living their dream. Like, it's just life that it's hard to explain almost. It is. I mean, it is. It's so wild, and it's beautiful in a way because the more time you spend on Broadway in the community, in a way, the easier it gets, because you start making these connections. It is a small world.

Directors just ask you to be a part of things that end up being on Broadway. Choreographers love you. They want to reuse you. But in the beginning, when you are fighting for jobs and you don't have an agent, you are waiting in like three-hour casting lines. You might not even be seen. you get cut immediately or you have to sing eight bars instead of 32 you've prepared 32 they hand you sides out of the blue I mean like it is such a mega mix of every day who are you what can you do now you do this now do that now do this don't do that and you're just constantly living

that life you know you're just it's wild cattle call grind yeah really yes and it's the thick you start building the thickest skin you know and still to this day I think like I really I feel like I have really thick skin like you really can't really tell me anything that's going to hurt my feelings I tell that to people all the time like just tell me be honest like you won't hurt my feelings and I think it's because of Broadway it's like you're too tall you're not tall enough you're too blonde my last girlfriend's name was Amanda I don't like the way you smile I don't like the way you dance I don't like the way you sing too high I mean like you just get so used to everyone like making fun of you telling you you're not good enough that you just start to be like

well well maybe again a lot of ways too like and we and i want to dig into this but like when the social media thing kind of popped off you were kind of ready for i'm sure there were haters and trolls and people that you know i get it now when when i started understanding what social media was especially around covid and with nick and everything that was such a love fest of people just being the kindest most amazing people in the entire world i see sometimes i see it now you know, or when I started dating again and like things like that, people started to get nasty and mean. And that is when I hate social media because I hate when people judge what I'm doing

from their couch when they've never even met me. They don't know my heart. They don't know who I am. And you're sitting on your couch judging the things that I do. And it just, that's when I'm like, oh, guy, I don't like social media. We can trauma bond over that one. Like I just, I still like, I, like, there's a certain degree of it. And I'll never forget this one.

So my sister, you know, so I told you, I was on the Bachelorette. And so, like, people get to know your family. Like, it's just this weird thing, right? So my sister, like, has, like, a micro following, but she posted a picture of, like, my nephew, like, newborn, like, whatever. And someone went on there and basically was, like, you know, crackhead uncle, like talking about me. Oh, God. And it was just so terrible. And it jammed my sister up.

And I had to explain to her, like, this is. there's like people out here that live like this because she couldn't understand it yeah my favorite thing to do in those circumstances is like right to that person and i usually within a couple of exchanges get them to apologize and say you're absolutely right i'm so sorry i don't know why i thought that about you and i'm like it's okay god bless you oh wonderful day see that's well you you said something i'm a silence guy i'm like a come on restraint but maybe that's the approach I should try. Well, that seems a part of like the way your character is. I mean, when you guys were doing the talk and you were talking about being jealous, you went towards it. Yeah. And I've only

had one other person in my life, you know, look at it that way where it's like, how can this be a value to you, not like push you away? Yeah. Where does that come from? I guess it would just be how my parents raised us. And again, like just instilling us the foundation of, you know, when you think about like the foundation of church and religion i mean that's all like love one another how you want to be loved and and and god is love and respect and you know those kind of traits i think just were ingrained in us as kids and um i that's the only thing i can attribute to because it's unique yeah i don't know i don't know but yeah the jealousy thing that was hard for me to do though that was not easy that's amazing i was so jealous of this girl yeah

Yeah, you've been through a lot. So just setting the stage because I'm not going to, I don't like when people assume that people know you or your story. Like it's, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there. You move to L.A. in 2019 with Nick. Everything's going well. March of 2020 COVID hits and everyone in the world is blown away. What's going on? I mean, like it's just, and again, I'll try to get through this quickly because I know you already told this story once.

but um what what kind of happens there i mean he gets tired like can you share a little yeah he so he got sick very early on march 19th of 2020 so this was like when we were all like oh i guess we should really pay attention to what's going on and um and eventually we had to take him to the er and then once he was at cedar sinai er he got admitted into the hospital right away quickly into the ICU he couldn't he was having respiratory problems and then and then he just he never left it was 95 days in the hospital and every possible thing that could go wrong just kept going wrong and you know I kind of learned that you know you when you're in the hospital for that for that length it's like certain things will get better but then other things fall and so you never really climb the hill to

you're going to get out of here. It's like you're staying at this plateau that sort of eventually just starts to fade off, which is unfortunately what happened with Nick. And then, yeah, he passed away after 95 days. But when he first, when you first went into the hospital and they discovered it's COVID, are they saying, listen, we don't really know what this is right now, but he's young, he's healthy. Yeah. No preexisting conditions. He'll be okay. Yeah. And he'll be okay. Yeah. And, he was. He was doing absolutely fine. The first six, seven days he was in the hospital. They had him on the hydroxychloroquine, which now I don't believe in. But at the time, again, it was what was being, you know, saving people. And it was the wild wild best, we did not know. But he was getting

better. He got actually, the COVID, he ended up testing negative after like a week. And he was literally, you guys, they were, I was on the phone at the hospital and they were like, we think we can take him out of his coma tomorrow and he'll be in rehab in a couple of days, probably be in rehab for maybe like five days to seven days a week, and then he'll be home. And I was like, okay. And then that next morning, when I thought I was getting a phone call of, we're going to take him out of the coma, they said that he died that evening on the table. He got a fever. His heart stopped. They resuscitated him. His life is. minute to minute they're putting him on an eczema machine he might not make it um and i was like

what what just happened um and that was a hospital infection and sepsis but it was just all caused by what covid did to nix lungs and he also had pneumonia when he went in and so it was just you know it just started the storm basically yeah and i won't yeah i'm just sick 95 days in the ICU yeah Well, there was some good that came out of this whole terrible situation. And one of those things was at some point in this journey, you made a decision that I talked to a lot. So like, you know, look, my life is based around my recovery. I'm very open about my story. I really believe that everything I have in this life was given to me because I got sober.

I mean, that's just the truth. I wouldn't be here. And I share that openly with the world. It's the one thing that I will let people in. on and because I believe that if it helps one person, like we did our, we did our job. And at some point during this journey, Nick's journey, we'll call it, you decided to kind to turn the phone on around and you were doing your fitness thing and took people on this journey with you.

Can you talk a little bit about that decision, why you did that, like what it was like to go from, you kind of had this like viral community growing around you. Yeah, I did it because I was online every day doing workouts for free for people at home during COVID. And I'm a very sunny, bubbly person, especially when I'm leading a workout, I'm even more because I love fitness so much. And but then I would turn the camera off and I was calling the hospital, finding out about my husband. when Nick got when I got that phone call about he died on the table and and things went from oh he's going to be okay and get out of here to he's not okay and things just went south is when I was like I can't I can't keep doing these workouts knowing that like I can't live this double

life kind of thing and so I just decided to tell my social media following at the time, which was around 50,000 followers, what was going on. Also because Nick was 41, no pre-existing health conditions, basically no symptoms up until like the day we took him into the ER. His symptoms was that he was sleeping all the time. So I just also looked at it as if there's anyone else at home who's 41 and perfectly healthy and sleeping, you know, I don't know. Remember where we were at this time in our lives. We were glued to the news. We were told that any, if you were older getting it, um, and that if you were a healthy person, even if you got it, you would be okay possibly. You know what I mean? It was really like 60s and 70s like, you know, and so I, watching Chris Cuomo

sweated out in his, in his basement. Yeah. So, you know, we were just, I just felt like it was important to share that my husband is not okay and he is not any of the things that they're saying on the news. So what now, guys? And that's kind of. how it started and then it because it was such a snowball effect at the hospital it just it just became this like i don't know this this this other component of my life that kind of well ended up saving my life at the time too but just kind of started it started unfolding because it was just so loving and supportive and and and and you felt held yeah i started so nick was a musician he wrote this song called live your life and um it's all about well

the song is actually about a relationship where two people are like, this isn't working anymore. Let's go live our lives. And we love each other. But like, and if the stars align, maybe we'll come back together. But at this point in time, it was like, it became this anthem of like, life couldn't be very short. We don't know now, of course, with COVID. Like, live your life. Like, do the things you want to do and like, and love the people that you should love and like hold them close.

and don't let, you know, stupid things take over your life, like live. And so I started sharing that song and asking people to sing with me every day at 3 p.m. And then that became like this wild phenomenon every day at 3 p.m. I had the world singing his song with me. And his dream, one of our biggest fights before he went into the hospital, he said to me, he was like, I want to be a rock star, I want to go on tour. And he was like, and I was like, what are we supposed to do? Elvis and I, like, what are you?

talking about. And we had two dogs at the time. And I was like, we're getting all in a van and go across the country so you can play your songs. It's like, what? I was like, you just moved us to California. What are you thinking? And he was like, I don't know what to tell you. I want to be a rock star. And the man died a rock star. The world was singing his song. It was being played on the radio every day. It still is played on the radio. He died a rock star. Unbelievable. That's a blessing. See? That's a blessing. Well, that's my next question is in these moments where is your where is your spirituality where is your god what do you it fluctuates i mean my my spirituality and and god and faith never fluctuates that's always that's been a part of me

since i was a very very young girl um and it still is there i think the amount to which i pour into it changes um and it's i i actually you know i felt so close to god at that time in my life. My whole family did. I had the world praying for Nick, the world praying for me, people saying I'm an atheist and I'm praying for your husband and your family. I felt that power of God so much. I actually like miss it. Like there's there's like I miss feeling that close to God. Like I think again, when you go through these times in your life where like nothing else matters and you're clinging to your core beliefs in who you really, really are, it's like I'm sure with addiction, you might have a day where you get on your knees and like, God, I'm done. I don't even

know who I'm praying to, but I'm done and I need your help. It's like when you, yeah, it's like when you're at that moment in your life, you never feel closer to what you believe in or what you don't believe in. And I don't know, I just, I guess I thank God, because like I thank God for being so close to me at that point in my life. I could have never gotten it, gotten through it without him, ever. Well, you put this community around you or God did and, and, and, and, and this love and these people and I believe that stuff you know man like I I I very much had that moment in my life where there was it was very different for me because I was very alone and I was very hopeless right like I was I was self-destructing in a lot of ways people would look at me and

say like he's never going to figure this out like what is he doing he had it all he's burning it down and that's where I think there's this ultimate like the ultimate surrender which is really I don't know. Yeah. I just don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right.

And I said this in the talk at that moment. That's when I literally just said to God, this is your decision. I can't heal him. And the medicine is doing what the medicine can do. But if it's his time, if you want to take him because it's his time, then they will be done. I believe in you. I trust in you. If this is your plan, this is your plan, though.

No, that was, that was, that was, you never had moments. That was in the middle. That was in the middle. But did you ever have, like, did you ever question that? Did you ever, were you ever like, why would you put, I, you know, why would you put me in this situation? Yes, up until that moment. So that, that moment, they brought me into the hospital that morning.

And they were like, he will, he'll die in two hours. Like, you should say your goodby's call, who you need to call. his mother who was in Toronto, see if there's any way that she can get here or not. We can try to keep him alive as long as possible, but he's going to die today. And I went into the room, and he was gray. I mean, like, he looked like death. And the numbers, you know, when you're in the hospital long enough, you start to understand that your life is run by numbers when you're on machines.

And based off the numbers, you know what kind of day it is and how much longer you have. and his numbers were so low. I mean, like, literally on death's doornail. And I sat by his side, and I put on Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace, 10-minute version, where it is a live version of her singing in the church. And you literally feel like you are in church. It is insane. And I blasted it, and everyone had finally left me alone to, like, say goodbye.

I blasted it, and that's when I said to God, take him if you need him I said my goodbyes in a way and I was just crying and praying over Nick and he lived for 40 more days after that yeah in fact the next day I had him opening his eyes looking left and right and the doctor came in and was like he was supposed to die yesterday and you have him looking up down left and right on your command and I was like yep yeah I do That's incredible. So I'm at, so I want to, you've been very gracious with your story and you've been very gracious kind of doing it twice.

I want to move to. But do you ever get tired of talking about it? Do you ever have days? You're like, you know what? I mean, that's what I'm like, I don't want to be. I'm like, I don't like. I mean, it's a good question. Yeah.

I mean, like, I don't want to be the grief. You know, I don't want to be the Nick Cordero story. You know, like, you know, I'm. Yes. Yeah, I do sometimes. Yeah. I do. But, you know, to be. be honest like you said every time every time i think we share our stories it it does help somebody

and it and it also helps me like you guys the last like month i've had like such a grief spiral i it's like wild and i was i literally like felt so bottomed out again like i was just like how can this still be hitting me like this we're almost at five years and then i was like it's this going to always be like this like I'm just never going to get stronger in this way and um and so i do feel like when you talk about it you release it and and sometimes you just need to release it and um but yeah i mean it's hard it's hard like having grief be your like thing that you you know talk about all the time it's not the easiest subject to talk about yeah i mean so strong and then like day 96 after like that's when the healing journey you know begins you know what I realized

the healing journey started the second they called me and said he died on the table and his life is minute to minute that's when I started grieving I didn't realize that until after until months after he died but I'll say this is where I was lucky some people get a phone call and say your husband was just hit by a car and he's dead and they have no they have no they don't get to say goodbye right i started grieving the second i knew that his life was on the line and i had 95 days to prepare myself for that and especially within the last month where it was really looking like there's no possible like at the end i was like he's gonna i mean i never gave up but i was like he needs a double lung transplant a kidney transplant like i mean like he was going to be like a robotic man

at that time, you know what I mean, if he could even survive. And so, yeah, I started, I started, I was lucky. I got to grieve and say goodbye to him for 90s. What was your relationship to COVID after that? Like, did you, I mean, like, I can't even imagine. Did you get COVID? I ended up getting COVID in February of 2020, 21. But not with, not with, not when he got it. No. We were living in a small little cabin me Elvis and Nick I was sleeping in the same bed as Nick the whole week where he was just tired never wow and Elvis was too basically as I was breastfeeding I would bring him in the middle of the night and he would just end up sleeping with us we never got it yeah yeah I know I mean thank God because what would little Elvis have done you know what I mean like thank God but so crazy

my relationship to COVID oh it still to this day is such a challenging one I hate when people fun of it. I hate when people act like it didn't exist or doesn't it doesn't matter. I hate when people joke about it like I got COVID. It was just like a cold. Good for you. That's you're so lucky. You're so lucky. Million people died from COVID. So you're very lucky that you didn't have any symptoms. I'm so happy for you. A lot of people didn't have that. It's like when Donald Trump said that not to get political, but that like threw me, you know, it, it's, still to this day it hurts it does it really hurts even the vaccine stuff i know there's a lot behind it and things but like it's hard because you know i when i got the vaccine i just it was so

such a weird thing because i was like if nick could have had this it could have made me it would have saved his life you know what i mean like so it's it's just uh it's a touchy subject i think for me still. Well, I mean, that's just to shift gears. I mean, like, I guess my next question would be, what has your experience been in helping other widows, you know, or helping other people who go through the same thing? And what is your relationship to grief? I mean, we had a, we had a grief expert on, I don't know, about a year ago on the show, and she was incredible. And she had a lot of like very strong opinions about grief. And one of the questions I asked her that kind of like had its viral moment on Instagram where people like still commented on

today was I said um you know there's people that might say that a breakup is is just as um could be more painful than than actually losing someone because like that person's still alive and obviously for you this hits in a different way but watching people argue both sides of that was was very interesting um it was just just just was obviously can't bring folks back but um what is like yeah what is your relationship to grief how are you supporting other other folks who are widows or is there a community still going is that yeah my um which one do you want me to answer first i'll start off with the widow um well i i absolutely love meeting widows and and widowers my my first like steps into healing was talking to

widows and widowers. And ironically, the first one that called me was Katie Couric, who DM'd me and said, I would love to chat with you. And I was like, oh, my God. And then when she called me in her voice is undeniably Katie Kirk's voice, I was just like, oh, my gosh. And the way she talked and how she completely understood my pain, but was also years out, but she lost her husband when she was 40 with two kids or, or,

or Jay, I think, was 40. So she knew my boat. Like, she has stood in my shoes. And she, I just saw, like, a light in her, like a possibility and, like, this friend. And so ever since she did that, I just felt like it has been my mission to also, like, reach out to widows and widowers when I can.

And I love it. Like two summers ago, I started this thing where I would, a lot of widowers reach out to me. And if they were in the L.A. they would sometimes be like, would you, you know, want to go get a cup of coffee with me? And I was like, let's go on a walk. Like, let's just go. We don't, who wants to drink coffee?

Right. You're just going to sit there and cry. I'll probably start crying. Our coffee's going to get cold. People are around. You're embarrassed that you're, you know, let's go on a walk. So I would meet them in this area in Beverly Hills that I love that's flat because I like walking in flat.

I'm not a hiker. And so, um, we would meet in this area and I would walk up to the, like, welcome to your widow walk and I would smile and they would laugh and hug me and I know that I can do that because I'm the only one that understands I can say that to them and and then we would walk for hours and we would cry and we would laugh and we would talk about our husbands and we would talk about our families and whatever else and we would leave each other and I have so many friends this day just from taking them on widow walks that's I'm smiling as you're telling these stories because that is what recovery is.

Yeah. It's like that is what we do. Like only I know the pain that I experienced. So then that makes me uniquely qualified to go out and help the person coming in. Right. Right. And when you said like,

like you heard the, you saw the light and Katie, like when Katie Kerr called you, like you felt the light, you felt the hope. Like that is my place in the world when it comes to the recovery community now because like when these people come in

and they are hopeless, they don't actually believe they can heal. Like at that moment, you didn't, and all of a sudden you're on the phone with Katie Kirk and you're like, oh, my God, like there might be, I might be able to get through this. You also see the process of healing in someone else. Yes. And then it, like, at least in recovery, you know, watching other people change, you know, I realize the change that I've undergone, you know.

And so it gives you hope, but also like information. Yeah. this is possible because I feel like with grief, people think of it as this static weight. Yeah. And when we had that expert on, she was very much like, no, it is a active thing and it never goes away. Yeah. And they're like, like you just described, you had a couple months where you were in a wave. Yeah.

Right? You don't know why it just comes. Yeah. And you need to move with it. Yeah. Otherwise, it will get sick. Yes. You know that there's like that, I don't know if you ever seen that picture of the jar.

with the ball inside the jars and it's like it starts off with a jar the jar size never changes it's the ball size that changes but grief in the beginning is like a big ball it consumes the whole jar and then like over time you see the jar stay the same but the ball get a tiny bit smaller but like it's basically that like it doesn't ever go anywhere it doesn't leave the jar it's just you learn how to grow around it so the ball gets the ball actually stays the same size too you just learn how to grow around it and give that grief space and you know that you learn how to deal with grief but like gosh what was your second question it's your relationship i don't know that that the answer was like enough like it's just like it's just when i saw you and that's like i've been on this bit recently just watching

the world you know like just watching the world and and i i believe so deeply that like in my community much like you have your community like the world can learn so much from like when I walk through those doors into a meeting or a place where I'm going to gather with other people who had that same experience as me like politics, race, religion, creed, like all that stuff goes out the door and we just treat each other with kindness, love, and respect. And that's like what you've experienced. Like these people like reach out to you and it's like you're going to reach out your hand because you've been there. Yeah. I mean, it honestly, like I saw a friend post about somebody that passed away like this week, a young man. I think he was 39 years old, brain aneurysm in the gym, just dead immediately.

Like, out of nowhere, as a brand new baby boy six months old. And I saw my friend post about this, and I literally sent her message. I was like, how do I reach the wife? I need to get to the wife. Like, it's like, now it's like a, I know, and I know she's not ready for me yet, and she may never be ready for me, but I want, I like, I want, it's like this weird, like, I'm sure you guys feel it too. Like, you just say, I want to help you.

I know I can help you. Right. I don't even need to say anything to you because sitting by you are going to understand our energy matches. Like we're, I, I want to, you know. So, yeah, it's just that weird, like, I have to help. I have to be there for that person. Because when you know how low that is, it's like you don't want anyone else to feel that low. No.

Right. It's like a, and if you can do anything to help them, not feel that low, you're like, I got you. I can do that. Right. Or I can try. has has lost changed your ideas about love yes oh my god yes i yeah i it's yeah how just because like i think again we take so we take our people for granted like nick and i could fight we would fight a lot he was latino and i'm just stubborn and so we would just fight you know um and when i

fight. I don't make up right away. I like to ruminate for like three days and then I slowly come back and love you. And now I just look back at all of that stuff and I'm just like, God, it was so stupid. And I know you have to fight in relationships. You know, you don't have to, but it's inevitable probably. But like, just, I just want to, I want to like wring my neck sometimes about like the stupid things that we would fight about. And the wasted time. Yeah, like just wasted time and like things that don't matter like I can't wait to like love again so that I don't make those same mistakes like I'll be interested to see if I can really implement what I've learned I hope I can so you're open to that you're looking to I am yeah it's not easy in

LA yeah and for you it's harder I mean look I've done a whole thing like you know people have somewhat of an idea of who I you know like it's just like it makes it harder to like really Then, like, you question, do they know me? Do they know my story? Are they, like, have they, like, read about me ahead of time? You know, like, it just, I have, I share a lot of compassion for you. Can I ask you a question? Or both of you, actually.

When you are in a relationship. It's about time. I'm, like, feeling like, I'm, like, interviewing the interviewer. I'm, like, I'm, like, garbling out these long questions. It's just like, the first one or the second one, like. Okay. When you're dating somebody new, yeah. How long do you think?

think they should wait or or maybe that's not the answer but or I guess do you get offended if they don't ask you about that dark part of your life so do you know what I'm saying do know what I'm asking you yeah so for me I'm kind of so the question I get a lot is is like is people that are newly sober are worried about telling someone that they're dating that like they're an alcoholic or that they have it right and so like there's a lot lot of work done around that for me at this point in my life and pretty much for the majority of my sobriety it's been my job too so it's like if I'm sitting down with someone at a dinner or to get drinks I'm like I'll have a club soda yeah and then like the next question's like what do you

do and I'm like oh I work in behavioral health care and they're like they like put it together pretty quickly so it's almost like a joke for me but for a lot of people like what I what I say is like that's your story to tell because your story is story story to tell and and and tell it when you want to tell it. But like, but if your person never asks you about, like, okay, I get it. I'm putting those blocks together. But like, but they never ask you about like, but no, take me back. Like, Zach, they might not be your person in my opinion.

I don't, I don't think it's your, here's, here's, here's, because I have seen a lot of people who are older looking like Zach who's 41, you know, looking for, not old, but you know what I'm saying. I'm good with 41 being old, dude. I feel great. But it's not, it's not old. But, like, people who, you know, there's all this pressure in your 20s to find someone, meet someone. If you're a woman, have a baby, if you want to have a baby. And so when you're older, but, like, one of the things that I've realized, because I was, I've been married now for eight years, is that I know so much more about myself now. Yeah.

Now. Like, I know what really, like, there are questions, and thankfully it's worked out for me, but there are questions that if I was dating someone right now, right away, I would say, do you want to have kids? is this a problem for you? Right. And I feel like knowing that information and knowing the kind of person that you are, you really can not waste time. Because if that question is coming up with someone,

then like you said, I don't think they're the right person, especially knowing from the little I know about you and how open you are and just like genuinely empathetic and kind. It's like that's the person where you're going to, and it's just not going to be a question. You're going to crave that.

No, listen. I crave it. I mean, I'll speak for myself. I'm not going to tell you what you, like, I, I, listen, it's weird because I, and I get it, like, it's, it's, I was married, I was happily married and, uh, and I lost my husband, right? So I do understand how if I'm dating a guy, it's probably a weird thing to either bring up. I don't want to make her sad or a weird thing of like, uh, I don't know, maybe like, maybe some guys have like a weird jealousy issue, which that's weird because like he's not coming back. A grown man's going to hold it for you. And a grown man, you're going to see the way he walks through that and not be jealous and not, like... Do you bring it up?

I, I mean, it's kind of impossible for me not to talk about, like, grief or, you know, being a single mom, especially, too. Like, I guess this is coming from because I have a good friend who we sit and chat all the time, like that we just have great chats. And he consistently has asked me about Nick and about grief and about life. And I looked at him the other day, and I was like, do you know you're the only man in my life that asks me these questions? Men don't ever ask me this. And he was like, well, he said he was like, that's because they're trying to sleep with you.

And I was like, well, I'm just letting you know, like, it's so, like, I love talking to men. Like, thanks for talking to today, guys. I love men. I love men's energy. I love your opinions. I love it. And so, like, it's just, it's always, like I just said,

I was like, thank you. Like, thank you for asking me this stuff. Because, like, I do need to talk about it. I want to talk about it. But no one asks me about it, unless I'm, like, doing a grief podcast or something. Yeah, but that's not, I mean, like, I'm genuine. Yeah, I mean, like, look. One, thank you.

And, and I want to be mindful of time. How much time do we have? How much time do you have? Because, like, probably. Well, I'm at, I'm at that. I mean, we probably, really? How much time do you? I mean, your fight.

I don't have to be at their portfolio. before right okay okay oh good so all right no we have like 20 more minutes at least no but like even with like the relationship with god you know like which i'm assuming is a is a critical thing if someone is is are you are you when you're dating someone are you looking for people who you know from here's the funny thing both my husband's atheists yeah but here's a thing where they know they were i'm an atheist yeah so they have a relationship with god they just don't believe it right Yes, that's the thing. Well, Nick was spiritual.

He, I mean, well, both, they weren't, they were definitely more atheists than, than believing. But Nick was spiritual, but didn't really believe in, like, Jesus and all the things that I believe in. But you knew that information. That's so interesting. I knew that information going in, yeah. So you asked that question, or you guys got onto that topic, and then you had the ability to make the decision whether that was something that was going to be a non-negotiable or not. Yes. Which is beautiful.

You know what, though? Like, do you think about this? when you're in your 20s, which is when I first got married, like... I have one of those, too. Okay. You know, like, and now, and then my 30s, when I second, my second marriage, I feel like now in my life, in my 40s, like, I'm looking for, I am looking for a lot of the same things, but also, like, a lot of things have changed.

Like, I don't necessarily need to ever get married again. So, like, if you're not religious, like, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't need to get married in a church or I don't need you. to help me raise my son, I'm fine. Like, I don't, I'm, you know what I mean? Like, I would love for somebody to help me, but, like, I don't need you to be a dad. You know what I mean? So, like, I don't need us to have the same faith about, like, how we're going to raise our child together. Do you know what I mean? Like, so what I, yes, it would be lovely to date a man that was like, let's go to church. I'd be like, wait, I'd faint. I'd be like, what? But, like, it's not necessarily

something. It wouldn't be, like, a non-negotiable for me, just because I'm at a different stage in my life, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, so look, look, I think, and I might get some shit for saying this, I don't really care. Good, good. Most guys are not, like, willing to evolve. Like, most guys are not, like, that's why we're seeing in our country that, like, there's just loneliness epidemic amongst men.

Like, men are scared to talk about their feelings. Men are scared to get therapy. Men are scared to get vulnerable. It's obviously something I care about deeply because it's my greatest strength. Like, I'm willing to do that. And so I would just want to. instilling you like some hope that there is a man out there and it might take some work that is evolved and is going to be able to hold that space and and is not going to like

is going to love you even more yeah for how much you love and honor Nick and and understand that like love is not mutually exclusive yeah to one person I hope so because I you know I feel like and I'm sure you guys seeing this too like that changed my life it changed my life it changed who I am. It changed how I think. It changed everything about me. I'm a completely different person on the other side of what that was in my life. Like, if you don't ask me about that, if you don't ask about the lowest parts of addiction and how you, how you rose up from that, how are you ever supposed to get to know who I am? You know what I mean? Like, you're never going to get there. When you question this, when is that coming up? Is that coming up after the first

date, the third day? Like, when are you like, all right? I'm saying like three months in. a guy still won't ask me about like oh man that is like listen that that's you being like listen this is what happened to me and i'll see you later you know what i mean like because because what the what the fuck you know what a three months the other thing i'll say too is like the tree in the forest like i'm telling you like you will meet the right man and and you just will i like because and the thing that people they give up it's scary uh i i said thanks guys i'm so hopeless right now but that's No, but you will because they exist. Like, like, and I agree with you about the men, the men suck kind of thing.

I mean, obviously we don't think men suck, but like, you just have to keep going and it's, it's hard. But like, you are so ready and open. I don't know if you're, but you're just, you're open. No, I am. I am so ready. That's, I think, what's really frustrating. That's crazy three months. Well, but no, let's like, let's give a man a benefit of the doubt because I do like to do this.

I like to flip the coin. You're dating a girl. And you know this part of her story. You guys are, you know, you're still in this honeymoon phase of, like, really liking each other. You're probably getting to that, like, we're exclusive, you know, we're boyfriend and girlfriend. Like, I imagine it might be hard to be like, well, will you tell me about what? I don't know. I guess it's not hard, but like.

I think it's for me, I mean, part of me is like my cards are always on the table. Like, I'm guilty about the overshare. Like, that's just kind of whatever. to people that I'm comfortable with. Do you think that's because, though, you've been through life? Because here's the thing. I want you to know, because if you're going to judge that, then this isn't going to work. Right.

But that's because you've been through hell and back. Well, that's, yeah, it's helpful. I will say trauma does make you an interesting person. My sister and I... And I'm not the easiest. I know that. I'm not either. No one's easy.

My sister and I say this all the time. she'll be like, if I'm going on a date, she'll be like, oh, good one. She'll be like, and I'll be like, he's divorced. And she'll be like, good. And he lost his mom. That's great. He knows grief. And he knows what it's like to lose a love.

This is great, Amanda. This is good. It's like the more hits you can have in life, the better. Bring me your baggage. What baggage do you have? Let's unload it together. Well, you probably find that when you're dating at an older, you know, the older you get, you know. But like, I just think, like,

it's not that it is it's not that it defines you but it but it's a part of you you know so exactly and that's just the thing yeah and there's also like I think you know as as we get older like everyone at this table is over 40 years old you know like naturally we've had relationships and we have these life experiences and we've been intimate with different and like so like all of that stuff comes up in those moments and it's like you can't avoid it no you can't avoid it And if you try, it just hits you, like, a ton of bricks one day at some point. But do you feel like when you met Nick? And I'm curious, too, like, because when I, I knew my wife for a year, like, I was very close around.

And I knew, and then there was a day when it just, I was like, aware of her red shoes. And I said, oh, she's the cutest thing ever. She's cute. And then, and then it took off. And, like, I never, I never wanted to bring. I wanted my parents to meet her. And I knew everything about her so quickly. Yeah.

And maybe that's like my problem, like being too quick into things. But I also just knew that like I was having an experience with someone that I hadn't had before. And I just feel like not only have you had that experience before, but you're like ready to have it again. Yes. And that'll happen quickly. This is my problem though. I tend to do this exact same thing, know somebody and just be like, like I, my, both of my relationships were from Broadway shows,

work environments where you're just working with somebody every day. And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, is Nick cute? And they're like, he is cute. And then all of a sudden, you're like, why do I like Nick? And then you're like, all of a sudden, done for it. Nick and I had that exact same thing. We were at a bar one night after the show. We sat down at the bar together.

The whole cast was there. And we started talking, I was telling him about my divorce. He started talking to me about a next relationship that he had. and it was as if time stopped and no one else was at that bar. We were like locked in with each other for what seemed like, you know, four hours. And I left the bar that night going, oh, no, I think I liked that guy. And it was over. But that's why, like, that's why adolescent relationships, like, well.

You say they're the best? Yeah. Well, they're okay. But, like, that's why the divorce rate's so high because people meet in high school or meet in college. And then they start to evolve as humans and realize they don't actually like each other. You know, they don't take the time to actually make sure it's, it's right. Like, my best friends in life, they're all married to their high school and college sweethearts.

Like that's just, and because to your point about, like, working with someone, like, you spend so much time with them that you really get to know them. Yes. Yeah. I think that if you get married young, I don't know if it's that they don't like each other. It's just that, like, think of how much you've changed from your 20s to your 30s to your 40s. It's like I'm three different people in those decades. I am a completely different person in each of those decades.

And if I was still married to my first husband, I got married to 25, like, for us to still be married together would mean that we would have to have re-learned to love each other every season. So you got married in 2009 or 10? 2007. And then 2017. So maybe 2027. 27's that year, guys. You got time. I get married every 10 years.

When did you get married? He was married. 2009. The weekend MJ died. I always say that. I say it too much. I remember that day. Like Michael Jackson?

Yeah. I mean, the wedding had amazing music. I mean, the whole weekend was just an MJ dance all. Oh, that's amazing. I mean, that does get everybody on the dance club. Yeah. Yeah. So two things I just want to like kind of circle back to.

One was I want you to acknowledge what you. you said is like you really don't need another human like you said like you don't need someone to raise your kid you don't need someone to help you find it so like you have the luxury of like I do finding the right person and then and then two and then you can go because I see you like going yeah well I hear my wife in my head right now the second part is like you said like the only time you talk about that like this is on a grief podcast I like to think this is more of like a hope podcast right like you know seriously like I didn't you know what I mean I do a lot of podcasts about grief and that's tough yeah and so like i do want to pivot to just like at some point you can

ask your question go ahead it's just a thought it's just a thought because i hear my wife being like this is how fucked up america is like you are a 42 year old 42 you know beautiful successful woman who feels like do i have to like how can i how can i talk about this with other men and like questioning things and it's like people should just be lining up you know and i know i'm not I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. I'm just saying like, you know, it's like my wife, we're always talking about like in movies where it's like this beautiful woman or successful is with some like unattractive like dumbass and you're like this is what people think is reality, you know, and it's just, it's hard. It's hard to be a woman. It is hard to be a woman. Sorry,

that's me on my soapbox. Thank you. It is hard. Nice work, Jay. Thank you. I want to be a woman is what I'm saying. You do? I'm making that announcement right here right now. I want to I want to be a woman. Okay. Oh, gosh. I love you, Jay. I'm sorry. Jay and I met Jay like on like, you know, day one of my sobriety.

And he's been, yeah, so it's cool. Can you just share quickly just a little bit about the healing journey since to give people some hope that it, I mean, yes, there's some lows, but there's also some highs and maybe the role of physical fitness has played in that. Yes. I mean, the good thing I think about a healing journey is that it can be many, many, many things, you know, from things like just connecting with widows and widowers, such a huge part of my healing journey when you talk to somebody who understands that pain and can really communicate and be there for you and you know they get it, you know, that is, that is, was extremely healing. physical fitness healed me through my divorce and it proved again to serve me when I was losing Nick it is my go-to mental health stress anxiety relief right now I'm super into like going to a fitness class

because I like to be surrounded by people and I feel like if nothing else that's what I did today you know what I mean like you feel like you're somewhere you're actually are but you know what I having people around you, that motivation, you know, just, but moving my body, putting loud music on and just letting yourself drift off for an hour, you know, or whatever you can give yourself, get that oxygen going, get that oxytocin going in your brain. It's so important. I always say, I really know when I'm really depressed, if you see me at like four fitness classes a day. You know something's going down. You know I'm not my best. But it really, like, that's my go-to. Like, I'll just work out.

And then, yeah, I've tried everything from energy work, Reiki, meditation, yoga, needra, and then into psilocybin, ketamine therapy, talk therapy. I've really done it all. And I have been scared to do many of them, but I've also, my motto in that is if I'm 1% better when I'm done, I'm 1% better than I was before. you know like I've done some crazy ones where this woman was rubbing me with chocolate and not kidding you and telling me like rubbing my shoulders feeling where the depression and stress was and then jumping up and telling me I needed to put a chair across

my room and speak to young Amanda and tell her everything I'm feeling and she was like you don't like your mom and I was like what are you talking about I like my mom what's happening and then she would rub me again with chocolate and then she'd get up I mean, like, I've done wild, wild things, but ironically, I've learned something from every single one of them. So I would just say, like, my healing journey has been long, and I know it's not ended. Like, I know there's more to come, and I'm excited for that because I, it's been a time in my life that has caused me to try to heal. You know what I mean? Like, if I wouldn't have lost Nick, I would have never tried to go into myself and figure out what, you know, what's hurting and why.

And I think that's really an important thing to do. You know, as we get older, as we raise children, as we, you know, fall in love again, you know. So you really got to go in and understand who you are. So done it all. White chocolate. It's like super moisturizing. Like it's like weird white chocolate, like raw white chocolate, but like super moisturizing smells really good. And it's like when it goes on your body, it like it becomes as oil.

Like a stick. It's weird. She was cool, though. She was Egyptian. Really cool woman. women are more like more willing to go in you know it's like that whole thing that we talked about earlier too so you would have done it eventually I get it I mean I tell my guy friends a lot of times like I have a lot of guys that are you know struggling with depression and stuff and I'm always like you got to do it this energy healer and they're like I would never do that and I'm like why I'm improving I'm telling you it works like it works you know what they have to do go find someone else who's anxious and depressed and has recovered and talk to them about their experience yeah call me. You know, like, that's the real, that's the real, like, that's, you know.

It's true. I don't know. But, um, all right, tell us what's next. You got the book. You got the show. You got the medium show. Like, yeah, I got the supplements. Yep, yep. Your moments of not being humble. Tell us. Oh, my gosh. Well, I would say if you want to watch me on television, uh, on Netflix, live from the other side with Tyler Henry. I'm the moderator for that show. We do that every Wednesday, but it's streamable. So all the episodes are on Netflix. Um, and I just started my, uh,

First Supplement Company, which is awesome. We launched with five superfood powders that you can mix with water and smoothies, and they just give you, like, all the delicious things that you should be putting into your body and one little scoop in your moment of self-care for the day, if that's nothing, if that's all you do, you know. What's that called? It's called Proper. Proper. Proper.

I have that name, proper. And so that's been like, that's been the latest, too. But we'll see. We'll see what comes down the pipeline. This show on Netflix is with a medium. Yeah. Yeah. Which was the crazy, which we, yeah, we kind of got the story there.

Oh, you did? I wasn't there. You weren't there? No. Oh, I mean. She channeled it. She, like, was taking her son to a bunch of Kings games and saw Tyler Henry, and then all of a sudden interviewed for the thing, and it was Tyler Henry.

Yeah, and it was his show. But I kept passing this Tyler Henry sign every time I was taking my son to Kings games. And I, you know, obviously when you have somebody, that you'd love to hear from that's dead on the other side and you see a medium poster you're like that'd be interesting one day i've heard he's the best of the best and um and then i auditioned for this show with tyler henry and i was like wait oh i know who that is yeah that'd be awesome and then i was like wait i really want this job and he's he's he's amazing it's you know mediums they have a lot of you know, a lot of believers, a lot of skeptics, a lot of, you know, a lot of believers,

but he's the real deal, super genuine, kind, kind man. And what he offers to people on a weekly basis, this comfort and his healing, it's so beautiful to witness. And I've never been read by him, but I've been read by other mediums that have offered me the same, you know, things that no one else would know, things I've never said publicly. And it's just so nice, like, because when you get that information, you just feel like, okay, he's here. He's, he's, he's in a different realm, but he's with me.

He's watching me. He sees me. He sees Elvis. He is. And, yeah, it's beautiful. It really makes you feel like, okay, I can keep going. Yeah. Keep going.

Keep going. Well, you've been very, like, time is very valuable. You've been very gracious with yours, so we are grateful for you. And I have a feeling we made a first. friend today this was fun this is fun safe travels and we just appreciate you coming on thank you guys thank you all right