The Zac Clark Show - Love, Loss, and TikTok: How Jack Ciapciak Turned Grief into Connection

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

In one of our most heartfelt conversations yet, Zac and Jay sit down with writer and grief advocate Jack Ciapciak to talk about love, loss, and healing. Jack opens up about losing his fiancé – also named Jack – just days before Christmas 2022, how it shattered his world, and how he’s slowly been rebuilding. From his years writing for the TV show Blue Bloods to the unexpected power of sharing his grief journey on TikTok, Jack brings honesty, humor, and hope to a topic so many avoid.We talk about internalized homophobia, what it means to truly love and be loved, and why grief isn’t something you move on from – but something you move forward with. Jack shares the story behind the viral video that changed everything, the community that’s grown around his vulnerability, and why he still wears his fiancé’s bracelet and watch every day.Grief cracks you open and reshapes you in painful, unexpected ways – but there’s beauty in what remains. Jack’s story is a reminder that healing doesn’t mean forgetting. It means carrying love forward.This episode is for anyone who has ever lost someone—or loved someone deeply.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right. Welcome back to the Zach Clark Show. I'm really excited to be here. Jay. Are you excited to be here? I'm excited. I got a lot of questions. A lot of things we could talk about. Maybe things that people wouldn't expect. Good. Good. Well, we have Jack. Chap, Jack. Yes. Did I get that right? You did with us here today. And Jack. What's the worst pronunciation of that name you've ever heard? I get a lot of siapsiac. Yeah, I get a lot of weird things. I just ask. You do ask when you don't know how to say something, do you ask or do you embarrass yourself? Yeah, a lot of people ask, honestly. yeah which i appreciate it's good yeah and jack is a special human he endured tragedy which we're going to get into but has used that tragedy to help others and heal others and in a way of speaking about grief very openly and honestly which i appreciate because all

humans whether we realize it or not at some point in our lives are going to experience loss and so we're going to get into all that what were you guys talking about before i got in here Well, you know, a lot. Jack and Sarah, our producer, Sarah, Prasmark, they met at NYU, and they both met through Greek life at NYU. And I was just saying that, like, Greek life at NYU is sort of an oxymor. You just, you know, that's not what you think of when you go to a school in New York City. Jack, am I right or wrong? No, you're totally right. But in defense of Greek life at NYU, it's a way to build community and make it more of a college experience because NYU is a place where you could live in an apartment and go to class

and, you know, that's it. So it gave me community there. Here's the truth. This is what I've learned, 41 years into this life. All the people that I thought, would they call you, Sarah? Losers? Yeah. I want they.

All the people that I would have dubbed losers in my 20s in college. Right. Actually were the ones that had it figured out. Like, there was this kid on my baseball team that didn't drink, didn't party, didn't smoke, and he was so good. Yeah. But he was kind of like, and he knew it. And he was also Mr. Team Captain, go to bed early, and I'm out there, like, partying.

These assholes, like, you know, but like, he ended up being an All-American and I ended up in rehab. So that's that to say, you know. Right, right, right. And we're also talking about that Jack is a writer. He's written many years on Blue Bloods. What did you do on Blue Bloods? So I started there as an intern, actually, in college and worked my way up as a writer's assistant. script coordinator and then I was a staff writer and worked my way up to a co-producer by the final season. I wrote 11 episodes. Oh, wow. And I loved it. I'm sad that it came to an end. Were you ever on? So you don't remember me from Blue Bloods, so you're saying? I'm sorry. Wow. Which episode?

I don't know, man, but you don't remember. I think it was like, it was in 2014. Okay. I started in 2016. It was. Jay's got, I'm sorry I missed you. I'm sorry too. It was terrible. What was your movie? The movie that I was in? Yes. Born guilty? Born guilty. I've been, I've done several movies, but born guilty was the one where I was the lead and really carried it.

And the LA Times called me a poor man's Adam Sandler. That's amazing. Yeah, no, I have it on my wall. No, I don't. But it was amazing. But it was fun. We need to dig into that more at a time with Jackson out here. Maybe it's just me and you because I want to, I want to, you took us through some of the

bed scenes that I think are very fascinating. Like, I've always been curious if. you know you're it you're sex on camera yeah like if you're attracted to the person that you're supposed to be acting with and something arouses is that legal or like what do you do you just well i will say and you can speak to this too that things have uh dramatically changed you know the presence of intimacy coordinators like there are people now who are hired to help choreograph these scenes and make sure that both people feel very comfortable i mean in the old days it was just like let's fucking go and depending on who the director was or

where it was like there was some there's crazy stories that uh but it's much different now got it all right jack on to you more more importantly can you introduce yourself tell us who you are absolutely yeah yeah so um i grew up in st louis missouri came to college at n yu and i've been in new york now 14 years um i met someone right after college his name was also Jack. We were set up by mutual friends. And we were together for seven years. We had gotten engaged. We were planning a wedding. And on December 22nd, 2022, he passed away suddenly. And it devastated me. You know, it rocked. My entire world fell apart. And so the last two and a half years, I've been slowly rebuilding my life and trying to process my grief. And I turned to TikTok a few

months ago in January and of this year of this year yeah yeah so I kind of I hit a point in my grief where I felt like I was it had been two years people were checking in less and you know when my mom would call and say how are you doing I knew if I told her I was having a bad day it would ruin her day and I started to feel like a burden to my friends and family so for some reason it felt easier to go on TikTok and talk to strangers about how I was feeling so one day on a walk I randomly posted a video called it Daily Thought on Grief and just shared how I was feeling that day and I did that for a few weeks. I found some other widows and widowers

and got up to like 500 followers and was just enjoying it. It was making me feel less alone and it was nice to talk to people who had similar stories. And then one night I put up a post about Jack, my late fiance and about the bench I dedicated to him

in Hudson River Park, which is where we had gotten engaged. And I went to bed and then I woke up the next morning and it had a million views. And it just continued to snowball from there. So it's been incredible, and I'm getting to share him with so many people and talk about him. And I've heard from so many people with similar stories. And it's just been really comforting and amazing.

And I never anticipated it to have the reach that it's had. But it's really, it's been awesome. But you did the round, like, how big did this video, you know, what was the response? You were everywhere with it. Yeah. So, yeah, it got up to like 12 million views. And I got to go on the Drew Barrymore show. Nice.

You know, the bench that I dedicated to Jack, I included a quote from a movie that she was in, never been kissed. The quote was, find out who you are and try not to be afraid of it. And Jack loved that movie. He loved Drew. And that's how he lived his life. He always talked about how once he came out of the closet and started living authentically, everything in his life fell into place.

And so when I was first looking for quotes for the bench and reading all these grief quotes, they were all kind of sad and depressing and I thankfully I thought of that quote from that movie and it just felt like the message Jack would want the world to see when they saw his name and yeah so it got to Drew Barrymore and I got to meet her and that was incredible

and yeah the response has just been amazing so Midwest St. Louis yes end up here in NYU are you out in NYU in college or when do you yeah so I came out the end of freshman year. Okay. And I say that at NYU, it's not only accepted to be gay, but it's kind of expected. Right. Okay. You know, so, but it took me, you know, like a full year of college to come to

terms with it myself. And I grew up in a, you know, very Catholic, conservative family. And but still, I think I always knew that my parents' love was unconditional. Like, I always knew that my family and my friends would be supportive, but I hadn't accepted it. And so it took, you know, being in New York to kind of get there myself. Was it unconditional? I mean, they loved you.

It was. Yeah. When I came out to my parents, my mom said, I've been waiting for this moment for 18 years. You know, like I think my parents always knew. I did theater growing up.

I liked to play with dolls. You know, I was obsessed with the spice girls. You know, the signs were there. I was too. Yeah, I mean, spice girls.

Yeah, everyone. Who was the sporty spice? Sporty spice. Baby spice. Scary. Beckoms. Who's. Posh. Posh. Yeah.

So you, so back in, in high school growing up, you were, did you, was it, like, were you dating women? Were you aware of that, that you were attracted to the opposite sex? You know, I mean, same sex? Like, what, where were you at? I had girlfriends in high school. And I think I always knew I was gay, but I was fighting it so hard. And I think for a period really convinced myself that I wasn't. And I had real relationships with, with women, you know, like I had real love for. both of those girlfriends are still in my life today. Of course they are.

I still good friends. But I think what I realized in college that freshman year was, you know, I didn't have the emotional connection with a woman that I had with a man. And yeah, I think I still have a lot of like internalized homophobia that I'm still dealing with, you know? To this day. To this day, definitely. What does that mean?

Someone else that we've spoken to said similar thing. What does that really mean? I think growing up I so didn't want to be gay. that I tried to reject everything that seemed gay to me, you know, and tried to fight mannerisms and the way I spoke. I tried to change everything to be something I wasn't or what I wanted to be. And even now, even though I've, you know, clearly accepted my sexuality, there's still a piece of me, I think, deep down that wishes I wasn't gay,

as horrible as that is to say. So honest. And, yeah. And I think, Jack, who I lost you know he really taught me to love myself and it was the first time I've I felt proud to be gay and in love with a man but um I don't know yeah I think is your first love was your first definitely definitely I think I thought I was in love before but I didn't but I wasn't you know and I when you know Jack and I we went on we only went on one date we like

we were set up my mutual friends we got beers at Finner days in the East Village He sat there for like four hours and then the next, that was a Thursday night. And on Saturday he texted me like, hey, what are you doing? And I was at a bar with my brother and some friends. And I said, oh, come by. And he came and spent the whole afternoon with us a night. And then we were just together after that. For the next seven years.

For the next seven years. Yeah. Inseparable. Inseparable. Told each other. We loved each other two weeks later at the Jane Hotel. And, you know, looking back, it's as if we knew our time was going to be short. You know, we didn't waste a moment.

You know, and I have, I truly have no regrets in my relationship with Jack. We told each other, we loved each other every day. And I think it's because of how he lived his life. He really, he didn't sweat the small stuff. He knew what mattered. And he just had an infectious energy and love for life. And, you know, life was an adventure with him. And he really made the most of the time he had.

And he wasn't at NYU. He just met him after. college. Yeah, a friend of mine from St. Louis went to Lehigh with him. And she set us up after college in the city. So a question I have is when you're, when did you start writing? And when you're writing, what kind of stories are you writing that maybe, you know, inform or allow you to sort of express this sort of internal battle you're waging with yourself? Right, right. So the first thing I wrote was in high school. I wrote a play. And it was very autobiographical. And it was about a guy who was in love with his best friend, his straight best friend.

And... Was that you? Yeah, I was... Does your straight best friend know? I think he probably talked. We're still friends. Was this play put out or no? No.

I was like, no, I wrote it as like, we had to do a senior thesis at my high school. So I wrote a play. And so the only person that read it at the time was like my drama teacher, one of the monks. I went to a Catholic high school. But he was a progressive monk. We're still friends. Great guy. But that, looking back, I'm like...

Like, what was I thinking? Like, I can't believe I was so brave to write that and share it with people. And I did have that friend, he did read it. And I don't know. Yeah, looking back, anyways, I don't, sorry, I'm getting lost. No, no, no, finish it. Yeah, looking back, I can't believe I wrote that and let him read it. And I think I was struggling with things that I didn't even understand at the time.

I didn't even realize what I was writing. But looking back, it was very much like that this guy was in love with someone he couldn't love. Anyway, so then in college, I studied dramatic writing, so playwriting, screenwriting, and TV writing, and got a job at Blue Bloods after school and spent nine years there. And what was funny after Jack passed, it was actually weird to be writing a cop show because every episode, someone's dying. You know, there's a lot of grief. And Blue Bloods is about a family of cops who have dealt with a lot of grief. The show begins with Tom Selleck losing his son. Donnie Wahlberg's character

He lost his wife halfway through the run So I was able to channel my grief And work it into the episodes I was writing Which was really awesome How did the show handle that? I mean, where the producers were going to be like, Jack, we got a grief story here, buddy You want to take this one?

I mean, how does that handle? Right, so we actually, we got to, I got to pick the stories I wrote. So we, I would pitch the stories I wanted to our showrunner. So I was picking stories and coming up with stories that were relating to what I was going through. So I was able to work it in myself. But how did you get that job, that job?

Are they like, do you have experience? Because I know like on law and order, you know, a lot of former cops, you know, a lot of people who know that world. Because I knew nothing about law enforcement or the law. But yeah, so I started there as an intern and just worked my way up. And I had a play that I used as a sample that my boss read and enjoyed. But we had a great team of technical advisors. We had a retired NYPD detective, Janu Siforo, who was on set every day, who read every outline script and gave extensive notes.

And he was also there as a resource when I was brainstorming story ideas. I could call him and be like, okay, this is what I want to happen. And he'd be like, okay, that would never happen. But here's a way that it could work, you know? So there was a great team of people supporting and making it real. That's cool. I love that are you ready to talk about yeah yeah so so grief oh yeah we've had experts on we've had people who experienced grief I think you know grief and trauma I have gotten more airtime

recently which is good because I think people were shoving that stuff down for for many many years and you know they kind of say trauma is like something that should have happened to you that didn't or something that happened to you that shouldn't have, right? And that's kind of the second example is you, right? Like, this should not have happened to you. I mean, you're living this fairy tale love story. You're with this guy, Jack number two for seven years. You get engaged.

You guys, I guess, go to sleep one night and you wake up. Can you take us through to the- Yeah, I'll walk you through it. So we were in St. Louis for Christmas. It was the first time we were going to be celebrating Christmas together. We had gotten engaged a few months prior. So we were at my parents' house, and we'd been to an engagement party for a friend of mine. We came home.

He wasn't feeling well. He kind of thought he maybe drank too much. It was, you know, nothing really out of the norm. But we went to bed, and then an hour later, he woke me up. He said, Jack, you know, I really don't feel well. And he went in the bathroom. And I went in after him to, like, bring him water. And he was on the floor, you know, coughing.

and the next thing I knew, he kind of turned over. And I thought he fell asleep. It was so quick and so peaceful. But I tried to wake him, and he, you know, wasn't waking up. And so then I realized something, you know, was actually wrong. And so I ran downstairs. I got my dad. We called 911.

And my dad did CPR until the paramedics got there. The paramedics were there in like five minutes, thankfully. And they worked on him for, you know, and probably, an hour and just were never able to revive them. And looking back, I'm so grateful that I've learned now. At the time, we didn't know what happened, you know. So that was the hardest part for that first month was, you know, I, you know, you go through so many scenarios in your head.

I wasn't sure if he had choked or if he had taken something. I was like, I was texting all my friends. Like, did someone give him something at the party and you're not telling me something? You know, I went through every possible scenario. But what we ended up finding out was he had an enlarged heart and another heart condition. that he didn't know about. So the way it was described to me was that, you know, nothing could have been done.

And it was something that was going to strike at any moment. So if it had to happen, I'm grateful that it happened when I was with my whole family, that we were in St. Louis. You know, if we were alone in our apartment and our five-floor walk-up, like, would have taken the paramedics, you know, an hour to get there probably.

So I'm grateful to know that everything that could have been done was done. And I had my whole family there to carry me through that night. And I'm just so grateful that I wasn't alone for it. When you say he had an enlarged heart, is there some truth to that? I mean, based on the human that he was? Dude, I mean, when we got, when I heard that, when we got the autopsy, and the term is cardiomegaly. And they said, oh, he had an enlarged heart.

I'm like, of course. Like, he had the biggest heart in the world, you know? So there is something beautiful about that. Absolutely. yeah and there's nothing that could have been done had this been caught or known prior correct that was the way that it was described to me and so you this is several times are you christmas you guys celebrate christmas and so like you there's days afterwards i mean it's it's a nightmare right i mean you can't well so okay yeah it was um but um one nice thing about it when my parents had to call his parents

thankfully his whole family was together because it was the holiday so that was one you know silver lightning I guess but but yeah so yeah the next day was it was Christmas and my mom I remember my mom saying you know let's try to have a normal morning like let's open get no one knows what to do but so we opened presents you know and we acted normal and there was a stack of presents there for him that it took me probably a year to finally open And that afternoon, I had some friends come over to my house, to my parents' house, and just sat with friends and cried. And it felt good to be with people. And that day, my friend Colin, one of my best friends, he asked me, what's something you do now that you didn't do before you met Jack?

And without skipping a beat, I just said, love myself. And I'm so grateful that he asked me that question. And because in that moment, I just, something came over me, like this gratitude. You know, it hit me like, I, how lucky I was to be loved by Jack and how it had changed me. And, you know, that was day two of my grief. And I was already coming to that realization. And so I'm so grateful to Colin for asking that question. Yeah.

No, I mean, there's something to be said, right? I mean, I just remember, like, when I went to rehab, they said that they're going to kind of like, love me until they could I could love myself right and there's some truth to that I think in this world especially today it's like I got to get some loving because otherwise I'm not going to actually like I need that validation I need to actually have someone else telling me them making believe making me believe in myself so I'm so happy that Colin did that I'm curious and this might seem a little bit out of left field but I'm always fascinated by in the aftermath there like what is your relationship to alcohol, drug?

Are you reaching to numb yourself? Or are you, are you sitting in it and feeling it? Yeah. It's funny. I remember for like the first month, I thought, oh, I never want to drink again because we had been drinking that night. And I didn't know what had happened. And, you know, and then as time went on and I came back to New York and I'm, you know,

alone in my apartment, I wanted to go out, you know. And so I definitely did all the wrong things the first year. I was drinking too much. I was, you know, yeah, I overdid it because I was, I was depressed and I was lonely. And I was seeking, you know, company, you know. It felt better to be sitting on a bar stool than alone on my couch, you know, with feeling his absence. So I definitely overdid it the first year. And I've figured my way through it now.

And I still have moments where I probably overdo it a little bit when I'm having a bad day. I'm not proud of that. You're allowed to do that. You know, so yeah. So it's complicated. Of course. Of course. And that's natural.

That's why I ask. Do you, are you dating? Do you date? Yes. High standards for whoever you're dating. I know. I know. Yeah, dating's been really weird.

So I waited a year. I didn't feel ready before that. And also just, yeah. So I waited a year. And then I got on the apps. I downloaded Hinge and Raya. And I went on a few app dates. And, you know, I don't know why this hadn't dawned on me until I'm sitting there on the first date with someone.

But every question he was asking, you know, like, oh, what did you do during COVID? And, oh, you know, why are you new to the app? I felt like I didn't want to bring up Jack on the first date. And so because I didn't bring it up, I just sat there and lied to this guy all night. You know, so then I got home and I'm like, I literally just, that was such a waste of time. Like that guy, you know, I lied about everything by trying to avoid talking about Jack. So on the next date I went on, I thought, okay, if it comes up, naturally, like, I'm just going to go for it.

And sure enough, the guy asked, you know, like, oh, are you, when was your last relationship? So I said, you know, this is kind of heavy, but I was engaged, my fiance passed away. And the guy was really great, really sweet, like, said all the right things. Oh, like a minute later, he's like, hey, you know, don't worry. I've been trauma dumped on before. And then I was like, oh, God. So after that, I was, like, just discouraged from the whole dating things. I'm like, I don't know how to navigate this.

And I also, I don't think I was ready. I think I just wanted to, like, check the box and show myself, I did it. I can go out on a date. And then I had a few setups, which were great because going in, I knew the person, you know, knew my story. And then I didn't date for a while. And then the past few months, I've been going on dates again through apps or setups. And at this point, it's nice because since I started sharing my story on the internet, when you Google me, it's like the first thing that comes up. So I feel like now when I go on dates with random people, they'll know, you know, because I feel like everyone Googles.

The Google thing is weird. I mean, like when I, you know, I was on TV at one point and I remember there was a period where I was dating and it was always just like, do they know? Do they not know? Are they playing dumb? And like, you just got to assume. Right. Everyone you're going, you're going to get Googled. You're going to get Googled. So I like that. I'm like, I'm glad that it's just out there and I don't have to worry about it anymore. Um, can you share, can you share? I mean, after it happened, what were you doing to take care of yourself? Like, when did you know? you were ready. Were you in therapy? What were you learning about this process that allowed you to feel like you could move forward in a healthy way? Absolutely. I started started therapy right away. I found a grief psychologist who was recommended by a friend. And I went to him, like, I started with him two weeks after Jack passed. Jack was in therapy off and on throughout our relationship. He really believed in it. And it's something I had never really done myself. But I just thought in the moment, I was like, I want to get through this. And I want to use every reason.

resource possible. I don't want this to be the thing that ruins my life, you know. So I jumped at the chance to, you know, start therapy. And thankfully, I clicked with the guy. And I still see him once a week. And he has totally helped me navigate this. And, you know, I would say in sessions like, oh, well, you know, at the year mark, then I'll be ready to date. And he was like, why? You know, like, if you want to date now, you can date now. Like, you just have to do whatever feels right to you. And, you know, stop making these markers for yourself. Because in my mind, I was like, you know, when I hit one year, you know, it's going to be easier. And none of that is true.

And so he definitely helped me navigate that. And another just funny story about him. So I go in for my second session and he says, oh, before we begin, there's something I need to talk to you about. And I was like, oh, God, like, did I do something wrong? And he said, I think I know your brother. And turns out he's neighbors with my brother. They live in the same building. Oh, wow.

And he said, I didn't know your brother's last name, but I ran into him on the end. elevator and he was sharing how his brother's fiancee passed over the holiday. And I thought, God, that's so similar to this new patient of mine. And he said, and then it was bothering me later that night. So I looked up your brother's name in the directory and realized you're related. So he said, you know, it's not an issue for me, but if it's an issue for you, you know, I can recommend you to someone else. And I thought, no, this feels like a sign. Like you're the exact person I should be with. You know, out of all of the psychiatrists in New York that I happen to go to the one who lives in my brother's building, just feel.

I mean, look, the truth here is that you are going to meet someone that loves you and loves you and the fact that you still love Jack. Right. Like, they're going to be able to accept all those pieces of you. I mean, like jealousy really doesn't have a lot of room in relationships. We know that, right? And so there's going to be some trial and error, but you'll get there. Thank you.

Yeah, and I have hoped that I will. I believe that I'll find the right person and, you know, someone who can handle all of it. were you dreaming about jack like like what was your yeah i'm just curious how internal yeah you know what i've only i've only had two dreams that i've remembered that he's been in and the first one was about six months after he passed and we were in the dream we were sitting in our apartment and i just looked at him and i thought i realized like you shouldn't be here and so i just grabbed him and hugged him and held him and cried and it felt like hours and then i woke up and i woke up and i up, and it really felt like I had just been holding him again, and it was beautiful.

So I wish he had come to me and my dreams more, but we'll see. Yeah. I mean, we were talking about actors before this being weird, and I know a bunch of actors who work with dream coaches when they're working on roles, and it's crazy, because you really can entice your dream life, you know, to where you're remembering, you wake up. I have done some of that before, like, you know, remembering, dream because now I really don't remember any dreams. Although I did have a weird dream the other night, but that's for a story.

But I will tell you something crazy about dreams. This is a tangent. Did you have fun? In the dream? Yeah. Was it sexual? It was sexual. It was a little sexual.

It was very strange. It was very strange. But let me tell you something about dreams. I used to watch horror movies when I was a kid. And they would scare the shit out of me and I kept watching them. And I got on a Freddie Kruger kick. And it literally was preventing. me from going to sleep because his movies were all about I come to you in your sleep one night

I had a dream where I met freddie Kruger in the basement the furnace where he would burn all the kids and we walked up to each other and we shook hands and it was okay and after that I never had a nightmare I swear to God and I'm looking at Sarah here because I feel like she's like a safe person to be like yeah that happened to me too because um shout out Sarah but um that was crazy I think dreams are incredibly powerful. So that's just why I was curious. That's the dream tangent there, Jack. So Jack, in my world and in our world, Jay and I are both sober, there's these built-in communities that are probably more accessible than one would say like a grief community. Right. And so I'm just, so for me, I will say I got sober and I knew, if I knew anything after I got sober, which was like

my thing like your thing is jack too i was going to go help people it was just going to be a part of my existence because i was so grateful it was it was different in the fact that i was so grateful for having this kind of second lease on life have you what so what is your kind of like relationship with grief are you going to go back and get training are you just trying to be a resource there are there communities that you found like give us a give us a down to Yeah, totally. I've found a community through TikTok, honestly. And, you know, when I started posting, sharing how I was feeling each day, I was very clear about, you know, I'm not an expert. I'm just one man who's grieving and who wants to talk about it. So when I, like, give advice,

I always say, you know, this is what's worked for me. I don't know that it'll work for you because everyone grieves differently. But I think that there's just simple things that are universal that I like to share. I do want to go get training. I've been looking into some grief counseling. programs and certifications. So now I feel like I have a responsibility to get trained because I feel like people are turning to me as a resource and I'm not equipped to answer a lot of the questions people are asking me. But so I've found community through TikTok.

Every day I'm getting messages from other widows or widowers or people who are grieving a child or a pet who found comfort in my story and who want to share theirs with me. So it's been really beautiful and it's made me feel less alone. And I think at first when the TikTok, when I started on TikTok, it was hard to, it didn't feel real, you know, because it's just, I'm talking to people online. And then slowly I've run into people on the street who have recognized me and will come up and either, they either want to hug me because they know my story or they need a hug for me because they're also grieving and that's why they resonated with it. And so that's been really beautiful. And yeah, and I had coffee last week with someone who I met through all of this, who went through a very very, very similar loss. Her fiance passed right before their wedding and sitting with someone who's

been through the exact same thing and talking about it. It was so cathartic and amazing. I want to find more of a community. Do you know Amanda Klutz? Do you know her story? Yes. And so I was, I was mentioning, I listened to her episode on the podcast, but I actually got to meet Amanda last year. She got starred on Blue Bloods in our final season. And when I heard that she was cast in episode. It wasn't mine, but I was like, I am going to set that day and I'm going to meet Amanda and thank her because she was someone that I turned to. You know, I watched her story in real time through COVID losing Nick and I watched how she processed it and made something so beautiful out of it. So when I lost Jack, you know, she was kind of a beacon of light to me. And so

I went down to set the day that she was filming and I waited until she was finished with all of her scenes and then I kind of ambushed her in her dressing room and I was like I'm so sorry but I just have to thank you and I got choked up I could barely get the words out but she knew you know and she just hugged me and sat with me and gave me some great advice and she gave me her time and and and I just got to say thank you and yeah it was really beautiful so yeah she talks about those walks wooded walks which is so powerful and then that's but that's that's the thing I think we miss a lot in life in general no matter what the tragedy is is there you might sit here and say like, oh, I don't have the certifications or I don't have the

trainings or I'm not qualified, but truly you are. And you have more, you have the experience that no one can give you in school, which is you've lived it. You've gone through it. And that's how I feel. Because when I get into rooms and there's doctors, I'm not a clinician. I'm not a doctor. Right. But I'm invited to go into these rooms and be in these conversations and be a part of care teams. And like, I have to own my shit and say, like, I actually know what I'm doing here. Right. Like, I've been through this. I know the feelings, thoughts, emotions associated with substance abuse and my family and all that and so to you and so I encourage you to yes it's nice to have clinical training and it's nice to have clinicians

involved but like you are a key a key piece of someone's healing you know so I appreciate that thank you do you I want this to sound the right way do you feel with the TikTok so so much of my identity on social media is around substance abuse and there's days where I just don't want to talk about it. I'm just like, I'm over the shit. Like it's my whole identity. It's what I do for work. It's what people know about me. People call it me on the street. It's what they're asking me about. And so I don't know, it's not like necessarily imposter syndrome, but like do you get fried? Like do you have, do you find yourself addicted to it or what is your relationship? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I am addicted to it. But no, I, you know, when I started this, I was doing a daily

thought on grief. And then finally, like day 30, I hit a wall. And I was like, I don't want to talk about grief today. And so that's what I posted. I put up my daily thought and I said, I don't want to talk about it today. You know, I'm having a good day. I don't want to get bogged down by going down this hole. And so I feel like that kind of gave me permission moving forward from that day on that if it's a day, if I want to post, if I have a thought one day, I'll post it. If I don't have anything to say that day, I don't post. Or if I have something happy or positive or joyful to share. I'm letting myself just post whatever I want, you know, and I, because I did feel a pressure at the beginning that, oh, you know, I don't want to put up like happy moments on my Instagram story

when all these widows just followed me and are expecting me to, you know, be in mourning. I don't know. It's weird. And I'm just trying to do what feels right every day and share all sides of it because that's grieving, you know. If you are lucky enough to have a moment of joy, you should grasp onto it and celebrate it. So, um, it's, you know, it's never, well, even after it happened and you said you guys were trying to have a normal Christmas. Yeah. I mean, what is, what is, what is, what is, what is Christmas like for you now? Yeah. Um, you know, at the time, I thought, wow, you know, this holiday is ruined forever. And in some ways, I think it is. But there was so, so many blessings about it being Christmas Eve. You know, it's a, it's a day I'll never have to work, hopefully. It's a day I'll always be

surrounded by family and friends, loved ones, it's a day that no one in my life will ever forget. He didn't pass on a random Tuesday in March. It was Christmas Eve, you know, so people will never forget that. And then the day that it happened, you know, I was with all my family. His family was all together. So there were some blessings around it. And it's also like the saddest, the hardest day of the year to be sad, Christmas, you know? So, and it was his favorite day of the year was Christmas Eve. He used to say that. which is crazy. And I forgot that until I was going through his things. And one of his coworkers had written him a birthday card that said, I hope tonight is like Christmas Eve. And that's what

he used to say. Thursdays are better than Fridays because Christmas Eve is better than Christmas. So it's as if he knew that if he was going to have to leave us, he was going to do it on a day that it would be impossible to be sad. I can get behind that. Thursday's being better than Fridays. I like the people I work with, so I don't mind coming in on Friday. And then like knowing the week is over. You mentioned a word that I think is important for people to hear, which is joy. What is, what is bringing you joy today? What is, um, being here, getting to talk about Jack. I love talking about him. I love sharing him with new people. Um, and this emotion, like this thing that I'm feeling from you, right? Like, I'm feeling it. You're, you're probably feeling it. Is it, is it, is it, like,

I love this guy so much. I'm so proud to be talking about him. Or is it a mixture of, This is still the saddest thing ever, but I'm going to get through it. You know, it's shifted. I think just in the past couple months, the more I speak about him, the more it's settling in to a nice place. And I feel like I'm falling in love with him more and more each day. You know, our relationship is different now, but it's still there. I'm always going to have a relationship with him.

He's always going to be a part of me. You know, he changed me in so many ways and so much of him is within me. and I carry him with me every day and that's never going away and it's settling into a nice a nice place and I'm just yeah I'm proud of him and and yeah I just I'm still madly in love with him and so but so so being here talking to us talk about Jack how about any like I saw your thought the other day where you said just like get outside and take a walk you try to do that daily definitely the walks are crucial um I love my morning walks I swear to God if I I don't, if I don't walk, it's like my whole day is thrown off. I need to start my day with that walk,

just getting outside, collecting my thoughts. Sometimes I listen to music or a podcast. Other times I don't listen to anything and I just think. But it's like the time I give myself each day to check in with myself and, you know, see where I am. And I think it's, there's so many benefits to walking over that. Have, is, is there, is there anything or, or multiple things that you've realized about grief now that you, you know, either change your mind about it from then? Totally, yeah. Well, the big thing is, you know, people say, oh, time helps, you know, it'll get easier. Time heals all wounds. Time heals all wounds. And I don't know my wounds. But like I think originally when I heard that, I thought, oh, yeah, when I hit one year, it's going to get easier.

At the two-year mark, it's going to be, you know, things will be better. And what I have found is there is no timeline. It is not linear. And it's not going anywhere. You know, you don't move on from grief. You move forward with it. You know, it's something that is, that I'm going to carry for the rest of my life. And what time does do is it, it gives you time to learn how to carry it, you know? So yes, it's gotten easier to carry, but it hasn't gone away. It's still as big as it was. I've just grown around it. And yeah, I remember a friend of mine said to me shortly after Jack passed, he had lost his mother a few years prior. And he said, oh, just wait till the six month mark. Like, that's the worst. And I remember thinking, what the hell? I thought it was going to get better with time. And how could it get any worse than I'm feeling right now? And then sure enough, six months rolls around and the shock has started to wear off and, you know, the reality of what happened is setting in. And that really was, I think, the lowest point for me. And people stop reaching out. People stop reaching out. And I will say, I'm very blessed. I have a great family, a great support system, Jack's friends, Jack's family. I had an incredible community kind of lifting me up. And I have friends that still check in with me. So I've been very blessed in that regard.

is any of the it's all it's all to do with jack all of it this was going to be my wedding ring it's my initials this is a bracelet that says jack two that was a gift same with this one this is his birthstone this was a bracelet he wore every day he was wearing it when he passed and this was the watch that i proposed to him with it's inscribed with our initials so oh and i got a dog tag with his handwriting on it so i'm uh i'm all blinged out in jack uh jack jewelry but it makes me feel closer to him, especially wearing his bracelet on the watch because he never took them off. How has it changed your perspective on life and death? Oh, yeah. I, you know, I was raised Catholic, but if I'm being honest, I kind of used to think that life ends and there's probably nothing

after it. And it was really depressing and I just tried not to think about it. And that has changed completely for me. I fully believe that there is something after this. I believe that our spirits live on. You know, they say energy never dies. And I've found that to be true. I feel like I see signs from Jack almost every day. And I've opened my heart to that. And it's been very comforting to me. I've spoken to a few mediums. That's crazy. I never believed in that stuff before, you know, but I went to one, like six months after he died, who knew such specific things that no one else knew. I mean, it was so, and, you know,

you can say, you know, oh, that's all fake or whatever, but just let us have it. You know, if it's bringing someone comfort, let them have it. But I loved it, and it brought me a lot of comfort. And yeah,

so it's changed my whole view on everything. Yeah. I believe in that energy. I actually feel this weird, crazy feeling that you're going to meet someone as a result of this show. I don't know why I'm just like feeling this. Because you're just so wrong.

You're so open. You're so honest. So like if someone was to listen to this, this and they were single and on the market looking for a jack you know like i don't know and you're open to it yeah yeah slide into the d ys you're open to it i'm open to it just uh no jacks yeah jacks yeah and you're writing every day now and you're working what are you doing now yeah i'm trying to write a memoir so i'm working on a book proposal right now and i've been that's been kind of it's been cathartic you know going back and and kind of reliving our relationship and

going through the milestones and reflecting on them. And the book that I'm putting together, it's part of it is our time together. And then part of it is the last two years, you know, life with him and then building a life without him. And so that's been very cathartic and I'm enjoying it. And we'll see where it goes. I think that's going to help some people.

I hope so, you know. And, you know, are you working with a ghostwriter or you're just, you're a writer. I'm a writer. So I'm trying to just do it myself. But, yeah, you know, back to the TikTok thing. can be addicting and it can be discouraging when you know one video gets a million views and then your next one gets like 400 views like the algorithm makes no sense and whenever I put effort into

them they don't do well when I record a random thought on my couch it pops off um but what I was going to say is as long as one person sees that video and leaves a comment saying that it helped them then it's all worth it so yeah just trying to hold on to that and keep chugging along and posting and writing about it and talking about it and you know yeah I think the best energy there is It's just your energy, like the same energy you've had this whole conversation, which is like whatever feels good to you. Yeah. Someone said to me right after.

Right. Maybe it's the word, it's not always going to feel good, but right, whatever feels right to you. Right. Someone said to me right after he passed, all you can do is let yourself feel. You know, just feel your emotions and don't suppress anything. And I feel like I really held on to that and have tried to embody that every day now. you know if i'm sad i let myself be sad if i need to cry i cry um if i'm happy i let myself be

if he was here what would you say to him like if you got to say one last thing to him what would what would that be wow um i think i would i'd thank him you know i took him for granted you know yes i told him i loved him every day we didn't we didn't really fight much you know we'd bicker about stupid things but i think he knew how much i loved him um but i would just i didn't realize how lucky I was, you know? And I wish, I hate that, you know, we get this new perspective through tragedy. And it really, it's sad. So to anyone listening, I hope it doesn't take a tragedy for you to take stock of your life and take a moment to feel gratitude for what you have. Because, yeah, so I wish that I could thank him for everything he did for me and

thank him for loving me. You know, some days I think what could, what did he see and me you know why why was i so lucky why did he love me and and then i just remember you know this amazing person chose to love me and that kind of gets me through if that makes sense that makes whole sense the story is so powerful and and a lot of hope and i think like you know even in recovery i mean the hope of seeing it in someone else yeah seeing them go through it like that cracks open the door and a lot of times we just think that well hope has to be just wrapped in this ball of positivity and it's like no like the most powerful hope comes from the darkness absolutely you know and i just i hear a lot of hope and i and i think what you said about

finding someone like makes a lot of sense because you're open to it and you're not just sitting and wallowing and self-pity um and you're trying to be helpful uh and there's just a lot of i don't know Like, I feel a lot of joy from you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Had you experienced any loss prior to this? Like, had you lost a grandparent or like a... I'd lost my grandparents.

My sister lost twins at birth, two years, or I guess three, three years before Jack passed. I can't even remember now. But that was, I think, the first tragic, you know, tragedy that I lived through. And, you know, when Jack passed, I, you know... I just had a whole new appreciation for what my sister went through and her husband. And she's the strongest person I know. I don't know how you overcome something like that. And so she was a beacon of light, you know, to me and an inspiration through my,

because I saw how she moved forward with her life and, you know, didn't let it destroy her marriage or, you know. So that was my first real experience with grief. And then Jack, of course, was a whole other level to me personally. But, yeah, it's just, it's changed everything, you know. It's, I've got a whole new outlook on life. I'm so grateful to be alive, to be here right now. You know, it's like there's joy all around and, you know, life's too short to be negative or, you know.

And his family's fine with you talking about it. Yeah, yeah, you know, that was one thing. I didn't, like, tell them that I was posting on TikTok. And I didn't really tell anyone in my life. And then that one video went viral and then everyone found out. So my initial concern, I was like, oh, God, are they going to, like, mind that I'm doing this? And thankfully, they have loved it and embraced it. And it's brought, you know, they're so happy that people are getting to know Jack and are talking about him again.

And his mom even, she called me and said, I'd love to do a video with you. You know, I have so much. Oh, it would be great. And, you know, so they have fully embraced it. And I'm so grateful for that. I'm not equipped for that one, dude. My mom is like, you know, that's my mom's, they get me. I know this has been good man please let us know how we can support you I mean this is like a really powerful topic it's a powerful conversation you know I'm grateful that you're here I'm grateful that like Jay said you're kind of like plowing through some of the pain and coming out on the other side and providing others with hope and like grief is grief is it's almost like this silent I don't know like people don't want to give it the respect that it deserves right it comes back to get to at times when you at least expect

it so absolutely well thank you so much for getting in this platform and letting me talk about jack i've really enjoyed it yeah we're gonna we're gonna talk about them loud and proud with you jack too jack too thank you cheers