The Zac Clark Show - Minisode: Jay Unfiltered — Sober Dad Life (and Popping Zyns in All the Wrong Places)

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

With Zac in London for the marathon, Jay takes the mic for a raw and reflective solo episode—joined off-camera by producer Sarah Prazmark—for a candid conversation about addiction, language, parenting, and the lingering pull of substances like nicotine.Jay opens up about his 17 years of sobriety, the complicated feelings he still has around the word “addict,” and the stigma that continues to shape how we talk about recovery. From parenting with past addictions to the normalization of substances like weed, alcohol, and nicotine, this conversation touches on the deep, often uncomfortable questions about identity, control, and how we pass these narratives on to our kids.Featuring reflections on past guests like Dr. Cara Poland and John Lieberman, this episode dives into the gray areas—honest, unfiltered, and full of insight.Topics Include:The power and politics of addiction languageNicotine, Zyn, and the shame spiral of modern vicesPreventing early substance use in kidsNavigating recovery while parentingHow stigma still silences important conversationsListen, share, and send us your questions—we’re planning more Q&A episodes soon.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right. A little special episode of the Zach Clark show today because Daddy ain't home. You know what I'm saying? He's over in London doing the run run. And that's what it's going to be. We might hear from him later on. A little extemporaneous drop-in with Zach Clark prior to the marathon, London Marathon that's taking place sometime this weekend. I am not a runner. I don't run. I have flat feet. So that's my excuse. And I really, I don't like running. And I know that's sacrilegious to say around these parts. And I know that when I say I don't like running, they're going to say to me, well, that's what everyone who says who doesn't run, you know, don't knock it until you try it. But no, I have, I've, I've, I've tried running and my body doesn't seem to respond to it. But anyway, today, we wanted to get on and talk about a few things um i have my uh my producer one of our producers sarah prasmark known as what hi hi um she's off camera you'll thank us for that

you'll thank us for that um you'll thank us for that um but so we're gonna we're gonna talk you know um We had a guest on that the episode hasn't come out yet, and it's someone who is very close to Zach Clark. When we were having this conversation, I got a little emotional talking about my family because, you know, one thing, I've been 17 years sober. I've talked about that, but if you don't know, I've been, I'm 17 years sober. That's how I met Zach over a decade ago in this process. And I think that, you know, one thing that I've sort of realized in having these conversations with people who are close to substance use or have been affected by loved ones who struggle with substances is, you know, what that experience is really like for people who are trying to help someone else who's struggling. And I just got very emotional because I have two young children. I am predisposed to, you know, the disease of addiction or whatever you want to call it.

I still am confused about the language, and I know we've gone back and forth on this. I think, and I'm just going on a little tangent here, that, you know, the Dr. Poland episode, which I do encourage anyone to go back and look at, she did say something that was very interesting where it's not necessarily how we talk about the person who has it. it's the using different language can help the person talk about themselves um and also you know when you're talking about the medical community uh there is some sort of subliminal or subconscious benefit of you know referring to substance use disorder or someone has a you know struggles with substance use rather than the negative connotation of you know they abuse substances um because

look at the end of the day and and i'm stealing this from a past guest as well, John Lieberman, you know, the still fundamentally the biggest struggle to talk about this stuff is stigma. And that word has been parodied and, you know, blown up 300,000 feet into the air. But the reality is that talking about this shit still is hard to do. And, you know, I know someone in my life right now who's very close to me and she's a public figure and um and she doesn't talk out loud about you know her sobriety um and i think the fear is is that you are revealing something about yourself that is um ugly or damaged or wrong um and i think like that is like the fundamental issue um we've used this analogy before you know a person with

cancer, a person with diabetes or has some sort of chronic disease. Like they're not, the feeling around it is different than someone saying, I'm, you know, I'm an addict, you know, and Sarah wrote something on her phone in little yellow writing. That's a question for me. And the question is, do you call yourself an addict? What is the language mean? I got to be honest. Like, if I say the word addict, it is so, the idea of an addict is so ingrained or inculcated into my mind of someone not like me.

It's someone who's like living at the bottom under the bridge is homeless or lost there. And I, and I don't think that anymore. It's literally just like Through letters That Addict Addict and addiction Addicts six letters isn't it

No but I mean like We're not comfortable using The term addicts But they use say yeah I have an addiction And it's just like Well I feel like If you say I'm an addict

And I have an addiction I feel like that brings up the same thing I mean look I think it's a lot easier to say like Oh I'm fucking addicted to eating You know Eminet at three in the morning, you know, I can't stop. But if I say, like, I'm addicted to fucking sniffing heroin at three in the morning,

you know, people will look at someone saying that a little bit differently. It's hard because I don't think the language should matter, right? Like, I think that, you know, um, I just, the problem is, is, and I, it's just the miss on, in your height, in your prime, like your career high of partying. Addictionhood? Addictionhood. Would you, how would you react to if somebody was like, hey, I actually think you're an addict. I probably would have said, like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Because first of all, my first real issue was with alcohol, right? And, like, you don't say, like, oh, you're addicted to alcohol, right? Like, you say, like, someone's, someone says, you say you're an alcoholic, right? Or you have a problem with drinking. So I would have said, like, I'm not, you know, I think the issue for me was when I got into other substances like cocaine, where, like, I was really, like, doing it, having a bad night, the worst night, and then saying, I'm never going to do it again, and then, like, doing the worst night again.

And that happened enough to where I was, like, something shifted in me, and I really felt like this isn't normal. I probably wasn't calling myself an addict, but... Did you use cocaine, like, without alcohol, or was it, like, always... Yeah, I started to. Well, it's... That's the problem with all this. stuff is that it really is like it really is a progression and I think like that's what's scary about

you know alcohol and also weed and even just using you know with dr with mr. Lieberman talking about like our if with ADHD if you're introducing someone who may be predisposed to substance use disorder uh if you if you're introducing like a stimulant or an infetamine I mean, you know, then are you sort of nudging them towards the black abyss? I mean, for instance, and this is something I was going to bring up, going back, I think one of the issues is that there is still just so much misunderstanding and misinformation about what addiction looks like in someone, right? Because a lot of times you may not see it and someone is struggling. And for every person that you can say, like, oh, that's a personality type that is prone to substances, which substance use, which I have said before, you can then go find like a line of other people who are not out there, you know, running around the city at five, six in the morning, doing awful things. You know, there's the person who doesn't ever leave their home and just sits on their couch and can't stop drinking wine because they're so terrified of leaving their apartment.

So it's, it's hard to say, like, you know, this is a, you know, like with diabetes or someone who has high blood pressure or high blood sugar or is, or is overweight. My cholesterol actually is, I have high cholesterol. I did have high cholesterol. And then I was prescribed as statin, which I was like, fuck am I going to have to take a little, a little orange pill for the rest of my life. And I like, in line, I didn't want to be dependent on it. and you know what like I took this little orange pill every night and my cholesterol is now 156 it dropped over 70 80 points I'm only 40 too old but Sarah you're about to jump in hold on because I went when I went to the doctor my doctor my primary care physician thinks I'm nuts

she thinks like a lot of my issues are anxiety and she's like you know at some point you're probably going to have to address your anxiety. But I was talking. You just like raw dog leg, guys. Like you, you, I know. Yeah.

Because I'm, I'm scared of what will. Is that why you didn't want to take the orange, like, is, no, I didn't want to. Your past kind of gets in your head about taking their cholesterol.

No. Not, not with the cholesterol pill, because the cholesterol pill wasn't going to produce an effect in me that was like physical or like, that I could feel. But do you get scared that you have to depend on it? No,

yeah. Well, I just, I just didn't I just I feel like I'm young and I didn't want to I didn't want to be like you know like an old man with like my pill jar like Monday Wednesday Tuesday Thursday fucking lined up for me because I'm just like I'm too young for that you know but like now I have my pill like in the same place every day so that I can take the pill but I was talking to my doctor about because I have had a relationship with nicotine off and on for you know often offered to for 20 years which is like I hate saying that out loud because. because it's just, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's definitely the final frontier for me. And I was talking to her about how I'm aware that nicotine, uh, I do these zins. And there are these little pillow pouches that you stick in your lip and, and they absorb into your bloodstream and no one notices that you have one in and you don't

smell. And so there's a lot of benefits. And they're tobacco free. They literally look like polypacillows. Little pillows. And they become really like politicized and like, you know, like in like the manosphere as like the the accessory of choice you know i'm here to say i was using that shit before they popped off like that because i was and like i only am using them because they they they do the job they don't reek i don't smell when i use them and upper deckies there's some dude six millipillies there's some dude on there's some dude who's like he's like a younger he's like gen z uh dude we have our we have our other

colleague here Naya who represents the Gen Z contingency but like he talks in a way on his social channels where I'm like I don't understand one word you just said you know like you're like but he's like hey guys got nupri-decky in the top lip here gonna flip one old chairs gonna do and I'm like who the fuck are you dude uh but like I can't stop watching him like hit a golf ball talking about he's got like 10 zins in his mouth anyway I'm sorry so this is in right And the pitch on Zinn is that it doesn't have all the carcinogens that are associated with cigarettes and tobacco. You're not ingesting anything in your lungs. But there's nicotine.

There's some other shit in there that I'm sure causes cancer. But like that makes you feel like shit. Nick sick. But no, nicotine. I have a friend who's smoked cigarettes for 25 years. And I gave, I said, dude, he's about to have his first kid. I said, dude, you got to quit smoking. uh now you know he has a history of heart disease in his family and i gave him one of these

that's six milligram and it almost knocked him on his ass well i saw something that was like a two millimeter of nicotine margins because i'm trying to come off nicotine do it's the equivalent of one and a half cigarette yeah that's not but it's not even that too it's also that for this it's going it's with a cigarette you're doing that over a couple minutes you're taking your drag at a time this is like put it in and it's just flooding well you also can you're indoors you can do it at the dinner table you can do it yeah yeah i i remember i remember you used to be able to smoke cigarettes indoors though and i i remember in college like there was this restaurant that like they put like a a wood they put a plywood over the kitchen so that they could so

they could so they could separate the kitchen from the dining area and then then you would be allowed to smoke cigarettes i thought that was like the holy grail when i lived in atlanta i was Rip and darts at the IV in 2017. Yeah. Like you can swim inside Mars still. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so I told my doctor, I said, I'm aware that nicotine can constrict your arteries

and is not good for your heart. This isn't really talked about that much. And we just recently spoke to a cardiologist who sort of affirmed this that, yeah, nicotine is not good for your, for. your arteries and your and your overall your heart but I'm talking to my doctor about Zen and like she and I love her she's great like she's great she's thorough and like she doesn't really know what it is she doesn't I took it out I showed her in upper decky and I was like this is how you do it you put it in your mouth and it goes right into and and you know because she said

she's she has seen like more younger people having higher blood pressure okay can I ask you A semi-personal question? Well, I guess I'm sitting here in a chair with a microphone on my face. Do your kids know what those are? Like, don't touch those. No, they don't know what they are. But like, at one point, like, your daughter's of the age where she can ask, like, if she opened it and was like, I say, I've said it's candy and I would never, and I would never,

and I would never let them open it. And I try to keep it out of the way. But of course, they invariably find it. My son will run up to me and, like, it'll be, it'll follow. out of my pocket and he'll throw it at me um no that's my goal my goal is to like eradicate it from my life like no no trace because i don't do it because i don't even like the fact that i'm pushing the stroller to school and thinking about when i'm going to put my upper decky in or i have done it where i'm pushing the stroller and i wait till i'm down a dark side street and i'm like pushing

the stroller can i tell you something really sick because i i i when i had my daughter in 2018, I was, I had, I was, I had, I was, I had, I was an actor in her previous life and I was doing, I had just come back from doing a movie, terrible, and, and I started smoking cigarettes for the character, you know, I was doing it for the character. And, and, uh, really I just couldn't wait to be alone, free pass, smoke cigarettes. And I, and I, and I, and I developed a habit again, it hooked me. I just think some people are predisposed where they metabolized nicotine at a faster rate. Like, like, my body craves it.

And, and so I was smoking cigarettes with, like, my newborn. And I remember, like, going to meet... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's back back. Like, you're not smoking while, like, pulling your newborn. No, but, but I'm pushing her in a stroller and, like, you know... Do you have gloves on? Do you have gloves on?

I don't have gloves on, but I have on smoking gear. I have clothes on that, like, I'm going to stuff into a bag and then immediately wash. Last week, though, And I sort of respected how unapologetic this woman was. There was this woman pushing a stroller in the street who was just casually just smoking a cigarette, like with a baby, did not give a fuck. And like, this is in broad daylight, you know, like, I'm in a corner, like, sucking and blowing. And you feel like an asshole. You know, you feel like an asshole.

And, and, uh, but, but the feeling of, of assholes is just not strong enough to, to not do it. You know, because there are people who like, I just, I just. just I stopped, you know, and I just, I've never been able to do that. And I'm thankful that I stopped drinking and using drugs at a young enough age because I feel like the older you get, the harder, and this may be, I'm just from my own experience. Like, I just feel like that it's been harder to break habits the older I've gotten. Do you find it as like a parent, like I hate your advice, but do you find it like a parent and like kind of going into this new identity where.

you're focused on your kids and etc like you use nicotine a little bit of like an escape like it's like your one tie to like your old independent well i i think i think it's the same as the way people you know use coffee you know where someone's like i i i go to bed so i can wake up and have my first cup of coffee right like i don't go to bed yeah i've heard people say that naya like you don't drink coffee jenzy doesn't drink coffee No, I don't have Gen Z drinks coffee No, they do I mean, I'm thinking

What's Emma Chamberlain is Oh yeah, she's like I think honestly Gen Z revived iced coffee Say again Gen Z revived iced coffee No Sorry

Wrong Gen Z revived ice coffee No Okay I didn't say we made it up You said Revived As if it was dead

Dude ice coffee has never died See this is what happens When Zach Weaves the country but you felt like you feel like like I just I I feel like I would I'll have an ice coffee if it's 10 degrees or 90 degrees I just prefer ice coffee makes me feel like I'm drinking I'm not like a I'm not really into the flavor of coffee I just I like that it I can make it taste like a milkshake

what John Lieberman said was you know introducing substances to younger children also introduces the idea that a substance and or a chemical will make things better. And I find that even with caffeine. Like, I'm tired right now in my head. I'm thinking, oh, if I have a coffee, like, I'll feel better. Instead of, like, going for a walk or directly my sleep habits. Well, so going back to your question, you know, is the nicotine a partial escape? I don't know if I would have said escape, but I would say nicotine is like a, you know,

it's a little movie in my day. it's a little treat you know it's like it's like I'm going to take I'm going to have this thing it's going to hit me I'm going to you know I'll have it for 30 minutes I'll be a little altered okay tough question incoming do you think nicotine makes you a better I don't I think the lie of nicotine just as it is with the lie of substances is that it makes anything better because I just like I used to smoke cigars that's I stopped smoking cigarettes and then I didn't do anything and then I then I met a friend and he smoked and the first time I smoked cigar a cigar I literally had to go lie in the bathroom

and just wait for you know the the I didn't inhale it just was a very strong cigar and I never smoked and it just knocked me on my ass and that experience did nothing for me like the nicotine did its job and so I started smoking and I used to say cigars are different there's there's an artistry to him there's a flavor like there's there's there's an experience but when i started smoking cigarettes again after doing this thing i didn't want to smoke cigars anymore so like this whole narrative around how like i really enjoy a good cigar and i do enjoy i you know i rarely smoke them now but like i do enjoy like a good cigar but i wouldn't say that like i i love cigars i just fucking was addicted to nicotine and i you know i told myself a story

that it was the really, you know, I was, you know, into the cigars. And I feel like it's the same thing with, you know, I like to come home and have a beard on wine, like to have a glass of wine. I mean, look, does it produce? Look at the idea of drinking on your wedding day, right? It's part of the whole day is the toast and the champagne. Well, that's like, that's like number one of like when you hear people come into recovery and basically, like, how am I not going to drink on my wedding day?

How am I not going to blah, blah, blah, blah. And like... Because there's just, like, this weight to it of, like, like, just like you were saying with a cigar. It's like, oh, it's this image. It's the smell. It's the vibe. And it's, like, all wrapped up in one. But really what it is is the nicotine and for the champagne, it's the alcohol.

And I just wonder, though, if normal people who don't have an issue with alcohol really even consider that, right? Because, like, they're thinking about, you know, the experience of getting married, being with their family and friends, the celebration, you know, planning the wedding, all that shit. I drank and did drugs because I, number one, love the way it made me feel. And I also thought that it allowed me to come out of myself. And I think that's bullshit, right? I think that someone may be nervous or may be anxious or may be socially uncomfortable. but to establish a pattern

where you're using a substance to come out of yourself when you started to really click that oh hey if I drink this or if I smoke this I will come out of my shell I mean maybe I wasn't consciously saying that to myself at that time

but like I knew that the first time I drank whether it's 11 like 11 12 I knew that you know Friday nights with my friends and we're just roaming around the neighborhood like trying

Drink with your parents Like wasn't it like a thing They'd be like Oh jay like with dinner Why don't you have a sip of my wine Like with that No I never drank with my parents

And And I didn't want to drink with my parents Because I I didn't feel like I could drink the way I really wanted to Don't shake the camera No so I didn't but but but my parents did allow us to drink at home they did allow us to smoke pot

at home they did because they their whole thing and dr. John mr. Lieberman mentioned this and we keep mentioning mr. Lieberman he's a teen recovery expert at vision's treatment center which deals primarily with with the adolescents you know they felt like they had more control right and and and that we were safer because we were home and to some degree I think that's true because when I think about some of the things that I've done in terms of drinking and driving and just making poor decisions as a non-fully developed person out there, like, it terrifies me. Where did you grow up again? South Florida.

So, like, what was, when you're 16 of South Florida? What did your Friday night look like? well when i was 16 i was i was very uh focused and determined um at basketball players so like i i made a point even at that early age that i wasn't going to party um so my drinking really sort of took off when i was 18 and i moved to new york to come to go to school here uh and i was terrified because this was like another step into real life and i really wasn't prepared The problem with drinking and all this and these and using substances is that you just, you have the sense of development or like that something's happening to you while you're doing

them, but you're really like restricting yourself. You're really like preventing yourself from like being able to, like I had a problem walking into a room to like say hello to my family. Like I've said this before. Like my sister could come in and just like kiss everyone hello. which is like crazy me because y'all are twins right yeah i was very uncomfortable with even like those kinds of simple interactions with family so you know but i still think about it and i talk about this with my wife too like we still think about like yeah it would be nice to like

put on some shitty television and just have a couple glasses of wine you know like just check out and of course you can check out without doing that but like look alcohol works drugs they work they work too well you know and if you're if you're someone who has a problem um bless you nia if you're someone who has a problem then eventually that working too well is just going to put you in a very bad spot you know um we talk yes yes yeah go ahead So this is turning into more of like a Q&A sort of session here, but appreciate you guys hanging with us. Well, I think it would be interesting to talk about how you're in recovery. And obviously you talk about your kids and they're younger.

And your wife is also sober. Yeah. And so are new. And so how do you think you and your life or you are going to approach, your kids when they get older and start being curious about alcohol. Well, that's a great question because my feelings about that have sort of shifted from doing this podcast and speaking to experts because what I've been hearing from, you know, people like Dr. Kara Poland that we had on and from, you know, John Lieberman and a few others is that

actually prevention and like shielding them can be effective because the longer that they delay trying these substances, the less likely they're going to develop a chemical dependency if they are predisposed to that. So what I would have said to you before is like I probably would have a frank conversation with them at an appropriate time and be like, listen, like people are going to do, you know, We're going to experiment your kids. You're going to have fun. We are people that don't really agree with that.

And you should be careful using alcohol and drugs. Tell them why. I'll be honest. Well, I'll say. I'll say that. Like, you know, like, I mean, I don't know. See, this, I don't, I will be honest, but I'll just, I'll be honest in a way that I think is appropriate. Yeah, of course.

You know, I don't think the idea. of, well, I don't, and it's also, too, like, how young is appropriate, you know, like, is, is this conversation going to be relevant that, for me, which is terrifying, this conversation was relevant at 12 years old, you know? Yeah. Well, I think also now with kids in media, like, it's different. Like, you know, I have a nephew who's turning 13 years old, and he already is exposed to, like, you know, the vapes and this and that, and he saw my vape once, and I was hiding in and

did this stupid thing, but I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a fucking U.S. drive or whatever because honestly I was embarrassed like I was embarrassed and after like he was like I just thought you were such an angel like I didn't know that you'd be someone who would like vape and I'm like thinking myself like oh my god you have no idea of like half

this stuff I've done but like the messaging is working from my guest both sides that we didn't necessarily have where it's like vapes are here and they're what they're for but also vapes are bad and like I just remember when I was that age

it was just cigarettes like cigarettes were bad but like my parents smoked them like people still smoke them like it wasn't necessarily as much as like hiding for sure but you know what like this is where I I go back and forth between like nature versus nurture like if can you create an environment where you protect them or are they destined to just do it if it's if it's sort of in their genetics because initially my relationship to cigarettes in in in high school was I thought they were disgusting I thought they were disgusting I thought they were I hated them. But, I mean, I had that curious phase when I was younger, you know, but like the more as I got

older and I saw other people in my family who smoked, I thought it was gross. And my sister was smoking cigarettes. And I remember like being like 18, like literally being like, you know, and I'm drunk at the time, like ripping it, ripping one out of her mouth. Like that's fucking gross. You know, and you shouldn't do that. Cut, cut to like three years later, I meet a girl who smokes cigarettes and like, you You know, I'm smoking cigarettes to be cool and fit in and get her to like me.

And then that sets me on a course of a 20-year relationship with nicotine. So my attitude about it completely changed, but really at the end of the day, like I was someone that if I was exposed to nicotine, I was going to get addicted. So with my children, I really feel like I just would want them to know that. Like, this is an unhealthy thing. and we're also so, you know, I'm also someone that it's really unhealthy for and to be careful. But when I hear people like Mr. Lieberman and Dr. Pullen, I'm like actually like maybe go hard. Like really maybe like lock them up.

I mean, not lock them up, but, you know, keep them away from it. But like you can't, you know, like. Because then you also want, you want your kids to be able to talk to about it. I really know you want your kids to be able to talk to you about it. Of course. And you can't, you can't shield them anyway. My daughter is six years old. Like, do you know, like, she says things to me or, or to herself, because she'll often be, like, in the corner in some outfit, like, on her tippy toes, like, randomly, like, talking to herself a million miles a minute.

She says things that she overhears, right, and that they overhear. And, like, and so you can't control that, that channel, you know? So you just, I think a lot of times, and I hate that, like, you just, you've got to get lucky. Like, you just, you just got to, like, you obviously got to create an environment where they know what's good and what's bad. But, like, most people do that. You just hope that they have a good head on their shoulders and, you know, aren't a maniac like I behaved at various points, you know. I hope that, uh, that there was some sort of, um, through, like, line to this little mini-sode here. I wanted to get Zach on from London, but he, let me check

here. He ignored my text. So that's fine. He's at dinner. He's carving up. He's going to run. Good luck. Run hard. Run well. Keep going going. So we're going to end here. Sarah wants to the bar mitzvah story. Like there really isn't a bar mitzvah story. There really isn't a bar mitzv story. I blacked out. You know, like I had a bar mitzvah, um, and there was a vodka luge shaped like something, but it was just vodka, 1999, three, maybe? No. No, 1996. And I just, like, I'm just saying that we talk about a lot of times that there people have this, uh, people in with, um, you know, with substance use have a, have a, um, you know, with substance use have a, peculiar mental twist right like it's just not normal to be 12 13 years old and you know excited about

how you're going to get drunk at your bar mitzvah you know and then oh yeah i went into it knowing that like because it wasn't like that was the only bar mitzvah or party that i was drinking at you know um i just knew that at mine it was i would have free access and and i was going to get drunk and Like, you know, I, we just have video of me as a 13 year old kid and I just, I look stupid, you know, and I don't really remember much of it. And I think that's sad. And I don't, I'm trying to think about how I would be as a parent. Because I think to your point about like there's a fine line between allowing kids to be kids.

And we've definitely been talking about that. And then also really, you know, creating and exerting some control and helping shape their, their journeys. So it's scary to me because I just, I couldn't imagine my 12-year-old son or daughter behaving that way, you know. And I don't think it's, I imagine that, you know, it's not crazy now for, I mean, what did someone, they said 10 and a half is the average day that someone will you know

experiment for the first time I mean that's crazy and like that's what scares me about nicotine that's what scares me about weed and like I was smoking weed when I was that young too you know and and

you know and the weed was different back then right I mean I don't know if it was it got me pretty fucking stone you know I mean all I knew was is that like it took me

it altered me so but I do get scared because it's just it's so accessible you see it everywhere you know and and and and it's just not everyone can do it responsibly you know and so we should talk about it responsibly and I I don't think we do all the time so anyway we're going to put this out thanks for listening and please you know we welcome any comments or questions We are going to try to do, at least monthly, an episode where we're answering questions or, you know, discussing things that are current and happening and relevant, but send any

questions or comments our way, and we definitely will respond and talk about them on the show. Peace.