The Zac Clark Show - Revolutionizing Global Mental Health: A $100 Million Commitment with Annika Sten Pärson, Co-Founder & Executive Chair of The Inner Foundation

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Annika Sten Pärson is a change maker in global mental health. As the Founding Partner and Executive Chair of The Inner Foundation, she leads a global initiative with a bold commitment of over $100 million over the next 20 years, funding innovative mental health solutions and startups to address the crisis head-on. In this episode, Annika shares her extraordinary journey from a corporate executive in Stockholm to a leading advocate for social change. With over 25 years of experience in telecoms, media, retail, and consumer goods, she made a transformative shift to focus on mental health. Her passion is centered on the 1.8 billion "emerging adults" aged 18 to 25, whose inner worlds must be supported to foster a thriving outer world. Annika’s personal experiences—being adopted, working in social services focusing on maternal and reproductive care, navigating her own reproductive challenges, and adopting her own children—have profoundly shaped her commitment to this cause. Her past roles include serving as CEO of the Seleni Institute, which supports women’s reproductive and maternal mental health, and volunteering as a therapist at 1825 – Therapy Center for Young Adults in Stockholm, a non-profit she co-founded. We also explore the broader issue of under-investment in mental health, with only 2-5% of the $9.5 trillion global health expenditure directed toward this critical area, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). Annika discusses the resilience needed for young people and the importance of self-care for those striving to make a difference. Tune in for an inspiring conversation with a leader dedicated to transforming mental health care and supporting the next generation on a global scale. Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right, welcome back to the Zach Clark Show. I am super excited for today's conversation and today's guest, Anika Steen Parsons. How did I do? Pretty good, yes. Give it to me real. Anika Steen-Pershon. Stiann-Parsen. Got it.

Yes. All right, well, we practiced before, and I was not confident in my ability. But I know how to ask for help today, so that's the good thing about this. Before we get into your background, I'm going to start with an icebreaker. You're high so far today and you're low so far today. My God, I haven't really had any lows so far. I mean, the day is still happening, so who knows? Being in New York, for me, for me actually creates a lot of highs.

Amazing. Yes, the conversations like this or the city and everything here with all its imperfections is just the love story for me. So no lows for today. Okay, we'll take it. I got plenty of lows. I can share some of mine with you, but that's a story for another day. So Anika is the founding partner and executive chair of the Inner Foundation. That's what you're doing now currently.

But your career has been incredible. you've worked for many organizations as a sea level suite executive or a C-suite executive and you did an amazing stint at the Salini Institute on the Upper East Side here in Manhattan where you were dealing with it's a nonprofit that basically provides clinical surgery can you tell me about that it's a it's a nonprofit organization who works with what's called perinatal mood and anxiety disorder so when vulnerable women in the city who need support to everything from infertility, depression and anxiety during pregnancy, postpartum depression, those kind of questions.

So it's a clinic, yes, and advocacy work around that. I love that. I love that. I did an episode with my sister, actually, and she talked at length about her postpartum depression and kind of all the nasty stuff that comes with that and kind of the feeling that she's not worthy and how do you ask for help. And so I just love that you were involved in that work. And the reason that we're talking to you today

is that I was just so impressed. We were introduced through mutual friends and your goal is to revolutionize mental health, global mental health? Yes. Yeah, you can say that. I become very passionate. Actually, in relationship to my work here in the city at Seleney,

to see firsthand what the lack of me. mental health support can do to people. And so that one thing led to another, and I'm very focused on sort of the age group of emerging adults between 18 to 30-ish, and to really doing my work in order to support this target group in whatever way possible through investing in entrepreneurs that are doing the actual work.

Yes. And so the inner foundation, what you told me, is that you've committed over the next 20 years to invest, donate, you'd view them the same, $100 million towards this ultimate goal of yours, which is just, I mean, incredible. We need about a thousand more of you because we're staring down a pretty big problem here. The loneliness epidemic, the opioid epidemic, and with the emerging adults, you shared some wild statistics with me. Can we revisit those? Is it 1.8?

It's on the planet is 1.8 billion emerging adults. And the over-representation in this age group of mental health struggles is very severe. And for us, it's also, it's not about not about not being sick, right? It's actually about the right to thrive. So I think that's so important for us that we are sort of recognizing both part of that and not just talking about sort of coming up to the minimum level of living. It's about to, you know, the untapped potential of having 8.8 billion people to actually thrive in this important part of their life. And we need this group of young people who's supposed to do what needs to be done on this planet.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, for me, and my story is well documented. I was 27. I got sober. I'm 40 now. And when I was thrown into a treatment center for the first time, Thrive was not in my vocabulary. Larry. I thought I was going there to be able to just stay alive and that I was destined to this life of misery. And I think that's something that we try to do here on this podcast, which is give

people hope that you can not only overcome your mental health challenges. You cannot only overcome your substance abuse issues, but you can thrive. You can build whatever life you want. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think we have this saying that we are support the foundation, supporting, the inner life of individuals to live in an outer world worth living in sort of and i think by by creating an inner strength of us as a society um the out in and outer world worth living in is what we aiming to do yeah that's incredible well i'm curious i'm fascinated with human beings i'm fascinated with stories i'm fascinated how you got to this seat here today so i'm going to take it back a little bit and then we'll land hopefully again at the inner foundation

because that's the work you're doing today. Home is Stockholm. Home is Stockholm, yes. And you were born and raised there? Is that accurate? I was born and raised in Uppsala, which is like an hour north of Stockholm, yes. And you shared with me that you were adopted and your family? I have three siblings. My older brother is also adopted and so am I. And then my parents have to be biological children, so four of us altogether, yes. Do you mind me asking a little bit about, we see a lot of adoption in our work here, release, which is, I think it's probably confusing for folks who are adopted. I'm not adopted, but would you mind sharing some of the feelings as a kid growing up,

adopted? When did you learn this information, and how did you process that? No, not at all. It's part who I am. And I think it's important to be able to talk about it. I am, me and my brother sort of always known, like since we were very, very young. So it kind of, it was not like a shock or anything.

But it's also in the 60s, right? So everything was very, you know, nothing to be, that the whole idea was not to be special about it, which was always very hard for me because I think it is special. It's not like bad or good, it's just special. It's not the usual way you kind of sort of bring, into a family. And I think it's kind of my personality. I think it's important to be able to

have conversations around it. And so that was always hard for me when I was young. I was not supposed to talk about it, to sort of think you're something special because you adopted. You know, those kind of conversations was hard. And when did you finally get comfortable with this part of your... That's good. I think for me it's a, it's not a transaction. It's not like that moment. sort of came to us. It's like a transformation of life. And part of the work I'm doing now is probably sort of comes from years of going to therapy and trying to figure out who you are. And yeah. And of course, which is when I'm then coming

to the stage in life and I'm going to sort of build my own family, that thing came up again. And we were trying to be pregnant, sort of the usual way by, we had many, many runs of IVFs and everything that comes with that. And finally, we stopped that and decided that it's probably meant to be that our journey to become parents were going to be through adoption. That's so beautiful. And so you adopted, I think you told me two girls, yes, right, who are now. Now they're actually 20 and 22, yes. And you raised them in? In Sweden, yeah.

They are from China. They were the oldest. She was nine months. It was 13 months. Yeah. Incredible. We went to China and became parents that way. Yeah.

Incredible. Incredible. And so you're in Stockholm and you shared with me that you're raising your family. You're kind of doing life, your husband's having some success. and it came to a point in the road where you wanted to give your kids a different look at the world and you kind of looked around the globe and landed on New York City, right?

Yes, we did. And I sort of worked my bat off as a business person by training and our girls were then 8 and 12. And we started to having that conversation earlier than that, actually. How do we give them a chance? to sort of be who they are, sort of outside this bubble of Stockholm. I love Stockholm, and it's a beautiful city, and I, it's a, you know, I'm happy to be there,

but for, for, it's, diversity is not really there as much, so we decided to, to do, I quit my high-level job, and we, P.J. My husband was able to convince his partners to set up a little branch, a very little branch here in New York City, and we went, yes. And what did that conversation look like with your kids? Obviously, you're raising them in Stockholm. They're adopted. At some point, they recognize or realize or understand that. Obviously.

Yeah. You're sharing your experience with them. And were they excited for the move to New York? To be honest, they were 8 and 12. We didn't really ask them, in all honestly. We actually took them here to sort of experience the city of New York. And that happens to be during Storm Sunday. So it was a very special New York

If you all remember that I remember I was like close down It was like very very different And we came the day before And then they closed the city And so they were supposed to You know experience New York City And we were going to tell them that you know what

We actually going to move here So we did and they were like Okay they had we didn't really know What that would look like But but they took it on And where in your career At this point in time let the listeners know you're working at a very high level.

Yes, I was working as a big cable company similar to Comcast, but in Scandinavia I was running there sort of the consumer business there with a, yeah, I worked my bat office, as I said, and we decided to quit that and had no business card, and I was going to, I thought I was going to be easier than it was actually, to not have a professional identity, which has, I had for a very long time. So in addition to get the kids organized for school, which was a journey by itself,

I started to do some pro bono work. And New York is an amazing place for that, very well organized. And I did some work in an adoption space. I did some work on reading the news for blind people on 23rd Street at the blind center and some of those things. But I also felt that I wanted to do some more real work. I really wanted to sort of embrace myself into the space of more purpose-driven work. And I was starting to look for that, and I was lucky enough to be supported and found a place,

which is, again, the Cillian Institute, where I became the executive director and CEO. So you leave this job, and you throw yourself in. to service, which is beautiful, and you say, I'm going to show up in New York City, and I'm going to start giving back, and I'm going to see where this thing takes me. And obviously, your passion today is mental health. At what point is it when you got to Salini? Is that when you started to really identify this need? In a way, I think, again, I've been using, I've been consuming the services as an individual,

but also was very, I was always interested in, in, in, in, in, in, in, you see, I'm consuming, as, as an individual, but, but also was very, I was always interested in, inner health and mental health, but not professionally at all. So when this opportunity came along and I jumped on, which I was actually, I never worked in New York before, I never worked in an NGO, I never worked in mental health, so it was a lot of having never done kind of thing, but I worked as a business person for many, many years, of course, and that was primarily what they were looking for at that point.

So it was such a privilege to take it on board. It was really hard. I would probably not have hired myself when I started, but I think maybe when we decided to go back to Sweden and I left. But it was those years, like the learning curve was dramatic, I must say. And you were there for two years? Yeah, a little bit more than two years, yeah.

Working with, what was the demographic that you guys were serving? We were primarily vulnerable women in the city, which could be from socioeconomic. vulnerability but also other could be Afro-Americans or Latinos or and we also know that postpartum depression for example is overrepresented in these groups so so we did those vulnerable groups but we were also which is kind of interesting we also and the clinic was also open for the opposite like very wealthy women who didn't really feel that they had nowhere to go and they

were of course paying full price. And they also find a haven at Selenie to be treated and supported. This is kind of interesting. I kind of see a little bit of the work you do, similar to that, that there were a place where there were like 15, 18 clinicians was totally sort of focusing on pernated mood and anxiety disorder, very, very knowledgeable and with a high level of expertise, which was kind of unusual. That was also the idea with the Seleney Institute. Are they still around? They are, yes. Will you visit while you're here? I used to. I see them as much as I can actually.

Nizia Logetheres, which is the founder. She's still around. She's an amazing person. Incredible. Shout out to the Salini Institute. That work is vital and a lot of the listeners here are women and when we get into this conversation there's always a widespread kind of acknowledgement of how important it is to talk about this stuff because it's the things that really matter like welcoming a child to the world how do you even know yes what to do exactly so that's beautiful and while that's going on uh and if you don't want but I think you had another one of your daughters was a high achieving ballet was it she was a baller yeah she maybe encountered some of her own

Yes, she was And she's fine Me talking about it Because I checked that with her I do mention her When it's appropriate And has relevance That she was having a hard time

She was transition school I went to LaGuardia For art And she was also a ballerina And was dancing In addition to go into art school And she was struggling She had a hard time

Things were like Sort of hitting her hard and she's out of that now she's doing really well but I think what I recognize during that period of time was that mental health can sort of it hits us cross the board and no one is really safe from it and if you're but if you are

sort of in addition to that have some vulnerability as socioeconomic sexual orientation war despair of some kind it's extra it's multiplies sort of but I from a personal experience even though we had network and resources it was really hard to know and where to who to turn to and to support her and I think that combination of the work I did at Seleni and sort of experienced this sort of firsthand in my home with my own family member that that was something that really

made me think that this is not just an individual problem, it's actually sort of a systemic issue. And I sort of, when we then decided to move back to Sweden, I kind of had to do something with that insight. And that's where we get to the inner foundation, is that? Yeah, first we, when I went back to Sweden in 2018, I went back to school and basically trained therapist. I really, all those years at Sillian,

I really wanted to know what was going on in the room. I always said well I'm not a therapist but you know I wanted to see what that conversation was so I was so I went back to school I'm not licensed but I have under supervision I can I can see patients so what I did together with another partner I started a small NGO in Stockholm called 1825 therapy center for young adults between 18 and 25 therefore the name and very much influenced and inspired by the work at Cilini. So I structure it the same way with the clinic and also advocacy work and sort of work to really talk about the issue at hand. So that was the starting point

for some really my work in Sweden. And that clinic is now part of our portfolio of organization that we support. And I'm still sharing it and it's very close to my heart. And I work there every Monday as a volunteer therapist. Still? Yes, which is, that's my Mondays. I know Mondays I do some work that matters, that's for sure. I think you're doing work that matters seven days a week. That's my assessment here.

So you start the 1825 Foundation. That's still going. That's still helping people, which is so beautiful. I'm going to read a stat here because I think this is a good segue. And this is from your website. In 2020, $9.5 trillion was spent on health globally, but only 1% was used on addressing mental health according to the WHO's mental health report.

It's obviously been four years since that stat was written, and it's around the same time that you really dove headfirst into this world and solving this problem that we talk so much about and you're starting to see more influencers talking about it and the solution is complicated. The solution is complicated. So my first question is, is that number, do you think that number, you think that still holds up that that stat or? Yes. Overall, I would say it is. It has changed a little bit, but overall the, I mean, there are a couple of different stats around, but in general, the percentage of public health care that are addressing mental health is between 2 and 5%, I think.

So it's still very low. And it looks different in different parts of the world, but no doubt that it's an under-invested, under-recognized area still. But it is fair to say that after COVID and during COVID, that sort of wet blanket of don't talk about mental health was actually sort of ripped away, ripped off. And so I think there's much more of a less stigma around mental health today, for sure.

And I think all of us sort of recognize that by just listen to whatever happens in media and on the internet and whatnot. So that's a huge difference that if you go 10 years back or if you go 20 years back, It's an enormous difference in terms of where the conversation goes and kind of the discussion and the sort of the openness around mental health. Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating, right? We get one brain. Exactly.

We get one brain. Yes. That's the thing. It's probably the most important thing that we get. And we see it all the time. I mean, we do so many things on a daily basis that negatively affect the way that our our brain functions, and I think that's what's so beautiful about, you know, the statement you made earlier about this ability to thrive, and the brain is miraculous.

It will heal if given the proper time and attention, the brain will heal. And we seem to forget that or this stigma exists because it's directly correlated to our feelings and maybe this idea that if we share openly about how we're really feeling we might be viewed as weak or we might be viewed as someone that's less than I know that was a part of a part of my story like the first time that I that I said I'm not feeling great you know like I don't know what's wrong I don't want to get out of bed you know and that and that's happened to me since I got sober I mean this week I'm I'm having a hard time and I know that that means I need to get up and I need to move and I need to go for a run and I need to connect with my people.

But I think that's so, that it's not like you're going to fix your mental health, right? It's something about to have that resilience, feel that you have people around you that you can ground you and help you and support you. And I think that's what we're aiming for is not to be fixed. Sometimes, especially for young people, is this idea that I'm going to walk around and being happy, and if I'm not happy, something is wrong.

That's really put a lot of pressure on all of us, but specifically young people, sort of moving into transition into the life of adults. And so for me, it's always about, and I'm with you, like the other day I had the same thing. I'm putting my own youngest daughter is off to college and here in New York, actually on Long Island and it's been in the making for a long time but I

really that was a separation thing which has very deep roots to who I am and what I'm coming from and as an adopted person you always have this feeling of exclusiveness being excluded they're afraid of being excluded and separation is hard and so I that was you know Sunday night when we dropped her off I I really, I guess all parents are. And maybe I do it in an extra way. I don't know, but it's a... And then you have to...

I also have to call somebody and sort of talk about that. And, yeah. I think that's comforting for parents to hear that because I'm sure there's a lot of... This time of year, there's a lot of parents that are dropping their kids off at school.

And it's another thing. right like how do you deal with that how do you cope who do you talk to and and i'm here to say it's okay to reach out and ask for help it's okay to be sad it's okay to be confused i can tell just from the emotion i'm feeling from you here that it's it's something that you can't really plan for that i know and sort of having those things in place enough of things in place when you when you sort of going south is to be able to recognize the feeling, maybe having, knowing that when there was similar thing happens in the past, you know you have the capacity to actually come up again, to sort of not being afraid of actually letting those hard, sort of painful feelings

to take place in your body because you know you have the capacity to actually work on it. I think that's for me is what it's all about, sort of supporting young people with their resilience to deal with life and all its ways. Yeah, you know, and I feel like, you know, you shared with me that you and your husband, PJ, had some success, and it didn't, it wasn't, it wasn't passed down to you. You guys had to work really hard to get to where you are today at this moment in time, to be in a position to really take a passion of yours and make an impact. And for me, I always think about what's happening here in the U.S. in our country. I love and appreciate that you're not just focused on one area, but you're talking about the world at large. Can you talk a little bit about the work you're doing in Africa and some

of the investing you're doing down there and absolutely so we have mean you need some kind of boundaries to not trying to be everything for everyone that becomes nothing from no one sort of so i need to learn that one that's actually a good one i think um about strategies just not just to tell what to do but also what not to do right so we we have some big areas however europe north america and sub-sahara africa and uh because i i do some work I'm involved in an organization who's doing a lot of work in Africa, so that was the leading why we also wanted to include that in our investment sort of region. But I also think now, two years down the line, that seeing work in sort of global south and in global north and see that it's certainly not just about sort of having global north initiative going to Africa, it's a lot about the other way around, which I think it's really interesting. So one of the organization that I'm a proud board member in called Strong Minds, and the founder and CEO, Sean, he was in my advisory board at Seleni when I worked at Seleni Institute.

So I got to know him there, and then back in 2018 I was traveling to Uganda and I asked, can I come and see your work at first hand. So I went there and I saw the work, which was in the slum in Kampala, under a tree or under a porch, doing some amazing work with a method called interpersonal psychotherapy in a group setting. And countries in, like Uganda, is one of the most community-based countries on the planet, which is the opposite from the global north. Like Sweden, for example, together with the US, actually, is a very individualized country that you do things by yourself and you know 45% of all the households in Sweden are single households for example compared to a country like Uganda so the work they're doing there and through creating this group set the group therapeutic settings are amazing they really managed to get what they call depression free scores for depressed women who comes into the program which is now down to six weeks once a week for six weeks and there's a free of depression score between 17 and 80, 7 to 8 out of 10.

It's actually free of depression after this period of time. And is that because they're just never, they've never known that it's okay to talk? I think it's, it's a number of things, but stigma is of course a big thing out of that to be able to talk about and not by definition calling it those sort of words like depression or anxiety, but actually talk about the consequences

when you are having at some, something like depression. You don't connect to your family members, you're having a hard time gathering families around meals, very sort of typical things that you need to do, and the consequences are, of course, devastating. So by coming along in these groups and also working in a group setting with fantastic facilitators that take them through this journey, and a very high number of these groups continue to see one another after those six to seven weeks.

So seeing that firsthand in back in 2018, in Uganda and in Kampala, I was almost like, can I please join the board? And then when we founded the Inner Foundation, I also become one of our organization that we support financially, and they're doing amazing work. So that has led to that we also investing in a couple of other organizations.

organizations in Africa. That's incredible. I spent some time there earlier this year in South Africa, and I would share with people my story, my journey, and it was very foreign to them. It was very foreign to them. And so the fact that they know that therapy exists and they know that they can access some of these resources and that it's okay regardless of where you come from, what you look like, asking for help and feeling off is okay.

I think that sort of be vulnerable and ask for help. Vulnerability and ask for help, easy to say, but sometimes very hard to sort of actually act upon, yes. So I think leading by examples like you do, by telling your story, I think it's so important. We try, we try. And same to you. I mean, the amount of work that you did to get to this point is astounding, and that brings me to kind of the bigger, the bigger issue here, which is something, a question I ask myself every day, and it's something you asked me before when we were catching up, is what do we do? Like, how do we, because you're, you're in a fortunate situation where you have some resources to be able to contribute to organizations that are doing good work. I'm in a situation where, you know, I have this platform and these

followers and these people that, you know, really care about what we're doing and how we can make the world a better place. So I'm going to ask you the question. what has it been like for you trying to understand the global landscape of mental health resources and how have you decided to support the organizations that you support? Right. Overall, as I think I said earlier, I mean the cost of not doing anything was too high, so I kind of had to do it, and this is opportunity with the resources that we have at hand. But we could, of course, decided to do different things with them. We decided to do what kind of close to our heart, to set up a foundation, which is a non-profit foundation.

But we have what we call a hybrid model. So we do invest both in for-profits, like early stage entrepreneurs. They have a revenue stream. They sort of start up attached to their business idea. And in addition to that, we do organization like Strong Minds, so 1825 Therapy Center, or a number of others. Because our underlining belief is that entrepreneurship can come in many forms. And entrepreneurship, for that matters.

So that's part of the model that we are aiming for. And then I think it's, because that sort of the business bond, using, like, if you like, like asset classes of equity or loans or grants in a kind of a mix, and make sure to optimize. the output of that impact, that investment sort of. But we also see it. Now we have approximately 30-something organization that we support. And we also get them together twice a year,

not in real life, unfortunately, but in digital gatherings, what we call the inner gatherings. And to see how we can share, and they can share things among one another, where they're all into mental health and diversity inclusion questions. And to sort of seeing what we can, like fundraising for a non-profit

versus fundraising for an early state impact startup, is actually some similarities. To see how they can sort of come together and talk about that has been really strengthen the idea of having a hybrid model, not just from financial perspective, but also having those sharing movements in among,

our organizations. And something that we also have done, which I, I don't want to brag, but I'm kind of proud of. Bragg, come on, brag. That's not my area of expertise. But is that we have also launched something that we call the Inner Stipend, that all our organization that we support

can also apply, and everybody gets it, for a stipend to work on the founders or the CEOs, mental health, or inner health. So up to two founders. or CEOs per organization will receive a stipend of $700 per year without questions asked because we really want to make sure because we know how hard it is to run an organization for-profit or non-profit to give them a little bit of a kick in the house if I may say so to start caring about their own inner health so we just launched

this and out of those 30 organizations I think 25 of them or something was asking for the stipend and have been giving it So in the end of every year, we're now going to capture what they used it for and in what way they supported them in that journey of running whatever organizations they are running. And for me, that's, we haven't really, we haven't talked about it really. We talked about it to the organization. We haven't done any PR or anything because it's not what it's about, even if I'm telling you this now. It's more something which is such a belief of mind. We have to walk the talk.

that hits home for me i mean that hits home for me i you know i've been in the seat i'm in now running our for-profit entity release recovery running our non-profit entity the release foundation and i i will find myself at times wondering who's going to check in on me you know and and and it's It feels weak at times because I'm supposed to be out in front leading. And I'm sure there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there who feel the same way. It is. You are unfortunately in a, it's very common. It's overrepresentation of founders who really are so passionate about making change happens

that are forgetting their own well-being in that journey. And so the fact that you are aware, it's all, as we know, awareness is sort of a starting of something to have something to change. But it is, it's super important. Yeah, I mean, I tell us, I told, I mean, the story that came out a couple months ago, there was a treatment center up in Connecticut that was pretty well known and we had worked with them a little bit. And, you know, their founder, they ran into some financial issues and I don't know whether it was within, insurance or making payroll or whatever it is. And sadly, you know, he took his own life. And everyone was shocked. Everyone was shocked. They couldn't believe it. And for me, I looked at that and I said, this is so sad and it was so preventable. You know, if only he had something like this

or someone in his life that was checking in on him. And maybe he did. I don't know the full the full story but we hear those we hear those stories because when you become an entrepreneur you make a decision to go out on your own and and really do something yes there's a great hope there that it's going to work and what happens if it doesn't work what happens when you run into you know issues and and so I I support and love that you're doing that no because I thank you and and I mean the stats are there it's an overrepresentation. So I think it's important to really talk about it, to found something and being a found as really being a change maker, those extra minds that you need to go. But in order

to have some kind of longevity or sustainability in that, the caring of yourself is as much a business decision like every other business decision. Right. Well, then the hope is that those people go out and they share their stories and they share their experience. Because if If you're in a position of power, a position of leadership, and you're able to communicate in an authentic way that life isn't always easy. Exactly. That might give the person who's not in a position of power the strength to go into a room and say, hey, I need some help or I'm having some struggles.

And there's a lot of organizations in this country and in this world that probably don't prioritize mental health because they actually don't believe it's a real thing. Well, I think you kind of nail it when you say it's also a sign of weakness. And I mean, I know there are stats or studies showing that you are, it's easier to help others and help yourself. And I think that's, we also have to start helping ourselves. So the concept of compassion is like taking compassion, somebody gives you compassion.

You give others compassion, and the third one is actually self-compassion, and I think that's really hard personally, and that is something you need to practice. Right. Self-compassion. Yes. Wow. So talk to me about what's next for you and where you're a couple years into this journey. I admire the work you're doing.

I don't envy it because. Finding organizations that are going to be good stewards of your money is probably not easy, right? And for you as someone who wants to thrive and wants to succeed and wants to really make an impact, how do you go about that? How do you go out to an organization and then finally make them sure people are reaching out to you all the time, right? Because this is an organization that gives money away. I'm going to reach out to Onica and see, you know, like how I get a check. I mean, of course, it's some kind of the back end is, of course, to not waste people's time if it's not according to our investment strategy, sort of when we are kind of, of course,

we talk about, we have this geographic kind of framework of these three big regions, but we also talk about emerging adults, which is sort of a core target group of ours, and within that, we talk about that we want to support organizations that work on accessibility, affordability, destigmatize meaning this for the many people sort of using technology as an enabler for that scaling to happen that's you know and then of course there's a long list of of what we think are good investments so you can go on and on in terms of that sort of technicality but in the end of the day it's very much about meeting founders meeting entrepreneurs meeting these change-makers

and being able to support them. And we try to be always think about it as a long, sort of patient capital. You don't support an organization just for a year. You want to do that in the minimum of three to five years to have some sort of to keep being able to show results. And so all those kind of things is kind of very typical like most organizations in a way.

But I think for us it's also, I mean, we see ourselves as seeding into ecosystem of change. So for us, this collaboration, collective impact, not just saying these words, but really trying to who else is in this space, who else is working on there. Sometimes we can gather others, and sometimes we want to be part of others' work. And that is a core, core thing for us. And really, we say we never support an organization by ourselves, should also always be others. That's good for both parties.

So taking that to the next level and really trying to see where can we do the most work with our resources. Is that tapping into more advocacy work or is it more in the beginning now we have this saying that we want to focus on the to really make sure that things are really happening in reality, meaning the art of execution. Because there's a lot of thinking, there's a lot of models here and there,

but how can we take it the last mile? What is really needed in order to be community-based relevant and working with the organization that really can take that further into the real work, like Strong Minds again is a good example, a number of other organizations that we support as well. So I think collectively gathering, hanging out with other funders and see how we can co-invest together. Use sometimes maybe a grant to do a feasibility study

for a for-profit and then maybe become somebody that we invest in as an equity. So it's a combo of things. And it maybe sounds like I'm a little bit all over the place. We've been giving us time to explore, to learn, and if you're right, that keeps me up at night. to sort of, am I doing, are we doing the right thing? Should we do that instead of that?

But that's the nature of the problem, I guess, or the opportunity. Yeah, that's correct. I think when I look at the mental health landscape, there is not one answer. There just is not. And that's why we need all of these organizations doing the important work that they're doing because whether you're in Africa

or on the Upper East side of New York City or in Stockholm, the same problem exists in humans, right? We just want to be happy. And sometimes when we're not, we don't know what to do with that. So the practice on that, I think it's important. Yeah. Yeah, no, we were joking because we both showed up to this interview. You're wearing all white, I'm wearing all black.

It's like the energies were aligned or maybe they weren't, But there's something there. There's something there. I believe in energy and I believe that this conversation was meant to happen because it's different than some of the conversations that we're having here on this podcast. A lot of them are related to individuals who maybe are in recovery and have this story. And your story is a story of recovery. I mean, you're someone that was adopted and had to work through that and had this big career. year and then took a pivot and and life kind of kept showing you what your next right answer is

I mean one of the one of the prayers I say every night is God please make my next direction so clear that I can't deny it oh I love that you know like make my next direction so clear that I can't turn my back on it right and so for you I want to close and just ask why should there be hope? What are you seeing? It gives you hope. And yeah, I mean, that's... I mean, start with I see I, during this couple, in the last couple of years, you know, met with, or not met, but I've seen maybe four, 500 organizations working in the space of mental health for you, for emerging adults. I see amazing organization. I have to, I have to, And it's not hard, it's actually not hard, but I think it has to come with some intentionality to focus on the hopes, focus on things that are possible, focusing on this amazing group of emerging adult young people that has the right, but also the energy of improving their own well-being.

and also not talk to them in a way that be doing it for them because they are very much in the making themselves. A lot of the organization that we support are actually driven by murdering adults themselves. So I think it's important to always think about the target group as part of this opportunity of support. Yeah, I mean, one of the stats that I've been sharing a lot recently as it pertains to my work is that there are,

48 million people in this country, 48 million Americans that meet the criteria for a substance use disorder, of those 48 million people, only 95% of them will never get help. And I would imagine that the stats are similar for mental health. That's a problem.

However, people like you, people like myself, who are having these conversations, I always say if one person listens and they're impacted by this conversation or one organization finds you as a result of listening to this podcast and they end up working with the inner foundation and we have done our job for today. We have kind of made the deposit of hope into the bank. And so I'm just grateful that our paths have crossed.

Likewise. I'm grateful that you came in and that you had the time to sit down with me and chat and I will tell you that I'm rooting for you. I'm in your corner and I'm excited to see the impact that you continue to make. I am in your corner too. Thank you. Thank you. That's all for this episode and look her up doing amazing work, the inner foundation and beyond.

Until next time, thanks for joining us. Thank you.