The Zac Clark Show - The Love Story Behind The Bachelor: A Father’s Journey Through Addiction and Recovery | Rob Ellis

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Rob Ellis lived a double life for decades—hustling, using, surviving. To the outside world, he was successful. To his family, he was slipping away. In this raw, unflinching conversation, Rob sits down with Zac and Jay to talk about a 30-year addiction that nearly took everything—and the moment it all changed. He opens up about fatherhood, shame, forgiveness, and how his son, Grant Ellis—this season’s lead on The Bachelor—chose to tell the truth about his dad’s past on national television.What follows is a story of pain and pride, brokenness and repair, and the enduring power of love between a father and son. Rob’s recovery isn’t just survival—it’s purpose. And this conversation is a reminder that while addiction can tear a family apart, love is the antidote—it can burn through the chaos and bring everyone back to the light.Connect with Zachttps://www.instagram.com/zwclark/https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclarkhttps://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553https://twitter.com/zacwclarkIf you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release:[phone]releaserecovery.com@releaserecovery

All right, our next guest here says no edits, no cuts. Welcome back to the Zach Clark Show. I'm actually, you know, I'm thrilled because today we got, we got my man Rob Ellis with us. Rob, what's up? Pleasure. Everything is good now that I'm here with you guys. Rob's a part of two fraternities with me. One is we are both affiliated with Bachelor Nation, which is fine.

and cool and two more importantly we are in the recovery fraternity together and that's the one that we're going to talk about today I don't even know where to start with you man I'm just looking at you smiling because you're a year and three months a year in three months right how long you sober a year in three months but you forgot to tell them that I'm a part of the release recovery foundation I'm a part of release recovery yeah yeah so so here's the deal i've been here about this guy for a little while you you know how like bachelor nation they start to talk he started to get some dms i guess on grant when grant was who's grant is the lead right now he's the guy he's the guy that everyone's chasing they're

late in the season he's about to get married or engaged and uh so i guess on his the first time around he was a contestant on the bachelorette and he mentioned you right yeah he mentioned me he mentioned my journey and uh it was kind of like shocking but he spoke his truth he spoke about his dad and you know how they edited it but the cat they caught him saying my dad was an addict for 30 years plus and he lied to me but he was my superhero so my friends heard that and of course they called up what is he talking about how do you feel about i got so many calls and i said he's speaking his truth and it actually i'm a guy who so i have thick skin so to speak and whatever he said it was true were you sober at that time i was sober at that time how long i was i was when he said that

i was like two and a half months wow i came out of rehab i went to alina lodge and i came out of rehab and He was going through this journey and, you know, I was amazed. He never told me he was going to say that because obviously the show is taped and they take his phone. So I couldn't contact him. The first time I saw that was actually on TV. So the first time he, so when he went to go on the show, so you didn't get sober knowing he was going on TV? No, no, no, no. I was in rehab.

My mother had died and I just lost my mom. mine and checked in. It's not like I wasn't getting high prior, but I just turned it up about four notches. So he had been staying with me playing basketball overseas, and he would come for a couple of months and then go back. In Jersey? He was playing in the Dominican Republic in this time. I was living in Jersey. So he comes to stay with me, and he's prouding me. Dad, you know, I'm in the room doing my thing, getting high, and he's knocking on the door, look at me, you look terrible, really wanting, and it's bothering him. But I'm oblivious to his pain. I'm just doing my usual. What were you doing? I was smoking crack. I was sniffing heroin.

I would take Xanax at night. I kept the job. My drug addiction was kind of methodical. So that's why I was out there so long. And it was... You had it dialed in. I had it dialed in, but I didn't have any consequences either. Right. I was always able to get a high-paying job, and I didn't have consequences with the law. It should have been consequences. My license, I had 30 points on my license, always on probation. I shouldn't even have a license. I should have went to jail, but I was protected by God.

I mean, that's what this boils down to. Yeah, I mean, look, so let's work backwards here, because I want to get into the thick of the addiction. So, Rob, I had heard about. someone, you know, I get these DMs. You got to help so and so. You got to help so and so. And where I'm at with any of that is I'm right here. So I guess that happened on the show, a bunch of people from kind of like fans.

And then I never heard of it again. And then I kind of caught when that you were at Alina. Shout out Alina Lodge, which is a great treatment center out in New Jersey. We do a lot of work with them. Great place. Great place. Great place. And then you end up out there kind of trying to find your way in a program.

and we got the call, one, that you need a little help financially to keep you in the program, Mark Biani, right? So, like, the foundation came through. The foundation was key. You made, everything happened. It's kind of amazing. I can talk about it, but unless you're in my shoes and know my situation, I was getting ready to leave the place. I was $4,000 behind.

He doesn't let any. When you're $1,000 behind, you've got to go. He had the grace and the vision to know that something was going to happen. I was even worried. I called up the Salvation Army. I was getting ready to go into the Salvation Army. All of a sudden he tells me I just came back from this convention or something. That's where he spoke to you.

You called me and said, I have a foundation. We're going to look out for you. and I mean we're going to talk about it but it's an incredible journey in the story and I'm sure I appreciate it Well people don't understand I mean like people

Look man Recovery is all about forgiveness It's all about love It's all about compassion And it's all about taking an action So for me like As many times as I maybe had heard About your story I said

Someone's got to hit me up Like he's got to hear from this guy Right and so I heard from you The foundation stepped up we helped you out got you a scholarship then you kind of kept taking the next right action and you still had to leave and uh you came up and now now you're working for us at release recovery you know helping people paying it forward um but one thing i just jumping in you know people don't

understand that like top grade real immersive treatment is expensive yeah and not everyone has access to that you know which is why like the foundation and things like like that are so helpful and necessary. I just want to make that point. So I can piggyback off of that. Yeah. So I've never worked in recovery. That was a dream of mine.

Especially that was a dream after I came out of rehab. I was in the car business. I made money. I was thinking I want to go back. But as I got clarity, as the weeks went by and a couple of months went by, and I had some time under my belt. I was thinking like, do I want to go back and do the same thing and face the same madness? And I said, I prayed that I would be able to give back what was freely given to me and work and recovery. That's why I say the journey was so amazing because incredibly this

happened. I get to go every day and help people who, normal people, the normal people, who just have have issues with substance abuse and they deserve to get love. They deserve to be talked to because, you know, there's so much of a person's a drug addict or he has mental illness or this or that. Everybody has their own little story that needs to be told and they need to be supported. You know how people say he's the black sheep of the family when they have a park. He's not the black sheep of the family he just has a problem that he can't deal with you know what i mean so it's it's i'm i'm eternally grateful and thankful that i have the opportunity and i hope it just goes further from me i'm hoping i'm able to touch more people and speak about this speak about the stigma you're doing

it right now i mean with this conversation i mean you know and and the fact like i'm very mindful right like I'm very particular, even having you on here a year and three months. Like I want to make sure people are good and solid in the recovery when they start telling their story because I want you to be a beacon of hope. I want you to be that light for other people, right? And so when we talked about you coming on, you hit me right between the eyes. You said, people need to hear this story. Yeah.

People need to hear this. And that's the truth. Yeah. The three of us up here, we're going to help someone today. Yeah. And that's the main thing of this podcast. And, you know, and I know that about you. You know, besides the people that you know and, you know, Bachelor Nation and all of that,

I know you have a heart for recovery. I know that you generally care about people because you've been there. Fuck, yeah, dude. You say crack, you say heroin. I'm like right there with you. Yeah. We would have been running around Patterson together. Man, I'm running around Patterson for a long time.

How many years you were out there? So Patterson, I picked my places. So I'm 62. I got sold at 61. So I got to stop using. That's when I went to my first rehab. Bro, 60. So you?

61. And I started getting high when I was 15 years old. And I went through decades and a whole lot of money, burned down businesses, lost apartments, lost cars. And I was so resilient. I used to just say, this is just part of life. I was so blind. when I first came into recovery

and I had a counselor and he started to tell me look inside yourself and find out where how did this start I was like what I was like I never did that

yeah I had some missing I've been shot a couple of times you know stabbed a couple of times I don't want to relive that that's behind me and I started peeling back the layers and I was like man I was fucked up you know what I mean a lot of people go through childhoods like that

and they don't go in my direction but a lot of people do what I did and they die from where were your parents growing up yeah so my mother my mother is from the Dominican Republic she came over here when she was 19 very successful woman had a beauty parlor that's who you get your luck's from that's where I get I like that you know my father my father was actually Jamaican and Scottish. Oh, wow. That's a nice. So you got Dominican, Jamaican, Scottish?

It's a nice. So my dad, my dad died at 50 years old. His father died at 50 years old. And I had a heart attack at 50 years old. And my son saved my life. So wait, hold up. Your mom had you at 19? No, my mom came from the Dominican Republic at 19.

And how'd you when? So we have, there's two of us, my sister and me. My sister's now 65. She's three years older than me. So my mother was born in 33, and I was born in 1962, so I'm going to say 20, 31 years old. She had me, not young. My sister was first. She had her like 28 years old.

My mother and father got married, a traditional wedding, then waited a couple of years, had children. My father worked a Ford Motor Company. I come from a middle-class family. In New Jersey? In Canarsie, Brooklyn. Oh, okay. So I grew up in an Italian neighborhood. There was no black people.

And so I had to deal with the fitting in. Do you remember that? I remember, like, the back of my hand. So growing up... Racism. Racism was crazy. I could walk around my neighborhood, but there's no other black kids could walk.

walk in my neighborhood. They would get chased out of the neighborhood. And also, if we walked 10 blocks south, the projects were there. White people didn't go to the projects. So I used to take my bike and go to the projects. And you know what they told me. The black kids would call me, you're a white boy. You live in the white neighborhood. And then I would get the end word, nigger. I would get called nigger from the people in the neighborhood. But I had a This I have an incredible story There's a there's a mob family called

The Testers It was Michael Tester, Joey Tester Vinny Test and Sal Tester Michael Tester was my age He died of an overdose He was my best friend He died of an overdose the age of 27 You were running with him?

I wasn't running with him My parents moved to Jersey when I was 18 But I know the family the family kind of protected me I was Mike that Michael was the youngest I was young I was 10 11 12 13 and they said if you see Rob

in the neighborhood don't even I used to be able to go in the house without knocking on the door no black people went in the house but I was friends with the younger brother the older brother was like kind of gangster type they all went to jail

one of them got shot you know if you look up test the family from Karnasi, their notorious family. So they kind of protected me and gave me some kind of bravado in a bad way like I thought I was tough and I always tried to fit in and I fought every day from a young age. That's when I started drinking. We would buy beer and started drinking smoking weed. But my mom and my dad separated. Crazy story. So my dad, he was like a gigolo. He dated stewardesses and my mother had this boyfriend i hated him his name was fernando what's up with fernando i don't know where my mom passed away at the age of 89 last year

this is man i was like 10 11 years old this is what i did in recovery i replayed the tape and i wrote down i journaled a lot and i and i said i journal i said what happened what happened Did they ever sit you down So like on the race thing Did they ever Did your parents ever sit Because that had to be Confusing

My father I used to come in when I was younger And say A kid outside You know messing with me Beat me up My father used to come outside And he used to say

You got to fight the guy And if he said You don't fight him You don't have to deal with me in the house So since I was like eight years old I was I was a brawler I was crazy brawler that's some of my issues I saw I saw the first person died like I was 10 years old it was a liquor challenge his name was T-Paul they gave him a bottle of liquor I remember it was New Year's Eve they gave him a bottle of liquor said if you get drink this liquor we're going to give you a hundred dollars he tried to do it he went into shock and they put him in the shower He died. He was only 13 years old.

That was the first. You saw that? I saw that. So, and I didn't tell my parents. Yeah. I didn't tell my parents that. I ran in the house, you know. I was already smoking weed at that time, you know, drinking a little.

You just were interested in, in partying. Party in and fitting in. Yeah. And I grew up doing the wrong thing. Yeah, but fitting in is like that's the thing that sticks for, me yeah like that's what I we're all trying to just fit in we try to fit in and so you know that that that's kind of like the story and then I moved to New Jersey in my last year high school to a new town in Passaic Park New Jersey the new town and I was already wild in high school

I was already wild like I you know anybody said anything to me I would fight I would get high smoke weed no coke yet when I moved to New Jersey Jersey, I didn't even go to my last year high school. All I did was wanting to deal with girls. Remember, my family was middle class. We lived in a nice neighborhood. My father works for Ford Motor Company. So I would bring girls to the house and they would be like, you live here? I'd be like, yeah. So I went like I did when I lived in Canasi. I lived in the good neighborhood. I went and found the hood. and I looked around and I said, okay, I could sell

weed and make money there. Started selling weed. What years is this? This is like 1990. This is 1979, 1979, 1980. I mean, it's like dirty. I mean, it's like you're selling weed with stems and seeds. Yeah, not, definitely not what they have now.

Dine bags. Yeah. I used to sell joints, but I graduated from joints selling Coke, selling dope. It was a progression. How did you get into that, though? I mean, like, I... So, yeah. I was mischievous.

I always, I was like I had a hustles mentality. I'm from Brooklyn. So I used to do bad stuff. We used to come from... Do you remember when it used to be... You guys are younger than me, but they used to be a show called a Budweiser Summerfest.

It used to be a giant stadium. They used to have all these groups. They call it the Hot 97-something now. It was originally called a Budweiser Summerfest. Me and my friends used to come from Brooklyn to New Jersey, and we used to rob people at the Budweiser Summerfest. Was you taking Budweiser's or money? No.

You know, at half, at intermission, you know, the concession stands. It used to be the Harry M. Stevens concession stand. They used to have these big bottles of ketchup and mustard. You know, people go at halftime, Frank footers, whatever. They didn't have all that chicken fingers. This is a long time ago. So we used to wait to like the end of intermission,

and we used to take the bottles and throw them against the wall behind the people. They used to all run in the back. We used to jump over the counter and take the money out of the cash register. So I did that for three consecutive years, from 15 to 18. They caught me when I was,

18 years old. My father drove. That was before we moved to Jersey. My father drove all the way from Brooklyn to New Jersey to pick me up, and he whipped my ass all the way from New Jersey back to New York. After that, he said,

I'm moving to New Jersey. He moved to New Jersey. And so I was just you said, how did I know how to sell weed? I did. I did a lot more to sell weed, but I was just, I had to mentality you know not because my parents neglected me I gravitated toward the

bullshit but all this time I mean like this is my question because like what I I know you to be a good man like I know you to be someone who's got a big heart full of love of course I know we all can turn it on when we need to but did you know that's like did you think you were a bad person or did you were you just trying to get by so i wasn't trying to get by people hear these stories and they'll want to judge okay so i wasn't get i was a product of my culture i was a proud i wasn't i had a good family i i didn't feel accepted my family i did but i ran with kids i used to go to the hood and i didn't do it because i wanted to i wanted to be down with them i was always I always had empathy, you know what I mean?

Because, you know, I did a lot of bad things that I'm not proud of. I thank God that I never really hurt anybody. But it wasn't because it was, I just wanted to be that guy. I wanted to fit in. They would pass me a joint or a quarter. I didn't really want to drink a lot of times. I was like, they're drinking. I'm going to drink too.

They smoking. I'm going to smoke, too. And after, like, a couple of years, it was just normal for me every day. I did it every day, every day. It's not like I had to do it. My story is not unique, but it's my story. You know what I mean? I just did it every day for a long time.

I'm a miracle. It's just a miracle that I'm still here. I lost a lot of friends along the way. Yeah, 15 to 61. That's a long. Yeah, you know. And that's decades. Yeah.

So my daughter's 34, my son's 31. My whole, I was married for 29 years. I held that woman hostage. I had a beautiful, she's my buddy now. But I fumble that, you know, because of my addiction. So you, yeah, go ahead. Well, I just was going to, let's go back, like, you know, where, what is you're using like, you know, you're 18, now, you get or did you go to college like when did you meet your wife like what happened i did not go to

college so remember i told you i when i moved to besiek i went and found the bad neighborhood it was called oak street so oak street i used to sell weed and stuff and there was this this is how i got in a car business up the street there was this wholesale his name was sid hansford he was black and he i used to see him and he would talk to me every day because i'd be walking up and down a block He said, where you from, blah, blah, I tell him. And he said, he knew I sold weed and stuff. He said, that ain't no money. He said, he told me, you could sell a car and make this one.

He taught me how to sell cars. But I didn't do it right away. I sold weed, and I started within a year I was selling cocaine. And plus, that's when I started sniffing. I was probably about 19. I didn't sniff. I smoked weed and drank. but as soon as I started selling

and I got turned that little area the ball was called with 12 aces that's really what turned me on to more kind of drugs we used to go to New York and I used to buy angel dust and I used to buy angel dust but I saw the way it would make my friends

I would get high and then I would come down and I would stop they would continue to smoke it and you know they would act strange so I still smoked it, but I didn't continuously smoke. I tried a lot of drugs. I was never a pill guy.

It was mainly, it was weed, drinking, it was dust. Then it graduated. I added on cocaine to that. No smoking yet, just sniffing. I used to have these marks. I sniffed a lot of cocaine, a lot of cocaine. So I did that from probably around 19 to like 22. And I learned this car business with this guy, Sid, it started, I started cleaning cars.

And I had a little money because I lived. Line of coal, clean a car. Line of coal, clean a car. Exactly. And then I was always hustling. How can I make money? I'd be selling cleaning cars. I used to charge for a detail, $100 a detail.

In the early, in 1982, that's a lot of money. I used to try to do a car a day. so my father got sick at that time he had a heart attack he developed sugar diabetes this is in 1981 so he tells me him he tells me my sister had already gotten pregnant left at a young age i felt abandoned by her too i'm going past my story because it's so long there's so many years yeah so my father gets sick and my mother's dominican man when i told you my father had the house he asked me do you want this house the mortgage is nine hundred dollars i'm going to give you the house me and your mother building a house overseas i say no dad you keep the house i'm going to

get an apartment my first apartment i was paying 475 a month a one-bedroom apartment on paulson Avenue in 1983. My mother and father built a house in the Dominican Republic, amazing house. My father's there seven months, and he has a sugar attack and dies in his sleep at 50 years old. He was my best friend. I lost it. Now I turn up, but I'm young and strong. So even though he was knocking you around and he was. Oh, that was. He didn't It was safe It was love

It wasn't abuse He whipped my ass That's what they did back then You do wrong You get your ass whip I got my ass with It wasn't he come home He wasn't drunk

It wasn't none of that My father beat me down Because I disrespected him You had me come out here You robbing people You don't have to rob people But I didn't listen to my parents You know

I did my own thing So my dad died and before that when we were living in a prosaic i got shot twice i put my mother through that you know going to a club i wore a gold chain i was going to get robbed i got shot in the leg once i got shot through my arm here looks into this story and i have battle scar it went through my arm didn't hit any bone and it got caught my stuck in my belt buckle i got shot that the bullet was in my belt buckle That was the first time

The second time I got shot with 22 in my leg in the Bronx We should go to this club called a disco fever He's in the Bronx Guy comes up to the window We smoke and weed in the car He comes up to the passenger in the window puts the gun in and says

Give me your chain And I'm going to take it off He said you're not moving fast enough And pop me I gave him the chain I drove all the way back And went to St. Mary's Hospital In Passage

But that's not That's not targeted no that's just they see they see your change they come up I wasn't targeted but I was in the wrong place Zach I got you I went you know how for me

going to get drugs was just as much suspense as using drugs the lifestyle was suspenseful for me you know what I mean so I did that you know I made a lot of money my father died 50 years old

he left me a left me a brownstone in Brooklyn on Hancock Street between Marcy and Tompkins. If I would have had that, you know, in hindsight, it was a brownstone turned into a multiple dwelling. So I lived in Jersey at the time. Every time I tried to come at the first of a month, nobody home. That went on for like about a year and a half, and I just sold it. I sold it for pennies on a dollar. Yeah, you know, I was young. I got you. Yeah, you don't want to know what that Brown has. No, I kind of know, but I don't want to know.

Right. You know what I mean? So that happened. And at any of this point, when you get shot or any of these situations, are you thinking, like, I got to change. I got to stop. No. No. No.

I'm living good. I'm single. I got my own apartment. I got money. I could do drugs. I have no consequences. I got shot, but I'm not in jail. I got driver license

I got money I can go out I can jump on the plane and go take a vacation for a few days I'm good Yeah why would you stop Yeah I get it

Why would I stop? I thought it was normal My friends are doing that Maybe they get in a little trouble They go into jail But you know my mind I'm slicker than that I'm not going to jail

When I get pulled over I got my paperwork And the cop asked me You got in the car I'm a wise guy. No, I ain't got nothing in the car. You don't want to check, even though I have it in my pocket, some coke or something. So I had no consequences.

And let me back up a little. When I lived in Pasoacro and parents did, I did get busted with a pound of weed in front of the house. I got a slap on the wrist. My father did something. I didn't even get a record for that. So that was the first time. I got in trouble when my father came out to the Budweiser suburb fest, but I was underage then.

So I just got, I got, I didn't even have to go to court for that, you know. I guess they didn't have no proof. They just caught a bunch of us because they knew we robbed the place, but they didn't actually see us. Now, you know, today they had the video cameras and all of that. This was in 78, probably. It's a long time ago. You two weren't even a twinkle in your parents' eyes.

Let's go. I'm 84. I'm 84. I'm not that young. I'm 41. So, so let's get this straight. You rip and you run for many, many years. Many years. I mean, you can sit here and tell us stories for hours. Yeah, that's, yeah. It's not going to help anything. Grant, when you meet, you meet your wife. So I meet my wife.

So I used to sell cars to entertainers. So I used to go to the stars. I used to go to a lot of parties. She was a model. So I actually used to go out with her friend And I used to go up today They lived together four of them And she used to be, you know Like a little quiet

And I used to talk to her And the one I went out with It was kind of wild And I used to be tired I'd sleep there And she would come bring me breakfast We were friends first And then

She she We were friends for like For almost a year and then I found out she was having some problems or something and I told her you can come over just jokingly come and stay with me I lived in Edgewater at the time yeah nice yeah so she came over and so we we were friends for like months after that until one night we weren't friends and we just we just had a bond it was a physical attraction more but she was a good girl she was from Texas. Father's a pastor. She's not from New York. I'm New York. It's like a yin and yang.

When she went out with me, she felt like she was safe, you know? Yeah, you protected her. And you made that work for 29 years. I made that work for 29 years. And when does Grant, so it's Grant, and then what's his older sister's name? Taylor. Taylor is my first born. Okay. Yeah, so Taylor, Taylor was born in Palisades Hospital. And you know what I said to myself? When my daughter was born, I held and said, this is the day I stopped using. Yeah. Same thing happened with Grant. This is the day I stopped using.

I mean, that's what they talk about. No human power. No human power is going to get us sober. I mean, I sat there in the hospital after getting the brain tumor. I landed in Philly after getting married. Like, I had so many of those moments where I declared I was done. But what's your wife's put, like does she know about your drug using? I mean, it sounds like she comes from a good family.

She's not from New York. I hit it well. You hit it. Yeah, I'm not, I'm only sniffing that, and I'm not really, remember, I'm in the car business, so I know I need my driver's license. I'm not drinking like that. I'm not turning up like that. If I'm going to a place, I'm drinking, but I'm not getting a car driving home drunk.

I was kind of rational, you know what I mean? I'm not doing that. But then, then I start finding out about dope. And the first hit I took a dope It was a rat I was like So this is like 1990 Did this is about 1990

My daughter's born Yep by 1990 I was probably 28 That's when I first got dope That was good Well I mean look I know how this shit has changed Yep Because dope kind of comes along

And then You know what is it About a decade later Then the pills really start to so I'm curious you tried dope for the first time which is heroin for people that don't know

and you're hooked immediately loved it loved it that's my daily habit the coke I don't if I get it but I'm not going to look for coke

no more I'm going to look I'm going over the bridge from Edgewater the bridge is right there I'm going to Harlem I'm getting dope the dope is making

me feel like Superman. And it's a dope bat. Is it clean? Oh, it's clean. I got it in Harlem, 116th Street. And, you know, the reason why I didn't, I wanted to try to shoot it, I was going to try it, but I used to see the dope things. They used to have abscesses, the big hands, and I said, I just was too scared.

It's not that I was scared of a needle. I was scared to get those arms like that. So I never tried that. I just used to sniff, sniff, sniff. And I would stay up, and I would feel incredible. all day long and I would be able to work all day long. Yeah, medicine. And plus I was younger, I was younger.

So the dope was, that was my love. That was my new girlfriend, my wife. Now I love dope. And so Grant comes along and you swear off dope and that doesn't happen. I swear off dope. Now, that doesn't happen either. Now I got two kids.

I got tailing Grant. My wife's not working. I'm making money. Everything is fine. I'm getting high every day. She doesn't know anything. She might say, well, if I take her out,

like if we get a babysitter and I take her out, she'll see me drinking, but she don't know what I got in my pocket. Ever. Ever. Until later, that shit didn't let it ever, yeah. She started finding everything, you know,

but for the first one, my kids. Because you got sloppy, right? Yeah, I got sloppy. No, because then I started smoking crack. I put us. track pipe here. I'd be forgetting where I put the drugs. Where did I put that shit? The progression.

Yeah. But it just took so much longer for me, you know? And you thought it was working, right? You were successful. You had the car business you're selling to the stars. I thought this was normal. I thought like everybody does it. I'm selling the cars. I had Biggie was my client.

I sold cars in the Wu-Tang Clan. They didn't do the drugs I did, but they was always smoking weed and drinking. Drinking heavy. You know, they didn't know, you know, I was living definitely a double life. I didn't like weed. After I found out, I found the dope, weed is like, that's, it's too much. You burn holes in your nice clothes with the seeds.

They used to pop. I had a couple times that I was like, this is not. Kids don't know what it's like to have a seed pop on them. Yeah, they don't know that. They don't know that. Sucking on all these vapes. Yeah, so. And none of the dude, like, I didn't know when you worked with, you're selling it

any you know these people you have relationships with them like no one knew that you were using drugs or that you had people knew people kind of knew but they didn't know to what extent they thought maybe I was drinking smoking weed a little they didn't know I was a full bone yeah went a headache they didn't know I didn't I wasn't disheveled I had nice clothes I went to sleep at night I just got high every day I didn't go buy out the block you know I bought a you know how do they call it to get off e so i'd buy a couple bags a couple bags i would never keep any to the next day i was that kind of drug out of you say to yourself oh i'm going to keep these four till tomorrow they never lasted no but i would go back the next day i burn up a car's over the years

just driving to drug spots you know but i was in the car business a car wasn't nothing for me to have a car get a new car plus i made that's a man that's That's why my addiction lasted so long. I had no consequences. I had a good paying job, and I didn't get checked by anybody. My wife never checked me. She knew, but she didn't work. She stayed home.

Is this a conversation you're having with yourself throughout this whole period? I mean, now you're a father. You've got two little kids running around. Are you looking at them thinking, like, is there a battle between, like, you know, Rob the father and Rob the dude who's... running around, you know, using drugs. Okay. There is that battle, but the battle to be a father did not overtake the battle to be a drug addict.

And that's the thing, though. Yeah. That's the thing that people who don't have any experience with addiction will never understand. Right. How could you possibly choose drugs over your family? I mean, I did it every day. Well, you know something, Zach?

That's the, when we get some kind of separation from that, you do, you do kind of think about what kind of man you are to do that. You know, I did the best I could, but I was possessed by drugs. I just, drugs was, drugs were my life. I did things that I wouldn't do now, no way that I did then. I cheated on my wife multiple occasions. That wasn't right. My wife was so beautiful.

When I took her out, everybody used to turn around and look at it, but I was just so hooked on drugs. My mind was just, you know. I just trucked along every day thinking there'd be no consequences. The forcett would never turn off, and it went decade after decade after decade. And the spot in Harlem never changed? Yeah, the spot changed, but I found a new spot. They get busted, I go around.

And you never got popped. I never, I got pulled over, but I never, I was, listen, I had a car where I could put it in the car. My license was always good. My insurance was always good. I always had a nice car. When they pulled me over, I had a mount. Why are you pulling me over? You know, and you're in a drug spot?

Oh, every spot in New York is a drug spot. I'm going home. Here's my paperwork. I'd have drugs on me. And when I didn't, if I was in New Jersey, and I got, I could, twice, I went through a checkpoint. I ran from the cops. I had a dealer played on my car.

I waited and waited until it got like three cars up. When they came on the other side, I turned the lights off. and left. The dealer plates used to have numbers, and then they had a prefix. The old plate one, two, three, all the way up to 15. So when they came, I said, I lost that plate. I reported it stolen. I was the biggest bullshitter that you can believe. And there was no, it wasn't cameras and all that around. I mean, like nowadays. There are no cameras. You can't do that now. Yeah. They got the camera in the car. so you do your best to raise these kids the drugs are kind of running your life at what point do your kids first are they old enough to know that you're doing drugs so when does grant first look you in the eye and say dad you got a problem so so my son I was living vicariously through him when I knew he could play sports he never knew 12th grade he's like a

he's already six foot you know he can jump to the moon he's a quarterback of football he can play any sport he's great he tells me he wants to start playing basketball so there's something i always wanted to be i was never good enough to play basketball my friends they play in high school i'm getting high they're going to college i'm on the block selling so now i say ah my son going to be a pro. I'm thinking like that. But I'm living vicariously through him. Like, you know, I'm not pushing him like that because my son, he used to drive skateboard and stuff, you know. We lived in a nice neighborhood, so we didn't live in the hood. I had a nice house. I bought a house in Independence. So that's where he grew up.

Public school or private school? No, my kids always went to private school. My daughter went to Pope John High School in Sparta, New Jersey. my son went to one year of Hackettstown High and he played for them and then he transferred he was coached by Dan Hurley which coached coaches

Yukon at St. Benedict Oh, he went to St. Benedict? My son went to St. Benedict's. So I made so many wrong moves and I was high going, dealing with the coach I used to, you know, a lot of things I did.

You roll up on Dan Hurley and tell him. He's so jacked up that guy. Yeah, I used to say, why you're not playing grand? He used to fucking tell me because he don't listen and he don't listen. Where does he get it from? Yeah, he didn't say that. Where did he get it from?

But I never knew. I was oblivious. I think, I thought, well, I didn't teach him good. He grew up in this neighborhood. He'll get it. And then the years went by. He was a good athlete, but listen, his friend is slow-mo, Kyle Anderson. Oh, yeah?

Grant played with him on the AEU team. And I used to say, I used to ask the coach, why he was giving the ball to Kyle? Give it to Grant. He used to say, if I give it to Grant, we're not going to win the game. If I get, we win it. We're the champs, right? We just, he shut me right up. He said, I give it to him.

And then he said, Kyle's going to be a pro. There he is. He is. He has. It's been a pro for 10 years. So I was always trying to live by Clarice to my son You know, but he never knew My kids didn't know That's crazy

You were doing drugs They didn't know, listen They didn't know about drugs like that They didn't know, they didn't grow up in the hood Yeah, but I don't care I mean like, whether you know about drugs like that or not I mean, I guess this is like This is the thing for parents and loved ones

And I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen a crack pipe But it's pretty obvious If you find one of those things, what's going on? But we will fail to, we'll just, we'll assume, like, we believe in people so much. You say it's not yours? Okay. I said that many of times, but my kids never found the crack.

But you were good. You were good. You were like the consummate actor. Yeah, and I used to keep it in the car. I didn't bring it to the house. When I started getting exposes when my kids left for school, it was only me and my wife. She would get, you know, I want to use your car. car to go to the store

find a crack pipe I'd be in the basement she'd fucking look around find the pipe she finds some heroin when she found out when I was doing heroin you do heroin I had been doing heroin

for like 20 years already she was like I had two heads like you're a Martian but that's one of my things that I get it's funny right that reaction from your wife, like, you do heroin. Like, I think people got to catch up a little bit. Like, that's not a dirty word.

No, it's not. Like, that's, that's, it's an opiate. It's an opioid. People have been doing it for many, many years. It sounds bad because people overdose, but the more that we stigmatize that word, the more that people are going to kind of shut, shut people out, right? Like, so I'm all about, like, normalizing, like, it's just heroin. What, it's 100%.

100%. But when you have, see, now it's different when I was coming up don't forget she's a small town girl if I would have if I would have had a girl from the inner city she would have known years before

and you know something guys I even though I was oblivious to treatment I used to be driving up to the house and many of times I said to myself is she going to grab me today and say you need to get help Did you want that?

I wanted that so bad She never did that My wife was cold Like She grew up With her parents And her father I saw that

Where her father was like Stoic You know Like he's an old Railroad guy And they didn't hug Like that And so my kids

My mother was very Did you ever get sick Like going to Grant's games Or going to tell Like did you ever A dope sick? Yeah I got sick But I always

Listen, I left my family in Bermuda. I bought, listen, you could fly like that. Before 9-11, I would have bundles with me. And I'd go on a week vacation and have like, I'd say I have like 30 bags. By the fourth day, it'd be gone. I wake up sick and I would say, here's the credit card, the checkbook. I got to go. I left my family.

I did so much bad shit, Zach. Of course I got sick. but I always I prevented that now fentanyl doesn't have legs so when you use heroin the way I did you could last

I mean you get a stomach ache and you start having the runs and stuff but I wouldn't get to a point where I would be throwing up I would always find a way to get more well that's what you talk about I remember being sick then the chase and it wasn't even about

it's about knowing that about to pick up you would almost you would almost start feeling better it's crazy yes mentally so you know but what do you think stopped you from one of those days pulling up to your house instead of your wife grabbing you you being like take it and send me away you know what stopped you you know what stopped me is seeing my kids and my wife she didn't work who gonna pay the mortgage who's gonna pay for private school. I said that to myself many a time. You know, I made money, but I didn't save no damn money. You know, I was co-mingling money. I give her, like the mortgage would be due. I have the business. I give it a checkbook to the business. She were paid. My life was a wreck.

So I was like, I said to myself, I didn't know about recovery, it's dirty days. I didn't know about a detox like that? I didn't know. I said, they're going to send me away for six months. Who are going to feed my kids? It never, the thought was like this. Look, it flashed by me like this. I thought about it, but I didn't think about it.

Running around where you were running around, is it safe to say that not a lot of people were leaving those neighborhoods and going into their treatment? 100%. Right? I mean, that's... 100%.

Treatment now is so much better than before. And you're talking about the stigma, the stigma back then was even, oh, he's going to a rehab. And I thought about that, too. Yeah. That, you know, but, you know, I didn't think I was that bad. Well, you were able to, and that's almost why people ask me about booze. Like, I think alcohol in a lot of ways is worse because you start crashing cars and ruining your life and making bad decisions. You can play the heroin game for a long time.

Right. Because in a lot of ways, it works. It kind of, kind of preserves you to. I don't know. I don't know the logistics act. Now that I work at release, I get to analyze a little bit more. And my recovery has been such a good journey that I want to know these things because I can talk to somebody else about it.

Like, this is what you're going to go through, A to Z. and I see how when a guy first comes into recovery he's kind of gung-ho and it's like this and it's like this it's like this and it's like this the emotions are like crazy and you know you think that if you've been a person like me that think like I got this and you don't completely surrender like I'm going to take these suggestions and see somebody and say you know something

I want what he has and try it because you know how for me I said I got this I can do this on my own I never asked anybody you know at the end I was asking my wife I got friends with money she was like oh can I have $5,000 and it's like Rob me you need $5,000 to pay the mortgage embarrassing she calling people that I know now I'm exposed and they she got the checks I had to pay I had to borrow My daughter went to bail the university. I had to borrow money to pay her school.

That was embarrassing. I didn't give a fuck. It went through my mind for like 30 seconds. I was like, oh, well, I'll pay him back. I never paid them back. Well, you can do that. There's a great men's process that you're going to set out on. Eventually you'll get to pay all these people back.

I get to make men's. And you know what? That's the wonderful thing about this. There is life after addiction. Well, the way you're talking about it is inspiring to me because I think there's a lot of people that would hold back on some of this stuff. So I thank you for that.

And I guess I'm just curious. So Grant goes to, like Taylor. Is Taylor? Taylor. Taylor goes to Baylor. Grant goes to. Iona. Iona.

He played? Yeah, he hoops. He played a little. He trained. his thing is a little sketchy but he graduated that's all that counts he got his degree you know what I mean so does Taylor and you were to separate it at that time at that time we were kind of rocky we got separate Grant Taylor graduated before we got separated we got separated Grant did not while we were we were going

through it while he was still in college so I'm gonna tell you one story so my wife never worked she worked little Josh she was a professional professional student. We got a real estate license, insurance license, all that. And I told it, go, go, go. So she tells me, now I lost my house, foreclosed. I'm living crazy now. So about 2015. I lost the house in 14. We moved from a house that I'm paying $4,000 a month mortgage to an apartment. So my wife is like, she don't curse, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying she was looking at me like dude you were raggedy and i'm having a problem paying my daughter's cool my life was stressed like that from day one when i was married it was like i was taking on

too much and i you always figured it out and i didn't know how to deal with it well were the drugs escalating i mean what what like you you were you were making it work you were managing it for so long why did it why did it start to change you know why because i started to I needed more money. I had two kids. Now the wife, she doesn't want anything cheap. She was a model. I had to put those appearances up.

New car, nice apartment, private school. The kids, you know, wearing all these nice clothes. It went from me spending $5,000 a month to now me spending $10,000 a month. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's stressful. You know what I'm? Plus, dealing with my habit,

I'm living a double life. It's like I'm juggling. You know how you're juggling, juggling life? It's crazy unbearable, but it's working on the surface. And when do you get called out? Like when do you get checked for the first time?

Buy your kids, buy grant. Okay, so my daughter never checked me. She's my daddy's girl. She goes away to school, and she knows, but she, you're going to be all right, Dad. She never checks me, never, you're okay, come in, she come in after school. Yeah, but that's 18 years. I mean, she's 34 now.

That's 16 years ago she did. My daughter never checked me. All right. Only time she checked me was when I came out of rehab. You good, dad, you're going to be all right. My son, soon as he starts coming. coming back, like he's at Iona, I'm coming to the game. Dad, you're looking crazy.

He's probably 19. You look, this is when he starts voicing it. He probably knew it earlier. And don't forget, now I'm only repairing my relationship since he's been on The Bachelorette. And I went to rehab. No, I hear you. I want to get to that, though.

Yeah, I never discussed my addiction. Like, he's the one who exposed that. I didn't discuss it with him and sit down. shortly i did it short you know he tells me you did the best you could but we never he still is guarded he's still guarded from that so he i get exposed then but he's not really because he's living his own life playing basketball doing this he transfers to another school i'm his father and he asked me dad could you send me some money i i was there it's not like um he's calling me my phone is like disconnected yeah you're still showing you

out. I was showing up, but not showing up. So he's calling me out. Then my wife is like, I can't deal with you no more. I'm going to my parents. I'm going to Texas. My mother's developing Parkinson's. And I was like this. Bye. No resistance I gave her. She goes to Texas. She doesn't really have a career. She asks me, what am I going to do? so my son is like happy for her my daughter her their relationship is kind of strange so she goes out there and says what i'm going to do i'll say does there a mercedes deal over there i said get dressed up nice go to the dealer they're going to give they're going to train you how to sell cars and you basically know from hearing me they give her a job a guy walks in like eight months

later a millionaire he proposes to her she says i'm married she asked me for a divorce she marries a millionaire she has no problems she buys her anything she wants so in the interim now this is in 2017 i'm still i she had asked me to come down to texas but my mother was alive me and my mother that was my rider died so my tailor knows that i get high but she doesn't think I have a problem. Even though she knows that the house got repossessed, she's kind of living her own life and never judged me. But my son's bothering him. While he's in school, he's not flourishing in basketball. He's doing his grades, but he's just getting by. He transfers to another school. Long story short, he winds up, he goes to Iona, then he transfers from Iona.

to Southern University. Then he goes to Southern University and ends up at a deep-three school. It's Albertus Magnus in Connecticut. He plays basketball there and finally averages 20-something points a game in his senior year. Graduates gets his degree.

His godfather is a fever agent, basketball. He gets grand a stint, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico. He's playing overseas, making a little money. Now he's coming on off-season. to visit me my wife is gone taylor's she's doing her thing she's a model she's living in

new york making money it's just me and him he's looking at me like now he's a little older and he's telling me you ain't right man you you you ain't right i'm yo let's go to the gym now i don't want to the gym with you let me give you some advice i don't need your fucking advice this is my son talking to me now now he's resentful because of the shit i put him through. I don't see it like that. I really recognize it now. Yeah. I remember all this shit. And then he's resentful. He's like, you know, he's fucking, I'm telling him he comes in on a date or whatever. How did it go? He blow me off, you know? It's just our relationship. But he's living with you. He's living with me because he got his own room, though. I'm working, I'm working,

I got an apartment. I'm working in the car business. I'm working. Was he drink, like, is he drank, is he? He's smoking a little weed, not crazy. Is he living with you to sort of help you? No. Or is it because he needs to live with you? He's trying to get up on his own. He's living with me because he can live on his own,

but he's away playing basketball six, seven months out of the year. Yeah, you're proud of him. Yeah, that's my man. I'm trying to get a relationship, but he knows, he knows it's only going to, I'm going to work tomorrow. Yeah. I'm working five, six days a week, 10 hours a day. Every day, I'm working.

So, a little thing, we would never go, like my daughter would come in. We would go out to eat, and we would laugh, you know, together. Me and my son were like, you know, he's blowing me off for years, for three years. And you know he knows at this point. Yeah, because he told me he knows. He knows I'm getting high. And he found some stuff in my apartment. And for you at this point, is it, are you shooting dope?

No, I'm just sniffing dope, smoking crack. That's it. I'm smoking crack and I'm doing Xanax at night. To go to sleep so you can get up and work and get up and go to work. Sell cars. You sell cars. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat every day.

That's my regular. I go down, go to the block, I spend $50, $30 on dope, $20 on crack, get high, go to work, sneak out at lunchtime, go spend another $50. and then going home, I was through the same thing. $40, $50. Exhausting. Yeah, a couple of night. I did that shit every day for years. Exhausting.

In my day off, I would, you know, I had a, I had a, this is how crazy this shit is. So I had a regimen that I used to drink this shake. I used to put, I used to buy turmeric, ginger. I used to take the aloe plant. Peel of aloe plant, protein powder, blueberries, banana, peanut butter. And I drunk that shit every day. That shit used to give me power. That in the dope, I was in fucking invincible.

I used to be here with, I drunk that every day. Bro, you're telling me about an aloe, blueberry, ginger, tamarice shake. And I hit a dope. That was your regimen. No, not a hit, a few bags. Well, you know what I mean. So that was my thing. I was sick like that.

And it preserved me I don't know how to explain I was I was a I was my own addict I had a system Yeah But at the end there You were alone right

Like you weren't running around With people Like you were just using alone Yeah I will What happened You have a partner to get high Oh no No no I mean

You weren't called a party No Parties No I'm gonna get exposed at a party I would creep out my own And get high on my own My car was my office

A lot of times I wouldn't go home and get high in the house and get paranoid like that my drugs would be gone by the time I got home in the car it'd be gone and then I would go to sleep I'd smoke a couple of cigarettes stink up the house and go to sleep I would clean up I would eat some food

I had a I had like a regiment that a system I had a system that was so I had it that's why I kept me so long so long and any problem I had I just paid for it I put a band-aid over it you know yeah so I heard something and like I mean look man reality television um the Bachelorette social media whatever you want to say about it but I heard I heard something the other day that Like the best love story coming out of this season.

And I hear Grant's just an amazing guy. I haven't got the opportunity to meet him. I will. But I hear the best love story coming out of this season is you and your son. What can you explain to me what the last year and three months has been like for you getting sober? What you would say to Grant if he was here, what you have been able to say to him? Because I think this is where we just spent a lot of time talking about your story. which is fine like we do that but I want to hear like the hope I want to hear so Zach I'm going to tell you that this part of my life right now in recovery and excuse me if I start crying because this part right now with my son forget that he's the bachelor he's a man now and he's forgiven me

and I remember that acceptance part of you know how I always wanted to fit in I had always had the acceptance from my daughter I wanted it from my son I have the acceptance it's been such an amazing when when I had the opportunity to go to detox and a young girl told me said you can't go back to work you got to go to a rehab I had no idea I thought 10 days I'm good I got a separation now. And I didn't even call it that. I learned that in recovery. It's the separation. I didn't call that. Have you forgiven yourself? I did that immediately.

I should look in the mirror and say, you tried. I forgave myself first, and I started loving myself. That has got me through big, because I can play the tape back. I did so many wrong things, but they're done. done already. I can't change it. All I could do is live right now. So that was big for me.

I had some good counselors at Alina Lodge and they told me you've got to forgive yourself first. You know what I mean? And I'm not I have to make men's but I'm not there yet. So you go to Alina Lodge, you get cleaned out. Does Grant

know you're in rehab? He knows I'm in rehab. He's super proud. But wait, wait, wait. Why did you How did you get that separation? Why, after all these years, did you finally stop or surrender? So let me tell you, remember I told you my mother died? I told you I went to the motel. I ran out of money in the motel.

And I'm looking, how am I going to get some money? I had maybe $100 left. I already took all the stuff out of my apartment, put it in stores, because they were evicted me. I had my car and my clothes. and I was up already for six days and I said am I going to drive back to Newark and get more drugs so I'm tired I'm looking out the window in the motel

I see this guy pull up in the car you know I know a drug dealer he closes the door next door to where I was I knock on the door he has fentanyl and crack I almost died I felt my head I was having an an aneurys, like I was having aneurysm. And I remember I was on in Newark one time, and it was this counselor out there, help with drugs. His name was Paul. I took the guy's number. I didn't never used it. I called him that night in the motel. I said, I'm going to die. He said, could you hate, can you hold on to 8 o'clock? He said, send me a picture of your driver's license and

your health insurance. He called me up at 7.59. He said, said, and I was still up. I was depressed and all. I never was suicidal like that. I was just exhausted. And he said, I don't take your insurance because he said, there's a, there's a detox right down the road. I was on Route 1. That's Princeton detox. He said, there's a girl going to, soon as I hang up, a girl's going to call you. And she's going to, she already put your insurance for work there. Soon as I hung up, she called me. Mr. Ellis, this is Susan from Bob, Bob, I'm getting you into Princeton Detox. I was so exhausted. I was like, I'll go. I'll go. But you know, I had to, I'm going to get sick. I was like,

drove back to Newark. I went and tried to go to a methadone clinic. And they said, you can't just can't come in here and get methadone like that. So I bought some, that money I had, I had probably $50 left. I said, you want to send me your methadone? Girl had two bottles. I bought it, drank it, and drove straight to the detox. I didn't get no withdrawals. The only thing I had was the shakes because of the coke, and I was sweating.

I didn't have no withdrawals. They said, they knew I was on methadone because they take my blood. Yeah. They usually give you sub-eutects or something like that. I didn't take any of that. But when I left there, went to Alina Lodge. You got sick. I got sick, yeah.

Yeah, you got sick. Yeah, I got sick. I got six for a couple days. That's the worst. Yeah, but you know what? It pales into comparison. I take that all day long. What not using, I found another.

I didn't know this was possible. So you go to Alina Lodge, and Taylor has always been supportive. Grant, are you talking to him while you're in rehab? No, he's on the Bachelorette at this time. He got no phone. So you get out of detox. He comes back and this first season that he's on airs and you're sober like two or three months Trying to figure your shit out and there's an episode where he basically says that my dad's been doing drug for 35 years

He puts me on blast complete blasts and he put me on blast to the girl To not only the girl he put me on blast to all my friends They call looking for me I'm in rehab and detox for what I'm gone for a month and a half where's Rob, his phone, it's going to voicemail. They call him my daughter, she's saying he on vacation. He called my son, when they got him out of the show, when he finds fulfillment, he's in rehab. He didn't tell you, he's in rehab. He was like the truth in all this.

Yeah, yeah, he's no filter, none of that. And what did you feel when you heard that, knowing that you're, you know, this thing that you've been dealing with for four years? I surrendered. By that time, I surrendered. I was like, whatever happens. I've been through so much. What is somebody saying that I'm a drug addict going to do? I am a drug addict. Yeah, I am too.

Yeah, that's, uh, listen, I'm proud to be able to tell somebody. This is what I was and this is my journey now. This shit is possible. This is amazing what you can do. You are a testament. Look at the people you know. We found a new way of life. dealing with people who were previously addicts.

I'm going to tell you something about addicts that I know, that I've realized. When you have an addict that has purpose, he's the fucking baddest motherfucker around. I agree. If he has purpose and he focuses, because if they came through some of the shit

that we came through, the rest of this, now listen, recovery's not easy. Well, it's not about not using, man. Right. Like everyone's so like, and that's my one problem with rehab and therapy and even the work we do here at release. Like I was running a group today with the guys and like everyone's hyper-focused on this like I just can't pick up today.

I just can't pick up today. But like there's so much more than that. So to your point, I found running. I found community. I found music. I found working out. I found golf. Like I found all these things.

And I proved to myself that in recovery I can do all these things. And that's the part that I think we failed to teach. Well, but it's even, it's like you, it's, you wake up. You know what I mean? All this stuff that was in you, like you were, when your son went on there to, you know, millions of people, your closest friends, and he said that, you're, you didn't run. No. You know, you said, that's me.

Like that, that is humility, you know, I don't know where that comes from, you know, but we all need it to surrender. We need it to get sober. How do we, how do we get, how do we, how do we. distribute that to the masses. Your humility, bro, you let me know when you find out how to distribute humility to the masses because I'll fucking, I'll pay for it. I'll tell you one way, fucking pain.

You know, there's a line in the literature that, you know, I was beaten into a state of reasonableness. You know, you were in so much pain and just everything was stripped away. Someone said this to me once. I think I've said it here before. You know, the definition of spirituality, it's a process of subtraction. Right? I never heard that one. That's a good one.

Taking things away. Way, yeah. You were living, we were like the stories, man. And we are great storytellers, right? And your whole life was just one story to cover the next story to cover the next story. And finally you ended up in some dark motel on the side of the road, and you're like, I'm done. And listen, I don't know what happened. The money ran out at the right time.

I had the same phone that I had Paul's number in. My insurance was working. everything happened like it was like and I had and I got some once once I started like you said loving myself and I knew I could do something different

I don't even have to go back and sell a card I can love myself and trust for the rest because I had no plan I had no plan and you know the self-doubt picture you in my shoes a dude that had money

sold cars to influential people now you're 61 years old you fucking broke you live in sober living with guys who were 25 they calling you you fucking asshole you know what I mean you know how my self-esteem was

I fucking felt like this in there when I walked in and then I started getting bigger every day every day I started looking at myself Like you say you go running, I went to the gym. I looked like a raccoon, and my circle started disappearing. You know what I mean? I felt stronger.

I could do 10 push-ups, then 15, 20, 25. I started getting stronger. You know, I didn't need dope anymore, for my back was stronger. I used to use it for my back. I was like, this shit is amazing. And then my son had called me. Thank you. So when I saw that, I was like, yeah, I was fucked up.

He's telling his story. You know what I mean? I'm glad that he's still sane. He could have a big resentment like I fucking hate him. He don't. He loves me. Yeah, I mean, the truth that I'm getting from you and him right now in this moment is crazy. That's what we need.

I mean, for him to own it and for you to not get mad and for him to forgive and for you to forgive yourself, I mean, all that stuff is really powerful. Yep. So then he's the lead, he calls you and says, yo, dad, like, I'm, I'm, I'm going to go. And you're like, all right, go, right? Dude, he calls me. He's on The Bachelor.

And I was like, he telling me, oh, I started feeling for that girl. I'm laughing with him. And then a couple of months later, maybe two months after the show, they said, they asked me to be the bachelor. I was like, get the, get the hell out of the year. I said, I'm your father. I know who you are. You're The Bachelor, really?

I never watched the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I was like, dare, he's a good-looking little dude. That's like, can you handle that with all them women? I said, don't forget, they're somebody's daughter. They got, there's somebody's daughter. I said, you got to respect those women. He was like, I don't know what I'm going to try.

And listen, the rest, you know something. They picked the right guy for that. Grant did a hell of a job. You know something, this journey with me, I didn't know a lot of things. You know what he tells me, fellas, he said the show is therapy for me. It helps me with my relationship with my family. Because he gets to talk about that. He held all of that, especially with me.

And like you said, even my son said that, Zach, and I couldn't understand. stand where he met he said this is a this not only a love story with me and these girls he said this is the love story with me and you that well i think you know man that that that that's beautiful yeah i get choked up a little bit hearing that because that's just recovery you know like yeah and i i i know i know what that is and i know i know it's possible and i just think like look man that show i'm i'm i'm pretty detached from from that show i i'm i'm pretty detached from that I don't watch the show, right? Like, I had my time, and it was nice,

and I have friends in that world, and I respect it, and I respect Grant for doing it, for sure. I mean, it's not easy. I know that. And they're getting, you know, they're like all over the media right now because there's producers changing and all this crazy stuff.

But, like, like, all that stuff aside, man, there are some stuff that comes out of that that is, like, beautiful. And the fact that you and your son got to share your story of recovery like I did you know in a very public way and you leaned into that

and you said Grant you tell your truth I'm going to speak my truth and we're going to do this together you know that's powerful and there's not many other shows that would be able to kind of tell that story in the way in the way that they are

so I'm a guy I look at the positive you know whatever's going on over there behind the scenes. I think that for you and for him, you know, that alone is worth all of it. Listen, I can, my gratitude runs deep. I got the phone call from you

and he said, I'm going to be, get to speak on your podcast. I can't, listen, I can talk for a long time, but I'm just tell you something that I have a belief in what's supposed to be is supposed to be.

and you guys heard my journey I was crazy but I'm still here and I have a purpose my purpose is to help people and I don't want to you know I'm going to give you your props but because the bachelor and the bachelor it made me connect with you you know what I mean I don't know who Zach Clark is before this I know who Mark is a guy for my sober living, he's a gem of a guy. And you know what, guys come into this

for the wrong reasons, you know what I mean? And I understand that. It's life. But to have a purpose and to actually make a difference is something special. And when you call me and said, you know, like the stigma about recovery, and I see you working on that, the stigma is big. that thing being called the black sheep of the family because you're an alcoholic or a drug addict. And when it's a disease, it's just a problem. So I'm so thankful of where this is repaired. It's repaired me. I'm the one who was broken and it got my son a chance to heal too.

And my daughter, my daughter's proud of me too. and me and my ex-wife are like buddies now she calling me every other day I'm like what's up Renee you good but she's my buddy and I take the calls instead of hitting the pass button you know what I mean like I'm high right now yeah I mean look you know what it's like now

you know what it's like to get that you know what it's like to call what was the guy's name Paul and have him answer the phone and then call Susan and have her answer the phone and then go into Alina Lodge and then call Mark and have him answer the phone. And then call Zach and have him answer the phone. And now after learning the ways that people answer the phone for you,

you're going to start answering the phone for others. And that's how this stuff really works. I mean, at the end of day, that is what recovery is. So when you call me, I'm going to pick up that phone regardless of whether your son is the lead. And like, I kept it between us. Like, I could have hit grand or whatever. Yeah, you definitely could have. Like, we're going to handle this like adults.

we're going to get you right and we're going to help you out because that's i don't give a shit where you're coming from if you're reaching out and you're asking for help it's my duty it's my purpose to respond in a way that is helpful okay and we've been blessed with your presence you're helping other people in our community and uh you're staying sober i'm thankful you got to take care of your take care of yourself yeah yeah yeah i could just listen i appreciate this opportunity and I appreciate your counsel and your guidance because you paved the way for people before me and I respect that you say,

when you text me and say, how are you doing? And you wasn't talking about my health. You was talking about your program, your recovery. This is 100%. It's a new way to live. And you know something? I hope I can continue to help

give people awareness, awareness of how it's not a knock. No, this is a gift. Yeah, it's a gift. You get to step up. I use the analogy with the guys. It's like, you know how a baby starts walking, and then they only go forward. You don't see a baby taking steps backwards. So this is all possible.

you know with a mentor somebody to tell you the way they did it like a sponsor you know all of these things they have in places for a reason yeah but there's certain stuff that is good stuff man i appreciate you i love you bro keep going thank you for coming this was a great conversation we'll have to do it again you got to stay sober i mean that's just the name of the game you know like you stay sober i stay sober i stay sober jay stay sober same time same place next year you know there you go but I'm going to have Grant come. I'm going to call you. Okay.

Go ahead. We've got to have great. Yeah, we'll have dinner. We'll break bread. So you can ask him how you feel now about the recovery. He's a big advocate for this. Good. Yeah, we got to get him, man.

Yep. All right, bro. That's it. Thank you. It's a wrap. It's a wrap. It's a love.