The Zac Clark Show - The Youth Of America In Crisis: Solutions and Hope | Dr. Shairi Turner, Crisis Text Line Chief Health Officer

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Even before the pandemic, rates of stress, anxiety, depression, and suicide among our youth were steadily climbing. Dr. Shairi Turner, Chief Health Officer of Crisis Text Line, is on a mission to inform, educate, and transform. Crisis Text Line, the only 24/7 nationwide crisis-intervention text-message hotline in America, boasts over 65,000 trained volunteers ready to provide support and resources to those struggling with mental health. In my conversation with Dr. Turner, we delve into the national mental health epidemic. Despite its devastating scope, Dr. Turner's solution-oriented approach is both surprising and inspiring. We covered a wide range of topics, including:  What is Crisis Text Line and how is it making an impact. The disproportionate impact of mental health challenges on minority communities. Racial disparities in accessing mental health services and treatment.  The rise in bullying and self-harm among our youth. Childhood trauma. The power of empathy to combat stigma.  6 KEY elements every community needs to foster a healthy and supportive environment for our youth.   Solutions and hope for a brighter future.  This is the critical issue of our time. Please give this hopeful discussion a listen.  Resources:  United in Empathy Report https://www.crisistextline.org/united-in-empathy-2023-report Community Resilience Report https://www.crisistextline.org/what-do-young-people-in-crisis-need-from-their-communities If you are in need of mental health support, simply text HELLO or HOLA to 741741 and you will be connected to a live, trained volunteer Crisis Counselor. Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right, so welcome back to the Zach Clark show. You know, we really strive to get guests on this podcast that are much smarter than me. And we have 100% achieved that today with Dr. Shaiuri Turner. I'm not even to try and spout all this in her introduction. So I'm going to cheat here because I have some notes. But she is currently the chief health officer at Crisis Text Hotline or Crisis Text Line. I'm sorry. She got her bachelor's degree in biology from Stanford University, a master's in public health from Harvard. She was the first chief medical director for the Florida Department

of Juvenile Justice. She's an internist and pediatrician specializing in trauma-informed practices. She's just a well-rounded smart person, but from my conversations with her a better person. So Dr. Turner, welcome. Thank you, Zach. It's great to be here. Yeah, we're excited. The one question so we're going to talk about a lot today obviously mental health and and suicide and some really heavy topics but we'll start just with something that I'm always curious about is how did this work choose you did you choose this work why what's your why yes I love that question because I always feel like we are we ultimately find our way to the to what we're supposed to be doing right so I started out um doing my residency and my training as

a physician in internal medicine and pediatrics but then got my master's of public health doing the Commonwealth Fund Harvard University Fellowship and Minority Health Policy and that fellowship gave me the opportunity to see public health and the spaces and the places and the places where physicians could impact public health and I did some work with the Department of Youth Services in Massachusetts and worked with looking at some of their research on younger people who were incarcerated. And the interesting thing there was that they were black and brown youth,

as we usually see, incarcerated. And when I looked at the data with them, you would see differences in drug and alcohol use between the groups. So the black youth chose marijuana, and at that time, the white and Latinx youth were choosing alcohol and ecstasy. see. When was this? This was back in early 2000s. Okay. So 20 years ago. Yes. Yeah. Great. And, you know, the thing that stuck with me there was the residential director said, you know, if you could treat

hopelessness, you would do a lot for these kids. And what that was the early, that was an early indicator, an early proxy for trauma because all these young people who have been incarcerated then and now have experienced extreme childhood trauma. So from there, I actually went on to become the first chief medical director for the Department of Juvenile Justice and worked in Florida for that agency for four years and just saw not just the behavior, but the horrific things that these young people had experienced prior to their interaction with law enforcement and then just the disproportionate nature. number of youth of color who are in these systems and that was early on when

we were just starting to talk about early childhood to be adverse childhood experiences from there I went to the Florida Department of Health and then ultimately became the chief medical direct officer then the chief health officer several years later at crisis text line but I feel like I was brought here because of both my passion around trauma and the understanding of the connection between childhood experiences and people who are in crisis and mental health issues and substance use issues. What we do at crisis text line is large scale, so it's public help. So I feel like I wound up exactly where I was supposed to be

despite where I might have started out. Where did you grow up? I grew up in the Bronx. Oh, you did? Okay. So you're coming home a little bit here. Coming home to the York. Yeah, love it. Okay. So you're comfortable. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. My parents are in the arts, so I really did sort of take a transition. My dad's an actor and my mom's a writer and a publisher, an academician. And, you know, I took a transition into the medical field that was different than the path that they were on. I love that.

That gives me permission to find my career path that I've found because I'm not doing anything that my parents or anyone in my family. You know, I am on a totally different path. And I'm proud of that, you know, like, you know, paving, paving my own way. you mentioned this word trauma I'm really proud of our community because I feel like trauma isn't this dirty word that it used to be I mean I think we're talking about it more and I just I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about in those early days when you were kind of studying the various communities and how their environment or upbringing or talk just a little bit more in detail about some of the traumas you were seeing and then how that played into

I guess it was one getting in trouble in law but more importantly substance abuse and mental health and all the things that we care about yes so I think just backing up and talking about like broadly what is trauma and what are adverse childhood experiences so trauma the the adverse childhood experiences study came out in the 90s but people really didn't start leaning into an understanding of what impact childhood trauma has on all of us with the prevalence that exists, but it speaks to the developmental period in the child's brain. So our brains start developing in utero, so before we are born, and that brain development

goes through till our early 20s, and it's so heavily influenced by our experiences. So positive or negative experiences shape this very malleable brain. that children have as they grow and it lasts you know the the growth the pruning grows goes on for many many years into early adulthood so good things do good things for a child's brain and very simply bad things do bad things to a child's brain and then the behavior reflects that so childhood trauma includes early childhood physical abuse sexual abuse emotional abuse family dysfunction, and that can include spousal or domestic violence in the home that

children witness. It can include a parent with a mental illness, a parent who's incarcerated, parental death. It's a loss of a parent in some way. And now we're just looking much more broadly about the experiences that children have in those foundational years. So it's ultimately community violence so that a child can live in a stable home but a community that's very violent can impact brain development i think the pandemic and the the isolation that younger children experience we're going to see something as a result of that and then just children who are experiencing the turmoil of immigration so each of these things create you know it's the environment in which the child lives and it's in the environment in which

the child's brain develops, and the behavior is a response to that. Yeah. Wow. I'm thinking, so last week I actually, I did a couple days of outreach in Kensington down in Philadelphia. I grew up in South Jersey, and Kensington's facing a whole host of issues right now, just with substance abuse and mental health and kind of the open-air drug market. And so we did, we've actually partnered with the Eagles, Go Bird. so I'm a Philly fan on a on a community day in the school so we brought this really cool

kind of fun joyful day to a middle school the Conwell school in Kensington which is in this neighborhood and these kids are so resilient I mean they see so much just in terms of walking to school needles on the ground and all the things that you know we we talk about and it hit me because we were we were kind of like finishing up the second session with the kids and there was this kid julian that i was you know you pick your favorite one you know you pick your favorites and so we were like doing our thing and and somehow in the conversation at one point i'll never forget and we were we got onto his parents and he kind of just looked at me matter of fact and he just said oh my dad's in jail and it was so normal to him to say that but for me even as someone

who does this work i didn't know how to respond and so i would i would put it on you like when when confronted, like, what is my response to that? Or like, how would you handle that situation? Or is there nothing to do? You just make sure that he's got the right supports. I'm just curious. Right. So an empathetic response is always appropriate, right?

Because even, sadly, it's matter of fact to him because he's, or it appears like it's matter of fact to him, right? Because deep inside, everyone would have feelings about their parent being incarcerated. But in the conversation to you, there's a matter-factness that he presented that I, you know, I hear you recognized. But empathy around that is always appropriate because we know that having a father incarcerated is actually doing less to rehabilitate his father and more impacting the family that he left behind, right? And that's what that young person that you spoke to, how he's managed that is by, presenting it as something factual. But you can always respond to a young person

with empathy around something like that because the loss of a parent, he's still alive, but he's away from his family. The impact that that has on him developmentally from a financial perspective for his family could have been life changing. And just the role modeling and the support that even a father who's struggling,

can provide to a son in person versus being incarcerated. So it's always, you know, when we have, when we train our volunteers, it's always around empathetic and active listening, right? So you can reflect back to him how difficult that might be. Yeah. It's like something that stuck with me early on in my career. There was a clinician that I was listening to, you know, give a talk. And something they said was basically, like, if you knew that person's story, you wouldn't be mad, right?

Like, if you knew that person's story, you wouldn't be upset. And that's why it's helpful to not make assumptions about anyone, you know, us sitting here together today. Right. And so empathy seems very almost too easy, right? Like, it seems like such an easy answer, but it's true. And I don't know. I feel like we can all learn empathy. Empathy is stepping outside of yourself, right, and really stepping into someone else's shoes.

And that may sound simple. And for some people, that comes more easily than for others, because we have our own issues, right? And if you're so embroiled in your own issues, stepping into his situation and empathizing with him may not be easy. Or we never know, like, what your experience is with having family members. incarcerated, right? Having him say that could actually have been triggering to someone else who may have responded more negatively or just kind of neutrally to the fact that he mentioned that. So we all have our own family histories. We all have some degree, right, because we're people raised by people. We all have our own set of traumas. And you never know when you're going to

step into someone else's situation. But the ability to hear them and let them know that you see them goes a long way. I smile because I'm identifying, you know, like I think about the things that to me were traumatic in my childhood and they might not, my father wasn't in jail, you know, but like to me they were traumas. They were things that took place in my life and having some empathetic people around me to validate some of those feelings might have been helpful. I don't know if it would have help me to avoid the journey I went on and I'm grateful for that journey. But this is all really powerful. Okay. So crisis text line. Yes. I'm blown away. I want it all because the work you guys are doing is unbelievable. And I love public health. I love what you guys are doing. Could you

just give the listeners? Yeah, the download, the basics. And then I want to get into these reports and the numbers and the things that you're seeing. I think there's like, the world needs to hear this stuff. Yes. Thank you. And thank you for creating this space, both in what you're doing and touching others, and then allowing us to elevate and showcase what Crisis Text Line does. For those who don't know, Crisis Text Line is a national nonprofit. We're 10 years old. And we provide free 24-7 high-quality mental health support and crisis intervention. solely on a text platform so we were really the first large scale text-based mental health support and emotional support service we are available in English and in Spanish for anyone who texts

741 741 they can text hello they can text 741 exactly cool they can text hello they can text ayuda they can text help to 741 741 741 and they can also reach us through WhatsApp, so 443 support, or 442 Ayudame, and by web chat. So we are accessible and we are really accessible and designed created for younger people. So 70% of our textors are under the age of 24 because they're digital natives, right?

Texting is comfortable for young people. They don't need to hear a voice and many will say, I don't want to hear a voice. I want to be able to share my feelings and emotions, by texts because I'm comfortable right so someone texts in and they're received they'll be received by a live volunteer crisis counselor who's supervised by our mental health professional staff so we've trained over 65,000 volunteers already who are now you know empathy warriors we like to say on the platform and we've shown that they use the

training it's a 30-hour online training they use the training in their communities and in their homes with their other relationships to be able to actively listen to be able to build rapport to be able to you know collaboratively problem-solve because those are the elements of what they learn to support textures on the platform so I don't know if you have the 23 numbers maybe the 22 numbers, but do you have any sense of how many people text it in over the course of the year? So our United and Empathy report was just released. It's available on our website, which is crisis textline.org. And it show, it's our annual report that really speaks to the impact and

tells, you know, our nation what textures are experiencing. So 2023, we had 1.3 million conversations. 3.3 million conversations and 70% so probably almost a million of them yeah we're under 24 years old we're 24 under and we know yes it speaks to the youth mental health epidemic that if people don't know we are in the midst of it we are right young people are in crisis they are reaching out for help it is disproportionately affecting our LGBTQ plus youth 52% of our LGBT of our texters are LGBTQ plus it's disproportionately impacting our youth of color so we have about 8% of our textors identify as Asian American 20% as Latin X, 15% as African American and 4% as Native American so we know that we're reaching communities of color where they may not otherwise have access to a mental health support service I should say that the way that we collect our data, because it's all anonymous, we do not ask people for their personal information.

At the end of the conversation, when they feel calmer and de-escalated, they have the opportunity to complete an, they have the opportunity to complete an anonymous survey. And about 21% of the texters do, which is statistically significant. Yeah. And that gives us all this information about demographics, about the topics of conversation, about age, right? So we know that we're reaching people. And almost 65% of our texts are texting in about something that they have not told anyone else about. So they have not been able to find a resource or support beyond crisis text line. So it's almost a gateway to asking for help. I mean, when otherwise folks may be. wouldn't feel comfortable so young people people of color okay interesting and so what I have so many questions I guess I'm going to start here like what is what do you what are you guys hearing what are you dealing with is it is it hey I'm thinking about so it's everything yeah in general so we always say a crisis to you is a crisis to us I love that it's not it's it's what you define as a crisis as a crisis as something that

that's debilitating is something that's stressing you. We don't gate keep. So the volunteer is able to support a textor who's 13 texting in about an exam tomorrow in the same equal way that they're able to support a texture who is dealing with a relationship all the way to someone who's on the brink of or feeling like they're going to harm themselves or die by suicide.

So the text. Textors text in, you know, from all ages, so 13 to 65 and up. So we're able to support a tester. Are you seeing folks that are 60, 60, yes. 70% of our texters are under the age of 24, but 30% are over that age. And that can go, you know, to anyone who feels comfortable texting in for support. We are available. And our United Empathy Report, 2023, showed.

us that stress and anxiety were the top issues that people are texting in about. That was different from last year. So more stress, more anxiety. After that, what are they talking about? Relationships, depression and sadness, suicide, and isolation and loneliness. And for the third year in a row, we're seeing, you know,

a surge in bullying and self-harm, right? Because kids are now back to school and in person. post-pandemic so that interpersonal relationship the bullying is is on the rise sadly so someone writes in and says hey I'm a 19 year you know and I'm being bullied in my freshman year of college what is it what is the response like I'm just trying to like really role play what would the what would that look like one of the textures or one of the volunteers and does that escalate at a certain moment to like real professional help or what's the solution I guess is my question so we're very much about in the moment support yeah so if someone is

19 and texts in and they're struggling we first helped identify what the crisis is right what is what is it that you're texting in about because many times it feels like it's everything right but to be able to drill down with the volunteer crisis counselor who says you know who actively listens and then reflects back. So to say, you know, it sounds like this situation is really stressful for you, right? So so many times people just don't feel heard or don't feel like they can reach out to someone

and be heard. So together, there's active listening, there's a reflection back to the texter so the texter knows that they are being heard and is all by text. And then there's, you know, the goal setting or collaborative problem solving, there's the opportunity to help the texture establish and think about coping strategies.

So what have you done in the past that has helped you when you've been in moments of crisis, right? So we know that some of the coping strategies, again from our United Empathy Report, we know that some of the coping strategies that textures identify are just talking to other people. So reaching out to school counselors, teachers, family members, texting in, but getting it off your chest sometimes and being able to articulate it. Music actually happens to be a big coping strategy for younger people. So taking you through that conversation, it's de-escalating, it's finding those coping strategies, it's checking in and seeing how the texture feels towards the end of the conversation. every conversation though is risk assessed for suicide so even if I'm texting in about my homework

the volunteer is trained to quote unquote always ask which means in a clear kind way reflect what they're hearing kind of elevate what the situation is and how impactful it might be for the texture and then check in a clear and kind way does this make you think about how harming yourself because people may be having those thoughts but not know how to bring it forward right when I'm talking about my homework but we want to make sure we're not missing someone who is at risk for trying to die by suicide yeah so I'm hoping this question is going to come out right one of the I feel like at times working in the behavioral health care field especially in public health can feel thankful

especially when we're talking about death by suicide because naturally that is going to be louder than the person who maybe recovers or the person that reaches out for help and escapes that event taking place. So I guess my question is like where where's the hope, what keeps us going? Like why, you know, are we seeing?

seeing improvements, what can we hang our hats on, you know, like in this work? Yes, great question. So we're really excited having partnered with Common Good Labs to look at from a two-year timeframe, or three-year timeframe, 2019 to 2022, about 87,000 conversations with young people, right? So again, these are anonymous conversations. and from them we gleaned coping strategies. So we put out a report with Common Good Labs that was entitled,

What do young people in crisis need from their communities? So we know, right, it's well known in this space that there's a workforce shortage. There's a shortage of mental health professionals. There's a parity issue, meaning mental health professionals cannot charge and be in reimbursed at the level that they should be to encourage them to enter the field to provide the support we know people need like a pay right pay is not equitable and it's not you know what mental health professionals have to go through to get reimbursed by insurance

companies is far more laborious significant than someone who's just treating the the neck down so someone who's in physical health or physician in physical health. So we know from that report that young people want access to social connection. So opportunities to connect with other people, which makes sense, right? Post-pandemic isolation, now young people are saying, I want to be out. I want to be able to engage because of the relationship, the support I get from being with my peers or my family. like I want those opportunities in the community. They also were, they also talked about arts, so performing arts, visual arts, theater.

The ability to create is something that helps people when they're in crisis. Again, mental health support was on that list and exercise. So team sports, YMCA, the opportunity to get out, get endorphins going, run around, enjoy. that interconnected time in a team sport or otherwise and then books and audio books so access to a library or access to books online and lastly open spaces so third spaces parks recreational centers places to be outside and all of this makes sense right this is not rocket science but it's it's now a report that drives some tangibles that you know cities count counties, states can find action around.

They can't necessarily, in the short term, create a workforce, you know, enhance the workforce. Although, you know, folks are working on that too. But this is where you can direct your resources for your community and you know you're going to support young people. Yeah, I mean, you say it's not rocket science. It's almost too simple, right? I mean, for me, when I have a friend or a colleague or someone outreach me

and they might disclose that they're that they're struggling these are a lot of the things that I look to right it's like okay do you have a therapist are you working out how are you sleeping are you drinking enough water you know are you get you know are you connecting with friends they seem very basic but I believe in the year 2024 it has become so much harder to put the phone down and make real connection and leave your home yes and really go seek those things that seem really simple but for some reason just evolution I guess have become trivialized and almost just hard to do right and we've evolved into this you know everything is tied to our phone and now our social networks can be tied to our phone so we we could stay inside and work and play and interact without leaving our

house and and there's a convenience to that right and a lot of that was accelerated by the pandemic because we didn't have a choice. But now post-pandemic, we have to figure out how to get back outside, how to reach out, because we're just seeing, you know, over the past decade, a decline in many instances in resources around parks, around teams, around libraries, right? But we're seeing an increase. So depression in young adolescents between 2022 and 2010. in 2022, five million adolescents were, you know, speaking about depression as compared to two million in 2012, 2010. So it's just, I mean, you're saying that's a good, that's a good thing. So, no, it's an increase. So we're looking at two million in 2010 up to five million.

But they're talking about, no. No, they're they're diagnosed with, they have symptoms of depression in 2022. So we're seeing the rise in depression. We're seeing the rise in suicide amongst young people in that same time frame from over 1,500, from under 1,000 to over 1,500 young people dying by suicide in that time per year. No, I mean, look, I shared with you prior to coming in here. I was down at Ole Miss on a speaking engagement, and I do this everyone. Once in a while, go out to college campuses and speak about mental health. And I specifically kind of gear my talks towards men's mental health because I feel like that's where I have the most knowledge and I have something to offer in that department.

And it was, it blew me away because close to a thousand young men showed up to this talk at Ole Miss. And I sat back and I just said five years ago, maybe three years ago, okay, but like 10 years, Like, this was not happening. It's not a thing. My, one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast in general was because, you know, we talk a lot. But where is the action kind of behind our words? And obviously, the work that you guys are doing is, is proving that.

Like, you are taking action steps towards combating, I think you call it, this young adult or youth mental. health epidemic, I mean, then that's real. Yes. And so why do you think, like, this is what blows my mind, why do you think in some ways we ignore it? Like, like, as a country, as a, I don't know, like, I hear that and I say, oh, that's a real problem. Yes.

But I feel like other people who just live these normal lives hear that and they're like, well, it's not a real thing. Well, the good news is we are starting to see more. discussion about mental health, right? And I think the pandemic, again, was an accelerant to those discussions because people were home and they were struggling and we were in the midst of, you know, a racial reckoning across the country. And people were willing, almost felt compelled to speak on what they were experiencing

in those spaces of isolation. So what I loved was that our athletes and celebrities whose lives were idealized right were willing to come forward and speak to their own mental health concerns issues struggles you know we saw athletes stepping back in the peak of their career and saying I need to regroup right so that was unheard of so what that does to the stigma because that's what you're talking about right the stigma is this feeling that we can't discuss we shouldn't discuss there's something wrong

with people who are mentally ill or people who are struggling with their mental health when there isn't because each and every one of us has probably had a moment in time or many moments in time where mental health has been a struggle right so the fact that we are talking about it we're normalizing the conversation we're giving words right to what you know way back when my our parents generation it was you know someone was crazy right and that was it. No, we're talking about the different experiences that people are having. We're talking about their struggles. We're talking about adverse childhood experiences, which we now have

data, leads directly into mental health issues. I mean, I wanted to talk about this before. Depression is actually a normal response to a traumatized childhood, right? It's the mind saying, I can't, I just can't, right? I'm shutting down. I'm dialing back. substance use is, you know, self-medication for those who've experienced trauma, right? Like the numbing effects of alcohol or hallucinogens, it takes you out of your head. You know, when we look at it like that, we have a much clearer understanding of that connection between the trauma we experience as a child and our mental health issues and substance use issues as adults.

So we're giving voice to the stigma. We're normalizing the conversation. We're, you know, when you go out and you speak to all those men, you give them permission to have those conversations after, right? After you gather with them and tell your story. So you're sharing your vulnerability. You're showing them that they're not alone, right? Because all of the, you know, the number of men who came out to listen to you

and the conversations that were probably spurred afterwards that's powerful yeah right so so there's hope because the conversations are continuing the the at the federal level at the state level at the city level the conversations are happening and people are recognizing the significance what we were at the u.s. conference of mayors and their number one topic led by the mayor of reno is mental health and youth mental health. So the conversations are everywhere. I mean, last year in particular, we heard state of the union.

President Biden spoke about, in his unity address, about mental health. Tremendous amount of funds are going towards mental health. So we are making progress in that direction. I love it. I'm going to ask permission to be vulnerable for a minute. Is that cool? Yes, please. Yeah, ask a question.

And if I fumble over language or if I say something wrong, I want to just be like really mindful of that because I am truly someone that prides myself on listening and learning and hearing. And I just, so I've heard you talk about race. I heard you talk about the LGBTQ, I plus community. Some of these under, you know, people of color, these underserved communities who might not have access to care for whatever reason, their numbers just keep going through the roof. And I had this experience where I knew.

I looked at this, and so we have a nonprofit, the Release Foundation, and we raise money to help people get treatment. It's that simple. Like, you call us, chances are, we're going to write a check, and we're going to get you the health that you need. And so when we started a couple years, two, three years ago, we did a really nice job raising a couple million dollars, and we started to establish funds with particular treatment centers.

So we established a fund for the LGBTQIA plus community with this treatment center out in Pennsylvania called Karen. We established a fund with a treatment center just outside of Baltimore for people of color. So if you identify from that community, you call and you are getting treatment. You are getting help. And we were really proud of it. I was really proud of it. And so we rolled it out. And I received.

some hate yeah i received some hate that was hard and i i heard thing like white savior i heard you know like these things that came back to me and i took a deep breath and i said okay like what was your intention what were you trying to do as a whole what are you trying to accomplish and so i'm not sure what my question is and like if i'm really direct it's like okay i'm a 40 year old white man right and um i try my best to be sensitive to a lot of things and i try to be helpful and sometimes i find myself getting beat up and so i would ask you like in your experience in your career like what would you tell me like like like it's like for me it's like one love like how do we all come together and and and help right so we we all want to unify around

helping others, helping, you know, humanity at large, right? And there's always going to be haters, right? Like no matter who tries to do what, you're, it's staying on the path of good, right? And focusing on the fact that although not everyone will ever agree with you, you've helped people, right? You've changed people's lives through your empathy, through your generosity. right um you know

and that does make you feel better as well but you know we are in a society where now it feels like more than ever um we're polarized right we have these polarizing we're at you know we're witnessing war everything feels very um polarized in some way whether it's you know through religion through race that's not going anywhere, right?

So if you let that be a deterrent, it will always be a deterrent. There will always be someone to criticize the work that you do. But the point is you have to focus on, you know, what is the North Star? What is the main thing? The main thing for you is, you know, what do you feel is living a purpose-driven life? If living a purpose-driven life is using your platform, your financial resources to help others, let the critics critique, right? Because there's going to be tens of thousands of other people

who are going to say, hey, thank you, whether they are black, white, Asian, Native American. Like, if they are touched by it, it's the human connection, helping someone's life, right? Like the ability to help others, you can't look down on it. There will always be someone to look down on it, but you can't let that deterred you from caring. it on you know and that's why you know even for yourself you have to have someone to support you

right put your oxygen mask on first like do you have a therapist who you can talk through those things with right because you know white saverism is a real thing but the point is you feel driven this is your calling right you can't let that title keep you from helping because you're helping in helping the LGBTQ community and helping communities of color, you know, you're also helping white males who are out there being served as well. So carry on, right? Like that's all I can say is like carry on

because you're doing great things. I appreciate you letting me take that little inner, I mean like I just, I don't know why it came to me, but as you were talking, I kind of just felt compelled to ask the question, so I appreciate you hanging in there with me. And in your answer, which was so beautiful, you mentioned kind of this human connection. And so there's this other report. Is it the community report or you guys have done a lot of work?

Because I'm like, if you follow me or you hear me, it's always for me. It's community. It's community. It's bring people together. It's bring people together. It's show up here. It's, you know, we do these Monday night runs in Central Park. And that's the whole spirit of it.

It's just like, anyone can come wherever you're from. Like, just show up. You'll get a water. You'll get a workout and you'll get a laugh. And that's what we can promise. And so it's the report was what young people in crisis need from their mental need from their communities. And that's our community resilience report. But what you just described, those events touched on those six elements, on several of those elements, right?

You're creating a space for social connection. Everybody come out. You're exercising, right? That was one of them. and you're just providing that outdoor space right everybody's coming to a third to an open space to take in so what are the six again it's so the six are opportunity for social connection you're doing that social connection arts so if you set up some art stations when they come out right you can capture that but you know participation in the arts mental health support exercise exercise by running, right? You're hitting on the exercise. Books, so books are audio books, and open spaces.

So being out in the park, come one, come all to this open space and engage in exercise. I mean, you're tapping several of the top coping strategy. You're providing a space for coping strategies. You're improving mental health by that one event. New York's crazy in that way, like people think this concrete jungle, but if you really seek it, there's so many, I mean, I'm really proud that the city has a ton of public spaces and parks and places for folks to get together. And that's why the report helps to emphasize the need, right? So if someone's making a decision between closing a park or rehabilitating a park, they now have the data to say, like, don't do that, right? Because this is something that. that's supporting young people. So, yeah, so like the open spaces of New York

provide that social opportunity, that opportunity for social connection. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so fascinating. I mean, I was sitting with someone, I guess it was last week, and this is a 32-year-old guy, good-looking kid,

like has it all, you know, kind of going on. And we started chatting, and the loneliness, that he felt was a loneliness that you wouldn't wish on like your worst enemy yeah and he was near tears he's like Zach I just I don't even know how to meet people yeah and I felt like my response was like the kind of everything that you're saying right so he depending on his age right spent two years potentially during the pandemic in isolation and those are important those are fundamental and foundational years for young people to have learned to socially connect and start to learn

socially appropriate skills. And many of them were home, isolated by themselves. So there's a developmental delay for many young people where they don't feel like they can have, you know, conversations easily with adults or with their peers. So then that makes them retreat to the social connection via the phone, which only serves to cycle them back away from in-person experiences. So we as adults have to find a way to create those opportunities for social connection. What are we, you know, are we creating opportunities in community centers for kids to come and just talk or relax or hang out or eat? But to be with other people, that's what they're asking for. Yeah. So what you're saying, like, so white saviorism is a real thing, right? And we are

a nation that was built and developed and flourished through slavery, right? So there is, there was, and there is still a racial hierarchy. So at, you know, when you step back and see someone who's white male, you know, and presumably has the most power in this hierarchy, stepping forward and giving money to those who are oppressed, that's a natural sort of line you can draw through there. However, you know, what does it mean, right? So are you helping the infrastructure? Are you helping the, you know, you're helping individuals,

but I think also you have to look at, you know, what are you doing to kind of support what we call the groundwater? So we know that the way our country was developed really has created this hierarchy based on race, based on gender, and that doesn't mean you shouldn't sort of lean into what you feel is your calling and your purpose. How do you? I don't know if fix is the right word, but do you, I mean, do you have further thoughts on, like, the solution to that, or is it? I mean, like, it's a loaded question. I get it. I mean, like, I get it.

I mean, I think, so it's starting with, right now we're in a very unique, and I live in Florida. So particularly there, we're in a very unique time where we want to dial back on understanding our nation's history. Right? We don't want to make people feel uncomfortable understanding that this nation flourished and developed on the backs of Africans who were trafficked to the United States for the purpose of slavery. And that free labor is what made us this national, this country that's a superpower because we trafficked humans to do, to build up. this country into what it is now right and and that's just a fact right but if if younger people don't understand that fact and then don't understand post-slavery how policies and laws and things like the GI Bill right were set up to continue to keep black people and Native Americans and Latinx people ultimately in in positions of oppression right where the law doesn't help you

doesn't favor you it's it's the visual really is you're a fish in a stream right swimming with the stream right like that's one thing but when you look at and the stream being the systems that exist within our nation right so the educational system the criminal justice system the mental health system, right? If you are a white American, you are able to swim with that stream. If you are a person of color in the United States, you are always that fish swimming against the stream. So it's not even just your own willpower and your ability to swim. It's that, you know, you're disproportionately more likely to be pulled over by law enforcement. We see what happens when black people interface with law enforcement as compared to their white counterparts. We

We see what, you know, when we talk about stigma in the black community, especially, black people will not necessarily reach out to mental health professionals because we, we've been experimented upon in the past by mental health professionals, right? So there's a trust that doesn't necessarily exist there unless your therapist is someone who looks like you and kind of understands your experience. So, you know, and the, so when we, even speaking about stigma, it varies, like why people of color don't necessarily access the mental health resources, you know, if they are there even, is different for people in the black community versus Latinx community versus Asian community, because our experiences in this country, swimming against the stream, it varies. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't help. incredible thank you for sharing all of that seriously like it's it's helping me like it really is in this moment and i'm hoping it's helping others to hear and listen to that what you just explained and i couldn't help it think in this crazy conversation and us meeting here today in this very moment as we talk about behavioral health care and i think about my own recovery

and it's almost like for me, my experience, my recovery or the fact that I was willing to do some work around my behavioral health, my mental health struggles, and my substance use disorder, put me into this community where, and some of our literature even talks about it's like this group of people that normally wouldn't mix, right? It's like we share this common experience.

And that's all that matters. And so like a lot of times when I, we'll gather with fellows and we'll go out to dinner and we're all in recovery you look at that table and that's a diverse table because we're all just there shoulder to shoulder like leaning on one another for this like common thing

that we're trying to achieve and so it's like this weird almost like I think our society as a whole can learn from the behavioral health care like some of the things that work for us you know for me I'll keep it to me it's creating a community right and what is a community it's a space of shared interests, of shared experiences.

And it just goes to show, like, many of our experiences are more similar than they are different, right? No matter what your race is, if you've experienced trauma, our brains are all the same, right? Our brains are not different because our skin color is different. The brain's response to trauma, regardless of what your race is, is going to be the same. It's going to be, you know, depression, anxiety, substance use, right? What's different is the ability to access services as a person of color versus a white person. Those are the sort of external difference. But when you bring folks together around the table and talk about, you know, this is what happened to me as a child, same thing happened to me, same thing happened to me.

And this is my experience. I'm, you know, I'm experienced depression or I'm experiencing anxiety. you see the commonality the common response yeah heavy stuff okay so crisis text line professional leader in the space leader in the field public health expert leave us with i mean if you had your magic wand what's the hope where do we go from here obviously the work you guys are doing is incredible and helpful. But from a 3,000 foot view, what's the future of mental health in America and amongst our young people and how do we figure this thing out? We have to remain hopeful, right? And we all must recognize that each of us can play a role. So you can play a role

at your level with the outreach that you're doing with the face and the voice and the platform that you're continuing to lean into. I continue in my role where at crisis text line, we're both helping one text at a time, but we are also training volunteers to be empathy warriors and support on the platform, but take that training out to their communities and our training helps both interpersonally between someone who's taken the training and a friend, a family member, but it also helps individual mental health. Our volunteers find that our training helps their individual mental health as well. You can ask, you can clearly and empathetically, anyone can ask someone else whether they're having

thoughts, you know, noticing and actively listening, whether someone is having thoughts of self-harm. It's a very isolating time in one's life to think, to know that you're thinking about ending your life or harming yourself, and you cannot, or you do not feel like you can reach out to someone, but if someone asks, right, takes the moment to see you, hear you, and ask, you don't have to be a mental health professional to do that. You can say, like, you know, I see you're going through a lot. What you just described to me sounds heavy, devastating, right? Hopeless.

Sometimes people can have thoughts of harming themselves. Do you feel like that? It's far easier to say yes, right? I feel like that. And then let me sit with you and help you get some support, right? So that's a role that individuals can play, whether they're mental health professionals or not. So there's hope. There's organization like Crisis Text Line that's in the moment support, both as a resource and to volunteer.

So we're always looking for empathetic individuals who want to be trained to volunteer because they'll be on the platform and you'll always be supported by mental health professionals. So you're not handling these situations on your own. you have the support of a professional. And then just individually, interpersonally, seeing people connecting, getting out, right? And then advocating and continuing to talk about the conversation and normalizing mental health. Because I guarantee you everyone can speak about

an experience either related to their own mental health or someone, one degree of separation, a mother, a father, a sister, a friend, where they witnessed, if they're watching closely and if they're connected, the trials that mental health brings. It's beautiful. Those are four amazing suggestions.

The one that personally stuck out to me and has been a huge part of my life is service. I believe that when you do service, one, you can't be thinking about yourself, right? It forces you to get outside yourself and think of other people. So volunteering with crisis text lines sounds like an amazing opportunity and one that I will advocate any listeners who are looking for volunteer work to look into.

And with that, I will ask how people find you, how people do get involved. Like, leave us with the business card so we know how to get to you. So, crisis textline.org is our website full of resources, volunteer opportunities, all of our reports that I listed here today and more. texting help or Iyuda to 741-741 will get you support by a live trained volunteer crisis counselor who is supervised by a mental health professional on our staff in English or in Spanish and then WhatsApp or web chat we're accessible as well Dr. Turner you are an amazing human being I hope you're proud of yourself if no one has told you

today. You are loved. You are doing incredible work. We need more people like you. You have a fan in me and however I can personally support you. I will and yeah, we'll just keep going and fighting this thing together. Thank you for being here. Thank you. And I reflect the same back to you, Zach. Keep doing what you're doing because you are changing lives. Thank you. Awesome. That's all. Thank you. Sorry. You're good. Oh, that was crazy.