The Zac Clark Show - Weed Is Addictive, Sober Dating, and the Sober X-Factor with NYC's Dating Guru Lindsey Metselaar

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Is dating hard in sobriety? Should a sober person only date another sober person? Why is marijuana so fucking strong now? In this episode, we deep-dive into the world of modern relationships with a sober lens alongside Lindsey Metselaar, the dynamic host of the hit dating podcast "We Met At Acme." An early pioneer in podcasting, Lindsey's journey began unexpectedly in 2017 after a heartbreaking breakup on her birthday led to a candid conversation with a friend about the trials and tribulations of love. This conversation sparked the creation of her now popular podcast, where she shares her experiences and invites experts to explore the complex landscape of modern romance. Beyond her entrepreneurial ventures, motherhood, and a prolific talent for matchmaking, Lindsey is also sober. She has openly shared her personal struggles with addiction on her podcast, detailing her journey to sobriety from marijuana and an unhealthy love affair with Tequila. All things love, dating and sobriety, we get into a host of topics, including: - Lindsey's eye-opening journey from trying to be the “cool stoner girl” to realizing she was an anxious, self-medicating young woman in need of sobriety. - Sober dating: navigating relationships without alcohol. - Challenges of sober dating, dating “normies” (non-sober people) and the double standard for sober men. - Being young and sober in a culture that glorifies drinking and partying. - The rise of marijuana, “magic” mushrooms, and the growing popularity of casual non-alcoholic drug use. - Marijuana is not your parents “gateway drug” anymore. - Zac’s candid experiences with dating in sobriety Please join in and listen or watch our conversation with Lindsey Metselaar, a seasoned podcast vet and unofficial New York dating guru on modern love. Connect with Zac https://www.instagram.com/zwclark/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/zac-c-746b96254/ https://www.tiktok.com/@zacwclark https://www.strava.com/athletes/55697553 https://twitter.com/zacwclark If you or anyone you know is struggling, please do not hesitate to contact Release: [phone] releaserecovery.com @releaserecovery

All right, cool. Welcome back to the Zach Clark Show. I am super excited about our guest today, Lindsay Metzilar, who has done a lot of things. I was like, I started to look into you and I was so impressed. You have your podcast we met at Acme plus a litany of other kind of social media pages and you kind of get into your brand. You realize how much you've done. So thanks for being here, Lindsay. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited that you're here. And as you guys know, we're just trying to have conversations with people. who, you know, are doing good work in the world and you happen to be sober, which, you know, we share that common bond, which I appreciate six years in...

Six years, October 30th, which is a crazy time. What's, what was the date, your date? I'm August 30th of 2011. Okay. I mean, that's hard too, right? Like getting sober on Halloween and getting sober in the middle of the summer, those are two tough times to get sober. Yeah, I always say like To get sober in August Like you had to be pretty fucked up Yeah, yeah It's just like you know

Like right before Labor Day And the summer's like coming to an end It was just that was the day that it was going to happen Right like to end your summer willingly You have a lot of will Yeah And I feel intimidated right now

Because really you should be on the other side of this Which hopefully I will come on On your podcast but maybe I'll learn a couple things here along the way. So super great for you here. I want to start with you have a six month old son. I do. At home.

And his name is Zachary. Same as Zachary. And I have to tell you. I want to dig here. My husband and I are obsessed with the name. And part of the reason, and this is a testament to you as well, we don't know one bad guy who's named Zachary. like does anyone know a guy who's just like wow zachary such an asshole never right like think about all the Zachary's you know people listening everyone's just a good dude i like that i appreciate that so it's amazing so i was like you know i like to research my guest so i was kind of going through it was either your personal page or the podcast page and there's a picture of you with your with zachary but in the caption it said zi-c-h-1

Zachie, which is what my mom calls me. Really? Like, she's the only person that calls me Zachie. So I had this moment of like, okay, I'm excited to talk to Lindsay. There's a lot going on here. Oh my God, I'm getting like a future like forward to my son talking about what I call him. Yeah. Yeah.

I was actually growing up convinced that Zachary's or Zach's did not live past the age of 30 because like as I'm growing up, I had never met someone that was really older than me. Yeah. But I think the name's gotten more popular. Oh, no, it's because the name is definitely, I wouldn't say it's like new, but it started probably like 40 years ago. Okay. Maybe 35. You might have like started it off.

I might be the first. Are you named after anyone? I don't know. I'm so bad with that shit. Yeah. My middle name is my dad's middle name. Like we share a middle name, but I don't know. What is it?

William. Okay. That's a strong name too. Zachary William Clark. Yeah. Williams are good guys except I feel like Prince. William might be a cheater but we don't like cheaters we don't that's like a no-fly zone for me um as I'm sure for you so totally so where do you want to start so let's start so where the

podcast we met at Acme I'm very curious did you start that well let's start with your like your journey you grew up in New York City I grew up in New York City I um I went to school in Boston came back to New York was like always okay so I'll do like my sobriety story into the podcast yeah yeah um was one of those kids growing up who was just like I'm never going to do drugs and I'm never going to have sex like I'm going to wait till marriage to have sex and I'm going to I have an older sister and she was like super into you know partying and I think that's what like turned me off initially like I was like I'm better you know like I'm not going to be like her yeah and so I was like I'm never going to do drugs like I always wanted to be the favorite

child and I thought that that's like how I would achieve that as well and I also like was on a role like I was a really good student whatever and I hated alcohol I hated the taste of it I remember I would like try to drink a beer and be cool with everyone and then I was like and I would just pour it in the sink at parties and like pretend I drink it and so I was like I'll never you know care about this shit and I actually just have hadn't found my like drink of choice yet that I liked and I hadn't found my you know drug of choice yet so I just like wrote it off like I'm not gonna be into it right right and then everyone started like going to the park and smoking pot because central park central park

growing up in the city like that's that was our backyard it's it's safe to go to the park not today no right deaf and it wasn't then either like we we got jumped once I'm not even kidding I swear to God like eighth graders got jumped by just random New York Like other kids But like scary kids Oh I love that And so we were like going to the park

And smoking weed And like that was probably the first time I inhaled And I was like oh this is the best Don't they say you don't get high the first time you inhale Or is that I think I was just having like a cough attack But I still was like this is cool Whatever's happening And then when I did get high

So you swore off drugs until eighth grade Well I'm going to be in fifth grade you were committed to the no sex no drug life well so that wasn't like my real experience that kind of took to me right it was again in 11th grade my junior year when I like revisited weed and I was like this is amazing and I was laughing and I had like the real high experience and I started to like slowly try other alcohol other than beer like wine and tequila Did they have a Zima back then? Do you remember Zima? What is that? Zima was like this really... Is it like phronsie?

No, it was like a malt. I don't know. But that shit was like was around and popping. I'm 40. Like schnops or whatever? No, it was like almost like a lemon malt. Z-I-M-A-Zema. I don't know.

But I feel like that was what a lot of people were getting drunk on when I was... Interesting. It's hard to keep up. Like I don't even know what the fuck the kids are drinking today. I'm scared of what they're drinking today. But so then it was like off to the races with weed and when I went to college, I was like into tequila. And it was like the weed in tequila. Okay.

The weed and tequila situation was my, was my jam. And then got back to the city, like, but by that point was smoking weed like all day, every day. When does that start? Does that start in college? Started probably like end of freshman year of college. was in like a crew that would because we were living in the dorm so we would like leave the dorms go to the soccer field and smoke together and it was hard to like be smoking all the time because I didn't have my own place yeah so probably like sophomore year when I got back it was

like it was all the time for sure and this is how long is this like this was you were smoking flour right you were smoking the actual I was smoking spliffs actually but but you like Like you were like, because the kids today are smoking the oils and the vapes. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't give a fuck about that stuff. Okay, cool. I was hitting a bong or rolling a joint with weed and, um, and tobacco. Right.

Like, that was my thing. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, thought they were so, I, like, there was a small overlap with me still smoking in the weed pens, but I was like, these are so stupid. Yeah. So stupid. That's one of my, even like the, like, I've never taken a hit of the, the vapes. Like, I'll have an occasion. occasional cigar or even if I'm being really bad a cigarette but like the vape it's so dumb like the

whole point is like the art of it you know it's like cool you're holding a thing you roll a thing and so everyone was smoking the same amount as me at college so it just didn't feel like I had a problem like why would I have a problem and I was so obsessed with it and I thought it made me so cool and so chill because I'm super type A so I was like this is making me like that easy going girl you know that like everyone wants to hang out with. But it was obviously like really numbing me out. And there were certain things that happened to my family in college that like I didn't even get to experience like death.

Like my aunt died, my grandpa died and I was so like far removed. So you didn't, you just didn't show up for that stuff? I did show up but I was high. Like I was just, I was in outer space. That's the thing I think people miss about sobriety for me. Like the initial, the initial fear I had of, you know, like fly. going to a funeral, going to a wedding, like doing any of these things sober

was such a foreign concept. But then once you walk through that once, you realize that being present and being connected at those events is really what life is all about. And like I have a different, you know, mindset when it comes to death now. It's like how beautiful is it that I get to show up

and honor this person and their life and not be in the bathroom snorting coke it's so true and it also makes you look back and like cringe so hard at yourself because you're like wow how dare I give a speech at someone's funeral hi like who the fuck did I think I was right that's embarrassing right um or like at a wedding or whatever and so fast forward yeah just real quick on that when people I always laugh when people get sober like they'll be like I don't want anyone to know like I can't have them find out that I'm so like did you see yourself Yeah, yeah.

What do you think they thought then? Right, right. Come on. So ridiculous. Like, yeah, if anything, you should like be wearing that on your shirt that you're sober. Right. People would be thrilled. And cut to like, I'm, I turn 27, still smoking all the time, like, always high, tequila at night.

So like blacking out basically all the time. And choosing, like, in relationships. And where are you living? I'm living in the city. I'm choosing relationships where like they will allow this behavior. Like I would not be with someone who was like you should stop smoking or you shouldn't like drink tequila. Anyone that was going to question that part of your life was off the list. Off the list.

And I got dumped on my 27th birthday by a guy who actually sucked. Like he was not like, you know, someone that pointed me in the direction of sobriety by any means. Yeah. But I got dumped then and that's how the podcast. Do you know what he's up to today? He's getting divorced. Okay. we don't have to smile but like I mean you know you know I get um but uh because I was very

single and you know I threw out my like weed smoking and this and that I happen to still have really good game with dating and like all my friends were coming to me for you know texting advice dating advice whatever and I loved dating I love talking about it just in your soul like you just knew you just got like deeply in my sense soul. I was just like obsessed. And we briefly touched on astrology, but I'm a Libra and Libras are just like obsessed with love. We just love love, love people's stories, whatever. And did that make you confused? Like, did you like just love everyone? Or like once you met someone you were able to commit to that person? Um, like a mixture. Okay. Yeah. And, um, and, um, fascinating. And, and I was like,

I need to talk about dating because I thought I was an expert. I just got dumped at my 27th birthday. So that's what made me start the podcast, started talking with friends. It expanded to like celebrities, influencers, therapists, dating coaches. And the embarrassing part throughout this whole first year of my podcast is that I'm smoking weed on the podcast. Like we'd be sitting here. Oh yeah, like a Joe Rogan like style like weed smoking. Probably didn't hurt the brand early. I mean it was before like people were doing that.

It was like weird to do it because at the time the podcast were only like, true crime and news. Right. And then like a girl smoking weed talking about dating. It was weird. You're kind of a trailblazer. I guess. But I remember, like I look back and, you know who Jerry Ferrar is?

Yes. Like loosely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Great guy. Amazing guy. Okay.

Came on my podcast. And at the time I was recording in my apartment, which is like good on him. Like such a good guy for coming over to like this girl's apartment. We had a mutual friend. So it wasn't totally random. Right. I was, I thought that he was a weed smoker too because like he's turtle from Montrash.

That's what they do on the show and that's his character and whatever. So I was like hitting a joint. I was like, do you want some? And he was like, no, I'm good. Like I don't do that anymore. And I feel like that was the first time where I was like, wow, this is more like I'm mortified by myself, you know, because I thought this, I'm still under the impression that this is really cool of me.

Right. And like makes me that like cool sonar girl. But no. So fascinating. because I feel like that's the power in our stories, right? Like that's the power and not, like I don't, I sit here.

I talk about being sober, but I like to talk about a bunch of other shit, but I think people see or know that I am sober. And then it's like they go out with me or we go to the place and there's drugs around. And I'm like, no, I'm good. And people are like, how do you do that? I'm like, like you were saying,

it's not even a thought anymore. And I think for you, was he sober? He just was like, no, he was just like, yeah, I don't do that. And I was like, it's cool to see someone that you think is cool and that you respect being like cool with themselves, not doing something. You know, like, it's weird to see someone not give into peer pressure so effortlessly. Right. And you're like, why can't I do that, you know? Or why am I creating the peer pressure?

Like, who am I? So what happens from there? You have this moment. You do the podcast. So I have that moment. It goes great. He's awesome. You know, a few more months pass.

And I definitely start to have like the willingness to get sober. I'm like. Did you know at that point? Did you know anyone like in your circle or in your peripheral that was. Yes. Okay. I had one friend who was sober. But I didn't know her full story.

And I thought that she was just like doing it for attention. I got, I was like, She just, like, wants friends. Yeah. And she was like, will you come support me at a meeting? Okay. Like a sober meeting in AA. And I was like, sure.

Like, God, like, you know, she really needs my support. I think, you know, any. I'm going to be a good friend. Right. Anyone who's sober knows that if anyone, if you invite someone to a meeting with you, you don't need their support. You're trying to show them the way. Right.

But I didn't know that. And so I went to this meeting with her. And at the end of the meeting, everyone's. hugging her, saying hi, I'm like, you needed this. Like, you wanted this, like, ego boost of friends. Like, this is why you're doing this, you know? Like, I didn't think anything about it having related to me. Meanwhile, there's a lot of places you can go to get friends outside of, like,

I guess. Meetings. Right, right. And so I had that experience. And then for me, though, even though, like, tequila was a weakness of mine, the weed was, like, my thing that I couldn't live without. And a lot of people don't realize that weed is very addicting, especially today. It's so much stronger than it used to be.

And you could have, I think there's like, I forgot the name of it. I wish I remember, but there's a disease that you can get now from smoking too much weed. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I mean, there's marijuana-induced psychosis. I mean, people, like, the mental health is. But there's like a, it's like a, you start vomiting uncontrollably. We're going to figure out what it's called because it's a real thing. Want to Google that?

But I started to have like a small case of that, I think, because when I wasn't smoking, I couldn't eat. I was like super nauseous. I've heard that. So it's interesting. I told you a little bit about what we do at release. And when we started back in 17, I mean, it was it was kind of like your garden variety alcoholics, the people that just could not stop drinking. And then your heroin addicts or like your quote unquote pillheads. Right.

Today I would tell you that if we have 60 people in our sense, are in our community, 40% of them are weed. Yeah. I mean, it's wild. Yeah. And, like, they say, like, gateway drug, but it's not, but, like, it's a drug. It's a drug. And then also, I was at the point where I was really loving, and this one is very popular

right now, the, uh, microdosing of shrooms. And everyone thinks it's like, it changed my life and it made me a better person. And it's like, no, you're just fucking partying. bro like you're not and and they're so and I was so triggered because a sober girl came on a sober girl came on my podcast she's actually a famous person I'm not going to say who she is yeah but if like anyone wants to go back and figure it out they probably could and she was like get on that and she was you know preaching sobriety and she had been sober for 10 years and then she starts telling me about like her shroom trips yeah and I'm like what yeah like mind or mood altering what don't you understand yeah you know and and that was me towards the end of you know my stint i was like all about the chocolate shrooms popping them like all the time i was i think like right before you get sober it's like you are willing to do anything to escape your mind like anything yeah yeah i i missed the whole shroom train like when i was eating mushrooms you

would get them in a plastic bag and it was the actual mushrooms right right eating the caps and spinning out and heaven knows what but uh i think it's been i mean it's been challenging for me as someone who's you know a large part of my existence is recovery and i've been invited to every weekend shaman right buffo towed whatever the hell like have the experience and and by the way if you're listening you're like it actually really helped me with grief or whatever and I'm like some I don't have a problem like and I worked with a coach whatever like there are exceptions there are people who don't need that like aren't addicts that aren't alcoholics that don't you know that do have good experiences with mushrooms that heal from a loss or whatever

it is so like that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about like actual people that call themselves sober but they excuse themselves to like right do that stuff no it's it's confusing too It's just confusing for the person that's trying to get sober. And I believe that there should be like a wide, a wide birth and a wide entry into this. I think that's the beauty of a lot of 12-step programs is they kind of say just like, come and check us out. Right. You know, like if you want to like look at your relationship with alcohol, like we're here. And as much as we can like widen that front door, I'm with it.

But there's a difference. Like I was at a party this weekend and a large number of folks where, you know, microdosing shrooms and they were talking to me about the benefits of that instead of doing blow and I'm like okay cool that's all good the difference between them and me is I'm waking up on Sunday morning and I'm like eating another handful of mushrooms or like I'm going to the bathroom and doing another line of blow like they're like going home and you know hang out with their kids and they don't think about it for another three months you know exactly it's like you got to play the tape forward yeah did you look up what the what it's called CHS exactly

It's a real thing, CHS. So, like, if you're curious, Google it. It's crazy. There's a huge, like, community online for people who have it. It's a real thing. And so I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep without weed. So that's when...

And are you, like, what is your love life at this moment? Are you still dating? I always have a boyfriend, but it's someone that, like, I don't really care about. And clearly doesn't care about me because they're not stopping me from doing anything. But I'm not letting them either. But you're doing the podcast. You're like the dating expert. You're dating kind of these, like...

Well, I'm dating guys who, like, also. probably have a problem so we both kind of look the other way at this point any of these dudes gets over not yet okay there's two exes of mine who still need to at some point but we'll see yeah um and so I um I have a willingness it's the morning and I wake up and I'm like I don't want to smoke today and I do it's like 9 a.m and I happen to be on g chat at the time do you remember g chat I mean vaguely yeah it's like no one uses it anymore but it's like we all used to be at our is working and like we would use gmail gchat to come to talk your friends yeah and i gchatted my sober friend who had brought me to the a meeting and i was like this is so random but like are

there meetings for weed and like that sounds crazy you know right and she's like actually like she'd done a quick google search she's like i just found a meeting it's five minutes away from you and it starts in five minutes and i was like that's crazy it's like i guess i have to go so i went to the meeting i was like a marijuana anonymous meeting a marijuana anonymous meeting i was so I like I don't like talking to like I don't I don't I'm just so I was so scared in those situations like I at that at the time I didn't even even go to a workout class because I didn't want anyone to like look at me like I was because I had like weird paranoia like yeah you can figure it out yeah I was so paranoid yeah and so I was like

fuck it and I happened to have like all the moments of like all the God moments on my way to this meeting like the elevator was waiting on my floor Like, I walked to the meeting, like, the sun was on me. The ocean just parts. The ocean parted. And I walked in, and, like, this such a sweet, friendly guy was, like, welcome in, like, grab a chair. And I was like, I'll listen to what these people have to say, you know. Like, and then I'll go and, like, smoke because I haven't smoked in an hour, so I'm going to get super high.

Yeah. And I left that meeting. I never smoked again. No shit. Or drink or anything. Totally sober since that day. So weird. That's not weird.

It's amazing. And like, kudos to you, I think people get so caught up on the, on like, like as humans, I think we, we like tend to judge people, right?

So you walk into like, I'm just picturing the room, whether it's like the mustard seat or one of these like, you know, places in New York City where, you know, people meet and you,

someone like with this podcast and having some success and could very easily judge the people in that room. And instead of, saying like this guy was like very kind and welcoming like run the other way because it's a guy that's greeting you that you know has nothing to offer you totally i mean especially in the weed meetings themselves like i was like it's i'm i'm basically the only girl in these meetings

yeah so i'm like this is just weird you know but like miss it miss the meetings no the weed oh no i honestly don't like i did like there like there will be times where i'm like seeing some like 3D movie and I'm like you know it would make this movie better but then I'm like then the rest of the the year like I'd be or the rest of the day same thing with you like the rest of the day I'd be like getting chasing that feeling again I mean unpopular opinion I think weed fucking sucks like I just I don't I don't see any of the benefit I get paranoid I get a ton of energy so like I I would take bong hits and then have to like go play bass because I was just like my mind would be racing I wasn't like a curl on

their covers guy and watch you know movies uh and it just i don't know you eat food and you sleep it's just fucking sounds so lazy and lame no it it and it is and like once i had a few years under my belt because i have friends who were smoking just as much and like i saw them you know i saw like i just saw the way that they were they are or whatever and i was just like i can't believe i was like this you know like I see it or like you go meet someone and they reek of this smell and I'm just like I can't believe that was me you know so I'm very curious because a lot of the questions I get so you get so over you go to this meeting you stop something like congratulations first of all fucking rocks it's the best I feel like people like us we know that this life is so beautiful but

so you you had that experience but you're still like this young attractive single girl with this podcast living in New York like what does the social life how does this change your social life are you like cool to like go to the club Friday night are you like laying back for a minute I think that's like a lot of what people question in early sobriety yeah it was really hard I was in a relationship when I got sober and technically they say not to like change your relationship status until you have a year is that like real though I think that's just all bullshit therapist talk you know I actually like it like I like don't I like don't I like don't date till you have a year and I like don't change like don't edit your shit because I do feel like

you don't really have the clarity until you get to a year and so like you know but like you don't really know so it probably took me a year to be like this person is not the one for me like I knew along the way but I was like yeah no this person's not the one so after a year I ended that relationship and then I was single And he was cool. Like he was like supportive and kind of understood what you were. Oh, well, it was a little difficult because I think like he had some issues as well. Yeah.

And so like that came to the surface. Like that was, you know, I was having realizations of like, this guy definitely drinks a ton. You know, he's not leaving the party with me. Like he wants to stay type of thing. Yeah. And so then I felt lonely, very lonely like in my sobriety. And like I was the only advocate for. myself and I didn't feel like I had the support you know like I would if I wanted like if I

were at a party of like his friends yeah and I wanted water like I'd have to ask him to get me water whereas I feel like it's not so crazy to expect your partner who should be supporting you in new sobriety to like make sure there's like a diet coke for you or a water for you whether you're supporting you in early sobriety or not shouldn't the guy kind of like chivalry dead like hey totally and I just I started to feel like I wasn't supported in that way so that relationship ended and now we're like

we're a little deep into the podcast at this point but just for a second and then are you have you told like because it's not the traditional like a lot of people go to rehab or this long arduous kind of like chaotic

for you was kind you just had this moment of clarity and like family friends like when did you start to tell people like yeah I'm just not drinking or doing drugs I was very I was very hesitant to tell people at first

because I didn't know if it was going to stick and I didn't want to like make someone happy and then make them sad and you know that's very tight way like I'm going to make sure I have this thing totally and so I didn't tell anyone really except like my best friends because like they would know if I wasn't smoking with them and and I remember I would like still

you know I would still go out to parties and to bars with friends and there was one guy and you know there's always one guy right who's like take this shot and you're like no and like I'm good you know not tonight and he's like no you need to take this shot and it's always that guy who like has a problem yes he's the guy he's the fucking guy he needs to get sober yeah I tell it to everyone it's like whoever's forcing cocktails down your fucking gullet needs to get sober immediately because they're like no like don't make me feel bad to do this alone it's like bro like so I remember I took the shot and I just threw it over my

my shoulder. But like that happened a few times. And then I had my first sober wedding. And it was a shitty situation because I didn't have a plus one because I like wasn't really in a serious relationship. And it wasn't a close, close friend. And so I was like at a weird table like blah, blah, blah. But then there was a like a God moment, a higher power moment where the person that I was

seated next to was sober. No. I swear to God. Amazing. It was so crazy. But it again was one of those weddings were like not only is there an open bar, but there's a bar cart that comes to your chair. And it's like, tequila?

You want tequila? So I just like bounced early. And then from there, I started to get more confident about it. I remember I told my parents that Thanksgiving because it was October 30th and then that Thanksgiving like a month later. I told them. They were so happy. but like also kind of confused but happy you know whatever and then I kind of what does this mean are

you right and then I came out with it yeah I kind of like came out with it from then on like in like a always downplaying it way yeah what were what was I mean I don't want to ask you because I want you to tell me no it's fine ask we'll do um but like were you like how long did it take you to be very gnarly I mean I had a knockdown like I was in rehab and then I left No, no, no, but once you're, once you have it, right? Once you're sober. Are you, like, telling people off the bat? Well, I stayed, I was in rehab for four and a half months.

So people were kind of like, where's that? Right, right, right. It wasn't like I, like, I, like, went to a meeting and then was, like, out with the guys at the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, hey, I'm just not drinking today. Right, right. What the fuck happened to this dude? It's just nowhere.

Yeah. And this was back when, like, you actually went to rehab and they, like, took your phone. Like, now, fucking, you go to rehab now. And it's like, you can have your phone. Yeah, it's weird. Whatever. So for me personally, I say within that first year, I started to do a lot of this, which I had never done, like go to coffee with people and like part of the recovery process is like the amends. And so it was really organic and natural for me.

I mean, people knew that I had a problem. There was no questioning that. And then I just got like, I hit a point in that first year where I just got very comfortable with it. And I'm grateful for that because I feel like that's what holds a lot of people back is this guilt and shame they carry around like, I don't know, being a failure or like having to get sober or whatever it is, but I found it to be almost empowering. Yeah, no, I agree. And I like going back to being single in the city sober because people are so worried about

that. Yeah, I want to talk about that. I would go out, actually I would go to Acme a lot. And there was one bartender specifically. that I would always go to and be like, hey, can I just get a water? And I swear he must have been sober, but we never, like, discussed it because he was always like, I got you. Like, he was just like, there could have been a million people

throwing their credit cards and, like, their cash at him. And he was like, no, no, no, I need to get her the water. Like, he, like, there's a lot of bartenders who really get it. Yep. They really, like, are, like, don't underestimate the kindness of people. Like, people understand sobriety more. But also I think today it's like cool to be sober. Yeah.

Thank God. Yeah. I love that. I think with the bartent, yes, I think it's very cool to be sober. I think I would like to talk about that. The bar thing is always funny to me because I'm a people pleaser. So like when I go into a bar and people are ordering drinks around me, I'm like, I'd have to leave the big tip. And like, like, that's where like my alcoholism so fucks with me is like, you know, you can just get a water and leave a couple bucks, dude.

You know, like I want to overcompensate me for the. fact that I'm not getting a drink yeah yeah yeah I feel that way too I'm like oh no he just gave me a water like what do I do for him no I've tried to tip on water before and they're like absolutely not like keep your dollar thank you it's like that's an insult yeah so okay so you're at a year you're single the podcast is kind of like take it off is doing well I like I was so scared I'm like I'm not going to be creative anymore now that I'm not smoking but podcast you know was doing better than ever and And then I met my husband.

At Acme or no? No. In Miami. Okay. On New Year's. Like classic love? Like just saw each other. Like on the dance floor.

No shit. It wasn't like as seamlessly classic. I was still dating someone else. But there wasn't like we weren't, you know, like we just like we knew each other from back in the day. Actually my sober friend, the one I mentioned before was the reason we knew. knew each other. She went to high school with him. Okay. So I kind of knew who he was. So we just like said hi. And then, um, that relationship I was in had like passed his expiration date. So eventually I ended up breaking up with that guy and I re- like, I reached back out to Stephen. And I was

like, I'm single now. Is that the message? Just I'm single now? Basically. I love it. Because he had like hit on me that night. But I was with someone. And so I was like, I'm single now. He can like go have a drink. I know you want to do. I'm the worst. Like I can't. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I have something like I don't know if people are hitting on me or not or they're just being nice.

Like I've always struggled with that. It's hard for guys. It's very easy for women. Like if a guy talks to you, he's hitting on you basically. I guess that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. But like women are nice.

Like we could, you know, we could talk to you and have no interest. I feel like women also get hit on more than guys. So you guys know how to like get out if you need to. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And be funny about it. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good point. Like, guys don't know how to get out of being hit on. Then they had married with four kids and then decide they want to get out. I've seen that story. Trust me. In my life, like, it's... Yeah, that's tough. Guys are soft, guys, they can't...

Yeah, they're lonely. We were just talking about this. Yeah. It's really hard for them to break up. It's hard for them to be honest a lot of times. Like, just in my experience with some of my guy friends, because at the end of the day, I think we feel. feel this responsibility to be the strong one and like the leader and the patriarch and

when the relationship doesn't work it's like and then you throw some alcoholism into that it's insane yeah yeah truly so you said something that I think is well when you say like sobriety is cool or getting like what is your thoughts on what you're seeing in the world yeah I'm seeing so many men and women being like, I'm just not drinking right now. Not necessarily being sober, you know, but just choosing not to drink on dates because they don't want to. And people responding in a really cool way to them. Like I was recently talking to a girl.

I was on her podcast and she was like, you know, like I know you're sober. She was like, I don't really drink. And I was like, that's awesome. And she's single and dating. And she was like, I was so nervous. because, like, I don't have a reason not to drink. She's like, I just don't really want to. Like, I don't want to wake up the next day and feel shitty and whatever.

She was, like, I was really nervous for dating. And, like, I go out on dates and only, like, one guy out of 10 would be like, no, have a drink. Every other guy is, like, great, I would love to drink less. Like, I would love to not drink tonight, you know? It's like, people are just waiting for the other person to make it okay. No one's, like, dying to have a bunch of drinks on dates. And, by the way, they're expensive. it's like 30 bucks a drink yeah

I just remember like dating in early sobriety talking to someone shout out Jay and I was like going on this date and I was totally like panicked and he's like the worst thing that happens is this girl judges you for not drinking

and if she does that then you have your answer like this relationship is not going anywhere and you kind of like get through it and you move on right if someone is really going to sit there and be like, what do you mean you don't drink? And they're horrified by that. You got your answer as to whether this person is going to be a, you know, a good partner, let

alone like, you know, casual, whatever. Totally. Yeah. I mean, anyone who judges that, again, like not to, you know, take other people's inventories, but like if you can't be with someone who's sober. Yeah, what's that say about you? Yeah. And I just, I haven't like outwardly and maybe maybe I'm just lucky. I mean, I've been on, you know, hundreds of dates

in New York, and I've never had the, like, the outward, uh, like, the, the outward reaction of, like,

what do you mean you don't drink? Like, there's always questions behind that, but also for me, like, it's my livelihood. It's my work. It's like,

what do you do for work? Oh, well, like, I run a treatment center. It's like, tell me more about that. Well, I'm just going to hit this head on.

I was a heroin addict and, like, turn my life around. And then they're just kind of like, okay that's really cool you know and then they want to like no more right right right yeah i mean it's just like when you take away the drugs and the drinking and like you know all that stuff and like you have just the person and like if you have a great connection with the person there's literally no need for anything else like for any enhancements like that and it's a really beautiful thing because my relationship with my husband he's never like i've only ever been sober

in our relationship and it's the sweetest thing in the world because like he drinks he's a normie he's a normie i mean he doesn't really care for alcohol like he'll never drink at home like he'll drink to make like you know if we're on a double date he doesn't want the other couple to like feel weird whatever he drinks like he's never like forcing himself but like he did he's not like i need a glass of wine what a day you know yeah um but it's just a really amazing thing because that has nothing to do with our story like it's just him and i and our connection and none of that which is like so weird yeah it's beautiful so as a girl like let me ask you this for the guy because like you know I bring a lot of guys up I mentor a lot of guys

and dating is a huge it's a huge trigger it's a huge thing that people I think men especially think about when they get sober your friends that aren't sober just your the girlies or whatever you refer to them as like what how how do would they like they? Like, how would they react to dating someone that's sober? Like, what is their thoughts around that you have, like... I'm going to be honest with you, and I feel bad saying it, but I do think there's a double standard with sober women and sober men. I think that people are less likely to want to date sober men than sober women.

I know that sounds fucked up. Why? I think that women are terrified of their partner relapsing, way more than, like, a man is terrified of their female partner relapsing. Right. And I think that sober man can do well dating if they have really strong sobriety. But they have to have really strong sobriety. Otherwise, it's like scary.

Yeah. And I have a friend who dated a sober guy, former heroin addict. Yeah. And he relapsed. Yeah. And he was doing heroin behind her back. Uh-huh. And like, it totally fucked her up.

And like, she's still not okay. Yeah. And I think that that can be really scary. And I'm not saying that women are better at sobriety than men, but women are just less scary than men. You know, like we're terrified of men as women. And you take like a man who has like a really like a big struggle and it's hard because like traditionally we want to be like the drama in the relationship. Do you know what I'm saying? I feel so bad and guilty saying it because I think sober men are incredibly amazing and so

beautiful but it's I think a little harder and it's like the one thing where men are like you know in a tougher position than women but I think it's also just for men like it's more reason to actually do the work yeah to actually get well like to actually you know recover and that that's the thing that always blows my mind you know men or women is like people will come to me or come to us or to you and start to ask questions about like how did you do it and then you start to tell them and it's not rocket science but they pick and choose what they want to do and they kind of like stay on that seesaw for many years because they're just not willing to surrender and be open to that moment like you like you did yeah no it's hard and like I think people in general can be

closed-minded to sober people because they're like well why should I date someone who has a problem when I could date someone who doesn't. Yeah. And it's like. Now I feel bad for all the dudes out there. Because we're super people. We're, um,

everyone I know who sober has like an X factor. Like it's just like a cool person. Yeah. Like I'm like that doesn't bore me, you know? Like I feel like. That made me smile so hard. Like that's true.

Yeah. I really do believe that. Like my sober friends are the most. interesting people in the world and I fucking love them like they're so cool I agree I agree I'm especially in New York City I mean like you run around this city long enough and you kind of do what we do and hang out with the people like you're gonna meet some really fucking cool people and smart people and you're gonna humble people yes which is so cool I mean the most self-aware people you'll ever meet like is just like you're able to just just have to just have

have a conversation with someone and like they could say something that offends you and you're like what the fuck was that and they're like oh it's my defects i think that's the one thing that i like when it comes to dating normies right like for me that has come up is i do believe that sobriety has given me this like i'm almost like hyper aware like i'm hyper sensitive to like my shit yeah and so I a lot of times find myself doing the inventory like looking at my part going back to whoever it is that I'm dating and you know apologizing or owning it and when that's not kind of like matched right have you dated us over a woman yeah but it's been a minute it's been a minute I mean that comes with it's a whole other host of like right you know like I mean to

two crazy minds and one i mean like i i i have always said like i prefer to date people that are not sober yeah yeah yeah i get that i just like i need a little bit of like the going out the secondhand smoke like i need a little bit of that my life like i just i i have to have some of that it's right you know like and part of that is like you know you're talking to cool people every day on your podcast you're out about and you have your like you were born and raised here For me, I moved to New York City and my friends that I made here were sober. Then I started the business, which is like based around sobriety. It's like, I need a little bit of like.

Yeah, no, I get that. It's like you need like, it's like when you go to an all, like an all boys school, you need like a co-ed camp. Yeah. So, so the life update is you're six years sober. You have a child. You're in love. You're happy.

Like all, all the things, right? Like, I mean, I think that's what people need to hear. there are, I mean, life, like, you have bad days, I assume. Maybe you don't. No, I do. Maybe that's your ex-actor. I do, but, like, gratitude overcomes everything, you know? And, like, my anxiety is, like, barely existent because I'm sober. Like, my anxiety was provoked by everything I was doing. Yeah. Um, and, like, I do service all the time, you know, I think that's a huge part of feeling good about yourself is giving back to others um and then i think i mean even this like this is like you saying yes to coming here and doing this like that i feel like that's the

attitude of people that are in recovery and what you said to me before this episode was so powerful and it's something i say all the time it's like if we help one person like if one girl hears this and like feels like maybe they can get sober from seeing me like fuck man that's it it was all worth it totally and by the way like you don't have to talk about being sober all the time like it's like no no not like you specifically like you have to well you legally have to I was like no I'm yeah yeah yeah but I mean like the girl who's listening who's like oh I don't want to like become that person it's like you don't have to yeah you know like it could just be like part of you it doesn't have to be your whole identity like which is cool and I just I feel like

I mean, look, by nature of going on reality television and The Bachelorette, like most of my followers are women and most of these women are writing in and they're just so terrified to reach out to anyone and for some reason like they feel comfortable reaching out to me and my, you know, like my pivot has to be like I got to immediately dish to other women who are sober because that's kind of what we're what we're taught. But it's a lot. I mean, it's a lot, you know, like, as you know, being public about your story. And, like, I just feel, you know, even just when you walked in today, like, we had never met. And I'm like, what's up? Like, you're like, what's up? And, like, we had immediate hug. And it's like, just chill.

It's easy. Yeah. Because we know, you know. It's that common, common bond. So what's next? Like, what do you, I mean, you're, help us promote. what you help us, let the people know what you're up to. We hopefully are having you on,

We Metatacme is next. We're doing in-person events, which is awesome. We do mixers sometimes. Actually, we have a pickleball mixer tonight. Where is that? Very interesting. It's on the East Village somewhere. That'll be fun.

And what else do I have to promote? Yeah, just listen to the podcast. There's a food account. Oh, that's like a funny thing I do on the side. It's called Don't Expect Salads. It's really, I started it when, like, when I was smoking weed, I ate like a five-year-old because I probably had like a disease that didn't allow me to like eat real food. Yeah. And I was like I love chicken fingers.

I love pizza. I still love, those are still my favorite food. So I started that food account because I like hated salad. And then it's a great fallback. I mean, the food influencing is like a whole other. totally oh my god getting invited to a restaurant for free in new york city is like that's a win in itself yeah and um i just started an account for my like mom my mom stuff so i don't spend oh you're gonna crush that it's just like a fun like little side thing started a little mom group um we met a baby

for all the moms out there and then yeah we met at acme still pushing along how many my my take away question is how many couples in new york city have your fingerprints on them? Like, how many people do you think you personally have? I have six marriages under my belt. Six. So you're like, that's the only stat you're keeping is marriage. Oh, yeah, because, I mean, not that anything else is irrelevant, but like, I definitely

have like 50 hookups under my belt, but I know for sure I have six marriages. Were you invited to all the weddings? I, okay, so I have to defend them. I wasn't invited to one of the weddings, but I didn't know them. Okay. I just set them up because, like, it was a friend of a friend and a friend of a friend. And I was like, these two friends of friends should date. And you nailed it.

Nailed it. And I ran into the guy actually at Barry's recently, and he was like, you set me up with my fiance. And I was like, sick. And that was that major day. Yeah, it was great. Incredible. All right, well, Lindsay Metzilar, check her out. Inspiring story.

I loved your story. It's just fucking cool. Lifelong New Yorker, six years sober. We met at Acme. We met at Baby. don't expect salads all the things entrepreneur mom I mean X Factor City right there so thanks for coming on and I guess I'll see you next on on yours can't wait thank you