The Zach Lowe Show - Denver Live Show With Tim Hardaway Jr. Plus, Zach’s Full Awards Picks.

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Zach is joined by Chris Ryan and Adam Mares to run through the final day of the season, dive into play-in predictions, and debate which first-round matchups matter most. There’s plenty of Nuggets talk, including how this team stacks up historically, what to expect against Minnesota, and why Nikola Jokic continues to redefine dominance. Later, Tim Hardaway Jr. hits the stage to talk about his time in Denver, playing alongside Jokic, stepping up when it mattered most, and key moments from the season.(0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show!(2:09) Zach gives out his award winners(20:15) All-NBA teams(31:00) Denver live show(37:48) Around the NBA, last day of the regular season(38:08) Adam Mares joins(54:06) Breaking down Nuggets-Timberwolves matchup(01:25:59) Tim Hardaway Jr. joins(01:45:20) NBA Finals predictionsHost: Zach LoweGuest: Chris Ryan, Adam Mares, Tim Hardaway Jr.Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy GilSocial: Keith Fujimoto #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! https://michelobultra.com/courtside MICHELOB ULTRA COURTSIDE ’25 to ’26. No Purchase Necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026 Multiple entry periods. See Official Rules at https://michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mickelope Ultra. Playoff season is here. So what better way to get into the spirit of things that with a tournament of your own? Compete to see who can make the best tip. Test your basketball skills with the game of around the world. Even better if Mickelope Ultra is on the line, especially since they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets,

prizes and more. Mickelope Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelope Ultra.com slash courtside. Mika Lobe Ultra Courtside, 25 to 26, no purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus. Begins on October 1st, 2025, and ends on June 30th, 226, multiple entry periods. See official rules at Miklobultra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. Coming up on the Zach Glow show, it's me in my hotel room.

I promise you I am not in a bathroom. This is just what the background of my hotel work area looks like. I'm not trapped in a bathroom. I am trapped in a hotel room with bad Wi-Fi, though, which stinks. However, I am about to go over to the Fillmore Auditorium in Denver to do a loaded live show about the Western Conference and a bunch of other stuff. And before that, I wanted to come on, make my final awards picks, very dicey award season. A lot that I labored over for a long time, flipped and flopped and flipped and flopped, made my final picks. I'm going to talk quickly about the Bucks and Doc Rivers.

Mark Stein and Jake Fisher just reported James Borago will be a candidate for New Orleans head coaching position, but was not just given the job after doing a pretty solid job in the interim. Doug Christie, Kang's just Kangs and around. So we'll do some awards. We'll do some coaching talk. And then the live show, it's not just Denver stuff. We're going to talk about entertainment value rankings of all the first round series. We're going to pick play-in games. We're going to talk MVP and legacies and things that are at stake in the playoffs.

And then we'll talk some Denver stuff to. Tim Hardaway Jr. is coming on at the end. That's all coming up on a funky edition of The Zach Lowe show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA postseason is here, and Fandul knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. Fandul is the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build the same game parley or try live betting and jump in after tip-off.

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All right. It's time. No more dilly-dallying. No more delaying. Regular season is over. All the games are in the books. It's time to give out some awards. One of the hardest awards seasons top to bottom I've ever had since I've been doing this, 15, 16, however many years it has been.

We'll start with the Big Kahuna, most valuable player of the NBA. And for the second straight year, I think it should be Shade Gildes-Alexander. By a little bit over Nicola Okach who I have second. Wemby third, Jalen Brown, fourth, Donovan Mitchell, fifth. If Luca Donchus wins his appeal, and I hope that he does, but I don't know that he will. In fact, I would probably bet against him winning it just because I think the NBA is really going to try to draw a line in the sand. We'll see. I would have him fourth, knock Jalen, fifth, knocked Donovan off the ballot.

I probably would have found a spot for Anthony Edwards. Had he been eligible? He's a few games short. This was Yokic's award as of Christmas. a couple of masterpiece games, including that crazy Minnesota game on Christmas. He had vaulted past Shea. He was having a historically unbelievable season, even by his standards, one of the greatest seasons in the history of the NBA.

And then he got hurt, and he missed some time. And Denver survived without him. I don't hold that against him at all. In fact, all of these teams survived without their best players to varying degrees. Very impressive. Cade Cunningham would have been probably, probably actually, would have made my ballot over Anthony Edwards, actually, and Jalen Brown, if he had qualified. I should have mentioned him.

Pist and survive without him. I don't hold that against anybody. But he wasn't just quite the same guy for like the first 15 to 20 games after he came back. Defense had slipped a little bit. Turnovers like ratcheted up and just bizarre like non-yokic kind of turnovers. And I just think Shay like a freaking metronome. Just every game, 30 points, efficient shooting.

Very good defense for his position. He's not just like a long-for-the-ride being tugged by all the elite defensive players that Oklahoma City has. He's part of the machine, one of the best rim protecting guards in the league, has great hands. You can't really hunt him down. He's big and rangy and he tries really hard. He's a plus on that end. I don't really buy Stan Van Gundy's argument.

He made the case for Yokic, a very convincing case. He could, like, this should be a close vote. Yokic has done that much in the last three weeks of the season to, like, reinvigorate his case. I don't buy the argument that Stan made that they're equivalent as defenders. Even though Yokach's size means he's an incredible rebounder, one of the best defense. defensive rebounders in the league and those defensive rebounds translate right into offense right into Denver's absolutely unstoppable number one in the league with a bullet offense I just don't think they're the same level defensively and Shay 55% from the field for a guard at 30 plus the game is

ridiculous thought his playmaking went up this year leveled up a little bit this year and you know just like he's absolutely incredible like I don't know what else to say about the guy I think it also has to be mentioned. AJ Mitchell, 57 games, Alex Caruso, 56 games, Isaiah Hartenstein, 47 games, and J. Loom Williams, 33 games. So, like, the team was generally not there. And with Shea on the floor,

121 offensive rating, 105 defensive rate, and that's plus 16 and a half, boom, elite. Without him 110, 107. So plus three net difference about, plus 13. That won 10 number is interesting. That's like way below average at the team level on off. And here we are all these years later.

We just don't have any evidence. If AJ Mitchell and Caruso had played more, they didn't. We don't have any evidence that the Thunder have like a functional high level, medium level, whatever NBA offense without Shay's ability to score and play make and not turn the ball over, which is a huge part of his skill set. It's just like their offense just isn't close to good. enough when he's not on the floor. Obviously, the nuggets, as usual, are like plus a lot.

I think it's a plus 11 with Yolkitch on the floor and minus a little bit with him off the floor. Spurs are plus 17-ish, I think, so about the same net rating as Shea with Wembe on the floor and dead even without him. So all of these guys have airtight cases. We know about Wembe's defense. I just think Shay start to finish has been by a little bit the MVP. If you wanted to award it to Yokkich, wouldn't argue against you. Anyone else I'd kind of argue against you considering Wemby played.

so many fewer minutes, about 400 fewer minutes than these guys. So Shea back-to-back MVP's for me. And the wins have to matter too. Like it's not as big of the gap as it was last year. But the Thunder had been the best team all season. And they've been wildly better with him on the floor. And they finished with 10 more wins than nuggets. It's not 18 like it was last year.

So it's not dispositive on its own. But I'm going, Shea, MVP. All right, let's dispense with some easy ones. Defensive player of the year, Wemby, it should be unanimous. Chet Holmgren and Assar Thompson would be my ballot. Most improved player, Nikila Alexander Walker, Jalen Duren, Ryan Rollins would be my ballot. Nikolajal Alexander Walker, one of the absolute best stories of not just this season, but the past three, four, or five years in the NBA.

This is, he is the embodiment of what this award should be. This is the most wishy-washy award. You can give it to a million different players every year. You guys like Dennis Jenkins that barely even played. I think he played 23 minutes last year. six of any of the year candidate. He's almost more like a rookie than an improved player. Nikiel Alexander Walker is like mid-career, astonishingly leveling up in a way that you just don't, so you don't see guys average nine points a game, ten points a game, go to a team to be a

backup to an all-star guard like Trey Young. And then suddenly, oh, he's just a 21 a game score shooting 40% on a crazy number of threes. And he's one of the better, if not one of the best defensive guards in the entire league. He embodies the spirit in that he's not like a second or year guy making like the expected age appropriate jump or even a big jump by those standards. Even a fourth year guy like Dern. He's he's like middle of the road career dumped by New Orleans, dumped by Utah, dumped by Portland. I wouldn't quite say dumped by Minnesota. They had a money choice to make between Nikiel and Nas Reid.

They chose Nas Reid for reasons that frankly still make sense to me. He's a very good player, six man of the year candidate. They had these young guards notably Dillingham kind of in line to take. the Nikiel role. They were not able to take it. And so the wolves had to go through a whole rigmar roll to get Iodosumnu in there. And he's a six man of the year candidate too. And then the keel goes to Atlanta and just absolutely explodes. It's such an awesome story. He's a hard work. I was at a hawk shoot around in Brooklyn. I want to say it was like eight to ten games into the season, like super early. And the hawks were kind of scuffling, just cauling their way

around. They're probably around 500 a game under. They're playing the nets who stink. And shoot rounds getting done. I'm talking to some of the coaches, and I walk back to the media area, and the keels like 10 paces in front of me, walking by himself, and just muttering out loud, like, it's a big game, man.

We've got to win this game. We've got to take care of these games. It's a big game. We can't let these games go to waste. Just walking back to the Hawks locker room, talking to nobody but himself about what an important game, like the 10th game of the season against a crappo, Brooklyn Nets team was.

And I always stuck with me. Like, this guy cares about the right stuff. He's the most improved player. There's a million different candidates, but that's my ballot. Coach of the year, Joe Missoula, J.B. Bickerstaff, Mitch Johnson. I think Missoula and Bacerstaff are a clear one, two, in whatever order you want to put him in. I think Missoula is fast approaching, if not equal to somebody like Spow as the most

tactically sophisticated coach in the entire NBA. And obviously, his relentlessness, his demand for perfect execution, for unrelenting effort has radiated throughout the entire Celtics team. And this is a staff award too. This honors the player development staff of the Celtics who has turned all of these role players like Baylor Shireman, Jordan Walsh, Hugo Gonzalez, Luca Garza, on and on, into better players that anybody thought that they could be in an opportunity that they had never gotten before to the point that the Celtics just dusted the Orlando Magic who needed to win the game, even though they treated the game as a formality by sending Desmond Bain back over to the

bench to just chill out after getting 82 games. They're like, oh my God, Desmond, we need you. The backup Celtics are beating us. What a farce that was by the Orlando Magic. Congrats on finishing eighth in the east, by the way. Bickerstaff instills that same culture. I thought his lineup combinations were largely on point. JJ Red Squeeze 50 plus wins out Lakers.

And the Lakers fans, remember, who is the only one who took the Lakers over? This guy. Lakers, Lakers. Who else? Certainly Darko Rakovich, Charles. Quinn Snyder. Mark Daggnold, just, I think I've picked him the last two years. Same coach. Like, I don't, like, should be still just pick him. They have the best team. They do crazy, creative stuff all the time. David Adelman, Tiago Splitter, those are some of the names

I put. But Mitch Johnson, 60, whatever wins that the Spurs got, that's pretty crazy. They have a sort of unwieldy roster of young guys, veterans, young guards learning on the fly, and he deserves credit, I think, for helping make that all work. So he gets my third spot. Okay. Let's go to the home. hardest ones, six man of the year. There are a lot of candidates. And the leading two, I think, Jaime Hockes Jr. and Kelden Johnson are leaving pundits a little bit cold. Like there's this general feeling that there's not a slam dunk six man of the year like there is in a lot of seasons. And I kind of understand that. Hakez, who put up 16, 5 and 5 off the bench, you know,

30-ish percent on threes. I thought his defense dropped off a little bit as his role on offense increased. You know, just he or kind of a mediocrity. Keldon Johnson, outstanding shooting, but dipped down to 36% on threes by the end of the season. A very well-rounded player for the Spurs attacks closeouts can defend up and down,

but particularly up the positional spectrum. We've seen them defend Yokoichi. But there's also the feeling that the Spurs have like three legit six-man-of-the-year candidates. in him and Dylan Harper and Luke Cornett. So he's like valuable. The valuable quotient is something we don't often put into this discussion, but I think it belongs in this one.

So I've seen people pick guys like Isaiah Stewart or put Isaiah Stewart on the ballot, Alex Caruso, Dennis Jenkins, Luke Cornett's gotten some love. To me, a bunch of, like AJ Mitchell, I heard a couple people, pick him to win it. I just don't think those guys have played enough minutes. And we're talking five, six hundred minutes less than the two leading candidates. and I get that you could just go with who's been the best player off the bench. And for portions of the season, that could have been A.J. Mitchell, who's been outstanding.

It could have been Dennis Jenkins when Cade was hurt. But it's just a lot of minutes to make up. So here's how I ordered my ballot. I went Jaime Hockes Jr. one, Kelden Johnson, two, and I would assume two. And I was a weird case to put over all the guys I mentioned, plus Nas Reid and Reed and Reed Sheppard and Tim Hardaway Jr., Quentin Grimes. And there's a million guys. he's a weird case he's got traded midseason

and the team's net ratings with him on the floor are about the same but like that guy just pops he was mid-40s on threes the entire year he completely transformed parts of Minnesota's offense the moment he got there with his speed, his ability to attack an open space helped them win some games when Aunt was hurt and McDaniels was hurt

and they were trying to figure out who to play and how to play him I think he had an awesome season and Hock has over Kelden Johnson is a really tough call Kelton Johnson's like a heart and soul guy on that team. I talked about his defense already. I talked about the sort of like, I don't want to say holes in Jaime Hockis Jr.'s game, but the parts of it that leave you a little cold.

He still shot, I think, 50, let me just check it out to make sure. I think like 55%, 52% on twos, like a pretty solid number on twos, five dimes a game, and the value quotient tipped it for me. Like Tyler Hero missed a bunch of games, like half the season almost. be more. Norm Powell missed a bunch of games. They were just without, like Terry Rozier, just obviously we know what happened with

Teo Rozier, was a non-entity. They were just without a lot of guys all the time. And he played more minutes per game than Kelton Johnson. He's almost 30 minutes a game. And he felt integral to how they played. They're hard driving one-on-one, fast break, ISO-heavy style. He just felt so integral to their team that I think without him, they, the heat lose a little bit more than the spurs would lose without Kelden Johnson,

although they don't have a player quite exactly like his archetype. Harrison Barnes is kind of close. So I went with Jaime Hawkins Jr. By the way, the great myth of the Miami heat offense, please people stop telling me that because they average a million points a game, this is the greatest offense in the history of the heat. I've heard that a few times before.

What an incredible offensive year. They're like 15th in offensive efficiency. How are we still doing this where we don't understand pace and points per possession? All right. one, rookie of the year. I flip-flopped on this one 10 times during the season. I was ready to tilt Cooper Flag in the winter when he had the 49-point game, which I think was against Charlotte and a couple other big games after that.

I thought he passed Khan. Then he got hurt. Khan ended up playing 10, 12 more games, a couple hundred more minutes, something like that. This comes down to this for me. con canipal is better than Cooper flag at one thing it just so happens that the one thing is like the most important thing in basketball which is shooting the basketball he's not just a good three point shooter he's an a plus three point shooter led the league in three point shooting and is you know three point shooting is

like it's the meta skill it's the skill that unlocks all of your other skills you're a better driver because guys have to close out on you more because you're a better driver you have more passes that are you have access to so you're a better or passer. And all of those things lift up your teammates because they are the recipients of those drives and passes. You're a better screener. And boy, have they leaned into guard, guard screens and all sorts off the ball, on the ball, whatever, in Charlotte under Charles Lee. You're a better screener because guys have to stick to you. And it's panic time when you screen and flare out and screen and cut to the rim. And con can make plays short rolling to the rim. And that's why all the

advanced stats love him. It's not close between him in Cooper Flag. Every warp and snorp, I've got them all charted. They all are like pretty adamant. Con Cinnipple is the rookie of the year. You can say Cooper Flag fattened up at the end of the season in tanky games against bad teams or when Dallas was not competitive, fine. He did it pretty efficiently for the most part. But again, all the advanced stats point con. And this is very unlike me because I think normally I would just sort of end the analysis there. Like when all the advanced stats are screaming pretty loudly that it's the same guy, I usually go with that guy. And I, I think, I'm not going with that guy.

I'm going to pick Cooper flag in the end. And I think, first of all, the advanced stats get narrowed toward the end of the season. It's still sizable, but Cooper caught up a little bit. And I can hear the Hornets fans saying, wait, the Hornets are better with Khan on the floor than they are off the floor by a bit. Now, they're not good when Khan plays with Alamelo. We'll get there. The Mabs are about the same with Flag on or off the floor. The shooting efficiency is not close on twos or threes.

Actually, it's kind of close on twos. I think he got to, let's see. Flag finished 51% on twos, con 55% on twos. The true shooting is obviously not close because of the three. He's con 42.5% Cooper flag, 29.5%, which I'm going to round up to 30 just because I'm nice. I guess this for me is like a shooting can't be the whole thing. Cooper flag putting up 21, 7, and 5 on like semi respectable, 47% from the floor, semi respectable shooting numbers

on this team I think people that weren't watching the Mavericks just don't have any idea how busted this roster was like sometimes there was a point guard sometimes there wasn't sometimes there was a point guard who's a G league or sometimes there was no point guard sometimes there was

a representative starting center in Daniel Gafford sometimes it was Dwight Powell sometimes it was no center at all Derek lively didn't play the entire season PJ Washington played here and there it was just a complete mess of a roster and it's completely distinct from what con enjoyed in Charlotte where he got to play with lamello ball who's a borderline all NBA candidate and was healthy brandon miller who had a

breakout season and was healthy musa diabate rounded out there starting five miles bridges had a good season their bench with coby white and grant williams and colgbrenner and see on james it's like a well-oiled machine of a team he is at the forefront of it with lamello and miller but it's very much a three-man machine that is well-coached. And con defensively, defensively Cooper Flag is better. I should mention that, the size and the rebounding and the defense.

And I just think what he managed to do in that team context in Dallas, to me, the advanced stats and the shooting can't be everything. The all-around play, the defense, the team context has to matter a little bit. I think Cooper Flight will be a better player

than Con can nipple. I'm fine with either choice, to be clear. Here's what you can miss me with. And I've seen this from analysts. I've heard it privately from people lobbying for either player to me, even though I don't have a ballot,

being like, oh, it's absurd if you pick that guy. Come on, it's obvious. Zach, you got to pick our guy. Come on, Zach, it's absurd to pick. It's not absurd and it's not obvious. To me, it's a close race. The context of the teams are so wildly different that it's hard to compare. And I'm just going with the guy that I think is going to be a better player in the end

and did a lot with little functionality. around him by the slimmest, the slimmest of margins, which is very unlikely. And I put VJ. Edgecombe third because of the minutes

issues. Okay, those are the, he played like a thousand more minutes than Dylan Harper, who I think per minute has probably been better than VJ Edgecombe, but the minutes are the minutes.

Okay. All NBA, all rookie, all defense, and then we're out of here. All NBA, again, no Luca, no Cade, no aunt, first team, Shea, Wembe, Yokich, Jalen Brown,

Donovan Mitchell, my MVP valid. Second team, Kauai Leonard, I can see the argument for him making first team. He's been better per minute than Jalen Brown and Donovan Mitchell. I'm putting him second team. Jalen Brunson, Jamal Murray, congratulations, Jamal Murray. All these years, when is Yokic going to play with an All-Star?

When is Yokic going to play with an all-NBA guy? And you kind of thought like, oh, Jamal-Mir might squeak into the All-Star game, maybe make a third-team all-N-B-A. No, second-team all-N-N-B-A, and he's all-N-B-A, even if the other guy's all-qualified. He's all NBA one way or another. So Kauai, Jalen Brunson, Jamal Murray, Kevin Durant, unassailable numbers. And I put Tyrese Maxie on the second team.

He'd be bumped the third team of all the guys were healthy, but they're not. And he just played an enormous amount of minutes for a team that needed it every second. Third team, Jalen Duren, he's a must. Jalen Johnson, I think he's a must. Chet Holmgren, second best defender in the league.

Offensively, not what everyone dreams of him being, but still pretty damn good. shot super efficiently from two. And my last two spots came down to a whole bunch of guys. Kat, Scotty Barnes, Evan Mowgli, Shengoon, James Hardin, Lamello Ball, Danny Obdia, who kind of, I wouldn't say he struggled because Portland Surgeon to the 8th Sea, but his shooting dropped off a little bit, his defense dropped off a little bit. I ultimately went with Carl Anthony Towns and Scotty Barnes as the last two guys

on third team all NBA. Obviously, they'd get booted if we had a fully healthy or even semi-fully healthy roster of candidates. but they are there as all NBA players. Kat, I think, had a kind of underrated season, honestly, in a really nice last two months. Scotty, you're going to nitpick the three-point shooting. He doesn't even take them really anymore.

You just have to consider him more of a four-slash-five on offense and you put in his playmaking, his defense, his finishing at the basket, his transition play. I think there's enough there over a bunch of, frankly, kind of flawed candidates. And the advanced stats, really, by the way, if you care, they also lean Kat among this group. Lamello's advanced.

stats are off the charts, but they kind of protected his minutes and he's pretty far behind in the minutes category. So that's all NBA. What do we got next? All rookie. This was fun and I flip-flop a bunch of times. What I did not flip-flop on was the big four are on first team, flag, canipal, edgecombe, Harper.

And I kept Maxine Rayno as my fifth first team guy. Bad team, tanky team. I get it. He played against starters. He started 56 games, 60% on twos. and when you watch them, it was functional real NBA basketball. Defensively, he's going to struggle.

That's fine. He's a rookie. All the rookie struggle on defense for the most part. Not Vijay Hedgecom, but a lot of them do. I just think he did a little bit more, in a little bit more minutes, almost 2000, than the guys on my second team, who are, without further ado,

Cedric Coward, who I think is a first team level player, but kind of didn't play enough after the first half of the season. Jeremiah Fears, some big scoring, games late in the season, big time silly season. But again, not inefficient. Guys got some zip, some vision. Derek Queen tapered off a little bit. He was first team halfway through the season.

He's second team now. Ace Bailey. And then my last spot, first I had Ryan Colk Brenner halfway through the season. Then two weeks ago, a week ago, I had Will Riley. A week ago, I had Will Riley. A week ago, I had Will Riley. And in the end, I'm going with Colin Murray Boyles. I just look, this is the 10th spot on second team all rookie. He's behind both of those other guys, Calc Burner and Riley, in minutes. And I just don't really care. For the 10th spot,

I'm going to go with the guy who is impacting winning on a real team. And since he came back from his thumb injury, particularly the last 10 games of the season, that guy has been a freaking force on both ends of the floor. He makes winning plays all game long, tipped out rebounds, offensive putbacks, good extra passes. I'd like to see him shoot more.

He like has a little bit of layup phobia sometimes that I think. is probably linked to his thumb injury. He's an ace defender. He's just more of an impact player for a good team right now than Will O'Reilly, who put up awesome numbers, did clean up in garbage time in some games. And we all know Wizards games have a lot of garbage time. And Colk Brenner is a rock solid choice. He protects the rim really well, and he finishes around the room really well.

I'm just going with CMB. And all defense, last but not least, first team, Wembechette, Assar Thompson, bam out of bio, and Scotty Barnes. I flipped him on the first team. second team O'GNanobie, Kaysen Wallace, Rudy Gobert, Derek White, and Dyson Daniels, who I don't think has got enough credit for a really good season on both ends of the ball, other than his three-point shooting. A lot of other candidates, but those are my final awards picks.

Apologies to Bill Simmons and the Bill Simmons taxi Uber service. I might get fired, who knows. Doc out in Milwaukee, not a shocker. See what happens. Janice with yet more ambiguous comments on Trashbag Day saying he doesn't control. He's not totally in control of his future. True to a degree. The bucks have to actually offer an extension.

And if they do and you sign it, you do see some level of control over your future. They can now, after a certain amount of time, trade you against your wishes to anywhere you want to go. But just stop with the like, it's not in my control. I don't know what they're doing. Now, for the playing time thing, that's their decision. I think it was a fair decision, but that is their decision. That was not in his control. He's right about that.

The general, like, my future in Milwaukee is not up to me. Yeah, it is. Like, you hold a lot of the cards. You're going into an extension eligible summer. You will signal to them whether you're likely or unlikely to sign it at some point. And when you do that, you will determine their course of action. James Barago, I think he did a really good job in New Orleans. I hope they actually give them a fair shake.

I hope this isn't one of those things where they have. the candidates already secretly in mind, but we're going to give you a token interview. He committed full board to that team. They got much more competitive when he took over for Willie Green. He deserves a real shot at it. He did. If he doesn't get this job, James Briego deserves another shot somewhere in the NBA. And the Kings are keeping Doug Christie as their head coach.

Who, you would have thought that the intentional foul on Seth Curry in the bonus, in a close game, would have been maybe the last straw. No. In fact, we're going to proactively come out and leak to our favorite reporters. Sources say we're keeping Doug Christie. I mean, okay, I guess it doesn't matter who coaches the Kings next year.

I guess it's just they don't care. I have not seen or heard of anything on the court from around the team that would suggest that the Kings, if they wanted to, could not find a better coach for next season Dead Doug Creas. Now you can say

Kings were competitive to the end of the year and they were. Finish like whatever nine and ten in their last 19 games, whatever BS record they got. Congratulations,

they beat a bunch of tankers. Levine missed the whole end of the season. Domas missed most of the season. Kegan Murray missed a lot of this. I mean, we can go on and on. It was a lost year. He finally,

Doug Christie finally remembered that Devin Carter and Nick Clifford were like on the team and our first round picks and maybe we should try to play them Warren played Rayneau quite a lot as well. Like Neat Clifford, by the way, he's got a little herky jerky to his game. I think he's going to be decent.

And next year, yeah, you get all the guys healthy, you get a top whatever pick. You know, you might be rare on to go. The only way that, the only way this makes sense is there are only two ways this makes sense. Number one, Vivek loves Doug Christie. Check. Vivek love, if you played for the Kings in the early 2000s, you're in forever. And if you ever go out, like Vladivat, you can always come.

back in. The Vec might be embarrassed to pay yet another coach to go away, probably check. And Scott Perry, the GM, gets to kick the, I fired my coach card down the line, another transaction cycle or two. Because once you do that once or twice, you're next up. So I'm shocked. I thought for sure they'd turned to another coach. They did not. But the Kangs are going to Kang. And that's it for my awards. I hate them, love them. I agonized over them. I looked at all the stats. I watched all the games. etc, et cetera. Those are my picks. Take them or leave them. And now on to the live show in Denver. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fandul. The NBA playing tournament is back and you can get

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slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Miculob Ultra. The playoffs are almost here. My favorite thing about the NBA playoffs, the intensity and the strategy. Every game is treated like a must-win game, even when a team is up 3-0. Every quarter, every half has a new adjustment that you got to really be dialed in to track. Oh, that guy's guarding that guy now. Why are they doing that?

How is the other team going to counter that? It's the chess match that we don't really see quite as much of in the regular season. It's dialed up from the opening tip of game one in the play. playoffs. Playoffs are just awesome in the NBA. You know what else is just as great? Opening up a new bottle of Mikhailob Ultra. It's refreshing, light with only 95 calories. Plus, as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, unique prizes, and more. Mickelope Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelope ultra.orgra.com slash courtside.

Miklob ultra courtside, 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on October 1st, 2025, and ends on June 30. 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at micklow upholter.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. What a big day for Denver Nuggets fans. They get the three seed and the hardest possible road to the finals. Their superstar player is probably going to come second in MVP voting. And the Zach Losho is in town for one night only with the one and only the MVP of the ringer.

The MVP of Grantland, Chris Ryan in the house. Denver, it's great to meet you. Joel does not know what he's missing. No, it's awesome to be here. Thanks, Zach. He will be anointed the official Joel Embedatologists. We will make him do that later. So Denver, by the way, awesome city.

Always love coming here. The weather is unbelievable. By way of intro, I had never been to Denver before the fall of 2017. and I came because Nicole Iokic was in his third season, the Nuggets had just signed Paul Millsap. Remember Paul Milsap? Total badass player and kind of a landmark signing for the Nuggets. Remember he like, he spurned other teams to come play

for the Denver Nuggets? That didn't happen. And I was like, I got to go meet this guy. I got to go see this up close because he was clearly special. I think he was only, Dioch was only 22 years old that year, and he averaged 18, 11, and 7. Last time he didn't make the All-Star team was 2017, 2018. And the Nuggets had such a weird 20 years, like 90s.

I mean, you guys are, how many, was anyone here alive and aware of the 1990s? So those people, those people other than DeKembe Mutumbo hugging a basketball, lived a very dark time. Like, Ray Fla Friends was heavily involved. Nicholas, I can never pronounce Skeeta's name. I think we just go Skita. Skita, like just a very dark time. And then Mello got drafted. How is, do we like Mello now?

And it was like, it was a good time. It was a good time. There are a lot of first round losses. Let's just be honest. There's 2009 when you guys are like two Trevor Areza steals away from making the NBA finals, sorry. Lakers, yeah. And then the Mello thing goes sideways, trade it to New York.

And you have this brief like, hey, this is a crazy fun team with George Carlin. Dinole Gowanari and Ty Lawson's running around and Kenneth Fried is like dunking stuff. And then Iguodala. We're going to get to Iguodala. We're going to get. We're going to get to Igwadala. If Andre were here, he would be like, that's not enough boost. I want more. I want more boost. And then there was like this, that period kind of ended with that warrior series that they

lose in the first round. Gallo got hurt right before that series. We'll never know how far that team. That was, we both loved that team. The George Carl Nuggets. I adore that. The Ray Felt and Ty Lawson team. Is that right then, right?

They're around that era, Fareed, Galauree, Javelle McGee. George Carl pioneered the strategy, or maybe Javele McGee did by accident, of standing out of bounds during the game. As a way of spacing the floor, Javelle McGee would literally stand out of bounds.

The NBA had to change the rules to clarify, you are actually not allowed Javele McGee to just stand in like the third row of the audience. And then it petered out, and then they get this, fat guy from Serbia in the second round during a Taco Bell commercial and as soon as they let him play as a rookie it was like whoa what it what is this guy and I had to come see him and I met him up close and we talked and I watched a bunch of games that year is the year they missed the playoffs on the last day of

the season but they remember they had to fight and win like seven of their last day just to get down to that game that proved like some toughness to me the next year they make the playoffs beat San Antonio in seven, loose to Portland in seven. Kind of unremarkable, right? Like that was not a great Portland team. It was not like a great showing. It was fine. And then the bubble comes and they're getting waxed in the bubble.

3-1, Utah, giving up a million points. And I remember thinking at that exact moment when they're down 3-1. I had like a column ready to go, like wrapping up the first round. And part of the column was like, maybe this just doesn't work. Maybe like the defense will never be good enough with Yokic and Murray and whatever else is surrounding them. And they storm back to win that series. They storm back to beat the Clippers.

And then they lose to the Lakers, whatever. We'll just sift that over here. And then there's a Jamal Murray injury and all that. But think about everything that's happened since then. A championship in 2023. Three MVP's for Nicole Iokic. Maybe he should have four? Maybe you should have four?

Give me one thing, you know? And now, and now all these years, like, is he ever going to play with another All-Star? Jamal Murray doesn't just make the All-Star team. He has an incredible year. He's going to make second-team All-NBA. And here we are, the Denver Nuggets are the third seed. And now this is where I have to allow you to take the floor. You are representing the entire city of Philadelphia, the 76ers organization.

Yeah. I know that you have prepared some remarks about Joelle Embedd. not been in Denver. I mean, I may have been in 2017. I don't know if he's been here since 2017. I believe the last time is 19, right? He hasn't been here in like six years. And he does well against Denver in Philly.

I would just like to say, I'm sorry. You know, we've been robbed of like a truly amazing big man rivalry. I can't explain it. Rivalry? Yeah, I mean, like, it could have been. We've been robbed of it. And I also think that, like, I'd like to reach out across the aisle here to you guys and just say, I hope you're happy.

You know, I didn't think that I would be adding to the list of Bell's Palsy and orbital fracture caused by Markell Fultz or tearing his meniscus up 3-1 against the wizards on a dunk that didn't need to happen, or disfiguring his finger. But now here we are with a nearly burst appendicitis appendix. I got to see the next episode of the pit to see how that works out. But yeah, we are in hell. This has been going on for years. Edgecombe is the only reason I watch basketball, Edgecombe and Maxie.

But I hope you guys are happy. I think you're going to kick ass in the playoffs. All right. Well, let's get to it then. We're going to have some fun. We got some guests coming after Chris. We're going to do a little around the NBA stuff now. Starting with the last day of the season, Spurs Nuggets.

I see a Spurs shirt right in the first. the front row. What are you doing here? What's happening? And I thought there's mutual interest between the Spurs and the Nuggets and having the Spurs win this game. The Nuggets go down to the four seed. They get an easier first-round opponent. The Spurs could have manipulated the bracket so that the Nuggets and the Thunder would have to play each other. And they kind of tried to win, except they didn't play their best player. The Nuggets played a bunch of backups. They win. They seem like totally okay with it. And that makes me stand. Like the Spurs, I don't know what they were thinking. They should have absolutely gone out to win that game. They have set themselves up for a really hard

road. And I think the Nuggets were like, you know what, we're going to have to beat the thunder and the Spurs in some order no matter what. Let's just have some fun and let's win. And I'm here to tell you, the basketball gods see that. There's no shenanigans. There's no shenanigans. There's no duck in any smoke. Minnesota, this is the third time in four years. been a tough matchup, who cares? We're going for Minnesota. If we have to go Minnesota, Spurs, Thunder, so be it. I like the attitude. The basketball God should reward it. And I just, I love that they did it. On behalf of everyone watching the NBA this season, thank you, Denver, for doing that. Because in a year of aspiration, Burner Gate, tanking discussions.

Johncy Billups. Of everything that happened this NBA season, the fact that we get two weeks of Nuggets Timberwolves and hopefully Nuggets Spurs is unbelievable. It could be absolutely unbelievable. And I just thought it was cool that they did it. And I was out to dinner with a couple of my friends from Denver, one of whom Scott is here as a lifelong Nuggets fan. We were out to dinner the other night. There you go.

We were out to dinner the other night. And one of his buddies, Aaron made a great point. He said, you know, you know what I'm tired? He wanted the Nuggets to get the third seed and have this route to the finals. because he said, you know what, I'm tired of hearing this shit about how the Nuggets had an easy road to the championship, how we were supposed to apologize for playing the Lakers, the heat, play-in teams and all this. All we can do is play the teams in front of us,

and this guy was like, you know what, give me the gauntlet. I want the gauntlet because if we win, no one can ever say anything about us again and it will be like a super championship, I love the whole attitude. Let's go, let's have all of it. Because you should, the one thing to quote, Brian Winhorse, you never apologize for a championship. You never apologize for how you get there. You need a lot of luck to get there.

The Nuggets Championship was awesome. No apologies necessary. I think it's the right move. I think you're right. The basketball guys are going to smile down on it. It would just be it would just be like kind of like amazing to get a bunch of 130, 1.28 games

like over the next couple of weeks and that's what this has a recipe to be. Yokic and Ann? Yeah. Yokich going at Gobert. Gobert maybe stumbling around a little bit. A little bit, yeah. Could be fun. Okay, we're going to go around the NBA.

We're going to go rapid fire. We're going to pick the play-in games. Because this is not just a nugget show. We've got to do everything. So we're going to pick the playing games. Orlando Philly. Philly. But for a very specific reason.

It's not hubris. It's because we deserve to lose to Boston. It's because I'm trapped in an episode of Black Mirror where every 18 months, people in green, baptize me in fire, and I cry. And I say, well, maybe next year if we can get a beat and PG healthy at the same time. But it's not going to happen.

But I have a feeling that the Sixers will beat the magic and then get smoked by Boston. Did you all see what Orlando did on the last day of the season? What a disaster. Baylor-Shimon's very good. You know who else is very good? It's Desmond Bain, who played six minutes. And then I think they forgot he was on the team. We're like, we actually might need you to beat the JV Celtics.

Could you come back? There were a lot of shenanigans yesterday because it was like, Bain played, McHale Burr just played for 18 seconds in order to get his like Iron Man thing. Iron Man. And then was Wembe wearing a headband but with street clothes yesterday on the bench? I was just like, you guys just play or don't play, but a lot of this like... My point is against all evidence to the contrary, I'm going to pick Orlando to actually get their shit together for one game on the road and beat the Sixers without Joel Embed, not a tall order. Charlotte Miami.

Charlotte. I believe, and it's also, again, we need this. We need Lamello and Con and Buddy, Brandon, in the playoffs. I'm a little worried about this matchup for Charlotte. I'm a little worried about it. Miami has a little something on them. Godda. Their one-on-one offense is like Charlotte doesn't have great one-on-one defenders. Miami just like the play-in infuses them with some annoying heat energy, hashtag heat culture. I'm picking Charlotte anyway. Charlotte's at home. They're better. All right, let's go to the conference of choice. the Western Conference. Clippers Warriors,

the most depressing possible matchup between these two franchises in the last 15 years. Do you even care who wins? I don't think the Warriors do either. I think Clippers win this one. I'm going to pick the Clippers. Because the Warriors could get into the lottery

if they lose this, right? It's in their best interest maybe not to go into the playoffs. You know who can't get into the lottery? The Los Angeles Clippers. Exactly. Because the Oklahoma City Thunder will gladly take that pick and everything else that they know. Yeah, that's right.

I'm sorry. Everybody hates the thunder. It's just a continued delight. Yeah. And then Portland Phoenix. I got Portland here. I also am picking the Blazers. I think the Blazers are kind of fun and kind of interesting.

This is going to be a rock fight. It'll be good for the playoffs if like a young Frisky Blazers team. So we agree on that. Okay. Before we get to the actual playoffs, Chris and I, this is your idea. We're going to play a fun game of Nuggets. We wish we could have seen play with Nicole Yokic. This is his idea.

I made a list. You made a list. Would you like to go? Yeah. So I have slotted in. It's kind of cheating, but I put him on the 10-11 team. And I have him moving in to the five instead of Kufos and Moskov. So he winds up playing with Melvin Eli, Kenyon, Martin, Aaron Aflolo, J.R. Gallo, Al Harrington.

Wilson Chandler. You're just slotting him straight onto that team. Like, let's just move, go back in time, time machine. Okay. I have, I have, there's a surprising amount of, like, old Nuggets who could have been their versions of Aaron Gordon to Nicole Yolich. First of all, how awesome is Aaron Gordon? I honestly think, I honestly think Mr. Nugget is one of, like, the five best basketball

stories of the last 10 years. Wayward Soul in Orlando, trying to be like, LeBron. Ron and Paul George, and the Nuggets are like, I can see what you're going to be, and you're going to love it, and you're going to thrive, and you're going to make more money and be more famous, just doing the Aaron Gordon stuff, and he comes here, and he accepts his destiny. They immediately become a juggernaut. I think the Nuggets probably have one more title if Jamal Murray and Michael Porter,

Jr. are not injured in those two years, 21 and 22. But I just love Aaron Gordon so much. But Kenyon Martin would have been a great Aaron Gordon. Marcus Camby could have been a good Aaron Gordon. Antonio McDyce could have been a good Aaron Gordon. What am I, this is an old time, you want. I always love Lafonzo Ellis. Lafonzo Ellis is one of my.

Ty Lawson running fast breaks with Nicole Yolkich would have been amazing. You want to pick a couple? I would love to have seen Yokic drop off an alleyup to Birdman every once in a while. Birdman! Birdman on that over. 0-809 housing crisis team with, was that Chauncey? Yeah, yeah. That was just incredible.

Like, so yeah, Birdman running the baseline. That was been crisis team. Maybe not a popular pick. Maybe Carmelo Anthony. We could have had Team USA, Carmelo Anthony, before Team USA, Carmelo Anthony on Team USA. That's what it would have been, playing with Yokic, super high IQ, could shoot.

Everything would have been perfect. I would like to have seen Joker play with double agent Andre Aguadala smart basketball player I think would have been really effective So he Chris just unknowingly stole my thunder My number one pass nugget that I would wish to see to play with Nicole Yokic

is Andre Aguadala Do we still consider him a double agent, a traitor? Is that a thing that? Andre, Andre is... Andre actually could rival Yokic for basketball genius. And to see the two of them together would have been... Stop it! Get over it!

You guys won a title? It's been 10 years since then. Andre's a genius. Yokic is a genius. They would have been doing stuff on the floor that the other teams would have been. Like, I don't even know what's happening right now. I think that, like, it's good to have villains on your team,

but you got to let it go. You guys want to ring. I mean, it's just like... Yeah. Never. Who did you guys? What was that? That was all part of the Dwight Howard trade, right?

Aaron O'Falo. That's right. Also a very good player. Okay. The playoffs are here. Now it's time. Real season is here. We have four first round series that are set,

and we rank them all in entertainment value. Yeah. I'm going to do my list, and we'll compare. As the least entertaining first round series, I have Rockets, Lakers. An unlikely choice, but given the fact that Luca is injured and Reeves is injured and the Rockets are not... The Rockets are like the anti-nuggets.

The Nuggets are super fun to watch. Like, I love waking up and watching a Nuggets game. The Rockets are like, God, this is... The basketball is bad and they hate each other. Can you just... It's just not cool. Well, look, I mean, the... Anytime you have a...

It's not even a burner scandal. It's like a text thread. It's fully like a leaked text message thread, yeah. It's not great for Team Kekers. when someone allegedly was like, so-and-so sucks, so-and-so can't shoot, so-and-so is effing. And like three of those guys follow him around, like, you're my mentor, right? And he's just like, sure, protege. Just one second.

Third on my entertaining list, so second, least entertaining. I don't think NBA TV is doing any first-round series, but that was always the saddest thing, is when your team got like the unofficial NBA TV, no one cares about your playoff series, like, oh, the Hawks and whoever. So welcome to NBA TV, Cleveland Cavaliers and Toronto Raptors. Despite the fact that if Cleveland actually lost this series and James Harden Crapped the bed in Cleveland losing a series, it would be massively entertaining on a lot of levels

and have huge ramifications for the cabs. But I cannot say I'm excited to watch that series. There's a, just speaking of NBA TV, there's like a whole genre of YouTube, which is these like NBA TV highlights of like anything you want to see over the last 20 years, all scored by music that would make IKEA music sound like the strokes. And it's a guy being like, Joel M.B. goes up for a dunk. That is going to leave a mark.

And it's like M.B. Torres knee muscle fully. It is the strangest bit of Internet ephemera is NBA TV highlight reels. RIP, MBA TV first round series. It was always the Hawks Graveyard. Like Hawks Pacers was just every year they're going to be on NBA TV. Second most entertaining first round series, I cannot wait for Knicks Hawks. I'm all in on Knicks Hawks. The Hawks are super weird.

I still don't really understand what's happening and how they became awesome, but they're completely random. They play a random style. And the Knicks, look, people ask me, like, who's your team? Who do you root for? I'll let you on a secret. I root for my own convenience. So the Knicks getting far in the playoffs as someone who lives just outside of New York

is good for me. Also, a Knicks disaster in the playoffs is very good for content. and this is like a very fraught, fraught year for the Knicks. There's a cat, there's like a cat existential crisis. It's been going on for years. Every 10 days like clockwork, there's like a cat. Is this working? Why is this not working?

Why does he not seem to have any control over his extremities? Why is he falling all the time? What's happening? Is McHale Bridge is ever going to get 10 points in the game again? There's just a lot going on. I do think if you're like blind taste test, like the Hawks are playing better than the Knicks right now. but I really, for your sake, want the Knicks to make it to the second round.

I don't even care. I'm here for the entertainment. And then the number one, most anticipated, most entertaining first round series. The Denver Nuggets seated third. Denver, Minnesota, Roman numeral three, the rubber match, the third time they played in the last four years. And to help us break it down, you guys all know him, you should follow him. From DNVR Sports, Adam Marez is in the house. There he is.

Hey, so who's the MVP this year? Man, don't start with me. It's Yokic. It is now? It's Yokic now? I changed my mind in the last 30 minutes. Okay. Denver, Minnesota, 2023,

4-1 Nuggets. They called it the toughest series they played the entire championship run. Mildly insulting to the other three teams they came after them was the first round series. I think that was intentional, by the way. What do you mean? I think there was an enjoyment for saying

Laker Series wasn't that tough, Sun's series wasn't that tough. The reverse asterix. It's like, oh, you say we had an easy round? No, they did. The Lakers series, that's the Golden Broome, right? Like the most competitive sweep of all time. Congratulations to the Lakers.

If I remember correctly, that was a sweep. Yep. Yeah, great job, great. But they were close games. That's the one where Yokic makes the crazy jump shot in Anthony Davis's face at the end of game four, right? He had two of them. So he had three or actually three or four of them,

but in game one, he had two of them. One at the end of the third quarter, as you might recall. and then he had another one in the fourth quarter. I remember the fourth quarter. And then in game four was the one that kind of ended the series. It was close game, like a minute left, and he's on the left side over the head like that from about 40 feet. Absolutely insane.

One of the guys, Yokic, one of like the 900th reason I love him is he would always take heaves at the end of quarters, didn't care about his field goal percentage. He's like, no, there's a 1% chance they're going to make this. I'm going to take it. And all now the cowards have been awarded by the fact that their shots don't count now. Cowards. I think he just enjoyed doing it though. Did you ever see the one where he had him throw it high because there was like half a second and he couldn't grab it so he winded and like to swipe it. From 90 feet he just did that. And he came close.

Four one nuggets. They go on to win the title. I always thought that series was kind of a turning point for Kat. Actually he like stabilized in that series. The wolves would remind you no Jada McDaniels, no Nas read if I'm remembering correctly. The next year, epic seven game series. ends in Denver. The Nuggets exhausted, worn down from defending the title. Still no one has repeated since the Warriors blow a 20-point lead at home in game seven. After Yokic in game five of that series in Minnesota, no, was that in Denver? Which one? One of those five or six, Yokich has one of

the greatest games I've ever seen. Game five was an all-time Yonkish game, yeah. It's like an unbelievable, and they lose that game. And now here we are two years later. The wolves think they have a little something on the nuggets. It hasn't carried over this year. It's 3-1 nuggets for whatever that's worth. This is going to be an awesome series. The star powers off the charts. These are two

teams who I think could plausibly actually get to the finals. The West is loaded. The top two teams are incredible. I think Minnesota has that kind of upside. And look, Denver, everyone is nitpicking your defense. I think you're 21st in defense. I'm just here to tell you.

Aaron Gordon is a monster. Peyton Watson, I think they need in this series. We'll see if he gets healthy. He's guarded ant a lot in the prior matchups. And if they ever get their defense a little bit in order, this offense is so absolutely ridiculous. It's like so easy for them to score. I've set on my pod a bunch of times.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Like it's boring for them to get easy shots. Their offense is that good. All right, so give me, what are we, how are you feeling about the series? So I'm feeling great, and the way you're setting the table here, yeah, I'm feeling great. I'm actually pretty, I'm only nervous about how confident I am in this first race series. That's always the weirdest place to be.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like I want to extend it just to not feel, you know, too excited. But I think the defensive part is obviously huge. Aaron Gordon played 36 games this year. It feels like he played 50, 55 or something like that. 36? 36 games this year. So fewer than half.

And the way you set the stage was that. you'll make it sound like a continuation from 2023 to 24 to 26. Well, just let me have it cinematically, please. Which I love from a narrative standpoint, but I'm stepping in to say that I actually think both teams are meaningfully different. Just as I think both teams were meaningfully different in 24 than they were in 23, they're different again this year. And the biggest difference to me, one, is that Jamal Murray is having an all-time, all-NBA

season. I mean, if he's not one of the all-MBA teams, and actually, I think, I did the list. I think he's second team all NBA. I don't have a ballot, but I have him second team all NBA. And on this podcast, you will hear tomorrow, I have like a 20-minute awards thing before. I shout from the rooftops that Jamal Murray has to be second-team all-N-B-A.

I love it, actually. Jamal Murray averaged 18 points per game in 2024 against the Minnesota Timberwolves. 18. He had one game over 24 points per, 24 points. It was the game 7, 35. I think he had 33 in the first half. That series, part of the game. part of why he got slowed down.

One, he was coming off of an injury. It didn't really get in playoff shape heading into that playoffs. But two, Nikol Alexander Walker is one of the single best players in the NBA, in my opinion, at evading the screen. And everything with Denver is the two-man game. It begins with a ball screen. And he was so good at getting away from it that Jamal Murray just could not get free. And the two-man game became a one-man game. They have great defenders.

You know, Deven-Cenzo. They've got Dissuomu, who might be interesting. but they don't have a guy that I think Jamal cannot shake free of and he's better than ever especially at getting free from defenders so I think it's a huge difference between 24 and 26 Well they'll try Jaden on him Jada McDaniels

former nugget Jada McDaniels how would you grade that out for Jamal Murray it requires an important resource for Minnesota to put him on Jamal Murray and some of this is you're taking some rim protection and athleticism away from the basket and putting on a sole job and the two-man game is versatile enough that you can always take advantage of that.

It's not we just have to run pick and roll. You can say, okay, let's take him out of the equation and attack elsewhere. So I don't think that's a viable strategy for like four quarters for Minnesota. It might be something that they go to a little bit here and there. But they had him in 24. That was an option to him, and it worked in parts.

They still have that option. They just have one fewer option in Nikila Alexander Walker. Who's been unbelievable. In Atlanta, yeah. He's a superstar. Most improved player, for sure. I just think this is so interesting because Minnesota fancies itself an elite defensive team.

I think they're only eighth defensively, but they have Gobert, who's always in the defense player of the year conversation. I actually put him second team all defense this year. I thought he slipped a little bit. And now they have this immense challenge of like, this is the best offense in the NBA by a lot. It's not close.

They're one of the best offenses in the history of the NBA. By any measure, they're one of the 15, 16 best offensive teams ever, these Denver Nuggets. How do we slow them down? And I think it's so interesting, like, if you watch and none of you will be surprised, I spent today in my hotel room watching clips of Wolves Nuggets, because that's just how much of a loser I am. They're going to try so many different strategies against that two-man game.

Sometimes they'll just let Jamal Murray drive and be like, we're not leaving Yolkits at all. Like, you don't have the option to even pass this dude the ball because he's too good, and every floater he shoots just sits on the rim. Like the ball is made of molasses or something and drips. through. We're not even letting get, and then Jamal Murray goes to the rim, and all of a sudden, they're swarming him and making Christian Brown shoot or

Aaron Gordon shoot. I think the nuggets are equipped to counter that strategy in a lot of different ways. And what the wolves used to do, as you all probably remember, is not put Gobert on Yokic. They would put Gobert on Aaron Gordon and just say, roam around the rim and block shots. Cat, you're pretty damn big and bulky. You're going to guard Yokic. Kat's not here anymore. I don't think Randall can guard Yokic at all.

I definitely don't think Nass Re can guard Yokic. And so they've mostly stuck Gobert on him. And I think that just generally favors the nuggets. Just that it gives them a little bit more optionality. Nikoli Yokic figures people out. This is one of the most fun things about watching him and watching his arc. I don't know if there's a single player he has played or matched up against more in the NBA than Rudy Gober. I would bet that's the number one player he's got against.

Yeah. Just through Utah and now Minnesota. and then all the playoff series. I just think he has him figured out to the degree that it's not that Gobert doesn't make his life hard. It's just that Yolkich knows exactly what kind of hard shot he's going to be able to get off of him every time. So you are right that Gobert's biggest impact, in my opinion, in a series against Denver, is actually not on Yokic, but it's in the staggered minutes to try to put pressure on Denver's backup centers. And then as a roamer.

But Aaron Gordon, over the last two years, has made himself into, and not just a good, but a consistently elite three-point shooter. Like, it's absolutely unbelievable. I cannot imagine the Timberwolves making the decision to put Gobert on Aaron Gordon in 2026. If you go back, remember the Christmas game? Did Yokic have 50 in the Christmas game? It was something crazy.

I don't remember what the number. 56, right? 56 and 14 and 11 or 11 or a lot of it. 18 and I undersold it. You can't even make up Yokic stat lines. In that game, if you go back and watch that game, at the end of the game and in overtime, the wolves did something weird, which is they were like, we're going to put Jaded McDaniels.

Yokic and put Gobert somewhere else so he can block shots. And we're just gonna have Jada McDaniels fight for his fucking life against this guy and elbow him and get up into his body and front him and like you have remarked about this a lot. More and more and more teams are doing this with Yokkich. It's just putting smaller guys on him and basically being like, just beat the hell out of him and see what the reps will do and we'll keep our shop locker back there. I just don't think, I think Yokic figures that out in it.

Remember the Rui Hachamura adjustment? The Rui adjustment. Whoa, the Lakers really found something. Rui Hachemura and Yokic. I wonder if Yokic will ever be able to figure that one out. Can I put you on the spot and ask you to basically switch sides of the courtroom, make the case for Minnesota in this series? I think the case is largely, you know, I always say that to win a championship,

a team has to check three boxes. One of them is talent. You just have to be talented enough. Another one is you have to become connected. Basketball is a game of connection. Denver is really good at this. And when they get to the playoffs and they make runs, they're just playing like a hive mind team.

But the third box, and you can sink if you're deficient in this category, in my opinion, is toughness, just raw toughness. And I think Denver, even in 2024, was more talented and probably as or more connected than Minnesota. But they were so tough. Yeah. They were physical with Jamal. They knew they could wear him down.

They were physical with Yokic and knew that it could just disrupt him and make him frustrated, and we're just going to muck up the game. And I thought Denver wasn't able to handle that. I mean, they were close. It went to Game 7, they had a lead. But that's why they won. They out tough Denver. I don't think, I think Denver has grown from that experience.

And I just think that gap is smaller. It might be that Denver's up for the challenge from a toughness standpoint, but I don't think Jamal in this state can be physically bullied the way that they tried to bully them in that series. And then you add the depth, I think part of this also. If you remember in that game 7 in 2024, Denver didn't sub out. They played their guys through the last like 18 minutes. just thinking, hold on, just try to get this, and it wore him down.

And part of the reason was they didn't have the depth that they have this year. I think the case for Minnesota is just, if Anthony Edwards is neck and neck with Yokic is the best player in the series, Minnesota will be a problem. Anthony Edwards has been dealing with some knee stuff. He's been ill. But you know that he's going to test their pick and roll coverage, right? Like Yokich will blitz him sometimes, and they'll test Minnesota. Like, can you pass the ball around?

He'll, I mean, he'll hunt some smaller guards on Denver, which we might have someone to ask about that and try to get mismatches that way. And Denver, it's been the weirdest thing with Denver. Their first 20 games this year, I couldn't believe how good they were defensively. And they were good in zone. They were good in man. They were good at different kinds of man coverage. Like they walked into the season. Like the playoffs can start right now. We're ready. And then I think the injuries, malaise, whatever, they kind of let go on the rope on defense a little bit. If that defense is still in there somewhere, this is a 60 plus win team. And they can absolutely go through Minnesota, San Antonio,

and Oklahoma City. Like, they are that good offensively that now they'll have to do it in the last two rounds if they beat Minnesota without home court. Fine. Toughness, right? Like, this is a tough experienced team. But if that defense is still in here somewhere, like, I bet that would have netted out

as, like, they're 11th or 12th in the league defensively, right? If they had kept playing with that level of focus and intensity, 11th on defense and first by a lot in offense, you can win the championship for sure. I think this is an interesting point in this one way. I think the reason Denver is not good, and this Yokic era in the regular season defensively is that it takes an enormous amount of energy to defend in today's NBA, and Nikol Yokic is not athletic enough and doesn't have the energy

reserves given his offensive responsibility to play at that level. But they've traditionally been very good defensively in the clutch, as if you say, okay, we know we have eight good minutes of defense in us in the regular season, and in the playoffs, that number goes up. I still think that's going to happen this year. I think that Denver, will be able to defend. But in previous years, Denver just loves playing seven game series. They love to do it. Like, pencil them in for two a year.

I don't think teams are going to win championships in this era until something changes physically if you have multiple seven games series, especially back to back. This is the darkest timeline of the route of the bracket that they chose, right? You have to find a way, in my opinion, you have to find a way to get at least one or two series wrapped up in five games. Because if you're going six, seven, six, seven, every single time. six seven every single time sorry it's out it's out now by the way my daughter who's 11 was that uncool yeah you're well you're definitely uncool I'm uncool uh it's it's out now six seven's out

we've moved on thank god um but yes I don't think you know what you are you're cringe my daughter would say you are cringe dad you're being cringe I thought I slayed no and I tell my daughter I'm 48 years old and you're going to middle school next year it's only getting worse I'm leaning in more and more to the dad jokes and the whole thing. Anyway, we were talking about something. I just say you can't go seven or six games over and over again. Denver's going to have to get it done in five. I can't keep going.

I guess if I was the wolves, I would probably say nobody saw our best team this year, right? Including them, though. Yeah. And it's difficult just to say, you know what, we are? The team we were going to build. We might just not have that best team. The vibe there has gone like this so many times. like every four-game winning streak is like, wolves are back, this is the wolves,

and then something happens, and there's like a coach player thing or a player, it's just, and if that happens enough, it's like maybe it's just not going to happen this year, and then you throw in some health issues that they've had recently, it's starting to feel like maybe it's just not going to happen, and they're sixth, and they're have a brutal route. The only reason I really want the wolves to advance, not only past Denver, but San Antonio, is I want to see Chris Finch versus Shea in the Western Conference files. Chris Finn, has Adelman had an OKC moment yet this year?

I don't think he has. I'm trying to think if he's had a moment. You guys know what I'm talking about where a coach every two weeks will get... Like, Finch just like lost his mind. Yeah. I don't know if he's had one, like to that degree, where he just called it out. But he has had a couple meltdowns, I would say. Okay.

Do you want to make picks? Are you comfortable yet making a pick? Let's do it. I am going to pick Nuggets and Six. So Nuggets in Six. Just real quick. Why? Like, it's...

You think the office? is not going to be slowed down. I just said what I said about Minnesota, right? Like it's sometimes it's like it's not going to all click together. The aunt in and out of the lineup stuff makes me nervous. And I just think this offense is unstoppable if, like, Aaron Gordon has to play and play well. And as you pointed out, he's an unbelievable three-point shooter now. Cam Johnson's last six weeks have been incredibly encouraging. And between him and Tim Hardaway Jr. and Bruce Brown has shot at well from three. I think they just have enough tools to put out the right. kind of line. So the one thing I was going to ask you about, though, is like, what, if

anything, do we know about Peyton Watson? Because he's a really important part of their team. He's become a good corner three-point shooter, which is massive for them. He's guarded a lot. And I can tell you, like, the Nuggets people I know are being a little non-communicative about Peyton Watson's potential for playing in this series. It's been the same. I've heard the same. And I think my read on it is that I'm not sure they know for certain that he is going to be able to go or not. So we'll have to wait and see him and Spencer Jones both by. Spencer Jones a heck of a defender man he's a plays hard and wow that was a fantastic for spencer jones and if you look at the matchups anthony edwards is a big bodied guy you kind of need some some strength to battle him

uh julius randall spencer jones might draw that assignment as well so i think both of those guys are important let me answer your question though the pick with this anecdote when bruce brown was in denver in 2023 he talked about the la series i think he actually came on our show and talked about this. He said, I don't know why, but everybody was so locked in for that series. There was something going on. And of course, the guys that had been on the team remember the bubble, the 2020, and it felt like Denver let that one go. And I think Denver was dialed in for that Lakers series in a way that they were not for other series, because there was history, there was some bad blood, and they knew that there were a lot of stakes. Denver, I know that Game 7 from 2024 is still in their memory. And I think that this will be

a series that has Denver's attention. I'm actually glad in many ways that they drew this route and drew Minnesota first because although it might be tough, I think we'll get the best version of Denver in a round one that we've gotten recently and so I'm going to go with Nuggets in five.

Five! Denver and six. Wolves in four? I'm not that crazy, no. I want to get out of here tonight. Okay. We're going to do three fun Denver topics, two of which are your idea,

one of which is my idea. I was on Bill's pod last night and I talked about Yokic and how Yokic is a three-time MVP and if you look at all the players who have won three or more MVPs, the only one with one or fewer rings is Moses Malone, who has won. And what would it mean for Yokic in his legacy, everyone's favorite word, to go through this gauntlet and get a second ring on top of three MVPs,

a second finals MVP? Because here's the thing. Like, Yokic is already in the argument for best offensive player of all time, period. Like, that's how good he is. I actually saw Dune, I know what that's from. And I think like this is going to sound heretical for somebody my age. I think at the end of his career, if not already, he's going to be statistically and just like I test better than Larry Bird, better than Magic Johnson, but fans and the pundits who yell

on TV will just not be able to get there if he has won championship. And I said that, and a couple of front office people from other teams who really like Yokic, and our Eastern Conference team so they don't have to face them very often, texted me and said, I get what you're saying, but Jerry West had one ring, KG had one ring, Dirk had one ring. I think Yokch is already a tier above all of those guys, but his point was like one ring in Denver, in a mid-market, like it's not a glamour market team that steals free agents and is, is, is worth

you know what I mean it's not the Lakers you're not we know what you mean you're not clearing three max caps slots and getting LeBron and Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh that's not how it works is worth is

you got a lovely city just chill out is worth more than like a Lakers ring or whatever I thought that's interesting and I do I really do believe

2021 is the Bucks 2022 is the Warriors I think one of those rings belongs to either the nuggets or the clippers if they're healthy. But we are where we are and I do think like, Yokic should be in those conversations probably already

and it's just like, you know the talk shows are just not going to accept that if he has won championship, I don't think. Don't you think also like his legacy, quote unquote, should have all the more weight given his trajectory to the league? I mean, you broke it down coming out here about this second round pick who was kind of like this anomaly

when we first came into the league and then you essentially build an offensive, like an entire NBA ecosystem around his skill level. I mean, his achievement here in some ways is singular in a way that a lot of like lottery guys who are always nailed on from high school, we're always going to be all NBA talents. Like to me, it's like almost more impressive

that he even has one ring. It's certainly part of the storytelling, I think, about him. You know, I think he's probably a top three or four most influential player of the last 25 years. I think Steph Curry is probably number one, James Hardens up there, but when you look at, to your point, he's reinvented the way we think about basketball. Andre Drummond was doing dribble handoffs, you know, in the years after.

Like, he changed the way of what you thought was possible. To answer your question, though, about his legacy, I do think you have to win, and I actually think it's fair to say that you have to win. And it is different to your point in Los Angeles or, you know, one of these markets than it is in Denver. It's harder to go here. But I still think that at the end of the day, there's great players that have these great skills and the entire point of the sport is can you be great in the right moments and nicola is great

all the time i mean he really is you can count his bad games on your you know on your fingers especially playoff games you really he plays all the time when he's healthy he got injured and everyone's like i don't even know what this is like nicoly okish is injured how did this happen he's indestructible and he plays well and hard i think he's one of the best passers of all time you know one of the best passers he might be no he might he might he might be the best passer of all time and what's funny is I think he's probably more dominant as a floater zone shooter than he has as a passer. I think he's by far the best

floater zone shooter of all time. It's not statistically even close. I don't understand. Are they doctoring the ball here? But it travels on the road too. It just hits the rim and it sits up there like, oh, this is cool. Now I'm going to fall right then. I mean, it's unbelievable. And then he gets off of his feet as fast as he tips the ball into a

rebound as well. He has like four or five skills that he's probably top three or four all time in the NBA at. But still, it comes down to what you do in the few moments where you're the only thing that matters. It's a team game. And in the playoffs, there's just these high leverage moments where you have to deliver. And he consistently has, I believe the team is good enough to put him in position to deliver those moments for us, this playoffs.

And I do think you have to win a couple more for him to get there. And I hope and believe he will. It's also amazing that, I mean, Joker has never held the team hostage and be like, well, if things don't change around here, I'm going to have to go look elsewhere for stuff. It's like that is also what a lot of the players that were... And while people were screaming, like, is he ever going to play with an All-Stars? Is it ever going to happen?

The Denver, like, the Nuggets failed to build around him. Calvin Booth took all these kids who aren't ready. Well, now the kids are ready. Like, the kids are playing well. And Michael Malone, ironically, coaching kids now. Congrats to Michael Malone. You guys might have heard it did not end well here. But I told Michael this, like, you won a championship.

No one can ever take that away from you're a championship NBA coach like no matter what people think of whatever it is like you want a title The Spurs the nuzz the Nuggets are what three and one against the spurs this year? The wolves? The wolves or the spurs yes three in one one three in a row I'm just saying to wrap to put a bow on this They can actually do it they could beat these three teams in a row They almost beat the thunder last year with Michael Porter now it's last year's thunder first first time through nerves and experience all that but Michael Porter had one arm and Aaron Gordon had one leg and it went to seven games. Like they actually

can do it. The playoffs haven't even started yet. I'm just saying the path is there and the historical impact would be huge. This was your idea. Team of the decade for the 2020s is still in play. And you pointed out 80s is Lakers Celtics, sorry Bill, second place.

90s is Bowls. 2000s is between the Lakers and the Spurs. I think it's still Lakers. I think it's the Lakers are like, two teams. The Lakers won four. The Lakers won four titles. Yeah.

Spurs won three. Yeah. All right, we'll just call it a tie. Okay. It's a tie. 2010, you could argue for... All sports arguments. That's just a tie.

2010s, you could debate Miami with LeBron or gold. I think it's Golden State. I think it's Golden State. I think it's Golden State for the way Curry revolutionized the game and just how 73 wins a little they didn't win. And then the Durant team that was unfair and unbeatable. 2020s, here's what we got. Oklahoma City has one championship and only, only one other playoff series win so far in the 2020s.

Now that is about to change. I think right now the frontrunner is the Celtics. Let me just, can I just make the case? One ring, one finals loss, two conference finals losses. See, there's that mid- there's that mid-vis. It's old school basketball, you know. We don't have any of this altitude with the rings. Wait until the Chicago Bulls finally rebuild, and then the East will be back.

Golden State, one championship, if only won two other series, no. Denver, one championship, one conference finals loss, three second round losses. Milwaukee, one championship, two second round losses. That's over. and the Lakers, one championship, one conference finals loss. I think right now, Boston, Denver, and Oklahoma City are both one championship away from taking the team of the decade lead. What would you say to that?

And I think San Antonio is maybe chasing this late. They look like a team that could be very good. Let's have this conversation in five years. Yeah, they got a long way to go. We got a couple more years, but they do have a lot of ground to make up. I think Oklahoma City is the favorite at this moment. You would just look at it and say they have the momentum. And I think Boston, because then the crowd is right.

I'm sorry, but they have the, Eastern Conference is a little bit simpler. They have a path there. They have an inside track. But this year is an opportunity for Denver. I don't know how many opportunities they get. This is, by my count, the third real championship opportunity Denver has had.

I think last year was probably not, it was like a half open door for them. So 23, 24, and this? And this. And if you're able to get this one, then I just think this one might be the one that swings it. Boston, Oklahoma City, and Denver all have a real shot at it. And if you take this one, I think you have a great shot

at Team of the Decade. Which is pretty cool. Philly, you know, Edgecom's really good. The Eastern Conference is not very good. Embed could get healthy. I think Nick Nurse is petitioning the league to see if we can play VJ 51 minutes a game next year, so we're excited about that.

Well, I mean, speaking of conference biases, your team is about to play in the first round is like the most excited about expansion because they have a chance to move to the East and you better believe. I think they should have to play Memphis in a seven-game series. To decide.

Winner moves to the Eastern Conference. All right. Last Adam idea. By the way, I would say OKC for this decade, not only for the title and the other like achievement in playoffs, but the profound impact that they've had in the league, both in terms of... Everyone hating them? Team building philosophy. I love, like I definitely do not enjoy it. And also just the Shea trade, I think might wind up being the most consequential deal.

It's fair. I did not consider front office acumen in my hastily rendered rankings. Okay, this is Adam's idea, and I don't know well enough to know, so I'm going to defer to you. Oh, no. This is pressure? You posited, is Yokic already the greatest athlete in the history of Colorado professional sports? And you nominated, you nominated. Well, I just, this was a text message.

This is the whole nomination here. You can't back out of this. Well, all right, all right. Let's work through this. Here are the names you nominated. Joe Sackick, Patrick Waw, so two hockey players. The abs are really good again, right? The abs are indeed very good.

And the biggest one, John Elway. Yeah. Man, that is such a subtle John Elway cheer. I expected a lot more from John Lowe there. These people are too young. They don't know what happens. Is it true? You know, it might be true.

So here's my point of view. There are no Rockies on this list? There are no Rockies. Andre Scalaraga Yeah, the cat. Dante Bichette. I think if we're having this conversation, it's a little different. This is a different conversation.

I don't want to talk about baseball. The Mets are 7 and 9. They're playing the Dodgers in Los Angeles for the next three games. It's all going horribly. Yeah, I know. The 7 and 9. Thanks for coming out.

Here's been Mets Corner. Thanks to New Era for sponsors. Yeah, here comes Sean Fennancy for 45 minutes on Mets Corner. Here's the thing. John Elway, it's hard to, to, like, overtake him for what he means to the city, because he was both, like, the first huge athlete to this degree. And he came around at the exact, you know, most important time. I always say New Denver changed from Old Denver in 1995 because you had Coorsfield arrived. So the new ballpark changed the entire city.

You had the avalanche arrive. and then the Broncos became a juggernaut that next year and then won two Super Bowls in 96-97. So that, it was that he was the first, he was huge, and he came around at the exact moment when Denver was becoming, was graduating into a major American city. And so he kind of has this like, you know, he's the first guy, he's a legend. But if I think if you just put these things in a vacuum,

Nikoliyokic is unbelievably dominant at basketball, unbelievably dominant. I mean, rebounds and assists leader, this year is like it's kind of laughable. But the truth is he's, he's the best at like eight or nine different skills in the NBA. And just having him on the court, you feel like you're gonna win any single possession or any single moment.

The championships do matter here because some of the guys you listed have multiple. But I think if we're just talking about the most dominant athlete I've ever seen with my eyes, and this by the way includes non-Denver athletes, but the most dominant athlete, I watched it. I grew up to Elway. I felt like we were never gonna lose when we had him.

The Yohic experience, is different. I just feel like he can do anything. There's never a moment where I feel like he can't wiggle out of whatever defensive coverage you put him in. He is a near perfect basketball player, offensive basketball player. And to me, I think it is, I think it is him. I think he's the goat of Denver. The thing that blows my mind about him every time is somebody who has had James Hardin on his team is the experience of never having to wonder, is he going to show up tonight? Like, that is crazy. And there's no stat for that. It's a rare. It's a rare. but you're just like, oh my God,

like this guy's just going to get 30 and 20 tonight. We know that. And it's like I've never really had anybody in my sports fandom like that. I just want to remind everybody that Chris's favorite NBA team took Markle Fultz and Ben Simmons with back-to-back number one overall picks on his desk. Hey, Ben Simmons has a lot of games for a minute. It's been a rough. There was a Twitter scandal, a shirt collar thing.

It had nothing to do with that. It's been a rough. Just give them some grace on all things. Trust. Keep trusting. We're still trusting. Keep trusting. This was all part of the plan to get back to the second round.

Look, as an outsider looking in, and we'll wrap this up now, to me, like, it's just no contest. Like, Yokic is, like, the best athlete in the history of Colorado professional sports. Like, I can't sit here and tell you, like, where does L.A. rank in the greatest quarterbacks of all time. I think I know enough to know it's not, like, where Yokic ranks in the greatest players of all time. and the hockey guys I just don't know anything about, but enough about. I know who they are, and I know what they did,

and Wa was unbelievable in particular. Can I ask, who did he replace as the iconic nugget? Yokic? You think it's mellow? So this is what's interesting about this, not really mellow because of the bad terms or something. It could be mellow if we just talk about great. What's interesting to me,

Alex English is the one that has all the records, games, plays, points, everything else. Yeah, give it up for Alex English. But when I talk to the old timers, When I talk to the old timers that were around, David Thompson is the guy they always, every old timer has a firsthand story of something David Thompson did at a game they were watching. So it might be him, but he's just so old that it's all like passed down through word of mouth. Shout out to the high school student in here somewhere who's wearing an Alex English jersey

because her dad, quote, makes me listen to your podcast on car rides to school. I said, let's try to reframe that one. Okay, let's try to reframe that one. I don't think it's close. Okay, well, let's bring out someone who can talk a little bit about, well, first of all, Adam, Adam, thank you, Adam Morris. Of course. Thanks.

You all know DNVR sports. You know where to find them. Nobody covers a team anywhere better than Adam covers the nuggets. This episode is brought to you by eBay. You guys know that watching basketball is my thing, obviously. But you know what else is? Collecting basketball memorabilia. And that's why you got to love eBay.

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But even dream jobs have the stuff that nobody dreamed about, the busy work that gets in the of the actual work. Service Now's AI specialists tackle that work. Request handled, cases closed, the whole thing done. So you have more time for the work you actually want to do. For me, that's breaking down SGA film whenever I want and then talking about it into a microphone. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. Let's bring out someone who has first-hand experience actually catching passes from Nicole Okich and making shots. Six-man-of-the-year candidate already beloved Denver Nugget, Tim Hardaway Jr.

How good is this guy been, by the way? Just no hesitation. They're going up. They're going up. So first year in Denver. Adam was telling me, apparently Aaron Gordon did an interview recently where he talked about his recruitment of you. Did you guys see this?

I did not see this. He described it as a phone call in which you asked him, how was Denver? He said, it's all right. And you were like, cool. I think I'll sign there. Is that really about what happened? Yeah.

Yeah, I said bet. All right, cool. Sounds good. What other options were you weighing? And did you know, like, did you have a relationship with a coach or a player on this team that you could also call on to be like, hey, what's it going to be like? What's my role going to be like? Who went deeper than I?

Yeah. I think for the most part, I mean, it has some options. But with the recruiting of Jared Duffalo, Dudley and J.J. Barrea, their assistant coaches on the staff. Just being familiar with them, I was with Duds when we went to the finals that year, I guess, Boston and Dallas. I was teammates with J.J. Berea when I first got to Dallas after getting traded from New York. I forgot about that. He played with them. Yeah, I traded with them. So I played with them over there. So, yeah, it kind of made my decision a little bit more easier. And then AG's.

conversation was nice and on the kid. Yeah, pretty simple. Yeah. How, 82 games later, how has it been different that you thought it would be better than you thought it would be? Like, is there anything that surprised you about this team, this city, anything like that? I mean, I thought it would be kind of colder. It's very shorts, yeah.

I mean, no, but all seriousness, I mean, it's everything I dreamt of, to be honest with you playing with a guy like Yoke, playing with a guy like Marlowe. I mean I go down the list and then the franchise bringing back Bruce which is which is great my running mate on the back on the back court and then you just got these young guys emerging like Payne Watson and you know Julian Strother having a game like he did yesterday showing that he's still here still capable of making plays and and Big Val well you can we can say about Big Val yeah Love that guy.

So, you know, just being in that second unit with those guys, we have great chemistry and like going on on. Has playing with Yokic been as fun as it looked, more fun than it looked? Oh, yeah. For the most part, because you get open looks. But, I mean, you get open looks, but you have to do your job once you get the ball. You know, if you make shots, it makes his job a lot easier. And that's why I try to prioritize.

to the best of my abilities while I'm out there on the floor with him. Have you caught any, like, touchdown pass outlets from him? I bet you have, right? Yeah, I have and threw a couple of lobs, which I'm surprised that I caught. But you're so wide open that you have no choice but to catch him. Have you had any passes where you were surprised that the ball was suddenly zipping towards your head?

Yeah, I get hit in the chin a couple of times. But I did shoot it, so that's all that matter. For the ups and downs that you guys, not even ups and downs, but for the season that you had, were you surprised that you ended as strongly as you did, or was it kind of like you want to be playing your best basketball at this time of year?

Yeah, I mean, I was surprised. I'm surprised that it happened to that many people on our team. Yeah. I mean, especially the basically whole starting five. So just to have the guys that we have that, like I said, the vets that came in this summer and then us working with the young guys that were already here that were established,

they understood what the coaches wanted from them. It was an easy transition. And for the most part, with that from December to that January, that stretch when no one was really playing or dressing out, yeah. I'm happy we kept the ship afloat. Were you surprised that you,

I think you were like 10 and 7 without Yokic or something? Just just Yokin. It was Christian was out. Aaron was out on. JV. I heard the first game. Just say everybody. Yeah, just say that. I heard actually four to six weeks became a running joke within the team. People were like, four to six weeks, four to six weeks. Were you surprised that you kept it afloat? Like? For the most part, I would say I wasn't really surprised, but I was surprised with the way we did it. with the different lineups, different change in starting lineups,

and with coach just being a genius that he is with his staff and making sure that we're in positions, you know, to win ball games. So it was nuts, especially that game in Philly when no one really played. Oh, he's a Sixers fan. Oh, sorry. It's all right. That was a close game, right? Was that a close game?

I don't remember that. I remember it happening, but it was like, it was literally like, that was one of the first times I've had to go on like basketball reference to be like, I don't know who this guy is. Like, and he's killing us. So I was at the Toronto game on December 31st or 30th. It was the first game without Yokic. That's when Val got hurt.

Val got hurt in the second court and everyone's like, are you fucking kidding me? Another guy got hurt and you guys found a way to, do you remember how that game ended? Yeah. Um, was I in front of, Brandon Ingram when he shot that turnaround? I should know that, but I know.

But Brandon Ingram made like a half-court shot almost. It was like a turnaround fadeaway like what Braun did in D.C. When he was playing with the calves in front of their bench. But he was like a, but B.I. was like a couple seconds later. It was like that. It looked good. And I was actually sitting. I mean, yeah.

I was sitting with some Raptors officials and they were like going insane because they thought it was good. Yeah. I thought it was good. And then it wasn't good. and that was, I mean, DA is a pretty even, David Adam is a pretty even-keled guy. He was really pumped after that game. And I could tell that he actually firmly believe,

I talked to him a little bit after that, that he firmly believed, like, we're actually going to be all right. Like, we're going to tough out some of these wins by taking care of the ball, rebounding, just like scraping out some wins, and he was right. Yeah, he was absolutely right.

And like I said, he's being a genius. I mean, just, like I said, putting guys in position to be successful. and us playing off of him, really, be honest, but he's just a mean guy sometimes. He just rubs off on us. He gets into us really bad and have time, so we got to go out there and show up for my guy.

He looks nice on the court, but... It's not. Well, he's the son of a coach. He's the son of a coach, so, you know, you got... Yeah. So take us inside. game 82. You guys all know the stakes. You guys know that if you lose, you can go down to the fourth seat. What does that bring with it? If we win, we're going to be the third seed. Minnesota,

there's a lot of history there. Did you guys like, and obviously a lot of the key players didn't play, but did you all, like, was there a, how does the decision get made that these guys are going to sit, but we also don't care if we win the game. Like, what is that conversation like? Oh, I mean, knowing DA, I mean, he wants to win every single game. And he said that, when guys sat out when we played OKC at home and he said that against the spurs in San Antonio.

So whoever steps out there on the floor, you know, they have to have the utmost confidence in themselves and in the team's success. So for the most part, just having those guys go out there and compete the way they did, it rubs off on the other guys that were watching

and we need to take that momentum into the postseason. And you legit, like, whoever we play, we play. Like, there's no toying with the game? No, not at all. I mean, you're here for a reason. You're here for a reason. So, and there is a system, I would say,

especially going out there playing with the big guy. Were you, historically, you kill Minnesota, like, even going back to college, right? Like, don't you, like, didn't you have, like, crazy games with Michigan there? Go blue. There we go. Yeah, I mean, it's just,

I'm very comfortable, I'll say. Just like you said, I went to school out there, not out there, but in the Big Ten, in the Midwest. So it's just a comfort level for me, you know, every time I go out there and play against either it could be Indiana, Minnesota, or, you know, any team out there. So just fun and exciting just to be able to play in front of Michigan fans. Speaking of Michigan, just won the national title. Yeah. Came this close in the Frozen Four, but it's okay. Congratulations, congratulations.

That was a good game. I watched that the other day at the bar, not the Michigan, the Denver, Wisconsin final, very exciting game. It was very exciting, yeah, yeah. Do you consider yourselves on the 2013 Michigan team, the true national champions? How does one reckon with Louisville having its title vacated? Listen, I mean, if Tray Bergen can call for the foul on that clean block,

I'm pretty sure that we would be national champions. Okay. I mean, but you don't claim it? No. Okay. That's fair. You didn't win. You didn't win the game.

No, you didn't win. Do you claim, so Tim, obviously, they played for Detroit last year. Yeah. Very exciting first round series with the Knicks. Oh, shit. I know what's about to be at. The pivotal game is game four in Detroit. Tim Hardaway takes a corner three.

I think you're down by one. I think you're down one. That damn rough, man. Josh Hart. I believe Josh Hart made some contact with you. Oh, he definitely did. No call. And all you got to do is make two out of three.

I trust you to make three out of three, but like, you know, let's get a little margin fairy. You're still going to win the game. Like, have you, first of all, have you talked to Josh about that? Has he admitted to you that was a foul? I haven't talked to Josh, yeah. But, I mean.

Have you talked to Josh at all since then? I mean, I talked to J.B., though. Brunton, I think so. But, uh, I mean, it wasn't called, man. But, I mean, it should have been, but it wasn't called. But that was definitely a pivotal game that could have swung the series. But, yeah.

Obviously, you've ended up in a great spot. Were you, were you, did you expect to be a piston this year when that season ended in the way you guys were going? Oh, I thought it was somewhat of like an unfinished business type situation. I'm not going to say here and lie about it. Like, we went there and, you know, helped turn that franchise back around and got them into the playoff picture. So just moving forward, you know, you're thinking as a player and as a competitor that you

want to go back and try to get things done the right way and get off to a better start. But, you know, hey, they're doing their thing over there. I'm happy for them. Yeah, you're not surprised by that, right, that they develop like this? No, not at all, especially with a coach like J.B., you know. He's a hard ass. Yes, he is. He's a hard ass on the refs, too.

Oh, very. How's D.A. with the refs? More polite? Nah. The reps have it hard, man. These coaches are in their ear all the time. Yeah, they do. Your guy, Nick Nurse is in there all the time.

All day. It's all game. It's relentless. Yeah. Have you guys already started, I assume you have prepping for Minnesota or was today an off day? Have you started watching film?

What's going on? I mean, today was, you know, the last game of the season was yesterday, so he wanted to give us time with our friends and family. So he gave us a day off. But, yeah, we get back to work tomorrow. Okay.

So we went through the history of the Nuggets and the Wolves. Mm-hmm. You also have played the Wolves in a recent playoff series with Dallas. Yeah. Do you think that is helpful for you? I mean, like a lot of the players are still there. Like, did you get, is that series still in your brain rattling around? Yeah, for the most part it is.

It was a, it was a weird, I would say, series in a way. I mean, they had, it could have gone. either way and you have a guy like Luca that goes down and makes big shot after big shot down the stretch over Gobert and you got Kyrie Irvin and the Anthony Edwards duo after and I think they beat they beat you guys that year and then he said after the game he had Kyrie or something like that and then it was like a duel between them too so it was it was just a weird series going into it but just being able to experience it and lock in and see the preparation uh yeah So you guys remember the Luca shot over Gobert, where Luca said, I mean, that's one of the

nastiest bits of trash talk you will ever see is Luca. It's like more like harass me. It wasn't even like trash talk. So I rewatched it. I was like, let me see where Tim is during that shot because I couldn't remember who's on the floor or not. And you were behind, you're like second, you're standing on a chair. I'm standing on the chair looking at the shot.

So I couldn't find you at first. Yeah. And then I saw you. You have your hands on Maxi Kleba's shoulders watching the. shot, the shot goes in and you're hopping around like a kid. Yeah. Like what is, and then Luca's going crazy, like what is the aftermath of a moment like that? Like that's game two, right? You go up to two oh, I think at that point in the series. Yeah, I believe so, yeah. What is like, do you even talk to him about that

shot or do you like, do you watch it on YouTube? Like, what's the aftermath of a moment like that? Uh, get ready for game three. That's it, really? Yeah, I mean, you, you're happy and excited, but you gotta get a defensive stop and you gotta get ready for game three, man. There's no more, no celebrating in between the series. I was always curious, like, when you're about to go into a playoff run, will you, like, watch the play-in games this week? Mm-hmm. I will.

Like, will you watch other series while you're kind of also getting prepped for whatever the next game you guys have? Yeah, it gets you motivated, it gets you exciting, and also gives you an idea of how the refs are going to call these games. Oh. So you'll see some reps let people get away with some things, and then there'll be some reps that will call the game really tight. So it's a good indicator of how they're going to be ref in these playoff games.

You were in the finals with that Mavs team against Boston. Did you learn anything from that? Was the finals starkly different than even the conference finals, like as an experience to live? Or was it just like it's just basketball? I mean, it was just basketball, but those lights were brighter. I would say that for the most part. It was fun to experience it.

I mean, especially, I mean, going into the garden, TD Garden and playing against those guys. I mean, and seeing all the banners up there, it was pretty insane for the most part. So, yeah. Who was your favorite team growing up? Whatever team your dad was on? Whatever team my dad was on. The Miami Heat, though, for sure. There you go.

That was a badass team. That was. They had a great squad. Dan Marley, Jamal Mashburn, Sean Leonard, Alonzo Morning, Ike Austin. PJ Brown. You know who remembers PJ Brown? Charlie Ward remembers PJ Brown for when he flipped his ass over at the playoffs. The whole New York Knicks.

I think Run TMC was my first, like, non-Sixers favorite team. You know, they're like playing with the Warriors, yeah. Yeah. NBA Jam, my team is Chris Mullen and Tim Ordeway. That's just bomb and threes. All day long. All day long. And I didn't remember your dad played for the Nuggets.

Yeah, he had a quick little stint here. Did you remember that, honestly? I mean, I remember because I was in Miami and I was watching the game when they were playing against the match and he threw the damn TV on the court. Fair. Well, look, man, you've had an awesome season.

Actually, one thing, have you... This is a little bit of an unfair question. I'm going to just say that in advance. Have you had the conversation with Bruce Brown about signing a one-year deal with the Nuggets, getting paid more money somewhere else and then having to find your way back to basketball Nirvana and Denver.

Have you guys talked about that? Because he took a wayward route back to Yokic. He took a 4-team route for sure. You might be staring at something similar. Not that you want to go there, but I just think it would be a funny conversation. Yeah, I mean, I've talked to them about that.

I mean, not only myself, but everybody. When they won the title, they were begging, Brucey B, Bruce B's got to stay, Bruce B is coming back, and Bruce B was like, Bree got the hell out. Bruce to me was like $24 million a year.

He's on money. I'm out. Look, that's for the time. That's a different time. Right now, the playoffs are going to start. You guys are playing Minnesota. You've had an unbelievable year. It's been super fun to watch.

Thank you. I want to thank you for coming out. Thanks, these fans are all so stoked to see you. I know it's busy, so thanks for coming out. And just good luck in the playoffs. Yeah, good luck in the playoffs. Thank you guys. Tim Hardaway, Jr.

He starts to play. In like, well, six days or something. So he's got some time. I like that he's going to watch for refs. That was insightful. Like, I don't watch for the refs, but I don't have to worry about the reps. Does anybody, is there a team that's like,

don't fuck Scott Foster? Is there one fan base who's like, By the Thunder or like, yeah, he's our guy. We have so many picks. We love Scott Foster. I would love, yeah, so much, I would love to see a sign in the stands. Like, Scott Foster,

I flew all the way from Taiwan for this game, Scott Foster. Sign this thing. Okay, we're going to wrap this up. Thank you to New Era for sponsoring the show. They're awesome. You guys all know. You are wearing a New Era hat currently, Oakland Days. Thank you to you guys for coming out.

It's like crazy to me that anyone cares what any of us have to say about a inning. You are spending your time listening to basketball, nonsense and Tim Hardaway Jr. who actually knows what the hell he's talking about. So I appreciate that. I appreciate all the jerseys in the crowd. Thank you again to New Era, and we're going to wrap it up like this. What was your finals prediction before the season, if you had one, and be honest, just pretend all these people are not here. What would your final's prediction be now? Philly versus who? My finals prediction before the season, if I remember correctly, was Thunder Salton.

No, not Thunder Celtics. Sorry. You picked Thunder Celtics, that would have been like, whoa. It was Thunder Nix, sorry. And the finals prediction now is Thunder Celtics. I like that we're going to end this on a good note with the crowd. Do you understand how hard it is for me to say all those words together? Like, it's not like I'm happy about it.

Yeah, would you even, would you just, would you hate watch that? Is that hate watching for you? You know what? I might watch like True Detective Season 2 over that. I might just be like, let's run it back. It's more upbeat. I don't have a hate watch. The concept of hate watching is like foreign to me.

Why would you watch something that you hate? But people do it. You haven't watched season five at Yellowstone, obviously. No, too violent for my wife, I think. I don't think we could do it. My preseason finals prediction was Thunder over Nix. I am forever bound by that prediction, but I asked myself to question. If I had to change it, if the basketball gods gave me permission to change it now,

I would also say Thunder over Celtics is my pick. will say this. I will say this. It's only because they're the number one seed. They have home court. They have 13 awesome players. Their defense is halacious. But if the basketball gods are just, we are going to get Denver, San Antonio, and the Nuggets can win that series. And if the basketball gods are just, whoever faces Oklahoma City, those teams, like, Denver almost beat them last year. The Spurs beat them four out of five. Like, we need the rockets to man up. Come on, guys. Just like have the peace talks. Just put it together.

Just give the Thunder a series, please. Despite the fact that we're both picking the Thunder, it's the easy pick, it's the chalk pick. I am just bracing myself, and I hope you are all bracing yourselves. Because there's a potential for these three teams to engage in like some super special basketball. Like they are three incredibly high-level teams

with three historically anomalous players in Shea and Wembe and Joker. and I do really believe truly that either the 21 nuggets or 22 nuggets are at least in the finals one of those years if not winning another trophy which changes everything maybe this is the year but either way like buckle up because it starts with Minnesota you guys have seen that twice and just like I can't believe that eight years later after I came to see this third year curiosity who was 22 years old all this stuff has happened and you guys like what a time in Denver sports. The Nuggets have an all-time great player. Rocky's killing it.

So I hope you guys get an awesome playoffs. And I'll say this. I hope I'm back here in May and June watching some conference finals or finals games. Anyway, that's it. Thank you. Thank you to New Era. Thank you to Chris Ryan, the MVP of the Ringer.

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