The Zach Lowe Show - Eastern Conference Deep Dive and Bam’s 83 Points With Jaime Jaquez Jr.

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Zach is joined by Michael Pina to break down the East and share their picks for most improved player. Then, Jaime Jaquez Jr. comes on to discuss his improvement, Jimmy Butler leaving, and being part of Bam’s historic night. Finally, Sean Fennessey joins for the first Mets Corner of the season. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (2:21) Michael Pina joins the show! (4:31) Jaylen Brown continues to impress (12:50) Jalen Duren feels like a lock for All-NBA (18:30) What is our Cavscon level at? (24:03) Are the Knicks just a weird team? (41:41) Wemby with another strong game last night (50:53) Let’s look at the bottom of the East (56:48) Wizards forced to apologize over April Fools joke (1:01:43) Most improved player candidates (1:07:50) Jaime Jaquez Jr. joins the show! (1:13:38) How do you continue to improve? (1:21:01) On Jimmy Butler’s departure (1:23:29) What was it like when Bam scored 83 points? (1:31:54) Mets Corner with Sean Fennessey! (1:33:20) The starting pitching has been fantastic (1:36:14) Bo Bichette’s early struggles continue (1:52:49) Do you care about Soto and Lindor’s relationship? Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Michael Pina, Jaime Jaquez Jr., and Sean Fennessey Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy Gil Social: Keith Fujimoto Visit https://neweracap.com for 20% off, exclusions apply. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mickelope Ultra. Playoff season is here. So what better way to get into the spirit of things that with a tournament of your own? Compete to see who can make the best tip. Test your basketball skills with a game of around the world. Even better if Mickelope Ultra is on the line, especially since they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets,

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The Celtic score a million points. Everybody scored a million points last night and beat the heat. Michael Pina is here. We're going to go around the NBA. some winners and some losers of the last week or so. Top of the East is going to be the center of the discussion. Celtics rolling pistons. Just keep on winning without Cade Cunningham.

They play Minnesota tonight. We'll see how that game goes. But hat tip to the Pistons, Jalen Duren, all NBA lock at this point. I would hope I would think he'd be on my ballot if I had a ballot. And then the other two teams at the top, the Cavs and the Knicks, kind of mystery boxes this late in the season. Weird up and down stretches lately, guys in and out of the lineup, just weird teams.

to sort of get a grip on them. Then the second half of the East playoff picture in complete chaos. Orlando's ninth, Miami's 10, Philadelphia is back to six. Atlanta just keeps winning. They blew out the match at last night. Their fifth quick peek in on all those teams. Plus, we do a little most improved player and some other around the NBA stuff, MVP. Wembe keeps talking about it.

Is the door cracking open for not just him, but Luca as well? Talk about all that stuff. Then Jaime Hakez Jr. comes on to talk all things. Heat 83 points, their weird season, their new offense, his offseason, his sister playing in the final four. And then Sean Finnessy for the season's first Mets corner. We're trying not to be too dire, trying to be optimistic. We're trying our best.

All coming up on the Zach Lowe show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA postseason is here, and Fandul knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. Fandul is the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parley or try live. betting and jump in after tip-off. And don't forget, with Fanduil, you get paid instantly when you win.

Download the Fandual Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 and over in select states, 18 and over in D.C., Kentucky, Wyoming, gambling problem. Called 1-800-Gambler. Call 1-88-7-8-8-8-9-7-77, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. It's Thursday. We've got, I don't know, two weeks left in the NBA regular season before the play-in.

And the East is in chaos all over the place. Michael Pina is here to help us break that down. Plus some MVP awards talk, lots of other stuff, a mascot controversy. Pina, how you doing? I'm doing great, man. I cannot wait to break down what happened with G.Wiz. I did. This is an amazing story.

We're not going to lead with that. We are going to just at least mention at the top that right before we recorded, the Pistons announced that Cade Cunningham will be out, re-evaluated in another week, which would mean four more games missed, which if my math is correct, would officially close the door on him making all NBA. The 65 game rule needs to go away. I don't love it.

I know that Adam Silver says what it's doing, what it's supposed to be doing. That's cool. It just, this is a bad one. He should at least be third team, all NBA. Give me,

give me as a voter. I'm not a voter anymore. The flexibility to do what I want, at least with that with third team. But Pistons just, let's start at the top of these, because the Pistons just keep on winning without Cade Cunningham.

They play Minnesota tonight. And the big winner of last night, the Celtics yet again, put up 53 points in the first quarter against Miami. And Jason Tatum, 25 points, 18 rebounds, 11 assists. He's officially, if not all the way back, and he's not. The efficiency still isn't there.

So much closer than anyone could have reasonably expected. It's not just the rebounding, the shot making, the three's coming along. He's got a few blowby drives or finish through contact drives every game now that are like, oh my God. And the way the Celtics are playing and the way the pistons are playing, both of those teams have to be very encouraged. And then the Cavs and the Knicks, the other two teams that have been in this top four all season long,

sort of just mystery boxes to me at this point. And I want to get your take on them for a bit. But first of all, Tatum, unbelievable performance all around. not unbelievable. It's Jason Tatum, but like considering where we are. I think Celtics as favorites in the East is now kind of hard to dispute despite how well the pistons are playing without cutting him. And the other thing I think happened last night, Jalen Brown had a sensational game, just overpowering everybody that the heat put in front of him, getting to the rim at will, making the simple play, the simple kickoff has when you should. And I think that the combination of Cade officially missing

all NBA and the way Jalen Brown is playing, I think he's going to get the fifth first team all NBA spot that's sort of been open behind Luca SGA, Yolkich and Wembe. And although I was a skeptic is too strong of a word I had at various points of the season, Anthony Edwards ahead of him, Donvin Mitchell ahead of him. You could make a Kauai argument based on advanced stats. I think I'd put Jalen Brown in the last all NBA. spot at this point. Anthony Edwards has missed some games. Donovan Mitchell's just kind of been in a weird shooting slump for two, three, four weeks now. And Kauai just, you know, he hasn't played

as many games, as many minutes. I'm looking at the minutes right now. Jalen Brown has played the most minutes of all of those four guys. He's played about 300 more than Kauai and 250 more than and. And the advanced stats are, which always disadvantaged to Jalen Brown. There's just something about his game, whether it's assist the turnover, is the number of mid-range jumpers he makes, whatever, that the advanced stats don't love. They're actually kind of narrowing to the point where team record,

individual performance, minutes played, I think Jalen Brown will get and deserves to get the last first deal all in the NBA spot. Yeah, I think that there's no wrong answer with a bunch of the names that you just mentioned. I would probably, this is going to go down to the wire for me with my vote. I think it's between Kauai and Jalen in that last spot.

And I kind of just think that Kauai is the better player and he's an all-time great having his best season. So it would just be a little tough for me not to appreciate that and all the turmoil that the team has gone through with trades and injuries and stuff that is probably his fault that happened in the past. He's just been phenomenal. So it's a toss-up for me. And I mean, J.B. has been incredible. And just last night against the heat, like, had, like, 13 points in the first three minutes of the game or something like that. He was stepping through double teams, knock it down threes. He's been phenomenal.

So I can't really say anything negative about any of these candidates. They're all phenomenal. I think, look, Kauai's better than Jailen Brown. Yeah. I don't think that's really up for serious debate. But the numbers this season, Jailen Brown's averaging 28.8 points a game. game. Kawhi's at 28.1. Shooting percentages are pro Kawhi. Jalen, 48% overall, 52% on twos, 34% on threes. Kawhi, 50% overall, 57% on twos, 38% on threes. Kauai's a better defensive

player. Jalen Brown has the edge and assists by a non-insignificant margin. Now, the downside is that he's got more turnovers than all of these guys, which is, and he has, I think, you know, he has a pension for live ball in the paint turnover. which are particularly damaging, and that may be one reason the advanced stats are a little bit lower on him than the others. But I just think I was so dead wrong about the Celtics. I took the under on 41 and a half. I eat shit for it every day. All of their staff and coaches know that I was down on them.

I just can't believe how good they are. And a number of things happened. Number one, Jalen Brown leveled way up, like way up. It didn't just like go up a notch. She went up like four notches in one year. The other thing that I sort of factored into myself, pessimism other than the lack of depth on the front line, the inexperience,

all the questions that people like Nimi Keda and Baylor Shireman and Hugo Gonzalez and on and on have answered was just in the typical run of a season, Derek White, on miss 15 games or Peyton Pritcher or missed 20 games. And that just hasn't happened. Their core guys have been healthy all year. And more than anything else, Jalen Brown just came out and set the tone from the beginning of the year

that I am a rock of stability. I am a floor. Our ceiling is going to get higher than you think, but I am going to keep us base level competent on every single possession on both ends of the floor and especially on offense. I'm going to be able to get us a decent shot every time I have the ball on offense

that I don't turn it over. And people are going to come back on this and throw the on-off numbers in my face in Jalen Brown's face, that the Celtics are quote-unquote better with Jalen Brown. off the floor. The last time I checked it were like plus 11 with Jalen Brown off the floor, plus six or something with him on the floor. And I just don't really care because the plus six is a

pretty impressive figure in its own right. He's going against all the best opposing lineups. He is on the floor all the time that the other team is in the bonus because of his rotation patterns. And free throw rate is a big reason. Opponent free throw rate is a big reason the Celtics defense takes a hit in the Jalen Brown on off minutes. Something. interesting is going on there, but I'm not going to penalize him for the fact that the Celtics are deep and awesome and competitive and stagger their rotations so that, you know, two of their best players are on the floor almost all the time. I'm not going to penalize him for that. Ants on off numbers aren't super impressive by this metric anyway. Donovan Mitchell's

are, have been, I just think at this point, given the minutes advantage he has, given the way he's finishing the season, I think he deserves it. Totally fair. I mean, At the start of the year when he was shooting the ball like Kevin Durant, I thought that that was one of the more revelatory parts of the season for the Celtics and kind of got them off to the hot start that they were able to sustain. And then I also think that, you know, Boston has always been a team or in recent years. They don't really attack the rim. and this year they one of the reasons that I am probably going to vote for Joe Mazula

for Coach of the Year is just how he's adapted his philosophies his strategies to to the personnel that he has and so it's obviously a more athletic younger team and they have upped their drives more than any other team from last year

to this year and Jalen I think is averaging like 10 more drives per game or per 100 positions I'm not sure than he did last year which is obviously significant. I mean, he puts so much pressure on the defense, and he's no slouch on that end either. So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a, we're splitting hairs. And so if you want to look at the team performance, obviously the Celtics are not in eighth place or wherever the clippers are. And that's a, it's a big deal. So I couldn't argue either one. I just think either one is a, is a good choice.

And I think the minutes, the minutes matter. The fact that he's played more games. And Kauai still has to finish, I think he qualifies to play every game to just hit the, maybe you can miss one more. I can't remember. That matters too. And the other thing that happened last night in that Miami win is that the Celtics are almost locked into number two. They're like an 80 to 90 percent lock on number two, which makes the race for the three

seed interesting, which puts them on the opposite side of the bracket from the Pistons, who just shout out to the Pistons. They're really, really good. I said last week that if you divided up the sort of pie over who would win the East, I would have the Celtics first and the Knicks second. We're going to talk about the Knicks because my God, just every fucking day is a saga with the Knicks. But that all the pie slices, to use group chat terminology, we're like fairly close to 25% among the top four teams, like plus or minus three, four percent here.

And the Pistons just are like, we want more, we want more pie. We're taking another slice of the pie. games out. Oh, you think he's our whole offense. We don't function out him. Here comes Dennis Jenkins. Why can't Danis Jenkins be the most improved player, Michael Pina? He played 23 minutes the entirety of last year, I think, and is now the starting point guard on a team that keeps winning. Jalen Duren, I had two people from the Piston sex me in the last 48 hours being like, hey, what do you think of Jail and Duren? Is he going to make all NBA? Is it going to be close? Like, is he going to get snub? I think he's a lot. I think he has to be all NBA the way he's carried the

offense and carried the team without Cade Cunningham. To me, he would be on my ballot. I don't know about yours. But just the Pistons remain one of the stories of the season. And I did not think whatever their schedule was that they would win this many games without Cade. They've been phenomenal. Six and two since Cade went down. The offense is basically unchanged in terms of points per possession. In terms of ranking, I think it's like 10th to 17th. The defense has been like rock solid, like no drop off whatsoever. They're still forcing turnovers. They're still protecting the rim.

They're still benefiting from a little bit of three-point luck. But I think during, I mean, I used the word revelation earlier to talk about Jalen Brown. I mean, I don't know if I want to step on what we're going to talk about later, but he's a strong candidate for most improved player for me. And he's averaging like 23, 10, and 3 with on 68% shooting or something since Cade went down. And he's just so much more assertive than he was last year all year long. He's one of the few bigs when he grabs an offensive rebound. It's a green light to go back up every single time.

He's not looking for, I mean, the pistons are bereft of three-point shooters anyway, but he's not looking to kick the ball out. He goes back up. He's super strong, obviously, and just a total mess. By the way, when he gets a defensive rebound, it's a green light to bring the ball up the floor and not waste any time and take advantage of whatever, you know, advantages the pistons have. 100%. And I just want to shout up this really random thing that he does that I love so much.

I don't really see too many other players, too many other bigs do it. But in dribble handoffs, you notice how he like bounces the ball like ahead of him so that whoever's coming to get it on the DHO curling around him will have a extra step on their man? I just think that's like so slick. And it's part of the great chemistry that he has with Kate. I think it's some of the best pick and roll chemistry in the NBA. But he's already developed it with Danis Jenkins and even like, Kevin Herder and Duncan Robinson. So I just think he elevates the team in a lot of different ways. He's one of the best screensetters.

And like when he ducks in and seals his man and he does great early work before he gets the ball, he's like the possession's basically over. Like he's going to get fouled. He's doubled his free throw attempts from last year to this year. He's just amazing. Like such a great season from him. And to your point, like a lock for all NBA for me too.

I think you should be. And he's one of the leading candidates for most improved player. I'm not sure he'd be my pick, but we'll get into that later. So the Pistons feel rock solid in that they're going to get the number one seed. Whether Kade comes back, when Kade comes back is a huge question. They can't win the East without Kate Cunningham. But they know exactly who they are and what their identity is. And reintegrating him will be as seamless as reintegrating Tatum has been for Boston.

Boston feels rock solid, ascendant. Tatum is ascendant. the whole team is absolutely rolling. They know exactly who they are as their identity. They know what they want to accomplish all the time. There is never any confusion about what we're trying to do on any possession. The next two teams in the East are so fascinating to me, maybe the two most fascinating in the league,

because we're 75 games in and because of roster construction, mid-season upheaval, injuries, whatever, it still feels like both the Cavs and the Knicks are trying to figure some fundamental things out about themselves, stuff that the Pistons and the Celtics have already figured out. I want to start with Cleveland. They got off to such a great start after swapping Garland for Hardin. And they're still playing well.

They're 10 and 7 in their last 17 games. That's kind of like, ooh, okay. The defense has slipped. I think they're like 15th, 16th overall, and worse than that in their last 20 games. There was always going to be some slippage potentially with Hardin and Jared Allen missing games. Allen's now back.

You started against the Lakers the other night. They got blown out by the Lakers and yet another Luca MVP. Hey, remember me. I'm still in this masterpiece performance. It wasn't close. Like they just got straight up outclassed by the Lakers who are absolutely, excuse me, absolutely humming. And almost like on both ends of the floor, all the chemistry issues they had earlier in the season are gone.

It's Lucas team and it looks amazing. And so like Max Struz started that. game as sort of the fifth guy alongside the other four. I think Cleveland's dream outcome would be that Struz takes that spot. The other dream outcome is that Dean Wade can stay healthy for more than 10 consecutive days because they like the defense with him, Ann Mowbly and Allen. But in that game, you know, it felt almost like deja vu. Cleveland got a little bigger swapping Garland for Hardin, a little stouter physically, a little bit more switchable defensively. And I'd hear the they are playing the Lakers and

Struce and Donovan Mitchell have to guard Austin Reeves and Luca Donchich and I'm like, this is the same basic problem that the cabs have had against teams with two elite wings or playmakers like the Celtics like Jalen Brunson.

How much has really changed for the cabs? You picked the cabs to win the east or at least two weeks ago I think you wrote a column about how the cabs are going to win the east. I've never gotten there with them and they are more confusing to me today than they were when you wrote that column. What is your state of Cavs?

What is your CavsCon level? I'm at CavsConn three right now. We're just at CavsCon three. What's your CavsCon level? I'll go three. Three is we're chilling. We're fine. That's kind of how I feel.

Maybe I need to go to two then because I'm not sure. Three is like I'd like, can I, I'd like to be at four. If I'm like 75 games, I'd like to be at four. Maybe I'm, but I'm still, I'm not panicked. I'm not global thermonuclear. clear war level one, but I'm level three. Capscon 3. Well, first of all, I'd like to say in that column

that I wrote, there was a caveat that, you know, this was right before Jason Tatum came back. So it was, if Jason Tatum comes back and looks like Jason Tatum, then the Boston Celtics were probably going to win the East. So to be fair to myself, have to throw that out there. But I'm still look, you

made the point about how that was Struis's first start of the season, I think. And he has to guard Luca. And that was just like all over my notes. in terms of this is kind of a disaster for the Cavaliers. Like, they are so desperate for Dean Wade. And I don't know if I'm so desperate. Or so desperate for, like, the player that everyone thought on multiple franchises

that DeAndre Hunter was and never actually was or will be. Great point. So I don't know if, like, I'm desperate for Dean Wade means I'm not a championship contender. I feel like that could be a reality. I just think the offense is amazing, and I would love to see this team win healthy. I loved, you know, they play the lineup when they beat Orlando recently.

They closed with Mobley, Hardin, Mitchell, Max Drews, and San Meryl. And I just, like, loves that. You missed the Lakers game, by the way. Sam Meryl also missed the Lakers game. Yeah, yeah, who's been unbelievable, and he's also so critical to their team and how they play. But that lineup that closed Orlando, I was just really fascinated by it. Kenny Atkinson's decision to kind of surround his three best players with shooting, some of the best shooting in the entire NBA.

Max Truces shot the crap out of the ball since he's come back too. So I would just love to see, I think Kenny has a lot of options, and it's a good problem to have, but he has so many, I mean, Keon Ellis, Dennis Schrooter, like, who is going to come in and who are they going to play with? When are they going to play? There's some questions that they still. have to figure out, as you said, and you alluded to, but I just really want to see them healthy. And I still think, like, they could find themselves in a playoff series and kind

of carry themselves through, because they're just so talented. And they know they've gelled offensively, almost immediately. The pick and roll chemistry with Hardin and Allen was so seamless. So do I think they're going to win the East? I would still pick Boston, but I like the Cavs in a series against the Knicks. And I like the Cavs, honestly, in a series against the pistons, a team that I really, really respect. But I just think, like, shooting is so important in the playoffs. And I think that they can scrounge up enough defense against those two teams to beat them with their offense.

I'll tell you what the Cavs haven't earned. The Cavs haven't earned the right for us to just pen them in the second round when the Hawks are playing so well. Okay. The Hawks are fifth. I sort of can't believe that the Hawks are sustaining this against non-tanking teams, but they are. They beat the hell out of the magic in Orlando.

Second, I'd have a back-to-back for Orlando. But, you know, you'd think a team with a lot at stake would come out, not lose by 30 at home. The magic lost by 30 at home. Look, the Cavs should be awesome. And the offense is awesome. And they found instantly the right balance between the half court, when everyone's on the floor,

kind of hardens domain with Mitchell as a secondary attacker. Transition is all Donovan Mitchell, catch and go. Harden Allen, central casting, pick and roll combo, hard and mostly coming along in Allen's absence. You throw it all together. You have the recipe for a great and deep team. It's just a team that, you know, when it's run into some playoff bullies, has not exactly responded with fervor. And the pistons, I'm guilty of it focusing on what they don't have in terms of shooting and secondary playmaking, which, by the way, they're proving we got a little bit more the second thing than you thought.

They are bullies, and they will kick the absolute living shit out of you if you're not ready to face them. And the calves seem pretty happy to be in the fourth seat and to draw the pistons in the second round if they get there. If Cade's back, I mean, good, good luck. Like, you got to bring your A game in that series. And I haven't seen their A game for 15, 20 games now. Maybe that's just because Alan's been out. And Alan was very good against the Lakers, at least offensively. defensively, I thought he was eh.

So we'll see. The Cavs, and the other thing is you mentioned the options, you know, between the injuries and guys in and out of the lineup and like minutes restrictions and this and that, like, why is, like, I don't understand why Thomas Bryant is still playing at all. You have these two centers on your team. You're going to stagger the minutes. I think that's one sort of low hanging free.

He's fine. Like Thomas Bryant is fine on a team with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. He just shouldn't play. And that's no short to him. That's just the reality. So I'm interested in the cabs. There's still a bit of a mystery box. I would not pick them to win to East right now.

The Knicks, I'm starting to think that the weirdness is just overtaken them. And it may be the defining feature of their season. They're still just rock solid by the numbers. They haven't beaten really any good teams since they beat the Spurs at home and then came back and had a great run against the Rockets at home. And there was just something about them. I went on Ian Begley's show earlier this week, and I compared it to the sensation you have when there's a word or like a name,

like a trivia answer on the tip of your tongue, and you've got it, but you just can't quite form it. That's what watching the Knicks is like to me. It's like they, for whatever reason, every third game, they catch a roll, they catch a vibe where the pieces suddenly click into place and you're like, that's the team. that's the team I picked to make the finals.

And you're not even sure what happened to click them in the place or why all of a sudden they are greater than the sum of their parts. And then just as quickly as you've digested that and been happy about it, they lose it. And we go back to this like, hey, they're still pretty good. It's not like their slumps are bad other than the one in the middle of the season when they were two and nine over an 11 game stretch. But it's like it's clunky.

And Kat doesn't take shots. and teams are switching the Brunson cat pick and roll and putting their centers on Josh Hart. And an issue that the Knicks looked like they had kind of solved one game ago is now just completely gumming up their offense. And it's just this ineffable mystery to me that they have it and then they don't.

And I just, I can't figure out why or what clicks or what makes them click when they click. but they're not clicking enough for me to have a ton of faith that this year is going to end the way James Dolan says that it had to end. But you watch this team up close. You live in New York. What am I, what are you seeing?

Does what I'm saying make sense to you? Like, I just, they have it and then they don't. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, of late,

I mean, the way I would just kind of synthesize it of the last month or so is that they haven't beaten any good teams. at all. And all of their wins are against, if you look at their schedule, like really bad tanking teams. And when they do lose against the good teams,

it's like embarrassing losses. That loss against the Houston Rockets, not only did Kevin Durant, you know, come out and hit his first like five shots or whatever and almost put the game away, like two minutes into it. But like,

Tari Easton scores seven straight points at one point. And with like, five minutes to go in the first quarter. And Kat makes a hook shot. It's 2410 to make it 2410 rockets. And they're coming down and nobody picks up Tari Isson. He just crosses half court. Amman Thompson is walking the ball up the floor,

passes it to Tari Isan to the right, wide open three. This guy just scored seven straight points. It's the three, 10 straight points, timeout next. Like stuff like that happens way more than it should for a team that can legitimately win a championship, in my opinion.

And I've always been a bit of a skeptic in the defense, the numbers. I know the numbers. They're terrific. They're great. I watch them. You know, there are games and stretches where their defense is amazing,

and I have nothing negative to say about it. I think fundamentally, I always go back to just the differences between the regular season and the postseason with how they're built and how they can be attacked. And so I'm generally skeptical. And when you throw in like the, the lackadaisical brain farts that you see recently quite a bit, it's concerning.

But, you know, there's stuff to like, too. But I just think like there's so much, you know, Kat said recently that they could figure it out in game 81 or 82. And it's like, that is one of the most damning quotes I've heard. That's just not, I don't think that's going to happen. This is like every week there's either. There's some sort of Knicks existential crisis every week. It's a cat quote.

It's cat shot attempts. It's the McHale Bridges trade being brought up on every media show because McHill Bridges had eight points on two of seven shooting for the third straight game. It's just, there's just a lot going on all the time other than the Knicks playing awesome basketball. I'm just, I find the Brunson cat thing endlessly fascinating. I remember, I think I was on with Bill earlier in the season when I said, that pick and roll combination just hasn't led to what I thought it would lead to. It's just not as easy for them to get Cat open threes and Cat pick and pop attack, close out, all that.

And you wonder why, and the most obvious answer is that teams don't put their centers on Kat. We'll get to that. Even when they do, and Detroit did for almost the entirety of the first round last season, it just doesn't lead where you think it's going to lead. And I think part of it is that Brunson, as great as he is at lots of things, is just not that kind of playmaker. He's a little bit more methodical. He's looking for his own shot more than he's looking to like bust down the defense

and start ball. And that's fine. He's great at that. But it's not conducive to cat being maximized. And I looked this up because I was curious because I think about like when do the Knicks start to look like the ball is flying around because they have a lot of like smart, intuitive movers and cutters and passers on their team. And that's to tell for me.

When the ball is really moving, they're very hard to guard and they're in a rhythm on both ends of the floor. And I think it translates to the other end too for them when everyone's involved. And I just like looked up when Brunson and Mitchell Robinson are on the floor and cat is off the floor, they are plus 11 per 100 possessions and scoring at, 127 points per 100 possessions according to cleaning the glass. And the reason I looked that up was there was one game I watched recently. It was one of the games where they found it, where they found it. And they were rolling. And it was during one of those segments. And the reason they were rolling is

because when Mitchell Robinson is in the game, the other teams put their centers on Mitchell Robinson. He's not a threat to shoot jump shots the way Cat is. We're not worried about switching where to play our normal defense. And they often blitz Jalen Brunson or come up to the level of the screen because if you drop on him, he's just going to eat you up with mid-range jump And when you do that in that alignment, Brunson gets off the ball fast. And sometimes he hits Robinson on the roll for a dunk or Robinson kicks it out. Sometimes if he can't get that pass, because it's a straight on pass and Jalen Brunson's not very tall, he'll swing it to Josh Hart over here.

Hart will hit Mitchell Robinson on the roll. And the ball just starts moving in such a dynamic way. And I don't think it's entirely a coincidence that through no fault of his own that those sequences seem to happen more when it's Brunson and Robinson and not Cat. However, you are not getting to the Promise Land without Carl Anthony Towns giving you 30 to 35 A plus minutes in a lot of games because his shooting is so powerful. So yet again, we are two years into this and the Knicks have to figure out more consistent answers to the wing on cat, wing on Brunson, center on heart defense that the smart teams, the able teams, the teams that have the personnel to do it, are going to throw at

them. And that's what's so maddening about the Knicks. Because in some games, they pull all the right levers. It's not like they don't know what the counters to this are. They've seen it for two years. And those levers work to varying degrees. And in other games, they just don't touch some of the best levers and they just get it gummed up. And every commentator says the same way, you got to give the ball to cat. You got to force feed the ball to cat. I'm here to tell you, that's not the answer to this. At least not all the time. You want to force feed the ball to cat in the post against Tari Isson or Jalen Williams from the Thunder winged Jelan Williams. That is a losing proposition.

You're not going to win against good teams that way. He's not going to be efficient enough. There are going to be too many turnovers. Now, if you want to force the ball to cat when, you know, like if he times his duck in correctly and the defense isn't ready to load up on it and he can go quickly, that's a different story. If Brunson has not a wing on him but a small guy on him, like a traditional point guard, and you run Brunson, Cat Pick and Roll, and that guy switches on to Cat, that's a different story than Jill and Williams or Tar Heeson. But the Knicks, two years in, have let this scheme sort of gum them up too often and against the wrong opponent.

It happened against the Cavs. It happened against the Thunder. It's happened against the Celtics. They're just not going to score enough to win. And they have to figure it out because they need Cat and they need a spacing the way he unlocks their cutting game. it's just it's the most interesting puzzle in the NBA to me is the Knicks against that defense. Yeah, I really like how you brought up shorting the pick and roll with Mitch Robinson because you're seeing it actually a little bit deliberately with Carl Towns. Like at the beginning of the Thunder game, I think it was their first play of the game. It was a pick and roll, high pick and roll with Brunson cat. Cat dives. Brunson. Heart comes up to the opposite elbow.

Brunson hits him. What you're describing is the first play of the game and the Knicks ran it because they knew Houston is not starting Reed Shepard in this game. They're starting Tari Isson over him, specifically for this reason to switch to Brunson cat pick and roll because not only is Isan an animal

in a huge wing defender, we could put wings on everyone. So we're not switching ourselves into a disadvantage on Brunson either. And so what Kat did is I know you're going to switch. I'm going to slip out a bit hard ahead of the switch with you on my back and I'm going to the rim. Jalen's not going to be able to get this pass to me directly,

but Hart's going to be over here. He's going to hit Hart. Hart's going to hit me. I'm going to lay the ball up and in. That's the kind of lever they have to pull, but it just, it didn't sustain. No, it doesn't.

I mean, in the Thunder game, they tried it again in the third quarter and it was sniffed out immediately. I, you know, like obviously posting up Kat is not, like she said, smart.

He's turning it over. Danny Chow just wrote a great piece on The Ringer.com about this. Kat is turning the ball over 25% of the time on postups. That's not a good number. And I think, like, you know, it was really interesting to watch last night's game without Brunson. And, you know, he had like a triple double 11 assists and they played through him. And he was making quick decisions. And there were a bunch of, you know, really ugly turnovers for sure. He fell out of bounds once trying to drive baseline.

He does that every game for sure. I just thought that was like a, because like when I, before the season started, when they hired Mike Brown, I thought that Carl Anthony Towns was going to be used like Demontasabonis, like in a similar vein playing through him on the perimeter, dribble handoffs,

you know, elbow work, serving the floor from the elbow. And that just hasn't been how they wanted to play, largely because it doesn't accentuate Jalen Brunson, I don't think. but last night you saw that and I'm not saying that that's an answer at all but it was just interesting to see towns act that way and then play through him in a game where their offense

was by and large very good their defense was terrible but um and they played against the team that doesn't start a center which was a factor um and is and is tanking and it's tanking yes of course so but no I so I don't really know what to say that's constructive here um I we've seen Carl Anthony Towns in the playoffs so many times. We've seen we know his warts. I don't know what you do. Like, I don't know.

Well, part of it is, part of it is heart is going to be the solution to a lot of this, a big part of the solution, or he's not going to be able to play as much. And I don't know the answer. Like, when they, when they hum, they leverage this scheme against the other team by using Josh Hart like Jarmon Green. Like, you're not going to guard me.

I'm going to swing it to you on the second side. going to run handoffs, the Spurs game, which they wanted home, was a landmark game in that regard. I just, I just think it's interesting because if I, if I'm the Pistons and the Celtics, I'm looking at these other two teams and thinking, we got some kind of edge on them, maybe psychologically the way that they're sort of just trying to figure themselves out. And the Knicks obviously, you know, the Bridges trade comes up over and over again because they gave up so much for him. They lost all of their optionality to try to chase Janus. Obviously, the Yonis situation is unresolved.

And if the Knicks have a bad playoffs, this is all going to be revisited, every bit of it. The decision to go for bridges in the first place and overpay for him, knowing that Yonis may come down the road and we no longer have the easy ammo to go get him. The Yonis situation in Milwaukee, who just loses every game by a thousand points, though I think they actually won last night. No, they lost by only six last night. Usman Zhang had a huge game. that will be revisited. And just the sort of general, like, if this team tops out as very expensive

and not quite good enough, it's going to be a very interesting offseason for the Knicks, if we get to that point. And I think about it a lot. It's like, you know, so the Bridges trade, the Bridges trade was made because the team got better more quickly than I think they even anticipated. That was the year.

It was after they had lost to Indiana in the second round of the playoffs. And they had just like ran out of players. Basically, everybody got hurt. And they thought pretty confidently, like, we would have won that series if we were healthy. We're there. We're there now.

We can't afford to wait for theoretical player X to become available. Embedd was already too much of an injury risk for them to go chase at that point at this level. And they were just like, maybe Janus just never demands a trade. Maybe he still never demands a trade. And then you start to think like, well, what are the other players that they could have gotten had they used some of the bridges ammo, not all of it. And you're like, Brandon Ingram went for a lot less. Durant is the one went for a lot less. And obviously they've

got their optionality. They would have had their optionality this summer. But, you know, it's just going to be an interesting summer for the Knickerbockers. But hopefully an interesting playoffs too, because I wouldn't close the door on them making the finals. Like they've shown a certain toughness. They like the Celtics matchup. Like they've shown the ability to problem solve a little bit more than you would think, given how often problems seem to tackle them? Yeah, I was just going to say, because you were talking about who else could they have gotten, and I would be, I would, I don't, this is kind of a move point, but like, throwing that same bag at Lowry Marketon, that pretty, that would be a pretty interesting move for the, for the Knicks.

And I think that I just envisioning him in that system and how he plays would be really, the fit would be cleaner, I think. He might be here or there. He might be a jazz. life earn. That was obviously before the town's trade too. Speaking of the honest, just interesting, you know, as we watched the Nuggets try to figure it out, they've won, I think, seven games in a row now, six or seven games in a row. A lot of them against bad teams, not a lot of them like super convincing and they're particularly with their defense.

But Camp Johnson's coming along. Pete Watson got hurt last night. He hurt his hamstring again. Knock on wood. They need him. Hopefully that's not serious. and, you know, they're trying to find a stable enough defense for them to realistically win three playoff series in the West. And I will never close the door on that team doing that based on even like they almost beat the Thunder last year with a bunch of injuries of Michael Porr Jr. playing with one arm. It's been interesting to me, Yokech and Janis, not, I wouldn't say they're on like parallel trajectories, but they're interesting in this regard. the only players who have won multiple MVP's and won one or zero NBA titles are Steve Nash, zero titles, Karl Malone, zero titles, Moses Malone, one title, and Bob Pettett, one title for the 1958 St. Louis Hawks.

Every other multiple MVP, multiple-time MVP has won at least two NBA championships. Yokic, of course, has won three MVPs, Ghanis is won two. The players who have won three MVPs, here's the whole list. Bill Russell won 11 titles, MJ 1,6, Magic 1, 5, LeBron has won 4, Bird won 3, Wilt 1, 2, and Moses Malone is a three-time MVP 1-1. It's just, that's the territory though those guys are in as multiple MVP winners, and they're reaching the point in their careers where it's getting a little urgent, like time is against them, particularly with Wembea, Wembeyanma, in the West.

Western Conference and the Thunder in the Western Conference. It's just an interesting discussion ahead. And by the way, Janice has won one playoff series since the 2021 NBA title. It's just food for thought, that's all. But can we talk about the MVP now? Sure. Just very quickly because it's been done to death. Wemby, 41 more points last night against the overmatched Warriors.

Triple down said, I want the MVP. All the great ones grab all the hardware they can get when they're young. I want it. I'm staking my claim to it. I just love what he's done for the NBA's competitive culture. I don't want to be buddies with everybody. I want to vanquish everyone and I want to do it now. Is the door, this is the one award you did not give out in your column this week.

Yeah. It's been Shea's award all season. He's still shooting 55% on twos for the best team in the NBA. He still has played 350-ish more minutes than Wembenyama. But I will say this. the advanced stats between the four of them are starting to narrow. Even with Luca, like Luca's made up some ground not only in the raw stats, but in the advanced numbers. Is this race with five, six games to go more open than the odds suggest than you think?

Or should it be more open than the odds suggest? Should it be more open? Yes, I think so. I don't think that that's realistic. And I think that it's going to be between two players and will. see how things kind of shake up coming down the stretch here. Shea and Wembe? Yeah. I am, as you can see behind me, a Nicola Yokojachachakalite. I think that even with the injury, him coming back, the defensive issues, you know, shooting percentages dropping for a few weeks. His team 10, 11 wins below. low, the thunder and the spurs, and not having a chokehold on all the advanced numbers like he

normally has for the last five or six years. I think that a case could, a more credible case could be made for Yokic than I've heard. And I think that, like, I know you've talked about this a ton of your show. I still think he's the best player in the world. I don't know how much longer that will last. And I do think, like, some of the turnovers that he's throwing now, I don't, some of them I just, I'm not taking that seriously. I'm just, like, the kick-aheads where his, like, eyes are closed. Like, he had a turnover against the Utah Jazz last night where they, he, OLE defense, layup,

and he passes the ball into the dude who just, I forget who it was on the jazz, who just made the layup, so gave up four points in about two seconds. And I know I'm not really helping my case by saying all the bat, things up front here. But I will say like no one has ever led the league in assist and rebounds in a season, which he is going to do averaging point per game. He's the most efficient player out of all of these guys who are candidates. He generates the most points per game out of all of them. He generates in terms of just scoring the ball and assisting baskets. He generates 20 more points per game than Victor Wembeyanama.

He's the only one who when he takes, when he in, this is a, I think this is kind of a semantics argument, but he's the only one when he sits, the team falls apart. Like, Victor Wemannama, when he sits, offense is okay. When he sits in Luke Cornett's on the court, team is pretty good. Like, things are fine. Shagel, just Alexander is amazing. And the fact that, you know, him and Victor, them, being plus 17, plus 16, whatever they are net rating when they're on the court, is incredible.

And Yokic is like plus 10 or 11 or something like that. And I don't want to denigrate any of either of these guys. But I just think like we factor a little bit too much, like the fact that SGA has a all defensive team on his roster, literally. And so when he sits, the defense is the exact same, which is the best defense that we've seen relative to league average. since at least 1997. So, like, that's kind of like where my cases. When I look at value, these are the things that I care about how, like, what you mean to your team in addition to, you know, efficiency and production and all that and winning.

And like, it's not like the nuggets are a bad team. Like they've just won't seven a row. Yokic should probably win player of the month in March. His March was insane. First of all, I want to applaud you for just completely hijacking the conversation for a Yokic, for a Yokic true believer, screed. I'm sorry. I enjoyed it.

It was a great plot twist. I was not expecting you to be like, no, actually, Yokic is the MVP. I would like to counter. May I counter? Sure. Of course. The spurs are minus 23 with Victor Wembeiyama off the court for the season and plus 661. with him on the floor.

He has the second best plus minus in the league behind Shea Gildjus Alexander, the Thunder are plus 685 when he's on the floor. You said that he's the most efficient of all of these players. And again, I am a Yokic true believer. I drink Rakia. Like, I'm all about it, okay? I eat chibapi, like the whole thing. True shooting percentage, Yokic 673, Shea 666, sign of the beast.

He gets to the line more. He's a better free throw shooter. Yolk is shooting 64% on twos, Shea is shooting 60%. Like I think it's efficiency-wise. It's pretty much a wash. I do want to clarify one thing because I'm getting roasted, as the kids say, for saying about Shea, quote,

this is Michael Jordan, but of the modern era. Okay, people, this, the this in that question, was the single season Shea is having right now and the one having before it, because shooting fifth, a guard, shooting 55% when he takes this many threes is Jordanesque. That is what I should have said. I should have used the phrase Jordan-esque.

Shea Gilgis Alexander is not Michael Jordan. You know how I know? I'm 48 years old. I grew up with Michael Jordan. I still think Michael Jordan is the greatest player in the history of basketball. I am not making a direct one-to-one comparison between SGA and Michael Jordan. And that's partly my fault for not stating it as artfully and precisely. as I should have.

Michael Jordan is the single most inevitable athlete of my life. And I say that as someone who just as a neutral fan began cheering against the Bulls late in their championship run because I just wanted someone else to win. And yet even cheering for those teams, you knew they were not going to beat Michael Jordan. The only athlete that I can remember who had that level of inevitability to them

is another athlete that I began to cheer against frequently was Mariano Rivera when he would come into games or even before when he was looming when the Yankees were ahead by two runs in the sixth inning and you knew they can get two in the third out of Mariano Rivera in the playoffs. There was an inevitability. So just apologies for not being as precise. But 55% from a guard and clutch numbers that are outrageously good is Jordanesque. I would still vote for Shea, but I think the door is cracking open because Wembe Njama is finishing with this incredible. incredible kick. They never lose. We know the defense. You're right to Cape for Yokech a little bit. And Luca, the advanced stats are narrowing. I don't think the, I think the first two months when

the Lakers were trying to figure out their chemistry and whatever and the defense and the whining into the refs were talking points has hurt him. But he has been, this is maybe the best he's ever played in the last two months. And it hasn't been three weeks or four weeks. It's been a couple of months now. And they are, I mean, they are legitimately pretty scary. Like, I would not pick them against the spurs or the thunder. I've said before I wouldn't pick them against the wolves. I'm beginning to waver on that. Nuggets, I would still pick the nuggets.

But their chemistry, LeBron playing off the ball, like old man, LeBron, like attacking closeouts, getting corner threes. Luca playing just with a zip and a speed that I don't even remember. There was a play against Cleveland. He sprinted the floor. did not have the ball sprinted the floor, got it at half court, sprinted into the lane with the ball, dumped it to LeBron for a lap.

Like, this guy is playing with a pace and his zip. I don't know. Anyway, I think the MVP is a little bit open, but I enjoyed the Yokish sidebar because I do think the defense has been worse since the injury. The turnovers have been worse since the injury. The nuggets are behind the two key teams and the standings. Yeah. He still is having a crazy Yokic season,

which is why he's a three-time MVP and why that's that. sit out to me. Okay, can we change gears? Unless you have more IPP things to say. No, I appreciate the platform. It's a cape for my guy. It was fun. It was fun. I just want to quickly go through the east, the bottom half of the east playoffs because this is like,

I've reached a stage where it's like just wake me up, not wake me up, but like I'm not going to track the standings every day because all of a sudden it's like Philly's back in six, Toronto's in the play in, Orlando's ninth, Miami's 10th. Charlotte is eighth. The race for eight's an important one. Like we need Charlotte as neutral fans. We need Charlotte to get to eighth to get two shots to get into the playoffs.

And the rest of these should not want them to get into eighth. I just, you know, Atlanta has got a chokehold on the fifth spot because they have the Sixers tie break. They do not have the Raptors tie break. And these are just like a bunch of teams. It's like, I don't know. The team I know is Charlotte. Charlotte has been really, really good for 55 games now. The Raptors, look, I know quickly was out and Brandon Ingram was out,

lost to the Kings at home. Like the rare, it's like, it's like Haley's comment when one of the tanking teams beats a non-tanking team and we saw it, we got a sighting last night. And the magic, we all made fun of them for giving up the 310 run, which is like, they could have put me in and I might have been able to stop the 310 run. I would have at least committed a flagrant foul. And then they responded with a nice win over Phoenix.

And then they proceeded to get drubbed at home in an actual important game to the Hawks. They're ninth now. The Raptors are seventh. It's just a complete mess. Paul George was outstanding last night. And B. did not play he was ill. I don't even know what point I'm making.

I would say the most interesting of these teams from a bigger picture standpoint is Franz Bagner came back last night. And this feels very much. like the last stand for the Orlando Magic, for Jamal Mosley, for this iteration of the team. Like, it's now or never, you have the starting five back, you have the two forwards healthy at the same time. You don't have Anthony Black, that's a big loss.

Maybe you'll get him back at some point. You have Suggs. This feels like the last stand of this team, and it doesn't feel like it's going to work. I watch a lot of Orlando Magic basketball for some reason. They were a team that I was so high on, coming into this season. I don't know if I was more wrong about the magic of the Celtics,

but inverse predictions. I'm not going to say I can't quit them because I definitely can, and I pretty sure I have quit them, and I just don't see them. I mean, they barely beat the Kings last week. It's just one of their only wins in the last, you know, two and a half weeks. It's, and just like the vibes,

the bickering between, the franchise player and the head coach, and both of them might not be there next year. Who knows? I'll just say, like, when they have Jalen Suggs, I'm more of a believer in anything they're trying to accomplish. And I just love that dude so much. I like that he's healthy right now.

He's playing like a demon. I think Desmond Bain's season has been a little underrated. He hasn't missed it. game all year. He shut the ball pretty well. I think he leads the league, not maybe leads the league in total layups, something like that. So he, I just want to shout out him. Tristan De Silva, big fan, but like, awesome. They're 40 and 36. Yeah. I think that the Palo, Franz, do-o, I mean, you just can't keep making excuses with the injuries. It's just not, it's just not happening. Well, especially when you threw four first-round picks in,

at Desmond Bain, which, you know, when we were talking about sort of missed opportunities for the Knicks, I didn't really consider him because you have to think who fits with Brunson, like, what do you actually need? And that's not exactly what I would be chasing. Yeah, it's just a wild group of teams and the swings are going to be wild night tonight. The Hawks, I wasn't fully buying it. Like, they were playing well, but they were just playing a bunch of horrible teams. They're legitimately playing well. They're pretty interesting. They have a style of play that I'm not sure how well it would train. translate offensively in the playoffs when teams are really geared up for it.

But in the regular season is tough to play against the ball movement, the unpredictable combinations of pick and rolls where people are coming off screens, the pace, all of it is really, really hard. And I think Gillen Johnson is pretty much a borderline lock, at least for an all-NBA spot. Okay, before we talk more about awards real quickly, we have to get into this. It's been a wild week in the NBA.

We have the Jade and Ivy thing, which I don't even know what to make of that, except it seems strange and a little bit like stuff is going on in his life that is difficult. And we hope everything's fine. By the way, disaster for the Bulls, like a great second draft chance, like an actual smart move to try to grab a top five pick, heading into restricted free agency, goes bust on them in a way that so many things have gone bust on them. We've had that. and we've had what other strange things. It's been a strange thing.

But, oh, the Hanson, the Hanson Yang, Yang, rather. The Blazers are fined $100,000 and two of their front office executives, Mike Schmitz, and Sergei Oliva are fined, are suspended without pay for two weeks for improper contact with Yang in China before he was draft eligible. Worth noting, by the way, that he has been, like, disastrously bad in his limited NBA minutes, like, so, like, like. two years away from being two years away kind of bad. Now, he's been good in the G League.

He's shooting like 70% on twos in the G League. It clearly has skill. But every time that dude has gotten on the floor in the NBA, it's been like, oh my God, this guy is so far away. So that's a weird one. And then we have the Washington Wizards. The Washington Wizards, this is a real thing that happened. Had to issue a press release this morning,

a very serious press release, apologizing for an April Fool's joke that they pulled last night. The joke was they had a fan shoot blindfolded for $10,000. And G. Wiz, the stupid mascot was there and a million other mascots. There must have been G. Wiz's birthday. And he misses the shot. But the joke is everybody goes crazy. There's celebration.

Air horns are playing. And the joke is they're going to make. him think he won $10,000. They have the giant check. And then they show him the replay on the Jumbo Tron. And it's wah, wah, you actually lost. And people believed, rightfully so, because that's what you're trying to make people believe, that this was a real fan who had $10,000 dangled in front of his face.

And then had it yanked away by the freaking Phoenix gorilla and Rocky the Mountain Lion and G. Whiz and whoever else. And the Wizards have to send this press release. This is a real press release. We apologize for last night's April Fool's joke that left many wondering if we had misled a fan. The skit involving our mascot and other members of our performance team was scripted and intended to celebrate the day. All participants were in on the joke, but we missed the mark. Our fans are our priority and we continue to be committed to providing a positive experience to all who attend our games.

the hundreds of you who attend our games. I made that last part of. If I were the PR person who wrote that press release, if I didn't, I might not quit, but I would be like, here's the press release. I'm going on a bender. I'll see you in like 96 hours.

This is the lowest moment of my professional career. The Wizards cannot even do a mascot April Fool's joke prank correctly. And the downside of this is now everybody knows. everybody's in on it. When freaking clutch the bear, if he still does this, and Houston hits an opposing fan with the pie, when any prank is done on a fan wearing a jersey from the opposing team, now everybody knows.

They're part of the skit. They know it's okay. If you didn't know it before, now you know. So the wizards ruined that for everybody to. Only the wizards could do this. And the self-seriousness of the press release is just, my congratulations to the wizards. Who is offended by this?

this. I mean, should we just cancel April Fool's Day? I didn't even see any good jokes yesterday. I don't think that our country currently has a sense of humor for obvious reasons. And what, like, who was, did people write in? Were they upset? Like, I don't know. Why would this even make you mad? Because, look, I agree with you that it's, um, it would have been a mean prank. If it were real, it would have been mean, right? If the fan actually thought he had won $10,000, it would have been pretty mean. Like, I have a dark sense of humor. I would probably have thought it was kind of funny.

But I get people being like, that's just fucking mean. Like, you're the wizards. You're lucky this guy's even at the game. You're lucky anyone's at the game. People thought it was mean, I guess. I wouldn't have apologized for it. I certainly would have issued this. It has wizards, like, let her head on top of it.

It's the whole thing is, you know what it reminds me? By the way, my daughter, we were at a hotel recently. And apparently my daughter and my wife, she got sucked into family feud. She had never seen Family Feud before. And by the way, Steve Harvey Family Feud, 11-year-old daughter is not quite ready for what's going out to Steve Harvey, Family Feud. But it reminded me the all-time best family feud host is Ray Combs.

You're probably too young to remember Ray Combs. I believe he was the second host of the show. And he used to play this prank. It would only happen like once a year, a couple times a year. The first person to play Fast Money, you know what Fast Money is, Pina? No. Okay, but you got to, people know what Fast Money is. You don't, but people do.

You got to get 200 points. You get two family members combined have to give a series of survey answers. And 200 points and you win. If the first person got 200 points all by him or herself, Ray Combs would be like, all right, congratulations, you won the $10,000. We're going to bring the second person out here

and make up a fake score that you got like 72 points and all the pressures on you and prank them. And he would just add lib absolutely bizarre and impossible questions that would completely flummox the poor person and they would be like I just choked on national TV and then they would turn around and realize

oh no they had won. The difference is they had won the family few people are trying to trick them into thinking they were losing and in the end they win the wizards are doing the opposite. Okay real quickly most improved player. You gave it to Jalen Duren correct? I did. Here are my final final candidates like I'm really whittling it down

into the last batch of like six or seven guys. Nikita Alexander Walker, Nemeus Keda, Jalen Duren, Dennis Jenkins, Ryan Rollins, Colin Gillespie. I think that's about it. No, Denny Avdia? I just feel like that's kind of, Denny Avdi and Jalen Johnson, like I feel like it kind of started last year. Yeah, fair.

Both have made jumps, but sure, they can be on the list. Duren is wildly deserving candidate. I mean, to go up this much in usage and efficiency and give up nothing on defense and be able to create offense without K is wild. To me, Nikola Alexander Walker feels like it's in, it's most in the spirit of the award. That guy's averaging 20 points a game and scoring in every possible way. He's hunting threes. He's leading the fast break.

He's doing like crazy spin moves on people. He hasn't sacrificed anything on defense. I think I might vote for Nikkela Alexander Walker. I love it. He was my runner up. I gave him a long, hard look, almost chose him. And if I'm being honest, part of the reason I chose Duren was because I predicted he would win the award before the season,

and I like being correct about things. But Nikol, Alexander Walker, 20 points out of nowhere, nine points per game last year. I just love how he's increased his usage and his touches more than any other player in the league, I think. And like the defense is still all defensive team caliber. Like he's incredible. It'll pick you up full court. He really cares.

He tries. And him and Dyson Daniels as a back court is just phenomenal. And that's one of the reasons why they've been so successful. So, yeah. This is another award where it's just very, it's like impossible to pick between the two. You've got to flip a coin. But I love how, you know,

you talk about the spirit of the award. Like this is his fourth team, I think. And obviously the opportunity has increased. But like they didn't bring him in to do this. This wasn't like envisioned. He came in to come off the bench and like supplement Tray Young. Like it's completely caught everyone off guard. So shout out to him.

love watching him play too. He's so exciting. Just like the handle, the shot making, the body control. He's great. The left hand is legendary stuff. So if you pick him,

I think that that's totally valid. The left hand is part of what makes him so good in Atlanta's system because he can come from anywhere at any time. You know, like a lot of guards, he'll start in the corners and come off and take handoffs flying around. But he can do that from the right corner or the left corner, whereas because he can go, he doesn't have like a dominant hand.

He can go either direction. Whereas a lot of guards, it's like I have to come from the left corner because I'm right handed. And they just play like there was a play last night against Orlando. Orlando scored and the Hawks brought the ball up sprinting. And Nikiel was sprinting. Jail and Johnson had the ball. And the keel was sprinting.

And he sprinted. And I mean sprinted. And then came full stop into a back screen, like a flat screen for Jalen Johnson who had the ball. And I froze it. 21 on the shot clock when he. sets that pick and then sprint out the other side to behind the three point line makes a three with 17 on the shot clock just okay so your point guard is screening randomly with 21 on the

shot clock for your power forward and then the power forward it's just this is he's such a perfect fit for how they play so yeah I mean like hawks I don't know if I don't remember what they're over under was but they might actually end up hitting the over all right michael pina anything else you want to get to no this was great um I hope I didn't step on my MVP column that's coming out next week. You might have. But no, we actually held it. I'm not going to lie.

We held it because, you don't want to put too much weight in one game, but the Spurs Nuggets game on Saturday could be very important. We'll see what happens. It's going to be a very interesting last week of the season for the MVP. My vote would go to Shay as of now, but I would if I had a vote. I would not make it now. I would not set it in store to see how it unfolds. Michael Pina from the ringer.com.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA season on Fanduel, it's all about the boost because game days mean your chance to boost your bet and make every play payoff. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight,

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Gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler. Call 1-88-7-8-9-77, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by New Era. You know how some eras of the NBA just hit different? As the official cap of the NBA, new era is bringing back to good stuff with NBA hardwood classics collection, vintage logos, timeless icons, killer throwback energy. No matter what hat style you prefer, new era. has them all. We're talking 59-50 fittets or adjustable styles like the 940A frames and 970s.

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Doing well, man. Happy to be here. First of all, we got a shout out Percy, the dog, because right before this, you were rushing the dog to the vet. Percy is my favorite breed of dog. Please tell people what is going on with Percy, and we got to give them some good vibes. Yeah, shout out my boy Percy, the Bernice Mountain Dog,

my favorite little buddy in the whole wide world. He's feeling a little under the weather. He got diagnosed with some pneumonia, so how to take him into the vet today. But they're going to do a good job. They're going to get them back to life. Put a couple IVs in his arm, and he'll be just fine.

Bernie's Mountain Dog is my number one ranked dog. We do not have a dog. My daughter is on year five of agitating for a dog. My wife and my daughter will want to smaller dog. I keep this is they, they are the sweetest. They look like they're smiling. They're beautiful dogs and they're just like the nicest dogs in the world. Absolutely. I mean, I love him. I didn't know what kind of dog I wanted when we first got a dog, but my girlfriend was like, no, we got to get this one right here. So I'm glad

we were very happy with our choice. This is my first dog I've ever had in my entire life. So it's been a, it's been a crazy experience, but I love him and I went training for the world. All right. Well, he's going to get better. We're going to we're going to get Percy back. And maybe his getting better will be a good omen for the heat end of season. Can we like, can we escape the play in? Are you tired of being in the play in? If you don't get out and you, if you go 5 and 0 down the stretch,

you have the tiebreaker against Philly. Like there's a, there's a chance. But are you, are you just tired of living this play in life? Yeah, man. I think, you know, I, you know, I understood the plan when at first initially was brought in. But, I mean, we played 82 games in the season for a reason. You know, I think if you're a top eight, you know, you deserve a playoff spot. I mean, I think, you know, as far as this tournament, I mean, I'm sure it's great for the fans and everything.

But, you know, what's the point of playing all these 82 games and if you still got to play another game to get in? But, you know, this is where we're at right now. And, you know, if that's where we're going to be this year, you know, we're going to do it. And we have a lot of success in the playing game. You know, obviously, we would like a secure, solidified spot. but you know, you got to deal with the cars that you're dealt with. More importantly than the heats play in fate, your younger sister, Gabriela is about to play in the national semifinals, the final four for UCLA.

I'm just saying, I looked at your schedule. They play tomorrow. You're off tomorrow. And if they win, they play Sunday. You're off both Sunday and Monday. Are you plot? Is this possible? Can you get where?

It's in, where is it, Phoenix or something? Yeah. Can you get there? It's definitely possible. I've literally bought my tickets today, be prepared. So they just need one win, and then, you know, I'm assuming they're going to play Yukon. You know, I know Yukon, South Carolina is going to be a good game,

but I really want them to have that Yukon rematch in the national championship. If you could take one skill from Gabriela and add it to your game, what would it be? Her shooting, for sure. She's been roping it this year. I give her a lot of credit. She's been working really hard.

at getting her shot right and perfecting it, and she's been shooting the hell out of the ball. It's here. All right. Miami Heat stuff. Year one raging success for you. One of the rookie of the year sort of front runners for a lot of the season. I think I voted you third in the end.

I can't remember. I forget all my ballots by the time I filed. Year two, high expectations, a little bit of a step back. And then here you come out in a brand new offense and explode and sort of like revive everything that everyone had hope for you. So but I want you to take the heat, the heat, Eric Spolster and Pat Riley,

they don't mince words, they don't mess around, they're honest to a fault. What is your exit meeting like after last season? What do they say to you? What do you remember from that meeting? Um, you know,

I just remember especially talking to Spow. He just gave me, you know, a list of things like a whole pretty much like report on all sort of things that he wanted me to work on for that summer. And, you know, I took that and ran with it. Literally everything that he talked about, you know, from awareness on defense to, you know,

making plays on offense. I really just took that into my summer. Kind of got out of Miami, went back home for the entirety of the summer, pretty much, and really just locked into everything that he was telling me to work on. Did you know, did he give you clues in the exit meeting that the offense was going to look so dramatically different? or was that something you learned like over the summer or when you reported to camp?

Like when did you know? Because it fits you like a glove obviously, but when did you know? Really kind of when I got back and was coming back into, I guess, you know, the facility they were talking about, hey, we're going to switch up the offense. We're thinking that this is going to be a lot more suitable for the team. And, you know, they were, I think they're absolutely right.

I mean, our offense has been really rolling this year. I think we're number one in pace and scoring. I don't know what we're at an efficiency, but I know we were like top five for a while at some point. So it was really cool. Shout out to Noah, who's been really helping us, you know, implement that. No La Roche.

Yeah, Noel Roche, trying to, you know, implement this offense and really give everyone a chance to really shine in their roles. Someone told me, I think it was one of your agents told me working on your handle was a big part of the summer plan. So take me inside that. Was there a new drill you tried? Was there some funky like Steph Curry?

style thing with tennis balls and strobe lights. Like, what did you do? Man, I just did the old school, literally just dribble, pound the ball, you know, 10 high, 10 medium, 10 low, and then, you know, and half guys guard me. Just really implemented into every part of my workout. I used to tell guys, like, I'm not a really big drill guy. My favorite thing to do and all the basketball was just a hoop.

You know, you get better by hooping, playing five on five. But I took, you know, the drill part of it a lot more seriously, especially with the ball handling. just trying to get it tight. So, you know, limit turnovers, limit guys, you know, forcing me into bad positions and being able to, you know, manipulate defenses with my handle. I know you played soccer pretty seriously and you played baseball pretty seriously.

How long did you, how long, how old were you when it was like, all right, I got to transition out of those and just do basketball full time. Like, because you've mentioned how both of them, both of those sports have helped you hone skills. are useful in basketball. But when did you sort of just focus exclusively on basketball? When I got to college, I was playing baseball pretty much all throughout high school, except my junior year I had to take a, because that was the biggest year for high schoolers

the summer. And I just knew I wasn't going to be able to commit fully to baseball because I had too much going on during the summer. But pretty much all of high school, I played baseball, soccer. It's something I just played for like in the summer. Like, you know, my neighborhood, we had a, bunch of kids. So our favorite thing to do was play soccer in the street. Like we were in a cul-de-sac. So one person's driveway was the goal. The other person's driveway was the goal.

And we would just play in the summer like all day long. The reason I ask is because now I'm, I'm a suburban loser dad. And youth sports is like a massive part of my life. And my dad is a youth sports coach and has been for like 50 years. And his like his cause cele like the hill that he's going to die on is kids specialize too early. No matter how good they are at one sport. playing multiple sports is so good for them, socially developing skills. And like all the parents, like hear this stuff from all the experts.

Like Sally Jenkins, a famous journalist just gave a talk at our local library. My wife was there and she talked about this. Everyone hears it and internalizes it. And then they can't execute it because they get caught up in the rat race of like, well, that person's got private coaching in this sport and is gone.

So like sell, tell people like why it was important for you to play different sports. Yeah, I think most important. importantly, it makes you miss the other sports. You know, you're playing basketball all year. You know, it's kind of hard to miss basketball if you play it all year. So, you know, you go away, you take a step back, you go play some baseball.

You're excited to play baseball. Okay, you get tired of it now. I'm excited to go back to basketball. I think kids can get really burnt out if you just give them the same thing over and over and over again. I know for me, I wanted to try new things. Like, you know, golf is one of my favorite hobbies now. You know, that's a big thing in the NBA. everyone likes to golf.

It's because you play 82 games in the year. You need some sort of other competitive avenue, another challenge, something that you're not used to doing all the time. And I think that's really important. Obviously, socially, you get to meet so many friends. Like some of my best friends were my baseball teammates. You know, I got a lot of friends with basketball,

but even like playing soccer as well, you meet so many different guys. And it's just, it's a lot of fun. I mean, I love playing different sports. I think it brings out the competitor and everybody. And so, yeah, I think that would be my argument to anybody wanting to specialize extremely early. It's not worth it. It really isn't.

What's the state of your golf game? My state of my golf game, man, I pretty consistently can break 100. So that's pretty good. You know, I broke in 90th handful of times. That's kind of going to be my goal this year. So I consistently break 90. because 95, shooting under 95 is, you know, okay for me, but I really want to get under 90 this summer.

Who else is good on the heat? Who plays? It's really just me, Drew Smith, and Pelot Larson. We're the, you know, three guys that like to golf. We're trying to get other guys involved, but for now it's just us three. The heat don't strike me as a golf-friendly organization. I don't know why they, it doesn't,

it doesn't jive with hashtag heat culture for some reason. Yeah, I mean, we have one of our shooting coaches actually a really good goal for Rob Boder. So we try to get out with him sometimes. We were actually just having a conversation about that. We've seen the Lakers doing golf outings and stuff like that. We think, you know, we should do that, implement that somehow with the heat. We got so many great golf courses out here in Miami. You need to find a way to make golf heat like you need to find a way to add violence or physical contact or some sort of like higher stakes.

It just doesn't, it doesn't jive. That's a mental, man. It's the mental. That's true. That's true. I'm not diminishing golf. Golf is super hard and very frustrating and you have to really, really commit to it to get any good. And you have to have mental stamina and physical stamina.

Like, if you walk 18 in the heat, it's not nothing. Like, it's, it's, anyway, speaking of heat culture, I have heard that you and your dad, who is also an athlete, everyone in the Hockas family is an athlete, targeted the heat, said, we feel like we're a heat family, we would fit the heat culture. Is that true? And like what led you to believe that? Man,

I was always a Laker fan growing up. But the heat was always like my second favorite team. I always loved Wayne Wade. You know, I was a big Shaq fan. So, you know, those early heat days.

But I don't, it's just something about, you know, the culture, Jimmy Butler was one of my favorite players growing up as well and seeing them do what they were able to do always underdog, always had a chip on their shoulder.

Something about that really just resonated with me. And, you know, I love the city of Miami. And I thought it would just be a great fit. And I think they thought the same. Here's a draft workout story I heard. You go to Miami, you do your workout. Normally there's like a nice spread of food for anyone who comes for the workout afterwards. And the heat couldn't provide that because their lounge was like being renovated.

And they were like, we have this like brown bag. with the sandwich in it, and they were like apologetic, and you were like, this is all I need. I love this. Is that actually true? Yeah, yeah. It was, I think I remember saying, like, everywhere else you went, they had like, you know, look at all these chefs, look at all this nice spread.

They got whatever you want. They'll make you cook you whatever. And then the heat, it was literally like a brown bag with like eggs and bread. Like, that was it. That was all it was. It got me fired up. I was like, this is what it's about right here. Did you meet Riley?

Do you get to talk to Riley at that during the process? Yeah, he was watching the workout. So I got to shake his hand for the first time, introduce myself. And, you know, yeah, this is how you say your name? And I was like, yeah. And that was about it. And I guess I left a good impression. Speaking of Jimmy Butler, I'm told he was very fond of you.

And this is the story I heard it. I wonder if it's true. And it speaks well to you as a teammate and just like a human. So obviously things go sideways last year between the Heat and Jimmy for reasons that have nothing to do with you. He gives this now famous or infamous press conference where he says he's lost his joy for basketball.

And I talked to someone who was in the car with him, like maybe even on the way back from that press conference. And everyone, the way I was told to me was like people with the Heat sort of didn't know, you know, it's like give him some time, give him some space. We're not sure what exactly is going on here. And Jimmy's phone rings. And the one guy who called him that night from the Heat

was you. And what I heard was the message from Jaime was like, hey, man, we can fix this. Like, come back to us. We got a good thing going here, like trying to get things back together. Is that true? I'm trying to remember.

I think, yeah, because I did call him after one of those, I think I did call him after one of those press conferences. I was like, hey, man, you know, like whatever problems you got, like I think we're here, you know, as your teammates were here. We want you to feel like, you know, we got your back type of thing.

So yeah, I do remember that. I don't know if it was right after that, but it was definitely something like that happened for sure. How much do you want to win sixth man at the year? Because it's one of those awards where I bet in your head, you have been in the past and you probably will be again someday a starter in the NBA. And you think of yourself that way. But this year you have not been a starter.

And you've been, I think the leading score in the league off the bench, five assists, five rebounds of game off the bench. She's like, that's a pretty rare numbers to hit coming off the bench. How badly do you want this award? Man, I don't know. I like, I want a lot of things more badly, I think, than individual accolades. Like, you know, for example, getting out of this plane, winning some games. But, you know, I always say, you know, you win, you get what you want.

You know, the individual accolades come with winning. So, you know, it's voted on. So I don't know, you know, who I got to sway or who I got to talk to. But, you know, at the end of the day, for me, it's more so about winning games and try to, you know, make something that lasts for a team. This is a team sport, not an individual game. It's not like tennis or golf. So, you know, for me, it's more about, you know, trying to win and trying to make this dance. Okay.

You were involved in one of the landmark games of the year, the decade, whatever. Bam out of bio scores 83. three points against the Washington Wizards. I went back and I looked at the fourth quarter of that game because I wanted to see what time I'm I up to in the fourth quarter? Does he take a couple shots where it's like, oh, it's earlier in the shocklock we get this to Bam. And you do, you miss a layup at one point.

And then you hit a corner three where they throw like three guys at Bam with 12 or 13 on the shot clock and he passes it to you. And I'm wondering, he's got like 70 or something at that point. I'm wondering if you even when you catch that ball are like, oh, man, it's like, Do I, normally I would shoot this? Is this the right play? Do I got to get this back to Bam? What was that like?

Well, that corner three, I think I had to shoot that one. He passed it. Like, I'm like, if he's going to pass it, like, I got to shoot it. But that was, man, what an incredible, incredible thing to be a part of. You know, it's something I'm going to tell my kids one day. I'm a part of history. Me and Bam, I think, combined for like 90-something points that came off. But in all seriousness, no, I was so happy for him.

I mean, he came out that. game firing. I mean, like, didn't miss. 30 in the first quarter. We were like, whoa, this is, this guy is on another level. And he had 40 at the half. And man, you know, I, everyone wants to say what they want, but that was some of the craziest defense I've ever seen played on a guy that hot. Like, they didn't want to send two until like the last, the fourth quarter. And they kept hacking them. I was like, well, I didn't know what the wizards were trying to do. I'm like, this is like so confusing, jarring. defensively. Everyone wants to talk about the

offense. Well, what about what they were doing defensively? I mean, they let the guy go one on one after he had 30 in the first quarter. So, you know, I was really happy for him to be able to get that accomplishment. We were all pushing for him. I mean, you know, even as a Kobe fan, you know, I let them know you guys

will see a little later. We did a little thing together, but I was like, you know, I was sure that Kobe's record got broken, but I was happy that you're the one that did it. When did, who made the decision, like, we're now going to start fouling the Wizards to prolong the game. Was that someone doing that in the moment?

Did Spow talk about that? Did you commit it? You're out of the game, I think. Yeah. No, I think I was out of the game. But the Wizards, they started fouling like other guys to not let them. That's true. So once that happened, we're like, all right, well, all bets are off.

Now, you know, you guys don't want to double triple team, the guy until the fourth, until he has 70 points. And now you guys want to file other guys so that they can shoot the free throws. And it's like, come on, guys. What are you doing? So we were like, all bets are off, man. Let's go get it, Bam. Obviously, Bam scores 83.

His mom comes down from the court. And the relationship between Bam and his mom is very special. She's around the team a lot. You'd probably know her very well. And then I was watching the video from the locker room. He gives a speech. Everyone comes in. And like, I don't know if you have other sort of personal memories from that night with Bam

or what you guys did after the game, if anything. Like, what take us inside the sort of post game of that moment? Yeah. I mean, we were all in shock. We were all in awe. Like, for a moment like that, but 83, like, that's such like an unattainable, impossible record for any basketball player. Like, you know, you think of, well, it's 100 points.

Like, maybe that was real. Maybe that wasn't. But we all saw Kobe score 81. And, you know, we've seen guys get closed, 60, 70, but we all thought, you know, 83 or 81 is almost impossible. And this guy comes in breaks. that we were just all in shock. Like, you know, I was, I had like, I don't even know, like,

this before you come, I was just, like, so happy for this guy. And, you know, for two days, I'm just, like, checking my phone, seeing, you know, all the highlights and what everyone's saying. Like, this is such a historic moment to be a part of. And, you know, I was just so happy for him because that guy deserved it. Your family comes from Mexico. You are very proud of your Mexican heritage. You had the flag superimposed on the court during the dunk contest.

are you gearing up for the World Cup this summer? What are your plans? Do you have plans? I assume you're going to be wildly into this. Yeah. World Cup, I'll probably be in Los Angeles. I'm really happy that it's, you know, in America. Definitely going to check out some games.

I want to also preface this by saying, you know, a lot of people, like, assume that I was born in Mexico. I was born in California. We're going to talk about that. Yeah, Camaro, California. My grandmother, she was an immigrant from Mexico, had my father. Obviously very proud of that.

It's, you know, just like every other American that ever came to America, you know, came, came from somewhere. But, yeah, very proud of that, very excited to see the World Cup here in the States and North America. And I can't wait. It's going to be fun. When Mexico plays the U.S. in friendlies and in these kind competitions, are you just neutral? Do you care? Yeah. Well, you know, as much as, you know, I love playing soccer.

and I love, you know, enjoying, I like watching. I'm not like, I shouldn't say I'm like the biggest diehard soccer fan. So I'm just in for a great game. You know, I have allegiance to both sides, but, you know, I'm all in for a great game. That's really what I look for. Kareem Lopez has declared for the NBA draft. He would be the first Mexican-born player to be picked in the first round. He's in New Zealand or has we been playing in New Zealand.

Have you spoken to him about the NBA? As he reached out to you? Like, what would that mean for Mexican? Obviously, there have been Mexico, Mexican players, you, Eduardo Nahara, others, but what is that going to mean? And do you know Kareem at all? Yeah, I mean, I know him a little bit. I think I've met him maybe one time in passing, maybe a long time ago. But I think that's going to be extremely huge.

I mean, for a native-born, you know, Mexicans who come to the NBA and really make a name for themselves and really represent the country, is going to be extremely. especially. I'm super happy for them. I'm super happy for the Latino community to just be able to have, you know, someone else in the league as well, representing and putting on for the Latin community. And, you know, I'm really proud

of that. You know, I always say that, you know, I might be one of, you know, the first, first round draft, but I knew that there was going to be many more to come after and he's just, you know, the next guy. And I hope, you know, there's, he's not the last either. There's going to be a whole line of

Latino players, especially from, you know, Mexico, South America that are going to come love the sport of basketball like I do. I mean, that's for me the most important thing. I just want to spread the game that I love to people. And, you know, hopefully they can follow in those footsteps. You're a big Dodgers fan, correct? I am. Oh, look at that. Game 7 of the World Series, probably in my top 10 all-time greatest games I've ever watched in any sport.

Where did you watch it? How did you handle the emotional ups and downs? The barely getting the guy out at home and all the like that. I mean, that's stressful. Yeah, I was watching it at Maestro's for my parents. My parents, they were, we were celebrating their, what was it, 20, I don't even remember, 20-something anniversary at Maestro's that we were all watching the game. I mean, the whole entire restaurant was watching the game as well.

We had it on our phones. they had it up like the bar TV. I just remember like it's just one of those things. We were in Los Angeles at the time too and just seeing everyone come together screaming, you know, enjoying the game all watching it together. It was,

it was a really special, special moment for short. Well, I'm a Mets fan. As much as it hurts me to see the Timmy trumpet entrance in Los Angeles, take good care of Edwin Diaz for us. He's a closer you can trust. And maybe maybe it'll be a little Mets Dodgers playoffs.

Who knows? Mets need to get out of their own. way a little bit right now. Yeah, I think the Dodgers. I think we're going to go for the three feet. I think it's coming this year. It seems that way. All right, Jaime Hawkins, Jr., thanks for some time. Best of luck to Percy, the Bernese Mountain Dog. We need him to get healthy. And best of luck down the stretch to the heat and hopefully in the play-in and the playoffs. Jaime Hackers Jr., great season. It's been super fun to watch. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, guys. Appreciate you having me. This episode is brought to you by Panda Express.

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Same-day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Available in select areas, terms apply. It's April. It's Metz Corner. Sean Fennessee, literally minutes before we popped on. I got a text from my Mets fan buddy, David,

fellow suburban loser dad here in Connecticut. just here's the whole text. New players, same result, shrug emoji, coming off. I mean, I don't know how to me, this was one of the more frustrating losses I have seen as a newly immersed Mets fan. Lindor forgot how many outs there were.

Lindor forgot that you could be picked off of first base when you're fiddling with your stupid oven mitt. They were one out of, maybe 0 out of a million with runners in scoring position, which was the problem. at the end of last year. And their defense was only okay. And Carson Benj got a lay jump on a blooper and the Mets lost in their three and three.

They scored 11 runs in the opening game. Everybody was happy. They have scored 12 games in the subsequent, or 12 runs in the subsequent five games. Yeah, look, I got to, I'm trying. I'm trying, Sean. There's 156 games left. We had the best record in baseball after 69 games last year. Okay.

And then everything changed. So there's a lot to, a lot to do, a lot left to do. but I don't feel great after six games. I feel great about the pitching is what we should feel good about. Yeah, I mean, let's do, should we do some positives before we dissect what's really going on here? Starting pitching looks good. Let's have at it.

The starting pitching has been excellent, superlative. Every single one of the five pitchers in the starting rotation through basically five innings and two runs or less, Freddie Peralta, I thought, looked terrific, even though Francisco Lindor was a little out to lunch yesterday. I thought Kodai Senga was throwing absolute gas. And if Kodai Senga is good, that's very exciting for us. Was he always, like he was hitting 99 and I was like, oh, okay.

I saw a data point that he crossed 97 miles an hour like 13 times last year. And I think he did it 13 times in Tuesday's game. So that was very encouraging. The staff looks good. I think the bullpen has also performed very well. We can have a Dickie Love Lady conversation if you want, but otherwise, Devin Williams has not been a disaster. In fact, one of his appearances was downright startling in terms of how dominant he was. And I don't know, the pitching is really, really strong, which is I think what makes so much of the start just so depressing and enervating in a classic Mets way that they're not able to perform in other aspects of the game,

especially given what the narrative was coming out of the end of last season and then the retooling of this team and now we're refined ourselves. You know, I was just telling you I was on vacation over the last few days with my family and couldn't help but steal away moments to watch games away from them, even in a restful moment in my life. And it just kind of brought down the vibe of an otherwise nice time. And you're right that it is only six games and I'm not overreacting, but it is a little depressing.

I'm just so tired of runner on third less than two outs and we can't just get him in. And these extra, yesterday, every extra inning, you start with the run on second. They very quickly got runners bases loaded with one out, couldn't score a run. Just give me a run. And this was the whole concede of the team is that probably going to have a little bit less like traditional home run power, but have a ton of guys who put the bat on the ball, put it in play. We're going to be a put in play team on both ends of the floor.

You put it in play against us. our defense is going to be really good compared to last year's cluster fuck. We put it in play. Good things are going to happen for us. We're not putting it in play. And it does like, well, Lindor has two triples, which is good. No home runs yet. I am like, have we, have we gone too far away?

Like do we, I'm very emotional watching the games. And I feel in my gut, man, it would be nice to think like this guy might get a double or this guy might get a home run. And I just don't feel that for anybody except for Soto. Well, we should probably talk about Bobauchette because I think a lot of these struggles revolve around him pressing at the beginning of his Mets career. And he's in this familiar position.

Like we've seen this before. I'm on a baseball text driver with a few guys. I have a few of them. And one of them is a Cubs fan, Tim. And he texted just me, the threat is just me and another Mets fan and him. And he texted us, how's the Bo Bichette era going?

So we're six games in and Cubs fans are being mean to me about Boba Chet. But, well, I mean, it's, it's, we saw this with Carlos Beltron. We saw this friend with Francisco Lindor. We've seen this be unrecoverable for guys like Jason Bay, you know, where someone comes in on a big contract, they feel a lot of pressure. Bichette is in a particularly unique scenario because he's making $42 million this year. In what is effectively a one-year deal, if he struggles mightily, he might actually pick up his player option and stick around. but you can just see that he really,

in that first series at home, he wanted to have a big moment, and he was incredibly undisciplined at the plate, which is weird for him, because he's such a skilled and resourceful hitter and such a bat-to-ball hitter. And so you could see right off the bat, like, oh, he's in his head a little bit.

And since then, I think it has really significantly spiraled. He did have one RBI single in the Cardinal series, but, you know, he is in the exact same position that Pete Alonzo was in last season, which is not to say that he's going to be a 50 home run, Bopper, it's that Francisco Indoor, and especially Juan Soto, get on base a lot.

And there are going to be a lot of opportunities for him to drive and runs. And honestly, if he were hitting 300 instead of 100 right now, the Mets might be 5 in 1 or 6 and 0. And if that were the case, we would be having a completely different pod right now.

And he just hasn't hit. And that's really what it comes down to. Other guys have had struggles. You know, Luis Robert got off to a really strong start. And then he's kind of slowed down a little Brett Bady had that great over the head nightmare O'Neill Cruz moment in game one since then he hasn't hit much. Mark Vientos did hit a double, but he hasn't played much. You know, Carson Benj had a home run in his first game and he hasn't hit much. So it's been a trying time, but I really do think, I don't want to put everything on Boba Chet,

but I think if we were in game 67 instead of game six and he were feeling more in the, in the settled in the season, we'd just be having a day. different vibe. If Bobauchette struggles for the entire season, this is going to be a long and depressing year, I think. I'm getting PTSD to, I think my most fervent moment as just an absolutely bad shit insane Mets fan was when they traded for Mike Piazza. And I'm trying to even remember, like, how did we learn about things like that in 1997, 1998? I mean, I was in college. And you would hear that like ESPN.com would have like rumors and it gets traded to the Marlins obviously for for a hot second right and and you know that the Mets were interested but like I just my brain

doesn't even remember what it was like to like did you have to just have sports center on in the background and something would happen and then you would learn about it but I remember learning about it and walking out of my dorm room in a haze just like no cell phone you know We had email, but it's like not, you weren't on all the time. Just walking around campus, hoping to run into another Mets fan to celebrate with. This is like just walking around being like, I can't believe the Mets got Mike Piazza, one of the 10 bestsers at baseball. I want to hug someone.

And then he was in a slump right away. He got booed immediately. And I just remember thinking, we're going to boo him out of town. He's a free agent. He's going to hate it here. The fans are being mean to him. He's slumping. And then it normalized and everything was fine.

But I'm like, I'm already trying to, can you just not boo him? Just try to get him going a little bit because I'm getting nervous. I mean, Boba's show was getting booze in game two. And that's, you know, that's New York. That's Mets fandom. I think you got to, you know this well and I know this really well. It's 40 years this year, man. It's 40 years since 1986.

There's a huge burden on this fandom and we feel really stymied. And one of the reasons why I think we're harder on players now is because on paper we should have everything. We have the wealthiest owner. We have a really smart front office, in theory, of course. We have homegrown talent and high-profile free agents. We have great facilities. We play in a very competitive division,

but in some cases, that should elevate. That has elevated the Yankees for decades. So, you know, it's depressing, and so what happens is we tend to overreact emotionally. I'm not a person who booze players. That's not really a thing that I do. I don't really think that that does much for you. I do get depressed about the state of a certain player.

We're watching Edwin Diaz right now on the Dodgers, which is hard to watch. But I remember watching Edwin Diaz at Dodger Stadium get blown up five years ago and feel about as low about him as a player as I ever have, feeling like a genuine personal depression because of what a fiasco that trade was that brought him here. And it turned around. and he turned out to be a terrific mat, one of the best clothes, maybe the best closer in franchise history.

And the same could very well happen for Boba Schatz starting tonight. It's just a bummer so far. You got to trust the track record, right? Obviously, I'm not going to be like, oh, now Boba Chet suddenly sucks in the prime of his career after six bad games. So it'll be fine. Offense will probably be all right.

And if the pitching continues to be good, then, yeah, an airbender has been good, and Luke Weaver's been good. and, you know, I've everyone other than your guy, Dickie Love Lady, he's been pretty solid coming out of the pen. I will say, you mentioned Diaz. I love the S&Y broadcast. We all do.

I think week three of the Major League Baseball season is the end of, like, I don't need you to be like, all right, Pete Alonzo just hit a home run in Baltimore, and Brandon Nimmo just did this. And seeing the Timmy trumpet entrance in L.A. was like an act of aggression against my soul. I just don't need to see it anymore. Good luck to all of them.

Let's move on. Yeah, I was listening to the Ringer Fantasy football show this morning and they were talking about Diaz's entrance and the live trumpeter. And they were wondering, was this the first time that Diaz had ever had a live trumpeter? Which of course is not true and just made me feel so low as a Mets fan. Like, that started in New York. That meme, that theme, that dominance all started in New York. You know, that obviously was the biggest blunder, I think, of the offseason,

was losing him, knowing that the team wanted to retain him. And so that's been difficult to see him go to. I wouldn't even describe the Dodgers as our rivals. I would just describe them as the daddies of Major League Baseball right now. But that's tough to swallow. The Alonzo and Nimmo thing, let's talk about it, okay? Okay. I ultimately was okay with both of those guys moving on.

I still am. the double shot of losing Diaz and Alonzo in a very contained period of time did hurt a lot. And I do think Alonzo, I think, is going to be really good this year and probably next year too. I would worry about the back half of that contract as I have taunted Mallory Rubin a little bit. The Nimmo thing is interesting.

I don't know how much thought you've given this, but Marcus Simeon thus far, who has traded straight up one to one for Nimmo to the Rangers, has played good defenses and has been abysmal at the plate. abysmal. And I think it's not unreasonable to wonder if he is cooked because he is coming off of consecutive sub-700 OPS seasons.

And if he is, that is like a huge drag on the lineup if he can't hit it all. So what's the alternate reality? We keep a Nemo. He plays left, Soto plays right. Benj plays center or we just get Robert and Benj's in red. And then we need a second baseman, whoever that, who's playing second base?

Well, I mean, there's a Brett Beatty could be playing second base right now. I like Brett Brady. That's certainly an option. I think it's hard to know what the Jenga Tower would be if you didn't do that particular trade. And they did that particular trade for a reason, right? Because Brandon Nimo has five years and $100 million left on his contract. And Simian only has two years. And I think it's either $40 or $50 million left on that deal.

But if it were only one year with Simian, you'd be like, okay, halfway through the season, you're effectively turning him into a utility infielder. But he's got a whole other year. attached to this. And this is a team that's built to win now with a possible work stoppage looming. And so if that guy is hitting seventh or eighth in your lineup every day, and he's not a major league baseball player anymore, just in terms of what he can do with the plate, it's very problematic because you're also balancing breaking in Benj, who we don't know which direction he's going to go. Like, I hope it works out. He obviously had an incredible spring training. We barely even talked

about his spring training, you and I, but he played so well, he hit so well. He's just going to have ups and downs because he's a rookie. So it's very risky for a team like that. this to be trying to navigate a 23-year-old super prospect and a 37-year-old guy who's really on, not the back nine, but like the back two. So I'm really worried about that. And look, Nimmo was always a productive hitter in New York. And he's probably going to be one in Texas. And it's going to be hard to watch when he's hitting 270 with a 350 on base and he hits 25 home runs. That's going to be hard to accept. Maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe he hurts his foot. Maybe the Planta Frasias comes back.

Maybe he slips and falls down the stairs. I have no idea. But I started getting that pit in my stomach, thinking about Brandon Nimmo's three or four win season that could be coming versus Marcus Simeon slowly rotting at second base in New York. Mata update, daughter update. Simeon is the new Cedric Mullins already. She's out.

She hates him. He gets out all the time with runners in scoring position. So that's, and look, hard to blame her. It's not going great. I'm glad he's a good fielder. I just like, again, if there's a runner on third and zero or one outs, can you just hit a sack fly? Could you just not strike out?

Just hit a chopper. Just get the run in. That's all I'm looking for. It's my actually, I think it's the moment in sports that has always angered to be most as a fan is the runner on third in less than two outs and we don't get them in. Just get them in. Just give me a run. This is the minimum we can do.

I totally agree. I mean, I grew up hearing my dad growls about that. And so I have clearly adopted a very similar tone when you watch the sort of like the fundamental baseball go badly. And that's like a fundamental thing is get the ball up in the air when you've got a runner in that position. You know, the team has been dreadful to start the season with runners in scoring position. Last year, statistically, the team was third or fourth in baseball

with runners in scoring position. But that stat is insanely skewed because you may recall last, last August, they hit 285 with runners and scoring position, which was second best in the league that month. They hit 50 home runs that month. They also went 11 and 17

because that was the month in which they're pitching completely imploded. And the reality is they were not a top five with runners and scoring position team throughout the rest of the season. In fact, they were barely top 10

most of the year despite having a $350 million payroll. And they have struggled over the years doing this. It's been different ownership, different regimes. Every team feels this way about their team with runners in scoring position because you are more likely to remember the moments in which your team did not come through than the moments in which they did come through. But this is very, it's situational. It's managing. It's preparation. It's all these things. I understand that it's a noisy

stat, but I have felt this as a concern for a very long time, especially over the last five years with the team. And it's really weird to watch guys like Bichette, like Jorge Polanco, whose name we haven't mentioned yet, like Beatty, like increasingly professional hitters, many guys who were brought in because of their statistics with runners in scoring position, just look a little lost or a little stymied. Anthony Dicomo from MLB this morning shared the chase rate stats for with runners in scoring position. and they were alarming for the Mets and it just seems like a very over-anxious team right now and I'm sure it'll change.

We've said this like five times already, but it just sucks to sit through this experience of seeing a team that kind of can't get out of its own head in the first week of the season. So you mentioned Chase rate. I love all these new stats. Now they'll throw up conversion rate runner at third

less than two outs for a particular batter. I want that set every time and I want to shame the people whose conversion rates are too low. But the king of the chase is Alvarez. And like if you throw that dude to slide or low and outside, he's going to swing at it. It's going to be two feet out of the strike. So he's going to swing at it.

But here's my question. And I don't know enough about the Mets or baseball or anything yet to answer this. My daughter loves Torrance. It's one of her guys. And so she's very happy that Torrens and McLean are a little pair. And Torrens and Senga appear to be a pair. I don't know if that's because he can catch the ghost fork better or whatever. I think so.

For a team that needs some pop, like, is can Alvarez just play every day? I don't know. Can he DH and can he catch more? Like, do we need to play him every day? Is he not durable enough to play every day? Because Torrance can't hit. God bless him. He's a great defense catch.

He can't hit it all. Alvarez has some fucking pop. Like, he might have the second most pop and his bat on the whole team right now. I don't, I mean, like, could we just play him 150 games? I mean, the answer is no. I think he does have maybe the most pop on. the entire team short of Juan Soto. If you look at that home run

he hit in the first game, I mean, that was an absolute tank. That was thrilling. And honestly, him pimping a home run is one of the best things about the Mets. Well, first of all, part of the pimping is the arm's sleeve matching the cleats every game is just, it's

going to get him some goodwill with my daughter eventually. Yeah, he's got star-like qualities, even though he's been inconsistent. The reason he can't play 150 games is because he's prone to get hurt. And catchers obviously absorb more small injuries over the course of a season. And he's also had some really weird freakish injuries

where he's been hit on the hand with balls and he's had balls fouled back and injured himself. And he had the handmate injury that Lendor is currently rehabbing from right now. So he's had some issues. I think it'd be nice to see him hitting in 130 games per year. Him D-Hing is interesting because they have this really weird roster right now,

Zach where... It is a puzzle every night. You know, we've had two Jared Young starts so far this year. I'm not sure I had that my bingo card.

Yeah. So because of that, you've got a lot of strange bats. I think Mendoza tends to really look at the matchups and then I sometimes think when he's making the lineup card he overthinks them

or the front office is overthinking it as they work in tandem. Alvarez, D-Hing is a little scary but also he's just a very hot and cold player. And when he goes into big slumps, you look down the lineup,

and you're like, okay, so it's Alvarez, Simeon, Benj, and those three guys are cold, then it just kind of feels a lot like it felt last year, where 6, 7, 8, 9 were really weak, and so the team was top-heavy, and it just feels like a top-heavy club again. After game one, I texted my brother and my dad, and I just said, and I might have sent you a similar thought.

I was like, this lineup is going to be an absolute bitch to pitch to. They're going to be so tough, because all of these guys work counts, they see a lot of pitches. I think they saw, like, 180 pitches from the Pirates in game, game one. And since then, it's just been the opposite, where they've been undisciplined, and they all kind of are slumping and simultaneously.

And so I hope I'm proven right after game one. And I do think that that is ultimately where they're going to revert to. But Alvarez is a guy who, no matter what happens, is always going to be a little bit undisciplined as a hitter. He's never going to be a 380 on base percentage guy. That's not really his game. That's not why he's in the lineup. He's expected to hit for power, opposite field power.

So, you know, I'd love to see him get hot tonight. I like Robert so far. I like Polanco so far. And the other big daughter update is very happy that Benj shaved his mustache, was not a fan of the Benj mustache and thought it was ugly and a big mistake. We're bearing the lead here. And we'll end with this. Where are you?

on the Soto Lindor everyone is zaprooting their high fives their lockers have now been separated

people are speculation is running wild Buster Olney was on ESPN radio as I was driving around opining on the state of

their relationship do you care about this at all Buster only had something bad to say about the Mets surely you jest well I mean

look I love Buster only so I don't I don't know he was saying look he doesn't know he didn't have any insolence he's pretty confident they're not like buddies. He's not sure that it really matters.

Like the classic sort of like 26 players, 26 cabs, whatever the saying was kind of thing. But it is interesting. Like, Mets fans are kind of obsessed with this. Like there are a lot of YouTube videos breaking down handshake routines and facial expressions. And did he call Soto right away? Did you not call Soto right away?

Like there's just so it's it's kind of NBA-ish, honestly, like breaking it down. I don't know what to make of it. It does seem like they're obviously not best of friends. It doesn't seem like they're close. They seem like two very different kinds of people. I think that the rank speculation about whether or not that is deleterious to the team's fortunes is a little bit worthless because there are plenty of teams that have been great that had guys that did not get along at all. The example that you hear New York sports talk hosts reference all the time is Reggie Jackson and Thurman Munson in the 70s.

And there are many examples of that over the years with big personalities. The thing that the conversation that kicked up after game one, and even I think was taking place a little bit during spring training is this feels like Juan Soto's team now. And Soto had a good first season. He wasn't perfect. He had some struggles, but he had a very good year. He's going to be here longer, presumably, than Francisco Lindor.

And he is, by most metrics, this superlative player. And so the idea of the team taking on more of his personality, especially as mainstays like Alonzo and Nimmo and McNeil move on, and he gets to kind of like build a culture around him on the team, probably has Lindor feeling a little wanting. The Lindor stuff in yesterday's game was mystifying. That's like Javelle McGee level. What the fuck is going on, man?

That was really like you must have, did you get some bad news? that morning because to be completely checked out on a groundball double play opportunity in the first inning and then be picked off in the bottom half of that inning, he just felt completely detached from what was going on with the team. You know, he took accountability. He always does after the game and he talked about it, but he looked like his dog had just died and we're in game six.

So that was bizarre. And Soto has also not been perfect this season, but he's hitting. He's doing what he always does. I mean, he's hitting for power. He hasn't hit in every big spot, but his slash line is the only one on the team right now other than Louis Robert that looks exciting. I have 1,000% faith in Soto as a hitter.

Every at bat is must watch, must watch television for me. It's just great theater. What do you think? Do you think it's a problem? Do you think it's like this is the sort of thing that is actually an issue? I'm monitoring it just because of the bizarro Lindor game from yesterday. I don't really think it's an issue.

Baseball is like a kind of a team sport and also kind of an individual sport. And I don't really think they need to be friends. We all have these ideas as I did when I was a kid that all these guys are hanging out and going out to dinner. And it's just like you're in a club and you're just hanging all the time. And it's not like that. So I don't. But, you know, like I'd like, or did not have games like he did yesterday. And I'd like him to hit a home run at some point.

All right, you got to go do the big picture. The Mets are going for a four game series in San Francisco, who's not been good. so far this season. Hopefully they rebound. And I am monitoring. The other thing is when the Mets season went bad last year, as it often, as is the case for teams who seasons go bad, they sucked on the road. And so like I would like to see them establish a baseline of competency, like, hey, we actually travel okay. Even when they were playing well, they were like a juggernaut at home and just okay on the road. So one and two on the road with both of the losses being bad is not great. So four game series on the road, let's get at least two.

Can we get a split? Can we just do that? You think, too, is that what you're going for? Because it's not, the Giants are not a great team, but we are facing Robbie Ray and Logan Webb, which is just not ideal. And so, you know, two and two, you know, then you're five and five through ten, which is not a nightmare or anything.

No, I'll take a split. But this was supposed to be a way to get fat at the beginning of the year. Pirates, cards, giants, we looked at two weeks ago and thought, oh, exciting. Maybe this is a way for this team to get hot early and start building.

And now we're like, okay, I will split with the Giants. I'm like, what? The Giants have a college baseball manager running their team right now, who's never coached in the majors. So it's just that's, we really lowered our standards for our $380 million ball club. We were facing two very good pitchers. So that's part of it. And we did, we did chase skeins after two thirds of an inning, which was exciting.

Which was like crazy and very exciting. So we'll see. All right, Sean Fenton, we got the big picture with Amanda as always coming up today. We got some, it's going to be a fun one. you told me what the movies are. And you were on the rewatchable. With CR month, concluding with LA Confidential,

which I can't wait to listen to because the clips were delightful. Sean Fennacy, let's go Mets, baby. Let's go Mets. Thanks, Zach. All right,

that's it for today's episode. Thank you to Michael Pina. Thank you to Jaime Hockes Jr. Thank you to Sean Fennacy. Thank you to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan. As always on production, thanks to you all for listening to

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