The Zach Lowe Show - Haliburton on His Return, Preseason Thoughts, and Most Intriguing Players!

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Zach and Nekias Duncan start things off by sharing their biggest takeaways from the preseason so far and revealing the players they find most intriguing. Then, Nick Friedell joins Zach to explain the Warriors' game plan for this season and provide some updates to their extension discussions. Finally, Tyrese Haliburton comes on to recap his recovery and thoughts on the Finals, his rivalry with the New York Knicks, and what he’d like to do in the WWE. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (1:27) Nekias Duncan joins the show! (9:20) Random preseason observations (34:10) Rapid-fire thoughts (37:52) Most intriguing players (58:35) Nick Friedell joins the show! (1:07:09) Should we expect a Podziemski extension? (1:16:38) The Warriors should probably just ride this out (1:21:22) Tyrese Haliburton joins the show! (1:24:16) What’s different about you from when you were at your peak? (1:34:11) On the team's differences at center (1:40:30) On the Knicks rivalry (1:42:35) WWE wishlist (1:45:28) Does this team have a hunger to it? Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Nekias Duncan, Nick Friedell, and Tyrese Haliburton Producers: Jonathan Frias, Billy Gil, and Mike Wargon Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Create a Personalized Price Plan® today. https://www.statefarm.com/lp/football/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the Zach Lowe show, preseason basketball is here. There's a lot of news. Tyresease Halliburton is back. There's some injuries. There are some early hot takes and observations. Nikaius Duncan, I know he's mainlining preseason basketball the same way I am. We're just going to go back and forth. Random preseason observations and takes.

Things we've noticed, things that just were putting in our back pocket. I know it's only preseason. But that could be interesting for the regular season two. or, oh, that's kind of alarming for the regular season two. And then we pick each of us our single, most intriguing player for the upcoming NBA season. Then Nick Friedel is here to talk about the Warriors. It doesn't seem great. Is it better than we think it is?

What's going on inside the Warriors is Pajemski can get a new deal? Lots of hype about Yaxel Lendaborg. I like him, too. We talked to Nick about that. And then, yeah, Tyrese Halliburton came back last night and looked pretty damn good. The Pacers looked good. Guess who's here to talk about it? Tyrese Halliburton coming on the Zach Lowe show to talk about everything that's happened since game seven of the 2025 finals should be a fun conversation.

That's all coming up next on the Zach Lowe show. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. The NBA is back. Preseason basketball is happening. There are already some fun on-court trends. There are some actually important injuries, unfortunately, that we got to talk about. Tyrese Halliburton is back. Nikaius Hulliburton is back.

If there's anyone I know who is watching some of this preseason action, maybe focused on the Southeast Division, maybe not, along with your WNVA work, it's you. So we're going to nerd it up about early season, not even early season, preseason trends. How are you this morning? I am doing well. There has been so much basketball this year that I am soaking in and enjoying. I'm also trying to make sure I stay sane as we now have the W playoffs mixed in with all the preseason things that are happening. So lots of note taking, a little bit of sleep, but we're having fun. Let me tell you, you're catching me on a good day.

I'm in a good mood today for two reasons. Would you like to hear them? Yes, I would. Number one, Tyrese Halliburton played his first game since game seven of the 2025 finals in Oklahoma City. We all know what happened. And the Pacers are back. I know you watched the first half. I watched the first half.

Obviously, he's a little rusty. Obviously, he's kind of fueling his way into the game. He's not forcing anything. There weren't any stepback threes, really, and all the Tyrese like, highlight stuff. But the passing, the vision, the off ball movement, all the stuff that he immediately injects into their offense was there. I thought his movement looked pretty crisp and his ability to change directions on a dime looked pretty crisp. The shot is the shot. It's always going to be there. I thought it was a super encouraging first step. Pascal Seaccombe

was playing so hard that it almost made me uncomfortable. I was like, dude, chill. I know you've been waiting to play meaningful basketball for a bit now. But I thought the Pacers, immediately look like a team. Like, this is a team that knows each other. And it was a nice reminder, like, we're here. The East is loaded, but like, we're here. We're going to have some Kings to work out with the spacing and Zubots and the bench. And is it Jarrett Walker?

Is it who's the backup five? Oby Toppin looked great. But I'm in a good mood because the Pacers looked ready to go. Yeah. I think you nailed it. They looked more like themselves in this preseason game, which is as much as you can take from preseason action. Tyrese immediately injecting a level of organization into

his offense, I think, was good. I think the biggest thing for me, as he works, to knock off some of the Russ is just going to be how often is he driving, how deep into the paint is he driving? And so a little bit of a mix back there, understandably so in his first game back, but you saw when he was able to generate paint touches, the whole breath of the offense opened up. He could still get to those push shots if necessary. He has to lay dump downs.

He has to kick out passes in there. And then when the ball is taken out of the basket, like he is just immediately getting the ball up there. Like the pace is right there again. And so I'm excited for him, happy for him personally. And then on top of that, he just makes this Pacer team make a lot more sense. I'll also just sprinkle in while we're here. Jerez Walker continued to raise the brow for me.

Fun preseason for him so far. Six times of the first half, I think. And clearly they've decided, we're going random preseason observation. So here's one. They've decided that he's jumped over Ben Shepard in the bench hierarchy. I think that's a smart decision. And his playmaking is why. He looked like he, look, we'll see what the shot making and the decision making and the defense,

but he looked like the right upside bet to take like whatever, the eighth, ninth, but that guy's going to play 15, 18 minutes a night. And I think as you get into some of the smaller lineups, we're going to have him on the floor with OB topping with Pascal. Seacom, like just having a little bit more size and still maintaining some utility offensively is going to be important for them. So I like what I have seen so far. I just want to see more preseason action to see what it looks like when the game start to count.

but stock up for J.S. Walker for me right now. Let me tell you a story, Nikias. Fall of 1996, little Zach Lowe, just turned 19 years old, sophomore year of college. I'm in a dining hall in college watching game one of the American League Championship series

between the Yankees and the Orioles. My match that year, 71 and 91, disastrous season, but we were coming. We had some young pitching. We had some interesting players. Todd Hungley was starting to become a thing. I was a little upset about how the season went. And obviously, I hate the Yankees.

The Yankees hadn't won the World Series in a long time. It was a great era of bad Yankee baseball that was ending. Game one, you may be too young to know the name, Tony Tarasco, game one of the American League Championship Series. Almost 30 years ago to the day, Tony Tarasco was about to catch a mundane Derek Jeter fake home run to right field. one of many fake home runs, Derek Jeter would sneak over the wall in his career.

And then a fan, Jeffrey Meyer, reached over the wall, caught the ball, stole it out of Tony Tarasco's glove. The Orioles never recovered. There was no replay. The stupid umpire, Richie Garcia got the call completely wrong, home run. Yankees win the game. The gluttonous fans rejoice.

And 30 years later, oh, baby, I hope everyone in that state, felt a wave of joy pulsating in their bodies when Anthony Volpe hit a home run over the wall, when yet another gluttonous fan couldn't help himself and reached over. It would have been it. It would have been a hit. It would have hit the wall. It was not going to be an out. I hope they all had what I had when Croatia tied the World Cup against Portugal and the

refs screwed them. I hope they had that joy. And then it was ripped out of them because this time, 30 years later, the fan and was not rewarded. The Yankees were not rewarded. They are going home having been swept by the Tampa Bay raise. I was laughing this morning in my house telling what happened to my daughter who is asleep and my wife who doesn't care. I was laughing like the million dollar man, Ted DiBiase, just cackling to the point that my family thought, is there something wrong with him? I've never seen him like this before. Am I a jealous bitter? Mets fan? I am. Am I jealous that the Yankees have

won far more than the Mets? I am. Am I angry that the Mets had a higher payroll than the Yankees this year and failed and the Yankees were in the playoffs? I am. Would I take a sweep in the National League Division Series? I would. All of that said, boy, am I in a good mood today. I hope Tony Tarasco, wherever he is, I don't know where he is, is having a great day. I hope Jeffrey Meyer, wherever he is having a bad day. And the rays are moving on. So I'm in a good mood today, Nikai. I said, that kid in the dining hall, that 19-year-old kid, I was really upset. I was unhappy. I said, I could feel it. I can feel the world shifting back to the Bronx in a way I don't like after all these years of Mel Hall losing and Don Manningly losing all this.

And it did shift. They won a lot of World Series. And it was a nice little karma. Karma waited 30 years, but it came. You know, I am glad that you are in a good mood. I didn't expect this to be the reason. but if someone to listen to the pod, that probably should have been, that should have been teed off to me. I am not a big baseball guy. I have a lot of Yankees, mutuals, oddly enough. And so, like, seeing their tweets come through the timeline

in the midst of all the basketball stuff that was happening last night. It hurts. It hurt. Oh. I was like, oh, nobody's having a good time right now. And I can't even console because you have dream liberty going down to the wire. And then eventually Aces Valky's Valky's was crazy in that fourth quarter.

But, you know, I love this for you. I'm glad the younger version of your, yourself got a little comeuppance with the way things happen. Am I proud of any of this? I'm not, but it's who I am. And, you know, self-witness is important. The Brewers are now our team in the low household. But anyway, okay, we're just going to bounce around.

Preseason is what it is. Some teams play their real guys. Some teams don't. The first half of these games is very different than the second half. You can't read anything into it, but you can just like backpocket some fun stuff for like, I'm going to remember this when the regular season starts. And sometimes the preseason matters. Like the 14-15 warriors kind of announced themselves in the preseason is like,

this is a completely different animal. Watch out for us. So let's just go back and forth. Random preseason observations that are interesting, good, bad, whatever. You can lead off. Give me something you've noticed. Okay. I will start with a little bit of propaganda.

I am super intrigued by this Memphis Grizzlies team. I think this is. You're talking to the right guy. I've been driving the Memphis Grizzlies playing bus for a few weeks now. But so I'll let you sing it. Go ahead. So we are a line. When we had you on the podcast earlier this summer, just talk about things that brought us joy.

I think we both mentioned some Memphis Grizzlies related things in the midst of all the losing that they did. And so getting into this preseason action, they have that opening game against the Atlanta Hawks. And the offense is well spaced. The tempo is fantastic. They are moving Camboos around the board. Ty Jerome looks fantastic.

They're cycling guys in and out. They're maintaining their full core pressure defensively. So the tempo continued to be up. And then they just continue to flow. they can just dives you up in so many different ways with so many different players. I ended up tweeting it out, Perkling the Glass, it was like 115 offensive rating in the half court for the Memphis Grizzlies in their opener, which again, it is preseasoned all the caveat side.

I saw that game and I saw what the offense looked at. It's like, yeah, this is why I'm high on them. Earlier this morning, I am watching the Grizzlies Magic game. And the Orlando Magic were not very kind, particularly in the first quarter against the Memphis Grizzlies. Like we are also going to do the full court pressure thing. We are going to be super physical with you off the ball. We're going to mix in some unders.

We're going to mix in some switches. Let's see what your offense looks like. And when the shots aren't falling, it could look pretty bad, which also some fun stuff happening on the Orlando side. Maybe we get there. But it was cool for me as someone that is intrigued by this Grizzlies team and ultimately high on this Grizzlies team for them to have this kind of test in back-to-back games, where you still, what it looks like when it's working,

free-flown against a Hawks team, that was good last year. And then you get this Orlando team with a bunch of sides. size, like you're seeing Tristan de Silva on tie Jerome. It's like, okay, what does that look like if you put more size on tie since he's going to have a lot of ball handling responsibility? Good test for them. My intrigue remains. I guess I'll leave it there, so I don't get too yet me.

But keep an eye on the Memphis Grizzlies. This is where I'd start. I mean, I couldn't be more excited about Camboozer. He's starting at the four. The matchup with Bencaro was awesome last night. He guarded Franz as well. He's playing a little bit at the five. And let me tell you, he had a moment where he was at the five at Nick Vucovich, who

was hitting threes was on him. And he, it was like immediate barbecue chicken. I'm taking you off the bounce and, and one for Camboozer. I'm super excited about the kind of next layers unpealing and Cedric Cowards on ball game as a secondary pick and roll guy. I guess my worry about the obvious worry about the Grizzlies is they probably don't have a top 50 player in the league on their team, depending on how Camboosur does this season. And if Zach Edie is healthy, Zach He played last night. He's been massively impactful when he plays. We'll see how much he plays.

He completely changes their team. I guess my worry is, A, you know, they're going to win a lot of games with depth. And so they're going to look really good in the preseason in the third quarter against the other team's backups. When their backups are playing the other team's backups, I don't know how much that carries over. I'm a little worried about their passing in overall and in their starting five. Like, Camboozer is an awesome passer. and they'll get places with Jalen Wells and Cedric Howard attacking closeouts, but I'm a little worried with Ty Jerome, who I really like and will score the hell out of the ball.

I'm just a little worried about the collective passing, but I remain optimistic about the gris. I think that's fair. And I think just in terms of the scoring, like one of the things popped from me early, it is Jalen Wells in the start lineup instead of Jeremy Grant, which I should have figured that was the way they're going to go just to get some lineup bouncing going to make sure the second unit has a level of punch to it. So we'll see how long they stick with that. I don't think the passing thing is unfair.

I think that is where kind of their spacing principles and the way they scheme things and how quickly they move. I think the theory is, would be attacked so quickly, and you have so much ground to cover as a defense that we can open up easier passing reads for everyone. And so as long as you're able to maintain whatever advantage they get, they should be okay,

but I do think that is a fair criticism to have. My turn. I watched the Bulls' first preseason game last night. Okay. I'm just putting this in my back pocket. The floor was really open, for Caleb Wilson and Mattis Buzellis to do their sort of second side slicing diagonal attacks with Jalen Smith starting at center as a real stretch five and Nick Claxton who's injured

not playing. Obviously there's a defensive cost and I have Nick Claxton, you're just not as good, you're less switchy, all of that. But I'm just like, just already I'm putting it in my back pocket of like, Caleb Wilson will see how the shot comes. Buzellis will see how the shot comes. Giddy, I think, is probably kind of a done deal as a shoot. I don't know if it's going to be off to dribble three is ever going to be a plus and not a minus for him. The captain shoots fine. He's always open.

I just, they're all downhill attacking players with size and shaky slash unproven jumpers. I just like the way everything looked with a stretch five in there. And I'm sure the Bulls have noticed that too. Jalen Smith was great off the bench last night. It was last year, rather. I'm just putting a pin in that. That's all.

No, I think that part is fair. Like I want to dig into it. that one in particular. But I think broadly speaking, the Bulls were a team last year. You look at the shot profile, we get to the rim a ton. We're going to get a bunch of threes up. We're not going to take mid-range shots. Maybe to the chagrin of Montas Muzellis,

who may want to experiment a little bit more inside the ark, just in the middle of the floor. But either way, like very structurally sound in times of the shot location at the very least, they're going to play with tempo. And so if you do open the floor in lineups with Jaila Smith at the 5, that is more room for Josh Gid to get downhill, which quietly got a little bit better dealing with contact last year. the 14-foot floaters or push shots

turned into 11-foot floaters and push shots. So you continue to map out that progress. Caleb Wilson is going to get downhill. Montauss-Buzzis is absolutely going to get downhill. And so the bones are there structurally. And if you get any kind of internal growth, it's going to be an offense that annoys defenses that aren't ready for them at the very least.

So I appreciate the shout. Your turn. I guess why we're talking about fun offenses and spacing in general, one, a quick get well soon to use of lurkage. But... Okay, well, let's not... Are you going to continue with the Jazz? Because I want to hit Nerkich for sure.

Oh, yeah. I'll go to here. We can hang with there. But I'll get well soon and the news of Nurchage. We'll circle back to that front. But getting to see what this Utah Jazz offense looks like, I already was pretty high on it heading in just because of the stuff they run, the way that we'll hardly space as guys,

particularly the bigs, kind of convert things if you need to. Seeing this with Darren Peterson, where he compared it to Summer League, where he just had the ball in his hands a lot to now. Here's Tiante George initiating. We can let Laurie have the, ball a little bit. Use of Nirkings before going down. You have some of the high post,

high post hub stuff. I like the fit in the context for Darren Peterson. And in general, I think this Utah offense is going to be very good. Like, they just have so many things to poke at. As an offense, they have so many skilled guys, so many mismatches they can create. I'm excited to watch the offense.

Other end of the floor is going to stress me out. And I think starting the preseason against the Denver Nuggets of all teams will probably accentuate some of the problems that they're going to have on that front, both in terms of how they can match physically and from a size perspective, how well they can end possessions. And if U.S. of NERC is out, I have even bigger questions about the rebounding for Utah. But offensively, at the very least, they're going to put points on the board.

You nailed it with NERC. Look, if he misses four weeks, which is his reevaluation timetable, tack on another week, just because that's how it usually goes. It's like 12 games because we're still well into the preseason. It's not the end of the world. Like, we always overreact to these short-term injuries. These teams just find ways to win random games that maybe it looks like a bad matchup on paper. The Jazz have a lot of talent.

I'm with you. I think offensively, this team is going to be really good. Defensively, you lose his size, you lose his rebounding, and all of that for a team that doesn't have a great defensive infrastructure other than Triple J. And like everyone else, I'm curious to see, you know, who is actually guarding the elite ball handlers on the other teams because Darren Peterson is not ready. Keanti George isn't ready. And this gives them an opportunity, I think, to experiment with, hey, how does it look if we either start a smaller lineup? Like maybe Ace Bailey slides into the starting five.

Maybe Josh Okie slides into the starting five instead of just replacing NERC with Jackson Hayes or whatever. And like we're committing to big ball, which I think is how they want to play with NERC. This gives them a chance maybe to see like, hey, maybe does it make more sense for us to start a wing with some defensive size and acumen. I mean, Ace Bailey's not quite ready for that yet, but he's interesting. But I agree with you, the costs on defense and just the, the facilitation you lose in the high post and how Markinen works off the ball

and how Triple J works off the ball. It's a meaningful loss that could cost them a game and every game's going to matter. Maybe an opportunity for Kyle Philpowski to play with the two starting base because, you know, passing is probably his best skill. as long as we're on injuries, a couple other things we should mention. Man, I don't even know what to say about the clippers at this point. Like, it might be time for Chuck the Condor to fly south for the winter or something because Brandon Ingram suddenly's got partially torn Achilles.

Max Struce got hurt in preseason. He's going to be out for a while. It's just not going well. And obviously, Max Struz is there to get traded eventually no matter what the Clippers say. So maybe none of this really matters. It's just I really would like the next Clipper headline to be like Keaton Wogler gets a puppy and look how cute the photo is and not any of this. And then in Philly really sad one, Ariel Huck Porty, who is set to be their third string center and maybe their second string center while a Dembona is injured right now short term, but still towards Achilles. I mean, just a brutal, brutal break for a guy looking for an opportunity to get real minutes.

And, you know, Nick Nurse came out and said, yeah, we're going to just do like backup center by committee. Bono will get first crack. We've got Don Barlow. We got Jabari Walker. He mentioned going small with Dean Wade or LeBron at the five. I would be very cautious about doing anything that overtaxes LeBron at all in the regular season, including guarding fives or acting as the five defensively. Obviously, he can do it. He's like guarded Yolkich in spot minutes and done fine.

He can do everything. but that's just a bummer. For a team where that position is critical because of how many games Embed will miss. And, you know, like, I don't think Huck Porty's, like, changing your season either way, but it would be nice to have as many cards in that backup center deck as you can. Yeah, like, I think on the Philly front, one, just a blanket injury suck

and, like, seeing that happen in real time, and seeing the slow-mo replay when it ends, like, I just hate all of that. Within the actual on-court context, I think you nailed it. You want to have as many obvious. options in the four slash five room as possible. So you can maintenance, you meet a little bit during the regular season. You don't want to put that on LeBron. You want to save that for like high leverage matchups and ultimately the playoffs.

If you want to get that, go that small. And for a Sixers team that I already had like some defensive rebounding questions about, losing your backup center depth certainly doesn't help ease my concerns on that front. So I'm curious to see how they're going to play out of that. And because of how the Sixers built their team, they're dealing with apron restrictions. It's not like they can even sign another big. off the street just to help in the short term if they want to. Like it's going to have to be a trade of some sort

to make that work. So I'm curious to see if they wait this out and just war with the option that they have or if they do try to make some sort of like two for one deal or something just to loosen things up. So we'll see what happens on that front. On the Clippers echo your sentiments that I am sad that you just get the late Ingram News Max Trues in the first quarter

of the opening preseason games. It goes down. It's like, well, it didn't take long. And I was enjoying. I actually had Clipper notes prepared. It was like I kind of like how the offense is functioning. I am excited to see for however long he is healthy, Darius Garland at the helm of the offense without having to share it with another small guard,

et cetera. I just want as many good vibes for Clipper fans as possible because this entire summer has just been nonsense for them specifically. I want some good vibes for them. Let's see some Darius Garland. Let's see Rui Hatchamura continue to shoot like 80% on threes

and come off staggers and get open looks without having a dribble. Let's see Keaton Wagler continue to build on what is overall. all been a strong summer for him, like a shaky first of summer league game, but he's responded in a real way, getting more comfortable attacking tilted defenses. So there's some fun to be had. I would just like for them to stay healthy enough for us to be able to talk about it in earnest. All right. My turn, speaking of the Sixers, kind of. It's been two preseason games, whatever. I didn't watch both of them. The A.J. Mitchell, Jared McCain, Bench,

duo is going to light the fucking league on fire all season. I mean, they are going to just blestead opposing second units with their collective off the dribble scoring, three level scoring. McCain's been throwing some bullet pick and roll passes in the preseason. And they are just, I mean, obviously sometimes AJ Mitchell might start if somebody's out and all of that. I just think they're going to light up opposing second units. And Adama has shown some really fun flashes in preseason.

We'll see how it carries over, but like a couple blocks and then dunks on the other end in transition, a couple post-ups over smaller players on switches that looked pretty deft. Again, they've got a million centers on the roster and the dilemma of how much do we want to play Chet at center now that our perimeter guys are all healthy and we have enough wing depth to maybe do that more. But I just think McCain and Mitchell, it's just not fair, the dynamism that they're bringing off the bench. I mean, they are going to be toying with some of these opposing second units.

This Thunder team is going to be so incredibly good again. Just a quick hat tip to my guy, Steve Jones, who was, I think, live tweeting that game last night and getting into more thoughts earlier this morning. So I want to get to watch that one in full. I've got to see a little bit. I've also seen the clips on his timeline. But this is kind of what the Thunder do. They build up second units. They trust, they give dark throws to the young guys.

Once they evolve, they get traded to keep the both clear. And then other guy step up is like an assembly line of quality talent. And so now you get a full season of the Jared McCain experience. curious to see what he does inside the yard but outside of it, he's going to light it up and okay, see needs all the shooting that he can provide for this group. And we saw what AJ Mitchell did last year, like just continuously

got downhill and self-created. The business with him and Shay let the league on fire last year, and I'm sure whether he starts or not, there's going to be plenty of time where he is playing alongside She Gibbs-Ox-Elexander and like letting him toy with the second or maybe the third best per owner defender on the floor.

That's not a fun proposition for defenses. And I'm right there with a dive-bar. Like if there's any sort of like Chet injury or Isaiah Hardinstein's out or whatever, being able to go to that guy for like 15 minutes, like yeah, have fun trying to store at the rim when you already have all of these perimeter defenders

ahead of you that's ready to state the ball from you, they're going to turn you over on top of that. It's unfair. It's well done. I'm excited to see more from him. Your turn. Well, I am wearing like a Miami Bay shirt, so I will circle back to the very first preseason game of the 2026-27 season.

Heat rappers was a lot of fun. We finally got to see what Janice in Toronto, what Rihanna's in Miami looks like against the Toronto didn't have everyone. So again, preseason caveats, all the good stuff. My baseline question is something that I tossed air exposure during like introductory presses and things earlier in summer was how does he feel like the blend is going to go between the spacing principles that they introduced last year

and ultimately removing screening as a concept, it felt like at times within that. And now having Janus, who is very good at like inverted picking rolls. And when he wants to screen, can also be a very good roller on top of that. Getting to see the mix of Janus with a clear floor as the heat are just kind of cutting and relocating all over the place,

he's getting downhill. He's generating catch and shoot threes for everyone on top of that. And then when you don't stick to the shoot or when you do stick to the shooters, he's now getting all the way downhill. It's like, this is what you want it to look like if you're in Miami Heat. You're seeing Clay Thompson's all fall gravity pop. You're seeing Bam, out of bio being booed around the board. Defensively, you're seeing Janice and Bam in tandem.

It's kind of switching out, loading up help, protecting the rim. Keller Larson looked good. Andrew Wiggins looked good. Again, it's preseason, but like that's kind of what you wanted to see. Multiple drives, clean catcher shoot looks created. Not a lot of like redundancy in the half court.

The defense was switchable and active, but you still had a presence at the rim on top of that. It's not going to be what they shot from three every night. But like that's kind of the formula you wanted to see. So I just wanted to give a quick hat tip to the heat. for what they look like. Yeah. I mean, if Yonis is healthy, they're going to be a very good team.

If he plays 70 games, whatever, 68 games, they're going to be a very good team. He's got to be healthy in the playoffs, which he hasn't been. I'm still interested in just sort of the what is BAM doing when Yannis has the ball question and how they work that out. But there's a lot to do. There's a lot of places he can be. They can play two-man game together a little bit. Agree.

First sign encouraging. All right. My turn. Two Minnesota observations. Okay. Number one, Jada McDaniels looks ready for a big season. He's just playing and has played for a while, but these preseason games, he's been playing with just a level of like bravado and confidence on offense that feels even a little bit

amped up to me. And I just think to Caminga fit, it's been two preseason games. I was kind of pessimistic about the spacing of it on offense and sort of like, how are they going to work with that? I'm intrigued after two games. It's going to be messy and clunky on some nights because that's just the nature of the beast. But, A, the Ant Cominga McDaniels trio is pretty fucking big and physical on the wing on defense. And you've just seen enough of like Lamello Cominga pick and roll on one side of the floor.

If you switch, Cominga's rolling ahead of that switch and Rudy's in the dunker spot looking for an outlet pass. And Cominga's so fast that even if the help is there, you can come. go through it or even more promisingly like Aunt Cominga empty side pick and roll on the right side of the floor, kick to Lamello Lamello go bare, pick and roll on the left side when the defense is already

in motion already compromised. Like they're hitting all and they're running. Cominga clearly has the green light to like grab and go in transition. Like they're hitting the right buttons for that to be a workable offensive combination. I'm still a little skeptical and I you know

if it doesn't work very well, I.O. coming in is the obvious solution. The bench is like really dependent on Tarynx Jr. who looks all right and Baranget who looks all right and, you know, bones, who's bones. But I, the first glimpses of the Cominga

Gober fit look a little zippier than I anticipated honestly. So, you know, TBD, but they're a team obviously that everyone is super intrigued to watch. I like that. I think, you know, we just talked about the wolves a little bit on the recent episode of the Dunker's but I think the thing that popped for Steve and I was

just the injection of pace, like, it's obvious because Lamella ball's in the building, but like just seeing how quickly they're getting the ball across half court and how quickly they are flowing from side to side, as you already mentioned. It's one thing to have the threat of Lamello on one side and on the other. It's another thing where you have to deal with that within like 12 seconds instead of 18. And so the fact that you have that kind of skill, that kind of pace on top of that

just makes it difficult to deal with. One of my baseline questions for the rules is going to be like, how do they deal with teams that want to switch? And so having a comminga that is willing to slip out of there and you have finishing opportunities, or even if you're just talking about transition stuff, he doesn't mind like sealing people. Oh, yeah. He's been doing it already.

Like, if I got a small on me randomly, like, I'm going right to the rim and they're feeding them the ball. Yeah. So, like, they are already, look at this, preseason. So checking boxes is going to be aggressive, but it's like good to see sound process on that front to where we can't hit these slips. We can't hit these duck ends or seals already. We have some side to side flow with our two star guards.

And just, and I'll also just know, I think Dame more and others have hit on this. It feels like they've already thrown like 30 lobs in the preseason already. Like the vibes just generally seem to be high. And so I'm also glad you hit on kind of the defensive strengths of like the perimeter guys so far. Like I've also cute in an eye on how attentive these guys are going to be off the ball. Because the lineup is destructive in the way that you would imagine there's going to be more switching one through four with Rudy kind of roam in the back line. It's not enough to switch. You still do have to be active.

You still have to plug gaps. You still going to be ready for relocations and cuts and things like that. It's very early, but I've been encouraged that has to sustain as we've. getting to regular season basketball for the wolves, but they very much have top three offense, top six, top seven defense potential. So I hope they hit it. Did you say top three offense? They can.

I think the three point race certainly going to be up there. Anthony Edwards is incredibly good. LaMelle's going to juice the transition attack, and this is a Wool's team that have guys that can get out, but historically haven't been a great transition team throughout this era at the very least. I think it's on the table. I like that. All right, let's take a quick break.

We'll toss around a couple more quick ones and then hit our most intriguing players. for the upcoming season. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Every player brings something different to the field. Some at speed, some at power, some have their own podcast. That being said, no two players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field.

That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, I guess it's your turn. You got one. Go ahead. I will be quick with this one watching some Sacramento Kings.

I kind of like Darius A-Cuff and DeMonte Sabonis together. I have all of the questions in the world about what that's going to look like defensively. I think like we saw last year, this is very much going to be Sabonis at the level. Let's hope our rotations behind it are going to be strong.

But Darius A-Cuff showed very early on going back to Sumberleek that he's going to be a guy that can create his own shot. He's comfortable navigating tight quarters. He can shoot. drive. There's some fun playmaking chops. He has to decide when to pass and how often he wants to do so, but the passability is there. And with the Monta's a bonus, one, you use them as a hub that takes some of the creation burden off of A-Cubb. And two, on a very basic,

but important note, he is such a good screener. And his exchanges on handoffs does such a good job of forcing defenders to go over. It makes life easier for Darius A-Cove to put guys in jail and then kind of navigate those tight quarters inside the arc. So just a quick note on that duo offensively at the very least. I am intrigued. I like what Sabrives. I like what Sabonis can mean for A-Cove for however long Sabonis is going to be in Sacramento. Subonis is a pro. I don't doubt that he's going to do Subonis things and play super hard and ferociously, as he always does while he looks for the exit door.

I have a good King's story for you about how their season started. I heard this about a week ago. I've called up people who could verify it. It's been verified. At their first, they all arrived for training camp. They went out to a fancy training dinner team, the whole team, staff, everything. And at the dinner, Vivek Ronda Dievei spoke. And he kind of turned the dinner into a roast of lots of people in the room, telling them all the ways in which they have been failing

as players, coaches, executives, whatever. And I checked with the Kings and they, they confirmed the gist of that, I would say. Some people were alarmed. and we're like, this is not going over the way you intended. Some people thought, I get what he's doing. He's using the fact that we've become a media punchline to, like, motivate us. Like he was not saying, I, the Vecronidivay, believe these things about you, but here's what people say about you, prove us wrong. But it was described to me as a prolonged roast that landed with some of the audience

and not some of the, and some of the audience not as much. So like the kings are the kings. Okay, a couple more rapid fire ones before we transition. I mentioned the Bulls. Dail and Swain dribbling the basketball makes me a little bit nervous. But, you know, like you won't have to do that as much when the real game start. I'm already tired of Dylan Brooks and the season hasn't even started yet. Just like enough.

Just like enough, man. Like really, like I know this is your schick and you've become famous. We all got it now. Just like save it for when it really matters. matters. And the Pelicans, I just took note that they started Eves Misi over Derek Queen in their preseason opener, which I think if you want to have a competent defense and a more engaged Zion, I think that's probably the way to do it. And yet Zion still, again, preseason game, whatever. Like, he's just still in this netherworld of like old Zion who ISOed and ran pick a point. Point Zion, Zion who would occasionally center, like not that often, but occasionally, Zion who was really the fulcrum of everything the Pelicans had, that guy like exists here and there. But a lot of times, even with Misi starting and all the ball handlers they have it.

At one point they played, I took notes. They played Jeremiah Fears, Jordan Poole, Benedict Mathurin, and Sadiq Bay all together. I'm like, good freaking luck making that work on offense. But he's still a lot of times just kind of hanging around. around the baseline, Dunker spot extended, not as involved as he used to be. So I just, there's a lot of talent on this team. And I've,

I've joked before, like, as jumbly as it is. And I mentioned that lineup and all the guys who need the ball. There's going to be like a fourth quarter, like a quarter of every week where you watch them and are like, did they just score 45 points in a quarter and look like the best team in the world? And then the next quarter they're going to give up 40 and like turn the ball over eight times and probably lose the game. They're just

such a bizarre team, but I just don't think the Zion situation can be scrutinized enough in terms of like he's on a semi-expiring. Do they, is he really part of their long-term core? What is he who would trade for him? It's just a strange brew over there.

Yeah, it's like they've reached the inflection point of how much they want to invest in him because you have Derek Queen in the building and because it just kind of feels untenable having them on the floor together defensively. So you do just kind of to a point where you have to choose one and try to accentuate their strengths,

but also kind of hide their weaknesses on the defensive end. And I don't think you can do that for both with the rest of the personnel that they have. I'd say other quick notes that I have to kind of close things out. Back to the Kings, it may just be because the roster

doesn't have a bunch of good defenders at all. But in Summer League, Emmanuel Sharp popped for me immediately. And in preseason, he will foul, but he's going to be very physical. He's just a very good screen navigator. While I'm thinking about random defenders, Alpha Diallo in Denver,

Yeah. Very fun. Defensively already. Forcing, I think, an eight-second violation in his first preseason game. I'm just like, okay, that seems like a lot of fun for me. John thinks there anything else I want to hit. Those are probably the two.

Oh, entreat by the Lakers tossing out some of their acquisition wing, some of the young guys, ramping up full court pressure. We'll see how much that sustains as we get into the regular season. But they didn't feel like a high-pressure group last year. So that seems like a little bit of a shift for them. We'll see if J. Rick stinks with that. JJ is optimistic.

And so I take note of things like that because JJ says nothing lightly. I think the Lakers are going to win a lot of games. I just think the two teams in the West that are juggernauts are just going to be too good for almost everybody. Okay, let's ship gears. Every year I would write this column when I used to be a writer,

my six most intriguing players for the season. I have done that version of the podcast already over the summer. I don't even remember who was on at Scoot Henderson was one of them. And I said, I have separately a player who is my no-brainer, most intriguing player for the entire season. I'm going to do a standalone segment on him.

So that's what we're going to do today. But I said, I want you to pick. I know you and Steve Jones on the Dunker Spot, wonderful podcast, everybody should listen to it. I have done your sort of version of that, most interesting players or intriguing players. But I said, why don't you pick one? And so we'll have our actual apex most intriguing players,

the guys were most obsessed with for the season. So I'll let you go first. who's your guy. I know who you're finalists for this were, but I don't know who you picked. I ultimately stuck with the Eastern Conference. I went with Evan Bobley for this for a bunch of reasons. One, he is still, he is incredibly good at basketball

and young for a Cleveland Cavaliers team that I feel like as I've like seen projections and read articles and tweets and listen to different pods. You think about the top tier of the Eastern Conference and it is naturally New York because they just won. A lot of Boston love. a lot of Philly intrigue. There seems to be a very wide range

on how good the Miami Heat are going to be for people. Some feel like they can be top three. Some feel like they're just going to be in the playing because of the role players, whatever. And I'm just like the Cavs did just make the Eastern Conference Finals. They did. It wasn't the best version of themselves in that Eastern Conference Finals because the Knicks just kind of blitz them.

So I understand some of that. But like they're really good. And when you zoom out with that playoff run in particular, I think you can very much argue that Evan Mobley was just their most impactful guy in their playoff run. And I don't know if that gets enough attention. And when it does, it feels like that is brought up within the lens of, well, that's because Donovan Mitchell didn't do what he was supposed to do.

Or that's because James Harden did the playoff thing again. It's like, Edmond Bowley is really good. I think because he didn't make the capital L leap last year, some of the subtle growth that he did make last year went under the radar. Like, I did feel like he was a better passer. I did feel like he dealt with contact on drives a little bit more. He was more intentional about hitting first on some of the post touches and on some of the drives in particular, very quietly converted to career high 63% of his twos.

And he was at 63% of his twos during the playoffs as well. And he's been an all-defense candidate, if not a depoy winner, since he has stepped into the NBA. And so for a Cavs team that I still think, at the very least, it churned out regular season wins, if we do actually get another creation leap from Evan Mowgli, or there's just more play strength in general, which unlocks more lines with him at the five, which means he gets to build more pick and roll chemistry with James Hardin, and that looked really good during the rank of the season last year.

The calf should be in the mix that come out of the east. Like, I don't think that is an egregious take to have. And so for me, I'm watching once again on what level of growth we see from Evan Mobley, on top of him being really good on both ends of the floor already. I was going to ask you what specifically is the source of intrigue. Like, what are you watching from him where you're like, I want to see what's different this year? You mentioned more picking rules with Hardin, maybe with him at center.

You mentioned his passing. And yeah, he had a small uptick and assist last year and then an even bigger one in the playoffs. His three-point shot kind of disappeared, 29% on three a game. Obviously, that would be helpful. It feels like we've been saying that for four years. You know, part of my, as you may have heard, I don't trust the Cleveland Cavaliers what I'm picking teams to come out of the east. I don't trust James Harden in big games.

And I just feel like, I don't know how you feel about this. I thought the Peyton Watson trade was a very good move for them and the kind of move that they should be doing and the player profile that they've been searching for. I do think like the first 30 games of Watson, Mobley, Allen is going to be a little clunky and there's going to be a lot of learning curve to like, all right, he's in the corner.

Teams aren't guarding him even though he shot very well in the corner. If he does that again, teams will guard him. Not like the most intuitive catch and go playmaker, but can do it. the guards both dribble a lot. It just feels like it's going to be a little clunky on offense. And they have this lever to hit off the bench of going small with Watson at the four. You throw in Tyson for one of the bigs.

You throw in Sam Meryl, both of them, whatever. I just feel like the cats are going to have to search a little bit for what is our optimal rotation? What is our optimal five-man lineup to close games with all the stuff other teams all have to do too? I just, I feel like it's going to be, little clunky for them. I don't know how you think about that. I don't think it's unfair. I think because I think of a big picture question that I had for Cleveland and we had talked about this when we had to chase down guys on our podcast. Kenny Atkinson pressed a lot of

buttons last year in terms of how he wanted the office to function, different lines we want to press. And I think there is in general a thin line between experimentation and doing so to the point where you don't really know what your bread at like when I just press all the buttons on the joystick, hoping that like my outfielder throws to the right. or my guy steals home or something, just matching the buttons? Yeah, like it felt like a little bit of that in some key moments.

And so I do think broader strokes, who does Cleveland want to be? I think that is a fair question to ask and within the clunkiness that you expressed, like it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. I do think if you lean into more of Evan Mobley High Post creator, and they've already done that before

in this time in Cleveland, you can alleviate some of those concerns. Like, I don't think James Hart and Donovan Mitchell have to dribble as much if you are utilizing Mobley in that way. It's something that I've cited a few times during the summer at this point with Evan Mobley. One of my favorite stats of last season

is I think among a little under 200 guys that ran at least 200 picking rolls last year. Nobody generated more points for possession per second picture than Evan Mobley did. As the ball handler. As the ball handler. I think he was the only guy over 1.2, which again, 200 compared to like

Lucas running 1,000, et cetera. But it's like some of that is still in there. And when you pair that with the growth that I think he displayed as a driver, And as a foul drawer, which quick aside, the free throw shooting has to perk back up for him because that was just weird for him last year. 60% last year after two stray years over 70. Yeah. So, like, that is, in theory, low-hanging fruit for him to grab.

So if he averages 20, that might be a part or why. But, like, I just think you can use him as a playmaker to kind of balance things out within the offense, takes a pressure off of Mitchell, takes a pressure off of Hardin, unlock some of the cutting and relocation from Peyton Watson on top of that. And with this growth as a self-creator, you can get into different looks offensively. And I think the defense is just going to be there for him. Like, he is just one of the best defenders on the planet. And so my intrigue lives with what the overall usage for him is going to be or what the split is going to be.

Because I have an idea of what actions he's going to be used into. It's just how much of each one. But I think you nail the right balance. It makes life easier for everyone. He becomes more impactful. And Cleveland should be right there in terms of the upper echelon to Eastern Conference. I mean, the numbers every year with Mowbly and Allen together are unbelievable. And defensively, you're in.

infrastructure is so sound with those two. And yet I'm still like not 100% convinced that that's a 25 minute a game lineup in the playoffs against great defenses and less something about how they play changes. And maybe that's exactly what you're saying, just using your tools differently. Because it just felt like offense was just too hard for them last year. So this is, I'm struggling internally with this myself. Like it just, you have James Harden and Donovan Mitchell and two big guys who have made All-Star teams before. You've got shooters.

You've got lots of this stuff. They just felt like it was so hard for them to generate really good shots. Analytically, perhaps that's not the case. But just a lot of dribbling. Like Donovan's passing kind of leveled down a little bit in the postseason. I think that's less about him and just more about the ecosystem not being quite right. And then when I'm saying struggling internally, I'm saying Toronto, halacious defense. Detroit

halacious defense helped both in both cases by the referees allowing more physicality in the playoffs. And the Knicks just on the greatest magic carpet ride in the history of basketball on both ends of the floor. So maybe my biases

or whatever are over indexing on like blaming the calves and under-indexing on like maybe it was just a suboptimal set of circumstances for them offensively. But they just feel a little more uncertain than I'd like them to be. Even as you know, they did make the conference finals.

And I sit here and I always say, well, it was a very uninspiring conference finals run. And again, on the surface, it was like two game sevens against the Raptors who were missing Brandon Ingram. And I don't like, you can sit here and say the Raptors were better without Brandon Ingram and help them. Like at some point, you need a requisite amount of scoring on your team to win a playoff series. And not having quickly, like objectively did hurt them, even though he would have been hunted a little

bit on defense. And then they won game seven in Detroit on the road, like emphatically. That was a really great win. And you know, I don't know. I don't know how to feel about the Cavs. This is I just don't trust them. I don't trust them. I don't trust them. I don't trust them. And

I'm never going to trust them. Okay. That's it for me. You want me to make my pick or any other thoughts on the Cavs? I bet we can flip to you. I'm curious to hear who you have. Well, you know, it's not just because you're here as the president of the Southeast division. By the way, I think every division like I think every division like

the conferences and the NCAA should have like a fake president like who doesn't really do anything with the conference presidents. You say you would be my nominee for the president of and you would just have to just give speeches everyone so about how great the Southeast division is and and you know

create fake rivalries where like whoever wins the season series between the Hornets and the heat gets like a trophy of some kind and all that. My most intriguing player for the upcoming NBA season is brought to you by State Farm. I think to me, this is a no-brainer. My most intriguing player for this season is Brandon Miller in Charlotte, currently up for an extension.

I think they will probably get, I would bet, if I had to bet, I would bet on them getting something done before the season. Obviously, he's missed a lot of time with various injuries, shoulder stuff last year. The offseason was, you know, he had to take some time to keep recovering from that. he's a real eye of the beholder player pessimists would see i think a brandon ingram 2.0 where the numbers and the and the physical profile look great and it just doesn't translate into enough actual impactful winning stuff for whatever reason optimists would see i think a quicker more live player than brandon ingram um a more alert at defender than brandon ingram

someone who has more potential on that end if he stays healthy. And the Hornets have clearly like, look, the lamello ball trade was a lot of different things. It was a bet against lamella ball. It was a slight hedge against like, we don't really think what we were last year was 100% real in a world in which a third of the league was tanking. And we yet again didn't get out of the play in tournament. It was a linked to that, a bet on if we keep acquiring assets and assets and assets,

we're going to be the most nimble team in the league and already have a couple really important foundational players in Brandon Miller and Conchinipal. And at the end of the day, it's also a big bet that both of those guys are actually foundational players, that they can be stars in their own right. And I think they're right about Brandon Miller. I would consider myself a Brandon Miller optimist. I know the health issues have been there.

I know he doesn't get to the rim perhaps as much as you would like a guy who has the ball as much as he had to get there. His passing numbers are kind of meh. And if you look at the tracking data, he has one of the lowest assist rates out of like all the hundreds of players

who ran some requisite number of pick and rolls. There's that. I think defensively he's been just okay, a little bit foul prone when he gets tired. I just look at him I think the package is there. And I look at all the different ways he can score should be playoff ready ways to score. Like he can get to that Chris Paul snaking midranger anytime he wants on the pick and roll,

except he's 6-8 and Chris Paul is six foot flat. And I think he's going to learn on a lot of those plays where they end up in mid-range shots or just he picks up his dribble and kicks it out. he's like one dribble away on the pick and roll from having that retreating big man in a real bad position. He's one dribble away from drawing a foul at the rim. He's one dribble away from creating a lob or a pocket pass to his big man.

And I think he has the right intentions. And he's going to see that. And you see flashes of all of that stuff, the right pass, the hesitation dribble and drive to the rim. Yeah, he's not like the most explosive first step athlete, vertical athlete. When he gets a runway he is, and he's very crafty.

and his change of pace, his crossover dribble, his hesitation moves, those kind of things like make you effectively faster and more explosive than you actually are in a raw way. And I see absolutely no reason why he should not be a plus defensive player. He can get skinny around screens. He's big. I think his activity level needs to get a little better. But if I were betting, I would bet on Brandon Miller. But I'm interested to hear what you think of the Ingram comparison and sort of, I, I, I, I'm more optimistic about Brandon Miller than that.

I have no idea where you fall on him. No, like one, as a Southeast enthusiast, I appreciate you bringing Brandon Miller to the table, first and foremost. But no, in all seriousness, the Brandon Ingram comp is interesting to me. Like, my immediate thought as you were going into it is like, well, Brandon Miller already, and maybe this is just a product of when he entered the league. He is already more willing to take threes and take threes off the bounce that Brandon Ingram has ever been. And 36% on pull-up threes last year, and he takes like 10, not pull-ups,

almost like 10 total three per 36 minutes. So that's difference number one. Yeah. And so like him being, if you're going to be pull up heavy as a wing for me, at least aesthetically,

I want a larger diet of that to be behind the arc. So the fact that he's willing to do that already just kind of gives him a leg up for me when it comes to the Brandon Engel comparison. But like inside the arc, I think my biggest question for him now and moving forward is just what level of force

is he going to play with? And I think you already kind of alluded to it. Because I do think you see these possessions to where, like, he'll snake, take the extra dribble and kind of play through some contacts. Like, it's in there. And as you mentioned, when he does have a runway, like, he has some incredible dunks in his career package already.

But I think in general, he's going to have to be more intentional about how he navigates tight quarters. The fact that he already kind of has the snake and keep a defender in jail can operate and get into pull-ups is encouraging. That gives him a foundation to build on, let me take that extra dribble snake back the other way and get into some of these scoops.

Like, you see some of those on the film. The finishing isn't always there. But the fact that it's kind of in the wheelhouse for him at the very least, it gives us something to build off of. So I'm fascinated to see how quickly he can grow in that because if he does, more free throw should come. Again, it already has a three-point thing. And like, I'm glad you brought up the playmaking portion because, like, I was looking at a lot of the same numbers. You look through some of the pick and rolls or you look through some of the handoff reads for him. And it's just like, here's a pass that you wouldn't expect them to be able to make.

here's a live dribble skip that just kind of comes at random way. It's there sometimes. Yeah, it's nine regular, like early pickups and then swing to the wing or something. And then it's just live dribble skip. It's like, obviously it's basketball. You can't just say, hey, just do that over and over and over again.

If you would, he would be Luca Donchich instead of Brandon Miller. But it's just like, if that's there, can you do that three times a game instead of once? It doesn't have to be 10. And so I'm intrigued by that portion and like looking at some of his picking roles where he was getting two on the ball. Like one, it wasn't something. that he saw super often.

And with Lamello out of the building now, I am fascinated to see how often he gets that coverage. And then when he does get it, how does he handle it? Because one of the things that popped for me to add in my notes is like, these are some good place, some well-placed passes. He is super retreat heavy. But he's in the second offender. He is backing up five, six feet.

He's at half court and it's hard to make the first pass quickly when you're going backwards like that. That's one of the things that stuck out for me. When he's blitzed, it's pretty hit or miss, and I want him to get off the ball faster. But like you said, part of that is an experience thing. And the Lamello void, I mean, obviously Kobe White is a very good player. He will see how that works. I think it'll be fine.

Nas Reid is a spacing four that'll open up the floor more than it was last year. When Miller and Kinnipple played without Lamello last year, there were like minus 10 per 100 possessions. Now, when you throw Kobe White in, it was very limited, like very limited. but it looked good. So I'm just like the burden on him is going to be different. He and Con Cinnippler both when they're healthy. Khan's already hurt too. Hornets have like a bunch of injuries already.

They're going to have to do a little bit more of the heavy lifting on the ball. And like all of that make like I think I don't think the Hornets are a playoff team this year. I think they will take a tiny step back. That's totally fine. That was built into the Lamello trade. I just think they're a super intriguing team for tons of different reasons, Brandon Miller being the very top one. I think that is more than fair

And I think as I'm thinking about Charlotte structurally, because they led the league in like guard screens by a very wide margin. And when you have Lamello, you can do that as he can initiate and he can also be part of those ghosts. I do wonder what that is going to look like when it is Brandon Miller said, you're saying those ghost screens or those brush screens

for Kobe White instead of Lamello. Are those just going to be switches? And just in general, how often will Charlotte see switches and what does that look like? That's where some of the flashes of and I think we talked about this on the darker spot. I know you talked about it last year. year when the Charlotte Hornets were on their run,

like Brandon Miller taking some of these switches and seeing somebody smalls and like actively going at these guys in a way that we weren't accustomed to earlier in his career. It's like, okay, this is positive progress. Continue to do that. Continue to stack those reps. But like it's in there to play with a little, low force. Now, I was going to say the next step on

some of those Mitchbass hunting that he did last year was can we turn some of these jumpers over the outstretched arms of a small defender into free throws? I think it's in there. Play strength has to increase handle has to get a little bit tighter. And again, the mentality to get deeper into the paint has to be there. But, like, the seeds are there.

So, like, I certainly understand why the intrigue level is high with Brandon Miller, especially when you tie that into lamello trade plus Miller being extension eligible right now. Like, I think he's, if he's not already better than Brandon Ingram, I think he will be soon. I would take him over Brandon Ingram now, frankly, but I think Brandon Ingram's fine. That's not a shot of Brandon. I think he's okay. I think the upside comparison and the guy I see a little. bit when I watch him. And I'm not saying he's going to be as good as this player because

very few people are. But could he be 90% of Jason Tatum, 95, like the big apex wing who's like, maybe not the best passer in the world, but has a great mid-range jumper, scores in a lot of different ways, can spray it out, can defend, like just sort of a jack of all trades at that size, who can shoot threes off to dribble, get to his mid-ranger, whenever. Like, could he be that? is that, I don't know, it's just a guy that I see. I don't, again, like, he's not going to be, you should never bet on anyone being as good as a guy who makes first team all-N-B-A every year that he's healthy.

But I think Brandon Miller will make an all-N-Ba team sooner rather than later, I would bet on him. He is my number one most intriguing player for the season. Nikaius Duncan, what's your Dunker spot schedule with Steve this week? What do we got? It is, we're in the middle, on the NBA side, we're in the middle of division preview. So we are doing the Pacific Division on Friday.

So if you are a fan of either, the LA teams, the Warriors, et cetera, we are going to be digging in. And then on the W side, we are just deep in playoff prep. Again, I am flying out or flying back to Vegas later today to see if the aases extend their season. So it's just going to be a mixture of division previews and W playoff content over at the Dunker Spot. Basketball, it's a great pod. Steve's the best. You're the best. Nikaius, thank you.

And speaking of the Warriors, we're going to bring on Nick Friedel to talk Golden State Warriors. All right, Nick Friedel is here. he's wearing a Cubs hat to remind me about Pete Crow Armstrong that is noted and not appreciated. Here's what we're going to do. I haven't talked too much about two of the sort of stariest franchises in the league, the Lakers and the Warriors, the California franchises. One, I think the Lakers just going to be good and really good

and not as good as the Thunder and the Spurs, but we're going to have Dan Wojkeye on next week to do a Lakers deep dive. And the Warriors, the Golden State Warriors, kind of just over here to the side. I'd not forgotten because Steph Curry's there and there's some Lendabor buzz and Pajemski's extension eligible and they still have all their picks and like, Draymond's going to do stuff and Jimmy Butler might come back. But just, it feels a little depressing, Nick Friedel.

Their over under is down to 36 and a half. Jimmy Butler is going to miss a large part of the season. Half of it, I don't know, something like that. Porzingis is gone. I don't know what's going on with him. Al Horford is very old. and we'll miss a lot of games. Steph Curry missed a lot of games last year.

He's old. Moses Moody is out for the season. They're always going to be fun because Steph is a show when he plays. The system is a show when he plays. Dremont and Steph have the chemistry that will never die. Lenderborg looks like a perfect fit. I like Pajemski despite the fact there's been some sort of up and downs with him. I like Brandon Williams adding a little speed off the bench.

Like there's stuff here. but man, I can't, I can't like get into this team. Can you, can you tell me like what's, what's happening? It is always good to see you, buddy. And what I would tell you what's happening with this group is they are the most interesting trade deadline team there is. If we could hit the fast forward button and go to the beginning of February, that's when it gets really fascinating.

Because I'm with you on all the things you outline there, they're not great. They could be okay, but so much of that is contingent on Steph being out there for a lot of games. I'm not sure at this stage with that knee, if that's possible. But the real question to me is, what happens at the deadline? Is Jimmy back? What does he look like? Are they potentially going to move him?

Are they going to potentially move Draymond when the time comes? That Porzingis deal could be used in something with nobody knows what the hell of is exactly going on with his health situation. So they have a lot of major, major decisions to make, but they've got to make them heading into February. Right now, they look like a middle of the road team, but the Steph spotlight still shines so brightly that you can't look away completely because when he is out there and he's okay health-wise, he's still awesome.

He's amazing. He's a force unlike any other in the league. I love Landaborg. I know Anthony Slater, your colleague, covered in the Warriors for ESPN, talked about how it was Burries or Landiborg for them, and then the Bucks made that decision for them, basically. He's 24 years old.

How many times are we going to hear it repeated that he's older than Jonathan Kaminga many, many times? He's a perfect fit with the Warriors. He looked awesome in Summer League. He shot the three well. He shot the three okay in college pretty well last year, too. he looks just like an absolute seamless fit in the Steph, Draymond, Steve Kerr, flow offense.

He's setting back screens. He's running two-man inverted picket rolls with Steph. He's running two-man without Horford. He's cutting to the right spaces, hitting his shots. He can defend pretty much anybody. I think his sort of attention to detail on defense needs to improve a little bit, but he's a rookie. You know, he stands pretty upright off the, like those reeds off the ball.

Are we switching or we're not switching? Those are tough. I think they've got a gem in him. I just don't really know. Like, I just, I guess I can't, I just, I'm let, if you had told me that the Warriors got a gem of a rookie who I think will make an all rookie team for sure, I would be more excited than this, I would think, but I'm just not, I'm not that excited. I got to say, Nick, like it seemed like a scorcher when I said it last week and I don't

think it's a scorcher at all. I think the Warriors are very much at risk of missing the play in tournament, not the playoffs, the play in tournament. I think they're the 10th best team in the West. and one of those teams behind them, Memphis or Dallas, is going to exceed expectations. And I just don't really like this team. And if Steph misses 30 games and those 30 games overlap with Jimmy being out, it's going to be like kind of a nightmare.

Yeah, they aren't going to make it. And, Zach, to your point, I like Jacks a lot. He fits very, very well. The only question I have is defensively, is he going to be there every single night. because all anybody says who's been around him since Summer League when he won the MVP is, the guy is huge. He fits all over the floor, but there are times you watch him in Summer League and at least early in the preseason, and you're like, all right, well, he can shoot the hell out of the ball, but is he going to bring

that intensity that they want every night on the defensive end? That remains to be seen. But to the larger point about where they are as an organization, if you're banking on the Warriors being pretty good this year, potentially a fringe playoff team, you're banking on basically two guys not named Step and their Yaxel being in the running potentially for the rookie of the year if he's as good on both. I'm not going, I'm not going there, but you know, we'll see. He's got to get to a point where you trust him every single night. And Zach, he's got to play. And he's got to play well. They don't have a lot of other options. But the other

point, and it's crucial in any Warriors' conversation, they have to have Pods be a little bit better. And if you believe that the Warriors can get to a better place than they were at last year, Pods has to take that proverbial next step. Now, I would tell you haven't just been out in Hawaii for a week for training camp with them. Pods looked awesome. You talk to any one of those players, the coaches, they say he's been working on his game. He's in better shape. He looks more confident. He's the one that's been telling you, Axel, you've got to be aggressive with Steph on the floor because he needs you to shoot it and take pressure off of all the defenses laying into him. But that's really the issue with this Warriors team.

Everybody's been through it. The core is so old that if you believe that they can be better, what you're believing is that Yaxel and pods are the guys to help you do it if Steph can. can stay upright. So a lot of ifs there, but I can tell you at least in the short returns of the last couple of weeks of training camp, Yaxil, they love him. Curr wants him to be more aggressive. He thinks he's a little too passive, especially with Steph, but that will come with time as a rookie. In pods, he wants that new deal. He looks motivated to be the guy that he's always thought of himself to be. The question is, can his game follow that? up this season.

I like pods. First of all, pods is definitely in the top five of most jarring hair transformations of the off season. I was like,

wait, what? What's happening? The curls are gone and it just, I think he looks a little tougher. I think it's working for him.

I like pods. I think he's like a solid fourth to fifth starter or depending on team context, six man kind of guy. I mean, 14,

five and four on decent shooting last year. He's a solid defender. He takes a million charges. He's not a great defender, but he's pretty good. I think that's a good player. He hasn't, he hasn't been helped by Joe Lacob's comments about him, and he hasn't helped himself with some of his comments about himself, and that has contributed, I think, to outsized expectations among fans. I think he's a good player. You mentioned he's extension eligible. I'd be curious what you're hearing about that. I have noted before that his cap hold is $17 million. The Warriors are clearly a team that wants to be in a position at least to potentially use cap space next summer for one last run or one more run at a big time addition or two next to Steph. And so I've said,

I would bet on an extension with Pajemski happening, but right around that cap hold number so that it doesn't really hurt their space at all. But I honestly, like we're getting towards the deadline. It hasn't happened yet. What are you hearing? It has always felt like it would get done. And Zach, you and I've been doing this way too long. When you see both player and teams say, hey, we want to get this done way more often than not, especially before these deadlines, it usually happens. Pods likes being out here. Don Levy and Kerr really like him. You figure that the number is somewhere in there.

It always felt like it would be somewhere around 20 to me. maybe a little more depending on the market. But he seems comfortable out here, and Kerr really seems to trust him, and that trust is only going to grow. So I'd be surprised if you and I are talking a couple weeks from now, and it's not done. The real question to me, though, is if you're the Warriors

and you're paying pods and you've paid Steph, and now you have Yaxel, again, this ties back into, well, what happens after that? and that's what nobody seems to have a clear-cut answer on, and they're kind of waiting to see how this plays out for context. Jimmy is still months away. He was in Hawaii, but he's not able to do all that much, although he kept reinforcing I can dunk if I need to.

Okay, great, but he's 37 years old coming off a major, major knee injury, and he keeps saying he wants to stay with the Warriors, but in order to do so, he's not going to. going to be anywhere near another max extension. Dremont's a 27 million this year. He's not going to be anywhere near that if he ends up wanting to stay. So there are a lot of major question marks in the future. But if you get the pods deal done and you still like the way Yaxel looks a few months from now, those are the two core pieces with Steph. Everybody else is kind of up in the air. but specific to pods, I think that there is enough push on both sides to make it happen before the deadline.

I would be, if you told me Jimmy Butler was on the active roster for half their games this year, I think they would, I would sign up for that if I were a Warriors fan, not not playing half the games because he's obviously not going to play back to backs and all that. But that would, in my mind, on ballparking like January 1 or something like that for Jimmy, which is a lot of the season. It's half the season almost. You mentioned the expirings, Jimmy and Draymond. Porzingis has only 3 million guaranteed on a player option next year. I feel like they're going to keep his contract on the books for a trade purposes, at least through this season and then decide.

The cap space thing is super interesting because it might impact how they approach this season. Like what remember, like when Jimmy first came, weren't there, like 24 and 7 with him and step in the line. It was like some crazy record, right? Yeah, I mean, they had step from the outside and Jimmy would get to the foul line and provide a completely different look. I mean, they fit from a basketball perspective. No question.

Neither one of them can stay healthy. So I could, you know, the cap space weapon for them can be used in the offseason, potentially in a lot of different ways. It can be used just to sign free agents. It can be used to make lopsided trades where you take in more salary than you send out than you'd normally be allowed to take in because you have the cap space to do it. And everyone's like fixated on how they control

all their draft picks but one. And even that one is top 20 protected. It can be amended. I just wonder if like I think they're going to be in the kind of position where we get to February, whatever the trade deadline is. I think they're going to be right around the sweet spot where the new lottery system really helps them.

And like I, I just wonder if that team, that was 23 and 7 or whatever it was, if that team is just gone, I would bet on it being largely gone because of health and age. And if there is any move, like if it's even worth it to bundle up a bunch of picks

to salvage whatever the remains of that team is, if I could wait until the offseason when I have a lot more options to either use those same picks in a different way, use cap space, whatever. Like, I don't necessarily think it's like, a lock that they make a big trade at the trade deadline because I just think they're going to look at the standings and be like, oh, wow, we're in the 3-2-1 potentially of the 3-2-1 lottery system.

And like we could use a building block or two for sure. I'm with you. But what I would tell you is having watched this team closely over the last year, that draft take, if it lands in the right spot, that's great. This team, if we're being real, Zach, is badly in need. of hitting the button, though. They're just, they're not good enough. And to your point about, all right, well, we'll throw all these contracts in and we'll

make one big move, potentially the deadline, sign somebody in the summer, they're still not good enough. They are trying to do right by Steph, but Steph's 38 years old with a knee problem. I mean, I'll give you some anecdotal evidence here. We're in Hawaii. We're in that preseason game. They're playing the clippers. He comes to the bench for the first time in the first quarter.

immediately he puts the heating pad on the knee. And I went, oh, no, because this is going to be like that all year long. He knows it. The training staff knows it. They still want to be competitive around Steph. Joe Lakev is the owner. He wants to win, et cetera, et cetera. This team, though, as they're constructed, isn't close enough if they bring in that one

mythical major piece to get back to where they've been. So if it were me and I were Mike Dunleaving, I'm watching all this unfold. I'm saying, all right, we want to keep Steph. He fills the building. He is the franchise. But every single other person, let's talk. I mean, they really like Yaxel and they really like pods. I wouldn't stop either one of those guys from moving out if you got the right pieces back in place.

But that's the issue that they face in that they're not bad enough to, to, to, tank all the way out of it. And they're not good enough to get back to the level that we're used to seeing. And my point to you as we sit here before the season is, of course, getting that top two or three pick. That'd be fantastic. That piece isn't going to put them into a better place either. So they are really just stuck in kind of no man's land. And the reality is that I don't see a move that's going to take them out of the situation that they're in. So if you're done, Levy, I guess the best play is you keep the young guys with Steph and you get everybody else out and you see what happens a year from now and keep building from that point. I mean, that pick,

it may not put them in a better position to win today, next year, whatever, but it definitely puts them in a better position post-Step, which is what they really should be aiming at. Now, if they are still aiming at, and they should be too, trying to thread the needle of like doing right by Steph, I just keep thinking of like, well, who's even the guy? Like, who are they trading for? And there's some possibilities. Like, the season will go haywire in a bunch of different places. There's also the possibility of like, hey, maybe there's a guy on an expiring whose trade value declines to the point that it doesn't cost us very much. It costs us one protected future first round pick or so like that.

Like, what if the Nets decide Michael Porter Jr.? is just not a part of our future? Anthony Davis, I've never really since the Warriors are like super into that idea. No. But like that's a name. Like like there will be a guy like that. He's like, yeah, this guy helps us and it's the cost isn't that much. In terms of like the guy like I just don't know who the guy that I'm bundling a lot of stuff to go get because it's got to be somebody younger on the like young prime age timetable. Like Kauai's gone.

He's on the Raptors now. Paul George, all these old guys that they've sniffed around. It can't be somebody like that. Mark and is locked up. Like someone through Devin Booker to me is a hypothetical. I just don't see Phoenix even entertaining anything with that right now. And the contract is huge. And I think Phoenix wants to see what they have.

There's nothing going on to be clear in any point with Devin Booker. I would look at a guy like if Orlando has a bad season, do I get a, do I try and get a mulligan on the Franz Wagner pick? Like that's a guy I might throw a bunch of draft picks at because if somebody of that ilk or timetable or age or whatever, but I just don't know, like, who, if you, if you were dreaming of this big superstar trade, I just don't know really who it is. And by the way, as I'm saying this, that's fine. Like, I think their best move might just be kind of ride it out into the offseason, keep all the picks, keep all the assets, and see what comes in

May and June. Because I think this season is kind of DLA, to be honest with you. I couldn't agree with you more on that point. And I would tell you that I think the problem them the Warriors are going to face is, yeah, they want to do right by Steph. And if he's healthy, it changes the dynamic, certainly. But there's not that guy. You want to throw every pick you got or a lot of picks that. John has got traded. It's over. Yeah. I mean, Franz Wagner, Franz Wagner is not going to get you from wherever the hell the warriors are to where we're used to see. And then they'll say, all right, well, we just want to have a chance in the postseason. Franz Wagner is not the type of difference maker on that kind of deal that's going to take you to a completely

different place. The fan base is more pissed off than I can ever remember it being because they were so mad that there weren't a lot of moves in the off season and they're watching all these other teams improve and the Warriors are sitting there going, eh, you know, we don't want to give up the picks. We don't see that kind of guy that we're trying to describe here being available. And that's where I think there are going to be big questions as the season keeps going, because I think this is a team that's going to hover somewhere around 500, maybe a few games below most of the year, waiting for Jimmy and whatever happens. But, Zach, I cannot stress this enough again at the start of the season. If I were the Warriors, I would ride this thing

out just like they're trying to do right now. Because if you put all your picks into, whether it's Wagner or Anthony Davis, you know, fill in the blank. I've heard Devin Booker, too, just as a name getting tossed out. Put Devin Booker on this team. Give up all your picks. How much better are you? You're a better team, but you're not closer to some kind of extra bonus title at the end

of the Steph run. So I would do exactly what they do. did in the summer, and I would just close my ears to every criticism that's out there. And the fan base doesn't want to hear that. They want to see action. They want to see Steph have one more legit run. I don't see it. I think that the warriors are entering into that phase of what we saw with Kobe at the end of the Lakers time. Now, they're not that bad. But it's, hey, is Steph out there? Okay, this is a good night? Something truly. pretty cool could still happen. But this team is used to winning titles and competing at the top

and the way they're structured and the way the money is and what other assets are happening. As Steph gets closer to retirement, I think the best path is to be as cautious as possible right now. Well, and also just like whether it's Booker or anybody else that has a huge salary for next season, you're taking away all or a lot of decap space. Like the dream would be at a player and still be able to add more players. And that's, I don't know, man. I just, I wish I had more reasons to be optimistic about this team. But I wanted to take a look at him because I like Landaborg a lot.

And I think the pods deal should get done. And they're just always interesting. As long as Steph is flying around, there will be nights. There will be nights like that Clippers playing game where the old lion roars again, where it's like Steph Draymond, handoff, Steph Draymond, wink, wink, flip to screen. And like, it looks like it's 2015 again. There will be nights. There will be moments like that, but it's, they're becoming increasingly surrounded by the,

the creep of mortality. Nick Friedel, I'm sorry your Cubs didn't make it out of the first round, but they did better than the Mets did this year. It's always great to see you. Thanks for PCA, my man. And it is always good to be with you. And I'd end on this. And we're both saying it, but it's true.

And I was reminded of it being out there for a while over the last week. if you're lucky enough to see it still get a chance to go watch Steph and he is healthy, go take it because he still is that great. And he can still make the crowd go, whoa, you know, because you're just not used to seeing somebody like him. Sadly, I don't know if his knee is going to be able to hold up anywhere close to where he would want it to be. But when he is out there, wherever you're at, if you're lucky enough to go get a ticket and see him, you need to because it's it's still a pretty cool and exciting atmosphere every time he lines up to go play.

No, no, no joking, man. On point. Nick Friedel for the athletic. I'll see you soon, bud. You got it. Look who it is. Tyrese Halliburton last seen on a basketball court a long time ago until last night in Ames, where you went to college, you made your return from Achilles, injury surgery.

How are you doing? How did it feel to be back with your team in a true, true on-court fashion? Yeah, it was first, appreciate you having me. It was, it was excited. It was a lot of fun for me to get back on the floor. You know, I think the preseason can kind of be like the dog days a little bit where people like, as like, as my careers went on, I'm like, the preseason like, can we just get this done with? But it was exciting to be back at Iowa State. I think that was the most important thing to be back at, you know, where I went to college. and very special place to me. And then just to be back on the floor was a lot of fun. I feel like you don't get that experience with practice or pickup. Like that's just completely different.

And I had a lot of fun with it. And I feel like I learned a lot. And it's good to get film on tape, no matter what, good, bad. And, you know, part of the journey of having a lot to learn. Is your post-sgame, like physical routine, treatment routine? Is it different now than it was before the injury? like what do you have to do with anything that's new? Yeah.

I wouldn't say it's anything completely like super different. I'm like I've always been a, I mean, I have a lot of good vets. Harrison Barnes and, you know, Tristan Thompson and Corey Joseph and guys like that and who and Buddy He'll do, you know, plays every game, right? Like these guys who take care of themselves. So I've always, every since my rookie year, I've been pretty good about that of getting massages, getting in the tubs, doing all those things. So post game is pretty much the same.

pregame, there's a little more that goes into my lift and my movement session of getting my body ready than there typically has been. But for the most part, it's pretty much the same thing. How do you feel? How does your leg feel day after a real NBA game? Yeah, honestly, good. You know, I haven't really dealt with any problems, really at all with my legs since having surgery. You know, a little soreness here and there, but I feel good. I think yesterday was more about getting my win. Like even when you, like, even every year I've played, those first like four minutes before that immediate timeout are always like,

oh my God. But yesterday I was like, I am dying. And, you know, like we play fast, but obviously Minnesota's playing much faster with Lamello at point. So, you know, it was just, the game was going fast. I think for everybody because it wasn't just me second win. So it made me feel better that there were more people tired than just me. All right, so fatigue is one thing.

I watched the game, half the game. I thought you looked like Tyrese Halliborne. I thought you were changing directions pretty well, moving off the ball. Like the ball was popping. But like for you, what did you feel like in terms of basketball? What are you furthest behind prime peak Tyrese Hallibor? Like, is there a movement? Is there a skill?

Is there a part of your game? It's like, all right, that felt good. This I got a ways to go. Yeah, I would just say readjusting to the speed. speed of the game of live action stuff. I talked to Jason for a good while last night about it. Like he said when he came back, it's like the game is going fast.

And there's really no way to replicate it, like pick up and practice. It doesn't really do it for us. And for me, I'm a, I feel like I'm a pretty fast processor. You know, like early in my career,

I used to say sometimes like, man, the game is moving fast. You know, all rookies say that. Like the game's moving fast. And once it slowed down, everything opened up for me. Well, obviously, the game has slowed down for me for a long time.

And yesterday it was the first time in a while that I felt like, ooh, I'm moving kind of fast. So that's going to be the biggest adjustments for me just having to, like, slow back down, especially with Zhu, too, like, I think from the most, like, tactical standpoint to talk about it. Like, Zoo is by far the best screener I've ever played with. He is a guy who hits people. He enjoys it. He is great at it. That's why he's had such a great career.

and I'm used to play with, obviously, Miles, who's a guy who was like an early out guy, a popper, and with Zoo, because I was playing so fast, I kept coming off so open, but looking down in my feet and seeing I'm one step in front of the three-point line. And it's like, do I just shoot five horrible long twos?

Or do I try to just play the right way for now, make the safe reads, and do all those things? And as time goes on, and I start to slow down, get my feet right where I can just, shoot the three off to pick and roll or work to get downhill. I had a couple of times I came off and picked the ball up and like the step in front of the three-point line.

So that's going to be the biggest adjustment. And I feel like it'll come with time. Now that I know that, I'm seeing film for it. Like, it's something I'll prepare for him. So I've been covering the NBA full-time for 15, 16 years now. Your playoff run two years ago, one of the coolest things I've ever been around. I was at the Knicks game one. I was at all the Eastern Conference Finals games,

all the finals games, all the shots, all that. So this is my long-winded way of saying, like, is game seven something you could ever get over? Have you, do you just not think about it? Like, what is the process of, obviously there's the immediate trauma, there's the halftime locker room, there's the tears afterwards around TV and all that.

But like, a year and change later, like, is there a point where, is there something you have to do to, like, close the book on that? Or is it just not something that can work like that? Yeah, I don't think it's something I can work like that. Honestly, I think that book will forever be open. And I feel like it's not just me, but like anybody who goes to like a traumatic life experience,

it's really hard to move on from. And for me, I've said many times, like, I was at the peak of the game, you know, feeling the best I've ever felt. And from a basketball standpoint, that whole run, but let alone just that night where I was, I was feeling so good. And so it's something that would be hard for me to get over. but you know what I talked to other guys who have lost in the finals obviously different experiences but I've talked to guys who have like Jason who lost the finals went on to win the finals and he's like

I think a lot about that Golden State series and some I think about a lot because I wish I had that one too and he's like I'd never stop thinking about it and I'm the same boat I just got hurt you know what I mean but I'm in that same boat where at the end day to me obviously it's seven game series and I got hurt in that game and that's the game they're I don't want to talk about we could have won, but like, I think a lot more about game four. Oh, we're going to talk about that. Don't worry. We're winning going into the fourth.

Like, that's been the hardest game for me. So, like, I haven't really rewatched much of the finals, to be honest. Like, what's been put in front of what I say on social media or, you know, if it's on TV or whatever, or you're watching the run, whatever. But the game four game is somewhat, I think about a lot more than in game seven. Do you let yourself believe or, maybe do you just flat out believes we were going to win the championship? Yeah, of course.

Of course I believe that. I'm a competitor. I wouldn't have wanted to play in any of those games that I didn't believe we were going to win and think something that everybody saw with our group is, I don't think anybody could watch our playoff run and say, hey, these guys conceded at any point in any game. They just believe that they were going to lose. So let alone that game, like we were winning to have,

we played a good game from top to bottom as a group. just, I feel like if I'm out there, things change. So, yeah, I mean, of course, I view it that way, and I'll always view it that way. Nothing anybody could say, any social media backlash from these comments, nothing could change my mind. I don't care. But we've got to move on. Like, I'm going to have more years of my career to, you know, hopefully chase that,

chase that dream again. So, you know, we'll get that opportunity again. I'm a strong believer that everything happens for a reason. And, you know, I'm more than, more. than ready for what's to come next. It's not funny. It's funny you mentioned game four because when we got worried you were going to do the pod, I was like, looking back at the playoff run, I mean, I'm at the,

I'm at the choke sign game. I'm at a bunch of the games. It's like I want to go back and rewatch the fourth quarter or the second half of game four because I remember being at the game. And in my, so one of the reasons I rewatch it is like in my head, you guys were ahead by more in the fourth quarter in game four than you actually were. But it felt viscerally. I mean, I remember vividly sitting there thinking, they're fucking going to do it.

Like, they're going to be up 3-1 and this is going to be a wrap. And you're up by four, I think, with like two and a half, 250 and change. And then just like a bunch of stuff happens. There's nothing crazy that happens other than a couple off ball fouls. But that was the game. It's funny you zero in on it because that's the one I zero in on is like that swung the series to me. what sticks in your crawl about that game?

I don't know if you have a specific thing you remember, if there's a shot you remember. You have a step back three over Chet that doesn't catch rim late in the game, but you have a lot of other great plays, obviously. What do you remember from that? Yeah, late in that game, there was a lot of one-on-one possessions between me and Chet.

They got two or three where I shot at three, some at the rim, something else happened. It was obviously an elite defender. But, I mean, you were saying, on time as a basketball player, but like, you wish you could get those back, you know, to make a different decision, make a better play. I feel like I was at, like I said, the peak of my game in terms of closing games. And so, like you said, to be a four-point game with two minutes, like, that's closing time.

It's time to win. And, you know, I feel like I could have done a much better job of closing that game. And it's something that really bothers me because it's like if you go up 3-1, the pressure of game five changes. and, you know, obviously, game five is where I reaggravate the calf injury. And so everything kind of changed from there. And, you know, we were at a time, we were at a point where that series was about who could win two games in a row first. You know, that's what it kind of felt like it's somebody's got to win two in a row.

Because if not, we're going to win because we won game one. So somebody's got to win two in a row. So game four, you know, lose that game and then lose game five. That had been the first time we had lost two games in a row, I think, since it's like, January. We hadn't done that in a very long time, you know. So that's the game I wish that I could get back, you know, more than anything. I know we're supposed to move on, but that's the one I wish I could get back. But another thing I had forgotten was how physical the matchup with Dort was. And I had even forgotten. Someone was like, you got to rewatch the free throw when Dort like throws him on

the ground. Like, I don't even remember that. It was like, oh yeah, he really like threw your ass on the ground during a free throw. Like here's Benedict Mathrim was shooting a free throw. And all, all of a sudden you're on the floor. I'm like, man, he was really like every step off the ball, there's like contact. He made it hard for you to get the ball. I mean, that is, that's what must have taken something out of you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, they have so many, they have so many great on ball defenders.

I feel like, I mean, I were seeing it now at Case of Walls is he should be getting paid here soon. Another elite elite, elite on ball defender. Caruso is a guy who battled many, many years, obviously with him being in Chicago. So I feel like what they, what they. had was the capability to throw multiple defenders at a lot of us, especially me. And I think Dagnoll is obviously a great basketball mind knowing that he can't allow me to bring the ball up freely, especially at that time with the way I was playing. So I feel like they did a good job, you know, top to bottom defensively.

I feel like we were doing a great job defensively to obviously Shea is who he is and Dove had a great series as well. So, you know, I feel like going into that series, people didn't expect much. But I think that when you look back on it, you'll, especially as a, As time goes on, I think people realize how elite and how special basketball is being played at the time from both sides. And that's made it fun. There's also a Shay push-off late in that game on a baseline jumper that... That's the one that Pacer fans will never be able to get over.

That's the one that in when we do the POE meeting this year and they talk about the push-off. I'm waiting for that clip to be shown so we can ask a question. Clip never gets shown. No, I was going to say, I had my art version. of that meeting with one of the, with Amazon Prime because I do some stuff for the MSOs there. And they didn't show that one. But I think it could have been in,

it could have been in the montage. All right, enough, enough of this. This is a, this is a very similar team in terms of personnel with the one big exception in the middle in that zoo. Going from a shooting center, a five out center to a more interior oriented center. It seems like it would be a big adjustment.

I honestly thought you guys looked really good last night offensively. like is it less of an adjustment than maybe I thought it was going to be? Obviously it's different and it's adjustment not just on you but on Pascal and how he has to space. But do you, after a real game, like how are you feeling about that part of your team? I think you just hit the nail on the head where like it's much less of an adjustment than you or any media member or anybody talking basketball would think. Obviously it's different because we played like we were so five out like Miles is a guy who shoots a lot of jumpers. He gets a lot of top.

I think he's led to the league and top of the key threes every year that we've played together. And it is different. But I think what we do such a good job of is outside of Miles, when Miles didn't play, we had Isaiah Jackson,

we had Thomas Bryant, Tony Bradley played a lot for in the finals. It's not like we have never played with a big who's more of an inside threat, right? And we've done a great job, and I think the league is doing a better job of taking bigs and spacing them to the corner so if it does hit, it's quick to an uphill DHO,

or their guy stays in the paint to help. They corner cut, and if you don't hit them, then you have the skip every time. So I have no worries about it, especially because of Coach Carlisle and Coach Pierce from the basketball minds that they are. And Zoo's buy-in has been amazing, and he's a really smart guy.

I think that's what people take for granted is he's not a dummy. Like, he understands, hey, if I'm at the top of the key, I shouldn't just be floating here if there's action going over here. Maybe we go setting away screen. I go set a pin down. I get the catch and we go right in the backside. Like he has a brain.

He's a really smart player. So I feel like it's going to look great. And I think what it helps us with two screening, obviously that we talked about, which he's elite at. And then having another post presence, Abbe Pascal is such an elite post player. But Zoo is as well.

You know, so, you know, if you could throw it to Zoo, and we're in the middle of figuring out what our post spacing is exactly going to be. But for me, I tend to be the post-entry pass to Pascal I have over the past couple years. I feel like I've got really good at being able to pull over in front if people want to help.

Because I don't think that teams really want to dig or double off of me and have a rotating defender where I get to make the read on a rotating defender. So typically teams will rotate from whoever the other high guard is, but I which could be drew or double a or Kelly or whoever is in the game jeres whoever's in the game at that time but I think we're doing a really good job of figuring out this is new in a sense but we've had to learn how to do it with Pascal now we're just doing it with a five you know so I like it because teams are I don't think teams are going to be able to cross match as much I feel like we've played teams like Boston Missoula and you and I may used to cross match us a lot put Jason on miles put um Centers on Pascal. Exactly. And then just, you know,

have them take, you know, long twos and contest and kind of try to analytic their way out of it. I think that it's going to be really hard to not put your five on Zoom. So that'll be, that's an adjustment for defenses as well. He'll put your ass in a basket if you put a wing on him. All right. Very important.

The National League Championship Series is going to start soon. You had a very much publicized falling out with the Milwaukee Brewers, your childhood team. are you back? Have you reconsidered that you had like you just said I was a brewers fan now I'm not then you threw out a first pitch for the Cubs are if you really made a clean break with the Brewers you're just out yeah I'm out wow I can't be halfway in halfway out I'm out completely out I'm a Cubs fan uh obviously lost the Padres the Brewers are you know congrats to them but no I'm out and the thing is like I got I get absolutely killed on social media and people are telling us that people are telling us that people are telling us. me how soft I am, all these things, and how I'm holding a grudge against the whole state of Wisconsin and all this junk. And that is not the whole state of Wisconsin. The brewers are an organization. The books are an organization. These are organizations. They don't rep—they're not the whole state. So when people want to, you know, group all those together, it makes me laugh.

You know, you can't reply to everybody, but it is what it is. Is it because they cancel the first pitch on you, right? Didn't they—the brewers throw out. We were like, this guy's become public enemy number one in Milwaukee because of all the buck stuff, the game ball, the playoff series, dame time. I got to say, man, like the dame won, was it in Vegas? I think it was in Vegas. It was a tournament game. When you threw the dame time watch logo at him, I was like, all right, he's really not messing around. He's going for all the smoke.

Like, did you regret that or was that like, no, in the moment, did you think like, oh, wow, I'm actually doing it? Yeah. Do I regret it? No, because it was, uh, obviously. a lot of fun for our organization and the run we went on in that in season tournament was a lot of fun. And it just added to it. So it was fun. I think what I do regret more than anything is like what me and Dave's relationship has become because he was a guy who checked on me a lot early in my career, especially when I got traded and we talked a lot and I got his permission to like be

announced as a letter, oh, because that's his thing. And I, we were supposed to, I was supposed to talk to when I was in Portland, I got shingles, I ended up going to Portland this year. But, yeah, I think I would love to have a conversation because I think it just became more than it ever needed to be. And I understand it's a miscommunication. And like, put it on me, right? I was young in the moment. I was having fun with it.

But it was probably a little much. And, you know, whatever happened from there happened. But he's a guy who I have looked up to, you know, majority of my life. and part of the reason I wear zero is is Damien Lillard. So, and obviously we both went through the Achilles thing. And so, you know, it's a guy that I would love to, you know, at least be cordial again because obviously there's a lot of stuff

going on the playoffs, but it's love on my end, for sure. Do you feel like you have a real rivalry with the Knicks? Obviously, the Pacers do from Reggie Miller and on. But, like, do you feel like you have a rivalry with the Knicks? And the reason I ask is because all of us, spent the whole spring summer waxing poetic about the Knicks magical run, this crazy run they got on, the best point differential in the history of the playoffs. And every time I would do a podcast about it, I would get a couple of Pacers fans telling me,

hey, you know who they never beat? The Pacers, just keep that in mind. Do you take pride in that? Is that something you talked about or you felt as the Knicks were like doing this? You're like, hey, man, I wish we were there because we kind of had their number. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take away from. the run that was because it was, like you're saying, I was not saying, but as you guys, it was amazing to watch what they were doing, especially after they lost that Atlanta game.

Everything from then on was like complete dominance. Like, kudos to them. It was an amazing run. I hope that we get to play them again. We get to play them in the playoffs because I want to play the best teams. And I think the Knicks of defending champions, everybody should want to play them. And I think it was kind of the way that. I viewed Boston as well when, obviously, they're still a really good team, but when they had

the team that just won the championship and beat us in the Eastern Conference Finals, I was jealous of the Knicks that they got to play the Celtics and they beat them. I was jealous. I was like, I wanted that to me. I wanted to play them because I want to play, you know, the best team. So that's kind of the way I'm looking at it. Of course, obviously I want to get to the playoffs and do all these things. I want to play the Knicks, of course, because they're a really good basketball team and like a rivalry with the Knicks. Like, yes, the Pacers Knicks is always going be a thing. I think rivalries are all for like storyline

purposes and stuff, but do I feel like us against the Patriots or us against the Knicks is good basketball and will I pick my team to win the series? Of course, as they would do themselves. But, you know, I'm looking forward to playing against all these good teams and yeah, I would love to play the Knicks in the playoffs again.

That calls for good basketball. If you could pick any WWE superstar past or present and have their entrance music, be your entrance music when you appear as you have done several times on WWU programming, who

would it be? That's a great question. It depends where I am. Depends where I am. I get booed in a lot of places. You do. I get booed in a lot of places. So I really don't know. I think what was fun at the Garden in this recent time is Seth Rollins, I came out to his music and people were like happy.

And then when they saw me, it was like, immediately like people were angry. you know, so it depends where we are. I enjoy the booze. It's fun. Like, I get booed in a lot of different places. So that makes it fun for me. But obviously, like, we were at Indy,

and we were somewhere where I knew I would get cheered. John Cena as, like, the most legendary theme song to me. I had his album when I was a kid. It's a platinum selling album. So I would definitely pick John Cena's theme song. Obviously, you're probably not contractually permitted to do it, but you and Jail and Brunson appeared on a show to, at least one, I think maybe twice.

Have you ever, like, would you ever dream of a, like, like, I wish I could actually take a bump in one of these segments. Like, so, like, I would love to have to undertake or choke slam me. Or like, what's the bump you would want to take? If, like, if you knew you were going to not get injured, you could take any bump, what would it be? Put me through a table. Wow!

Put me through a table. You know, I think it's fun. Like I said, it's fun to be the guy who gets booed. and so I would love to go to a place, get booed, kind of be on top, and then end up through a table. Or it would be also cool to do it in indie where I'm actually cheered

and I get put through a table and the heel gets booed. There's good heat for him, you know? So that would definitely be number one for me. And I pitched it to Triple H a million times and he has not been a fan of it. So I, you know, there will be a time. It has to be, you know,

we have to win a championship. because, you know, when you win a championship, everything in that summer is free game. Like, you won the championship? Yeah, Kat got to hit people, right? Kat got to, like, do a move or something, didn't it? Yeah, you have a choke slam. It's free game from there.

So we won a championship. I think you'd count on me taking a table bomb, for sure. All right, last one I'll let you go. I just, you know, watching you guys play last night, I was joking on an earlier segment. Like, I almost was trying to send signals to Pascal through my television. Like stop playing so hard, man.

It's only preseason that he's flying around out there. You guys looked like pretty ready to start the season. I'm sure it's like in the head of a fan, I'm sure people would imagine, oh, they're talking about like revenge for 2025, getting back at it. I don't think those conversations happen like that directly. But do you sense like a real hunger among the guys who had to live through last season and you had to live through it in your own way? Like let's get to fucking work.

Let's go. Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of coming into this year. In the past, we've had a lot of videos come out from, like, our summer stuff. And we went in the media and talked a lot about, you know, these are our expectations. These are our goals. This is what we're trying to do, yada, yada, yada. It's not that anymore.

I wouldn't say it's that. It's, I think we know our expectations as a group. We all come into the year saying, we want to win a championship. That's our goal. And we're 100% believe it. And I think it's special now because we're in the first time where our fan base fully believes in. You know, going into two years ago, I don't think that they necessarily believed that it was possible. And that makes it fun.

That makes it fun. And coming off a year like last year was miserable for a lot of us. A lot of us dealt with real injuries. A lot of us dealt with real life stuff going on. And it was just not fun for really anybody, anybody with what's going on. And so coming here is obviously a fresh restart, but I think that we, you know, we're still like,

you got some younger guys, but I feel like we've got to have enough guys who have played some real meaningful basketball games. So I feel like we have some real leadership to a point of, like, guys understanding, like, let's approach this the correct way. Let's build our habits. Let's not pretend like last year didn't happen

and there wasn't a drop-off. Because I feel like if you do that, you're doing the whole last 12 months of disservice. Like, there was a drop-off. Offensively, we weren't, you know, playing is fast, we need to defensively. Obviously, we won 19 games. There's obviously a big job off of every, every aspect.

So understanding that and kind of recorrecting it. I think that's been the great part about our group. And any team who has success, you have to be a player-led group. And I feel like we've done that at a really high level. But I feel like right now, obviously there's conversations of you guys, one with Chip Chabella's things. But I think the cool part was yesterday at halftime. We were like three minutes left in the game.

It was like, we were like, You know, we knew we only had three minutes. We're like, let's try to win these next three minutes. Like, let's try to make a little game out of it. We got to have time. We were all in there. We were talking about what we need to work on and what we need to fix. And I was like, man, we need to slow down, do, da, da.

There was like an awkward silence in there. And Pascal was like, yo, it's fun to be back, fellas. Like, it's fun. You know, we're all doing it. We're all kind of like, yeah, it is fun to be back out here as a group, you know. And we have, you know, a really good group. So, man, I'm really looking forward to the year that it's going to be. And last night was a lot of fun, man.

Like, I feel like we were both playing really high-level basketball and Minnesota, especially for early preseason game. It was a lot of fun. So, and I'm just really appreciative to be where my feet are. I'm back on the court. Tyrese, I think every NBA fan is happy to have you back. It's been a while. It was great to see a play last night.

I know he's busy. Thanks for taking a little time joining us. And I can't wait to see you guys in person. But best of luck, stay healthy. And let's see the old Pacers back. Yes, sir. Appreciate it, bro. Thank you, sir.

All right, that's it for today's episode. Thanks to Nikaias Duncan. Thanks to Nick Friedel. Thanks to the great Tyrese Halliburton. Thanks, as always to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. And thanks to you all for listening to and or watching. The Zach Lowe Show will be back with a new episode early next week, twice a week going forward as the NBA season is almost upon us. Thanks, everybody.

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