The Zach Lowe Show - Kawhi Is Headed Back to the Raptors! Plus, Where Will LeBron Sign and Ja Traded to Portland

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Zach is joined by Rob Mahoney to discuss the Kawhi trade, LeBron announcing that he will not return to the Lakers, and Ja being traded to the Trail Blazers. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show!(02:56) Kawhi traded to the Raptors(22:59) LeBron is leaving the Lakers(29:14) Rob and Zach's ideal teams for LeBron(46:33) Ja Morant traded to the Trail Blazers Host: Zach LoweGuest: Rob MahoneyProducers: Jonathan Frias, Michael Szokoli, Mike WargonSocial: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, mid-sized business. We see your big ambitions, but how do you achieve the wins you want when your technology is holding you back? SAP Grow is built to grow with your business, no matter its size, with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, all ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Coming up on the Zach Lowe show, well, that was a day. in the National Basketball Association. Kauai Leonard is a Toronto Raptor.

Again, for Brandon Ingram, some draft picks and Grady Dick going back to the Clippers. The Kauai PG era is officially over in Los Angeles. Who won the trade? How good are the Raptors? How good is this roster in Toronto? What holes they need to fill? Is this Kauai's last stop in the NBA?

How will we remember the Clippers? How big of a failure was this era in Los Angeles? and how did they do in this trade? Have they pivoted well enough with Zubots Hardin, Kauai, PG, all gone, other places in a totally new era, blank slate, clipper steam. How do they look? Hello, Keaton Wogler.

Another era, LeBron James era in Los Angeles, that's over. He's not going to be a Laker. He might be a warrior. He might be a cab. There's a Dean Wade signing that happens in the middle of this podcast that we react to.

He might be a heat. He might be something else. Was his tenure in Los Angeles a success, a failure, either, where is he going to go, where should he go? And then we get into everything going on in the NBA. John Moran, Jalen Duren, Jalen Brown,

Domana, Subonis, the Blazers, the Grizzlies, tons into the thunder, the heat made a couple signings. The Nuggets have been idle so far. The Pistons have been semi-iddle status quo. Just a ton of stuff going on. Rob Mahoney is here to help sort it all out a big, big 48 hours in the NBA in the books all coming up on the Zach Lowe show.

The Zach Lowe show. It's Tuesday night. Free agency just started air quotes three hours ago. And it has already been a monumental 24 hours in NBA history. Two separate but interconnected eras of Los Angeles basketball are over. LeBron James told the Lakers, it's not you. It's me.

It's us. I'm leaving. I'm going to play for another team. TBD next season. Is it the Warriors? Is it the Cavs? Is it the heat? is it other we will see and the los angeles clippers after seven star crossed years traded kawai

leonard back to the toronto raptors for brandon ingram two unprotected first round picks grady dick a pick swap and two second round picks toronto where in one season kawai leonard won more playoff series than he did in seven with the los angeles clippers continuing one of the strangest careers in modern NBA history. Rob Mahoney, I want to start with Kauai because it's a trade. It's done. We know where he is. We can react to it.

This was a tough situation for the Clippers. Ever since that Zubat's trade and the hardened trade, it's been a look in the mirror and say, we don't really have it anymore. This is over. Kauai has one year left on his deal. He had a certain amount of leverage in this situation. He made it knowing that there were places he would go, places he wouldn't go, places he would extend, places he would not. Toronto, familiarity, success.

Alex McKekney, the medical director there is probably the secret MVP of all of this, was one of the places that he said he would extend. And I believe the only one in the end that was actually interested in trading for him. The Raptors were bidding against mostly the Clippers' willingness to keep Kauai Leonard and just say, okay, if you don't meet our price, we'll keep them. In the end, this is where they settled. Where would you like to start on this, Mr. Mahoney? I would like to start, I think, with the Raptor side, honestly, because they were already quite good. And I would say Kauai gives them exactly what they need in a way that is frankly a little bit terrifying to me. And so I'm very eager to see them in

action with Kauai back in the fold, back in the city, a cult hero in Toronto to say the least. And I'm eager to see him back in a Raptor's uniform. I mean, obviously, when he was healthy last year and he was healthy for the last, you know, whatever games of the season, he played 65 games last year. He's one of the seven or eight best players in the NBA, a legitimate first team, all NBA player, a massive upgrade over Brandon Ingram. By the way, there's some wonderful symmetry here between the championship team, Kauai Leonard played for and this one. If you trace the lineage of how we got from point A to point B, it traces from Pascal Seacum and the stuff that they got back for Pascal. Alciakim, including Bruce Brown and a first round pick that became Keaton Wagler of all things. Then they traded that for Brandon Ingram.

Then they traded Ingram and more stuff to the Clippers today. So there's some nice symmetry there between the old Raptors and the new Raptors. The starting five presumably will be Emmanuel Cookley, R.J. Barrett, whose extension now becomes a very interesting piece of business for a Raptors team that is much more win now than they were eight hours ago. So, Kauai, Scotty Barnes, probably Yacapurtle, but when it comes time, maybe Colernery Boyles. And boy, Kawhi, Scotty Barnes, the Scotty Barnes we saw in the playoffs in particular. And by the way, this does not happen if the Raptors don't have a successful season and a successful-ish postseason. when Scotty Barnes with kind of everything in shambles around him other than Colin Murray Boyles,

not only rises to the occasion on both ends of the floor, but proves to the world, you want 45 minutes of play to exhaustion two-way play at an elite level. You want me to try to carry you by myself over a really good team. I'll do it. None of this happens. This Kauai deal doesn't happen if those things don't happen. Kauai, Scotty Barnes, and CMB defensively together.

Oh, my God. Throw Jamal Shed in there too in some lineups. Like they're going to be hellacious, just grinding teams to dust. Off the bench, we have Jamal Shed, Jacobi Walter still here. I'm a believer. I'm a Jacoby Walter guy. Me too. Cmb.

That's the top eight. After that, we're talking Jamison Battle. The Graves kid, they get just drafted and some fill in the blanks as they approach the first apron here. I think this is a really good team. Fan Duel upgraded them to like fifth in championship odds, but in a big tie with like Cleveland, Denver, Minnesota, a bunch of other teams. The East is going to be really good next year. That's one of the stories that's, but we're going to see what happens with Boston and Jalen Brown and some other things.

But there's a lot of good teams in the East, but they have announced themselves as like, look, Kauai is like one of those guys who there's no, there's never any fit issues. He elevates everything around him. He has no weaknesses. He can shoot. He took way more threes last season. He's purely additive in every possible sense. is it worth ingram and most notably i think the haggling ended up being how many unprotected picks and when and the clippers forced them as far out as possible 2031 and 233 kawai will

probably be out certainly be out of the NBA by then scotty barnes will still be in the NBA but they they forced them way out there to get the worst case scenario and play rob mahoney assuming the raptors extend kawai he's only eligible for a two-year extension, which, by the way, great for the Raptors. So only two years? Perfect. We can't even out. Sorry, man, we can't give you three. We can't give you four.

Our hands are time. Assuming there's like a two-year, $100 million extension coming here. Is this a fair price? Is it worth it? Is this team good enough? You know, it's more than I thought any team would give up for Kauai. Just because he is an elite player, as we described, an elite player who's availability just looms over everything,

causes a lot of problems. I think it makes total sense for the Raptors, though. And it makes total sense with that extension. If you're talking about yet another short-term lease, Kauai Leonard's situation, that's a different return. That's a different package that you're putting together. But for three years of Kauai potentially, with this team, obviously up and rearing and ready to go in so many ways,

Scotty Barnes being ahead of schedule as a star, C&B being ahead of schedule as a real disruptor and a two-way player, frankly. I don't see a reason why the Raptors shouldn't have been emboldened, why they shouldn't have been trying to push in, if not with Kauai, then with something else. So why not swing big? with a player who is beloved in the city, who clearly works alongside this supporting cast,

replacing, I'm going to say, your least engaged defender in the starting lineup at Brandon Ingram with an absolute hellcat, someone who can create so many problems, and exactly the sort of half-court offensive weapon they needed. It just, he fits, he fits this team in so many ways. Can you recreate on the spot? Actually, I think the Raptor should do this.

I think at the introductory press conference, they should ask Kauai to do the last, again. Can you do the laugh? Uh-huh. It's almost painful the way he does. It's coming from a really dark and tortured place. I think it's fair. I mean, I understand why the Raptors did it. They still have plenty of draft picks to work from and even swaps to work from. By the way, I expect them to be aggressive. If not this summer, then toward the trade deadline if the team is good, I think

they will look to upgrade more, perhaps at the center position. But that's down the line. I do think it's obvious, but it must be acknowledged that here are Kauai's games played since his last year with the Spurs. 65, 37, 68, 52, 52, 57, 60, 0. I missed a zero in there. And nine. And even more so, I'm not.

I mentioned that the Clippers won three playoff series in seven seasons. They have not won any since 2021. Zero. And in that time, when you look at why they haven't won any, in 2020, they missed the playoffs because Kauai was injured. In 2023, they lost to the Sons in the first round. Kauai missed part of that series. In 2024, they lost to the Mavericks in the first round.

Kauai missed part of that series. In 2025, he was healthy. They lost to a very good Denver team. Last year, they're in the play-in because Kauai was not healthy. part because Qua was unhealthy at the beginning of the year. Like this, this is great on paper for all the reasons that we've already discussed. I just,

is he ever going to get through for a playoff series? Was that one Raptors year with the shot that hit the rim four times against Philly, the championship, the finals MVP, the second of his career? It looks more and more like an anomaly with time. And yeah, Alex McKekney is there.

They know how to manage him. They're going to get them through the regular season, the way they did back then. But if we're talking championship equity and playoff equity, like it just feels pretty hard for me to believe that he's ever going to get through a playoffs healthy again because we just haven't seen it in a while. And I just feel like I have to throw that caveat out there.

It's a big caveat. It's not just the games played. It's the grind of the playoffs that takes its toll. Even so, I think the price is worth it for the Raptors. Even if I'm skeptical that this team is going to win the championship. championship with Coli Leonard or maybe even make the finals, they certainly have the ability to do it. I think the price in Ingram, who is basically a fungible semi-expiring player and two draft picks and some other stuff. And Grady Dick is not nothing here. Grady Dick's a good reclamation project for the

Clippers. I think the price is worth it and this team has a chance to be very good. I think no matter what the Raptors did, even if they made some other aggressive move, they were going to be a long shot to make it through the east. And so why not if you're going to be the lower probability team that has to have some things click right for you to win, this one is proven. Like you know who Kauai is, you know how good he can be, you're not rolling the dice with a distressed star on another team and hoping they can be better for you. No, you're just hoping to get the version of Kauai who played last year and hoping you can import him into this team.

And yeah, he needs to be healthy, but I just don't see that as being that, like, dramatically less likely than any other path they would have taken with this team at this point. Yeah, I think it's totally worth it. By the way, I mentioned the Pacers first round pick. Sometimes it's fun to retrace the journey of these draft picks. Would you like to retrace this one for me? I would love it. The Raptors acquire it among many other things,

but they acquired this particular pick that becomes Keaton Wogler. They acquire it for Pascal Seacom. They trade it to New Orleans for Brandon Ingram. New Orleans trades it back to Indiana to get back into the first round and then Tyrese Halliburton gets injured like two days later. Indiana then trains it to the clipper. top five protected, boom, it's, or whatever, top four protected, boom, it's five. And it becomes Keaton Wogler.

Quite a journey for that draft pick. Here's a question I posed to you. I mentioned that I thought the Raptors were bidding at the end, basically against the clippers willingness to just not do a deal. I do think there is truth to the reports that Kauai made it known that Dallas and San Antonio were two other teams that he would at least consider signing an extent. with. Neither team appears to have pursued it really, just, you know, not on their timeline, whatever. And so the question I asked you was, give me a team or two that you think could have,

would have, should have, just said, forget it. We'll do exactly what the Raptors did all those years ago and just take them on a rental come what may. Did you find any teams that were in position to do that? I honestly think that the teams that make the most sense in that way are teams we've already sort of discussed. Like I'm with the Celtics, Jalen Brown, conversation as that stuff goes. Like, why not Kauai in those circumstances? But he's just such a particular kind of player given the injury wrist to talk yourself into that even if, like, LeBron, you could put almost anywhere and he can fit and make

sense for a lot of different teams, even with all of the LeBron size considerations that come with his reputation and his history and all that. But I don't know. Like, I don't know that Kauai, like, if you're the sixer, sure, like you should take a swing on a conversation like this. But how do you make it worth the Clippers time? That would be a whole lot of draft picks or returning the picks that the Clippers traded you for James Harden. The Clippers, by the way, still do not control their first round pick, I believe, for the next three seasons, which is another boon, perhaps for Oklahoma City.

They get to swap picks with the Clippers in 2027, I think, I should probably check to make sure that that's right. But, yeah, Oklahoma City. And also it makes the Clippers immune from caring about the relegation zone if their pick is relegated. and they certainly are a major total rebuild work in progress at this point. They don't really care. Here were my rental teams. Boston was at the top of my list. Jalen Brown being the obvious piece.

This is a problem. Hold on. Okay, three, two, one. Boston was at the top of my rental teams list. Obviously, Jalen Brown would have been the piece. I mentioned it with Pina even two days ago, kind of your problem for my problem. And I could see,

I said then, I could see both teams arguing over who should send who draft compensation, what picks, how many picks. The Clippers, I think clearly wanted picks more than a present day player, although they could flip, they could flip Brandon Ingram for picks.

Now they could have flipped jail around, but whatever. I don't think that was ever seriously discussed between the two teams. I think it's just too messy. These things, it's a monumental, you know, it's a monumental thing to contemplate. The only one other ones I could think of were the Cleveland Cavaliers, who can only trade one future first right now, but have Jared Allen and could put together the salary.

It's interesting. There also have some apron issues that they'd have to deal with. The Denver Nuggets, who I think right now at 10 Eastern time, are to me maybe the most intriguing team remaining, in the offseason, including, at least in my theoretical dreams we will talk about later, as a LeBron James destination. Again, theoretical dreams. They've got a lot of big salaries. They can move around. I don't think that was ever discussed. What about Houston? Houston could have done a Durant-Kawai deal. Yeah. Or Fred Van Bleet plus Jabari Smith is almost an exact

salary match plus some draft compensation. I don't think that was ever seriously contemplated by the Rockets either. Those were my only, hey, should you dip your toe into this one maybe? Is it worth the short term upgrade to do it? And I think some of this is also like you will hear people around the league ask, I mean, they ask me, are like, do we know what's happening with the aspiration investigation? Or like, are we sure that this would be a good idea for us? Obviously, Toronto thinks it's a good idea for them and I'm sure that they did their due diligence with the league office. But those were my only

rental teams. The Clippers. I don't know. Any reflections on this era of Clippers basketball, Rob? I mean, obviously it's like Darius Garland, Brandon Ingram, a bunch of like it's tempting to say maybe they held out too long

and should regret losing Paul George for nothing. But I thought they did great in the hard and trade. I thought they, and I said this before they even got the pick. I thought they hit the Zubat straight out of the park, even though I think Zubats will help Indiana. And I think they did pretty well with this trade, too. Obviously, the era did not turn into what they wanted it to be.

It turned to do exactly what Oklahoma City could have wanted it to be. It should and will go down as a failure, a worthy attempt and yet a failure. But I think they've done pretty well pivoting away from it here. I think that's the way to classify it. And I mean, the Grizzlies are kind of in this conversation, too, where there's, there's an original sin that is maybe like slightly delayed versus what would have been optimal. And then from that point, getting off of the right guys at the right time to get pretty

substantial halls for the hardened types and the Evita Zubat's types. And yeah, it puts the clippers into a different sort of holding patterns. They figure out what kind of team they want to be, which of these core pieces are actually core pieces or not. I think Brandon Ingram, with all due respect, has proven he's not really usually that guy. Like, he's the guy who is on your team when you're not really, playing for anything serious and then when you start to get serious you trade him for kawai leonard i i see it though more as like garland and wogler and this like a young core that is interesting enough and most

importantly those refresh picks that they desperately needed they did well pick wise they did well in this trade i think toronto paid about the max it was willing to pay and i think it's worth it and the only team toronto is maybe worried about in this rental conversation in the back of their heads was boston but i don't think they had anything to be worried about and the jail and Brown situation I've done to death already. It remains as of this moment unresolved and we will come back to it. Toronto is going to be super fun. They got to round out their team a little bit.

They have to, you know, figure out if Graves can play, if Jackson Davis can give them meaningful minutes. Those are now important depth pieces for them. Do you think, I mean, you mentioned the RJ extension kind of in the air here. Yeah. Do you feel like he is as important to this version of the team as he was to the previous version because he was quite good for them as a slasher, connecting dots, as a facilitator, but he is more ball handler than he is spacer.

And I could see them having the conversation of like, do you try to move off of Barrett, not just because of the extension, but because you want someone who's a little bit more of a pure off ball presence of the two now with this being the construction of your team. Yeah, I think again, they will be pretty active at the trade deadline ahead of the trade deadline next year. And it could be with that piece. I will say, and I've always thought this about RJ. he's an easy player to take for granted because of the things that he doesn't do well. He doesn't shoot the three as well as you'd hope though.

He's had times where it's like, oh, is he nailed, is he mastered it? And then it'll dip off. He doesn't defend nearly as consistently as you'd hope. And yet he's always just helping out. Like he always, he's a very adaptable player. He can get off the ball a little bit. He can do a, he can cut a little bit. He can be a second side driver instead of a primary driver.

Like he finds ways to contribute. And to me, I just think it's. all about the price point. Like he's making $30 billion this year. You know, you know what his agents will do. They'll go in and say, hey, he was one of the most consistent all around players on the team. His plus minus is X, Y, and Z. He's making 30 now. He should make 40 on his next contract. And to me, that's like a no-go. But if it's a fair deal, he's a good player, easy to take for granted. And I think with an upgrade in shooting from Brandon Ingram to Kauai, I mean, Kauai is like an all-time shooter, an all-time shooter who now is just launching threes.

I think he actually fits better with this group. And he's also like, Emmanuel quickly is not exactly barreling to the rim over and over again as a point guard. So they need kind of a head down driver. He's really the best on their team at it in a lot of ways. That's where I'm with you. Like it's kind of reintroducing to the Raptors all of these philosophical questions that come with Kauai of do you try to find players who fit the Kauai version of the team perfectly? do you try to find players who fit if he misses 30 games that help you get by in those moments even more effectively? And, I mean, R-T might be kind of straddling that line as best as you can find under the circumstances.

I think this is going to be a really good team, really fun. I think it's absolutely worth the risk. Toronto fans should be over the moon. It's a cool story. Like, of all the places, like, not that many people have chosen Toronto. and Kauai not only went there unwillingly and now wants to go back and maybe end his career as a Raptor. Yeah. And like, and I'm not even like what in the theoretical Hall of Fame where you have to pick a hat, is this hat a Raptor's hat now?

Is it a Clippers hat? Is it an aspiration hat? Like, what's the hat? It's got to be an aspiration hat. Like, let's be real about it. Who's signing the checks, you know? It's an interesting question. Speaking of hats, I don't have any thought more.

Let's move on. I will say someone posed this to me today. If Zubots were still on the Clippers, would there have been some sort of Jalen Brown, Zubots and other stuff plus Picks trade package? But alas, that ship has sailed. Good try, Clippers. It didn't really work out.

Well done. Streetlights versus Spotlights. We never even got to see the Lakers and the Clippers play in the playoffs during the streetlights versus spotlight. era. Speaking of the spotlight era, LeBron James is not going to be a Laker anymore, raising a frenzy of interest in where he's going to play.

And for how much you will be playing for. And boy, just the quotes from people familiar with LeBron's mindset today, it's just like it's warm and fuzzy. It's like from the therapist's couch, he's going to choose happiness. He is. He's choosing, he's gotten to the end of the rom-com and he's choosing himself. He's choosing him. He's choosing happiness. He's going to be, I'm just reading. He's going to be patient

and open-minded about it. He's going to choose happiness. Happiness, I should note, very, very much a synonym for joy, which has been the watchword in Golden States and Steve Kerr. Yeah. Maybe they're using it tongue-in-cheek. Like, we can't say joy and make it obvious, but we can say happiness. These days, though, happiness, I think, is well over the second apron. Like, there's some real financial where he's trying to sign with happiness right now. I really want people to find happiness and joy. And apparently he decided he could not find it with the Lakers and he will find it somewhere else. Question one, Rob Mahoney, eight years with the Los Angeles Lakers, one championship, a couple of absolutely seismic trades.

Seven playoff series wins in eight years compared to three for the Clippers and the seven years when Kauai was there. is this a success for the Los Angeles Lakers and for LeBron James? Yeah. Like unquestionably, yes for me. I think, look, win a title? Absolutely. Eight years in a city in which you have six playoff appearances, you have the title, you have the Western Conference finals run, you have six all-N-B-A teams during that time,

all successes. Also, I think some of it is just about context. Like, yes, LeBron James is an all-time great play. player and you may think eight years with an all-time grade, you have certain expectations that come with that. He's an all-time great who was 33 to 41. And I think if you look at even the greatest to ever play from 33 to 41, I would put this up there as, I mean, maybe it's not quite Kareem level.

That might be the gold standard for this particular age bracket, but as good and as productive as you could possibly expect from someone under these circumstances. And frankly, some of this as a recent transplant to Los Angeles, I just do not understand the Laker fan relationship with LeBron James. It is like deeply strange the way that, like how, how clearly and easily he's disregarded, like the way people talk about him as a legend. And it's like, I don't know, man.

He won a title. He did really well during his time here. He is the reason Anthony Davis was traded to Los Angeles, which is thus the reason Luca Donchich was traded to Los Angeles. I just really don't see the hesitation to call this anything other than a success because you won it all while he was here. I think it's a success. I'm a little less enthusiastic about it than you are,

but it's clearly a success. Here's what I would reject. I would reject calling it a failure because if you win a championship, it's not a failure. I would reject the notion that I've seen elsewhere that, oh, well, I mean, this just shows trading all the young guys they traded for Anthony Davis.

That was a mistake. That was not a mistake. First of all, like the young guys in that trade were Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram, Julius Randall went separately. They just renounced his rights. He wasn't in that trade. A draft pick that became Dianne Hunter and another draft pick that I believe became Dyson Daniels. On balance, fine. That's before you remember that Anthony Davis got them, Luca Donchich, which as insane as that is, it's a thing that happened and it's set them up

for a long time. I also would reject it as a failure just based on success, They won a championship. And if you go through, if you go through the years, they missed the playoffs this first year there. Then they win the championship. 2021, the sons eliminate them in the first round. That's the J. Crowder salsa dance series. I'll never forget that. Anthony Davis was hurt in that series.

And then the crossroads moment. And I think how you regard LeBron's tenure is at least a little bit touched by how much blame you lay at his feet at Clutch's feet at Rich Paul's feet. for the Russell Westbrook trade. And we can relitigate that forever and ever and ever. But combined with the players they lost off that championship team in 2020, the Danny Greens and Alex Caruso's and on and on, with that trade, which completely fucked up their whole team and their asset base and has had ripple effects ever since,

they were kind of drawing dead as a championship contender from almost that moment on. And yet they still make the Western Conference finals in 2023. Then the Nuggets sweep them, the Minnesota Timberwolves, after Luca gets there, beat him 4-1, people are hurt in that series. And then LeBron kind of goes out with a bang in his final season with the Lakers, upsetting the Rockets in the first round.

Durant hurt, obviously, but everyone on the Lakers hurt for a lot or all of that series in some cases. I think it's a success. I get why it feels weird. Like, it just kind of feels, it feels weird. It feels a little weird to Lakers fans.

You came late in his career. That's the thing. The championship was the bubble championship. And Lakers fans know, I've always been a pro, Bobball Championship is a legit real championship. Nothing's wrong with it. No, asterisk, no nothing.

But it still felt weird. It just was weird. The people were in their Zoom windows, cheering you on. It was just weird. I think it does count as a success, though. I'm with you. Yeah, I mean, he was wildly successful, given where he was in his career,

the second oldest finals MVP of all time. This is what happens when you have an aging star on your team, even if it is an aging legend. And I think, I don't know, just like, we would never have this conversation about, like, what did Kobe Bryant do from his age 34 season on? And some of that is because there's the built in goodwill of a star who spent his prime with this team and in this city. It's different for someone like LeBron who's jumping in late in the game.

But from the moment he did, I think he pretty much paid off, if not the wild expectations that follow him everywhere he goes, certainly any reasonable ones. And now this divorce raises some questions. Number one, the Lakers now have a lot of cap space and how they use. use it is going to be very interesting and Luca Dantzich is going to be watching it very carefully. Rui Hachamura is a free agent. I think he's going to be on another team next year. Austin Reeves is obviously back. They're going to meet with a lot of centers.

Jalen Duren is reportedly taking a meeting with it with them. We'll get to his situation later. And Walker Kessler is reportedly likely to take a meeting with them. A boon for the free agent centers in the NBA, the Lakers having cap space. We'll see how they use it. And then the more fun conversation is where is LeBron going to play? Golden State without Anthony Davis, it looks like. Just, LeBron, you got to go on your own.

There's no package deal. It's just you, man. Miami and Cleveland, for nostalgia's sake, Golden State for the, hey, this will be fun. Let's all old guys team up and use our IQ and our genius and our synergy together to try to topple these young guys. off the throne that should belong to us. And then there's other and a whole host of others. The athletics, John Crosinski, my guy reporting that Minnesota,

just like Tim Connolly did when he was in Denver, is like, hey, if I can get a meeting, man, why not? Why not? We need a power forward. We don't have a lot of money to spend. We got a lot of young guys who just upended our front line. Why not? Is there a team?

Just take the, take all constraints away, Rob. Is there just a team that you think he would fit best on or you would like to see him go to just for fun? There are two, but one of them you just named and it's the Minnesota Timberwolves. The idea of who would you want around the mellow ball to get his head screwed on exactly straight? LeBron James is a great place to start.

What kind of young stars or great young players would you want around LeBron to take the load off of him? Okay, Anthony Edwards offensively, Jaden McDaniels defensively. plugging LeBron into that group with Rudy Gobert at the 5 as well, I mean, holy shit. Like that has all bases covered. It's super exciting.

Solves all of Minnesota's off like offball playmaking issues and facilitation issues. One fell swoop, kind of one size fits all, silver bullet solution for a lot of their problems. The other team, and this is, I mean, we're getting pretty pie in the sky on this one. But if you want to slot LeBron into the Aaron Neesmith role for the Indiana Pacers,

Wow. I mean, that's a team that really speaks to me. This is what I want for LeBron is like, who are the elite ball movers who he can draft energy off of and turn into just like the supercharged, forget like the Draymond role, like supercharged late stage Magic Johnson version of himself. And a version that has Tyrese Halliburne and Andrew Nemhard,

Pascal Seyakum and Avitsa Zubats, who we barely seen with the Pacers. Man, that would be super exciting to see. So it's funny. I mentioned my Kauai rental teams that I went through, Houston, Cleveland, Denver, and Boston. Indiana was also on my initial list, and I looked at their cap sheet, and I called around a little bit.

It's just they would have to have combined, like, four guys to get to Kauai's salary. It would have been pretty impractical for them. But the infusion of that level and size of player is super interesting for a Pacer's team that is very deep. That's a fun one. Mine is, I like the Minnesota one is great, although it does. give rise to the Danny Glover lethal weapon. I'm getting too old for this shit meme.

Like of just like, LaMello did what? Like, would LeBron even understand Lamello's text messages? Or would he just be like, I need Bromny here to translate this man because I don't understand what these messages say. Speaking of Brony, Bronny and Luke Kinnard, both just,

Bronny's left behind in L.A. And Luke Kinnard just signed with the Sons, which surprised me a little bit. I thought Luke Kinnardt kind of found a home with the Lakers' Two years 13 with the Phoenix Suns. But who at all has a home with the Lakers right now? Like it is Luke and Austin Reeves, obviously.

DeAndre Aiden picked up his option. Jake La Ravia, congratulations. You're now like a full-time maybe starter on this team. Like they're just short on bodies right now. Well, I mean, I talked about this earlier in the week when we discussed the Reeves max contract, which is a contract you have to do in Austin Reeves. I heard you talking about it is just like a phenomenal offensive player.

Yeah. And what he did when one of Luca or LeBron was out was like, oh, he just averaged like 30 and eight on super efficient shooting. Defensively, it's going to be a challenge. But look, if you have Luca and Reeves making $100 million combined, filling out the rest of the team is not going to be easy. They have draft assets to work with. But this center position thing, Aiton is clearly not it and not the answer.

I'm interested to see how serious they get with some of these restricted free agents. And if they at least make one of these teams eat it, with an offer sheet. Like I think, what do you think of Walker Kessler? You know, when there was a report in the athletic that things were a little strained with Utah, I said, I can't remember who I had out as my guess, but I said, like, I think people would be, I had the number, but I didn't have to go ahead to, like, say the number, but I knew the number was like $27, $28 million a year, average annual value.

And I said, I think people would be surprised that, like, Walker Kessler was turning his nose up at the amount of money he's being offered. And Tony Jones and the athletic reported today that he's expecting deals in the 30s, like the mid-30s, maybe even high 30s. I like Walker Kessler. I think there's some offensive potential that is untapped there. The three-point shooting, I think whoever, whatever team he's on will continue to say, hey, can you try it?

Defensively, he's a beast. But like, that seems like a lot of money for Walker Kessler to me. For someone who is still so hypothetical, right? Like, guys like us will come out here and say, like, oh, who he, could be as a room protector, who he already is as an offensive rebounder. He certainly had like the high water marks offensively in terms of just converting easy stuff. He also doesn't really expand his offensive game at all other than those occasional threes.

Like he's not someone who has even come up into the high pain and been like a threat with a floater or any kind of short roll game at all. He's had stretches of his career where he's had like total crises of confidence in terms of his ability to finish around the room, which is a crazy thing to say when you look at, oh, he's a 65 to 70% field goal percentage finisher, but he's had stretches where he will shy away from even trying some of those attempts. That's a problem, and it's also the kind of thing when you're on a Luca Donchich team,

you straight up can't do. So I both fully believe the best version of Walker Kessler could be unlocked by someone like Luca and by a team like the Lakers. But at that price point, it's a little aggressive for someone who has basically no proof of concept playing actually competitive basketball. We've got a very important text right now from my sister-in-law, Paola. I'm going to shout out Paola on the podcast.

She's a Toronto Raptor season ticket holder. She texted me the trade. You know, just FYI, Palai, I knew about the trade. She says, for real, not sure what I think of this. Interesting. I think maybe, you know, goes back to, it was a little acrimonious when he left and Uncle Dennis was making demands left and right.

I don't know, like, what do you do if you're Toronto if Uncle Dennis strolls up and he's like, hey, where's my credential? I remember how I roam the back of the halls and get to go wherever I want. I'm actually kind of being serious. He's like, is he, I don't know what to do with him. I don't know what I don't know.

Is it not part of the package? I thought it was a two for two. You know, Kauai for Kauai and Uncle Dennis for Brandon, or for a, like, I just assume he's part of the trade ultimately. I don't know, man. I guess. But that's why the San Antonio one was quite interesting to me, If you think it was acrimonious in Toronto,

it was way more acrimodious in San Antonio. Yeah, Lakers are going to have an issue, building a team, but that's fine. They have Luca Dachic. Like, that solves a lot of problems. It's still all gravy for them to have been able to have been gifted this. My dream, here were my dream LeBron teams. I had Indiana on my list, too.

Let's just go through some of the ones that are already out there. Sure. Miami. Am I wrong to just be like LeBron, Bam, Janus is like a little clunky? Is anything clunky with those guys? Clunky is probably the wrong word, but it's not, it doesn't strike me. I'm even going to say it's not what Miami needs, but Miami needs everything. Miami needs all the talent it can get.

It's clunky, but clunky in the way like washing someone smash a whack-a-mole game with a hammer until it dissolves would be kind of clunky. Like, yeah, is this the best use of everyone's time? Is this exactly how you're supposed to play this game? Maybe not. But do I want to see those three guys together? Absolutely. Okay, you know what?

Yeah, that's a good one. We'll get back to Miami later. Cleveland, James Hardin, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen. I don't know exactly who's still on the team here, but it's just, there's always a lot of James Hardin happening in any James Hardin team. And I'm not sure I want, I'm not sure I love that one either.

I don't either. And I also don't love like, I guess Evan Mobley, you're now defending threes full time. that just doesn't seem great for anybody. San Antonio Bill mentioned I like that one. I don't necessarily see that happening. The Golden State one, I mean, it really all depends on how they fill out the rest of their roster. Like, I really, as great as LeBron and Steph Curry still are, and as synergistic as we've seen them be in their brief, like, supernova appearances together for Team USA.

Their two-man game, all of that. I mean, the Steph Durant two-man game was unstoppable and, like, barely tapped into really by the Warriors. LeBron, by some measures, was the most efficient pick and roll screener in the league last year, according to the tracking data that I'm looking at now. There's just, you know, like a lot of questions is Jimmy Butler ever going to be healthy in time for the season for this particular season? You know, Draymond Green spacing, all that stuff, depth. I mean, they just re-signed Porzingis two years, 40 million with the player option. I kind of like that deal for them.

It's a bit for, I don't know, Chris, that's Porzengis makes me very nervous. Moody's going to be out for a lot, if not all, the season. Like, I don't think there's, I don't think that team is a title contender. Again, four, four playoff series at that age is very, very hard, but it would certainly be fun. Mine was Denver and just plop him in Denver and just, oh, you just want two of the all-time genius passers in history to play off of each other. And, and you know, LeBron respects Yokic's appear, basically.

Definitely. And Denver again looms to me as the most interesting team remaining on the board in the offseason for just an out of left field. We got to change something and it's got to be a big change kind of thing. But I don't think those are – I thought about Houston. I don't know how they could make it work, but just plop them in there for some decision making, whatever veteran – veteran guile. Boston, you can make the argument. But if it's warriors, calves, heat, This was a heated debate today on NBA Twitter.

Like what's the appropriate best, most literary, most fitting way to cap his career of those three? Going back to Miami, mending fences with Pat Riley, Heedles again, going back to Cleveland for a third time where he's from and brought the end of the 50 year title streak, 50 whatever year title streak. Or a new adventure with the rival that he crossed with. over and over again in the finals and it was cantankerous there for a little while between Steph and LeBron. Is any of those more apt for you? I think so. I appreciate the narrative closure of the other two.

But this is where like I'm treating this more as an epilogue, I guess, than as the actual final note. And some of that is like, I just want the new adventure. I just want the lizard part of my brain to get to watch. Steph Curry and LeBron play together on an ongoing basis in the regular season. I don't think like obviously teams like Cleveland and like Miami would be in the hunt in a way that Golden State is not. But I'm kind of down for chasing joy.

I'm kind of down for embracing that part of this experience for him, for Steph, for all of us. There's a magic to them playing together that I think would always be a shame if we never got more of it. And I want to see it even if some of them get hurt along the way. I want to see it even if they peter out before they can go on their fly. playoff run. I just want to see more of it. And I get the appeal of the other two, but there's just a part of me that cannot deny wanting that specific combination on the floor as much as we could possibly get it. I'm going to say this up front. I don't live in Cleveland. I've never lived,

I've never lived in any of these places. So I have no, I have no sort of hometown tug of nostalgia for any of them. If you're just asking me as a basketball fan, which of these seems the most fun to me to watch and mix that with could you realistically win at some interesting level, I think I would rank them Golden State 1, Miami to Cleveland 3. I just don't, something about the Cleveland and all the dribbling and all the guards, it doesn't quite feel as fitting to me. And I'm with you. Like these two guys have circled each other, Stefan LeBron, and played opposite each other,

played with each other in the Olympics. I said this with Bill the other day. I don't know if you remember this, Rob, in the 2016 finals. I mean, remember, it got like heated. Like the Halloween party where the Cavs Halloween party where they made fun of the Warriors and the 3-1 lead being a gravestone and all that. I think it was game six in Cleveland. There's a LeBron block on Steph at the rim.

It's an all-timer. Where he flexes with a nastiness and a cruelty. And just like his body. language is just, just remember, I'm fucking way bigger than you, and it's still my league. And I'm kind of offended that people have a little guard as my equal or perhaps my even superior in some corners. And I will not accept it. And to see them come full circle and use their gifts to lift each other up would be kind of

fun. Well, especially how clearly LeBron has wanted this, even before the Olympics. Like, they started this flirtation years ago in terms of floating it or like, oh, what if we're paired together on these all-star teams of various constructions. To go from that, like, not only was it a flex, but a shrug, and you're right, the energy of that moment is like, this fucking guy, like, are you kidding me? This is the point of comparison. It felt like a message to everybody, to the NBA media, to the unanimous MVP voters,

to all, it felt like just a message, like, it's still my league. And that that is one dot, and that the dot we experience now could be, these guys are so eager to team up together, that LeBron is going to take a massive pay cut. to make it happen ostensibly. Like, that's a journey, right? Like, that is a narrative that I think is worth telling and worth exploring and understanding the before and after of how we got to that point. That's compelling to me.

We have breaking news, Rob, before we take a break. Are you ready? Yeah, what do we have? Free agent forward, speaking of the cabs, Dean Wade, Dean Wade for all your accounting needs, has agreed to a four-year, $39 million deal with the Philadelphia 76ers. Mike Gansy's first order of business coming from Cleveland to Philly.

I need Dean Wade. I need Dean Wade on that wall. Give me Dean Wade. That opens up a little bit of flexibility for the Cavs. I'm not sure how much we're doing this on the fly. He's been a really important 3-and-D player for them. I'm just going to raise my fingers. Like, anytime the Cavs shed a little money

and open up a position that like the 3-4 and LeBron's available, I'm just going to like, I'm just noticing. That's all. It's worth noticing. what is it that he's bringing to the Sixers exactly? Like, I'm with you, especially on the deep. The rest of Mike Gansy's luggage, maybe? Well, I mean, that's important.

Like, really, like, honestly, a genuinely good, hardworking, competitive, defensive player, the three comes and goes can be kind of a zero offensively at times. But I guess they're going to kind of reshuffle their, their kind of wing and forward rotation around there and try to get a little bit more size. I got to be honest with you. I spend the Sixers are in like the bottom. bottom 10% of teams I spend thinking about just because they're in this Mb, George prison of their own making for so long.

And so, I mean, he fits there. He fits a need. He fits a need anywhere. But to your point, like, the time that the three point shot always seems to go is the playoffs and his minutes often go with it. Okay, but that was breaking news. We got Dean Wade taking care of. Let's take a quick break.

There's much more to talk about with Rob Mahoney. All right. a big piece of news from the last 36 hours that I have not yet waited. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming.

Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapy denim wide leg. The long John Morant saga in Memphis is over. John Morant has been traded from the Grizzlies to the Portland Trail Blazers for Jeremy Grant and Chris Murray. The Blazers now have the following guards on their team. John Morant and Damien Lillard, who according to Chris Haynes, the plan is to start them together. I would say any plan for next season that exists on June 30th is not really a plan at all, but it's not a good plan either way. screwed Henderson and Andrew Holiday are all still here.

Denny Obdia is still here. An interesting fit to say the least. And the end to an era in Memphis, the final sort of player from that court to be traded away, that started with such promise from like the very first game John Morant played in the NBA or one of the very first where he blocked a Kyrie Irving buzzer beater. And just from that point on for the next 24 months, it was just pure electricity.

And it seemed like not only were they, a sure thing to be a sure thing for a long time, but that he was exactly the kind of franchise building block that you wanted. He seemed to care about his teammates. He didn't play selfishly. He played hard. He cut hard. He enabled and lifted up his teammates.

And then it all went sideways. They won a grand total of one playoff series in the Jom Morant era. And now there were injuries to it all the time. When they lost to the Warriors in the second round, people were injured, including job. When they lost to the Lakers and the first round, the fall. year. Their whole big man rotation was pretty much injured. But still, one playoff series and it's over. Let's start with Portland. Because obviously Memphis was going to dump John Morant.

Yeah. They didn't have a lot of homes for John Morant. And I think it's a win for them to not have to attach any assets to get John Morant because they took back a contract that Portland was trying to dump in Jeremy Grant. It could also find no other homes for. But I think it's a win in that sense for the Grizzlies. A lot of scrutiny on Portland in this deal, both for basketball fit, for culture's fit, for the people who remember the jailblazers fit, for what is this new owner doing? Why is he doing this fit? Before I share what I think, what's your reaction to this from the Blazers perspective? I'm just kind of bummed out. Like for all the momentum that Portland established last season, this fun up-and-coming team, this incredible defense, all

of everything we saw with Denny Avdiah's development, even Scoot Henderson, like, popping at moments in the regular season in the playoffs. Like, I was really energized by what they were doing and eager to see, you know, add a couple pieces, add some supporting cast, like round out your rotation in a way that makes sense, all of that on board. John Moran, they already have, as you alluded to with Dame, like their high profile guard that they're trying to fit into this puzzle and make it work. Putting another one in just because you can doesn't strike.

me as like good proactive team building and frankly with a player like jaw like i understand the talent play but there is a tilting there's like a tipping point between oh look how little it took us to get him to oh my god look how little this team was willing to accept to get off of him because they were so desperate to do it like as you laid out the grisly story with jaw he was like a hero in that city and and for that franchise and he himself like cast such a dark shadow over the Grizzlies that they had to move on. They were forced to move on because of his actions and his decision making and frankly, the deterioration of his game.

And so, like, why would you be signing up for that when so many of the indicators within this young roster you have are pointing forward and pointing towards guys putting things together in their career they never have before? And here comes John Morant to take up oxygen in the room, to cast a similar dark shadow, to be an impossible fit with Dame. It just strikes me as, like, welcoming a huge problem into your team when you had absolutely no reason to do it. The words that I want to focus on that you said were the deterioration of his game and

of his health. Yeah. 20 games last year, 50 games the year before, nine games the year before that. Obviously, there's some off-court circumstances that cause that number to be so low. 61, 57, and on and on. The availability is issue number one. Issue number two is in 20 games last year, he shot 41% and 47% on twos. his rim frequency

dropped a little bit in the last couple years but not as much as people think free throws down all the stuff that made John Morant the explosion the ferocity

not quite there the same way and of course the other parts of his game did not round out at all in fact they got worse his three point shooting has plummeted 30% 23%

31 for his career his defense is a disaster partly due to effort partly due to his being slight of frame And so that's that's the more important point for me because for me like, is it wrong that I get what everyone is fretting about. All the guard overlap.

This team, the Blazers, built their feel good season on defense. He does not add to that. They suffered on offense because they had nobody that could shoot. He only exacerbates that problem. He creates a guard at glut. The departure of Grant creates a, glut, not a glut, a guard at glut, I think I said, a glut at guard. Jeremy Grant's departure creates a void at power forward.

There's not really a traditional power forward on the team, Tumani Kamara's closest thing in the rotation. So it's a little bit of an imbalance roster. Denny Avdia needs the ball and needs shooting around him. John Morant is like the opposite of that. Scoot Henderson's development is going to be hindered by this. So I mean, I get all the basketball reasons. I guess I'm just...

I mean, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Well, here's what I'm going to say. Two years ago, John Moran in 50 games, albeit average 23 points and 7 assists on 45% of shooting and 52% on Tuesday. He's 26 years old. Here's what I'm going to do for the Blazers. You got six months. I think the Blazers in doing this trade just said to themselves, he has two years left on his contract. So it's not a marathon contract.

It's not an albatross. Yeah. It's too enticing an upside bet for us to pass up. let me give you six months to figure out the rest of your roster because clearly this can't be the end game with all these guards you're not like last year was a feel good season after your coach got removed in a gambling probe and all of that yeah um i i think much in in a less rational more disturbing way than the hornets they looked at themselves in the mirror and said oh this feel good season what is it ultimately leading to we're not going to worry too too much about

the present build of this team if we can get a talent like this in the door and just see what the hell happens. And to me, I think I'm focused more on the see what the hell happens part of this than the here are all the downstream effects that could be bad for our team. Because I can make changes.

I can pivot out of this if it goes badly. To me, it's an up, like, if there's still anything like this borderline, all NBA player who has made an all NBA team before in there, I just think you do this trade and figure out the rest later. The off-court stuff is also problematic. So I get it. I get all the fretting.

I just, I can't get that mad at it. I'm sorry, I can't. I think if he were a normal basketball player, I would understand where you're coming from. If he were just a run of the mill, this is a star guard who can help a team or hurt a team and you can move on depending on what the contract situation is in time, absolutely. But the electricity that he gave the Grizzlies and then the electricity he sapped out of the entire operation there with his decision making. I get it.

Like it just feels different to me. Like to me, John Morant is the sort of radioactive that he can. It's not like, oh, we're going to either build a team that makes sense or not. Like, he could blow this whole thing up.

Like, he has shown the ability to walk into a team and sour it. I guess I don't agree with that. If it's going badly, I just banish him and I eat the money and it's fine. Like, it's not great. Yeah.

That sucks. But I'm going to give them. them six months to figure out their roster, figure out if Mike Anori can reach John Morant, and maybe hope that like some of the shitty defense, the non-effort, the attitude issues, the lack of like all out ferocity on offense was part of just like, I don't want to play for this coach. I don't want to play for this team. This team doesn't want me anymore. And this is the end game that we're and some injuries. And it's maybe it ends up being a disaster. But I'm, I think it's worth the risk for a Blazers team that is still kind of figuring out what they are.

And given what the price was, like Jeremy Grant's a solid player. I think he's actually become a little bit underrated. But I just, I'm not that mad at it. But the guy that I am most interested in in all of this is Scoot Henderson. Because that was an interesting last two and a half months of the season and an interesting start to a playoff series against the team that was wildly better than them than San Antonio Spurs. What was interesting about Scoot season to me was that he wasn't really playing point guard anymore. I think he averaged like two assists down the stretch of the season and less than that in the playoffs. He was very much playing off Obdia, off Holiday, and now would probably play off Damian Lillard,

who, again, part of the reason I'm not fretting about the John Moran thing is that I can't make too many decisions about my team centered around Damian Lillard at age 36 coming off at Achilles. tear. Like, I don't really care that he's coming back and what does John Maria do about that. But Scoot's development into some sort of like hybrid attacking semi off ball guard with a decent three point shot was kind of interesting to me and seemed to make his life a little easier as he's learning the NBA amid all his injuries. What did you think about his, his like last couple months? I went from really wondering how much of a future he would have in the league as a full time rotation player to being pretty bought in on the idea of what he could be. And I think some of it is, is not just playing off ball

and the improvement in his shooting alone, like the high water marks for him shooting the three during last season. I think really won me over and made me a believer in what he could become. Being in the Drew Holiday School of like, this is how you kind of handle the ball, kind of play off of it.

This is how you use your strength, your advantage for the first time in your career. Like, I feel like you could see some of the influence of having a guy like drew around. We just have to re-contextualize him a little bit from on-ball. pick and roll heavy prospect as he was slated to be coming into the league into maybe this is more of a hybrid guy maybe this is someone who really benefits from having other supplementary ball

handlers around him whether it's denny driving offense and him drafting off of it whether it's him attacking from the second side and being really good at it like kind of shockingly good at it in certain ways given how he grew up playing the game i'm i'm pretty in on scoot henderson at this point in a way that if you had told me that a year ago i simply wouldn't have believed you i guess what i'm saying is the way he played the last couple of months of the season makes me less worried about integrating another ball dominant player into the Blazers because Scoot Henderson became much less of a ball dominant player. In fact, he became a different kind of player than I think anyone envisioned him being. Yeah. And I'm curious about him because I'm not sure if that was him

just hewing to what the team needed him to do and what he needed to do to get minutes on the team or and whether it was like he enjoyed it or whether he still envisioned. himself is no, I am the guy that runs 40 pick and rolls a game and that's going to be me and I'm going to force my way into that role. To me, the Moran thing is worth the risk. I don't really mind it. I think it's Memphis clearly just turns the page, moves on and that's fine too. I can't believe I've become the guy that's caping for John Morant in this trade. That's like it's not a disaster for the Blazers. When he was good, I mean, he is the kind of guy who makes you believe crazy things about basketball of what a player is capable of, of what he can do.

to rally a team around him that might be flawed or might not have this or might not have that. You could talk yourself into the Grizzlies like winning some of those series where they were like horribly outmatched in some cases just based on his his moxie, his savvy, who he was as a playmaker. I think it's always been a really underrated part of his game. I just think so much of that for me has turned in seeing how how bad it gets when it gets bad. And just like the way that it took the wind out of the sales of the Grizzlies. Like I don't know that I'm getting over that so soon.

and a lot of it to me too is for everything we've said about, you know, giving the Blazers six months or giving them that kind of time frame to, to regroup and change the structure of their team. John Morant is a player you have to go through great lengths to build around. He is not someone who accommodates others very easily. Like he does need the ball in his hands. He doesn't have a variety of uses. Like he will make the scoot Henderson types bend around him.

All of that works fine when he is a superstar. And it does not work fine when he's just like a guy who is pretty athletic and not getting to the rim as often as you want. Maybe I like this whole idea that they're going to start him and Dame together is completely untenable. Like there's just no way to survive defensively. Are you trying to kill Tumani Kamara like genuinely? So I don't know what gives there.

Neither of those guys seems willing to raise their seems like a likely candidate to be like no, six man. I'm cool. Like you like Dame is old enough that it's not crazy coming off the injury to suggest that. Sure. Maybe also like Jod just needs to play 25 minutes a game for a little while as he gets his body back under him. And that's another solution here. But I would, I mean, to me, Drew Holiday has to start one way or another.

And someone else has to come off the bench. And Kamara has to start. And obviously Klingan has to start. Good business bringing Robert Williams back at three years 44. I thought he was like, how he outplayed Klingin against the spurs of the playoffs and it was generally really good in the regular season. How many players do we just say have to start? Like that's Tumani, that's Drew, that's Denny. Five, five, five.

I'm just saying, it's difficult. That's all. And then Shaden Sharp is like, who, is the new coach going to play me at all in the playoffs if we get there again? And I make $20-something million a year for the next four years. I hope I'm part of this too. It is a weird mix, but I'm okay with, I mean, Portland is a good place to be weird. Let's take another quick break and we'll wrap up with some other business. All right. I know you wanted to talk Boston a little bit.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandums. that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. Portland has been rumored as a potential Jalen Brown destination for a while. I think most of that was theoretical. I theoretically pitched the three-team trade where Boston would get Janice, Portland would get Jalen Brown and Milwaukee would get assets from both of them, including the picks, the bucks picks that Portland still owns now. The reporting on Portland and Jalen Brown has been all over the place. My best reporting has

been that they're not really involved, but I'm not 100% sure of that, and this is lying season, but that's where I would lean. I discussed Boston at length with Michael Pina two days ago that I think they're kind of stuck with a bunch of offers that they don't consider. that are good enough. I just know you want to talk a little bit about Jalen Brown. So, so say your piece. Honestly, it was less Jalen Brown. And you raised, I thought, some interesting Celtics hypothetical, some what ifs about their recent history that I wanted to dig into. Can we go for it? Yeah, sure, we can do that. So you put two what ifs to me that I've been kind of stewing on and I haven't been able to knock out of my brain. This is related to be clear. I forgot that I'd say this,

but this is related to the Jalen Brown situation, which is very clearly gone side. on the Celtics since he was out there in Yannis, they didn't get the honest deal done. And I have spent a lot of time thinking about like, what, what, like, why has this gone so sideways? And these are two what ifs that I propose to you. So go ahead. I will say one of them, I think, leads us to a pretty similar place to where we are now. And that's what if Boston just won game seven against Philly.

Like that one, I don't think changes a ton. Like, where do you see the division point? if they had won that series, do you think that men's enough fences? Do you think that sues enough egos where Jalen Brown is still a Celtic? Well, a couple of things about that. I pitched that as a what if only because it was so dispiriting how they collapsed against Philadelphia. Yeah.

And they were so exposed as a team that was too thin, small, talent deficient on the front line that it raised a bunch of emergency level questions. questions that were always hovering in the background that became like embarrassing emergencies. And one of the remedies was let's try to go get Janus. And this is the only really way we can do it. If they squeak that series out and lose to the Knicks in six games, does this feel different? Does it feel like less of an emergency? Now I think your counter is going to be all evidence suggests that the Knicks are not going to beat the Celtics in six games.

They're going to blow the shit out of them in four games, five at best. specifically, I think we had seen enough evidence and enough like forward progress with Katz role development already to that point in the Atlanta series that I think he would have created real problems for Boston if they were to meet. And I do think five might have been likely. And really, it just might have been similarly dispiriting in a way to just get wiped off the floor by a Knicks team that had so much going for it already. We also don't know like does Tatum play at all in that series? Hard to know. game seven that's the other one and the other one if i gave you was what if tatum just never gets hurt and they lose the nick series in 2025 in which they look like they were going to do they were

about to go down three one so tatum stays healthy they lose the series in six games what like i just wonder like what is the jalen brown never gets the taste of being the guy indisputably but they still lose the series they still come into this season with some apron issues with some question marks all the same trade all the same sort of salary trimming moves might happen what is like where are we now i don't know that's a fascinating one i don't know the answer to that that one kind of broke my brain because yeah i think so many of their financial decisions were rooted in jason tatems not going to play anyway so we can trade your holiday and cut bait with chrispspsf sporzingis and lose alhorford and we're just going to try to turn the page the way i remember

it was so much of that apron conversation was about okay they're probably going to have to make a choice between either Drew or Chris Saps Porzingis, but they might have the opportunity to keep one of them. Pre-injury. Yes, pre-Tatem injury and then in this hypothetical of Jason Tatum doesn't get injured. And it's like if they keep, let's say

Chris Haps Porzengis, or if he stays healthy, or they're able to convince Al-Horfer to come back either one, then it's like, Neh-Kada doesn't have a big breakout year. If they keep Drew Holiday, does Derek White not get overexposed offensively in the way that he did over the course of that season? And so there's all with these, like,

downstream effects of little successes. Like Peyton Pritchard is more of a sixth man in a traditional sense than he ended up being for that Celtics team. Like that's the thing you can't quite put back in the box either. There were so many younger guys who ended up having like, you know, like the honest trade conversations pivoting on whether Baylor Shireman was available is predicated on Baylor Shireman playing enough to be important enough to the Celtics to prove something in the first place.

And so I was like, I don't even know where we are if Jason Tative doesn't get hurt in that series. where we are now is a very uncomfortable position for Boston. And everyone has already discussed this to death of are they going to just have to get everyone in a room and hash it all out and bring them back? But because by the way, this is a proven championship caliber duo. And we know that it works despite the fact that it's gotten a little uncomfortable right now. And I just have reached a point where I legitimately don't know what's going to happen because I don't know what the Jalen Brown team is. Teams keep falling away because they've moved on and pivoted to other things.

Deals keep falling away like the Yonnas deal escapes Boston. I know some teams that were interested that are no longer interested for various reasons. I know some teams that I thought could theoretically be interested, have the assets to be interested that for various reasons like Houston, for instance, appear to not be and never have really been. So I just like don't even know what the team is right now for Jalen Brown. We mentioned Portland before. Wendy was on TV today on ESPN mentioning Cleveland,

which has been something that's been mentioned over and over again, including by me. And he was thinking about, he was saying, you know, Mowgli has been the piece that would have to move. Just there's no real other realistic way to do it. I've said over and over like Cleveland is not doing that. Cleveland is aware that that possibility exists and haven't done it. Wendy's point was if Mowbly for Jalen Brown entices,

LeBron and that's why the Dean Wade thing made me just, you know, take note. Okay. So maybe I spin it that I'm trading Mobley for both of those guys. But then I have Donovan Mitchell, James Hart and LeBron James, Jalen Brown. And it just that, that feels almost like fantasy land to me. Yeah. Is there a Jalen Brown angle that you like or you've seen or a team that's out there that you don't think has gotten its due?

Like Denver's been the wild card and I've talked about them already. I don't know what that deal looks like. quite yet, but I don't know. Anything strike your fancy? I like the Denver conversation because I think that that team does have to do something really radical. I think they had such like a wake up call in the playoffs that just rolling it back and presuming everything can be okay if Peyton Watson is healthy. It's like not nearly enough to rectify what's going on there. So I would love to see them getting interested in that conversation. I still like Atlanta as a possibility. And the trade package would have to be a little more

elaborate and frankly it might be impossible now that Jonathan Kaminga's salary is off the books but that was one I was always daydreaming about. Yeah, without comminga and obviously it's not going to be Jalen Johnson. It's got to be Dyson Daniels plus a lot of stuff plus picks. And the Celtics are probably going to want the lot of stuff to include Zachary Risa, because he's in a former number one overall pick and that's sexy. But they're also probably going to be like, but he's also been kind of a bust. so we need Nikiel Alexander Walker, too.

And it just gets a little clunky from there. But this is the problem, as you're alluding to, like teams are dropping out, not just because they've started to move on, but because some of these options have swung one way or another with teams and players. And now the salary math doesn't really make sense in the way that it did a week or two ago. It's hard to trade guys who make $60 million a year and are not one of the five best players in the league. It's just hard to do. One deal that has been mentioned, another piece of news today,

the jail and durand situation in Detroit, has gotten interesting in a way that was entirely predictable after he kind of crapped the bed in the playoffs. I don't think we've ever seen a player eligible for a Rose Rule 30% max extension on a team that was like, we're not going near that. And it was very predictable to see this happen. And now the games are afoot. Jalen Duren is taking meetings with teams with Capspace.

He wants to meet the Kings. The Kings are like, someone wants to meet with us. What a delight. Me? Really? And the Lakers who have cap space as well for potential sign and trade situations. It was floated that DeMontas Subonis would be going back to Detroit. I don't think anyone.

Why? The pistons are interested in that. Here's my read on this. I think Detroit is so far pretty unruffled about this. I think they're like, this is cool. Like you guys are doing all the leverage stuff. This is just like restricted for agency 101. Yep.

Guess what? You want to have a sign and trade? Guess who has to cooperate in the signed and trade? We do. We're not going to. So you can go get all the deals you want. We're not going to participate in them. The wild card is the offer sheet.

And I'm not sure who the offer sheet team would be. The Nets still have a ton of cap space. Sure. The Lakers are obviously the team that has a lot of cap space that can make it hurt. The Bulls still have like 30 million in cap space. that's not enough to make it hurt. I think Detroit is just sitting back here and being like, we're cool. And that's like, I mentioned Jalen Brown because there's been this idea,

could we solve all these problems with the Jail Endurn, Jalen Brown, sign and trade, mega trade. I don't see that happening either. I don't think the pistons are ready to just upend what they've got going on. And Cade and Jail and Dern are very close. My assumption is this is all going to be sound and fury signifying nothing. and he's going to go back to the Pistons on a deal that he's probably not psyched about. They're probably not psyched about.

That's the way it goes. But the offer sheet lurking, you know, teams don't really do this to other teams as much as they used to where they're just like, oh, here, here, here. Poison pill, everything bad, you know, trade kicker, every shortest possible contract. Here you go. Match that. But it still, it could happen. It could. I just, I mean, yeah, the playbook is all of those things, like what?

like a three-year deal with a player option at the end, so it barely guarantees anything is probably the structure with like as much money as you can throw into that thing. Gordon Hayward to Charlotte. Exactly. In this case, I will believe it when I see it. I just like, I think the math is tough for a lot of these teams.

The sign and trade is almost a necessary mechanic for some of the candidates we've talked about. And for Jalen Duren, like I think it's okay to come off of an absolute disaster of a playoff run and be squeezed a little bit. Like that feels like a reason exchange of yeah you end up in some kind of sweet spot where Detroit isn't thrilled as you said but it would be so much worse to come out of this with dramatically overpaying Jalen Duren

based off of what we just saw in the postseason than have some hurt feelings on both sides. And so far, you know, Detroit was on my list with Minnesota and Denver is sort of the most interesting wild cards of the offseason. Minnesota certainly went wild. And Denver still could. Detroit is really the sum total of what they've done so far is salary dump Isaiah Stewart, draft a Corey, and then re-sign Kevin Herder and add Isaiah Joe as shooters, which obviously, I think, puts a little bit of question where Duncan Robertson's fit on this team is, and he has a very lightly guaranteed contract for next year.

I think the Herder one in particular felt like, and granted, Kevin Hurder's shooting has not been No, Dr. Robinson's another level. Completely. A level as a shooter and was like essential for them the entire season and doubly so in the playoffs. Yes. But does a team have room for all three of those guys? I don't know.

But the big move hasn't happened. And by the way, Tobias Harris is still a free agent. They have his bird rights. I think they have some interest at some price point in bringing him back. Yeah. I would be a little disappointed is the wrong word. Just a little surprised if the. Detroit came out of this off season looking like more or less the same as they did after last season.

Would you or am I just like, are they're young enough? It doesn't matter. I would be too. I mean, that was the argument we were having all throughout last season was this is a team that is winning a ton of games that feels rock solid in certain ways, but also has clear definable needs. Will they preempt those needs or will they go through the process of kind of exposing them in the postseason as many young teams do? They got exposed. Like all the needs are laid very bare for not. as them to feel and experience and chase after,

but for the rest of the league to see it and acknowledge. So if not now, it would have to happen at some point in the season. Like you've got to start pushing chips and picks and, you know, Ron Hollins off your bench. If you can find takers for him or people who are excited about his future, there has to be something to string together here

to get a wing or a forward that actually makes the team feel more cohesive. TBD, I'll give them some time. Obviously, free agency just started. I do think it's interesting that it's been not a bang for them so far. despite this Dern thing getting kind of spicy. Okay, I'm assuming you don't have much to say about Julian Champany,

three years, 45 million to the Spurs. Thumbs up. Absolute thumbs up. We popped for Champany around here. Bones Highland, going back to Minnesota, probably, I don't know if it's a minimum, but it's not going to be much. Fine. Usman Jang, three years, 17.5 to Milwaukee.

I like the way he finished the season. Same. He hasn't been mentioned in the like Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe salary casualties of the Thunder, but he was quite good for the bucks last year. Speaking of that, I haven't spent much time at all on Isaiah Hardenstein coming back, three years 75, and Lou Dorts option being picked up for this coming season, which feels both interesting, maybe ominous, maybe not.

It does. And then they, I think they released Kendrick, Kenrich Williams, but there's a possibility they can bring him back on the minimum. All of this was like exactly the playbook that I outlined and others outlined for how can Oklahoma City sniff the second apron, maybe dodge it eventually, certainly cut hundreds of millions of dollars from its tax bill and remain competitive. Joe out, Wiggins out, Kenrich out, or at least at this number, Isaiah Hardenstein back, doort back. No notes. I think it's exactly what I expected. It's expensive. Guess what? Being a championship team is expensive. Mitchell Robinson

is Mitchell Robinson. He's the second apron piece for the Knicks. They're either going to have to decide we're going over it this year and trying to get back under it next year, which is going to be really hard unless cat takes a pay cut but boy oh boy mitchell robinson can feel like a luxury sometimes the minutes he plays and all that he's really really good it's interesting though that port port portland was the team that was in on him yeah time lord they're out now um but he'll still have suitors for sure as he should yeah i i think this one is vital not just in a keep the good like the good energy going and bring back the championship team but you're right like they are kind of compromised without him structurally like

Like he's so important to them in terms of his rebounding. It's so important to them in terms of like the way, the specific way he spells cat while challenging teams in totally different ways. That's not something I ever turn my nose up at. And if all it's going to take you is more money and decreased flexibility, like you just keep Mitchell Robinson and you figure out the rest later. I agree. And that just brings us to the last sort of major item of the day.

And I'm not talking about the Mets giving up it inside the park home run on the first batter or the game the other day, just the most embarrassing thing. This is a little one, but it's interesting. Tim Hardaway Jr. signed with the heat tonight. One year, six and a half million dollars, so they dipped into their mid-level exception. They brought back our guy Simone and Fontecchio. Hey.

Big tech. Off the bench. They are now like, I don't know. I'll just ballpark it like 10 million under the first apron in that day are hard cap there because of the honest trade, which means Norman Powell is definitely out. There's no Norm Powell return that's happening. And so he becomes an interesting plan.

I don't know what his home is. I think he has a home. I just don't know what it is. I mean, is there still room for him to be a piston potentially? Sure. I guess. The pistons have a ton of flexibility. And so that this is where we are then with the heat.

We need to redo the heat depth chart, post-ehanous trade and all this. Because Norm Powell was sort of wrongly, I think, penned in as a starter. And now he's like not there. I would put their starting lineup as, is Davy on Mitchell, Pella Larson, Andrew Wiggins, Janus, Bam. Makes sense. Which leaves me off the bench, Drew Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr., Fontejovich, Portis. Obviously, I can stagger minutes.

And Wiggins, by the way, came back on a opted in and then signed a two-year deal for much less money, it appears, than he was making. And then I've got Myron Gardner and Kashad Johnson possibly and some other pieces to play with. and they'll fill out, there's other minimum guys coming and ring chasing guys coming and buyout guys coming. Is that team good enough? No.

Honestly, weirdly enough, one of the spots that makes me oddly nervous is the Drew Smith spot where Davy on Mitchell's been really solid for them. Drew Smith is coming off of really the only healthy season he's ever had as a professional basketball player. And even then, I think he's okay. And this is a team that I think could really use a little bit of guard flexibility.

Pella Larson, a great connector, a really good fluid player for their system, makes a ton of sense. But, like, I would feel better about them if they had one more guard option I felt really solid about. And they just do not have that right now. Tim Hardaway Jr. doesn't do it for you coming off a borderline six minute of the year campaign. He was quite good. But I think I'm speaking more in like a ball handling capacity than just a pure kind of like gunner shooter. I think he's a good get for them. Yeah.

There's more coming. To me, like Drew Smith, Simone Fantecchio, as much as we love him, Rob, and Yovic, were rendered by Eric Spolstra unplayable in games that mattered and the play in games and all that. He just decided you guys are good enough to be on the floor.

So that's three of the five guys that we just said were coming off the bench for the heat. We're very recently rendered unplayable. Well, can I push back on that point, given the change in circumference? stands. Like, is that any different in a world where Janus is going downhill 20 times a game, where all of a sudden a Simone Fontechio is like, okay, this is a different thing than, you know, putting, putting him around the blender system we already had.

Yeah, that's a very fair point. I just, like, penciling them in as rock solid bench contributors on, like, a team with championship aspirations is I kind of, and I've always been high on Yovich clearly higher on Yovitch than Spolstra is because he doesn't play him. And Portis, the defensive decline has been pretty real. He's still a really good shooter on long twos and threes. I'm interested to see if they play him with Bam and Janus together, which is a kind of look that Milwaukee did not do much of, but their version involved Brooke Lopez, who's obviously much slower afoot and less switchable than Bam and Janus are.

So I think that's worth looking at. And I think they'll still obviously do some things. But it's a team that you make this trade for your honesty, you're trying to win the championship. I'm not really sure I see it yet. But especially like the East is every playoff series in the East is going to be hard. Like being a top six team in the East is going to be hard. Yeah.

I don't see it yet either. But I do think they are close enough that you can see the gaps in the rotation and think, okay, if they could just swing a trade for this kind of player, if they can just get, it was wing shooting, honestly. And I think Tim Hardaway Jr. certainly helps with that. Simonei Fontecchio, if he plays, bringing him back, helps with that. God knows they needed to keep Andrew Wiggins, who just as a two-way guy, is really critical for them. But if they can get one more big they trust in big-time games and one more ball handler, they trust to be a real rotation player,

I think it's coming together in a pretty compelling way. I stick by what I said right after the honest trade. Despite my concerns about their viability as a real true blue title contender, yet. anyway. I still think the risk was worth it because the present day situation was going nowhere. And I'm not sure what other star was going to become available in the near future who was younger than Janus, as good as Janus, fit them better than Janus. So I get, I think the opportunity cost was a little bit less painful for them, given that one potential path, just staying the course, was not going to lead to anything real until they found another star down the line.

So I think it ultimately is worth it. I think there'll be a good team. It's just hard for me to see like four playoff series worth of greatness. I think it would be tough. One thing I do want to hit though, because I feel like when we talk about the fit with Janus, a lot of the focus is on, okay, what are the ways this is going to be difficult or challenging or spatially complicated? That's all going to be there.

Him and Bam in particular, like they're going to have to figure it out. Bam is going to have to be probably an even better shooter in some ways or else they're going to have to put him in different spots on the, floor. It's also been a minute since Bam has had a real non-tyler hero style star that makes his life easier. And his job for the heat has been make everyone else's life easier. Like, right, move around the floor, facilitate these guys. We're going to put you here. We're going to move you up. We're going to make you a handoff guy. Now you're not. Now you're a spacer. I'm, I can't wait to see a version of Bam that gets to play off of someone like Janus, even with all those

considerations, even with the challenge is just, Janus attracts so much attention. And Bam is a guy who, if you give him any space, if you give him any flow or momentum, can do so much with it. I think that part of his game is really going to thrive, even if he's going to have to figure out how to navigate some tight spaces along the way. Well, as you know, I am the driver of the Bam wagon. So anytime I'm tired of people coming in this podcast, Rob, and telling me about when's Bam going to average 25 points a game?

Bam can't be a guy that you depend, just throw the ball to and score. Charles Barkley and Bam can't do this. I'm glad to finally have someone who comes on and says, hey, here's all the things that Bam can do pretty well. How about everything? How about every single thing? He's like pretty good at. He might not be as great at the scoring part as you want him to be.

But the heat of ask him to basically play point center, jump shooting guy, do everything on offense with this weird personnel around you. And we're going to change the system every year. And now we don't run any pick and rolls, but now we run a ton of pick and rolls. now we run none, now we play turbo fast. And by the way, one thing, we have to stop doing this. In the wake of the Yonis trade, I saw in real places, not Fantasyland like blogs about the heat.

Look, look, we know what I mean. We are of blogs. Well, the blog, I think the blogosphere has changed. That is quite greatly. I saw it written and said on airwaves that the heat. had the best offense in franchise history and the number one scoring offense in the NBA, and they were adding Janus and thus were going to just blow the doors off everybody. How are we still, how is any segment of speaking, written, verbal basketball media still so dumb

as to not just say the heat were an average offense last year. Their pace was obscuring the fact that they were 13s at offensive efficiency. Like people talk about this heat team, especially locally, like they're this offensive juggernaut. They were an average offensive team. They'll be better with Yonest. But they're not adding Yonis to the 2017 Warriors and just like, come on. I don't know where. Oh, Bam. Thank you for extolling the virtues of Ban. How about you, you're the fulcrum of our entire offense and please guard everybody on defense on every single possession and then score 83 points against the hapless Washington Wizards. Super easy stuff to do. But yeah, I think especially with Yonis teammates,

there's such a focus on like shooting, shooting, shooting, like how do we space the floor for this guy? It's clearly a critical component. I just think if you are, as you alluded to, B plus or A minus it basically every other part of the game, you do so many things to make winning around Yon as possible that I'm not worried about that part of the shooting. I just want to see it from the Tim Hardaway

and Simone Fonteciotypes. The last thing on Hardaway is it's like, it's not a meaningless loss for Denver. Not at all. who also declined a team option on jail and picket over the weekend and so have like almost no guards on the team other than Jamal Murray and kind of Christian Brown and maybe Julian Strother. Christian Brown who was bad, like just really bad last season. They don't, they didn't draft anyone. Like literally no one.

They have Spencer Jones and Peyton Watson among their free agents. They just don't like have a lot of players on their team and they have this Yokic thing which, you know, he's, He's not signing his extension yet. I said the other day, I think it's mostly nothing, but not like 100% nothing. It can't just be dismissed as completely nothing. I think he's going to be a nugget for life. He said he's going to be a nugget for life. But this is not one of those situations where everyone knows it makes more sense for him

to wait a year for whatever financial reason. I just can't wait to see what they're going to do because they have to do something and it has to be a meaningful shakeup to their team. And it may also have to involve cutting money because that's just how they operate. And it may also have to involve the assumption that, hey, I know Aaron Gordon is a critical component of our team and I am like Aaron Gordon fanboy number one. I'm not sure I can count on him to be healthy for a full playoffs, like ever again. How do I deal with that?

It's just like losing Tim Hardaway Jr. is not nothing for this team. I also understand why you're saying they may also have to cut money as part of that process because that's how they operate. I just don't want to excuse it. Like that is a realist perspective on what the Denver Nuggets do, but it also doesn't have to be that way. Like they could pay more,

they could invest more in the team, they could not cut corners. That's just what they do. And it sucks that that is a part of the calculus, but welcome to Denver Nuggets basketball. I mean, their roster right now is Yokach Murray, Gordon, Cam Johnson, presumed salary dumpy. Yes.

Still a good player, by the way. Like, disappointing last year in Denver, but like I'd like to see it again. I'd like to get a year of comfort. Even as moments in the playoffs too. Christian Brown, Jonas Valenthunis non-guaranteed contract may play in Europe next season

according to some reports. Probably cut. Zeke Najee somehow still not traded. Julian Strother, Dairan Holmes. That's it. That's their whole roster right now. Time to build out a team around,

you know, one of the best players of his generation, three-time MVP, finals MVP. But they did win a championship. and it's good that you got one. They got the one and it hadn't gone great since then. But I agree with you on Yokic and frankly, like, this is something you should do if you're

a player in his position. There are a couple ways that you can really leverage your power to put pressure on an organization to build around you in the ways that you might like. And I don't know if you're, if you're Nicole Yokic, how could you look at the Denver Nuggets and say, this is good enough for me to just sign up, sight unseen on a version of the team that is not going to look like this in a year or two years. Like you want to see movement, you want to see growth, you want to see not only the Peyton Watson's brought back, but some creative like management of the cap and creative management of the roster in terms of turning these into players that makes sense for whatever the next version of the team is going to be. They're just not there right now.

Like this can't be enough. Let's wrap real quickly. We gave the Clippers present and future a little bit of short shrift. Because it's really a total startover for them. Like, I don't think Brandon Ingram is going to be a long-term clipper. He might play the year out, but I would assume no sniff around offers for him. And we're down to Darius Garland. Derek Jones, Jr., Brooke Lopez is still here.

Chris Dunn is still here. They just re-signed Kobe Sanders on a four-year, 12-ish-million dollar deal, which I like. Grady Dick, they just acquired. I mean, Lopez and Derek Jones are, you know, whenever. They're not part of the next great clippers team, let's say. and Keaton Wogler, they just drafted number five. I don't, and obviously they're going to have all the cap flexibility in the world to chase star free agents going forward with the Inuit Dome and Los Angeles and everything that they stand for and all that. I'm waiting for one more name that I don't know what his injury status is, but to me is a core part of their team.

Yonik. Yonik Conan Niederhazer. Like, that guy's awesome. Good. Really good. And they're going to have infinite cap space. The thing about Cap Space is we haven't seen teams just like lure the two star free agents together kind of thing in quite a while. And you need to have good players in the door to do it.

They don't control their picks in either the next three years. The 27 is swapped with Oklahoma City. 28 goes to Philadelphia via Hardin Trade. 29 is a swap with Philadelphia via the same trade. Now they have all these extra picks that are very valuable. It's really a stunning level of like blank slate at this point. I mean, I know Garland has made an all-star team, but he really has to rehab his value. Yanuk Conan Niederhauser is a very, very good prospect, and so is Keaton Wadler.

And other than that, I'm like, okay, we'll see what great did Dick brings you, Kobe Sanders, looks like an interesting role player. It's kind of a stunning, like, whew, it's all cleared out now. Yeah. I think, when we talked about the Kauai part of that return, to me, the James Hardin one is really the crown jewel of this sort of, like, reboot is the way that he was able to come to the clippers, rehabilitate his own career, to be fair, play some really good basketball for them during his stint, and turn into the kind of player who they could actually get things

for on the way out gave them an exit ramp that I did know existed for the Paul George Kauai Leonard era. Like the fact that that turned into something that was a real mechanism for forward momentum and improvement, they needed that. They needed that really desperately. And to get this full haul of picks that gives you so much to work with as you try to figure out what to do with all these pieces. It's really all you can ask for to be in this situation, given aspiration, given the injuries, given Paul George's just like general whole state. Evita Zoobox is really like the one piece that they elected to move that they probably didn't need to to refresh. But even then, they ended up getting an incredible return for him. It feels really like not that long ago,

pre-COVID that we all woke up at three in the morning to this just earth-shattering earthquake wake of news. Kauai and Paul George go to the Clippers. And now it's all over and the Raptors are back is a legit, you know, threat to win the East.

Threat to really go on a deep playoff front. We'll see. A good deal for that. And Rob Mahoney, you got group chat coming up this week before the holiday weekend.

What else? We got the prestige chieve pod humming along covering Cape Fear right now, but I'm going to be honest. My eye is on the NBA. It's so active right now. It's so insane.

We got Kauai Leonard trades just kind of manifesting out of thin air. I have no TV shows to talk about with you. I'm out of TV shows right now. But yeah, it's NBA time. Are you going to, will I see you in Las Vegas? I think I'm actually going to skip this year, and it is heartbreaking to me.

But I am one of the few remaining Summer League devotees that actually does love being out there in the desert for as long as they'll have me. But just wasn't meant to be it for this year's schedule. You will pry my Vegas trip from my cold dead. Actually, my sweaty, gross hands out in Las Vegas. I love Vegas. I love Vegas in the summer. I might even hit Top Golf this year, Rob, Mahoney. Thanks, bud.

I'll see you soon. Listen to Rob on group chat, prestige TV, talking about art and whatever is going on on television. Severin season three coming in 2031. We'll talk about that when it comes out. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Zach. All right, that's it for this edition of the Zach Lowe show. Thank you to Rob Mahoney.

Thank you to Jonathan, Billy, Mike, and Mike on production. As always, thank you to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe show right now, as we approach Wednesday morning on the East Coast. The plan is probably to come back next week after the holiday weekend. You just never know if something bizarreo happens in the NBA. We might be back, but that's the plan. Everyone has safe and fun Fourth of July weekend. If that's the case, we'll see you next time on the Zach Lowe's show.

21 or over in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or 1-800 My Reset. call 1-888-78-9-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or is it MD-gamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-8-7-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-7-7-867.