The Zach Lowe Show - Knicks Take Commanding 3-0 Lead and What to Watch For in Thunder-Spurs!

Episode Date: May 24, 2026

Zach is joined by Michael Pina to react to the Knicks pushing the Cavaliers to the brink. They discuss what has made the Knicks so good, look back at how this team was assembled, and break down what��s gone wrong for Cleveland. Then, they reveal what they’ll be watching for in Game 4 between the Thunder and Spurs. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (2:19) Michael Pina joins the show! (5:56) The Knicks could win the title even against the Thunder (10:42) The Knicks built a better team around their small guard than the Cavs (19:11) Let’s take a deeper look at how this Knicks team was built (25:12) This may have been Harden’s worst defensive performance (26:32) Does Cleveland have any chance to come back? (29:33) What to watch for in Thunder-Spurs Game 4. Host: Zach Lowe Guest: Michael Pina Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy Gil Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's up on a special Saturday edition of The Zach Lowe show. Michael Pina is here, and you know where the New York Knicks are? One game away from their first NBA finals in 27 years. The New York Knicks, the Knickerbockers of New York City, the greatest city in the world, are finally on the doorstep of making the finals again after a fairly emphatic road win in Cleveland to go up 3-0. Michael and I talk about the game, do the Cads. any chance to get back in this thing. What does the sweep mean for the future of the cabs?

But mostly, let's zoom out and appreciate and admire and think about how did the Knicks get here? What's changed for them in the playoffs? Why are they humming like this? And can they actually win the whole goddamn thing for the first time in 53 years? This city is about to go insane if they actually make the finals. The World Cup will be going on here at the same time. I can't even imagine the chaos. But we talk all about the game. Then we have a quick hitting preview of game four of Spurs Thunder, which unfortunately is now being marred by injuries on both teams, a development that the Knicks are at least sort of watching out of half an eye as they try to close out the Cavs on Monday Memorial Day. But the Knicks, 10 straight wins,

double digits galore. What a run. We talk all about it coming up on the Zach Lowe show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fandul. The conference finals are here. Think you know how it'll go down? Take your shot with Fandul and get closer to the action. Fan Duel is the best place to bet the teams, the players, and plays during the NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the Fandul's sportsbook app now and play your game.

21 or over in President's Select States, 18 or over in D.C. Kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler. call 1-88-7-89-77- or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to a special Saturday night edition of the Zach Lowe show. Michael Pina is here. The New York Knicks, the Knickrbockers of New York City, the greatest city in the world.

My home for almost 20 years, a team that went through a long period of incompetence, they became a punchline. There were impromptu gatherings of fans demanding that James Dolan sell the team. There was a sexual harassment lawsuit. They became a joke. It's been 27 years since they were in the NBA finals. It's been 53 years since they won an NBA title. And they just methodically beat down the Cleveland Cavaliers in game three of the Eastern Conference finals tonight to go up 30.

No one has ever come back from a 30-0. deficit in the NBA. It will happen at some point. I don't think this is a series where it's going to happen. The Knicks, my preseason pick to make the finals, are on an all-time historic run, 10 straight wins. I didn't even check the final score. It was another double-digit win for the Knicks, 13 points on the road, obliterating everyone. And at Pina, we talked all year, I talked all year about how the Knicks, they had periods where it just, they found it. They found the flow. They found the rhythm. They just, you could see it like, okay, the thing is functioning. The parts are meshing. Then they would lose it and it become a little stilted. And you would think,

why is everything so hard? And I compared it to the feeling when you have a word, a name, a trivia answer that you know for sure, but it's on the tip of your tongue and you can't quite get it out. They have found it again, and they have sustained it, and they are rolling through the Eastern Conference. And I said it after the Philly series, you know, you and I were at MSG for game two. I was at both games one and game two. And after game one, there were people kind of joking around in the corridors after the game. Not anyone affiliated with either team, to be clear, just there's a million people at these games. After having watched the game one of Spurs, Thunder, kind of just joking like, yeah, it's cool win for the Knicks, but this is like the junior varsity

bracket of the NBA. And I said, it after the Philly series. I think the Knicks can win the title. I think Nick Spurs is a toss-up, and I think the Knicks would have a puncher's chance against the Oklahoma City Thunder. Like I said, I've been telling people like 30%, whatever percent, some percent like that. This team is playing awesome. They have found whatever rhythm and rotation decisions they need to get their full force going. Landry Shamet has been a big part of that. He had those three backbreaking threes tonight all in a row. what a playoffs for the Knicks.

And Knicks fans deserve this. I've spent almost my entire life surrounded by Knicks fans. I was never won. I am not one. I will never be one. But this is a basketball city and the fans are insane. And they have lived through a lot of pain to get here. And here they are.

And I don't know where you want to start. Like what struck you from this game? I mean, the Knicks opened up a lead. They basically held the lead the entire game. They kept them at arm's leg. the entire game. The Cavs again missed the whole bundle of threes. I hope they are stitching up their shot quality champions 2025-20206 banner to go along with the Hawks shot quality championship banner from the Bud era and the Celtic shot quality championship banners.

Congratulations to the Cavs on that. 12 of 41 from three. They just haven't been good enough. The Knicks have been too good. Where do I want to start with this? I mean, you made a really good point just about how the Knicks can win the title. And, you know, after I wrote this column, after they beat the Sixers, and you just look at their point differential after 10 playoff games,

and it was the highest in the history of the NBA playoffs, better. The previous number one team was the 2017 Golden State Warriors, which we all kind of acknowledge as one of the greatest teams ever assembled. So this next team is clearly for real. You say it's a toss-up against the spurs. I would agree with that.

I would say that if Jalen Williams, is still compromised in the finals. I don't know who the favorite is. Honestly, I mean the New York Knicks. I'm glad you brought that up because right before this game, AJ Mitchell was really out of game four of Thunder Spurs. Jalen Williams is out for some period of time. We don't know.

The Spurs have two of their three guards playing clearly with injuries. And the longer those two teams beat the hell out of each other, if the Knicks make this a sweep, like that whatever 30% chance I just gave them against the Thunder, just continues to creep up. Because this team, this team is legit. And I think that's really, like you mentioned, the point differential. I think there's just a bunch of stuff happening all at once for the Knicks,

like a bunch of good variables that needed to flip their way, a bunch of good discoveries that the team needed to make on their own, have all coalesced at the same time. And the net effect is they became the team that they really believed that they could be when they built this team, step by step by step, methodical transaction by methodical transaction. But I mean, that's, I think, where we should start. Like, what has changed for them since 2-1 down, down against the Atlanta Aux?

How did that even happen? It seems like a different planet. I mean, there's two guys that I would like to cite. The first one is Carl Anthony Towns, who every time I'm watching the Knicks, I'm kind of waiting for him to revert back to the guy who we've always seen kind of meltdown, maybe, yeah, meltdown, I guess, is the fair description. of what he would do during certain possessions in his playoff career. And he's just played so, I mean, they put the ball in his hands,

it's control tower cat. And he's just been this combination of calm. I don't think he had a turnover in this game. And aggressive. I mean, not so much tonight because they weren't guarding him that way, but when they put Max Trues on him in game two, he's just quick.

He has the ball. He goes quick. He sees Jared Allen on him on the perimeter. He goes quick to the basket. So his decision making has been, awesome, very punctual, and he's not making mistakes. And so shout out to him. And he's holding his own in the defense event as well because they went at him

repeatedly in the pick and roll and they really couldn't get anything going tonight. Some of that was just missed open threes, but they couldn't get anything going. The Cleveland Cavaliers haven't been good enough, as you said. The other guy I want to cite is just Mikhail Bridges. Just he was a punching bag for a lot of this season for a variety of reasons. He did not play well at the start of the playoffs. I mean, the guy never missed. this is anymore. He's having the

playoff series of his life. He's shooting like 75% from the floor or something crazy like that. He had, what, 22 points tonight on 15 shots, 11 for 15 from the floor. He's moving so well with it. It's not like they're running plays for him at all. Sometimes they'll let him run, pick, and roll if the matchup dictates that, but he's just

playing in the flow of their offense beautifully. His cuts, his, he's just finding open space in transition. He's phenomenal. I mean, they had a point in this game where there was up 17, zero in fast break points. And a lot of that is just McKell Bridges, just running the floor,

beating Hardin, beating Mitchell up the court. So those two have been absolutely phenomenal. When you talk about just like it coalescing, those two playing as well as they have is as much as anything. Because I expect Jalen Brunson to be awesome. I expect them to be not phased by anything. And for those two to come along for the ride

has been the reason to me that this team looks unstoppable right now. Those are the two big changes. And for Bridges, it's so much, much more in the how than in the result. Like the threes are going to come and go. That's the nature of being a jump shooter. The attacking the rim in transition,

he had a mid-range pull-up on a pick and roll today with Mitchell Robinson. He got a floater out of that action in game two and a lob pass to Mitch in the same game. Like that play has been activated. Every part of his game has been activated. And I think, you know, they built this team. It's fitting in a way and it's going to be interesting to hear sort of

the basketball universe discusses the Knicks may be making the finals, assuming they close it out. Because there's been a lot of like discourse over the last two or three years about, well, can you really, can you really win the whole thing if your best player is a six foot whatever, six one, call it whatever you want, guard. And Becky Hammond was the most infamous one. They don't have a guy.

He's too short to be the guy. And they're playing against the team whose best player is a six two, six three, whatever Donovan Mitchell is. small guard. And the Knicks are outclassing the Cavs because they built a different kind of team around that small guard. And they even have a defensively challenged five who has not been defensively challenged in this series. This is the best stretch of defense. Carl Anthony Towns has played maybe ever in the NBA. The Cavs are going at him in the pick and roll over and over again. The Knicks interestingly are kind of switching up. Sometimes he got mostly he's guarding Mobley,

but they'll throw him back on Allen and flip the matchups if Mobley gets a little too, too frisky in the pick and roll, but he's been great. But around those two are these three gigantic wings. And they have never played in concert at this higher level on both ends of the floor at the same time ever in their time with the Knicks. Mikhail Bridges, O.G. and Obie. Did you even notice him that much today? 21 points on 6 of 10 shooting.

Defends every position, makes every right decision. And Josh Hart, I lot game two was one of the, the coolest NBA games I've ever been to. You know, the thing that happens with Josh Hart once a playoff series or once every other playoff series happened in game one where they had to take him off the floor because his lack of shooting was clogging up the offense. And part of that was he just wasn't spacing through the appropriate places. He kind of let the way they were guarding him sap the vigor from his play. When he's at his best, he's just flying all around doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

And he kind of stopped doing that and stood still and then became a liability. And then before game two, there was this whole, like, well, or the Knicks going to have to, like, really cut his minutes and play this super shooting lineup with Shamit in his place. And Jason Tim was on my podcast, I said, look, I'm just going to tell you what's going to happen. This happens every time with Josh Hart. There's calls

to, like, limit his minutes or even bench him. And the very next game, I think I said he has, like, 15 points, 12 rebounds, eight assists. He had way more points than that. And I just thought when the crowd began chanting Josh Hart, that was the whole chant. And it went on for like a minute. He didn't

acknowledge it during the game, but it was loud, it was damn near the whole crowd, just chanting the name of Josh Hart. That's the crowd saying, we love you. We love the kind of player you are. We love the kind of spirit that you play with. We love that the other guys on the team love to play with you because you will make the hustle plays and the screens and the hit-ahead passes and everything that makes their life easier. And those three guys have never played as well together at the same time as they are now. And that's the construction of the team. And that's what the calves, through every iteration that they have tried, still do not have. They are still at their core a team constructed around two guards. You can't say two small

guards anymore because Hardin's not small, but he is a defensive liability despite the fact that he has okay possessions here and there. But two, whatever you want to say, guards, and two bigs. And they just haven't been able to find the right synergy between the guards, between the Biggs, it comes and goes, but it hasn't sustained. And they haven't figured out the position in between them, despite trying DeAndre Hunter and Max Struz and Dean Wade. And the Dean Wade thing, he's just not good enough offensively. You can hide Brunson on him.

There was one possession in this game where he screened for Mitchell, I think, to try to hunt Brunson. Brunson's like, no, I'll just hedge out. Dean Wade, you go ahead and roll into the paint because Mowbly and Alan are both there. And if they try to pass it to you, nothing's going to happen and they stole it. And so I just think it's ironic. have this, well, can you get this far with the small guard? The Knicks are about to, and the

Cavs are about to fail again around further than they have in this era, credit to them. But it's so much about the surrounding personnel. And everyone, the Knicks are bringing off the bench. And it's really only like four, three and a half guys playing real minutes off the bench. They're all killing it. They're all playing really well. The whole thing is humming. But the construction of the team and just the wings versus the void of wings on the calves. I think it just stood out so much in the series. Yeah, they were saying it repeatedly on the broadcast tonight where you needed someone on the Cavaliers to step up and come along for the ride,

whether it's Jalen Tyson, Sam Merrill, Max Trues, whoever it may be. And the three-point shooting is just completely dried up for this team. And I picked, foolishly, I guess, the Cavaliers in seven in this series because I just trusted their... It's still alive, Michael. It's still alive. It's technically possible. I thought that they're just their offensive firepower would be a lot.

I thought that the three-point shooting that the Knicks had in the first two rounds would diminish a little bit. And the Knicks, you know, have been dominant. Their opponent in the first two rounds was just terrible from behind the three-point line. I thought things would just kind of balance out a little bit. And I like the Cavaliers talent, et cetera, like their size. And that just has not happened at all. And you look at the Knicks and you have Landry Shammit just, I mean, he's kind of, he's been their sixth man in this series. And the three-threes he hit in the fourth quarter that you mentioned, plus Hardin fouling him in the corner on another three-pointer.

A couple seconds later with Hardin up in the gap trying to try to protect Donovan Mitchell, who they were going after tonight. Brunson was hunting Mitchell instead of Hardin in the fourth quarter. it's just really tough when you have a backcourt that isn't insulated as well as you have done with the Knicks, as you said. And I don't know where the Cavs go from here with this. We can get to that, I guess, because it looks like their season's over. They did make it to the conference finals. That's really a step in the right direction for this organization. But to go out, if it is a sweep would be, I think, still humongously disappointing for them.

Oh, there's, I mean, look, you could have this debate, and it's so interesting how quickly things can change. You know, the calves, it wasn't pretty, but they found ways to win against two-way lead defenses in Toronto and Detroit. Detroit was the number one seed. They destroyed them on the road in game seven. You would have preferred it be a little cleaner than that. And I think the calves are probably tired, and they've played every other day now for quite a long time. well, I mean, that's what happens when you go seven games in every series. The Knicks haven't had to play every other day because they swept the Sixers and beat the Hawks in six.

If that RJ Barrett shot doesn't go in, there's some extra days off built in for the Cavs here and there. That's like the rest versus Rust thing is always funny to me because, yeah, the Knicks were a little rusty in game one. And by the way, the Cavs, I mean, the series was probably over when that game ended. You just can't kick away a game like that. on the road when you're when you're already fatigued and you're an underdog you just can't do it. The Knicks did it last year at home and the series, that series was probably over after that game, after the Halliburton game. But I will always choose rest.

And the thing about the rest versus rust debate is it doesn't end after game one. Like, yeah, sometimes the team with a lot of days off is a little rusty in game one. The Knicks overcame that and won. The benefit sustains like throughout the rest of the playoffs. Right. The load that you have saved yourself it goes beyond that. But anyway,

and then, you know, so you think they make the conference finals and they are, they've sort of slayed the demon. This team has proof of concept. It's gotten one of the final four teams. Probably, you know, no dramatic changes will happen.

And then you lose a game like game one where all the spotlight is on your coach and deservedly so. I thought Kenny Atkinson coached a horrendous fourth quarter and I don't even think it's debatable. And the rest of the team underperforms. And then if that snowballs into just a demoralizing sweep where the Knicks blow them out at home in game four,

I think a lot of things at least, like the drawing board might have got erased. I think you start at least writing some ideas back down on the drawing board. And if I'm the Bucks and I covet Evan Mobley, and I'm not sure they do and I have no idea if they do, it just gets a little more interesting to me. But I want to park the Cavs over here and talk a little bit more about the Knicks. You just look at like how they built this team. The level of discipline and creativity at the same time that this front office has combined since they took over right before the pandemic.

Stealing Brunson and Free Agency is the alpha and omega of the whole thing. I mean, it changed everything about the team. And then just piece by piece, you know, they turn quickly and Barrett. Remember they celebrated Barrett's extension? Like the first round pick we've drafted since Charlie Ward that we gave a. rookie extension to. Then they trade them. They correctly believe that they can get a better player. They correctly conclude that quickly is just going to always be redundant with Brunson there. They turn those into OG and Anobi, perhaps a less prolific score than RJ Barrett, but a much

better player and a much better fit with what they're trying to build. The Josh Hart trade will go down. It's their version of the Derek White trade. Both teams are around 500 when they made the trade, not really playing that well. In fact, hovering in such sort of mediocrity that you're like, really a first-round pick for like the guy's got this limitation, that limitation. Turns out Josh Hart's awesome and was worth way more than what they gave up. Cam Radish was in that trade too. They dumped Topin on the same trade deadline with the understanding that's going to help

them resign DeVincenzo and Josh Hart. And then they go a little nutso for McHale Bridges, but they had concluded we're just a way better team than we thought we were. It's now or never. We can't wait forever for Yannis. We can't wait forever for Joel Embed slash. We dodged a bullet with Joel Embed. And then the Towns won.

That's a gamble. That contract's a huge, huge contract that's going to be hard to move if it doesn't work. And it was an upside play. It was a, yep, it's a gamble. Yep, we could be in jail. Yet Julius Randall is really good. Yep, Dante is part of the Nova Knicks and is a beloved player on our team. This is a bet on the ceiling,

player that has now paid off. And it's just piece by piece by piece. It's a brilliant team-building job. And they've built a kind of unusual team. And it's why I've thought for a while now that they have a chance to win, even against the Thunder is like they're just a, you've got to be a little unusual. If you're going to come from a slight talent deficit, Brunson's an unusual player. Cat at the five is an unusual look. They're just a they're a hard team to play against. It's just a masterclass by the front office. Truly. And I thought that Mike Brown after game two in his press conference compared Josh Hart to Andre

Guadala. And I thought that that was really fascinating. Obviously, Mike Brown was an assistant coach with the Golden State Warriors. And if you kind of look at Josh Hart through that lens as this kind of lynchpin, do everything, huge winning play gamer, it just kind of, he helps things kind of, come together and coalesce in a really fun way. And going back to game two, that game, you know, after game one, whereas they weren't really defending him with Allen and Mowgli,

whoever was on him was helping off of him. And he missed his first, what, three threes in game two, right? And he drives a closeout from the corner scores. He drives another closeout on Jared Allen from the top, like, from the wing scores of the basket. and he's just so mentally tough and it's just like the resilience, when you watch that as his teammate,

I just wonder the resiliency of someone doing that fearlessly. And then eventually, obviously, he hits all those threes. But he's just, he's really growing on me. I, for whatever reason, I have not always been the greatest Josh Hart fan. I think he's just been phenomenal in so many different ways throughout this run.

And like, it's really funny when you look at the Carl Anthony Towns trade and just the just diametrically opposed performances that those two players, talking about Julius Randall and Kat have had in this postseason, it just could not have worked out any better for New York. So they've built kind of this rock solid team. And I mean, we haven't really talked about Jailant Brunson

because I feel like some of what he does is just kind of taken for granted. But he's held up defensively in the last, I don't know, five, six quarters or what? whatever. And he just looks unstoppable. Offensive. Like, you can't really do anything with him. He's such a great tough shot maker. You make any mistake at the point of attack. He beat you. He'll reject a screen, get downhill, go off the wrong foot. He's just, he's amazing. So I, I don't know what you do. And he never turns the ball over. So I, I just think the finals will be

a lot of fun. And I'm really looking forward to them because I was thinking this entire season. pretty much that whoever came out of the West was just going to dogwalk, whoever came out of the East, and I just don't feel that way anymore. And I think we could be in line for a classic series, hoping that whoever comes out of the West is healthy. I would love to see this matchup. I have been a Josh Hart super fan for quite a long time,

and I'm just, he was on my Marcus Soul All-Stars when I did that podcast with Chris Ryan this year. I love watching a play. Brunson is unbelievable, and none of this happens. without them swiping him from Dallas, getting hit with a tampering penalty for doing so that they would pay 10 times out of 10. And swiping them at a price point

that allowed them to do some other stuff. And look, the financial pain is maybe going to come down the line. Who cares? Like, it doesn't matter. They're about to make the finals for the first time in 27 years unless Cleveland really pops in a way that they just, I mean, maybe they have a crazy shooting game in them. They certainly do and like at least get it back to New York

and just, you know, you take it brick by brick. And if you get it to three, two, then the pressure shifts. But it's just hard to see there from here at this point. Hardin was, eh. I mean, he was seven of eight on twos, one of seven on three, is five turnovers. I thought this was probably his worst defensive game of the series, even worse than game one when Brunson went out of him all those times.

I mean, I just, I thought he was like not great defensively in that game in that Cleveland meltdown. Like a lot of people were like, no, he played good defense. And Brunson just made tough. I thought he played like okay to like defense and Brunson made some tough shots, some shots that are easier for him but look tough and then some easy shots. Tonight, you know, they come right out of halftime. He loses the Annobe on a three for a pin down. He loses track of McHalebridge is under the rim. It turns into a quick pass layup. Like those are the ones you can't,

you can't have. And look, they just bet against Garland. Garland's health has been iffy. This was a big all in year for them. And that's why the Mobley thing is interesting, because, like, you just traded up 10 years in age Garland for Hardin. You can justify that. Do you really want to go up X, whoever it is? Because that's the trade chip, right? I mean, it's X amount of years up in Mobley. That's like you get a lot older real fast.

And Mitchell, you know, look, he's said all the right things about the cabs and he wants to stay there and he loves it there. And I believe him. I believe he does. And he obviously is in the last year, his contract next year, and his extension eligible. I don't really see a pathway for them to get back into this finals. But do you want to carve out one just to do the thought exercise? I mean, no one's ever done it.

Somebody will do it. This does not seem like the set of teams that is amenable to such a turn of events. Yeah, I think the thought exercises, they hit a bunch of threes. They're generating threes. I mean, not as many as they did in game one, but they're generating decent looks from good shooters, like really, really good shooters, and they're just not falling. I think that, you know, they had some breakdowns defensively. The thing about the calves that's so frustrating are the turnovers.

Like just the stupidest turnovers, the stupidest passes you'll ever see in a big spot in a big game. In the first two games against the pistons in the last round, it was just like, what sport are they playing? And they make some of those passes tonight just trying to fit stuff into tight spots. Donovan Mitchell had a couple that were terrible, and the Knicks capitalized on them. Hardin has a couple kick-aheads that just... Josh Hart. You know who deflected all of them? Josh Harder.

Yeah. Just really, just not, like, it's not like he had an advantage up court. So the calves are frustrating. I think that they clean things up and take care of the basketball and hit threes. And, you know, I think their defense, when they are locked in and switching and helping behind the play has been okay at points in this series, like good enough to win games. Obviously, they probably should have won game one. But I don't know. I mean, the Knicks are just, they're like a bus saw right now.

And I don't see. I wouldn't like feel very bullish about thinking that the Cavs can even get too. of them at this point. Mitchell had 23 points tonight. You know, he's been deflecting every question about, is there an ankle? Is there a hamstring? Is there something that's bothering you? And look, if he's saying he's fine and he took 21 shots and did not, I thought he looked

okay. Like I didn't watch him and obviously think like he's like limping or dragging his leg around, he looked okay. Wade being a total zero offensively in the series has really hurt them. Schroeder has been pretty much a zero offensively in this series. They're just not getting enough from those guys. and then Strues and Merrill haven't made enough shots. It's been an all-time run for the Knicks, and I just like,

I'm happy for their fans if this continues the way it goes, because it's been a long time. They're crazy fans. The garden for those who can afford it is going to be outrageous. And I don't have a lot else to say, because we'll say more if and when they actually close this out. Let's take quick break, and then we'll just talk. very quickly about the Western Conference

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or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetmGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with I Gaming Ontario. All right. It's late Saturday night. Game 4, the West Finals is tomorrow. The Thunder won game three last night, Friday night, fairly decisively. Fox played, Harper played. J. Dub did not play. A.J. Mitchell got hurt.

He'll be out in game four. Really great performance by the Thunder. One of the finest performances this core has put together. Let's just do quickly. Give me one big picture, small picture thing that you'll have your eyes. on when game four tips tomorrow. I mean, Oklahoma City's three-point shooting and how they're getting those shots and who's playing around Shea Gilgis-Alexander has been the most interesting thing to me.

Mark Dagnall has done a really good job of just surrounding Shea with shooting, and it has worked. I think that Shailin Williams, you know, their offensive rating when he was on the court with Wembe in game three was like 140, I think. Jaylon Williams.

I guess we can kind of just say, like anyone who says J-L-L-L-Wiliams at this present moment is, unless it's in the context of an injury, we're talking about J-A-Y-L-I-N Williams. Yes. And I think that, you know, after game one, we all kind of were just scared at the future and the present and Victor Wenbinoa looking unbeatable.

And in a lot of ways, he is. When he's on the court, the Spurs win those minutes. And they did in game three as well. But I think that what is not lost, but what is a reality is that if you have five guys who can shoot from behind the three point line, you give yourself a chance. And the paint will always be a no-fly zone so long as he's on the court, but you will get good looks from pretty good shooters. And obviously, Alex Caruso has not missed in this series, I don't believe. And he is completely fearless going at Wembe off the dribble, too.

he is truly amazing. He's one of my favorite players in the entire NBA, having a hell of a series. But, you know, the idea of, you know, couching the Chet, Hartenstein double big lineup when Wembe's on the court and then playing a lot of Jay Will instead as the lone big is really interesting, and they've had a lot of success with it.

And so that's kind of what I'm looking at to see how the spurs kind of counter that and attack it a little bit better. the spurs are in this series plus 21 in 125 minutes with wemby on the floor and minus 38 in 29 minutes with wemby on the bench and when be on the bench and when you dig into like what's happening it's just everything is happening like the spurs don't get to the line without them. Oklahoma City's offensive rebounding rate skyrockets. The Spurs turnover rate reaches uncomfortable proportions. And that's the thing with these, you know,

with Fox laboring a little bit and Harper laboring a little bit, like just the margin for turnovers against, I think the Spurs have committed 23 more turnovers than Oklahoma City in three games. Like that is untenable. You can't, you can't beat the thunder that way, even with Victor Wembeyanama on the floor. But I think they need to load up those Wemba Nama minutes. I don't want to see them play a single second with him out and two of the three guards also resting on the bench. I just think it's not, it's too much heavy lifting for whoever the guard left over is, assuming all three of them can play. The thing that I am watching, and I think the most interesting stat of the series, is 72% of Wembeiyama shots came in the restricted area in game one.

In game two, 31%. In game three, 29%. And that's, that is why the thunder decided we are scrapping this, we're guarding Wembe with Wings thing, which they did mostly in the regular season and they do to switch pick and rolls, because it doesn't matter if you can switch pick and rolls if the guys on him are so small compared to him that you can just throw the ball up. And we're just going to guard him with Biggs. It's going to be Hardinstein. It's going to be Chet and Big Jaila Williams.

And we're going to drop back and play normal pick and roll defense. And sometimes the ops are going to be there, but they're going to be harder to see and harder to execute, especially when we're helping off the shooters. And that's really changed the series. And I thought in the first half of game three, the Spurs sort of got away from using him in the pick and roll anyway. And in the third quarter, they came out and said, yeah, we know you're guarding him this way, but we have to still try.

It's our best offense, just having him go to the rim. And they got a little bit of stuff out of that, but still not enough because the guys are guarding him are much bigger now. I think we're going to see even more of it and more creative ways to spring him loose, more misdirection. They ran a Fox Wemby empty side pick and roll from the right side of the floor that they got something off of I can't remember. They got a lob dunk at some point.

Vassell Wemby action is always good. Like I think they're just going to have to dig deeper into the playbook. But that to me is one of the defy the bench points and that stat of Wemby's shots drifting out to their perimeter more. Like even when he makes a shot like that or drives and then passes at the foul line and someone makes a three, those are all like wins for Oklahoma. Anything except him just catching the ball at the basket is a win. So I'm fascinated to see that dynamic in how the spurs try to sort of get back forcefully at the rim.

And you mentioned all the shooters. I'm wearing my Sixers shirt tonight in honor of longtime Sixer Jared McCain, who is proving to be an X factor in the most competitive series the NBA has to offer right now. I picked Thunder and Seven. We're just going to have to see how the injury. look like at some point if Mitchell's out and jubb is out i mean they can they just did win game three without jubb and without a j mitchell for for part of the game it just becomes a lot more heavy lifting for shay who's been outstanding the last two games um and and the rest of the guys have to make shot case and wallace has been awesome but you know you put those a j and jubb out versus

harper and fox expected to play but maybe limited is it equal is it a lot. I don't know, but I still feel pretty good about Thunder and seven, but these two teams are just unbelievable and just wish everybody were healthy because that game one was like basketball pornography. I mean, it was just like, I can't even

believe how good this is, and the Knicks are just waiting, just waiting and hoping that they just knock each other around a little bit more. Game one was so good that I just wish Adam Silver decreed that both teams got an extra day of rest or two days of rest or whatever it was.

that was phenomenal stuff also Dylan Harper not looking like the same guy I think he's a little a little a little banged up with the abductor um you know wemby obviously in the pain is unstoppable um when they have heartenstein on him they started to run those wide those wide pin downs and I think you mentioned just kind of empty corner um off ball stuff and I love that action I love how when they run it, but I agree with you that if he's shooting jumpers, even if he's shooting threes, it's tough. I would like to see him get a little bit downhill a little more with the inverted pick and rolls, but it's just the thunder. I mean, then we're talking about one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NBA and what they do so well is dancing and out of gaps and pack the paint. And when you have someone like Alex Carros, Caruso on the court with a,

with Biggs. Like, it's just, it's so tough. So it's like, Victor Wobionama 7, 6 or whatever, and it might not, it might not matter. And they're going to have to hit shots and they're going to have to hope

that the Oklahoma City Thunder cool off a little bit on the open ones. And we'll see. But I do think, I agree with you, that injuries will unfortunately play a factor in the outcome of the series. I had Spurs and 6,

and I'm not, you know, that could definitely still happen. But we'll see. Fox and Harper being not being compromised. And Steph Castle, he cleaned things up a little bit with the turnovers in game three. I want to see him be super aggressive still

and also not turn the ball over 10 times. That would be great. But we'll see. I mean, this series is still phenomenal basketball and game four is going to be great. Yeah, McCain, by the way, plus 46 through three games. That's tied with Caruso for number one.

on either team. Interestingly, the Homegren-Hartensstein combination is minus 29 in 28 minutes. And it's a tiny sample size. That just could all be like they're playing all their minutes with Wembe on the floor. It could be less about them and more about Wembe. But the one big look has been a really good look for the Thunder. So we'll see. I mean, look, this is already the best rivalry in the NBA.

I don't know. I can't wait for tomorrow's game. I hope everyone gets healthy soon enough. I hope we get another classic in here and I'll be on Bill's Pod tomorrow right after that game going live, I'm assuming on Netflix. But Michael Pina, thank you for staying up late. The New York Knicks, I got to admit, I just didn't think it was going to happen. I mean, not this year.

I picked them this year, but in my life as I constructed my life as an NBA person, I would always think, wouldn't it be cool if one of the New York teams made the finals? I mean, there is another New York team, by the way. I don't know if you remember. There's another one of the place in New York City. And, you know, like, I could have, like, I wouldn't have to travel for half the finals. Like, you know, it would be so cool to have everyone. Like, I could maybe have people over to my house or my apartment.

Like, it would be so fun. And then my brain would be like, stop, stop. Come on. Like, we're talking about the Knicks and the Nets. And now it looks like it's going to happen. And I am psyched for their fans who are just awesome fans. Michael Pina, there's still work to do. We'll be watching games.

game four on what is today, Saturday, so Monday. But thank you for staying up. Thanks to everyone for listening to watching the Zach Lowe Show. Thanks to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan, our crew for also staying up. And I'll be back on Tuesday as normal. I don't even know who's playing when, but basketball will have happened or be happening. We'll be talking about. Thanks, everybody.

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