The Zach Lowe Show - NBA Free Agency Instant Reactions With Wosny Lambre and John Hollinger

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Zach is joined by Big Wos to discuss the Milwaukee Bucks signing Myles Turner and waiving Dame Lillard’s contract (1:27), where the Lakers stand after LeBron James opted into his player option (11:04), and how the Nuggets managed to improve their roster by trading for Cam Johnson (35:09). Then John Hollinger joins (52:07) to talk about some emerging teams like the Hawks and Rockets making smart moves this offseason, as well as the reports that Mike Brown is garnering interest for the head coaching vacancy with the New York Knicks (1:15:42). Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Wosny Lambre and John Hollinger Producers: Jesse Aron, Chris Wohlers, Ronak Nair, and Isaiah Blakely Get started today at HubSpot.com/AI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, coming up on an absolutely loaded Zach Lowe show. Who, NBA Free Agency. You thought it might be a little boring? It seemed like a little boring. And then bam, right before we brought Big Waz on, the Milwaukee Bucks signed Miles Turner away from the Eastern Conference champion Pacers. After losing Brooke Lopez to the Clippers

and Dame Lillard gets waved and stretched, then the Nuggets keep loading up while we're live on this podcast. We react to that. We talk about LeBron. Oh, that was interesting with the Lakers. That's LeBron. What does he actually want? What do the Lakers want?

What should the Lakers want? Why is Dorian Finney Smith not on the Lakers anymore? The Rockets, we get into the magic, the spurs, the Knicks. Are they going to finally have a coach? They made a signing while we were live on this podcast. podcast coming up. Boy, oh boy, who else? We talk about pretty much every team in the entire league, including Cacaa!

The Hawks! Just a loaded, loaded episode of the show because free agency has been so damn loaded. And I hope you enjoy it. And maybe we'll see you later in the week if there's more news. But this one, Memphis. Memphis, we talk a lot about Memphis and Jaron Jackson Jr. Pretty much any team you want to talk about, Mavs, DeAngelo Russell, we got you covered on this edition of the Zach Lowe show. But we're headlining it with the Bucks and the last.

Lakers and the Nuggets. Enjoy. The Zach Lowe show was. We delayed the recording by like 20 minutes from when we were supposed to do it because my spidey senses about the Milwaukee Bucks were tingling. I wasn't sure what was up. I knew something was up. And boy, did we make the right call because in the last five minutes, the Milwaukee

bucks just signed Miles Turner away from the Indiana Pacers on a four-year, $107 million contract. My numbers may be off. We're just doing this on the fly. And Damian Lillard, in what has to be a devastating blow atop the devastating injury to a top 75 all-time player, waved and stretched the last two years and $113 million of his contract by the Bucks to accommodate Miles Turner. The Bucks, the reason this all matters is because the guy hovering over all of this is Janus, who's in Greece, watching, monitoring. I look how everyone's monitoring these days. Janice is monitoring.

The Lake, the LeBron is monitoring. The Lakers, like, it's hard work to, like, I'm monitor. I'm extra focused. Normally, I would just be watching, but I'm monitoring. I'm monitoring. LeBron's monitoring. We're going to talk about that because I think Miles Turner and the center market is a good intersection. The Milwaukee Bucks have now retained Kevin Porter Jr.

Where's my bucks notes? We're just flying by the seat of our pants. Gary Trent, Jr., Tori and Pratt. I have now signed Miles Turner to replace the outgoing and beloved Brooke Lopez who went to the Clippers on a fantastic deal for the Clippers. I don't even know if we need to elaborate on that. Was, we make of this, I get, look, I'm not shutting the door on any Yonah stuff either way until he shuts it one way or another.

But this certainly looks like a, okay, we're rolling, we're retooling around you, big fella. What do you think? I mean, this is a desperation move. There's just no other way to put it. Like stretching Dame Lillard's money over the course of the next four years instead of two is, you know, it's understandable. The guy suffered a devastating injury, especially for somebody his age. It's a difference when Tatum does it or Halliburton does it. Guys in their 20s, dames in his 30s to come back from this.

The idea that he's going to be anything like the guy we saw in Portland, it seems tough to imagine. imagine that that would be the case. And more importantly for next year, by everything, I know you know people who are familiar with how Janus feels about this stuff. Everything that I've ever heard about Janus says he's dedicated to being competitive. He wants to compete. He doesn't want to play on middling going nowhere teams. I think obviously Miles Turner is an upgrade for this team.

Does it make them an actual contend? I just have a hard time believing, you know, Kevin Porter and Janice and Miles Turner or, you know, some level of a big three or something like that. But they definitely upgraded and they definitely, as management was like, look, we're not going to settle for just being an all-so ramp. We want to be at least competitive next season. And, you know, I think this is a step in that direction. It's a lot to digest. It's a heartbreaker for Dame, although maybe he ends up in a spot where it's better for him in a year. I don't think it's a heartbreaker at all.

No, he gets his money. He gets paid and gets to pick his next shot, choose his next destination. You just don't, you know, once you get hit with the wave and stretch buyout label, it just changes your life a little bit, I think. It's probably, it's not a heartbreaker for Miles Turner, but, you know, We will talk about the Pacers and why the Pacers may have done this coming off a finals run, coming off a run where you're one game from the title. And you knew looming was the luxury tax. This dude's a Pacer for life.

He meshes great with Halliburton. And I think the bet they're making is like any stretchy five or any five of any kind is going to mesh super well with Halliburton. Next year is a gap year. We qualified Isaiah Jackson, which I think that was the, that was the like, oh, alarm Bell, okay, maybe Miles Turner won't be here next year, but still sort of not a great, just doesn't feel great to get that close to the title and then do this. But, you know, at first glance, the bucks are they contenders? They certainly skew big, like Kuzma Portis,

Janus Turner are four of their top whatever players, regardless of what you think of the Kyle Kuzma experience in Milwaukee, which is obviously dreadful. I would like to see them get, and I suspect they will get another person who can like dribble the ball and play and play guard. I don't know who that's going to be. But look, they're going to be good with Janus. Yonis plus shooting equals what's your floor? 45 wins if everyone's healthy. I just, I still, at first blush, there's still a perimeter player away from me being like,

okay, now that's a team that could beat like the Cavs and then the Knicks in back-to-back playoff series. Yeah, I think this roster. With a Dame Lillard on it, you'd be like, oh, okay, I love the front court mix, and Dame can basically shoulder the burden of carrying the perimeter, you know, organization, distribution, and shock creating. As it stands, again, even if you believe with the injured Halliburton for the season and injured Tatum for the season, you know, the magic, unproven, same with Detroit,

you're like, hey, I like my chances in the East to make some noise here. I just think the roster is still so paper thin. And if you're Yonis, if you really think you're competing at the top of this conference next year, that's good for you if you're Milwaukee's ownership. I just don't believe it. And I just don't see how the Yonest rumors don't persist into the trade deadline. If the standard is, hey, I want to be on a relevant team. Yeah, I mean, the Hawks also got a lot better.

I will save my cacao for later. And I took note of like, I mentioned this on Saturday when I did a little solo pie. I took note that the Hawks acquired the rights to another Milwaukee draft pick because anytime there's a Milwaukee draft pick that gets turned to another place, I'm like, okay, I mean, if Milwaukee ever wants to rebuild, they're going to need that stuff. Just saying, just putting it out there for my Hawks who are loading up was, all right, any Any Pacers-related thoughts on the Miles Turner? I mean, it's just heartbreaking.

It's heartbreaking. We go from a team that I thought was going to win game seven. I picked them to win game seven, even despite Halliburton's injury limitations. It just felt like they had this special sauce going on with them. Something magical was happening to, you know, Halliburton goes down and they end up inevitably losing that game to now they're, you know, losing parts of the team. Although if I'm an Indiana fan, I think Kevin Pritchard and these guys

have earned our respect and their ability to find guys and find relevant consequential rotational players in places that we just would not have expected them to. And I think we should give them

the benefit of the doubt that, not to say they're going to replace Miles Turner. I think he's got a unique and special skill set. And as you mentioned at the top, like, fit beautifully with what Halliburton wants to do. At the same time, I think they could bring in some talent and reorient the roster.

Maybe don't play exactly as they did, you know, when they had Turner in their building, but they played just as effectively. I think Tyrese Halliburton made Miles Turner look better than he is. I think DePacer's knew that. I think DePacer's anticipated a rickety and unsteady offensive season from Miles Turner without Tyrese Halliburton to bend the defense all toward him and give him picking pops and short rolls and all that and decided his defense has been in decline

for a little while. He's just decent now, but he's not the force that he was before. Let's just get ourselves some financial flexibility for the next Pacers team. Retain everybody else. Now I don't have to worry about do I have to dump Mathurin to get under the tax. I can see what is this guy going to be. I don't have to dump Topin to get under the tax. And maybe I can get by with more topping and see Akum is like a stretch four or five combination. At some point, they will need to find somebody with some parts of Miles Turner's skill set at the five to really contend again.

But I get what they're doing. It hurts. It hurts when you, like, this is one of those things where you got to put yourself in the position of a Pacers fan who's like, that's the cool thing about being a sports fan is like you just, you get to love these guys. You learn all their foibles, all their quirks, everything about them. You know, they're off-court hobbies. You know, oh, they like that shot over there.

Oh, he always misses this specific 12-footer this way. And then you got to go play. By the way, for the team that's been on the other end of the hottest rivalry in the NBA, Bucks Pacers, there's been just all sort of, there's been ball gate and daytime gate and all the gate. It's like, I got to watch him play for that. That sucks for the fans. It's tough. It's tough.

Miles Turner also is on my mind because the other big story we're going to talk about is the Lakers and LeBron. And I promise we will get by this as soon as possible. I was planning to lead off with the Denver Nuggets. I got Maxie Miner on my shirt today. So LeBron Opson releases, I don't even think, a passive aggressive statement. I just think like an almost aggressive statement. Oh, yeah. about team building and what he wants late in his career.

Okay, sure. Then the Lakers maybe botch, maybe kind of intentionally mess up the Dorian Finney Smith situation. He walks to the Rockets who are just, sure, rockets go off. Like, just get everybody, get four centers, get every offensive rebound, just get gigantic and win the offseason great fit in Houston,

which we'll talk about, replace him with Jake La Ravia on a shorter deal and a cheaper deal. And by the way, I'll bet you, I don't think the Lakers are wrong to think in three years, Jake LaRavia will be a better player than Dorian Finney Smith. I think that's a good bet. I still think Luca and LeBron are probably looking around like, wait, who? Luca's like, well, I played with the Finney Smith. I went to the finals with that dude in Dallas.

He's gone now. And they still, we're recording this at 1130 Eastern. they still do not have a viable center on the team. And the centers are running out, which is why I had my spidey senses up for like, I knew Indiana was looking at this gap year scenario with Miles Turner. And I was like, is this what the Lakers are sitting on?

Maybe that would be certainly interesting. He's not a rim runner, but Luca has gone, like when the Mazz made the finals, it was like Stretch 5 Maxi Klibea a lot of the conference finals, the first time was Stretch 5 Maxi Klibe. He can make any kind of center. work. And now he's gone.

Are we just looking at a D'Andre Aden end game with the Lakers here? And like, what does that mean for LeBron? Look, he's LeBron James. He's going to dominate the discussion. I'm sorry people. But like the Lakers are off to a little bit of a slow start here in Free Agency. Was, is that fair to say? Yeah, it is fair to say. And it's just the Rob Polinka. tenure as Lakers' GM, head decision-maker, allegedly. You know, I think about the rambuses and all the people around Jeannie Bus who are influential.

The AD move was basically he forced his way. Him and Rich Paul forced their way over there. This wasn't some grand plan by Rob Polinka. AD forced his way over there. LeBron chose them. Nico Harrison called you. Like, the one time I think Rob Polinka did a good job, for sure, was the 19 offseason where they got Danny Green and Dwight Howard

and all these guys at the end after striking out on Kawhi Leonard. And everybody was like, oh, you guys are idiots. Look at your horrible moves. they ended up rounding out that roster quite nicely led to a championship. Outside of that, I personally can't think of a single thing Roblinck has ever done as a GM that I was like, wow, that took some creativity. Wow, that took some foresight and some vision. Never, not once. However, I will say this, they've kind of been signaling to LeBron since the Westbrook deal that they're done doing things.

on his terms. And Luca's just a different animal like that fell into their lap. They had to do it. But it's like, LeBron, we're not dealing with your wants and your needs. You're 48 years old, sir. We get it. You're still productive, but we can't mortgage our future

based on your needs and wants. And so I understand why LeBron wants to play for a winner, he's, this is the twilight of his career. At the same time, If you're the Lakers, and I think the Mark Williams deal was then being like, why are we doing that? You know, we have a longer runway than we thought we did.

Let's fall back from that. And, you know, treat it like we have a 27-year-old superstar and who we're orienting ourselves around and not one who's in his 40s and has played 23 seasons. So on Saturday, I said, keep an eye on the Finney Smith situation. That's going to be the tell for me. for how the Lakers are thinking about things. Because I had heard negotiations were going badly. And I said, like, would he even opt out?

Do the Lakers even want to pay him? The answer to that turned out to be, no, they didn't want to pay him. And he opted out. And I don't think they ended on very good terms either. And then Dave McManumanneman reported last night that the Lakers are trying to make sure they have cap space in the summer of 2027. Depending on who signs extensions in the next 72, 96 hours, there could be some amazing free agents or there could be some just good free agents.

agents. And LeBron doesn't care about the 2027 offseason. LeBron doesn't care about any of that. Probably doesn't have a lot of strong takes on Jake LaRavia, who I think is good, can shoot, can drive, can defend a lot of positions, whatever, he's much younger than Finney Smith. And look, like, Luca is, what, 14 years younger than LeBron, 13 years younger than LeBron. LeBron opted in. I was watching ESPN yesterday and they were talking about how LeBron has control of the situation because he has a no trade clause. And he certainly has some control over the situation. Does he even want to be traded or does he want to be bought out?

Was like that's the question I have. But here's the thing. He doesn't have full control of the situation because he opted in. He is under contract to the Los Angeles Lakers who don't have to do anything else for him. He's under contract. And, but I will say that statement from Rich Paul came out. And I immediately, everyone's initial reaction was, okay, this is LeBron's playbook. He uses the threat of his impending free agency to leverage his team into making win now

move. Straight all the picks. Give me Rodney Hood and George Hill and whoever else, you know, back in the day. And then after about 30 minutes, I was like, I think this is something more. I think this is more than that because there's no player option on the other end of this. This is it. This is the end of the contract. And I don't know if it's because there was a disagreement over a potential longer term contract.

It obviously has not been signed by LeBron James if it's been offered by the Lakers. If it's a broader philosophical, like, well, this is not my team anymore and I don't like how that feels. But this began to feel to me and to people around the league less like the classic LeBron leverage play, longer, longer view window. you know, like I'll decide this in the summer and veering into like, does he want to be on a different team like now? What's your take? That's what it feels like. It feels like the opt-in because also LeBron has multiple goals. We have to realize that like he wants to play for a winner.

But most importantly, he wants to maximize his earning potential while in the NBA. This has been reported by a trillion people by now. But there's this idea that LeBron is like, I have never been paid my true market value because of weird salary cap stuff. Like when you remember the sign of trade with the heat and he took a slightly, he took kind of a haircut and all this other stuff.

But also because of max contracts, like when you think about the money that this guy has generated for the least, itself, you know, and what he's been compensated. He sees it as I, I'm done losing out on money. And at the end of my career, I'm going to cash in as much as I can. And the reason I'm saying that is, is if he really wanted to, he could have opted out of this deal, signed as a free agent with his club of choice.

Anywhere you want to go. By the way, and not just for the middle of, mid-level, tax mid-level. You want to just bank six million bucks? better than $2 million, bank it, man, whatever. Yes, but LeBron is like, nah, I'd rather get paid. That's the thing.

Like, and there's no shame in that. No. Right? Like, nobody would ever shame James Dolan for saying that. Nobody would ever shame an owner for being like, ah, well, I'd rather get paid.

I'd rather keep money in my pocket. You know, when they come up with these draconian new second apron nonsense. All that is, is them being like, I want to keep money in my pocket. Nobody begrudges the owners for that. so I'm not going to begrudge LeBron for it.

However, I'm not going to fall for the propaganda that winning comes first because I don't believe that. I think getting paid comes first. And then it's like, all right, now that we secured the $52 million, let's figure out how we could leverage the Lakers into doing something with us since they're not going to do anything

for the actual current roster. And, you know, there's just a lot of problems or issues that you run into, especially with the new, you know, cat rules. Like, how does this guy move himself to another destination? Well, look, I went through and I built all my favorite fake LeBron trades. Rapid Fire, here they are. The two hottest teams on the rumor mill were Cleveland and Dallas.

I don't know why Dallas. I guess AD is there, Kyrie's there, whatever. I don't see any real, I mean, Cleveland, you can build realistic deals. I don't sense that there's an appetite to do that by the Cavs. Dallas, it has to be like a million players going out. Then you have another group of teams who are like, should we just wait for whatever happens with Janus in six months or a year, if anything does happen with Janus?

And that's your Warriors, Spurs, Caca, Hawks, Knicks. To me, the Knicks are the most interesting one because they could sell it as like if it's Ananobe and Robinson or Ananoby and Bridges, some combination. of Ananoi Bridges and Robinson. They could sell it as like, what we get LeBron James, and we're kind of actually sneakily

cleaning up our books for like two or three years down the line, assuming it's a short-term LeBron deal. But like, it's just, it's a heavy lift. It's like Golden State. Are they going to trade Jimmy Butler for LeBron? I don't know. Is it a sign and trade with Cominga? Then that becomes enormously complicated.

I don't know that any of these are really realistic, which is why I'm wondering if LeBron actually wants to go to the Lakers to be like, can you just buy me out, buy me out and I can send wherever I want. And but if I'm the Lakers, I'm like, what's in that for me? So let me get this straight. I can buy you

out and get no quality player in return and still have your dead money on the books for most of the cap hit. What's in that for us? He might be stuck. I mean, I never underestimate Rich Paul and I never underestimate LeBron finding a way,

finding a way. But I don't I don't know. I can't see the way. Can you see a way? I honestly don't. And because LeBron doesn't have a history of pulling a Jimmy Butler, if he had the stones to make everybody's life miserable in the Los Angeles Lakers facility, every single meeting, every single press conference, make an ass of himself, at his own coffee shop, make jokes, do this. Does he have the intestinal or testicular fortitude because, you know, as a former WWE guy, does he have the testicular fortitude

to be that kind of guy in the Lakers building? I don't think so. So I don't know how or why the Lakers agree to that. And maybe it is, Rich Paul has a great relationship with Jeannie Bus. And it's like, yo, Jeannie, man, we bought you a championship we've done all of these great things.

You're not even the owner anymore, technically. This will be the other guy's problem. Do the right thing. Buy us out. Let us go be free agents. And, ooh, boy, could you imagine, Zach, the frenzy around a LeBron James free agency after a buyout? Oh, my God.

Well, maybe I don't know if there would even be a frenzy. I think it would, I mean, it would be a media frenzy. Yeah, it would just be like, I'm going there. Thank you. Got you. Maybe. Who knows? Chris Haynes, by the way, just tweeting. We're doing this in real time, was.

Yeah. Just tweeting. Chris Haynes, obviously, is very tied to Damian Lillard. Yep. So read into that what you will. Milwaukee Bucks star, Yana Satentacompo is not pleased with the team's decision to waive Damian Lillard, the sources tell me, tell Chris Haines. I also have gotten several texts while we've been talking from front office people who are like, the Bucks did what with Dame Lillard's money?

Like they did they left this much dead money on their books and like this happened a minute before we recorded. So I haven't looked at like here's what all the stretch hits on their books are. You know, if Janus is unhappy with how they treated Dame, then I don't know what to say to that other than like, this is how you got Miles Turner. And I don't know. You know, I was going to come on was because my spidey senses were tingling. My gut was going to be they have some kind of trade lined up to. turn dame into a guy who will actually be on the floor for them next year. You know, I, I, I talked about this idea of a dame for Bradley Biel trade that doesn't

really make a lot of sense for Phoenix. I had some other ones like that. They essentially did that, but not by trading dame, by waving and stretching dame, is their only vehicle to get a player that will help the next season. So I, I assume that will be conveyed to Janus somehow and he will get over it. But, you know, I'm just, I'm flagging that. obviously because again, the whole league's waiting on this. It's why, you know, I think he's the guy, like the Spurs kind of sat out the Durant thing.

Just we're threading this beautiful needle of, I think we have a pretty good team right now that if some of our young guys pop a little bit, we could be a little better even than people expect in the short term. And we got all of our powder dryer, most of it for the long term window with Wembeyanma. I think Janus is a harder conversation for them. they'd be much more inclined to be like, all right, should we actually go all in for this guy? So I don't know. So Janus is unhappy with the damn thing.

I don't know. What do you? I don't know what to make it at. I don't make much. I don't make a lot of it. I think Janis definitely wants people to know that he backs his teammate. I don't know that he's like in a deep depression that a guy who, again, cannot play next year, cannot help the team win. And I get it.

There is a certain level. of prestige and ego that comes into the idea like, whoa, you're like waving and stretching this guy who was a cornerstone of our team while he was here. Who came back from deep vein thrombosis to make a gutty playoff run and immediately suffered a catastrophic injury? Yeah, like, damn, there's a little bit of, you know, coldness, a chilliness to that, to that move. At the same time, I don't know that this is something you, Like, when you look at the roster before this and after this,

are you like, oh, this is like, like, I don't understand why you'd be so much worse or more angry or angrier at, like, I don't get that. I don't buy that. Sorry. Okay, back to the Lakers. For all the, like, whatever is going on. Like, I understand the defensive limitations of a. Luca plus Reeves plus LeBron at age 40, whatever, triumvirate. I understand they do not have a real center currently.

I assume they will rectify that somehow. Like this is, it's not like, it's not like this is some sort of also ran. Like, doesn't LeBron have any confidence in himself and Luca Donchich and Austin Reeves to be like, hey, we actually could, like, Rui's good. We got some real stuff here. Like, we're the third seed last year. Yeah, we got rolled in the first round, but I got her. Luca was like maybe not in the best shape and still acclimation.

like why am I why should I look at this is like well we have no shot if we get a center that's viable and to me if Aiton is the answer like I don't really like that answer I don't think like Aten is Aten is a eighton came into the league as this like unmolded piece of clay like what kind of offensive player is he going to be he can stretch it out a little bit he's got the size to be a rim runner he can feel facilitate a little bit from the elbow what direction is he going to veer in? And the answer has been like none of those directions. Like he's not a stretch five for Luca.

He's not a rim runner. He gets one free throw every couple of weeks. Like he puts no pressure on the rim. I don't know what he wants to do other than give himself nicknames and get paid and talk about he's a max contract player. To me, like Luca wants a rim runner. He ain't that. Okay, he's a stretch. No, he ain't that.

So if that's the answer, I get the frustration. But it's not like this is some team of chumps that he's on. like, you know, there are better teams, sure, but like, how about how about making it work? And like, look, this makes me uncomfortable to say, was, you know what? Look, how about making it work? And the team did draft your son and pay him like full freight for many years as a second round pick. I mean, that did happen. And, like, we know why that happened.

Look, again, LeBron has a certain level of cashet with the front office. I think one of the chips he cashed with them in terms of, yo, man, scratch my back here was to get his son. It wasn't like, yo, go out and get a viable NBA player. He didn't use all his equity with the team and management to get a piece that could help. He was like, yo, man, a heartwarming.

I love my kid. I want to be around him. I think this is a great story on my team. That's what you use. That's why it's like it's hard for me. It feels like a lot of times LeBron is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Is it about winning or is it about these other things? And again, I'm not going to begrudge LeBron for wanting to play with his son.

It's a beautiful story. I'm not going to be, I'm especially not going to begrudge him after four championships, four MVP's, all the stuff he's done in the NBA to be like, I want to get paid. I don't. But this idea that I believe that winning. is the number one priority. I think that's I think that's overdone and over said. Well, also getting paid, and again, he opted into 52.5 million.

He's probably worth more than that even now at age 40. That's how great LeBron is. And when you consider he's one of the few draws individually in the NBA, yes. He might be worth three times more than that to the Lakers. I don't know what the math is. He's LeBron James. He's either the best or the second best player of all time. Maybe I should say that more.

but he's LeBron James. But part, I said this, I say this on every player who does the thing where they're under contract and they just decide not to play. And I'm not saying LeBron will do that. Like you said, I don't think that's in his DNA at all. Part of being under contract, like it's like, it's like that's what the money's for from Madman. It's like, hey man, you're getting paid $52.5 million.

Like to play for the Lakers. It's a contract with the Lakers. So I don't know where we go from. Also, but Zach, also it needs to be said. you're getting $52 million to be the reason why we win. If we're not winning and you're our highest paid player, part of that is on you. You're not the type of player who drives as much winning as you used to.

Like, this is just common sense. Like, I think about, you know, because I've been a mega fan of LeBron James since 2002, probably. I think about the 2009 Cavaliers. that version of LeBron would look at this Laker Ross and be like, championship. Let's go. Let's go.

We're getting to the finals. It's also like, have some self-awareness about what you are able to do. You got outplayed by Julius Randall in the playoffs last year. That's not as much as I don't think Rob Polinka's in the top half of good GMs in the NBA. Like, that's just a fact. Julius Randall could.

Looked your ass in a in a playoff series last year, you know? Like, if you're better than that, we win more games. So this is like a certain level of passing the buck here that I don't really want to hear from LeBron. Like, no excuses. Play like a champion, bro. Like, you're one of the highest paid players in the league. You think you're still one of the best. Go out and do it on the court and be the reason why the Lakers are overachieving and actually winning more than even you.

think they can next season. Now, if Aiden ends up being the center of choice and Lopez is gone and Turner is gone and Capella is gone and on and on and on, I do think he's correct in assessing like, look, at this point, me, Luca and Reeves, we may not add up to more than the sum of our parts. And we just saw the Thunder win 68 games in the title and they're just going to get younger, they're going to get a little bit more experience and better and more loaded and, you know, Denver's back and Houston's loaded and all this. If I could get yeast, that life gets a lot easier.

But anyway, enough about the Lakers. Do you have any parting thoughts on the Lakers? Did anything we didn't cover? I would say this when LeBron, by the way, we did this the season before at the trade deadline. Remember LeBron's little dalliance with the Nix and the Warriors rumors out there, blah, blah, blah. And I remember at the time thinking, look, LeBron for Julius Randall and his mother, I like that. I love that for the Nix. I still like it for the Nix.

Trey LeBron for Katz, straight up. Like salaries, they play the same position functionally. Cat is not a center, although he can play center. Trade LeBron for Cat, straight up. Make him your starting to pile forward. I'd love to roll with that. O.G. LeBron, Mikhail Bridges, Brunson, a healthy Mitch? Come on.

Who says no to that? Now, that's fun because I was putting together these other trades with Katz still being there because partly I'm like, is Mitchell Robinson ever going to be dependable to be on the court to be like my center. And I mentioned financial relief being one of the sneaky reasons that the Knicks might do it. You get financial relief from that cat deal. That's for sure. Like cat, as I've mentioned before, sneakily up for a contract extension.

And already is, let me get my cap sheet up here. And that extension is going to be after or based on a player option for $61 million in 2028. That situation's won to monitor. I like that. Okay, let's talk about a team that's near and due to our hearts was. The Denver Nuggets made the most interesting trade of day one of free agency, trading Michael Porter Jr., who has two years left on his contract about 70 mil total or 70-something million, almost 80 million total, actually. For Cam Johnson, who makes $17 million less, which is very important for tax purposes.

and they incentivize the deal by including their unprotected 2032 first round pick. It's currently 2025. Nicole Yokic will be like 38 years old, it's 37 years old by the time that pick conveys. That's a nice little asset for the Nets who are building something. I don't know what the hell is going on there, but they just got a lot of players. Cam Johnson replaces Michael Porter Jr., presumably in the starting five. and Bruce Brown comes back on the veterans minimum. Bruce B is back, yeah.

Russ, we don't know, DJ, we don't know, backup center. I don't know, maybe Day Round Homestakes that spot. But Cam Johnson for MPJ and the unprotected first-run pick, that's some back-end risk. Was, what do we think? I love it. I'm just a plus plus for me.

I get it in the sense that a pick eight years into the future. That's a real genuine thing that they get. gave up. That's a real asset, hashtag asset that they gave up there. But in terms of trying to maximize the Yokish era, to me, this is a no-brainer for

a dude who makes half as much as Michael Porter Jr. And I think it's better suited to how they actually want to play. I just think this guy's mind works faster on the court. Like, he's just a quicker thinker, quicker decision maker, just

quicker. Um, then Porter Jr. is obviously a less talented guy. Porter Jr.'s damn than seven foot has one of the best jump shots in the NBA. Top five jump shot in the NBA, you know, at the same time, like, don't ask him, close your eyes when this guy dribbles the ball or tries to do anything that isn't catch and shoot or maybe one little slight dribble, create a little bit of space and shoot over a smaller guy. Maybe an offensive rebound or two when he feels like it, you know?

Yes, when he feels like it, that's the thing. you know, Cam Johnson somehow a better playmaker than Porter Jr. Like, I would say if he's not on the level of defensive player, he's probably a better player. I know we're done calling Cam Johnson a three and D guy. Like, we said this on group chat. Like, if you actually watch this guy, even in the, you know, the Sun's days, the three, the D was a bit of a stretch. But I just think he's just such a better fit for how they want to play. the damn and Yokic mind meld is going to be beautiful to behold.

And I think it's going to be pretty instantaneous. And I like the fact that they now get to use with the full mid-level to try to round out the roster. And turning MPJ into two rotation players, I think it's just so key because that's what was missing in that OKC series where they were just trying to find minutes and stop gap minutes. and now I think they could do that quite beautifully. Yeah, bottom line, number one, they just turned one player into two, which we just spent the whole playoffs being like, man, if they just had one more guy.

Well, they got one more guy. Bruce Brown was like, all right, I got paid. I got paid like $48 million last two years. Give me back to Yolkitch. Get me back to Yolkish, man. I need those cuts. I need those offensive rebounds. I need it all.

I need to play a little backup point guard. And they still have, look, I will like this deal better. I think I was going back and forth with some cap nerds about bonuses and how bonuses count. I think they still have a piece, if not all of the baby mid-level exception, the tax mid-level exception. If that's true, spend that MFer, man. It's the, it's Yokic. Spend it.

I like what you're doing so far. You're saying to hell with the future. Help us now. But spend that. And I will love the team because that gives you more of a buffer against like, hey, look, Watson, pick it. Tyson, Strother, Holmes. Like those dudes may make leaps of varying degrees next year, but like we can't count on three of them being like 18 minutes a game

into playoffs ready. Bruce Brown, we know player X on the non-taxmate level ring chaser, whoever that ends up being. We should know. But look, I'm with you on, I've been a Michael Porter Jr. defender. He's, I've been the opposite. Well, I just think you can't like the dude is an A plus.

plus plus shooter who can shoot over pretty much anybody who's guarding him at any time and fits with Yokic. I just think Cam Johnson is a better fit for the Nuggets, regardless of price. Just if I had to boil it down to one stat was, this would be it. I looked this up on the second spectrum tracking data last night. Michael Porter Jr. four drives per 100 possessions for the Nuggets. And he's been about that level his entire career. It's hard to be a heavy minute. starter who touches the ball a fair amount and average four drives per 100 possessions. Now, Cam Johnson isn't exactly SGA, but he's at 11 drives for 100 possessions. And the numbers are really good in terms of his efficiency.

He's just, they just need someone who can keep it moving a little bit and not be like a crushing defensive liability. And Michael Porter Jr.'s feet and inability to get low in a stance, maybe related to his back injuries when he wasn't a hundred million percent engaged he was the kind of defensive liability that's like they're hunting him the smart teams are going to hunt him all the time and by the way if they're not hunting him they're hunting jemal murray and that's just maybe too much defensive weakness around our ecosystem i think cam johnson's going to be an awesome fit in denver uh oh breaking denver news apparently sacramento is trading yonis valent junis to denver for dario sarich there's my back

up center problem solves so let's get let's get some let's go double big with yokech and valentunus at the same time it just beat the hell out of everybody i told everyone the kings don't underestimate the kings sarich was a mistake he's dead money they turned him into a guy who we know can be on the floor for 12 minutes a game in the playoffs and not sink your ship like every non yoketch line up has been a sinking ship for 10 minutes boy oh boy the nuggets this was my big I did my biggest free agency questions of the offseason that were not Janice and KD related with Rob Mahoney. My number one was, can the Denver Nuggets finagle away to improve their team? Because everyone's like, oh, they're stuck.

They got no assets. They can't trade this guy. They can't trade that guy. The answer is a resounding yes. That's now three new guys who we know can play in the playoffs in the door and one out. Was, this is an A plus for the Nuggets. This is an A plus plus. in so many senses.

One, I thought, not that I thought, the thinking around Denver before going into the playoffs was like, yo, they're probably going to try to get somebody like actually a star next to Yokic this off season. Then

they take the champs to seven games, gave them as big a fight as anybody, and it's like, wait a minute, we're right there. We need to retool this thing around Yokit. And I'm like, all right, they're going to try to retool.

It seems like the options are going to be limited. They go into the offseason. You know, there's whispers out there that they might try to get Bob Myers, which I thought was a joke. Like, you would actually have to pay that guy. You know, they bring in two guys who have already been with the organization, have great reputations. But at the freaking press conference, the owner's talking about,

oh, man, I might have to trade Yokic one day. Did not make me feel good, Zach. Is there no media training anywhere, anywhere, anymore in the NBA? Like, just like, how are these people saying these things into microphones? Insane. And if you paid attention to the press conference, they kind of roped the, Zach. They were like, ah, doesn't feel like there's that much we could do to reshape the roster.

We're probably going to come in with a little, with a few tinkers. See, I don't pay attention to the press conferences unless someone says something that makes me like, are you insane? That's the only thing I see. They tried to say, oh, there was just no way for the. to do anything this offseason. Now they've definitely reshaped and retooled in a meaningful way.

Like, this is meaningful. You know, when DJ was getting playoff minutes, there was a game against the Clippers in the first round where he was, like, actually, like, kind of good. And I was texting everybody. I don't know. I was like, what am I watching? What is happening?

You know, D'Andre Jordan looks like an actual serviceable player, but you were holding your breath every time he came into the game. That's not going to be the case. with Valancho. It's like this guy, if you're asking him to give you 10, 11, tough, hard, rugged minutes in big spots. Like, he can deliver that for them. So this is like, this is a great offseason for the Nuggets, man. I'm looking up the King's salary table here because I want to see refresh my memory on how much JV makes. He's at 10, 395 and Dario is at 5 something. So that essentially is their non-tax mid-level. I think they will be

right up against the tax after that. They've paid the tax, I believe, the last three years. So they would actually be somewhat wise to be like, that's actually, we're a good enough team. We found a way to get that player. They're probably about done. Awesome. If I'm Yokic, I'm like, this is great.

Like, this is as a good a possible scenario as you could have outlined for me. Throw the extension my way. If the fax machines work in Sombor, if I get it, if I check my email at the bar. He's not doing a docuice. We don't got yokees doing the dog. If the Wi-Fi at the bar is working today, I'm a veteran of the Balkan bar scene. I know how it is. You know, I'll sign that extension.

By the way, one of the reasons I like this trade is an exercise I did this morning was if I had the, if I took that package of Michael Porter Jr. With two years left on his deal and that unprotected pick around the league, could I get a better player than Cam Johnson? And I'm not sure I could. So here are the names that I came up with. Zach Levine makes a lot more money than Cam Johnson. It's complicating my tax ability and my ability to get guys like JV. The Celtics guys, not going to get it done. And Jalen is enormously expensive.

That's not nearly good enough to get into conversation. Devin Booker not available. Paul George, do I want that contract? Interestingly, this is the craziest one. Zion makes exactly the same amount of money more or less is Michael Porter Jr. But you can't trade an up particular pick for that too. The more I looked at it, the more I was like,

I think Cam Johnson is kind of the perfect guy for what they needed and what he costs. And I wish I had seen it coming because now it seems obvious. The only thing I want to, the only player I want to throw in there because my DMVR guys, who, by the way, I want to issue an apology to the art department of the DMVR company out there. My guys, Adam Marez and D.LON, who I think is. the art director up there. I impugn the integrity of the art department said they lifted Shams'

Instagram graphic for breaking news. Turns out I was wrong. I was scrolling so fast, it looked so similar. So I just want to say sorry to you guys for impugning your integrity, your artistic integrity. That being said, like a month ago, they threw out the idea of trying to get

Trey Murphy from New Orleans around a Michael Porter. the junior. I would have loved that. But I think this is a great, like, slight downgrave. I think Trey Murphy, we can say, is better than Camp Johnson. But shoot, man, this is, this is good. This is, this is great.

This is a way more well-rounded, well-balanced lineup now. And now when the, when or if the, which, by the way, Pee and Watson, I think is like, he's made himself into a bona fide rotation NBA player he just needs to shoot it a little better to get from 15 minutes a game like hopefully we get good Peyton Watson in the playoffs to like okay 20 minutes a game and we know this guy right like maybe you're not a jaden McDaniels but you know like you're inching in that direction right um they're just such a well more well balanced roster from top the bottom and now if strouder or these other guys end up popping next regular season. And I think, you know, to management's credit, I think Adelman is actually going to let those guys try to become reliable players next year. You just have to be very, very happy if you're a Denver Nuggets fan this morning. You got to be thrilled. Trey Murphy's a great name. It's a great call. I'll bet you New Orleans would have wanted more just because what they've invested in him. Would Joe D have one of him?

No comment. Wise, I got one more question for you. Let's go. Are the Mets cooked? What's happening? Brough. How do you go from the best record in baseball to three and 13 over 16 games getting slaughtered by the freaking pirates?

What's going on? Educate me. You know, it's the same thing. I think the rotation was the biggest issue coming into the season. And that part of it has just, they cannot get out at the, this point. And, you know, I'm reading the Mets writers. There's, like, rumblings that maybe there's a cavalry on the way. We'll see. I know ownership is always willing to spend and do what it takes,

but my goodness, I went from riding a high. Every time I would get a notification from the athletic, right, because I'm subscribed to the Mets. So after every Mets game, I get a push notification. I went from, ah, another Mets win to, oh, my God. As soon as I look up at my phone, I know that they lost. It's really disheartening. Three and thirteen, Jesus Christ, it's even worse than I thought it was. It's crazy, though, what you just said. They lost like nine straight at one point. I'm getting back into it and it's crazy what you just said. Like, every time I look at the schedule, I'm like, oh, they're going to lose tonight. Like, I just, I'm immediately back to like, they suck now. I don't understand what happened. They just suck. They can't be to anyone. It was all smoking mirrors.

No, I don't think it was all smoking mirrors. I just think, you know, the season is long. there's going to be ebz and foes. If last season taught us anything, things turn around really quickly in the MLB. I think they can be fine. I think obviously they need to get some arms in the building off of the entry list. But yeah, this has been a very disheartening stretch.

All right, Waz, what's next for you when you go back on group chat? I know you guys posted something overnight, I think. Yes, we did. We did something quick off free agency last night. We're going to do something on Thursday. I think to just round it all out. Because I guess apparently the news just doesn't stop coming. And yeah, man, just looking forward to that.

Going to NBA Summer League again, looking forward to running into guys like you and all of our colleagues around the league, man. You know, our team friends, our agent friends, all of that stuff. So yeah, man, looking forward to the rest of the summer. I will be at Summer League for five days. My one request is, like, was I'm washed up and old, man. Give me a fun night out in Vegas. Show me a spot I don't know about.

This is easy. Take me somewhere I'd never been before. Let me live it up, okay? This is so easy. This is about the easiest thing anybody's ever asked me to do. Let's have a good fun night in Vegas. We're going to have a great dinner, great cocktail place. You know, listen to some loud music somewhere.

It might end it at the, you know, the craps table or blackjack, whatever is your preference. this is this is so easy to achieve in the city of Las Vegas because I got spots in Vegas. I think your spots are different than my spots. And so I want to show me your spots. So I was, man. Thanks, buddy. This episode is brought to you by Panda Express. Look, it can be hard showing how much you love someone.

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extra possessions are everything. Sam goes for growing a business and HubSpot's customer platform gives you more chances to win. Breeze. They're built in AI. Automatically takes care of marketing, sales, and service tasks so you can game plan for growth. It's easy, efficient, and most importantly, it's effective. Customers are cutting sales cycles in half and getting hours back each week. That's like turning those contested jumpers into clean looks at the rim. Visit HubSpot.com slash AI to learn more. All right, to help us digest the rest of the offseason, the greatest to ever do it, live from the West Coast, John Hollinger. How are you?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show, Zach. Of the athletic, I should say. John Hollinger, and Hollinger and Duncan and many other illustrious things. The Miles Turner to Milwaukee slash Dane being waved and stretched happened right when Waz and I started recording. What is your hour later snap-ish take on this stunning turn of events? It was a drunken way to wake up on the West Coast. Like the coffee's still hitting and like, what?

Wait, what are we doing here? the butterfly flapping its wings that turned into this hurricane, Andrew Nemhard's extension last year, two years and 56 million in new money, which seemed a little excessive even for his playoff success, but most importantly, turned a $2 million salary for this year into an $18 million salary, which if you're the Indiana Pacers,

you can't act like you're the clippers with Steve Balmer if you're not actually that team and that owner. you knew that it would it would create impasse this year where they would be a potential tax team and have to make some very hard decisions. And the decision they made was that it cost them Miles Turner, basically. I don't think they make that decision if Tyrese Halliburton is healthy. I think they eat the tax if Tyrese Halliburton is healthy. I think that's probably true, but or are they cheap out in some other way like trade

ovie topping or something. but the fact is they don't have Turner for next year either now. Like they got to come up with the center somewhere. And how do they do that with the means they have at their disposal going forward? I don't know. Maybe if they're bad enough this year, they can trade that 26 pick. They got back from the Pelicans. Thank you, Pelicans.

They also greased this with their move during the finals right before Halliburton got hurt. Wonderful week for the Pelicans. They've done much more for the Pacers and Hawks than they have done for themselves, unfortunately. But as far as Milwaukee goes, I will say this is extremely bold. Obviously, this is a way to keep Janus on side, right? That is the driving motivation here, clearly. And you move off a Lillard, you have a $22 million dead cap hit with him. Well, I mean, their experience.

with this with Coosma. So it's just another one. Whoa. Kuzma's like, what? What? Why? So they get turn it. They're losing Brooke Lopez too, though. So they get Turner. The backcourt is still very much a question mark. I guess they think KPJ can start. You got Gary Harris on a minimum. You got some other minimum guys. You got Gary Trent back on a, on what is a value deal, but that the one, two, three positions would deeply concern me if I were Milwaukee. That's it? Just 60% of every lineup would concern you a little bit? Yes, exactly. You wonder if at some point they would look at moving Bobby Portis to supplement that back court since they have him back too. I mean, the front court is so strong, right? With Janus Turner and Portis, but they're just so top heavy right now. Now, everyone in the East is looking at the conference, though, and thinking,

well, if we just, if we're just like 500 level good, that might get us to the conference finals this year. So, which is a little bit of an exaggeration, maybe, but I think that's the place where a lot of this logic is starting from, that people think they don't have to be that good to potentially make a run in next year's beating down Eastern Conference. Speaking of which, our next team in line, cue it up cue it up the sound well that's just me kaka

Atlanta Hawks out goes Terrence man George Nane Clint Capella maybe some other guys definitely Keroslavert in Nikira

Alexander Walker Christophs Porzingas Luke Kinnard Aesanuel John Hollinger Are you booking finals hotel reservations in Atlanta yet

for next June I love Because I have a house there No that's right So just to review, starting five, projected, Trey Young, Dyson, Daniels, thanks, Pelicans, Zachary Risha Shea, Jalen Johnson, Anyeka, Akangu. I'm putting him into starting five. Bench, I got gnaw, Knar, Kinnard, Moge, maybe, Porzingis, at Backup Center.

Then I got Kobe Buffkin, Vee, Creti. I think what my big need going into July 1, June 30th, was, if you're going to lose Lavert, I either need Lavert or some equivalent kind of wings. I think Alexander Walker is even better fit for their team than Lavert would have been. And I love Knard as like another wild card kind of ingredient. And I think between those guys and Jalen Johnson being on the floor when Tray Young is on the bench, I think you can manufacture point guard by committee in case Kobe Buffkin is not ready for that kind of role.

I think this team is really good. I don't know what the over under on their wind total is going to be. I'm probably going to take the over. I think they still have a little bit of salary room. You can educate me on that like a little bit of something to spend. But I think this team has done a fantastic job for the last two years digging out of the Dejante Murray trade and now putting together a team that if Tray Young continues to evolve a little bit bit bit by bit each year, I don't want to belabor that.

I've talked about a lot. I think this is a legit, really good team that is. Like, I don't know how, like, I think they're really good. I don't know. I don't know what else to say. I think they're going to be good. I think they can play Porzingis and Akonwu together at times the same way they did with Al Horford in Boston.

I think that would really work. So between those three front court guys, Johnson, Porzingis, and Akamu, they can have them in any alignment and it basically works regardless of who is the starter. So I think that part is really good. They're still sitting on that. lottery picked they got from the Pelicans on draft night unbelievably. They could put that in a trade and upgrade a roster spot too. I think the concern part right now is that small forward position. I mean, Risa Shea was the number one pick last year, so of course he had to start and play and

whatnot. Came on a little turn of the end of the year, but was he starter level good if he hadn't been the number one pick? No, he was not. So can they get a second year jump from him? and if not, what are they doing about that position? I'd say that looms as the one kind of weakness a little bit. I mean, they probably close games as I look at it with Alexander Walker and Daniels at the two and three. I was going to say that that's the way to go, I think, as currently constructed. And they can paper that over a little. The thing I like about pairing Kennard with Alexander Walker off the bench is when Alexander Walker just has to be the point guard and create stuff,

it's too much and bad things happen. Kinnard, low-key, has a lot of on-ball utility. I mean, he can pass, he can play out of pick and roll. It's a really good secondary handler there. I think they'll have Jalen Johnson in the non-Trey minutes like they did last year. So I think that's a way to get through that. Because as you said, the biggest dilemma with the Hawks is, has always been, how do we score when Trey is off the floor,

and how do we stop anybody when Trey is on the floor? And I think they've gotten some really good answers to both of those questions over the last two years. So now the question is more, you look at this roster, it's eight deep and then it goes off a cliff. So can they get some more guys with minimums, exception money? They actually still have some money to play with here. They still have the $13 million bogey exception. They got some other tools. They probably won't spend into the tax, but they still have room below the tax.

So they're still in a really interesting situation. And like I said, if they really want to push chips in, they're still sitting on that pick that's pretty valuable where they could do something at midseason potentially. Well, as you noted in your recent column and I noted on Saturday on my mini podcast, I just flag it when any team acquires a bucks pick. And I know the bucks have done big things today, probably to appeasianus. We'll see what happens in a few months at the trade deadline. Okay. Team number two, I want to talk about the Rockets who swiped Dorian Finney Smith from the Lakers.

Got another center in Clint Capella. They have three centers now that are rotation worthy. Resigned Aaron Holiday and Jay Sean Tate and Jeff Green. And I don't think those should be slept on, particularly Holiday as a guy who could play an important role on this team. But if you're going to project out the starting five, Van Fleet, Thompson, Jabari Smith Jr. extension, I'd love no notes. I think he's a winning player. I think that's a fair price for the Rockets. And I think it's a fair deal for him locking in all that money. Durant, Shengoon, on the bench. I got Reed Shepard, Dorian Finney Smith, who can obviously start in the pinch if I want to go that way. Tarry Eason. And then I just figure out the backup four anyway. I want, play one of the starters, whatever. And Adams and Capella, they clearly,

I think are going as far in as any team can be on playing two centers together. They believe in the Shengoon Adams magic that happened last year. I assume Capella will fit into that and allow them to load manage Adams for the year. And they just have like Finney Smith is not as well equipped to defend like point guards as he is to defend bigger wings. They have guys who can defend point guards for him like Amen Thompson and Fred Van Vleet and maybe Tari Yisen. You can quibble.

with like are they almost, I don't, I don't know if there's such a thing as being too big, actually, when they're this fast and this athletic. I just, I think this team between the Rockets and what the Nuggets did and I talked with Waz about that, I think they come in two and three in the West with a bullet right now. I don't, I have no criticism of the Rockets offseason. I think it's been a home run all the way around. I think it's been really good. I do wonder how this is actually going to play out on the court. I mean, there are no real wings on this team. And there is one point guard that they trust.

Well, what is Eason? What is Finney Smith and what is Amman Thompson? Are they not wings? Are they just everythings? If you were building a team from scratch, you would have all of them at the four. Okay. Right?

But do I mind that in three? Especially with the lack of shooting you're getting from those guys. Like even Fini Smith, like, yeah, he's okay if he's open. But I mean, we saw with the L. he's not like some crazy knockdown guy who teams are stressing over. No, I agree with that. I, I, Eason is 34.5% for his career. I'm going to believe in his jumper.

I just think that they're so versatile defensively that particularly Eason and Thompson that I almost can't pitch and hold them into a position. And I love how they protect Durant in that regard. I like going in on the double center thing. That's super fun. I agree with you. They're a little, they're big. They're huge. Are they too huge?

I don't know if there's such a thing. I just think they're going to be an absolute monster to deal with. Can you imagine trying to box this team out on the glass? I mean, they just got bigger. It's going to be crazy. They're going to lead the league in loose ball falls drawn by a mile. Yeah, clearly. I do wonder how, like, Jabari fits in their long.

Jabari, to me, that extension is almost like the Jalen Green extension, where we're just sort of now we have a placeholder for whatever the next trade we do, going to be. I mean, Jafar is fine in the rotation. I'm not as enthusiastic because I just think he can't dribble. And so it just limits his game so much. See, I, I see, I hear that about him. And it hasn't looked great. Particularly for a guy who was like, is he going to be the number one pickover Bancaro who can very clearly dribble and do a lot of stuff. Someone might have had a number one on his board. Yeah, we won't talk about that. But no, I'm not, I'm just like, I get people want to see more. I just think I'm just not going to pigeonhole him into he can't dribble, he can't make stuff happen off the bounce because I've seen little flashes here and there.

Tentative, sure. Even in the post against smaller guys, you see it sometimes. He just hasn't been put in a position to do that. I think, I don't know if he will be now, but I think as he grows in his, I think playing with KD and being around KD will be awesome for him. I'm just not closing the book on Jabari Smith Jr. being like a supplemental kind of creator and not just a nothing as a dribbler. Maybe, I don't know. It's year four, so we got to see, we got to see a little more, a little more juice there

than we have, certainly. The other question here, Reed Shepard, you mean, he's got to fill a roll now, right? Well, that's why you pick him at number three to fill a roll. Yeah, you would think, right? Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't get off the pine last year. It was awesome in Summer League, though.

Well, I mean, I just, I mean, Finney Smith, good, fit. I talked about La Ravia to the Lakers already. I just think this team's going to be really good. I like the OKC. It's not going to be a walk in the park for them. It wasn't a walk in the park for them this year in the Western Conference, at least for a round. Minnesota retained pretty much everyone other than NAA and they have the means to replace him or they have young guys that are coming to replace him. By the way, I didn't, I didn't mention this when I talked about Minnesota with Waz. Jada McDaniel's contract just looks better and better like every single minute of every single day. I just think he's a really good player. Okay, can we talk about another

team that's near and dear to your heart? Yeah, let's do it. The Memphis Grizzlies. Woo-hoo. All right. All right. Yes. Jaron Jackson Jr. renegotiate and extended at the max. Yes. Santiago-Al-Dama retained for a little bit more than the mid-level exception. What else? What am I forgetting about Memphis? What else they did something else? Ty Jerome. The University of Virginia, Zach. Oh, God. Tide Jerome and Jay Huff reunited in Memphis. This is after the Desmond Bain trade where they got kind of a makeup for the year.

We traded a pick for a couple picks for Marcus Smart. Then we had the don't Marcus Smart. Morant, Caldwell Pope, Wells, Triple J, Zach Edie, if healthy, starting five off the bench. It's still a deep team, man. Scotty Pippin Jr., tied Jerome, Cedric Coward, who. who they traded up for, Santi, Brandon Clark, if healthy, and we haven't even gotten to Vince Williams or G.G. Jackson Jr. Or Camp Spencer, who they resign.

It's a deep team. It's a good team. It still hasn't answered the question to me of like, they're not as good as even if they get the Jaws season that they're dreaming of, right? If Jaya reasserts himself as maybe a third team, all-N-Bee-level player, whatever he was on track to be, second-team all-n-n-a, no-brain-all-star. even if they get that season out of him,

I don't think they're as good as Houston, Denver, or Oklahoma City now. I agree. And I'm not sure what the pathway. I mean, they could be a very good team in the West for a very long time, and that's fine. And maybe you just do what the Mavericks did in Dirk's years.

Like, let's just be really good long enough. So we get to the one year where enough things hit and we get the team. Maybe that's all there is. But where did you think of the Jackson deal and where is this team going? Yeah. they telegraphed for months, obviously, that they were going to do this with with Jaron. That was the whole point of that Marcus Smart trade and getting off of that money. They just didn't want to risk leaving him out there as an unrestricted free agent a year from now,

even if they could outbid teams in that moment. It's a high wire act to do that. So I, to me, I don't think they think they're done at all. I think part of the reason they traded Bain for those picks was to turn around. around and use some of them in future deals. Now, they did use basically two of them to go and get a coward who they're high on and think could be a starting caliber wing very soon. But I don't think they think they're done. I think that Aldama contract could end up in play. I think that KCP contract could definitely end up in play where they look at different things they could do

with the picks and that KCP thing and other matching salary, whether it's Kanshar or other dudes to get them another high-level player. I think because if you're just Moran and Jackson as your two sort of top 40 players on the team, I don't think that's good enough, especially in this West. If you get a third guy like that and you're deep, now you're in the conversation again, I think. And I think Memphis is trying to get back toward that and be sort of like get somebody who can be as good or better than Des was and still fill in with more depth around him.

And I think that just, it's right now they're in the opportunism mode where, oh, we can get four first for Des. Okay, let's go. Oh, we can get Ty Jerome three for 28. Let's go. And I don't think they're at the point where they think this is a finished product, though. Yeah, I think to Jerome deal is great. You know, a lot of people asking Jerome and Merrill ended up getting roughly equivalent. annual salaries should the cads have kept jerome over merrill jerome clearly a better player i wonder

if this is one of those scenarios where it's like maryl was not getting any more than that on the open market and jerome had all these offers had at least one offer at this level but like kind of expects the incumbent team to maybe pay a little bit more knowing him and being familiar with him but i don't whatever they can survive ty jerome leaving memphis to me to that that cleveland situation was if ty jerome's agent is telling you he has 14 on the table, then you take Lonzo ball at 10. Right. And you know, and you never know if the agent is, having been this on the team side, you never totally know if the agent is bluffing or not.

It seemed reasonable that Ty Jerome might have that on the table, right? It wasn't like, ha, ha, ha, get out of here. So I understood why Cleveland did what they did. And then obviously, Ty Jerome did struggle in the postseason and Lonzo gives him a little different look with more defense and that small back court especially. Yeah, I talked about the Lonzo trade briefly, Lonzo for Akoro on Saturday. Like it for the Cavs. Don't care really either way for the Bulls.

I just don't feel strongly about it for the Bulls. I talked about already. I will say one thing I forgot to know, like Lonzo really, he's still a very good defensive player. He's got incredible instincts. He's a great passer, all that. He really just became, he only shoots threes now. Like, 80% of his shots last year were threes.

Yeah. I think that's a tell about his, his athleticism after all the injuries and all the knee issues. It's, it's veering towards like, he'll never be one dimensional because of his passing. But I would like to see him, like, maybe approach the paint at some point if his body allows him to, but he's still a delightful player to watch. Okay. Aldama deal fine. Like, that was, he had mid-level offers and they paid him a little bit of. bit more than the mid-level. That's just kind of standard business. Any other notes on that?

Yeah. I mean, it'll be declining money just because they're a room team. They have plenty of afloat under the tax. So that by 27, 28, when he's only making 15 and change, that could be a seen as a value contract around the league. We'll see. Speaking of declining money, you are better qualified than anyone I could have on this podcast to tell me the impact of the cap projection for 2627. The NBA is now projecting a 7% increase. Now, teams, a lot of teams were assuming just annual 10% increases every year because the TV revenue is coming in.

The NBA pointedly never projected that. The NBA projections were always more conservative. So this 7% projection was not the NBA walking back a more aggressive projection on its part. But it certainly was, you know, and it amounts to like. the tax and the aprons are five or six million dollars lower every year than that year and maybe every year forward based on the assumed 10%. Like how big a deal is that?

I mean, there are teams who like based their contracts on, I think, that assumption. And now, you know, contracts that rise at 8% annually could outpace the cap. How big a deal is this? Yeah. The biggest thing is that the assumption before was that the cap rises would outrun the maximum raise allowed in a contract, which is 8%. And so when you go from a 10% rise in the cap to a 7%, all of a sudden it's the opposite situation where those raises actually are a bigger percentage

of the cap as they continue. So you worry a little more about those contracts. And then the other thing you worry about is, well, wait, if the increase is only 7% next year, what does it mean for the year after that? Like this, oh, that's only as far as the TV money wave goes. And I think people thought it would go three, four, five years in. I think probably the reason it doesn't is because all the local TV money is kind of dried up. And so we'll see how the league deals with that. But I think bigger than the 2627 question is what does it mean for 27, 28, 28, 29? I don't know if we can presume those 10% or near 10% increases in those years either.

And that's what things could really get squeezed, especially with some of these extensions we've seen signed. Even though a few of those extensions will get collapsed along with the cap, like the Booker one, which is going to be two years for a phenomenal amount of money based on the 10% projection, that's going to telescope along with the cap projection. SGA, too. There was news this morning. SGA has agreed to a four-year extension. I believe that kicks in in 27, 28 for him, where he'll be making 35% of whatever the cap is. then. And then there are just other guys like, you know, that are coming up for like that will be Amen Thompson's first year on his next deal, which could be a max the way he's playing. Like it just,

it's going to have implications. Okay. Speaking of teams who are doing limboes under various aprons and, and other things, the New York Knicks have had an eventful 12 hours adding Jordan Clarkson to a bench that they will presumably play this year. And then today stealing Gershon Yabuselli, the dancing bear from the Philadelphia 76ers, which by my calculations takes them right up to what, the second apron almost, just under the second apron? They can add one more minimum and they'll be under the second apron by like a million dollars, I think. So that's two quality bench guys, reliable bench guys, before you get to Pascomdadi,

Tyler Kolek, who I think need chances to play this year and maybe they bring back sham it on the minimum or something like that. they still don't have a coach. There's a lot of buzz and a lot of reporting. I think Mark Stein has led the way on this that Mike Brown is the leader in the clubhouse. And Mark Stein reported this morning, our old colleague and friend, that maybe James Morego would come in as the top assistant. Maybe he gets associate head coach title, I don't know.

That's an interesting combo we can talk about. But, you know, Clarkson getting bought out from the jazz, you know, I don't love him, but I think he fits a need for the Knicks as someone who can just create shots off the dribble and compromise the defense. I love Yabuselli in that slot for them. I think he's versatile and interesting. And if he shoots a three like that, it's a big plus. That's a good, that's a nice clean off season, I think, for the Knicks, other than the

coaching thing, which, you know, you do need a coach at some point. Yeah, relatively important. The Knicks can't really change that much about what they have on the court at the end of the day. I mean, they're, you know, Yaviselli and the precious to chew a slot. Great. Clarkson gives him one more guard and he probably takes the campaign role, right? That's fine at all.

But it's the same top seven guys. And I think that's one of the reasons they opted to change coaches is because they can't change anything else at this point. And so can somebody else get more out of this team offensively than Thibbs was able to do? Then that's why I think, you know, Mike Brown, offensive innovator, James Barago, I think A would be a great hire. We interviewed him in Memphis. He was fantastic. And unfortunately, they don't give out silver medals in coaching searches. But I think he would be really good there.

And obviously it would be great for him to get a lifeboat off the good ship Pelicans right now. And I don't know. I could see that really being a good partnership in New York. Like if they brought in like a Brown-Berego combination, I can definitely get behind that. Brown Borigo sounds like a color. Like, do you have that table in Brown Borago? Notes here, we have, okay, we got a couple of things to react to, John.

Are you ready? Okay, yes. Breaking news. I promise you we're going to get back to the Knicks coaching search. The bucks are trading Pat Knottenot and Pat Conantin. Sorry, Pat, I do that all the time. Pat Conantin and two second round picks to the Hornets for Vasilia Micheach. I assume that's just a salary dump of some kind.

It is, but that's, I wonder, I think Meechich is going to take a buyout on his contract to go to Europe. I think that's where the logic is. So basically, there might be a little bit of money left over on Michich, but he would be stretched. But the Bucks can't just stretch Coniton because it puts them over the 15% limit of stretch contracts after they stretch Lillard. but they get stretched, I think it's like $2 million or something in salaries still. And so you do this deal for Michich. Mich takes a buyout that gets his number down from $8 million to like $2 or whatever.

And then you stretch that and Meechish goes off and plays in Europe like he was planning to anyway. Breaking News Part 2. Okay. Sacramento Kings have signed Dennis Schrooter three years $45 million, which is convenient for me because I wanted to talk to you about the Pistons. We will get back to the Knicks. Please remind me to get back to the next. Reactions to that deal and the Pistons, let's bring up the Pistons now. Where's my Pistons sheet? It's here somewhere. Here it is. The Pistons, I have signed Karras Levert. There's been a little bit of Malik Monk noise. We'll see what happens.

Nothing has happened with Tim Hardaway Jr. And a lot has happened with Malik Beasley, who is now ensnared in some sort of gambling-related investigation. I don't, I think the pistons could be operating either under the cap with Lavert or more likely, I think, over the cap. They brought back Paul Reed as well. Any reaction to Schroeder, any inklings on what might happen with the pistons who also get Jaden Ivy back, by the, which is a big deal. The Monk fit, if it happens, I'm not sure what maybe that would be attached to this. If this is not a sign-in-case, then maybe they're not going to. It would be a sign-in trade. And honestly, Detroit should do this as a sign of trade, even if they're not getting Monk back.

Like, Schroeder's going to go into Sacramento's mid-level exception. But if you're Detroit, it might be worth, might be worth including a like second round pick swap or something, send it to Sacramento and generate a $14 million trade exception for Schroeder on his way out the door that you could use later. Because you've already used, you're using your actual mid-level exception on the verdict. Lavert, you're resigned and read with bird rights. I think cap room scenarios are pretty much out the window for them at this point. I like this. I like flying blind like this. Let's just, let's go.

And then if it is a sign of trade, month can be in that trade. Like those salaries line up and Schrooter can actually get the one thing is Schrooter could actually get more money in a sign and trade than that three for 45 that was that was reported. I mean, the Kings don't have to. at ESPN, by the way, to give them credit there. And if they did get Monk and we'll see what happens, that would mean turning the Hardaway Beasley, you know, three point double barrage into Lavert and Monk

who are more versatile ball handlers, obviously Levert, not quite a shooter on their level. But I think overall that would be a talent upgrade and a versatility upgrade. The issue would be Levert was a two-year deal, I believe, right? Was it two years 29? Munk's got that third year, which is a player option,

for like 21 and a half million. That's a non-trivial amount of money on your cap. But I think Detroit is set up to be a really solid team next year. And I think Ivy coming back is, you know, we're going to learn how he fits and all of that. And they're obviously, if they got Monk and Lavert, they're loading up on secondary ball handlers. But I think that's not to be slept on the way Ivy shot the ball last year and learned how to play around Cade. We'll see what happens with Monk. but Trude or fine, Sacramento needed a point guard.

Lavert is, I think, an okay fit for Detroit. There's been Duncan Robinson buzz there, too. Duncan Robinson had this bizarre, like, partially guaranteed early termination option. I didn't really understand any of that, but he's now a free agent is what I do understand. Yeah. So he had 10 million guaranteed of 20 million. So if he had opted into the 20 million, Miami could have then waived him and cut that number to 10. and it seems like

A, he wanted a little bit of control over where he was going to end up and B, I think by him opting out, it leaves the door open for him to be included in a sign and trade if something happens with Miami and Kaminka, for instance. And so there are some doorways there. You wonder what Miami told him about what the heat would be willing to do for him

if he opted out of that deal. But yeah, it seems like, and again, for him to end up in Detroit, that would have to be part of a sign and trade or something too, because they've used their mid-level on Lavert. Lavert is a two-year deal that cannot be converted into a sign and trade. So it would have to come via some other mechanism to get Duncan Robinson to Detroit. I presume he didn't opt out of 20 million to take a minimum in Detroit. That would be some bad agent, right? Malik, yes, Malik Monk is a better player than Duncan Robinson. I don't think there's any question about that.

Yes. On a team with Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivy, and Karras Levert, I wonder if I'd almost rather have Duncan Robinson on a shorter and perhaps less expensive contract given the fact that I don't have anyone who just profiles as a knockdown movement shooter in that group. I think that's a great call. And again, if you do Shruder outbound as a sign and trade, you can take Duncan Robinson inbound and do, it has to be a three-year deal, but you can do the three-year deal. but you can do the third year non-guaranteed, I don't know, three for 33 or something and call it good.

Back to the Knicks. You mentioned that you like the idea of the Brown-Borego combination. I love it. I love it in this sense. Like if you're going to move on from Tibbs, which was a gutsy decision, time will tell if it was the right one or the wrong one and who drove it, whether it was Dolan the players, some combination of both, Leon Rose, I don't know. Mike Brown has this insane winning percentage that's like top whatever among all-time coach. A lot of that is piled up in the LeBron Cavs 1.0 teams. The Lakers was obviously a disaster.

The Cavs 2.0 was obviously a disaster. I thought he did great work with Sacramento. And obviously all of that has come apart and none of it is his fault because it's impossible for it to be the coach's fault in Sacramento. And I'm not even being facetious. You know, he is Tibsey in that he really likes to practice. And he really likes to have like aggressive practice. and shootarounds.

And he is defense first, and I thought he did an admirable job sort of like leaning more offense early in Sacramento. Obviously got the sort of Golden State vibes by osmosis into his brain. Like, oh, a little more fun, a little more easygoing.

I wouldn't say that there's any evidence at all that Mike Brown is like a playoff X's and O's calculator at any level above Tibbs. He did some nice things against the Warriors in that series, the King's lost in seven games. I'd have to go back and look. But that's where Borago, I think, comes in. If you think Barago, I'm not, am I really ready to hire him as the head guy? He's like relatively unknown, not a ton of like head coaching experience in the NBA. Mike Brown's sort of got the persona for it. Could I hire him as like the adjustment

calculator guy? Yeah. I think that's a good combo. I think it's a good balance. I agree with that. And I do think Mike Brown, though, even as fibsy as some of his instincts are, I do think he's going to lean more into some of the smaller lineups that New York just never even got to last year with playing five shooters together and doing a few other creative things, even during the course of the season, where New York, I thought, really left money on the table. And so they didn't always know what they were even capable of when they got to that postseason. Yeah, Thibs, too, is great. Actually, Thibs made more adjustments in this last postseason than I think we've ever seen him. Against the Celtics in particular. Yeah. And even in the Indiana series, too.

And the problem was that New York had no experience through the whole season with any of these adjustments. It was all throwing new stuff at his own team that they had literally never done. You know, apropos of nothing. I'm a little, I'm a little angrier about the Miles' turn. everything than I was an hour ago from Indiana's perspective. I get it. I get it. I explained that I get it.

I already covered it. I get it. Just leaves a little. The part that's crazy. He was in trade rumors like every day for nine years. And then this spring was like, nope, okay, it's finally solved. He's going to get paid. It's all going to have a happy ending.

So you just can't ever pay the tax. Like it's just not possible. Like Herb Simon's like doing that badly financially. Like you own an NBA team. I don't, okay. All right. I know. It's not like the nuggets who are going to be a repeater and like have actual incentive to not be the tax.

What was I going to say? Okay, two other teams. I don't know. We're talking about the Knicks, fine, whatever. Two other teams I want to get to. Because you got to give them love. They're a little under the radar right now. You've got to give them love.

Do Orlando Magic? Yes. Tyos Jones. Yes. Welcome into town. An actual point guard who can like get into the paint and like, like push the ball and they might run a fast break this year. I, this is exciting stuff.

I love the magic getting a real point guard. Even one who is not the most aggressive point guard, part of the reason why Tyos Jones and his brother are the kings of the assisted turnover ratio is that they are not risk takers and, you know, head down drivers. But boy, do I like this team getting an organizer who can take some of the load off Palo and Franz and not make sure that jail and Sunday. is not overtaxed as a ball handler nor is Desmond Bain. We know their starting five is going to be what it is.

And then off the bench now, Tyos Jones fits right in next to Anthony Black, Jonathan Isaac, Goga. I've just been assuming all along Mo Wagner will come back on some kind of deal because, A, he was excellent for the magic before tearing his ACL and B, he's Franz's brother. And then, you know, they're going to have to get something out of like the Jet Howard, De Silva, Jace Richardson, combo off the bench with it. Again, this just profiles as a rock solid team. And I think Tyos Jones is a perfect filling of a need at a good price for the magic.

I think that's absolutely correct. I think they saw Desmond Bain, I think, is kind of the last piece of their puzzle. And they might do some fine-tuning stuff from here. But I think they, in their mind, like this is their five with, you know, with Wendell Carter as a starting center. They have their guys in their mind, I think. I think there's a lot of belief internally still in Black and De Silva that they still maybe have not shown on the court. By the way, I would be bullish on both of those guys too.

I think De Silva is a really interesting Swiss Army knife kind of prospect. And Black, it's like we're all going to belabor the jump shot. He's never going to be a great shooter. But he does a lot of things well. And his athleticism just pops off the screen, like going to the rim like with such force. I'm buying the Anthony Blackstock. Yeah, I think they have a lot of faith that he can become good enough as a three-point shooter, especially from the corners that you could have him on the court for his defense and for his ball handling, even if he might not ever be like,

when he came out, I think he was envisioned more as a full-time point guard. I think he might actually be a wing. But at his size, like, he could do that easily. Like, he's huge. Magic are going to be absolutely no fun to play against. You know, I mentioned that recently about how, you know, someone said, could they be the new Pacers? By that, they just met like the team that rises up in the void of the East. Oh, yeah. Easily. And for sure they could. But one of the, the comparison I made was the Pacers really benefited from we have a very specific and unique to us identity. And we're going to lean all the way into that with every player we sign and every scheme we run and every philosophical decision we make. And I think, although Orlando's

specific unique identity looks absolutely nothing like the Pacers. I think they have one too, which is we are going to beat the snot out of you on defense and make everything physical and uncomfortable and they've leaned into that too. Are we prepared to discuss the possibility of an Orlando Houston finals? 63.59. I'm just saying like a 114 loose ball fouls. I mean no disrespect. And I realize that everyone who says they mean no disrespect is immediately going to say, something disrespectful. So I will say something disrespectful. Nobody in the East is scared of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Like nobody. And I think they walk in next season as the favorite and the best team and they'll win a whole shit ton of games again. And I'm talking Hawks, Magic who played them in a seven game series

two years ago, Knicks, whoever it may be, Pistons, I mean, fistons maybe should be a little scared. Yonis, like, I'd probably pick the Cavs right now to win the East. But none of these teams are like, oh, well, we can't beat the Cavs. They're like, the Cavs. they roll over every goddamn playoffs. We can beat the Cavs. That's all I'm saying about the Cavs. I think we have to get to Luke Cornett and the St. Antonio Spurs. Four years, $41 million.

I mean this when I say like, I think this is a freaking awesome signing for the Spurs. Luke Cornet is good. Is he good enough to play 25 minutes for your favorite basketball team in real high stakes games? Probably not. Is he good enough to play 15 minutes behind Victor Wembeyanama doing Luke Cornett things.

Abs of freaking Lutely. Can you play him next to Victor Wembe Gama a little bit here and there? Absolutely. He's just, you know, he's big, he's gawky, he's goofy, he does funny gestures when he makes free throws, he's a colorful personality.

The dude is a good basketball player. He's a very good rim protector. He can finish lobs. The shot that I really would like to see him develop like a little six foot, eight foot floater. He doesn't quite have that in his arsenal yet. But he's just, he can switch in a pinch. and keep some guards in front of him with Bavian big like this.

I think this is a meaningful signing for the Spurs. I think this really, like, he's a fit. And I just like the summer they've had overall. I think it's been a good one for them. I like the Carter Bryant pick. I think they needed one more really good three and D wing. The question now for San Antonio is, I mean, what are they going to do in the back court? Can it be Castle and Fox and Harper going forward?

Or do they have to make another move there to move some of that talent into the two, three, four spots to really optimize their roster? But I think you play it out for a year there before you really make any rash decisions. Again, I said this earlier with Waz. I think the spurs have really thread the needle artfully of Kevin Durant. No, it's just we're not quite ready. but you look at their team Fox, I would project their starting lineups

probably Fox Castle, Vassel, Barnes, Wembenyama could take or leave a Barnes for a Sohan or a Kelden Johnson, whatever floats your boat. Off the bench, Harper, Bryant, Sohan, Kelden Johnson, Cornett,

Malachi Bran and Blake Wesley behind that. Like, that's a good team. And I think- Oh my God, Zach. What happened? How can you ignore the Champagne's supernova? Yeah, there's a lot of champagnees rolled around.

They're both good. They're all good. Well, the Spurs one is good. I don't think Sohan is going to be part of that future. Well, but here's my point. Like, I think the Spurs can look at that team. Like, we haven't really even seen Fox and Wembaamba. We haven't really even seen Fox Vassell and Wemba.

Can Vesel stay healthy? What more can he give me on offense and on defense? There's still untapped stuff there. Castle's in year two. We got two rookies everybody really seems like, including the number two pitch. There's a world in which their young guys, including Wembe and Yama, frankly, develop a little faster. I mean, these are like blue, blue chip young guys.

Like, they develop fast enough that this team outperforms expectations next year. And they have all their powder dry going forward. I think saying out of the Durant thing was smart. Yes. We'll see whatever happens if Janus ever becomes Truliaville. But I just like that they've thread this needle of, like a cornet signing is a perfect. needle thinner helps our team next year fills a need we can't we didn't really have a backup five none of our options really worked now we solidify that let's not rush it i but i think they're going to be

good next year and i like what they've done i do too i think they they still have a lot of optionality they probably uh threw a shoe through their tv when some of these Atlanta deals were announced because that was one of their best offset uh best assets right but you're still looking to a scenario where you you have the salary match for any deal you want to make with Barnes and Kelton Johnson to get that kind of third star on the wing to go with Fox and Wendy. And it's just a question of waiting for the right one to come along. And then the other thing is you have sort of built up this three decades of equity where players say, I want to go to San Antonio, even though it's in the middle of nowhere and the flights all suck and all the things we complain

about when we go there. They don't shoot to mind all that. Food is great. And a great, one of my favorite all-time NBA nights in San Antonio was during the final, anywhere, it was during the finals, barbecue, and then we went to some bar, a bunch of us with a big outdoor space, and shout out, she's going to know who she is. There were about 10 of us there. She ordered Bud Light Limes for all of us, and all of us were like, Bud Light Lime, this is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself for ordering this. She was like, just try it. You're going to like it. And by the end of the night, we're like, Bud Light Lime! And then, spoiler, John Hollinger, I had a poker night at my house. maybe six months ago

and I bought Bud Light Lime as kind of a lark for the group. It's not good. Apologies to Bud Light who made, for all I know, sponsors to this podcast. It turns out it was just the aura of the NBA finals

outdoors in San Antonio that made Bud Light Lime taste good. It's not good. Last question for you. Very last one. The Dallas Maverick signed DeAngelo Russell

to their tax mid-level exception, completing the vision. Defense wins championships. Yeah, obviously. Just give me your quick and dirty. I've talked about the Mavs. I think they're good.

I'm not quite ready to buy them as like a title contender until I see Kyrie come back and play. And even then, I'm not sure. But they're good. They're deep. They're big. What's your projection on the Mavs? I think you about nailed it. I think without Kyrie this year, they're just, their ceiling just isn't that high to me.

You already know Davis is going to miss time too. So it's a lot to put on Cooper Flagg and his rookie. a year to kind of carry that. I think Russell is an amazing stopgap for what they had to pay for him. I mean, he will create offense. He will make open shots. I think they had a lack of shooting up and down that roster, you know, other than Clay who's probably coming off the bench. So I think Russell really solves that. And then I presume he's going to go back into the market next year, but you'll have Kyrie next year. Bigger picture, I mean, the big picture question about the is whether this is the way they should be going at all, whether they should trade Davis,

trade Kyrie, and build the whole thing around Cooper Flag in years two, three, four, five, and try to get kind of younger and more assets around that. They also got a lot of dudes in the front court, and I'm wondering if they're going to thin that herd at some point. Especially like that Gafford extension to me is something that you do to make it tradable as much as you do to just extend him for your own team. They probably want to trust in Lidley's health a little more. they probably need to get slapped in the face by the fact that Anthony Davis is, yes, actually a center.

He does too. I mean, how many years are this? Are we going to like, so like we saw it last year. Look, defensively and on the glass, I mean, it feels disingenuous to note that the Adams-Sengun pairing worked so well for Houston and then be like, well, Anthony Davis has to be the five. The difference is they found something with like the, we're just going to rebound literally half of our misses with that group. and that's going to make up for everything else that usually comes with being double center. Davis doesn't play like that as the four. He just sort of floats around the perimeter as an 18-foot jump shooter, which great for defense offensively. It just I didn't see enough to like, okay, now I'm ready to have him play 75% of his minutes as a four.

Yeah. The only way that works to me is if you have a Miles Turner type five next to him, who's just above the three point line all the time. And then Davis is, he's playing offensive. more as a five years, rem running and stuff. And then on defense, you're like, no, Anthony, you're the four. Like, everything's fine. All right.

John Hollinger, you got to go back to work because you're part of the athletics, just live, constant coverage of everything in free agency. Maybe in a night we'll find out if Malik Monk is indeed heading to Detroit in a sign of trade. But we covered a lot. It was an eventful morning. Thank you for your time, sir. Read John at the athletic.

Listen to him on Hollinger and Duncan. and he is the best in the business. I'll be back. I think it's Tuesday at 1 p.m. now. I think I'll be back maybe. We'll see. Thursday. Who knows?

That's a holiday weekend is coming up. I completely forgot about it. If there's more news, there will be more Zach Lowe show later in the week. Thank you to Chris, Ronick, Isaiah, and Jesse for today on production for rolling with all the variables. Thank you to John Hollinger. Thank you to Big Waz. I will see you next time on the Zach Lowe show.

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