The Zach Lowe Show - NBA News of the Week and Predictions With Steve Nash, Plus Aaron Nesmith on the Pacers' Season Ahead

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Zach begins by reacting to a few late-breaking news items (0:00) before welcoming Steve Nash to get his media feet wet by talking about some of the other stories around the league (4:52), including Westbrook’s latest team, LeBron’s injury, and more. Then, the two run through their picks for NBA awards this season (28:32), followed by their picks for the NBA Finals (54:30). Lastly, Aaron Nesmith hops on with Zach (1:13:35) to look ahead to this coming Pacers season, as well as look back on their magical playoff run. Not to mention some board game talk, training camp secrets, and a whole lot more! Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Steve Nash and Aaron Nesmith Producers: Mike Wargon, Jesse Aron, and Jonathan Frias Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available Learn more and join waitlist at ScoutMotors.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, we got a loaded Zach Lowe show coming up for your Thursday listening pleasure. A couple newsy things happened after we got off with Steve Nash and Aaron Needsmith. Thought I would just address them real quick up front. Number one, Jaden Ivy underwent knee surgery. He will be re-evaluated in four weeks. Re-evaluated does not mean back in four weeks. It means reevaluated. Could end up missing a quarter of the season, 20 games-ish.

I mean, four weeks would be 15 games, round up from there. It's a significant loss for the Pistons who also lost Dennis Schroeder in the offseason. Marcus Sasser is a decent stopgap option. Karris Levert is sort of a hybrid guard. If you don't want to play Sassar, you can play Levert as a backup point guard. But, you know, the sort of formula for the Pistons to sustain or improve on what they had last season was out went Schrooter, Hardaway, and Beasley, in came Ivy back from injury, Duncan Robinson and Lavert.

I thought that was just either lateral or maybe a slight step up and all-round play, but that required Ivy to be healthy and a starter next to Cade Cunningham. That was the plan. I think he shot 41% on catch and shoot 3s last year. That's the blueprint. Second side pick and roll. Swing it. Boom.

You run the offense coming off a screen fast pace. You don't get to run it, run it. That's Kade's job. You get to run it when Kades on the bench, stagger the minutes. That plan goes up and smoke a little bit. And look, I took the under on Detroit at 46.5. I still think they're on a nice upward swing. The wild card in that taking the under is they have the goods to make a whole lot of trades.

Any trade they kind of want, guy like Lowry Marketing would fit there well. We'll see. I still think they're on a nice upward trend. Still think they're going to be a top six team in the playoffs this year. But this opens up a little crack in that top six. For someone below that, you know, a Boston and Indiana, a Miami to sort of punch up with Toronto to sort of punch up a little bit and see what happens. But I still love Detroit. This hurts.

They've got some solutions. This hurts. And it's bad timing for Ivy as he is obviously eligible for an extension. If you'll recall with Fred Katz of the athletic, we predicted all the sort of leftover big picture, high wattage, whatever rookie deal extensions. I was a no on Jaded Ivy. I didn't see a deal happening anyway. this would make it seem less likely to me. Jalen Duren, I was a tentative yes on.

I don't know how I'm feeling about that. We'll talk about the Keegan Murray extension on this episode, by the way. The other thing that happened, A.J. Green, as I have predicted several times, signed a four-year, $45 million extension with the Milwaukee Bucks. AJ Green's a good player. Fits well with Yonis for as long as Yonis is there. Could be forever. Could not be forever.

Has a great pick and roll combination with chemistry with Yonis. The screener pop out, fly out for threes. He's great at that. Better defender than you think moves his feet pretty well. He's strong. It's a good deal for him. Obviously, he locks in a huge amount of money coming off a borderline minimum contract. Good deal for the bucks.

They get a good player. I bet Aegee Green outperforms that contract. But it's a fair deal for both sides. The guy's just a rock-saw player. If he starts this year, that might be like, you know, outkicking his ideal role a little bit. But he fits with the honest and he's a good player. That's a good deal. That's what you pay for good players.

So those are the two newsy tidbits. All right. Now, Steve Nash. Yeah, that's Steve Nash, the MVP, joined us. He's on Amazon this year. He's on Prime. We talked all the big picture stuff coming in the NBA season. I made him.

He's going to have to be, he's in the media, he's going to have to give takes. He's going to have to make people mad. He's going to have to criticize people. So we had him go through the news of the weekend, Kegan Murray, Russell Westbrook, the Kings. We had him predict his awards winners for the year. And both of us predicted the NBA finals matchup and picked the 2026 NBA champions. That's coming up with Steve Nash. Then Aaron Neesmith, remember Niecemouth Island?

When there was nobody there, it's popular now. And Aaron Neesmith, the Aaron Neesmith of Neesmith Island fame joins us to talk about the Pacer's crazy playoff run. His role in the crazy playoff run in some of the crazy comebacks, the Halliburton injury, and how the Pacers are going to make the doubters like me look stupid this year. That's all coming up on The Zach Lowe show. You're listening to The Zach Lowe show presented by Fanduel. The S&BIA season put the power of the star. sportsbook in your hands with Fandals your way.

Your way let you create bets you can't find anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customized player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus, with your way, you can even make head-to-head bets by position or player. Just download the Fandandles Sportsbook app to play your way. Must be 21 over in President Select States and 18-year-over in D.C. Kentucky and Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or visit RG-HELP.com. Call 1-88-7-7-7-7.

or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show and look who it is. Amazon Prime analyst, host of a Mind the Game podcast that features some other player. I don't know who it is. Two-time NBA MVP Hall of Famer, Steve Nash. Wow, how are you doing? Doing great. Thanks, Zach.

How are you? Did I miss anything? No, that's about it. I don't know. So you're a father of life. You're a very nice person. You're a good teammate. Are you ready for this media thing where you're really going to have to start

letting the takes fly? Are you ready? You know, I don't know if I'm going to be Mr. Take, but I'm ready. I think it's exciting. You know, one, it's been fun to sit with LeBron regularly, talk hoops. And then now, you know, like we just had three days of rehearsals with Taylor, Taylor Rooks, my good buddy, Dirknewitzke, Blake Griffin, you, Donis has them, and the five of us just having a blast all day talking hoops,

trying to get our, you know, our game going, so to speak. And it's been a lot of fun. I don't know. I didn't know what to expect. I think I was kind of a little apprehensive, and I'm sure there would be some nerves opening night. But it's just so fun to sit with those guys and talk and Taylor's a pro. So I'm excited for that as well. She's very, very good.

You guys are going to have a very good show. It's a good crew. Mine is Dirk. I think Dirk is replaceable. Yeah, you see. Dispensible. All right. Well, we might as well, we might as well just die.

right into it like takes news we're just what you're going to have to do now for a living uh so you probably saw on instagramm i was very mean to the sacramento kings on bills uh over under podcast uh i said i hate the roster doesn't mean i i i like individual parts like we all love watching debarterosen shoot 20 footers sabona's bringing the ball up zach levin is smooth as hell and dunks on everybody like i like the pieces i just hate how they fit i i am astonished at how a team could be so bad for long and yet have so few enticing high upside young players, although we're going to hit knee Clifford. I kind of like him.

It's astonishing to me that a team could have two all-star, all-NBA level point guards, and then like you blink it, they have zero. And yet they also have 9,000 guards on the team, not enough forwards. And over the weekend, to help cure all of that, they signed Russell Westbrook, another guard, another person who needs the ball, another person who can't shoot threes for a team that was 24th in three point rate last year. He's a big name. He had moments for Denver last year,

including in his revenge series against the Clippers, one of the greatest technical foul maybe of all time in NBA history. Is this anything, Steve Nash? Can he help this team at all? Of course he can help him. Russ is going to find a way to impact games. You know, he's with his, whether it's his cutting or an offensive rebound or, you know,

the odd ISO still there to be able to maybe catch and go and attack a closeout. But big picture, it's just interesting, like, where are they going? Like, what's their out button here? You know, they're in the Western Conference. I don't see them making a playoff push. So where are the assets? You know, obviously Murray is down right now. But, you know, you just try to look around and say, like, what's the next step,

the next evolution for their team? And that's where I think we all kind of scratch our head. Yeah, they don't have, like, much coming in in terms of, like, draft equity. considering they just did a big Fox trade. They have half of a Spurs pick in 2027 that they're not likely to get because it's, they'd have to spurs would have to miss the playoffs for the Kings to get it. Then they have a Minnesota pick in 2031 that was kind of a golden pick. But they also have to swap their own pick with San Antonio has swap rights with them in that same year,

which is a disaster because anytime you can swap with the Kings, it's generally a good thing. I just look at this team. Like, I'm sorry Kings fans. They're not even mad. They're just not even mad. They're just like, I know, I know it's like the starting lineup's going to be Shruder, DeRosen, Murray, when he's healthy, we'll get to that. Subonis. And then off the bench, it's just a bunch of guards.

Monk, Russ, Carter, Keon Ellis, I like Neat Clifford. Got some big guys, this Rayneau kid from France that they drafted is interesting, Drew Eubanks. I don't know who the backup power forward is. I don't know how all, I mean, this is an interesting puzzle piece for you as a person who put the puzzle together and made it work as your job. Damar needs the ball and doesn't shoot threes Levine needs the ball does shoot threes so what does it look like when their best three-point shooter has the ball

Shruder needs the ball Russ needs the ball Monk needs the ball and often controls like and you can like I think Russell help them with pace right one cure for a so-so shooting team is just run like hell so your spacing doesn't even matter you just put the shot up before you're spacing

and you can see like all these guys are very high IQ players so they'll be there'll be sets in the half court where the cutting, the handoffs, all that stuff can work. But like, how does this actually work? They're going to be a bad defensive team. If they're a bad offensive team, they're going to be an abysmal overall team. Well, I think you summed it up. I think they're just not a playoff defensive team.

Like, their defense can't get them to the playoffs. So offensively, they got plenty of guys who can play basketball. It's just how do they fit together? You know, Sabona's going to shoot more threes, give them tomorrow more room to operate. But then the ball is not in Zach's hands. It's probably going to be your best kind of. cat and mouse playmaker getting in the guts, collapsing the defense. But if you're

collapsing at defense, you got no one to throw it out to, you know, that becomes a problem. So I think, you know, they're going to have to come up with some interesting lineups, I think. Like, who does Monk play with? You know, who does Russ play with? Um, DeMar, what's his best lineup? Probably staggering him where maybe he comes out at first and goes back in and runs the second unit.

So they got to try to figure out some of these lineups because I think that's going to be the biggest puzzle for them is what, what are the matchups, what are the players that can play together? What lineups can offer spacing while you still have your better players on the floor. It's a puzzle. Some of those lineups are going to be small. Some of those bigger if you want to go big or not going to have enough shooting. So I think that's going to be a real challenge for him. Yeah, I was trying to think like, who should Russ play with in five-man

lineups? Because he's such a dramatic non-shooter the way teams guard him that it's like playing another center almost. And the answer might be he just shouldn't play much regardless, but he's going to play. I mean, they signed him to play, I would assume. And just the one that jumps off the page is like if you put Russ and Sabonis and three guys who can make threes like Monk, Levine, Murray, it could be interesting. If you put Russ plus DeRosen plus Subonis, I just feel like everything just gets sucked into a black hole in the paint. So this is the puzzle though, right? I mean, you coached, you were also the coach of the Brooklyn Nets. This is the puzzle.

This is the puzzle. And this is why shooting is so important in our game. You know, shooting and versatile defenders. And if you don't have that or you're not building towards that, like you're not building towards that. Like you're capped. I mean, your ceiling is capped. Like, especially in the West. Like, how are you going to compete with these playoff teams when other teams can just sit

in the lane all night and make you make threes from guys that don't expect it to make a bunch of threes? That's the most painful experience as a coach to sit out there. Maybe when we were with the nets, when we were banged up and we have a bunch of non-shooters and you're trying to find ways to play fast. But otherwise, they're just sitting in the lane saying, good luck, have fun all night. So that's going to be a challenge. I think they're going to have to find it and then see, look, are there some lineups where

we can hide our shooting deficiencies? Are we going to be big enough? for going to be able to defend it all. I mean, the shooting is one thing, but the defending, how are they going to get lineups out there that can defend consistently? So a lot of puzzles over there in Sacramento.

Look, I'm tripling down. I had a lot of Kings fans come at me over the weekend, being like, you're going to post this clip when the Kings are the sixth seed and win 47 games, 44 games. We're going to mock you and Bill. All right. Like, obviously, I would invite that

if you win 47 games, but I locked the under at 35 and a half. I bicycle locked it. I pad locked it. it and then I spent the weekend Googling what other kinds of locks were there. I was texting with Bill like, don't canals have locks where they like lock up the canal? I'm canal locking it. And I just said, and I'll stand by it.

Like if the goal of this team is to win games and make the playoffs, I think they're in for the year from hell. And it's already started with the Keegan Murray injury. Is Sabonis even going to want to stay here long term? What are all these players doing here? If the goal is not to win, then it's a different. story, but that's not how this team is built. I stand by my, this is the Hindenburg of NBA teams. They've got some competition. Like we'll see how the Pelicans do. They already have a big injury.

I just don't like this team. I don't like how they're built. I like a couple of the young players, namely Keegan Murray, five years, what, 70 million, 140 million, I think. Five years, 140 extension. I'm two for two on my extension predictions. I was a yes on Yovich and a yes on Murray at about this range. What do you think of Keegan Murray at about 28 million? million dollars a year. To be determined, realistically, though, a player of his size, a developing,

younger player, you know, that's kind of the market nowadays, the guy that can play, you know, both sides of the ball enough and has that frame, you know, that's kind of where the market is. Now, he's got to prove it still. He's got to continue to become an efficient shooter, be able to attack close-outs and make a play in Blender.

He's got to show that he can reliably defend consistently. But, you know, if you're Sacramento, I think that's a player you drafted you want to develop you know better than everyone what he's capable of so you hope there's some insight there that they said we see him being this type of player whether that's now or proving it out over the length of the contract you know i think the problem is is like so if they do have the year from hell what can how can they sell their parts how can they get assets can they go to playoff teams and take some of these guys and say you need that one more piece is monk valuable can you get

an asset or half an asset or seconds or whatever it is and because if if things aren't going well by Christmas, I think they got to start thinking about what's the next evolution of this franchise. They should already be thinking about it now. I would agree. They are not particularly well prepared for it because, again, like, who is the most enticing young player on the team? I think it's Keegan Murray, who's fine. And I like his deal fine. I'll get there.

I don't think Levine has much trade value with a $49 million player option next season. I don't think DeRosen has much trade value, although his partial guaranteed for next season at 25.7. I don't think Monk has much trade value because of his player option at 27, 28 for 22 million. Like, I just don't, I don't see, like... Limited amount of homes for those types of deals. As for Keegan, I think this deal's fine. Like, this is going to be 15% of the cap. And that's just kind of what you pay for a good 3&D player.

Now, for him to really live up to the dealer exceeded, he's just going to have to do, you said, blender, attacking closeouts, do more stuff with the ball. He's flashed stuff like that, and it just hasn't happened. Like, his usage rate has dropped each year, which is very unusual for a top five pick on a team that, you know, needs him to do something. But he's surrounded by all these dudes who need the ball. So you don't know if it's just the context of the team. He just doesn't get to do it. But to your point, like I went on the second spectrum tracking data.

His drives per 100 possessions. He was at five and a half last year. That's extremely low for a rotation player on a team that moves the ball pretty well, where you should get a lot of opportunities to pump, drive, make the next pass. To put it in perspective, Michael Porter Jr., who's like the poster guy for Can You Do a Little bit more, was at like three and a half per 100 possessions. The guy who replaced him in Denver, Cam Johnson, is at about 11.5, which is not that high, but is like a regular occurrence within the game.

that's where Kagan Murray needs to be. Forget about pick and roll. He barely runs any. And even post-ups, like I thought as a rookie, can this guy at least like if he gets a point guard switched on to him, do something with it? He had seven post-touches all of last season. Like I just think there are little elements of his game

that need to be rounded out. And I actually think he can round out those elements of the game with more touches. I just don't know that the touches are going to come this year. I believe in his defense, though. Yeah, that's a great point. And if he's not going to play Blender, if he's not going to post that mismatches, he's got to be elite shooting, elite defending. And so I think he has shown there's flashes there, but it's got to be proven.

It's got to be developed. And that's the big thing in the league nowadays. It's so competitive. The margins are so slim, like whether it's drafting, signing, recruiting, cap, you know, strategy, team building. Player development is so important. Everyone's got to invest heavily time, resources, and player development. And part of that is on the floor in games.

And if a guy doesn't get an opportunity to spread his wings, so to speak, at least a little bit, like fractionally every year try to expand. But to be the player he needs to be to kind of maximize that contract and that value in your cap, you know, that becomes tricky. For the record, I like the deal just fine for both sides. It's a great deal for Kagan Murray. I think it's a fine deal for the Kings. Sign it. Move on. Item number three.

I don't have a lot of takes on this. Malcolm Brogden kind of retired semi out of nowhere. Any reaction to that? Yeah, bum for him. I think he had a really nice career. A couple of All-Star games, I think. I don't think so. I don't think he ever made him.

Six men of the year, rookie of the year. I don't think any All-Star games. Almost certainly made one, but I could be wrong. But was... You are wrong. I'm wrong. I'm not looking now. You know what?

I love to be wrong. So that was good. We're all going to be wrong a lot. Like, I could be wrong about the Kings. Who knows? Put it this way. He was, I think, sniffing around an All-Star game a year or two there. So solid, solid player.

a good player, I should say. I think he's been banged up for a while. You know, like, just like even more than we would think and expect. You know, I think some of these, those years he even played, I think most recently Indiana where he had more minutes, still not, not himself, not moving well. So I think it's just undermined his career and feel for him. But, you know, I'm not sure anyone at the Knicks really thought

he was going to be a big contributor. I think it was just a flyer to see if that former player had something left. I co-signed everything on Malcolm Broad. and very interesting career, a good productive player who also didn't seem to stick anywhere he went, rookie of the year over Mbid.

Jova, drove a jover wedge into my friendship with Rachel Nichols that vote. She still hasn't forgiven me for voting Malcolm Brogden over Juel Mbid for Rookie of the year, even though Mbid played like 30-something games.

My only reaction present and future to this is I think it might actually be a blessing in disguise for the Knicks because I've already said, I am not, if I think Tyler Kolek or Pac-Hom Dodier has even like a 15% chance of becoming a decent rotation player in this year, next year, the year after.

I'm not cutting one of those guys or dumping them for the chance that Malcolm Brogden might be able to stay healthy for half an NBA season. And so they now are escaped that decision. So best of luck to Malcolm Brogden and the New York mix. Kavanaugh-Luny is out for two to three weeks with some knee injury that I didn't understand and had to Google. I don't really. I mean, it's just.

what's going on with the I just don't understand the pelicans it's just an injury disaster there all the time and this is only two or three weeks I don't want to overreact it could only be like five eight 10 12 games the margin of error is nothing in the western conference and this dude is like the adult in the room and the adult on defense executing putting people in the right places setting screens like this is just something I've got my eye on because he's never been the most athletic dude he had overcome a ton of injuries earlier in his career and their centers beyond him are very inexperienced. The whole team has been injury prone. If this lingers or limits him, my worry fact, he's not a household name. He's not a star, but my worry factor actually would increase fairly significantly

for the pelicans. I don't know, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Well, look, he's a high IQ player. He cares, you know, does the right things on the floor. He's always playing for the team, for the schemes, for the health of the offense, whatever it may be, he's going to do what's best for the team. The bad news and the good news are almost the same thing. The bad news, he's an aging player's had a ton of injuries. The good news is he's played hurt almost his whole career. He's been able to find ways to get things done hurt. So depending on the severity of the injury, you know, he's still such a high IQ player, someone who knows what to be, way to be the way to connect teammates, both ends of the floor. You know, if it's not like something

that's really taking him to the other side of the spectrum physically, he's still going to be able to have an impact. I think he'll have an impact as long as he can play some minutes because I think his IQ and his way to kind of teach on the fly some of the younger players, be the adult in the room, as you said. That'll be valuable. But again, like Western Conference, like you said, I mean, it doesn't matter who you are.

If you lose a rotation guy that you were expecting to play, that knocks you down a pig. I don't know many teams in the West that can afford to lose a rotation guy and stay within one or two spots of where they're expected to be. Well, especially a team that to refresh your memory, perhaps, will owe its pick unprotected to somebody this year because of a bad shit insane trade to move up and draft Dere Queen at number 13. Derek Queen may be very good. Just the value proposition of the trade was insane and Derek Queen's already injured. Atlanta, for those who forgot, will receive the best, the highest of Milwaukee's 26 first round, 2026 first round pick and the Pelicans, 2026 first round pick.

and Milwaukee gets the second best of those. New Orleans gets a big pile of nothing out of the whole thing other than Derek Queen, obviously. I'm just talking picks, nothing. So both Atlanta and Milwaukee just starts like, oh, okay? Yeah.

Obviously, you, the world has talked at nauseam about this pick and this trade. I mean, again, moving forward for the Pelicans, like the number one thing is what do we have with Zion? Like, is he going to be healthy and is he going to play well? And is he going to be as dominant as we think? you know, that's number one. I mean, Queen is a nice player.

I feel like he's going to have a great future in the league, but I don't know what his injury is, what the severity is, how often he's going to get reps. If him and Looney are out, if they're hampered, if they're, you know, not able to contribute the way we're expecting, that's going to be tough for this team. A lot more will depend on Zion, a guy who we're not even sure, like, you know, he's lost the weight.

He's come in and we think in a position to succeed and do well this year, but that'll be a lot of pressure on him and those tires have worn out quickly in the past. So a little bit concerned as you are. Yeah, that, I talked about the Pelicans last week on my pod and then on Bill's we did. I think we all went over on 32 and or 30 and a half. It was some like crazy low number. And one of my concerns about, aside from the health thing with Zion is because McCollum's gone,

pool I don't think is a sort of traditional point guard, let's say. Murray's hurt for some, maybe all, maybe most of the season. They're going to need point Zion more than they've ever needed. Ingram's gone. Point Zion has to be the focal point of the offense. And that's just a lot. It's a lot on him to handle the ball so much more than he's ever had to do it before. What does that do to his body?

I don't know. But this, I don't know, man. And potentially quarterbacking the back line and protecting the rim a little bit more if those guys are injured. So, yeah, it could be a lot. And, you know, they luckily have a couple big long wings who can defend a little bit. But overall, there's going to be a challenge just in that clubhouse as well. All right, Pelicans fans, if you want more last Thursday's episode of Zach Glow show, had plenty on the Pelicans.

I wanted to ask you this, in part because you are the host of the Mind the Game podcast with LeBron James, did he come back last week or did the trailer just drop last week? No, Cooper Flagg episode. That's right, dropped last week, right? No, well, we might have mentioned Cooper Flagg. It's a back. It was a more Lakers-centric first episode. Have you ever had sciatica before?

And I asked because you had back injuries and you had nerve issues in your legs. Have you ever actually had sciatica? Yeah, not sciatica, but similar. Nerve issues, retired with nerve issues. At the end of my career, that was tough. I mean, I remember driving the Staples when I was in the Lakers bridging with like my ass off my seat because it hurts so bad or couldn't put my knee against the door, the console,

because the nerve was so in flame. But, you know, those were some tough memories. But I haven't had sciatica. LeBron is physically much more capable than I am. I think that he'll bounce back here and he'll be able to have a good and robust season. But even if he didn't have sciatica, like, LeBron doesn't need to play 82 games.

LeBron doesn't need to be flying day one. I don't mind this for the Lakers at all. Yeah, I said that last week. As long as it's not a longer than expected absence, and I know Shams tweeted or reported something like in November, so we're talking about 15 games. This is why you get Luca. I don't really think it affects the bottom line.

I have seen just, I read and saw a lot of people with medical backgrounds or people who talk to people with medical backgrounds, being like sciatica, it could linger for so long. You don't cure it. It could be a disaster. I'm like, I don't sense a lot of anxiety from the Lakers or from, from LeBron's camp that this is going to be, to your point about his physical, just freakishness,

that this is going to really hamper him. I guess you can't know, but I have not sensed that at all from anybody. I don't know if you have. No, I don't think so. And you know the amount of, I mean, look, he can't play forever, but the amount of hours and investment and years and the routine and the discipline he has, I think it puts him instead not only to limit what this is at this stage, but also how he's going to get over it and overcome it. Like, we're not talking about a guy who has a problem being dedicated. So when they ask him, you know, here's a course of rehab that we're going to have to do. Here's the exercise.

You're going to have the time you're going to spend. He's already spending that time doing this stuff anyways. It's just going to have to tweak it to address the sciatica. And I'm sure LeBron will knock this out of the park as well. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA season is coming. And Fandul is the place to let you play your game. They have everything you need to get ready for the season with tons of cool bets like season leaders,

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Motors.com. Concept vehicles not available for sale, features, and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit Scout Motors.com for details. All right. Now to the main event. You're an analyst. You're have to make all kinds of predictions. You're going to have to go out on limbs. People are going to make fun of you when you're wrong. It's going to be a great time. We're going to pick awards for the upcoming season. I've already picked some, but I'll reiterate my picks. Some I have not picked. Let's start with one that may be boring, maybe not boring, rookie of the year. It's just hard not to pick Cooper Flag. I mean, he's just NBA rate. I mean, he should be a

freshman in college, I think, right now. And he's NBA ready. He looks like a man out there. He looks more skilled in this environment than maybe even in college. I just can't see how it's not him. I've been really impressed in limited minutes with Harper. But I just, and others. But I just can't see how anyone, especially if he's going to play what I think is impactful, efficient basketball and a winning team in a tough Western conference. I think it's Cooper Flagg. Yeah, I just don't even know. It's going to be similar with defensive player of the year. If you're not allowed to take Cooper Fleck, who would you take?

I guess I would take Harper almost by default. Edgecombe could put up some numbers. Ace Bailey is going to put up some numbers, but for a terrible team, I don't know to the degree to which he'll get penalized for that. same with Trey Johnson, who I really like. I don't even know who else I'd pick. It's Cooper Flagg, and I would be, it's going to take an injury for that not to be the case. Similarly, defensive player of the year,

Steve Nash's preseason defensive player of the year. I'm going to say, I'm in Thompson. I love it. This is great. I just think his motor, his versatility, athleticism, E-May is going to push that team to defend as he always does. I think he's going to be needed even more this year to defend,

and I think it's going to be highlighted. And so he's also going to mature a touch. He's been around the block a couple times now. He can take another step defensively, I think, with his IQ and his versatility. So that's my pick. I thought I was going to have to reframe the question to be, if you're not allowed to pick Victor Wenbanyama, who are you picking? You're not picking Victor Wenbanyama.

Yeah, you know, obviously he's going to be the best defensive player in the league for many, many years. I want to see, you know, I think at this stage, he's going to probably average four blocks a game. He's going to be so dominant at that end. But I think there's something to a team that's a little ahead at this point. And by the way, the Spurs may surprise us and may take a big leap before our eyes, but a team that's more like fighting for top four in the West, a player that's guarding multiple positions, taking on the toughest assignment every now. I think Victor's going to be the best defender because of his length and its size. But I think Alman's going to be spotlight. defensively. So it's slightly different, right? I think Victor's going to control the pain. He's going to make lots of

blocks shots. And therefore, he might deserve defensive player of the year. But I think Amman Thompson, being that guy that's going to guard one through five at different stages, he's going to have to cover the best player at the end of games. He's going to do all the things that make him so versatile and highlight his athleticism. And maybe he's the last defensive player of the year for the next 10 years, not named Victor Weniamen. I haven't picked this award yet. My pick to the surprise of no one is Victor Wenbanyama. Just the dude just blots out the sun. There's just no airspace.

There's no light. He smothers the whole court. If he gets to 65 games, I just would be, I just, I mean, he's just the best defense player in the league. Now, I did ask myself the same question I was going to ask you. If not him, then who? And my answer was also Amen Thompson. By a hair over Evan Mowgli, Bam, out of Bucley.

Chet Holmgren is an interesting candidate. If he gets to 65 games, Gobert and Draymond are always here. Zubatz was here last year. Dyson Daniels, Dors. There's like a ton of really good defensive players. And you would normally default to a big guy. This is a big guy's award for the most part. I just think Amman Thompson is such a singularly dominant defensive player.

He can protect the rim like a big guy and guard little guys. And he's just everywhere all the time. Did I agree with you just as an all-court menace? I think he's the best non-Wembe bet. I haven't looked at the odds. I don't know if he's the best non-Wemby bet, like actually, but he would be my if not Wembe, then who pick. He and his brother are people, NBA players who are top O-O-O-O-O-1% athletes

talk about their athleticism with awe. Like that's how dominant these guys are as athletes. And they both play the right way. Like they play unselfishly, they play hard. I love watching on my Thompson play. I agree. And I also, look, you said it not me. I was reluctant to say the 65 games if there's want to be playing enough games.

You know, the Spurs traditionally have just been very strategic. So if they're not all of a sudden pushing boundaries and looking like they could be a top four or five team in the West, you know, you could see them just being strategic, just being careful with me, just continuing on this plan. So that was a part of the reason I also had Thompson. But you're right. Thompson is just, I mean, he's got all the tools, like physically out of this world and so. many capacities, you know, lateral movement, physicality, vertical, strength, XLD cells, like all the things that you'd want in an athlete. It's not just like linear or vertical. He's got like literally the complete package physically. I also think he's, he's combative,

he's competitive. He wants to learn. He's coachable. He can be pushed. You know, he may's going to push and he will be pushed. You know, he's not going to, he's not going to challenge he may's pushing. He's going to be like, oh, I can take another step. I'll take another step. I didn't realize this scenario, if I do this, I can be that guy as well. I think that's the type of makeup of both brothers, Thompson. So yeah, I agree with you. I think he's just a special, special talent. And while Wembe and the Spurs are continuing on this road, that would be my only reservation, is that at the end of the year, Wembe played 60 games. Okay. Let's go to the headline. So those are the two I had not picked yet that we just did.

I have already picked my MVP prediction. Who is your predicted most valuable player? Well, my heart My heart's with Shea being my Canadian brethren and just being incredibly proud and admire him so much, but I think it's Joker. You know, like the, I mean, for him not to get it two years

in a row unless something strange happens to him or their team this year, I mean, he's on, would anyone doubt if he averages another triple double? If he's, you know, his shooting stats are off the charts, you know, he's the, passes the ball as well as anyone who's almost ever

played the game. I mean, where do we go from here? He's bigger, he's stronger, he's more skilled, he's more accurate, and he's got the best vision in the league. How do you not win MVP after not winning it last year? So I'd love to see him with a chip on his shoulder this year, too. You know, he's kind of a super competitor, but also kind of a, I just do my thing guy. But I wouldn't mind it if there was a little bit of piss and vinegar in the Joker this year just for all of our entertainment. I mean, the Morris brothers are certainly familiar with that side of Nicolia Yovish. We know it's in there, especially in a playoff scenario.

In the regular season, we'll see. I also pick Joker. It just says a lot that it took a season so dominant from Shea that it inspired a million. Is this the greatest season from a guard since Michael Jordan columns? Just to be neck in neck in most statistics, advanced and otherwise with Nicola Yolkich, what he does every year. And Bill and I had this thing on his pod where, like what if he wins another title, where does that place him historically?

Is he a top 10 all-time player? I guess people don't want to hear this. Statistically, he is going to be one of the three or four greatest statistical players of all time. That's not the whole game because defense is part of the game too and it's not tracked as well statistically. But the numbers this guy puts up every year like, I don't even, they're just gargantuan. And if he's a four-time MVP and he wins another title and he's a two-time MVP, of the finals. He's going to be a top 10 all-time player.

Like, I grew up in the 80s with Bird and Magic. Like, they defined my early basketball fandom. He's on par with those guys if he gets another title. If he doesn't, it becomes an interesting discussion. But he's my pick. Which one you want to do next? We got Coach of the Year, Most Improved Player, and Sixth Man of the Year. Most Improved I'm a Homer.

I'm going to go with the Canadian Mathur. And I just think there's, you know, so many people out there that could take a leap. but there's opportunity there. They're going to need scoring. They're going to need another punch from someone in that lineup. You know, the way they play, picking up full court, being physical, playing with so much speed and action in the half court, let alone the full court. You know, I think there's an opportunity there for him to take a big leap.

I mean, we know he's capable. I think refinement is important for him. The opportunities will be there. So I'm a bit of a homer there. Maybe didn't give some people their due, but I think he's in a nice position. least to be it. He's one of the odds on favorites. I picked a Sarr Thompson, the quote other Thompson twin. Great pick. Amen is actually the odds on favorite. Okay, I actually like that

pick as well. I have no problem with any of those guys. Yeah, I just think Asar is going to have the, where did he come from factor more than Amman? Because he missed like 20, 30 games last season, whatever it was with coming back from the blood clot and the Pistons were under the radar until the playoffs and they're not going to be under the radar anymore. He's going to play a bigger role. I think that's key, the bigger role. I think they're going to have to improve within this year. I mean, Ivy, Duren, but I think Thompson as well is going to have the opportunity, a little bit like Mathrim, but with a different backdrop, to have more of an opportunity to grow and get better. Speaking of Canada, a little sidebar here for you. Are you still

involved in Canada basketball anymore or no? I don't think so, right? No, my old teammate, Rowan Barrett runs the program. I'm just a fan. I was out to dinner in Los Angeles last week with someone, I'll just say, in the international basketball scene. And we were reminiscing about the 2024 Olympics and looking ahead to the 2028 Olympics. This person made a prediction for me. And he's not Canadian, not American.

Because in my head, I'm thinking USA without some of the old guys that are going to graduate probably. France, obviously, rising, but the best young player in the world. Serbia, always around, has Yokic. And Canada has largely sort of disappointed in a lot of the highest leverage international competitions, minus when they came third in the World Cup a couple years ago. This guy just flat out said, Canada is going to be my pick to win the gold medal. And he went through the roster with me, and you got like, EDI is going to be a part of the team. There's a couple other big guys that are coming up. And you got all the guards, like Jamal Murray might still. be a part of it and can't be like that's it's it's not a bad it's it's kind of a cool pick it wouldn't

it wouldn't be that shocking right like we can't like that last olympics was supposed to be the one didn't get out of the quarterfinals fine it happens field is kind of stacked like you're still looking looking up right yeah for sure i mean it's it's honestly Zach it's incredible for me as a guy who came in the league and there was bill winnington who went to high school in new york but it's I believe Roots are in Montreal. And it was Rick Fox who was born in Toronto. I moved to the Bahamas in like 14 days. So that was it for Canada.

Now there's like 24 guys on NBA rosters, the MVP of the league, you know, really, really good players. I think for Canada, frankly, the third in the World Cup was great, was a great result for them. Really, it was the first time in an international tournament together. So, and I can speak from experience in losing in the quarterfinals to France. Sometimes, like, when you get to the quarterfinals, you're playing France on their home floor.

It's a one-off day for a team that was really just too small. Their room for error was really just so tight. I think they got bullied a little bit by Yabaselli on the day and weren't quite themselves, weren't quite sharp. Now that they didn't have the heart, desire, they just didn't play their best basketball, and you're out. And that's international basketball. So, you know, that was their kind of one slip-up.

They won their group. They were three-and-o, I believe. So, you know, one loss in two international tournaments that kind of sent you backwards. I think is completely a part of building scars growing when a group's been together. That, what should I say? Scarcely. But yeah, I mean, I think the interior play is going to be the big indicator of where Canada goes.

You know, who is going to be there to have to guard the Wembe's of the world, the Yolkiches of the world, whoever the U.S. trots out there. I mean, that's going to be the Achilles heel. Because I think on the perimeter, they're going to be fantastic. I think Zach Eadie will be a big help, but I think they're going to need a couple more guys in there as well to be able to bang. Because the Yabaselli's, we had guys. We had guys his height. We didn't have a guy that could contain him or the other power forward his name.

I forget. It wasn't the Wembe. LaSort. It wasn't the Wembees. It was those guys going to the post and beating our guys up. And we didn't shoot the ball well enough. We didn't cause enough turnover on the day to beat him. But I think Canada is a very interesting pick.

Well, that's, I mean, it's also not just one win, one loss in you're out at that stage. It's also you win your group, you do everything right, and you kind of get unlucky that France has a bad group stage and get. drawn to you in the quarter finals as a team that ends up winning silver. Okay. Coach of the year, Steve Nash, Ward, you know something about, you know something about a couple of these awards, actually. Quinn Snyder.

We agree. We're in agreement. So you go make, you make the, I've already made my case. You make yours. Well, obviously, we all know he's a terrific coach. I think he's creative. I think he's, and they have put together a very interesting roster. I think they've put length around tray, versatility.

I think they've I think they've put enough shooting I think Karnarb was a great pickup I think some of these developing wings can shoot it just well enough and hopefully shoot it a little better going forward I think the big

the big one here is going to be is going to be the big fella if he's able to play and stretch the floor and defend and help them be that versatile five that can pull people away from the basket can be a little bit of a partner or an outlet for Trey but also open

the floor up for Trey you know, I'm interested. I also think, you know, with Johnson being a playmaker, Riesashe being able to play a little bit and make plays for others, I think it's interesting to see, like, their second unit, their second unit could be killer. So I think with Quinn, the roster, his creativity, I think he's an obsessive coach,

is going to put a lot, a lot of thought into what's the best way for this team to play. The only thing is that it's a little bit all brand new, you know, adding these new pieces and how quickly can they get to a place where they take that next step. And then the other part is just Trey, Trey being a leader, Trey really caring about the health of the whole group, him really taking that role of,

you know, wanting to see everyone thrive and succeed and make everyone better because, I mean, there's no question his skills are outstanding. I've talked a lot about the Hawks. I've been hurt by the Hawks before. I might be too high on the Hawks.

It's possible. I just really like their team. I have them penciled in fourth in the east, regular season standings. Behind in some work, well, behind Cleveland and New York in somewhere, I don't know, and then Orlando. I think Orlando will win more regular season games than the Hawks. The Hawks might have a higher ceiling even in the playoffs than Orlando just because of the potential explosiveness they have on offense. Two reasons for me to be a little trepidious other than my past, my soul being scarred. by past Hawks disappointments.

Porzingis is not a bonus for them. He's essential for them because you mentioned the shooting issues of the Dyson, Riesis-Shae, Jalen Johnson, Trio, who are all going to have to play a ton of minutes, including together. Various combinations of two or three of those guys don't work without Porzengis playing heavy minutes or playing heavy games and decent minutes. And then the depth beyond the eighth guy, like I love Alexander, I love a Kongwu.

Karnard's fine. Like the depth, I like Krati even. But like once you get down to like the break in case of an emergency group, I get a little nervous. And that makes me, what does one injury do for this team? But I think if they are semi, if they're healthy in the playoffs, I think they have a high enough ceiling to scare one of the favorites in the East. And one of those two teams takes an injury or just doesn't play very well. I think this team could be really good.

So Quinn's my pick too. I agree. I, you know, the depth thing, I don't think the depth's the problem in the playoffs necessarily for them. You know, those eight, eight and a half, nine guys that can play? It's getting through the regular season. Like, can they, if one of their top eight guys gets hurt, what does it look like adding another guy or two or their rotation? And can they manage that? You know, it seems like injuries are inevitable nowadays.

It's just you don't want the bad ones. You want the two and three week ones, not the two or three month ones. And if they have the two or three month type, you know, that can be problematic, I think. And then, like we both said, the shooting, you know, how, How much do we trust the shooting? How many more plays and shots can those guys make to kind of make space for Trey and Trey makes space for them? And you're right.

Porzingis is a linchman for all that stuff because he just gives you that spacing and versatility. I agree on the playoffs. Obviously, rotation shortened, right? If you pencil in Karnard is the eighth guy, which maybe someone surpasses him. Maybe Mo Gay finally lives up to the potential that the hog seemed to see in him. I like Krati. Ais and Newell is an interesting rookie.

I don't know how ready he's going to be. We'll see. The thing about Kinnard is he always seems to fall out of the rotation, wherever he is. And he's penciled in as not the 10th guy in my Hawks rotation. He's the 8th guy. He cannot fall out of the rotation. But everywhere he goes, he becomes a fringe rotation player. And that can't happen again with the way he shoots.

Okay. Sixth man of the year. Assuming Nix go double big, I kind of want to give Josh Hart some love. I don't want to give Josh Hart some love. I just love the battle in him, the present. And I feel like the Knicks have a chance to contend for the top spot in the east, a very good chance. And if they are, and he's in the media capital of the world, and he's bringing that energy, combativeness, transition basketball, offensive rebounds, you know, physicality. I kind of like him there.

I'm going to go Josh Hart. It's a great pick was one of my favorites. Nikaius Duncan picked him last week, and I did this segment. I picked on Yeka, Kongwood, just to triple down on my hawks. my cacalling for the hawks um i won't make the case again but i think josh art's a great pick that brings us speaking of a collo geez do you see them we're in this big uh big trend of double bigs do you see him and poor zingas playing a bunch together i think they will i think for absolutely that that one is the one that's more locked in to me than like valentunus at yokech which is a

preseason thing we might see that for snippets i don't know that it's going to be a permanent thing the rocket's one where they just beat the shit out of you with shangoo and adams and one and maybe Capella comes in there is a permanent. What are some other ones that we're going to see? Well, do you consider the Thunder double big lineup? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, Chad is interesting because you can almost think of him as a perimeter, but you block so many shots.

I'd love to see that. Dallas. That double big lineup is great. Dallas. Gosh, I'm trying to think. I thought of a few others the other day. They're not rolling off the tongue, but I think there's more than we think. Cleveland, obviously, Mobley Allen, is another high profile.

When the Sixers are talking about playing. Embed and Edembona together. I mean, okay, we'll see. And the Dallas... Please. Please. Please play. Okay. I admire the...

You brought it up. You said they're going to go down. I did. Look, it looks like he's on track to play maybe in the season opener, according in Ignorce, which is better than I ever would have expected. And so I hope that keeps up. The Dallas one is just... You mentioned Cooper Flagg being productive on a winning team.

I actually went under on Dallas at 40. and a half. Not dramatically so. I think they're an injury risk. They're a, if the season goes sideways, do we want to lean into our pick risk? But more than anything else, like, AD is really a four?

Like, that's really what I just don't, I mean, you coached. I think ADD is a five for me. That's just the way it is. If you're going to play ADM, one of those bigs, 80's got to shoot some threes. I don't know. how comfortable you are that.

If he's out there, why would you want him either being a hub or being the roller, being a, you know, a guy that can be the center point? So they're a big lineup. They're big in general. Their big lineup I'm not, like not as crazy about, to be honest with you, because it gets AD out of the five position where I think he's fantastic both ways. Look, it has benefits. Obviously, they're going to be huge defensively.

They're going to own the glass potentially. They get to sort of save him somewhere and tear, which they, I mean, his, his, his, his missed games is one of the biggest reasons I took the under on them. Again, don't feel strong. I kind of like the team. It's just, if that's a number, that's a number.

I just feel like we're going to see a lot, like flag and AD. Oh, they're going to run two-man game together. It's going to be interesting. I'm like, people are just going to switch that. It's going to be like a power forward and a power forward.

It's going to be switched. I just feel like there's going to be more possessions than people think. Where AD is standing 19 feet from the rim just sort of not doing much. And I just, I don't love it. And the perfect antidote for some of these slightly clunky big lineups for them is Kyrie Rew. You know, someone that can slither in any crack, can shoot, create shots, wherever he wants, that can ask the defense questions of their spacing, even with all these guys that maybe

you're not sure you have to stay home on. So until he comes back, you know, I think that will be difficult to kind of like refine those lineups to really like get them to feel smooth and understand what, how does this make sense. So, you know, I like the roster. I like their team. I think Jason does a great job. I just think some of those lines will be trickier.

are in reality than they are on paper. Another reason I took under 40 and a half, which is one of my more controversial picks between Bill and me and House. I was the only under. You want me to give you some other only ones that I was, like where I stood out? Lakers over 47 and a half.

I was the only one over. I mean, look, I think they got better. I mean, I love to see what Mark is smart and La Ravia bring to the team. But Aiton, I mean, he's got to have a better year. you know, we know he can put up numbers, but is he really going to roll? Like that's my big question there. Is he really going to roll to the basket?

Because it doesn't really help the Lakers or Luca help the Lakers if he wants to pop or if he wants to slow down, you know, in the short role and become a playmaker. Like they really need him to want to be a little more dynamic, get in and out, get above the rim, be a vertical threat, just to draw the defense to ask questions so that Luca can do what he does and make the rest of that team better because they're going to have problems defensively. I think that's, you know, they just don't have like elite defenders at this stage. They have positional size.

But for them, it's going to be so important for him to make sure that offense hums, make sure he's diving, letting Luca be at his best. Otherwise, you know, that delta between offense and defense will become really problematic. I think he's going to roll. My concern is what you just said is what happens after he gets the ball? Because is he going to finish? because if you don't roll hard, if you're not willing to be dynamic

and you're not a threat at the rim, now people can play in between, they can stun and get back. Now he's the playmaker. You want Luca to be the playmaker. If he's rolling and he's the high threat on the rim, now Luca's the playmaker, he's the decision maker.

So I think that to me is the difference. I think that's what you're saying, but for me to jump in rolling. And say it's like, it's not rolling, it's rolling hard to be a vertical thread at the rim and make the corner come in, make the low man be a small, get them in rotations. If he's in the middle, they can stun, they can get back,

and they'll be quite happy for him to be the playmaker and the ball's out of Lucas's hand. And Lucas standing next to him at 17 feet going, I can't really get it back here. It's the way we doing. It's going to annoy everybody. But even when he rolls hard, the issue with him sometimes is his instinct

is almost to spin away from the basket when he's at the basket. It's like, Big fella, just go up, you're right there. It's why he never gets to the foul line. It's something about him. It's like the half court line has some gravitational pull on him. I was the only over on Orlando 50 and a half.

It's a big number. I went over on that. I like Orlando a lot. The big question for me there, obviously we've talked about shooting with them for a while now. I think they have some shooting. I think some of those guys

will shoot better. Obviously, Bain makes a difference. How are Bain, how are the big three for them going to play in actions together? I worry a little bit that it gets your turn, my turn. I worry that if you put Franz

and Paulo in actions, they're going to take the two best defenders, they're going to switch a lot of it. I worry it's going to get stagnant. I think I'd like to play a little faster. I think they're on the slowest teams, if not the slowest team in the league last year. If they're going to play faster,

that's one antidote, but if they're going to also get those three in actions where they can all be a threat to bring the third best defender, similar to the Lakers, when Austin Reeves gets in the action, now you've got the third best defender on the floor, having to account for LeBron and Luca as well.

That, I think, is a similar position. They need to really exploit and find ways for those three to make music together, or else I think they'll find some issues offensively. All right, let's do it. NBA finals and championship predictions. I haven't done this yet. Do you want me to go first or do you want to go first?

I'll go first. I'm going to still give OKC the edge in the West. I know they went to seven games with a limited depth and injured, Aaron Gordon for one Nuggets team that I love what the Nuggets have done I'm just going to default to the Thunder

because they're the winners they're the champs they all conceivably should get better they should have a year more experience they should have a year more of you know road scars and all those experience

they didn't play great the entire playoffs they had bad games in every round almost I think those game Jalen Williams was injured which we didn't realize

the severity still had one of historic game in the finals. I think that they should be better this year. Denver should also be better. And they have probably the best player in the world. So I can see Denver winning. I'm going to give the edge right now to OKC.

They're younger. They've played together now. They should all continue to improve. Would I be surprised if Denver wins? No, but the edge is going to OKC. The East, I'm having a hard time. I'm having a really hard time. I worry a little bit about the Knicks clunkiness.

as far as the Mitchell Robinson. What's the second unit? Is the first unit going to hum with Mitchell Robinson out there? If he's not on the floor, I really like Yavaseli, but he's going to have to be a monster next to Kat in some of these lineups because defensively that's going to be difficult for the Knicks. So I think the Knicks have a nice bench. They've got some guys who can play coming in this year and adding to the team.

What are their lineups going to look like? How are they going to try out teams out there that can either defend enough or score enough? So I'm giving you the around the neighborhood answer here, but Cleveland, similar in a different way. Well, coach, love the way they play, love their pieces. How do they fit? Am I overreacting a little bit with the injuries last year? Or are there going to be real difficulties kind of with the pieces in their fit? You know, is the back court right?

Is the front court right? You know, how does the depth play? How well do they shoot the ball down the stretch and meaningful moments? So, you know, I like them, but I think there's a lot for them to prove this year as far as how that roster fits together. You know, then there's some of these teams that are, you know, for me, could be surprises. Like you said, Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit, Milwaukee. You've still got Janus and shooting. I don't know how I feel about their depths.

But who knows? Maybe Turner and Yonis and shooting is a killer lineup this year. So in the East, I'm having a hard time. I'm going to give the Knicks the nod. I'm going to give the Knicks the nod, even though I feel like I have the most questions with them. I'm just a big Jalen Brunson supporter. I'd love to see what Mike Brown does

with a little bit more of an egalitarian offense or equal opportunity offense that maybe takes a little pressure off him, allows him to probably get the same numbers, but with less wear and tear, highlights a few more of those players that maybe elevate, maybe OG, obviously bridges, is cat can be a hub at times can they just be terrific offensively by opening it up a little bit but defensively that that is a concern so i'm going to give them the nod but i honestly have

a really hard time picking the east okay my official pick for the NBA finals and the NBA championship in 2025 2026 i am picking the Oklahoma City thunder to beat the new york nix in the NBA finals so We have the same finals. I didn't pick a winner, but I hope it goes without saying I think OKC's in the West is going to win the NBA title this year. Well, how about this? If all things healthy and equal, which is never the case, is OKC Denver the actual NBA finals to you, if that's the West finals? 1,000%. I mean, 1,000%.

You know, two most best players, two most impactful players. you know the depth that Denver added makes them I think 1A 1B favorite in the league and okay see I give them the nod just because they they've done it and they will only get better this year if they're injury free right can I make the case for the Knicks please do it's it's the best it's everyone in the east has some imperfections that make me nervous for the Knicks it's the degree to which they're relying on Mitchell Robinson to be healthy and the way that teams can pick at the Brunson cat pairing on defense. With Cleveland, it's, they haven't really had a clean and convincing playoff run yet. They've had their own injury issues that are still ongoing with Garland and Nelstruse. And I sneakily, I'm not sure what I'm getting out of their bench in the playoffs. Lonzo will see Sam Merrill, Dean Wade, maybe Jail and Tyson can emerge. It's not as rock solid as it appeared to be last year.

And I just don't I don't look at Cleveland or Orlando or Atlanta as complete enough or specifically able to threaten the Brunson Towns pairing on defense enough for me to not pick the Knicks for that reason. I think the Knicks can scheme around it against all of these teams just enough to get by. And I just really like their team. I like their starting five. I like their bench. I think they did a nice job filling out the bench. And there's just something about this group that having failed come up short last year, a year of cat under their belt, a year of cohesion, a year of like, you know, ups and downs together

where it was sometimes tense. There's a coaching change. How's the locker room? This and that. They never were afraid of the biggest moments. They never were afraid of the biggest stages. There's just something about their moxie that I kind of like. and I trust the most.

All of that said, someone beyond, my top six in the East would be this order. If I had to predict a regular season, these are the six teams who make the playoffs without the plan. One Cleveland, two, New York, three Orlando, four Atlanta, five Detroit, six Milwaukee. Someone in that group, probably one of Orlando and Atlanta, is going to challenge the Knicks and the Cavs in the playoffs. and emerges like an actual like, oh my God, are these guys going to make the finals? Oklahoma City, Denver took them to seven last year with Michael Porter Jr. having one arm

and Aaron Gordon having one leg by the end. That's discouraging for if you're picking the thunder to break the no repeat streak. But I'm with you. I mean, there's got to be something to be said for the pressure of being there for the first time and trying to win a title for the first time being over. That combined with Chet being hopefully healthier than it was last year,

another year under his belt, another year for everybody. I think the half-court offense looks a little less nervous and a little less clunky in the biggest moments. And that to me was the reason you said they had sort of laid some eggs here there in the playoffs. Didn't look super dominant all the time. That's what it came.

down to. I think they'll look better that way. And I just, I like the way the home grin heartenstein pairing matches up against Denver. There's no answer for Yokic, but I like, I like the answers they have available. And they're just so young and so healthy. And they strike me, I said this on Bill Spod. I mean, you've, you've been on a bunch of great teams. You can maybe speak to this. This idea that they're like a championship team will coast the next year or just sort of, they strike me as the opposite. Like, they strike me as like, we are out. Oh, we have the target on our back, good. We want to kick your ass every single game.

They're over under 62 and a half. I took the over without even blinking. I think it's more likely they win 70 games than go under 62 and a half. I think they're going to have an absolutely dominant season. I mean, relatively eageless. Love playing together. Name a player on their team you don't think has a chance to get better still. You know, they went through some of those.

Rough nights still managed to get through tough series, tough moments. They have the scars now. They have the, you know, there's always that collective experiences. That's a big part of this. You know, I think Joker, Joker can make up for a lot of that in Denver's case. You got some new guys in their team. Bruce Brown, granted, already was there with them. New guys, you want to look around the room in the playoffs and be able to say,

or on the floor in a tough moment and say, I know he's going to show up the next five minutes. I know we've been here before. When it's your first time, that is something. accounts and is difficult to overcome. They've now got that. They've done that. They're improving. They're an otherworldly defensive team. That is an anecdote to Joker in a certain way because they can do it in different ways. They can defend you at all four corners.

Not necessarily have to be like, oh my God, you know, this hub is going to destroy us. Well, we can also pick you up full core. We can make it more difficult for you. How about we could put Caruso on Yokic for eight minutes and somehow get away with it? Right. You know, just incredible mobility and speed defensively. And then you've got the double big. That just gives them some size. So there, it's hard not to, you know, to think they're going to improve.

And I think I think the under there would be only because of injury. You know, I know like Shay missed time, J-Dub missed time last year, Chet missed time last year. They still want a million games. So I just, I think you're right there. You know, there is something the world would have to turn upside down for them not to be a mid-60s to high-60s team this year. And I just think they've got the playoff scars now

and a championship under their belt. If J. Dub were starting this season healthy, and I don't think he's going to miss a lot of time as he recovers from this risk surgery, I would say they're going to win 70 games. Maybe I'll just say it anyway for fun. Like, I think they're, like, how many games are they not going to be favored in the season?

Yeah. At Denver, that's two games or one. I care, no, two games. At Cleveland, are they favored in every other game? Back to backs at New York or something? Like a back to back against a top eight team? I don't know. I mean, I think they're favored in some of those.

You know, I mean, and then there's the other part of it. There's the press-the cultural part of it where like, yeah, they're not doing media. You know what I mean? like we they are in the lab they are working they're quiet they you know they're not out there doing the extracurriculars that's a pretty focused machine that's moving down the track daily so you know i like the typical concern of who gets complacent or who takes her foot off the gas isn't a concern i have for that group um extremely well coached have a great style of play like it's pretty cemented and you know that's the kiss of death and often often but i've never

have been more certain than a team's a mid-60 win team or at least going to match what they did last year unless there's catastrophic injuries. Yeah, I said the same thing last year going into the season. Any other outcome in the regular season than them being the number one seed in the West would be shocking to a level we have not seen since,

I mean, even the Durant Warriors, you were a consultant. We're not the number one seed every year that they were together in their own conference. But this team just feels like they're going to be 10 games better than everyone else in the regular season. Now the playoffs, you faced a big fellow in Denver and the playoffs with a real team. It ain't going to be a five-game walkover.

Like Denver could absolutely win that series and win the championship, but I'm picking the thunder. Is there anything we did not get to that you wanted to get to? I pitched you a bunch of theoretical fun questions that we may not have time to get to, but if you wanted to take one of them, you could. I don't know. Is there anything we didn't get to? No, is there anything else? Do you want to hit?

No, we got a whole season. to listen to you talk about the NBA. Are you excited? I am excited. You know, at first it's a little apprehensive. Like, you know, can I be any good at this? You know, do I, you know, putting yourself out there every week and all those things that come along with it? Honestly, the crew at Prime is unbelievable. All the people that work there are so easy to work with, fun to work with, organized, have a development mindset, at looking forward to building this kind of startup, so to speak, like they did Thursday Night Football. And then you add to it how much fun it is to sit with Taylor and Dirk and Blake, U.D., you know, Rudy Gay and John Wall there.

I'm going to do some games. I get to do my first two games in the new year with Ian Eagle and Stan Van Gundy, be the third. You know, I'll just be sitting there chuckling to myself the whole time, pinch myself, two of the greats. And so for me, like to challenge myself, push myself, be around the game, talk hoops with people, have some fun, have a few laughs, but also just be able to watch this beautiful game, this sport and this league that's, I think, as good as it's ever been,

it's super exciting for me. Who's going to be your favorite team to watch? If you did a league past rankings, like I do league past rankings, who'd be at the top? Great question. I mean, it's hard not to say anyone other than, I mean, like my brain automatically goes to Shay and Joe.

Like right away, I want to see like Shay's ability to just footwork, contact, accuracy, variety of shot. You know, it's ridiculous. It's deceleration length. And then Joker is just like, I mean, what are we watching? I mean, this guy's like, it's, I don't know, like, what are, I mean, we're watching like Larry Bird and an all-time great center in one body. I mean, he's, he's unbelievable. And then, you know, you go around the read.

I'm super excited to see what Orlando looks like, what Atlanta looks like, you know. Houston, you know, they're trying a new reboot to see if they can get over the hump. Always love watching Stefan Curry and the Warriors. So I could give you 100 teams. I don't necessarily have a number one, but it's going to be super fond. See, you know, Luca does this year with the first full season with the Lakers, that partnership with Aiton, you know, LeBron being such a fascinating player to embrace and accept kind of a heliolio, centric player alongside him. A lot of the clippers, you know, aging guys that are all incredible,

seeing what they have left and what they can do together if they're healthy. So I didn't even mention Ann. So I mean, it's a, you didn't mention Wembenyama either. He didn't mention Wembe. I mean, Wembe is like, I mean, what are we watching? It's, it's fascinating. I was watching, they played Utah in the preseason start the game with Point Wembe. And it's just like, this isn't seven, whatever. I don't even know. Is he like eight feet tall yet. He's going to be eight any minute now. There was a headline today in the athletic. It was like even his coach doesn't know how tall he is.

And my first response was that feels like a measurable thing that you could find out. And my second response was, is he just going to keep, is he going to be eight feet tall? Is he going to be the first eight foot NBA player? Because I'm all in for that. I think the answer to how tall he is is tall enough. And like we don't, it's not necessary to measure. But I mean, it's amazing. coming up. I don't think he's quite there yet as a

a ball handler, but they're setting screens for him, pick and roll. He's drawing the defense. I think he's got to gain strength over the next two, three years where he can kind of win some of these spin-move battles where he's spinning because he's not going to beat everyone off the dribble, but if he can have them overreact, spin and then win that battle, I mean,

he's going to be on top of the rim on some of those plays, which adds a whole other dimension. Right now, he kind of just draws the crowd and is able to throw over everyone as a playmaker. But defensively, I mean, you can play anyone alongside him. you know, and I think offensively, who knows, is it going to be six months, 18 months, where he's winning more of those kind of like physical battles,

getting to use his leverage, his angles, his momentum to then when he spins turns or gets to a spot, he's looking down on the rim, or he's going to get to that spot a little bit like Porzingis, where he catches the ball somewhere and he just kind of dares you to leave your feet. And if you don't, he just rises up and shoots over you. So there's so much in play for him offensively and obviously defensively as well, but defensively we already see it. He's going to dominate. He's going to lead the league in blocks.

He's going to block more shots in some teams potentially. So super fun. And I didn't even mention him, Zach. The quadruple double is coming. I have my own league pass rankings, like fake formula that I use. I actually have it done. And without spoiling it, you meant the Warriors and the Lakers both rank much higher than I would have expected them to. And I think what you think about it justifiably saw me, the Warriors still have one of the greatest shows in sports.

There is nothing in sports, nothing in sports, not just basketball, like a Steph Curry heater. Steph Curry heater, but also the style of play. Like they play different than everyone else with the pinch post, mid post, stuff flying all over the plays, pick the picker, and it's random. You know, it's more principled than it is calling set plays all the time. So it's beautiful that if someone else playing a slightly different style of basketball in the NBA, they've been doing it for a long time. And when Curry's the Folkorm and Dremon's a genius at kind of running that show with

the ball. Man, let's hope that thing rolls on for a few more years. We get a full year of Jimmy there and Draymond always brings the potential for drama on the court, fights, whatever of some kind.

And the Lakers, they always come toward the top of my rankings because they're the Lakers. They have a beautiful court. The whole experience is awesome and now they have LeBron. And I'm always like, oh, that's too high.

I'm like, not that excited to watch the Lakers. This is the first year where I actually really am excited for a full season of Luca LeBron Reeves. How does this work? How does JGM8? I think they now are very deserving of the number of TV slots they're going to get.

I think this is the most excited event to watch the Lakers as a sort of basketball puzzle in a long time. All right, Steve Nash, Amazon Prime, mind the game. What else? Anything else? Steve Nash Foundation. Soccer tournament coming back to New York this spring? Yeah, soccer tournament came back last year. It'll be back again in June.

World Cup coming up. That's what else. I'm excited with that too. That's we're getting ready, baby. Okay, bronte. There you go. Steve Nash. Thank you, sir.

This episode is brought to you by Service Now. Look, I have my dream job. I get to watch basketball, think about basketball, talk about basketball, but even dream jobs have the stuff that nobody dreamed about, the busy work that gets in the way of the actual work. Service Now's AI specialist tackle that work,

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edit, and experiment fast, because the asks aren't getting smaller. And the timelines? Ooh, yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your as to life. Learn more at Adobe.com slash firefly. All right, time to welcome a special guest. This one is fun for me, special for me. Aaron Neesmith, I remember I met you the first time in Miami when you were playing for the Celtics and your agent, we'll just call him Mike. I don't know if he wants to get his full name shouted out. Call him Mike. He said, hey, come over here, Zach, meet Aaron. This is the guy. And then he said, this is the guy, Aaron. They keep saying the Celtics need to be playing you.

And I said, yeah, I'm the original resident of Aaron Neesmith Island. Now it's popular. condo values are skyrocketing. Aaron Neesmith, how are you, man? I'm doing good. Yeah, Nisement Island's got a lot more visitors than I used to. Yeah, you've got to kick people out. We've got to have it. It's like one of those cities where they got to set limits on the amount of cruise ships that allow the

dock every day. That's a fact. You are just finishing up with practice with the Indiana Pacers. How hard was Rick on you today? Was it a lot of running today? What kind of training camp guy is Rick Carlisle? We play a lot and we run a lot.

So, you know, I think guys who have been here a lot. We all, we all realize, like, all training camp is really going to be is making sure we're in shape and running a lot. Like, we do the beep test every year. So we definitely, we're on the line a bit today and a lot of sprinting. Explain the beep test for people who may not know what it is. Yeah, beep test is like, so you're going to run from the baseline to the opposite three point line and you're going to hear a beep. And when you hear a beep, you run and you got to touch the other line before it beeps again. And then when it beeps again, you should already be on your way back. And it gets faster every time. And it's a lot.

pretty much run to fail. Is it a last man standing kind of thing? Like does somebody win? Yeah, we have a winner every year. Yeah. There were a couple, there were a couple votes on me to win this year, but, you know, I didn't get it done. Who won? T.J. and Quinn Jackson, they tied. They were running for so long.

Rick just called it. Wow. Of course T.J. McConnell. Yeah, what else would you expect? All right. So this, at the risk of being evicted from New Smith Island, you guys are a tough team to pin down this year, expectations-wide. Tyrese is going to miss the whole season.

Miles Turner's gone. You got new centers that are jostling for minutes. We had our over-under's pod with Bill Simmons and Joe House the other day. I went under on the Pacers, 36 and a half wins. I'm a little pessimistic. Tell me why I'm wrong. And how are you guys feeling about expectations internally? Are you hearing this kind of doubt that people have and are you using it as fuel?

Yeah, we hear the doubt. I mean, we hear the doubt all the time. But, you know, I've said it a couple times. like we've lived in this space for like the last four years, the space of being constantly doubted, the space of people not believe in us and thinking that, you know, there's a little bit of overhype, I guess you would say,

or just non-belief. And from our starting five, yeah, we're missing our guy and Tyrese, but the way that we play, we've always played a five-man, we've always played a five-man team, we've always played together, we've always run the floor, we've always played hard, we've always competed. And I don't think, like, just because we've lost Tyrese, recent miles. That doesn't change our mindset

and our approach. And you know, just how our outlook when the game is. Like you could see, you could look at the postseason last year and see just how hard we fought. We still have a huge bunch of those guys coming back. So I think our nature and the culture that we've built for the Indiana Pacers hasn't gone anywhere.

Do you have friends in the league who have approached you and said, man, I just, I would love to play on your team because of the way. Like, there's no, I'm not going to name names, but there's no, like, we're going to stand and watch this guy dribble for 15 seconds of the shot clock and stand around

there's like everyone's moving and it's hard but have you had friends in the league be like man it looks so much fun yeah I've had plenty of people come up to me like the way you guys play it's just so fun and you know I've had people come up to be and just say like man I was really rooting for you guys last year and I've also had people come up and like when we're playing and we're at the frito line

and someone's shooting they're like man can you got to slow down I'm tired you guys are running too much bro all right let's go through some of the playoff run because it was obviously just banana's crazy all the way up until the very sad ending, which we will talk about. Game one against the Knicks, I think will be the craziest game I ever attend, no matter how long I cover the NBA.

That's the huge comeback. And everyone's going to remember the Tyree's shot. We'll talk about it, the one that bounces up. And do you think it's a three? He does the choke sign. Everyone is going to remember that Aaron Neesmith went on a heater. I don't think people are going to adequately remember how it's a game. absolutely insane that stretch of three-point shooting was like it's it might be the greatest

short-term like short minutes heater any player has ever gotten on five three's and like i don't know two three minutes whatever was one crazy after the next the nicks are botching switches getting caught on screens and every time they do it you're lighting it up at at what point in that like did you just lose consciousness like by the time the fourth one goes up are you like i don't even know what's going on here but this is going in like what is that like what is that like You know, I say like that's what you put the work in for. So like all the days and the extra hours and the late nights that you work and you grind and you get the repetition and the shots up, those are the moments that it shows when you're just out there playing free and just not thinking.

And, you know, anytime once after like the second or the third three, all I wanted was the ball. Because I knew if I got the ball, it was going up and it was going in. It didn't matter where I was. It didn't matter how far away from the basket I was. I just knew if I threw it at the basket, it was going in. Someone on your bench, on the coaching staff told me about, I said, do you have any good Aaron Nisw's stories or funny stories? Or about game one specifically.

And he said, this is what his memory. And I wonder if you remember this. There's a timeout with seven and a half minutes left thereabouts. You guys are down 108, 92. Nix are going. O.G. Ananobe has just scored a basket. Crowds roaring. You guys are walking to the bench.

And there are fans behind your bench talking all sorts of junk to you. as you're coming back. And this coach remembers Obi Toppin talking to one of the fans to say, we're going to, with some bad words

sprinkling like, we're going to walk your asses down. Watch us walk your asses down. I know what you all cheering about. We're going to win this game. And then you start going crazy and he's going to the same fan. See, I told you.

I told you, do you remember that fan interaction? I do. There was one fan behind our bench like to turn more toward the head coach's side. He was chirping all game. All game. And we start hitting those threes

and he got real quiet. he got real quiet real quick and it was uh you know doing that madison square garden where everybody just talked so much they're so rude it was just it's the greatest feeling in the world to send that that crowd home sad like that they said i had a bunch of my boys at the game and they said like after game one finish it looked like a funeral just gotten out i believe it uh by the way your agent aforementioned mike admitted to me he was getting ready to leave the game uh she three i don't know if he's told you that he was like i'm Did I beat the crowd out of here?

And then after the second one, he was like, maybe I got to stay for this. Yeah, yeah. All right, the Halliburton shot. I mean, I've watched it a billion times. I rewatch it again. I was like, I got to see where Aaron is on this shot. I had the best view in the house. Well, first, you're like next to him at the top of the arc and you cut to the basket

and you're open as he's dribbling backwards. Did you think you were going to get the ball? 100%. Even like, even when we were running down the court, you know, I thought Todd was going to do is, you know, get citizen. defender up and maybe flip it back to me for three. But, you know, Tyrese is such a gamer. He was

going to take the shot regardless. So when he started to drive and I back door to the rim, because we were only down two, and he didn't pass me the ball, that's when I was like, oh, he's just going to, he's going to shoot it. And so he stepped back, he rose up. And when he hit the back of the rim, I remember I was standing

right under the basket and I looked up and you can hear the entire crowd roar. And everybody was like, ah, and I'm looking at the ball. underneath the basket i was like oh that's coming back in and when it dropped straight back down the whole crowd deflated and we just it was ridiculous so i was going to ask you about that i mean you are literally under the basket as the thing is going straight up and i was going to i was going to ask you two things number one did you have a good enough and like calm enough field

of vision that you could tell this has a shot to go in and i think it sounds like yes and number two can you close your eyes and like see that in your mind's eyes still today like the ball coming down? Yeah, I still remember that vividly. And it was in slow motion, man. Like, as soon as it hit the back of the room and it bounced straight up in real time, I was like, I couldn't even really hear the crowd, but I was like, oh my God, that's going back in. There's no way. And as soon as it dropped through the net, it was, yeah, just chaos, man. I'll never forget that. Never. Okay. The previous round, game two in Cleveland is the put-back free throw, just one of the most improbable plays in another

improbable comeback. You guys were down seven at the time, 119, 112 with less than a minute ago. Somehow, of course, you won the game. And I watched that again, and I noticed a couple of things I kind of forgotten about. Number one, Donovan Mitchell's next to you as the free throw is going up. And he's talking, but

I don't know if he's talking to his bench or you're talking to him. Did you guys exchange any words as Pascal was shooting that free throw? We probably did. I'm not going to lie. A lot of times I do talk at the free throw line. You know, some of it you can say a strategy to calm the person down or kind of get them off their game a little bit. But as soon as he like, as soon as Pascal shot the free throw,

I just took off because I knew the situation. And Pascal had missed the first free throw. And, you know, I was just like, just in case there's a chance it comes off, we need the ball. So I just took off and made a play. Yeah. And next to you, you're on the left wing and on the right wing is Andrew Nemhart. And he crashes too from the same spot.

And Ty Jerome kind of boxes him out. Donovanich really boxed you out. Did you give him any shit about that then or since? Were you surprised he didn't put a body on you? No, it's funny, though. It's so funny. Like, for the rest of the playoffs, I'm talking every game, every free throw.

The person next to me would hit me so hard. When I was standing on the wing, they would turn around and just fully chucked me to make sure I couldn't get back in there. Okay, now we have to talk about the bad stuff. What is your memory of halftime of game seven in Oklahoma? City. Yeah, so I walked into the locker room, you know, and shout out to Ty.

Because I was able, Ty had such a good attitude when we walked in a half time. You know, he was up. He was positive. He was cheering us on. He was saying, we got it. We can get it done. He was trying to help out any way he could. And I remember we just kind of, we rallied together and we just like, we can do this.

We can get it done. We can get it done for Tyrese. We were up by one or two points. And, you know, we just had. we had a positive outlook on it. We knew it was going to be hard, and we knew that OKC is a really good third quarter team, and when they get a run,

they always get one run a game, and usually when they get their run at home, they keep it. So we were just talking about, let them get their run, let them let them get their run, and, you know, they were able to get it, and they kept it.

What's the huddle, like, after Tyrese goes down? Who talks? Because just as a viewer, like, I was in shock. You guys have to win a basketball game at which the NBA title is at stake. Like, how did everyone handle that?

I think everybody kind of like, you know, everybody kind of stepped up a little bit. You know, Pascal spoke more. I spoke more. You know, I'm more of like a leader by example and leader in my work ethic and how I play and, you know, just watch me and follow me kind of deal. And I was more so in like the, you know, guys, like let's go. Let's use this as motivation, like fuel. Just yelling at guys, trying to get them fired up and just try and get as much passion

as I can out of anybody and turn a negative into a positive. Have you talked to Tyrese about the game since then? I mean, who are you closest with on the, like in the heads of fans, you guys are always sort of reminiscing about these big moments in your career, but probably you're not and you've moved on. But like, do you remember over this, maybe in July and August, like conversations with teammates where you sort of digest like the enormity of what happened?

We had a team dinner. We do like a team dinner before the start of every season with just players and coaching staff. And we talked about it then of just like being appreciative of the journey, how far we went, how tough it was, what we learned. And, you know, kind of having to turn the page, even though we didn't get the ultimate job done. We still were able to, you know, take a franchise that hasn't been to the finals in 25 years. We're still able to, you know, I'm still able to look into the practice facility and see that Eastern Conference. champion banner raise and be like hey we were a part of that we did that we accomplished that um and

you know now we know just how hard it is to get there we know what it takes and we know when we're going to get back there that we're not going to lose that again so a lot of times those team dinners teams book a room at a restaurant and all that like who who speaks was there someone from the players obviously rick is probably going to speak but is there a player who speaks uh yeah we had a couple guys speak. I spoke, Pascal spoke, Andrew spoke, OB spoke, and TJ spoke. Oh, wow. That's a lot. That's a lot of guys. Similar, similar message. Like, did anyone say something like offbeat that you'll always remember? No, similar message, just like how fun the year was, you know, how appreciative of the journey

was. And, you know, just like we just kind of also, like you just talked about earlier, just stamping the belief that even though ties down and miles is gone, like, we can still accomplish much more than everybody's writing us off for. Like, I think, There is ultimate confidence in our room, in our locker room and in our staff that we're top four team in the East easily. So I think that still, like, that's our goal. That's our mindset. And that's how we're going to approach the season.

Obviously, like this playoff run probably changed your life in a lot of different ways. It certainly rose your profile. I know you and some of your friends in the league, including a couple Vanderbilt guys, Darius Garland, among them, have started some kind of app where you kind of control your content or the monetization of your content. it explained to be what that is and why you were doing it? Yeah, so I started this app. It's called OffCourt. We started two years ago. It's been in the works for a long time. And finally, we're getting ready to drop it on October 17th, and I'm super excited.

But we just thought, like, you know, basketball players have always been such a big driver of culture, whether it be in social media and just, you know, kids' lives. Like, I feel like more kids want to be basketball players and anything else and just dress like us and have. like us and, you know, from Michael Jordan back in the day, you know, signed it with Nike and taking equity over just a contract. He helped shape Nike and changed and turned into a monumental shoe company and the global brand. And, you know, within ourselves, that's what athletes are as well. Like, we're our own brands or our own global brands. And, you know, we just wanted to be able to show that we're more than just players. And as players, you can give access to our lives behind the scenes.

So this app is going to be like, is it going to be a subscription? I'm going to like, what about, I'm going to see stuff that I can't see on Instagram or whatever. Yeah, exactly. So it's going to be like, I'll post like my day in my day in the life vlogs. I could post my pregame meals. I can post my workout routines. I can interact with fans on a more deeper connection.

And, you know, if they want to have like a little birthday conversation, I can give them a little birthday conversation. They can ask me how the game went. why I made decisions the way that I made. It's just like a, it's more of a personal, personal feel and allowing fans and myself to have a deeper connection and feel like they really get to know me. Like, even my hobbies off the court.

Like, whether or not I like to read or play video games, like I can post that on my app and have conversations with fans and let them know who I really am. Speaking of hobbies, I heard board games are big Aaron D. Smith thing. I heard Clue. I heard Clue is one of them. Who is your character in Clue? Mr. Green.

He's Mayor Green now in like in the in the new. So they have updated them for modern times. It's not it's not Miss Peacock anymore. It's solicitor peacock. They're done. There's not miss everybody. I'm Professor Plum. I'm a professor plum guy.

I've always been a professor plum guy. But I respect Mr. Green. Colonel Must. Colonel Mustard's a little shady. Little shady. I don't trust Colonel Mussel. When I was a kid, when I was a kid, when I wise up. Do you have any.

players on the team? Any players who get into this with you? Nah. Another game I play is Catan. I know Tyrese loves Katan. Yeah, I have not dabbled in that one, you know? I've got a bunch of guy friends who have I have a bunch of guy friends who have invited me to play, but they're like 15 year veterans that they know how to, I'm like, this is complicated, I got grain, I got wood, should I dabble in it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you need, yeah, you should do it for sure. I call it like a more sophisticated monopoly. Okay, all right.

Speaking of growing up, you mentioned Michael Jordan. That's my generation. Who was your favorite player growing up? And you can't say Chris Middleton, who was above you at the same high school? Yeah, Dway. Yeah, I was a big Dway fan. He made me a Miami Heat fan, and he's the reason why I ended up, you know, fall in love of basketball. Really?

So have you told him that? I actually never met him. I've never met him yet. That's got to change. That feels like an easy thing to change. Yeah, it is. It should be. Speaking of growing up, you grew up in South Carolina, same high school as Chris Middleton.

This I did, which I knew, this I did not know. Your dad bought a property on a marsh in South Carolina. Built the house, which is to say that you helped build the house. I'm going to read this paragraph from a story about you in the Indianapolis Star. Aaron cut down trees, dug ponds, and built chicken coops. his mother created a business selling coy fish that they found on the property. I had no idea. And Aaron was instrumental in handling the fish.

Okay. What does that mean? Where do you find the fish? How do you handle the fish? I had no idea that this is the first I'm hearing of this. Yeah, all true. All true facts. So my parents are like huge hobbies.

They have hobbies forever. But like they started to do, they wanted to start a coy business. So my dad went to Japan, got a bunch of coy fish, brought them back, and just started to bring. read and sell them, we would always drive to just different shows. They had Coyfish shows in Greenville, South Carolina, Jacksonville, Florida, Atlanta, Georgia.

And so I would just help them, like, dig the ponds, take care of them, catch them. I used to have to, like, put the waiters on. You know, the waiters you would go. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'd go in the water, take giant nets. So my dad would be on one side of the pond, I'd be on the other, and we just carry the nets

through the water, put them in the corner, and then start picking them up and put them in buckets, bag them up and ship them. And building the house and cutting down the trees, what I liked about the follow-up and the story to that was it's talking about your work ethic. But it's like it hammered into like, I'd rather be a basketball player than do this kind of work. Yeah, 100%. It taught me how to work hard, but also taught me that. Like, yeah, I want to be indoors.

I also heard that you and your family, there was at least one or alligator has invaded the property and it didn't end well. It didn't end well for the alligator. I didn't end well for the alligator. I took no part in that. That's personally one of my biggest fears is alligators. But my dad and my neighbor, they took care of that. They took care of it. We'll just leave it at that.

Give me your best coach Jerry Stackhouse story from your Vanderbilt time. Because Stack is a one-of-one character. He's a unique character. He's a one-on-one, man. I actually ran into him in the airport like two months ago after the finals. But he, I remember one of my first, my first days on campus was stacked my sophomore year. I was in a gym shooting by myself,

and he just, he was in his office, brand new office, comes down and he just starts working out with me one-on-one. And we worked out for about an hour, 45 minutes, and, you know,

he kind of just was like, we're going to get you, we're going to get you right. I'm only, I only plan on coaching you for one year, and then we're going to get you out of here. Wow. Yeah.

And he was probably in almost as good as shape of you as you at one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he would hop in. He would still hop in on five. we'd play five on five he'd hop in he wouldn't run all the way down and back but he would stay on half court and play fives he still had it he still had it all right give last one obviously you've been

in camp with the pacer's t j's injured you've got some stuff you're dealing with um everyone around the league has taken note of like your style of play the team style of play full court press blah you're gonna have some imitators around the league you're gonna have teams that are sort of like ready for it more than they were maybe last year so take me inside camp and give me one the Pacers are going to do this year that's going to surprise us or be a little different or something tactically interesting or a player that's blowing up, just something from inside camp that I'm going to watch game one and be like, oh, okay, that's a thing. I think you'll be shocked at, like, you think we run fast already and everything, but we're

just going to do it faster. We're going to do it faster. We're going to do it more efficiently. We're going to do it better. And I think that, like, a lot of people expect us to change the way that we play, and we're just not. We're just going to do it. Like people can imitate and try and do what we do,

but nobody could do it like us because we've been doing it for so long. And, you know, you can only hope to imitate can't be the original. So I can't, and I can't give away all the secrets. No, you can't. That's why I said, just give me one. Just give me one. Secrets get out fast. Once the game started, it's all on tape.

Aaron Neesmith, congratulations on all your success, all your team success. I look forward to watching you guys this year. Thank you for making a little time. Appreciate you, Zach. It's hard. All right. that's it for the Zach Lowe show today and for this week we talked a lot.

This pod, two episodes, Bill's Pod, the mega over-unders. Enough talking out of me. The season starts next week. Actual games to talk about. Thanks to Steve Nash. Thanks to Aaron Neesmith. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan, and Mike.

On production, thank you for listening and watching The Zach Lowe Show. We'll see you next week for the start of the NBA season. Must be 21 or over in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem.

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