The Zach Lowe Show - Next Steps for Denver? Plus, Reaves’s Return, and Pistons on the Brink!

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Zach is joined by Rob Mahoney to discuss what Austin Reaves’s return would mean for the Lakers. Then, they ponder what’s next for the Rockets, if the Nuggets' championship window is coming to an end, and how the Pistons can come back against the Magic. Finally, they break down who has the edge in TOR-CLE and close the show by sharing two winners and two losers of the postseason so far. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (2:21) Rob Mahoney joins the show! (7:04) Austin Reaves optimistic to return for Game 5 (10:42) If the Rockets lose, what does their future look like? (18:20) Cooper Flagg wins Rookie of the Year (20:29) Lottery reform gaining momentum (27:05) Would it feel hollow if Denver wins this series? (32:17) Is Denver’s window shut? (43:10) Final thoughts on MIN-DEN (48:10) Magic have Detroit on the brink (58:51) Toronto-Cleveland is tied at 2 (1:09:25) If the Cavs lose, it would be more disappointing than the Pistons losing (1:11:47) What’s next for the Phoenix Suns (1:20:33) Two winners and losers of the postseason so far Host: Zach Lowe Guest: Rob Mahoney Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy Gil Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli Order and it will come. Like today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. On the Zach Lowe show, we are past the halfway point of the NBA's first round. One series is over. The thunder had swept the suns. We'll talk a little bit about that and the sun's future. But lots still pending. Austin Reeves is coming back reportedly maybe for the, Lakers in game five.

Rob Mahoney and I will talk about that series, what that return means. Can the Rockets actually pull this off? Denver stayed alive last night with a home win against the injury ravaged. Minnesota Timberwolves, the Nuggets are injury ravaged too. I can't take any more injuries. Nasreid sprained his ankle, but he came back in the game. I need Nause reed to be healthy. We'll talk about what adjustments might come in that series.

Can Minnesota hold on and squeak out one more win without Anthony Edwards and without Dante Divenzo? Would a Denver win feel hollow? What does Denver's future look like? We get into all of that. Orlando Detroit. What a slug fest. Literally blood on multiple players at the end of the game.

Jamal Kane. Jamal Kane ended Jalen Duren. It happened. I couldn't believe it. And then he had another putback dunk. Detroit is on the brink. What would a loss in the first round mean for their franchise going forward in terms of decision making? Can they get back into the series?

We'll talk a little bit about that. Toronto Cleveland, 2.2. Uh-oh. It's getting sticky for the calves. That series resumes tomorrow. Wednesday. We'll talk a little bit about that. And then some winners and losers of the offseason. We'll talk about some trade possibilities, lottery reform, lots and lots of stuff.

We're getting into everything with Rob Mahoney coming up. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA postseason is here, and Fandle knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. Fandul is the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try line. Betteing and jump in after tip-off. And don't forget, with Fanduil, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the Fandul Sportsbook app now and play your game.

21 and over in select states, 18 and over in D.C., Kentucky, Wyoming, gambling problem. Called 1-800-Gambler. Call 1-88-78-9-7777-7. Or visit ccg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Jamal Kane show. I mean, the Zach Lowe show. Rob Mahoney is here.

There is a lot going. on in the NBA. Jail and Durin's remains are splattered all over the floor of whatever the Magic's Arena is called. The Pistons are down 3-1. The Nuggets are alive. Toronto and Cleveland are playing something that resembles basketball and Cullinbury Boyles is just swatting everything out of sight. We got a lot of reform. We got a lot to get to. Mr. Mahoney, how you doing? I'm doing great. I knew I was in the right place because if we aren't leading with Jamal Kane, honestly, what are we doing here? I mean, just let's take a second. That dunk, was, was it, I don't know if it was the dunk of the year because my brain is mush right now from

the first round. I'm sure there was one in the, in the regular season by some super duper star that was that good. That was sometimes dunking on someone. It's like a half dunk on someone or they just start to jump or it's like a half business decision and they get out of it. This was straight up, Jalen Duren went for it and he got yammed on so hard. And it wasn't like one of those dunk's that gets half disrupted in midair because of the shop block attempted. So he just kind of squeeze it in or eke it in. This was, that's as great of a dunk on someone's head as you will see in any kind of basketball game.

And then at the end, they have to stop the game because Desmond Bain is like gushing blood out of his arm and Jalen Suggs his wig. Like, what's happening in this game? My God. Just the layered indignity of being down 3-1 or going down 3-1, getting punked repeatedly by Wendell Carter Jr. And you can draw your inferences as what is it as far as his relation to Jailen Duren and what that means.

And then Jamal Kane, of all people, who just came into this game, and really has come into the series and been solid and legit and given the magic a lot of good minutes. But you don't expect to get yammed on by Jamal Kane like that. If you are potential all-N-B-A player, Jail, and Duren.

And then he had, like, footnote, emphatic put-back dunk that no one will even remember because it was just like kind of a regular but awesome put-back dunk. Anyway, we will get to that series. Tonight we have resuming Boston Philly 3-1. I would expect Boston to close it out.

M-Bed or no M-Bed. It appears M-Bed is a yes. We have Spurs Blazers, Blazers resuming, Spurs up 3-1. I would expect the spurs to close it out. And then we have the biggest game of the night. Knicks-Hawks at Madison Square Garden, game five, absolutely pivotal game,

in part because Rob, we're going to pivot to the West in a second, but just in general, I am very curious to watch Boston tonight, because before game four, when they just destroyed Philadelphia under an avalanche of threes and Peyton Pritcher just dancing on everyone, their game three win was a little dicier than I expected it to be after losing game two. It was a little too close for comfort for Boston. And it kind of had me thinking, like, at that point, the Knicks were down to one, they end up tying this series of two, two.

Against the Hawks team that's good, but like no one looks at the Hawks as, oh, my God, this is the finals team. Sure. The number one seat in the East is down 3-1. The Star Studded Cavaliers are doing the same thing that the star-studied Cavaliers do every season in the playoffs, which is have a ton of trouble with the team that they should not be having this much trouble with. And then the Celtics before that game four win looked like good,

but they're still the Tatum recovering thing. And their centers are not a question mark, but just a little up and down sometimes. Derek White's in a shooting slump. And it's like, is Orlando going to win the East? Like, what's going on in the East? And then they came out in game four and I thought made a statement of like, no, no. We are the best team in the East.

And so I'm interested to see that one tonight. And then Knicks Hawks, look out, man. If the Knicks go down three, two. Going to get real loud. McHale Bridge is my need protective detail if they go down three, two. It's getting, I mean, it's just such a weird series, such an incredible series.

But I have a hard time parsing where the dynamics are right now. Like the Knicks obviously looked as impressive as they have this entire run so far. But I don't know that I would bet on that to stay. I don't know that I'm betting on a cat triple double every night. I don't know that I'm completely sold that they're going to shut down C.J. McCollum in the way that they were at least partially able to in game four. I'm afraid, I'm saying this.

It is 11 a.m. Eastern Time, 8 a.m. your time out in L.A. So this could just be the curse of all curses. I'm a little happy for Kat that if the Knicks lose to this point, he is not the scapegoat or the problem. Not even close. And now I say that. And God only knows what pit. what pit of hell I have opened for catch. But we'll get to that, all that stuff later.

Let's start with the games that are resuming Wednesday and on and the news of the morning. Shams reporting that Austin Reeves is optimistic about returning for game five of Lakers Rockets. A series that kind of became a forgotten series after the Lakers went up 3-0 in the Rockets, pretty like emphatic home win to save their season in game four. And I could tell on Sunday night, Bill was so delighted and just wanted to fast forward this discussion to, are the Rockets going to do this? Are the Lakers going to be the first team ever to blow a 3-1 lead?

What are your thoughts on Austin Rees? Well, first of all, like, Austin Reeves comes back. Yeah. You now have a choice if he comes back. Obviously, that's helpful. The Lakers offense is kind of starting to lead oil a little bit. You do face a choice of like, who are we bringing off the bench now? Marcus Smart, Rui Hachamura, or Luke Kinnard.

I think smart has been too essential as a two-way player. So it becomes between Hachamura and Kinnard, who would you bring off the bench and, like, do the Rockets just big picture, can they actually do this or is it too big of a hill? I wish I could believe that they could do this, but the Rockets, I mean,

they just play some of the dumbest basketball of anybody alive in the playoffs. In terms of the decision-making, in terms of like the teetering edge of when they are good versus when they are bad, always feel so perilous and they're always so close to it, the idea that they would have the precision necessary to pull off an unprecedented comeback,

I just don't buy it. And so as things stand, Austin Reeves should help accelerate the Lakers through whatever is left of this series. I think for as amazing as he's been, moving Luke Kinnard to the bench makes sense, just in terms of balancing the rotation, giving some of the oomph that he's brought to the Lakers

in the starting lineup, but now you can kind of stretch it out over the course of the game. And if anything, in this potential closeout effort, I thought we saw, you know, LeBron bumping up against some of the reasonable limits

of what he can provide. And so the more you can augment what he's bringing and Reeves is bringing while cautiously easing back into the lineup with Karnard off the bench in his like new reinvented form. I think that makes a lot of sense for them. I just, it's hard to imagine the Houston Rockets, given the state of their offense winning four basketball games in a row against a good team. Now, a good team that has home court advantage over them. Yeah. Their defense is halacious and they will be competitive almost every game. And this could be a 2-2 series, if not for one of the all-time, incredible, inexplicable collapses in game three.

I still can't even believe that that happened. I don't think the Lakers can believe it. I don't think anyone involved can believe it. But it just, it would seem unlikely to me. But did you see anything in game four other than the Rockets finally putting Luke Kinnard through the ringer on defense that struck you as, okay, that's interesting. that's something the Lakers might have to adjust to? I mean, to be honest, not particularly. I mean, I think it was a more encouraging effort from Shangun overall,

just in terms of the balance of his game and his playmaking. And like, he has to be good, right? Like, that's without Kevin Durant, that is like the baseline expectation of what has to happen for their half court offense. But I didn't watch the flow and the operations of the rockets and think, oh, this is a team that's like really figured some stuff out. It's like selective mismatch targeting. Obviously, like the more you can create turnovers and get out on,

transition, all the better for a team like this. But they're just one of these groups that gets by off of that athleticism and off that tenacity on defense. And otherwise, like, I just don't trust their problem solving. And as you alluded to with the implosion in game three, I just don't truck their like collective poise in a lot of these situations. Michael Pina wrote about this already yesterday, the Durant situation. He has a year and then a player option left on his contract.

I just think if they lose this series and history suggests apologies to the Rockets fans that they will lose the series, I do think they face an interesting like three-pronged decision. Decision number one, the choice path number one is

stay the course, this was a gap year. KD comes back, Fred Van Vleet comes back. That's about his Amen Thompson gets better. Tar Easton is a free agent. We've got to figure him out. Jabari Smith Jr. gets better. Everyone improves. Shangun improves. This is like a pretty good team and maybe actually the best way we can compete against Oklahoma City

and San Antonio who are going to own this conference for the foreseeable future. Path number two is like, oh God, our team isn't good enough. Trade Schengun and the Nets pick and a ton of other stuff for Janus or another superstar and hope that Janus plus Durant plus Van Vleet plus whatever is left over, presumably Ahmed Thompson, because you're not going to trade both of those guys, Shangy and Thompson, I would think not, is enough, whether the Bucks do that or not. Whole other story, I don't want to talk about the Bucks. Path number three, which is almost the most interesting one and the least sexy one, is do you

just trade Durant as like almost a timetable reset? Like, all right, this didn't work. It got a little messy. There was a whole burn on our phone thing that happened. That happened. and could we trade him to any number of teams in the Eastern Conference who are like, hey, we're in the East, we got a shot, you guys have no shot, and just get some stuff for him.

You still have Van Vlitz stuck there, but like just, okay, let's reset a little bit around these young guys who are pretty good and see what we have and keep our Nets pick from next year, keep our sons draft assets, keep all that. I almost think that might be, I actually might rank them in order of like what I would do. Stan Pat, Durant trade, Janice, all in move. I might put Janice all in move like last of those three,

which seems a little crazy to me because I don't know which of any of those paths is putting me on the same level of the two best teams in the conference who are only going to get better. Yeah. Well, does Stan Pat include the coaching staff as well? You know, look, I called

EMA's Game 2 coaching performance, and I quote myself, borderline insane. So I have not been a huge fan of his performance on the offensive end of the ball. His ability to build a culture and build a defense is like unimpeachable. That's just the thing. He's good at it. Agreed. I said in the middle of the season, like let's start taking bets on who the Mike Dantonie style offensive oriented associate head coaches on the Rockets next year.

I still think given the injuries, I would actually, I mean, this is really not based on what I've heard, but just my. gut. I would actually be surprised if they moved on for Mime. I don't think it would be completely outrageous or out of play, but I would bet that he stays as the coach. I think that's fair in terms of the sort of cover that coaches get in these situations. But if we're charting out those three possibilities with Ime O'Doka continuing as the coach, I don't know that I really want to see the half torn down, not Kevin Durant version of this team anymore. Like we saw that team run up against the wall last year. We know exactly what they can and can't do.

A little bit of incremental improvement from some of the young players involved helps, but I don't think it resolves any of their problems. And to me, this boils down to like, do you see Kevin Durant as a sunk cost or do you see him as like a slightly open window? And I think at this point in his career, I think a slightly open window feels fair. If you can get him a little bit more flow, a little bit more help, even like a Fred Van Vliet amount of help within this offense would do wonders for the Rockets. I think they are close enough

that I would continue to lean into what they have and honestly, like I'm maybe just like just sour enough on the Shangoon long-term projection that I'm okay exploring some of those possibilities while keeping Kevin Durant if that's what it came down to. I just don't know that I would bail on this so quickly

even for as messy and as weird as it's been. I think that's fair. I think Stan Pat is, stampat-ish, right? There's always going to be tweaks and stuff, but they have some really valuable draft assets and I'm like

I don't know they can play both sides of it pretty well okay just looking forward a second will you just do me the luxury of Thunder Lakers just I've started looking ahead to that matchup

if Luca could ever get back and I'm not sure what the timetable is it doesn't seem terribly optimistic I actually think the Jalen Williams injury if he is also out could really matter in this series because if Luca's back and Reeves is back,

you have these three really good offensive players, Dort would guard one and Jalen Williams would guard the other. And typically Jalen Williams would guard LeBron and Dort would guard Luca Dantzic. If Luke is out, you just slide Dort over to LeBron and you figure it out. If they have all of them and the Thunder don't have Jailen Williams, it kind of gets, I mean,

I would still pick the Thunder to win the series, to be clear. It just kind of gets fun in terms of the jigsaw puzzle of like, okay, is Chet going to guard LeBron? We actually saw a little bit of that in the last matchup. Okay, if not Chet, is Dork going to guard LeBron? Well, then who's guarding Luca? Do I have to change my starting five, which right now is A.J. Mitchell,

do I have to start a more defensive-oriented player in that spot? It kind of becomes like you see at least a road map for the Lakers to just slow this down, play old man, bully ball, Luca-centric basketball, and like at least make it a competitive series. I think that Jay, now he's week to week, Lucas whatever to whatever, they could both be back, neither of them could be back, I have no idea. I just think it's like kind of interesting to think about. It's definitely interesting to think about. I also think it's exactly what people like us want out of a thunder playoff run.

Like where are the points where they're really being pressed and tested and forced to be something outside of what they would like to be. Like they would love to throw AJ Mitchell out there, but making it untenable makes the thunder more interesting. And to be honestly, there should be something illegal about coming back from injury and having to be guarded by Lou Dort in a playoff series. Why, because you're going to get tripped within five minutes? You're at least going to be thinking about it nonstop. And for that reason alone, I think if you're going through the matchups from the Thunder perspective,

I would put Lou Dort on either Luca or Austin Reeves just for like the psychic value of put Lou Dort firmly in their head every time they're thinking about the stability of their lower body. Like it's a, it's a, it's a mean. I mean, it's the gamesmanship of the playoffs. What else are you supposed to do? Yeah. But I do think Ched would end up guarding LeBron a lot in that series. I think that would be an, I know really fun matchup to see LeBron try to leverage his strength against him. Like big, wiry rim protector against like grizzled ultra clever playmaker trying to body him at every turn.

Like, that's the kind of matchup I want to see. You could also, you could do some really interesting things with Hartenstein too when they have the both the bigs out there. You could put Hardinstein on LeBron and just sort of sit back and see what happens and make Chet the rim protector on Aiton. And then they go one big. It gets, then they go just one big. It gets a little easier. Anyway, we're getting too far afoot. Some quick newsy things.

Rob, did we win the rookie of the year argument? Because you were Cooper Flag all along. And I flipped to Cooper Flagg before the playing tournament at the end of the season. Very close vote. Just and it's a matter of taste. I just, I went with Flag in the end. for reasons I've already articulated. It was very close.

And it should, I was actually even closer than I thought it was. I thought Con was going to win and it was going to be close. I think the play in just destroyed Khan's rookie year. Like I think those two games or that one was, those two games did him in. And I know that the NBA is not psyched that people may have changed their vote because of the playing tournament,

to which I say, sorry NBA, you created the problem. You created this appeals system that delayed everybody getting their ballots. And then you asked voters to do something that they couldn't do, which is tell their human brain with all its vulnerabilities and vicissitudes, hey, brain, shut off, watch the play in and analyze it, but shut off the awards part of yourself and all those neurons over there. And don't consider it for the awards.

It's not possible. It's the NBA's fault. And if the play and swung the race, which I believe it did, then. too bad NBA. Yeah, I was genuinely shocked. And maybe this is just because we're in a con echo chamber over here as far as, you know, who is getting votes and who is getting carpool rides and whatnot.

But I think we, like, you either have to resolve the play-in interim period and just get the votes in earlier or just let them count. Like, I don't even really see a problem. If we're allowing the NBA Cup championship, which is technically not a regular season game, to factor into awards voting at a bunch of other different ones, ways. Like, what is the harm in letting a play-in game factor in? I think the, you need to count, the playing games have to count for something.

They either need to be playoff games. Like, you go look for the playing games. Like, I was looking at Jalen Green's playoff stats because we're going to talk about the suns at the end. And I'm like, oh, Jalen Green's playoffs stats. They look a lot like Joe and Green says. Oh, he played really well in the play in. Can't find those stats anywhere.

They don't exist. It didn't happen. Last bit of news. The lottery reform, which I don't want to belabor. but I said this a few weeks ago with Stan Van Gundy, that the one that has momentum, and Sam Amick sort of reiterated this yesterday in his reporting, because there's a, I guess, the GM's call today is,

18 teams get into the lottery. So the 10 that missed the playoffs, the 10 that missed the play in and the playoffs, the four losers from the play in, and the four winners from the play in, and the odds for the 10 worst teams are all flat. They all have the same odds at the number one pick, And then the other eight teams, so the play-in teams, including the ones that make the playoffs,

get a lesser portion of the odds. And beyond that, the specifics are TBD, like how many slots do you draw in all of this? Needless to say, this would have a huge impact on tons of team-building decisions, on tons of picks that have already been traded. We're going to talk about Denver in a minute. My just general question, too, I don't want to get into all the different proposals and, like, this proposal that incentivizes winning and this credits-based proposal that I reported on a couple weeks ago, which is really interesting. Do you like this one? I like it fine. As usual,

I don't think it solves all the problems. And as usual, I think it probably will just kind of shift the battleground of where the tanking occurs. Like, I think we're just going to see teams like really valuing being in that like 10th worst record slot as opposed to, you know, some of these play in births or some of like the play and security of where you're seated in that particular bracket. So it's like you get rid of some of like the most unseemable. stuff and maybe that's worth it, right? Like the Wizards pulling guys and the jazz sitting guys and the Pacers like hoping to God that no one looks too closely

at what they're doing on a nightly basis. But does it really change a lot if you're just moving some of that to like a Bucks Warriors game or those two teams like jockeying in the standings to be slightly worse than each other to get like a flat 8% odd? I think their bet is teams are going to care about winning in the playoffs

too much to tank out of the top six and into the play-in and out of the play-in and into the lottery. And I think that's pretty reasonable. I don't mind this proposal. Like here's what I mind. So this is a sentence from Sam Amick. And this is his words, but he's just parroting what you hear from teams who don't like this because it's too flat and it's too disadvantageous to the worst teams.

He says, what might the league-wide reaction be for? example, when one of those two lottery teams that actually took part in the playoffs gets lucky by landing the number one pick, this stuff drives me insane. This is the stupidest possible sentiment out there about lottery reform because you cannot, unless there's a middle ground that I'm missing and please tell me if there is, you cannot bemoan tanking and be like, this is a scourge on the league, it's horrible, and then be like, oh my God, but what if the 16th best team wins the lottery. What if a playoff team wins the lottery? You have to be willing to live with that kind of outcome if you want to eradicate tanking unless there's another kind of solution that I don't see.

And there's a million different ones that are out there. But if you're sticking with this sort of format, you can't have everything. You can't have the perfect reverse order draft where the worst teams get rewarded. And you can't also have, be angry about, oh my God, a mid-tier team won the lottery. You have to be willing to live with something. And in the, and this is the short-term thinking of everyone in the league, if you played out this system for 50 years, it would favor the worst teams in the aggregate, slightly at least.

And so it's just you just have to, what are you willing to live with? If you're not willing to live with tanking, you have to be willing to live with a team that's in the playoffs or a team that's just in the end of the lottery, winning the lottery in a year where the draft actually matters. and Sam cites the Mavericks with Cooper Flag and other sort of recent big jumps up in the letter. Yeah, it's already happening. Right.

That sentiment just drives me insane. The pro-clutching of like, won't someone think of the children? Like, if you want to get rid of tanking, you're going to have to swallow some pain elsewhere. Well, especially when we're talking about playing teams. Like, if you were to concoct a dream scenario, if you get to hand pick exactly who gets the number one pick next year,

I would think on the grounds of ethical basketball alone, the Sons would be like a good candidate. Right? Like they played hard all year. They overachieved. They worked through defense. They took this roster and really made something of it relative to expectation. Like, why would that not be the kind of team that would be a great story to land the number one overall pick?

Well, the only problem with that is they don't have it. They don't have it. But if they did own their own picks, perhaps maybe it would be a great story to own it. Okay. Well, we'll get back to the Sons. Let's talk about the events of the night and what's going to. on going on going forward. Before we even do that, like, do you, if we're

going to make dramatic proposals like this to the lottery system, I do think this is a great time for it because of the magic. Like, because a play in team is having like real success pushing in, creating the competing motivation of, should I be trying to tank for these flattened

odds or to get into this particular flattened bracket versus maybe our team is talented enough and uneven enough to believe that we could push a number one or number two seed if given the perfect matchup. That's fair. That's a good point. And they were a playing team. So this team would be in the lottery to your point under this proposal. Look, there's a billion different proposals. They all have issues. They all move the lines a little bit. It's just is it is it is it's it's it just is it's it's what it is. I just don't want to hear that. And by the way, this, whatever this solution is is not is it's been made very clear in the competition committee meetings that it's not going to be a permanent solution necessarily. Like there's, it's going to. It's going to. It's going to. It's going to. It's going to. It's. It's. It's going to. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's to be revisited in five, six, seven years and more radical solutions like that credit-based system could be on the table then.

Okay, let's talk about the playoffs. Minnesota, Denver, Denver, you know, pretty emphatic home win last night, despite no Aaron Gordon, no Peyton Watson, but a win that you should get when Anthony Edwards is out and Dante DiVincenzo is out for the season and for a lot of next year, if not all, of next year. Now the series heads to Minnesota for game six. Obviously there's going to be a ton of pressure on a short-handed wolf's team to get this thing over the finish line, which I think they can do.

They proved it in game four that they can do it. I guess my first question to you would be, if Denver comes back to win this series, would it feel hollow to you? A little bit. I mean, I think you could see a bunch of very obvious and also very downstream implications. of not having anted Dante out there. Like it completely changes the entire shape of the wolves. It puts guys in roles that they're not used to being in.

Even when you think about defensively, like the cascading effect once you go from Jaden McDaniels to now your second best defender on the perimeter is basically Iodosumu, who's good and active, but also like a little spacey and a little unreliable in certain positioning ways, that's a dramatic change in tenor of the series.

And so if you did have the nuggets roaring back to find a version of themselves again to win the series, you would want them to do it through Anthony Edwards, to be going through the resistance of this series and not you almost win, not on technicality, but your path has been smoothed to a degree that it's so much easier to find yourself.

I think it would feel hollow. And I don't mean that as a slight to the nuggets because you can't apologize for winning and they're short-handed too. They're just not this shorthanded. Like you take Anthony Edwards out, that's a different ballgame, as great as Aaron Gordon is

and as perfect as a fit as he is and as good as Peyton Watson is. And by the way, I think fans who, you know, kind of tuning it out in the regular season may still think of Peyton Watson as this like cute seventh or eighth guy off the bench that he became a really, really good starter level player who is a sneaky, very important free agent this offseason for both the Nuggets and maybe the Lakers and a bunch of other teams. I think it would feel a little hollow, but again, you can't apologize for it.

I have no idea if Aaron Gordon will play again in the postseason. he looked like really, really compromised in game four, scarily compromised, I thought. He looked like they were trying to get away with something. It's like how long can we have Aaron Gordon on the court before the wolves realize they don't have to guard him basically at all? Which they did realize. And a little bit of that happened with Nas read last night after he sprained his ankle. They started being like, oh, we can just put anybody on Nasrida.

And like, please, Nasreid, be healthy. I can't take any more of these injuries. Oh, by the way, we'll get to that. I'll get back to that. But it would also, if Denver comes back to win, I think potentially forestall some pretty hefty decisions about this core and how to move forward if they had just gotten wiped out in five games in this series.

And it did really look like those three games in a row in the two in Minnesota, like Minnesota had just busted their ass. Like they had beaten them up, they had taken them out of their games, game. They had taken Yokic completely out of his game, like very frazzled and just out of it, and exposed that without Gordon and Watson, the Nuggets just don't have enough talent around Murray and Yokic, who neither of them was letting it up anyway. And I think if they actually scrounge this series in seven games and then let's say they put up a respectable effort against

the Spurs and losing six, I think you just end up being like, all right, like maybe we have to salary dump Cam Johnson to keep Peyton Watson. I think that's a thing that could be on the Matt, but like largely, what else are we supposed to do? We made the second round. We have Murray and Yokic in their primes. Yeah, we're not as good as the Thunder and the Spurs, but we got to run it back. I think if they get wiped out in this series, it raises a lot of, a lot of big issues. And like, that's what it turns on, though.

They would be deserved issues. I think the problem with where the nuggets are is there are only so many levers to pull that would actually make you in any way better. Like, I understand the concerns about Aaron Gordon's health. now given the way these last two seasons have gone, you're not going to find anyone out there who Aaron Gordon's better than Aaron Gordon. Like that very particular skill set and role

is so critical to them that I don't know that they're going to find a demonstrative upgrade. Other than maybe they would trade Gordon for a different kind of player and just really prioritize and elevate Peyton Watson there. But even then, he's like better at guarding wings and guards than he is at like cross-matching to guard fives, which doesn't alleviate the concerns

about Nicola Yoguch's defense. Christian Brown at this point, might be untradable if you don't attach something pretty juicy to get to that like $125 million contract he's owed. Really, really disappointing season and postseason. And I don't remember off the stop of my head what the specifics were in terms of like

what was Peyton Watson asking for and this and that. But like looks like they made the wrong choice if it was really their choice. And I'm not sure it entirely was, but yeah, very disappointing. Yeah. And I can understand some of the thinking, right? like betting on the cautious middle ground of this is a solid, reliable role player who is just coming off of a very improved season, we're going to take what feels like the safer bet versus the high end possibility of what Peyton Watson has become.

Unfortunately, Peyton Watson is kind of tapping onto that high end, and Kristen Brown may not have been as safe a bet as they thought. And in particular, that's a lot of money to place on even what feels like a safe bet for what's going to be your fifth starter, maybe fourth starter, aspirationally. it really, if, I mean, they would, I don't think it's unfair to, if they lose, if they lose this series now to begin asking the question like, is the window just shut on this court, given how how great the top two seeds in the West are now and figure to be in the next few years. And if you think it is closed, what do you do about it? And Denver's situation is like pretty interesting. So they owe their, they have their first round pick this year.

they owe their 2027 pick with top five protection that rolls over multiple years to the thunder. Of all teams, the freaking thunder. And so let's, if they probably will give that pick, it's hard to imagine the nuggets are picking in the top five next in 2027. Then they would have their 2028 pick, but they can't trade it in the meantime. They can trade it maybe once they make that pick, if, if.

They owe their 2029 pick top five protected to guess who? Oklahoma City. And these are trades that Calvin Booth made with the idea of we're going to trade out of the future to get extra bites at the Apple now when Yoko just prime to get like more rookie scale contracts. And has it paid off? It's like they got Peyton Watson, I think, with one of those trades. It's like neither here nor there.

And so in the meantime, they can't really move their 2030 or 2031 picks until all of those obligations are extinguished. And then they owe their 2032 pick unprotected to the Nets in the Cam Johnson, Michael Porter, or junior trade. The top five protection is interesting because it does, in theory, give them some protection if they just decide it's over and we want a tank. However, the lottery odds changing really mitigates against that because right now, you can control your own destiny to a degree that you will not be able to if these

flat lottery odds are actually passed. And not only that, being in the middle becomes more profitable for you and sort of, I think, maybe pushes teams to just say, well, you know, if we are a whatever team, if we can trade Jamal Murray and do this and that and be like a good team, but not a great team, that's fine. It's just, did I spend time making up fake Yokic and Murray deals, Rob? Yes, yes, I did. Because I think it's a fun thought exercise, but I don't know. It's interesting to think about, like if you trade one, should you just trade both?

Or is there like a Murray trade out there that, you know, you just keep like, you don't know one wants to trade Nicola Yolkich, right? But I did spend some time on it. I think you have to for that reason. Like you outlined that one of their only means of relief is to just like dump Cam Johnson somewhere else. They just don't have a lot of other maneuvers to make except the big nuclear stuff. Yeah.

You want to hear some? I would love to. What do you have? I mean, I didn't go too, too deep because I think, I think it's a little early and a little outrageous. But I will say, like, Charlotte for either guy is interesting. Toronto for either guy is interesting. Now, the nuggets would surely not trade Yolkits without getting Scotty Barnes.

And so maybe that doesn't make sense for the Raptors. Well, as I was going through the exercise of like, who could fill the Aaron Gordon spot in a similar way to Aaron Gordon? I mean, Scotty Barnes is among the dream. candidates, but you're right. It seems impossible that they would end up on the same team. I mean, you have to find a team that has a really good young player or players, surplus of potentially actually good first round picks, and could reasonably say, after we trade all of that stuff for one or both or one of these guys, we can win immediately. And it's a hard needle to thread. I really thought about Detroit, sign and trade,

Jalen Duren, and a billion other things. But unfortunately, that the cap exists and there's base year compensation rules and also the nuggets are probably going to be over the first apron and can't get a player in a sign and trade. And then you have the teams like, to what end? Chicago, to what end? Brooklyn. Like if Brooklyn is supposedly in on Yanis, why wouldn't they be in on Yokic? Like, but to what end?

The Lakers, everyone will want to sign and trade reeducated the same thing. The Warriors, same thing. You'll hear warriors. Like the Murray one just alone, like, and Lakers. you could make an argument for either guy in Atlanta with all the extra picks they have, including this Pelicans pick. I just these are the kind of teams that you had to at least think about. I just don't know that there's anything palatable for Denver.

But that window, if it's not, if it's not shut, is getting like pretty close because Minnesota kicked the crap out of them. But now they're alive. They're alive and they win this series. I think it forestalls all this. Did you see like, so what can Minnesota do without their starting back court? Like, did you see any glimpses of interesting stuff in that game last night? I think it's pretty challenging.

And you could see the nuggets just with like slightly better and more precise and more active defense. We're able to muck things up and make things pretty challenging for Minnesota's playmakers. It's just a lot to ask of Iodosumu to go from like, oh, make the most of this like semi-transition break to now you have to read multiple layers of defense or Julius Randall. Now you have multiple bodies being thrown to you all the time. Jade McDaniels, like your handle is so much improved, now do something with it on a level that's going to carry everything that like Ant initiating carries.

I think that part of it is really hard. I do think that they can gum up the game enough, though, to make it more competitive than this. And certainly was in the first half. Like, so much of what Denver was able to accomplish was diversifying who was handling the ball for them. It was like getting Cam Johnson into situations where he was being more aggressive.

It was activating Spencer Jones in a way where you're like, I think he was the first non-yokic Murray, nugget to put up 20 at any point in the series so far, that stuff you can take away. And certainly we've seen Gobert make Yokic's life a living hell enough to know that it's not always going to be like this. It's not always going to be as free-flowing as it was for the nuggets here.

I think Randall has to just have one huge game. And you could see them kind of toying with, are there ways that we can get him switched onto smaller players? Like, can we run an I.O. Randall pick and roll or Randall Bones Pick and Roll, like something to just get us a lever to pull to draw help in the half court. There is something interesting when they have Conley and I, when they have any two of Conley, I.O. and bones on the floor of like, you feel, and this is not new, but it's now just more important. You feel the change from kind of one alpha ball handler who's going to initiate everything to the ability to move from one side to the other a little bit. And that I think is important.

And then Nodz read, it's so interesting how they use them. how they use him. We're going to see them play the three big guys together more. We saw that. We saw Kyle Anderson and two big guys more because two of their perimeter guys are out. They tend to use Nas Reid no matter who's on him, whether it's a bigger guy or a smaller guy, as just like a gigantic guard. Like they'll run them off pin downs.

They'll run them in pick and rolls. They'll have him run off flare screens. I like when they put him in the post against smaller players. That said, it's harder to do when like Randall and Gobert or Randall and Anderson, like two paint cloggers are on the full. But Nas is going to have to have a big one. And you mentioned Gobert. I think one of the things I wanted to highlight how good he's been.

I mentioned this with Bill that I'm sure you have noticed this, that Yokic's post touches are down. And his rolls to the rim on the pick and roll are really down because they've just taken away that floater. And I thought it was interesting right away he got one of those floaters last night. And I thought that was important. But because of the way they guard Murray and how great Gobert has been, he's just not even trying to get to it very often. He's just popping out or hanging out around the perimeter,

and the wolves are thrilled with that. And he's running way more pick and roll. And I looked it up this morning. Regular season, he ran 10 pick and rolls as the ball handler per 100 possessions. In this series, he's up to almost 15. And you can just see like the wolves are making them stretch their playbook as far as it goes because all their pet stuff for him is just not working. that said at the end in sometime in the fourth quarter got a little dicey in the fourth quarter last night.

It did. They ran like a cross screen for him when he had Nas read on him and he got a deep post touch and it was an easy end one. Like I just don't understand whenever anybody but Gobert is on him and maybe Minnesota just has to tether Gobert to him more like more permanently. I don't understand why they're just not feeding him in the post. He might just be tired. Yeah. But those are times when he's got to eat. But I don't know, man.

It's going to be interesting game six. You could see some of that stretching of the playbook you were talking about, too, just in terms of who the Nuggets were trying to involve in action, right? It's one thing if Jaden McDaniels is on Jamal Murray, that's like the most scouted action in terms of what's going on in this series, the Yokic Murray stuff. I thought the Nuggets did a really good job in this game of mixing it up to where Cam Johnson, Spencer Jones.

They were dragging instead of like, oh, let's bring Jaden McDaniels over to Nicola Yokic for this dribble handoff or pick and roll. or whatever. It was, let's get Mike Conley in there. Let's get Bones Highland in there. Let's exploit some of those multiple guard lineups you mentioned. I like when Jamal Murray hunts those guys and posts them up and inverts the floor. I think that should be a weapon for them too.

Yep. I think this is a coin toss series now. It's also just a really depressing series given all the injuries. Well, let's take a quick break and then a couple more thoughts on this matchup. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fandul, the NBA playoffser here in everything's. on the line. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings the game. And tonight is your shot to boost your bet. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger. And Fandual is giving you better payouts on same game

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Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Available in select areas, terms apply. I have two very important takes from this game that are just, you have to hear them. Number one, if a player on the other team, Jada McDaniels, calls out your entire team. Basically said, you're all bad at this part of the game. They're all bad.

Everyone's bad. They're all bad. And you dunk on that player. You get to point at them without getting called for a technical foul. I understand the rest have to make sure there's no altercation. Christian Brown pointed at Jada McDaniels and got teed up. He should have carte blanche to point at Jada McDaniels. You should be able to grab his crotch and point at Jada McDaniels after what Jada McDaniels said.

And I love that Jada McDaniel said it. Bad technical, boo, no fun. I think we need to broaden it out, Zach. I think we just need to open our hearts to taunting again, period. I don't care about the altercations. I think if you score in any way on somebody, you get two seconds to do or say basically whatever you want. Short of like punching someone,

I just have a lot of allowance for basically any taunting. If Jamal Kane had run into the stands and chug the fan's beer and run back onto the floor, I would have been like, great, no technical foul. Game continues. Let's keep it moving. Take number two, I'm really now going to sound like Abe Simpson yelling at a cloud.

In the second quarter of this game, Bruce Brown led a four on one, not a two on one, not a three on one, a four on one with Julian Strother on the right wing, Cam Johnson on the left wing, and Tim Hardaway Jr. running the lane kind of with him. And Bruce Brown picked up his dribble on the pickax on the Denver Nuggets logo and passed to Cam Johnson for a three that the basketball gods were never going to let go in. There was a breeze that came in, blew it off course. We need an interview. with these fast breaks that end in three-pointers instead of layups and dunks. It was a four-on-one.

If I were David Adelman, I would have fined Bruce Brown for making that pass. I would have fined Cam Johnson for taking the shot. Well, I would say that the world found its equilibrium later in this game when Cam Johnson was leading a three-on-three break, got a slight step. And you could tell Cam Johnson has spent days like looking in the mirror, telling himself to let it fly, telling himself to be more assertive. gets back on the court because that dude just barged down the lane and dunked when cam johnson a couple days ago would have definitely kicked it out to tim hardaway junior so i'll do credit to cam who

i thought like really came to play for this one he did okay fine he gets it's neutral he gets he doesn't have to pay a fine but he doesn't get anything extra bruce brown gets fined uh also gets fine for shaving the good part of the fu-manchu mustache that he had um just last thing on denver i'm not gonna i'm not gonna just shut the window i want to see how this ends and what they do in the offseason but But, man, 2021 and 2022, those lost years, those hurt. If you play out the NBA 50 times on a computer simulation, in 2021, 2022, or 2024, I bet they get one of those rings. And the entire conversation about Yolkits is different and Murray is different.

And the other kids are different. But guess what? They didn't. They didn't get either of them. And in 2024, that Minnesota series, it's a great win by Minnesota. and clearly they are now have the upper hand in this matchup by the tiniest of margins. Game two, that's the nuggets lose the first two games at home and completely unravel and let go of the rope in game two.

That's the Jamal Murray throws the heating pack on the floor game. And then game six when they go up three, two, they just punted the game in Minnesota. They lost by, I think, 45 points. They clearly were like, we have game seven at home. We're fine. You cannot do that in the playoffs. You can't punt a game no matter how good you think you are. what your lead is, especially if it's three, two.

And then they blew a 20 point lead or whatever in game seven at home. They will ruin the day because they would probably beat in Dallas the next round. Certainly. And then finals against Boston is interesting. Okay. Can I throw one more thing about this series before we move on, Zach? Absolutely. That's why you're here.

Jamal Murray, I thought, had like a good game, not an exemplary Jamal Murray game, but a very necessary one. And I thought he just fought like hell at a time where that's exactly what Denver needed. And in particular, there was a sequence in the third quarter where he was driving, he lost his footing, he just had to throw the ball away as he was falling to the ground. And he got up like three times on one possession to get into a scrum for a loose ball, to disrupt the wolves in the back court, ended up drawing a foul on the play. And it's like, at the risk of belaboring, the like the playoffs are about getting off the mad metaphor here.

Like, this is genuinely what the nuggets needed in this sort of moment was like that sort of resilience, that sort of energy. and I want to salute Jamal Murray for it. Yeah, it's just the playoffs. I mean, you can feel the urgency of all these games. We'll talk about Toronto and Cleveland later. I mean, the effort level that Scotty Barnes is putting forth on both ends of the floor in that series. I'm exhausted watching it.

Okay, Orlando, Detroit, the magic who spent the entire year farting around using injuries as an excuse, having passive aggressive, not even passive aggressive, aggressive, aggressive coach player back and forths are up three ones. over the 60 win, feel good Detroit Pistons. We talked about Jamal Kane. We talked about the blood. There was a sequence with like three and a half minutes left where Jalen Suggs got a break, like broke full court pressure basically. And went right at Isaiah Stewart at the rim at full speed and tried to dunk on beef stew,

who had eight blocks last night. He was insane. And that was one of them. And then there was like a 22nd period where the entire game just blacked out. out and everybody was on the floor. And there were like four more attempts to dunk on Isaiah Stewart, none of which were successful. People were falling over.

Robbie Humble on the broadcast just went, oh, my goodness. And then Detroit got the ball and Tobias Harris missed a wide open three. Dennis Jenkins then missed another wide open three. Kate Cunningham missed a pretty easy floater by his standards when the magic went over a pick. And the pistons did not make a basket, a field goal for like five straight minutes in the game, until garbage time. and now they are on the ropes.

The Magic and the Pistons rank 15th and 16th out of 16th out of 16th playoff teams in offensive efficiency. This has been a defensive, physical, nasty series. Detroit has home court. This is where you, if you're down 3-1, it helps to have five and seven at home. How can they get back into this series, Mr. Mahoney? I thought the most successful stuff they were doing by far offensively was any time they were able to clear one side of the floor for a pick and roller

dribble handoff. It was like, oh my God, the seas have parted. There's actual flow to this offense, whether it is leading to a Jalen Durenk on the roll or a kickout to like a very good, clean three for an actual shooter. That stuff is really good. If you can get to it more and that's so much easier said than done, that is a route to good offense. It's just so hard when you have multiple non-shooters on the floor.

And so I think the answer, honestly, might be that some of these guys just have to play less. Like Assar Thompson is a great candidate who is so important to their defense. in theory is one of the best defensive players in the league this season, I don't think he has registered a positive impact overall in terms of his time on the floor. Like Jalen Sugg's ability to play free safety off of him has been so disruptive. It's why they can't enter the ball to Jail and Duren when they switch every kid during pick and roll. And like I love Asar.

I love the high drama of the rebounds he's pulling down in the series is unbelievable. Like he's making plays that other people can't make. But he's also forcing everyone around him to have to make similarly. exceptional plays basically all the time. He's astonishing to watch when he gets up there. But yeah, I mean, look, this is a Detroit nightmare scenario and one that like was not altogether surprising in that they don't have enough secondary creation. They don't have enough shooting.

And they have very stark tradeoffs on their roster to wit their offense looks just way looser and better when Duncan, Robinson is the one running off those empty side pin downs and just involved over here on the other side of the floor drawing attention. And the magic are hunting him so relentlessly. And I thought hunted him in very smart ways last night, smarter, like more precise than it had been in the previous three games, that J.B. Biggerstaff was like, I just have to take you off the floor and go with Caris Lavert, who's a better defender, but not in the same universe as a shooter. And then Caris Lavert came out. They hunted Caris Lavert too. They're like, all right, if that's

the weakest link wall on him. Then they brought Dennis Jenkins in and they just, this is what we all feared about Detroit is that they can't decide who to play down the stretch and the offense, defense, tradeoffs are so stark. But I agree with you. Like they just have to,

it's hard, man. The magic are a big, nasty physical team and they're, if they're slowing everything Detroit wants to do down. It's hard, it's hard for them to execute anything. They just need to introduce a little bit more dynamism into things.

I thought in game, in game, in game three when they hunted, you know, game two rather. I thought they'd been better at like hunting Desmond Bain and hunting Palo Bay and Carol, like Cade doesn't, you don't have to stop when they switch the first pick and roll

and Wendell Carter Jr. is on you and you can't enter the ball to Duren because there's a swarm on him. You can go find another matchup. You can run a second pick and roll. Like you just got to keep it moving a little bit more. And it's just, but it's hard to keep it moving when everyone on the other team is giant and really engaged on defense.

Very much so. I do wonder if there might be like a little avenue if Franz ends up missing actual games in this series and not just having to sit at the end of this one. With all due respect to Jamal Kane, who I thought did a really good job on Kate Cunningham in particular. But Franz is easily their best defensive option against Cade in terms of the size and activity he provides.

He also does something really important, which is as Detroit is trying to get into these like, okay, we're going to run a couple of layered pick and rolls to create that open side action. sometimes they have to switch their way through it and Franz's ability to guard a Jalen Duren is just totally different than what you're getting from Kane. And so it's like, you know,

Wendell can kind of like hang on Cade with help for moments at a time. And Franz can hang in the middle, middle with a big if you need him in that situation. Everything just gets a little more difficult if you don't have his size in particular in the mix. And so I wonder with enough of this misdirection if Detroit might actually be able to mix him inroads that way. I wouldn't write Detroit out of this series

yet. I think that's premature. They have home court. They're shooting 27% on threes, which they're not a good shooting team, but you figure they do they have a game in another game in them when they shoot a they miss good looks last night. Tobias Harris missed a bunch of good looks. Duncan Robinson missed some really good looks, including one where Assar Thompson, to your point, made himself much more useful off the ball by setting a flare screen that got Duncan Robinson wide open. And like, that's the kind of stuff that Detroit's going to have to do more in addition to just like slipping to the rim even harder. There was a point in game too where Duren like stopped even setting screens. Like he would come into the area where he would set a screen and then sprint out of it to the

rim and they found him a couple of times and then he found a Sart Thompson a couple of times. Like they just need a little bit more of that and they have it, they haven't in him and their defense has been like awesome. Detroit's defense has been legitimately awesome in the series. interesting subplot to this. What does Detroit do in the off season if they lose this series to address the shortcomings that we all worried about that have come to fruition? Well, obviously, be a big storyline. You know, I think, I don't know, they've made the parallel. Someone has made the parallel, maybe Bill, to Oklahoma City.

Like, let's get a taste of the playoffs first. And then, okay, giddy, it didn't work. Let's make the move. Now, Detroit is not where Oklahoma City was as a team and as a core. But if that's the parallel, then, okay, you've learned a lesson. You do have to do something. You have to do your version of that, whatever that is. And that's interesting.

And Jalen Duren is going to make all. I don't think this has ever happened before in the history of the Supermax rule. He's going to make all NBA. I would be very surprised if he doesn't. The voting is closed. The ballots are in. finalists are being announced. He's going to make all NBA

and be eligible for up to 30% of the cap instead of 25% of the cap. I'm not sure we've had a player in this age cohort, like the restricted free agency guys, not the veteran guys, who become eligible for the Supermax

and their team is like, we don't even want to offer you the regular max. Like, can we, like, it's going to be a very interesting negotiation because he's had a nightmarish series. Oh, my God. Just absolutely nightmarish. Once they took away his rolls to the rim,

he has not been able to figure out any other way to really get involved. He doesn't have any in-between game that doesn't rely on just like brute strength, being able to power through people. And Wendell Carter's not having that. And the pistons don't have enough space for him to create any momentum actually going to the basket when he tries to, like, catch and face up and attack. And so then you end up with these possessions where he, like, tries to attack Wendell Carter and can't even get the ball out of his hands before it's blocked out of bounds.

I'm still betting on Jalen Duren, and I feel like pretty good about the future of his game. He's super young. He's not there yet. But you can see like the germs of a mid-range jumper, the germs of an off-the-dribble game that could be more interesting and a little bit more dynamic.

He's very young. He's super young. Look, I don't want to give him a supermax contract. I think that could really burden the books in a way that could be counterproductive for the Pistons. But he's still a guy I feel good about despite everything that's happening in the series. And frankly,

if it was any team other than Orlando, I just don't think this would be happening on quite the same level. It's interesting that Ron Holland is out of the rotation. They've just concluded we can't play another non-shooter. I've always liked Marcus Sasser. He just never seems to get any traction. And Herder will, you know,

Herder, one of Herder or Lavert gets the, you play the first half and then not the second half treatment every one of these games. Someone throughout the idea of like, should they trade for Zach Levine in the offseason? I don't mind that. You don't mind that? I mean, he only has one of your left on his contract.

That would be the argument. Well, I am historically like a, we can fix him, Zach Levine guy. So like I'm just waiting for him to end up on a team with real defensive infrastructure and actual playmaking. And lo and behold, the Detroit business do have those things. Yeah, I mean, they didn't do much of anything at the trade line other than the herd or trade.

And we knew that was kind of small potatoes compared to the last. Lowry Markin and dreams we all had at the beginning of the season. But the time will come for them. But I wouldn't count them out of this series yet. Any closing thoughts on this series where no one has really covered themselves in closing. Like Ben Carroll was four of 18 last night. It felt like he was bullying and he got a lot of free throws. But like, man, it's not, it's not, no one is really making a lot of baskets.

No one's making a lot of baskets. But in lieu of that, I will take the beef stew block parade. And especially Isaiah Stewart, there just is not a more dramatic shot blocker out there because he literally has to hurl himself into the air to contest these shots in a way that makes me scared for his physical health on a moment-to-moment basis, but boy, is it fun to watch. Okay. Also, the winner of this series will face the winner of Toronto Cleveland. That series is two, too. The human brain is vulnerable to dumb things. I feel, I picked Cleveland in seven, so I thought that this would be a tough series for them. The way they won the first two

games felt to me like, okay, it's just cabs in five. Like you're the kind of team that goes to Toronto and gets one. Yep. And they didn't get one. Game three was not particularly close. And game four, they had. And then a series of events took place that included an eighth second violation, a bizarreo Donovan Mitchell attempt at the end of the game that was perfectly defended

by Colin Murray Bowles. Thank God the rest did not call a cheap, stupid foul. Well, let me ask you this before we zoom past that. in terms of implosive moments of these playoffs, which to you is the most embarrassing? It's not close. It's not close. So, Houston more than this particular stretch from the Cavs

in which a veteran team lost his collective mind or like that five-minute stretch from the Pistons in which they literally could not hit a single shot? Yeah, we have three very good candidates. And the nominees are Tobias Harris, Dennis Jenkins, and Cade Cunningham for missing 17 open looks. Jabari Smith Jr. and Reed Shepard for meltdown

turnovers. Good Lord. And it would just be, this would just be called the James Hardin Award for Playoff Meltos. And for the seventh three year, James Hardin and his team for, but what else happened? Let me think about there was the eighth second violation. Hardin and Mitchell missed threes. Yes.

Like one possession where Evan Mobley got a bunch of offensive rebounds. What else happened? I believe there was a Miss Donovan Mitchell runner that's like a normal playoff shot for him. But it was like, I think. it was the it was the turnovers and really in particular that Jamal shed Dion Sanders like lay out eight second violation that I know I know there have been great dunks I know there have been great shots honestly might just be the coolest single play of the postseason so far how about the two plays earlier in the game that I will always remember donovan

Mitchell intentionally fouling Scotty Barnes at the end of the third was it the third quarter I think it was the like I in to do I it was obviously a mistake like the rest of the players on the team were like, what the fuck did you just do? They were in the bonus, right? Scottie Barnes is an 80% free throw shooter this season. He only made one of two, I think. There was that. And then the James Harden one where he, like, lost his balance at half court and just

fell backward. Like, he looked like a gymnast falling off a balance beam and just mid, mid-routine being like, I guess I'm falling off and there's nothing I can do about it. And it was a back-court. And he looked at the ref, like, you're just not going to bail me out with a foul. This is going to be a back-court violation. This series is a dismal offensive series for both teams. And Cleveland, to be 2-2, after winning the first two games,

with Toronto having not had Emmanuel quickly for the entire series. Nope. I think this qualifies as a crisis moment for the Cavs, who traded a 26-year-old All-Star Point Guard for a 36-year-old, all-star point guard with a checkered postseason track record. and find themselves in a dog fight with a team that, I mean, Toronto's good and they're presenting a lot of problems. But so let's just start here. Yeah.

How can the Cavs loosen up their offense a little bit more? Because right now their entire offense is Hardin and Mitchell trying to hunt Brandon Ingram and R.J. Barrett and like mostly taking step back jump shots while Evan Mobley and Jared Allen have done like nothing. offensively in the series? I don't know an answer to this question that does not involve Evan Mobley and Jared Allen just being dramatically better through some form or another. And you can do that schematically. And we saw moments where like,

okay, we're going to go to Evan Mobley against this very targeted mismatch and see what he's capable of. That kind of had diminishing returns. The persistent allowance that Yacca Purdle is just going to be allowed to kind of switch around and be on the floor in this series feels like a real missed opportunity for Cleveland. like they were so good going at him and I understand there's places

you can hide them on the floor that make that more difficult but really you just can't be in a space where the raptors are getting more shots at the rim more defensive rebounds more offensive rebounds in the series like that's inexcusable

because once you kind of like body out the Cavs Bigs and challenge the Cavs ball movement this is a team that does kind of implode and adding James Hardin clearly doesn't really change that the Cavs have taken 51 more threes than the Raptors through four games and are in a two two series. Over the last three games, they're shooting like 29.6% on those threes because a lot of

it's just like Mitchell and Hardin at the end of the clock or early in the clock trying to bail out of possession that's not going anywhere. To your point, in the regular season, 30% of the Cavs three point attempts were pull-up threes, we're off to dribble threes. And that number stayed more or less the same when they got hardened. In the playoffs, 41% of their threes are pull-up. threes. Their assist rate, the percentage of baskets that are produced via assist has dropped from 65% in the regular season, which was around the league average, to 54% in this series, which is last in the playoffs. The Raptor is through switching, through doubling, through

varying up their defense, through putting Scotty Barnes on either Hardin or Mitchell almost every second that Scotty Barnes is on the floor and just denying them the ball. And I do think there are ways that now that Cleveland really knows that he's going to be, you know, top locking, like playing on top of Donovan Mitchell, they tried to use him as a backdoor cutter to use that against Scotty Barnes and Scottie Barnes. It's like, cool, you can cut back door. I'm just going to block a shot at the end. I would like to see, like, use Donovan Mitchell as a screener a little bit more because then you

can screen Scotty Barnes and another Raptors defender at the same time. So there are some levers that they can pull, but their offense is just completely stuck in mud. and it's just you can't subsist on pull-up threes. And the Raptors are not just giving them the Ingram and Barrett matchups. They're sending hard doubles. Sometimes they're hedging and recovering. They're mixing it up.

But to your point about Pertil, they are guarding at the start of these halves, Mobley and Allen, respectively, this all-star front court with R.J. Barrett and Yacca Pertil. Yep. And it's like, Jared Allen can't post up R.J.

Barrett. We can't get one deep seal of RJ Barrett. And then Evan Mobley, like, discovered at the beginning of the second half on two possessions, like, oh, Yaka Perl is guarding me. Like, maybe I should try to ISO him and score. Then they just never did that again because they switched the matchups and put Pertil elsewhere and Barrett on Moble. It's like, you can't post up RJ Barrett. But like, you can't run pick and rolls at whoever Pertil is guarding and get like, get regular defensive rotations happening and get lobs. Like, you just can't do any of these things. I don't understand. And not just you can't do them. You should do them every possession that he's on the floor.

Like, Yacca Pertl has shown you on tape, on the court, he cannot handle this pick and roll coverage. Like he is not equipped to step up to the level that you need to contain James Hardin and Donovan Mitchell. And yet he's just kind of like hanging out, being able to make impact plays, even in the capacity that he was, when it looked like he was on the verge of being played out of this series.

I think that the Cavs are just at, I mean, I think you identified it with the crisis point, not just existentially, but even when you just think about who they want to be in these games. And the reason you hear from coaches and players as to why they don't do things like post-up geronality against R.J. Barrett is like, it's not who we are. It's going to take us out of the flow of what we do.

It's going to be like a distraction almost from the game-planned objectives of our team. The game-planned objectives of your team are fucked. Like your offense is terrible right now. Deviate. Please do deviate. Like they need to be digging into alternative options that don't look like traditional cavaliers basketball, but fit the needs of what the series demands. Also, Jared Allen can do that.

And that is part of your game plan. When you're actually playing well, Jared Allen's had a lot of big scoring games. And it wasn't all just James Harden lobs and pocket passes in the pick and roll. He can duck in and get post-ups against smaller guys. They just feel a little rickety right now. And I would expect him to win game five at home. But I don't, I think this is going to be a close series.

and it just makes me a little nervous that they seem a little uncertain about who to play and when. So Allen and Mowgli have only played 51 minutes together in four games. So they're averaging 12 minutes a game. Mitchell and Hardin have played 89 minutes together in four games. So they're playing together much more. So they have obviously much more trust than the two guards together than the two bigs. The Mowgli solo minutes have been awful. They're minus 21.

The Allen solo minutes have been good. They're plus 17. And then you have the, the Sam Merrill minutes were massive at the end of that game because they finally found a way to get him looks and they finally discovered a guy that could screen for Mitchell and Hardin. And the Raptors were scared to either double off of him or hard hedge and try to recover to him because he's such a good shooter.

And they didn't make him pay him. the price defensively and he held up fine against Ingram. I just wonder like, you know, can they replicate that Merrill game again? If not, can they get it from Struz? I liked when they briefly had Strues Wade and Tyson out altogether. Like there's a lot of ranginess in that lineup, but just they can't figure out when to play the two bigs and who the other guy, the wing guys on the court should be.

But it's interesting. Especially because the Raptors are a good defensive team and a really active defensive team. but they're not unimpeachable. We saw all throughout the regular season times in which they would go completely overboard selling out for turnovers. Their positioning would be all over the place that weren't connected

in the way that great, great, great defenses are connected. But you have to give them something to chase in order to throw them off kilter like that. I think that's part of the reason why not just Sam Merrill hitting shots, but that gravity was so important. Just like literally a distraction from the simplest execution of their offense,

I think can pry some things lose for Cleveland. If they lose this series, and Detroit loses their series, I think it's like a far bigger disaster for the Cavs than it is for the Pistons, just based on the track record of this roster and the playoffs. Yep. The asset cost of upgrading 10 years and age

to get James Harden. Like Detroit, look, I can swallow this if that's what it ends up being. It's a young team and we're still figuring out what we have in some of our young guys. If Cleveland loses to the Raptors in the first round, anything to me is on the table, like literally anything. It just it would be an intolerable result. Toronto's offense is not like lighting it up.

Is there anything you think they can do to loosen up? I mean, this is a team that doesn't shoot three is very well. And beyond the issues, like anything else they can do other than like Colin Murray Boyles is unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, he is genuinely unbelievable. I mean, they don't really have the personnel to move around a lot of things offensively, especially without quickly. Like they're already jammed in terms of ball handling. I don't really see a lot of avenues there.

Are you seeing any, like, obvious levers for them to pull? No, I mean, other than their best offense in a lot of their, in a lot of game four was just Scotty sprinting up the court as fast as possible. Yeah. And just, um, and hope. It's sick, by the way. It worked really, really well. And hoping no one is paying attention. Like, uh, and I, I am a little surprised that they haven't been able to like, um, have Scotty punish Hardin and Mitchell a little bit more. Uh, but they just haven't been able to get those switches because the, the calves are helping, away from all the shooters that they don't worry about.

And the capture probably help even more. That's another thing the Raptors that they think like an extra step away from all the shooters you don't trust into the paint. Yeah, this Game 5 is a really exciting. It's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be an attractive watch, but it's very exciting. All right. Let's take.

Do you think if you had to guess Game 5, do you think we get closer to the Raptors have both the single game high watermark for three point percentage in these playoffs and the single lowest one? that's 61% and 13%. Do we get closer to a hot Raptors game or a cold Raptors game? I'm going to go a cold Raptors game, but normal cold, like 31% or 29%. And then it's a winnable game. I mean, a 13% is a winnable game, apparently.

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Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Details at jdpower.com. All right, let's bid farewell to the Phoenix Suns who got swept out of the playoffs by the Thunder, not unexpected at all. Really feel good season for the Suns. Culture reset, a lot of tough, hard playing dudes, one more games than reasonably expected.

And just a fun watch all the way around. round. Here's where we are with them going into the offseason. They are right at the salary cap without any money for Colin Gillespie, who I think they would love to bring back. Definitely. Or Mark Williams, who, I don't, that didn't really, after a nice start to the season, it's kind of not looking great. I don't think he's going to have much of a market in, like, I don't think anyone is rolling out the brink truck and restricted free agency for Mark Williams, but they traded too likely bad first round picks for him, but something. And Dylan Brooks is extension eligible.

I think they would like to get something done with him. I mean, they just don't, I don't know where the optionality is for them. They don't have a lot of, they don't control their pick until 2032. They do have a pick in 2027. It's the worst of a whole bunch of teams. But they don't control their pick for a long, long time. model watch could be interesting. Yeah.

I like Fleming. I was a little surprised you didn't play at all in the series until garbage time. I don't know. What's the roadmap for this team, Rob? Is this just like, are they just stuck in sort of, all right, we're going to be like a decent team with Devin Booker and like in the same conference as these other teams.

That's probably what we're going to be. Sadly, I think so. For his, I think you're spot on. This is a super fun season to watch and a really impressive one in a bunch of different ways. And maybe one of the signature like, breakout takeaways is like Jordan Otkin really coach.

Like that was a really good hire for them. But short of that, there's not a lot of high-end talent just kind of waiting to pop. Malawadj, I agree, has had really nice moments. I'm not even sure he's going to be like a good, productive winning player next season necessarily. He looks so raw even still. Jalen Green is just like so definitively not that guy.

And so the roster they have is kind of the roster they have. There's going to be incremental progress from, you know, your Osso Godaros and guys like that. But overall, I just don't see what the launch pad is here in terms of how the Suns get dramatically better than this. Like, they already kind of overachieved relative to what they have. And the cute underdog plucky story plays a little bit differently when you pay Mark Williams and you pay Conglisbee and now you're a luxury tax team. I'm not sure they're going to have to pay Mark Williams that much with apologies to Mark Williams agents. I think, look, if the lottery rules are changed to the point that being in the middle is a little bit more profitable, I think Suns fans would happily accept, look, we dug.

We dug a deep, deep hole with the Durant trade. And it's going to be very hard for us to make any kind of massive impactful move that vaults us up to the top top in our conference, which is just too good. But if we're a competitive fun team and we maybe get lucky in the lottery one year, not number one, but maybe we move up a little bit, whatever it is. And Fleming pops, that's not a terrible outcome. But to your point, like Ryan Dunn basically couldn't play in this series. I think he's all right, but they didn't play him.

And I thought Bradley Beal was really productive off the bench, making $19 million a year for the next four years. He gave them something like a little Geneseecois, qua, you know, like something a little indefinable, but I think it was really important. I like a Godoro. The interesting, what is Jalen Green. 36 million next year, 36 million player option in 27, 28,

also extension eligible, I would be just based on no intel at all, I would be pretty surprised if he had an extension for Dilling Green. Weird season did not play much in the regular season because of injury. He averaged 18 points a game on 42% shooting, 31% on 3. Play in which disappears from the record and doesn't count. Apparently he was great. And then in the playoffs, 22 a game, three assists, three turnovers, almost an exactly even assist in turnover ratio, a 39% shooting, 21% on three. I don't know. I don't, I don't, it seems like just a mulligan of his season, but every game that he plays,

I thought he, I thought his defense and activity was a little tougher and a little bit more on point. Maybe you disagree than it has been in the past. I think that's fair. But every time he has a good game, it just feels like he's just making the same hard shots that he's just normally not going to make this many of it. And I don't really know what to do with him at the time. this point. I feel like I do know what to do with him and it's I would not feel trusting the future

of my team to a construction where he is a critical part of it. Like he's entered into that zone of player where the more you rely on on Jalen Green, the worst off your team is ultimately going to be. So he's fine for now. He's certainly productive in the capacity that he plays. I'm with you that he's had moments certainly not just like breakout productive playing games, for example, but even kind of micro moments within them of exercising some demons of like this. is the guy who, you know, when the Rockets were playing the Warriors, like, couldn't break down Steph Curry one on one to save his life in critical games. And all of a sudden, he's having some of those kind of like opportunities again. And he's making the most of the thing that he kind of

struggled with last time around. I just don't trust the larger body of work. I don't trust the decision in making. I just think he's a guy who scores a little bit, and that's nice, but ultimately doesn't give you a lot else to his game. And if we're talking about like slight upticks on defense as the saving grace of his season, I just don't think that's enough. Yeah, I mean, look, to your point about trusting him as a cornerstone, you can't do that, which is why I would be shocked up to Sons. He offered him any kind of contract extension that he would ever accept. And then, you know, I just don't know what his trade value is at this point. And so maybe I just like, maybe this year is a Mulligan.

I'm happy of the glimpses of, oh, that was a, he, I can't remember which game it was. At one point in this series, maybe in one of the playing games, he made a pass on the pick and roll. that it was like he kept his dribble alive and made like kind of a wraparound pass to a big guy, but it was like really well-timed. And I was like, I don't think I've ever seen him make that pass before. And then you go five games without seeing a pass near that quality.

But he has these glimpses where if I'm the sons, I'm like, you know what? If he has not much trade value, let's roll it back next year and see what happens. I'm happy with how he's adapted to our culture. But yeah, I don't know what the roadmap is, except this was a fun team.

I enjoyed watching them. For sure. The sons like Dylan Brooks was a lot of fun. Just getting into fracas, a lot of fracuses. There's been a lot of fracuses in these playoffs so far. Every Nuggets World's game is going to have a fracas. It's not a curfuffle, you know, there's a lot of agitata in the air. Oh, what did you think of the, I haven't listened to group chat yet this week.

Have you addressed the Yokic going at McDaniel's Unwritten Rules thing? I mean, embarrassing. Like my general take is like, don't get blown out and you don't need to worry about. this stuff. So I'm glad that the Nuggets responded. I mean, for one, like, yeah, the crowd in Denver should absolutely boo James Daniels. And you should be able to taunt him as we, as we address with Christian Brown when the time is right. But what are we doing? Like, I don't think Yokic can play that game the way he did. And frankly, the Nuggets embarrassed themselves in the way they did and still have that moment at the end. Absolutely not.

I will once again, as I did on Sunday, throw all my praise to Mike Conley, who through the pass to Jada McDaniels when you did not have to throw the past at all. Yeah. And I think he knew. Yeah. I think he knew. Let's see what happens. See what I'm going to disturb the shit a little bit. I'm going to be a shit disturber. Let's see what happens here. He injured Chris Finch. Remember that? He was

the reason Chris Finch was on the little wheelie thing for a little while. You know, I'm just saying. He did have a quote. I saw that as after Jade McDaniels was getting booed every time he touched the ball in Denver. I saw he had a quote after the game. there's something to the effect of like whatever hate you felt there, you're going to get 100 times to love when we get back to Minnesota. And that's why Mike Conley's one of the goats. That's why he's the teammate that I would want.

Oh, and Jada McDaniels wants all of the smoke with everybody. He wants to fight everyone. He wants to get in. Everyone said, no, I'm with you. I just was like, I thought it was loser behavior by the nuggets to whine about it, by David Adelman, by Yokech, by everybody. It's a layup, man. He didn't dunk.

He didn't hot dog. He didn't showboat. He didn't take the ball from anybody. He didn't get a steal. he didn't, you know, he just, like, someone passed in the ball and he, like, gently laid the ball up and in. No one would have remembered it. No one, I don't think anyone really would have thought much about it

had they not made a big deal out of it. And Yokic made a big deal out of it. Okay, last thing. Very quickly, I said, let's each pick two winners and two losers from the playoffs so far. I'm in a good mood today, Rob. Why don't you pick a winner? I want to say first off the top,

we just did an extensive bit about the spurs as one of the definitive winners on group chat, just based on the way that the bracket is broken, the way they've played. I'm going to put them off to the side. That feels, it doesn't need to be said any further. I'm going to actually start with the Raptors,

regardless of what happens in the series, because I've just been so emboldened by Scotty Barnes and Colin Murray-Boy Boyles as ten pulls of what this franchise can be. And getting Scotty to show up in big game, big-wing fashion of, like, looking kind of unguardable at some particular moments in time, being one of the best defensive players in the world at the moment,

He feels like a tent pole guy that even when I was considering him for third team all-M-B, I wasn't quite sure where his career was going to net out. But him delivering in these games and Colin Murray Boyle's turning into not just an elite defensive prospect, which he has been from the second he stepped on an NBA court. But his confidence growth as a finisher from day one of the regular season to now needs to be studied in a lab. I don't understand what happened. This guy who wouldn't even take layups, he was so spooked of shot blockers.

And now he's going up against Evan Mowley, against Jared Allen, against all these guys, zero fear in his eyes whatsoever. And so if my franchise is banking on those two guys after what I've seen through these first four games, I feel really good about the future of the Raptors. Really exciting. Part of the reticence for him to shoot around the rim, which was like almost yipsy in terms of he would get the ball and be like, is he something going, is this like Rick Ankeel, but for a big man, he had a thumb injury that was messing with his mind, I think,

and that appears to you appears to be over that. But yeah, if you give him, he's doing the thing where, you know, Evan Mobley slides a little bit off of him to load up on somebody. And you pass it to Colmarie Boyles. And he's got a little bit of space to eat up and go into Evan Mobley. He's going into Evan Mobley and through him and through Jared Allen. It's been super impressive. All right, I'm going to pick a winner.

Let's see. I have a long list of potential winners. Jamal Mosley is a potential winner. Definitely. Tim Connolly and Rudy Gober are potential winners. I'm going to just go because we didn't talk about that much with Peyton Pritchard. who is just outrageously good. And is extension eligible in the offseason

because of the extension rules the most that the Celtics can offer him and it would not start until 20, 28, 29, I believe it's something like three years and $70 million. Would he even take that? It's a lot of money for a guy who isn't made that much money, but she has just been flat out awesome.

And when the Celtics have their four best guys on the floor, despite Derek White shooting, cratering a little bit. I trust Derek White. They're just blowing people away. And it doesn't even matter if the big guys, Kada or Garza or Voochovich and their center rotations make me a little bit nervous a little bit. There's a lot of Voochievich going on.

Can Kada stop fouling people every second that he's on the floor? It's not going to help to play against Jewel and Bede. No. There's just so much Vooch going on that I'm a little bit unnerved by that. But between Pritchard and Tatum being, outstanding, I will call them my winner's number one. Do you want to pick a loser now or do you want to pick a winner? I'll pick a loser. I'm going to circle back to the Rockets

who, again, even if they were to pull out this series, would have to just be a totally different team than the one that we've seen. And I would say it's the combination of the KD mess coming to a head. And that was his weird disappearance in the middle of this series. The fact that what that disappearance evokes, as far as the general state of the team, not great, the returns on all of these young players, I think some have had their moments.

There's been encouraging, again, like little signs from Reed or from Amen or from Jabari. But overall, you don't come out of the series thinking, like, this really is Ahmed Thompson's time, even though he's had some of those. And the offense overall has just been so putrid. Like, the Rockets have 70 more shot attempts in this series than the Lakers, and they're getting smoked.

I didn't even know that was possible. It just seems like a really hard thing to do, and I'm consistently impressed by, I guess, the way in which the rockets are losing as much as anything. I mean, last time I checked their offensive rebounding rate was like 44%. And it's hard to rebound that many misses and still have a horrible offense, and yet they are doing it.

There are interesting parallels, by the way, and this is a low-hanging fruit thing to make, but between the rockets and the pistons with the Thompson twins, just incorporating these unique talents who have just one massive glaring liability and happen to play on teams with very traditional paint-bound centers and what that does to each team on each timetable. So to your point about winners and losers,

I had Stefan Castle as one of my winners. And he doesn't shot it great from two, but he shot it well from three and just looked comfortable, like, oh, you're going to put your centers on me. No problem. I'm going to have a blast. This is going to be great. And I just the Castle Shepherd,

what if in that draft is just going to loom so large if the rockets get out of the next two seasons and discover like we're just not in the class of the thunder and the spurs. That pick at three and four is going to loom large. But for my

first loser, Kale Bridges is that TBD tonight? I'm going to pick the Bulls. Just, there's just ex-Bulls doing fun things all over the place, notably in Minnesota where they just decided like Hey, we have a good player.

You know what would be really smart? Not having him on our team. We'd be really smart. He's good. He's young. He's productive. Lots of teams are calling them about us. Why?

It's weird. Why is our phone ringing so much about I would assume to? What if instead of a really good player, you could have like four second round picks? Wouldn't that be a better outcome for you? Yeah, but four second round picks? Because there's all kinds of optionality of the draft. Like a package of it.

Okay, whatever. So I'll pick the Bulls as my first. So, wait, if you pick two winners and two losers already, are you out of things? I've done one and one, one winner, one loser. Pick a winner. Let me go back to a winner. LeBron James, you may have heard of him. Yeah.

A 41-year-old superstar is giving his team a chance to get right again to last long enough in the playoffs, four Reeves to get back for hopefully for Luca to get back. And like within that, giving himself a chance to make another run at this thing, where despite what LeBron's career would tell you, like, this is not an infinite resource. Like he only has so many playoff runs left. And the fact that this one, which just weeks ago looked like it might be dead in the water, could actually really mean something. I think it's just a tremendous turn of events.

Super impressive. Very fun to watch him. Just like Mark Jackson, Charles Barkley, how long are you going to let me back down? Like anyone on your team. Like Tar Heason, you're pretty strong. I'll back you down. I'm Ann Thompson. One in a million athlete.

I'll just put you under the basket. And a walking nightmare for Reid. Shepard, who against a lot of other teams could sort of exist against his own team, could sort of exist defensively, like, hiding over here. And he's not involved in that play. And like for 10 minutes, you don't notice that he's hiding over here. Against LeBron, it's just relentless. It's every single position. Oh, you're on Rui now. Let's do something with Rui. Oh, you're on Marcus Smart now. Let me screen for Marcus Smart. It's just absolutely relentless. And a nightmare. Reed Shepard must be going to bed just like, why, why? Of all the,

teams. Do you think LeBron gets any extra satisfaction out of hunting these like shadows of Steph Curry guards? Any guard who comes in with a jump shot is like, you know what? Like let's just, let's just bring him up not only because I can, but because I would really like to. I think it's just, I think his, his brain and it's like a muscle reflex at this point. Like I, this was four straight finals. This is like 50% of our offense was this. And I'm going to just, oh, I know, I remember how to do that. And now he's just older and meaner and it is more fun. All right, my second winner, you know, I've mentioned Tim Connolly, Scoot Henderson in a bad game. Paul George is on my list. I'm going to go with Robert Williams, Time Lord, who has been absolutely essential on both ends of

the floor to the Blazers to the point that there's a movement to start him over Donovan Klingan. Right. And he's just been outstanding. I also tip of the cap to Dave Pash, who was on play by play for their last game and obviously loves the nickname time lord because not only will he call him time lord he'll call him the lord of time he'll do that version too um he was a really good bench player all season he just wasn't available very much i just would love for him to have give me like a couple 60 game seasons because it's been a reminder that he's he's really good and really impactful i think for my last loser i have to take evan mowgli unfortunately um on my list I'm I lost.

Of all the questions that losing the series would raise, I think just like the indictments pointed at Mobley specifically as far as what mismatches he can't attack, just going these two games and shooting like 30-something percent from the field against an opponent like the Raptors, unforgivable for a big like him. At this point in his career, Evan Mobley should have a little bit more of a go-to game.

At this point in his career, he should be able to be at least a part-time five in lineups that makes sense. Neither one of those things has been true. He's just been completely bodied out of the series, completely worked out of this series. I'm a huge Evan Mobley booster, generally speaking, but I can't defend this. It was to the point when he got those two big offensive rebounds late in game four

that led to two misthrees for Cleveland. I was like, oh, Evan Mobley, you're asserting yourself after being on the bench for almost the entire fourth quarter because the Cavs have concluded that right now, Mowbly Allen, like the spacing is just not like you're hanging around the perimeter because there's no world for you to be and they're not guarding you

there and your three hasn't come around and I'm with you like, look, the record will show I never uttered the words Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan. That's sacrilegious. You shouldn't say those words

about any young big man and I never did. But I've been very high on Evan Mobley. I've kept all my Evan Mobley stock through all the unfavorable comparisons that were made. I still would be hesitant

to move him. But like this is, he is, about to turn 25 years old and just melts away in too many of these series where he shouldn't be melting away. He was on my list. Mikhail Bridges is too easy. I don't mean this in a bad way.

I'm going to go with Chris Vernon and all fans of the Memphis Grizzlies who had to tune into that magic Pistons game last night and see John Morant and Jared Jackson Jr. One guy who's gone, good trade return. like solid trade return, but like fun guy we all liked him. And one guy whose future with the franchise is tenuous to say the least, coming together in Orlando, Florida, to watch Desmond Bain, beloved Grizzly play basketball for the Orlando Magic. Team Morant was apparently there.

I'm not sure where Marcus Sol was or Tony Allen or Hamad Hadati. Oh, yeah. But also just to poke Christopher in a little bit, I will pick him as my other loser. I am enough of a sap that this worked for me. Like sports. Great. Teammates. They're great. It's nice to see men supporting other men emotionally and all of that.

I applaud all of it. So they were on my list of losers. All right, Rob Mahoney, what do we got next for you? We got group chat. We got prestige TV. What are we doing on our prestige TV besides the pit? I'm not going to watch the pin. Give me something else.

Well, rest assured, the pit is open. And I have just a show for you as a father yourself, Zach. How about euphoria? You know, like, let's really, let's really get into teenagers and now young adults behaving badly. I don't think I'm ready for that one. I don't think that one's going to be for me. All right, well, I'll give something else a shot then.

Just the playoffs, it is. But, yeah, honestly, like, we've reached a point of the first round where my brain at the end of every night is, like, just images are swimming around it and it's very mushy and it's like, why am I thinking about Mitchell Robinson right now and just we're at that point. So first round is just like a fever dream. Rob Mahoney, you're the best. Thank you, buddy. Thanks, Zach. Appreciate it. All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe show, barring something insane. We will be back as usual on Thursday morning. Thanks to the great Rob Mahoney for his time. Thanks as usual to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. Thanks to you all for

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