The Zach Lowe Show - Spurs Force Game 7! Game 6 Thoughts, Keys for Each Team, and More!

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Zach is joined by Kirk Goldsberry to break down the Spurs Game 6 victory over the Thunder. They discuss the trends of the series, what each team needs in Game 7, and how they expect the stars to play. Plus, they reveal what Mitchell Robinson’s broken pinkie means for the Knicks and who they should want to play in the Finals. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (2:17) Kirk Goldsberry joins the show! (5:24) The Spurs have shown their youth doesn’t matter (13:40) SGA's last 4 games have been his worst as a star (19:23) Is it time for an OKC lineup change? (30:49) The Thunder need more from Chet Holmgren (36:25) Who should the Knicks be rooting for? (46:02) Quick lottery thoughts Host: Zach Lowe Guest: Kirk Goldsberry Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy Gil Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up on the Zach Lowe show, we got a special Friday show. Why? Game 7 is happening in the Western Conference finals. The San Antonio Spurs blew out Oklahoma City last night in game 6 in San Antonio. Everyone gets an off day to travel, or I guess the travel probably already happened for them last night. Back to Oklahoma City for the most eagerly anticipated game of the year so far. Game 7, Spurs, Thunder. Last four have been double-digit wins.

Game two was a nine-point win for the. Thunder. I want a classic. I'm getting greedy. Enough double-digit wins. Let's have a classic. It's game seven. It's Shea versus Victor. It's the MVP versus the unsolvable riddle. We got J-dub back into the series. Did not look great. We'll talk about whether he even plays in game seven. Deerrant Fox working his way back. Dylan Harper had a huge game, just a really fun series, but let's hope that we get a classic and waiting in the wings. The New York Knicks. Kirk Goldsbury is here. He was at game six. He's going to tell us about the atmosphere. in San Antonio.

We're going to talk about what happened in that game, what the big trends in the series through six games have been, what adjustments we might see for game seven, even maybe a starting lineup change. And who should the Knicks want to win? Should they even care? We kind of look a little bit at how the Knicks match up with both teams, and then we discuss Mitchell Robinson's broken pinky finger,

potentially a big deal. Quick takes on lottery reform, which expectedly passed the Board of Governors on Thursday, all coming up after this on The Zach Lowe Show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fandul. The conference finals are here. Think you know how it'll go down? Take your shot with Fandul and get closer to the action.

Fanduil is the best place to bet the teams, the players, and plays during the NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip-off. Download the Fandul's sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 or over in President's Select States, 18 or over in D.C., Kentucky, Maryland, Gambling Problem, call 1-800 gambler. Call 1-88-7-8-9-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the bonus Zach Lowe Show and bonus because we are going to game seven in the Western Conference Finals. We made it.

We're getting a winner-take all game seven. The first game seven, the West, has offered us so far in the playoffs this year, I believe, after the Spurs blew the doors off the Oklahoma City Thunder in game six in San Antonio, fourth straight double-digit outcome in this series, and though game two was a nine-point outcome. So we haven't had a thriller since the all-time epic game one. I tried to speak a thriller into existence for game six. Didn't work.

I did predict the Spurs win. I thought it was going to be close. It was not close. I'm going to try to speak a thriller into existence for game seven because we all need it. And the Knicks, the New York Knicks, just waiting, watching, do they even care? The biggest story coming out of there is Mitchell Robinson's broken pinky finger and his potential availability for the finals, which is a huge, huge deal for the Knicks. We'll talk about that.

Kirk Goldsbury, you were at Game 6 in San Antonio last night. What are you going to remember from the atmosphere, from the conversations after, from whatever? Yeah, this young team keeps answering the bell. I didn't know what I was going to get going down there. I have such a great respect for OKC. The vibes in San Antonio are always reliable that showed the nuns on the Jumbotron. Coincidentally or not, that sparked a massive third quarter run. But for me, in all seriousness, like this is a team that's too young to be putting up this kind of fight.

So they get beat real good up there in Oklahoma in Game 5. You don't know what you're going to get from these guys. And they come and they answer the bell. So all playoffs long, Zach Lowe, this team has responded to losses against. Portland losses against Minnesota and now losses against the defending champs. And they did it again last night. So I'm just struck again by how young these dudes are, but then how sort of ready they are to make these responses. And they did it again last night.

It's interesting how the narratives flip game to game. So game five, they lose in Oklahoma City, a game that was there for them to at least make close in the fourth quarter. And they couldn't do it. They committed a bunch of dumb fouls. and the whole like, well, this is the experience. This is the experience factor we've all been talking about. They're too young, the thunder of the experience edge. And then in game six, season on the line,

when Bucke comes to the game dressed as a freaking monk, and they blow the hell out of the thunder and force game seven. And so if they lose game seven and a couple of their young guys have, you know, shaky shooting performances, and the thunder role players who have struggled to shoot from three, the entire series, we'll talk about Dort and whether he should even start game seven in a second. have an outlier shooting game.

Will the narrative flip back to, well, look, the experience carried the day in the end? Or like this team of young guys in Deerrin, Fox, and Harrison Barnes and a little Luke Cornett has taken the thunder to Game 7 of the conference finals, is the experience thing just over? Have the Spurs debunked it? Or is Game 7 going to be sort of stupidly, narratively determinative? Because to me, if you get to Game 7 and you win a game like that with your backs against the wall, I kind of think you've already proven you're pretty much ready

to win the championship. Game 7 is a coin flip, whatever. Yeah, I think so. I think this team, they've proven a lot. And if you talk to any fan, anybody around this organization, a coach, even a player, if you say, hey, back in October, we're going to have game 7 in Oklahoma City

to go to the finals. They would have been like, let's go. Where do I sign? This is beyond expectation. This team has had a first playoff run that is just incredible. And the conventional wisdom, you've said it, I've said it for the last few months. As a team usually has to take their lumps,

Bill has said it. And maybe they will. And I think that's what Game 7 is really about, right? Are they going to be the first team in a very long time to just go from, hey, we've never been in the playoffs to now we're in the finals? Or are they going to have one of these teaching moments that a lot of these young teams have? Either way, though, Zach, to your point, they've already done a lot.

They're playing with house money. to some extent. I know the players and coaches don't want to think like that, but when we look back at what we were talking about with this group in October, I think that is

where we're at with them. I mean, I guess we'll see in Game 7, but one thing's clear. Like, and this has been clear for months now, the idea that they're doing something dramatic to mess with this core to chase the star is like so far long gone. Like this, these three guys,

Harper, who was sensational last night, jumpers, forceful takes to the rim, changed the entire game after a couple of quiet games. Castle, who I bet he's not going to be talked about that much today in the wake of game six. Just a calm, chill, 17, 9, and 5 with one turnover. By the way, the reason this thing is going 7

is that the Spurs after a catastrophically bad game 1 and 2 turnover-wise and we know you can't turn the ball over against the Thunder and hope to win. They have five fewer turnovers than the Thunder, game three to game six. Credit their guards for chilling out a little bit. And then Wemby, of course, 28, 10, and 2. And for all the talk of like, well, he's got to get to the room. He's got to get to the interior.

He's got to get to the jumpers. It was never going to be just that because the modern game for all, but maybe like two guys just doesn't work like throw it into the post and let him attack. and Wemby is big and tall and skinny and it's not going to work like that. It's always going to be a mix of outside and inside. His threes are going to have to fall here and there for the Spurs to win. They fell last night, four of nine announced himself right. He had three in the first six minutes of the game.

And then the rolls to the rim started, the isolation attacks where he was clearly focused on like, can I get one extra step, one extra reach, one extra pivot to the rim came. Just an awesome performance by the Spurs. And then, you know, the Thunder, the Spurs are not plus 18 for the series, total points. Thunder's offensive efficiency for the series is 107 points per 100 possessions. That would have ranked last in the regular season. More than ever regular season versus playoffs is like apples to broccoli, basically. But still, it's not great.

And J. Dub, who looms is a huge X-Factor if the Thunder win this series and go to the finals against the Nix. because the way they match up, we'll talk a little bit about that later, was a complete non-factor in trying to gut out his return from a hamstring injury. We'll see if he even plays in game seven. AJ Mitchell did not play. We have not really heard a whisper about his potential availability. And Shay Gilders-Alexander,

yeah, six of 18, 15 points. Can we just, can we, before we move on to the actual series, can we just put the 20-point game streak to bed? Like, I just don't care anymore because it doesn't carry over into the postseason. And these post-season games don't count, I guess. But anyway, he's just facing a riddle that he hasn't been able to solve. And I think for the Thunder to win game seven at home, they're going to need at least one of the following three things to happen

and probably two of the following three things to happen. number one, Shea is going to have to have a decent efficiency game, decent to good efficiency game. And we just, he's shooting 37% I think for the series.

38%, 26% on threes. And you see it, Kirk, it's just, it's a really hard riddle for him because the spurs have elite one-on-one defenders across the board. And he,

he knows that if I get by that guy, or even if I don't get by that guy, I know who's looming. once I get into the paint, the alien. And so he's taking just a ton of tough mid-range shots that are one-on-one designed to just be shots that get off before. Like, I just got to shoot before Wembe comes into the play. And he can't, like, Vassell's a good one-on-one defender.

Obviously, Castle, Harper, Bryant. You know, Fox is the one I would go out a little bit more, maybe Calvin Johnson. But even so, if Wemby's on the floor, it's just a riddle. He's not been able to solve. So that's one. number two, they were 10 of 40 from three last night. And it just feels like it doesn't feel like Shay. Now, Shea could come out and score 35 in game seven, I wouldn't be surprised.

But it feels like the more likely thing of these variables that flips the Thunderway is he starts spraying the ball out and they make more threes. And so that's variable number two. They were 10 of 40 last night that did not make enough threes. And variable number three is the turnovers. And that's the ultimate solution for Oklahoma City to this half court defense that they can't solve is. Do they have one more game in them where they force 19 turnovers and get out on the break before that defense can set? I think the spurs are so good. I think the Thunder need two of those three things to happen.

And it feels after six games like a Shea explosion is almost like the least likely of those three things to happen. But that's how good the spurs are. I mean, I don't think Shea has a magic formula to solve what the spurs are doing to him now that they've stopped trapping him at half court. I mean, you hit on all the things. I have notes on all of them. The turnovers for the spurs just quickly, a lot of that has to do with, not Emmanuel quickly,

but just quickly, Deerrin Fox coming back. And the, the turnovers that Castle had, just the nightmarish numbers we saw. A lot of that had to do with him being asked to do too much, and a lot of the eyeballs of that Thunder defense just locking in on that young man.

As soon as Deeran comes back, Dylan Harper's bouncing around again, they can't just be as laser-focused on him. but he's also done a good job of taking. But that's a great point of something that has changed. That's that you polled about the turnover differential since, I would say since Deere and Fox returned to the series in game three. That's a really big point because when you look at the splits in this series,

and I don't usually look at splits, but there's six games now, and we can start to tell a story here. And to the point about the turnovers, the single biggest differential, the variance in this series is all on one end of the Cors, It's all on the thunder end when they have the ball. They are scoring 124 points in their wins and 96 points in their losses. The spurs are pretty good for 112, 113, 114, 114, 113, whatever that is. But the variance there, and what is, that's why am I bringing that up now?

Turnovers are the lifeblood of this team. And we've said it for years. Bill coined the concept like, hey, man, this is the first defense I really remember. they can go on a run by itself. They get a turnover. They turn into a bucket. They get a turnover. If you can control the turnovers and the chaos against the thunder when you have the

basketball, that really reduces their ability to score on the other end. So I think what you pointed out in the first part of that thing, the thunder absolutely need to get those turnovers in game seven. And the spurs, on the other hand, need to prevent it. I think the SGA stuff you called out is the biggest story right now. I mean, this is a guy that me, you, everybody else was saying was the best player in the world just coming into the playoffs. He gave us no reason to change that after the first two rounds. He is averaging, his last four games have been the worst four games of his sort of time as a superstar in this league.

He's averaging six buckets on 17 shots in the last four of these games. That's not good enough. And I went in, I was like, well, what's going on? The shot quality is way down. And why is a shot quality way down? Yeah, Stefan Castle, the Spurs defense, but what's not there? It's really a story of what's not there. He was averaging 9.2 layups and dunks in the regular season per game attempts.

That's down to 4.9 in this series. I wonder why. I wonder what's going on. Well, and that's what it is. Like, we can, the stocks and all the Wemby stats are great, but it's those kinds of metrics for the, for the dorks that just be like, yeah, Victor Womenyama is the most valuable player in the series. He changes everything. Yeah, Shea Gildjus Alexander, 9.2 layups and dunks during the regular season per 100.

That's 4.9. He's making 41% of them down from 67% of them in the regular season. They're taking away his bread and butter at the rim. And then the last thing I'll say, dude, and this is the red meat for the toxic Internet right now, by the way. The toxic Internet. Is there another Internet? Can I join that one? There was.

Wasn't there? It wasn't NBA Twitter briefly the non-toxic internet back? You know when the toxic internet took over from the non-toxic internet? Remember the hamsters that were like the dancing hamsters that were a huge meme and they had that funny high-pitched song that was playing? That I think was the end. Like that was non-toxic internet. And I don't know what happened to those hamsters if they all got hit by a car, but they're dead. and now it's a toxic internet.

Well, I'm going to flirt with the red meat for the toxic internet here. Shea had three free throws last night. He had 17 in game five. And again, that's a stat to watch. Are the thunder getting to the line? What did they have last night? And then I'll hand about to you. I think 11 or 12.

I think they were 11. Yeah, so that aggression on offense. And if you look at the splits, again, it's all, the things that keep coming up in my notes are on that thunder end of the courtsack. Well, you mentioned the rim shots, right? And that's the biggest change that's happened to Oklahoma City's offense in terms of its shot distribution is they've essentially traded a bunch of shots at the rim for a bunch of really hard jump shots. And like it sounds stupid, but part of that is also transition, right? Like that's where you get rim shots a lot of the time.

And so by taking care of the ball and Fox has not had a good series otherwise. And that's kind of what's a little scary for the Thunder is that Fox is averaging 10 points a game on 33% shooting. And a lot of his looks are like they look kind of like. the aaron fox looks slightly maybe more difficult because he's a little bit lacking in his usual explosion with the high ankle sprain but if he has a big game in him that changes things but all the easy buckets that you fatten up your efficiency on that turns a shaky jump shooting game into an efficient shay game they're just vaporized because of the rim defense and because the thunder are not getting their normal diet of transition shots you mentioned the free throws

I do want to say this. I think one of the sadder crowd moments of recent NBA history was the Thunder fans trying to throw out the flopper chant back at Wenbenyama? I was like, yeah, you know what, guys? I might just, I might bag that one. I don't know if I want to be a Thunder fan and start magnifying flopping as an issue in the series and trying to draw a false equivalence between my guys and Victor Wenbanyama.

They call that one. aboutism and political discourse. Speaking of the toxic internet, the what about is, what about your guy? And I'm like, no, this is,

you got, you got Namar over there. You got the king of this stuff over there. All due respect. But in reality, in the arena last night, there's a few moments where Shea hits the ground,

Caruso hits the ground. And you know, like Zach, you're just watching Zach Zarba. For better or for worse, we start to, are they going to is the whistle going to come and it didn't come uh so i think that's a bigger part of game seven too than i would like it to be uh who's going to be the official will those whistles

come when those dudes inevitably fall to the floor so you mentioned all the offensive stats for the thunder and the variation um i just brought up their game log on cleaning the glass which i meant to do last night and forgot their two worst offensive efficiency games of the entire season regular season and playoffs combined are games four and six of this series. One, two, three, four, five of their nine worst scoring efficiency games of the season are against the Spurs. So this is like, like just, we knew it was a thing in the regular season. We knew the playoffs would be a little bit different because everyone's more or less

available. The stakes are higher. Everyone's focused in playing their peak minutes and all that. But it is really sustained. Like the Spurs defense has strangled this offense and they're going to have to figure it out one time. And I don't even really know what the answer is other than they just are going to have to make more threes because I just either Shea's going to just make a bunch of miraculous

jump shots and have a great game or he's going to have an okay game or a bad efficiency game like he's had and the other guys are going to have to make shots. To wit, I do wonder if game seven is finally the time where we see a starting lineup change. Oof. Hartnstein and Holmgren are. minus 45 in 60 minutes. Wembe didn't play Hardinstein off the court, not by a long shot.

Hardinstein has actually become even more important as the series is going on. What he has played off the court is the Thunder's ability to play Hardinstein with any other big man because there's just not enough space on the floor. He's got to be the only big man on the floor or not, or just the Chet plus big Jalen Williams combo because both can shoot threes. Maybe they stick with it and start it again because I don't really, like you can't bring Chet off the bench and I don't think you can bring Hardin's line off the bench?

The move would be, can you just not play them with Dort? Dort is minus 54 in the series. That trio is minus 38 in just 38 minutes together. Dort is 4 of 22 on threes. He doesn't have an awesome defensive matchup in the series. That's been clear since you and I were podcasting on Christmas or the day after Christmas about this matchup.

And with J-dub looking limited, I don't know if you start him. I think you probably just have to start McCain and Kaysen Wallace or McCain and Caruso. But maybe they don't. Maybe they just say we're the Oklahoma City Thunder. We're champions. We're the best team in the league.

We have the best record in the league. New Dort is a homegrown cultural touchstone of our team. We're rolling with them. Roll players play better at home. And like, you know, you could get a game seven where he goes four of eight from three. And that role players play better at home. whole narrative shifts in one game.

I do, this is, this feels like the lineup change to make. Wouldn't surprise me if they just rolled with Dort, hopes he has a better three-point shooting game. I thought a lot of the threes he took last night were early clock, too long, atrocious shot selection. But that lineup, I mean,

they're getting boat raced at the start of every single game and playing from, from a whole. Yeah, and I think Lou Dort could have that Grant Williams game where everybody's just like, oh, man, I didn't, I didn't see Lou Dort hitting seven, three is to put the series away. That can definitely happen with a role player in a game seven. We've seen it, like I said, with Grant Williams. There's the Peter Principle concept here, too, with Lou Doort. And last night, I was sitting on Meteoroe, and I was talking to the guy next to me,

it's like, playmaker Lou Dort, not a great look. And why are we seeing, like, Lou try to make plays off the bounce act? It's because J-dub is limited. It's because A.J. is not out there. And I want to give some flowers just to the thunder depth, too, because, like, how many teams would even be going to a game seven on their side of this transaction without J-dub and without AJ? How many teams could survive? Whatever your favorite team is, take two of your four best players out of the rotation and then see if you can go hang with the spurs and the conference finals. Like, they are so impressive. And one of the other ways that depth shows up is like, even when Dagnall throws the proverbial white flag at the beginning of the fourth last night, I'm sitting there talking to Isaac from the ringer next to me. I'm like, is this their white flag lineup? Because it's like all these guys are good. Like even when they're down there, it's like, hey, there's still like really good NBA players out there. So they're surviving.

I do think the door, I think the starting lineup will stay the same. But the other name that I think we have to bring up is Chet Holmgren, who simply has been invisible for too many stretches in this series, particularly in a series with J.W. being so limited. And he hasn't been good enough. You mentioned that. Wembe obviously takes a lot of personal pride in reducing Chet Holmgren's efficiency. And God help anybody who he takes that sort of pride with.

But he was, you know, he shot the least amount of their starters last night. You had Shea take 18 shots. You had Jared McCain take 11. And then Dort and Hartenstein 11 and 10. So you'd like to see something more from chat, right? Well, I mean, and that's the thing you watch. You rewatch all the Shay Hartenstein pick and rolls when Wendby is playing manned defense against Hardinstein. And they're leading to a lot of floaters, which he's fantastic at the Hartnstein.

The Hardinstein push shot is a miracle of basketball. And a lot of three-point shots for Lou Dort or Chet Holmgren or whoever they want to shoot. And the spurs, Hardinstein can make five of six of those. They're not going to change the way they do. defend. Those are wins. They go in and that's great, but like the spurs are going to be happy and the aggregate with the shot diet that they're getting out of those plays. On Chet, I mean, look, let's not mince words. He's averaging 12 points a game. He's the fourth leading score on the Thunder in this series. The second and third leading scores are Alex Caruso and Jared

McCain. It's not even that he's shooting 27% from three. It's that he's taking 1.8 threes per game. I don't understand how he's unable to get any open looks or take any open looks. And I don't want to hear like, well, it's just a bad series for him. They're guarding him with wings. It's tough. He had that one play last night where he had that

really nice spin move, step through lefty layup against Vassell, where he kind of bullied Vesel, his version of bullying Vesel. He had a couple of those plays in game five, and he missed the layup, but Wembe had to come over and help and Hardinstein got a putback. It's like, in a series where

Lou Duh, is taking a thousand threes. I can't get a little bit more of that every game from you. And he's also started, and this is a very interesting push pull. He got a couple, a few putbacks last night or a few like offensive rebounds where he crashed pretty hard from the perimeter because he knows he has a sides advantage. And I think that's almost a sign of the thunder realizing like we're kind of desperate for points in the half court and we're actually willing to risk having a fourth guy crash

the offensive glass from the perimeter because we think he can get it and we think that's our best shot at offense but he has not done nearly enough and she it's going to be really interesting what happens on a micro and macro level if the spurs win game seven and shea has like another six of 18 game because i do think in a lot of corners and with some justification i don't some at least some justification it's going to make people rethink it's going to be a slight taint on what has otherwise been a pretty spotless rise to number one or number two in the NBA, two-time MVP. If he can't figure out this defense and they go down in seven to a team that is way ahead

of schedule, I do think it's going to change his perception around the league, at least a little bit, fair or unfair, and I think probably a little bit of both. I think there'll be some over-the-top unfair reaction and some, oh, well, it's all Wemby. It's not Shay's fault, and that will not be entirely true either. I do think a lot of it is he has come up, he has come up against a riddle that he just can't solve and his team can't solve. And a lot of it is just about Wembenyama, which makes the fallout of a Thunder loss more interesting than the fallout of a Spurs loss. The Spurs are going to spurs. They're young.

They're awesome. They have draft assets. They're not doing anything crazy. I do think, I have no idea how the Thunder would react to a game seven loss. People want to do fake Janus trades and this and that. That's against Sam Pressy's playbook. But I do think the way this is happening with the unsolvable riddle of the alien, with J. Dubbs, injury and ineffectiveness, with Chet's relative ineffectiveness,

with the financial crunch that is coming for a team that I think is going to be like $40 million over the second apron or something like that next year. I think they would have the highest tax bill in the history of the NBA. I do think it raises some interesting questions, but we're not there yet because they're at home for game seven. Home teams don't win game seven as often as they used to. I think it's two, two, and four game sevens all in the east this year. But those two guys with J-dub not really being super available in this series

are supposed to be the two best guys on the team. And Shea hasn't had a series up to his standards. And Chet is just like, I know it's tough, man. This is an elite defense, the second best defense. the league behind you guys. They have this alien that gives you fits. It really likes to embarrass you a little bit. I just got to get more.

Like, I can't have you taking fewer shots in Lou Dort. I can't have averaging fewer points again than like two reserve guards. I can't, it can't happen. Let me, that's such an excellent point on if the Spurs lose game seven, we got to get a better bench. We got these Cornette, Kelden Minutes have not been great. We've learned something. We're ahead of schedule, quote, unquote.

they're not changing it. The most stunning stat for me in this series when I looked it up this morning is in 222 minutes on the court this series, Shea Gilgis Alexander has a net rating of negative 7.6. And again, that is part of,

I looked out of today, and I think that's part of he's starting this game in a lineup that is not working. Now, part of it is him, but part of it is like that, That combination is just not working. Yeah, that ultimate caveat is like, yeah, dude, this is the Bulls without Pippin and Koo Coach.

Like, however you want to say, it's like, okay, don't forget. Jay Dube was barely, he was technically available last night, but that was, his minutes were not good. And so, yeah, I'm not roasting SGA, but some of these numbers are stunning. And he looked like the third best guard in the game last night because Dylan Harper had a, marvelous game. And I'm not just talking about his scoring, which was hyper-efficient. He had one of the best loose ball gathers and saves in a critical moment under the rim early in the game and just set the tone that we were going to get the loose balls. We're going to make the smart plays. And then Castle is playing great. And so when you have, to your point about the team building thing, if certain

things happen in game seven, you look at the guards in San Antonio, too. It's not just Wemby. It's like these guards are incredible. Dylan Harper, as Bill likes to say, this is the worst he's ever going to be. And he was marvelous last night. So I think it would be soul searching for a team that we thought was just so built for war. I don't think they'll do a lot. I think they're too sort of cool-headed for that. I think they would look at this and be like, yeah, AJ was hurt and J-dub was hurt.

And that's what smart teams would do. I said the same things as my Celtic fan friends. Yeah, you lost game seven. Jason Tatum was hurt. Like, don't go crazy. Don't go trading your superstars because you lose a game seven

in the playoffs when your best players hurt. Long story short, so much on the line for game seven. So much to watch. But yeah, I'm watching SGA and Chet. If they're not good, I can't see a path for O KC to win. All right, let's take a quick break,

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Save more when you bundle so you can stop dreaming and start saving. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Members only savings vary. Are waiting. A couple other things I wanted to get to just in this game and this series, looking ahead to game seven. Number one on Chet, it's interesting to me that Chet as the only big man on the floor is just been something the Thunder

have decided they're not doing anymore in this series. And maybe that's just about their lack of perimeter depth. They're not playing Wiggins or Joe really at all. And obviously J. Dub and AJ have been hurt. But they're playing Hardinstein as the only big man here and there. They're playing Big Gillian Williams as the only big man here and there. Their best lineups upside-wise have always been four wings and guards in Chet. And we just haven't seen that at all.

And I don't quite know why that is. thing number two, and I wonder if you talked about this as anybody after the game, I thought one thing the spurs changed last night that was smart was their zone with Wembe, which is basically a one-man Wembe zone, was much less obvious, much more well-discised. Sometimes he would start possessions playing straight man-to-man and then fade back into his own. In the second half, he just sort of played man-to-man, like regular defense, even switched a couple of times. because I think the Thunder had found some ways in game five to, okay, we know where he is, we know it's coming.

It starts at the beginning of every possession. He just runs to the baseline near a corner and stays there. And I think the spurs very smartly, we're like, we're still going to play that here and there, but we're not going to play it all the time, and we're going to disguise it a little bit and be a little bit more unpredictable on defense. Even with Cornette, in the second half,

especially they stopped playing zone with Cornett and just played straight man to man, which I think is smart. I think the Cornett zone stuff is not. not worked for them. Did people talk about that at all during the game? Because that was a subtle change that I think was important. No, but I'm glad you mentioned Cornette. People were talking about how Cornett had his best game of the season by far. He was plus 13 in those 13 minutes, which if you've been following that, I've been posting about it over and over, not just because

when Wembe's off the court, the Spurs have just gotten blown out. It looks like a layup line for the Thunder. It started in the Wolf series. Portland really couldn't take advantage of it, but as soon as Luke would come in and Wembe would go off, the Timberwolves, their eyes would get big and they would start attacking. And whether it was A.O. or Ant Man or Jade McDaniels, here come the drives. And it looks like Luke might be hurt a little bit, but for whatever reason, the Thunder were able to start doing that again.

And last night, I didn't pick up on any exact adjustments, Zach, but those Cornett minutes were very good for the San Antonio Spurs. And that's another sort of wonky thing to watch in game seven. The Thunder absolutely need to win those cornet minutes because when you look at Wembe's on-off splits, he has a net rating of 11. The offensive rating for the Spurs is right at 112 when he's on, but the defensive rating of the team is 102. And so they've needed to go out and just destroy those cornet minutes on the thunder side to make up for that difference. and when they didn't do that in the first quarter, and then again in the third quarter,

that's when this game got out of hand. So I wasn't smart enough to pick up on any sort of defensive adjustment specific to the one-man zone. By the way, did you come up with that? I was listening to you and Moe yesterday. Is that your term, the one-man zone? I don't know. No, it's not my, I don't think I made that up.

Take credit for it. It's great. It is a one-man zone, though. Everyone else plays normal defense, and Wembe just sort of passes along his assignment, but they didn't do it as much less than. It's a perfect description of what's going on out there. But, yeah, if Luke Cornett is a zero, a plus minus zero in game seven, I love the spurs chances of winning that game.

I'll say that. And a lot of those minutes are coming with Shea on the floor. And those are the minutes the Thunder absolutely have to win and they did not win last night. And one of the reasons they had a lot of Shea on Victor Off Minutes was Victor's sub-patternattern was a little bit different last night than it had been in the previous two or three games. He came out much earlier in the first and third quarter. and came back in. So they were going quicker, shorter stints with him. A couple other notes.

J. Dub, I mean, obviously 10 minutes at one point, didn't talk to the media after the game. Didn't look great. Didn't impact the game at all. And I thought also notable they did not put him in the game when Shea rested at the beginning of the second and the fourth quarters. And that's always J. Dub and A.J. Mitchell's time to sort of carry the offense. And I thought that that said a lot to me of we're not overtaxing him yet. and we're just sort of seeing what he's got in the tank.

And other than that, you know, I think Vassell's had a really nice series, just sort of unsunged hero. Champany's had a nice series for them defensively and on offense. And a lot of their most successful pick and rolls, the spurs with Wembe rolling, which is always good. Champany is the only guy on the weak side of the floor because that is the hardest rotation, the more stressful rotation for the Thunder to make. And I'm trying to think if I have any other notes other than, man, I'm excited.

I'm excited. Obviously, everyone's excited. I hope we get a classic. The stakes are enormous historically for individual players, for a Thunder team that's trying to end the no-repeat streak in the NBA. And by the way, if the Thunder lose game seven, we are guaranteed to have our eighth different NBA champion in eight seasons. That's right.

Continuing that streak, too. So a lot on the line. I guess my other question for you. is the Knicks. The Mitchell Robinson thing is, you know, we'll see. Obviously, having a broken pinky is suboptimal. I immediately texted my guy, Jeff Stasman, streetclosed, and I said, fire up the database. What does it say about pinky fingers?

And he tweeted it, he texted me and then he tweeted it. Time loss for pinky fractures is dependent on treatment needed. Average time loss for non-operative pinky fractures is nine days, three and a half games normally, but nine days is exactly how much off time the Knicks are going to have before the final start. And obviously, if you need surgery, it's a month. I feel like we have heard if it was going to be surgery by now, maybe not.

I don't know. So my guess is he's going to play. Easy for me to say, if I had a broken pinky finger, I would be like I need someone else to type up my research. It just hurts me too much to type. It would seem hard for him to be a worse free throw shooter. So maybe the pinky finger is like a secret antidote to, his free throw shooting.

But this is a guy who swings at a lot of shots, gets a ton of offensive rebounds. The Knicks offensive rebounding rate with him on the floor in the playoffs is 40%. Without him, it's 30%, which is still good, but it's like it's mortal versus, oh shit. This is a whole other lever of our offense. He and Kat can play together, I think, in either of these matchups a little bit. And they don't have, I mean, their backup is Huck Pordy or playing Annanobie at center,

which they have done against both of these teams in limited minutes. So a big deal, but do you think, zooming out, who should the Knicks be rooting for on Saturday? Oh, that's tempting the basketball gods to borrow one of Zach Lowe's famous phrases. I think you don't do that. You don't root for anybody, but I'll engage. I'm not going to hide from the question. If they were to root for somebody, you root for the spurs.

Like technically a first year head coach, a bunch of young guys, and a team that you beat in the NBA Cup. And you can roast me for calling the NBA Cup relevant here. That's fine, but we don't get a lot of regular season precedent. That was a game that both of those teams really wanted to win. And they did it. And it was an emphatic win that featured Mitch Robinson just being so great on the glass and really just punking the Spurs front court.

So just a lap around the track on Mitch here, if you had to pick one player, if you're a Knicks fan, to break their pinky and still play, that's the guy, to your point about the free throw numbers. He doesn't, he's not Jalen Brunson's pinky we're talking about out there. But he is really good for two reasons. One, I think he is a tremendous vibe shift on the glass. And then two, our man, Cat is a human foul, right? He is the human whistle.

That's a big X factor. And against Wembe, who has drawn 40, 44 fouls in the six games. So that's over seven a game. Good math. There will be whistles in the front court if it's the Spurs. And if nothing else, Mitchell Robinson is six more fouls for the New York Knicks front court to have to play with against the Wembe or a Hardinstein Chet combo.

That'll be a much better combo when Wemby's not there. So this is a big deal. Who should they be? I would definitely say they want to see the inexperienced team that they beat, the San Antonio Spurs. So that's historically the correct answer. And probably actually the answer, they were two and one against the Spurs in three games, including the Cup finals. The third game was in March at Madison Square Garden. Pre this, whatever the hell has happened to the Knicks in the playoffs, it might have been their finest overall performance of the season. They blew out the Spurs at MSG. And the one loss was on New Year's

Steve Champany hit 11-3s and set the record for most points off the bench. Oh, that's right. Without even attempting a two. And then they were 0-and-2 against the Thunder. Both games were pretty competitive games. One, the Thunder ended up winning by 11, pulled away a little bit in the last minute or so of the game. My answer is the Knicks have reached a point where I don't think they should care. I think they're, they have as good a chance against either team.

They can absolutely win the title. They might enter, given the Thunder self-s situation, as favorites or co-favorants against either one of these teams. That's how good the Knicks have been playing. And I think both of them present some sort of internet. I went back and I prepped the Thunder's Knicks finals just in case the Thunder won last night. Obviously, they did not. I will do the same for the Spurs later today. But, you know, both teams put their bigs on Josh Hart and put wings on Cat. Wembe guarded Josh Hart a lot and Hartenstein guarded Josh Hart a lot and so did Chet Holmgren. And that's why J-dub, if the Thunder win, is a huge X-factor because he was their

number one choice to guard Cat and switch the Brunson cat pick and roll. They put Dork on Brunson and J-Dub on Kat and try to switch that. And honestly, like going back and watching it, watching that film back, like, I think the Knicks are ready for all those tactics now in a way that they were, they were showed up a pretty high level of sophistication tactically against both teams. They're just at another level now. They have more layers to their office. now. I think they're going to be ready for anything. But interestingly, if you look back and see the most screens Josh Hart set in any game this season was in that game against the Spurs in March because they put Wembe on them and they were like, you know what? We're going to

use Josh Hart as our screener. It's cat space to floor and it worked. The second most was in March against Oklahoma City for the same reason. And the eighth most was another game against Oklahoma City. So that is clearly an interesting thing. Thunder Knicks is also the team that takes the most corner threes against the defense in Oklahoma City that allows the most corner three. So that's an interesting wrinkle. Anyway, we won't belabor the finals because we don't know who's playing, but I think the Knicks are ready for either one. And like I talked about the Chet solo minutes. Wemby obviously is the only big man on the floor for most of the minutes he plays unless we get a little hint of French vanilla, which we haven't got much of in this series.

And the Knicks have often moved cat around, particularly against the Thunder. They'd put him on Dort or Caruso like we see teams do and try to switch their action. So I think the Knicks, I think the Knicks, despite being 0 and 2 against the Thunder, rewatching those games, I didn't think the Knicks looked uncomfortable at all in them. I think they know where to push on offense as best they can. and obviously they were two and one against the spurs. Everyone's different now than they were then. But I think the Knicks should be comfortable in either one of these matchups.

And man, boy, oh, boy, man. I don't know. I don't even know who's going to be favored in the finals. I think the Thunder would definitely be favored. Yeah. But the Knicks are ready and waiting. And I'm expecting Robinson to play in game one, effectiveness level TBD. But we'll see who they play, man.

We got game seven. Any other Nick's thoughts? before we go? Yeah, I think if there's one red flag, it's like, man, I bet the Spurs and Thunder wish they could have played

the Sixers and Cavs in these last two rounds. But, you know, that's... I'll tell you this. They wouldn't have played him any better than the Knicks just did because the freaking Harlem Globetrotters can't play the Washington Generals

any better than the Knicks just played the rest of the Easter conference. Well, that's what I keep thinking about analytically. And I'm like, yes, okay, so before the Knicks fans come after me, They have peaked at the right time.

Their starting five is great. Mike Brown has come in and done exactly what he was supposed to do. He's found depth. They made a good move at the deadline. They have Alvarado, Mitch Robinson, and Landry Shamet, and Deuce McBride. The bench is deeper. Yes. But, man, the other seven teams in the Eastern Conference playoffs didn't exactly entertain me in the last few weeks.

Okay. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. The Hawks series may have been their toughest series round one. And it definitely was a tough position. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, for a Knicks fan, I'd be a little bit worried about Rust and the oh shit factor. Here comes a team that is throwing a lot heavier punches than who I've played for the last month. And I think that is a real thing.

I don't know who's going to win game seven. But either one of those teams is going to be like, man, we are playing very hard. We've just won one of the hardest series in years in this league. and here we come. We're hosting games one and two on our own floor. We're sleeping our own beds. So the Knicks are going to have to sort of snap out of this sort of gleeful celebration mode that they've been in and come into a Western Conference arena and beat a really good team in game one.

I think they can do it. Don't get me wrong. But it is one of the more dramatic. Hey, we're celebrating the vibes are immaculate. Oh, shit, we have to play the final sort of weeks that we've had in this league in a while. I think I said this with Mike Breen the other day. I think the fact that they just wiped the floor with the East is helpful in that regard. The fact that it was anticlimactic sort of reinforces to them that the job is not close to done.

Like this was actually kind of an easy job. And we if internalized how easy it was, let's be happy that we did it. But the real job is coming. And I expect whoever wins game seven, I expect a super long and competitive finals. And I can't wait. any any any any any any any any any thoughts any thoughts on lottery reform which passed yesterday already had I already had my I already had my take on on that with Hollinger but do you have any thoughts on this as a former team executive yourself quickly the Mike

brain podcast you did um this week was incredible oh stuff well that's all my fear that's not well if you're a Nick I always love when a play by play guy gets on a podcast like when Al Michaels would go on with Bill was just like electric because they would he would pull out these stories from Al's career but Mike's ability to talk about Nick Nick's history, Nick's culture, having the front row seat for all of these games, the dark years, the stories you would tell about as interactions with fans. I thought it really set the stage really well for the finals. I'm just buttering you up because I want you to send me your notes for the finals preview. I have to write a finals preview, and since you retired from writing, these things fall upon me.

I'm on sabbatical. I don't know if I've read. Can you send me your notes? What about a co-written finals preview? I'll do most of the work, but a couple. of Zach Lowe bullets. That would be really cool in there. What do you think? How about this? I will send you a screenshot of this paper, which is where I wrote my handnotes on it. If you can decipher them, I will. I'm going to Claude, and I'll be like, hey, Claude, turn this screenshot into a Zach Lowe finals preview. I was going to say something about Claude that I shouldn't have said. The only thing I'll say about lottery reform because I covered it is there are a lot of concerns. We'll see how it plays out. I'm largely like, okay with this proposal. The one thing that I'm very curious

about is there's a lot of angst about this cliff between, like, would I rather be the eighth seed than the seventh seed? Because as the eighth seed, I get one ball and as a seven seed I get none. Would I try to engineer it so I just duck out of the play in tournament entirely and get three balls rather than make the play in tournament and get two, two balls as the ninth or tenth seat. I just don't think any team is going to do that. I may be wrong. I may be naive.

Maybe I am naive because teams game the system all the time. I just think the delta between play in excitement for your fans and your team and your, I just, that is such a loser mentality. And you're ducking out of something that's actually real and meaningful that I just don't see that as much of a significant. That's the only take I want to get off today is I don't I don't see teams doing that to the degree that the fretters are worrying about. I'll give you one more that I wish I'd come up with, but I talked to one of the smart executives in the league yesterday, and he told me this. This current 321 era is set to sunset in 2029.

And I wish I would have come up with this idea, but there's some uncertainty about those future first. What are the rules going to be? Are we going to snap back to this system? So does it change how teams value those first round picks? Is it going to reduce teams' willingness to part with future first? Because we don't know what the rules will be in a world where 3-2-1 exists, like being the worst team in the league like San Antonio was or near the bottom, like Washington and Utah, that's devalued, obviously.

If we're going back to that, we'll see how these next three years play out. But one person told me, hey, we don't know how to think about our 20-30 first-round pick anymore if we're going to be bad. And I think that's a really relevant point of this new rule system. Not only that, but the more unpredictable the lottery is and it just got a lot more unpredictable, the more likely our pick might just randomly be a top five pick one year or whatever. All right. Kurt Goldsbury, buckle up. We got a day of respite.

And then Saturday night, tomorrow night, the biggest game of the year, the Knicks are awaiting the winner. Thunder Spurs, Game 7. It's been an interesting series. I hope we get a classic. KG, thank you for your time. And enjoy, enjoy tomorrow night. Thank you, Zach. All right, that's it for today's show.

I will be on Bill's show live Saturday tomorrow after game seven of Spurs Thunder. And then we'll be on to previewing the finals next week on the Zach Lowe show. Thank you, as always to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. Thanks to Kurt Goldsbury. Thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe show. Stay tuned. We'll be back next week from. a site TBD. Enjoy game seven.

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