The Zach Lowe Show - The Knicks Win a Game 2 Thriller with Jon Krawczynski!

Episode Date: June 6, 2026

Zach is joined by Jon Krawczynski for an instant reaction to the Knicks' Game 2 win. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show!(02:00) A magical Knicks run(04:55) KAT is dominating the series(08:04) Mike Brown is pressing all the right buttons(14:05) Last 60 seconds of the game(26:02) Possibly the most dominant run of all time?(30:39) Harper needs to play more(43:49) Jalen Brunson the greatest Knick of all time? Host: Zach LoweGuests: Jon KrawczynskiProducers: Jonathan Frias and Michael SzokoliSocial: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Coming up on the Zach Lowe show. I need a drink. I don't smoke. I might need a cigarette. What a game in San Antonio, a game of runs, a game where it looked like despite falling behind multiple times, despite Miles McBride and McHillberg just carrying the Knicks in a stretch when Cat was on the bench in foul trouble and Jalen Brown, Jailen Brunson, Jail and Brown, Jailin Brown, my brain is broken. We're resting that the Knicks were just going to rest control of the series and Foxx. went crazy and Wemby did some stuff and then came down to the end of regulations

spurs take the lead. Knicks tie it up then some crazy stuff happens to turn over a miss free throw. Wemby misses two jumpers who there is a lot to talk about but first and foremost the New York Knicks are 14 and two in the playoffs

have won 13 consecutive games and are on one of the most magical I don't even know what other word to use in the history of professional sports and are two wins away from their first title in 53 years. The end of the game was nuts.

John Krasinski from the Athleticus here. We go blow by blow through the big plays in the game, the larger trends in the game. Katz outrageous first half. Wemby responding to the critics in the second half. The Knicks surviving a bad Jailant Brunson shooting game, and yet, of course, he makes the tying jumper and the winning free throw,

and they escape in the end with the Wemby jumper. who what a series we talk about what the spurs can do to get back into it in madison square garden and we just talk about a lot of stuff it was an incredible game um i i hope you enjoy it and that's all coming up on the zack glow show welcome to the zack low show holy shit what a basketball game in san antonio a game of runs a game where it felt like the nix had solved san antonio in two critical stretches, the last of which was when Kat picked up his fourth foul after playing like one of the best halves of his entire career.

They were pulling away. Victor Webbenyama was yelling in the huddle and suddenly behind Deeran Fox making some buckets, Victor Wenamah playing with force, a missed Brunson layup that became a goaltend at the other end on a Dylan Harper layup, and then an and one dunk by Victor Wenamma. The Spurs stormed into the lead,

and then a bunch of crazy stars. happened, John Krasinski. I might mis recount it, but Brunson makes a two-point shot with like 39 seconds left over Champanyi. Wembe Nama after a timeout misses a jumper from the left side of the floor going for the two-for-one with 30 seconds left. Brunson then misses a jump shot with like 16 seconds left. When-benyama gets the rebound. Spurs have a chance to play for the last shot. Outlet pass, Steph Castle, not looking for it. Off his back. Out of bounds. Brunson steals it in his foul. Not out of bounds. Brunson steals it and is knocked out of bounce. He's fouled. One out of two. Luke Cornett maybe kicks the ball on the rebound. Spurs timeout.

Wemby misses another jump shot. A second miss in 30 seconds of game time. Nix escaped with the one point win. Wemby, I thought, answered the critics who were howling at halftime with a pretty goddamn strong second half, but a game of runs and the Knicks had the last gas. And John Krasinski, I think we just have to start now. This is one of the most remarkable things I have ever seen in sports. In any sport ever. I said before the series,

I think the Knicks have some sort of magical alchemy going and I believe in it. Even I didn't think they would win both games in San Antonio. And when the Spurs finally took the lead on that punch by Wemby, you thought, okay, 1-1, we're set for an epic finals like we all expected. And the Knicks somehow,

some way, escape with a win, and this is becoming one of the greatest stories in the history of sports, if they wrap this up, the 50 whatever year drought and one of the greatest playoff runs of all time, 13 wins in a row, and the Knicks are coming home

two wins away from a title. Where do you want to start as we try to digest this game? Do you want to start at the end? Do you want to start with Wembe? Do you want to start with the Knicks winning a game where Brunson was, what, 7 of 25, I think, from the floor? What's what's the number one headline for you, John Krasinski? Zach Lowe, you're not going to be surprised to hear this.

Other people who know where I'm from are not going to be surprised to hear this. To me, the story of this series in these first two games is Carl Anthony Towns has been the best player through, you know, what are we at? Seven of the eight quarters. He is playing an incredible defense on Victor Wembe Niam. Wembe played really well in the second half, but really didn't get going until those two questionable calls put Carl on the bench and got Victor to get a little bit more rhythm going in that third quarter. And then the efficiency that he's playing with, getting everyone involved, he has been

remarkable. And for a player who has been so maligned, slandered, all those things, some for a good reason, a lot for not. I just think that this has been his coming out party in such a major way. And for a guy who's covered him his old career, I'm just happy to see him rise to the occasion here because he has been tremendous on both ends of the floor. I thought the first half, you and I were texting about it at halftime, was given the stakes, aka higher than any stakes he's ever played in in the NBA, was maybe the best half he's

ever played in his life. And he had 18 points. So it wasn't like, I mean, he's had a 50 point game. It's not like he hasn't scored that much and a half. You only had three after halftime because of the foul trouble. But I just thought the story of this game until the last five minutes when I felt the Knicks started leaking oil on offense and kind of just all of a sudden didn't have a plan. The story of the game was they had an answer for every defense the spurs tried to mix in.

And when you have Wembenyama, you have as many levers to pull defensively as any team has ever had. You can have him guard Kat straight up. You can have him guard Josh Hart. You can have them play a straight up zone. You can have them play like a hybrid zone where it's hard to tell who he's guarding and when. And the Knicks sniffed it out time and time again. Every time they got him on Kat, they just ran a Brunson cat pick and roll. And they knew exactly how the Spurs were going to respond.

Cat was going to pop. Wemby was going to peel down into the paint and the third guy was going to rotate onto Cat and they were ready to swing that baby around until they got what they wanted. And maybe the defining possession of the game was that action. Brunson Cat, third guy rotates.

Wemby peels down four minutes in the second quarter. Five passes and drives in a row by the Knicks to get the blender going because Wembe makes you keep that blender on and on and on. And it ended with I think an, no, Bridges hits. of three from the right corner Bridges who felt like he didn't miss a shot the entire game. And that was one of the, I mentioned the two defining stretches of this game. That late second quarter stretch was one when Hart was on the bench with three fouls

and the Knicks put sham it in his place and played what I call their best super shooting lineup. And, you know, it's like, and also when Wembe was on Kat during that stretch one time, they just gave him the ball up top and ran their flex action. And McHale Bridges got a back cut out of it. just every button that Mike Brown and his team could press, they pressed it. When he was on, when he was playing his zone, they would clear, they would get him to, when he plays his own, he toggles from one guy to another.

And when he would toggle onto a guy that Knicks liked, like Ananoby or Shamit, they would clear everyone else to the other side of the floor and run a two-man game. And they got good stuff out of that. And that second quarter, it went from Spurs ahead to Knicks ahead at the half was one of defining stretches of the game. and Towns had his fingerprints all over it. He got a post up on a switch again when Wemby was on him and they switched to pick and roll. He got a kickout pass on a switch where he just wrapped around four guys and found bridges in the corner. His defense and the Knicks pick and roll defense overall has been outstanding.

He had his fingerprints all over that game, got him the lead. And then the other defining stretch until the end game was when he did pick up four fouls. And the spurs had momentum. And all of a sudden, Deuce McBride made a moonball jumper. and McHale Bridges became Brooklyn McHale Bridges and the Knicks just held the fort without Brunson and without Kat. That was defining stretch number two.

But I agree with you like... It was Bridges, Shamit, Alvarado, Deuce, and Mitchell Robinson for that stretch at the end of the third quarter. Against Whemby. Well, no, it was against Cornette at the beginning and I wrote in my notes, I wonder if this is why they're risking the non-brunson. I mean, Cat was out with foul trouble,

but also sitting Brunson earlier than usual. And I thought Brunson was tired at the end of the game, and that's one of the reasons the Knicks offense went off the rails a little bit. But I thought, okay, they're risking it here, timing it with Cornett's minutes. And then Wembe came in, and they still played that lineup. And they extended the lead to 11, I think, going into the fourth quarter. Two just massive stretches, and then they opened it up to 12 or 13 or whatever in the fourth. And you just felt like in that moment, seven minutes, six minutes to go, whatever it was,

the spurs had missed their chance. It was now or never with that group in the game, and it looked like it was going to be never. And to the Knicks credit, they just, they manufacture buckets. Their collective skill level is off the charts. If you're going to play the way I describe in that blender and figuring out every answer to every defense

and pulling all the lever, you need five guys who could shoot, pass, and create off the dribble, and depending on how hard shot is going, they have that and they have a big man who stretches everyone out. and then the spurs come roaring back. And somewhere in that stretch, I went from analyst to just mouth a gape fan of what was going on.

And I don't really know where you want to start in that. But I agree with you. I thought that first half was just unbelievable. If the Knicks win, Brunson will probably win finals MVP because he's Jill and Brunson. He made the big shot and the big free throw tonight. But Kat has a case for it. We're not there yet.

He's been outstanding. Yeah. And I would say that one of the reasons, that it did get away from the Knicks in the fourth quarter was that they got out of running the offense through Carl Anthony Towns. And you look, Jalen Brunson is one of the best clutch players in the league. We saw what he did in the fourth quarter of game one. He deserves to take those shots and get it. But I do think that they got a little to one dimensional. And I do think he tried to force some things that were not working and that allowed the spurs to get back into it.

One kind of defining characteristic of Carly Anthony Towns earlier on in his career was the throw ahead, you know, behind the back passes, the wild turnovers, the offensive fouls, like all of those things. That's been eliminated. He is playing with composure and control and making simple reads and simple plays. and when he is doing that, the Knicks are so hard to guard, and the Spurs don't have an answer for that. And when they got away from that in the fourth,

that did open the door for the Spurs to get back into it. Credit to them for staying with it and not giving up. But I do think that Brunson really just tried to make it happen on his own, and the shots just were not falling tonight for the most part. And if they had continued to kind of run their offense, I think that this would have been a much easier video. victory. Towns was plus 11 in a one point win. I mean, that's just like that shows what he brought to the table. Tounds going into this game, 17 in the playoffs, 17 points, 11 rebounds, six assists to

two and a half turnovers, 56% shooting, 47% on threes. And he had a couple classic like peak Adelman Minnesota era threes tonight where he had Brunson set a little downscreen for him and he moon walked back and he hit a three like that made me think of the wolves we don't see it as much anymore and rest in peace rick edelman yep there you go 60% on twos and the way he's playing defense he has been every bit the superstar that the nicks thought they were trading for every bit the superstar that looked like maybe it wouldn't happen under mike brown and at various points in the season he has been unbelievable and uh i don't even oh and just yeah at the end they they they oh Well, you mentioned his just passing another play where they had

Wemby on Kat and a cross match because Kat's guarding Wembe, Wembe can't get off and they immediately run. This is the play where I thought it's probably over now. Midway through the fourth, Wemby stuck on Kat, Brunson, Cat, pick and roll, switch and rotate out. Cat ends up with Fox on him. They throw it to him in the corner and he looks around and he throws it all the way to Annanobie in the opposite corner

and Victor scrambles out and OG beats him off the dribble and kind of is like, am I going to dunk it? I think I'm going to dunk it and dunks it with Victor right behind him. That was the point where I thought it was over. And then it wasn't over. And we should probably talk about the end game. Where would you like to start in the last, I don't know, 90 seconds? Let's pick it up like when Brunson,

Brunson beats Fox off the dribble, misses the layup that would put the Knicks up five, run out, goal tend. I thought Kat actually got it on first glance. and I was wrong completely. And it's down to one. Where do you want to go after that? What are we going to be talking about from that last minute forever and ever?

I think that one play that you're going to be talking about is Wemby gets the ball down one with the chance to go up and throws the ball off of Castle's back. And that is just like one of those plays where it looked like he got sped up in the moment and there was a little miscommunication. and was that experience, was that two young guys just not on the same page, whatever it was, but that to me felt like the kind of error, the kind of mental foe paw that you just cannot have

in a championship game, in a finals type of a setting, if you are going to win a championship before you're expected to win it. And so they have been largely great, these young guys all the way through the playoffs. But I thought Wemby doing that, getting the ball, and then rushing a little bit and throwing it to Castle while his back was turned to him was just like an absolute put your hands on your head. I cannot believe that just happened moment. Four turnovers for Wemby in the game. Two of them happened in rapid succession right at the end of the first half. And both of them were like those were the turnovers that were the reason Kenny Smith, I think at half time said he looked shook.

because one was just a hot potato like I got it. He actually had an advantage. Like he caught it in semi-transition. Kat was not quite in front of him. He could have attacked and he just threw it right back and into the back court. And then another sloppy pass. I can remember exactly. This one I just rewatched.

I'm going to be interested to see how they talk about it after the game. We're recording this literally the game just ended. So we're missing all the post game media comments. He takes like a dribble or two and Castle looks back at him expecting the outlet pass. and right as Wemby picks up his dribble, Castle starts to turn back up the court thinking I guess he's not going to pass it to me and then the pass comes.

I don't know really whose fault that is. Traditionally, the guard would expect the big man to give him the ball, maybe Wembe waited a beat longer. But yeah, you just can't, I mean, that's a play that you look back on if you lose the series and say that could cost us. I mean, again, you can't boil it down to one play because we've already highlighted these two defining stretches

of the game that matter. that set us up for that moment. But that's a moment where you have a chance to win the game and regulation and go one-one. And it goes so badly that not only do you, you don't even get a shot, they get a foul, they win the game. Wemby misses a good jumper at the end. It just can't happen. It was reminiscent of like a couple of the rockets turnovers and whatever game that was

against the Lakers. Well, especially too, Zach, in that part, when you're making that pass theoretically, you are starting at least a transition or semi-transition. And what we saw from the spurs in the fourth quarter and coming back is Castle Harper going downhill to the rim. That is where they were having their success. And so you can say in your mind's eye that I would bet that the spurs were going to score off of that play somehow, some way. And not only they did not score, but then they put Brunson on the line and they end up down one coming out of it. it is charged in the official play-by-play as a Wembenyama bad pass turnover.

I mean, obviously they can't give the turnover to anybody else because Castle never touches the ball. But that is how it was, it was how it was charged. And yeah, Brunson misses the second free throw. They call timeout. I'm going to look again as we're doing this at the last shot. They're litigating the cornet kick as I'm watching this. I mean, it's a good shot. Like, it's a clean.

I'm looking at it out, the last shot of the game. It's two seconds left. Mitchell Robinson, who I think is played really well considering his injury, gives a pretty good contest. It's a 16-footer from the right elbow. It's probably like a 40 to 45% shot for Wembe, and the other 55% came up. And you could sit here and say,

in real time, I thought they took a little bit too long to get into anything. Like, I'm going to watch it again now. Fox gets the ball. And he just kind of stands there two seconds. There's 4.8. when Victor comes up to set the pick. I would have liked that to go a little faster because you could say like, oh, they could have tried to get fouled. Two free throws, they win the game. I think that's a perfectly fine shot. And Victor just missed it. I don't think he missed it because he choked or he's not up for the moment. I think in the second half, he answered a lot of the questions we would have wanted to see answered. I think he needed to have that second half. I mean, certainly, you know, what Kat did to him in the first half and what the Knicks in general did to just get him out of rhythm, it was glaring. And so, I understood why, you know, the halftime show was focused on that and, and, and, and, and, in finding a way to get Wemba, yama going. And honestly, Zach, like, after watching him for most of

these playoffs, usually after the spurs lose a game in a series, he comes out in the first quarter guns blazing and just like, it's 14, six, and two, and the spurs are up big. And I thought that, you know, because that did not happen, and, you know, and the, you know, because that did not happen, in this game right after the first quarter, even though the Knicks were still down, I thought they were in good shape because they did not get that Wembeiyama Haymaker. But it did start to come in the third quarter. And, you know, I thought he started to get going. And then when Kat went to the bench, it got him going a little bit more.

But, yeah, Victor played really well, especially considering he's 22 years old and he's played more minutes and more games, you know, this, this season than he has in his life. He's probably a little tired. he's an incredible player but I think the Knicks have done a really good job of just making him work as hard as humanly possible for everything so maybe on that last shot maybe his legs were a little heavy maybe he was just a little bit winded and and all of the accumulation of the little elbows to his ribs the shoulders everything all added up to that moment just being a little bit off on that shot. And there was another one now that I'm remembering it, I think there were less than two minutes left in the game. Nick's up three where Wembe got a switch and he took McHale

Bridges into the post and Bridges made a sensational play and batted away the entry pass. And Wemby caught it and was just like, I guess I'm just going to take a turnaround three from the corner, which missed horribly. And I didn't like that shot from him. But yeah, in the second half, I mean, you know, he did what you wanted him to do. And that emblematic of that was that one lefty half layup, half floater around Kat in the post where he just, when he takes that extra pivot or fakes the Steve Smith spin and then goes back the other way, he's at the rim. And that's all you want him to do. And he made that shot. Let's go through some Nix players. O.G. and an OB, just like a metronome. Yeah. 17 points. Two of five from three. I mentioned

the dunk and he had who did he block i think it was harper in transition and then someone on the nix hit a runout three probably sham it or bridges right after that was sham it i think so yeah i think that's right and then there was another sequence like that in the first quarter where castle missed a layup at the rim and brunson got a runout three in transition and he just like i mean both of these teams the transition defense has been unbelievable through two games the spurs unbelievable for the playoffs. But Anonymous made a couple of those plays in transition that were just pivotal backbreaking plays. And he's just such a reliable guy. He made the three for three free throws late after Mike Brown challenged a plus challenge, I guess, by Mike Brown. And they survive a Brunson

seven of 25 and four turnovers, which is really unlike him. They only had 12 turnovers. And I was looking at, we were texting before the game that I was sort of looking at where Brunson already ranks in a lot of all-time Knicks categories, and it's going to be extremely high by the end. But one of his superpowers is his turnover rate is just routinely, like, super low for a guy who handles the ball so much. And the Knicks again had another low turnover game. And just, I mean, what a, and the pendulum of Josh Hart, like the hero of game one and

18 minutes, five fouls minus three in game two, and they find a way to win. The Knicks, you mentioned the early lead for the Spurs. The Knicks are just a skillful, thoughtful, professional goddamn basketball team who walk you down, who do not get panicked, who keep playing their game, who figure out immediately what you're trying to do on defense. And they're just hard to get away from when it feels like the classic game. Like here comes the home team. They're about to get this to 16, 17.

The Knicks do not let it happen. There are no breaks that you get with. the Knicks and credit to Mike Brown for this whole season playing Landry Shamit, playing Miles McBride, playing, you know, Alvarado, giving these guys quality minutes to get ready for moments like they had in the third quarter. Like any, there's so many other teams, Zach, that once, you know, Towns goes to the to the bench with foul trouble when Brunson is out, that is when the wheels come off. And instead, they just bow their backs and keep fighting. And they seem to just get a charge out of the challenge of that.

And I do think that the chemistry that they have as a group is something really special. Like they are so connected all the way up and down that roster that the belief never waivers, whether they're down 22 against Cleveland in the fourth quarter, whether they're down 12 against the spurs in the freaking finals. It's just stay with it, keep going, and the door will open. And if it doesn't open, we're going to kick the damn thing down. That's what these guys are doing right now. It is one of the more remarkable things I've been covering this league almost 25 years.

And to see the way that this has come together and the way that it just does not stop, it's an unbelievable story in the annals of this. this league's history, let alone what we're seeing just day to day here. Well, I mean, look, the NBA, the NBA website has not updated, is not updated yet for tonight's game. Going into tonight, the Knicks were 13 and 2 in the playoffs with a plus 281 margin, net rating plus 19.1. And, you know, a lot of the people who had Spurs and 5, Spurs and 7, by the way, an outcome that's still very much in play. Like, disperts are not out of the series.

No question. It's a big uphill climb and it's hard to recover from two losses like this. But I mentioned that I was at when I was at game one of Cavs Nix and the Nix made that remarkable comeback. There was some snickering from people who were at the game. And I keep saying like not front office or coaches from either of the two teams like agents, other people who were there about how coming on the wake of. Thunder Spurs game one like oh this is a fun game it's kind of cute it's like the jv series and i was like i don't think it is like i think that something real has happened here for the nix

they're 13 and two now 14 and two they've won 13 games in a row let's just say they win in five let's just say it who knows if this can happen they'll be 16 and three with a plus 18 net rating it would be in the if they finished the job it would be in the conversation for the greatest playoff run in the history of the NBA. It's up there statistically with whatever the Warriors did with the Rand, with the 2001 Lakers, with the best Jordan teams. You can poo-poo the competition, but the Knicks obliterated the competition in the Eastern Conference.

And they just won two road games in San Antonio, a very hard place to win. It is, without hyperbole, as you said, one of the greatest stories I've ever seen in basketball and in sports. Well, and you look at just all the individual. stories within it. You have this Carl Anthony Towns redemption. You have Landry Shammit as Joe Flacco. You just like getting on this heater that is unexplainable. You have Josh Hart playing like a bat out of hell. You have Mitchell Robinson making the contest with a broken finger, whatever he's got going on. You have OG, you have bridges not missing shots. Then you have Jalen Brunson who is a

shooting well at all, but found a way in the fourth quarter to just go supernova. And like all of those threads are weaving together to just create this unbelievable quilt that is going to stand the test of time if they are able to finish it off. And you're right, Zach, I want to just like really hit the pause button say that this series is far from over, but everything that has come together for them. and they can also walk out of these two games saying we haven't gotten a really good Jaylen Brunson game yet we we we there's been a few other things that could be much much better going back home and they're going to just have confidence flowing through them and I just

I cannot even imagine what Madison Square Garden is going to be like four game three up to woe it is going to be on fire it probably already is right now going on right now going on now. It's just going to be incredible. You know, when you were talking about the Nix players that made me think about just like McHale Bridge's game four of the Hawks series, are they going to bench him? Is he going to be, was this trade of a stake? Yeah. And then he comes out and he has this month now of just consistently excellent two-way play.

Josh Hart on the bench during the Knicks rally in game one against the Cavs on. maybe, you know, they, they, they just need to go all shooting. He comes out and he has just a classic Josh Hart. He's everywhere, and he makes five three's game. Alvarado, out of their rotation for, you know, a good chunk of his Nick's stint, has leapfrogged Clarkson, comes in, in game one in an emergency situation where Bruns has to go to the locker room and just makes every right read, like, talk about a guy who is wired to, if the opposing big is on cat,

Whatever else you think we're doing, we're going right into a pick and roll with me and cat, and we're going to see how the defense responds. It's just been all season, I said the Knicks were reminded me of the sensation, watching them play of having a word or a trivia answer on the tip of your tongue and you know it, but you just can't quite get there. And then they'd get there. They'd be in the zone for two, three, four, five games. It ain't in one stretch.

And then they would lose it. And you just wondered, would they ever get it back? Would they ever be able to sustain it if they got it back? Not only did they get it back, they found an even higher plane of existence, and they've sustained it. And they are playing like the best basketball team in the world, and they're two wins away from a title. But they are two wins away from a title.

And one of the powers of having home court advantage is not only game seven at home, but if the Spurs split in Madison Square Garden and win game five, they only got to win one more road game to put everything on the line at home in game seven. And a 3-1 comeback is much more realistic from the team with home court. And so going forward, let's try to come down from like the ecstasy of a crazy game. What did what did you see whether it was in the last five minutes or just overall from the first two games? Stuff the spurs did that could carry over into a hostile environment. Well, I mean, I think a couple of things.

one is that to see Wembenyama start to find his spots and figure out ways to attack and be productive, I think is the most important thing. He did look flustered, certainly in game one and in the first half of game two, and just didn't seem like he knew where he was going to get his offense. Now it looks like he can go back to this film, look at the second half, look at the fourth core, and say, okay, now I understand a little bit more. about where I can be effective. The other thing, though, Zach, I mean, I know other people have talked about it. This isn't super original, but Dylan Harper plus 12. And I just think that when you look at, he played 32 minutes, that may even need to be higher.

Like, like, I just think that getting the ball in his hands and letting him go with it, like De Aaron Fox played pretty well today. but like I just am not as afraid of the spurs when the ball is in Fox's hands versus when the ball is in Harper's hands and maybe you can play you know him Castle and and Fox together but at some they they have to I think transition to Dylan Harper is a featured part of what we're doing all of the time because of his physicality because of his unflappable nature and if they empower him more, I think that's their best chance of getting back into this and flipping it in a way that can be sustainable, not just for one game,

but for four games, which is what they need to dig this thing out of the mud. I mean, I don't know how much more you can ask of him than 32 minutes and 15 points plus 12. I don't know. I'm sure they can dial up his minutes more than that. I mean, Castle had to leave the game for a little bit

with fouls and he hurt his foot and then came, it seemed to hurt his foot and come back in. Fox was very good tonight and came alive in the fourth quarter to step back three, up and under around Brunson and other ISO against Brunson. And to me, all of that, including Harper, I think they need to aim even more of their offense at Brunson. And just on the ball, not even necessarily. They keep running these double screens or staggered screens or Wembeyanama

screening on one side and whoever Brunson is guard. and screening on the other side. And Brunson's escaping that stuff pretty easily. They're not even really using his man. They're using Wembe instead. And the Knicks pick and roll defense has been, again, a skillful, thoughtful team. They are bumping Wembenyama on the role early

when they set those stagger screens. I might not even set the stagger screens anymore because what it's doing is it's putting a Knicks defender up high and in position to hit him early before a second guy hits him or threatens to hit him late and they're just not getting anything out of the Wembenyama picking a roll. So I might make them even even simpler. And just I would go at Brunson.

I would just hunt them with my guards a little bit and attack him physically with Castle, has had some success. I would do that even more. And Wemby, Stan Van Gundy mentioned this after game one and he's totally right. He needs to hammer people on these picks. He's getting out of him too early and he's not getting his guards separation and therefore he's not making towns and Robinson shift. over at all. And the roles are just, there are two or three possessions where you can see

a lob is there and the guards either don't see it or don't have the confidence to make it or they're being covered so tightly from behind that they just aren't comfortable making it. But for the most part, the Knicks are playing spectacular defense. And part of that too is like, you go back and watch their closeouts. They're short to Harper. They're short to Castle and they're closing out hard on everybody else. They're short to Kelden Johnson, who has not made an impact really at all other than and one offensive rebound. Like they are not messing up basic schematic things ever in these games. And it's hard to beat a team that doesn't beat itself even at all.

Yeah. And I do think like that is another part when you look at what got the spurs here and what hasn't been there in the first two games. Stefan Castle had some incredible games against the Timberwolves, against the Thunder. And he hasn't had that big game yet where he's hitting all of his threes. He's getting to the basket and scoring at the rim. He was five for 14 tonight.

I can't remember what he was in game one, but he was not effective. And so that is one where you can look at and say, you know, just like the Knicks can say, you know, Jalen Brunson may shoot it better at home or, you know, a few others. Like I think Stefan Castle is going to be better offensively, certainly just more dynamic from a scoring standpoint going forward. And maybe it's the physicality. maybe, you know, it's the stage or whatever, but he's so mentally tough. Like, he will figure some of this stuff out.

But he is a roadmap to, okay, if Stefan Castle gets it going, that allows them to exploit Brunson a little bit more too and just find switches and go at him or or even bridges or any of these other guys. And so I just think that he is going to have to step his game up and really look more like the castle from the Western Conference finals from the semi-finals. to kind of really put the Knicks on their heels a little bit more. And I don't know how much more Wembe Nama can play in 40 minutes tonight, big minutes in game one. They're just losing the Cornette minutes, even when Brunson is off the floor over and over again. You know, Carter Bryan at center was floated as a solution.

He just hasn't looked ready to play in this series. So I don't really know what they're supposed to do there. If French vanilla is even an option, and they just haven't really used that and I don't love it for them. I don't think their team really is built, is built to play that way. I would go back.

The first thing I would do if I were on the Spurs coaching staff is have a drink. The second thing I would do is cue up my film and watch the last five minutes of our defense versus New York's offense and see,

did we find anything in that stretch or did the Knicks just kind of slow down? Did they get tired? There was that one possession, where Brunson kind of just stood in the corner and McHale Bridges dribbled around for a bit and committed a turnover. Because the defense they went to in that stretch

was the Victor zone where he's just tagging, tagging off and switching off on one player after another, not guarding towns, not guarding Hart, who was on the floor, off the floor on the floor. And the spurs are trying to mix up their defenses. I think to be unpredictable.

Like, Hilt, Dictor will start on town straight up. and then next possession he'll be in his own. Next possession will be on Josh Hart. Next possession will be on Towns again. And part of that is you can't always set the defense you want, but I think a lot of it is they're trying to be so unpredictable to throw the Knicks out of rhythm. And the Knicks are too smart.

The Knicks are just sussing it out immediately. And I wonder if that zone ends up being their best answer. But the Knicks have figured out how to beat how to beat Victor in his own. And the way they've done it is bringing him into the action on the ball. finding him and bringing him in a two-man game that he can't really get out of or hasn't figured out how to get out of. And yeah, he's in the two-man game. He's Victor.

He's huge. They'd rather have him out there on the floor than at the rim. And also, like, there's, again, when he's guarding Josh Hart, it's happened in both games. They will go right to a cat post up because they don't have the size to guard cat. And Josh Hart will be the entry passer. And Victor Womidiam is like pressing him out there. And I'm like, you're just letting Josh. cart, not even pressing him, because if he were pressing him, he wouldn't be able to pass.

He's on him, but not on him enough to dissuade the entry pass. And Cat is feasting in the post. Again, and then, you know, Cat gets Lou Cornette for a possession and drives by him for a floater. Just every element of Kat's game is singing. So I don't know what they found in those last five minutes. But I, Kelton Johnson played 16 minutes tonight after eight in game one. He's the one guy they have that if you want to,

to play around with Victor on Hart or Victor in his zone and not worry that you're overmatched physically by Kat. He's the closest one, still giving up size, but I don't know if more Kelden Victor minutes together as anything, but I mean, they almost won the game tonight. And they had a chance. They had the ball in their hands. And I can't wait to go see the quotes or what's being said about that, that pass that is going to go down in Spurs history right up there with Manu fouling Dirk in, in 2016.

and all of that, like, or I think it was 2006, it's just an all-time learning moment, I guess. Yeah, and I'll say I do want to go and watch this game back just to get my mind around it because my brain was melting as I was watching that fourth quarter. But my initial impression as I watched the game, and I picked the Nixon six. Ooh, even more aggressive than I was.

I picked Nixon seven. Okay, yeah. But, you know, as I was watching those last five minutes, It felt to me in real time like the Knicks were letting the spurs off the hook more than the spurs were dictating the rules of engagement and figuring things out and getting stops. Like Brunson was taking some tough shots. He makes some of those, but all of that ball movement, all of that intelligence had kind of dissipated and it was more one-on-one, more ISO.

And I thought that just really played into the Spurs' hands. You know, your point about the zone, Zach, is a lot of teams struggle with the zone if they can't shoot it from outside or if they can't move it. And the Knicks do both of those things so well that they're almost zone proof, even with Victor, going against them. So, I mean, you know, maybe they will, maybe they did discover something. But my initial thought, as we're talking about this right after the game, is that the Knicks were more responsible for that lead slipping away than the spurs were for going out and grabbing it. take it and getting back into it. And there's probably some fatigue factor too. I mean,

the Knicks, the Knicks starters are all playing big minutes. I mean, you know. Did you see, how about the Fox Brunson little tete-a-tat? Yeah, that was interesting.

We had some dust-ups in this game. Brunson just stares and then Bridges gets in. You're just waiting for your college buddies to come break up the flight. We had the Josh Hart trip on Cornette. Was it Corvette? I think that's right. I thought that was, I thought that was correctly called as a flagrant.

I thought there was a little. too much reaching up and grabbing there. We had the Mitchell Robinson Tech jostling with Wembe, which I thought was a horrible call. I just thought that's a blow of the whistle and said, hey, settle down. Especially from Tony Brothers. He doesn't do that stuff.

Come on, Tony. Let them play. By the way, ongoing on one of my many sports text threads, two friends who sure were any nameless Knicks fans. Earlier today purchased plane tickets, hotel rooms, and game tickets to Game 5 in San Antonio. Antonio and are now thinking, what are we going to do if there's no game five? Worst case scenario, one says, a visit to the Alamo and a fun Mexican meal.

If David Stern was still with us, no way does he not make sure there is a Saturday night NBA finals game next weekend. Now they're plotting what to do in case they're in San Antonio with nothing to do with all their next gear. I thought that the thumb was on the scale when Kat got those two fouls in the third quarter and they were a little questionable. and I wonder if Adam made the call from the stands there. But that would be a good problem to have if you're a Knicks fan.

I would still go and just wear your Knicks garb up and down the Riverwalk and soak it all in. That'll go well for you. Just obnoxiously show up after the series is over. Why not? You haven't won a title in 50 years. Just like, I mean, you got to do whatever you can to celebrate this if that does happen. I'm trying to think what else I want to hit from this game. We've hit a lot of it.

I mean, it was like a B game from Wembe. Yeah. But I think he did a lot enough. I think he had 22 points in the second half. I think he at least answered the, he definitely answered the was a little bit odd or shaken. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was by no means a bad game from Wembe or one that it was like, oh, he's not ready for this kind of a thing.

It was it was a quality game, but it's probably not what they need to win. They need an A game out of Rick and Wominyama to beat these Knicks the way that they're playing right now. Can we just to talk about Jalen Brunson for a second? Please. So I sent you these basketball reference searches I did. One was for regular season, had to play over 140 games with the Knicks. I wanted to include Kat and some other. stats. He's career regular

season average is 26.3 points per game. Only Bernard King and Bob McAdoo have averaged more as Knicks in that many games. He is currently ninth in all-time scoring already for the Knicks in the regular season. He will

if he stays with the Knicks, he probably will not, he's not going to catch Ewing, but he'll be number two all-time in regular season scoring. In playoffs, scoring, he is already number three. and points per game, 29.2, number one over Carmelo Anthony. And the advanced stats are he's even higher in those. And Towns has matched them in those in the playoffs in less games.

Like to the point of, you know, if they win the title, there will be, is Jalen Brunson already the greatest Nick of all time? Yeah. or or like let's say greatest nick since the 73 championship game championship team because two titles for a guy like Clyde Frazier is that's it yeah um but he is it's a conversation post that post walter frazier like with apologies i don't look i grew up on patrick viewing patrick he has 23000 career points as a nick jailette brunson has 7000 some um but at the very least it will be a conversation and if you care about longevity that much.

But if he carries them to the finish line and breaks the drought, the conversations are going to be deserved. And one of the conversations is going to be like, this is like up there with LeBron at the max to Miami and whatever other free agency signing you want as like the greatest signing in NBA history. Yeah, I think like, I heard Bill and Max Kellerman talking about this a little bit on their pod. And yeah, I don't think you can put him ahead of Clyde, maybe Willis Reed, two. They're both in the conversation, right, with the, with the championships and they've won and

just all of the accolades over multiple seasons. But when you look at everything, and like I'm a big picture, guys, Zach, like, of course I'll look at the stats and break those things down, but I like to talk about the cosmic significance of things. And to me, when you talk about Jalen Brunson, you know, signing with the Knicks, it was unharrooted at the time. time. You know, a lot of people even question if it was an overpay at the time. And the way that he has sort of single-handedly changed that entire franchise, it's been unassailable. And not only did he do that, then he takes less money on the next contract so that they are not in the cap hell that the Timberwolves were in and why they had to trade Carl Anthony Towns. And so they're better suited and

better position because of the way that Jalen Brunson is going about his business as a Nick. And then just all of the last second shots, the incredible game. And it's also, you look at it as, this is an undersized Rocky Balboa type guy. I know he's Philly, but like this is the kind of player who is unexpectedly great. And I think that New Yorkers, Nick fans, not only, you know, would you love to have LeBron in your uniform and do not. I'll, course you would but to have a guy like this of this stature with this kind of game emerge as a crunch time killer the way that he has and really just carry himself in a way that has completely changed the whole vibe and feel of what was a an embarrassing franchise quite frankly yeah he deserves

to at least have that conversation Patrick was there a lot longer but he wins it if he wins that title and what he's already done with everything else economically and vibes wise and all that, he of course belongs right in that conversation for best since the 70s. Yeah, it would be it would be hard. He's averaging 20, they just updated the stats. He's averaging 26.6 points per game in the playoffs. Six assists, two and a half turnovers, 46% shooting overall, 33% on threes. Towns is averaging 17 a game,

now up to 57% shooting, 48% on threes, 11 rebounds, 5 and a half assists, almost as many assists as Brunson, obviously the size of the rebounding. There's an argument to be made and the advanced stats would make it for you that Towns has been the best player on the Knicks in the playoffs.

It's hard for me to get all the way there with a near 10 point gap in scoring and just how clear it is that Brunson is the fulcrum of, the ball handling fulcrum anyway of the offense. And Towns has obviously had flirted with foul trouble here and there in some games. But I think, I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's close at the very least.

Like that's how good Towns has been on both ends of the floor. And you throw in the just sudden and dramatic uptick in his assists. He's been like 48% shooting on threes. He hasn't taken enough. But he's like, it's incredible. And you saw this up, so I will let you weigh in. But I've said this before.

I will always, I will, like, in the first round of the playoffs, there are eight series, so many series and so many games that I naturally and others sort of don't necessarily check out, but my attention level to detail when a series goes 3-0 for game four and beyond wanes a little bit. And one of the exceptions and one of the reasons I changed that, and now I'm I pay pretty as almost as detailed now for those series. Is that Minnesota Denver series in 2023? And I wrote it at the next year when they swept Phoenix.

I thought the last three games of that series were the turning point in town's career in the playoffs. Now, he fouled out of two of them, but he played 38 and 36 minutes. So it's not like he was just like fouling consistently. In games that probably history will not remember as consequential because it was a 30 series, games three, four, and five. Again, not spectacular. 27 points on 10 of 17, 17, 11 on 5 of 9, and then 26 on 9 of 17. But there was a new, just like the Memphis series before, he was so frenetic and in foul

trouble. And before that, he had only played one series. And I just thought those games, those games from afar seemed to mean something. Do you remember them? Do you remember thinking about them? Yeah, I do. Absolutely. And, like, I think that people who are familiar,

with me and people are not like I've covered him since he came into the league um I generally have been a cat guy and even when a lot of people have not been a cat guy just because I've seen all of the things that he had to endure in Minnesota both personally front office wise coaching wise all of that stuff and Jimmy Butler wise all of that and um and Jimmy Butler wise yeah he's a good way to put it you know he just kept his head above all of that fray and kept going and so I always respected that about him. But in that series in particular, they were not the better team. Like, they were going to lose that series. That was clear. But the way that he found kind of a composure and an ability to take some of, you know, we call it stray voltage here in Minneapolis

about, you know, kind of the way he is frenetic in times. And I do think he turned a corner. And then it carried over into the next year because a cut one, you know, two other things that have been lost to history, they swept Phoenix in the first round. And in game four, they were, Booker and Durant were playing great. Ant was not playing great. And the only reason that they swept them and finished that off was because Kat was terrific through the first three and a half quarters and just kept them in the game until the cavalry arrived. Then you get to game seven against Denver in that second round and Ant hits the big three. three, Rudy hits the turnaround shot.

There's a bunch of other, a bigger highlight plays. But Kat was the one who was scoring and playing within himself throughout it to keep the game from completely getting away. And that was his ability, and that's been in his ability in these playoffs too. And I just think that this one in particular, where if you want to separate him from Brunson a little bit, defensively, that makes up for the 10 point gap to me in scoring. what he's doing right now on Victor Wenbanyama, what he did on Yokic against Denver, what he did on Kevin Duran against Phoenix. He has that ability to do it. It just hit it hadn't been done consistently.

And now we're seeing it every single night. And it's another level of Carl Anthony Towns, one that I thought that he would get to. But to see it actually happen here in real time has been remarkable. like to see just like everything that he's doing on both sides of the court, including, you know, that one play defensively in the fourth quarter where Castle comes in, it's two men. Kat is guarding two guys at the same time, and he forces Castle to make the bad pass to that OG intercepts. Oh, that's right, yeah.

That's not going to show up in the statute. No one's going to remember that when you look back, it's not going to be on the highlight reel, but Kat holding his ground and being in the right place, those little things that he's doing, now. I just make his game so much more effective and impactful. And I agree with you. It started in Denver in 2023 in a series that they lost in five games. And that was the one, that's the one where Nas Reid is out and Jada McDaniels is out, right? That series is right? Correct. Yeah, yeah, both of those guys were out. Yep. So it's funny before I remember writing this like before he had played 13 playoff games before game three of that series.

And I think two play-in games, so 15 total games, and included in those games were an eight-point game, a five-point game, an eight-point game, an 11-point game, a 10-point game. And I think in one of the play-in games, it's another, which is not showing up in the game log because those games effectively don't exist. I think one of them is in another single-digit game. The Clipper game was terrible playing, yep. Yeah, that's right.

And then since then, you know, look, the shot's going to go up and down, right? like against Dallas and the conference finals in 24. He didn't shoot it very well. But he's been pretty goddamn steady in the playoffs. And, and, you know, this playoffs has been, I mean, spectacular. Any concluding thoughts, John Krasinski. I mean, I just think that I've been thrilled with the first two games just in terms of the competitiveness of them. How intense it is.

I'm not in that building, but you can just feel it coming off of the screen. like how physical these teams have been, how they're going at each other, no lead is safe. And yeah, the Knicks go home 2 and O. But the quality of play, even though the games haven't been like beautiful in terms of a ton of efficiency and shot making stuff, it's beautiful to me in terms of like these two teams are standing in the middle of the ring and throwing punches at each other's faces and not getting out of the way and see who's standing at the end of it. Like that's what it's been. And that's like old school, awesome, highly entertaining basketball. I hope we get four more of these at least.

Like, I mean, that's just been how much fun I'm having watching these games. Yeah, I was at game one. I left San Antonio to do some family stuff today. And I'll be back at the garden going forward. But it was a 10 point game in the end. And I was talking to people after games. Like, that was one of the most intense environment. I've ever been in for a game.

And everyone agreed. Everyone was like, yeah, I don't know. It's game one. It's not game seven. It's not like it was Cavs Warriors 2016 when I felt like I was going to combust on press row. But it was really, really intense. And part of the Knicks fans in the crowd added to the atmosphere, added to the sort

of heat in the atmosphere. It's been awesome. All right, John Grisinski, like just one of my favorite guys to talk hoops with covers the wolves, but covers the general NBA too for the athletic. Thank you for staying up with me. Where can people find your stuff as we gear into a potentially interesting Minnesota, Timberwolves offseason? Yeah, I appreciate it. We have at the athletic.com, you can find all my wolf stuff.

I have the John Krasinski show on Talk North, weekly Wolves Talk. And there's going to be a super intriguing summer to see what they do to try to keep up with the Spurs, Thunder, and Nicks. I think they're going to make some moves. So come on over there and check it out. And we'll see. You know, I'll have a bunch of more cat stuff coming throughout this series, I think, from afar as well. So a lot of stuff going on here. Great. All right, John, thank you so much for your time, bud.

I'll see you down the road. It's always great to talk to you. Thanks, Zach. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old.

You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. All right. it for a late night edition of the Zach Lowe show. Get some rest. Hug your

family. We got two days before game three of this sensational so far finals. Can the Spurs get back into it or is this a march to a historic New York Knicks title? Thank you to John Grisinski of the Athletic, of course. Thank you to Jonathan and Michael

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