The Zach Lowe Show - The MSG Miracle! OG’s Tip, the Spurs' Collapse, and a Finals MVP Debate!

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Zach is joined by Ian Begley to try to make sense of the Knicks' miraculous Game 4 comeback. They discuss OG Anunoby’s tip-in, debate who the MVP should be, and question what the Spurs need to do moving forward. Finally, they try to contextualize the run that this Knicks team is on. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (1:57) Ian Begley joins the show! (4:36) What will you remember most from this game? (10:52) On Josh Hart's end-of-game play (25:51) It will be difficult for the Spurs to recover from this (33:12) Should Anunoby be the Finals MVP if the Knicks win? (47:37) Is Zach responsible for the Knicks' success? (49:42) What has led to Jalen Brunson’s success? (52:59) Do the Spurs need to move on from De’Aaron Fox? (1:01:46) Is there a historical comp for this Knicks team? Host: Zach Lowe Guest: Ian Begley Producers: Mike Wargon, Jonathan Frias, and Billy Gil Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Visit neweracap.com for 20% off, exclusions apply. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. On the Zach Lowe show, Did that just happen? Do we all witnessed that in Madison Square Garden? Was that a dream? The New York Knicks, 53 years after their last championship, overcame a 29 point deficit to win game four

and come within one win of their first title in those 53 years? What a scene. Ian Begley was there too with me. We talk about everything from the game, the scene, the post game scene, the post game interviews. O.G.N. and O. with two iconic plays in the span of like five seconds of basketball time and two minutes of real time. Dearon Fox, what in the world were you thinking?

Victor Wenbanyama, where were you in the second half? Well, three or fourteen, he was somewhere. How did the Knicks do this? Jalen Brunson came alive. O.G. and Nobby just on the heater of a lifetime. How did the Knicks figure out the Spurs defense? Do the Spurs have any hope going back to San Antonio? can they recover from one of the all-time gut-punch losses in the history of sports, basically?

Yeah, in the history of sports, I'll say it. We talk about all that. We talk about the Knicks and how this playoff run is basically completely anomalous in the history of the NBA. I don't even know how to contextualize this team. Finals MVP. It's a little premature, but we talk about it anyway. Just both of us are hungover on vibes and no sleep from a magical night at a Madison Square Garden. a night to spurs are going to regret forever.

But I expect the spurs to come out and make the Knicks earn it in San Antonio. And if they get back to MSG, oh, my God, is game six going to be tense? All of that coming up on the Zach Lowe show with Ian Begley. Do the Zach Lowe show. Oh, my God. Ian Begley is here from SNY, and we just saw the damnedest thing we might ever see in our NBA lives. The New York Knicks star crossed, cursed, uncursed, one win away from their first title in 53 years. After the craziest comeback in the history of the NBA playoffs, the Spurs blow a 29-point lead in the second half.

O.G. and Obie becomes a god in New York City. With a block on Deerrin Fox, the Knicks are down one in the waning seconds. all DeAaron Fox has to do is hold the ball. And instead he tries to quick shoot a layup for reasons nobody will ever understand. The second all-time brain fart turnover that has happened to the Spurs in this series, a series where the total score is Knicks plus eight after four games. The other one was the Wembee turnover in game two. Who knows what Deeran Fox was thinking?

Bill Simmons even texted me, do you think he forgot what the score was and thought it was tied? Anything's possible. And then out of the timeout, inbound. to Brunson. Wemby has switched on him. They're not guarding OG, who's the impounder. And when Wemby got on to Jalen Brunson, I thought, okay, like, I can live if I'm the Spurs. I know Wemby's big, but he's not Ruehobary's more mobile. And they send a double anyway. The best defensive player in the planet is on a guy who's an all-time great offensive

player that he's a foot taller than basically even more a foot and a half. They send the double. OG reads it, rises up for the game-winning tip, absolutely iconic. the New York Knicks Ian Begley, who have had their fair share of iconic shots in their history, but the most iconic shots in New York Knicks history are shots that have happened to them, are things that have happened at their expense in that building.

And now they have a moment that is all their own that will go down if they ride this out and finish it as I think the greatest most iconic offensive play shot, whatever, in the history of the Knicks. and then the Spurs inbound the ball and I'll tell you Ian Begley, I was standing and watching, I didn't even realize Cat tipped the inbounds pass and he tipped it, the clock ran out, just absolute bedlam.

What are you going to remember from this game for the rest of your life, whether it's a play, it's a scene, it's a vibe, like we were there, what a privilege to be there. It's our fucking job to be at that game. Are you kidding me? Right. What are you always going to remember?

You know, so much on the court's going to stand out, but just for me, I don't know, this is a little, maybe strange to the common viewer. But I'm at, I'm at the garden for every game. And always, always, always there are fans after the game who want to take pictures with the court behind them, who want to kind of mill around and soak it in. And the usher's jobs are to get everybody out of there. So, you know, five, ten minutes after the game, they're getting everybody out. Hey, you got to go.

It's time to leave, no more. and so they're breaking up whatever kind of party there is in the stands after a game. There was not that last night, Zach, as you know, because 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes, a half hour after that game, the court was filled with fans. The stands were filled with fans. The garden was playing Don't Stop Believing. They were playing some Frank Sinatra. Everybody singing along.

It's a big party. And the security guards were not telling anyone to leave. and it was just kind of emblematic of how special that moment was and how much people are going to kind of grasp onto that moment and talk about it for years to come. It's just one of those things that struck me because especially at Madison Square Garden, security gardens have a job to do and it's a specific job to do, tough job to do. I think even they were caught up in the moment and just let everybody hang out and yeah, just a special, special night. That's exactly what my would be. MSG turned into a karaoke bar for 30 minutes after the game. Almost nobody left.

Every song that played, everyone was singing along. And when they weren't singing, they were just chanting, OG, OG, OG, OG. And as I finally left to go down to the press room, so I'm going down the escalators with all the fans, that OG chant is happening. All the fans are going up and down the escalators chanting that. Then they start singing like the soccer song. That's usually O'A, O'A, O'G, O'G, O'G, O'G, O'G. And then on the walk back from the garden, somewhere around like 28th and 7th, I don't know what, I couldn't even tell what was in the middle of the road,

but about 500 fans had commandeered that intersection and were climbing on lampposts and climbing on things. It was just a party. Good on the Knicks for letting the karaoke party happen. Yeah. An absolutely unforgettable scene. I don't think I've ever heard the garden loud. than it was when OG tipped that ball in.

And just, I mean, I, you, and think about how the day started, Ian. I lost count of how many press releases got into my inbox about whether there was going to be a watch party or not, and whose fault it was. I lost count of how many clips I saw of James Dolan on WFAN saying various inflammatory things. And then Kat commits two,

fouls in 65 seconds. I thought both of them were shaky calls. I didn't love either of them. We can litigate them if you want. The NBA has to be breathing a giant sigh of relief that the officiating is not the number one story after that game. I thought both were shaky calls. If you if you called it quote unquote correctly a hundred times out of 100, I think he probably ends up with one foul, not two like one ends up being a no call. I hated the proximate foul where we can go back and relitigate something that may or may not have even affected the thing that we're challenging the foul on Wembe Nama that becomes a foul on cat.

Great challenge by the Spurs. You have that. You have, even at the end of the game, Deeran Fox turnover and Deeran Fox had a terrible second half. The Spurs had a terrible second half. Wembe Nama had a terrible second half. Three of 14, stopped rolling to the rim as much, stop forcing the action as much.

Deeran Fox commits a turnover with the Knicks down one. And Josh Hart streaks out and everyone is on their feet. And here they're going to get over the hump. And here they're going to take the lead. And Josh Hart, here's some footsteps, gets caught between a layup and a dunk, and somehow blows that layup. And that's going to be the defining play of Josh Hart's career for better or worse. And then when Banyama comes down and gets fouled and misses two free throws,

and then the game goes on from there. Just an absolutely chaotic finish. And I don't even know, like, I don't even know where to go. Where do you want to go at the end of the game? Well, let me just start with where you started because, you know, Jim Dolan, he was, you know, on a streak of such positive PR. And then, you know, he got divisive with the last two games at the Garden. And I was just thinking as they're down 27 and then 29 and even 20 in the fourth quarter,

just the narratives around what it was going to be around here we go, again, James Dolan and the Knicks. They owe and two at home with everything that was going on. It just, I could see that coming a mile away. And obviously no one's talking about that now. They're talking about OG and OB. They're talking about the Knicks being one win away. So that, that stuck out to me from the beginning of the day.

And then, you know, you talk about Josh Hart, man, I don't know if you were in there after the game, Zach, but he's usually kind of smiley joking around, especially after a win. And he was that. He was, he was light after the game. But he talked about OG and OB and OB and OB and he said, I have to give a special shout out to OG and Nomi because he, you know, saved essentially his basketball life with that play, with the play that he made. And when he said that, he was dead serious, like the look on his face. It was almost like he was emotional because he knows the city. He knows the league. He knows how things get digested. And that would have been something that you couldn't live down.

It would have been a Charles Smith situation. If the Knicks had lost that game and then gone on to lose the series, that's it. Again, you bring up Charles Smith, right? And it's what I said before. Like, did Knicks have big playoff points? Willis Reed coming out of the locker room makes a jump around one leg. Ewing's put back against Indiana. Starks is dunk.

Even more recently, Brunson shot to close out the pistons. Devenzo's bang against the Sixers. But so many of the Knicks' iconic moments. are things that had befallen them. And there were like four different things that could have fit that category in this game, including Hart missing that layup. And then I don't even like eventually they take the lead.

Brunson hits a floater to put them up by one. Castle gets fouled after Josh Hart misses a box out. That's the other thing. I don't know if he missed the box out so much on yet another Fox Miss as he was concerned with Wembe Nama more than Castle. Like he kind of, he kind of sandwiched Wembenyama, who's obviously the biggest officer.

into rebounding for that, but it left Castle naked. Castle makes both three throws again. And I was walking back to your point, right before Josh went into the press area, I was walking back toward that area. And he was like in that little doorway up the stairs waiting to go in. And he saw me. And I know Josh a little bit and he made eye kind.

He's like, hey, what's up? And we, I shook his hand and, and we talked a little bit for a minute. And he was like shell shocked. He was not like celebrating. He looked like a little bit out of it. And then I saw the comments and I wasn't surprised that that he said that because he's, look, he's an all time beloved Nick already. Just the way he plays is so fans gravitate to it.

But those are moments that can define your career. And unfortunately, Deerrin Fox suffered one that will define his career. It's absolutely inexplicable. But please go on, talk about Josh and the aftermath of the game. Yeah, just he was, it was an emotional moment, it seemed like for him. and because he knows, he knows what would have stuck with him and how that love that he feels deservedly so from Nick fans and how he's held in such a high regard. You know, that would have been decimated fairly or not by that moment, by the mislayup

and the box out. You want to throw that one in there, the missed box out. It was just a really bad sequence. And, and yeah, that just really stuck with me. And then Zach, you know, the spurs, they just kept shooting three. And I'm sitting next to Vince Goodwill, ESPN, and we're scratching our heads. We keep saying, you don't need to shoot that shot. We're on offense.

And I just wonder, I wonder what you think. Because when Minyama, he gets the flagrant, right? And then he becomes one flagrant away from a suspension. A flagrant that he almost could have had in the previous game, when they ruled that he didn't get an upgrade, which I guess he just can do anything and not get upgraded after the fact, like he didn't get fined even for decapitating Nas Reed. And that became relevant because finally they call him for another proper flagrant when he elbowed Carl Anthony Towns in the jaw.

And immediately I was like, wait a second, that means he would be suspended for game five if he had been upgraded to a flagrant the previous game. I think that math is right, correct? Yes. Yeah, that's correct. And also it meant that he was a flagrant away from getting suspended, even not even not going back to game three with the retroactive call. So did that change the way he played? because it seemed like he was a little bit less aggressive, less rolling to the rim, the Spurs weren't going to him.

Did you sense that that changed anything for him? It seemed to change something for the team to me. So I saw that Bill on his live pod last night called it the greatest slash worst choke in the history of the NBA playoffs. And it was a strange choke job. And it was. And look, that takes nothing away from the Knicks. Let's be clear.

Like, the Nix, Jalen Brunson and O'GN and Obie. By the way, one of the stats of the series, the Knicks have 102 points in the fourth quarter in this series through four games. Ananoi and Brunson have 72 of those 102 points. Like they're just the whole entire offense in the fourth quarter. And when you have a 29 point lead in the second half and the other team comes back and wins, it's both. It's the other team plays sensationally well, play smart basketball,

started to find some ways to poke again at the semi zone, whatever the spurs are doing with Wembenyama. and it's also the spurs just collapsed. And to your point about Wembe, he started rolling to the rim less often and less aggressively for sure. Not all the time. There are some hard roles in there, but I don't think it's a coincidence that two of Fox's four turnovers,

all of which were horrendous in the second half, all four of his turnovers were in the second half, were passes where he expected Wembe Nama to be somewhere on the role that he wasn't, and he ended up just passing it to the Nix. And that combined with all the threes. And I rewatched the second half last night and just noted like seven or eight horrible quick threes that I thought this first took quick. Like Dylan Harper,

Dylan Harper, you don't need to be taking a step back three in isolation with 12 on the shot clock. Julian Champany, you don't need to be pulling up for a contested three in transition with 19 on the shot clock and a 25 point lead, not open contested, just terrible shots. The play where it became a red, the flag went from red to scarlet to me with like 455 left in the game, Fox is dribbling the air out of the ball. And Wembe comes to set a screen for him. And I'm sitting, it's right below me where I am in the Hyundai chase whatever bridge up there.

And I see Darren Fox tell Victor Wemanyama to go away. I don't want to pick from you. I want to pick from somebody else. And at that moment, I'm like, oh my God, he's waving away. the 7-5 monster who's been an unstoppable rolling to the rim for big chunks of the series. What is he going to do? He calls up Champany because Champany has Brunson on him. And that's Deeran Fox being like, I got this.

I'm the vet. I got this. Wemby, you go away. And as he's doing that, I'm like, I can't believe he has the audacity to waive him to Wemby now away. OG gets through. OG, by the way, on top of all this is guarding Fox for most of the fourth quarter. It's through the screen.

And Fox takes a contested step back to just terrible, terrible process by the Spurs throughout that entire time. And I do wonder, quick turnaround, tons of minutes, fatigue factor, mental fatigue, physical fatigue, all the banging around they're doing. Did that contribute to Wemby kind of fading out? I think you finished, what, nine. I think he was three of 14 from the floor in the fourth quarter, nine of 25 for the game. But you know what it reminded me of? another Knicks game, actually. The first two Knicks Celtics games, particularly game one last year,

when the Celtics just let a giant lead, let the Knicks walk them down bit by bit by bit and kept taking threes. And what I set up for that game was these teams who get big leads like this, I know it's in your DNA to shoot a lot of threes, not as much for the Spurs as it is for the Missoula Ball Celtics. When you have a big lead like that, the only way you can lose is by piling up zeros on your possessions. Like the upside of getting a three versus a two or even a one from a free throw is outweighed by the downside of getting a zero.

Just go to the rim, get fouled three or four extra times and you have enough of a cushion to win this game. Just terrible process by the spurs. And the Knicks made him pay for it. I was like you. I was like watching these threes. Remember that one possession where Fox missed the three and then Wembe took two straight threes on offensive rebounds. And it's like, what are we doing, man? Come on.

Yeah. And the crazy thing too, Zach. is the spurs were in the bonus. I don't, I want, it was more than four minutes left in the game. I don't know if it was five or six, but they were in the boat. They had the Knicks, excuse me, the Knicks committed five fouls. I think five or six minutes left to go in the game. So if San Antonio goes to the basket or even if they drive aggressively,

draw anything, they're going to the line. And I think Carl Anthony Towns, maybe I'm wrong. I thought he had five at some point in the fourth. and that's another, you know, reason to go attack the rim. And they just didn't. And I don't know, like, how much of that is on Mitch Johnson. I don't know where you put the blame, Darren Fox takes a lion's share of it. But I want to point out here, because I know it hit you when it was happening,

the Jose Alvarado substitution nine minutes and changed to go in the fourth. I mean, the thinking from Mike Brown on that and then the execution, from Alvarado, a guy who, they traded for him. They liked him a lot, but he was out of the rotation for stretches of late in the regular season. And it looked like he was going to be

on the outside looking into the playoff rotation. And here he is fourth quarter in the middle of a historic comeback and playing a significant role in the comeback. I'm so glad you brought him up and I'm switching to my third coffee of the morning because it's that kind of morning. Alvarado was sensational off the bench for the second time in four games in this series,

help swing a game. And I think, you know, in the second half, like Robinson and McBride have been their two most important bench players for the season. And both of them have been more or less invisible in the series. And I thought Mitchell Robinson finally started to get into the series a little bit in the third quarter. When Kat got another foul and he had to play more, he got a lob dunk. He missed a couple of lob dunks and it makes you wonder he was shaking his hand at one point if that injury is hurting him. But the Brunson Robinson Pick and Roll also got Brunson with shooting all around. It got Brunson going a little bit.

And so finally, you know, we went into the series talking about like worst case scenarios for the Knicks. Cat foul trouble. Robinson injury. Holy shit. Does this become a Huck 40? So hand. Are we stealing minutes within an obadiate center? All of that came to be.

It was a disaster. And then it's stabilized. and Robinson kind of played his way into the series a little bit. And then McBride has not, but Jose Alvarado kind of became the Deuce McBride substitute. And why I thought he was so good in this game was the spurs are doing this funky zone with Wembe Njama, where he's not really guarding anybody.

Sometimes he's guarding cat. Sometimes he's guarding nobody. Sometimes he's guarding an area. And it's requiring the Knicks to sort of puzzle out. How do we want to bring him into the action? How do we want to attack him? How do we want to move off the ball as we're doing that? And that's where Alvarado's IQ, both on and off the ball, just really shine.

He had, he made that crazy layup where he fake spun and got to the rim. He relocated for a couple threes. But he cut to the, the Knicks have been really good, and it will be in particular at as the spurs are figuring out their rotations and where Wembe Nyama is and what corner he's closest to. And the Knicks get into their action, sending guys right down the slot as cutters, right to the rim. Ananoi has been the best at this, but Alvarado did it too. To just make the spurs have to account for another guy at the basket at the right moment to make

Wembe Nama be like, oh, wait a second, somebody's here. I can't go out there. And they've gotten a lot of corner threes out of action. By the way, one of the other stats in this series, the Knicks led the league this year, 12.9% of their shot attempts were corner threes. 17.5% of their shots in this series have been corner threes. And they're shooting 45% on corner threes. It's about, they built with this kind of intention. And we'll talk more about that. But you're dead right on Alvarado.

And what a story, man, a New Yorker, a Knicks fan, a fan favorite, a pest. And like you said, is he going to be in the rotation? Is he out of the rotation? Is he break in case of emergency? Well, he was in game one when Brunson went out with an injury briefly. And he's just up for it, man. It's a fantastic story. It is. And again, like, I don't want to say he was counted out, but he would, I don't want to say played his way out of the rotation because that's too harsh. But whatever it was, Mike Brown really went away from him in a major way in the regular season and staying ready and being present. And that's what these guys have talked about a lot during that 13 game winning street. And just generally, they always talk about, you know, it's zero, zero. Whatever the series is, it's zero.

in their heads. And it sounds like a cliche, right? But then you go to last night and they're down 27 at the half. And after the game, we're asking them about, you know, what do you talk about in the locker room and, and, you know, what's the messaging? And Alvarado said his thing was, let's just play the right way. Let's play hard because, you know, whatever we do in the second half here, win or lose, it could carry over into game five. Carl Anthony Town was talking about they have the experience on these comebacks. He referenced the Boston game. he said in that halftime locker room. Oh, okay. I didn't, I didn't hear him say that. That's interesting.

Yeah. And Jalen Brunson said, you know, just hit singles, hit singles, hit singles. And it's not going to happen all at once, but, you know, done this before. And look, all that stuff sounds hokey to us, guys who have heard these cliches and heard these stories from teams, you know, across the league. But it seems like the Knicks truly have embraced that, have embraced the idea that they can come back because they've done it before. And they know that it's possession by possession, chipping away, chipping away. And so it's just interesting to hear the messaging that in that halftime locker room,

considering everything that was at stake and considering how the game played out. I like Jill and Brunson's like, let's just hit singles, hit singles. They're going to whiff. Like we were relying on the relying on them to like whiff, whiff, we'll hit singles. O.G. and Obie was like, how about I just hit Grand Slam home runs? Forget, forget, forget singles. I'll hit Grand Slam home runs. I loved the crowd was phenomenal.

Like they were, they were waiting. It was such a much better crowd than game three. They were down 29. There were, they were deflated, but they were also just waiting. They never booed. They never like, never got too quiet. And they were just waiting for give us a reason to get back. Like they're chanting, let's go Knicks down 27,

trying to lift up the players. And they're just waiting. to get back in the game. And by the time it got to 15, and it didn't get, it didn't take that long to get it down to 15. Plenty of time left in the game. Crowd is already rabid by that time.

And you got the sense like, this is a thousand percent in play. It became in, like, by the time it got to 19, 18, you're like, oh my God, there's like 18 minutes left in the game. This is completely in play. I've seen this team do crazy things before.

I thought the crowd was great. And to your point about how the Spurs were game five, this feels unrecoverable for San Antonio in the moment, right? And did you see Wenbanyama's post-game presser last night? I wasn't in there, no. You had to go to the next stuff. He said the right things about how we can go one of two ways here. We can fall apart or we can come together and get stronger out of this.

Just looking at him in the room, he did not look like someone who had a ton of faith that they would take the way he wants them to take. He said he did, but he looked visibly shaken in that press conference, as you would expect. Yeah. How can you not think? That's the moment. Zooming out, I said this after game three. The power of home court advantage is that if the spurs came here and got a split, and they did,

they have game five at home and a chance to win a home game, just win a home game. and force the Knicks to come back here after this delirious win and suddenly face the pressure of, we have to win this game or we're going to another road game in game seven. Like the Spurs, disaster to lose the first two at home, particularly game two the way they did. The power of home court and five and seven at home is the split keeps you alive. They are alive.

The Knicks have to be careful. And I expect the Knicks to play well and not have any kind of letdown or any kind of casualness to them. But I do worry that the circumstances of this game, they're less alive than they would be if they just had lost like a normal five-point game. I mean, that is, that's beyond a gut punch. And, but I will say this. Like, if you ask me how I think game five is going to go, I think the Knicks will win.

I picked the Knicks in seven. I think that that loss is such a bad loss that I don't know how the Spurs recover. But over and over, both of these teams in different circumstances, like the spurs responding from losses, the Knicks with a giant layoff, right? The Spurs responding from devastating losses. They come out and they play well and they play close games.

I don't think this Spurs team doesn't strike me as a we're going to let go of their rope and collapse kind of team even after a game like that. I do think the Knicks will win game five, but I think it'll be a good game. I think both teams will play well. Yeah, I do think it'll be a good game.

And I think, you know, Wemingama, I mean, everyone was great. on San Antonio in the first half, but he was really, really good just around the basket, the way he was finishing shots and the way he was moving. It just looked like it was going to be a special NBA moment for him early in his career. And so I would assume that he can pick up there game five. Nicks obviously have played well on the road. I don't think that that crowd is going to bother them. But San Antonio is not going to lay down. They're not. They've got. young guys who have a lot of pride and confidence in their ability.

And for a while there, obviously, game four of the first half, it just looked like they were so loose, like young and loose in a way that maybe a veteran team wouldn't be realizing the magnitude of the moment. And they were just firing on all cylinders. So I think you have every reason to believe that they maybe cannot get back to there, operating at that level. But there's a middle ground between the second. half in the first half that I'm sure they'll be able to find that they'll make things tough for

the Knicks in game five. But, Zach, you hit on the crowd. And I just want to say that, yeah, that game three crowd, I think they were taken out of the game. And they didn't really, they did not try to rally the Knicks in that, and in that second half. But it was so different in game four because they were just, they wanted a reason to explode. They wanted a reason to cheer. And as you said, They believe in this team. They believe that it's possible down 29. They really truly believe it. It wasn't just like, hey, let's get it to 12 and have some fun.

The crowd is like, who the fuck knows with this team? Exactly, exactly. And you said it, but they were down like 24 and the place was alive. And so I think that's a, that is a sign of belief because, you know, I just, sometimes I look at Jalen Brunson's shooting numbers in any game, not necessarily playoff game. And if they're a little off, and I think to myself, man, if Julius Randall had that line, he would be getting booed out of the gym.

But this fan base has a faith in this team. Thumbs down. Thumbs down, baby. Yeah, thumbs down. That's that they've earned. And so there's a faith and a confidence in their, the company, it's competency of this group. And I think that's what the fan base kind of has latched on to here in a way that you didn't see. Even Carmelo Anthony, if he had some of the shooting lines that Brunson has had, he would have gotten booed. vociferously. And Brunson, he just earned the confidence of this fan base.

To your point about the Spurs, we'll see what their poise level is, their youth and all that. Castle didn't play a great game. Five thousand only played 26 minutes. I didn't think he was bad. He didn't shoot well from the field, but like you put that guy at the line in a big situation. He puts them up by one again making clutch free throws. Champany, one of seven from three, missed a couple of open ones in the fourth quarter. Like, that's going to happen. He's not that young anyway. Vassell quietly 18. 14.6 of 9 shooting. Dylan Harper just outstanding off the bench and is and it will get to this later, but is already creating some big picture questions for this team and for Dearen Fox right,

right off the bat with his, his play. So the young guys, you know, I more or less did their job. I think the Knicks played great. Wemby is the other young guy who did not do his job in the second half and Fox at a total meltdown. Let's take a break and we're going to talk about my friends and Neighbors co-star, O'GNan and Obie. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by Fandul. It'll all come down to this. Who do you think will be wearing the ring at the end of the NBA finals? Make your call with Fandul.

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dot com slash ringer to shop now and use the one-time code ringer for 20% off your first order. Okay, today's finals MVP discussion is presented by State Farm on the court, especially in the finals. You can't expect everything to go as planned from upsets to buzzer beaters. Uncertainty is just part of the game and life's no different. Unexpected things happen. That's why State Farm is there with the assist. But more on that later for now, I'm here to assist you with the NBA playoffs.

Someone who needs no assist is OGN and OB. What a what a playoffs for OG and and Obie. He's averaging 21 points, six rebounds. Here's this playoff shooting splits. This is for the whole playoffs, not this series, 21 points a game. 58% shooting, 51% on threes, 64% on twos. In the finals, he is averaging 24 points a game on 58% shooting and 57% on threes. and despite averaging five and a half points less than Jalen Brunson,

three and change assists less than Jalen Brunson. And Jalen Brunson having big moments in games one and two in San Antonio. I think the finals MVP right now would be O.GN and Obie with a bullet. And he represents so much about how this team is built. They targeted him specifically for and gave away our, traded away R.J. Barrett and Emmanuel quickly, two first round picks that they really liked and were proud of.

And, and, you know, look, like, a trade that some people, some people, you can find the takes. And we all have wrong takes, including me saying that the wolves won the Carl Anthony Towns trade. We're going to erase that from the internet. It didn't happen. Nobody said that. You can find people who said,

Amanda quickly was the best player in that trade. I vociferously disagreed. And they targeted OG and Ninobe for his size in his three-point shooting, starting there. And the size in particular really matters because, you know, the whole Becky Hammond thing, right? Like Jalen Brunty, you can't win a title with a six-foot-nothing guy as your best player.

I think I told you this earlier this week. I went back and watched some of those clips on the day after she said that. She was on MBA today rehashing her doubling down. And who's on the show? Me! I forgot that I had been on the show. And I had this take where I was like, look, I don't think any of these things are absolute, right?

I said I think Chris Paul could have won a title as the best player. Isaiah Thomas did win a title is the best player. I think it's certainly if you had your pick of like superstars at the superstar grocery store, you would pick a taller guy to be our best player, but you don't get to pick that. You got him in free agency in one of the all-time great free agency signings. Then you build the team around him. You don't get Donovan Mitchell for whatever reason, right? The trade falls apart.

He goes somewhere else. You worry about the small guard, small guard thing. What you do is surround him with size everywhere to protect him, to protect cat in the end. And those three gigantic wings, Hart, who's not that gigantic, but plays like eight feet taller than he is. And Anobie and Bridges, not a bridge's game, but he's been fine in the playoffs since the Hawk series. And Annanobie, they're just, it's a perfectly constructed two, three, four around a small point guard in every possible way. Bridges and OG, A plus defenders and good shooters. OG a great shooter now.

Hart just does all the other stuff and is the secondary playmaker that Bridges, frankly, has not been in this series. He had glimpses of it here and there in the playoffs, and particularly in the Philly series and the Cleveland series, not this series. But, I mean, that OG and an OB trade was a almost a challenge trade. We think he's just the perfect guy for this particular team and we're willing to give up these two guys to get him.

and it's just impossible to overstate how amazing he's been in the whole playoffs. I don't even know what else to say. He literally can't play better than this. You can't. And Zach, I don't know. We probably got into this at the time, but, you know, they resign him to that big deal. And it wasn't as simple as we traded for you. Obviously, you know, we're going to make you a big offer and you're going to come back.

There was, you know, moments there in that. agency where it was touch and go. The Knicks felt like it was touching go. You know, the Sixers were right there and the Knicks had to be more aggressive with what they were offering. And they did that. And obviously, it's worked out perfectly for them. But it's just interesting how many things have to fall right into place for you to have this kind of success to be at this level. But Ninobe has been fantastic. And certainly, if the Knicks win the finals, unless anything way out of the ordinary happens, he will be the finals MVP,

and he has earned it with his play. And the shooting, I want to know, and I don't know if you know, Zach, you brought up the corner threes, the shooting percentage. I would love to know what he's shooting from the corners because he's hit like late clock threes from the corners. He's just been unbelievable.

And then, you know, the defense is what you expect from him, night in and night out. And, you know, if he doesn't block that box shot, we're speaking differently about Deerrin Fox, obviously, and the game goes much differently. So that block probably gets overlooked, but it's just, it typifies his effort and his skill on the defensive end. And it's something that's really propelled the Nick defense from a very bad place they were in the middle of the year to a very strong defense. Zach, I want to give you credit real quick because you came on my show, the putback, which is on S&Y. Everyone should watch the putback.

It's outstanding on S&Y. Like if the Mets are playing bad, just cue up the putback and watch you in and talk about the Nix. Well, especially when Zach is on. Because, Zach, you said to me it was in March. The Nix were struggling. I was kind of stuck in the depths of Nix Twitter where everybody was saying like, this team's done.

I'm done with the team, blow it up. I was right there with everybody because I'm a cynic. But you came on the show and you said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. relax this is a good team this is a talented team this is a team that people should have faith in and you have faith when no one else did and here we are today uh with them on the precipice of winning a title do you remember what you were seeing then that that allowed you to see what could be here when a lot of people couldn't so i was guilty of i had a weird relationship with

this season's nix i've talked about it a lot i picked them to make the finals and they would they would have times when they would find it. And it is the blender, the vibe, the ball movement, the defense. And then times, particularly in January, when they went two and nine and an 11 game stretch and the pistons waxed them twice and all that, where they just kind of lost it. And in that January stretch, that's when I said, I think, I think, I think the wolves won the town straight because his salary is so big and it doesn't look like it's happening. But what I said was the Knicks could win the title and this could end up being an all-time

stupid take by me. And it looks like that's what's going to happen. But despite that, and Towns was so much of the focus on the, of the criticism at that time, right? There was all this reporting, like, are they actually going to trade towns? Like, is that back on the table? Despite that, I just kept coming back to, like, who am I picking in the East over this team? Who, as raggedy as they were in that stretch. And then they picked it up, their defense started to trend.

And what I talked about in March with you, and if you go back and watch my live show from Brooklyn, around that same time. That whole show was like a pep talk to Knicks fans who were like so down to the dumpside. I was like, who are you taking over this team? Like Boston, Boston is the only one that I would be scared of. They had rediscovered a little bit of that verve with the ball. Towns had gotten out of it.

Their defense was trending. I think at that time they were like one of three teams with top seven offense, top seven defense. I'm like, I know it's been the losses are loud, right? Some of the losses were really loud. But the trend lines were. there. And that Spurs game, ironically, in March when they destroyed the Spurs at MSG, that was kind of a proof of concept game again to me. But, hey, I don't want to talk about,

like, fine. It's been a weird season for the Knicks, but here they are. And an Obie, I don't know what he's shooting on corner threes. I do know that he leads the entire NBA and true shooting percentage for the playoffs. So whatever it is, it's extremely high. And he even that is self-created like pick and roll step back three last night. Yeah. And no, Zach, just quickly on him, like there was, there's always been the rubblings out there when he was in Toronto that he wanted this bigger offensive role. He thought he could do more. He wanted to do more. And he's doing it, but it's not as if he's doing it while kind of while pounding the balls of the floor or, you know, doing it outside of the flow of this nick offense, but he's doing it.

And he's showing he's validating those feelings if they were real in Toronto. I think. think they were. They were. That he was right. I talked to him when he was in Toronto. He was one of my, you know, how many seasons ago, I don't know. But I used to do this column for a certain website called my five or six most intriguing players for the season.

And he was won one year. And I interviewed him. And I talked about like, I don't think it's a stretch to say he has all-star potential in the NBA if he did a little bit more. And he just flatly in the way he flatly says like, yeah, I think so. I agree. So he envisioned that. kind of stuff for himself. And they've needed them in the series because

Deuce has disappeared. Landry's shooting has dried up up a little bit to the last couple of games. Katzman in foul trouble now, two games in a row. But I want to talk about like seven threes in this game. Just an astounding shooting performance. And I think the Knicks, as that game went on, kind of figured out what the spurs were trying to do

defensively with Wembe Namba. And they kind of rediscovered some of the stuff that worked in the first two games. And I just, I find it very interesting what, what the spurs are doing because they have, they can put them on cat. And when they do that, when he's guarding cat straight man to man, the Knicks go right into Brunson cat pick and roll, which is what they should do. Pop cat out for threes, make the defense start to rotate. They're cutting around that has been pristine.

They can put them on heart straight up, which they, I think it was a little bit exaggerated, the degree to which they did that in game in game three. And they did not do it much in game four. He just basically guarded an area. And he guarded like a corner slash baseline area. And in games three and four, you could see the Knicks sort of figuring out, okay, how do we want to attack that? And like, there are possessions where Hart would start in the corner.

That's the ideal scenario for San Antonio's semi-Wembe zone is Hart in the corner. And then Hart and Annanobie would switch places. Hart would go up to the wing and Annanobi would go to the corner. And that moment is such a delicious little basketball moment. Because in that moment, Wemby and the Spurs have a decision to make. Is he guarding Hart or is he guarding the baseline? Because if he guards Hart, he goes with Hart up out of the paint. And Hart's going to set a ball screen for Brunson.

And he's going to be in the action. Now, because it's Josh Hart, he can hang back, play drop defense. Say, go ahead, shoot pick and pop three, Josh Hart. But you are away from the paint. And the spurs have chosen over and over again in the last two games. He's just going to guard the area. And if there's a good shooter there, so be it. There's a good shooter there.

And what the Knicks have started to do is clear everyone else out of that side of the floor so that he has no choice when that corner guy comes up to set a screen for Brunson to follow him and be in the pick and roll. And like the Brunson three that got them to within one at the end of the game was that exact action. I think it would end up being Alvarado that he was on. They switched it and he hit a stepback three over Wenbanyama to pull him within one. And the Knicks just have kind of, and then there were like, there were some breakdowns, I thought, where the Knicks with their cutting and their movement kind of confused the spurs a little bit. And Nannobi got open for a couple of corner threes. I thought Harper misplayed a couple of rotations.

And these are hard rotations to make. Like this is a complex defense for young guys to make. And OG made them pay every single time. And I just, I said it after game. I'm surprised he's not just guarding heart straight up more. And I understand why he's not. But it does make the defense a little simpler for the spurs when he is. And that's why Katz foul trouble was such a big part of this game.

Because when Robinson is in or Huck 40's in, he can just play the defense becomes simpler. I'm just going to guard the rim running center. Everyone else play normal defense. That's why Katz shooting is such a huge variable because it takes the spurs out of their sort of comfort man-to-man defense. By the way, Kat, did you look at his plus-minus numbers? I didn't. But in the fourth quarter, he was tremendous.

What was this plus-minus? Well, I don't know yesterday. It was plus something a lot. For the series, he is plus-48, and the Knicks are minus-40 when he's on the bench. Oh, wow. And it's because of how he warps them into this strange defense that I think,

it's just my gut. I think they're being a little too cute with it and could put him on heart a little bit more. And there's a thin line between sewing confusion in the other team, which is what they're trying to do by being unpredictable and moving them around and confusing yourself a little bit.

And I thought the spurs sort of veered a little bit. Now, the reason they don't want him on heart is he gets up into open space. And there's, I don't know if you remember this. There's one play where he's on heart. And heart becomes Draymond green. Like they posted Kat. Wembe ignores heart to help on Katz post up.

And they go into a Golden State style split action where Brunson comes off a hard screen and walks into an open three and he misses it. That's what they're afraid of. But credit to Knicks. Like they're puzzle solving this just enough. Katz spacing and ability to offensive rebound against small guys is a huge part of it. But it doesn't matter about O'GN and Obie doesn't go absolutely bananas from three in this series. It's remarkable. Zach, I have another stat question for you.

Pardon my looking at my phone. I was actually trying to figure it out. You're allowed. His numbers, since your friends and neighbors aired with you and him, since it touched the screen, I mean, I think that's part of the rise here. You've got to give yourself some credit. Knicks have lost one game. Yeah, Dan Housen.

I'm talking to you, Dan Housen. You don't get all the credit, okay? The producers of your friends and neighbors get some of the credit, and so do I, because, you know, there's a lot of buzz about our acting. is that there's scripts are coming in. Is there like a twins remake that we can do? Who knows? I think part of it, he got, he grew confidence seeing himself on the screen with you.

And that's elevated his game. Did I am, did I am view him with that confidence? I don't know. That's for other people to say, Ian. We're not even talking about Jalen Brunson, who, you know, shooting percentage has been below the standard. he's set for himself, particularly the first three games. But last night, he was the engine, part of the engine that got the Knicks back to within striking distance.

And then, as he always does, he had a few big shots late that got them to within one or two points. And it gets overshadowed by Inanovi, and we understand why. But Brunson played a big role in getting them back to within striking distance and then back to where, in a position where they could win the game. And the shooting was much better in the second half. And the decision making, I thought, was very good in the second half. And they're obviously not there without them. Let's take a break and talk a little bit more about Jalen Brunson after this.

And that was today's finals MVP segment. It was presented by State Farm. State Farm is here to assist with agents and easy to use digital tools like the State Farm app to help set you up with personalized coverage that fits your life and budget like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. coverage options are selected by the customer in price and eligibility vary by state. Rhesas knows a thing or two about great combinations. Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously, but there's more than one way to Rises.

From indulgent Riesas Big Cups with caramel to crunchy Riesces pieces and Riesce's miniatures, there's a delicious Rises for every mood. It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Rises. Jalen Brunson, you're right. When I checked the box score last night after the game, I was like, 36 points. Okay, 12 of 25 from the floor, 9 of 11 from the line, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, a number of big shots late after a lot of scrutiny of his over-dribbling, I think,

in game three. What happened? What went right? Did he just make Jalen Brunson more, like, they're just Jalen Brunson's shots and they're hard shots and sometimes they go in and sometimes they don't? Was this just like they just went in more? I mean, I think from what I saw, he was getting to the spots that he has operated with success in, and whether it was the mid-range and rhythm, or, you know, he found seams, driving seams,

and he's able to finish whenever you give him an inch of daylight, and he had a few drives, multiple drives in that second half where he did finish tough, tough shots at the rim, but that's just where his talent takes him and takes the next. And so I don't know if it, if it was anything different from Brunson's perspective, from his approach. But I think in that fourth quarter, you know, we talked about Alvarado, allowing Brunson to be off the ball at times. And Alvarado kind of being that secondary ball handler as a pressure relief for Brunson and the Knicks. I think that's where you could point to something and say, hey, this was different. And maybe this is what got Brunson going or what helped him, helped keep him.

him going in that second half. I don't want to belabor the point, but just Mike Brown's thought process in bringing Alvarado in, a part of it was getting Brunson off the ball and not forcing him to, you know, have to fight the spurs tooth and nail for every inch when he's bringing the ball up or, you know, fighting off the ball. So I think that was part of it. If you want to point to something that was different. It's an interesting point that applies to the other end to because there was a play in game three where the spurs used Castle as an off ball cutter. He curled

really hard around a Fox pick in the corner. Similar to the corner stuff, they run for Wemby that they ran a lot more of last night. And he cut with such force. They kicked him the ball. He kicked it back to Fox for an open three that missed. But it just made me think like there's so much Castle on the ball in this series, less so last night because of the foul trouble.

And it makes sense because if you run Castle, Wemba, Yama, pick and rolls, And I thought the spurs were smart sort of mixing up the structure of their pick and rolls. More of them just with Wembe is the only screener last night and shooting around. And then you put your two worst three-point shooters in the pick and roll with all their best shooters around them. It makes sense. But then you have Dearen Fox who's a point guard and Dylan Harper, who just is like so ready for all of this. And you start to imagine a world in which like could they put Castle off the ball a little bit more?

And I think the Fox thing, look, man, he hasn't had a great playoffs. He's probably injured. Last night was a catastrophe that will be one of the defining moments of his career and of Spurs franchise history, period, if they lose this series. I was out to lunch with an agent two days ago who said, what do you think, when do you think they start talking about do we have to trade Fox to open up the offense for Harper? And all year I've said, I think this is a perfect situation for Fox, like be the veteran mentor, don't overtax any of these point guards. They're in the finals. Obviously, it's worked.

But I did, my answer, and this is two days ago to this guy, was looking at his contract, which is four years, $55 million a pop and doesn't even start until next season. I think Harper in particular has reached the point of like, if some team actually called me with a palatable offer, for Fox. I'd have to at least start thinking about it now to get ahead of it. I don't think they're going to do that. I don't think that call is coming, really. And ironically, one of the teams that's desperate for a point guard is the Kings who are that don't think that's happening. By the way, how about Mike Brown having to watch Deerrin Fox blow the game last night? That's an interesting King's little emotionally fraught. And the Kings are obviously picking it up in a point of the draft.

There's a lot of point cards. But I do think you'd have to listen to a power. offer and get ahead of it a little bit because you could frame it in two ways. Number one, it's obviously worked with the three point cards. There are three wins away from the NBA title. Number two, have you already kind of gotten out of Fox, what you hoped to get out of him, which is veteran mentor for young guys first test of the playoffs, like we're in the finals? I think you'd have to think about it. And then we went back and forth on like, who's the team that would trade for him?

and I don't know who the team is, but the one thing I did say was if Janus gets traded, and I think Janice is getting traded, I think the tooth base is all the way out of the tube. And he gets traded to a team like Miami. Or just say like Brooklyn made a crazy play for Janus. I don't think that's going to happen,

but let's say they did. Basically a team trades for him, and they don't have quite enough still on their team to be like, we're a tier one contender. we just traded all these. That's what you want. We trade all our picks and young guys for Rihanna. You want to be a contender.

But we're not. Is Fox a guy that could be the next guy in the door for that kind of team? Like get him on the cheap. He's still a really good player. He made the All-Star team this year. We're a little bit desperate because we just are pot committed to Yonis. I don't think that's going to happen. I think the Spurs, if they lose this series, are just going to let this rest.

But I do think, like, Harper has been so good. and is such like a central casting lead guard in the NBA. They have to figure out how he and Castle fit together. I don't worry about that at all. I love Steph Castle. I'd love to have him on my team. But I don't know, man. Like it's going to be interesting because this has been a not great playoffs for him.

And last night was like catastrophically bad. I mean, a couple of things, Zach, come to mind. Is it overly simplistic just to say, flip the rolls? Fox comes off the bench, Fewer minutes. No, but then you're paying a bench guy $55 million a year for the next four years. Right. But if you're going to trade him and not get the value that you would deem as, you know,

equitable or palatable, maybe that's something to try. But the other thing that you bring up is fascinating because, you know, there are teams that are right there that will need point guards. I mean, Minnesota is the obvious one. Houston has Van Fleet coming back, but I wonder if they explore the point card market. there. And so even without that Janus trade, there's true contenders who are going to be looking for a point guard now. Kyrie Irving, I think will be, you know, among the point guards that these teams call about.

John Morant, I don't, I think more of a reclamation project. I don't think a team that's ready to win what take him on. I mean, I've heard that the market is, it was, has been tepid for Morant. And, you know, people look at Sacramento, but I think Sacramento is confident that They could get a really good guard in this draft. And so the Moran thing is different. But yeah, I just wonder those kinds of teams that you mentioned without even the honest trade. If you miss out on one of the guys that you like,

do you pivot to Fox? But, you know, I don't know. I don't have my finger on the pulse of San Antonio, but I just wonder if it would be too early for them. They think it would it be too early to make a drastic move like that? I'm saying right now, if I'm Brian Wright, and you bring me a decent offer,

like we got to at least have a meeting about it because the contract is not going to age well. I don't think, you know, I'm a bit disappointed in his play in the playoffs, but again, he's playing with some kind of high ankle spring or whatever. It's a good point about Morant is another one of like, by low,

we can add him to our team, whether it's Janus, not Janus is like, because I think he's going to get traded too. But the Yonest thing, I think it's happening. Like the teams are operating as if it's happening. agents are operating as if it's happening.

Like they're looking at Milwaukee as a rebuilding team. They're looking at Milwaukee as a team that might have another first round pick in the lottery and like scheduling their draft workouts around it. Like everyone is just operating and getting the vibe of like this is going to happen. Or like teams that other agents have told me like teams that are in the honest derby like we're acting as if they might not have their first round pick in the draft because they're going to trade it. Anyway, I don't want to talk too much about that. Brunson.

And yeah, man, he sticks with it. I mean, that's the defining feature of the Knicks. They're just a professional basketball team. They stick with it. They play their game. They haven't played like a bad game in quite a long time. And boy, oh boy, did they stick with it last night? What did we miss from last night?

And going into a game, whatever, five. I mean, we hit Cass. We hit Jose. I mean, we, should we hit the fouls more? Did they talk about the fouls in the post game? the cat fouls because that I mean that look you can sit here and say like I think the the nicks end up shooting where free throws the fouls or even whatever those cat is so definitional to how they play in the structure of how they play against one benyama those three fouls and it's the one where he kind of there's some contact with fox on a drive on the first play of the game where he juts out his stomach a little bit but fox juts into him hands up that's a foul there's the proximate foul where he um gets called for hooking uh wemby after Wemby was initially called for a foul. I didn't love that only because

the reason he hooks Wembe is because Wembe is hugging him. Like Wembe initiates the arm under arm structure. Yeah. And then there's the push off on Cornette for a rebound, which is probably a foul, but on the other hand, like, it wasn't a gratuitous, like,

arms extended push off. Like that, that is a, I think like, that should net out at one and a half fouls. But did they talk about it all? Were they just like, forget it we won the game? Yeah, it was more so the latter. It really, it didn't come up. And obviously, Knicks lose that. If the Knicks had lost that game, the narrative in New York would be about the officials and the conspiracy theories. And yeah, that that's where the attention would be because of those town's fouls early on.

I mean, I took a walk to meet a friend at halftime in the concourse after checking in on the Wutang halftime performance, which we didn't hit on that there. Nicks, I think, are plus 30 since Wutang has been on the court performing a halftime. But anyway, yeah, like a couple, few people stop me and they're like, they're down 27, and it's not all the refs fault, but those those catfowls stuck out to everybody who was watching the game. So that would have been the narrative here locally had they lost the game. I thought the refs, I was joking like, I think they're going to need to get Trump's

motorcade back here to get these refs out of the arena because this is going to be ugly. Look, is Tony Brothers, if he's. wraps a game in New York. I do in a half serious way worry about that because, you know, everybody was screaming about him in game two. And the officiating has been a storyline here. And I think that, you know, I'm the last one to look at officiating. I think it's something that, you know, if you're emotionally looking at a game, it's something that you're going to get drawn to. But I think even myself, people are talking about it just seems like the calls have been more, much more the spurs benefit, Ben the Knicks, and I don't know, what are your thoughts generally on the

officiating in the series? I think it's been a little bit overblown, but probably like 55, 45, 45, you know, spurs have gotten a little bit. And the catfowls, like, we've seen cat get in foul trouble a lot. Sure. Normally, they're just bad fouls, like obvious fouls. These are not those. And I didn't love any of the three calls, to be honest.

Okay. I've been waiting to do this. when they won game two, I did my post game pot and I said that what they I think it was their 13th consecutive win and I said

this is one of the most magical things in the history of sports that I've ever seen any sport not just basketball. Most people agreed some people said I was being hyperbolic I don't think it's hyperbolic and I tried to find out like

I mean 13 games in a row with a net rating of like 20 in those games is just crazy and magical. And it got me thinking, like, is there even a comp for this team? And we're now three games, three wins into the finals. It's time to at least, like, we can at least talk about it. And by comp, I mean, the Knicks were a third seed, 53 win team, like, good team, not great. Like, what, probably great-ish, but like, you know, run of the mill 53 win team.

Right. are now 15 and 3 in the playoffs with a net rating of plus 16 and an average margin of victory of plus 15 and a half. So they went from run of the mill good to just this is a Jordan Bulls Durant Curry Warriors level Blitzkrieg through the playoffs. I think that's basically completely anomalous in the history of the NBA. So here I did some deep dives. Are you ready? This is simple basketball reference stuff. I'll go back and do it better later. but this is what I have for now. I searched for every team who won the title,

had four or fewer losses on their way to the title, and a margin of victory of 10 or more per game. Okay, so like dominant playoff runs, there's probably teams that had five, six losses that could fit. But that's my criteria. I just thought to be fun. Here are the teams. The 2017 Warriors,

they went 16 to 1 in the playoffs, 67 and 15 in the regular season. the 2001 Lakers, that would be the comp, 15 and 1 in the playoffs, 56 wins in the regular season with actually a worst regular season point differential than the Knicks. The difference is they had won the championship the previous year and had Kobe and Shaq and everybody knew what they were. The 1996 Bulls, 72 and 10 in the regular season. You may remember that team, 15 and 3 in the playoffs.

The 1991 Bulls, 61 and 21 in the playoffs. regular season, 15 and 2 in the playoffs. The 1987 Los Angeles Lakers, 65 and 17 in the regular season, 15 and 3 in the playoffs. The 1986, Boston Celtics, 67 and 15 in the regular season, 15 and 3 in the playoffs. The 1985 Los Angeles Lakers, 62 and 20, 15 and 4 in the playoffs. That's the whole list. That's the list that Nix are on right now in terms of playoff dominance. It's the greatest teams in the history of the sport, teams that won 60, 65, 70 regular season games.

The Knicks 153. This makes absolutely no sense. Then I did another search. Are you ready, Mr. Begley? Please keep it coming. I did a search for, let's see, this is regular season winning percentage less than two-thirds because you have to account for lockout. So, like, that's about where the Knicks were winning percentage-wise. So I'm searching for pretty good teams.

won the finals and had a margin of victory of in the regular season seven or less because that's about where the Knicks were. So won the finals run-of-the-mill regular season team. Here are the teams. 2004 Pistons,

54 wins, 16 and 7 in the playoffs. The dominant playoff run is not quite there. Interesting comp for a number of reasons. This may be the best comp of all. The 2023 Nuggets, 53 and 29 in the regular season, 16 and 4 in the playoffs with a plus 8 point differential. Again, the Knicks are plus 16. Like, it's double that. 22 Warriors, 53 and 29 in the regular season, 16 and 6 in the playoffs plus 5.

Like, not close to what the Knicks are doing in the playoffs. 2006 Heat, 52 and 30 in the regular season, 16 and 7 in the playoffs plus 4. Not close to what the Knicks are doing in the playoffs. I promise I'm done already. Now we're getting into what I call the Simmons zone. 1979 Sonics, 52 and 30, 12 and 5 in the playoffs plus 2 and a half, not close to what the Knicks are doing. 1977 Blazers, 49 and 33 in the regular season, 14 and 5 in the playoffs, pretty dominant, plus

4.7, not close to what the Knicks are doing. Obviously, the three and all that margins can be bigger now. Right. 1995 Rockets, the repeat team, 47 and 35 in the regular season. They trade for Drexler halfway through. 15 and 7 in the playoffs plus three. Not close to what the Knicks are doing.

Two more. 2021 bucks, 42 and 26 in a 72 game season. 16 and 7 in the playoffs plus five. Not a super dominant playoff run, but interesting comp. 1978 bullets, 44 and 38,

the worst record I think to ever win the title. 14 and 7 in the playoffs plus four. Like none of these, so these are like the pretty, the good to great regular season teams who end up winning the title. None of them, the nuggets are the closest one with a 16 and 4 plus 8. I just think this is cool. Like, I've never seen anything like this. There's no matchup really between what, it's just unbelievable what's happened. Like they went from 53 and 29 to 15 and 3 plus 15 and a half.

And like, yeah, sure, the 59 point winner or whatever against the Hawks is they blew the shit out of very, not in the finals, but that's, I think it's totally anomalous. It's crazy. And it also happens after they got down to one to Atlanta. Both losses, by the way, coming by one point. So close games. And then they make the shifts to towns as the hub. And that's not the only thing, the only reason things changed in a drastic way. It's part of it. But yeah, the gulf between the regular season performance and the postseason performance, I don't think there's a comp for that, Zach. I really don't.

And you could look at it also like two ways with the East. You could say, well, the East was so bad. Maybe in a normal year, the Knicks regular season isn't a 53 win season. Maybe it's even like a 49, 48, 47 win season. Taking taking plus injuries to key players, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Or you could say like the playoff numbers are a product partially of a week east. I can see that either way.

but, you know, the bottom line is it's happening and it happened to me. Once I saw James Dolan and Stefan Marbury sitting next to each other, I believe it was the game six in Atlanta when the Knicks went absolutely crazy. Once I saw those two sitting next to each other celebrating Nick dominance, I just thought anything is on the table because it ended so ugly with Marbury in New York, with Dolan in the middle of it, you know, those two together, it just told me, anything is possible here with this Nick team if those two can unite over this group.

Look, when I picked Knicks in seven, I just, it was corny. I said, I think something magical has happened to the Knicks. I still think that. That said, it's plus eight after four games. I expect the Spurs to regroup and make the Knicks earn this. And if the Spurs win game five, game six is going to be pressure packed

at MSG like nothing that's come yet. So TBD on that. Just a couple other final notes. I thought the Knicks were really a forceful in game four of pushing the pace, which I think is important for them because it gets them into the blender and just sort of organically gets the ball moving. And I like when Towns attacks smaller guys from the elbow when Wembe is playing that zone.

And the one possession that I saw it was Carter Bryant was on him. And he drove. And yeah, Wemby came over to help and Kat had to kick out at the rim. But it got the blender going and OGN and Obie hit a corner three out of it. Those are two of the things I would look for in game five. But one went away, man. One went away from history. One went away from a party like no other in New York City,

whether there are press releases about where the party can be or not, TBD. But I expect to spurs to come out and make them earn it and make it tough. But I do expect the Knicks to close it out. out one way or another. But boy, if they get it to six, that atmosphere is going to be pretty both celebratory and tense at the same time, don't you think? Super, super tense. And, you know, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer today.

But just because it was a Mets reference, I found it interesting. There was a media member. We were talking about the OG moment and kind of how where it ranked and how iconic it was in New York sports moments. You had the David Tyree catch. You had Bill Buckner. and it would be right up there. But the Knicks have to win for it to be right up there.

And in the chance that they do lose, the media member said, hey, it's like the Ndi Chavez catch for the Mets in that CS, where he makes an unbelievable catch, but they still lose that game to the Cardinals. And you don't really remember it the same way. So OG, that moment maybe would get that treatment if the Knicks fall party, but I don't think they will. I think there's too much going on their side to

close this thing out. I'm with you. I think somehow, some way, uh, they figure out how to get that final win and then it's going to be bedlam in New York. Well, thanks for ending the podcast by bringing up Mets pain. Ian, that's really nice of you coming off two straight horrible losses to the St. Louis Cardinals. We'll do a Mets corner once the finals is over. Um, Ian Bego, you're going to San Antonio, correct? Yes. Enjoy. I am staying home because I am Bill's post game, uh, Saturday live Netflix podcast, uh, guests. So I will miss that game. I'll be. a game six if there is a game six. Ian, thank you. You're the best.

Thank you to Billy, Jonathan, and Mike on production. Again, I'll be with Bill on Saturday and then we'll sort of TBD it after that, depending on the results of the game. And thanks to you all, of course, for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe show. We'll see you next time. 21 or over and President Select States

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