The Zach Lowe Show - The New-Look Timberwolves With Jon Krawczynski and Five Big Questions!

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Zach is joined by Jon Krawczynski to break down what the next season will hold for the Minnesota Timberwolves with LaMelo Ball and Jonathan Kuminga. Then, Mo Dakhil comes on to answer five big questions about the upcoming NBA season. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (1:17) Jon Krawczynski joins the show! (7:57) What is the Timberwolves’ ceiling? (17:46) Can this team compete with the Thunder or Spurs? (26:38) Will Kuminga be useful in the half-court offense? (33:07) Entertaining kids on vacation (37:57) Mo Dakhil joins the show! (40:50) Unwritten rules in baseball are stupid (43:20) Big questions for next season! (44:04) What Western Conference team can insert itself into the top six? (1:03:47) Most exciting potential playoff race (1:15:01) Who could win Most Improved Player? Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Jon Krawczynski and Mo Dakhil Producers: Jonathan Frias, Billy Gil, and Mike Wargon Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the Zach Lowe show, start off your week with some NBA talk. We've got John Krasinski, the great John Krasinski from the athletic, not from the office, to talk Minnesota Timberwolves. Jonathan Kaminga was the big news at the end of last week. We get into his fit and just, wow, they really have reinvented this team that made two straight conference finals. Obviously fell short of that last season. Lamello Ball, Jonathan Kaminga. Cody Williams, kind of a sneaky little flyer they're taking on him in what was otherwise a salary. dump. What are the Timberwolves? Where do they stack up in the Western Conference going into the season?

And then Mo is here to zoom out a little bit. Some big questions with Mo, our most exciting playoff races. Who has the best chance at cracking the top six in the West and sending one of the chalk teams down into the play-in? And we start our awards preview rollout with most improved player. We make a bunch of different picks for who could potentially win that. And we talk about some card game, some vacation stuff. That's all coming up on the Zach Lowe show with John Krasinski and Mojikil. Hope you guys enjoy it.

Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. It's the last day of August training camp is around the corner. John Krasinski from the Athletic is here to talk to us about the big move that happened at the end of last week. Jonathan Kaminga seldom has so much ink been

spilled over someone who has accomplished so relatively little in the NBA has signed with the Minnesota Timberwell Two years, $12.4 million. That didn't go great for Jonathan Kamenga. Player option in year two. This may be yet another pit stop. Penciled in as the starting power forward for the wolves who traded both of their power forwards,

Julius Randall in a salary dump and Nas Reid in the lamella ball trade. I think that actually got all roped into one trade. So technically it's just they both got traded in that trade. Interesting fit, interesting series of events, interesting career trajectory. total no harm, no foul bet for the wolves at this price point. But this has been a wild summer of turnover and identity change for the wolves. They still have the Edwards, Gobert, tent pole, ball handler, superstar guard, defensive anchor. And Jaden McDaniels, you know, sort of rounding out the starting five doing everything he does so well.

But they have changed a lot about their team. It's exciting. I'm not sure what it amounts to in terms of actually challenging the best teams in the West. And I do wonder, and we can start here, like, there's a line. There's like a balance between sometimes you do have to change even when things are working well because things grow stale or the league has kind of figured you out or you've clearly hit a ceiling. And sometimes there's too much change, too fast, when your identity kind of gets flipped on its head a little bit and you take some time to figure it out.

Where have the wolves landed? Yeah, I think that what they have done is they clearly made a determination after losing to San Antonio in the second round, Zach, that they had taken that style of play to its logical conclusion. They were one of the first ones really kind of on board with the bully ball or big man ball when they went Cat and Gobert in the front court. then the league kind of started to evolve with them in that respect. And then last year with Gobert and Randall, they took a step back from the year before, from two straight Western Conference Finals runs. And there are some injuries that were involved with that as well. But I think that when you look at the moves that they did make, it's clear that their messaging

is we've got to change and adapt again. And so now they've gone from a team with an oversized. front court with big guys everywhere to a sleeker, more explosive dynamic type of an approach. And they believe that their avenue for zagging against San Antonio and Oklahoma City is, hey, let's get a little faster, let's shoot a little bit more, let's run in transition. And maybe that will help neutralize some of the advantages that the spurs and thunder have against them. we'll see but one thing that is for sure is that this is going to be an entirely different

identity going into next season and we'll see how long it takes for everyone to get on on board with that but these are this is a different looking timber wolves team from what we have seen over the last three or four years without question well moving on from randville is fine i mean his career playoff numbers and it's up to 42 playoff games now for him 18 points, 7 and a half rebounds, 4 assists, 41% shooting, 31% on threes, 46.5% on twos. He's, I think, had five playoff runs, and one of them has been good, and four of them have been awful. Maybe it's four, and it's three versus one, but whatever it is.

And last year was maybe the second awfulest of his career. He had the one Nick's Hawk series, which was a disaster. But 16, 7 and a half, 39% shooting, 24% on threes, 43.5 on twos, that's six. 16.7.5 rebounds. Equal amount of assists and turnover. It's just a disastrous playoff run for him last year. And like you said, the bulldozer had plowed, had bulldozed as much territory as they could.

And it was time for a change. And the big change was Lamello Ball. And now it's Cominga theoretically sliding into the starting five, some changes to their depth. This also involved the Josh Green flip for now Cody Williams. They waived John Conchard. We'll talk about Cody Williams later. I think that's an interesting little flyer that they took.

It's going to be a very good team. I think I've already talked about Lamello with you. I think the Lamello Ant thing is going to work fine. I think this is exactly the kind of player Ant needs. I think a change of scenery was needed for Lamello. And this is like a more, not that Charlotte wasn't serious, but this is a team that's done serious stuff. And the expectations for it are serious.

there's a there's some interesting defensive potential with this commingo lineup um it's huge it's a lot of protection for lamello ball um and i think they're going to try to make their bones like defense transition rebounding play super fast uh i just i the two things that are sticking out to me is i kind of look at the team uh i don't i don't know if the caminga gober thing is going to work offensively. I think that's going to be really interesting. I mean, it'll work to some degree, right? But Kaminga, comminga is like, like we're going to, I'm going to talk about Shaden Sharp a little bit later. They're very, they're very dissimilar players, but they're similar in the sense that their second, third, fourth options who didn't play like that when they got into the NBA, but

that's where they are in the NBA hierarchy on a good team. And they haven't, you know, four or five years into their career really developed the skills that that role really requires, like outside shooting, playmaking, defense, and shooting in particular, I think will be a challenge. And you look at the depth, like with Devenzo out for, I don't know, probably the whole season, I don't know, you're coming off the bench with Bones's back. I.O. is a killer off the bench. That's great. I do wonder how he feels about now being not a starter again. And then after that, it's kind of a lot of question marks. Terrence Shannon Jr. should be involved.

They love Barron J. It's a big step up and pressure for Barron J. Cody Williams might get a shot. Trey Liles is here. It's going to be interesting. I don't quite know what to make of the team in terms of what its ceiling is. Yeah, I would say that if we want to,

let's go way back in Timberwolves lore right now. No pun intended with war. No pun intended. Right, exactly. But when I think it all goes to, all of this boils down to the Lamello acquisition and what that becomes. And if he is the playmaker extraordinaire, the point guard, the scoring point guard that they believe he can be that he was for a lot for Charlotte last year, I think everything just falls into place and they're really, really interesting and competitive. And I'll tell you that in, in. this organization's history, this feels a little bit like when the wolves traded on draft night,

Ray Allen for Stefan Marbury, and to pair with Kevin Garnett. In terms of they thought at that moment, we need dynamic point guard play to supplement our incredible two-way force, you know, kind of power forward, small 40s playing everywhere if Kevin Garnett was. And from that point on to this, that one didn't work out. But from that point on to this, they have never had a point guard like this, that plays this way, that can connect people together while also getting his own shots. And so if they get premium optimized lamello ball, then I think that this is a team that can

win a lot of games. I like their depth, Zach, because I think. that sneakily, you know, you add comminga to the starting lineup. Now you don't have to really mess with Terrence Shannon Jr. at that four spot in the starting lineup. He can be in the second unit and have the ball in his hands a lot more. I think that fits him. And by the way, you know this because we've talked about it. I've always been a believer in him. Every time he plays, good things happen. I know the coaches always nitpicked the missed rotations, the whatever on defense. But like, there's very clearly

been something there with him. And when they finally unleashed him a little bit in the playoffs last year. It was like, oh my God. Like, this guy is just creating stuff out of nothing constantly. So I, I think he's ready to play like 20 minutes a game in the regular season. I agree. Yep. And I think that this role for him will fit it because now he can have the ball in his hands a little more. He's not just standing in the corner waiting for things to happen with that starting unit. I think Dante DiVincenzo is going to be back at some point this year. We'll see what he is. Okay. Good. Yeah, we'll see what he is when he gets back. But early returns are that he's making good progress and and and and you on baron jay is another key like he he didn't play at all last year barely

now he is the backup five he's going to play 18 minutes a night um 15 to 18 minutes probably sometimes 20 and if they can get rebounding and shot blocking from him uh i do think it's a dynamic group that can match up athletically with anyone that they face now how they how all the pieces fit together is going to be the question. Does Jonathan Camingo come in with the right mindset playing a role rather than looking to get his stats and and be, you know, and increase his value on the free agent market? He's saying the right things right now. And so if he, if he approaches that way, I like this group. I think they can be right in the mix for a home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs. No, there's no question about that. Like,

that's the team they've been more or less. They're seating has oscillated up and down because the West is so volatile and so competitive. But they're going to be really good. I've always liked Cominga. I've always been more bullish than consensus on, or then at least the Warriors coaching staff was on Kaminga. I think everyone involved from his agent to the Warriors to Kamanga himself, like he handled that situation very poorly. But, you know, the bottom line is like for all the experience, potential that is there.

It's now been in Golden State in Atlanta that the results have been kind of like, eh, like sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. They have the scoring outbursts, including I do worry a little bit, and I don't think Tim Connolly would do this, but I do worry if the wolves are like over indexing a little bit on the one playoff series that Comingo played against the Timberwolves when Steph Curry was hurt and you average like 20 something in game because they keep talking about that. Like, yeah, we saw it firsthand.

as a comminga booster, I should have been like crowing about that series. And I actually just felt like he just kind of made a lot of really difficult jump shots. Volume. Yeah.

And it was efficient. Like he just made a lot of shots and he's just not going to make that much. He gets to the line all the time, which is a good skill. But for this to work, some other part of his game is going to have to really,

really blossom other than just I can put my head down and score. The one thing I'll give him credit for is like, there was all this noise all the time about how he doesn't play the way Steve Kerr's teams play. He doesn't mesh. He doesn't move the ball as intuitively. And like no one moves the ball as intuitively as Draymond Green.

No one moves off the ball as intuitively as Steph Curry. Like to judge any player based. Like it's like Kelly Ubrey went in there and failed completely because he couldn't play that. It's like you're you're asking regular pro basketball players to play with like Mozart basically. And comming a like his average. three and a half assists per 36 minutes. Like that's not nothing. I actually think he can move the ball a little bit and be a handoff guy.

And I thought he actually tried to do that a little bit in Golden State. I just, I do wonder how this starting five is going to work. And if there's a world in which it doesn't work and they have to change it up midway through the season and what that will do to their chemistry. But it's, it's definitely worth a bet at this price point. Like I think I just here, here's what I come down to. Since the Gobert trade, which I guess we can just keep litigating whether it worked or not because it worked.

I mean, it worked. Is it possible that it worked and I'm like they still just gave up too much for Rudy Gobert? I don't know. I think that's the right answer. Yes. And he's eligible for an extension right now, by the way. Is there anything going on with that? I haven't heard anything yet on that front.

I know he wants to be here long term. The wolves will love to keep him around. The question will be what that price point is as he gets a little bit old. older with Yon Barangay coming up the ranks. And so I think that is something to explore. But they want to keep that relationship going. He has been, when you look at just the output on the court, if you take away what they gave up for him, it's been an unmitigated success, defensive player of the year to Western

Conference finals, second round. Like, this is like a plateau that this organization has never reached. For a punchline franchise, more or less. Yeah. Now, did they give up to maybe one too many first round picks and one too many swaps? Yeah, I think so. And they would probably tell you that. Like, they did overpay for him, but at least they have gotten a return on his investment. And the hope is, Zach, that bringing lamello ball in will actually extend Rudy's effectiveness offensively because they have not had a guy who can throw a lob pass to him for four years.

You know who you're talking to. Lamello Ball Apologist, number one. Like, I've been telling people for years that, yeah, this guy does some goofy shit during games. And, like, there's going to be the one-legged threes that you're going to hate. And there have been several late-game decision-making errors that are just ghastly. He's a really, really good offensive player. He's a great offensive player. And I think in this system, having seen a team that drafted.

him that he made popular with their local fan base, say and had the most exciting 55 game stretch, maybe in the entire history of the new Charlotte Hornets, say to him, hey, cool, we're sending you off for Nas Reid and a first round pick and some pick swaps because more or less, when we get into real games, and we're going to get into real games at some point

with Concanipal and Brandon Miller, or like second round playoff games and stuff like that. We just don't think you play tough and serious enough basketball. I hope he heard that because he's tall enough, physical enough, and if he stays healthy, which is obviously a big if, good enough to play serious basketball on both ends of the floor. And I just think the offense, it's mostly going to work. He's going to be fine.

He and Aunt will mesh well. He aunt and Gobert will mesh well. The Kaminga piece is interesting. But this is why I brought up Rudy. I do think there's been an element of the wolves kind of chasing their tails since that trade. So they gave up a ton for Gobert. They knew, we knew immediately when it happened. You're now in cap jail with this roster.

And the only way out of it is going to be trading cat. And they inevitably did end up trading cat for Julius Randall. Then they have to dump Julius Randall to get lamella ball. Similarly, like the trade for Dillingham, not working out, which was like a worthy swing. They have to dump him. and then they get I.O. to kind of replace him. It just feels like they're chasing their tails, but they have maintained a level of like elite borderline elite success while doing it.

And it kind of feels like spinning plates to me, to use another metaphor. And I just wonder like how long they can keep spinning the plates. And if they can ever actually get up to the level of the two juggernauts in the West, or if they're just now kind of trapped with a team that is, really, really good, but not good enough. It has no path to cap flexibility for like four years at this point. Yeah, I think, like, you're speaking of the Tim Connell ethos since he came to Minnesota, has basically been like, I'm going to keep making moves.

And if this one doesn't work, we'll find another one around the corner. And we'll keep going and we'll keep going until we needed to click into place. Because you're right, like, they don't have a lot of, they have no assets, really, to trade draft pick wise going forward. If this iteration doesn't work now, you could say, well, maybe then you look at trading Jaden McDaniels and you get some draft picks for him or something like that. It's more chasing your tails when you got, it is more. It's the cat thing again.

Like when your only way out is to trade an awesome player that is imperfect but awesome, like it's it's kind of painful. But what they'll tell you is yes, there is that element, but also Anthony Edwards is 25, Lamella Ball is 25. Jade McDaniels will turn 26 earlier this month. I'd assume it was 26. Yoham Barron Jays 20. Kaminga's 23.

Like they have a very young core that if it does click into place can be here together for a very, very long time. And so with they feel like with Anton Lamello and Jaden in particular, that three headed young core, like they feel like that's going to be the thing that they can just keep building around. and every team kind of has to shuffle their decks around their main guys. And so they really feel confident about it. The most interesting part about it, Zach, is like all of these bets that they have taken

have been on very polarizing dudes. It's like Rudy Gobert is really polarizing. Lamello Ball is polarizing. Kaminga is polarizing. They've got a lot of these guys that the rest of the league looks at and is like, I don't know. And the world is like, yeah, bring them in. Let's go. let's put all these misfit toys together.

We think it's going to work out. So there is some gamble to it. There is some risk. Absolutely. But they also have a lot of talent on this roster. And they're going to be nights where they match up. And when things are going well, you're thinking, holy cow, like what's going to happen?

The question is going to be, can they sustain it over a year, two years, three years as the aunt enters his prime? Look, as someone who has been higher, much higher than consensus on Lamello, the health is the one thing that worries me. If you can get 65 games out of him again, I have no question that that part of this is all going to work. I guess I just have to applaud them for like, okay, so Oklahoma City's awesome and super young.

San Antonio's awesome and super young and has the guy who's about to be the best player in the world if he's not already the best player in the world and figures to hold that spot for quite a long time. Like, well, what am I supposed to do as a team in the Western Conference? Well, A, try to move east. How's that going, by the way? I saw some, didn't I see some report last week that they are now the favorites to move east if they get to Western Conference teams?

Yes, I would say internally, they feel confident or optimistic that they're going to be the team to move east with, you know, then you pair them with Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Detroit, however you work. But you can cluster them with a central division that really makes a lot more sense geographically. And so, yeah, I think that they would welcome it. and they've been trying to do it for 15 years. And now it looks like they're on the doorstep of that. So they feel good about that. Nothing's been told to them or communicated to them. But I think there's a really good chance that they'll be in the East before too long.

It's just dawning on me that like expansion, you know, there's like, you know, you talk to different ownership groups. There's like pros and cons. Like economically, does it make sense? Do we want to do this? Do we want to dilute the TV revenue? It's just daunting on me that maybe Minnesota's ownership group, which just changed. And we'll talk about that is like expansion, no-brainer. We're definitely pro expansion here in Minnesota.

Who cares about the money stuff? So either it's move east or like, what else you're supposed to do? Yeah, exactly. Like, will you least try? Yes, let's make a go of it. And the Lamello thing is a bet on it. I'm a big believer in this. You're not going to beat those teams by playing like them or playing like a kind of

typical team. You've got to have something atypical about you. And the wolves now have something atypical about them. I just, it's just going to be a tough road to home. And that's fine. maybe it takes someone on the thunder getting injured in the in the playoffs or whatever. That happens all the time. And it could well happen, the right time for them.

But I want to do, I do want to zero in on comminga. Like, yeah, he's the headliner. He's the new acquisition. What have I not brought up or what have we not talked about in terms of his fit on this team? By the way, yes, he theoretically turned down more money from the Lakers. That would have had to have been a sign and trade. That was never like complete, according to people I've talked to around that transaction. and the hawks are hard-capped at the first apron,

they would be the sign and trade partner having to take salary back. I think the Bulls and the Blazers got in and at the end. Look, there's no question, Jonathan Cominga, his strategy and his agent strategy has cost him a lot of money in the last few years. But at this price, he's a bargain. But let's talk more about the basketball. Yeah, the basketball of it, and we talk about a little bit, but I think it really bears kind of drilling in on is the defensive element of it

can be really special in terms. of, you know, he, I reported it last week, but Anthony Edwards was very vocal in his recruiting of Jonathan Cominga. And the thing that they talked about all the time was how special they can be defensively. And comminga is coming in here expecting to essentially tag team with Jade McDaniels on guarding the best player on the opponent's team. And I can tell you that when the wolves looked at bringing Camig in, obviously you say, yeah, we'll take a player who probably is in that $15, $18 million worth range, at least right now, and for $6 million, of course, that's a no-brainer.

But one of the big things that they like about the calculus of it, they didn't have a power forward before this. Like, they did not have that real option. And so to be able to slide Kaminga in there, it just like settles the rest of their group. And so they look at it as now they have some option for when they do get into a series against San Antonio or against Oklahoma City that wants to play bigger, that wants to beat you up in the mid-range a little bit, Kaminga can stand up to that a little bit more. And so they feel like they have a better match-up answer for both of those teams. Now, the shooting will be a question

mark and kind of a little bit of the playmaking as well, I think, but they're looking at returning a little bit more to their defensive roots and saying, we're going to, going to have a big, strong starting five where everyone is six, seven or taller, except for aunt, who's like six, five. And we can really make life miserable for opponents and then get out and run and convert in transition with Lamello Ball throwing half court lobs to people. And that will be really exciting and a fun way for these guys to play. I think Anthony Edwards plays his best when he's having fun. And he really wanted both Lamello Ball and Jonathan Cominga and was very active in recruiting them.

And so they just really think highly of what Kaminga represents as a physical presence for them to be able to just overpower people athletically. I'm glad you brought up that part of it because I was talking about this with someone from the Wolves last week. And we were also talking about Peyton Watson is like, I just think you need a requisite amount of just power. I say oomph, like power, athleticism, speed. to compete against those teams at the top of the conference.

They're so young, they're so athletic. They play so feisty in your Jersey physical basketball. That's the question about lamello ball. It's not a question about Cominga. And it's why I think the Peyton Watson departure is a bigger loss for Denver than it would look on paper, even when you throw in the salary, the pick they got all that. I just don't think Denver has enough oomph anymore. And Cominga definitely has that.

I can't wait to watch this team play. Like, I'm going to do my league pass rankings next month. going to be very high. When you said the phrase lamella ball throwing half court lobs, literally the first thing that popped into my brain was, I hope Chris Finch is extending his vacation wherever he is and really getting like a nice break from this. Because this is going to be a big challenge for him.

And there are going to be a lot of games where he's going to be on the sideline. Like, what the fuck just happened? Like what did we just do? Like what's happening? But on Kaminga, I just wonder what is he going to do to be useful in the half court when Gobert is on the floor and is the main screen setter or vice versa. Because they ran into this problem in Atlanta where the Cominga Jalen Johnson combo seemed so enticing at the three and the four, whatever it was. And it ended up mostly being, like not mostly, but a lot being comminga kind of standing in the corner because Jalen Johnson was on the ball or setting screens on the ball or Anya Akangu was on the ball or setting screens on.

the ball or jock landale or whatever and you know it just is going to require him to buy into like second side handoffs like aunt go bear pick and roll turns into swing it to comming guy handoff to lamello ball cutting um moving without the ball transition and like i just that's going to be the test of like literally where is he standing what is he doing when the game slows down i totally agree with that because i do think that one of the things that the wolves sort of had to wrestle with in the Julius Randall era was, okay, you have Ant and Julius who are both ISO heavy players. And that would really bog down their half court offense when both of those guys were kind of in, I got to get mine mode. And comminga is another guy who has shown a tendency

to be an ISO kind of a player. And so what they cannot have happen is it turn into a plotting offense. It's got to be, you've got to be able to harness that athleticism and that electricity in the right way. And one of the reasons that Jonathan Cominga chose to take the less money to come to Minnesota is that he believes that he's coming to a team that does believe in him. And so I think at least at the outset, they're all saying the right things in terms of let's just make the right play. Let's just find the right guy. And then if we have a mismatch, exploit, whatever that is, if it's Kaminga, if it's aunt, if it's Jade McDaniels, whatever, let's just go that way. So the key will be making sure that Kaminga feels all a part of things, even when you have to

minimize some of his role offensively. And right now, you know, as he's 23 and he's been kind of bounced around a little bit, and maybe he's taken a little bit of criticism for a lot of criticism for how all of the contract stuff has worked out. Maybe he comes in with the right mindset of just doing all of the dirty work. And then knowing that if he does that and they win at a high level, all of that money that he wants, or at least a lot of it, is going to come his way, whether it's in Minnesota or elsewhere next summer. I will.

I'm just going to point this out. Last 23 games of last season, Cody Williams, 16 and a half points, 4.7 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 47% shooting, 20% on threes. That's not great, 11 of 54, but 54% on twos. I understand the mechanics of the trade for both Minnesota and Minnesota had to do it to get under whatever apron and Utah, you know, sees an opportunity. I am a little surprised despite how many young guys on the wing that Utah has to find minutes for it. Like in those same 23 games, Bryce Sensible, average 23 points a game. Like so there's some garbage going on in those games, to be clear.

I am a little surprised that they cut bait on him so fast. The first year of his career was like incredibly ugly. Like there's no question about that. It was like, oh my God, is this guy just like completely unqualified? But he showed some stuff last year. He certainly got a frame to be a good defender. You know, he was picked right in front of Matas Buzellis and a little bit in front of Jared McCain and Kalele Ware.

Jalen Tyson. So it's like that's a kind of a bad whiff for the jazz. I actually think I'm going to be, he doesn't have to play, which is great for Minnesota. Like they have no, they're not invested in him the way Utah was. They're a pretty,

they have enough depth that they don't have to play him. He's going to get a shot and I'm actually kind of interested in how he does. I assume that they are kind of interested in him too. I understand he's a math part of the tradeback. I like the flyer. Yeah, I think that's what it is. it's a flyer. And, you know, obviously they, they waved and stretched John Conchard, the vet that came with

him in that deal. And they want to get a look at Cody Williams. I mean, Wolves fans have looked at this deal. And they remember back to the last time the wolves made a trade with the jazz. And it was, hey, we get Mike Connolly. He's the point guard. And, oh, yeah, they just threw in this other guy, Nikiel Alexander Walker. And he's just, you know, he just makes the math work.

It's not going to, there's nothing going to be to happen out of that. And Nikiel turns into. and is developed into an unbelievable role player for them, goes to Atlanta and takes another step. And he's a $20 million player now in the league. And will that happen with Cody Williams? I don't know. But I do understand and I think it's good business when you can acquire a young talent

and just see if getting him in a new system, getting around some new talent and a new coaching staff brings out something that another team wasn't. able to do. And so it makes all the sense in the world that, yeah, let's just see what we have here, bring them along slowly and don't put too much pressure on him. And if he develops into a wing for guy that can play some defense and, and just recapic a little bit in small situations, hey, that's a great thing. And they could use that in the front court for sure. I think it's a worthy flyer.

I'm not going to do their over under because Bill House and I are doing our second annual Over Under's podcast. I was the winner last year. It was like being the thinnest kid in Fat Camp. Like we all sucked, but I won. Take the trophy when you can get it. 47 and a half feels right. Interestingly, we'll talk about this on that part, but all of the numbers are really scrunched

because of the anti-tanking rules that are taking into effect. It feels like a good number to me. for Minnesota, I'm very interested to see how they do. I'm excited to watch their team. Did the Krasinski family go anywhere fun this summer? Did you get any downtime? We got to Hawaii just last week, so it was the first time I've ever been, and it was everything you could possibly have hoped for.

We were in Maui and just snorkeling, stayed at a resort with some swimming for the kids, and went hiking and found some waterfalls, and it was lovely. great thing about it, Zach, was that they had an ownership change in the middle of that. And, but it happened at like 5 a.m. Maui time. So I was able to get that done before the kids woke up and no harm, no foul. A new, new era with Mark's dad and the owners. But yeah, Maui and Hawaii was exactly what was needed at this point in August right before school starts.

So my wife and I have like, um, dream trip lists that we try to see like how aligned we are. We are aligned on number one, which is Japan. At some point, the low family has to take Japan. Hawaii is number two for me. I'm just like, I just have to go. And it's a little lower on her list because there's far-filling places outside of the U.S. that she wants to see. But that's a far-fling place.

I mean, from where I am, it's super far. From what you are, it's super far. How do you entertain the kids on vacation? What besides the activities you're talking about, do? When you all go to dinner, do you have a strategy? Do you have a card game? What do you do? So, yeah, actually, what we do is we tire them out so much during the day with activities.

And then by dinner time, it's like, hey, we're chilling. We're just going to have dinner. We're going to eat. We're going to tell some jokes. My son, like, will speak like, hey, dad, okay, who's your starting five if you could just start today? Like, he will talk NBA. He's just, he's just throwing first take topics at you. All the way in.

Yeah, it's Jordan versus LeBron. It's like, hey, you know, okay, all time, who would you take on the bucks? You know, so we go through the whole thing. And he asked about Bill Russell. And he asks, dude, my wife kind of like rolls her eyes and just like, can we have it? We're about to have nine months of basketball talk. Can we not? But so we'll have, yeah, we'll just, we'll just chat and talk conversation.

But usually they are so gassed by that time that we can have a little chill. I'll have a drink, have a glass of wine. and kick back and then and then we'll head back to the to the resort and just kick our feet up. But that's that's the whole style. Yeah, we don't try and do tricks or parlor games or things like that because they'll like chew that up and spit it right out at us. First of all, my daughter unleashed her first, really first take ready. Let's go. Sports take over vacation because we're, you know, we're, we're in Europe so we can't really watch the Mets play.

but they were pretty solidly over 500 while we were away and we're walking to the beach one day and we're talking about the Mets and she just goes, Daddy, I think we might be better without Soto. And I was like, whoa, whoa, that's a first take discussion. I was like, first of all, Mata, you're wrong. Like, she just doesn't really love Soto, but she's like, we're playing better. Like, maybe we don't need Soto.

And then she was like, what if we traded him to Baltimore to get Pete back, Pete Alonzo back? I'm like, this is just your programming, a great show. I love it. But here's our card game. I want to give an advertisement for, so Uno, obviously, is a legendary card game. Have you ever played Uno Flip? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a big one.

Yes. Uno Flip top 10 card game I've ever played. And we have a deal when we're in Croatia because she's with her another cousin who's 11 years old. The three of us play together. And if they combined can go on a winning streak of five against me. But they can't they can't collude. They have to play honestly to win. You trust them to do that?

Yes, because I will chastise them if they intentionally. They have to win five in a row against me. And then they get two scoops of ice cream instead of one. And let me tell you, John, I take such joy in crushing the ice cream. There was a day, there were a couple days where they couldn't even extend a streak past one. And I was talking so much shit. Yes. But nothing gives me more pleasure than when they get to four,

which happens because there's two of them versus one of me, and I snapped the streak. But Uno Flip, where you can see the card. I highly recommend Uno Flip. All right, John Krasinski, you're the best. Read everything he does at The Athletic to John Krasinski's show. I saw you did a live show with Tim Connolly and other guests at a brewery in Minneapolis. When I get out there this year, let's go to the brewery and have a drink.

You just tell me any time, we'll make a new live show for you. specifically and get you out there as well. Let's go. All right, John. Thanks, bud. I'll see you soon. Thanks, Zach. All right, enough Timberwolves. Let's zoom out and talk other stuff around the league. Moa tequila's here. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great, Zach. I mean, it's really hot in L.A. right now, but, you know, we're doing all right. I have not spoken to you in a month or so. We did text. The last time you were here, I vowed to text you something nasty if the Dodgers

acquired Tarek Scouble. They did. and I texted you, fuck the Dodgers. And so I wish you nothing but bad luck in baseball for the rest of the season. But look, you loaded up. Good, good for you. And now your owner is in a little bit of a little bit of something. So we'll see what happens. A little bit of something's probably an understatement.

It's definitely a weird situation. The Dodgers did that they normally do, which is completely suck in August so that we all freak out about them. But hopefully our bats will come to life here in September as we get going and we'll be ready to go for the playoffs. did enjoy the text message, though. I did enjoy that. I didn't realize until I, maybe the Mets played the Dodgers right before I left. I think, yeah, I went to a Mets Dodgers game, actually. And I did not realize that Kyle Tucker, who the Mets really wanted and then signed for a gazillion dollars with the Dodgers was having such a crappy, like a crappy season, a sub 700 OPS season for you guys. That made me very happy. I revel in failure. I'm becoming, becoming a fan again,

has reactivated the worst parts of my personality. That's fandom. So like Freddie Peralta, we trade him to the raise and he continues sucking. I'm like, good. I'm glad Freddie Peralta still sucks. I'm like, but no, wait, why? It's over. It's the sun cost for us.

And Phil, why do I care? Well, shouldn't I wish him happiness and success as a human person? And I don't. I wish him failure. And so far, so, and even my, even Brazaband, a really dependable reliever of the met straight. And he went to the White Sox. and he's been blah for them.

I'm less happy about his failure because he was a long time. But I'm, I don't like the person that I'm becoming rejoicing in Kyle Tucker walking up with the 68 OPS and me being like, oh, that's good. It's fandom. That's fandom, right? Fandum is loving your team and hating everything else against your team or anything that goes against your way. And yeah, man, the Kyle Tucker run has been brutal this season to the point where it's like

when he gets one hit, Zach, I'm just like, okay, maybe this is the start. Maybe we'll get some sort of push towards the end. But, you know, I'm holding out faith. Luckily, we got a lot of guys. We just got to get our vats going again. We've not been hitting. Our pitching's been great. The guys that think, especially now that we're starting to get healthy, got class now back,

got Snell back a couple weeks ago, you know, we're beginning to kind of get like, hey, guys are starting to go on, you know, one or two earned runs and things like that. but our bats have been just brutally quiet. I do have one important baseball take that is relevant to what happened over the weekend. There's only one team, maybe two, in all of sports, that I really, truly hate. And that's the Yankees. And so I'm now going to defend the Yankees. I don't know if you saw this yesterday.

They were playing the Red Sox. That's a good versus evil game for me. My dad is a huge Red Sox fan. And the Yankees were heads seven to one in the eighth inning. And Jazz Chisholm was on second base. And they were not holding him on. And he stole third. And the Red Sox radio announcers went bananas about how unprofessional it was.

It violated an unwritten rule. And like what a loser. What a Bush League, the phrase Bush League was thrown out. As you know, I think most unwritten rules are stupid. This, I'm now going to defend the Yankees. Seven to one, I just saw the San Francisco Giants. below a six-run lead in the ninth. Seven-one in the ninth.

And no outs, so stealing third, less than two outs has value. Hold him on or just let him or don't whine that he steals third. That's, that's, it's not 15 to one. It became 15 to one shortly after that. Seven to one, all bets are off. This is based. This is like the people come back from big deficits all the time. That's garbage.

I hate the unwritten rules. I hate it in the NBA and I hate it in baseball. Now, Jazz Chisholm has had some flare-ups with the Yankees and with other teams. He does some stuff that is, you know, like a little unusual for baseball players to do. But I had no problem with that. And, yeah, it hurts me to defend the Yankees. The other team I half hate is the Braves. Those are the only teams that I feel like real vitriol for.

Yeah, no, I appreciate the Dodgers aren't there in that hatred level of your stuff. But with the unwritten rule stuff, I'm so tired. of it. Like, it's like you said, either hold him on or don't complain about it. It's the same thing in the NBA when somebody dunks at the end of the game. Well, like, hey, you know, baby just play defense. It's that simple. Don't get your ass kick. It's really that simple. It's hard not to get your ass kick sometimes, but don't bitch about it afterwards. I'm just over all of that. I'm not happy that the Yankees are so good this year. That is upsetting me. And if it's a Yankees Dodgers World Series for the second time in three years, I'm going to be very upset. But that's a

different story. Okay, Mo, I just had John Presidenzky out. We talked about the new look, Minnesota, Timberwolves, Jonathan Cominga, and all that. We knew a couple big questions with Mo. It's August 31st. There's not much going on. A couple big questions with Mo. And we were going to focus on the playoff races. So big question number one for Mo.

The top six in the West last year, in order was Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Denver, Lakers, Rockets, Minnesota. It would be a surprise to me. if that were not in some order, the top six in the West again,

although some of those teams certainly have flaws. I think Houston is actually being a little underrated now that Fred Van Vlead is back. I think they have a chance to win a lot of games. But things happen in the NBA. Weird things happen. So my question is, who is the most likely team to unseat one of those top six and sneak into the top six in the West? Mo, who is your answer to that question?

Yeah, like when you look at it and it's tough with just how deep like the West is, I'm not sure anybody's going to, Zach. Like this is the thing. That's not the question, Mo. You got to play along. Okay, I'll play along. I will play along with you. I will go with, I think, and this is going to be a long shot here.

I think the Mavs might pull it off if they get a great Kyrie year. Wow. They were not even one of my like top five. candidates. Okay, let's talk it through. So you are super optimistic about the Dallas Mavericks. Talk, talk, talk. Well, I think, I think we really kind of underrate one, we haven't seen Kyrie play basketball in forever. And when that happens, we tend to forget how good of a ball handler he is, how good of a creator he is, how good he can get other things going. But I think the thing that's most important about all of that is how that unlocks Cooper flag. And I think that's really

an important sort of situation with what you're looking at is like so much was put on Cooper flag last year where he had the play point guard. He, you know, everything with the responsibilities he had as a rookie and having to deal with all of that stuff. Now you get to put him in spots where it's not all on him to create for everybody. Now you get to put him in spots where he can work at the elbow and go to work from there. Then he's going to be able to operate a little bit more in kind of a almost a little pick and roll action with Kyrie even would be fun to watch in that scenario. and the way that can kind of devolve.

I think there's a lot of stuff that they can do and play with that will open things up and then we'll open up stuff for the supporting cast around them, which I still really like. Like I'm, you know, look, Gafford, we got to, excuse me, not Gafford, lively. I'm definitely worried about the leg injuries and things like that. Like, that's definitely a big thing.

I'm trying to be an optimist and going to just, you know, zoom and just say, okay, if we get a good healthy year from him as well, like they got the size, they got good stuff. I like the way they're kind of set up. Is it, like I said, it's a long shot, but I think that's a team. I think that we're really kind of sleeping on. Interesting. I mean, they have real depth.

A lot of their, they have like 19 power forwards on their team or power forward type players in PJ, but they're all decent. Like PJ Washington, Santhi Aldama, Najee Marshall, Caleb Martin, Merez Johnson will see how much he can give as a rookie. Like they're, they all are different players, but they all on the positional spectrum are kind of four is Cooper Flag is actually kind of a four. So that mix and Riseschay too. I mean, Riesuchet is more of a three than a four, but he's, you know, like we'll see

what he can bring them. So I like their collection of talent. I'm just not sure how it all fits together and if they have enough shooting. But you're right. Like, Kyrie, one of the more interesting situations in the league, like I saw some reports somewhere while I was on vacation that teams in the league are monitoring the Kyrie Irving situation. What are the great no shit kind of reports in the NBA's teams are mon.

What do you think? If teams aren't monitoring Kyrie Irving, like, what would they be doing? Sleeping, of course, they're monitoring. He's a many-time All-Star who's on a semi-expiring contract. Will the Mavs trade him? I don't know. They don't really want to. He meshes well with Cooper Flagg.

Cooper Flagg loves him. We'll see what kind of start they get off to because calculations change. Teams change. And we'll see what happens. Of course, teams are monitoring, but he's an awesome player. He brings all the skills that they need to kind of make their roster click in place in one guy. That's a bold pick, Mo. It's a bold pick.

I'm going to reduce the overunders of the candidates that I just wrote down for this. I'm not doing overunders. I'm saving that for Bill's Pod. But here are the teams I wrote down in order from least to most wins projected. New Orleans, 28 and a half. I just wrote them down. I just was like, I'm going to, they have a lot of players. That's one thing I can say about the New Orleans Pelicans.

They have a lot of players. They did realize that they could sign and trade. for new ones recently, which is good for them. Dallas, 32 and a half, Utah, 37 and a half, Golden State, 38 and a half. Kind of a little higher than I expected, actually. Phoenix, 39 and a half. This is all on Fandual. Portland, 41.5.

I actually am a little bit surprised that Portland has the highest number of this group. I am going to answer my own question, and I'm going to pick Utah as the team most likely to unseed the top six. I don't think anyone is particularly likely to do it, but Utah will be my pick, even though they're the third most wins projected of this group. Phoenix would be my second pick. I feel like they're the most stable. They know who they are. They had a nice year last year going all in on defense and Dylan Brooks. They made a couple of trades that may or may not help them.

I think we'll help them. Their young guys will get better. Devin Booker is a great floor raiser. Like I think they're a pretty solid 40-something win team. But I'm going Utah. And the reason I'm going Utah is I think despite losing Kessler when they just got an offer, they couldn't refuse and they had to do it. I don't think they wanted to.

I really think they believed in this sort of triple big lineup. And they drafted Walker Kessler. He's an elite rim protector. He has more to give on offense, et cetera. talk more about him later in the discussion. I think there's some potentially special alchemy between the guards,

Keante George and Darren Peterson, but particularly if the Markin and Jaron Jackson Jr. combo can stay healthy for most of the season, I think they've got some potential to unlock something interesting there. I think everybody amplifies each other on both ends of the floor. Their depth is

a little scatter shot. I do like that they've added a couple of wing veterans, Josh Akogi and Josh Green, the Joshes, because their bench guys, obviously they'll stagger minutes among their starters, but their bench guys are like colliers, sensible, ace, Bailey, flip, interesting players,

but young players and somewhat unreliable players. So I like that they've got some veterans, but I'm picking, I'm picking Utah. Am I too high? I'm not, like, am I too high on Utah? I don't know. Utah.

No, no. You're not too high on it. If, you know, I wanted to be sensible, I would have gone with Utah, I think, is the most, you know, is the best answer to this question. If you wanted to be sensible about it. Oh, boy. I was, I was, I spent a good portion of our family trip, just intentionally annoying my wife and daughter with horrible dad jokes based on the places where we were. So, Finland was a great example of that. I could use finish in any number of different ways.

So anyway, I just, I guess I just have to get out. Well, no, I need to, I need to practice that, Zach, because as you know, at the end of September, I will be a dad, so I have to start honing in that skill, being able to, you know, just drive my wife nuts with dad jokes. But I think when you look at Utah, I just think the collection of talent is so good, you know, with the way they're kind of set up.

Like, I think however they want to go about it, My concern will be, you know, what's what's it look like with, you know, that's a lot of mouths to feed. How does Daryon Peterson handle that? How does Keonté, like all their playmakers are young players, right? And I think that's going to be the thing of how does they handle the responsibility of creating for everybody or making sure, hey, man, Triple J hasn't had a touch in like five possessions, you know, and we need to make sure he gets one and make sure he kind of starts to feel some of the action. Some of that's going to have to come from Will Hardy in terms of calling the plays and making sure he's pushing the right buttons. But I think their playmakers are so young. And going to play heavy minutes, like that would be my concern.

But when you just look at their talent, I think that's a team that's most likely the one that's going to be able to kind of jump into that top six and make that run into it. You know, with what they have with, you know, Peterson and Bailey as well, young guys, is super athletic. I want to see how that kind of plays out, how those two pair on top of that with Keante George. You know, you know what you're going to get from Triple J.

You know what you're going to get from Mark and need obviously. Can we just, the caveat for everybody just be healthy? Yeah. That's just the caveat. But like I think they need to keep on top of that stuff. I like having Nerkich, you know,

coming off the bench a little bit as a big guy, a little bit of a different look and everything that they have. I think that's a reasonable pick. And when you look at the teams, saying like they've done a lot from basically last trade deadline to now that they've made the most material change where you think this is really going to have the impact. And it's finally time for Utah to start winning games. Well, I think I think Nurkich is going to start to open the season. And I think that's that's the Kessler hit where it really hits home because Yusuf Narcich is a nice player.

He was very good for Utah last year. He's best as a backup now. And I think he's going to be overtaxed as a starter. surrounded by size and they have Jackson Hayes and Philpowski can play some center. Bombas here. We'll see how they fill that out. But you hit, you hit on the, the argument against my this collection of players could all amplify each other because of the shooting ability of Markanin and the shooting ability of Triple J plus his defense is it's not a great passing team. The best passer on the team is probably Collier who's going to come off the bench.

And so we'll see how they can sort of, I mean, Peterson is a good passer, but he's a rookie. And we'll see how he plays. But I think that's the caveat. I want to talk about the, go ahead. But also, like, the thing that concerns me, even with it was Kessler starting, like, the thing that concerns me is now you have marking and guarding threes. And that's something where I think you're going to really kind of start to find that problem. I don't know how long that can last for what they have, especially in the West and how difficult it can be. Well, now you're making me, now you're making me, because you want to. to say, well, A, he's done it before.

B, well, there's probably matchups where they can stash him on a whatever weak link player over there. But their starting five does not have like, okay, but this guy can go guard the apex wing on the other team. So like who's guarding Anthony Edwards? Who's guarding, you know, pick pick who's guarding Kevin Durant. Who's guarding what all these players? Yeah.

And I think that's going to be the, that's going to be the question that they do need to figure out if they're going to go with this Uber big lineup that they want. to kind of go with if they're going to start Nerkich. And then that's another guy who in space, not really somebody I'd really want to have to depend on in the pick and pick and roll defense. So they still, Zach, I still think it's the right pick, okay, but I just think there's questions. You're, you're moving away from your own pick, you're the Dallas Mapers.

Well, I went with bold. I went with bold. I just think we can do it. The other version of their starting five in theory would be Ace Bailey starting at the three and Nerkich coming off the bench and Triple J. playing center. I think they want to try out the super big lineup. There's also a world in which they just decide for the exact reason you're talking about. Like Josh Akogi is just constantly a spot starter everywhere. He goes like suddenly Josh Akogi starts 15 games in a row. Like that

wouldn't shock me either just to get a like a very good defender in the starting five. Let's talk about Portland. I was actually surprised when I went through the Fandul's stuff that they had the highest over under of this group at 41 and a half. That's a huge vote of confidence in Portland's defensive infrastructure, I think, headline by Donovan Klingan and Tumani Kamaro, who will start at the four and the five, where you can call Denny the four, I guess, whatever he is. You know, they're starting five. I guess they're really going to do this, Morant, Lillard, and then Obdia Kamara Klingan.

That would bring scoot off the bench with Drew Holiday. Robert Williams is back as the backup five. and Hansen Yang is here as well. They don't really have a proven backup four, and Beat Craychie is a backup point guard, and Shaden Sharp is out for six months with a meniscus injury. 41 and a half feels pretty high to me

based on the fact that that starting guard combination is dead on arrival defensively, no matter who's behind it. And I just, Morant is a complete wild card. The bench is kind of shallow. It's a strange brew of guys with a first-year head coach of Mike Anori who's on a one-year contract because Tom Dunnans has decided to operate like a joke. I don't, I would pick Phoenix and Utah over them.

I don't know. Maybe you'd just, I mean, defensively, they were really good last year. Maybe they can duplicate it. It just, I don't know. I don't see a team quite that good. it's really hard to duplicate what they did defensively when you're bringing in John Dane in your back court to start. Not that, I mean, obviously they have Drew Holiday. What he was playing last season, obviously your defensive level raises up another notch.

But when you're going to start those two guys, that puts so much pressure on you defensively. Denny, not quite what he was defensively before. Now is more focused in what he can do in terms of, you know, just let me get downhill attack and push and transition. So now it comes down to two guys having to cover for the other three. And that's a really difficult position to be in if you're clinging or Kamara in the position you're set up. And then I'm also worried about them offensively, Zach. Like I'm with you in that I would have Utah and Phoenix and even Dallas above them because at least Dallas has a framework and understanding of how they can attack. Offensively, this team is going to be really sort of almost confused, right?

Like is it Dane pick and roll action? Is it Jod pick and roll action? getting downhill. How does Denny play with that? Or how does he work in that? I know he can space a little bit. But at top of that, his breakout was him getting the ball and going downhill and get into the free throw line. Like being able to manage all of that stuff and work through all of that stuff offensively and finding your offensive system and your flow is going to be really difficult. Then Dame, who, you know, in the twilight of his career coming off in Achilles injury,

like, yeah, I saw the video. He shot 94% in practice. great. That doesn't matter in games, right? It becomes much more difficult in that level. And I know his shot's not what I'm worried about. It's him moving around on top of that. And again, figuring out how he's going to play. How is he going to work with Joe? Then you come off the bench. Like, I'm worried about Scout's development. You know, how much, you know, what's going to become Scoop Henderson now at this point with the way they're kind of set up? Like, I'm very curious as to like, what's their plan for him? How are they going to develop him? Or if it's kind of over for him and, in Portland and he's going to be a second draft.

I don't think it's over. Oh, is you in a second draft guy? Yeah, I, I see enough glimpses that I'm still interested. He's actually a pretty interesting, but I'm going to do a rookie class of draft class of 2023 extension stuff later this week with John Hollinger. He's an interesting case. I will see if they get a deal done, but I like him where where he is as a, as a, as a, as a, as a reserve for now, but who knows what happens. But the sharp injury is interesting and a huge bummer.

And also may not really even matter to their win total, which is a weird kind of dichotomy to say because he's been a minus defender his whole career. And I've always been intrigued by Shaden Sharp. Anyone who's listened to or read me when I used to write would know that. I mean, he averaged 21 points a game last year. Yeah. And it was just not.

but yet they get to the playoffs and his spot in the rotation shrinks and shrinks to the point of vanishing because he doesn't play defense well enough for the coaches. He's not much of a passer. He's a 33% career three-point shooter. And so it's kind of like great. You go on runs where you make some pull-up twos and get to the rim and all that. But like what is it really amounting to?

And so I can see their defense being better or just as good or whatever without Shaden Sharp. And offensively, despite the prodigious scoring numbers, I don't think he was like that central, as central to their offense as a 21 point score typically is. That said, they have so many point guards and so few like wing players. I guess Kamara's a wing and Denny's a wing, but, you know, Kamara plays like a standstill power forward on offense,

plays it quite well. And Denny plays like a point forward on offense that I was just kind of excited. for Shaden Sharp to get to feel kind of important to their team in even a even a bigger way. And now that's gone. And Drew Holliday is here. He's a wing. He operates kind of like a wing. But I don't, I, I've always sort of wanted more from Shaden Sharp.

And I thought, I think the numbers last year exaggerate his impact a bit. And I'm just bummed that it's going to be, there's been this setback. I don't know. Maybe you, maybe you are higher or lower on him than I am. No, I'm about right. there may be even just slightly lower in terms of just his overall, like, what's he going to be in the league at this point? And it's not a good sign when it's, you know, hey, you average 21 points, but a game and we didn't really feel your impact, right? Like, it wasn't in that way.

That's just not a good sign for any player at any level. And I think that's the thing that's a little bit concerning with him. But I do think it's just a blow because it's another guy that they lost in terms of athletic wing. You know, part of what made this team so good too was how fast they played. and he was part of that, getting up and down the court in the way that they played. So I think it's frustrating in terms of that. And again, I just, when I look at this team, you know, like I was frustrated with the Jod trade or when they went and got Jot.

Like for me, I just kind of looked at it as like, I know you got him for nothing or essentially nothing. But it was like, but at what cost will it be for your team? Because now I look at like we talked about the back court defensively, I don't know where he's going to fit in the offense and how that's going to work with him and Dame. I didn't know what it was going to do with him and Scoot and how that stuff kind of plays out. Like for me, just overall, this whole team is just kind of, I'm a little bit confused because I don't know how they're going to play yet offensively. And it's, I don't know if they know that.

And it's a really tough position to put one of my favorite assistant coaches, Mike Anores, in this situation. And then now it's on a one-year deal too with the team option for next year. You know, and I think it's going to be really interesting to see how he navigates that whole thing of putting. this offense together. Yeah, I mean, I didn't mind the Moran trade because I just thought, you know, Chris Murray, Jeremy Grant, fine. It's a, it's an upside gamble, but at low cost. He does have two guaranteed years left on his contract at big money. So you're, he's not going to be easy to unload if this becomes a disaster. And there is disaster potential for sure. I get, yeah, I mean, I get why they did it. We'll see how it all fits. All right, let's take a quick

break, then I'm going to do another big question with Mo. All right, big question number two with Mo. I gave you an assignment and it was pick your most exciting playoff race potential for the upcoming season. And that could be anything you want. It could be the race for the one seed in the West, presumably between the Thunder and the Spurs. It could be the race for the sixth seed in the West, which you've already kind of talked about.

It could be anything you want. What did you pick? I went east. Okay. And I went basically the top six in the east. We can just do the sixth seed. Because I got nine teams vying for six spots. And I think that's really like when we talk about finally like this being the

Eastern, the year the Eastern conferences is better than the West and everything with that. That's what we're talking about. Legitimately nine teams can be in the top six. And we're going to have three teams of those that are going to end up being in the playing. And I'm kind of just fascinated by that when I was going through it and I was writing all my notes last night.

I even had at one point had eight and then forgot, realized I forgot Indiana. Everyone's just forgetting Indiana, baby. Which is insane because I'm actually been really high on them and just completely whiffed on that when I was writing my notes. So it's nine teams for six spots. I'm fascinated by that. I have a couple of teams that I think are locked. But then it's after that, it gets really difficult.

So East Top Six was also my choice to this question. So we're aligned. I think this is going to be helter-skilled. from day one in the NBA. Every game is going to matter because there are some chalk, but there is going to be at least one team that ends up in the play-in, that if you told us today this team's going to be in the play-in, it would be like, holy cow, that team is eighth in the east.

So you had nine teams for six spots. I actually just, I have 10 to be kind. And Charlotte, who's over under his 38 and a half, was 11th for me. I think that's appropriate for them. I'd be surprised if they really butted into this discussion. If they butt into the play-in, I won't be surprised. I'm guessing that Atlanta is the team I somewhat charitably put in the top 10 that you did

not. Is that accurate? No, I had Atlanta in there. Okay. I'm trying to figure out who the. Do you want me to run through my list of teams? No, I'll read you. I'll read you the over-underers just because there's a clear drop-off in the middle.

of this. So top five over unders are all within 48.5 to 52 and a half. New York 52 and a half. I would lock them in. I don't know if you disagree, but they're a lock. Boston 50 and a half, I am not locking them in. No. I think that it's not, it's possible the Knicks are my only absolute stone cold lock to be a top

six team. Philly 49 and a half can't be locked just because. there's so much uncertainty, but they have a ton of talent, even if Embed misses 55 games. They just, LeBron, Jalen Brown, Tyree smacks, it's a lot of talent. Detroit, 48 and a half. A 60-win team is being downgraded to 48 and a half. Now, a lot of this, again, is because of the lottery rules. They actually might be my second lock just because they have a proven track record as like,

hey, this might get ugly in the playoffs for us offensively, but we, with our defense and our formula, if we're healthy, Cades healthy, during. is going to be back one way or another. I'm very confident. They just win a lot of games. And Cleveland, 48.5. Those are the five top teams by Vegas numbers. Then there's a three-win drop to Toronto, 45 and a half, Miami, 44 and a half, Orlando, 44.5, Indiana, 43 and a half, Atlanta, 42.

and a half. And if you had nine instead of those 10 and Atlanta was not your omission, I'm guessing Orlando was the omission. Yeah, I'm still hurt from last year as high as I was on them. They do have a new coach, Mo. So you know, I, so here's the thing, right? And I like Sweeney. But my also thing was like, we don't know what he is as an offensive coach. We know what he is as a defensive coach. Everywhere he's gone, he's been in charge of the defense for the most part and has done extremely well. Obviously, we saw what San Antonio was like we was in charge of the defense in Dallas when they went to the finals, if I'm remembering it correctly and everything. But we don't know what they are off, what he is offensively as a coach. And that was their

biggest problem was their offense. And the defense was terrible last year. Everything was bad last year. But like their offense was lack creativity and everything. I will be, I need to see that before I'm going to put them in the, in this category. So that, was my my one caveat. I think that's fair. I mean, we know what their starting five is going to be because it's the same starting five as last year. It's never healthy, but this is what the starting five is.

Suggs, Bain, Wagner, Benkero, Wendell Carter Jr. Their bench, barring a leap from Jace Richardson or De Silva, leaves me a little, a little nervous. It's just, it just lacks pop offensively. I mean, Vuchovic is here. I don't know if he's even going to play. He could be behind Goga as the third center. Anthony Black could be a very spicy contract extension case for the next couple of months.

He's averaged 15 a game last year, so he gives you a little pop. I mean, I don't, it's just, you know one or more of the starters are going to be injured constantly, and the bench makes me a little nervous. But I'm with you. I just look at this team. We've been waiting for so long for the Wagner-Bankero combo to really click. I mean, it clicked to the point that can you actually build a top 10 offense out of this? Suggs is never healthy.

He's sort of the keystone to making the whole. thing work. I just don't know how they just don't, their ceiling does not feel very high to me. I think their floor is pretty steady because they're going to compete on defenses they always have. I just don't, I agree with them being placed in this sort of second tier. But this is the most interesting race, the most interesting race in the league, I think. And I'll just say, like, odds are one of the four of Boston, 50s. Detroit or Cleveland is going to be in the play-in. I don't know which one.

I don't know. I think 50 and a half is high for Boston. And I love them. They are a regular season wins machine. They're counting on Mitchell Robinson, staying healthy quite a bit. Although, you know, Kada is good as a backup. Obviously, they have Paul George and not Jalen Brown. Bill has talked himself into that.

That was one of my favorite vacation trends was listening to Bill's pod and seeing him gradually go from hating this trade to tolerate. this trade to like maybe this is a genius move, uh, trade. Congrats to Bill on that. I don't know. Like I just one of one of those teams is maybe going to, well, I don't know, but because there's five and there's six spots. So I think Toronto, I think Toronto if this Kauai trade goes through is a very dangerous

team, uh, that could win more like a lot of regular, a decent amount of regular season games. And you just can't Miami and Indiana deserve a lot of benefit of the doubt, Miami, because because they acquired one of the top five to six players in the league in Indiana because they were in the finals a half second ago. So it's going to be, it's going to be spicy. But I agree with you, Orlando and Atlanta to me are like a tier lower. And then Charlotte is a tier lower than them. Yeah. I think for Charlotte is this might be a little bit of a step back year to take a massive step forward in the future with the guys that they have with with the lamello trade that they made.

But I think when I look at it, I had, I had Cleveland as a lot. they're the other team that I just think they have too much talent. I just think there's too much talent there for them not to be in the top six. And they finally plug the three spot with the Peyton Watson move, which I really like for them. You know, we'll see if Peyton Watson is, you know, the Peyton Watson in January who went completely ballistic for the nuggets. I don't even know if he's going to get those opportunities as much. But I think what he brings to that team allows them to change their lineups a little bit more and not lose so much when they go to. one big. And I think that's going to be

a real important thing for them. For me, the teams that I'm kind of question mark, like Boston, you know, you mentioned Mitchell Robinson. We also got to mention Tave him. Like he didn't play game seven. That's true. And we've never heard the reason as

to why he was out for game seven. We don't know if it was a setback with the Achilles. We don't know anything about it. Caff, whatever. We just don't know what it is. You know, and I think that's something to keep an eye on with everything on top of Mitchell Robinson, can he stay healthy? Paul George, what can you get from him on the floor?

I know Bill, like you said, Bill's kind of bought into it. And like Derek White, one of my absolute favorite players in the league, do we have a bounce back offensively from like kind of a nightmare of shooting season for him last year? Like that's now kind of a requirement for this team to hit expectations. Yeah. And I think that's a team that I'm looking at going like, okay, I don't know, you know, what's that going to look like in that I could see them getting a bunch of wins.

And I could also see it kind of them struggling a little bit in and out with guys and injuries and things. And then when we get to a team, you know, where you're kind of just like Toronto has gotten better if this Kauai trade happens. Like I would almost put them as a lock if the Kauai trade happens. It's hard to with just a pure fact of Kauai injury-wise and availability. But he's coming off his best offensive season in a long, time. I think there's a lot of stuff.

And he almost seems in Kauai fashion a little bit more excited this season. Like the fact they saw him at Blue Jays games this year is kind of like, oh, like it's almost like he's ready to, there's something, a little bit of the slightest vibe change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that way where I'm looking at it going like, wow, that's pretty impressive. So I think Toronto is a team that's going to be really impressive if that Kauai trade goes through. Well, and so you're talking, we're talking as if you're,

your pencil it in top six, if you, for forced to pick would be New York, Boston, Philly, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto. A top six that does not include a team that was maybe an injury away from at least going toe to toe in game seven of the NBA finals like a year ago, basically. And it doesn't include the heat trading for Janus. And so maybe that is the top six that we're outlining. And it's going to be more chalky than we expect. But it's hard to discount the heat and the. the Pacers. And the magic, they just, they do grind their, they just grind and grind and grind and they grind their way to a respectable number of wins. The Hawks, I think, are a little bit more

volatile and interesting. I mean, they're going to be interesting, but I, it's, it's just a tough, it's a tough field in these. All right. So that's, that's interesting. Boston and Philly are kind of the swing teams, but the talent is the talent and I'm optimistic about both relatively. So, okay, last homework assignment, we're going to start doing awards previews. And I gave you the most in the Weeds Award to talk about. Most improved player. I have like 50 names written down, but here's how we're going to do it. I did this last year too. I made you pick one player type from the following categories who could feasibly win most improved player. Player type number one, a traditional most improved player. Typically third, fourth year guy gets a bigger role,

makes a big leap. Those are the sort of classic central casting ones. Category number two, out of nowhere deep cut wow that guy improved that much and i barely even thought about him most improved player and player type number three star player who butts his way into this conversation because he makes a big change to his game or just has another leap in him in my example from last year that i picked and boy did it not really work out was chet holmgren um all right so let's go category number one who's your central casting most improved player it's going to be brandon miller for and be from Charlotte. I think that's the guy who you just described it to T when you described central casting, right? Third four year player, he's going to get a bigger opportunity now with

Lamello, you know, gone. He's going to get more reps on the ball. He's going to show more, you know, what he can do with the ball on his hands more often. They're going to need him to do a lot more offensively. I know they have Kobe White to help them with the playmaking and stuff, but they're all going to have to step up their playmaking level another notch. And I think that's the stuff we're going to start to see. And we saw flashes from him last season where I was like, damn, like, you know, there was the three-headed monster in Charlotte. But, you know, Lamello was the center head.

And it was the guy kind of getting everybody going. Khan got all the hype with rookie, you know, the run for rookie of the year and everything like that. I think he kind of, Miller got lost a little bit in the shuffle of that stuff. But I think he showed enough for me last season with the way he's. point and what I think is going to come, especially with the playmaking, I think that's going to be the guy that's going to have the best, you know, is central casting for me to win most improved? I don't, I'm betting you don't know this. He is on Fandul has the best odds of winning most

improved player plus 800, which is not great odds. He was on my list, my short list for this category. I just think, look, I'm very optimistic, and I've said before, Charlotte's surge last year coincided exactly with Brandon Miller getting healthy. Now he's still dealing with the shoulder thing in the offseason, but getting healthy and getting consistently available, 25 and 3, 20 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists last year. My hesitation with selecting him was, you know, a lot of the voters are just stats driven. They're not going to watch 40 Hornets games. Or is stats going to jump that much from 25 and 3?

They'll jump a little, but like if it's 22, six, and five, and the team has the worst record this year, is he going to be the odds on favorite? So here were my central casting type candidates. Brandon Miller and I eliminated a lot of guys. So forgive me if you guys not mentioned, that doesn't mean I didn't consider him. But these are like the finalists. Brandon Miller, Assar Thompson, who was my pick last year. And actually, I believe so his scoring average decline. So still room for him.

Ty Jerome quietly averaged 20 a game for the Grizzlies last year when he played. Cam Spencer and other grizzly. Cole Lair, I think, you know, like juicy potential traded to a team where he's going to get a lot of opportunity. He's one of the odds on favorites. Terran Shannon Jr. Kaysen Wallace, probably going to start for the Thunder. Average only eight a game last year, like what's unlocked there. Dylan Harper, Steph Castle.

Those are the sort of central casting ones. I'm going to go, I'm actually going to go again. My first pick was going to be a Sarr Thompson again. I'm going to go with Walker Kessler because he's obviously going to have a spotlight on him. He's going to get all the opportunity in the world to finish dunks and lobs and offensive rebounds. He's an elite offensive rebounder. His career high in points per game in a season that counts, like last year's five games, I'm just wiping away. Yeah.

is 11 points a game and his defense is going to, that team's going to sink or swim defensively to some degree. Like if it even treads water, it's going to be because Walker Kessler is an elite win protector. I'm just going to go Walker Kessler. It's not a really a big center award. It's more of like a scoring award. But I'm going to go Walker Kessler. That's going to be my most improved player central casting pick. Okay.

Now the fun one. The under the radar, where the hell did he come from pick? Moe de Kiel. So I want to preface this way. I've dabbled a little bit with the FIBA Euro qualifying games. I thought you were going to be like I've dabbled a little bit with hallucinogenic drugs. And this is where I ended up saying, yeah, that might be code for that, Zach. But I don't know if you caught what Pella Larson has done over the past few games.

It's a great, it's a great name. It's on my list. It's okay. Okay. So I was worried coming into this. I go, Zach might be like, I can't have Mo on anymore. you know, he dropped 31, 20, you know, just the other night, you know, they're playing the past two days. He's averaging about 27 points a game.

Look, it's small sample sizes. Two games, right? You know, 40% from three doesn't mean anything. It's four for 10. But I think there's an element of with where he's going to be in Miami and with all the attention going to be drawn to, to Yannis, especially Yonis' drives. Like, there's going to be opportunities for him on those. kickouts to get going. And they're going to need him on the floor. Like this team, you know, I know they added Clay. I know they, they, they're, they have some guys, but I think they're

going to need him on the four of the season to really kind of step up to that most improved level for them to crack the top six and make me look stupid for not even mentioning them when we're talking about them. I think it's going to be a thing where they need him to kind of step up that way. I think the opportunities are going to be there. He's got to take advantage of it because all the attention is going to be on Janus. The attention is going to be on Bam. I know spacing is going to be a little bit wonky there, but they're going to need him to kind of open things up on those second drives,

on kickouts and things like that and respond properly on that. So for me, I just went a little bit. I went with him. I like what I saw with what he's been doing with Sweden. That's my out of the dark horse possibility. You're not alone in dabbling with Fiba. I've obviously been, Croatia's offense has been off the, charge explosive.

Bill sent what I thought was a disturbing text yesterday to a group chat, saying he was watching Sweden, France, and that he thinks that Evan Fornier is going to play Fibba basketball until he's 50 years old. He's like the LeBron of Fibba. I was like, I'm a little worried about you. Pello Larson. So he's on my list. The reason I didn't pick him for this was he went from five points a game to 11 and

half last year. I'm not sure how much that jumps, but you're right. They're going to be on the radar a lot more. Two things about him or interesting. Number one, I think he was penciled in as a starter before they got Clay. And now I'm not sure about that. In fact, I could see them starting clay because they just, his shooting is so essential to just Bam and Janus working. And they need maximum defensive coverage for him. And that's when both those guys are on the floor. But there's a world in which he ends up supplanting clay as a starter for sure. He's also extension eligible right now, actually. And I think wouldn't surprise me if there were some discussions about that as the heat sort of start gathering for training camp. He's on a non-guaranteed deal. He's a

restricted free agent next in the offseason if they don't extend them. I think he's his max extension would be whatever it is, 140% of the league average salary or something like that. I could see them being having some interesting talks. They really, that he really like him. He's tough. He's a heat guy. It's a great pick.

My under the radar pick, and I went, I went pretty far under the radar to a team that I don't think is going to get a lot of attention of any kind this year. I just took notice of what Usman Jang did for the Bucks last year after the Thunder

released him or whatever happened and the Bucks picked him up. 30 games for the Bucks, 20 starts, 11 points a game for a guy who basically didn't play for the Thunder and was sometimes in the G League. I have to imagine the Bucks are, going to give all their young guys maximum opportunities once the season spirals out of

control for them, which it will. And they did just resign him this summer three years, 15 million, 16 million, something like that. He's going to be my pick. I could see him. Whoa, he's averaging 16 a game. Wow. That's exciting.

So that's my deep cut pick. Yeah. No, I think that's a very much deep cut. It wasn't on my radar. I wasn't thinking, dang. But like that's, I mean, that's what's coming with most improved, right? Like were these, Nikki Alexander Walker who won it last year. I don't know people were ready for him to be as good as he was on the ball and really kind of explode the way he did in Atlanta.

I think those are the things. It's the biggest thing is opportunity. It's getting the reps and the chances to do it. And I think that's going to be a big one there. So, yeah, I like it. That's why I think Kaysen Wallace has a real chance, you know, because on the one hand of Jill and Williams, winged Gillen Williams is healthy and Chet's healthy. There aren't that many shots. But now he's going to start, I think, with Dort gone.

We all know what he is defensively, an all-defense-level guy. If that just bumps up to, like, 14 a game and the Thunder wins 66 games and he's the full-time starter, I could see that being the case. Okay, the most fun category, I almost said funnest, which my daughter does to make me angry because I correct her grammar. She's actually transitioned to funnerist just to really enjoy me. Oh, wow. the star already established star who you could plausibly see being a candidate for this award. I'm going to go with Evan Mowgli. Oh, he was not on my radar.

That's a good one. Tell me why. Because everyone's a little down on him. Maybe that's why. That's part of it, right? Everybody's incredibly down on him. He didn't have the season that were what we saw two years ago from Mowgli, you know, in Kenny Axon, it really looked like he had unlocked him.

And this was obviously before the Hardin trade. but grab and go, attack in transition, facilitate the offense even at times and go to work from there. You know, one big thing we talk about, especially with these sort of this type of archetype of what we're looking at, what have you added to your game? What if he comes in and all of a suddenly is knocking down threes, shooting him at a high clip and knocking them down at the point where we're going nuts? But also, if he can tap into what he was two years ago where he's, you can facilitate offense through him a little bit, take a little bit of pressure off of hard and a little bit of pressure off of Mitchell during the regular season.

I think there's a legitimate case to be made that he could have a chance at most improved. Obviously, the three-point shooting would be a big part of it as well. But I think if he can just go back to what he was two years ago, I think there's a legitimate chance. And he's one of those guys that we kind of look at going to establish star for the most part. Maybe I'm stretching the term star a bit. But like, I think that's a guy I look at going like, yeah, that's who I think is going to have a good chance at it. That's a bold one. I like that.

They're just going to be, I talked a lot about them last week with Rob Mahoney because of the Watson trade. They're going to be, there's going to be some wrinkles to iron out offensively when the two bigs and Watson are on the floor and Hardin has the ball a lot and all that. But I mean, they're going to be very, very good. But there's just going to be some sort of wrinkles and roll definition to iron out of it. But that's a good pick. I feel very good about my pick. I actually kind of expected you to have the same pick as me for this. my expectations almost could not be higher for Scotty Barnes.

I think Scotty Barnes is the kind of start. Now, you might say he's above this. He's a two-time All-Star, a fifth and defensive player of the year voting last year. He averaged 18 a game last year, 51% shooting, 30% on threes. He actually averaged 19.3 the year before and 20 year before that. So the scoring dropped last year.

I was so impressed. with almost in awe of his sheer effort level in the postseason against the Cavs. Now, they lost that series in seven. He was the best player in the series. Defensively, he's going to be a defensive player of the year candidate. I mean, he was just monstrous all season. And in the playoffs, he was legit terrifying defensively. I think, like, we'll see one if assuming the Kauai trade happens.

Obviously, Kauai will be the leading score on the team. They have, like, R.J. Barrett is a borderline 20-point score. I mean, it quickly is going to give you 16 to 18 a game. Like there's not that many points to be had. But if this goes from 18.7 and a half rebounds, six assists on 51% shooting and then in a borderline like non-existent three-point shot, you know, 2.8 attempts of a game, 30% shooting. If that goes to like 22, 9 and 6 assists and the three ball comes up to league average and Toronto wins 51 games, first of all, in general, my expectation. Well, it's going to be, it's going to be hard. Like I was about to say, I expect Scotty Barnes to make all NBA.

He probably should have made it last year. I mean, if Kauai gets to 65 games, he's an all NBA player. Are the Raptors really going to have two? But I would say, like, to Scotty Barnes I saw in the playoffs, like, obviously the sheer urgent effort level is not going to be like that every single night over 82 games. That guy is a no-brainer, all-NBA player with a bullet. And Kauai's probably not going to get to 65 games again. So I'm going to say Scotty Barnes makes all NBA.

And he's my pick for this, for this designation. Yeah, I think it's a good one because I think ultimately, too, when you have Kauai on your team, you need to have somebody that's the linchpin for everybody else, right? Like, that's what happened in Toronto last time when they had him, right? It was really Kyle Lauer and those guys. And then when they needed buckets, they just went to Kauai for the most part. But like he, and Kauai took over and was phenomenal defensively and everything. I'm not trying to poo-poo what he did.

in that finals run. But I think it's a level of like, cool, Kauai's going to go get his. Who's going to set everybody else up in that way? And I think that's an area where Barnes can really thrive in that being that kind of role in that sort of that cog in the offense to make sure everybody else is getting part of what they need to as well as him getting his. That's a good one. That's a real good one, Zach.

And again, like he said, he was awesome in that seven game series. He was awesome. It was so much fun to watch him. I mean, look, to wrap this up, the East is going to be just every game is going to feel really important in the East. And we'll see how the season evolves, right? We could get to 40 games and there's a little bit more polarization in the standings than we expect. But like these 10, 11 teams, every time they play each other, it's going to feel you're going to have this in the back of your head. Like, this game actually kind of really matters.

And that's, and that's exciting. Right. Oh, DeKiel, where are we going to see you this year? What should we be looking out for? Well, I got some stuff coming on Bleacher Report in the next couple days. A couple of articles will be dropping over the early part of September. Unless anybody has told me differently, I'll be doing my stuff on NBA TV on the weekends. And then we're going to go from there.

Everything else is still up in the air, the double-dribble podcast on Real GM Network with Jared Dubin. We're still cooking there. We're going to start our season previews really soon, actually, starting, I think, today. So we're going to have that stuff going. hopefully be adding stuff as the year goes. And here on the Zach Lowe show, we're back up and running twice a week. We'll be back on Thursday with an episode on contract extension talks and all that stuff. We're going to talk.

We're going to have some special sort of non-MBA guests coming up and start rolling out these awards previews like we did today with most improved player. Monta Kiel, you're the best. Thank you, sir. Maybe I'll see you soon in Los Angeles. Go Mets. Boo, Dodgers. Well, go Dodgers. And good luck to your Mets.

I know you guys need it. Thanks, buddy. All right, that's it for today's episode of The Zach Lowe Show. Thanks to John Krasinski. Thanks to Mo DeKiel. Thanks, as always to Jonathan, Mike and Billy on production. And thanks to you all for listening to and or watching The Zach Lowe Show. We'll be back on Thursday with a new episode looking forward to lots of other stuff that's going to happen in the NBA,

contract extension, season outlook, all that stuff. Hope you enjoy it. Thanks again. 21 are over in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C., Kentucky. here, Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or 1-800-Mai reset. Call 1-888-78-9-77-or

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