The Zach Lowe Show - Who’s the Top Pick? Plus, Giannis Trade and Most Interesting Offseasons.

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Zach is joined by Jonathan Givony to discuss the looming Giannis trade, who will go first overall to the Wizards in this year’s NBA draft, and which teams have the potential for the most interesting offseason. (0:00) Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show! (01:34) Jonathan Givony joins the show! (4:00) Looming Giannis trade (9:17) Who is going first? (20:50) Trae Young declines his option (28:15) Nets must get going (32:21) Risers and fallers (38:08) Most interesting offseason teams Host: Zach Lowe Guest: Jonathan Givony Producers: Jonathan Frias and Mike Wargon Social: Keith Fujimoto and Michael Szokoli The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor,

free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. The 2026 Chevrolet Tracks is the stylish SUV for those on the move. And with the standard Chevy safety assist package, you have the backup to handle every turn with confidence. The 26 tracks, start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Up on the Zach Lowe show, it's Friday. Yonis is going to get traded probably at some point.

We don't know when and just screw it. Let's do a podcast anyway and make it all draft. Jonathan Gavoni from Draft Express, the best in the business. He knows everything that's going on. He's seen all these players from when they were little pups learning how to play basketball at a high level. He gives us all the latest on who is Washington taking it number one. Is it actually going to be Darren Peterson?

Does anybody actually know? What are the ripple effects of that pick going down to two, three, four? And then the morass from five to 18 teams trying to trade up, trade down, trade down, trade in, trade out, all these guards. Who are the clippers taking? What are the nets going to do? They just took a million guards. Are they going to trade down? The Kings, do they really want a cuff that badly that they're going to?

trade up. The Hawks at eight is their pick and play. Is the Warriors pick and play? The Thunder have two picks. The Grizzlies have two picks in the top 18. What are all those teams going to do? We get into all of it. I've actually watched some college basketball in the last few days. I'm learning a little bit. We talk about some of my hot takes from those and just sort of everything that's going to happen in the draft. And yes, we talk Janus, the latest on Janus. Do we still expect to trade before the draft? And then some finals takes that I don't like. And my most interesting offseason teams that aren't at the top of the draft or in the Janus vortex, just other teams I'm watching. That's all coming up on the Zach Lowe show.

The Zach Lowe show, it's Friday morning. I wasn't actually going to do a show today because we're all on Yonnas spots. You could get traded anytime, but you know what? Screw it. I'm not letting this hold up my business. The draft is in, what, four days or something crazy like that. There's a lot of intrigue. There's a lot of movement. Let's just have fun. If Yonis gets traded tonight, we'll do another pot. Jonathan, phoney, draft express, just one of one in terms of draft intel and analysis. How are you doing? I'm doing great, Zach. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm on Yonnas watch as the whole league is. We all have been. It's been a while now, Zach. Can we move out of four lives? Years. I've waited so long

for this to happen. I'm like the old lady in Titanic at this point. How mad will you be if it doesn't happen on draft night? No, I don't get mad. I don't get mad because one of the things I've realized in my old age of doing this job is I can't control these things. I can't, I can't, like, I can't, they're not going to happen conveniently to my podcast or personal schedule. I can't control how long series go in the playoffs and how much I have to travel and who plays with you. You just have to just, just let it happen.

Just got to let it happen to you. And look, I have a busy, this is, this is the most suboptimal possible sequence of events. So normally the draft is on a Thursday, right? Like Thursday Friday has been the cadence of the draft forever. So I'm going to reveal this as a first is a scoop on the Zach Lowe show. Several months ago, the New York Mets approached me about a number of things. I do this Mets corner segment on the podcast that they have liked because I'm just a crazy fan. They're like, hey, among the things is like, would you want to throw out the first pitch on June 22nd?

And I was like, hell yeah, June 22nd, Monday before the draft, a little bit of a hot zone, but it'll be fine. It'll be great. And then, lo and behold, we can time that to stay overnight as a family in Queens, fly out the next day to Toronto to watch Croatia play in the World Cup, probably two days before the draft. We're getting in the hot zone. But, you know, whatever. Like, it's World Cup.

And now that's the night before the draft. I will be throwing out the first pitch in City Field, weather permitting. The weather doesn't look great because I'm freaking cursed and the Mets are cursed. And then I'm flying to Toronto. He can get traded while I'm screaming. in what is now a must-win game after a disappointing first game for Qua. And you know what, Kavoni?

There's just nothing I can do about it because he's either going to get traded or he's not, but will I get angry? No, I will say, before we get into the draft draft, I still expect him to, I would still bet on him. I want to use that language, getting traded before the draft. I think everyone kind of wants us to happen.

My favorite bit of reporting in the last week has been, sources say Milwaukee doesn't love Miami's offer. Really? Is that a revelation? Because if they love Miami's offer, I think he'd be on Miami and would have been on Miami like two months ago. Miami is in it, right? I think Boston is in it to some degree, the degree I'm not entirely sure what it is, but they're in it. I wouldn't even rule out like a mystery team still kind of lurking on the fringes. And obviously, all of this is a lot of it anyways contingent on where Yanis is going to be willing to indicate that he will sign an extension in October. still think it happens before the draft, if only because, you know, Milwaukee will want a first round pick in this draft. A lot of teams, you can probably speak to this, are trying to get an extra bite at the apple in like the middle of the lottery because people just love this draft.

And they'll want to, you know, they'll want to have control of another pick. But it wouldn't, it wouldn't shock me if it goes past the draft, but I would still bet on it happening before the draft. What about you? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm thinking back to the trade deadline when we all thought Janice was going to be traded and then he wasn't. And I followed up with some of the teams that were involved in and they said, listen, they played this brilliantly. They wanted to see everybody's best offer. They made us all feel like this is happening any second now. You better get your best offer in. They waited till the very last second and they kind of dangled them in front of our faces. And then they pulled the rug out. And now they know what our best offer is. And now they're

going to do this again, you know, and so they're going to, you know, they're going to take this on to the clock. And I mean, like, is it, is it going to, is it going to happen here? Like, you know, with the 13th pick or whatever that like that's when Yonis gets, gets traded. I'm not sure. But they obviously, like, this is a big move for them and you only get to do this once. So they're going to take their sweet time with it. Yeah, I think what's happening here is very simple. The draft is still four days away. Miami's offer is what it is. We can assume it's a combination of Tyler Hero, a filler salary attached to decent, intriguing young players. I would guess, well, they could go out further, no.

Like, they could, like, sweeten the pie. Well, this is what I'm saying. Like, we, we know there's an offer like that with picks and number 13, and they can trade more future picks on top of that. I'm sure Milwaukee's like, cool, that's our floor. Like, we're going to sniff around and at the very least, or we're going to act like we're sniffing around or both, and hope to get one more extra thing out of you.

And by the way, a couple other notes on this. The Rozier thing falling away as salary filler for Miami is a really big deal because it actually strengthens their offer and weakens their ability to not strengthen their own offer in a lot of ways. And there are still, I think, mechanisms where I think Hero has to be in the trade. And I actually think Milwaukee, I've heard Milwaukee could flip Hero for a decent, like more draft equity so that they can frame this as like we get, you know, five first round. picks in the deal or something like that. I'm not going to speculate on where, but I think there are going to be deals available for Hero if that's the way Milwaukee wants to go. And I do think Miami has constructions of the trade where Wiggins, and they have a team option on him, or is it a player option, I can't remember, it's some kind of option. And Norm Powell,

who's an unrestricted free agent, they have his bird rights, are both still on the heat. I think that's like their ideal scenarios, at least keep those two mid-sized to semi-high salaries on the team as talent as players around Bam and Janus and whatever is left over. They're still the safe bet, but I, I, I'm prepared for anything. And I'm also prepared. I'm also prepared. I, I, I want to jinx myself, Gavoni. I'm going from the mound at City Field. I'm not doing the thing that Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson did where they, now they have to worry about injuring themselves, but they went from in front of the mound. I went to my local high school, threw the tarp off the mound and practiced from the mound, because I'm going to

try. I'm going to try to do it. Why not? I'm never going to do this again. I'm going to go out swinging. Hope you do a better job than our boy Victor did. Dude, there's been some bad first pitches in the history of first pitches. And here's what I don't need from- The bar has been set pretty low for you. Here's what I don't need from my friends and family. I don't need people sending me 50-cent and Gail King and everyone who fucked up the first pitch. I don't need it in my head. I don't need it in my head, all right? Just like stop doing that. It's not helpful. Any parting thoughts on the Yonnes thing? I don't know. I hope it happens. You know, I'm betting on, I'm imagining it's going to end up being Miami, you know, like just because they, they really want him, and that's where Yonis wants to be,

and he's got a big say on this, you know? And so if you're going to give up all that, you better know that you're going to keep him. And so that's, it feels like they're, you know, that's where we're all kind of expecting him to end up. And that's, that's my guess where this goes. Okay, let's start at the top of the draft where Washington controls the process. Now there's all this reporting. Mark Stein reported that Washington is uncertain, is debating between Peterson and DeBanza. Jeremy Wu, your old colleague at ESPN, just changed his mock draft 15 minutes ago to put Peterson at number one over DeBanza. Again, I will say this.

It's not like Washington's front office is going to be like, hey, Zach, just so you know, we're taking player X. So everyone is playing a guessing game to the point that I talked to a high-powered agent last night who just flatly said, oh, they're taking to Banta. Ignore everything else. And then all this other reporting comes out. And I've heard some of it, too, that Peterson's back on the board. Who knows? I don't think there's going to be a trade. Right now, I think the top four teams are going to stay the top four teams.

You have been consistent that you think Peterson is the best guy in the draft. Do you still think Peterson is the best guy in the draft? And what's your best read, whatever you can share about? Washington's intentions as we approach the weekend. I mean, I've been hearing Peterson at one from the very start, you know, like, so I was just, you know, I came on the show the night, the day after the lottery, and I was like, why, why was the whole lottery show about AJ DeBanza, you know, like I struggled with that. You did.

And I was like, he's not, he's not Cooper Flag. It's not Victor Wimbunnyama. It's not any kind of home run where they're just like taking AJ de Bonsa and we're off to the races, you know? Like it's a real conversation here. Do I know who they're taking? No. Have I done a lot of work on it?

Also, no. You know, like I don't miss those days of, you know, having to call every agent, call every team. What have you heard and trying to track down? Trying to figure out who's lying and how aggressively they're lying. You know, like who picked them up and, you know, like Washington, they're very secretive and for a good reason. But I would think that they, you know, it's a real debate for them.

And you can't fuck this up. And this is exactly what I said, you know, like. a month ago. You only get one chance of this and nobody's going to care that, you know, Asia de Bonza was the safe guy. And, you know, if Darren Peterson is the best player, then this is going to be a stain on your record, you know, for the rest of your career. So you better make the right choice. And, you know, I think it's Peterson. You know, reasonable minds can disagree and you could tell me that Agent DeBonza is the most talented guy. And he has a very strong argument. Agent DeBonza is going to be a very good NBA player. So,

So I can't wait to see how it all plays out. It's so much more fun when we don't know who the number one pick is. You remember this crazy Jabari Smith, Paolo Bancaro, Chet Holmgren. I mean, the Orlando Magic never brought Paolo Bancaro in for a workout. You know, I mean, that's, I remember going to Mike Miller. An hour before the drafts in, Mike, who are they taking? And he said, I don't know, man, you know, like there was a last minute Zoom. then, you know, and to not bring a guy in for the number one pick that just shows you, like,

they really, really struggled with this and they, and they had a tough choice to make. You know, it turns out they probably should have taken Chet, but, you know, I'm out good, the playoffs might, you know. I was going to say, my most recent memories of Chet are him falling over, trying to dribble baseline and dropping the ball a lot. But, yeah, I think that. If you look at the overall, you know, body of work, you know, we're all prisoners of the moment here, but like, Chad Holmigan helped him win an NBA championship last year. And, you know,

he, his role was a little bit different, you know, like his job was to draw Victor out of the paint. He didn't do that very successfully. But, so, you know, I think, I'm hearing Peterson, but, you know, I haven't done as much work as I usually do on this kind of stuff. So we'll see how it plays out. Here's, here's, first of all, I completely agree with you. I had Kyle Mann on a few days ago and I threw out the comp to the Bancaro Smith, Holmgren draft of like the last minute flip-flops, the odds change. Like Jabari Smith is number one for a long time. He ends up getting picked third, which turns out to be the appropriate order of selections in that regard. I don't think Washington is trading the pick. I don't think, to the best of my knowledge,

that they know with certainty right now who they are taking. I think they're leaning one way and I don't know which way it is. And I don't think anybody really knows as that, conversation with that agent I mentioned last night. It's like, oh, yeah, for sure, they're taking this guy. I'm like, okay. So here's what I'll have you do. Because the finals ended relatively early, I've actually treated myself to some college basketball. Like I watched some full games and like, I can't, there's no way that I can cram, right? I can't cram from a year of not really watching college basketball because I watched two or three NBA games a night. But I'm like, let me get more of a taste of some of these guys. And it has been so much fun because I know that I can't

make up for lost time. And so like yesterday, I watched an Arizona, Kansas game at Arizona, where it just reinforced that I really like Brandon Burrys or Braden Burrys. I'm saying their names wrong. That's how late I am into the game. And Peterson, I think, was coming off some missed time in that game, was super quiet in the first half. And I'm texting Scouts like, I'm watching this game. Like Peterson's doing nothing. Burries is amazing. Like, oh, my God. And then in the second half, all of a sudden, Peterson has 22 points. Fran Faschilla is losing his mind on commentary about how good Peterson is. And then all my scouts are like, look, if you really want to see Peterson, you got to watch

this high school game, which I did a little bit of. You got to watch this game against Baylor and this game against whoever. And I'm like, man, it's got to be so, you really have to see the full body of work, obviously, to make an informed decision. I can't do that. But I will say this. Peterson is what, 6, 6, 6, 6 with shoes? DeBanza is like 6.9, 6, 6.

eight six nine with shoes. Peterson had this wildly strange college season. I will say you probably heard this too, that although there is a great deal of skepticism about the public creatine explanation for the cramping, all the medicals, all the testing everybody has seen that every team is satisfied that they've seen everything they need to see and that Peterson's medicals are fine. And there is no issue here to be worried about whatever happened, happen. Nobody's really worried about it. So aside from that, make the case for me that the smaller guy with the more strange college season, better high school season probably, but more strange college season, is actually the right guy for the Wizards and ignore fit. Like, let's just

pretend the Wizards are a blank slate, which they're not, but make the case. Yeah, I think that Darren Peterson is going to end up being the engine of an NBA team. I think he's a 6-6 version of Damien Lillard. And so that player that we saw in high school that can change speeds with incredible force, get paint touches, finish with both hands, pass off a live dribble, make shots from anywhere on the court, that is an all-NBA player. And that's the guy that you can win a championship with. AJ DeBanza is going to be a 25 point per game score in the end.

NBA, he's an incredible talent in his own right. I'm just not sure that he's somebody that you can win a championship with. You know, with his style of play, really ball dominant, you know, mid-range, Bowie Ball, Tunnel Vision, you know, inattentive at times defensively. I'm worried about that. Now, Darren Peterson, there was a lot of chill there this season. And we didn't see that extra gear that was so tantalizing in high school where he's just, you know, playing off that right-handed hezine, just blowing by people and finishing above the rim. We never, we saw that in really small doses this year, but it wasn't as consistently as we saw Asia de Bonza. Asia de Bonzo has this incredible will to score, this like insatiable hunger to put the ball in the,

in the basket that I missed from Darren Peterson. Like, I was really disappointed in the way that that he went out. You know, that last game against St. John's. Okay, he had 21 points still, Darren Peterson. But down the stretch, it's like, man, go take the ball from Melvin Council and go win this game. He was really, like, playing the three. It was all these bad shots from Trey White and Melvin Council.

So, like, okay, some of that is on the coaching staff. they were kind of unrecognizable, you know, like with terms of like what you normally expect to see from Kansas. You know, Bill Shelf was obviously, you know, he wasn't healthy this year. And so I wonder like if we saw the best version of Darren Peterson, like what I cannot let go of what I saw, you know, the whole week in Brooklyn and McDonald's own game, every practice, every scrimmage, the game, you know, that whole season of prolific prep that, incredible game against, you know, DeBanza, you know, where he, the guy averaged 30 points a game, seven assists, you know, he would make incredible shots all year in high school I'm talking about. And, you know, that, that really stuck with me. And that's why Peterson has been number one on my board all year. And from what we're hearing, you know, like that version of him

has been on full display, you know, in the pre-draft process, in work. in L.A., playing against NBA players every day. And people are saying, like, this guy is going to be a superstar in the NBA. And I'm sure if that's what Washington saw in their private workout, that's going to be really, really hard to let go of. You mentioned a private workout. I want to reiterate this. The Jazz were not surprised that they are apparently to this point not going to get a private workout from Darren Peterson. and I don't think they really care.

I don't think that's going to influence who they pick or not. Do you, was what I said about the health checking out okay with teams, have you heard that same thing, or am I wrong on that? No, I've heard the same thing. And it was obvious also just like watching him this year at Kansas that like he was not himself. Like it was not the same player. There was like a tentative quality to him where it's like, instead of just,

just, you know, blowing past people with that incredible change of speed, that incredible force. It was a lot of mid-range pull-ups instead. And like, just from the very first game, it was like, this is not the exact same guy that I saw. You know, like, he's obviously, he's not comfortable. You know, was it the hamstring? I don't know, you know, like, but. And so, yes, I mean, that, I mean, that all checks out. It checks out from what we hear.

It checks out the medical. It checks out on the film. And so, like, I know what I saw. Like, there is another gear there for. Aaron Peterson that we didn't see consistently this year at Kansas. You could make the argument that if they just love both DeBanza and Peterson equally, that Ty would go to fit. And I think Peterson is a little bit of a smoother fit.

It depends, depending a little bit on Trey Young, right? Like this Trey Young thing is a little bit strange that he opted out of, that it's already being reported that he is, I think is, is, is a little bit. mid to late June deadline, opting out of $49 million next year. It could be as simple as this is prearranged and he's going to opt out and resign for three years, whatever, with a starting salary that's a little lower, a little whatever, a little different, that there's some reason why he opted out instead of opt in and extend.

It could also be that his agents know he has a max somewhere and I don't know where that would be. I've heard conflicting. I've heard both accounts potentially being true. And so if he has a max somewhere, he has a max somewhere, they know he's going to opt out. And the wizards are going to have some work to do to bring him back. But given, I mean, I guess I guess they both fit very well. The Wizards have a lot of wing and big guys. I don't know how important Anthony Davis is going to be to our long-term future, Davis,

Sarr, et cetera, Kishon George, Kulibali and all that. Maybe none of that really matters. But that's an interesting one to me. And I'm looking at the ringer, our big board, Kyle Mann just updated his. And he has Camboosur at one. And I will say, you may have seen this on Instagram. They pulled this out. I fell in love with Camboosor watching a couple of full Duke games and some other clips of him.

I just think he's awesome. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player. And I think I should have been clear about this. Again, I know nothing, right, compared to the draft next. I don't even loving what I saw from Cambuzer and what a genius IQ processor playing from a step ahead, the passing, the versatility, the shooting, running pick and roll, screening and pick and roll, all that stuff using angles, like a little bit of Yolkechee stuff in his game, not to compliment all, just a little bit of that. I still don't think based on, again, my limited viewing that how much I love him, I still don't think I would take him number one because these two guys have such. crazy superstar upside in terms of like engines on offense that I'm not sure boozer is quite that. I could be wrong.

But I am prepared for like, I'm prepared for anything in this draft. Like I'm prepared for the 2% possibility that Washington has decided, fuck it, we're taking Camboozer number one. Or the whatever percent possibility that Utah is like, oh, DeBanza fell to us. Guess what? We're taking Peterson. Or we're taking, we're taking Boozer number two. Like, I'm prepared for anything.

And I think Memphis and Chicago are sitting there being like, like, hey man, we're cool. Like whatever, whatever falls to us, we're thrilled with these top four guys. But it's interesting that Kyle moved Boozer up to number one. But that's where I stand. Or not his mock, right? Yeah, it's his big board, not a mock, I think. But I would be surprised if it's not one of the, of DeBanza and Peterson at one.

I would be very surprised. Yeah, I think me too. Yeah, for sure. You could make arguments for both of them. And this tray thing is a little weird. I would still bet on Tray being back with the Wizards, but who the hell knows? And then the draft really begins at five with all of these guards. And, you know, Clippers, Brooklyn, Sacramento, Atlanta at eight is super interesting.

Dallas at nine is super interesting. Milwaukee, Golden State, Oklahoma City. And I've heard, I don't know if you've heard this, I've heard New Orleans is calling really aggressively to get into this range of the draft with a specific player in mind. I don't know who it is, but, you know, there's just so much intrigue with the clippers have Garland. How much is that going to impact their selection? Then that's just drafted a whole bunch of point guards. How much is that going to impact what they're going to do? You've probably heard these rumblings that, like, is Brooklyn going to trade down into the range where there's like more wing guys available,

pick up an asset. They don't want one of these guards. I don't know. Sacramento, all of this noise about like they love A Cuff, Scott Perry coached A Cuff's dad, are they going to trade up with the clippers to make sure they get A Cuff? I would bet against that based on what I've heard. But again, the intel is all over the place. I don't think Sacramento is like A Cuff or Bust or trading up. We're going to do something reckless. My read on them as best I can get it.

And it may be wrong. I want to be clear is that they're going to be cool with whatever falls to them. But that could be wrong too. But like just in that range, what's most interesting to you, whether it's trade up, trade down, trade out, a particular player that's floating around that range, kind of wildly varying degrees? Like, what's interesting to you? I think it's the clippers. You know, I mean, it's such a tough decision for them. I mean, they made this huge gamble trading Zubots for the pick. They won on lottery night. You know,

they have the pick now. It's an incredible win for them. But now you got to pick the right guy, you know, and like, and it's not like they're ready to take a guy and then, continue to rebuild her for three years. I mean, like, they've got a team that is built to win now. And so, but at the same, so do you, a lot of these guards, you don't already fit with garland. And so, you know, Acoff, you know, even McKell Brown defensively, it's not a, it's not a great fit, but like, you don't draft for fit at this point in the draft.

You want to, in five years from now, you want to be able to say, I got the best player at this, at the spot that I was drafting at. And so that's what makes it such a tough decision. And so I'm sure that, you know, they're fielding all these calls and, you know, but I don't, I mean, you said earlier that you think that like there's so much, so many teams want to trade into this range or so much, you know, I don't, I mean, I would, I would think that like, it's kind of a normal draft here, this five to 10 range, you know, like.

And so I think even below, I think even below that. And I think part of that is because, um, people think golden states pick at 11 might be in play, and the Thunder pick at 12 might be in play because they have two of the top 17. And then 15 to 18 is four straight teams, Chicago, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Charlotte, who they have traded for that pick. They're not the original owners of that pick. So I just think there's a lot of like, there's a lot of thinking some of those picks

could be available for various reasons. No question. And there always is. I mean, like there's always a huge amount of movement, you know, like, especially in that 15 to 30 range. I mean, we'll probably see like half of those picks traded. There's always like, I mean, I think the stat is like eight to 10 picks move hands like the week of the draft, you know, like including the night of the draft.

And so, yeah, there's going to be a ton of movement. And, you know, the draft is like it's the best conduit for making moves and for preparing yourself for free agency and attaching, you know, picks with contracts to get off stuff and and clean your books and all that. So, yeah, it's, I mean, it's much bigger than the draft. I think it's probably less about, like, pure excitement about the players in this range, you know, especially, like, in that 15 to 25 range and more about, like, we've got to do something, you know, like, and this is a great opportunity that the whole league is open

for business. And let's just go make some shit happen right now. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk more about this, this sort of intriguing morass in the middle of the first round. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running.

Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Brooklyn is one of my most interesting off-season teams because they obviously fell again in the lottery. They drafted a bunch of guards last year. They have this Michael Porter Jr. expiring contract that I think would be a pretty valuable trade chip. They also just have to decide in this new lottery world, do we like they don't control their pick next year, which gives them like a bizarre incentive to actually,

in some cases, be in the relegation zone, like be so bad that you're one of the three worst teams in the league because then you can't have your pick be number one and have it. Like their incentives are all over. over the place because there's also the incentive of like the Knicks just won the championship and we're like our afterthought status has been underlined like and highlighted more than it will ever be. We have to get some juice in the arena. So I don't know what they're going to do with this pick. And I don't even know like what have you heard about just their general like is this

trade down stuff for a wing reel? Like what do you think is going to happen there? And I think they need to show improvement this year. Like I think that they need to start winning games and make some strides, you know, like, because next year's draft is shitty. And like you said, they don't control their pick. And so there's no like pot of gold at the end of the rainbow anymore, you know, like you've got to get going here. And it's unfortunate that like these last few drafts that they've slipped and they don't get the pick from the primo talent. And that really, and that makes me think that they're not going to trade down even further, you know, like you're at six. There's these, you know, four to five.

guys who are going to be there, you got to go and pick the best one. You know, like, and regardless of position, I don't think that Ben Saroff, you know, like is, you know, or no one's trore. Like, these guys can't be factors in your decision-making process. Like, they're- I'll go a step further. Like, I think Darius Garland is good enough to be a factor in your thinking if you're the clippers, but I don't think it should be anything close to like a determining factor. Darryorne Scarlin was a nice, by-low, emergency play,

when it was clear that Hardin wanted out and was not going to be part of the long-term future of the franchise. That was a nice pivot for them. He's a very good player. He's made an All-Star team. He's had a ton of health issues. He really just barely played for the Clippers and played pretty well. But, like, he is not, if I'm the Clippers and I love A-Cuff or I love one of these smaller guards, Mikhail Brown, who I didn't love on film, by the way.

and not the bigger guards like Wagler is a little taller. Wogler rather is a little taller. Burry's plays a little bulk. Like if I love who I love like Darius Garland is not stopping me from taking that guy and I'm just going to figure out the rest later. He has two years left on his contract. I think he's on a five year deal with them. But I'm sorry.

Continue about Brooklyn. Yeah. No. So I mean, I'm with you. The same same concept, you know, applies to the clippers that applies to the nets. You know,

like you need to go and get the best guy here. And so and trading down like punting on this is not really a solution. So if you got to figure out who's going to be the best player three years from, the problem is that like none of these guys are really going to help you win next year. Like Darius Akoff, Duffie Nathe, you know, Kingston Fleming's, Keaton Wiglinz, Nath. Well, I like Kingston Fleming's. He's clever.

He's pretty small, but he's, he's clever. And he competes on defense. I don't know what he's going to be in the NBA. All good prospects, you know, but, you know, history tells you that like point guards who are 19 years oh, don't help you win, you know, like, and so that, that's kind of puts them in a tough spot because, you know, where you need to get better, but it's not, it's probably not going to happen for you from these, from this crop of guys from five to ten. But then you're hoping that they show enough excitement as the year moves on to buy you more

time to continue to build and, you know, use your cap room and use New York City and use the Michael reporter, you know, trade ship. And it's not, it's not an easy situation therein. I'll tell you that. Give me one guy who's rising and one guy who's falling as we approach draft day. Yeah, I think that it's probably less about like the workouts, the measurements, the combine, all that, and more about like what we just saw in the playoffs, you know. And so I think with that in mind, I think the bigs.

you know, like the playoffs help the bigs. I mean, it's been a couple of years now where we're seeing like big men really matter, rebounding matters, rim protection matters. You can play two bigs together. You need that physicality in the front court. And so like a guy like Mores Johnson, for example, you know, like he's, the fact that he showed that he can play both spots, he can play the four, can pay the five, you know,

he's shot it, you know, decently in workouts. He's 20 years old. great interviews, you know, 7-3 wingspan. That, you know, that level of physicality, you know, that's impressive, you know, like in Hanna Steinbach, the same thing, you know, like really good measurements, you know,

he's over 611 in-inch, he's over 6-11 inch two wingspan, has shown the ability to space the floor, can pass it some, great offensive rebounder, strong, physical, tough, you know, like that translates to today's be a, is he going to be a star? No. Could he be a real useful piece for, you know, any team in that

eight to 14 range? Yes. So, you know, if, if anybody kind of slides up, I think it's going to be one of those guys. Do we see like in a daimara, you know, like does he climb up the board on draft night and end up at six, seven, you know, like that range? I mean, like, wow. I've heard that's, I've heard like eight, nine, like that range is not like outreaching. unrightly. Like, it's unlikely, but you're not the first person to throw numbers like that about a daimara. I mean, he's so intriguing, you know, 9-9 standing reach, you know, the passing ability, the rim protection.

He's so skilled, the crafty, and he's got great footwork. He's got great hands. You know, the question is, you know, is he going to be able to shoot eventually? I mean, he shot 59% from the free throw line in college, which is probably not going to happen anytime soon. but we saw that, you know, earlier on in his career. And so if he can do all that stuff at 7-4, you know, he's only 20, he's been in college for three years, but he's only 21 years old.

There's still some upside there to tap into. I mean, that's, those are the guys that I got my eye on on draft night, you know, like those bigs to see, like, do any of them climb into the lottery? Where does Yaxo-Lendaborg end up, you know? like there's kind of like this sense out there that like you know turning 24 in september he's just too old he is what he is you know the analytics they they don't like the older guys there's been a ton of guys over the years he pe udoes and wesley johnson's who you know like got drafted really high at a you know at 23 and ended up busting and so but yaxel lenderborg you know he's 610 he can

handle he can pass he He can shoot. He's built for the modern game. He played small forward for a national championship team. You can slide him to the four. He's big enough to play the five. You know, like he was super efficient. He can do a lot of different things.

So I'm just really interested to see where does Yaxel end up. You know, some people say like the interviews, the background, people kind of wonder, you know, like, how serious is he? I've heard the maturity. I've heard the maturity concerns. I'm going to be like for him. And so that's going to be a way interesting for one for me. Honestly, again, I know nothing compared to you and everyone else. I watched some Landaboard tape and was like, he's not going to be a bust.

Like, I don't know exactly what he's going to be, but he's not going to be a bust. I liked all three of the Michigan guys quite a bit. Give me, give me one faller before we take another quick break. Probably Jane and Quintons, you know, like it's just, you know, there was, he started the year top 10 on pretty much everybody's board. He was, you know, the youngest player in college basketball as a freshman at Arizona State. He had an awesome year just blocking everything and, you know, as a 17-year-old. And, you know, he barely played this year.

He played four games. He didn't look right. There's some concerns there about the medicals. You know, he's still only 18 years old. It feels like a Robert Williams type situation where he might end up sliding into the mid-20s. but somebody's going to pounce on him, one of these really good teams, and I think they're going to end up being really, really happy with him. Because, like, you know, you can't teach 6-10, 7-5 wingspan, you know, that versatility defensively.

There's a lot to work with there. You know, like you think about like the Spurs at 20. Like it's a pretty interesting guy to pair with someone like Victor. And so I'm really interested to see where does Jaden Quentin end up on draft night. It's funny how some of those like fallers, that fall and then a team pounces on them, especially if it's a smart team. It's like, oh, my God, what a great shot in the dark.

You know, this guy fell to them. And like the good number one guy coming to my mind is how excited everyone was for Cam Whitmore on the Rockets. And like, sometimes they fall and it's like, oh, that's why they fell. The guy I've heard is, and we don't need to belabor this, is co-op Pete just because of concerns over his jump shot. But let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk really quickly some more offseason stuff.

This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price? Moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg.

This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit Loreal.com to learn more.

All right, let's wrap up by just, I wanted to go through like interesting offseason teams that are not in the honest vortex and not in like the top five of the draft vortex with one exception that I'll get to in Memphis. Just because I think they deserve mention. I mentioned Atlanta

at number eight. I think that's a pretty interesting. I think they're a very interesting team for a lot of reasons. They could open up cap space. They have C.J. McCollum's free agency that could vaporize some of that cap space. They have Jonathan Comingo's team option.

that they could do a number of different things with, including trade them if they wanted to. And they have this number eight pick, and it's from New Orleans. And it didn't end up as sexy a pick as they hoped it would be because New Orleans had a nice finish to the season. I just, this is based on almost no intel at all. I wonder if that pick is going to be available in some form for a veteran.

And I keep coming back to, I'm shocked at how much I hear Trey Murphy's name in the rumor mill. I think that's partly like I don't think he would be adverse to a trade out of New Orleans. If I'm New Orleans, I'm like, it's actually a good player. I'd like to have a good player and a good contract on my team. He'd be a great fit in pretty much anywhere. And I look at a team like the Warriors. I don't think 11 is going to get it done for Trey Murphy.

And they have difficulty matching salaries and doing all sorts of other things. And they like Moses Moody's hurt and Jimmy Butler's hurt. I wonder if eight could start the process. of a Trey Murphy deal to Atlanta. I think Chicago also deserves a little mention in the Trey because of Bryson Graham in whatever happens with Trey Murphy. But I think Atlanta's sneaky interesting.

Anything you want to say on them? On Atlanta? Yeah, I mean, there's all these guards there and they played without a traditional point guard since trading Trey Young. So do they continue along those lines and just have this like supersized, you know, big time defensive lineup, or do they go with, you know,

does having all those guys give you the ability to go draft a Darius Aikoff or a McHale Brown? That's a great point. Or a Wogler or somebody like that because you can insulate them a lot better than on most NBA teams. And even if you're bringing that guy off the bench, that's okay. I mean, he comes in and he's, you know, he's a spark plug as a rookie. And it just eases the transition so much for a rookie like that to have those kind of

defenders and veterans are around you? Detroit, speaking of Trey Murphy. I think they're going to do something interesting this summer. I don't know if it's going to be at the draft. I don't know if it's going to be a free agency. I don't know if it's going to be a trade. They can also open up a decent amount of cap space.

They've been mentioned as like a potential Austin Reeves landing spot. They'd have to do a lot of work to open up Austin Reeves level cap space. It's not impossible. I just think, You know, they had a rough first round series they win, a seven game second round series they lose. It laid bare what they're missing, which is outside shooting around and secondary creation around their sort of centerpiece players. And I think they look at the East as like, okay, like we learned what we're missing. We're going to do something.

Something interesting that they didn't do at the trade deadline where they just sort of did the fringy Kevin Herder thing. I think there's a lot of interest around the league in Isaiah Stewart, who has a handy salary for trade. purposes based on just putting dots together. Tobias Harris is a free agent. He's a veteran leader on their team. I'm sure there's mutual interest in a deal being done there, but we'll see what other alternatives to Pistons have. I just think the Pistons are going to do something by their standards,

a little splashy. That's all. I don't even know where they're, they even have a pick in the, I don't think they have a pick in this draft. Twenty, one. From that swap, that's right. That swap with Minnesota, they go up to 21.

So that's like not an uninteresting spot for them to be in. I just think, I think something. to get in on the Tyler Hero sweepstakes, if they want to make a big offer for Trey Murphy, you know, like what does Dallas do with Kyrie? You know, marketing,

obviously that's going to take a lot to get him, but like, they need shooting. And there's, and this is the perfect moment for them to, to go all in with their pieces. And, you know,

like they don't probably need Assarre Thompson and Ron Holland. Like, how well did those guys, Isaiah Stewart, they don't all compliment Kate Cunningham. Kate Cunningham needs a little bit more space to breathe. We saw, you know, in the playoffs. And so any of those guys who could really,

really shoot and take some pressure off of Cade would make a lot of sense. Now, people aren't just going to give them away. But like, they have the ability to go make a move here because their books are pretty clean and they have their picks moving forward. So, you know, why not go make an aggressive move if you're the Detroit Pistons? The time is now. The East is wide open. Other teams that are interesting. Toronto. Philly? Well, no, I'm just going to, Philly is somewhat interesting. Well, make the case for Philly being on this list.

Well, you know, brand new president and Mike Gansy, it's a clean slate for him. He could take this a lot of different directions, you know, like if he wants to go to the ownership and say, let's blow this thing up, you know, like, let's start over. Like, get rid of Joe M. B. Let's do whatever we can to get off of Paul George. Let's start over. Let's build around VJ. Edgecom, you know, and Tyrese, I mean, that you could make a case. that that might be the move. And if there's any time to do that,

it's at the very beginning of this new transition into a brand new front office. Now, I mean, what are they going to get back? I mean, getting off Paul George, like, good luck with that. But it's good. I mean, it's a thought to explore if they want to blow this thing up. I mean, and if there's a team, you know, even like a Detroit or someone like that,

is like, we need another guy, you know, like to put next decade. Those are two guys that, you know, like are proven players in the NBA. Yeah. Kauai, interesting fit in Detroit. No clue what's going to happen with him. Obviously, we're all waiting for Wachtell, Lippon, Rosen, and Katz, by the way, the law firm, congratulations. Just world record billable hours on this aspiration.

You want to interview me? I'll come in for a couple hours. I don't know anything. But like, if you just need to get your billables up, I'll put on a suit, I'll walk into your office. I'll get someone to film it. We'll have a great time. I'll just, I'll plead the fifth. I've never pleaded the fifth before for any reason.

I'd love to go in and plead the fifth. It would be a lot of fun. Toronto 19 number 19 pick I just mentioned them because they are they're good

and there was some proof of concept in them being a good team Scotty Barnes had an amazing playoffs I don't know that they're any any better than good and they just have a lot of contracts and they have all their picks and swaps under control

I don't expect anything dramatic from them but I'm just interested to see sort of you know also OJ OJ and Obey became a hero for another team, and there's that whole other storyline. But I'm just interested to see what they do.

Indiana, like, everyone forgot about the Pacers. Then they traded for Zubots. Halliburton presumably will be healthy coming off this shingles thing and everything else. They're like, they ran rough shot over the Eastern Conference, like yesterday, basically. So they're interesting in that regard. And they're also interesting.

I'm going to read you all the players who are extension eligible for the Pacers. Pascal Seacom, Tyrese Hallibut, Abit to Zubodh, Andrew Nemhart, Oby Topin, Jaris Walker, Ben Shepard, and Johnny Furphy are all eligible for extensions. That's just a crazy amount of guys, including two Max guys in Halliburton and Seacom that are eligible for extensions.

They have multiple years left on their deal. Halliburton has three. Seacom has two. Just a lot of interesting pivot points for the Pacers. I have no idea what they're going to do. Obviously, they are heartbroken, having lost their pick in just who could have possibly seen it coming. Jonathan, we talked about this, the luck of the draw. And who else do I have on my list?

Oh, they're in the top five, so they kind of like violate my rule of I don't want it to. I just think I'm very excited to watch Memphis next year because they're going to, they move up in the lottery and they're gifted this third pick. Everyone thinks they want booze or whatever. Whoever they get is going to be very good. Because they're really, they're two keeper keepers and they have this Moran situation and they need to resolve. are coward who's just really good and can play with pretty much anybody like a wing who can shoot three and handle the ball like just anybody and edie for 11 games last year was like fucking Godzilla and then just didn't play at all because of these ankle injuries he'll come back presumably tie jerome was a monster for 15 games and then he didn't play at all with edie they get this number three pick i just i'm interested i just can't wait to watch them play i think

they're going to be fun i did did you do you do is a little bit you do is Is the boozer noise accurate to you? Oh, him and Zach Ead together. That's like straight out of the 80s. Like they're just going to grind people to a pulp inside. It would be like post up after post up after post up. They're going to be in the bonus 90 seconds into the game. And it's going to be awesome to watch.

And so, you know, what do they do with Jha? How does he fit into all of that? I'm not sure. But Memphis is always entertaining. And so it'll be interesting to see what they do. I mean, they're always very aggressive on draft night. So do they, you know, do they do, I mean, they've got the picks. And so they have 16 as well, right?

Like, what are they going to do with 16? Teams are, I think teams are calling in that range, like trying to get in. And they could also just be like, we'll take, you know, I mean, Bennett Sturts or somebody like that. Who the hell knows? Just draft co-op Pete and just go all in on, you know, post-up guys. You know, put him at the three and just smash people to death all game long. One more team.

I just, I, it's just, they're not that interesting, but they are. people have kind of stopped talking about Minnesota because they have faded out of the honest discourse and I never really figured out how they were going to get in on the honest discourse and who the hell knows if they're still secretly in it or not. I still think they watched those conference finals and said to themselves,

like we're pretty good. Those two teams are only going to get better. Ant is probably going to look around and be like, we need a little more juicier on the ball. DeVincenzo is going to miss the, at least most of the season, if not all of it next year. Randall had another bad playoffs. They don't have a ton of tools,

although they get another pick that they can trade it when the calendar flips over. We just know Tim Connolly is adventurous and not afraid to push a lot of chips in, not afraid to shake up his team. I just don't, like, I don't know how tradable their big salaries are. I don't know, like someone like Gobert

is pretty essential to how their team is built and plays. I don't know who really wants, handle to that degree. I just, I never, I always keep half an eye on Minnesota. I don't know if you've heard anything, but I always just keep half an eye. I don't know how they're going to pivot, but I expect something unexpected from Minnesota. Yeah, I mean, Tim Coney, like you said, like he's, he's a deal maker. And so, I mean, if there's, if there's a trade to be made out there, if there's an opportunity to get in on like a three team trade or something like that, he'll be right in the mix there. I mean, they've got their team. And I mean, Anthony Edwards is still only 24 years old.

there's probably another gear he can still get to, you know, like Jadine McDonors is 25. So it's not like they need to, you know, blow up the whole thing here. I mean, they had a pretty good year. They made the semis of Western Conference. So like they're, I don't see them, you know, drastically changing anything. And is there something along the margins? Like, could they pick them on their ball handler? I mean, that's probably what they're going to end up doing.

I want to conclude by calling out what I think is the. lamest and fake boldest take of in the media right now. The lamest and fakeest, fakedest, I don't know how to exactly say it. But I hate this take. I've seen a lot of people make it already. And they pound their fists like it's a really bold take. And the take is, well, the Knicks feel good story. They're not going to repeat next year.

Put it in the books. The Knicks aren't going to repeat. This is one and done. the league is going to figure them out. Like, great story. Hurrah for New York. Hurrah for Jalen Brunson. It is the lamest possible take

to make four days after an insane championship run where they went 16 and 3 in the playoffs. And the reason I say fake boldest is like, oh, we've had eight straight new champions. You think it's like a big statement to come out and be like, I don't think the Knicks are going to repeat. It's like the safest fake boldest take possible. It's the take you're most likely to be proven right.

with because you said it right in the aftermath. Oh, I told you they weren't going to repeat. Yeah, no kidding. It's very unlikely that they repeat. It's very unlikely that anyone repeats. I will also say, I think because of how unusual Brunson is as a number one star and how just unusual their season was in terms of like pretty good 53 win team, 16 and three juggernaut in the playoffs.

I think people are sleeping a little bit on this. 16 and 3 part. Like, that's not a small sample size. And I know they didn't have to play Boston. What's Boston going to look like next year? Do we know? Do we know for sure? Like, they were, did not play great in the postseason.

I know they didn't have to play Oklahoma City. Obviously, like, I would have picked Oklahoma City at full health to beat the Knicks in the finals. I think they would walk in as my favorites next year. We don't know how the office team is going to shake out for any of these teams, including the Spurs who beat Oklahoma City. Like Indiana, Zubots is an interesting new piece. We'll see.

Detroit. Again, we'll see what they do in the offseason. Cleveland, New York just threw them out of the playoffs. Like they were a freaking pile of garbage going into a dumpster on the side of the road. Philadelphia, Orlando, new coach, Miami. We don't know who's going to be on their team. Is it Janus? Is it not Janus? What's left over? Like, I just wouldn't sleep on the possibility that the Knicks are in the finals again next year. And if you're in the finals, you got a chance.

So I think that take is both just so obvious as to be like wildly fake bold. and also I think kind of underestimating the Knicks. I've heard it a lot. I've seen it a lot. I think it's just almost like a waste of airspace. Done. End of podcast. Any thoughts?

I would love to see the Knicks back in the finals. I live in New York. I'm in Harlem. We had a watch party in front of my house. Every game. My kids are coming home from school, talking about basketball, asking about, asking questions. Have you ever met this guy? You ever met that guy?

My kids never showed the slightest bit of interest in what I do for a living. until the Knicks made the finals and all their friends at school started talking about basketball and all that. So, like, that was fun. Let's do that again. I'll tell you. I'll say this. Again, I grew up hating the Knicks. I am not a Knicks fan. I don't, now I have no emotions toward any team. I'm Spock as Bill calls me. I do love New York City. I've lived there for almost, I did live there for almost 20 years. It's my favorite place in the world. I've already done this. I don't want to belabor it. I mentioned when I said that a few days ago, that empire state of mind was my wife and my wedding song when we got married. And I'm like I got a little I'm a pretty like controlled guy.

But when Alicia Keys performed and Jose Alvarado and Kat are like bopping and bouncing to Empire state of mind and she's like in the Knicks. I got I got a little emotional yesterday. And like there's two million people there like you can see all the way down the streets and it's just endless seas of people. I was watching it on TV. There was no way in hell I was actually going to go and like camp overnight or try to get a media pass to this thing. But I got a little emotional, Jonathan. I'm not a, I'm not, when she got up there and started a belt and out, let me put a hand up for the big city.

I was a little emotional. Okay. So maybe that's why I don't like this take. So I'm a little emotional about New York City right now. It was a fun run and I would love to do it again. Jonathan Gavoni, draft express, follow him on X, follow him on Instagram. Where else can they follow you? TikTok, I guess.

TikTok, all right. I don't know what's going on at TikTok. I have never logged in once to TikTok, but allegedly we are on TikTok and we have like 250,000 followers. So we have the same relationship with TikTok. I have a TikTok count. No idea what's going on.

No clue. I don't want to know. You know somebody to do your TikTok for you. You're missing out. I don't know what's happening on TikTok. You're the best. Nobody knows the draft better than you. Stay tuned to everything he tweets, says, does in the next four days.

Gavoni, thanks for some of your time. I'll see you down the road, buddy. Thanks, that's that. Great to be with you. All right. That's it. everybody enjoy the weekend. It could be a newsy weekend. Thank you to Jonathan Gavoni of Draft Express. He's incomparable. Thank you as usual to Jonathan, Mike and Billy on production. And thanks,

as always to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Loshal. We'll be back next week, kind of TBD, depending a little bit on news and my crazy travel event schedule that I have coming up. But stick with us. If anything happens, we will be here. The draft is on Tuesday. So something is going to happen while Croatia is playing Panama and I'm in the stands in Toronto. God help us all. Thank you all for listening. See you soon. 21 or over and President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or 1-800-Mai Reset. Call 1-888-789-77777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or is

it MD gamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling helpline and MA.org or call 800 327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-7-770-867. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if?

Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what-if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.