The Zach Nichols Podcast - ZNP Special Traitors Review EP. 10-11 & Reunion

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

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Welcome back. Perverts. You guys only knew. Welcome back to the Zach Nichols podcast. I'm here with my co-host. An old lady made you grab her hooters. Made me or invited me? Mr. Zach Nichols.

Hey, what's up? I heard things got a little heated in the office last week. You heard about that? I did. I heard it from back home. Whatever. The big discipline I heard. I heard you got a little temper tantrum in here.

I did. I had a temper tantrum. You're pushing your narrative of me being the mean boss. It's all true. It's all true. I got a couple on the flies from employees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the HR department, so I had to handle all that. Paperwork all weekend, bro. Yeah, no, I was just a little bit, I was just a little bit upset about some of the efficiency stuff.

But, no, you let me hear it. You let me hear it a little bit. Oh, I didn't, did I? no now we're going to make shit up i'm going to make shit up too we're still got to have that that hr me i was like i don't remember it but we could have that could have happened yeah for sure well we have the peyote we are we are interjecting our normal work week to bring you the traders review that you guys have all been asking us for i mean they've been asking they have yeah it's awesome where's the traders at well it's right here and we made sure to make uh time for it i'm sad yeah i'm sad

it's over it was i have a fever it was it was i have a fever it It was a... And the only cure baby is more traitors. Traders. What a magnificent TV show. And I can't wait to be on season three. So I'm still waiting on my call, but... Listen, hashtag, Zach on Traders.

I need you to start it right now. Zach on Traders. Listen. Listen. If they hook you up with some of those fits, I'm in. Oh, yeah. There's got to be a budget. There has got to be a budget.

Listen, I've been mostly sober this year. So Traders was kind of... I like my fix. I don't know what I'm going to do. Yeah. It was that dopamine. So I'm going to get right into it. Mostly sober. Yeah.

The first question. How do you feel about your show? The challenge being considered the biggest threat by Dan, killing one on the very first night. And then the remaining two competitors make it all the way to win this show. Well, like they always say, going home on the first day, the only thing that sucks worse than that is going home on the last day with no money. Sorry, MJ.

Well, yeah, we'll see later. But that being said, you're either, when you go home first, you're either just garbage and excess fat and trash. Yep. Trimming the fat. Or you're the biggest threat in the house to somebody. And I think we know that Johnny was the biggest threat. Even John said he was way too resourceful, way too quick-witted.

So that's actually a, that's kind of almost like an award in itself. I think people should, from the challenge, should be proud of that. But more importantly, those two masterfully winning. And even. At the end, they kept us guessing the whole time, but Trichelle even was like, hey, I'm going to check you. She didn't just trust him to the end. She had to check him at the end to see how he reacted to her tying it up. Because I think she has been spot on on people's reactions all season. And what I love and what really like made me happy was I'm thinking I'm going to take a lot of shit for like some of the things I said about Trichel.

I said she was frantic. I said she was crazy. But what did Trichelle say about herself in the reunion? I was frantic. I was crazy, but I deserved to win. And that's exactly how everyone should feel about this season. She played an amazing game. She was frantic.

She brought the crazy Trichelle that everyone from the challenge knows and loves, minus, you know, some of the weird stuff that happened with Nisa. And here we are with the champion. And you know what? When you win, they should give her some safety goggles for that dress she was wearing. that thing looked dangerous it was dangerous she was looking dangerous and she was dangerous

all freaking season one thing so so dangerous one thing that didn't it really took me going back and watching and making the notes to understand was not only was she amazing socially she never gave anyone any doubt that she was anything but a faithful

she picked up on everybody's reactions and in the challenges specifically the Fear Factor style one and this last one that I called the lily pad one she was dominating in these in these challenges too. Oh yeah. And here's what people need to realize.

Is Treschelle a good challenger? Yes. At this point in her life, would she be considered a great challenger? No. And she dominated that challenge. So I think all the other reality TV shows need to have their eye on that.

And these are two 40 plus year old people who look great and are still dominating these challenges where no one else could do it. So I think this, more than anything, put the challenge on the map. And I think they're pioneers and they're opening the door for some of the best reality television stars ever, in my opinion,

to be on Traders or any other reality show for that matter, because we are the best. Absolutely. And there have been times where, you know, we've seen you or we've seen even a Laura or a Jordan or anyone that wants to get critical of some of the things that production has done, you know, throughout the years, you can't go perfect. But back in your heyday, back in their heyday, they created, they had a platform for stars to be stars and they created them into them by making them go through these rigorous challenges. So they walk into a game like this and it's child's play.

Well, and here's the thing you also got to think. So what? I'm Big Brother. There's been, what, two or three All-Star seasons? Mm-hmm. Okay, Survivor in their, I think they're in 40, 50-some seasons. Maybe not, I don't know for sure. A couple of all-star seasons.

So you've seen their best players play two or three times. That means almost every season of the challenge is an all-star season compared to these other reality television shows. So when these people go back and play All-Stars, that's like one and once in a blue moon. For the most part, it's always newbies coming back. Whereas, like, the challenge, every season in another reality television show world is an all-star season. So you're going to take the greatest two plus one of the great girls from the past who has become a poker player in her retirement.

And you're going to put them in this reality television show against people who don't even play games and not expect them to dominate. Come on. It's so true. It's so true. And it's funny. It makes me think of, like, 39 where, like, you know, like, people will complain about about the not star part.

but like that's a regular season on all these other shows. That's a regular reality television show. That's why the challenge is so great. Yeah, that's why they dominated and. Absolute child's play. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

if you noticed, people said Cherchotte at the reunion. They're like, Trichelle played the best game. She did play a great game. But you also got to remember. CT's name never got brought up and when it did, those people were gone.

But what's really interesting about CET is he wasn't part of the Peter Pals, right? Yeah. But Trichel was, and he made sure Trichel gave him safety. He wasn't really part of like the game. But he was good with a couple of them, but he wasn't like, he never let himself become part of a group. 100%. He was unofficially part of Bravo. Un officially. Right, because of Fadra. He had a foot. He had a foot in every corner. He had a hand in every room. But he was never someone who was throwing the first arrow. And he was never anybody who was being, you know, a flamboyant faithful. Yes. So he kind of towed the traitor line. But besides not being honest about his move to vote out Sandra at the end, he never picked.

which is why he never really had anyone come after him unless they wanted to be like, oh, he's a dominant male. It's got to be him. That's the only heat he took. Other than that, C.T. And the Peter one, too. That he, he little footballed on the Peter one, a little bit. I think Peter had already put himself out there so much that C.T knew it was safe.

Sure. Yeah, no, that's, he did, that's absolutely right. It was safe for him to vote for Peter. He, C.T, when he twinkletoed at the end, he was basically telling everyone, I just twinkletoed my way through this damn season. Mm-hmm. And he did the, you know. Yeah.

When I look back on some of the times where, for example, there was the mission where half the people had to go inside, half the people had to go outside. And he said, hey, I don't need a shield right now. I'll help everybody out. So like the time later in the season, wherever they shot the arrow, and he went for his own thing, it made sense because it's like I waited my turn. CT's so good at, yeah, picking his shots. He's spot. He never is overzealous. He knows when to take him.

and he did this all season. It was very masterful. And here's the other thing we got to remember. CT has came into this game single. And the most dangerous CT, in my opinion, is a single CT. Because here's the only thing that's better than young CT is this refined ruggedness. He brings that Boston ruggedness, but now it's refined. I don't know how a woman who can't, I don't know how any woman could turn him down.

He could go 10 years up. He could go 30 years, not 20 years. He can go 20 years down. Let's be careful with the downs, but yeah, the refined ruggedness that he brings. I'm thinking he's 50. No, he's the man. He's the man. He's the absolute man.

And I only said that because I know there's season 40. He's part of an earlier era. But he is an absolute unit in every sense of the word. Do you think this makes him a better reality television star than bananas? Wow, that's a great question. I mean, you could argue this all day. I think this makes it a conversation because I think it's always been a conversation. In terms of for challenge, of course, but for full reality.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's how I'm looking at it. For this, I mean, you can't, you can't give either one the edge definitively. You can't. This is a monster, monster win for Chris Tamarrel. Yeah, because what Johnny did in House of Villains was pretty impressive too. It was. And one thing.

And conceding the win to Tanisha was also pretty heroic. That was a win. That counts. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for this, this show, this show is, it meant so much to him. And I saw that so much throughout the season. He said it towards the end.

Like, he was having so much fun. He said, I hadn't done a show in a while. And this experience was awesome. For him to show he could be versatile and, you know, be part of every crew in politic, the way that he's always done it. I think he's proved time and time again that he's versatile. I think that this was just, this just really proved how much, mental his game really is.

It's not just physical. He's very, he's a, he's a brilliant, brilliant man. Absolutely. Now, moving on. We'll move on. So we'll start from the game. Just clean up the snail trails. Yeah.

That was the intro. So we'll get back into the episodes. We come back. Roundtable, Peter, Peter is the final choice by MJ. He's got to go. Wolsey, John, so bloody obvious. So bloody obvious. This just proves to be more and more that this was a numbers game first and a trader's game,

Traders' Faithful game second. Because listen. Yep. At this point, Peter's big pivot was because he was just trying to stay safe on both sides. And if you don't know that, I mean, there's always a chance that someone could be a traitor, but people had to shoot a shot here, John and Chorchelle. And this is why CT's brilliant, because he let them shoot this shot.

He still voted for Fadra, but, you know, he wasn't the one that pulled the trigger. So that was a great move. But, I mean, I think they wanted so badly to get Fadre out so that they could control every vote from here on out. that Bravo crew just wouldn't allow it. Yeah. And there's, look, like, playing the boisterous way that Peter played, you know, similar to, you know, I think we compare it to Josh-style game, it has its downfalls, which is if you make one or two false moves towards the end,

then you're going to be at the top of the questionable people. Well, Anne, once you put a target on your back, your own, you can only stay safe for so long in this game. Until people say, hey, let's get this target out so that we can just, everyone can agree to get him out is basically the thing. Once you put a target on your back, That's kind of what. And that's what he did.

And I think, you know, if he comes back and does another competition reality show, I would be interested to see how good he does. Because I think he's looking back now and being like, you know, I had a lot. I got a lot of attention. I made a lot of moves, but I didn't win. And I think he wants to win. And I think he realizes now what CT did. And CT kind of just, it was like, hey, man.

Yeah. Shoot your shot. It's crazy how you read my mind. Walk the plank. Do you, did you enjoy watching Peter on TV? Peter on TV, and would you welcome the idea of him on a challenge? I mean, at this point, we got, you know, we got, we got weasels like Jay running around the challenge. Yeah, I would love to have a guy like Peter on the challenge.

Because I think the challenge will be great for someone like Peter because he is brash. He is outspoken. And if he's an athlete or if he's good at elimination rounds, he's good under pressure, you have to take him out still. So I think the challenge might suit his personality better. For sure. But he'd have to really come out and smack someone in, you know, in the mouth. because you don't come on the show from The Bachelor of The Bachelorette.

People will go at you to test you. For sure. Because that's where you're from. Now, if you come from Turkish Survivor, people might say, hey, brother, room with me, cousin. Room with me. Or sleep with me. Yeah, but Peter would be like, let's throw him to the wolf,

see how he does. If he comes back with some stripes, he's our guy. But if he's gone, we'll probably see you handing out roses in the near future. For sure, for sure. He did have the confidence to approach CT. he did have the combativeness to go at some of these people, Dan, Fager, whatever he had to do. So, like, it's a little bit different in the challenge house, which is why CT, T, T, T, T, T, T, T, T, T, they walked around this place like they owned it.

Yeah, they were doing handstand walks around all these people. They were running circles. They really were. So, and that's why, and Dan knew that's exactly what was going to happen had Johnny stayed more than 24 hours in that, you know what I'm saying? So, um, hello. Oh, so sorry. Did you hear that?

Yeah, it did. Are you making fun of the way I'm drinking? Oh, I just wanted to do that. Yeah, no, it's ASMR. It's a thing. I don't know what that means. I'll teach you. Okay. All right. So let me ask you this. We know at this point, you know, Fager's kind of reaching her tipping point in terms of her exhaustion and lying and stuff. Here's my question. Do you ever think, why do you think that Treselle never got any real traitorous suspicions? Because like, what was it about her game that she was never questioned as being anything other than a faithful? Well, she never pivoted. She never changed who she was going for. She was very clear, concise. She gave re- reason and then she followed it up. And if people didn't, she showed frustration so everyone knew, like, I'm just voting with the group to vote with the group. And I think there's some people that you can just, like, I'll be honest, there's some

people that I've done challenges with when you talk to them. You're like, I know they're not lying. And they're either a very good liar or they're just a good, they're just not lying. And I think Trishel was able to convince people that. And I think here's the thing. When you are a faithful and you don't have to lie, it comes off very honest. honest like you're not lying. And I think she just knew to stay good with everyone. I have to lay low, but, you know, be honest. And I think when she's being on, he's a poker player. When she's

being honest, she's being honest. She's being honest. She never had to try to bluff anyone. For sure. Okay. Let me ask you this. Oh, no, I'm sorry. In retrospect, there was a game of alliances. Like we talked about the numbers game, there's the Peter John, Kevin Bergey. They're all outcasts. They stuck together. CT in classic CT fashion, he finds a way to everybody. I think. After this roundtable, Trishel hugged CT. They're kind of, you know, giving us a glimpse of what's going to happen. CT correctly predicts John's demise.

And then Fajor and Kate Meat and the Traders layer. I just don't think that, like, yeah. I think they should have gone after someone else because I felt like going after John or Tresel was so obvious. Yeah. like at least it was going to be fadra Kate gets away with one here because no one suspects her at this point so kate it doesn't matter and this is a great move

but I think if fadra I think she had at this point kind of you're right like giving up a little bit she's exhausted and I think she just knew this is what's expected of me and also I think like she said at the reunion I had people that I liked and people that I didn't like and I just think she was okay with losing

whereas I think she'd gone for um shirie or mj or basically anyone close to her, it might have, people might have thought, Well, Trichelle or maybe someone else. But going for John was just blatantly obvious. For sure.

And she said it with the CT vote at the end, Girl Power, right? She's like, hey, I'd rather be a woman, whatever, which is cool. But that's the difference between someone. Larson said it too. Larson said, you know, us from Bravo, like,

we're just trying to have a good time and be on TV, whereas the gamers are always gaming, you know, so a gamer wouldn't do that. Like, a gamer would, would do what Dan did. Yeah. What Janelle did. Always going for the shield.

Someone who's not used to this cutthroat competition, especially after not seeing it, is going to concede easier. You know what I'm saying? Once you see yourself concede and you see someone else win and you get to almost get a taste of it from their perspective, you're going to go back and you're going to be a lot more savage.

Like look at Surrey Fields. She did a lot of reality shows. And by her last one, the last trader show, she was just done with losing. And she's like, I will lie to anything. Anyone and everyone I have to. Yeah, my game is refined. Yeah, for sure.

The only logical person in this, for me, that could possibly throw off the house would have been Sandra. It wouldn't have made sense from any way. So to me, she was the- Oh, Sandra, too. Yeah, Sandra or Sheree were my two. Yes. I think, obviously, yeah. Or MJ.

Or MJ. Those three, because they're all Bravo people, and that would have had people. Because Fager hadn't taken out a friend all season. Or besides Tamara. Right. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

Her last friend. See it. Yeah, well, that. Okay, so during the breakfast interviews, Fager says she was thrown off by C.T. voting her as a traitor. And that all is fair and love and war, L.O.L. She knows how to create a storyline. It was funny. So you think that's a storyline? Love and war, baby. That's her castle daddy. Yeah. CT asked Kate You know about Fadra This is where Kate's game starts to unravel

She's going So this is where it's funny It's like Kate's going too hard now Protecting Fadra And it's show Now this is literally showing her hand At this point she's sitting pretty

But I don't think Kate likes to lie Yeah I think some of these people from Bravo Are so used to just being blatantly honest Because they're just like Fill my life And I'm going to tell you how I feel because I don't care, that they don't like to lie.

And so they get in these lying positions with their friends, and they just feel like shit where it's someone like, Tresel had to double check CT because she's like, this motherfucker's my friend, but he still could lie to me. Yeah, dude. Where Kate is like, oh, Fadra, you're digging your own grave here. Let me hop in there. Is there room for me?

Yeah, and then she bailes last second. And I'm like, Kate played every card wrong. And to the fact where she almost conceded to where she was just like, oh, we're all safe. Like, you know, she gave up to. Yeah, give them what they want. Let them have some trade. Right. Like, don't fight it.

Yeah. Don't fight it. Yeah. You are fine. You were fine. You were fine. And then you stuck up for her too hard. And then went after her too hard, you know? Yeah. You just, you got to understand like a pet wants to eat. If a pet doesn't have food, they're going to starve. So don't direct them to somebody that's not a traitor. They're going to be even more pissed. Right. You know, it's just ridiculous. Well, I also don't think, again, this is their first, this is her second time doing it, but she was never a traitor. And I do, I will say, I think being a traitor has got to be incredibly difficult. Yeah, I definitely Now, especially now. Yeah. Okay, so we'll go ahead and move on.

We go to the Daily Mission. What did you think about this? I know what you're going to say. To me, all I could think of was the lily pads at Sok City back in the day. He just happened off and off the lily pad to lily pad. For sure. I love this. I love this challenge because I like seeing people have to,

I like seeing things that not everyone can do because it proves how good certain people are compared to others in competition. And I just think what happened in this. challenge was what we all expected to happen. Yeah. They are who we thought they were. Hold up. You're telling me you give me a bunch of moms and they're going to have a hard time

doing an athletic challenge that they don't train for? Not moms. I'm not just talking about moms. Anybody. John probably couldn't do it. Of course. We're saying like a 50 year old dads? 40 year old dads?

I'm saying if you've been on the challenge, this was an easy mission. If you haven't, this is a hard one. We are, it's iron forges iron. You know, there are a different breed. Challenges are a different breed of competitor. they see this and they might fall once or twice but first of all they're going to figure it out and here's the other thing

we all know going into it whoever tested this has to be as good or a worse athlete than the best challenger right so whoever tested it was probably couldn't have been better than CT at it or if he was CT is still capable you know it just this was this showed

that challengers are we reign supreme in competition shows it doesn't get any clear now they like again chichel's not the most dominant female challenger, especially right now. There's been challenges on All-Stars that she couldn't complete, but she made this one look really easy. Yeah, it was a cakewalk for her.

You know, couldn't even, couldn't get there at all. Yeah. MJ would give her credit. MJ ended up getting there, yeah. Yeah, give her a lot of credit. Round of applause for MJ, that was awesome. And yeah, no, I mean, they made it look like a cakewalk. And they were like, oh, it's because Chichelle has long legs.

You think? Yeah, that might be, that might help her, but she also has a single, little athletic bone in her body. You guys don't. No, and it's a perfect example. Perfect example. So, Fager took a tumble. MJ took a tumble.

Sandra took a tumble. Sharray took a tumble. Kate gets on a roll, takes a tumble. Kate actually did pretty good, though. Yeah, she got a roll. Yeah, and she kills it. So CT falls twice, but gets it done. Right.

Yeah. You know how tired he probably was after that? Yeah, it was exhausted. So good job by CT. It obviously was harder for the heavier people. Watching people. falls hysterical. You gotta love it. It's the best. It's so funny. Yeah, it's

great. When they're trying, it's like they were all giving it a go too. Um, I think I think Fager only went one time. Like, you got your footage? Like, am I fucking done with this? The best part she wanted everyone to be silent. Like, don't cheer for me. All right. So yeah, props

to MJ. Uh, she gets that done. That was fun. Okay. Um, now we talked about it with Treschelle, but I want to ask again because like, I'm studying the game because one day you never know, I'd like to play this and I'm sure you would too, but like MJ, same thing, like never questioned once.

Like, is it her authenticity? Is it just like you just know that they're being real? Like what? I just guess, like, for me, I think MJ was like a piece of driftwood that her group was like, it's a vote. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And she wasn't ever, she's not a dangerous player. You know, she never... She picked up on a couple things. She's picked up on a couple things. You know, but whenever she took a stand, she was wrong every time. Well, 100. But that's also because that whole group was eating out of Fager's hand.

And she, in turn, protected them all. So I think MJ was protected. And I also think they kept, like, it was a numbers game. So they were keeping her around as a vote. And the Bravo women had, you know, they had numbers a lot of the time. So, I mean, do I think she stuck around because of her gameplay? No. I think it was more so.

Last circumstance. Yeah. Yeah, she's a victim of circumstance. And we'll jump around a little bit. One of the things I was going to talk about, actually, we'll get to it later when we get to the final fire. Okay, so when Sandra comes in, do you think she should have had more of a display at the roundtable? Let's move to the roundtable. Should she have, like, made more of a scene of people, like, questioning her, or was she defensive?

Like, what did you think about the way that Sandra handled this whole situation? I just think Sandra didn't expect it to have her turn on her. So I think she was playing, she wasn't, she didn't have her, she had no. No defense. She wasn't ready to defend herself because I don't think she expected that to happen. She was caught off guard. And I think she, I think also there's the thought of if I react too heavily to this, people are going to think it's unauthentic.

So sometimes acting like it's not that big of a deal might come off as, you know, a better move. Yeah. And I think that was her mindset there. But I don't think it really mattered because I think that ultimately C.T had a plan to get rid of her regardless. Yeah. I think C.T knew at the end of the day, he said,

the only person I owe anything to is a person I have 20 plus years of experience with. I don't know. I can hear him saying, I don't know any of them anything. Let's get rid of them all. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think MJ was part of getting rid of Sandra in order to have more money at the end. And then CET pulled the we'll see you on her too. And that's why I think she's so better.

100%. He didn't need her. No. I think this was, I think the great, and we'll just say it because we're here. I think the great part about this was as challenges, we always say don't ask. for forgiveness, ask for permission. They laid the rules out saying, if you don't think the game is over,

throw your, you know, throw the red bag in there. And they don't have to specify whether, I don't think the game is over because I might think you are still a trader. But what they're really saying is, 208 grand split two ways is much more lucrative for me

than it split three ways. We don't need you anymore. See you later. And it's also too solidifying the fact that We don't know either way. There's always a chance. So let's just make sure there's less of a chance of that to happen. Get out of here.

We'll take more money. The only thing that could have made this ending better would be if Trichelle or CT was actually a trader and pulled the wool over the other person's eyes. But that would be almost too masterful because CT and Trichel were like the best bloodhounds all season. Right. So. Well, yeah. They literally, the challengers took the rules and were like, wait a second. We could play by what it says when you think there's no traders left.

that's when it ends, or we could take more money and use these rules to our advantage. And that's exactly what they did. And MJ is just bitter that she got caught on the wrong end of that. It was a numbers game. That was the numbers game that we were suspecting all along. Like, there's no other way to explain that. CET knows what he was doing. And Michelle was like, good idea.

But Shishel wanted to make sure, hey, you're not going to play me because I'll tie this shit up. And that's why she saw his reaction. I think she said, once I saw his reaction, I knew. And that was pretty awesome. DJ's proud. She wasn't, TJ is, like, nodding in the background. Since you brought it up, were you not, were you not, do you not think she was worried at all about MJ? You know, she wasn't worried about CT at all voting for her or MJ, right?

Or like, like, she knew she had CT. Yeah. Yeah. She knew it. Okay. We'll go back to this. So, Kate, she says that Fadra is more selfish than skillful. Do you agree with that?

No. I think Fager protected almost all of her friends, and she refused to go against Kate at the end there, and she still didn't kill her friends when it would have been a better move for her. So I don't think she's selfish. I think Kate had to scramble there to overcompensate for her protecting her earlier. Yeah. And make it seem like her mind was so changed.

My notes say being a traitor is so much more complicated than anyone. Everyone thinks. As I watch us, I'm studying who doesn't get suspicion and why. Like John, Bergey, MJ, Trichelle, like, they were never considered. Like, if you ever go on and if I ever go on, I'm going to look at these things and say, like, this is what it takes for it to have zero suspicion. You have to be engaged in finding faithfuls, or at least convince. So very, very, very interesting point. CT is giddy when they get, they get Fager out.

Oh, real quick. So I do want to talk about that nice moment where he said, you know, C.T. says to her as he's voting for her. Everyone, basically, everyone honors Fadre as they're kicking her out. Like, you're the greatest person. We love you. This and that. Oh, yeah, by the way, you're a Fadra. You're a traitor. You're a traitor. She has a Fadra as well. She's a fantastic Fadra, too. And he goes to her, I think you came on here to be the opposite of what you are in real life. Basically saying you're a real one, and this is a lot of fun.

would you ever would you ever see you know do you have you ever seen a situation like that where like people are literally like kissing your ass as they're kicking you out yeah anytime Mark Long goes into an elimination round pretty much any single time Mark

has voted for anything that's exactly what I wanted to hear it's like I love you bro we'll do yeah or Leroy too I guess going in but yeah definitely there's those people who are just so likable that you hate to vote for them yeah and I think she was one of them and I think everyone was really upset that she ended being a traitor because they wanted to play with her.

And she sounds like everyone got along with it really well, too. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah, no, for sure. Okay. So then Kate gets her opportunity. So who would you have murdered if you were Kate on her final opportunity? And she murdered Cherie?

Mm-hmm. To not make it look like it was me, let me think. That's tough. I just don't think she stands much of a chance at this point. It's so tough because she kind of gave herself up. But I guess She

Yeah, you can't go Sandra Because that's obvious And so I think She does Sheree Because maybe I don't even know Maybe MJ is the right choice there I don't know what would be

I can't even think Because it's so confusing now Yeah But I think If she did CT Maybe that would have thrown some people off Part of me thinks If you go CT

And it's just all us women You take a number away from Chichelle You might have a shot here Yeah You might have a shot here. Yeah, that's the only one where I think that they might she can still convince those other girls to stick with her

if she can get them to think Trichelle's a traitor. Yeah. And that's the only path I see for her. And that's how you pin it. Be like, Trishel wanted everyone to know for sure that it wasn't her. She's the traitor. I thought Trishel was a little bit more suspicious than anyone thought. Like, you know, I think like if you're watching it, you could have pinned some stuff on her. You could have.

Like all the way through. Even at the end, whenever Trishel goes CT, MJ really fumbled the bag, in my opinion. of not saying TCT, look what's happening here. You know I'm a faithful CT. You know for a fact I'm a faithful. I know this is your friend. She just put your name on the chalkboard. Yeah.

It was a fumble by her. She should have really, really pushed that. But see, I think... Here's her friend of 20 years. She just put your name on a chalkboard for 200 Gs. Rock, but you think, rock paper, scissors. She was checking me. Now, what if, you know, because then what if she votes?

She votes for MJ and then he votes for Shichelle, and then Treschelle votes, or then MJ votes for, Trishel then C.T. and her take the money, but I think C.T. wanted to do right by another challenger. Even after she put his name on a chalkboard? I think he's a fumble by MJ. It is a fumble by MJ. But I think Trishel did that,

knowing that M.J. is an experience. And also knowing that CT has probably lied to her in the past. Yeah. So she had to check him and be like, I have power here. Yeah. And she said that too when he's like, I think, I think that's, she's like, are you think or are you sure that's what we're doing? Right.

And I really agreed, by the way, I do not. I do not give Trish out any shit for putting CT's name on that chalkboard because the vet points that she made were actually pretty valid. Yeah, he should. Now, had he told her about him going after Sandra instead of Kate,

then I don't think her move would have been valid. But I think when he lied to her once, it took her back to wherever it was in the challenge history where he lied to her or he did her wrong. And she was like, okay, now, I've been in this position with you before. I can't just blindly trust you when it comes to $200,000.

I have to check you. And that was a lot of. pretty great move. Like I... Great move. I did not... Risky, but great. I did not expect Trichelle

to have such amazing gameplay while still keeping the crazy franticness. Yeah. It was pretty great to see. I'm really proud of her too with how she went out there and approached the Bravo girls

before the second to last channel or daily. Yeah. On the open. Where she went out there and I just like, well CT eggs around. I was like, go do it. Because that's beautiful move because now CT says

go make yourself more of a target than me. awesome. But I was proud of her for being able to, I mean, that's got to be tough to be the only girl from the challenge there. And then to approach a group of four or five girls women from Bravo who, you know, I'm not saying they're trying to, they're like, you know, you know, seats taken type of thing. But they are their own entity. They are crude up. And Trichelle went out there and was, and she said what she needed to say. And I think she got her point across. And I'm really proud of her because I don't know if she had that in her. Yeah. I think she would have just kept her mouth shut years ago. And that was great. Yeah. To walk up to them and say, hey, you guys. just so you know your friend is the one ruining this right she's the one ruining this yeah and i know

that she's helping you while she's ruining it but she's still ruining it so let's let's end the problem that was all i mean i'm really as much shit as i'll talk about her and i'll continue to talk shit about a lot of people including her that was awesome i was so proud of her for doing that yeah that was dope and then one thing that you reminded me of is during the um the mission the lily pad mission when then they're they're digging for the dirt ct shows a little frustration and it just reminds me that Trishel is the only one here that really understands the ruthlessness of Chris Tamber. Like these girls don't know who he is like that. You know, they don't know that fire in the eye. They don't know the switch being flipped. The switch being flipped. She does. So her

cautiousness is very warranted by her standards, you know, especially seeing, oh, you know what, you did flip on the Peter situation. Oh, wait, you did flip on the Fager situation. You did because in reality he did switch up three times. Yeah, he pivoted. And we said when you pivoted, it makes it look suspicious. The only person he pivoted to was his number one. Right. She had every right to do that.

It was a brilliant gameplay. Yeah. It was just, you know, she was checking the cards. For sure. She was checking the temp. Yeah. Okay. So had Fadre used this opportunity to say, you know what?

I finally figured it out. C.T. Trichelle, you guys are the ones mastermining this whole thing and kind of putting them as being the traders. I don't think she would have had a chance, but I think she could have taken them out. And she was out. She was done. Yeah. And I also think she liked them both enough where she thought, I have a very difficult

path to win. You guys don't. I mean, that's, again, the difference between someone who plays games and doesn't. I'm not going to ever concede. And that's the difference with Dan, too.

Like, Dan's never going to concede. He's there to play a game. Yeah. Dan could get, like, Dan's not a television personality. He's a television competitor. Yeah.

He doesn't care about anything else besides playing the game. And that's what they have to understand. Yeah. No, for sure. Okay. So, you know, no, no, I agree.

I mean, I think that with Fadra, like she had other cards to play, she was just done playing and she thinks she had a great season, which she did.

But in reality, she didn't come close to winning, really, you know? She's in the top half, but that's like not that close. So there's a difference between playing to win and playing to have a great season.

She had a great season. A minus for me, letter grade, but it's not in the A, it's not in the A plus category because she didn't do everything to win. She would have been a dominant faithful, though.

Oh, absolutely. like Fadre would have coasted to the end. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so how do you feel about people playing this game multiple times? And because Kate had that opportunity. This is her second time playing. And I'm looking at her playing for the second time and still making a lot of these, you know, pretty obvious mistakes, letting her emotions get the best of her,

putting a target on her back. And then if you're cool with it, if you don't mind people playing traders multiple times, who would you want to see from this season? I was going to ask that too. I was going to say, who would you want to see come back? Okay, I'll think about it. I think, obviously, I'd like to see Johnny play.

I'd like to see Johnny try to take that like, flamboyant, showmanship, like, and turn it into masterful gameplay. I'd like to see if he has that in him where he can play, you know, be low-key and make it through. I'd like to see Janelle as a traitor. I'd like to see Sandra as a traitor. And obviously I think that they should bring back

the reigning champ CT because he deserves to. But I'd definitely like to see a few more challengers on there next time. Absolutely. I don't think they're ready for that. I don't think so either. I don't think they're ready for the like the rambunctiousness that that would cause. I'm going to take Peter. I would love to see Peter again in his house.

I think they could run back half this cast. Yeah. Yeah. And it would be fun. This was a really good cast. And we'd be down to watch it. And they could integrate, you know, take half of this cast and bring in some new, exciting people, maybe some, you know, real savages.

You know what? Like myself. Yeah. Bring Zach on the show. No. So I didn't think of it being that way, but like I actually really like that idea. of creating this Traders universe,

the same way there's a challenge universe. Where it's like, yeah, I played Traders two, three times. Or, you know, I came back for this season

where it's like a fraternity almost. And it's like, you know, you play, it's like a thing to play multiple times. I like that because, you know, are you a traitor this time?

Are you a faithful this time? All that is fun. So I love seeing the crossover stuff. I would love to see like, just do a challenge with Survivor versus Challengers. There you go. Take the best people from Survivor, take the best people from the challenges

and integrate both games. and see how it goes. Like there'll be some starvation type things that the Survivor people will be used to, but I don't think anyone wants to put helmets and shoulder pads on against the challenge group. No, man, that's different. That's different.

Danny McCrae is probably the only person. The champions. USA Season 1? Yeah. The only guy from Survivor that I wouldn't want to see with a helmet on would be Danny McCray, I think. There's probably a few more that I don't know about,

but maybe, you know, Chris, too. He seems like he'd be frightening now that he's won a bunch. But, yeah, I would... You're not afraid of Sebastian? Come on, man. Not unless we're in them. How about, yeah, no.

How about some of these others? No, I know you're not afraid of these guys. No. But no, I mean, that would be fun. That would be fun. And the challenge is always kind of doing different stuff. I think like, give us that. Give us that.

Give us like an extremely physical show against the best survivor against the best challengers. I think that'd be fun. I think that would be interesting. And then you could also say, let's do a take them, let's put everybody in a big brother house. Here. That's a great idea, too. take seven, seven and seven, 21 people. Put them in, I mean, we're leaving out some shows,

but like I don't think we need to see amazing race people, Dusty. Just kidding. Dusty's a challenger now. Bro, Dusty's been training. He's a tank. He's been working on that scholarship. Dusty would be great on this show, too, I think. Dusty would be fun on this show because he would just be so, like, wired all the time.

Yeah. Yeah, he'd be like, yeah, he'd be like, yeah, he'd be like, yeah, he'd be so wired on this show. have to, we'd have to buy him a kimono. Put him and Tiffany on this show. Tiffany's, I would love to see Tiffany on this show. Boom. Tiffany would kill this show. Tiffany for traitors. Put Tiffany Mitchell on traders. Now. Do it now. Actually, you think they should put Big D on there too? Seems like it fits his athletic capabilities. Actually, I think Big D might be a worse athlete than John. He'd be like the charity case. Like, Big D,

Fier off the horn. All right? You're kidding, right? Big D. Dude, Big D wouldn't make, I think he's a better athlete than you're giving him credit for. Big D wants me and Hallback. Can we set that up? You got enough country crock to butter the hallway? What are you going to use the interstate? Yeah, we can't use the turnpike. Look, like I said, like I said, that's not a hall for me.

If he beats me, he'll get a chance at you. If he beats me, he'll get a chance at you. All right. Do you think you could beat Big D in 100 meter dash? Maybe. Okay, what's... Actually, honestly, honestly. I'm going to say no. I'm going to be realistic and say no.

You don't think so? 100 meters? I'm not going to say yes. I'm not going to say yes. Not in a race. I'm not going to take myself in a race against anyone. What physical competition would you, do you know, hands down you could beat Big D in? Basketball for sure. Oh, gosh, yeah. Yeah, basketball 100%. You think you can throw hands at Big D?

No. I don't train. I'm not a boxer. But if he's, if I'm running routes too, like if I'm running routes, I'm scoring a touchdown every single play. Who's your quarterback? Whoever you want to give me, it's just, it's very, very simple physics, all right? If the defenders are here, put it, put it here. And I'm a fine. I got hands, bro. I do.

Oh, I know you do. I'm not saying you don't. I'm just wondering, maybe we can set that up a little one-on-one football, you against Big D. I'll be all-time cue. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah, dude. That'd be great.

Yep. You run out in, out and up, and I'll get you in the corny end zone, tap toe, tip-toe. That's easy. Like we're playing madden. My perfect world. Tom Brady's quarterback. Hey, millions of people will pay to see that. Charles Rogers.

We're going to have to pay people to fucking be there. Okay. Charles Woodson's guard me. Seven seconds left. I run an hour. I was going to say, but don't let me be the quarterback. That's going to be tough. Okay.

So real quick, they go to the final mission before Treschelle. There's the final mission where they had the gold and they'd get out to the boat. Yeah. Didn't it seem like CT was getting a bunch of toddlers like ready to go on an airplane trip or something, like on a flight. Like it just seemed like he was trying to organize. All right, guys. Yeah.

It's like, okay, you older kids, you go ahead and you wait up there. While I get these, like it was, I just felt so bad for him. I just felt like he was just managing children the whole time. No, it was, it was hysterical. While carrying the whole load. Let me, let me ask you, you know, be honest. Like, do you think they told them like, guys, just get onto that boat and we're going to make sure you get the money.

There's no timer. Oh, my God. Well, when Sandra jumped in the water and they're like, you have four minutes to swim, however long that was. and come back and you're going against the current. I'm thinking, well, yeah,

I don't think Sandra's making that swim. And then they're rowing, they're driving out, and then they had to, I mean, that time, that time crunch was pretty, pretty tough.

But they did it. They did it. Oh, for sure. Before they. How about Shorhaw? When I forget who asked her, I think it was MJ, they're like,

is CT going to be mad? She's like, if we all do all of them, and she goes, it's just going to take too long. Let him handle it. Yeah, he's got this. Let the man handle it.

Oh, man. He did work. But what made... He's handy. Man. Yeah, he's a handy man. You know what makes him even better was when they got done with that challenge. And he goes in there.

He's like, oh, what kind of soup is it? They're like, tomato. He's like, got any toasted bread to dip in there? Oh, yeah, yeah, man. Dude, this guy is, this guy's great. He's... Dominates a challenge. Single-handedly takes, you know, the chickens be clucking.

Get some to the finish line and comes back. And what does this guy want? He wants some toast with his tomato bisk. Yeah. And they had it for him. Yeah. Oh, hell. Yeah.

Yeah. He's awesome. He's a foodie. Before. He can cook. Real quick. Before, this is important. So.

He just ignored me. No, he's a cook? C.D. can cook really well. Oh, for real? Yeah. One of my favorite CT stories was on free agents. He brings his bag. And there was no clothes in it.

There was just a juicer. And then he asked production to bring him tons of fresh produce to juice every day. That's great. He's probably one of those guys that, like, can cook a meal in prison, just figuring it out. Oh, yeah. C. Teeth has thrown some omelets together out of this world. You wouldn't believe it. Oh, that I understand because great men make a great breakfast. Do you make a great breakfast? I can. That's a man thing.

I once cooked a breakfast at a bachelor party. Eggs, bacon, sausage, and potatoes all on a grill. Fantastic. And only half the burners were working. Oh, okay. So you're making, you're doing multiples. Everyone ate. We had, we had, we had, the only thing I did. Ben's bachelor party. We had some breakfast going. Yeah. Did you do it all on a grill?

No. Yeah, you did it in the comfort of a cottage. That's true. No, you killed the breakfast for sure. Breakfast was fantastic. But, you know, you, you began... I had four burners. You started that breakfast on third base and hit a home run.

That's true. That's true. I had all the... I started in the dugout with a broken ankle. Grand Slam. Barry Bonds. You're going to make breakfast in Myrtle Beach? We're in a hotel.

Can't cook breakfast in a hotel. You're right. We might need the Airbnb. Before the mission, Trichelle gets info that MJ and Kate want to vote Sandra. She takes that info, takes it to CT and Sandra, and they know Charlesville. This is a back and forth, and it was

whoever's name was the last one on the table is the one that's going to go. And I think it's just back and forth, people throw in blame, and it's whoever you it's like the last group to talk before you go in, okay, this is what we're going to do. And poor Sandy. We'll live. Yeah. Thoughts on the final. Thoughts on the final. I thought this was

I thought it was good because it was it was strenuous. It was just basically like a challenge mini final. Yep, that's what I had here. But it was good to see everyone kind of push. I like seeing people who aren't used to pushing themselves push themselves. It's cool to see what they can do. It's cool to see them do these challenges. And that's half the battle is just getting through those. Yeah. It's a traitorized mini final. Everyone got to the finish line. Everyone got to the finish line. I have a, I said, look, in terms of difficulty, you know, I don't want to make everything in an easy joke, but you could you could bust your ankle if you're not paying attention. So they have terrain is my point.

Oh, dude, that was treacherous train. Some would say that train was tougher than that of 38. No ankles were sprained. No ankles were sprained. Not a single ankle. Nope. Anisa would be good for this show too. Anisa would kill traitors.

I would love to see Anisand traders. She would kill it. She'd be the big trader. The big trait. Detour one, roped 5K. The other one. Throw it in the back. The back.

The other one, they have to find a rock. 5K. Um, CTS and run back for the combination. Light work. Light work. Uh, detour three. Uh, they rappel down the cliff, but none of them were crying like Corey. Uh, Kate didn't like it, but none of them were crying.

No crying. Yeah. She's good. TJ, will you save me? Will you? Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right.

And then, yeah, flag in a cave with four minutes left and they find a way to get all the money. Sandra. They took her in there. Yeah. She's like the, she's like the metal detector. Beep, beep, beep. She found it. See, T's like, grab the rope and pull yourself in.

No, I'll give her a lot of credit, though. This is out of her comfort zone. I would not want to jump in the ocean. The ocean is undefeated. You either tie and get out alive or you die in the ocean. There's no in between, really. There's no, like, it's either you got out alive or you didn't. There's no, like, it was okay.

Like, the ocean sucks. And you always watch those, like, the guardian or whatever, where they fall in the water and they got to swim into the rock. That's treacherous, man. Yeah. I don't know if I would want to do that. Luckily, they probably had life jackets on in that rope. But what if, I mean, what if you let go of the rope?

Yeah. It's scary. That was pretty scary. I wonder how, I wonder how they survived. So what did you think of the round table? By the way, CT with that bandana scarf, he was dapper. He's throwing out all the curveballs. Yeah.

They're making them look OGGQ. It's that refined ruggedness. Yeah. What did you think? of the round table we talked a little bit about it but sandra to me may have been you know a little too nonchalant and then also to defense at the same time it was weird yeah i think it came out a real fast you know like one of those storms that's it goes from a sunny day to like a you know a tornado real quick that's kind of what happened and i think she just kind of got caught with her pants down and

she got pants and that's where the skill of fager comes into play because in that moment fager's cool cool's a cucumber but it happens to sandra and she lose loses her shit. And that's also, you know, yeah, the gamer in her probably is like, oh, shit, scramble. Yeah. Where, you know, under pressure in terms of, like, confrontational situations, I don't know how Survivor is, but like, Bravo, they have a confrontation in every scene. Sandra wasn't a part of the conversations that were had, obviously, to vote her in.

So the only conversations she had were people telling her that they're going to vote for, I think, who it was, whoever else it was. Yeah. So she didn't know that it was going to be her. And when she saw it was going to be her, she was just, she had no one moves left. actually. Yeah. And once everyone has their mindset, it's tough to change it.

Yeah. You know, and I think that's also where they're getting at this point is someone's got to go now. Mm-hmm. And I do think C.T. and T. are just picking them off one by one. Yeah.

Just having fun with it. Yeah. Clowning one by one. I pull up. They're like, Kaching. Kaching. Yep.

That's more more for us. That's more for us. That's more for us. At the final fire. So they get Sandra out. At the final fire, Kate, very stupid. stupidly votes to end the game, which is impossible because someone got murdered and a trader wasn't vanished. Duh.

That was her also being like, I know you guys know. So it is what it is. In all, you think? Yeah. She conceded too. That's fair. White flag. White flag.

Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I guess, yeah, I was going to say out of all the TV we've covered, which is USA2, which is 39, which is this traitors, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But if you're saying it's basically like a will see it to yourself. Then we'll see. Yeah. And I think she's like she said, she said, I got him here, you know. I helped them win this money, but they know someone's got to go.

And I think they all knew it was her. I think they all had known it was her. And I think the only person that had no clue what was about to happen was. Sandra? Well, MJ. Oh, MJ, yeah. Sandra's gone. Kate's basically saying end the game, stupid.

Yeah, that was so. I think that had Kate voted to banish. I think C.T. and Trishel go for MJ. And then they banish. I think that was a plan. Sandra last. Yeah. But I don't think Kate had the memo because obviously they're not going to tell her that.

So Kate was like, whatever, I'm out. And then so it made them look really bad. But also, MJ worked with the Bravo people the whole season. And there was several times where they were like, hey, you need to vote this way. This is a traitor. And then she voted out of faithful. and was like, I just couldn't imagine it being Fadra. You know?

So I think C.T. was probably like, get out of here. She had MJ in her pocket the whole time. Like for her not to talk to MJ and be like, isn't it clearly them? That's what I'm saying. Like the suspicion around CT and Trichel was not what it should have been. Somebody at least should have checked the temperature on them. She could have had a number. I mean, she could have conceded.

Kate didn't even try to talk to MJ and say, hey, I'm a faithful. I've been here though. I just got here halfway through. Why would they make me a traitor? It's one of them. Let's pick them off one by one. She didn't play. Like, that's the problem is there are people playing chess

and then there's the rest of them playing checkers. And once you let those chess, people start playing chess, the further you get down the game, the more masterful they're going to get in. Yeah. The less variables, the less people, the less eyes on them. And then you can't get rid of them. No, for sure.

No, it's child's play. Childs play. They vote Ked out. Boom, the next vote. C.T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. Rochelle. Vote to find to find another trader to MJ surprise and then it goes one by one by one. Did your jaw drop when you saw a shell chalkboard? Yep.

I didn't expect that at all. And I think that look on CT's face was authentic as well. He had no idea. I think that was the first time in a long time that CT's been had. Yeah. Like someone got them. Yeah. And checked them.

I think we all in America let out a collective gasp, especially. Oh, 100%. Especially us chance people were like, because. Not often does anybody check CT. He's gone through a lot of seasons and kind of skated. because of his gameplay number one, but also because he's CT. Yeah.

And I think Trichelle was like, this isn't the challenge, hombray. Yeah, no, you ain't skating this time. You're going to get checked. And like I said, I really, really, really think that, you know, MJ, if you're a gamer, if you're watching this, if you find a way to get this, like, you'd got to know when to hold them, when to fold them. And you fold it the wrong time. MJ thought, MJ thought that they were going to buy the rules, sail off into the sunset

and win. So when that happened and someone said, let's vote again, she didn't know what those two were thinking. CT thought he knew what those two were thinking. The other two were thinking, Trishel was the only person that knew that it was going to get tied up, I think. I think she, I think a CT was. But after the second vote.

But CT had been working with MJ more so all season because he was in there with Fadra. Yeah. So he had that relationship. So I think they all, I mean, Tishel gambled. After the re-vote, if she would have pounded hard, I don't care. I'm going to say it again because it really is.

like important for her to know. It's important for you to know, MJ. You should have doubled down on Treschelle. She's a traitor. She tried to kill you at the last second. She's going to, she's going to be me and her and her money and you know it. She put your name on that fucking chalkboard. Put her your name. Put her name on yours. She fucked it up. She fucked it up. And she's mad at them for playing the game. Learn how to play. I'm, I'm like upset with M.J. Because you made it so far. You had a real chance. And you didn't play the game when it needed to be played. Sorry. I had to say it. I also think CT and T. and T. T. and T. T. T. T. T. Shreschelle took it to a point that nobody expected them to because those are the rules.

And they used a rule to make themselves more money. They knew, they knew, they knew, MJ was probably a faithful. Yeah. It was brilliant. They said, we'll see you. And we'll see you. So the reunion. We got to the reunion.

Everyone looks fabulous. Did you have some opinions on some of the looks? I mean, they all just, I mean, it's the same looks they had all season. Yeah. I mean, besides Shishel, definitely needed safety goggles. I mean, everyone else basically just, you know, You can't. Because I know they probably were given options that they had to choose from.

And, you know, they're fitting a thing. Or a budget or something. Yeah. The Scottish theme. Yeah, no. What did you feel like seeing Deonté Wilder back, man? He came and he showed his face and, you know. I thought it was a good sport.

Yeah. Good play. I mean, he told us it is when no one can, I can't talk on someone else's childhood trauma. So if that was difficult, get the hell out of there. Don't put yourself in a negative situation. For sure. So what are the highlights?

The highlights from the reunion, I feel like obviously, the MJ still being bitter is a highlight. Johnny's, I told you how bitter Johnny was. Yeah. Nothing is more vengeful than the bananas. A scorn bananas.

Dan thought he was going to have a great time and he left out of there being the most hated man in America. I feel bad. I felt bad for Dan, honestly. Because here, and Janelle said it, we never hold game moves against each other. If you're here to win and you sign up to play a game and as long as Dan didn't step outside of the rules of the game,

which he didn't, to win for himself and his family. And the difference is, Fadra and a lot of the Bravo people, went down without a fight. Dan fought to the very end. Parvety fought to the very end. The gamers fight to the end.

You can't hold that against them because they were brought up in a different environment of television than you. No, for sure. And to your point, they gave up, you know, when they should have fought harder. But don't get me. They should have fought harder.

These guys should have fought harder. You have nothing to complain about. Yeah, and Dan's move in the game like doesn't define him as a person. I don't think what he did, like what he did in the game wasn't throwing his best friend in against her boyfriend and best friend to be mean. That's not what Dan did. Dan was on life support in the game and he struggled to fight and get every last breath. And if that meant screwing over another trader, that's what that meant.

He owed her nothing. Just because you're trader, like listen, only one trader one season one. So you have to know going in that the traders have to play that card against each other at some point. Yeah, they have to be self. So I don't think Fager is very warranted. in holding that grudge and saying Dan's a piece of shit. Because I don't think Dan's a piece of shit. I think he's a shitty traitor, but he's not a piece of shit person.

Yeah, I understand the game move. I think, like, to your point, which is, like, Dan thinks this is 20 years ago. And, like, you can make these game moves and you're not affecting people's life. No, you're talking about a lot of bread. You're talking about a lot of screen time. Like, this is... But the only people that were still mad about moves that are made in the game

were people who don't play games for the reality. Johnny, that's not true. Johnny. Yeah, that's true. too. Come on. Yeah, but Johnny's angry, but also, I don't think anything that Dan did in that sense was wrong.

I think that was a brilliant move. No, that was more justified than the Fager one. The Fager one was fucking horrible, bro. You were going down. You were going down. So you might tell me, oh, I had a chance, this and that. Not in this game. This isn't Big Brother, right?

Okay. So would you concede? Would I concede? No, but I would have made the- You can't argue the move, but you can't argue the move, but you can't argue the fight that he had to fight to the very end and at least try to the very end. I agree. He should try to the very end.

What he did was dirty. And I'll stand on it being a dirty mood. It ultimately began the demise of Fadra is what it did. When he did that. Unnecessarily. And look, here's my thing. He played such a bad game that, right. He should have.

Look at the way that Fadre- No, he had to fight to the end. Give me this. When Fadra had her opportunity to continue to fight, she went probably a little too far in terms of like, I'm not going to fight it because I'm not going to ruin all their games. but she made a choice that was like, I'm gone in my eyes.

But like now I'm starting to agree with you because he has to do everything he can to try to win the game. Just because it was a shitty move doesn't mean that it was dirty. It was dirty, yeah. But it's a game and that was within the rules of the game. Does it do they? I don't think it was that bad because he owed her nothing. She wasn't in his alliance.

They were just traders together. And Fadra was playing a better game. And he was doing whatever kid to win. Yeah. I just like, if you thought, Look at the percentages, bro. Like, if you really, really thought, like, you should, you did not put yourself in a position to win. So to make somebody else lose when you're not going to win, no matter what, you're not going to win.

You think there's going to be seven freaking banishments and you're not going to get picked in one of them. Like, come on, bro. Like, stop. You do not need to take her down. So that's how Sandra looked. That's how Fager looked at it. I'm going down. There's no chance I make it all the way to the end.

Zero percent. She knew that. So she didn't fight. And she's not going to take somebody down with her. And she proved it by voting CT. I'm taking someone down with me. I'm sorry. Okay.

I might play a, if you play it here. If it's someone you don't like, yeah. At what point did him and Fager like shake hands and say we're not going to do this, this, this, and this? I don't know if they're not. That's my thought is you can fight until the very end.

You're given that option. You got kids. You got things you love. Fight for them. I get it. I get it. You don't ever want to go home. You plant zero seeds.

We're six episodes in and out of nowhere you want Fadra. It's just too. It's just fucking bullshit. No, it was a dirty. move, but again, you can hate the move, you can't hate the motive. I agree. Or the person, you know, for sure. The person, but like, like, like this,

nothing, I, Dan's move wasn't malicious. It was what he thought was going to keep him safe. Did it end up looking malicious? Yes. Did it end up being against a fan favorite? Yes, that's why he's taking a lot of heat. Had, you know, if Tamara was a traitor, no one would care. I agree with you.

It's not malicious. It's irrefucking responsible is what it is. It is. It's irresponsible. Which is a great TV. I agree. I love to see it. We love talking about it, but like, I don't, irresponsible movement. Well, same thing. Like, here's the thing.

I think that I appreciate the fight, and I also think that people like, you know, Dan and Jay should be back on TV because that stuff is, I don't like when everyone's nice. And you know what? A lot of people have defended not Dan's season or his move, but him as a competitor in our interviews, Dan's the goat, Dan's this, Dan's it. He is very highly regarded still after this. So, yeah, I agree. like to see him back on traitors too. I think he'll play a lot

differently. I think he can't be a traitor though. That's the thing is once you play as a traitor, you can only come back as a faithful. Maybe. I just don't think. If you're going to become a traitor, you have to come become a trader and be successful. You'd have to come a trader halfway through or more. Like Kate should have won this season easily.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dan play again. But that's something that's super cool about the traitors universe is like if you're playing three, four seasons, oh, like, I can just see, I would love to see two seasons of this a year. Like it'd be fun if they did two a year. So that way people got multiple. People were able to get multiples and they could sprinkle people in. And like, because hey, I was a traitor three or I was faithful three times and I was a traitor once or whatever it was.

Would it get played out though? Would it get stale if they did it too many times? Or is one a year good? That's a good question. Or is it one a year? Is it more than that? I don't know. Personally, I think.

What do you get bored with it? They'd have to add things and take things. Yeah. Yeah. Coming up with the challenges. Like that's the, that's the tougher part, I think. But like, no, I think the drama of it. it's something that I won't get sick of.

I really like, because like we, you know, we play these types of games for those of you who they play Mafia, is what we call it in our family. Like, it's something that you play every holiday. It's like, to me, you don't get sick of it. So I would like two seasons a year, personally. Yeah. No, two seasons a year, I think is doable.

Yeah. And I think, like, if somebody's played as both, like, the way that they play the game might be, you know, it alters like, hey, like, you know, play different as a traitor. Play different as a faithful. It just really like, I love the mind games of this show. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah, it's so fun. It is. And the more I watch it, the more I realize it is a huge mind game. That's why, like, people like the Bravo people or the bachelor people, love is blind, whatever you do, like, you all have a place here because it is mostly mental. And, like, you put me in a mental. Yeah, I mean, if John can do the challenges, I think anyone can. Yeah.

Put me, and I think, like, that's the intrigue for the fan is it's not like the challenge where, like, for me, I'll never say I could go on one, but I think I could be in this game. You know? Oh, I think anyone could be on, yeah. It's a game for everyone. Yeah, for sure. Anything else from the reunion you wanted to talk about? No, that's about it.

All right. Well, it was an absolute pleasure to watch the show. Hopefully they come back very soon. And hopefully you're on it. Oh, that would be amazing. I'm going to work some magic. I'm going to L.A. next week. Maybe I can meet with some people.

Ooh, the big negotiation. The big deliberation. The big deliberation. The big table for one. The big constipation. The big procrastination. destination and the big determination and the big obligation we're having fun will Zia yep traders will Zia