The Zach Nichols Podcast - ZNP Special Traitors Review EP. 7-9 + Exclusive Dan Gheesling Interview!

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

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And we're back to the Zach Nichols podcast. You're with my co-host, Mr. Zach Nichols. And quite possibly my favorite co-host, Anthony Nichols. You're another big, pause, and another big round of applause for Anthony Nichols. Right, buddy? All right. And you know what's crazy? I never thought about it, but people have been asking me who's my favorite guest has been,

and it's just been so obvious right in front of me this entire time. My favorite guest by far, Anthony Joseph Nichols. here we go buddy welcome back to the couch he's got a fruit stick he's got his superhero pants chung with some toys yeah probably got a loaded diaper don't know haven't checked since we got here bad bad bad dad terrible father um yeah no it's funny make you some piss on the couch we could always replace it we could never replace our time with my nephew your son here in the building you know it's funny all this uh all this dad talk you know that video still circulates from our first uh our podcast

with Jenna about the baby diapers. Something tells me you're changing, on average, about three or four per day these days, huh? Three or four. I'd say three or four before most people had their coffee. These guys are getting it out there. We'll definitely talk a little bit more about... We got some stories that tell.

But we only have enough snacks to get through three episodes of traders before Anthony loses his shit or craps his pants. So here we fucking go. Let's get to it. Okay, so... I guess some other things to say, but I forgot because I do get anxiety when Anthony's here. It's okay.

We're going to do Z&P tomorrow, and if he's here, then we're going to find a way to get it out. But if you guys are hearing this, it's Traders. Episode 7 through 9 review. Let's get into it. So we get back to see the invitation to seduce Peter on the Traders. You can't seduce a Bachelor. What a Hardo. His middle name is Jordan.

Jordan. Peter. I would just say, yes. But you know what? Here's the thing. I feel like the more I watch this, the more you have to have to have a target and you have to make sure everyone knows a target

and you have to get close enough and then back off and close enough and back off. And you can't pivot. And so Peter becoming a traitor, I think he knows, I don't think he's doing it because of this. I think he's doing it because he's so fired up about, like, traitors versus faithfuls.

And that's where his mindset is. Right. Reality, that is probably his best game move because as soon as he becomes a traitor, he's got a pivot. And when people see a pivot, red flags go up. And even if you're not a traitor and you do a pivot, it's just don't give anyone a reason, you know? Well, it's a good point. I think like, don't give them a reason.

I think this game is different with these guys because, like, I don't think they care about the money at all. To be honest. I think they want to leave this experience. I disagree. I think there are certain people who do care about the money. And I think there are certain people who don't. Do you think Peter cares? I think Peter wants to make sure that the faithfuls win.

I think if Peter is the type of guy where if he gets like taken out, but that because of that a traitor gets taken out, Peter would be like, I did what was right for my people where it's like, no, dude, you're just playing a game. Right. Like, but he's like dying on this sword. He's into it.

But here's a thing. He's not a competitive reality guy. That's what I'm saying. For him, he's more like, like babies were just draping themselves on him. How like this is actual game. But I was like thinking like,

how embarrassed would you be to be like, oh yeah dude I was on The Bachelor yeah well like what's sure are you on at the bachelor I'd be embarrassed why would I mean come on I like I don't know you don't watch The Bachelor but uh that's terrible you're if you're the bachelor if you're saying oh I was a contestant on the bachelorette if you're the bachelor it's kind of cool it is cool no i'm a stand on it's cool but when you go into a house with dante wilder at least c t and bananas be like oh yeah i've won the challenge and dante wilder who could kill you in one punch is like oh what do you do oh yeah i was on the batser all my job Want, want, want. Yeah. The only person who can be worse in that situation is John.

Oh, my God. I can't stand his out. Well, I'll say this. The funny thing is, is that he had one job to win his season. That's to like a girl and have him like her back and couldn't do that, right? So he is playing. He's a pilot. He's a pilot.

He is doing, he is playing. Let's talk about his game. How do you feel about Peter's game so far? At this point? At this point, exactly. Throughout all the episodes, not. Like, is it entertaining? Yes.

like a bloodhound for the traders. Yes. But is that smart? No. No. Definitely not. It's terrible gameplay. That's why this move specifically not becoming a traitor. It was so like, it's horrible. Yeah. It's just no, I think it's actually, that's the best move for him, but it just, there's already a target on his back. So he has to oust the traders is what he has to do. Yeah. I don't see, that's the thing is I think

the more I watch this show, the less cocky I get about being a traitor. I think it's really hard. It is hard. And I think like for somebody like Peter, if he went in there, let's say he became the traitor. If he went in there and they played this game where they were like fighting against each other this whole time and kind of like what you said, get close enough to make it seem like a thing and then back off in a real Josh style way, right? That way you're always relevant. You're always fighting, but you're never the end target, which I think a lot of the traders are really messing up with right now. You're not giving people someone to go after. Right.

They're trying to divert attention. Now, Dan did it to an extreme where he's. he was like, I have a secret, but I can't tell you until tomorrow at 12 p.m. Yeah. Like nerd. And that secret and that that whole thing didn't come out until he was already a name. Like if you want to know how to be a traitor, go back and watch season one and watch Surrey Fields. Here's the thing.

She played it perfectly. However, I do think that every game is different. I see maybe there's more of like, I see like people are getting into groups, right? They're all about the numbers. So essentially, everyone wants. to get to the end, like a lot of the gamers, right? They're talking numbers because it's not about getting a trader out. It's about getting to the end and then getting the trader out because,

but they wanna get to the end. Yeah. And that's why they're all talking about numbers. So that's why I think a lot of the decisions that have happened, thanks buddy, are happening. Because I think that they're trying to get traitors. They're not trying to get traders out there trying to keep themselves safe. So you're playing this like balance game of, I gotta go for a trader, but I don't wanna go for a trader if they're working with me.

until a certain point. Right. So you're playing. We're seeing that with Sherey right now. There's so many angles. So, I don't know if I, I think being a faithful and being a faithful,

I think CT's playing the best game right now. Okay. Hands down. So real quick, I want to touch on Surrey real quick. I didn't watch season one. Yes, Surrey Fields.

What made her so good in comparison to what the traders are doing now? She was like Fadre on steroids. Everyone loved her times a million. And she would always be like, if someone else said a name, Surrey would piggyback on that, would piggyback on that, but she wouldn't, she would never be the leader. So see, like,

Oh, oh, oh. Hey, buddy. How you doing? You got to talk, though. So, like, we talked a lot about Jay in 39 about how he's Mr. Me Too. And if you're doing it from a vindictive standpoint, it's, like, obvious that you're a piece of garbage. All right. Hold on one side.

Go ahead. Okay, yeah, so what made Sarifields great at the game and what did she bring to it that, oh yeah, you were saying that she's like Fadron steroids? I think she's just extremely likable. She played both sides without somehow letting both sides. Oh, that's what it was. We're saying on 39, we saw Jay be a Mr. Me Too. Explain that to me, Mr. Me Too.

So somebody would bring up somebody else's name. Me Too is like the rape thing. Oh, right, yeah. I just want to make sure we're not talking like, I'm like, are we talking about Jake like raped or something? No, no, no, no. So what I mean... Is that why it looks like a sucker

that was pulled out from a bus seat? That's that why? That might be why. When he came out of the water, that looks like a lollipop that just got pulled out of a cushion. No. That's the best explanation for it.

That is so... Just imagine just pull it out of a sucker. That's what it would look like. It looks like Jay's hair. Dude, you're terrible. Why are you laughing at that joke? Because I think it's so... All right, we'll get back on track.

So fucking belly laughing five minutes in. I already punished my child, sniffed an ass and got Pierre belly laughing. But I can't help, bro. I can't help, because I'm just thinking of the sucker coming out of this. Okay. Okay. All right. Start coming out of what?

Mr. Me Too. Mr. Me Too. Me too. Me too. Somebody else brings a name up or somebody wants to have an issue with somebody else. And he's always, oh, yeah, me too. Oh, yeah, yeah, me too. Oh, yeah, yeah, me too.

Oh, no, yeah. No, I think we should go with him, too. Yeah, but Sarre did it in a very likable way. But Sarre's, it's like, here's a thing. I think she just has such a likeable personality, and she's a nurse, and she's, you know, she's not, she could lie, but she's genuine. Exactly. She said it. She explained it when she got on Big Brother that she's like a gangster, like a mobster. She'll tell you what you want to hear to your face, make you believe it. And as soon as you turn your back, yeah, well, yeah, walk the plank. No, she's great, man. I love, I love watching her on the season of Big Brother, but back to this episode or, yeah, this season of the Trader, 7 through 9. Fadra, she's, she's close to playing a tight game.

She is making mistakes. Yeah, she started to swerve a little bit. Yeah, she's making mistakes. Started to like, boom. Yeah. If you were Peter, the next morning at breakfast, thank God I'm not. Would you have without that information?

Or would you have told your select few, like he decided to tell us. Honestly, I have no idea. I would have probably waited to say something. But what was funny was I wouldn't have turned to John. I've been like, I have something to tell you after breakfast. I can't tell you now, John.

I know John has hearing aids in, so maybe wait to tell him secrets. In a secret spot. In a secret spot. You don't need to tell him right now at breakfast. I thought that was the dumbest move ever. Anyone that saw that knows. So during Poverty, I'm sorry, during Povarty. It's during.

Parvati. Oh, yeah, sorry. It's parvety. Anyone who complain about that, thank you, but also suck my ass. Don't care. Like, that's a tough name to get. Yeah. All right.

Don't be weird, dude. Come on, man. He's a gift. I know he's a camera. I'm just joking. All right. All right, yeah. So parvati.

Parvati. So parvati. Someone actually sent us how to pronounce that, like a YouTube video clicking in. It was like, Parvati. Yeah. And I was saying, I was saying Parvati or something. Parvarty. Barthi.

Let's throw a Pavarty tomorrow. Big Pavarty this weekend. Yeah, we'll have a security with Pavarty on it, Pavarty. Bavarty on it. A bunch of idiots. Okay. So poverty. poverty. Parvety. Parvity. Parvity. Okay. So during breakfast, Parvety goes in for a hug for Peter and he like half dodgers. He's like, whoa, like I'm not trying to try to give you a hug.

Oh, yeah. That was like the most awkward hug I've ever said. He like dipped on her. Yeah. She was like, you know what else was an awkward hug? The hug between Sandra and John. Yeah. Go back and watch that. It was like almost like John hasn't been hugged in 40 years. I'm going to go back and see that. I don't know what to do with my hands. So Peter gathers Treshell, Kevin Bergey, John, lets them know that he was recruited. Fager walks in and she's immediately kind of like, hey, like give us a minute, gives him a minute, realizes he's crude up. So Treschel is on this Fager train. I'm going to tell you what.

Trishel is frantic. But despite her franticness, she's really good at this game. Oh, yeah. I don't know if she'd be a good, maybe she would be a good trader, but she picks up on things like you wouldn't believe. and she's smart because why would you go for a traitor?

I like how she doesn't want to go for parvety because everyone knows that. So let her go, let her go, right? But you do, you know, there's a chance you're going to be killed. But she sees Fager being very connected and very surrounded. And I think that freaks her out, right? So I love that move. And I think it's brilliant. And at first I thought she was just some crazy drunk woman in the house.

But she's a professional poker player. Oh, yeah? And I always would be like, oh, yeah, okay, yeah. Like, I'm a professional football player. Semi-pro indoor football. I got paid, but I wouldn't call me a professional. Yeah. Right?

I mean, it looks good on paper. But I'm like, yeah, you're played poker because you know, your girl who knows how to play and they invited you and they're, you know, no, I think she's a name. You're good looking, but she's got. I think she's good, dude. So. I will eat my words. I thought this was going to be an absolute shit show of a season for, and she's killing it.

Oh, she is in the know. And she still has the. meltdowns, right? But she's doing pretty good. No. At this point, Sandra kind of feels like a pizza trader. She gathers the leftovers that she calls. Why does she think pizza traitor? He has done nothing. Traitor. Like, if you're a traitor, you're not going to be the loudest, most upfront guy, right? You would think? I wouldn't. Or maybe that would, maybe that's how you do. That's the Josh move to like disguise yourself in plain sight. I don't know. But I don't, I wouldn't have, Peter wouldn't be the first. Here's the thing. I'm not going to go for Peter as a traitor. Why? Because

Let's say he's not a traitor. He's going to get killed before me. So let him do his thing. Now, if people keep ending up dead and Peter keeps being, then you know, right? You keep talking about how there's so many angles to this thing. There's so many angles. I would suck at it. I thought it would be good at it, but I would suck.

It is so true because you have to help the faithful to a certain extent. But if you're wrong in public, it looks, and especially if you do what this guy's doing. He's trying to make moves. He's trying to, like, lie to people and, like, play stupid. He doesn't, yeah. Peters has been, like, putting, setting out booby traps. And it was perfect at first because his booby traps actually exposed Dan and Parvety. That's true.

Suck that fan. Parvety. Parvety. Parvety. Actually, thank you very much for the correction. I don't want to sound like an idiot. Yeah, no, we appreciate it. I sound like a moron for two hours on an internet show.

Moron. Anyways, you're right. You're totally right. That move was good. But see, you can only, if you miss with that move, it's no good. Right. no for sure so right like let's say Dan was like well I'm not I'm a faithful

now that looks terrible now you're dead right now you're dead now you are the traitor right so he is flirting a fine line with that but he's also the big like the biggest person to get out like he has to fight every day to get a shield because if he doesn't there's a 99.100% chance he's going to get picked up yeah the honorability thing that with him is just keeping him right on the edge of being the hero versus being the villain and it happens it culminates in in episode nine where CT's just telling him like, nah, dude, I'm going for you. Like, you're inconsistent as shit.

And he tells him. Do you think he's overcompensating because he was the bachelor and he feels like he has to be the main traitor, you know, like bloodhound? Well, I think that there's been rumors that that's why John is being such a faithful guy. It's because he doesn't, like being a politician, he doesn't want to be looked at. It's a scumbag. He is a scumbag. Yeah, well. Because he is a politician.

All politicians suck. Do you want me to go over my reasons why? Oh, I would love to hear that. Number one, Joe Biden. Oh, there you. go. Number two, Nancy Pelosi and what she's done in San Francisco. Here's my biggest thing with politics. I hate them all. I don't like any of them really. But what I hate the most is when you look at anything that the government has taken control of or run,

how about the war on drugs? Marijuana is flourishing. It is a champion right now. It's true. Marijuana is the Patrick Mahomes of the drug game. Of the drug game. It wins. It won. It's winning in every state. They would call that crossover where marijuana has crossed over. over into medicine. Well, you know, marijuana actually originally was medicine. Right. The DEA came and ruined everyone's good time. And anyways, long-

It's crossed over to medicine and recreation. But let's put, like, billions of dollars to fight marijuana and then let it win. So that's number one. Number two, Jimmy Carter started the Department of Education when we had the number one education system in the world ever since then we've gone down. So what's the point? So we're paying for a Department of Education, which has ruined our education. So I automatically hate all politicians.

I don't care what side of the fence you're on or what side of the room. I think you're a scumbat. Get a real job. Get a real job. That's how I feel. I think small business owners should run all the business owners and there should be some representative of people. They should make the decisions for smaller areas. Like these like people, they don't know what we're going through.

100%. The American dream has become in the American nightmare. Speak on it. Think about it. When I was growing up, you know, if you're a dad, made anywhere above 40 grand you were living in a nice house your mom got to have to stay home the groceries were paid for now it's like everyone's got you have to have two people working just to afford the middle you know middle class lifestyle it is true they've really literally destroyed the whole

idea of the american dream and it's that it really is no now for parliament might be different no i don't know actually i didn't like you know here's the crazy part about anthony get out of there that's expensive equipment what was crazy was yesterday Speaking of government, you voted. I voted. G, did you vote? G. Didn't make it out to vote.

What about Michael? Did you vote? The fuck? That's what's wrong with the kids these days. No, for real. Here's the thing. If I didn't go and vote yesterday, I would never hear the end of it from Jenna.

She literally, and I agree. She's like, if you don't go and vote, you're the biggest hypocrite in the world. I agree. So, you know, I made sure beans and I went out and voted, tried to slip one in for beans, but I wasn't voting for the Democratic side, so they wouldn't let me cheat.

Yeah. But anyways, the thing was is I said to Jen, I was like, hey, I'm going to vote today. And she goes for what? And I'm going to go to the primary. She goes, oh, what are you voting for? And I said, you literally make me feel old. Yeah. And I'm like, did you not learn?

Like, she just does not really care about that stuff. And I think that's a problem, you kids these days. Sometimes, man. Sometimes you don't. You got to take a future in your own hands. Do you like paying $3 for guests? Do you like interest rates being at, what, 8%? For those of you looking for a house, do you like not being able to get a house?

Not easy right now. Yeah. It was a lot easier four years ago, six years ago. Listen, for real. Keep it real with it. But that's John sucks. And I also don't like old people on reality television, like that old. You know why?

Because they become like a mascot. And people keep them around because they feel bad for them. And they somehow sneak their way to the end when it's like, John should have been gone before the show even started. John should have been gone before. Like, John is there and Johnny Bananas isn't. We're missing out on so much. I thought about that seven times doing these notes.

Get rid of John and give me Johnny bananas. Give me bananas, dude. I think Johnny would suck at traders because Johnny likes to make public moves, but he would be, he would be, give us more than like a half episode. Yeah, we got scammed. Yeah. We really got scammed. But it's crazy, though, especially. I don't want John.

I don't like John. So the one thing about John that we had, do have to mention, if he was actually a traitor right now and he was playing the exact same way, it would be one of the most brilliant seasons you've ever seen. For real, because there's zero suspicion on him. But maybe that's why is because. when you have nothing to lie about, it's easy. Michelle's killing it maybe because she has a completely clear conscience. That's how it's done.

No, for sure. And it's, you know, it's crazy. All right, well, let's get back to it. Sandra,

she seems really smart. Why do you think she hasn't, like, identified any traders so far? Because she's obnoxious and she actually isn't very smart. I don't know. Maybe she is. She's very good at Survivor,

right? But I'm just, she's annoying to me. Yeah. She's always got to yell something out at the host or, I know you, Dr. Will. She's like a... She's, you know what? She's giving me straight ninja vibes.

I hear that. You feel that, though? I do feel there's like a know-it-all quality that I don't like. It's very ninja. Yeah, it's like, she's like ninja's great aunt. I mean, she won Survivor. You got to give... That's like a hard, that's a very hard thing.

Winning Survivor's all about being able to struggle. But when she... I forget what challenge it was. was ones where they were running through the woods with partners. Yes. Sandra literally said this is the hardest challenge I've ever done. And at that moment is when I realized the challenge is the greatest competition show in television history. Yeah.

Because here's a survivor champion, like one of the greats. And she's telling us that this challenge that Kate from below deck could finish is the hardest challenge she's ever done. Fadra. Fadra. Fidre. 50-year-old housewife. Give me a break. Yeah.

The challenge reigns supreme always. Hey, talk about it. I can talk about it all day. So the Daily Mission, we'll talk about that right now. So they had to carry the gold through the woods and then there's some. Yeah. And you'd be shocked how hard those answers are to, like those questions are. Sorry, you'd be shocked how hard it is to answer those questions when you're, like, we're watching it.

We're like, oh, it's easy. It's the moon. But when you're in the moment, you see something different or it's just, funny how even just the dude just said the name of the woods and people couldn't even do that. I would have been there too. I'd be like, this is a name I'm not used to. It was wild that poverty, poverty. It's crazy that you keep saying poverty. It's parvati. No, it's not. It's parvety. Parvety and John made it through unscathed, completely unscathed. And so did Sandra and Kevin. So, you know, I thought the movie traps were fun, fun twist. Sandra and Kevin. Yeah,

See, okay, that's where you look at it and you think that Sandra is good at these games because she remembered those things. But she also thought this little junk through the woods was the hardest thing she's ever done. So, come on now. A, brawn over, brains over brawn one and that one. Yeah, whatever, dude. They got to choose who they were playing. If you're a traitor-

How about how CT and Fager buddyed up real quick. Like, how you're doing? Exactly. How you're doing? Yeah, now say more, say more like that. Like, say a whole sense. It's like, you know, I took up smoking on World of Worlds, too.

Because I am. To hang out with him more. That's great. Literally, I would, well, I brought Black and Miles. What's the cigarette of choice? I brought, CT. Yeah. The ones that light.

I think he likes menthols, but I don't know if he, I don't know if he just smokes menthols when he's out of the country, but I brought, like, you know, black amounts come in packs of five or whatever. I brought like 30 of them. Oh, that's great. And I just, I spent so much time with him because, like, he's always smoking by the ashtrays.

Because they don't want to see, you know, MTV and BMP. They don't want people smoking on camera. It's a bad look, right? We're supposed to be attractive, these, like, physical specimen. And then there you go seeing someone win five seasons. He's a chain smoker, you know? Yeah. So I, but I picked it up just because I liked hanging out with him, man.

I got to hang out with them more. You got to talk, pick his brain. And it wasn't even, it was more about just past challenges, life. Because I never, I knew he was never going to come for me. But I just, you know, I picked up smoking for that season because I enjoy spending time with CT. That's great. So they got together real quick. You probably get pissed by me talking about that.

We can cut it. We're not going to cut it. I'm just saying, does anyone really want to be like, you know, whatever? I guess I wouldn't want my kids hearing that. But I don't think his kid's a subscriber, so we're good. Yeah, we're straight. So, yeah, they go through that challenge. They were running through the woods.

You know, you can twist an ankle, a lot of these 50-year-old women. Like an isa? how Anisa did in first 30 seconds. But then Jordan told her, if you just think hard enough, it'll heal itself. Bro, come on. Anisa. He almost got that done. Isn't that crazy?

Listen, you know how I feel about that. All right. So, man. Oh, he is. He's the go. All right. So now, listen, we know there's some heat on Peter. But when he comes to Parvety and says,

we should work together. What do you think about that move? John? No, Peter. This is after that challenge. See, that's where I'm starting to question it. Yeah, I thought you're talking about it. They didn't work together on the challenge,

but you're talking about in the game afterwards. Yeah, yeah. And that was completely, see, I never know if is Peter doing this to like suss something out or is you doing it because he's serious or did someone explain the numbers to him too? And he realized that if we get rid of Parvety, then this side of the house is screwed.

And so maybe he, in his, had or someone told him like Trichelle, hey, if we get rid of Parvety now, we know she's a traitor. Let's save her for the end. If we get rid of her now, like, then we're screwed because they have the numbers. No one is going for Fadra. Yeah. It's like a free quiz. But I don't know if anyone told him that or if that's why he did it. But I'm, I was wondering why would you do that? Because again, a pivot in your strategy looks really bad. Yeah. And so 100%. I thought this was like a really weird move by him. It's like, you already have her in your hands. Why are you

even rocking the cradle? Yeah. I didn't understand it at all. I didn't. I think even if you were going to vote for Parvety, I think that you need to not make that public until you get to the roundtable. And then at least maybe you can get away saying, oh, I'm just hopping on the bandwagon. I don't have enough. Hey.

Fadrera is in that conversation at first. And then as soon as That's smart. That was such a brilliant. Yeah, talk about it. So he, he starts saying, hey, do you want to work together? She dips quick. I don't want to be part of this. What did you think about it? I don't think, I think because she didn't want to get pulled into it and be a part of that because she knew as, you know, I do. I think that was a brilliant, I think that was a brilliant move. I think that Fager did what she needed to do to just be, you don't, sometimes not knowing is better because then your reaction is authentic. But I think

she recognized that those two dealing together. You don't want to be around that because, hey, she's a traitor and he's the first one that's going to get killed as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Absolutely. And that's a. bargaining chip. When she knows, oh, I can say to everybody, they started talking and I walked away. Right away. It's like literally, it's equity. Yeah. Equity. And then everyone says, oh, you must be a faithful because you don't even want to be a part of this conversation with parvety. Yeah. See, being a trader is weird to me because you have to work with each other. But at the same time, you don't want the other trader to get a leg up. So you also have to be really shady. So again,

it comes down to who cares more, you know. What you said is so smart. What you is if poverty's already implicated and someone chooses to essentially say let's work together, uh-uh, I'm not working with her. I can't. Even if you're working with her in the shadows, which you are, you're not going to let everybody know you're working with her in public. Hell no. And if you choose to pivot off your vote, do it and try to make it seem like it was a split-second

decision because this flip-flopping, even if you are a faithful, it still looks bad because you're changing everything you were saying. And again, that is just a... it's a red flag and it's just to put that in people's mouths and give them a don't give people the reason but see i that's why i think there's like a secret game of numbers going on that we're not seeing all of they're keeping it to strictly faithful and traitor talk they're not giving us that maybe from editing because it's not the actual game but i think there is the number talk is a big part of it we also don't see like are they really going to their own room and spending only time there are

they having you know you're off camera now so you get some time away or you get you know are they texting. Right. They have their phones. Because when we were on Champ Stars, we only had to do a certain amount of hours of social interactions. And then everyone just kind of went back to their own rooms and you could hang out with each other and cameras weren't there. So I have a suspicion that there might be some of that going on. I would think so too. Because I don't understand a lot of these pivots. And we did hear see Sandra literally using the pool balls to explain the numbers to people. And it doesn't, what it seems to me is it does not matter who the traders are until the end. Everyone just wants to kind of make it to the end. And that's, why the house is split. But then I wonder is now CT playing it smart and saying, okay, I'm going to vote for a person on this side of the house and I'm going to vote for a person on that side of the house. I'm just going back and forth to keep the numbers where they're at so that I'm never on the one ousted. I just keep in the middle and I'm always like the swing vote. That's what he did in War of the Worlds, too, to the Brits. He literally would play on Kar and Polly side. Then he'd play on Kyle's side. And then he'd go back and forth. And he would make sure the numbers were even until the

very end. Then he said, yeah, screw this. Save Tori, sent in Ashley against Nani. And it was a brilliant move. But that's what I feel like CT's doing now. And I think that CT is here to win. I think CT is actually really wants the money. I mean, you know, socially, he just got out of that divorce. Yeah. So I think he really wants the money. Yeah. So he's playing almost an impeccably perfect game to a point of he doesn't even care that he has 20 years of experience or 10 years of experience with Richel. He's playing strictly the game. You're opening my eyes so much to certain things right now. And one of these.

Doing it without being like, look what I'm doing. Right. He's playing stupid. And you think he's the only one. It's funny because I was going to ask you this question, but now you literally just answered it, which is, well, you think Trishel's going to pick up on that and T.T.'s not. Hold up.

You think CT doesn't realize that Fager could be a traitor? No, he knows. The second he has a little bit of some evidence he could sit on, for example, for the shooting thing, he goes, oh, yeah. Even though Sandra was the one to bring it up, hey, why don't you go to for Trichel's name? but because Fager was the first one to take a shot at Treschelle's window. He used that little inkling.

He loves Fadre. He cares for her, but he knows he has to get her out eventually. They gave him a little bit of juice and he's taking it. Right. And he's so smart. C.T.'s opening the door. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, here you go, Trichelle. You know what I'm saying? He knows what she knows, but I really feel like C.T. Because he really hasn't, he was kind of talking to Peter for a while. And then he told Peter, hey, bro, like, you're flip-flopping, dude, I don't like it. you know and then he ends up you know in episode i think nine or yeah nine he votes for fager so c t doesn't care and if the majority of the house is going one way he's going to go with them then he's going to go back here and he's go back and forth he's trying to set it up so that he his game

never changes he's keeping homeostasis in the house for himself but he's not if whether he's doing it purposely which i think he is or not it's a brilliant game move because he understands it's a game of numbers i think he know he knew dan i think he knew i think he sniffed dan out right away. Yeah. I think C.T. is only voting for traders if he's 100% there, a trader, and if it's 100% going to still keep him safe.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, so if Peter were to go, Trichelle's next in line. He's still good. I think he would start protecting for Trichel a little bit more. But if she's out there, I think then he's going to maneuver what John into that spot, which is kind of what I think the, the, uh, the torch thing did. Yeah.

And I think the torch thing and obviously the, the vote at the end where he voted for Fager, we don't know what's going to happen. but he's letting everybody know I'm a free thinker. And I'm going to do what at, but at the same time, he's just keeping the numbers in his favor. And the numbers in CT's favor aren't when everyone's with him.

It's when there's enough people on one side and enough people on the other. He's like the casino. He sets the betting line so that there's an equal number of people betting and he collects the juice. CT's the reason why like the NFL big games always make the spread.

That's CT right now. So at the house, after, in the evening, after the challenge where they were running through the woods. Yeah. Gotcha. Alan invites them to the foyer to tell them, hey, we're going outside. We're not having a round table tonight. And they have this torch lighting ceremony, very eerie.

I love this because, you know what it does? You see this move on the challenge all the time. This is a move from production to basically make everyone who wasn't chosen super paranoid and to show where everyone's true allegiance falls. Absolutely. And the domino effect, the safety chain, that's what I thought made me think of. It's the, this is a production, like, come on. Yeah.

Oldest book and the, oldest trick in the scroll. Yeah. You know? Tale is the oldest time. Song is old as rhyme. So, uh, they start off with Kevin and Sandra making a choice. They choose Sherey. I thought it was an interesting choice.

Um, was that surprising to you that they chose Sherey. I mean, I feel like Kevin for him, the numbers weren't in his side, but he's like, oh, I'm not going to ruffle any feathers by it. Yeah. I think he just was trying not to ruffle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and then it goes Shire to Fadro, which was obvious. And then her. She chooses CT, her Castle Daddy, as she called him. And then CT chooses John over the likes of Treschelle. I think because John's more even killed and John has more people. John obviously has more people on his side. Yeah.

And it's much more of a justifiable move. If you're just like, oh, everyone knows John's a faithful. It's not even debatable. So I'm just making sure that the faithful stay alive. Right. Yeah, no, very smart in my opinion. He makes a quote. He's had some great quotes.

John? C.T. Yeah. If we're playing the game's not about friends. I hope everybody can understand. It's not a dead sentence. It's not, but it also, you mean, put yourself on the other side and also remember who Trishel is. She's, I mean, you can tell she's a little frantic.

She's a little, she's got a little paranoid Pam in her. Yeah, she does. Paranoid Pam. So he knew what he was setting up right there, you know. Yeah. And it's also like, I think for him, like, he doesn't, he becomes the hero in the next episode where he lets her get the shield. So, like, he knows how to set himself up. to be the man in later episodes.

I just, you're making me realize the steps he takes to set himself up. So he did what he did. And I think he was presented an opportunity to kind of redeem himself. And he took full advantage of it. But also I think C.T feels really safe. Of course. I don't think he,

because he, CT's really good at, you notice like everyone else has to say a name. But CT's so good at being like, well, I'm just, I don't know it anymore. I'm so confused.

but he gets he's been getting away with it for sure you know like he's always but he has put names out there he has gone after people um he hasn't pulled uh well i just don't know like fadra's getting close to a point where she needs to start saying names she needs to start pointing fingers it's episode nine and she's very she's much sneakier than dan she's much better at it than dan but she needs to pick it up here pretty she's starting to get sussed out that's been my biggest problem with the traders gameplay is like they're playing to not get caught instead of literally playing possum. Instead of playing to have them catch the wrong person.

Yeah. Big difference. Set Pete. I mean, I don't know how you do this, but you have to find opportunities to set people up to look shady. Exactly. You got to... Like stepping out of the room when two people go have a conversation. Now you at least can throw parvety under the bus to the rest of the house because you weren't a part of that conversation.

Yeah. And if you, you might be numbering your days by doing this, but they took out poverty. Well, Dan, actually, I do remember. Dan was doing that to just get poverty off his back. Yeah. He was quote unquote faking it. Or Pete, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Dude, sorry. Pete was literally, Pete had that conversation with Parvety to literally just get her off his back and he was quote unquote faking it. Sure. Now he says he is. He just, but he's all over the place with these moves. That's why it's like if people choose the Parvati Pete side, then they're going to go for Fadry. But they haven't been. They took Parvity even though that was at the time.

Because there's a... Fadra's group is much tighter knit. And that's the problem. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's Trichelle. It's Pete.

Bergey. When he's not changing his diaper. Kevin. Kevin. John. And then there's a whole other side of the house. But there's a lot of floaters in that group who go back and forth. Whereas like Sheree and...

M.J. And M.J. They stick true. Yeah. They stick together. Okay. So Sandra comments on Peter's demeanor and just says like, man, he was really nervous. I think he could be a faithful.

But the lies are catching up to him, man. Well, he's just flip-flopping and he thinks that there's going to be no repercussions. You know, he's like, even if you're a faithful, what you're doing, you're playing, you're making traitor moves as a faithful, you know, you got to stop that. He should have stayed on Parvety. And then once she was gone, he could have been like, see? And then he could almost fade back away. You never want to go, because now that he, listen, in the chance that the two people's names that you're saying are both traders, getting rid of one doesn't get the other one off your back.

So had he never said Parvety, or had he never said Fadra and just stuck to Parvety, I think Fager doesn't want to kill him. So that's kind of where I'm thinking maybe he truly doesn't know what's going on because I would think only one name needs to come on. Like same thing is like you pick one person who you can always vote in on the challenge. Here, same thing. go after one person until it's either proven, right? He just threw out another name, and now it, you know, can't get killed twice, I guess, but... And it's, whenever he's having that conversation with CT,

I'm like, I'm listening to him, and obviously we know what the truth is, but, like, what he's saying is right, his tactics, they have got two traitors. They did block a shield. You know, they did use a shield to block a murder. Like, he has been somewhat right, but he's also been lying and being caught lying.

Yeah, that's the thing, too, is he keeps doing these like moves where he has the lie to get these moves done. At a certain point, people aren't going to believe you whether it's the right thing or not. Well, and I think people just get in, people don't like the pivoting, right? The back and forth. And I said this one, Anthony, stop. Anyways, the pivoting is what's killing him. But, I mean, he's still around.

Still around. Somehow is, he's like the town drunk who never gets arrested because he can't drive. He's Davy Stone and eight crazy nights. He's going to get banished real soon if he doesn't make a pivot. in the right direction. So Fadra, they get back in the Traders layer after the ceremony where they have five names. It's Bergey, it's MJ,

it's Kate, it's Parvety, and it's Shachal, able to get killed, murdered. And Fadra doesn't hold back when she's talking to her. She goes, hey, stop acting like an ice queen. Oh yeah, when they were meeting? Yeah. Then they started staring at it. Like, you, that was real tension. It was, it was

awkward, but like, it was more like, are they scrapping? Like, this is going down. I don't know how, but here's the thing. First of all, they're trying to look tough. Fadra, your makeup, you look like a clown, so you don't look tough. And then Parvite... I do not go so. Come on.

That eye make... Okay. I have a lot of ants. She's caking it on, for sure. She cakes on, like, my crazy Polish ants. She cakes it on. Oh, yeah. She does.

A lot of lipstick. It's like, if she gives you a kid a kiss on the cheek, they got to, like, wipe that shit off for days. Oh, yeah. Anyways, then Parvite's got those stupid headbands on. They're just glaring at each other. I'm like, this is the most... intimidating stare down of all time yeah no it was fun it was a real tension though um so it was like

when you and g disagree on something yeah guys like are all disagree like all staring at each other across the room it's super awkward we literally just had it michael witness the first one um did you guys tell him to keep eating his peas just like you uh that's what happens yeah you eat your peas kid mom and dad are getting there at the table i don't want to be next um all right so we know parvety's fate obviously but do you think there's anything she could have done to change the opinion of the house before this no she's not right she's a wrap that's the one thing about this game is like because you can't fight and because you're getting banished like when you're dead you're this is this is a lot like big brother just a little bit a lot of bit different but it's in the sense that the competitions

don't have a whole lot to do with you staying in the house 100% you can't you know like the shield can only hold you for so long yeah um some people that's what another reason another reason why the challenges the greatest game that you could ever play. Yeah, because you can be against the whole house. Everyone could want you gone, but you still get to defend yourself at the other day. I love it. I love it so much. Like the fact that the fact that no one can send you in on a technicality, you got to, you got to do it. You got to do it yourself. It's awesome. Okay, so they choose Bergey. Now, what did you think about this decision?

And do you think it's the best decision for each of them, for them collectively? Like, what did you think? I have some thoughts on it, but go ahead. I see at this point because they're both kind of out there the best kill needs to be someone that Fager's close with I agree I think taking out Bergey was a good move

in terms of decreasing the numbers but to me like the murders have been too much about the numbers which we've talked about it's not enough about throwing off the house it's a big problem in my opinion well that's why you know MJ or Chashal would have been a good good pick but go ahead I think it was the beginning

of episode 7 8 one of them but in this group of episodes. I think Peter says or somebody says, uh, Dan is the, or Parvety is a traitor and so is Fajara. Those are the only traders right now. The fact that the whole house already knows that. It does point to it being strictly about numbers. And there's a lot of game that we're not seeing. I personally think maybe not. But the kills, you need to kill people who are in your group. So, so Fadra should have killed Sheree or MJ a long time ago, but to keep the heat off of her. but I think she feels really protected by her group and doesn't want to go after her.

Well, that goes to your thing, which is they want to get there together when, like, this isn't a game that you can win together. It's not a game that you can win together. And if it is, then you should have recruited Shiree when you had the chance. Well, so all the faithfuls do win together. If they, if they're all there at the end, they split the money. If there's two traders there at the end, they split the money. Well, that's my point for, for, for, I'm, uh, Fager to kill Shiree is because like, like, you. Get rid of her because it's not going to look at it.

Unless you're going to recruit her. Which you had the chance. You had the chance to recruit her. Unless you're going to recruit her, you can't win with her. So you're going to bring her as long as possible, and you're just hurting your game, in my opinion, by not killing her. Ridiculous. To me, it was great.

But episode eight does start with CT wearing Austin Powers shirt. I saw that. You know what he looked like? He looked like a fruit by the foot, the tie-dye color one. He did. Yeah, he did. He looked like Chevy Chase and Vegas vacation. That was great.

So at breakfast, he literally, literally spills his tea or his hot water onto Choray. I don't know. It was funny because, like, I was like, is this implicating or is he, like, literally just nervous or? I think he's just early in the morning. Yeah, just groggy. Yeah, he's groggy, dude.

Fager walks in and immediately gets a kiss on the cheek. It's one of this, just right on the cheek from CT. He knows out of politics for sure. She calls Peter, Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock the dick. Yeah. That was great. She's on one that morning. Kate, in her interview, she goes,

all these people are trusted me. They shouldn't trust me. I throw them in the moat for like $10. She's funny, man. She kills me. She's great TV. She is great TV. She's not a great competitor.

I think she's an awesome faithful, but she's great TV. Yeah, no, I love it. It's funny, at first I didn't like watching her because I'm like, this girl's annoying. But then I realize, like, she literally is the dits of the house. And it's absolutely hysterical. And she's a bitch.

Yeah. Is she actually secretly smart? I think so. Lazy but smart. Yeah, I think she's secretly smart. It plays dumb. So at breakfast, we figure out it's Bergey, who got killed. Wolsey, what did you think of Berge's game?

I didn't think much about Bergey's game. Besides, he looked nervous all the time. Honestly, when you look at Bergey, you just saw him being Pete's shield, really. He just was a Pete's yes, man. Would you ever want to see him on TV again? How about he came on the challenge? What do you think? I mean, I don't know if he'd do really well on the challenge.

I don't think so. He looks really nervous. He does look nervous. Like a chicken. He'd have a tough time in that house. He barely had a... Chickens are nervous animals. He barely...

He probably craps like a geese. Bergey always has a diaper on, I feel like. I don't know if you've seen. He's got an attractive girlfriend. I don't know. I don't know. You wouldn't know. Yeah, you're not...

What was he from? Is he a bachelor? Love Island. Who casted him for a Love Island? I don't know. Ginger Edition. Yeah. Love Island, Ireland?

What? I'm Weston Bergman's clone here. Yeah. names Berge. Oh, dude. Make it less obvious. Yeah, West created, that was his first experiment. Failed.

So then he went and made, uh, Zara. Oh, man. So, getting the kinks out with this one. After, after breakfast. There's supposed to be a CT and West combo, and it came out burgy. And he was like, well, back to the drawing board. That's great.

Is it great? Yeah, because he made her, he made her. No, it's great because he literally made him a swimmer, too. So, we all started as swimmers, bro. After breakfast, Trishel makes a strong effort. to convince Peter to set his sights on Fadra.

She's right. Nothing she didn't bring up isn't true. Fadra is the worst at breakfast because everyone that comes in, she's like, oh, hey, oh, hi. So you thought that was legit? You thought, like, her reactions, like, she didn't look worried. Like, you thought that was a good callout? Trichelle? Yeah.

Well, what she said. Right. Yeah. And all the reasons why. I mean, here's the thing. Everything that she said is true, down to the eye twitch. I, like, like, sure. like, Fadra saying, I've never heard anyone say that.

How have you never heard anyone say that? I've watched it seven times already this episode. She does have a twitch. When she lies. Yeah, she does have a twitch. Yeah, and she has been like, I've never heard that bullshit. Well, she does a good job in that episode of turning the tables. I'm not frantic like you.

And like, she's a galvanizer. She is. Well, she's a lawyer. Yeah. She knows how to make an argument. She can lie. For sure. Lawyers, politicians.

So, John's. So, so MJ kind of exposed. this conversation that essentially, like, Peter goes to Parvety and tells her, hey, I don't think you're a traitor anymore, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you're just doing it to save his ass. MJ exposed to conversation.

Fager's stupid. Fadre tells Sherey and John, like, hey, like, you know, come on, guys, Peter's on some weird shit. In the car ride, Chichelles tells Parvety falsely that she doesn't necessarily believe she's a traitor. So they're going along with this thing. And they're, you know, they're selling it hard. Yeah.

That like, oh, yeah, no, we're not on you anymore, Parvety. Like, come on. You're, we're not stupid here. They pull up to the cabin where Dr. Will's waiting. What did you think about this? Dr. Will, it's like Willy Wonka. He does. There's Sandra again.

I know you, Dr. Will. Shut up. No, at all. I should go climb that tree, Ninja. Wow. Yeah. Talk about, like, confirming to the world your everything, every castmate said about you when she did that.

Anyways, this isn't about Ninja. this is about Sandra. No, it's not. So their daily missions to escape this cabin in the safe world. The safe word is haggis. First of all, if they give you a safe word, it's not going to be good. Just better make sure you can pronounce it. It's not von der Fluggen.

Vondervlugan. Play out the fluggenizer. I don't need a safe word. Not a club Vonder sex. So, yeah, if they escape or if they leave the cabin, they deduct $1,000 from their total, blah, blah, blah. They started out, they find out that they have to go through these tunnels and there's lights. It's a bunch of crazy shit. But it's nuts when they start bringing in the maggots and the roaches and the rats and the frogs.

What does you think about this? Would you be able to survive in this? I mean, I would do it. I would hate it. I would do it. I would never. I mean, here's the thing. I look at it like if CT did it and Trichelle did it.

Trishel won Fear Factor, dude. I could do that. I would hate it. I'd scream. It's not like I'd be like, yeah. pour some maggots on me. I would despise it and I'd be sick to my stomach and I would scream. I would not yell.

I would scream. Oh my gosh. I would probably cry, but I would do it. This is a nightmare. How about Kevin get stuck in there. He's like, I'm the only one. I can't do this guys. Just getting eaten by mice and roaches.

I can't even think about it. The worst part for me is the rats and the mice. I can do any of the roaches. Don't bother me. I would kill them if I saw them. I'd slap them. maggots are disgusting you've seen you've seen maggots in real life yes yeah yes no this this like you've seen maggots like you've opened the door and there's jemmy i mean maggots haven't seen jemmy i have

seen maggots so i guess i have seen jemmy um um no dude i uh this is my worst nightmare i would have been the first out of there for sure i would i would have been i would have been the big sissy the big pussy yeah the big wussy push the big whossey pus the big screen Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd have been, I'd have been, I'd have been embarrassed myself. Like I would embarrass myself, but I don't know if I would have walked out. Oh, no, I'm walking out and I don't care. Look, that's a funny thing is like, I think Fager's the second person to walk out of there. Dr. Will's like, you just cost your team $1,000.

Like, dog, she pisses $1,000. You think she gives up fuck. There's maggots and there's spiders and whatever the crazy shit. Honestly, I wish Dr. Will was actually a member of this show. I wish she was on the show because he's a great TV. Yeah. Does he have a good season? I don't know.

Because I thought Dan would, but apparently, and I thought Janelle would, but Big Brother players don't apparently do well. When did he go on Big Brother? Was he before, Dan, after? Well, was on Dr. Will was on season two. Oh. And then he came, he won season two. Oh, he looks good. He must be old.

I think he's like maybe 50. Oh, yeah. He looks great. Yeah. He really does. He looks 37, 38. Well, he's a, I think he's a plastic surgeon, isn't he? Oh, that makes sense.

I don't know. His hair, maybe his face, his hair does. and not look 37. No, no. It's like white white. Yeah. He's whitewashed. Anyways, he won season two, I believe.

If I'm wrong about that, I'm sorry, but I believe it was season two. Then he came back on season seven, which was like an all-star season, and he got ousted right away because everyone was afraid of it. Dude, it's funny. He helped up with Janelle, I think, back in the day, too. Oh, that's a nice one. I think. I'm not sure.

So look, it's actually funny. It's making me think, like, how, like, NBA players compare, like, you know, like people in the 70s and 80s to people now. And it's like, you know, like, they think, oh, he was the best player ever, but like you get into this game. And it's like, right now the TV is totally passed you by. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure.

Okay. So, MJ Fadre first to leave. I don't care. I'm quitting this. CT gives Trichelle opportunity to get the shield. So she's good there. Which is huge. Yeah, it is huge.

After the mission, John, apart of the T gets emotional with John. I hated that. Yeah, it was weird. I hated it. But it was good acting. He sniffed her out. Yeah, it was great acting, but was it? Maybe it wasn't.

Not really. But here's the thing. It's great acting if you can make yourself cry. Yeah. That's pretty cool. I don't have that in the repertoire. I got it, but you know, you got to... You can make yourself cry at any point?

I mean, you got to prep it, but yeah. If you gave me an hour and a half, I might be able to make myself cry. I would just... Yeah, but I don't know if I could do it, like, on the spot. That was pretty impressive. It was. So let's go to the roundtable where Chichelle kind of... starts what I call the battle of the berets.

Treschelle. She's shown them stupid hats. Here's the thing. That sets the vibe for the whole season. Yeah. You know. That trade tests. So,

Chichelle's first argument was Fadre hasn't reacted at breakfast and she isn't worried about being murdered. Which is tough to say. I don't really. That's a hard way to say. But it is true. Kate loved it when she's like, I'm not frantic like you.

Kate loved it. She was, she was in love that. Trishal then explains that Dan wanted to give the house some traitor blood. Kevin chimes in about the Twitch. and of course Trishel jumps on board

so Shreshell brought that up before she brought it up when she was explaining to other people like Twitter stuff she brought the Twitch up yeah and I noticed the Twitch on

like the first or second episode I thought ooh there's a towel if I played poker that would be a red flag yeah but I don't

because I don't gamble so when CT he kind of sets the table on fire when he has John his opinion and then John gets everybody on board how about that

CT was like yeah here's what I think John John does John has eloquent speeches. He does. He knows how to say something worded the right way. Better than I can. He's articulate. I'm not. Yeah.

Whatever, John. Whatever, John sucks. A mistress of murder. Yeah. Just using words. English accent, dude. And he probably read a lot of books. Yep. You would hope. You would hope. So during the voting, Parvety's banished. I know I love C.T.'s line

which is like, I'm not, I'm looking for traders, not looking for love. He voted for Parvety. Yeah, he did. He did. But here's the thing. Parvety and Fadre both threw votes at each other. That to me is a telltale sign, kind of, because they're both throwing votes at each other. They're the two that are up.

I don't know. I kind of, I mean, I think in Fadra's defense, you want Parvety there, don't you? Because isn't she the more obvious, less protected traitor? Becoming the only, well, I don't know. good point. I don't know. That's the thing is I'm so confused now because things I think of now, well, that makes more sense.

Wouldn't you want another trader there so you're not the only one? I would personally let the other trader make every decision. In this particular case. Who do you want? And I would always want it to be someone who is close to me so everyone would, oh, you know, but then it's too many people that are close to you. Now you're Hillary Clinton. People got to die.

Yeah. She personally knows 275 people that committed suicide. It's a lot of people to know they killed himself. So to answer that question, no. I think like if you're Fadra, you don't necessarily want her there because the idea would be you'd get to replace them

and if you're really, really careful about who you choose to recruit. So you actually, when there's only one trader, you do get to replace them automatically because she knows that. So you know what I like that? It's like, get rid of her.

Yeah, let me make my own choice. Once you pull a bandaid off a couple of times, it's not really staying on anymore. That's kind of what she probably felt like Parvety was at that point. Get rid of that band. Let me get a new band. Let me get a brand new bandit.

It's going to stay on straight. But those two going at each other, I'm like, man, being a trader comes down to being shady. It does. That's the only way you can win is if you're being shady. So, uh, Fadra is awarded an ultimatum. She chooses Kate. So what did you think about that? I think, I think Kate is an obvious choice because I don't think she's the best choice.

I would have picked John. You'd have picked John. I think so. Okay. I like John. So here's what I have right here. Because I just feel like, I don't know. I think Kate's, again, very close to her, right?

Because they're kind of on that east side. And that's something that we said is why would you choose somebody who has your back? Why would you to be a traitor? They're already a number for you. Yeah. And there are a number that can, you know, can die. I think. I think I would pick John because John had suspicions towards Fadre as well.

John would have been my pick, I think. I like John. This is what I have. She can't pick CT because they're too close. Well, to me, I think CT is one of, if not the perfect pick besides Peter. So for me, it's either Peter or CT. I think Peter's a good option because he's a perfect shield. People are already on him and he either dies.

Yeah, he doesn't get the option this time. He has a die. The ultimatum is a big deal. Winner go home. Yeah. We're going home Pete. And then with CT, he might be better because he has everyone's ear and he has everyone's ear and he's known for essentially playing his own game.

He's not going to play his game based on his friends. So how creepy Fadro was when she was like, I think you're smart. I think you're clever. I think you're a crazy cool killer with me. I was like, if some girl asked you on a date in that same energy, you'd be like, stage seven clinger. No. You would.

I would say sex is probably awesome. Yeah, until you end up in her trunk. Put me in the trunk, Phaedra. She's a type of girlfriend where like, you're like, I love her guys. But if I ever end up missing, check the. trunk of her car. Yeah, and her house and her condo. Yeah.

All of it. Why do you have this extra room with three freezers back here, babe? I hunt ox in the wintertime. Okay, so, look, I also kind of feel like Kate's innocence and humor is like what makes her likable. Like a fair attitude. She's just like, oh, whatever. It only works if you're not a traitor.

Right. Yeah. Once you're a traitor, that's it. You're anxious. You know what I mean? But she, I mean, she had me, here's the thing. She wasn't given a choice. It's like, do you want to stay in the game?

Or do you want to go home? And you want to stay in the game. Yeah. That's why if you're going to go for John, if you're going to go for Peter again, like now is the only time because that was going to be another. Is there anyone in the house that would choose to die? No, right? Of course, no.

I mean, do you ever play a game and choose to lose? Like here, you can either play or you can lose. Yeah, you can switch positions or you can lose. What a weird thing. So, yeah, so I love how Kate's asking about, like, oh, yeah, like what happened before and she's uh she's describing dan as toast with no butter or jam yeah that's funny that was great um he's not gonna like being on the podcast no well he doesn't have to know that so i sitting outside with a fucking uh cup on the wall listen to you talk shit about him

and how i think he's the greatest really television show competitor of all time hey if he listened to the show which is free on youtube you would know how we feel about him okay so uh we'll wrap this up real soon. So how do you think Fager handled the situation? Because right after breakfast, she had a conversation with CT and then Trishal like comes in. This is the night after she tried to murder her. Like how do you think she handled that? Like, I think she's doing well. I think that it's, I think it's tough once the bloodhounds start sniffing at you, right? It's really hard to turn

the attentions a different direction. And that's what I'm seeing is she's doing the best she can with her experience as a lawyer. you know, as a basketball wife, I'm sure there's a lot of lying that goes into that career. Oh, who was she married to? Wasn't she on housewives of something? Oh, she's in a basketball?

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But yeah, no, I'm sure. Maybe I have her show wrong and I'm an asshole, yeah, but. There's some dramatic. I think she's doing the best she can with the hand she's dealt at this point.

But also, I don't think Parviti was the best other, they should have picked someone else and that would have kept her cleaner. So that's the danger of letting someone else play their game, right? Like, I think she did a good job of letting other people make the choices as a traitor.

And then like steer them in the direction, but make them think it's their choice. Yeah, make them, make them think it's their choice. Because now she might not have picked Parvety. You know what I mean? She definitely wouldn't know. I don't think that's her idea. Yeah, so CT before the daily mission, he come,

I'm sorry, Peter before the daily mission comes up to CT and says, hey, like, who you're leaning? He looks from right in the dead in the eye and goes, you, bro. You. Do you think CT is not doing a good enough job of like kind of understanding that Pete has been right for the most part of this game? or he knows exactly what he's doing. I think C.T. knows what he's doing.

I think everyone said Peter's name and C.T. jumped on that bandwagon. I just think that he's playing the numbers. Yeah, he's playing the numbers. Whether he's wrong or right, he's safe because he's playing heart with open heart and on to start. Right. When in reality, he's puppet master. Oh, for sure. So the Daily Mission, they go to this church.

It's kind of eerie. It's kind of weird. They have to shoot a crossbow through these stained glass windows. And this is where Fager made her huge mistake. Talk about it. She should have just kept going in the order because... Even if they lose all the money. Even if you want to lose all the money. But you already...

Treschelle already made a play for you. So you reversing the order when it was clear that with what everyone was doing she was going to be safe, they were all spot on with this. Fajer, that was a huge mistake. It made you look like a traitor. Even if it was Sandra who brought it up. Mm-hmm. So they spent...

It either means you're a trader or you're working with a trader. Mm-hmm. Because why would... Like, if... Why would you care? So the logic was that Sandra, or sorry, the logic was they had taken seven shots at CT and lost whatever, two grand or whatever. And for that reason, okay, I'm going to try to go for Shoshal. If you can sell that and you feel like you can sell that, to me, it's like, I want to make sure I stay in line.

I'm not doing anything that can be misconstrued as something going against the group, even if Sandra brought it up. In fact, it kind of gives you an opportunity to hold Sandra in check and be like, no, like, we'll just do the fair thing. Right. Missed the opportunity for her. So, yeah, so C.T. This is something that, like, if someone else does it, it could be brought up at the roundtable. But C.T.

Whenever Allen asked him if he wants a shield, he goes, yeah, shoes are cool. Shoes are nice. If it's anyone else doing that, it's getting brought up at the roundtable. Like, why didn't you want to shield? Why didn't you? Why, what, you're not afraid of dying? You're not afraid of being banished? That is true.

So. That is a huge point. But he's, like, that's what I'm saying. He's getting away with a lot. Yes. A lot of things that other people. wouldn't. Yeah. Maybe because they trust them. And look, we know, we know CT's an actor. That's true. He's a, I always forget that. He's a train. Hey. Welcome back to the Zach Nichols podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Mr.

Zach Nichols. And we hear it with us is the hardest person to get in the studio. It's like trying to get friggin' Whitney Houston after she died in the studio. That's not true. Yeah, we're giving me a bad runway already. I just got to. We've reached out to you since we found out you were on treaters. We were am. We were at. I was Sam, too. And then I get this email, and it's like back and forth, right? It's been chaotic. And listen, you don't know us. You don't, you know.

The reason I'm here is because I'm close with Pierre's cousin. And he sent me a text. Like, we do my cousin's podcast. I'm like, for sure. And then things kind of, it's just crazy, right? Right. And then I email Pierre. He's like, oh, I didn't think you wanted to come on because we were bashing on an episode.

I didn't even hear the episode. So, like, I'm coming in front. Listen, there's some. We bash everyone. There's some. Here's the thing. We bashed. me for episodes. Yeah, no. There's some timeline things going on, but the fact is, is you're here

in studio. I'm excited to be here. Mr. Dan Giesling. I love the studio audience, by the way. Thank you, man. They come every single time. It's a lot of people. So, thanks for coming through, man. Congratulations on being on the brand new season of Traders, which you were the star for a couple weeks. How was that experience as a whole before we dive in? It was, you know what? Going there playing was awesome. Like I feel like I'm the luckiest guy. I'm a normal guy. I get to go do something like that and come home to normal life. But after was really the shock for me. Like when we were there, everyone got along, you know, like you make moves against each other. And then you, I get out. And it's like, man, people are firing bullets at each other. Now, maybe I was naive. I just didn't

expect this after stuff because it wasn't like that when we were there at all. Right. So here's my question. Yeah. I watched both the, season's a big brother. Okay. In the last year, because I didn't watch Big Brother until in the last year. I got, you know, I started watching Pauline and Josh. And so I went back to people like, you got to watch this season, you got to watch that season.

And if I'm not mistaken, your last season, a Big Brother was in 2012. It's been a while. So social media has also changed. It's just a little bit. That's the biggest point we made is I was like, things have changed a lot since you were last on TV. And I think one of the biggest ones is that there's people who have done numerous shows, right you did the two seasons of big brother

and then disappeared did you ever get asked to do anything else yeah yeah i would get pitched probably a show a year show every other year and it's just like no no like i don't want to do amazing race because it's not me like okay i met my aspirations were never to go and do the next show

for me it was as a kid i saw a big brother i loved it i love survivor that's what was like my true love but i'm like i'm not gonna survive 40 days i'm not star star yeah you're real with yourself yeah but i'm like big brother, I'm like, the dude that I saw win, I'm like, he's not athletic. He just can out think people. And I'm like, I can do that. So I get on. I win and then I get invited again.

And it was fun. But I don't, I didn't want to do, like the challenge reach out. I don't want to do that. You got the reach out. Yeah. You got a call from the challenge. Yeah. And I've never, I've never seen it. But my impression of it is that it's like big brother with alcohol. And I just see clips of dudes with black helmets on just mashing each other's brains out. I'm like, you guys saw me walk in like your two-year-old son is the same size. No. You know, He's dense. He is dense. I'll give you that. He's a big kid. But like I give you a lot of, first of all, like that is a call that people die for and like really, really yearn for. So the fact that you turned it down says a lot about you and it was a long time ago. I mean, it was like, whatever. Ten years ago, whatever it is. I mean, you're still going to do the opportunities that are right for you. That says a lot about your character. Well, I mean, I don't know about that. I think I'm just self-aware. You know, like, I got an email for the traders last season. I read like the first two sentences delete. Because like I don't, to me for to come back, like, I got to understand what's going on. And the first. first season of traders you read the description you're like eh and then you watch the show and you're

like it's incredible yeah i mean the the everything cinematography it was amazing and so them when they it is a cool project to be a part of yeah it was it felt special and different but most importantly it was the game yeah and i'm like this is a new game it's not what i'm comfortable with but i want to give it a shot did you feel pressure because of your success on big brother to be a traitor um because i feel like if you go in saying you're not you're saying you you want to be a trader, you're a gamer. Because that's a tough role. It was a lot harder than I thought,

but I didn't want to come out of retirement and sit on the sidelines. And I just felt like if you're a faithful, like you're just waiting to get picked off. Oh, yeah. And this all makes sense because it's not about the money. It's not necessarily about the money for you. You choose games that you want to play that you think you can win.

If it was about the money for you, you'd have done Amazing Race, you would have done Survivor. You would have done the challenge. Just get the check, right? But you would just want to. You want to go and you want to compete. Well, don't get me wrong because I still got to work. But to me, I'm not saying you're, yeah, I'm just saying.

The money's got to be right for me to even get in the door. Gotcha. And because I just think I would, if I got chose to be a trader, I'd be like, at first I thought I would love it. Now I know I know I would probably not be good at it. I don't know. I just, there's too many angles for me. And there's no, hey, you still got to take me out and eliminate it. That's where I was like, you got to take me out, right?

I like that about the challenge. But I also think I could be a good faithful because I'm really good. at riding that line and just kind of staying out of everyone's hair. Being a traitor, it seems so difficult because not only you trying to work with someone, you're also trying to jockey with that other trader to be like, hey, eventually one of us is going to get found out. And not only I'm working with you, but I got to make sure that when they do start to get the got our trail, they're sniffing your ass, not mine.

Yeah, it's me and you. Right. Sorry, Pierre. You're the first one to go. Because it's, and I've seen a few of the season. I haven't seen them all. but at some point a trader has to go right it's not like all three traders

are all four they're not making it to the end right so it's just for me that one of the shocks was that when you make that move like people on social media didn't understand that it wasn't a petty move like that's not how I play like I'm not making a move to be petty I'm making a move because you're in my way to win

yeah well I don't think we thought I don't think we hated it on the move again you did because you love favor I did and And I'll get into my reasons. I was like, you're scrambling here because here's like, you're scrambling here.

So I understood the get a traitor out because then I understood that. Of course. That wasn't your mistake. Your mistake was not committing to something sooner. Right. Yeah. No, my,

my issue was, I think my issue was is like, like, we're like, we're like, we're like, whenever, whenever you're out,

you know, whenever you got like, six, but it's six. Okay. I got another, thank you. It's another credit to how long you were there.

So like, to me, I didn't feel the preparation and setting it up. So it seemed like it was, you're going home, bro, regardless. Like you're not last, you're not winning this game, in my opinion. Like, like you're, you're, you're just not going to. So to take her down with you, I did not like it. You know, I did not like it. And I thought that she had played a great game. And that was the only sense of just a little chink in her armor. Look, it's like a windshield here in Michigan, right? Yeah. There's a small crack. But then the

wintertime is going to get a real cold and it's going to crack fast. So like, I just didn't like that part. But, but, um, I get it. But you're making the. assumption that I'm going to that roundtable and I'm thinking I'm dead. Like you said you watched the last two scenes and Big Brother. There's times when like my backs against a wall, but I'm never thinking I'm out of this game. And so even though things were like rocky, I'm like, okay, I can pin these things on Fadra. If this works, I'll see at the end of the game. It just didn't work out.

You had too many people that were her friends. I waited too long. Yeah, you waited too long. And like I said, and I really thought that the mistake on your part, because giving them Trader Blood is 100% what you had to do to stay in the game. I thought using maybe, hey, maybe Parvardi was the one, Parvarty was the one that gave you the cup or that gave the cup, like maybe throwing something that because it's a legit thing.

Yeah. That people still haven't figured out to this day. Yeah. Plan a seed like that. Yeah. But you never. I mean, listen, this is like, no, no, it was like retrospective.

It was, it was, it was a lot harder than I thought. But talking about that, one thing that shocked me was that when Alan came it and it was like someone's been poisoned we don't know who yet no one stepped back and said hey did someone give you a cup did someone give you a plate that was never discussed and I was like that would be the first thing I would say is a faithful and it just kind of slipped by but the game was so fast and I never really adapted well to it I think so we've been covering three episodes at a time and obviously we're watching it in real time and like first episode yeah I'd love to be a traitor I think it'd be good at second yeah no this is getting tough he came in a day like dude I do not

I couldn't be a straighter out. No, I couldn't. I don't think it would be the stress. It would be keeping my lies straight, number one. But also there's like a, you probably watched Surrey do it. Yeah. Look, she made it look at her. Masterclass.

So it's like you have to push, push, push, but have someone being like, I'm the, like almost what Bergey did with, like Berge would have been, if Bergey was a traitor, he'd been playing perfect because he was letting Pete do everything, do everything. And he was there too, but it was Pete. And then he got to back off. Yeah. And you know, and then, and, but Surrey made it look easy. and it just there's too many angles for me without the ability to just for me it was always like well

fuck it i'm going into elimination round and you got to get me out that way that always was comforting but i would be a good faithful i would just suck it being a traitor um but we got to talk about this because this was what got me so fired up and probably so critical on you later in the game was first of all like they say a lot of times like if they talk about the best big big brother player of all time your name always gets brought up round of applause for dan keesling regardless they always are going to bring you up so I'm fired up

and you're from Michigan big Michigan I mean I'm from Michigan so I always want to root for the people from Michigan and then you eliminated bananas very first you didn't even give this guy who's got more reality television experience than anybody else probably besides flavor flay and you got rid of him first and so everyone including

me and him were like dude Dan came out of retirement with a fucking rocket ship shoved up his ass yeah dude like this guy came in and said I'm like because Johnny just got done. Did you watch House of Villains? No, I don't watch a ton of things. It was a little bit more like silly, like slapstick summer camp type thing.

Yeah. But Johnny ran the game and he played mental games with everyone. So he's coming hot off of that. And here you come. You're like, I'm not even going to give you a chance to open your mouth. Boom. See ya. You know that hurt him.

But that's the thing. I don't think like that. I don't think like, let me hurt your feelings. I'm thinking, okay, here's a dude that's won seven, eight shows. Yeah, seven. Don't give me. Whatever. And on top of that, he's got to.

boy in there with him, CT. One of them has to go. And at that point, you have limited time. I connected a little bit more of CT where I'm like, okay, he seems like a little bit more even keeled. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I see bananas at this round table. I'm thinking we're good and it just all of a sudden throws a curveball. And like, so to me, this, the way I look at is if I'm coming after you day one, it's out of respect. It's because. No, for sure. Yeah. But I, that was not. That message was not received. I don't think someone who, like we all know Johnny loves the light. He loves the shine of the cameras.

You sent him home before he even got to wear his second outfit. Are you kidding me? That absolutely destroyed him. He actually almost had some emotion in his forehead. You know what I'm saying? It's like you're in the way of winning. Like, I may like you, but if you're in my way. And I liked him.

And that was the thing for me. I get out and it's like blasted me. I'm like, bro, I thought we were cool. But, you know. I know what you're saying. And I knew as soon as you did that, Like, you know. It's not person.

It's not to you, but to him, that was literally the worst thing you can do to Johnny is get rid of him first. That is like, it's so funny. So everyone was like, holy shit, Dan is here to play. And I think then it just got like kind of like anyone who's in that position. You have to deal with so many conversations coming at you and you have to be careful what you say. And I almost think your mind was like the less I give them, the less they're going to suspect me. But then it was like, until you didn't. give them anything. Then they're like, well, shit. The only

person who's not tag teaming or jumping on a bandwagon was Dan. And that's what kind of kills you. And that's where I was like, it was just so no offense, it was anti-clomatic. Yeah. Like, because I was, I literally, because I mean, dude, you fixed your own funeral on national TV. It's hard to top. You were

in New York Times. Like, they literally, there was a, I mean, there's an article that said, best big brother player ever. So we're all like, here, we go, grab your popcorn and you go, I got a secret. But I'll tell you guys tomorrow at 1.30 in the afternoon. Can't tell you, but I definitely have it all. I'm going to sleep on it a little bit. I'll sleep on it a little bit.

But you know what you did? The wave that you created when you threw up both the other traders is now it just gave them hell to deal with. But that what my intention was the whole my whole strategy once, because when I come into one of these situations, I have a really slow burning game and I get to. Which is smart. But like I'm just not the person to walk in a room with 20 people and fight and like to talk. I like, I'm one on one. one couple people at a time.

So I did that. But my move was to be quiet so that you never, like I don't know the saying, but the more quiet you are, the more respected when you talk. Like I'm not throwing crazy theories out there. Your words mean more when there's when there are few and far. That's what I was trying to build up. That plays into my personality. And then so I thought, okay, hey, I'm a quiet, faithful when I say a name and if I

prove to them that I get it right as a traitor, why wouldn't they listen to me the rest of the game. I just, you know, I didn't execute it well. I think it was timed late. And to me, that's only part of it. The other part is some of these players are dogs. Like, Fadra carved me up. My next question was literally going to be reality TV, do you feel like it's gotten more savage? The savagery has gone way up since you, because since you left reality TV, you know, people have stolen a million dollars from a partner. People have, you know, done a lot of backstabbing things, whereas maybe it wasn't, don't you feel like the original idea of reality TV was a fun-loving slapstick comedy summer camp type thing and now it's become just

almost like a savage game everything you know I think well the first two times I was on reality TV is with like civilians I guess that's the term like just no that's fine that's actually yeah like everyone starts out as a civilian yeah random this one like seasoned vets you know and I I never thought that I never thought took that into account like fader's been on TV your whole right and we didn't either it's like we're thinking this guy he he's one you're right right. He's one big brother twice, almost. Second once, one, first, I mean, either way, that's tough to do. Big brother's tough. But at the same time, it's like, you're right. You did great twice, but you have those two, two times. Everyone else has played this game or been on TV year after

year after year against other reality television. They've been sharp, steel, sharp and steel, so, or iron on iron. Yeah, I got, I got two things. So number one, I want to ask you the rumor directly, Okay. Did you demand that you had to be a traitor to come on the show? No. So the way it worked is when they pitched me, I'm with, you know, the two showrunners. And they're like, hey, what do you want to be faithful or a traitor? I'm like, look, I'm not coming out of retirement to be a faith. We're like, well, we can't promise you that. The other thing they told me is they're like, hey, this is not. Like, what's your strategy? I'm like laying it out da da da da da. They're like, Dan, this is not that kind of game. This is a much faster game. I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Like, like, I got this.

So they, like, told me what I was going to do is not going to work. So anyways, I didn't know. Then like the day before we get put in the castle, the head of NBC and the head of Studio Lambert walk in. And they're like, hey, do you want to be a faithful or a traitor? The head of NBC? Well, NBC unscripted. Well, for sure. Either way. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm in my pajamas. Like, I didn't expect. I'm like, what? Like, you just normally get a heads up if they're coming. And they're like, what do you want to be?

And I pitched them on why I should be a traitor. And they started laughing. And I'm like, so I'm a traitor. And they're like, we don't know yet. I go, what do you mean? We don't know yet. We're about to go in the castle tomorrow. And then they said they didn't decide until like the final 15 hour before you know that's wild yeah because i'm i'm sure it's not just it's a lot of people have to see the picture see the interviews they ship them back to the uh headquarters and then there's a table of people who watch it all it's not just two people making that decision they put a lot of thought into it right but i mean i think you were the obvious choice i mean i just i was so glad i had the opportunity to do that because otherwise it could

have worked out like you know your buddy where i could have been the first one bounced and at least for me like you love you already say his name your body yeah we have the reunion to shoot so like give a shot oh like we i leave tomorrow to go shoot the reunion thanks for making time for us man no no thanks for unions are fun if you i mean you're just going to have to talk to bananas for a little bit he's gonna put but here's a thing he's a performer here's thing i i like all the the hard thing for me was in big brother there's people you're like man i can't wait to get this person out of here like they're you know like you're grinding me i liked everyone there bananas included fadre like i liked everyone so it was a little

shock to me to see everyone's so upset for sure well that was the second thing I was going to say like in today's day and age especially with the challenge talking shit and really literally trying to embarrass someone else is part of the name of the game but for me it's not to me and I think

like I'll play these games I'm going to play as hard as I can against you but I'm not going to rip on you where you're from your family like that's just not me right and so I know that's probably the antithesis I was brought up in a different type of reality television MTV and CBS We talked about a lot, especially with CBS.

I've been through that. Like, people always come at me, but that's just not me. You know, like, that's not who I am. Yeah, no, I have a mouth on me. I have a sharp tongue. So I fit well into that challenge group, so much so that production hates me. Yeah. So Janelle, who you played Big Brother with, right?

She comes on this show hot, just super selfish and always going for Shield. She was like, but it's not about. But it's not selfish. That's who she is. She just wants to win. everything at all times, regardless of how it will look from a strategic standpoint. That's who she is. Hey, look, I don't got a problem with it.

I love when she boxed out, I can sue for this. She put her hip on hip and she made sure she was getting that shield. But that's why she's never won a show. That's why she gets closest because I think she makes herself too big of a target. Always. I mean, she's always going to be a huge target. But the difference with her is she can win her way out of a lot of situations. Oh, yeah.

But when you win that much, people start to see it, you know. Yeah, no. Big Brother is a game I would, I'd be gone like second or first probably. I would suck at Big Brother. Well, I like, don't be wrong. Like there's something really, really that you just love about someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. Their problem is if you wear your heart in your sleep and you're wrong that that backlash, that wave, I remember where you said that wave comes back hard. Like when it comes back, it comes back. And she would have been a big asset to this house had she stuck around. Same thing with Johnny had he stuck around. But you made sure both of them didn't last as long as you. that's the thing when jeanelle came at me'd be like you guys going at each other like really like i thought we had this understanding of like no matter what i'm not murdering janelle like it's just

not happening if her name comes up just because we'd played together you know we're friends in real life it just feel like it went until the very end so when she came at me i was just like i got it like i not mad at her but i was just like yeah there was other people we could have went kind of yeah i mean that's kind of the thing with friends a lot of times is you play the game and it's like okay who's going to make the first move yeah and he didn't expect it. And I wouldn't either. If me and Zach are on a show together, I'm kicking his ass. Right away.

No. So, have you been watching since you've been off? Yeah, yeah. It's been a different experience, though, because in Big Brother, you're not, you don't have to watch it. When you get off, it's over. Because it's live. Well, most, not you, I mean, everyone else has to watch it. Maybe in your case, and, you know,

Cody and Nicole, a few other people, but jury, what's the jury? It's the great. or else can watch a majority of the season. I don't even know what a jury is. So this was like, you know, I was bummed. I didn't win, right? Like, to me, it's like win or failure. And then you get over it and then the show is not airing.

So you're like, okay, I'm over it. It's like I did my best. Yeah. And then the show airs and you're like, okay. And then another week comes and it's like every week you're reliving. Like, man, here's my list of 15 things. I wish I would have done different. Let me add number 16.

Oh, yeah. But so it was a humbling experience for sure. Well, I mean, like we said. you know, 12 years since you were on TV, which is crazy to me because, I mean, I guess you were, were you married when you got into reality television? First one, no, second one, yes. Yeah, because that's when it starts to get tough

when you got to leave wife and kids. And I understand saying no to everything else when you have wife and kids, because I've said no to everything. And I had a lot more time as a single person. But yeah, I just think, like, it's, I mean, I guess, you know, it's been a while. Well, it's awesome to see, like,

I know what you're going to say, you're going to say, what? Dude, how come they're inviting you after 10 years? No, no. No, not at all. He was hyped. He was. I was like, this guy's going to kill him.

No, no, no, that is definitely not. It's, in fact, he made a very big point to say, like, look at all these reality TV stars that are coming back. And we're seeing it in the challenge where, like, a lot of these older cats are coming back. And, like, no, no, we're all for it because you guys are what made reality TV so great in the first place. Well, the thing that's mind-blowing to me is that it took. So Sharon Vaughn, who's ahead of NBC unscripted, she's the first person to take, like, known entities that maybe have been dormant. but people know and like and at least. So smart.

And put them in the same show. Like, how is this never happened? It really like what? The contract, a lot of the contracts that people have to sign. You have exclusivity, this and that. Yeah, but usually like a year, right? Right. Yeah, I mean, but you're right.

It's crazy that it's taken this long to get this. Did you play against any big brother people? I played against Pauly. Okay. I played against Josh. Help me with this. Natalie. Natalie.

Natalie. Natalie. That's the one I always remember. Oh, Victor. Natalie. Natalie Negrotti. She was on... She's Venezuelan, right?

My grandma is from my... I mean, we haven't played, but we've interviewed a few big brother people as well, too. Yeah. How do you think that game corresponds to... I know you haven't watched a ton of the challenge, but traders or... You don't watch the challenge? I haven't watched anything. The only thing I watched after, so, like, CT told me about this backpack thing.

You never saw that? I never saw that. What do you think when you saw it? Oh, I was just like, bro, like, I saw CT as a kid on Real World. Paris. And he was like, and like all these things. And I met him in real life.

I'm like, this dude's so chill. And it's like, you know, and then when I went and saw that clip, I'm like, that's how I remember CT. And when I met him,

that's what I expected. Yeah. But he's like, you know. It takes a while to get him angry and Johnny had been doing that for years. Trust me. And also like,

yeah, like the first time I met CT was in the airport for rivals too. And same thing. He was, that's, he got enough, that next day he got in a fight

with like seven people in the pool. But when I met him, he came out to me, gave me like a dapped it up, hug. We had a meal. He was really cool. And I'm like, what's going on here? Is he like, I don't think I understand. Because I don't understand.

I've never watched challenges. Is he like Mount Rushmore challenge or is he just well respected in like the MTV? He is the, the challenger of challenger. He's the guy. He is him and the Mount Rushmore, him and bananas are always there. But I think people would give CT the nod.

Really? Because even though he's won less, his game he does it's almost like the babe ruth effect or the bow jackson effect ct like the backpack thing yeah when you have that type of allure to your game yeah people are gonna always like johnny wins but johnny wins like cal ripkin won you know like they're doing the work playing a lot of playing a lot of game c t has those home run hits those iconic moments those iconic moments that become like folk tale like him putting bananas on his back like i watched it live um when it happened on the show and I just remember as it happened

I didn't even notice myself standing up staring at the TV like it was because like strapping another human to your back even if they're less weight than you you just see him like and then he gets him and I'm like that takes some Herculane strength well that's interesting to me because CT to me seems so

like humble he is like yeah like you saying that he's the guy I'm like that's interesting because versus the other he's like a mystical creature on the challenge really he's but so it's like super well revered Everyone loves. Oh, yeah. So, like, from a fan perspective, like, as I talk to a lot of fans, if you ask somebody to say their Mount Rushmore, the probability that he's not on it.

If you name four guys is zero, zero percent. You know, it's just a matter of one, two, three, or four. Got it for a lot of them. And most of the times, I even. That intimidating CT, that's who it was. But as he, like, got more and more respected in the game, he almost became more and more like that, like, just really awesome. Like, brutal, like. Uncle.

Yeah. Who will teach you things and. help you with things, but then it'll take you in the backyard and beat you like 11-0 and pick up. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's a great perspective. So he's super.

I mean, the show is super likable. Like there was no one there that didn't. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, C-T is great. Before we get into being a traitor in some of the rules, I have a question.

So when it comes to Johnny, it was, did he do something in the house that was like charismatic or did he do anything where you're like, man, this guy's just too likable? Or you're just looking at the numbers and saying one of these guys got to go. No, there's a couple things. one, I didn't like that it was him in CT, right? Like, to me, that's an issue. Like, that they could run the whole thing. So one of them's got to go, number one.

Number two, he won a lot. Number three, interacting with both. I'm like, one of these guys got to go. Who could I see myself working with? Who have I connected more with? And you're from Michigan, so you chose not the California kid. And it was like, it's like, who do I think is going to be more unpredictable? And it's him.

And so, like, at that point. And the other thing, too, that played a factor is he didn't get a, shield and I'm like how many times is this cat not gonna have a shield because I know he could probably snap his fingers and get it whenever he wants and if there's a this may be my only shot to get him yeah he could have been safe on his first uh challenge on uh house of villains but he gave that up too because I think he sees it as a smart move but at the same time you got to think of it as like johnny you're damn near the king of reality TV like you're not going for the shield you need to be more on like Janelle's vibe right because she was scared I mean she was scared because

like listen she's known as a gamer she's known as the girl who wins a lot of competitions and she does yeah and so her going for the shield i get it it was super selfish and a little bit overzealous for sure yeah see i love that i'm like when i saw her do that i'm like these you wouldn't do it no heck no because i think it's a bad strategic move oh it's terrible but watching her do that and then seeing the reaction i'm just like this is watching janelle like in the wild this is what she did her natural habitat yeah it was hilarious because like you would never not knowing Johnny or not knowing the challenge you would never understand

the audacity he would say like the audacity for you to kill me first and we're like we're over here like of course like that guy is going to be the most offended person on earth and you're just like not understanding like I guess I can relate because it's really important to him but the thing is is like

I never heard from him so it's like hey like he never mess to me like hey why did you do that it was just like no he was writing tweets and he has listen it was like baby bam Johnny writes tweets and he saves them so that he just has them to copy and paste and release them. He puts them in his notes and he fires

him off. So this, and I don't take anything personal. And I haven't, like I saw him in New York, we said like, hi-bye. He posted a picture of all you guys, you put a clown over your face. That's Johnny. Here's what I think. This is my, and I haven't talked, I'm sure, after the reunion, I'll find out everything. I think it's like wrestling, K-fabe. That's how

I'm taking, meaning like, hey, we're wrestling, we're going at each other, like when the show's over, like, you know, wrestling's real, but it's not. And so I'm thinking like when the show is over, he's going to be like, hey, dude. He's a showman. Johnny's being like Connor McGregor. Yeah.

That's what I'm assuming. I think so, too. But here's the thing. If you ever see him around a bunch of cameras, he's going to do anything he can to embarrass you and send you home first. Hell hath no fury like a scorn banana. He says that himself. And it's true. But I'll tell you that.

I don't have to worry about that. Yeah. If you don't go back, you have to worry about it. No, well, he didn't do it to me, you know? Not yet. What do you think I'm going back to play any other games now? What if you go back? What if you both go back for another traders?

That'd be interesting. Yeah. You bet now that's what you really got to send back. For real. But see, that's to me. That's when I elevate is like if I have, not to me, but if there's a sworn enemy, like, I'll extend the olive branch. I got no problem working with, I mean, people that want to come after me.

Oh, no, he does, he does too, but he will, he's known for getting screwed over and then coming back and getting them back. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's got played before?

Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. I mean, he still owes me one. See, here's my thing How do you win seven, eight times If you're getting duped Because I don't watch So here's the thing

Here's what happened Johnny came on the show The challenge And he went home first And his first challenge too And then he made the right friends He put it in the work He got himself into shape

And then he had a couple of wins Boom boom boom Like three in a row Where it was like oh crap And then once he had all those wins Then he went into the next couple seasons With this like Very strong alliance

who always had his back. They stayed very true. And are these alliances based on outside relationships? Yes. Okay. Almost all the challenge after your first season. Like as soon as the calls start going out, the text messages, the DMs, are you going? Are you going?

People start making deals like months before. They told us some stories, CT and I think bananas about like, production doesn't treat you guys very well. Oh, no. You don't have to whisper that. Production treats is like trash on the challenge. And I'm like, they're saying like some dude had his like wrist messed up. And they're like, hey, they're like, hey, I got to go see the medic. And they're like, if you go, then you're done.

And we're not going to, I'm like, this is nuts to me. Like, why would you put yourself? I spent seven days in the ICU on a dialysis machine after one of the finals. And afterwards, I told the producer, the head producer, I'm like, bro, something's wrong. You need to go to the hospital. He was your fine. He tossed me a banana. Then I went to the hospital because I finally fought it because I was pissing blood.

And I told, we get there. And the doctor's like, you need to go into ICU. you like if you don't get hooked if you go to bed in a hotel you'll wake up dead I called them and they're like dude you're being a wuss get back here everyone's going out and the doctor was looking at me like dude if you go home you're going to die so I was like I'm going to listen to this doctor

so yeah they don't treat us well I've had a question for you after this hospital episode that was my last season okay I was going to say no judgment will you do another season or that because my thing is like if you know you're going to get treated like garbage why go do it it's like a drug dude it's the adrenaline it's, I won a season

and that check coming in the mail, you're like, I mean, you know what it's like getting that check. You're like, oh my gosh. The difference, I mean, from Michigan, like, the money goes a lot further in Michigan that does in California. Well, I remember saying after, I forget what season it was,

but it was like something like 20 or $30,000. I was like literally in Michigan, if I get $30,000 cash, like, I don't have to work for two years. People were like, no, that's not true. I'm like, no, the way I live, I don't have to do shit. Maybe not these days, but.

Not anymore, but back then? Yeah, you'll be all right. No, that's great. And yeah, so, I mean, I'm going to turn the question back on you. Is there another game other than traders that could bring you out of the house? I mean, it would have to be something new. I just joking with my wife. I'm like in another 10 years, like when I'm 50, I would like to try Survivor.

But like not my, I have a young kid. Like when my kids are like college. He was young. Yeah. You know, it's like I don't want, because the thing about the traders is I could call home. I could face time my kids. Yeah, that's huge. And it's, it was going to ask about that.

I would love to know. Let's talk about the process. Let's just talk about the, so from day one until you win the show, how long were they saying you're going to be gone on Traders? Three weeks. Oh, beautiful. I know. I know. Sign me up.

Yeah, sign me up. What was your name is Shelby what? Yeah, we're going to have to have a conference call. No, but it was to me, is really important. Like, can I face time my kids? Can I know they're okay? And they're like, yep, no problem. Yeah.

Really? Like, that's pretty amazing. Yeah, these newer shows, they're getting, like, even I've heard the Challenge USA on CBS, they're, they, are way better with that stuff. Well, this was mind-blowing to me. So the NBC and Peacock has this team called the wellness team and it's probably 12, 15 people.

And their only job is like, are you okay? Here's a psych. I literally got a little uncomfortable. Like I didn't open a door and hold a bag about halfway through. I'm like, guys, I can carry my own stuff. I can hold my own doors.

But they took it so serious about like making sure mentally, physically we were okay. And the cool thing for me with doing this show, I knew, based on how the producers were, if they had to make a decision, do we look after someone individually or make a great show? I didn't question it. They looked after people individually, which for me, it's brilliant. It was wild. Very rare. But I loved it. And so that made me want to go that much harder and make sure I'm 100% invested, not that I wasn't already.

From a, you know, and I deal with some talent when we bring people in and we do that. Like, we always try. Well, since you brought that up, you're good. Who is the most difficult to deal with that you brought in here? You don't just get to grill me here. The most difficult. Oh, I'm going to take the easy answer. I'm going to say Zach's son, Anthony. Come on. Listen,

we want to have these people back in the future. So our thing is, it's funny that you ask because, like, our thing is, like, a lot of times we have guessed in after we've, you know,

so it's been critical. But it just happens that way. So once we have the relationship, they know we're just going to continue to be critical. Yeah. But, you know, there's like, Yeah, they're fair.

Like, you can't take criticism. Like, say, oh, you screwed up. You still went after Fager two weeks earlier. I agree. You know what I mean? But it's not like, no, I get it. No, for sure. No, for sure.

So where I was going is like, I just feel like if the talent feels taken care of, they're going to, like, you said, just go the extra mile. Especially in a game where you're pretty vulnerable on TV like that, like people trying to get, you know, what they're doing. So I get that. But that's, I mean, that's a stretch. Like, in the challenge, you have one talent producer that handles the whole cast. and you're only allowed to talk to her and if you get caught asking for anything else it's so stupid.

So I don't know if you can talk about this but like did you sleep in the house like one of the interviews happened when did the what do they call it? I call it the vestibule or the layer. Yeah so everything takes place in the castle everything's there.

I mean it's a massive it's we only saw a percentage of the castle. That's how big it was. Yeah. It's I mean it was pretty wild and and but the best thing about it was for me you have I mean I think the average age of the cast was like 40, 42.

So like I, so you got some adults. Well, that says a lot about reality, where reality TV is at this point. The number one show is, you know, it's awesome. Yeah, no, like the demographic that watches reality TV is we've aged up. 25 to like 55, 60. Yeah. It's not the young people. But it's like that's what I grew up with.

You know, I grew up, Survivor came out when I was like 13 or 14. And then I was hooked, you know. The last basketball team I coached was at Brighton, 2000, it was during COVID. That was enough to run me. out of public school coaching. But why? I couldn't deal with the like, so just imagine a gym. Everyone's got masks on except for me.

I wouldn't wear one in the school. Because I'm like, the scientifically doesn't make sense. But anyways, that was the last time I coached was then. That was the tough. I was coaching. I had to step out because I'm like, I couldn't bring my kids to practice. I mean, the fact that you coached through a COVID, that was a, I mean, you're trying to figure out what the heck's going on.

Well, so what happened. Do you have a game? Do you have practice? Is it canceled? So here's what happened, though. And this is why I was like, I'm done with this. my wife got COVID. I didn't even have it.

I called the head coach and he hated it, but he was like, dude, I have to do what I do with everyone because that's the rule. So you can't come for two weeks or whatever. After two weeks, half the team had COVID. So then another two weeks where they couldn't even play a game. So now I've gone a month of not being there and then I got it.

Yeah. And so then I literally spent six weeks of the season, not even around the team. And I just felt disconnected. But my point is these are like 16 to 18 year old kids. I'm coaching them. Not a single one of them knows I was on TV, but their parents did. And that's when I was like, oh, my gosh, reality TV is completely, it's completely changed.

And that's why what you're saying is so brilliant bringing all these people back is because the fans of reality TV don't really care about new people. They're like, we have all these old characters that we grew up in our 20s and 30s watching. We want to see them. Yeah. And I get like it may limit the opportunity for some like civilians to go on. But like I want to see Boston Rob. I want to see Sandra competing. Like these legendary people, like, I'll watch.

I'm not going to watch a season of new people. I may watch this season of Survivor. I haven't watched in years, but I'm just like, I want to see the people that I grew up with because they're killers. Like, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You got the best wheel right here.

And it's the nostalgia of it, too. Like, when they do challenge All-Stars and they brought back all the people I would watch and everyone would watch when they were younger, you're just like, this is cool. Yeah, there's a little bit older, like maybe a step slower. And I think two people who are fans,

of reality TV, they want to see like what's Dan up to after 12 years. Like they were such fans. They were invested. So that's the other big part about reality TV is you have people who come on it, become favorites. And then they're like, well, it's not really worth it to keep pursuing this. I have a great life at home. And that was fun.

And then you don't get to hear from them where it's like, there's a market for that. Yeah. You know? No, for sure. Where are they at now? There's a reason that there's 10 Fast and Furious is and there's seven Rockies. Well, that's whatever there is. So is the Rockies.

But no, the point is is like, like, get, your stars, getting taken care of and do that. So you slept in the castle? Yeah. Oh, that's wild. It was cool. Was it cold? They always say castles are drafty.

No, it was cool. Everyone has their own room. Everyone has their room. There's a security guard and there's a noise machine outside of every door. Oh, that's why. I definitely wasn't getting anything from Fadre on the sneak. We were curious. We thought C.C.

It was just every night. That's why it looks so relaxed at breakfast every morning. Well, so. Fadre was walking like she had a corn dog up the butt. Yeah, I just saw you. Yeah. So, all right. So to get back to that, okay, we talked about that's what you turned down.

Tell us how you got your start. Did you always want Big Brother? Did you want Survivor first? Like, what was that? I applied to Big Brother. And I actually applied to Survivor first. And back in the day before you guys, you had to send in like a VHS tape. Oh, yeah.

That's how long. Like, I said, that too. I sent a VHS tape in. I get a call back from Survivor. I drive to Chicago and my Ford Taurus and I go through the casting process, like just learning. Then I get turned down for Survivor and I was crushed. But I'm like, you know what? You realize a million people tried out. Well, to me, I'm like, I'm going on. So I took the same tape and I changed a little bit, sent it to Big Brother, but I'd already been, it's like the exact process back then. So I was prepared. So you knew the process and you kind of knew what they were looking for. See, I didn't. I told them,

I tried to get out of my first interview. I'm like, no, they gave me a packet to fill out in the first casting thing. Well, I went to like three different. And they're like, here, fill this out. And I was like, yeah, no. Yeah. It was. Really?

I'm like, I'm like, I'm not filling that out. Yeah. And they're like, seriously? I don't give a fuck. I'm not filling that out. And then I, they called me that night and they're like, hey, can you come back? And I was like, didn't even fill out your packet. But yeah, I'll be there.

Yeah. I feel like these days, a big brother, they like have a storyboard. And then they like, pick like, okay, there's this character. let's go find this character. Because we've heard a lot of stories about these days about characters, I'm sorry, about people trying to build an influence and they get a semi-influence. And then big brother producers reaching out to them, be like, hey, are you interested of being on TV?

Right. Whereas, like, that's not how reality TV was when we applied. Yeah. It was just a bunch of people in their Abercrombie outfits, standing outside a bar in Ann Arbor. And if it happens, it happens, it happens. Yeah. If the right person sees you, you're good.

Yeah. So you were able to use your phones. Is it just, is it just like on demand? like when you ask for it or you have it after? No, it was like you had to kind of schedule it, but it wasn't like, no, no, you can't. You couldn't keep it in your room at night? No, because, I mean, we'd have access to like each other. That's where we were, because like, hey, if you guys are talking on the low.

It was monitored too. Like, there was someone in there just because like I got to watch you sleep. No, just on the phone call. Just on the phone call. So like I couldn't ask my wife like, hey, can you find out of any information? Right, right, right. No, for sure. Okay.

So did you talk about your first. Big Brother experience and you know was it fun was it hard? I mean imagine being 24 and winning a half million dollars I mean it was for me though I went in there and it was I felt like I grew up a lot

I went in there and I thought I thought I was going to win in the first hour there I'm like you had a rough go for I'm like bro I'm cooked I'm like I want my whole life to get here and then I mean I was a fish out of water you were scrambling at first yeah you settled in yeah but yeah you were a fish out of water first I was cooked yeah

Your second one, though, that was the, that was the impressive one. And it was probably fun to play with, I met Mike Boogie. Dude, I didn't know. I had never watched a season of Big Brother. I was in Boston and he was at a friend's house who knew him and he walked in. And I think he liked me because I was on the challenge and he didn't really know me. And he was like, dude, I have, I mean, I know who you are. Like I Googled you now that I knew you're going to be here, but I never watched it.

He, I think you liked that. Yeah, you know, Boogie loves reality TV. He's had like a couple bumps here, but. A couple. He gave me the best advice when I got off Big Brother the first time. And anyone else could have told me it. I wouldn't. I just revered him as like the first.

I was a young kid and I grew up watching Boogie. Season two, right? Him and Dr. Will. Yeah, but then he won all stars. And so I looked at him. I'm like, this dude, you know, like he's the guy. And he told me he's like, hey, like go back home. Go back to your normal life.

Because you'll get lost out here. And if anyone could have told me that, I wouldn't listen. But because it was him and I just won. I'm like, all right, so I went home and like I feel like I avoided maybe some of pitfalls of L.A. and like trying to pursue that. 100%. Did they? I always say the devil lives in L.A.

It's a different point. I mean, coming from the Midwest when I was there, I'd meet someone. And I knew, I knew they're like, they're thinking, what can I do for you? Not, hey, how are you? It was a culture. What can I get out of my relationship with you? Exactly. I felt that right away.

I'm like, I don't want any part of this. Yeah, no, for sure. I went in a little bit further than you. I found myself in a room full of guys that were like, hey, you want to, you need to lose weight if you want to be a model. And you can live in this house with 14 other guys. And I was like, you know what? Go fuck yourself.

Suck my ass. I'm not doing this. No, I never lived in L.A., but I got like, so I'll just be on. I'll just, Frank, right out of my first season of the challenge, Silver modeling agency in New York hit me up. And people told me like, dude, this is a legit agency. I had no idea whether it was legit or not.

And so I'm, you know, just won my first thing of the challenge. I was on the real world. How much you win for the challenge? Well, my team? 250. So we all got like whatever that is by 4, 67, 5. Now you're getting half a million to a million, quarter million, half million million. But quarter million out the door for sure.

Yeah, easily. So I won before it was cool, right? What was I saying before? I got sidetracked by my model. There's a lot of Michigan winners. A lot. Laurel, me. Well, Leroy, not so much.

Xavier and my brother. Was Laurel. challenge? Laurel's challenge. Okay. So anyways, these guys were like, we're going to sign you. You're good. We got all these jobs for you.

And I went to their thing and they were like, okay, you're going to have to take all your clothes off and we're going to take pictures of you. And I was like, I'll take my shirt off of pants staying on. Then they told me I was fat and I need to lose weight, but I had to move into this house. Was this a legit agency or do you find out later? It was called silver modeling agency. Could be? Might not be.

I was told it was. And then they were like, you're fat. And I was like, dude, these guys are like the sloppiest four days. dudes ever met my life. And then they were like, you have to live in our house with like 14 other guys. And we live there too. And I was like, yeah, suck my ass. And then they sent me to one audition and I like, they told me this like Viking outfit I was supposed to put on. And I was like, no. And I left. And then they called me a few more times. I just never answered. And then I got an email saying like, you can't sign with any other agency for like five years. And I was like,

no problem. I'm not doing that again. That was weird. No, it's highly weird. New York is weird. but, you know, like, obviously there's good people everywhere, but like, it's just not like home. Like home, you can count on, you can count on, you know, your neighbor being your neighbor. Yeah, you can go to a store and park in the parking lot. Exactly. What did you learn about yourself being on reality TV that you didn't know about yourself already? That's a good question. I think having now done three shows over whatever 15 years, I think the thing that I learned,

I learned the first time on Big Brother was that if, like, I started as a kid, man. I'm like, I want to go on this show. And then I want to win this show. And I always feel like after doing that, there's nothing that, it sounds corny that I can't accomplish. Now, can I go play in the NBA? No, but like if there's something I really want to do, like my career now, I stream on Twitch. And it's super competitive. What do you stream?

I stream, like, video games. Okay. But I know that, like, that's what. So that's your career. Is you stream video games? That's what I do. And that's what it sounds like. So can I do that with like Super Nintendo games?

You can do you know with anything you want. But it's a, it's, people got to watch. It's super competitive. It's very saturated. Yeah. And like, to me, I'm like, I'm like, okay, this is what I want to do, however long it takes. And it took about like five years of grinding to be like financially viable. But now that it is, it's like, okay, what's the next thing?

You told the kids, coach yourselves. I was doing both. I was coaching. Well, no, for sure. Yeah. I was coaching and doing Twitch. That's kind of like where I'm at right now. I'm doing this, but this is my hobby.

Yeah. that I'd like to be my maybe job someday, but then I... How's our monetization here, Pierre? We got to... We're doing okay. But anyway, my point is like, I always wonder, so what games do you stream? Or does it matter? Yeah, it does matter.

So, like, think of, like, Call of Duty Fortnite as, like, the top tier of, like, most popular games. I go the next tier down, a lot of independent games because there's not as much competition. There's still competition, but it's easier to grow at this level as opposed to Call of Duty. Did you ever play Gears of War? Bro, you're like that kid. Like, everyone knows there was a kid in high school or the teacher, be like, what do you want to do when you grow up?

And the kid would just say something like outlandish. You did it. So if I were you, I'd go back to my old elementary school and middle school teacher, anyone that I said, like, I'm going to play video games for living and be like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. You're cool, but fuck off, all of you. You know? I had a fifth grade teacher tell me you're never going to graduate from high school

because I couldn't sit and listen to her, and I'm like, you're boring. Like, why would I listen to you? You suck. Suck my ass. I'll get A's on all your stupid tests. But yeah, no, like, so like sometimes I think about it. I'm like, people care what I think. I want to go tell Dr. Surrey to suck my ass.

Yeah, well, you could. That was my history teacher as a sophomore. There you go, Surrey. She sucked. Doc Surrey. You remember that? I do. I do.

Okay, so let's talk about this current season. I know you don't have too much time, but let's talk about how do you think Fadra is playing without you? I think Fadra is playing without me the same way she's playing with me. me. And this is, I'm trying to be critical and straightforward. I think in the hand-to-hand combat, like defense, deflecting, she's great. I think when you saw her bring Kate in and Kate's like, what's a strategy? And Fadra's like, what do you mean? That's really bad. You know, like that's how she's playing. It was like when, it was like when Pam quit her job in the office to be at the Michael Scott

favorite company and she's like so he's like well we gotta have breakfast that was a she's like okay he's like but she's the star of the show for sure yes and she's great in the moment tomorrow to me i feel like i was the opposite i felt like i could plan 18 steps to get to the end but i just forgot i didn't play i didn't play face-to-face you want to be the wizard of oz you want to be calling everything but that's how that's always play these things right like whenever like i take the big shot you cocky son of a bitch you'd fake your own funeral on national television you came out of solitary confinement twitching. Like, oh.

And then did that. And I'm like, how are these? And you got to remember, I'm watching in 2023. Yeah. So I'm like, how are these idiots? Take like that. And that girl ate it. But it's different.

But you have to understand. Big brother's different though. You use the shit out of that girl all season. But listen, yeah, it's different because like, it's not like you're living with these people. And the reason it worked is because I put in 20 hours a day. What's your fate? What's your dog's name? Yeah.

I'm like. That girl loved you. She would have. could have been like, you could have been like, eat that rat poison, and she would have been like, I'll do that for you, Dan. I don't remember her name, but I just remember that poor girl, like, you just were like. Her brother was like this close to punching me at the finale. And she, like, she said.

Punching? Dude, that was my sister? You showed to a bag of dog shit on your porch. Three times a week. So, uh, she's definitely made some errors in my opinion. I think the Kate, uh, you know, ultimatum was a mistake. Don't pick Kate. Can't pick Kate.

I think that was a mistake. I think she probably should have went with a CT or a Peter, someone that had a little bit of influence in the house and, you know, might have been able to do that. It would have been a great TV if she picked Peter because when you're doing an ultimatum, it's like literally you're picking a traitor because you're not going to walk away. It's not an ultimatum. It's like you're becoming a traitor.

Peter might have said, kill me. Peter might have been like, I'm going to die. I'm faithful. Even John would have said something like, I don't want to, but I guess I will be. It's right. But imagine Peter becoming a traitor. and then just like murking all those people that he like loved. Yeah.

Well, yeah, the pivoted would have been his, he pivoted anyways, so he might as well have done it. Yeah. He literally made the most treacherous move all season and he's super faithful. I'm like, what are you doing? But again, The Bachelor, you know. Yeah, he's a bachelor. He's a sharp.

He's surprised. Oh, for sure. No, he definitely is sharp. There's a reason why you get chosen to be the, being chosen to be the bachelor's harder than being chosen to be on any other reality reality TV show because you're the one dude. But he's got it. Like when you met, when I didn't know who he was,

when you met him, you're like, okay, it makes sense he's a bachelor's like super charismatic. Good look, dude. Oh, he's got the Riz. He's got it, man. He does have. Yeah, he's got him in person. I haven't met him in person, but I watched his season of The Bachelor and he. Would you make out with him?

Yeah. Um, you know, no. He's a good looking at him. He's not as good looking at his circumstance. He's not as good looking at his Tony. No, he's not. But, but no, I mean, like, he's, one thing that's really cool about watching Peter is like, I love seeing you here and talking about the passion you have for playing games.

He has that. Oh, dude. He killed it And like he would do little stuff That like I didn't know until after like he faked a fight with Kevin I'm like okay that may have not got what you thought mileage But to me when I saw that I'm like there was a doubt in my head I'm like these guys not get along

I didn't know they staged that like yeah I love that gamesmanship even for the sake of gamesmanship He sussed you guys out with that Oh bro he's he smoked me out He sussed you and Parvety Yeah well they cut this out And they're kind of not giving him credit for it But when I was finished going after Fadre, Peter sits back and in front of everyone,

he goes, I just think Dan just gave us the third trader. And then everyone was just like, didn't say anything. But they gave the credit to Trichelle. Like, that's the storyline they're building. But he was the one that was like, and when he said that, I'm sitting back and I just got cooked by Fadre. I'm like, this dude is the sharpest MF are in here. Here's the thing. Trishel is, I'm glad you said that because, like, they've made Trichel look like the, the wonder like this season.

But I will say Trishel and Peter to me strategically are the ones that are like trying to map this thing. No, for sure. The last thing you got to remember, the last time I played a game with Shichelle, she got hammered, made a bunch of racist comments and then stormed out of the house with her suitcase falling down steps. That was the last I saw her, right? So the first time I saw her, my buddy took one of her pills and didn't remember two whole days. So like this is what I have on Trichel, like in my bank is I'm like, I think she's crazy. I think she's a lunatic I gotta give you

Like I When I met her Like I'm like she's a sweetheart Yeah But I feel yeah Like through the MTV stuff I feel like that Changes you

It makes you a little weirder For sure But like Trishel To me was unhinged Britney Spears currently Like you know Britney Spears The Knives

She's got like knives And she's like I literally thought that of her But Where's the camp Trishel I don't feel that way I know

Very fond of you Trishol But here's the thing Like I thought Truchel was nuts. I think Truchel on the challenge when I was on it was uncomfortable because it was no longer the challenge

that she grew up with. It was more cutthroat. I think that made her uncomfortable. I think it brought out behavior that she didn't even know she had. Probably MTV behavior that was you know. Yeah. Like grew up. She grew up. So I think this game is so much less physical. She's probably one of the younger

ish girls. So she's in a good spot there and she's not as self-conscious. She's not as nervous. And it's more of like it is, it's more of strategic up here and she has that, she plays poker, and so these are her strengths. Well, I think, I think she's playing it really smart.

She was, she would come to me and like, she would talk about strategy about the game. Like she, she's not one just sitting back. She's thinking about things. But I think with this whole thing,

and why I wanted to play the traders, it felt like, as much as you can say at tongue and cheek, like an adult reality TV competition. There were, like people aren't getting hammered and, no,

that's true. I would be. I mean, well, she said it herself, I like to hang out by the bar. That's what she said in the last time. She's not joking about that. Like the last time she was on All-Stars or the shoes on season one of Challenge All-Stars, which everyone thought it was going to be like a fun, loving thing.

They came back. And Trishel, they were making them do real challenges. And Trichelle was like, we didn't get the memo that we actually had to be in shape. So, like, Chichel doesn't want to work hard. She wants to work smart. And she's good at it, though. But here's the thing, like, the way I look at it, even with, like, Chichel, like, you've been on a lot of shows.

Like at some point, like, professional poker player. Yeah, you don't want to like, you know, at some point, you can't run through a brick wall with a helmet on while carrying two dudes on your back. No. You know, like, you all got a shelf life. Oh, for sure. I met mine, you know. But like a shelf life for that. But, you know, maybe it's time to go play, you know, mental warfare in a game like the Traders.

I would love to try to play the Traders. And all I know is I would try my hardest, but I would just try to, I would be just outlandish, I think. I think that's the only way I could survive. It's not that serious, right? Like, everyone's kind of in on the joke. It's like, it's fun. Everyone takes it serious, but it's still like... Yeah, I would play hard, but I would try to be still, like, an entertainer.

Yeah. Because I'm, you know, the finals aren't my thing no more. Not yet. All right, we are getting close to that time that you had asked for. Brother, thank you so much for coming through. It's a pleasure to have you here in the studio. Thank Joey. Your cousin, Joey.

I will. Joey's the one that... Joey, you vouched, and the vouch was good. Thank you, man. You guys are awesome. So nice to me. I know you don't. I know you have your own podcast.

We're going to go through the whole process. You'll see the clips. And I don't know, maybe we can sign you to Go Media. Who knows? You Twitch and you do your podcast. Yeah, so like... Big Brother stuff? No, I'd like interview people from video games, reality TV, and athletics because I spent

a lot of time coaching. And so, you know, some like Alan Robinson or... Were you an offensive coordinator? I was a defensive coordinator. My man, I love defense. Dude, it's... I'll tell you what, man. The game changed so fast.

I feel like... High school game is like nuts now. kids are just their their concern is racking up offers and it's like bro you've played 10 snaps don't how about you play for your team and then the offers will come yeah just down the road right here st mary's yeah it's crazy it's awesome st mary's is love it amazing place hold on you guys had this on the wall speaking like yes you coached him yeah i mean but just talk about like tough ass kit tough kids from st mary's you know like my kids swears that's the thing like you know and this is so regional won't apply but st. Mary's there's just it's it's an awesome place you get all kind of kids and

they're tough and and to me I'm sure you felt the same coaching like coaching keeps you young you know like you're plugged I felt like I was plugged in to whatever that next generation was while I was yeah it's tougher and tougher like one time I said something there like all right a couple kids got my car we were driving to like a team function and Justin Timberlake was on like I don't know and some kid goes oh my mom listens to this I'm like shut the fuck up. I don't care how good you are. I'm pulling you next game. This mom was probably super hot.

Justin's awesome. They're like, dude, this is old people music. Well, that's us. No, coaching does. Well, thank you for giving us your time. I appreciate it. Have fun on your trip. Can I say one thing? Please, this is your platform. This has been a highlight for me because from Michigan, you don't get to do this stuff in Michigan. This is like an L.A. thing.

The Goat Media Studio is sweet. And I, you know, I give you guys to me, when some, someone's doing something that no one else is doing not no one's really doing this here at least to my knowledge like that's that's awesome you know like you're a leader around here and like i have no doubt you know things are going to continue thank you for you guys like hey like i said hopefully we can work together um we'll negotiate some uh thanks for watching check out dan's old seasons if you haven't check him out and if you're not watching the traders go check that out and i'm going to go buy a super nintendo and you guys are going to watch me play super mario world

because I know how to get every color Yoshi. Oh, yeah, Go Media Streaming. It's a real thing we've been working on it. We'll see you guys soon.