THEMOVE - 2024 Trades & Transfers Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Lance, George, and Johan dive into Tom Pidcock's shocking transfer to Q36.5, and how it changes things for his new team and signals major issues at Ineos, before running down what other major stars are changing teams in advance of the 2025 season. The crew discusses how major differences in team budgets have driven these changes, and how they will affect the racing in the upcoming season.  Zwift: This adjustability makes Zwift Ride perfect for anyone in the house to use and at $1,299.99 it’s a game-changer so head to https://Zwift.com now to check it out ROKA: Listeners can enter code THEMOVE at checkout to receive a 20% discount on their first order at https://www.roka.com/themove Ketone-IQ: 30% off your first sub order + free 6 pack when you use the link: https://www.ketone.com/themove AG1: AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out https://www.DrinkAG1.com/themove to get this offer! That’s DrinkAG1.com/themove to start your new year on a healthier note. Tushy: Give the gift of practical luxury that benefits everyone in your household. Go to https://www.hellotushy.com/THEMOVE now to grab your deal before it's gone!    

what ends up being the best transfer for a team like who performs the best of all of them um who's the best the best who was the smartest acquisition this i think i in my opinion it's simon yates i agree with that simon yeah hey everybody welcome back to the move podcast. Today, we're talking about trades and transfers. Cycling is not like any other or it's not like it's not different than any other sport. Well, maybe it is. I mean, certainly individual sports doesn't matter, but team sports. And it's funny, I get this question a lot about cycling and it's a team sport or an individual sport i think we all sort of chuckle because we very much know that it's a team sport but most people don't know um but we're going to talk about trades and transfers where all the

not all but a lot of the big riders went why they went what did they bring with them what did they have to trade off all that good stuff i am joined i guess you're in madrid johan i don't and never know what this is this graphics work you do johan bruniel in madrid who as y'all know i mean has his finger on this pulse i don't know probably better than anybody else out there so we got the man to talk about it and down there in greenville, South Carolina, Mr. George Hincapie, apparently. By the way, George, you told me they've got these nonstops

this weekend from Greenville to Austin in lieu of the Texas Clemson game. Clemson. What? I thought you said Clemson. Clemson. I did. I said Clemson. Okay. Is that not? Yeah. How do y'all say it? We say Clemson. Clemson. Clemson. Anyways, what you left out is you're not getting on the nonstop. And this is a golden, it's a great opportunity for you to come down here and hang with your boy. I know. I figured, I mean, I thought about about it but uh historically speaking every time i send you a message i don't

get a response for like two or three weeks i figured i'd land in austin and be left hanging for two days and then just come right back so yeah didn't really pull the trigger well let me tell you something let me just tell you something all right um i got a room the rooms uh guest room is ready you just come on down with the tigers of Clemson, Clemson, whatever they're called. By the way, too, speaking of players and we are really getting off track here, but but the quarterback for Clemson. Is this kid Cade Klubnick, right now? Be interesting for him because he he's he's for him because he's a local boy here. He played where my son played, Westlake High School, won a state championship for Westlake High School.

Was like the 10-star recruit out of high school and went to Clemson. So a bit of a homecoming for him. Just up the road i used to always go my my whenever i would go in to my pt guy dr bob uh also right up the road i would see this kid in there after game day is pretty sweet kid so i i'm a little bit uh conflicted because i i love him and love the way he plays but you know you got the horns this weekend so you you're going to go to the game? I'm not. No, no. You know me. I don't.

Just walking around with 100,000 people. No, I'll not be there. But and you know why? This is amazing. It's on TV and I can sit in my couch and have my have my jug right there and my not... No, I won't be there. We're going to get into all the action of the trades and transfers. And of course, we're talking about from the 2024 season to the 2025 season. Jesus Christ, we're going to be a quarter of a century through...

I mean, I remember Y2K like it was yesterday. Terrifying. Today's show brought to you by Zwift. So Zwift just released the Zwift Ride, an all-new smart bike that is changing the indoor game and making it easier and more affordable than ever before to get started riding indoors. It is that time of year.

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years that were discovered through Zwift and through e-sports and all this stuff. So I'm just curious if any of these names we bring up sort of popped out of that virtual world. Also today brought to you by Roka. They've just changed the game, Rob and his whole crew. By the way, this is a fun story. Rob can Alice, the founder of Roka, his, his son and my son go to the same high school. They're in the same grade. So I see Rob. It's funny. I see him like up at like schools, believe it or not. I mean, it goes, these school things and I'll run into Rob and it's just so cool to see him. He's such a great dude.

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This is how many pairs of Roka readers I have on my desk. Check it. It keeps going, dude. Like they're everywhere. Look, these look, boom, you're on. These are the ones you like. Those kind of orangish ones. I mean, I just have them everywhere. And I wore my wore my wind down glasses to a Christmas party the other night, and it was the biggest hit of the party. Oh, you were fired, right? You mean you're talking about the red ones?

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You know what? I'm a little sluggish this morning. A little shot of Ketone IQ. Clinically proven to cross the blood-brain barrier. This is the game changer, right? This is the thing when it comes to focus. You hear a lot of, yeah, I guess you hear less less but you still hear a lot about brain fog right that was that was kind of a buzzword a buzz phrase during covid but it's still out there and folks try this out try try the

ketone iq uh for any kind of brain fog or funk i really do do think it makes a huge difference. I've certainly heard that from many, many people. And also too, while we're talking about keto and IQ, I just have to acknowledge, cause I've gotten so many questions about this little bitch, Jake Paul. All right. He just, he's just razzing me on the IG the other day, drops in, slides into my stories. He's out on a bike ride.

I get a lot of questions too. Why is he on a bike? Well, his girlfriend is a high-level Dutch speed skater. And of course, there's a ton of crossover between speed skating and cycling. So he actually rides quite a lot. And I know I just called him a little bitch, but the reality is I actually like Jake.

But I meant what I said. He's been begging for an ass whooping. He better swim in a pool of ketone IQ before he comes over here and wants to have a little bike race. But folks, is it real? I get a lot of questions. Is it real? Is this going to happen? I've had a lot of comments go take him down, whoop his ass.

You know, I don't know if it's real. I don't know. I hope it is. Right. I'm coming to watch that. If you coming, that would be fun. You should actually train him, George. You could be his full-time trainer and you know, this isn't one of these Netflix flops, right? Let's pay a legend to take a fall or to not swing, right? This I'm, I'm not phoning shit in.

I'm coming. You can be swinging. All right. I'm swinging back to ketone IQ, 30% off your first subscription order. Plus a free six pack. When you use the link ketone.com slash the move that's ketone.com slash the move. Johan, here's a question. Do you even know who, we are really off topic here. Do you know who Jake Paul is? I do know who Jake Paul

is. I didn't know who he was until last year, but you know, you know, when you have a teenage son, you know, all those Instagrammers. So that's, that's how, but anyway, he was, he was actually a YouTuber, but we'll call him an Instagrammer. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. I do know who he is. And I think, uh, you know, it's, of course, there's a lot of show involved, but I think he's a great athlete. Hey, uh, like I said, I, I do have a ton of, uh, look, I have a lot of respect for what he's built. I mean, people kind of poopoo it, but Hey, and I've been to a fight. I don't know if I ever mentioned this on a previous show,

Luke and I went to his fight, uh, when he fought Nate Diaz and he's, uh, this is what we were talking to the pre-show. Like I, I hope everybody's real clear. This is a bike race. Cause I'm not getting in the ring with that dude. There's no way y'all just have to find a different guy to be on the podcast. I would never be the same. So let's talk about trades and transfers. Johan, what, I mean, you, you have it there in your backdrop, right? You got sort of the four big ones that stand out and maybe there's an asterisk there with, with Julian Alaphilippe, but just high level, what, what, what, you know, what stands out the most for you? Well, I think there's, there's, there's different ways to look

at it. If you, if you look at all the buzz that has been going on, I think Pitcock is obviously the story because of his profile as a writer, because of all the drama that has been going on. I think Pitcock is obviously the story because of his profile as a writer, because of all the drama that has been around it. But I think the three others, if you look at Simon Yates, Ben O'Connor and Mark Hirschi and Julian Afolip at the same time, those are incredible transfers, mainly O'Connor and Simon Yates because they go to teams that are on the world tour. If you look at Pitcock and Simon Yates, because they go to teams that are on the world tour.

If you look at Pitcock and Hirschi, they go to pro teams, which are not world tour level. And I think Simon Yates is an interesting one because it looks like Wisma has been copying a little bit, you know, what Adam Yates is doing for Pogacar. They want Simon Yates to do for Jonas. So I think that's really, for me, that's the transfer of the year, the most interesting one on the world tour level. what Adam Yates is doing for Pogacar. They want Simon Yates to do for Jonas. So I think that's really, for me,

that's the, that's the transfer of the year. The most interesting one. Yeah. Yeah. These are, and Johan, correct me if I'm wrong. These are top 10 biggest names in cycling for those guys.

For the most part, they just mentioned usually when you see transfers of that stature, they're bringing two or three guys along with them, but all of these guys just went along solo. Can you comment on why do you see transfers of that stature, they're bringing two or three guys along with them, but all of these guys just went along solo. Can you comment on why do you see that happening? Well, yes. I mean, I don't think O'Connor is a leader of the stature of saying, okay, I want to bring my entourage.

And then he, she wanted to leave UAE. So, you know, he was, he was greatly paid there. He was, I mean, let's not forget, you know, uh, um, he, she is number six in the world and O'Connor is number four in the world. If you look at the rankings, um, but it's true. It's true that you see less and less people moving teams and bringing two, three riders, plus some stuff. I think probably bring some stuff, but, but no riders. Um, and that's probably a trend that's going on now that, um, the teams are basically already fully, fully occupied. And, uh,

and these guys went on their own. It's true. I hadn't, uh, I hadn't thought about that. Well, and would it also not be true that, that these teams have really leveled up? I mean, we talk a lot about the, um, just how competitive slash fit slash amazing the entire Peloton is, but you have to imagine on the staffing side, whether it's a chiropractor, a chef, a mechanic, a swan, you're a trainer, a doctor, like these teams, this is not the old days anymore. So these are, these are much more professionalized and stood up and, and, you know,

they really just feels like, yeah, it's all F1 or premier league or something like that, that they don't have to worry so much about that. They know that if they're going to go to another team, that they've got the right infrastructure. It's still, it's still, it's still, I think it's still a unique, very unique. A guy like Tim, Tom Pigcock has been on the same team his whole career. I mean, you establish a bond with one or two guys,

definitely one or two staff that you have the utmost confidence in Lance. You had your guys. We saw a saga and brought like five to seven people to his new teams. I mean, it's definitely something that we haven't seen in a while where these guys don't bring somebody along with them. I thought that was kind of odd. Yeah. I think Pitcock, Pitcock brings some people with him. His coach slash director is a Belgian guy.

Kurt Bogarts is going from Mineos to, because he's like the guy in charge of Pitcock's whole program, not just the road, but also cyclocross and mountain biking. And I would expect that probably a mechanic or something also goes with Pitcock. You know, just for the fact,

he rides all those different bikes. So, and with all due respect, I think a team like you, 36.5 is still able to improve on better stuff. Whereas at the world level, that's probably not the case anymore. Yeah. And it goes to a team like you,

36.5 that I'm looking down the roster here. There isn't some huge standouts, but at the same time, when a guy like pick out goes to a team like this, I mean, they're all in for somebody like that. I mean, there's not going to be questions of who's the leader and some of these one

day races, and it'll really help elevate. I believe the level of the squad that they have a set plan for these races going in. They have a set leader. So I think we'll see a lot of these guys jump up a few notches in terms of their level. And also, you know, if you look at Q36.5 in particular, you know, so I would assume that Pitcock's contract is a three-year deal.

Nowadays, these guys don't sign for anything less than three years. I think it's also looking at the future because a team like Q36.5, it must be quite challenging to attract talent. There's so many other good teams there. Now, with the figure of Pitcock there, it's going to make things easier in the future. You know, when they have to hire new riders for the next coming two years, these riders are going to be more attracted to go to that team because you have a strong leader who can win races. Well, and not only that, but we talk about, uh, Lance, you're good friends with the owner of the team. He's highly invested in cycling. I mean, highly invested. So you would think this is a, a very long-term project with the brands that he's purchased. Um, the team that he has, uh, I think that has a lot to do with a guy like pick out going to somebody like

that, that is, is most likely going to be in the sport for a long time. Well, you're, I agree with all these things. I mean, I, I think it's, um, you, you're without naming names and I don't know how comfortable, uh, almost said, I don't know how comfortable people are with their names being out there, but it's a stake in the ground, right? You're saying, look, we're here to play. And, and, and this, this is our first move, not our only move. And now there, there is a more and more an influx of money coming into the sport of cycling. And I do want to get to this part of the conversation because I'm, I'm just always fascinated and curious about the financial part of some of

these transfers, what guys are making these days. But we've seen the influx of, of UAE, Bahrain. There's talk of the Saudis leaning into cycling like they did with golf. And the fellow that we're referencing, boy, y'all better rattle the piggy bank. Because, yes, my buddy, he's very passionate about the sport. I don't think this is one and done. I think he wants to make his presence felt. And certainly, to your point, George, help amplify the brands that he has bought.

So it's good. It's great. It's great. And now is this the first time in the history of cycling that a clothing, a cycling clothing manufacturer is the actual main sponsor of the team. I know we've had clothing manufacturers before, but I don't know, perhaps. You had, you had a professional cycling team. Yeah. So it's the second time.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, you had your, yeah, we were in a world tour. Correct. And just real quick by, by Yohan, by signing a Tom Pidcock, and I just want to be totally clear on this. And so for Q 36.5, and again, you know, y'all know, I don't know all these things, but races like Milan, San Remo,

Liege, Bastogne, Liege, Flash, these are guaranteed entries or hopeful entries. They're not guarantees. So the difference is that there's, so there's, there's wild cards. So Q36.5 is in the pool that beats a wild card. You know,

there's the 18 world tour teams who have guarantees. And then for the, for the one day races, I think it's 25 teams. So with Pitcock, any race that they want to race with Pitcock, they're going to get it for sure. For the ground tours, it's different, right?

You have the 18 World Tour teams. Then you have the two teams that are first and second on the pro team level. That's Lotto and Israel. So that's 20. And then there's two wild cards left. So my guess, I'm not going to say a guess. It's a prediction. Is that Q36.5 is going to get a wild card

for the Giro together with, in my opinion, Unilex. And since Lotto has decided that for fading their Giro, they don't want to participate, there's going to be an extra Italian team.

They always change names, so I don't really know what it is. And for the Tour, it's the same thing. It's going to be the 18 World Tour teams, Lotto and Israel, and then, in my opinion, Total Energies, for sure, and Tudor, who made

the big move with Hirschi and Juliana and Philippe. Those are going to be the wild cards for the Grand ground tours. But in the case of Q36.5, I think they make a great move with Pitcock, all the one-day classics that he wants to participate

in. Milan Sanremo, Flanders, Amstel, Liege, they're getting in. So Johan, talk about this a little bit because I was in a similar situation when I signed with Team BMC. It was a, what know, was it then a pro continental team, not a world tour team, no guaranteed invites to grand tours. But there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that goes on, you know, especially this time of year where there's whining and dining of different organizers. And what's the process now? Is it the UCI is involved or is it simply the organizers? And I'm sure these teams, before they make these huge investments, they have some indication of their race schedule moving forward.

Yeah, but it's a lot based on lobbying also, George. You know what I mean? Yeah. In the case of Q36.5 and Tudor, for example, the two, in my opinion, the two, it's called pro two, um, what's it's called pro team now, anyway, continental pro, um, it's, it's based on a lot of things. If you look, for example, two door was invited to the Giro last year and guess who all of a sudden became the official timekeeping sponsor of the Giro watch brand brand. They were probably in a different order, but yes.

So, so there's, there's a, there's a lot of politics involved. But, but I mean, you have to qualify. So it's not like just being a pro team. You have to be in the top 35 or top 40 of all the teams. So, you know, if you're just a small team and you're not, you're not in the top, top rankings, you also can't qualify for any of those races. Well, we have others to talk about, notably Mark Hershey, Ben O'Connor. I think we have to spend a little time talking about Alaphilippe.

And to your point a second ago, Johanna, what that just means for them when it comes to having, you know, a French Hall of Famer. I mean, we have to call it what it is. He's had a fantastic career. Perhaps best days are behind him, but he's still Julian Alaphilippe. I'm also curious, too, how some, you know, folks have these run-ups or these, they know their contract's coming up and they know they want to get a new, as you said, three-year deal, how they respond, right?

When they're, when they've got the new, the new deal and they're in a new environment, just how they respond. I'm curious about that. But before we do today's show, also brought to you by AG1. I tell you all the time, and I mean it, I start every day with AG one. It's real simple. And not only just when it comes to AG one, but also other lifestyle choices. I've just decided the last year is my life to take control of my health, whether it's habits, lifestyle supplements. I get a lot of questions too, about what supplements I'm interested in,

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new subscribers a free $76 gift when you sign up. Now, I'm not sure how we came up with 76, but it's a $76 free gift. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and five free travel packs in your first box. Make sure to check out drinkag1.com slash the move to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com slash the move. Get your free $76 gift when you sign up. Last one of the day, today's show brought to you by Tushy. I love this brand. They've been partners of ours for a while, but the reality is I actually was a consumer of this brand years ago. And it all started with my wife who always wanted one of these gazillion dollar toilets to do all these fancy things. I mean, it's just insane. I mean, and I was like, no,

no, I channeled my inner George. I got, I got, I said, no, I'm not going to spend that kind of money, right? George, I guess. No, I found, I saw, seriously, I found, I saw it on Instagram and this tushy, uh, bidet is, is, is the perfect alternative. You don't have to spend a gazillion dollars. And here's the thing, totally easy to install. If I, if I can install this thing, and it took me probably all in less than 15 minutes, I think that's even the upper range. So if you've been wanting to upgrade your bathroom or grab the perfect gift for anyone on your list, now is the time. The Tushy bidet easily attaches to your existing toilet without the need for additional plumbing or electricity. That is the truth. I can tell you because I did it as a consumer.

Give the gift of practical luxury that benefits everyone in your household. Head on over to hellotushy.com slash the move to grab your deal before it's gone. And don't forget to give us a shout out while you're there and let them know that we sent you go to hellotushy.com forward slash the move for the best gift this holiday season george it's actually a good gift for you you mail everybody you got my address and they have all this this other this this science around the spray and uh cleans i don't want to get into it not Not with you guys. It's not probably not too long before we have the hello to she's in team buses.

You imagine that nevermind. It's not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea. No, it isn't a bad idea. Hmm. Okay. Let's talk about the other big ones.

But by the way, Ben O'Connor, we, we, we point him out a lot because he was featured in the Netflix series. But it's almost like he watched it, right? And didn't love his portrayal.

And he said, well, I didn't love that very much. He had an answer. And he came back strong as hell. I'm curious, too, maybe this is a good time to weave in the finances. What do you think that cost Jay Koalula? Is that an expensive transfer? Give the folks a sense for, you know, what these guys are getting paid.

I don't know. Do you have any info, George? I mean, I know, for example, I mean, we all know Bogacar just signed a new deal for 8 million. That's the highest paid rider. Then we have... As he should be. Yeah, of course. Of course. And he should make at least double of what the second highest paid rider makes.

Then, you know, I was surprised to hear what Pitcock was making. I think 5 million is a big number for... Yes, he is a huge talent but the results on the road are not in comparison with what we think he can do uh five well hold on one second aren't you buying i mean one could argue that you're buying three riders in one well what is the best mountain biker in the world make? Well, that would be Nino Schurter, right? So he's making seven figures. So you see what I'm saying?

Like you got this package deal. Let's not forget. I mean, that's true, but I don't think that was on the wishlist of Ineos to have a mountain bike and a cyclocross rider. They're a road team. As a matter of fact, I don't know if you guys saw, but interesting fact is that Pitcock goes to Q36.5. They're riding Scott bikes, but in cyclocross and mountain biking, he stays on Pinarello. Of course.

Which is owned by the owner of Q36.5. So it's a win-win for that guy too. But in terms of Ben O'Connor, I would guess, I mean, let's not forget, he's number four in the world. So it is above 2 million for sure. If you look, Vingegaard, Roglic, Van Aert, Van der Poel, they're making somewhere between 3 and 4 million. I don't think Ben O'Connor makes that mountain, but definitely north of 2 million. 2.5.

He's 2.5 million. He's number 6 in the world. And Alaphilippe reportedly makes at least the same, if not more, than he was making at Sudok Quickstep. So that's also two and a half or more. So these guys that we have on behind you there,

Simon Yates, Ben O'Connor, they're going to teams that are not known for the top four or five budgets in the pro tour. They're more mid-range budgets. Is this something where, you know, we get a chance to get a guy like Ben O'Connor, like they got to go dip in back into their sponsors and say, look, we need a little bit more money for this. Cause I don't think they just have that money laying around, but they,

if they can bring somebody like that to the table, perhaps, or, well, now that Jacob, Jacob's got a little, which probably has, you know, a lot more money, they can probably justify that sort of expense, but Yumbo, Vis Melissa bike. I mean, apparently they didn't have much of a budget going in there. Of course they do everything they can with their budget, but clearly a guy like Simon Yates is not going to be cheap. They must, they must have to go to these companies and say,

we need a couple more million to get these guys. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you look at Jake Koalula, it's, it's basically that Simon Yates was making 2 million or more also trade off, right. They change, they change, um, in terms of, um, Visma Lisa bike. Um, I don't know, I don't know what their budget is. I mean, they have a big budget, but, um, and I don't actually know who's leaving there. Uh, that's not, I mean, they got, they got quite a substantial amount of money for Roglic leaving last year because he still had a contract. So Boda was, was paying.

So maybe they used some of that money to, uh, to hire Simon Yates. And a lot of these teams are a lot of, sorry, a lot of these riders, not a lot, but some of the riders will actually go to a team like Vis-a-Malisa because of their history and helping elevate the levels of other riders in the past because of how much emphasis they put in science and nutrition and training. They'll take a little bit less money to go to a team like that, to have those sort of tools to help them grow in the sport i believe yeah for sure for sure i mean um if you look if you look at uh tudor for example i think if he goes there and alphalete goes there tudor is definitely a team that's on the up uh and the way they're hiring also they're hiring a lot of staff from, uh, from like a quality, really qualified staff from other teams. Um, so I don't think that, uh, at that level,

there's that much of a difference, uh, anymore in the teams. By the way, everybody's favorite or a lot of people's favorite Victor Campenarts heading to Visma Lisa-Malisa bike. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be interesting to see. Yeah. I don't know.

I bring it up because I do think it's interesting. He's a bit of a character and. Yeah. Yeah. I can see a world where he's very useful on that team. He has. Goes back to, he was there already,

by the way, he was riding for Lotto Jumbo in the past. He went, I think from Lotto Jumbo, he went to, uh, to, uh, what's it, what was it called? Duck, Duck riders team before. Was it MTN Cubeca or something? Yep. Yep. He went to, uh, then he went to Lotto, um, and, uh, and, um, or did he go somewhere else? I mean, anyway, uh, interesting,

interesting. I'm, you know, you guys, you guys seem to like, I'm not a fan of, I think the Campanards, to be honest. Wow. I mean, I'm a fan. His,

his stage win was incredible. It feels like this, the guy maybe works as hard as anybody else, but I do, we need to give Spencer Martin a shout out for giving us these detailed notes. And he did, he did mention the biggest losers. One of the biggest

losers was Team Lotto, losing a guy like Campanots. And the other guy on your list, Johan, was Maxim Van Gils. So we'll talk about what's going on in their minds right now. How can they let these guys go? And how are they trying to offset these losses? Yeah, well,

I mean, Lotto is a very special team. Here we definitely speak of a limited budgetotto is a very special team, but that here, we definitely speak of a limited budget. And on top of that, they are losing destiny next year. So they're losing a sponsor of 6 million. Lotto apparently has upped their budget and, and try to compensate that a little bit,

but it was, it was a numbers game. Maxim Van Heels. The story is that he uh he had a contract he had re-signed the contract at the beginning of 2024 after a really good season last year and this year he had an amazing season actually he was he was top five in a lot of different races he was uh third in strada biancaas, Bartolies. He was up there in all those like races that, that really suit him. And surprisingly he signed a deal in,

in March or something and you do your dealer three-year deal. And then he changed agents all of a sudden after signing this, this contract he was, he was making five to 600,000 euros a year. And all of a sudden he said, okay, we want to talk. I need to, I need to renegotiate my contract. It always makes me laugh. You know, I would like to, you know, have your guy's opinion on it. I'm pretty sure it's going to be different than mine. But, you know, you see these young guys with these agents, they go, they negotiate and they, they push for multi-year deals, two, three years. Um, and so, because they want to guarantee,

uh, and then all of a sudden, if they perform, they want to break open their contract. Now, why has it never happened the other way? If they don't fulfill their expectations, why does a team doesn't have the option to renegotiate the contract? Anyway, in this case here, Maxim Van Gils said, okay, they did the research. He hired Alex Carrera, who was the agent of the agent of Pogacar, also the agent of Kian Uyterbrooks, who actually broke his contract with Bora last year to go to Visma.

So they did the same operation the other way around. Now, Van Giels said, OK, I terminate my contract in Belgium. There is an old law of 1978 that gives any employee the right to terminate their contract if they compensate their employer with the remainder of their compensation. In this case, since Van gils was making 500 so it's probably like a million which was left on the two-year deal and the figures i've seen is that he's i mean he's going to bora to red bull bora and and will make 2.4 million euros a year, which to me sounds like extremely high for, he is a big talent, but he's not at the level of these guys who make that kind of money yet.

So it's difficult to imagine. I mean, if you, if you're in his shoes and all of a sudden you can make that amount of money for two or three years, I can understand that you want to terminate your contract, but it only works in one direction. So, Johan, a team like that, sorry, Lance, a team like Red Bull Bora, making

that sort of investment in a guy like Maxime Van Gilles indicates that now they want to put a heavy emphasis on the one-day races. Would you agree with that? And they've said it recently in the press that they're going all in for sort of a whole year approach to getting wins. So it's interesting that they got somebody like that.

And he could be a guy that can perform well in a race like Tour of Flanders or these one day hard races. Yeah, they also signed Oliad Lascagno from Movistar, who was, by the way, also you know, you need to write that name down because he's going to be very present in the final of those races. He was already this year, but on a team like Movistar, a bit more difficult. But on Red Bull Bora, he will be there. And that's a rarity. I'm a Spanish guy in the finals. It's been a minute since, I don't know, when did Juan Antonio Fletcher race? A long time ago.

Back in our time. Yeah, in our day. Two things before we get out of here. One, because we do, I just want to make sure we cover this because we get so many questions about up and coming Americans and the status of American cycling. Any interesting, that you all american cycling any interesting that y'all know any interesting american transfers it doesn't seem like the ones we we tend to talk about are staying larry larry is leaving decathlon larry warbassi going to a tutor which i feel like that's a great opportunity for him to actually finally make the tour de france team if they get selected he's got

experience he's got experience. He's sort of a veteran cyclist now, hard to say because I mentored him as a young kid. But I'd love to see him make the Tour de France. I thought that was a great signing, especially since he didn't really know where he was going. I rode with him in September and he wasn't sure if he was going to even continue racing. So for him to get that shot at two-door things could be a game changer for his career. And hopefully we see him racing. Like he's level-headed that you're right. I mean, that's the guy you want. And then we have the, the well-known published case now of, I mean,

we don't know if he's going to get a contract or not, but this Canadian guy, uh, Jack Burke, do you know anything about him? George, the guy who broke all those Strava records of Alpe d'Huez, Stelvio and. Oh yeah. I don't know anything about that, but that's pretty wild. The times he's doing, there's a, there's another Canadian kid that's actually training here in Greenville. That's breaking all the records here as well. That's doing the e-sports Zwift thing. So who knows?

Maybe we'll get some more canadian names coming out what is this jack burke guy doing uh he was he's uh these are these aren't uh overpasses stelvio alptowez what else is he and mortirolo jesus yeah yeah yeah i mean it's it's uh it was pretty impressive we talked at length about it with spencer martin in uh in the move plus the other day um of course you know it's it's a one-off attempt right it's not a race or but i checked out some of his uh rights and it was uh very very recently so it's super cold the the day he broke the albues uh sprava record it was sap goose who had it you know it's not the record the all-time record but it's the the strava record and uh he did it on his own but i mean it was uh it was five degrees at the bottom and zero degrees at the top when he did that he's that's uh record so pretty impressive i have to

say yeah all right and then before we get out of here, of all these, these big names, I know you have four there behind you, but let's call it five with Alaphilippe. Which, what ends up being the best transfer for a team? Like who, who performs the best of all of them? Who was the best of the best? Who was the, who was the smartest acquisition this i think in my opinion it's simon yates i agree with that simon totally that's yeah yeah for what he does for the program now maybe not as we've talked about not the guy that gets you into certain

races that that's worth something then there's's the guy that potentially wins a race. That's also worth something, but consistently over the course of the season, what he does for the team. Well, and let's, let's not forget the injuries these guys had last year. I mean, the guys that they lost,

uh, except Kuz was sick. Um, uh, Steph cries with the, their climbers basically, except for Mateo Jurgensen, we're all hurt or injured.

So now if you throw in Simon Yates, Mateo Jurgensen, were all hurt or injured. So now if you throw in Simon Yates, Matteo Jurgensen, the rest of these climbers, I mean, they could have four or five guys in a group of 10 in these last, you know, these queen stages of the Grand Tours now. I think it's a great, great move. Yeah, but then the question is, George, does it matter? Yeah, that took the words out of my mouth.

Let's hope so mouth let's hope so let's hope so it was on another level it's going to be, I'm curious to see because you know one season like this it's not easy to replicate you know something can happen don't you just have

I'm not getting in line to bet against it my spidey sense is like here we go again and I'm not getting in line to bet against it. I mean, just my spidey sense is like, here we go again. It's and I'm with you. Like you can hire, I'm going to bet against it. I'm going to bet against it. Can I say why? I know we talked about this, but, but, um, what we saw him go through, you know, our, our, uh, why can't I think of his name right now? Oh my goodness. Uh, Jonas Vindigo, what he went through last year. I mean, didn't touch his bikes for six weeks.

Yes. He said he did his best power numbers ever, but that's gotta affect you. I mean, that's gotta for him to bounce back from that being heaven won the tour de France two times, bounce back from arguably, um, you know, career ending injury to getting second place in the tour. This has got to give some hope to him and the team. And I'm hoping for some closer battles next season. It will be closer, but I honestly think that Bogota is still improving. Yeah. Vingegaard is working hard. I just saw a little video I'm actually Wednesday

I'm going that way with my son and two of his mates to to Calpe he's Wingergaard is doing intervals on Calderots right now flying up that mountain yeah you guys I mean you guys constantly give me shit about how much I ride I'm curious to see the Strava stats of

old Johan Brunel's 2024 season because I feel like you probably have more than all of us this year. I have, I think I have more than you, George. Well, wait, but to go back to this, I know you guys get, you're going to go over to the Calpe in Spain and, and, and stock. You own a finger guard. No, no, absolutely not. Listen, first of all, that area, 16 of the 18 world tour teams are there now or will be there over the winter.

So it's the place to be. No, we're just going on our own. We have a little place there to, we can stay and we're just going to go four days. Just ride it before we go off to Belgium for Christmas. For the holiday. But by the way, I do, I, I think Christian should go out there on the the colder ruts well well just he will he will definitely just hang on the wheel as long as i want to know how long 500 meters that's 500 meters that's a long time i would jump over the moon to hang on his wheel for 500 meters uh the colderderata is actually the race, the, the, the place where Vingegaard was discovered. Yeah. Right. We remember.

It's a, it's amateur team. They do a test there every year and every year they, they try to break the record. They last year, they had a guy, a young guy. I forgot his name now, but he's already on Eneos for the future. So every year they go back there and uh jonas is still still out there uh you're already putting the hard miles in i'm with both of you i don't think it matters but i hope it does it just it it let's hope it does and i'm also with you john there's i think pogachar um still has some improving to do.

And this is the story we constantly tell this younger generation. By the way, too, Spencer did do some interesting analysis on the average age of these transfers or the way the teams are evolving. That's a real trend. Like the sport is just getting younger and younger. So we'll see where this intersects with what pocahontas now or you know ripe old age of 26 maybe 26 yeah yeah you know 20 years ago you thought he's just getting started dear god all right everybody we'll see you back here again for the up and comer show,

which is, is, uh, as I said, I think to our members in the pre-show, I love that show just because this is where Johan, I mean, he always shows that he's a genius, but I like he does with those up and comers. Jeez. You got a list already. I'm working on it. I added one today actually to the list. How many like on your list, if you did the show tomorrow, how many you got on the list? Seven for the moment. That's pretty good.

Oh yeah. And his hit rate folks, you can go back. You can just listen to all the other years of the up and coming show. The hit rate's pretty high, pretty high. And that will be, is that after the holidays? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, if 2025. Okay. and that will be is that after the holidays yeah yeah yeah okay well if 2025

okay so if we don't talk to any all before that have a happy holidays Merry Christmas all that stuff and thanks for tuning in and we'll by the way every week every week we have an overview of the weekly news Spencer

and I on the move plus check it out. Keep going, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks guys. Yeah.