THEMOVE - Are Cyclings Mega Transfers Worth It Trades Transfer Themove

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Johan Bruyneel, George Hincapie, and Spencer Martin break down the off-season's top transfers, including the big money moves of Remco Evenepoel to Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe, Juan Ayuso to Lidl-Trek, and Biniam Girmay to NSN, and debate if these massive sums are ultimately worth it, or if Ineos' lower-key strategy is the way to go. They also discuss Visma's restrained off-season, Soudal-QuickStep's Classics resurgences, and Johan reveals where Derek Gee will be riding in 2026. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Huel: Huel makes healthy eating simple. They also just launched into Target stores nationwide! Try both products today with FIFTEEN PERCENT off your purchase for New Customers with our exclusive code THEMOVE at https://www.huel.com/THEMOVE. ROKA: Listeners can enter code THEMOVE at checkout to receive a 20% discount on their first order at https://www.roka.com/themove AG1: Head to https://DrinkAG1.com/themove to get a FREE Welcome Kit, including an AG1 Flavor Sampler and a bottle of Vitamin D3 plus K2, when you first subscribe! Tushy: Join the 3 million butts who have already made the switch to TUSHY! For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use code WEDU10 at checkout. That's 10% off your first bidet order at https://HelloTUSHY.com with promo code WEDU10. OneSkin: For a limited time, try OneSkin for 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co/THEMOVE. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you.  

Little Threck is the new team for Derek G. He's going to go to, he is going to Little Trek. I know you guys. Collaborating news here on the move. You guys need to be careful because you know, you're either directly or indirectly involved still with cycling. I can say it. He's going to Little Trek. You will see.

Everybody, welcome back to The Move. I am Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Brunel and George Hinkapi for our annual trades and transfers episode. we'll be going through the biggest transfers of the offseys, which is still happening. So some of it will be somewhat speculative, but we have Vermcoe, Evanapulta, Red Bull, Borah, Houndsgrove. We have Beny and Grimida, Innocent, cycling, and want to use it a little trek is probably our three biggest transfers, but we're going to break them down and then some of how this structurally will work and how a few things could actually happen.

But first, let's hear from a few of our partners for today, and then we'll get right into it. Everybody, this episode is brought to by Hewell. Every December I tell myself, this is a year. I'm going to stay locked into that routine. And then suddenly I'm traveling like this week off the Spain, hanging out with Johan, going to the UA team camp. I don't have time for full meals. But that's where Hewell is helping me big time. That's Heuel, H-U-E-L. I've been using Hewels ready to drink in it. I'm leaning on it hard this week. It's a complete meal in a bottle, 35 grams of protein, 7 grams of fiber and 27 vitamins and minerals. No prep, no mess. Just grab it

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was just down in what I called the Grand Palace. You told me is the grand plas of Brussels. Beautiful with the Christmas markets out there. But we've been digging deep into these. The funny thing about being on the Costa Blanca is you can hear, you can read about all these transfer things. And then you can actually see with your own eyes, who is with what team.

So I've been dining at some of these hotels just this morning for breakfast, trying to see if I could get my eyes on a few of these riders. But first of all, I think the biggest transfer of the season, Remko Evanapole, leaves Sudol Quicksap, goes to Red Bull Borough, Hans Groh. George, I'm going to go to you first because I know what Johan's going to say about this. But what do you think about this move? Well, I mean, arguably, if you can't get Pokachar, you got to go after Remko. And they're the biggest next to UAE, the biggest budget in the Peloton. They got to make big moves.

say maybe perhaps, you know, starting to lose hope that Primos is going to win the Tour de France or Primos is going to keep winning as much as he has been winning. And that's, I get the next logical step. You got the money. We're out to the second biggest name of the sport, a rider who's, you know, with the exception of Pogachar being there, dominated some of the biggest races in the world, world championships, world championships of time trials, Olympic Games, third place of the Tour de France, won the Welta. So I think if you got the money, you can afford to go after a guy like that, it would be a good thing.

And they have, obviously, Lipowitz, who is podium in the Tour de France last year. They still have Primos. They got an incredible roster behind them. It's making big news already. So I see it as a positive move for that team. Yeah, I think also for Remko himself, to me it looked like at Sudal, he was. maxed out in terms of resources. And for him, and knowing he's a perfectionist and wants everything to do in the tiniest little detail, he goes to an environment now where I had the

impression that at Soudal, he had to come up with the ideas. He had to propose and then the team tried to fulfill his wishes. And this is now a completely other situation. They think for him, they do for him. He actually said in an interview in the Belgian media that he already feels like all he needs to do is pedal his bike and everything else is organized for him. You know, just a tiny little example. If on certain teams, you could say Sudal, probably movie star a few times. We had the example of Matteo Jorgensen. A little bit similar, not the same level rider, but similar situation going from a movie start to Visma. You know, these guys take the initiative.

They go on a training camp. They have to ask for a mechanic, ask for a massage therapist, ask for two teammates. And then the team says, okay, yeah, okay, we agree. They can go with you. Here it's different. It's the whole team that goes. They go to the Tate or to Sierra Nevada. You know, it's the whole team.

All the, you know, all the riders are going to ride with that leader, a full team of staff. you know vehicles it just feels different in my opinion I think for specifically for the personality and a character like Remko that's worth a lot like not having to worry about if everything going to be taken care of personally I feel like the the transfer amount I've heard you know behind the scenes but I think the numbers are right that Red Bull paid seven million to Sudal as a buyout and he only had one year left on the contract. Okay, if he signs a three-year deal, you can spread it over three years, but still,

it's a big gamble in my opinion. But I am convinced that Remko had to try something new. And I think Red Bull is probably the best option for him. I mean, for Remko, I think it's a great option. Especially I was embedded with the UAE team Emirates camp the last few days. And you can see firsthand like how much like the resources these big, big teams have. And I do think that would help you a lot versus just being by yourself, riding around. Obviously, you're getting good training.

But there is something to be set for having the infrastructure around you. And Johan, we might have to just listen to you because we are going back to last year's show. It's this same show. And he said, Simon Yates would be the most important transfer of the offseason. and then he won the Giro d'Itel on his new team. So pretty good call there. But I'd like this move. I actually like it for kind of an oddball reason.

Like Red Bull bore hands grow, probably for money spent and then results gained in one-day races was probably the worst team in 2025. Really struggled in one-day races. I don't believe they had a, I don't believe they had a top five in a single podium unless I'm missing someone. But, you know, Remko is like, he's automatic, at least some sort of result in these hilly one day races. So right there, they have something. GC at the tour, I think it kind of gets a little awkward. Does it not? You just had a guy finished third at the tour to France.

And then now you have Rimco go. I think we said on Friday, neither of them is going to win. So don't worry about that. Just do the best you can. But the money involved, I just can't get my head around this. that it was what a 7 or 8 million euro buyout plus the annual salary, which must be around 5 million euros a year, that's a huge investment.

I mean, if you were spending that much money, what would define success for you as a team manager if you spent that much money on a rider? I mean, first of all, I think he needs to win a big one-day race, perfectly possible. He needs to win one or more than one of those seven iconic. one-week stage races, you know, Tirino, Vice Basco,

Dofine, Tour of Switzerland, something like that, and he's the podium in a grand tour. And, I mean, world championship,

tantral, I'm going to say, it's an almost guarantee. You know. How much does that mean for the team? I think it means, I mean, they already won.

To have a world champion. They won two grand tours, right? They won two grand tours. They won the, Elta with Roglidge and they won the Giro with Jayhinde. Yeah. So, you know, they haven't won the tour.

And as long as Pogaccia and Wingergaard are going for it, they're probably not going to win it. So then, you know, you look at what's the best possible next thing to win. And I think Remko can win most of those races. Let's not forget, Remko is still young. So I think maybe in their mind he's not reached his limits yet. We're maybe perhaps, you know, Jonas is getting closer to his limits. You can never say this about Pogocharges. He keeps just doing whatever.

But maybe they're justifying the fact that, you know, he's, what is he on 25 now? He's 25. And by the way, a little side note, he just got voted for the fifth time. He's 25 for the fifth time sportsman of the year in Belgium. Sportsman of the year, not cyclist of the year. Sportsman of the fifth time. For the fifth time, I'm 25 years old. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, I would say they're banking on him improving. Obviously, he's best time trellis in the world. And, you know, this year he had some health issues at the Tour de France. Going to come back, super motivated to do at least equal his performance of 2024. And like Johan said, with the backing that he has now,

it's, you know, all he has to do is pedal is the bike. And I think that does a lot for a rider's mentality. And I think it's also not necessarily a bad thing to have, you know, Lippewitz there. As you know, we said, you know, they're not the favorites to win the tour. So, you know, you can't really bank everything your whole team on a guy who has once been a podium because a lot of things can go wrong. Like Lippewitz.

I mean, he's still obviously Lippewitz is going to improve. but even if Lipowitz approves, I don't think he's anywhere close to the level of Bogacha and Jonas. So I don't necessarily dislike the fact that they have two leaders for the tour. Plus, it gives also opportunities for, for example, Primos for the Vuelta, and Pelizari and probably Jai Hindley for the Giro. You know, cycling is not just a tour de France, especially if you can't win it. Yeah, no, I do agree with you there, that if, the situation there in two is better than one and think about vizma when they had

brugledge then they had then they have yonis suddenly and then oh they have two and good thing they had them because now he's their star riders so it's i think it's good i think and you know it's crazy george i don't think you were there for this so we just named those riders on red bull there's another rider we're not named that finished on the podium of a grant tour in the last two years on that team can you name this writer guess yeah uh that you that we did not name. You name Primos, right? Yeah. We said we named Primos, we named Jay Hindley, Julio Pellizari, Remko Evanapole. Yeah. It's another guy who has a podium of a grand tour. No, I'm going blank. And not, it's not long ago. And he is, I mean, you have two

nationalities, right? He's your other nationality. Oh, Martinez. Is that crazy? Danny Martinez. Yeah. Yeah. So then we have to ask ourselves this to what if they took completely changed the game around, so to speak, and go for the World Cups or the early season classics, and then send all these guys to the tour. I mean, it'd be interesting on paper to see how that works out. Look, nothing else is working. Up to now, nothing else is working.

Yeah. They send them all there. They already announced their roster, right? I mean, they already announced that the tour is only, it's Lipowitz and Remko and Primos is the, Vuelta and Berizari and Indley is the Giro, right? Yeah. But George, I was actually thinking about this on my drive this morning.

It's intoxicating thought, but then how would they position anyone for climbs, right? You'd need at some point riders that can help them move around because if you have four G.C. leaders could be a little hard to do that. Four G.C. leaders and four classic guys. One classic guy for each G. Spencer, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I don't, I mean, I don't think that way. I mean, it's not going to happen.

But let's say if they have these four guys, right, for the, for the tour, it's, I mean, they still don't have to carry the weight of the race. It's UAE. And maybe sometimes Visma, but it's just, okay, these four guys have just tried to hang on as long as they can. And it's not that much positioning in the mountain stages, you know? Yeah. You guys are really good bike handlers. I don't know.

I just worry you look back in Remko's 100 riders deep going into a key. The only time we've seen Pogach crack in the last five years is when they had three guys against one. It's not. No, there's definitely something to that. Yeah. Yeah. And then even then, George, I think, you know, they had three guys against one and and Bolacha made all the mistakes. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. But speaking of Remco, speaking of Remco, Spencer, in one of our former shows, you know, we talked about, you know, there were these rumors and hints that maybe he would do Milan San Remo and Turo Flanders. And I said it was a bad idea. So I don't know.

Maybe they listened to the show. I did finally say that Remko was not going to do the Tura Flanders. So I like that. Suspiciously close to what you said would be a good idea. But no, but you say Pagot, Pagaccio made mistakes, but he made mistakes because there was, so much coming at them, right? There's so many riders, it's like he can't keep track of

them all these chasing guys. He shouldn't chase. And I don't know, George, maybe it is a good idea. Yeah, not only chasing, but like making huge, huge efforts on, you know, what is arguably one of the hardest climbed in the Alps. That was the most exciting tour we've seen in a long time. So that's why I mentioned the possibility of that. And if they're listening, who knows, maybe they change it up a little bit. Zach Dempster making changes right now, editing that Google Doc. I'm going to skip I'm going to skip Binyam. Let's go to Wano Uso because it just keeps us in the GC theme.

And there's another theme here. So Wano Uso goes from UAE to Little Trek. Waino Uso personally provided us with the most entertainment that we got out of the Vuelto Spagna recently. So thank you, Juan, for that. And it culminated. And we were watching this race thinking there's no way he can go back to this team. He doesn't.

He goes to Little Trek in the middle of the race. Fantastic writer. Finished on the podium of a grand tour as a teenager, I believe, Johann, 19 years old, Well, to Spainia, has won multiple stages of grant tours. He can win one day, like these Portuguese early season one day races. He's just riding off the front. Has he won? Has he won stages in Grand Tours?

Wait. It was like all we talked about this summer. Remember where he won like he just took off on his own? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I'm welcome.

Like an absurd amount of stages. Two. Two. He won three. No, he went two. three. Oh, wait, wait, but one was Oh, the team time trial.

Team time trials. Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That actually, if you're trying to, I'm trying to come up with a formula to rank GC riders and the team time trials do mess you up. But he's won two stages that Torano won the overall. Terrano, I believe he won a flat time trial at Torano. That's crazy, by the way. But really good writer, goes to Little Trek, shows are serious. He is only 23 years old.

I believe. Also, with a contract still running contract. So the second big transfer with a contract, which is still another team. So another buyout. And cost them 10 million euros for the buyout. That is crazy. Not including this annual salary. Another huge investment. You'd say, let's just say like let's just do this. Positive. He's a massive engine, massive talent. You think who can beat Pagachar, who can beat Vindigard, can beat Remko, almost nobody. He's talented enough. He could do it. No.

Natives. You know, are just kidding. Negatives has not proven that he can't do it consistently. Johan, you can go first. Do you like this move to Little Tray? Yeah, for, I mean, listen, for him, I think it's great. It's a team. And also, I go back to what George said initially, you know, if you can't have those two top

dogs, then who else can you have? And then, you know, Ayuso is super interesting because he's so young. We all know he's a big talent. You know, you don't get third in the world at 19. And then, you know, he's pure class, right? So they didn't have a writer for G.C. Or a big leader for G.C. I think it's a great combination.

I'm just a bit worried about the amount of money involved. I mean, 10 million buyout. I mean, it's a lot better than the ridiculous 100 million. in buyout, which was in his contract. Got a huge deal. This is real. This is real. I mean, it was 100 million euro buyout clause, which I said was, you know, illegal. And I don't think you could enforce that. But still, 10 million is, in my opinion, it shows the commitment of little to cycling and how they look long-term.

So, yeah, I think it's a great, it's a great combination. Little track needed, a rider like that. If all these other riders are not available, who's next, it's Ghanaiuso. And you actually invest in potential for the future. So it's hard to imagine Juan Yusu not improving in the next two or three years. Yeah, I've got to go with Johan. I mean, 23 years old. Coming from a team where he was even though a super rock star,

wrote him at 19 years old, but also arguably fourth, fifth in line in terms of GC riders in that particular team he was on. So I think mentally coming to the little track, although he's already saying that Matt Peterson is the leader, he's coming to this team with, you know, being for sure the lead GC rider. Of course, they have scale modes and they have Chaconi. But historically, I would say he's probably got the most potential. It's going to be do wonders for his confidence being on a team like that with not only, guys like Skelmos who can climb with the best in the world.

Chaconi can climb with the best in the world. But if they all kind of align resources, they can really help them succeed at his goals. I think coming into a race like the Giro where you're sort of like in the media fighting for your role of leadership, very tough for a rider like that. Also with a rider, a similar age to him in Del Toro. I think just mentally that kind of knocked him off his game for the rest of the year.

So I can see this being a good move, although in these numbers that we're spitting out these days is crazy what what's going on in the cycling world I mean 10 million per buyout we haven't really seen that ever so it's going to be interesting move but little check continues to to grow their program top three top three four teams in the world and they're definitely putting their money where the mouth is yeah and and I just wanted to you know continue on that so they did was the press day two three or three days ago and Did you guys see that statement that Juan Yuso read about UAE? No.

I didn't see this. So he read a statement at the press day. First, before his interview, he read a statement and saying, you know, that he had a great time at UAE, that, you know, he was so thankful and grateful for giving him an opportunity for growing him and that he apologized for things he said in September. I read, I mean, it was a written statement he read, which was I don't know, it was part of the deal because he apologized. And it looked like a very, like, obligated exercise.

And then... 10 million plus an apology. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then after that statement, they asked him about... So what do you think about little frecky in the environment here? How do you feel? I said, oh, it's so much better.

That's what he said. I do think that's a lot of money. I am now looking at results for the year. He did win a grand tour stage before the Volta, the Giro to tell you that we forgot about that he was the leader at for a while or he was supposed to be the team leader at that world championships race. Now that I'm remembering that, pretty impressive, right? One of three riders to go, one of two riders to go away with Bagachar cracks, but, you know,

everybody cracked. Finish the six. That's pretty good. I don't finish is eighth. Finish six that European championships. The question I think that you have to ask is, so 10 million euro buyout plus this annual salary, what else could you do for that money and would it be more productive than Ju-Uso?

I mean, it's maybe not an obvious yes, but I think the only thing you can, the only thing you can do was obviously be a lot less money, but it's just, you know, spend a lot of money on research and invest in younger talent. You know, that's the only thing you can do. There's nobody else available. And nobody else, I mean, he is in the top five, six riders of the world. And they have their sprinting game covered, you know, with Milan and Mads Peterson. So obviously they want to focus on GC as well.

So they're covering all the angles. They got the money. They might as well get, you know, top five. GC rider in the world. But I guess if you have a big team owner now, right? Little about like 50% of the team, Johan, is that right? Yeah, majority owner now. So if they say it's like Red Bull, they came in about 51% of that team.

They say, we want to win the Tour de France. How do we win the Tour de France? I mean, what are you going to say to them? You say, well, okay, there's Pagachar. You're not going to get him. There's Jonas. You're not going to get him. There's Remko.

There's Juan of Uso. I don't know who else. You would even say there is a team that didn't do this that got creative and we'll talk about them in the second half. But let's do a quick ad break and then we'll talk about Binion Burmai and then we'll talk about other ways teams could have done this without spending this much money. Everybody, this episode is brought to by AG1, the daily foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health. I drink AG1 every day and I give it a try because I'm not that good at drinking supplements, taking supplements, or really eating greens. As embarrassing as that is to say out loud, I'm awful at it.

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That's O-N-E-Skin.com slash the move. one skin.co slash the move. After you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show by saying, we sent you. Again, that's one skin.c.co slash the move. Okay, so we're back. So the not a GC transfer. Vinium Grimei goes from Intermarche Wanti, which kind of merged with Lotto and is now

Lotto intermarche kind of was an acquisition or Lotto coming in and taking the sponsor and then taking the pickup team and staff members. We've seen it with our own eyes here, Spencer, several times, like, you know, the Lotto and the Lotto guys and the inter-marschaire riders. It's not the same. Like you see all these teams riding around. And, for example, today I saw Decathlon and then all of a sudden there's one yellow guy,

each penote, for example, with his still, with his Visma. But this is really, you can see the mix, right? It's half and half for, you know, two-thirds and one-thirds. So, yeah, that's. But anyway, bin Yom Grimai didn't make that move. And he doesn't make the move because the innocent cycling team, which used to be Israel Premier Tech, will be called innocent cycling for 2026, doesn't make the move because, A, he gets paid to two million euros, perhaps more per season going over there.

That has to be substantially more than he was making. And he was going to have to switch teams anyway. You know, the team merges, you go to a new team. It's not like he could stay at Intermerché was going. to cease to exist as he knew it. He had to go. And if he stayed, he'd have to be competing with Arna Dele. We've seen out there on the roads. That guy's looking motivated. I wouldn't want to compete with that guy for sprint opportunities. Two years younger, very good rider. Now he goes to NSN. He's the star writer on the team. I personally like it. What do you think

about this, Johan? Yeah, I think it's great for him. And it's great for the team also. as we said in our last podcast Spencer we don't know the level of Gip Ma for 2006, 2025 was not great. 2004 is not that far away and he won the green jersey in three stages in the tour. Still young also, only 25 years old also. I think younger than Remko, I believe. Yeah, he's that generation because I do remember that they race together in the juniors. and Biniam was, as I said, last time, the only writer in juniors who beat Remko in a one in a face-to-face race.

But, no, I think, listen, I think it's great. It's also, I think it fits into the transition of that team going from Israel Premier Tech to NSN. It's a completely brand new identity and the fact that Girmai is now the new face fits into that narrative. I think. Yeah, I like the move as well. I mean, you know, obviously they're paying them quite handsomely. But like you guys mentioned, 2024 was a standout year for them. Who knows what was going on behind the scenes in 2025.

Obviously, with the team having to merge, which indicates that perhaps they were not doing well, budget-wise, which, you know, you start seeing teams cut corners that affects the riders in many ways. So for a rider like Bingham Grimm-Grimay, going to NSN with full support behind them, a good salary. I think it'll help it a lot with his confidence, his motivation. And I could see him getting back to his level of 2024. He is in basketball you called a streaky shooter, someone who will miss a lot and then they make a lot in a row.

He kind of has that tendency, even when you go back to his best years where he'll be, remember he won again, Wevelgum. And in your mind, you compress all these results, but actually had a long fallow period between that and winning the green jersey at the tour.

He's a bit up and down. And his season, you look back last year, it's not quite as bad as you remember. Seventh at Gend-Wevelgum, second opening stage of the tour. You know, a couple things go differently. Third in the points classification, that's not the worst season of all time.

I do kind of worry, you know, we talked about this on Friday. It's a lot of money. Does the inconsistency catch up to him? As I said last time, Spencer, I think what we, I mean, what we don't know, but I can imagine, you know, a lot of the inconsistency and the, you know, maybe less good season of Gittemai had to do with worries about his team. You know, I mean, he knows there's no budget. He knows that he was still waiting for his bonus from the Tour de France, which apparently never have been paid. Yeah.

You know, I mean, you don't, you can't have that as a rider. And on top of that, it's a rider who has the responsibility to carry the whole weight of the team. That's not good. And I think from that point of view in this new team now, he won't have to worry about all that. So I think he can bounce back. Yeah, the moment you're thinking, this team owes me money, but do I really need to risk my life here? This one, if you just hesitate for a second in our sport, it's almost impossible to win. So if that was in fact going on in his head, I could see why it might have

been effective as a result. Yeah. And I think it's important. I think this is huge for NSN. I like it a lot. I like it for Germai. He switches teams. He's going to have to switch teams anyway. He goes to a new team where he's the center of the universe. For NSN, it's big because you just changed the conversation. Like no one's talking about Israel Premier Tech, the protests anymore. Like you have been in your mind. The guy's super charismatic. I was at the last stage of the tour two or two years ago.

And I would easily say he had more fans there than any other rider. Just a huge star, off the bike, a big star, very charismatic, very likable. That's big for them. They can finally maybe start to turn the corner. It's maybe he's not producing on the road. But there's a lot of sprinters that make close to that. that don't necessarily produce a lot of results. So that could just be what it costs for a sprinter of that level.

I agree. Great move. I think for both thing and the team, it's going to make a lot of news, a lot of headlines. And like you said, a whole new motivation to get some results. And I can see this being quite successful for both parties. And so I mentioned a GC team or a team that wanted to make GC moves that didn't spend the big money for the buyouts. be Ineos. Enios was in talks to get both Juan Euso and Rem Cuevinable.

They did not. They signed Kevin Vuclon from Archaia B&B. Kevin Vaclon loved that team so much. He stayed with it until it folded. Egan Al goes to Enos. Very good writer. Has won a stage at the Tour de France, has finished top 10 at the Tour de France.

Good time, trial, good climber. That type of talent. It's someone who's not on a team that is paying a lot of money for him to be a great time trail list is very rare. They also signed Sam Wellsford, who is a sprinter. I only mentioned this because he was signed with the team a few months ago

or reportedly so. Then was not, now is. You ask yourself why, why? What was the delay? What happened there? And then, Johan, the big talk of the week is down on the Costa Blanca is where is Oscar-onle, because he's not at his picnic post in Elteam camp.

He had some quotes that one was like 15 teams are recording me and I forget the other one. It was like, I'm worth a lot more. This is not the quote, but it was something along the lines, I'm worth a lot more money now than I was before the tour.

It doesn't sound like someone going back to his team. Yeah. Is Oscar only going to Inios? Well, I mean, if he's not at the team camp, that's already not. I mean,

that's an indication that's something going on. I mean, I think Spencer, like we said last week, you know, since he's on picnic and Spake and Brink has this habit of selling riders, they still have a contract. This is a great opportunity. As we said, you know, financial insecurity for 27 and 28.

The license, they only got it for 26 and then they have to, you know, represent guarantees for the years after. I think he's going to, you know, choose, choose the money. And in Aos needs a Brit rider, star rider. I think it's a great match. And plus they have the money. So it's not going to be 10 million or seven million like these other guys. Not near that.

But he does have, I think he does have a 26, 27 still. It's not just 26. He still has 27 contract also with Picnic. So, yeah, he's not. not with picnic. I've seen many picnic groups here. I've not seen Oscar only anywhere. No. So is he already at the Iners camp? I don't know. Well, Spencer, weren't you just there? I don't know. You're breaking up, George. I can't hear you. I don't know. I don't know what he looks like, didn't see him. I think it's actually worked out. I think this probably just happenstance,

but he was down under, perhaps in Australia and New Zealand. And then he just got a hard. That was a holiday day. Yeah, it was holiday. And then who knows what it could. I mean, I don't even know what bike he's on. Like he's probably on his picnic bike. He's going to have to switch bike soon.

But I would guess that a deal has been done. Spring and brick needs a deal. Because if the UCI is not approving your license for three years, that's not a great sign. Yeah. You need a cash infusion at that point. This is a great way to do it. He's 23 years old, finished fourth at the Tour de France, is British.

And in my opinion, still has a lot, a big margin for improvement, I think. Yeah. Well, I like these riders like Vuclon, like Onley, that are on these really low budget teams, and they're holding their own. I mean, these were uphill time trials, so it's a little bit different. But Oscar Onley finished third at the final time trial of Switzerland, third overall. And then he finishes fourth overall to Twitter France finished seventh on one of the time trials. And the amount of work like Colanago is putting into these bikes for UAE, it's unbelievable. So the fact that he can compete with that is really impressive on that team.

Five years younger, the guy that they were rumored to be targeting was Derek G. But Onle is 23. Derek G is 28, I believe. finished fourth. Do you know who else finished fourth at the TudorFriends the year before they joined Team Sky? for Team Ennis. Bradley Wiggins. That's right.

With Garmin. With Garmin, yeah. Yeah, I just popped in my head. Maybe this is, but this is kind of what the... You can't compare that, Spencer. That's, you know, that's a completely different either. Bradley Wiggins had never focused on grand tours before that. He was focused on, you know, the track and he was a pursuit,

multiple world champion, Olympic champion. And then, you know, I think with that fourth place in 2009, right? He said, oh, you know, well, you know, this is, I can, I can do something here. And then went to Einos and, you know, they created that whole program around that to the France win. It took them 2010, 11, 12, took them three years, three years. Yeah. There's actually another writer at that race, writer Hedatel, who finished another, cross-discipline guy he finishes now maybe that was the next year 2010 he finishes fifth in

2010 and then wins a grant tour two years later with this year to tell you i believe in 2012 so it's not it's not a bad strategy to look at who are good riders finishing top five at the tutor france we should sign that rider probably a pretty good move there's no doubt he broke he broke barriers this year um i surpasses his he's probably his own beliefs in terms of himself and aggras and the grand tour rider and going to any os i mean they're going to focus a lot more on aerodynamics and having the best of the best equipment we can definitely see him getting to be a much better time trialer you know under their tutelage and then of course kevin vacillin makes a ton of sense because they have their direct energy as a co-sponsor now so they're going to have to

go out they're going to go out for the best one of the best french riders as well and just those two moves would be really good for any else in my opinion i mean i'm sure it cost them a lot of money At least Onley, but Vauklon, that was an expiring deal. I don't think they could buy them out. So they got, I think they got, we're assuming they get Oscar Onley. Let's just assume that's happened. That's two really good GC riders and they did not spend $10 million or $10 million euros and buying it out.

I assume that's not what Oscar Onley costs. No, no, no. I think I like this. I like these moves a lot. I think these are really, really savvy. I mean, I was about to say, Johan, well, he's the best British writer, so it makes sense he would go there. But maybe he's not. Maybe Matthew Brennan would be considered the best British writer.

What about Simon Yates, who just won the Giro? Oh, man. A lot of good British writers. I don't know. No, but I guess, you know, Matthew Brennan is just, I mean, different type of writer, but it's super. I mean. And he's on. This guy is insanely talented.

It's so good. Very good. George, if you were, let's say, an American finish, not on your team finishes fourth of the tour, he's on a smaller team. How much would you pay for that, for that countryman? Oh, I mean, we're just seeing the game. We're witnessing the game. The whole game changed right now.

I mean, now if you're an American, young American getting fourth place in the tour, they're going to have to pay up for that. is that I would say you're paying Bingham Gramer May 2 million as an emeritus you'd have to be well north of that number I would say it depends on depends on the interest of the sponsor also correct yeah yeah I think for in that in that case here now like in only is is in a great position because he's a British rider there's a possibility to leave and you have a British the biggest one of the biggest teams which which is a UK team with with with the budget so But yeah, I think only is going to be any nails.

It's a matter of days, I think. And do you know who we've not mentioned in any of this? What major team? No Vizma. In fact, Vizma has mostly been shedding expensive riders. Like you think of Dylan Van Barrel. And they're older. They're good riders, obviously, just getting older.

That's all time works. But they are becoming less productive with time. I mean, maybe Jonas and the bout are plateauing, but they're not winning more. They lose Olaf Koi to DeKathlon, who is making a lot of moves. Also, they signed Matthew Rickettello, DeKathlon, spending a lot of money, presumably, in the transfer market. Yeah, Olaf Koi is, in my opinion, Spencer. Sorry to interrupt. It's one of the big transfers of the year also.

Great sprinter, young. I think it's a great move for the Catalan because, you know, they have this young talent in Paul Seychas, but, you know, you can't put all the pressure on that guy. And Koi knew that when he was stayed in Visma, he was not going to do the Tour de France. Now he has a guarantee to do the Tour de France. And he's actually the leader of the team for the Tour de France. So again, a huge contract. I mean, three million per year for all of Koi. See, that makes the Grimei contract seem better.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. They're almost the same age. Yeah, but Koi is definitely one of the top sprinters. One of a lot of races. Yeah, I think we called him maybe the best. We were obviously wrong, but I think at some point at the season, we said he's maybe the best sprinter in the sport. Obviously, it's Jasper Philipson, but he's really good, really good. Is it Jasper Phillips?

I mean, well, George, maybe you need to weigh in here. If we define sprinter by win sprint stages at Grant Tour. Okay. Yes for Phillips and it's not even close. It gets a little bit more. For some reason, Tim Merlier is far better. I think the fastest, the super fastest pure sprinter, in my opinion, is Tim Malir. What do you think, George?

Yeah, I would say he's probably the fastest, the most powerful would be Jonathan Milan. He's just, you know, not very arrow at all, but he's just full. Big guy, bull power, you know, probably bullies away around the front. We have different, obviously different spinners that are very successful. Matt Peterson, I mean, the guy can win a classic and then win a field sprint as well. I mean, I feel like the sprinters these days is just so much more dynamic. Philipson's already talking about maybe perhaps not focusing as much on the sprint thing as he is on races like Paris Rebaix, which we've seen him get second place a couple of times now. Twice, two times.

Yeah. One Milan is on Rainbow, one Milan on a monument. Yeah, once in the game has changed as far as sprinters go. And it's tough to pick out who's the best. But Olau Koi, for sure, he won a ton of races. It's a great move for DeKathlon, really focusing on their new bike as well, the Ven Ristel, which they want to display as one of the fastest bikes in the Peloton. So it just makes a lot of sense in terms of a marketability move to get a guy like Ola Koi.

Yeah. Did it really make sense for Vizma to keep him? Probably not. No. He's not going to go to the tour. So you're not paying him now. Someone else is paying him. DeCathlon.

You mentioned Koi. Yeah, let's say he wins a tour stage. What's that worth to DeKathlon? Probably a lot. It's probably worth the contract right there. It's more to DeKatlon than it's worth to Visma. Yeah. It isn't.

Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. And then they signed Matthew Rickettello, G.C. writer. Well, you're like, well, that's kind of weird because they have Palsé Shoss. But it's like what you said with Koi, it takes pressure off of Paul Seishos. So all of these signings are like getting stronger and taking pressure off.

To me, that's the big risk of having a, this whole thing makes me uncomfortable. Like you're riding on the road in France and he's just like, his name is written everywhere. And he's 18 years old. It's like this is not going to. Well, I like this. I like it in the sense that, you know, these teams, it's different. These teams are able to long term plan too. I mean, they're putting a lot of money, a lot of emphasis, a lot of planning around,

around the guy like Paul Sejas, who was 18 years old, getting. Rickettello is super young. They're like, okay, well, it might not happen next year, but they're clearly obviously planning for the future, which I like to see. Yeah, if it happens in five years, they're happy because they have these guys in between. But Vizma, shedding a lot, they bring in, I actually really like the signing, Louis Barre. They pick them off from the intermerche debacle closing. Very good writer.

I mean, this is what they do. They sign these guys, Christoph LePort, Victor Campan Arts. I mean, Victor Campanarcy, I think we thought that would be an interesting signing for them. I don't think we saw it being as important as it was. He's one of the most important domestics now. Very important, yeah. So I trust them, but they are not bringing in big money stars. Oh, they got to cover Jonas's payroll and VanArts payroll.

That's a good one. Yeah, they're Simon Yates. Simon Yates. Simon Yates. Those are all, you know, several million dollars. worth of payroll. I mean, the thing is also, if you look at Visma,

okay, you know, they got second in the tour, but they won the Giro and the Vuelta. You know, you don't have to improve that much, you know, as a team.

You're all over the place. And now, I mean, let's hope that Wout is back. I mean, let's not forget he won that last stage in the tour. You know, the only rider in a number of years who was able to drop Bogachar.

I think that victory for Walt, if he can build on that confidence and get back to the level that we expect him to be for the classics, that's, you know, I think this must find, man, in terms of leaders everywhere. I agree. Yeah, I mean, he potentially won two of the most iconic grand tour stages of the year. But the gravel stage, yeah, in the Gero. against the mini Pagatra's mini me at del Toro. I do worry if all your stars are over the age of 30, 30 or older, you are entering, you got to start planning. The estate planning must begin because they're not going to be around forever.

Matthew Brennan. Matthew Brennan. That's not, yeah. Team Brennan, he might be contesting the overall to Tour France at the rate. This guy is. No, but you mean, Spencer, at the classics, like, I mean, races like Gan Bevel Gam and, and, E.3 and Wargam and Matthew Brennan, man, he's going to be there, you know.

Remember Rubet? He was like second wheel for the first 100K. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen a first time or do that at that age. Yeah. And they were probably, you know, he probably had more of a helper's role there than art. I think they would probably give them a free card next year, both of them. I mean, I'm sure Johan would probably do something similar. And we didn't even mention Jorgensen. I mean, he's not getting any worse by any means. Still won Perry and East last year and always up there with top five climbers in the world. So yeah, they're focused on their top five, six guys and I think they're like Yohan said, doing really well in that, in that, with that strategy.

And they got Louis Barre right now. So they got to go Louis Barre. I like the signing. Yeah, I think you've mentioned, I mean, we're you, someone, someone mentioned old riders here, but Alpison, I thought this was really interesting. I think this was for legitimate financial reasons. They were unsure about what, because they knew DeKonek was stepping back from the title sponsorship slot. So they started just shedding salary aggressively, like in the middle of the summer. They ended up bringing on Premier Tech as the co-title sponsor.

So maybe they're a better financial position they thought. But they got rid of pretty much every highly paid rider over the age of 30 that was not a super stuff. I think what happened, Spencer, is, you know, if you look at, for example, Johnny Vermeer's, Quint and Hermann's, there were teams that paid probably double or triple the contract. So as a team like Alpacin and you have, you're still uncertain about your second most important sponsor. You just can't match that. You know, you can't even. I think Johnny Vermeers has almost signed for almost three times the amount he was making at Alpacin.

So as a rider in your 30s, you just have to take that deal. And as a team, you have to say, hey, you know what, take it, please. Like, it signs straight away because this is your lifetime deal. So they are, I mean, if you look at these guys, I guess it's good than Hermann's, Johnny Vermeer's there's another guy. There's another guy that goes to Q36.5, I think. So it's Zandro? Do you know?

Murice. Murissi. Yeah. Marise. Yeah. Good ride. I mean, solid rider. Same thing.

You know, I mean, you can't. Robby's, leaves. He can't enter into that bidding war with these teams who go after your riders, who are a solid base, but, you know, you can't, especially if you have Vanderpoole and Phillips and and Caden Groves, who are highly paid riders, right? So, and win a lot of races. The middle part is replaceable. And Alpacin is actually, the Rotov brothers are extremely good at bringing guys that are solid, but maybe not big names. And you say, oh, hey, where does this guy come from? But he's so good.

Yeah. That's the team, man. I like their way of working. They get the maximum mob of a rider, for sure. I think Daniel Benson had a piece where he was like it was salary bans for each type of writer and he deduced that Alpelson was the team with the least mid-class middle middle-class riders. So you're rather a superstar. You're Matthew Vanderpull or you're a winner like a race winner like Vanderpull, Caden Rose. You ask for Philipson or you work you work for them and help them win.

They just avoid probably because they're very smart like you say they avoid pain. top dollar to riders that are going to get, sounds cruel, like get old on their payroll and stop producing when they could just go sign. And they're also the key to this, Johan is being based in Belgium and they just pick the best cycler cross riders that are Belgian. And they're like, hey, you want to go ride some classics for Matthew Annapult? They're like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. And that's what they do. So they have an advantage, but that is how they survive. It's how they keep this going. We forgot the name Tibor del Grosso on that team. That's an amazing talent, incredible challenge.

Potentially one of the ones. Also on the road, not just in Cyclocross. Yeah, like a new winner. Remember this stage at, I was just trying to look this up as, as I was thinking. Vota Catalonia. Yeah, where he was on the front for. He went away in the downhill.

That's, that is actually the most, that's the most impressive performance I have seen of a writer who's not like Bogacchar or. Yeah. Matthew Brennan won that stage, by the way. So Del Grosso was at front and Brennan was on the front for at least two kilometers with Cady Groves on the wheel. When Cating Groves just won the field sprint in San Remo like three days before that. And he just let him out to catch Del Grosso and beat both of them. That was the most impressive win of the season in my opinion.

The performance wise I say, wow, how the hell did this happen? I rode with Stephen Kreiswick in Nice when I was there in September and I think he was in the race with him and I guess he told him. He was like, yeah, I was just looking at my Watts and I knew I could hold that number. It was like an 800 meters sprint that he was looking at his Watts knowing that he could hold that number. And one of the best printers in the world couldn't go around him. Yeah. Pretty wild. And I don't think we've mentioned it yet.

Where is Derek G going? That's the big transfer we don't know yet. That he was, he is, I mean, there's been, there's been rumors. You know, he's been, you know, rumored. First, first, let's say he was, I mean, looked like he was going to ENAeos, right? I was under the impression that he had a deal or was it a verbal deal or a promise to go to ENAOS. And that's why he made the decision to leave Israel Premier Tech. It turns out, I don't know if there was some kind of agreement or it didn't go through or if there was nothing.

but now all of a sudden turn around and seems like Little Trek is the new team for Derek G. He's going to go to, he is going to Little Trek. I know you guys. Collaborating news here on the move. You guys need to be careful because you know, you're either directly or indirectly involved still with cycling. I can say it. He's going to Little Trek. You will see.

Clip it. Clip it, Gabriel. That would be interesting. I did. Yeah. I mean, that would be a really interesting move with Iuso, you know, with Kelmos, with Chiconi, like, that would be. I think it speaks for what Little Track wants to accomplish.

They want to be present in all the big races. Derek G is probably going to go for the Gero. It was Ford already. I think it's, I mean, it makes sense for Little Track to cover all their bases. and be performing and they're not going to probably not going to win a grand tour unless iuso is in super form but i yusso goes to the tour so i yusso is not going to win the tour de france yet at least but i mean look these guys are these big teams now a successful grand tour is like what needle track can do like what bora can do the red bull boar is win stages and get on the podium yeah right now nobody's being poker char but exactly exactly they come out with you know happy with a result like that Well, you don't want to totally close the door on winning the grant tour. Who would have thought Simon Yates? They didn't sign Simon Yates thinking that's a grand tour win right there.

Well, he already won a grand tour before, Spencer. He did, but you would not make that signing in 2025. I personally don't think that Visma thought that Simon Yates would win the Gero. And I would say, we'd even go further. I think Simon Yates didn't think he was going to win the Gero before the season. And even before the jury. He might not have been the beginning of the last week. I thought he was going to win that in the show.

But, you know, you don't know. Like, Ayusa, it's zero in the Volta. Like, anything can happen. Who knows what happens? But where does this leave Mateus Schalmosa? Well, another surprise. You know, we've seen, I mean, and this is also the press, right? You know, I don't know if you read this when they announced the programs of the riders.

Yeah. So it was Ayuso for the tour. And then apparently, Matthias Kermosa said something that, okay, well, oh, are you to also do the Ardennes? That's news to me because I was promised sole leadership or something. But what did we see today? He just renewed until 2008 with Little Trek. So it's not such a bad place to be, I think.

I think, I mean, they also, these guys don't mess around. They decide they want a writer and they have a writer. You don't hear any rumors. There's no waffling. I also having spent some time at these media days recently some of these stories I I would take everything with a grain assault just people we were saying before before the show you know that Derek G could be an issue because you know he had a contract with as well Premier Tech you know was he was threatened to be sued by Adams now we've heard that that Adam said, okay, you know, any team who wants to sign Derek G is facing a lawsuit, you know, okay, you don't want to mess with a billionaire unless you're little. They are multi, multi, multi, multi billionaires. Yeah.

You know, so. The grocery business. That's a tough business. These guys. The owner of the team. So if that's a lawsuit, I know who's that going to, who's going to win that one? It's a really good point, Johann, because it would scare off an individual, like even wealthy individuals. But Liddle's a massive corporation.

They have a legal department. They have firms on retainer. They're not scared by that lawsuit. And I don't think we mentioned it, but just to say it really quick. Sid all quick stuff lost to Rimcovenant Pole, but now is doubling down on the classics. They bring in Dylan von Barre, Yasper. Phelipasor Stoeven, not yes for Philipson, Philippo Zana, who I am the one-man-filippo Zana fan club. I love this acquisition.

And then while Pauls and Victor Lafay go to Unabet Rose Rockets, which is pretty interesting. But now they'll be back at the Tour de France. So kind of an interesting Lafay. I mean, think of Lafay. That was George, we were just watching that tour two or two years ago. Yeah. And actually, he was, that's a really interesting story. He pretty much studied it done with cycling.

They called them up. What was he going to do? He was going to sell cheese and be Japan or something? Yeah, it's not a bad idea. It's an exciting project, that's for sure. Good move for them to get both those guys and Dylan Grone and Vega. So I think they've made some really big moves this year for next year. What, do you guys have anything else?

Any transfers I'm missing? No, are you getting me excited for the season? It's going to be good stuff. We're doing our daily tour on Under podcast. just in a few weeks, George, you can be on it. But I did want to. But anyways, we have to say also, Spencer, what have we working? Four years together now?

And we just met physically two days ago for the first time in four years. That's the first time you guys met in person? We had never met in person. Yeah. That's funny. I did not know that. And so we got the ride together. We had nice lunch, nice huge.

Yeah, right, Spencer? I showed Spencer. the quantities of the Spanish food was pretty good, no? It was a lunch and I think we exited at 5.30 p.m. The Spanish lunch. But yeah, it was good riding. I was out there on the Colenago, let me test their ultra-aerobike. And Yon during the tour was saying, I think it's not that bad.

And I couldn't be convinced. But actually, it was lighter than I thought it would be. So maybe I was wrong about that. I still like my ventum. I still like my ventum, Spencer. The ventum was, Yoan was smoking these downhills. And then you got to say,

what was your 10 minute power the day on this? Whoa. It's kidding. You always gave me a hard time of running too much. It was a 10 minute power was. Good, good, good. Pretty good. Potential, potential trades and trades.

There is no comeback. There is no comeback. There's one thing I said. There's one thing I said to a friend of mine. I said, I mean, probably 10 or 15 years ago, I said, you know, if you ever see me put a number on my back or on my bike, you are entitled to pull me off the bike. I never put a number anymore. It was a funny.

So I was, the mechanic was showing me Pagaccio's bike and it had these tires on it. They're like, you know, you only ride this. to be going really fast. Like no puncture protection. It's just for the like the fastest race is on the best roads. You know on that those tires. Who has those tires? I bought those tires.

That's funny. I had five flats in five days. Don't buy those tires. We won't call them out. They were fast. Yeah. They were. Yeah.

They're, you know, it's not for, it's not for recreational use. It's just for, it's like Formula One tires. It is. You need to change them all the time. Mid ride, you might have to change them. But thanks guys for joining and we'll talk soon. All right. Thanks, guys.

Thanks. Bye. Yeah. Bye.