THEMOVE - Are Injuries to Key Rivals Setting Up a Pogačar & Van der Poel-Dominated Spring? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down the latest racing action from Volta Valenciana to Etoile de Bessèges, discussing Remco Evenepoel's hot start, how Mads Pedersen's injury could drastically shape the Classics season, and why the top stars seem to be sticking to controlled training camps versus early-season racing, before wrapping up with listener questions. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Caldera Lab: A small habit with big results. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use code THEMOVE for 20% off your first order. Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/themove, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at https://gusto.com/themove Quince: Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/THEMOVE for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too.

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To make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot CA. Cargooros.ca. I've just listed two of Pagachar's biggest rivals. One in classics, one in Grand Tours, both suffering crashes, one with very intense injury problems. Watt Van Art already had surgery on his ankle. Where is Matthew Vanderpull? Because if he gets hurt, we might be hurtling towards the thing I predicted in our end-of-year show where I said,

Pagachar is going to sweep the classics and win the tour of France. The last footage I've seen of Matifandipu, was he was going. down the ski slopes in Livino. I don't like to hear that. That's not good. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, our weekly show where we go through all the important cycling news. And now some of the racing results that the racing has started in earnest. I'm Spencer Martin.

I'm here with Johan Bernille. And we are breaking it all down. Johan, I'm going to ask you about Volta Valenciana. It's Walde Bessage, the Mads-Peterson injury, Jonas, not racing UAE, more. and we're taking questions from members. And if you can watch this live if you're a member, and if you are on the members portal, click through to the YouTube app,

and you'll see the live chat. You can throw chats and questions in there, and we'll get to them at the end of the episode. But first, Johan, instead of hearing from our partners, let's hear from our most important, our most important supporter that's there with you, right? Yeah.

We got some, here's my assistant. He's been a few weeks of the most, move plus, but here he is. Mr. Bobby, Bobby Brunil is back. He's changed a bit, so he's not the tiny, tiny puppy anymore. He's a teenager now. Just woke up from a nap. So here he is. Bobby, say hi to everybody. Look, Bobby. Bobby. Hi. Hi, members. Hi, everybody. You're going to go back? You're going to back to take a nap? Okay. Are you taking Bobby? on the trip next week or just you have to stay home?

He comes everywhere. Nice. He comes everywhere. Yeah. I mean, that's what's underrated about the smaller dog. He can travel. Yeah. He's, uh, you know, he's either, it's crazy.

He's either laying next to me when I sit down in the bed, he's either with me or it's Christian with my son. He sleeps with us. And, uh, it's, yeah, it's, I'm, I cannot even go, uh, privately to the bathroom anymore. He's just sitting there and, and, um, he's just sitting there. Just, that's crazy, crazy. But he's a, he's a really good dog. Hey, Bobby.

It's like having little kids. Those fall you into the bathroom. No privacy. After your main occupation, taking knocks. Well, Johan, we, so we had our up-and-comers show on, on Monday. And we talked about, we didn't, he's been named previously. So he's not eligible for a draft. We talked about 20-year-old, AJ August on, on EEOS.

And we said he had not, he had not won. he had kind of stagnated in his second year as a professional. We were looking forward to seeing what he could do this year. And then sure enough, we turn on Volta Valenciana stage three. And AJ August wins it. First pro win. That's a big win for him. It's also just it was smart.

I was really impressive with it wasn't just a feat of strength. There was really tense moment. Remko's attacking. Jbalameda's attacking. There's a descent. Florian Vermeche is on the front. and who's on his wheel. AJ August, Andrew August,

just follows them and they split off the front of the group. Some other people attack up like a writer from UnoX. And then AJ does not take a poll the entire time, like a smart person and then wins the sprint because I believe he was probably thinking I have teammates behind like Ben Turner who wants to win the sprint. Maybe other teammates going for the overall in GC like Magnus Sheffield. So I am just going to sit on and then wins the sprint.

Super impressive. I was really, I mean, this is a race with some good people. Like stage one was won by Binium Girmai, opens his account with NSN. And then Remko Evanapole. And Remco Evanapole, the world champion in the time trial, wins the time trial on stage two. Unfortunately for him, it did not count for time in the G.C.

Because it was windy. And I'll tell you, it was very windy. It was probably the right decision. And Johan, why were they on road bikes in the TT? Is that just a rule for the race? First about AJ August, Spencer. as you know, I think I said, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I said, you know, he started really young,

got, you know, thrown away in, thrown in the big racists straight away. And then we didn't see yet his potential, what we saw when he was an 18-year-old. But you know what? Talent doesn't go away overnight, you know. So we don't know what happened with AJ August if he had injuries, if he was sick,

if it was difficult for him to adapt to the, life of a professional cyclist overseas. I'm going to guess it's a combination of all of that. But, you know, first of all, to win a race nowadays, there is no more luck, right? For him to attack in the downhill towards the finish, that means that you have to be with the first guys on top of the climb. That's the first, because a guy who's hanging on for dear life is not able to attack in the downhill.

He's busy coming back, right? So, no, I'm really happy to see that. You know, it's, it's good to see these young kids and, you know, especially American talent, materialize with results. And it's this first race, first win as a professional. It's a very important one. The first one is always important. And it's, it's not easy nowadays to win races.

You know, there's not, I mean, there's a few guys who win a lot of races. And then for the rest, there's not. that much opportunity. So great win, great win by him. So that was really, really nice to see. What's interesting since we talked about, you know, we talked about AJ. We talked about all these, like he's 20 years old and his 30 years of professional. That's crazy. That's crazy. And Quinn Simmons, we talked about, I, we were talking about this decision that do you skip U-23? I cited Quinn Simmons as a writer that probably was helped by that. Interestingly enough, Quinn Simmons was talking about this in an interview just this week with Garen Thomas and Luke

Roe, he was saying, he was basically saying, he was trying to say it with modesty, but he was like I was maybe one of the best junior writers of all time is what he was saying. He was, and he went pro and he said, I struggled quite a bit. And he said he could not imagine being less good than he was and going from the juniors to the pros. And he did not recommend it for other writers. So, yeah, I think someone like AJ, obviously he's adapted, he's racing well right now. But it just means you're spending the first few years of your career just getting up to speed. And getting beat up all the time.

Beat up. I mean, that's exactly what Quinn said. Like beat up. He decided that, you remember the breakaway with Walt Van Art in his first? Yeah. I saw the interview. I saw the interview. Yeah.

650 watts. And that Wow. just rode away from it. Wout on a false flat just gets out of the saddle and rides away. Yeah. You know, Johan, I was wondering, why was Wout in the breakaway that? He was in the yellow jersey. He could have won that stage.

Why was he up there? He won the stage. No, no, no, no. He got caught and then Pagatja won, right? Did he? Oh, I don't remember. I don't know. It was the year that Wout was, he was flying.

Anyways, back to what you asked me about the time crab bike. So because of the wind, I mean, it was, it's, the weather in Spain is for the moment, it is not great. I was on a bike right yesterday with a friend of mine with just two of us. We were, we had parts where it was sketchy. It was, you know, like, and that's just with a normal road bike with, you know, like 35 or 40 millimeter profile wheels. And we were, we had sections where we were, where the bike was literally like this. In the south of Spain, it's been raining a lot. There's a lot of flooding.

But yesterday, there was a small hurricane, maybe a little hurricane. A small hurricane. So the commissaires and the organization decided that they were going to do the time trial. And it was not going to count for G.C. Because safety. And I'm going to guess that's a common decision. I don't have, but for safety, everybody on a normal. bike instead of a time draw bike.

I'm not sure because I didn't watch the time trial, but was Remko on a disc wheel? That's a good question, man. I should have paid, I don't think he was. I think he was. You think he was? I think he was, yeah. As a time trialist, man, it's difficult mentally. I'm looking at a picture of him on a non-disc, just regular wheels.

but I wonder did they let people race on discs? Well, I mean, that's probably, you know, it was probably decision made. You can normal bikes, no disc wheels. I mean, it's like a sale, you know, when you, when, when in that, in those conditions. So anyways, he won. It was just a victory because of his pride as a world champion, of course. But, man, what a start for a recall, man. he has not lost the race yet.

Four wins. Well, technically he has, because stage is one and three of Valencia. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. I had the same thought before the show. I was like, man, it's undefeated. I'm like, wait a second. Yeah, but yeah, four wins, including the team time trial. And you see, I mean, again, yesterday in the time trial,

Vlassov second. I mean, how long is it the goal that we've seen a top three result of, Alexander Vlasov. You know, it's definitely the Remko effect at Red Bull. You know, there's, you know, and I think it's also, Remko made it, I think, a big objective to say, okay, I'm getting here, I'm showing straight away that they can have faith in me. There's a new sheriff in the house at Red Bull,

and it's called Remko Havenapool, and it has an effect on the whole team. Because if you also, if you see their behavior in the race, the way they take control with super confidence. It, the, the team dynamics have, you know, transformed. It's, it's, it's, it's a different team. Yeah, I mean, Flassable, only eight seconds back too. Yeah. Pretty impressive.

You know who had a sneaky good time trial, Ben Turner on Enios, Enos, in Aos, 21 seconds back, fourth. I thought he was a sprinter. And then he's turning in really good time trials. He was, Ben Turner. if I'm not mistaken, he was, is it possible he was world champion cyclecross juniors? He was. It sounds right, but there's also so many British riders with a similar variation on the name,

Ben Turner. No, no, he was a top, top, top junior soccer cross rider because I remember when they, a few years ago, him and Tom Pitcock were, often with Ineos in the Belgian in the Belgian cycle cross circuit. So he's a very, very, you know, versatile rider, Van Turner. Yeah, I'm looking right now. He was second at the national championships, U23, 2021, beaten by Leo Hater, who I believe is now on Georgia's team, monitor adventure.

But yeah, very versatile rider, pretty impressive from him. I'm curious to see how this G.C. plays out. There's not a big climbing setpiece. And so Remko probably won't win, but I guess don't count anything out. I mean, it's a really tricky state of tomorrow. There's still one stage where they can make difference. I think Remko wins this. Interesting.

He's going to have to get away solo, which he can do. But I think the neutralization of the TT actually makes it a far more interesting final two stages that I'm excited to watch because now Remko has to make time up versus defend the lead. Yeah, sure. And so the next, just shout out, AJ August. We just want to make sure you want to make sure you know we appreciate you. That was an impressive win. Also, Beniam Girmai. I mean, that's a big win for him.

Like, he did not have, he did not win a single race last year. Yeah. And he wins his first race with NSN. And also, same thing as Remko, you know, get to a new team, start signing. I was, I'm going to say, I'm pleasantly surprised. I had some, I mean, I don't know why. I don't know why. I thought, I thought that Binyam would not be that performing.

It's, okay, we have to put it in context, right? It's Vuelta Valencia. The big sprinters are not here, but still, you had to be there because it was only half of the peloton. And before, there was about 60 riders together. And before that, there was 30 or 40 riders. And he was also there. So, yeah, I mean, that's another big signing for a new team.

And straightaway deliver, that's for the, I mean, for him, his status within the team and the trust and the confidence of the teammates and the whole staff around him, that's a great start for the main. have a good light. It is. Yeah, it's not the biggest race, but it's not nothing. It does make me wonder how much outside cycling things were weighing on him specifically around his team last year. And then now he comes in, they got these great looking jerseys. The world is a I love, I mean, I like them. I mean, I initially, it's strange, but I mean, in the in the bunch, actually, they also, they're also very nice. You know, they stick out. You can really, you know, see where,

and as an cycling team is. Yep. Yeah. And then the other race going on this week, well, there's also the Muscat Classic, which if you're waking up early in the U.S. to watch the one day race prior to the Tour of Oman,

there might, you might need to find your local racing anonymous meeting and go there. We're going to gloss over the Muscat Classic. I have not gone to watch it yet. But the other European race, actually the two. That won two by Jake O'Alula, no? Yes, no, no, no, no, no.

Maro Schmidt wins Adam Yates second on UAE. But didn't they get away him and Luke Plop? Didn't they get away together? Yeah, Luke Plap got away and then was four seconds back. So I assume he probably took some massive poll for Schmidt. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The tour of Amon, I will say, it's a pretty good little race. I couldn't tell you what channel it's on to watch in the U.S.,

But if you can find it, it's a good race, kind of an interesting looking country. It looks at you would want to go ride there after watching the race, which I guess is the point of the race. But Ettaire de Bessage in the south of France near Marseille, I believe, or like Avignon, it's been, the weather's not been good. It looks miserable. It's actually some super interesting racing. Stage one, look like there was confusion, confusion at the end. Lucas Kubis from Unibet Rose Rockets, who I believe we were talking about just recently.

It looked like he did not know that the finish was turning, and he was in the wrong position, allowed Tom Crabe, Crabbe on Team Flanders. I believe he's 20 years old, so keep an eye on this guy. Scott, it got to be the smallest team in the race. Wins the first stage. That was pretty cool to watch. That's not the smallest team in the race, Spencer.

Who do you think the smallest team in the races? I guess there's CIC Pro Cycling Academy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess elite foundation cycling team. That could be a small one too. That's actually, you know what? That's actually a team that is run. I just found out that's it's, I didn't know he had a team.

That's actually an ex-temate of mine who's the like managed director of that team. It's called Laurent Dufour from Switzerland. Oh, really? Yeah, he's the, it's his team. Yeah. Wow. There's a lot of good little teams in Europe. Go figure.

This European continent, I think this could be a good year for them in cycling. And then it's weird because Unibet has been having to race like the favorites, and they usually are the underdogs. So they miss out on that stage one. Stage two, got to be one of the weirdest sprints I've seen so far this year. But in a while, like, it was a really hectic sprint. They almost don't catch the breakaway. Matthew Cockleman from Lotto Intermarchet.

Luxembourg. Luxembourg. Yeah. I found out about him yesterday. It must also be a young rider, no? He is 22. Okay. He won a stage last year, I think, in the Tour of Luxembourg, I think.

You know what? That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. That was a stacked field, actually. Tebow de Grasso was in that stage. Yeah, there was really good riders in Tour of Luxembourg, usually. Yeah, but hey, what a start.

I mean, I was happy to see. team Flanders, what they call Flanders Baloas now. Yep. Because my, you know, my good friend and ex-colle, ex-assistant, Dyr Dumot, changed teams from Lotto to team Baloz, team Flanders Baloz. He's a sport director there. And so in his first race with the team, they straight away a win. And I think, I think it's since 2024 that that team won a race, actually.

think that last year they won a single race in the whole season if I'm not interesting interesting yeah so that is really big for them yeah yeah big I mean yeah it's and and you know they race a lot of races but they also do a lot of smaller races in Belgium so for them it's it's it's like it's I mean it's a big race for them it's not the biggest race but because they're also in two flanders and but because of the automatic invite for for local local teams but yeah great start for for dirk and for the team and actually also run by the son of my ex-coach patrick circuit who was my my idol when i grow up he became my coach and his son christoph is running this team already since

more than 20 years so stays in the family whoa and your nephew was on that team right no he was not no he was not what team was that that was bingo bingo yeah is that still that's still around? No, the theme has folded. That's too bad. But this sprint, Mr. Matthew, he really, because they were catching the breakaway and he used the

last breakaway rider as his leadout. It was his teammate. Yeah, from Lotto. Yeah. They had that under control the whole time. That was planned. This new innovative leadout plan where you send riders up the road at the beginning

of the race. You catch them in the last 200 meters. It was perfect. Grosenevegan's got to be frustrated about that. And then stage three, another super messy sprint. A German rider on Alpison Premier Tech beats Lucas Kubis. I don't think I'd ever heard of this writer before. Henri Uglig? There's there. You know what? The Rotov brothers, man, they are freaking, they are genius. Like, where are they getting these people? Yeah. They find guys that you say, hey, you know, who's that? And then you see that they're actually really strong riders. I mean, do you know how many riders are not going to win a race this year? A lot. A lot of them.

The majority. Yeah, a vast majority. Majority of the Peloton will not win a race. Yeah. And this guy's a win in February. It's pretty impressive. Yeah. Talk about pulling rabbits out of your hat.

That is super impressive. The big news, we're going to go to our first break right after this, but the big news from this block has been, so Mads Pedersen started. He usually goes to Etwal de Bessage and does well. But he raised Valenciennes. crashed on stage one, broke his, I believe, his left wrist and right collarbone. So that's awful to the use of either hand. That's not good.

And that's not going to be good for his classics preparation, I assume. No, no. Obviously, I mean, we need to check the, you know, the severity of the fractures. But anyway, broken bones, beginning of February, it's, he will probably be able to get to the start of the classics. Maybe not Milan San Remo, but probably Flanders and Roubaix, if we will see. But obviously, it's, you know, the whole preparation is derailed now, you know. It's not good unless, you know, unless it's the, you know, the same like Walt Vonart who broke his ankle. And a week later, he was already back on the bike after surgery, which is pretty impressive.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't think an ankle injury would be good for cycling, but it seemed to have been perfect, like, clean enough that the recovery has actually been seamless. Wrist is tough, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And colorbone, I mean, and on both different sides, it's, that's not good. Yeah, no, no, it's definitely not good. Yeah, that's a bummer. That's a big bummer because Mats was obviously, you know, the only guy who was getting

close to Pogacchar, Wanderpul, Van Arndt. He was always around there. You know, I mean, we all remember his, his, his, unbelievable victory in which fashion he did in Gant Bavillam. That was incredible. And then he was up there in Flanders and he, you know, he would have been up there with, I think, with Mathieu and Polachar if he hadn't have punctured in Rouba. He was one of the guy.

He was up there with the four or five guys and he punctured at a really bad moment. So, yeah, I hope he can recover, but it's obviously not the best preparation. I think he cannot be at 100% in those classics, which, you know, could be having then its benefits for later in the season for the tour. Yeah, yeah, that's, that is a good point. You know, as an ex-cyclist and as the next director and next manager, I'm always thinking that way.

Okay, whatever happens now, that's just energy that stayed in the tank for July. It does often work out like that though. I mean, he was really good last year in the classics. I went back and was rewatching this and had forgotten how good he was. But let's take a quick break. And then I have questions for you about how little check, if they could potentially transition their schedules to recover from this for the classics.

And then Jonas Vinegard, why is he missing you a tour? But we'll be right back. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Caldera Lab makes high performance skin care design specifically for men's skin. This is important since men's skin is 25% thicker, oily, and ages differently from women's, which means mid-need clean formulas engineered for their biology.

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canada too that's q you i nc e dot com slash the move quince dot com slash the move for free shipping and 365 day returns quince dot com slash the move okay yohan we're back so that interview you referenced listening to quinn simmons he said something where he said he was not going to the spring classics in belgium because he wanted to you want to to ride for himself and he didn't want to work for Matt Spatterson. Didn't think that was a good use of his time. Did he literally say he didn't want to work for Matt Spatterson or is that an interpretation of the actual quote?

The actual quote would be, that's not the actual quote. The actual quote was, let's make sure. But he said that the team, he said the team, Mads wanted riders around him who were just working for him and I didn't want to ride the front going into the last pass of the quermont when I could be preparing for. am still gold was something along the lines of his quote okay okay the only thing i can't quite and and garant thomas and luke row pushed back on this like well having both of you there is probably good because you know how do you beat vanderpul and baghachar that's not an easy task to begin with

and then having two leaders is probably helpful but the risk of doing of having the one leader is now the one leader might have a subpar preparation do they then think about transitioning quinn back into that program. I mean, I don't know. I can't speak for them, but it's definitely, they're going to sit around the table, you know,

and with Quinn involved in these discussions and see if he would like to step in. I think, first of all, they need to assess the severity of the injury of Matt Spederson and see what the recovery is. I'm just checking their roster here. I mean, listen, they have a strong roster, man. I mean, obviously, listen,

Matt's Peterson is not replaceable, right? There's nobody else on the team who has of that caliber for those spring classics. That's for sure. There's not many people on the level of Quinn Simmons. I mean, he is like unbelievably strong. Yeah, yeah, he is. But you know, this is now an opportunity for other writers to, you know, like for example, I'm just saying, for example, Matias Vachik.

Okay, it's not that level, but it's, you know, I mean, this is probably not going to win Flanders, but they'll have to do with what they have. Tibo Minis, I assume. Tibo NICE. Tis is not on his schedule, oddly. No, usually, normally not. I think last year Tibo was trying to, trying to go for Flesh for Lone, no? Yeah.

Yeah. And that might be on, no, yeah, he's doing Amstel Flash liege, which kind of makes sense. Yeah. You know, but the funny thing is Flanders is changing. And maybe it's just a Bagachar thing. But it's becoming more of a climbers race than, like you even wonder someone like Mateo Schalmo is a like, could he win Flanders? Or maybe that's just an oddity of Bagachar being so good that.

No, no. No, I think, I think, let's not. for Pocahachar is just unique. There's, you know, the riders of the I mean, the Schellmosis and, you know, the lighter guys, no, they can't win Flanders. No. You are right about Vachek, though.

This is his time to step up. I mean, this is perfect. He's the perfect writer that you would have. There's another ride, for example, Tom Squeen's. You know, he's been up there. Yeah. Classics, you know, it's, so it's, listen, they can't replace Smots.

So they can't say, okay, you know what? We're doing the whole race around this leader and we want to be on the podium, which would be the objective of Little Track, right? They can't do that with these riders. But if these riders have their own opportunities now and they don't have to spend all the energy for the leader, they can get at best a top five. And, you know, we'd say, okay, top five is not good enough for Little Track, but it's what it is.

You know, I mean, you can't, if the leader is, if the top leader is gone, then it's the secondary, the shadow leaders, I would say, who have to step up. Quinn Simmons, I mean, if I would say it would be him, but maybe, I would maybe consider it. Although I do think, though, that Quinn Simmons and especially, man, listen, I saw those numbers again from Tour of Lombardy last year, almost six hours, I mean, five hours, 30 or 40 at 350 watts.

It's just, that's madness, madness. So, you know, I think probably Quinn himself will see himself with better chances at Amstel and Liesch to do a good performance then. Yeah. I mean, his, I think his logic was that he expressed in the show was, I can win Amstel, but I maybe can't win Flanders. Yeah. I agree. He could win him still. I mean, actually, it's the perfect race for him.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, God, he could win. He's not, he doesn't have a liege on his. It's not on there. I have to want, I do wonder if he's doing it. He also has a funny, he mentioned that, that, I don't know, I don't know why USA Cycling does this. They move nationals around every year,

but it's during tour of Switzerland this year. So he changed his schedule to do the dophinae, which is not the dophinae anymore, fly back to the U.S., race the national championships, and then fly back to Europe for the tour. So he has already his spot for the tour. I mean, in theory. His theory, yeah. But that's a big change for Quinn Simmons because remember last year he only got that in the tour of Switzerland. Yeah, yeah, he was back racing national championships won and then went to tour Switzerland. Yeah, yeah.

So good enough they selected him for the tour. Yeah. Yeah, he was amazing in the tour. I would say if you're off the front of Lombardia for the entire race and finish just off the podium. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, that performance is the confirmation of the type of writer he is. You know, he's a big. And yeah, yeah.

I saw those numbers a few days ago. I said, and I was discussing with my son, you know, he's 16. I mean, he's turning 17 in April. And, you know, his best powers or like for 15, 20 minutes is what Twin Simmons is doing for five hours. That's crazy. Wow. Yeah. That's that's, I mean, I can put it in perspective.

So it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a big. It's freak stuff, what he's doing. The forgotten result, too, is he got third at Montreal. Oh, pretty little resort right there. Yeah. Behind the UAE guys. So, yeah, take them to the tour probably would be a safe bet. Yeah, I mean, maybe that's right.

Maybe you've convinced me that if he can win Amstall Gold, maybe it's worth putting everything toward Amstall Gold. I think so. I think so. Yeah. And we don't know, we don't know how Matt's going to do. I do, I would bring up, you remember Mads Pedersen worked over Vanderpull at the 204 Gint Wevelgum with the help of Jonathan Milan?

And to me, that like perfectly encapsulated, like how you defeat these guys. And that's what I just can't quite understand how, like, I would just take every writer that is the best for the course that we're facing them on. Because we're dealing with a five alarm fire here. This is not a normal situation. Like normal tactics will not work against these guys. You've got to start thinking weird if you want to beat them. In my opinion, like you can't just roll up and say, yeah, we'll try to beat. We'll try to beat Matthew Vanderpull and Pagacharba.

going to the base of the Quaremont and riding faster than them. Like, I don't know if that's going to happen. Yeah, no, they have to do something else. They have to do something else. Yeah. Drop someone in on a blimp mid-race to anything. Anything is needed at this point. And then this kind of takes me to my next point.

Jonas Vindigard crashed training recently. And then on a descent hit his face, I believe, which no broken bones, but that can really throw you off. Not racing the UA2 organs from Coevina poll. A little disappointing because I was. was quite excited to see that showdown. They didn't mention, I mean, Vizma plays is so close to the vest for, like, with the injuries, I would say too close to the vest sometimes to the fact where it's confusing.

But do you, like, what do we read into this, Johan? Is this? I don't think, I don't think it's such a big deal. I mean, we never know when videos are taken, right? But I, I'm under the impression I've seen already other videos from him training again. he has a place in Malaba, Malaga, I think, in that area. And I've seen other videos from after the reported crash,

which I don't know when those videos were taken, but I see, I mean, it was raining and he was, you know, in full rain gear and it's raining now. So I'm going to assume that he's already back on the bike. Yeah. I don't think it's such a big deal. So let's just say he's fine. Put him in the fine bucket.

We're still. Nowadays, Spencer, I mean, especially and also with the crashes that Jonas has had, you know, remember his crash in tour of the boss country. Remember his crash in Parianese. Didn't he broke his wrist there also? He did. He did break his wrist. Yeah.

Having no broken bones after crash, it's a success. Unless you have a severe. concussion, but other than that, it's fine, you know. Yeah, we have, we're trending in the right direction. But we are, I've just listed two of Pagachra's biggest rivals. One in classics, one in grand tours, both suffering crashes, one with very intense injury problems. Watt Van Art already had surgery on his ankle.

Where is Matthew Vanderpull? Because if he gets hurt, we might be hurtling towards the thing I could. predicted in our end of year show where I said Bagacho was going to sweep the classics and win the tour of France. The last footage I've seen of Matifandrupula was he was going down the ski slopes in Livino. I don't

like to hear that. That's not good. The day after his world title, he was on the skis in Livino. I mean, you know, he's obviously, he's not going to take risks, but hey, skiing is a dangerous sport, man. Skiing is a very dangerous sport. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I,

I have the consequences of a big ski crash, you know, since 10 years ago for the rest of my life. And it's not, it's not good, not good at all. So obviously, these guys are, you know, they're young. They're, you know, they crash and they jump up. They're like rubber, you know. But yeah, I mean, it's a risky activity. I mean, I think it's part of the special relationship that Vanderpul has with his team and with the team managers and with Christoph Rotov. You know, they're very, they're very close.

And so they allow him to do certain things for him to stay focused when he needs to stay focused and decompressed when it's time to do that. So I think it's part of the whole picture of, you know, having him feel good riding at all. us in premier tech and um yeah let's uh let's let's let's let's hope that he doesn't go off-piece and uh the results have been pretty good you would argue like whatever they're doing it probably is a good idea to keep doing it yeah yeah i mean i think pagachar is skiing too easel of 2000 up there oh maybe a little training on the bike maybe some skiing but i did see oh for sure they're on the bike yeah listen if they're not outside their own swift that's for sure that's for sure that's for sure. You know, it's it's decompression and at the same time it's altitude training also,

right? So. Yeah. And if you're up there altitude training, it would kind of make sense that you might day off. Maybe you go out there and ski. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually, that's exactly what I want to talk about. But let's take another quick break and then I'm going to ask you about this and get to our questions at the end of the show. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. So quick business confession, there was a stretch where running payroll and handling paperwork basically ate up my entire afternoons. I'd sit down to do one. simple admin task and suddenly it was two hours later. I was buried in forms and I was thinking there has to be an easier way to do this. Everything changed when I got Gusto. Gusto is an online payroll and

benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay higher on board and support your team from anywhere. And with April getting closer, I can feel it. I feel that anxiety bubbling up in my stomach that I used to feel when I was running my small business, beyond the Pellas on Newsletter, without Gusto. I would wake up thinking, have I withheld my taxes? What do I? Oh, have I broken the law? Well, now payroll runs automatic. Taxes are handled. And there are no out of the blue surprise payments or fees, just unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. And all the stuff that used to be annoying, offer letters, onboarding, direct deposits. It's just baked right in there. And the other big thing, peace of mind. When you're running a small business, the last thing you want to wonder is if you messed up a form or missed something important, gusto just makes it feel handled. So if you're tired of ad, and we're creeping into your nights and weekends. Gusto is honestly one of the easiest upgrades you can make. I cannot recommend it enough.

I'm someone who used to stress about this stuff all the time. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash the move and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free payroll at gusto.com slash the move. One more time, Gusto, g-U-S-T-O-com slash the move. Okay, Johan, just before, this is kind of set up the first question we have. Bobby is back. Bobby is back. Huge. I, so we were talking about altitude camps, people skiing. It does seem like it's a trend now. You go up to a ski resort this time of year. And even if it's snowing, you just train inside. Like UnoX is that it seems like they are at their second altitude camp of the year. They were. Where are they? Are they? In Sierra Nevada now, they were in the Canary Islands. But as you know,

The weather's been awful. I guess it's just dumping the snow there. So they're on Zwift every day for like six hours a day. Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, okay, Spencer, I think we should differentiate there. I haven't followed that, but I can tell you the whole of UNOX team is not six hours on Zwift. I think it's Abrahamson, Yunus Abrahamson, who is a freak. I know my son follows him and, you know, he says,

Abrahamson did today on Zwift. I mean, let's not forget, Abrahamson had this crash last year in Switzerland or something. No, no, no, no. Was it, it was. It was a great question. It was a race in two of Belgium, two of Belgium.

Yeah, two of Belgium. Broke his collarbone, had surgery. The day after surgery was on Zwift in the hospital. He made it to the start of the tour, which is probably two weeks later. And maybe the nature wins a stage. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's not the norm for UnoX, but anyways, if you're outside of Nevada right now and you want to do altitude training, you're going to have to be on Zwift because the weather is horrible in the south of Spain right now. I mean, people have some of me, I have my sources on the ground who have sent me videos and you can see there's like eight of them in the corner, like on these trains.

trainers every day. Yeah. Okay. It's right. It's ours. Yeah. I mean, you does make me wonder, and this probably won't be a trend, but are you better off this time you're just going to an altitude camp and riding indoors versus

riding outside, not at altitude? I mean, yeah, I mean, the, mentally you could imagine it getting kind of hard. No, this is great. I mean, there's almost nobody who can do this mentally. Like, you can do this once for like, you can do this once for like, your. okay, you know, I want to show off and I want to do six hours on Swift, whatever, but they, you can't do this regularly. You go crazy. Abrahamson doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

What a writer, man. What a, what a, what a, what a, I mean, he's so strong as an ox, crazy. Winnie, Winnie mentality. I did UAE at their, uh, when, uh, Jorren Swart and then Javier Salere were talking. Soley. Soler? Solé, Soler. They were saying they're trying to scale back their altitude camps.

And then someone actually asked them, like, what, UnoX is scaling up their altitude camps? And they basically swatted the question away. This does make me wonder is UnoX thinking, hmm, this is a lot of altitude camps in the coldest part of the year. Maybe we shouldn't have done this.

Well, I think they, you know, they haven't, obviously they didn't plan on being the weather so bad. in the south of Spain it's alert spencer i mean uh andalusia is flooded um granada that's the bottom of that's the bottom of sierra nevada right granada is so bad it's really bad so uh if if you're stuck up there then you have to make the best out of it and luckily nowadays the the indoor riding technology is up to point i mean you can perfectly do any training you have to

have to do on whatever Zwift or platform or a RUVie or whatever, my wish, you can do it to perfection, actually. It is like shockingly better. It is unbelievable how well you could train indoors now. I mean, I was, yeah, I was thinking if I was a professional, I probably could stay in Boulder quite a long for like the first two months of the year probably and just do out to do camps from my house. And if it was bad weather, you just do Zwift.

We didn't used to have that technology. It was not as easy to ride inside back in the day. But on this topic, this is the first question. I thought this was kind of interesting. This is from Mark in Sydney, Jaco all the way, is how he signs his email. But he says, his question is more of a theory sparked by recent crashes of UAE riders at the start of the season. And he asked, would you agree with all the focus now on training camps and individual riders riding to their power meters in the art of, and would you agree that the. focus on this means the art of racing has been diminished. If teams like UAE spend so much time

in a controlled environment focused on outputs, are there riders more vulnerable to crashing in the chaotic environments of a live race? Kind of an interesting question. Yeah. I mean, I think there's something to it, man. Obviously, this is in any professional cyclists, they're masters on the bike, right? Their skills are unrivaled. there are some riders who maybe i would say you know the lack of racing sensations instinct the feeling you have in the bunch um maybe i think maybe going down they don't race that much um and i'm not going to say that that's the reason why there's more crashes but it's definitely i mean if you're used to be in a bunch a lot

there's a lot of reflexes that you know that's it's automatic you know how i mean i was talking i don't know who was talking to the other day um about this but uh you know i think it's a combination of a lot of a lot of factors that may be one of them i still think you know the bikes are super fast uh everything's optimized uh the disc brakes uh have their pros and their cons i think breaking wise, it's amazing. It breaks better than any other system we had in the past. At the same time, I think that this breaks also are a reason for the certain crashes where they know it breaks so well that everybody's used to just break at the last moment.

Yeah, I do think that's a big component. You don't have to anticipate. You know, with rim breaks, obviously it didn't break. Sometimes it didn't break at all. Rim breaks because you were there. But at least you had this automatic instinct installed that you always had to be aware and anticipate and always looking and you were breaking already before you actually came to the spot when you saw something in the bunch. I think those automatic feelings are gone in nowadays cycling. Anyways, I'm not saying that this breaks are obviously, if you look at the overall,

picture. I think it's a lot better. It's safer in the downhills. You know, you know, when you have to stop, you stop. I still have nightmares sometimes. And especially when at the beginning, when the carbon wheels came into the, into the peloton and we didn't have the proper break paths. I mean, you go down a climb, a mountain and it's raining. And you have, you had no brakes, man. It's just general slowing. You're kind of slowing down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. lining up to do a wet crit. Everyone's got carbon wheels with wind brakes. Oh, my Lord.

There's just no stopping. For the followers who know, I mean, you can look it up on YouTube. My famous crash in 1996 in the Tour de France when I went off the cliff on the descent of the Cormelé de Rosalant. That's a typical crash of new technology carbon wheels. back in the day. So it was the beginning of the lightweight. What year was that? 96.

That was early carbon weights. And not have the proper brake pads. No. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And it was.

And I have to say, it was a personal decision. Yeah. It was not a team. Like I didn't, the team didn't ride on lightweight. I asked permission to the team if I could use the lightweight wheels. And then, you know, it was my decision, my responsibility. but that was the cause. I mean, the main cause of the crash is that I didn't have enough break power.

So I, yeah, I went over, I went over the cliff. What were the injuries? Obviously, you're here today. So you were, I guess, in a big picture. We should post the link of the, if we can post it in the comments or something, I'll find a link. The injuries were, it was a miracle. Nothing. I mean, I had a few thorn fibers in my cough, which three days after forced me to abandon. But it was crazy. I went, I felt more than 10 meters down. Over like, you know, you have those in the, you have those concrete blocks. Like, you know, you went over it. I remember going, you know, like over my head. And, you know, no helmet no helmet spencer and i came out of there i had it was a bad day it's the stage is the

famous stage is the first time that we saw in the rind crack uh it was uh the finish was on you know i didn't know those were the same day le duzzalp or lezart which one what it was but anyway it was that same day so bad weather and i had a i rode for rab i had a little cycling cap on and so went over, fell, and I came back out, and I still had the cycling cap on my head, on my head. That's how, you know, lucky I was. Dude, you could have. Here and be able to tell this story. You could have cracked that noggin easily.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is very lucky. What year was that? 96. 96, yeah. You know what's crazy about Enderane and the reason I think he is a baller? 96. First year he cracks just goes home.

He's like, I'm out. No, no, he finished a tour. Well, he finished a tour. Then he was forced to start the Vuelta. Well, he won the Olympic Games in between the tour of the Vuelta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So he was forced to start the Vuelta because of Vanesto, his sponsor, and he abandoned. And said, okay, that's it. I'm out here. And we never saw him again. Yes. That's awesome. That is like quite the way to go out. But the second question, someone in the chat.

asked a question that I was just about to ask. You might have noticed, like, Rimco wins four races, off to a great start. Mads Pedersen crashes. These are kind of the two big stars that we've had appear so far. Obviously, Matt Patterson crashing maybe supports the theory that people should be at training camps. But everyone else is at training camps.

The question is, why is Pagachar's first race Strata Bianchi? Is that a little risky? You just jump into that? Maybe they think it's not a challenging race? It has worked the last few years. He won last year and the year before, being at his first race. Ah, this and these guys, I don't think we can compare. You know, these big engines, you know, Polachar, Ronderpool, Vonnegut.

Matt Peterson, named them Remko. They show up and they're just on top of their game. They don't need any races to get race fit or whatever. So I just think it's If you look for example If you take Vanderpul you take pogachar And let's take the say Remko and even and even Jonas Wout maybe to a lesser extent

I think he's still a little bit more Old fashioned Old fashioned thinking in terms of race getting races in But these guys do not race when they think they can't win. They don't race, they only race the races that they think they can win.

Yeah, that's a good point. You know, I mean, obviously, if Bogacha would raise two of Ferensia, he would win it. If he would raise two of UAE, he would win it. But, you know, he has such a specific set of goals and ambitions that he just, you know, he just shows up whenever it's a big goal. you know, usually he wins. Well, so Pagachar did race Huey Tour last year before Strata.

Oh, he did. Okay. So it is, you're thinking of 2024 this year or year. He comes in and just drops a bomb, 81K solo. See you later. First race of the year. I guess he's not too worried about it. But I was thinking this month, I was like, man, there's not many.

My wife is like, who's racing this race? And I'm like, you don't understand. These guys are pretty good. You don't know them, but it's good racing. And yeah, it made me think, there's not a lot of big stars out there racing right now. Someone asked a question, and I'm going to tell them we're going,

we can address it, but we're going to wait until we stop recording. So if you want to hang around, we can talk about that. That's what you get for your membership. The next question is, what breed is Bobby? Oh, he's a tackle.

So it's a dachshund. and it is a long-haired caninechen dachshund. There's different sizes. And so caninchen, caninchen is German for a small rabbit. And so apparently this small breed, they, you know, they are basically around to chase rabbits, to hunt rabbits. They go in rabbit holes. or that's what they were bred for initially. So it's a long-haired caninechen dockswint or tackle or whatever you call it.

Bobby and Aryard, we got a big rabbit problem. The next question is, it's funny, I just had to do this in a race. Do riders prefer taking a nature break while riding the bike or pulling over? They prefer to stop. That's what I would say. Yeah. I was at the tour of Tucson and the group was too. I couldn't.

If I pulled over, I was never going to see it again. I had to pee off the bike. Oh, wow. It is not a comfortable experience, I would say. I mean, it depends. You know, listen, if you have, usually you try to find a, you know, a false flat. Not too much descent. Like a false flat, one, two percent downhill.

You go to the side of the road. Very important. Check the wind. You have to go bad enough. I don't know how much you care. Yeah. And yeah, but whenever they can, they, they stop for a nature break. If you do it on the bike, it's because it's too fast.

There's no time. You can't wait. You can't wait to, or maybe, you know, you think it's never going to slow down. I mean, you saw Tom Pickock. Remember it was between the Poggio and the Trapress? Chrapeza and Pogio two years ago when he peed off the bike. Yeah. Front group at San Remo.

If you got to go, you got to go. Well, there's a little thing. There's very little things that Tom Pitca cannot do on a bike. And, yeah, being on the bike is definitely not one of them. Yeah. Actually, if you want to get really good at peen off the bike, I had a friend who would practice it on group rides. Really?

Kind of makes sense. Like, if you want to be good at it in a race, you got to practice and train. I mean, but usually like when you see these breakways have big gaps, it's because the fight for the breakaway is intense. And then someone makes the decision that everyone's going to pull over and take a pee. Yeah. And then the breakaway gets the gap.

So yeah, preferably you would do it then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember Victor Campanardt. I haven't seen it happen for a few years, but there was years where he was peeing like all the time. He just being the break. He just be peeing. Like he was peeing five, six times a race. And I'm like, there's got probably a.

note from his nutritionist, stay hydrated. I guarantee, yeah, it was some sort of push of like ultra-hydration. And like, I got to drink all these carbs in the end of pee. The last one, this is a good question. Isaac Deltoro is training and home in his hometown. I assume this person means in Mexico. How is this reviewed and checked by UAE? Is it just through training peaks basically?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the, I mean, it's not UAE. It's the personal contact you have with your trainer. So I'm going to guess in UAE, there's probably five, six trainers or more. You know, everybody has four or five riders. And so that's the communication, you know.

And then normally everybody also has one designated DS. We stayed in touch with a group of four, five or six riders, which he checks in with. And so, yeah, that's the way. I don't think it's not that they have to check it. It's, you know, these guys know what they're doing, man. They do the job, you know. They do what they have to do. And is a, I mean, your, your A, you're not a way that long.

It's not that long of an off season. And B, I mean, in between major races, they're, they're probably training by themselves anyway. Yeah. So it's, it's like a normal sport. I guess, I mean, I don't know where Isaac Deltoro lives, but he's probably at altitude in Mexico. he's from insinada which is on the coast oh so it's kind of it's basically san diego south and if you're in san diego nice little place to ride so i'd assume the weather's very good a lot of mountains coming out of the ocean so i i see the appeal of training there um and i mean but

he'll he'll like then have to go to some altitude camp soon but yeah if you like the columbian guys a lot of them live at altitude so instead of going to an outstead camp and be it away from home, it just kind of makes sense to stay at home and be at altitude. And yeah, I mean, if anyone that has a coach,

you just do your training, it goes to the training peaks, and then the coach looks at it. And it's, I don't like, I don't like, I always hated that. It's like,

I don't want to hear about what you think about my training. All right. Like, I just want to do this in private. But that's how it works for the pros. Anything else, Johan, before we take off? I'm just checking here.

Isaac Lutro, but I can't find him on Strava. there's too many fake ones. I know. It's like an army of fake Deltore. I just want to see where he was. No, I think we've covered most of it, Spencer. So yeah, what's our next big appointment?

Is that the UAE tour? Yeah, we'll do a show on Friday, next Friday. And then UAE tour is, I am terrible at knowing when the UAE tour is. It starts on February 16th. and 10 days from now. Okay. And so it's two weeks until we have our NWA tour.

Yeah, yeah. Run down. I assume, I mean, this is big. This is Remcoevinable's chance to win a World Tour stage race. And it's not. And he win in the home of his nemesis. Bogotchar.

Yeah. And I mean, it's not, it's not, at this moment, he's not, you know, he's just not.

I also think they're good friends, right? I mean, yeah, they were good friends, I think, when they were banging on Jonas together. That was pretty funny. Did you hear that quote? He's like, don't be, you shouldn't be afraid of him. That's what Bagachar said to Evanapult. He's like, don't listen to him. Well, so I guess he has won this race before.

Yeah, he's won UAE tour, 2023. And there's a time trial, no? Yeah. There's usually time trial and then do. uphill finish it. So it's a very good time trial for him. Yeah. And you know, these kind of efforts man for Remko, that's like, uh, it's not the high mountains. Yeah, he's going to be. Oh, it's like a perfect rimco. It's not going to be difficult to beat. Yeah. Do you know who he's racing against though? Uh, besides Adam Yates.

Deltoro. Isek del Toro. Oh, okay. That's, I'm actually not kind of excited for this race. You need to take some time, which he will in the time trial. Yeah. Yeah. He will. Because, man, but Deltoro, he's a pretty good time trialist. He's no panic-cooking in the time trial.

He's not going to lose 20 seconds of it on Ramco, at least, if not more. At least, probably, right? How long is the time trial? The time trial is 12K long. Okay. That's going to be more than 20 seconds. Last year, Josh Tarling. wins. Let's just assume Remko's as fast as Josh Charlie.

Second place was 13 seconds back and Pagacharo is almost 20 seconds back. So yeah, it's probably 20 to 30 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's going to be interesting. I'm excited. Listen, I mean, there's two uphill finishes. So with, you know, with two wins and bonification, it's doable. But I'm still going to put Remko as the favorite number one. How does that work with UOE and Pagachar and the UAE tour? Is it like an every other year situation?

I mean, you know, initially I would say, you know, a few years ago, like, I think UAE or, you know, the, the Sheikh could still demand the presence of Pogacar at their race, right? I think those times have gone. They can't demand anything anymore because, you know, he's the best rider in the world. He wins the Tour de France. Okay. It's fine if you don't come to UAE. Yeah, if you keep winning Tour de France, as you probably do.

don't have to go to the UAE tour if you don't want to. In some ways, though, the training's pretty good. I mean, it is hard racing in crosswinds, usually. Yeah. Maybe not the worst thing to go do. Short stages, though. So maybe that's not what Bogacha needs for the classics. Yeah, I know.

I actually would be curious to talk to his team sometime about how they make that calculation. Like, what do you think he's doing instead of being at the UA tour? Is he just at home in Monaco? Yeah, he's doing long rides. he's doing monster rides. Yeah, monster rides in those coastal mountains or sleeping up at altitude and going Yeah, it's great training there. Yeah.

The training he can do there is definitely a lot better for the classics than being at UAE tour for sure. Interesting. And you're getting time at home when you're going to be gone later in the year. So it makes sense. Well, thanks, Johan. Anything else before we take off? Nope, that's it.

Thanks, guys. All right. We'll talk to everybody on Friday. Thanks for joining. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libson Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements, or run a pre-produced ad like this one, across thousands of shows, to reach your target audience with Libson ads. Email Bob at Libson.com to learn more. That's B-O-B-L-I-B-S-Y-S-E-E-E-E-S-Y.

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