THEMOVE - Are Visma's Tactics Pressuring, or Helping, Pogačar? | Tour de France 2025 Stage 18 | THEMOVE

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

Lance, George, Sir Bradley Wiggins, and Spencer Martin (aka “The Professor”) break down Ben O'Connor's incredible ride to win the Queen Stage of the 2025 Tour de France atop the Col de la Loze, finishing ahead of the lead GC group, which was led in by Tadej Pogačar, with the race leader continuing to extend his advantage over Jonas Vingegaard after yet another day in which Visma-Lease a Bike’s tactics failed to put meaningful pressure on his comfortable lead. During the show, Steve Cummings—director of O'Connor's Jayco–AlUla team—calls in to discuss the team’s strategy going into the stage. The crew also examines the remaining possibilities in the Green Jersey battle, with Jonathan Milan scooping up more intermediate sprint points, before previewing tomorrow’s short but brutal day in the Alps and answering a few listener questions. Zwift: Zwift just made it easier than ever to get on the virtual roads. All Zwift-ready trainers come with the new Zwift Cog and Click installed, making them ready to ride from the box - no extras needed. Zwift-ready trainers start at just $299, meaning anyone can jump into world-class indoor training without breaking the bank. No excuses. Just ride! https://zwift.com Ekoi: The entire EKOÏ website is currently on sale until the end of July, with discounts of up to 60%. It’s hard to find better deals! Special offer With the code THEMOVE15, you get $15 off any purchase of $150 made on the EKOI website until the end of July. https://ekoi.com Honey Stinger: Head on over to https://honeystinger.com/themove to check out all of their products, including my favorite, the waffle. Our listeners can get 25% off your first order at https://honeystinger.com/themove. That’s THEMOVE for 25% off your first order. Ketone-IQ: Take your shot: Get 30% off your subscription, plus a free gift with your second shipment at https://Ketone.com/themove LMNT: Get your free 8-count Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/themove Be sure to try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Ventum: Enter Ventum Trivia of the Day for a chance to win the Grand Prize: $5,000 of store credit towards any Ventum bike. Don’t want to leave it to chance, 10% off sitewide using the code THEMOVE10 or 20% off any NS1 road bike build with code NS120  https://ventumracing.com/themove/

We can't go to break without talking about these. This is just, we've spent so much time these three weeks talking about their tactics, questioning their tactics as we watch the race today. I think we all sit here collectively going, what are we doing? It's maybe a better, it's a great question for Johan later on in your show with him. So Bradley, this is a real head-scratcher for me. One of the things I can't work out is why they're so vocal about what they're going to do, and when they're going to do it. They've targeted, they've pinned this stage, hasn't they? Yeah, they said semi-publicly that the whole tour, their whole strategy was about cracking pagaccio today. Right. Why would you say that though? Why would you say that?

cracking Pogacar today. Right. Why would you say that though? Why would you say that? Good morning everybody. Welcome back to the MOVE Podcast brought to you each and every day by Ketone IQ. Talking about stage 18. Alain, what do we do? Stage 18 from Vif to Courchevel, Col de la Lose. From Vif to Courchevel, Col de la Lose. Love it. Joined by Sir Bradley Wiggins, Mr. Georgine Cappie, and the professor, Mr. Martin, who has agreed to stay around another week. Thank you so much, Professor. No longer 15 teams in the race that haven't won a stage.

Ben O'Connor, exceptional performance today. Jake O'Oluwala was one of those 15 teams. We're now down to 14, but what a ride. Fantastic. You know what, Ben? You gotta give it to him. Yeah, absolutely. Perseverance throughout this tour. He was lying on the ground on stage one with that crash towards the final. He had some bad days after that. But this last week, I mean, he's been to the break most days and had a crack every day. And today you got his reward and great for the team.

But when he wins, he wins big. He does win big. Yeah. Yeah. And he must love the Alps because he's won in teams before. And today, we're going to try to get Steve Cummings to join us and talk about their strategy today. But massive, massive win.

Now 14 teams without a win. So it's a big deal for Jacob Alula today to come out for the win three days to go. Two days to go before the finish of the Tour de France. Second straight grand tour where they've won the queen stage at the Giro. They had Chris Hamilton, I believe. Oh, that was a big one too. Yeah. Yeah. So both got long femurs, huge femurs on these guys. Yeah. It's gotta help.

What? Two guys. It will be longer. It's an Australian thing. Adaptation to stay above the heat on the ground. Only, yeah, George, just give Steve, I know he was busy, because if you watch the stage, the conditions turned brutal at the end. Cold temps in the mid-40s, raining, occasional hail. So he's at the finish line. Yeah, he's waiting for all the guys. Waiting on some of the guys to come up, which we'll get to another question we have because

everywhere we looked, we were trying to find the time cut. And for those who don't know, every day there is a time cut. We talked about it with the time trial specifically, but day like today, I mean, certain riders, certainly the sprinters, the grupetto, they have to be mindful of the time cut. They made it within like six minutes. They had plenty of time. And that's a whole other discussion about how, I mean, it's kind of a secret science there of how they know how to manage that time cut so they don't miss it. They were also aided a lot today by the way the front group raced. So they went balls deep on the

Madeleine. But then on that descent and in the valley before the last climb, the groupetto would have been going faster, wouldn't they? They would have made time on them because they're working together full gas to stay within the time limit to not have to go full gas up the last climb. It's harder sometimes than that groupetto, isn't it? It is, for sure. That's right. We'll get into all the action. Today's show brought to you by Zwift. So Zwift recently rolled out its new Cog and Click product that's sitting right here.

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Super simple and no need to remove your cassette. And did you know, check this out, that now outdoor rides count towards your Zwift fitness score and trends. All you need to do your cassette. And did you know, check this out, that now outdoor rides count towards your Zwift fitness score and trends. All you need to do is link your bike computer to the Zwift companion app. That's huge. I'm getting credit for riding outside. Hey, G, George's getting a lot of credit.

That's right. My friends at Zwift. My level's climbing every day. My Zwift level's climbing every day. And your son got here last night, didn't he? He did, yeah. Now we're really done riding. He should ride with us today. We're gonna go for a ride after the show.

No. Years ago, Enzo would come out and ride with us and... Yeah, but not anymore. I can't keep but staring at the fin you got going on. It's gotten more and more pronounced over the last couple of weeks. It's quite impressive. I got approval from Sir Bradley. I had a hat on. And I went to the bathroom.

And I took and I looked in the mirror. I took the hat off. And you know what? I don't care. It's been a long tour. It has. In a way it's gone, it seems like it's gone fast, but it's still three weeks, right?

It just grinds on you. You know? You want me to get going with the- Yeah, because I want to call Steve. He's waiting for us. Oh, sorry, that's right. You know, we have a special guest and he's sitting around going and waiting for me

to just, whatever. Also today right. You know, we have a special guest and he's sitting around going and waiting for me to just whatever. Also today brought to you by Ekoi. We're pleased to welcome our new helmet sponsor, the brand Ekoi. Ekoi is a leading brand in Europe specializing in cycling equipment from head to toe. It is one of the few brands that truly develops its products in close collaboration with pro athletes across all disciplines. Road cycling, triathlon, gravel, and mountain biking. If you're watching the tour, you've seen them in the race.

They've got four teams in the race, Israel Premier Tech, Lotto Destiny, Arkea B&B Hotels, Kevin Beckland. He hung in there today. They showed him a lot on the race. I like this kid. And Kofides. Ekoi also equips numerous riders with shoes. Check this out.

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Big day for him. My friends over in Steamboat Springs. Honey Stinger, listen, they didn't invent the Stroopwaffle, but they certainly invented the Energy Waffle. It's no surprise that Honey Stinger is the first and only Energy Waffle to launch new peanut butter flavors. This is like a chapter out of, yes, peanut butter, peanut butter chocolate, and peanut butter strawberry deliver both the fuel and the delicious taste you've come to expect

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the Honey St or waffle. I mean, it's game changer. Game changer. Our listeners get 25 percent off your first order. Again, honey Stinger dot com slash the move. Well, I got that right. You want to call Steve? Yeah, that's a big deal. I mean, it's a big big DJ Steve O'Cummins. We were roommates, teammates in 2006.

Speaker phone. Bradley was a teammate. Yeah, I grew up with him. Steve O. How's it going, man? Good. How are you? Congratulations.

Thank you. We got the win. The car with Mauro. Oh, say hello. Say hello to the guys. How, how? Say hello. Hello.

I'm speaking. All right. Well, how was it out there, boys? They looked miserable. Have you guys done that climb before the top part? Yeah. We, isn't it? I'm sure that had a lot to do with today's strategy, team strategy, but you guys winning the Queen stage of the Tour de France is an amazing, amazing win. Walk us through it. More to do with the pants legs. But I appreciate that.

The main point was like, obviously there was a lot going on in the race, King of the Mountains sprints. The sprint was after 23k and then after that there was kind of a flatter section. So we just asked the sprinter guys, Mauro, Ploppy, we wanted Ploppy in the front with Ben and the rest of it, a big group going. And Ben wasn't in, then we actually tried to close and the big guys did front. And then Ben, he had obviously, he made, he was really efficient, he just kind of went once and he was in front. And then the group just got smaller and smaller, which is not tactics, just legs as you know. In the final he also had the big kahunas to try in the valley and kind of rode off the

battle for GC and yeah. You wrote great. Steve is Lance. I thought he was, I've never ridden that climb up to the obviously 2005 I think it was. We finished up in Courchevel, but this last piece that's somewhat of a new addition, just watching on TV. Honestly, you weren't sure. At one point at three minutes, you know how steep it is. You've got four or five K to go. That is not a foregone conclusion that he stays away. I thought he rode incredible all the way to the finish line. It was amazing to watch.

all the way to the finish line. It was amazing to watch. Yeah, no, I see. I was seeing in the past, he's like a persister. If you like any, oh man, he just measured his effort to perfection. And like you say, if you're never sure because of the gradients, because if you do blow, you just stop.

Put him parked. Yeah, exactly. So, and it is really steep. Like the other side, we're just descending down now into Maryville Nope, not it could be some Alpine cell You know a lot of people on their cell phones up there. You still there guys? Yes, we're here.

Yeah, we're here. Is that my signal? Or is that your? No, keep talking. Keep talking, Steve. You're live. You're live to the nation. This is an Elon Musk thing.

This thing I want my money back. This is an Elon Musk thing. I want my money back. You know, this is what happens. You get blinded for stuff. Well, great. Epic stage. I think we're lucky with the weather because there's a bit of forecast of rain after Glandon and we didn't get it until the final.

So that was good as well. Yeah. So the pressure is off you guys and I'm sure probably have somebody in the breakaway again tomorrow. Probably. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you man. We try tomorrow and then stage 20 is gonna be a big party as well.

Yeah, that's right, that's right. Okay, cool, Steve-O, thank you so much. Thank you. Good luck, good luck guys. We'll be watching, appreciate it. Thank you so much for that. Okay. Thanks guys. Thanks guys. All right. Bye bye. Cheers. Cheers. Bye. Spencer, you were in, of course, Ben O'Connor featured prominently in the Netflix show. And so he's been out there and he's had, we were going down his list of results. He's

had a hell of a career. Really good writer. I also think he kind of got done dirty in that document. I agree. And he could make a documentary about us and make us look bad, I would imagine. But he's won two. In three, two, one. It's probably starting.

You know what I mean. He's won two tour stages. If you remember 2021, Titina, that was another hard Alpine stage. Very similar win as today. Very similar. He was higher in the GC. I think he ended up fourth in that tour.

But that's kind of what you think of when you think of Ben O'Connor, that fourth place of the tour. He was second at the Worlds when Paul Gorn. Second at the Worlds last year, clipped off the front. And then he was fourth at the Giro in 20. This was last year, fourth at the Giro, second at the Vuelta, second at the Worlds. It was last year, fourth to the Giro, second at the Vuelta, second at the World's. Good results right there. The big question I have is why did Decathlon, they just seemed to let him go. And same thing with Peripontra. It's like these are two of

the hardest stage wins of the tour. Both riders used to be on Decathlon. Decathlon's beefing up. They keep talking about we're the new super team. It's like, well, all your riders are winning the hardest stages and you guys aren't winning any stages. I think it was an obvious move for him going to the Australian team. Jerry and the team there, that Jayco will learn, desperate for Australian success, I think, you know, and they've kept to the heritage of their team by having Australian riders and it's paid off for them.

You know, it really has. And if they're going to pay big money for a GC rider, they'll pay for one of their own. Yeah. He's also a valuable GC rider, not just because of the results, but when he falls out of the GC, he still keeps trying to get into the breakways. He is, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, here, a team like J. Ko'alula, you come into the tour and you say, OK, before the start, say, what does success look like? Success for them, I would imagine, looks like a stage win and a rider in the top 10. They achieved both of those things today. Ben O'Connor got the stage win and moved into the top 10.

He sits in 10th place now, so that is a hell of a win for the team, for him, for all of it. And as we typically see in the third week of a Grand Tour, you typically see the same guys in the breakaway. I wouldn't be surprised if I see him and a couple of other of his teammates in the breakaway tomorrow, battling it out. The morale of the team is gonna be super high.

The pressure's off. Now they can just have fun the rest of the race and would not be surprised if I see them battling out for another win here in the next couple of days. Well, those two guys in the car who we're just talking to, Plapp and Schmid, I would look for them on stage 20. I heard a funny story about Plap.

This was a few stages ago in the neutral zone. There was like Aussies on the side of the road and he's like all excited. He's like, oh, you guys are legends. So great. But he's not paying attention and he overlapped wheels and crashed in the neutral zone. Jesus Christ.

Apparently, Pogatroy crashed in the neutral zone today. He said he was following the Visma car, and they brake checked him. And he went right into the back. Did they do that on purpose? That would be a little aggressive. No, that's not how we do that. Is that like marginal gains now?

You just look for the other riders and hit them on the road? We talked a lot here about Ben O'Connor and his fantastic race at the front of the field. We can't go to break without talking about Bismo. This is just, we've spent so much time these three weeks talking about their tactics, questioning their tactics as we watch the race today.

I think we all sit here collectively going, what are we doing? It's maybe a better, it's a great question for Johan later on in your show with him. So Bradley, I, this is a head, this is a real head scratcher for me. One of the things I can't work is why they're so vocal about what they're going to do and when they're going to do it. Like they've targeted, they keep, you know, pin this stage, hasn't they? Yeah. They said semi publicly that the whole tour,

their whole strategy was about cracking Pagache today. Right. Why would you say that though? Why would you say that? Do you know what Pagache rode the final climb at? 1500 van was it? Yeah, 5.5 watts per kilo.

Which is the final climb. Based on the numbers he said to our friend, Peter Attia, in his interview, that's zone two for him. But they look like it. Yeah, like now he's fine for tomorrow too. It starts to compound on itself. Which he's there at the tour, Peter Attia. I saw that last night actually.

Is he over there? Yeah, he's over there. We should call him, get a little inside scoop. Shout out. I did have a question. We talked about this on the ride the other day. Maybe we'll talk about it on a less exciting day or a non-mountain day, which we're running out of time to do.

But I just had a question around this whole nutrition plan and the way that the guys are consuming so much fuel. Maybe we'll park that for Saturday. But yeah. But why? By the way, too, when you talk about a VAM of 1500, this is what I do know about climbing and VAM, is it's much easier to have a great VAM performance

on a really steep climb. I mean, it could, this was an incredibly steep climb. So to have it there, I mean, he's just chilling. He's ready. He was chilling. He was bored on the train. Yeah, and they're riding and Tade's back there. He's ready. He was chilling. He was bored on the train. Yeah, and they're riding. And Tadej's back there.

He's got two guys still with him. Yeah, but at the same time, Vismo, they're doing everything they can. It might not look like the best tactics, but what other options do they have? Other than going for stage wins, I'd love to see some of these guys get a free card. Like, all of a sudden, Sep Kus is creeped into the top 10.

No, that's fake news. It was fake. Yeah, they were incorrect. Oh man. 25 minutes or something out of the top 10. I mean, what they could do about it, stop telling us about it, you know, just leave it to the road and surprise us.

And what they could also do is do nothing. Yeah. They haven't tried that one yet. They haven't tried that yet. Still on here at stop 10. Do absolutely nothing. Ben O'. They haven't tried that one yet. They haven't tried that yet. Still on here as top 10. Do absolutely nothing. Stage 18, Ben O'Connor, 29 minutes back, 10th place, Jordan Jigot, 32 minutes back,

Sepp Kuz, 12th, 49 minutes back. Okay. Are you looking at 2025 or 2024? No, I'm at stage 18. Yeah. Oh, that's the stage. But. I don't hate the approach of just saying we're not going to do anything.

Yeah, I agree. The race play out. Yeah. Put the pressure. I mean, look, the time's up, right? At this point, I think we're all we're just kind of organizing our sock drawer here. But tomorrow is we're going to talk about and break down tomorrow's stage on the second half of the show, it is a very difficult day. It's a short day. I would just do nothing.

So you know what? You got the yellow jersey. You wanna win the Tour de France? You figure this out. We're just gonna chill right here. And we're just go all in for the stage one. But don't put your guys on the front and ride tempo for Tadej Pogacar

to see, to fast forward to what he does at the finish line, which he's done day in and day out. I would have bet my life he'd have done that. He's sitting back, I said it the other day, like he's sitting back there like, what are these guys doing? What, they think they're coming for my crown? Watch this. And allegedly the strategy was put everyone on the front, hard over the mat, and he can't eat and drink on the climb and he can't eat and drink on the descent.

But then why have Mateo clip off and go for the stage when that's where it loses. I don't think he clipped off. I think how hard do you have to go to stop someone eating and drinking? I mean, you know, I guess if they have to keep their hands on the bars, it's very unrealistic. It's very unrealistic. Would that be something if you've never raced a bike, perhaps you would. Well, yeah, as we we've heard, YouTube is all pitched in. Yeah. These expert YouTubers that have never been in the trenches. The theory in 2022, he couldn't take his hands off the bars, and that's why he cracked.

We'll be back in 232. OK, everybody, welcome back to the move. I tell you what is, before the break we talked about Visma and questioned their tactics and Tade is just so much better here in 2025. So I think that race is over. But what is not over, and this isn't just a level set for the viewer or the listener, there's a lot of ways to win in cycling. Obviously winning the Tour de France is the ultimate, but winning a stage, right?

There are many riders that win one stage. Their entire career is made. Teams have team interests. They want to win Team GC. There's the other jerseys. The other one is finishing on the podium. It's a huge deal. You know, it's the big ceremony in Paris. You're up there with obviously the yellow jersey in second place. I mean, it's a really big deal. Fast forward to, and we've been teasing this out and kind of watching this and really admiring this kid who came out of nowhere,

at least for me, Oscar Omley, including Florian Lipowitz, two guys that are really emerging. This race for third, I think, Spencer, where do we have it right now? It's down to- 20 seconds. Oscar Omley, by the way too, if you watch the race today,

got dropped on the Madeline. I don't know if that was- No, Lipowitz got dropped on the Madeline. I don't know if that was... No, Lipowitz got dropped on the Madeline. But so did Omley. Omley was well behind and I don't know if that was calculated or if he was just having a bad patch, but he came back with the vengeance, ended up catching up and then dropping Lipowitz. Anyways, the race for third is now separated by 22 seconds. Well, did you see... I wonder if it was calculated, because you see it's like they came, but it was almost

like hey, I'm going to. He's not. He's measuring his effort. That's incredible for a young rider and keeping in the back of his mind, a to be as fast as possible when he gets dropped, he measures his efforts. So he stays consistent to the line. He's done it on every climb this tour. Yeah.

And he's not gone into the red that much and try to stay with them to the, to the, to the detriment of him exploding. And that's it gone into the red that much and tried to stay with them to the detriment of him exploding. And that's been genius the way he's written it. Not only that, but he had three teammates with him after such a hard climb. But Algeet did a great job today. They did an incredible team ride today. Also, Lipowicz losing about a minute today or so to Anli, but was essentially on his own from the Madeline up until 5K to go to the top of the Cote de l'Oly.

So he burnt a lot of matches today. And I'm wondering if the team is kind of scratching their head going, uh-oh, tomorrow's going to be a bit tough to hold onto this third spot. I wonder if that's what picnic strategy was trying to avoid because Lipowitz tries to go with them. The leaders win because it was Kuz Vinograd-Pogacar. He tries to go, he gets dropped. win, because it was Kuss, Vinograd, Pogacar. He tries to go, he gets dropped, he's stuck in no man's land.

Behind, Anli's just with his team, like they're like a freight train going to that valley, and then think how much more. I don't think so. I think there's no way they could have predicted the situation, what happened in the valley, in between the Madeline and the Coles-Lolos. It was essentially the top four GC guys,

just looking at each other. Nobody's gonna pull. They had three guys up the road. Couldn't they have predicted that though? I don't, I mean, you would think, but you couldn't predict. It's risky. You couldn't predict Pogatar losing his top lieutenants.

You couldn't predict Vindigo losing his top lieutenants. So you would guess the way the race is gone, they'd be with one or two guys. Those guys would ride. They weren't, they were on their own. None of them would collaborate. So they took a risk and it worked out for them. But there's no way they could have predicted that.

You say losing his top lieutenants, but one of his top lieutenants rode away from him. I still don't understand that. Why did Matteo go up the road? To me that invalidates the whole strategy. He should never have gone up the road. I don't think so. I think what else can they do?

At least they can hope, they can hope pull hard in the valley to do more work for PokéChart. To drop him on the climb. At least, that's not, he's not going to do any damage in the valley. I've done it. It's like four or five percent valley. At least they have. But then why attack on the climb? Well, at least have Jürgensen in the front in case Windigo is on this unbelievable day

and can maybe pop Poker Trap, unlikely, obviously never happens. Catch up to Juergensen, make a difference, but did nothing, none of that ended up happening. And by the way it was Oscar Onley ended up when the stage finished put a minute 39 into Leipic's. So a lot more than a minute. Yeah. This is going to be closed tomorrow. And there's blood in the water now. They smell it. That's right. And it also means that, and we haven't seen a final stage in Paris like this one, but if what we think will might happen happens, I mean, this is going to be a race. Do you know the key to Lipovic's podium is gonna be at this race?

It's gonna be Rolich. Do you see how easy he was coming out of the finish line? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's gonna be his biggest asset. If they can ride together a bit more than two. I think that's gonna be the key to him getting the podium. But let me ask you this. I think, was it not a mistake from the board,

directors being, Lipovic's a young guy, get it, he's all in, adrenaline, he catches back up to the main group. Shouldn't they have been like, okay, you got Roglic with you, just recover because Anli's coming. You go on your own in that valley. They all know that valley. That valley would just crush you. It crushed me and I was going easy last year before the climb. I felt like they should have held him back there and stayed in the group, recovered and then started the climb kind of new. It's funny because Bernard E there and stayed in the group recovered and then started the climb kind of New it's funny because Bernard Eisel came up in the team car and he was laughing and joking with Rolich when he was handing

Bottles out and stuff. Yeah It's a strange one. Do you think he like the time he gained in the valley is Less than the time he would have like he would have lost less time if he just stayed in the group I believe so and not only that but he would be better tomorrow I mean he put in a huge effort today. He was essentially on his own for the last half of the race. Should they have dropped Roglic back on the Madeline for him? No, I think, no, I don't think so.

I think at that point when he got dropped on the Madeline, they're thinking Roglic can maybe pop into the top three in the overall. So that was an OK call in my opinion. But letting him go off the front of the valley and burning all those matches before such a hard climb, 25, 26 kilometer climb. I don't know. That was a mistake in my opinion. He was also chasing if you watched on the descent, the moto was like,

basically it was like Pogacar was on a motor pacing session and then Lipowitz, the camera was behind him. So he's getting no draft from that moto while he's catching them, which must've drained him. Yeah. A camera moto? Yeah. It was like, it looked like they were training with a moto. That's how close the camera was.

Well, you get a little older and you figure out how to convince him to not film from behind you, convince him to film from the front. Yeah. I mean, 100%. If that were me, I'd be like, the front. Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent. If that were me, I'd be like, no, this angle's a lot better.

Come over. Just, there's ways to play that game. We've all done the metal end. I mean, the motos can't really go much faster than the bikes on that thing. It's straight, you know, the corners are, are pretty, pretty nice corners where you can haul ass through.

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He listened to us No, I didn't Do cats drink ketones? Take your speaking of ketones take your shot get 20% off your order at ketone.com slash the move ketone.com slash the move folks. That's why you do not fast forward to the commercials Because you would have missed George making fun of me. Last one of the day, heating up. It actually didn't heat up at the tour. It has been heating up in moments. That's the beauty of the tour, right? You get a couple days ago, they're talking about the heat. Now they're finishing

at the summit, finishing the mid forties, hailing. It's the tour de France. We've got no worry about heat in Aspen at the moment, have we? And I was starting to say we've been sweating here, but it's actually, it's cools off quite a bit here. Of course, we are at 8,000 feet. But nonetheless, you go out there and exercise. I was in the gym this morning. I was sweating.

Very similar to the top of Cote de la Loz today. 40 degrees and raining. That's colder than it is here, but yeah. Element is our go-to hydration and rehydration source. 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium. No sugar, no gluten, no artificial ingredients, no BS. Here's the kicker.

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You know what stands out for me, and I did a little, just some quick math on, obviously if you look at the profile, but if you just looked at it and you didn't know anything about cycling, you might say to yourself, where are the flat roads? They're nowhere, right? This is this, this stage is either up or down

the entire day. And look at the end, just under 130 kilometers. You all know this, those short stages that just they'll be on their turbo trainers. Reeks of animation. Yeah, warm up, a day like this. Warm up. And the green Jersey sprint is really early on,

which is been seen now. We're saying that. Well, that competition is over now, isn't it? Well, mathematically, no, because Jim's mob should shout Jim out because he's he's probably sad that he bet on Pogacar to win. Well, mathematically, you have the time cut as well that you got. Yeah. Or anything could happen, right? Abduction, who knows?

But so if he doesn't get the green tomorrow, if it doesn't get the intermediate sprint tomorrow But gotcha wins the stage But gotcha gets the intermediate sprint in Paris and then wins the stage. He wins green the sprints 8k And there's absolutely no chance that he can get it a little yeah I mean that their whole team will be on the front for 10k I mean you and I can control over 10k probably not but I'm just saying for a track, they can do it. That's their main goal. They will get that points. I agree. Harder to make time cut on shorter stages too.

Gabrielle, can we go back to the profile real fast? All right, so again, here, if you're watching this show, you can see it's a one, two, three, four, five categorized climbs. You got a category two, a one, horse category, category two, and then finish up at La Plana horse category. 130 130 kilometer stage. I just did some quick math because each of these climbs, if you have this in front of you, if you can see it, it tells you how long they are. 60 kilometers of the 130 kilometer stage are going uphill. This is a hard day.

Right. So then I want to go back to Oscar Anley and Florian Lipowitz. I mean, this is for them and for that fight, this is the day. Yeah. This this is their race for those two guys. Yeah. Let's not forget about Paris. Paris can be a little mini. Paris made, you know, I don't even know what to think. I'm excited. Tour of Landers or whatever. I mean, Steve Climes, it's not over till they cross the line. The other X Factor about that stage, this new version of the finishing

into Paris is yes, I mean, they're pulling from the Olympic circuits just last year, but a lot of cobblestones and I haven't checked the weather, but if that's the stage rains on those cobbles in Paris, my friends, get ready. Well, and if let's say it's a 10 second gap coming out of tomorrow, you could have time bonus sprints.

Of course, yeah, you're racing. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, I think a lot of the sprinters are, no, I don't think, I know a lot of the sprinters are very insulted with Sunday's stage. I kind of agree with them. Historically, the Shams is about a big sprint and it should remain that way to protect the history of the race.

Yeah, and not to get ahead of ourselves, but since I just mentioned this, I did, I just pulled up the weather forecast for Paris on Sunday. A high chance of rain. Oof. Yeah. And it's live racing. It's not going to be... Yeah. I mean it's live racing. My guess if it's that, if it's rainy and that dangerous, of course, the organizers are probably going to maybe neutralize the time gaps. I don't know. I don't know. You're going to go to the effort and, and,

and make the statement of changing such an iconic final day of the tour de France. I don't think they're gonna neutralize. Well, last year's finish was super technical. If it rained, they wouldn't have neutralized stage 21 last year. It was a time trial. Yeah. But you're on your own.

I mean, if you're crashing on your own, that's your fault. If you're crashing in the rain with 150 guys battling out with small roads, then, you know. Small, very small. I don't think they would neutralize. But is it the 5K? Actually, that is worth looking into. with 150 guys battling out with small roads and, you know, small, very small. I don't think they would nutric, but is it the 5K, like actually that is worth looking into. Is it the 3K rule?

Or maybe it's the final lap, you know, something like that. Reminder folks, last year Tour de France did not finish in Paris due to the Olympic games. For the first time ever, finished outside of Paris, finished in Nice, France. Me personally, I'm real glad it's back in Paris. It just hasn't been. I think it was the only tour for the final stage

to start in a foreign country. Yeah, in Monaco. Sort of, yeah. Sort of, we don't wanna wade into these waters. No, but okay, you know what I mean. Any questions? George Crashty in the rain in Paris once, did you? I mean, okay, you know what I mean. Any questions? George crushed in the rain in Paris once, did you? I did. Yeah. Oh, we should say I did. That was not fun. Tomorrow's forecast is cold and rainy. Yeah. It was also. Yeah. So it's not a nothing stage. And you know, I said it, there's

60 kilometers of climbing, which pretty much means there's, I don't know, 50 or 60 kilometers of descending. Time counts. Yeah. Maybe you'll see the car out there trying to mow down. Spencer, we have created a monster. You came into the week, the tour. He was the nicest guy. He was all night. I know. He was the nicest guy. I have been eclipsed. He was the biggest ass slugger on the show. I don't know about, let's not go that far. I will say when you're on text, it was that this morning, I felt a little responsible for even speaking about somehow making Pagache or crash my go another going out from with the car. Okay. So it was a big question from Casper. This is also assuming Jonas Vendegaard does not drop everybody and win the tour

tomorrow, but let's assume Jonas does not win this tour. Should Jonas skip the tour next year and target the zero, well the double instead. He'd likely win both by a fairly comfortable margin. I don't know about that actually. Realistically he will not beat Pogacar unless Tadej crashes or gets sick in his lance set today who cares about second place. Jan Oreck would trade all of his podiums for one more win. Guys like Jakob Folesang wasted prime years chasing a tour GC

when they would have had better palmaris focusing elsewhere. Why do so many riders chase a top 10 at the tour when they could win the Giro, Vuelta, or big spring classics instead? I don't wanna say, I don't wanna say podium of the tour is bigger than winning the Giro or the winning the Vuelta. What would you guys think? It was a tough one. Yeah. In terms of attention. I would say the Giro or the winning the Welter? What would you guys think? That's a tough one. In terms of attention. I would say the Giro is bigger than a podium

at the Tour. I wouldn't say the Welter is. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And it's a fair question. But think about this for a second. If Jonas Vingegaard is not in this race, Florian Lippowicz is sitting in second. He's 11 minutes behind. Yeah. So this is not close between first and second. It would be extremely not close if he wasn't here. I mean, my answer to Casper, too, you never know what's going to happen. I think a team like that with that budget, with the interest of the tour,

he has to be there. He's got to be there. And's gotta be there. I agree. And look, Tadej Pogacar came on the scene seemingly out of the blue. So who knows? I mean, we spent a lot of time talking about Oscar Omley. Yeah. He's on a marginal team.

Sounds like he's staying there for a few more years, but is this a kid who can develop into, this kid can spend an off season and he could have one or two seasons and all of a sudden, could be right there. I would say to answer Casper's question, think about Matthew Vanderpool. The guy looked on top of the world, then he has pneumonia, he's out of the tour. If you're one of the two best stage directors in the world, you have to show up because you never know what's going to happen. Before I forget, the Vent. Before I forget the Ventum Daily Trivia question of the day.

Yesterday's question, the Rhone Valley location of Stage 17 is known for peloton breaking winds. What formation is that that the riders do to try and combat the crosswind? Answer. Survey says. Echelon. That was not very hard. Stage 18, the question is a recent addition to the high mountain says, Echelon. That was not very hard. Stage 18, the question is, a recent addition to the high mountain finishes of the tour, Col de la Loz is quickly gaining infamy for decisive duels and GC shakeups.

What feature of this climb makes it unique among other climbs used in the tour. What feature? What feature of this climb makes it unique among other climbs used in the tour? Send your answers over to VentumRacing.com slash The Move and get entered to win the grand prize. Five thousand bucks of store credit. VentumRacing.com slash The Move. What feature of this climb makes it unique among other climbs used in the tour? Everybody any more questions? Well, okay, so you you opened up this box The third place rider at this tour is 11 minutes back currently Florian Lippowitz Is it bad for the sport that all the other like outside of Jonas and Tadej?

The best stage racers are locked away on Tade's team. And of course they will not let him, them race against him at the tour. Should there be a salary cap or some sort of way to break that up? How much longer do we have on the show? Look, this is an issue or a conversation around the structure of the sport.

So that would be if you had an adult conversation, that would be part of the conversation. Because you're talking about Almeida, you're talking about Del Toro. R.A.P. By Yuso. R.A.P. By Yuso, who's trying to get off UAE. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think in terms of these guys right below poker char, I mean, they're only shot of actually ever winning a grand tour is to leave UAE now. So they're going to start looking at maybe perhaps taking less of a salary and trying to go to a team that'll be all behind them. So it could make the,

the tour more interesting in the next couple of years. The problem is they're all locked into like eight year deals and their buyouts are 100 million euros. Oops, oops. Go fund me. Yeah, and also salary, we throw around the word salary cap, like it's really easy. Like US sports leagues have lobbied Congress

and paid a lot of money to pass special laws so they can't have salary caps because technically that's wage suppression. It's not legal. I think it would be hard to do in Europe. You'd have to do some sort of token system where it's like if you can't have more than four riders who have podiumed a grand tour on your team.

Because if you try to restrict people's earning, it will not fly in the EU. You start to get... I mean, look, Spencer in the pre-show, you referenced an article that mentioned that 15 of these World Tour teams are searching for a title sponsor. So on one hand, you have that to me reeks almost of desperation

or of crisis. On the other hand, you've got a team with endless money that has these riders stacked on the squad that we just talked about. And those don't, that's not, that's not healthy, right? Whatever's going on there. So that should lead to a conversation like,

hey, what do we do? I personally think that the sport should be structured in a way just like any other major sports league. Look at European soccer, look at the NFL, look at NBA. The European soccer might not be a good example. Well, you're owning the franchise. So with that, you're actually owning something. I personally think the sport, they should sell.

Well first thing they should sell, well first thing they should do is get rid of the UCI. We don't need the UCI. Number one. Number two, I think you should, whatever that entity is that owns the sport, whether it could even be ASL, because they own the most dominant race in the world, fair enough, and you sell 20 franchises. Look, we created a soccer league in the United States 25 years ago. People laughed at them. Phil Landschutz and the Hunts went around and said, we're going to start a soccer league. We've got 20 teams. Anybody want to buy them? Nobody put up their hand. The franchises were $10 million. Two people put their hand up. The Hunts and Anschutz

said, well, we'll buy the other teams and we'll develop them and hopefully eventually other people will want to buy them and this will trade. That's what you're supposed to do. We should franchise this thing where you're building franchise value. You share in the upside of the sport, whether that's global broadcast rights, sponsorship, et cetera, et cetera, so that you're actually owning and participating in something and in its upside. That's what should happen. Then you're not, then it, well, you got me going. Then you're no longer as dependent on,

as is the case with 15 teams, on begging for a new title sponsor. You are actually owning something, right? And so that can all be done, in my opinion, without the UCI. All you need is the events, the riders, and the teams. Yeah, well, yes, I agree, especially on the UCI part. But I think what we should clarify,

this search for sponsorships from 15 teams, if you read between the lines, I think what is happening, it's like Lotto and Intermarché. Intermarché's saying we have 18 million. That used to be enough. That's not even close to enough because that is just, like Pogacar would take up half of that budget if they signed him.

So you have a few teams with really, really, really big budgets and other teams are like, how do we double our budget? Because we need to double our budget to survive. I kind of think like, why not have 10 teams? Like, why do we need 18 World Tour teams? But it's just, to survive. I kind of think, why not have 10 teams? Why do we need 18 World Tour teams? But isn't that kind of the way the world in Europe, Bradley?

Think about Real Madrid. I'm curious about that. They're just a really rich. I see them right here. The wheels are spinning up there. Yeah. Something's got to change, because where are we going to be as a sport in 20 years' time?

That's right. And you see the classic example of Lotto and Wante having to combine to maximize their budgets, but aren't 15 riders going to lose their jobs in doing that more? So it's a complicated one. But I agree with you. I think that that's probably the way forward. Mason Tate Yeah. And then layer in, and again, this is all just a matter of believing what you read, but if you, the preliminary numbers from this tour, the 2025 Tour de France, a global television audience is significantly down, right?

So as a sport, if the NFL's numbers were down to the tune of what I read in this piece, my friends, I mean, every single owner of an NFL team would be in a conference room sitting there going, okay, how do we tweak this formula? Because this isn't going to work for us, right? It's time to get real, right? And you have a beautiful sport, you have tons of history, obviously plenty of complications in the past, still to this day not managing those things in my opinion. But let's be real, it's time to be real.

That's a better way of doing it than someone buying the Giro and moving the Giro to July, like you suggested last week, and putting a 20 million pound winner's prize on it and come start fee. Why not? Yeah, no, but I think, I think then you start to lose the essence of the sport and it and its traditions and it's where that may be the only way that this thing changes is big money coming in and making big moves. Cause we've been talking, we've had the same conversation for the last five, six years and there hasn't been any change. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the, the, um, and look at the U S calendar. I mean, 10 years ago we had tour of California, which is huge.

Missouri, Georgia, all these races. To be fair, we should say like the MBAs ratings are in the toilet too. So it's not like it's just a cycling thing. No, look, I think if I, uh, owned a piece of any sport and, and, and those numbers were presented to me. I think you have to question, first you have to step back and say, how are people consuming, two parts here, how are people consuming content and how are younger people consuming content?

Because those are the people that are eventually going to consume my content as a team owner. The sport of cycling, five hour stages, three week races. I mean, is that, like if I said to my kids, right, my daughter almost 15, my son 16, hey, you want to sit around, they'd be like, nah, yeah, no, dad.

I'm gonna watch 90 second clips on TikTok. And I got it, right? So that is a question of consuming content, how we're doing that. Especially when we watched the first time trial and we couldn't even get time splits on the TV. It's not good, you know? Yeah. Who opened up this cannon worm?

So I really riled up. I was having a great day. We have a nice one to finish. My hair was on point. Come on, dog. Still is. Hair hasn't gone anywhere. Thank you, Spencer. So, Dave, I just want to- I think that is an important point. The hair hasn't gone anywhere.

Yeah. That is always my point. Yeah. People may be, oh, he's so silver, so gray. I also feel very strongly about this. Excuse me, you evolved. Yeah, it's like, okay, I'm going gray, but the hair's still there. Okay, what's the complaint?

What's the last question? So, George has got to go to 4020s. Hey, George, Lance, Bradley, Spencer. As a longtime listener of the MOVE Podcast, I've been to one of your podcasts. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s.

I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go to 4020s. I'm going to go the last question? So, George's gotta go to 40 20s. Hey George, Lance, Bradley, Spencer. As a long time listener of the MOVE Podcast, I've been wondering what happened to the boomstick? I really missed it during this year's tour. That's awesome. Ben O'Connor should have gotten the boomstick.

I think we used it once this year. Yeah, we gave it to Quinn Simmons one day. Where, I don't even, I lost it. Virtual boomstick for Ben O'Connor. Also, here's a photo of George and me, thisnor. Also, here's a photo of George and me. This is really crazy. Here's a photo of George and me at the 2012 Pro Cycling

Challenge. That just happened. No, this guy's emailing into us now. That's how fast time's flying. Yeah. That's your announcement? This is from Parker. OK, lucky here.

Was it Parker asking about the boomstick? She's back. What do we think? Ben O'Connor. Ben O'Connor. Ben O'Connor. Ben O'Connor, 100% Boomstick. And then we'll keep it at the desk. We'll keep it around.

I appreciate that. It's tricky to have around because it makes a lot of noise when you put it on the desk. But I'll keep it right here. And tomorrow, I'm super keen on this fight for the podium. We're going to be giving the Boomstick to one of those two guys, maybe. Yeah. Hopefully, one of the two.

Yeah. What if Roglic comes back? We never know. Oh, George would be so happy. I would be, yeah. He's so, I mean, let me guess. Who was that guy you asked to poster him in your bathroom? I don't remember.

For real, it was Roglic. No, no, no. I don't guy? Yes a poster of him in your bathroom with the No, no, no No, no that guy who was it tell me it's Belgian the guy you were such a fanboy of Whatever Whatever the posters down and he now having a poster. Any writer in my bathroom. Whatever, the poster's down and he now has a Primo's poster in his bathroom. He's such a fanboy. By the way, he's a sick writer, so I support it. All right, cool.

Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow. I'm a little bit of a