THEMOVE - Are Younger Stars & New Talents Changing the GC Landscape? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down the racing action at Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico over last week, including Visma-LAB's intra-team leadership battle between Matteo Jorgesnon and Jonas Vingegaard, what Vingegaard's underperformance, crash and subsequent injury means for his chances against Tadej Pogačar at the Tour de France, and much, much more.   Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Acces: https://access.wedu.team/   Pique: For a limited time, get 20% off for life plus a free Starter Kit (rechargeable frother and glass beaker) when you grab the Pu'er Bundle. With Pique's 90-day money-back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Try it now at https://www.piquelife.com/themove and feel the difference on your next ride.   AG1:  AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out. https://www.DrinkAG1.com/themove   Caldera Labs: Skincare doesn’t have to be complicated—but it should be good. Upgrade your routine with Caldera Lab and see the difference for yourself. Go to https://www.CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use THEMOVE at checkout for 15% off your first order.  

I don't know, maybe I'm overestimating Aiso, but I feel like it's his time and Roglic and Jets could be not as good as they were in the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for listen, that's for sure. For sure. Roglic and Adam Jets are obviously at the end of the down-board curve of their career, but still, still strong, still capable of being in front. still strong, still capable of being in front. Everybody welcome back to the move plus, which is returned for this week, our weekly show. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bruniel that we do to sum up the racing that's happened. A few topics of the week that have come up as well as any listener questions.

If you want to ask Johan questions on this show, send them into info at we do.team. But before we get into my Joe Mateo Jorgensen at Perry niece and what's going on at Toronto at Radico, who's going to win that. I want to talk about our sponsors. Our first one today is peak teas. I love a good cup of coffee until it loves me a little bit too much. The jitters, the crash, the, why am I already on my third cup? That happens to me all the time feeling.

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a bottle of D three K two and five free travel packs in your first box. If you redeem the code, the move at drinkag1.com slash the move to get that offer. That's drinkag1.com slash the move to get that offer. That's drinkag1.com slash the move to start your new year on a healthier note, as well as redeem all the little gifts that we just talked about. All right, back to the show. Johan, to keep this intro short and sweet. We've had two races going on. Perinese, these are two week long stage races. Perinese, Tirano Adriatico, Cliff Notes, Perinese is in France, Tirano Adriatico in Italy between two seas on either side of the country. Matteo Jorgensen, the American defending champion is winning

a Perinese currently leading it. I've got a big boost today after his team, his Wiesma team just shredded the field in the crosswinds. We didn't really see it. It was like right when the TV was starting TV coverage, they were joined by Enios and Mateo alone, Mateus Schelmosa. So all those guys had incentive to keep going. They blew the gap open. Looks like Joao Alameda is probably out of it. Jorgensen closing in on his second consecutive peri-nice win at Torino Adratico. It's been a weird rhythm. That's kind of a weird design. It's strangely designed race, we'll say. Juana Yusso is in second behind Philippe Ogana by 22 seconds. Summit finish tomorrow, we'll decide it. But what have you been thinking as you've been watching these races? What's

sticking out to you the most? Well, first of all, and as I received a few messages from ex colleagues, the retired guys, old guys like me, you know, we're all thinking the same, you know, this brings back such bad memories, you know, these races like Tirreno and, and Parinís in the bad weather, the cold, the wind. Today was a perfect example, I think, in Parinís of how horrible it was. And, you know, even if it's a very long time ago that we're retired, it still brings back flashbacks of that misery we, we all got. And so I mean, I think in Paris nice, it's, it's, it's quite clear. Matteo is in pole position without anything unforeseen. I'm meaning,

you know, accident, crash or material problems. He's my big favorite to win. He has shown that he's extremely strong. Tomorrow is a hard stage, but it's shortened because of the weather. So but it's still uphill finish. I think the last seven, eight K is a climb. He knows these clients, he lives in that area. And then this the typical stage on the last day. That's always a tricky one, right? Because sometimes it's hard to control. But the way he's riding the strength of his team, and now with Almeida and others out of

the picture, his two main rivals are Skell Mose and Florian Lippewich, surprisingly strong in second position now. I mean, we could say surprisingly, it's not such a big surprise because we, I think we also, for the first time, Lippowicz last year in tour of Romandy, coming to the front and he did a great Vuelta afterwards. He's still young. He's the, he's the white Jersey leader. But so yeah, I mean, I think Jorgensen, this is Jorgensen's race. Um, very confident he's going to defend his title. Yeah. I mean, I'll just also a little bit of background stage six was today.

I didn't say, but one by Mads Pedersen out of that reduced, like, let's say 15 rider front group. I mean, it also freezing cold day, 15 rider front group, Mads Pedersen's in it. That's as close to a home run as you can get like he feasts on that type of finish. But Jorgensen, yes, 40 seconds over Lipowitz, who yeah, it's, I guess it's not surprising, but it is kind of surprising to see a young rider. You know, he kind of broke onto the scene last year and then to be able to sustain that excellence in a big race like very nice with a lot of this, not an easy race. There's a lot going on.

A lot of people want to do well. So it is kind of surprising in the sense that he's been able to come back the next year and almost look like he's improved. Schoenmaes is in third at 59 seconds back time in Arnsbein, who was in that move today, 120 back he's on any else and then Jalameda and fifth at two 40. So I will get to the Jorgensen, Jonas Vindigo kind of strangeness and then also Jonas crashing out. But before we do that, Joel Ameda is what is going on here? He I've not seen a writer that can look.

This is the second time this year where he's destroyed a summit finish. What was that back on stage four? Like looked incredible, just like you did it out of Garbet. And then, A, what happened in the team time trial? His team was terrible. And then just missing the move today. It's like, I don't fully get what's going on there. Yeah. Missing the move today. I think, you know, today it's, it's a matter of who can keep pedaling. And I, I don't think,

I don't think Almeida does very, very well in the bad weather. Um, you know, these are, these are horrible days, man. I mean, and then if you just miss it by 10 meters, it's over, you know, it's over now, you know, if you're a contender for Paris, Nice, and you see that this is getting together and go to the front. It's hard to think that with alarm bells might start ringing if you saw that. So, you know, so, but you know, this whole team missed it. You know, the whole of Bahrain Victoria's missed it. All, you know, there's, there's a bunch of teams that had certain

ambitions for, for GC and a bunch of them missed Mr. Lenny Martinez lost nine minutes today. And he was looking incredible yesterday, right? Anyway, that's kind of to be expected. You know, he's a super lightweight, pure climber, can't really do anything other than climbing. So I actually had, I have, you know, this these these debates with my son, you know, because he's following. He's following cycling now really, really closely. And he's kind of a fan of Lenny Martinez. And I said, Yeah, well, listen, let me tell you, Lenny Martinez, never in his career is he going to win the Tour de France. He's not able to win the Tour de France. And my son says, Oh, why, why, why? He can only climb, you know, and not even I mean, it's

still to be seen if it's a big mountain stage with several mountains, if he's up to the task, right? I mean, he's a really good rider, but he can't time trial and he can't ride on the flats and he can't ride in the winds. You can never win the tour. It's as simple as that. So, you know, he didn't see the finish of the stage and I was kind of happy to rub it in his face and say, hey, Lady Martina is nine minutes.

Poor Lenny. Just taking shots. out to rub it in his face and say, Hey, let me Martinez nine minutes. Poor, poor Lenny. But you bring up a good point. So stage five was a steep finish, like a kilometer steep. You would not say that good for Jorgensen. He got smoked by Lenny Martinez in the sprint, but that's what Lenny Martinez does. You know, he's so small. He's so explosive. He's going to do well where things get complicated for him. Like outside of today's like today, where he just probably doesn't have the power or racing type to be in that front group and group in the crosswinds. But if you really think about long climbs,

like especially at the tour, it's really the time trialists that do well. It's people like Mateo Jorgensen. Yeah. Like you have to be able to put out a lot of power for a long time. So that would also be a concern of mine about Lenny, but to go back to stage five Jorgensen doesn't, he doesn't care about the stage when he got third, he got the time bonus. He dropped Joel Amada, which was key. And then his teammate, Jonas Vindigo, Vinny guard, Vinigo, he fell earlier. I didn't see it. I don't know if it was on camera, but he didn't look up, but his hand appeared not to be okay. His lip was split. You know, there was blood and then,

but apparently he had problems with the hand. And then I read, I read an interview of company afterwards that he couldn't, he couldn't shift or it could almost not break. So they already knew that something was going on. Then I saw the interview also of Grisha Nirmann that said this morning, we already knew yesterday that he was out. He said, normally we would have to count on a miracle. And as far as I look

on the map, we're not that close to Lourdes. You know, it was to be expected. And yesterday, Jonas had told Jorgensen already that he was not feeling good. So he could go for it. Now, speaking of Visma and Jonas and Jorgensen, and you know, we've been messaging about it. When was it stage three or stage three, I guess, or stage four, stage four, the day after the team time trial, Jorgensen was in the lead, uphill finish. There's a selection and, you know, to our surprise, we see Jonas attacking, not once, not twice, three times. Takes off. Matteo is having a bit of problems. I mean, he's not, he didn't lose a lot of time, but still, you could say, well, you know, we have two leaders and we want to make sure that we cover all our bases that that well, you know, we have two leaders and we want to make sure that we cover our bases that that's, you know, and Jonas went there with ambition.

I personally mean, and this is just me, right? If I would be the director or the manager of the team, I would have tried to convince Jonas before the start of before the start of Tire Novi, because they all know how good they are. They all know at which level they are. And if you have a guy like Jürgensen in your team, who's defending champion, who's super ambitious to try to win again, I guess I think from before the start of Parinis, it should have been clear if it would have been my team, that this is Jorgensen's race and Jonas has a, you know, has a free role in case Jorgensen gets him problems, but he should put himself at the service of Jorgensen because Jorgensen is of an

unbelievable value for Jonas and a lot of other races. Whether Jonas wins Parinís or not, it doesn't really matter. If Jürgensen wins Parinís, you have an extremely good rider with a great result, happy and super committed to the leader later on. I'm not saying that Jürgensen is not going to do that now, right? I mean, even if Jonas would win Par when by the Nissan, Jorgensen get third or fourth, he would still do his job. But it's these little things that I think that in this case, a guy like Jorgensen should have gotten more of a leader's role than Jonas. And it's something that I've seen a few times already with with with Visma, you know, they

have a really strong team, they have great results, but sometimes it's difficult to find like a really designated leader, you know, not I think nobody has forgotten the Vuelta two years ago, for example, right? Yeah. When they had three guys and they were top three, but it was the, they couldn't pick a guy. Yeah. When they had three guys and they were top three, but, uh, it was, they couldn't pick a guy. Well, it's the same thing that it really bothers me. And it's Jonas every time where he attacks the yellow Jersey and his team.

It was more so with Sep than with Mateo, but they're kind of looking around. Like, what do I do? Because I don't, like, I'm losing the race. It's like punching someone with their hands tied behind their back. Cause what are they going to do? They can't chase you down. And it, it just to go to like the root of the issue. It just feels strange. Even if you win the race, let's say Jonas stays away on stage four wins. Is that the best thing for his tour? I just don't get that because then what Mateo is kind of mad at you? What, why are you doing this? I don't, don't you want to build goodwill? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's my way of thinking now. I mean, we don't,

obviously we don't know what the agreements were within the team, right. And what they have spoken about. Um, but, um, but I know, so, you know, it, in their favor, you have to say, but it is a strange race, you know, it's often one, but not much time differences. So you never know, right? It's not like a grand tour when somebody shows that he's the best way he's winning. Right. I mean, this is different. This is different, but you can, you can know, I mean, I'm pretty sure that Matteo was probably

the strongest in the deep time trial already. These guys know that, you know, amongst can you can know, I mean, I'm pretty sure that Matteo was probably the strongest in the deep time trial already. These guys know that, you know, amongst each other, they feel how strong their teammates are in there. And, and yeah, so, but they was not the strongest on stage four. But he was in the lead, and he would have kept the leaders jersey for sure. So, you know, it was, it was up to, you know, it was up to UAE basically to put the hurt on Mateo, right? And not his own teammate. If it's UAE, who attacks and then Jonas follows and sees that Matteo can't follow. I said, okay, but not with Lenny Martinez and then just go for the stage win with the risk of putting the

leader's jersey in problems. And what we haven't mentioned yet is it was terrible weather on the stage. They stopped multiple times. Like really the worst stage you could possibly ever try to defend a Jersey on a steep final climb because you're standing still. I think they like stopped it. People were getting dressed. Still not a great situation because it's like, Oh, it's hailing let's stop. And now we're standing out in the hail and we're getting colder. I mean, stopping in a restart, that's the worst. I mean, And you'd think in that situation, I mean, maybe Matteo didn't say it. I would say it.

I would say, Hey man, I'm not feeling that awesome. Let's try to ride this climb as slow as possible. Like let's just minimize what could go wrong today. Yeah, but you don't know, you don't know until until it's really, it really matters, you know, because let's not forget they stopped for quite a while. Then apparently I don't know which I saw the movie star was with four or five guys like going straight from the restart. Did you see what happened to them? And then Matt Spettersen got to the front and said, see you later and just dropped the whole movie star team.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, so I mean, it's difficult situations. Then it's also the debate, well, should they have should they have stopped? I don't want to sound I mean, I know I'm going to sound like like an old grumpy guy, but they have seen I've seen a lot worse and back in the days with the clothing was nothing compared to what they have now. The race just kept going. I think we all know the images of the Giro over the Gavia and when Andy Hampson won the Giro and Paris Nice in the snow. Okay, if it's snow, it's snow. And that's, but you know, it was not snow. It was hail.

Once you stop in those circumstances, man, it's difficult. I think the decision should be made then. Okay. This is over. That's just, you know, not start anymore. In 20 K restart with 20 K to go or 25 K to go. That's, that's not good. No, no. I mean, the whole thing was a mess too, because you have some writers saying we want to stop. It's very complicated. No, no. I mean, the whole thing was a mess, too, because you have some writers saying we want to stop. It's very complicated. Must be a complicated on the ground, right? For the commissaries, because like some guys are saying they want to stop.

Do they represent the whole Peloton? Ineos is attacking. They don't want to stop. But what I guess we should to wrap to put a bow on this. The worst part about this is he does. If he goes on to win the stage and get a big time gap, it's one thing he gets caught and creates a situation for Almeida to take time on both himself and Jorgensen. So it was like the worst possible outcome.

You don't know what, you don't know what's going to happen, right? What's clear is that, uh, well, first of all, I think he was also suffering from the cold for sure, everybody was so you know, you don't you're not your usual self. And until you really go 100%, you don't know how your body's gonna react, right? So we saw Jonas attack, drop Martinez took a gap on the other favorites, everybody was thinking, okay, Jonas is going and you know, this is this is it. But he didn't

create a big gap. He took 10 seconds and then it was down to eight and to six and finally didn't win the stage. So this was obviously not yet the 100% strong Jonas. We've already seen that in Algarve, right? I mean, he won Algarve, but he was not superior. He was, you know, he, he, he lost a bit of time in the, in the uphill finish and he won the time trial. Well, yeah. And even so setting aside the injury and that summit finish on stage five. So he's had two healthy summit finishes this year, both times beaten beaten by Joel Almeida. Are we concerned about this? That's true. I didn't think about that. Yeah.

Yeah. And Almeida is a lesser version of Pagachar. So, if you're not beating Almeida, you're not beating Pagachar. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Let's be honest. Cycling isn't great for your skin, whether you're riding on a warm sunny day or through cold and dry conditions, your skin's going to need a little bit of help when it gets home. That's exactly what Caldera lab is here for. Their high performance skincare is designed specifically for men, simple, effective, and backed by science and a consumer study,

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skincare doesn't have to be complicated, but it should be good. Upgrade your routine with Caldera lab and see the difference for yourself today. Go to caldera lab.com slash the move and use the move at checkout for 15% off your first order. That's caldera lab.com slash the move spelled out. And remember use code the move at checkout for 15% off your first order. All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah. No, I'm not concerned about things at all. You know, I don't is, uh, he's going to be fine. Um, obviously this crash and this injury is probably a bit of a, but you know, he can, he's gonna, he can skip, he can keep training.

Um, I guess his next race is Catalonia. Uh, and then I guess the next one is Dauphiné. So he has two more stage races until the tour. And those are only two races before the tour. I think so. That's why I haven't seen anything else. I haven't seen anything else. Uh, yeah, this also shows us, I think if his hand's not broken, he's going to be fine. If his hand's broken, I guess that could be, there could be complications there, but it's not

broken. They, I don't even know where that got started. I feel like someone said it on Twitter. It's, it's, it's, it's bruised. It's not broken. I, it does show you, you know, we talk a lot about like, but God sure. I shouldn't do Roubaix because it's dangerous. It shows you just racing number of days on the road increases the danger. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

It was just a nothing part of a nothing peri-mi stage and he crashed. I don't know even if there was anybody else who crashed with him. You know, it was not like a mass crash or something. He just crashed, you know, in the middle of the stage. We don't know how or what happened. And I'm slowly backing off my, even as Mateo Jorgensen was doing so well at Peronis, I was like, man, they just don't have any teammates like Tim and Jonas doing everything. And then today where his, uh, Visma team got to the front and

just ripped the race to shreds. I'm slowly backing off the, I'm concerned about Visma take. I don't know how that's going to age because they looked pretty dang good today up there. Yeah. Today was obviously today they had, you know, they have a Fini, they have Campenaerts they had, um, who's the other guy? They have Bartleman. Bartleman has been amazing by the way. Axel Zingle and they have this guy, Per Strand, Hogness. Do you know him?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very strong. So obviously for today's stage, they had a great team uphill. It's not going to be easy. But then again, you know, the other, the other guys, his main contenders who are now Lipowicz and, and Skjelmoza, it's not that they have a few really good climbers to, to, you know, to put the hurt on, on Jorgensen Eder, you know, it's going to be an individual race, man to man. I think I said Skjelmoza made the move by himself. That's not true, obviously,

because Matt said one, but how about Lipowicz made it by himself? That's like, he had somebody there. There was somebody there. Big South. Sobrero. Sobrero. Sobrero. Yeah. Yeah. He's yeah. Cause he finished like fifth on the stage. Lost of nowhere to be seen by the way. Um, I don't know. He's a Russian, he's Russian, but he doesn't like the cold apparently. Is that true? I think it's from like really far north. And I mean, this will kind of take us into Torino. It's the same thing at both stages, but Enneos making the move today.

So it was like really Visma and Enneos at the front. They don't really have a viable winner. Stuff would have to get really weird because their top rider is Arnsman and fourth at a minute 20 back. But they're racing through these two races this week has been night and day compared to last year. Like instead of playing defense, get riders in

the front, set pace, let's get beat by Wiesman UAE when we get to this final. They've just been like sending riders up the road constantly and it's almost unrecognizable. Not just in Paris, the whole season already. They're offensive. You know, it's not like a GC team anymore where all they did was riding even if they didn't have a GC contender, they were still riding. That's gone. I mean, I like it. I like it.

They ride very aggressively and I mean, ultimately it's going to pay off today. Listen, Darling almost beat Peterson. It was not that far off? Yeah. And I feel like last year they would have like sat up. Oh, we have, we have Arnsman, but let's wait for the group to catch on. I mean, did you notice yesterday it was stage four at Torino? Yeah. I, I've never seen like Italy just has so many mountains, like we're nowhere near the Alps and they go through like some central Apennine

region. And it looked like they were like north of the Arctic circle. They were on a plateau, like on a high on what looked like high Alpine terrain. And it was a little windy in NAOS. They have the leaders Jersey here with Ghana and they just like put it in the gutter up on this plateau, like through the feed zone. I mean, it was, I haven't even seen them race like that maybe ever, but they were just, they just ripped the race to shred. It ended up kind of coming back together. Milan was still off the back. So I guess that worked, but just their entire ethos seems

to be transformed. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. They, I think they, they changed strategy and I think, you know, the way that their team is built right now, that's the right way to do it. You know, they don't have anybody who they can go to a stage race with, with saying, okay, you know what, we're the big favorite here. You know, they're always like number three or number four, number five. So you can't bank on that with the whole team.

Um, yeah, I like it. I like the way they're racing. Tadeusz Jirka So at Torino, we have, I couldn't find any odds. So we're not doing outcomes today because I couldn't, the odds are like not up. I couldn't find them in any country, in any market. You maybe could walk down to your local bookie and put a bet in. But last week I bet on Matteo Jorgensen to win Perry Neese and I bet on Juan Ayuso to win Torino Adriatico. I also bet on Juan Ayuso to win stage one. Oops, that was a mistake. But he's 22 seconds behind Ghana. We have a summit finish tomorrow, but then he also, Antonio Tibiri, 29 seconds behind Ghana. Derek G 34 seconds behind Ghana. So there's not, he's not by himself, but do

you think Ayuso finishes this off? And then also, why does Torino just have one summit finish in a week? Yeah, it's, it's, it's a strange, it's a strange, uh, you know, design of the race. Um, from what I've seen until now, I think I've, I used to, I've seen him as the strongest. Um. If everything goes normal, I predict that he's going to win. He should win tomorrow's stage normally, I think. Thibaut is there. He's there. He's not far off. If Ayuso is a bit too, I would say too generous with his efforts because he's doing a lot of efforts. I've seen him already close I think, but I still think I use, so is the, the, the big favorite, uh, the, the really in Derek G Derek G is, is, is obviously he's in great shape also, but, but I think I use

was better. So the final climb tomorrow is 7.8, 7.8 kilometers at 7.9% average. So that's 7.9% average. So that's a lot of effort. So I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I, but I think our use was better. So the final climb tomorrow is 7.8, 7.8 kilometers at 7.9% average. So that's very hard. Ghana's 22 seconds elite. I guess it's possible. Did you see today he had a mechanical or flat in the final? So I think he, I mean, if he would, he would have needed to win today's stage, get 10 more time bonus seconds to even have a chance.

Also going to be enough. I don't think I mean, you know, eight kilometers, 8% Spencer. That's, that's, you know, it's not, that's not like the cheap press or the podge or even called the route where Ghana did a really good time. You know, so I think that's a bit, he's in great shape. He's in great shape. And listen, somebody needs to bet on him from an awesome Ramo, by the way, he's because he's going to be there. But for tomorrow's stage, I think it's, you know, that, that time is too hard for him compared to guys like Ayuso and So in Tver.

And yeah, did you see who won today's stage? Uno X again, Frank Devere Devere, Devere is, I was thinking about you. I was thinking about you, Spencer, uh, on how, how you were going to pronounce this. Frederick. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, listen, he was in the break, he was the only guy left from the break. And then, you know, I'm gonna not gonna say lucky. I mean, the attackers sometimes get fortunate because something happened in the back, there was two or three moments where they were looking at each other. And there was no

organization, there was not many guys left. Almost nobody had teammates left. You know, I think left. Um, you know, I think, uh, wonderful was the big favorite, but, uh, but yeah, he didn't have any teammates left. So I amazing one for, for him. And for that team, I mean, that team is doing really, really great. Really, really great. I mean, I'm actually curious in like two weeks to check the UCI standings to see, cause you're already seeing Astana as these races kind of ramp up in difficulty or competitiveness. The Astana tactic doesn't work quite as well.

Yesterday they were second and fourth in the, in the stage of Barinis. That is crazy. Hold on. I mean, but that, yeah, those, that's like, that's less tactic and more like those guys are just really good. Um, yeah. Clem also Clem and Shampouzane, the one who got second, is that his first good ride in like a decade? Well, he, he won a stage in the Vuelta a few years ago. That was, so he won the stage 2021. He was on, uh, he was on AG2R. AG2R. And then oddly, so he's on AG2R, goes to Arkea Samsec. I think making pretty good money, not a lot of great results. And then on Astana, that was a really good result yesterday.

I mean, then Harold Tejada, really good writer, got fourth. But I was going to put a bow on Torino somehow finishes on it with a sprint. Also kind of weird. I don't fully understand why they do this race the way they do it. But what I was going to say is super hard racing. Like I think, what was that? Two days ago, stage three, this, it was 240 kilometers long. I assume Vanderpool is just here like this is San Remo prep and he's building into San Remo. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But you know, the one thing that they can't control is the weather, you

know, so that's not ideal. Um, but yeah, I mean, typically the Renault was always the race preferred race to prepare Milan San Remo. Um, The weather has been terrible. So I hope from tomorrow on that at least they have a bit of, you know, at least dry weather. Paris-Nice, now they're going more south, more south. Anyway, tomorrow Paris-Nice is also going to be bad, I heard. So it's only going to be the last day in Nice, hopefully for them, which is, which is good weather. But, but yeah, I mean, the Vanderpool is there with, uh, with the intention to prepare for, for, uh, for Milan San Remo for sure. And in terms of moving on from Torino,

I think we both think I used to is going to win. I'm quite curious to see what happens, but I think I used to, I was going to win. Um, and then I, you, I hear, let's say I used. So when's this, he wins the Giro or if he wins this, would you have him as your favorite for the Giro? No, not really. Um, Rockledge is don't know. I mean, I love. He's good. He's good. He's good. But, um, uh, grand tours, he's done. He's done third in the Vuelpa. His first year, right? That's a 19 year old. Yeah. Um, then last year did he, did he withdraw?

He was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, did he, did he withdraw from the tour? I guess so. Yeah. I think he got sick. I think with COVID. Yeah. He got fourth. I think he went back to the Volta the next year and didn't do as well. He had a bad crash and he still got fourth or fifth or something. Yeah. And the field was way better. Listen, he's the guy's pure talent. The same guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He had a bad crash and he still got fourth or fifth or something. Yeah.

And the field was way better. Listen, he's the guy's pure talent. That's, that's, that's for sure. The, you know, when he, this guy, when he races, it's the wind. That's why I say it's a good thing that they don't put him with Pugacar anymore, because you can clearly see that that's not his, in his DNA. He's not, he's not a helper and he's never going to be and he's never been since since he's a junior, he's been a leader, a winner, won everything in the youth categories, you know, and then the 123. I think he was only there for one year, but you know, he was, you know, always the guy, you know, so then on top of that, if you turn pro,

and then your first year as a 19 year old, your third in the world, I mean, that's kind of, you know, says something about your qualities. So he's going to the, he's going to the Giro to be the leader. And if I'm not mistaken, I think Adam Yates is also going to the Giro. So maybe, maybe I'm shoveling dirt on these guys too, too early. He is going to the Giro. He is going to the Giro of Adam Yates. Do you think a full strength? I don't know.

Maybe I'm overestimating Aiso, but I feel like it's his time and Roglic and Yates could be not as good as they were in the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for listen, that's for sure. For sure. Uh, Rob Lichtenhard and the eights are obviously at, you know, in the, you know, the downward curve of their career. Uh, but still, still strong, uh, still capable of, of being in front in grand tours and, um, yeah, Probably better at dealing with the chaos of the Giro that will inevitably

arise. Yeah. Yeah. Let's say, I used to win the Giro. What's his future in UIE? Like I just can't imagine he's going to be happy contesting the Giro in the Vuelta. I think he needs to leave UAE. It's not going to be easy because he's like, you know, the adopted son of Machin. He has a long term contract, a big contract and an extremely

high buyout clause. So not easy, not easy. But you know, I think a guy like a you so with his ambition and his personality, um, needs to be on another team. That Pugacar. Maybe Pugacar is the one that gets the boot. They send them back. This happened. If I were you, I would never let that happen. In the NBA recently, it wasn't quite like that, but it was not far off that a team kicked out a generationally good player and people are losing their minds over it. But it did

make me wonder, I'm like, could UAE get rid of Pogacar? Is that actually possible? But before we take off, Yoan, a few things I want to ask you about. Total energies is like a news item that came up recently. Total energies and Anna Enos are apparently merging for 2026. Or I don't know. It's yeah, I've seen that also. It's like, you know, there's this rumor that the total energies, the company would be the co-sponsor of emails emails has already said that they're looking for a second sponsor.

Obviously, if you get Total Energies, it's a huge company. They're also looking for a second sponsor too. So it's two teams that need a new sponsor. Yeah. Well, I don't think it would be a merge. Probably be like Total Energies goes to be the sponsor of Team NAOS and probably takes a few, I mean, they can sponsor both teams that's, you know, at least not as a, as a title or naming sponsor. Maybe that's there's, there's a way around it because obviously Total Energies, they

have a lot of subsidiary companies. So maybe they keep the French team alive with a subsidiary and like a pure French brand and then Total Energies becomes the co-sponsor of Ineos, which is more international. I've heard this rumor already a few months ago from somebody within Ineos. But I'm still having a hard time to see it happen. French companies sponsoring and British team. I don't know, maybe there's other interests, you know, like, okay, we all know that Radcliffe emails there are in petro chemicals, right? That's's obviously also, uh, there could be

a link there, uh, like business wise, which goes beyond the interest of cycling. I don't know. I don't know. Um, we'll see. Let's say it happened. Is that, how does that work with the contracts? Is it basically just total the team is dissolving, they go sponsor NAOS. And then if they want Anthony turgis, they would have to recruit him separate from his contract. He has, that's the difficulty. I mean, that's why I say a merger is not going to be possible.

A merger. I don't, I don't see it happen. Now, what also could be the case is that, I mean, which is a scenario that I could envision is that Radcliffe basically, you know, midterm, like not short term, but like in a few years or, you know, that this could be the first move. I think I said this in another podcast already, that this could be the first move towards selling his team is that total energies becomes a co-sponsor.

They kind of find a solution to keep for the moment, the French pro team alive with another company of them. And then gradually get into, you know, being the only sponsor of Orvin Aos. That could be something. It's kind of like the Ralph Dank move where he's, I think he sold 51% of Bora, the team. So he's like found someone to come on, sponsor the team, buy him out. I, yeah. And I guess what I don't fully understand is in that, I mean, total is kind of stuck in no man's

land because there are second division team. Maybe they would get a wild card at the tour, but they're not going to finish. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no What do you think that's imperiled with the rise of like, essentially we have too many teams right now because we have so many good second division teams like Q 36.5 Tudor, Uno X, soon to be Astana. If not Astana, then Kofidus. What happens if Kofidus falls out of the world tour, then Total is really, Arkea then Total is really squeezed and they almost need to get smaller and be like just for up and coming French writers and then have NAOs and you could Arkea then told I was really squeezed and they almost need to get smaller and be like just for up and coming French riders and then have NAOs and you could send the talented riders up

there. Yeah. Well, you bring up a good point Spencer, because that's also something I would like to talk about is that I'm sure you've seen it that there's this debate now whether made now whether at the request of ASO and RCS, the Giro, there is a request to add an extra wild card. So that instead of 22 teams, it would be 23 teams. And the UCI has put out a statement saying that on the 26th of March, the Pro Cycling Council, which is something that they have there within the UCI, it's the UCI, but they just name it something else. So it looks like it's somebody else who's decided, right? The Pro Cycling Council is going to vote on whether a 2013 is allowed or not. So this has come up. So in a few weeks, and I actually, I, I put out a tweet, I would like to

read it. About this says that UCI cycling and David LaBartier will decide on March 26, on an extra wild card for the tree ground tours, they state that it's the procling Council who will vote and decide on this request from the three ground tours. The Pro Cycling Council is nothing more than a charade to make it seem more formal. Most of the big world tour teams are against this idea of a 2013. But I have news for everyone. The Procycling Council will not decide on March 26th, because it's already decided. If ASO made this request,

La Partian has already granted them this request. He will camouflage this grant with the Pro Cycling Council so-called vote. What ASO wants is what ASO gets. As simple as that. The UCR rules clearly state that there's a maximum of 22 teams in the three ground tours. But with the current president, this doesn't matter. He gladly modifies the rules in the interest of the biggest power in cycling ASO. I said, isn't that so Mr. LaPortierre? And then I said, also, I will repost this on March 26th with the mention. I told you so. Calling your shot. I mean, you're, what'd you say? You're exactly right.

If they've made the request, it's already been approved. Yeah. So this is the way it works. The way it's structured, the way the UCI is structured. I mean, in this case, I'm saying the UCI because I know how mechanically it works. There's all these different names, you know, the pro cycling council, the UCI management commission or stuff like that, you know, but it's, it's pure formal, you know, all these meetings that happen and they vote, the votes are, the votes are decided already. You know, I've been part of some of these meetings and it was frustrating to see that, you know, it was all decided already on beforehand. It doesn't matter. They just

bring other people to the table to make it seem like you have a say. But the UCI is always a majority. If there's a certain commission where there's 10 members, and they're going to say, okay, one represented for the teams, one for the writers, one for the organizers, one for this, but there's always going to be six of the UCI. Always. So you can never win. But they do this to make it seem like they listen and they take into account the votes of other stakeholders. So this is, this is what's going to happen anyway. So anyway, La Partia is busy now with his, with his IOC. Yeah. Yeah. I don't buy that. That's not happening. Well, you know, look, fun, fun fact, somebody, I won't name him. But somebody with history in

the UCI sent me this. There's, I mean, it's not, I mean, it's, it's a poll, a poll. I mean, we all know that La Partia is running for IOC president. He's already the president of the UCI is also the president of the French Olympic Commission is the mayor of his village. He's the president of his region, whatever I mean, he has like, I think eight or nine official positions. And so there's a survey, there's this this website's called inside the games. Have you ever heard of it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so inside the games recently conducted a poll to gather the opinions of the followers on the

candidates of the IOC presidency. This is obviously obviously not relevant to the votes because the votes of IOC presidents, it's 100 IOC members who vote. It's anonymous. So there's a lot of lobbying, you know, corruption, you know, people have interests. But anyways, the final results of the popularity of all the, of all the candidates is Sebastian Coe, 47%. Who's like an Olympic legend. He should be, there's no question this guy should be the IOC president. Then there's Juan Antonio Samaranch, who is the son of former president Samaranch.

15.5%. Then Kirsty Coventry, 15.2%. Then Prince Faisal Al-H Hussein, 7.8%, Mori Nari Watanabe, 7%, Johan Eilash, 4%. And last but not least, David Lappartian, 3.5%. I'm going to say he has no chance depending on this fall, right? no chance, depending on this vote on this poll, right? I mean, he's, he's strong at lobbying, but but at the same time, I think this this entrance for him, in UCI presidency, he already knows he's not gonna win. But he's there. And he's gonna stay there until, you know, the next the next election, he's gonna be there again. And ultimately, he means still he's only 50. So all these guys are, you know, in their 60s, some even 70. So he's going to be there again. And ultimately, he still, he's only 50. So all these guys are, you know, in their sixties, uh,

some even 70. So, uh, he's gonna, he's gonna go, he's gonna keep going for it. But for the moment, unfortunately, we will still have to deal with him for the next four to eight years in cycling. Unfortunately. So if I was a team, if a, if I was a world tour team who was paying a ton of money to stay in the world tour, or if I was Israel and Lotto, Israel premier tech and Lotto, and I like worked my butt off to get automatic invites to these grand tours so I could go to the tour of France, how annoyed would you be that they've just out of thin air added

a wild card slot? Like that is, that would be infuriating. But here's my question to you, Johan, is this actually like better for the sport because there are so many good second division teams. Is it better to get more good teams at the tour? No, I mean, no, it's not better. I mean, obviously it's great for those teams, but it's short-term vision, but it needs to remain select. You know, the problem that the Tour de France has is that they have these French teams that they have to invite Total. And that's their problem, because they have Tudor. I'm curious to see Spencer, I'm not sure, but I'm curious to see Tudor as a company. I mean,

they're very, very aggressive, you know, like if you, I mean, I think if you've seen, you know, who's the official timekeeper of certain races, they're everywhere, you know, next step is going to be, they're going to be sponsoring the tour as a, is it Tissot still now? I don't remember if it's the so it's going to be Tudor in the future. If probably, if there's still a contract with Tissot this year, it's going to be Tudor in the future. If probably if there's still a contract with Tissot this year, it's going to be Tudor in the future. So they can't say no to Tudor because on top of that, they have Alaphilippe, who's the darling in France. And so they have

a problem. They have a problem. You know, they, you know, X, they should take you know, X because it's a great team and they've been in it already. And I mean, normally it should be, it should be, uh, do door, I think. And, and total. So they have a problem. They have a problem with, uh, with, you know, X and then Q 36.5. I don't, I don't know if you just support five since, since pitcock is probably not going to erase the tour, then it's probably not that interesting for the tour to invite them this year.

Right. And they're the weakest of all those teams, like from a full roster perspective. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, you're right. The French, the French de facto auto invite screws everything up because UNOX should be at the Tudor fronts. That's an amazing team who works their butt off and races in an exciting way. Tudor should probably be there. And then yeah, they have to invite Tudor and then eventually Q36.5 will be good. I would, I would guess. So then they should be there too, probably. And then

whatever. I mean, it actually get big problems. If KofiDisc gets relegated, they have even bigger problems because... Yeah. Well, they're starting to wanting to create a precedent, right? I mean, if the 2013 is accepted this year, it's going to be accepted next year if one of those French teams gets out. You know, if coffee gets out or or okay, I mean, okay, we don't know if it's still going to exist next year, because the sponsorship is not going beyond 2025, I think. But they're already, you know, creating a precedent, you know, in case they're just changing the rules, you know, they can always change the rules in the interest of somebody who has

a lot of power. Yes. And I mean, we, we've got to get you out of here, but here's a question for you from me. I know Tadej Pagato's team is now worried about him crashing at Perry Roubaix. They probably should have been worried about him crashing at Perry Rubé before he crashed at Charter Bianchi. Is he, do you think he's going to do Perry Rubé? I don't know, Spencer. I really don't know. Uh, the team has stated that they would prefer him not to do it.

I think that's probably the right decision. I agree. But then again, I mean, you know, I don't know, man. I don't know. It's a dangerous race. The chances of crashes are very high. You know, it's not because he crashed in Strade Bianche. But you know, Patti Lupe is just, in his case, is just asking for problems. Right? Because there you get into, you get into sectors and nobody respects nobody is like a war to get in. He's a great bike rider. He's a great bike handler as a strong team, but still, it's dangerous.

I don't know. I would prefer he doesn't do a party. I would prefer that. Yeah, I mean, you saw that all of these great writers, full, full engine, uh, at the tour, you know, we're stepping in, you guys are done. You got to stop racing for the tour. And then it's just an interesting question that someone sent Matthew sent in that I was wondering about too. I'll, I'm going to shorten their question, but basically why is van Matthew Vanderpool not focused on the green Jersey at the tour? He seems right in that league with Wouten Sagan. It seems like now would be the time

for someone of his skillset to focus on it. He's already won everything else that would matter and the tour matters the most. I agree with that sentiment. Why? Yeah. Why does he have no interest in the green Jersey? It just other. He's interested in other things during the summer. I think a green Jersey and material, material of the pool's career means nothing. It means nothing. It's a little dismissive to everyone who works their butt off to win a green jersey. I know, I know. But listen, if you're, if you're, if you're, I don't know how many times he's world champion now like in different like more than 10 times already in different different disciplines. So now plus plus you know, I mean, if he almost can't he almost

can't go for the green jersey because if he does the tour, there's Phillipson he needs he does lead out for Phillipson you know, aspirin for himself. That's a bunch of points, you know? So, so, no, I don't think it will ever be a focus for him. That's a great point. It doesn't really fit with the team's goals, I guess. And then he's clearly figured something out where he can be amazing when he needs to be amazing at these big races. And then almost uses the tour as like a training camp or something.

He's clearly not at his best, but then he just ramps it back up after the tour. So maybe he doesn't want to mess with that formula. Isn't he going for the mountain bike world championships this year? Yes, he is. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So he said, he said, he said that he finds the tour boring. How many riders get away with he's there without any specific ambitions, you know? So, I mean, you could see it also in his demeanor, you know, like whenever it's not a stage for him, he's like, okay, it doesn't really matter. Doesn't care. It's there. You know, then he

goes to the back to the front and the final of the stage to do the lead out for Phillipson. That's it, you know, job done. I was watching them at the final time trial of last year's tour and it looked like you would, it would look like someone that was on a training ride. You know, he's just like cruising around on his road bike. It's like, this guy is not taking it seriously, but yeah, I guess it's the curse of being so good at everything. It's probably does seem boring to him. Um, maybe he'll change that his mind in the future, but yeah, he doesn't seem to have the tour bug at all. No, you want to do anything else to add before we take off?

That's it for me, Spencer. All right. Well, thank you so much. And we'll be back with the move episode on Monday. Let's talk about Perry Rubay, not Perry Rubay, Perry Neese and Torino Adriatica. Okay. Talk to you later.