THEMOVE - Breaking Down a Truly Dominant Ride | 2024 World Championship Road Race | THEMOVE

Episode Date: September 29, 2024

Lance and Johan break down how Tadej Pogačar won the 2024 road race World Championships with a historically dominant ride that saw him take a highly elusive triple crown (Giro, Tour & Worlds). They discuss how the race played out, why the others failed to stop Pogačar’s ultra long-range move and a few standout performances in the chased group behind.  Zwift: This adjustability makes Zwift Ride perfect for anyone in the house to use and at $1,299.99 it’s a game-changer so head to https://Zwift.com now to check it out. And join WEDU for our rides on Zwift which start back this week. WEDU Wednesday is our casual, no drop ride and SUFFER Sunday for those wanting to push the limits. OneSkin: OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co  Ketone-IQ: 30% off your first sub order + free 6 pack when you use the link: https://www.ketone.com/themove Ventum: Listeners of THEMOVE can save 20% on any Ventum bike thru September by using code TheMove20 at checkout at https://ventumracing.com  

24 wins in one season, Lance, and the season's not over yet. You know, this is one rider wins more than the vast majority of the teams. Well, look, look, I mean, just hearing you list those off, I was getting tired. Honestly, that didn't become, obviously those races are hard. The season is long and intense. You get physically mentally it's it's really hard i i had not even thought of lombardia and you're right i mean should we just give it to him right now all right everybody welcome back to the Move podcast, talking about the 2024 World Championships in Zurich, Switzerland. 275 kilometers.

Now, if this show, as we get going here, just real quick, if it seems like maybe a show you've heard before or a repeat, it's because you kind of have. All right, we're just going to talk about the dominance of Tadej Pogacar. I am joined by Johan Brunel. We are down here actually in the South of France. We've been riding with some buddies the last few days. Just been absolutely amazing.

This is where I spent most of my career training, certainly in my lead up to the tours. And it's just, it's fun to be back, fun to be back on, on roads that I really haven't ridden seriously for a long time. So Johan, thanks for being here. And by the way, by the way, Johan on the bike, if you follow those socials, Johan, fuck man, when was the last time that you and me rode together? Probably what? 98 i was i was gonna i was gonna say decades not 98 98 the year and i i was you know and folks i was you know instead i'm gonna bring

my bike i was like i don't know how that's gonna work out you know i've been done i've been training and feeling good and i I'll tell you what, the old boy still has it. Pedals the same pedals, this pedaling style is the same that I remember from two decades ago. And yeah. And then when it came to the downhill, it was of course very tricky and technical downhills here. Right on the wheel. Very impressive.

It's fun. It's fun. I'm enjoying it a lot. So we do this more often, Lance. Okay. No problem. Today's show brought to you by Zwift. So Zwift just released the Zwift Ride, an all-new smart bike that is changing the indoor game

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the move at one skin.co. That's one skin.co for 15% off. Use the code, the move. All right, you know, look, I mean, we've said this, I mean, that a poker jar is a generational talent. And I don't even, frankly, I don't know how long a generation is. It's not 10 years. It doesn't feel like it's 20.

But this kid is, to me, a generational. You've got to go way back in cycling to see somebody. Look, he's already in this pantheon of greatest of all time. He really is. I mean, he's just angry. And the level, I think the thing to me, obviously, physically, the kid is so superior. The level of confidence. I mean, it's like they threw him in the juniors race.

Even in my heyday, if you put me in the U23 race, I wouldn't have gone off the front with 100 kilometers to go. That is supremely confident. Yeah. Well, I think what really says it all, Lance, I quickly read some post-race interviews of the other two favorites, Remco and Mathieu van der Poel, and they both say the same. They're in awe. They can't believe it.

Even if Poel thought it was suicide, they can't believe what they saw. And they've raced with him all year. They get along well. they train together sometimes i think what bogacar did today is something that we have i mean it's it's i think it's the most deserved world champion from the history of modern cycling i would say um but it's so unique to see a rider that can win all these different races you know i mean because this is not you know they often say they often say, okay, we have Pogacar, we have Fingerguard, right? And lots of people put them on the same level. Well, that's not true. You know, they are on the same level.

Fingerguard, there's no way Jonas Fingerguard can do what Pogacar did today in a one-day race. And so, you know, he already beat the biggest specialists in Tour of Flanders, Ivan Arten, Van der Poel, on the cobbles. What's left? There's only one thing that's left. This is Paris-Roubaix. He can win that too. But I think especially what speaks to the incredible performance

is that he came in as the big favorite, the only favorite. Yesterday on the outcome show with Spencer, uh, he was minus one 50, uh, for a one day race. That's, that's unheard of to have such a big favorite. Everybody, there was nobody who thought that somebody else could win and he does it. And the way he did it, um, I think it's, it's extraordinary. So, um, you know, we watched it together. The race, it was a bit boring, we have to say. We do. So if there is one criticism we have.

Well, you know, I mean, at some point they came back a bit. You know, you could say, well, maybe he hasn't managed his feeding properly, his fueling properly. But if you look at it, you know, he goes with 100K to go, bridges to the big group that was ahead, then goes straight away. Sivakov was there for the French team, but actually a teammate of UAE. So I wonder what's going to be the story there, because Zivakov definitely didn't ride for France.

He rode for Pogacar. I mean, and listen, I completely understand that. But then he goes solo with 75 kilometers to go, and he gets between 45 and 55 seconds. He hasn't had more than that. And he manages that difference during the last two hours of the race which is incredible yeah yeah well it's and the other thing worth noting is and you really it's been a long time since people have

have talked about um the triple crown in cycling mean, obviously, we were talking about it in the lead up to this world championships because I thought I had the opportunity to do that. But it's been a... Steven Roach did it in 1987. And it really kind of died and went away. Ender Ryan had a shot to do it in 1993. Got second to some other guy at the world championships. But it's not, it's not, it's not something that,

that you just hear much about. However, it's still history. And there had only been two people to ever do that. That's Eddie Merckx and Steven Roach. By the way, too, different era and obviously a different cycling, but as you will know, Johan, the World Championships were much sooner. Not much

sooner, but several weeks sooner, so you could still kind of come out of the Tour. The big juggle would be how do you get from the Giro I mean, the, the big, uh, uh, sort of the big juggle would be, how do you get from the Giro to the tour and maintain the form? And once you get out of the tour, you have this form and you roll into the world championships now being towards

the tail end of September, except triple ground. It's a long time. So, uh, I was, uh, uh, uh, interested to, to see, I was just, before we hopped on, I was just checking the news and this is on the cover of cnn.com, right? So I'm not there looking at just stuff that I read. It's on the front page of cnn.com. Tati Pogacar does something in cycling that hasn't been, you know, one of the rarest feats in cycling truly makes history. Only three riders.

So I'm with you. I mean, it's, he's special. So special. And the other, and I think it also has some impact on what you said about Civic Golf. This is a reminder, just like the Olympic Games, this World Championships had no radio communication so there was this you know i i'm not a fan of that but nonetheless that's what the the governing body has decided to do um civic golf would not have

been getting any sort of feedback from the team car No instructions. Yeah. No, it's like, I mean, you can imagine, I think Vuckler is the, is the sport director for the French team. Can you imagine a world where it's, excuse me, you know, five years ago you were Russian. Now you're French. What are you doing?

Right. He's not getting any of that. Right. So he's up there. And what also makes, I think, the World Championships unique is the riders wear the jersey of their country, but they wear some version of their team shorts. So you can see who they're aligned with commercially for, you know,

for really, I guess it's really three, this year, it was 363 other days of the year outside of today and the Olympic games. You see that, um, sort of that loyalty that has to, I mean, that's who pays the bills. Um, but he wasn't getting that feedback. Pogotar wasn't getting that feedback. You send a move 70, 80, 90 kilometers from the finish. You try to get your nutrition, right? You're not necessarily getting good updates.

He did call the team car at some point. Then they pulled the car. You even noted as we were watching, because he was starting to lose time. You imagine even a rider of his stature, right? One of the greatest of all time going, huh? I'm starting to feel this. They pulled the team car, which means it's under a minute. Are they catching me?

Like, I don't care who you are. You start to get a little nervous. No, I mean, with that effort, 100K to go bridge up and then 75K to go by yourself. I mean, the danger of getting hit by the hammer is behind every corner in the last 20 kilometers, I think. So,

I mean, he did manage that very well. But, you know, I mean, I remember when we started

the season, Lance, we did a show on Estrada Bianca. It was his first face back this season. And we said,

you know, he won that with an attack with 70-something kilometers to go. It was a complete rerun. And we said, you know, he won that with an attack with 70-something kilometers to go. It was a complete rerun. And we said, you know, he looks different. He's leaner.

He's definitely on a higher, on a different level. And he's been showing that all season. I mean, if you look through his results, you know, okay, we can talk about the Triple Crown and only Eddie Merckx and Steven Roche have done it. But, you know, he wins Stradivari-Junker. He wins straight

after he wins the Tour of Catalunya, which is the World Tour race with, I think, three stages. Then he goes to Bastogne-Liesch, wins that with a solo. Then he goes to the Giro. He wins six stages and the overall, plus whatever other classification there is. Then

from the Giro to the Tour, wins six stages and the overall. Takes some time off, comes back into the racing, goes to Canada, wins the second race in Montreal, and now is world champion in Zurich. And bad

news for everybody, guys. Tour of Lombardy, guess who's going to win there? The world champion. So, you know, I mean, this 24 years, 24 wins in one season, Lance, and the season's not over yet. You know, this is one rider wins more than the vast

majority of the teams during the season. Well, look, look, I mean, just hearing you list those off, I was getting tired. Honestly, that didn't become, obviously those races are hard.

The season is long and intense. You get physically tired. Mentally, it's really hard. I had not even thought of Lombardia. And you're right. I mean, should we just give it to him right now? But boy, it will take a toll. Or maybe not.

I mean, I guess every year he does something. What's remarkable, Hans, is that, you know, you have this young rider who at a very young age won two times the Tour de France. And to think that when he won those tours, that was not his best level. He's been beaten two times by Jonas. And to think that when he won those tours, that was not his best level. He's been beaten two times by Jonas and he's been upping his game.

And, you know, I mean, when he was 21 and 22, he won the tour two times. And this was not like the best Pogacar. This is, I think, stands for, you know, the quality of this rider. And as we said, you know, he's, what is it? 26 now? I got, yeah, he just turned 26. He's still improving. He's, this is not as limit. Um, so, um, but anyway, you know, we've seen the Pugacar show. I think we should also talk a little bit about the others. Uh, yeah. What happens? We definitely should, but, um, um two two quick things one um i know

we have a lot of peter or tia fans who listen to the show uh dr peter just had him on his podcast called the drive um uh t is so funny he's he loves cycling and if y'all listen to the show you picked this up i did this show a while back. But he flew up to Montreal and interviewed Tade for his podcast. People loved it. Our good buddy, Marcelo, who we're here with, listened to it the other day and just thought it was so fascinating. So just a shout out to Peter.

Give that a listen. I know, like I said, people dug it. And then we should. Yes, you're exactly right. By the way, there were other people in the bike race today. And you have a champion. But we're going to. But I want to before we get into that, I just got to do a little business.

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That's ketone.com slash the move. Also today, we're brought to you by Ventum. Now, this is a brand that's completely kicking ass. Yoh, been a couple of decades since we rode together. We were both, you're on the Ventum. You brought your GS1 over here. I flew over here with my GS1. Our good buddy, Dean Hill, on this trip on his GS1. That's our gravel bikes. Now, that just shows you how sick this gravel bike is. We're on some of the most beautiful roads that you can imagine riding a bike. We're out here on the GS1 thing feels like an absolute rocket ship, totally stable and smooth. They got some special deals. They've got, uh, the new GS1, it's got SRAM Apex, AXS. It's got the, uh, minted colorway,

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other new colors too. Flint and Escalante. I'm about to talk to Dio. Flint and Escalante. I'm going to have to talk to Dio. Like what is Escalante? Was that, isn't that like a Cadillac? That's Escalate. Oh, oh shit. Okay. Anyways, nonetheless, that just launched August 1st. The Vinsom Escalante, not the Cadillac Escalate.

I don't know what I'm thinking um anyhow listeners of the move get 20 off any ventum bike through september by using the code the move 20 at checkout head on over to ventum racing.com listeners the move they're 20 off use the code the move 20 all right let's talk about the rest of the bike race because by the way uh because we were watching uh somebody slipped up on the camera work ben o'connor second play what a season second place this i i you know i watched that netflix thing and I talked about this earlier a few months ago. I was like, ah, you know, that one episode that was, but he's writing his own story, leaving the team.

He's what a, but they missed it. The TV folks, the production crew, because we were sort of going, all right, well, it looks like this is a race for second. Surely Vanderpool's got second and they flashed to the finish and that straight on shot. And all of a sudden Ben O'Connor's all by himself. Nobody near him. So first of all, hell of a season for him. Yeah. Great season comes off, you know, with really good form from the Vuelta super confident and uh you know I think Ben O'Connor

rode the the typical championships rider world championship you know we hardly saw him he was always there you know just hanging there didn't make any big efforts and at the end uh he could get away uh obviously I think everybody was watching uh Mathieu and Remco in that group. And there's always one who slips away. But hey, I think well-deserved. And then third place for Mathieu van der Poel. Also, I think well-deserved. He was probably the strongest guy in that group. Remco was cooked at the end.

He did a lot of work, did a lot of attacks and stuff, but I think Evenepoel was good, but didn't have a super day today. And then I can't help but see that the Belgian team was nowhere where they should have been. I mean, Belgian fans are not going to like what I say,

but this was not a collective performance, which was worthy for the quality of team they had um it was only ramco in the final um we had one rider laurent de plus who was in the early break other than that i haven't seen anything and i've read also that the the national coach is uh is not very impressed with the performance. I was also, obviously we all as Belgians, we all got spoiled in the last championships, you know, world, world titles to Olympic titles, uh,

world title of Roto-Kopecky also in the women's race, by the way. Um, so, so yeah, I mean, I was not impressed with the Belgian team, but, um, I mean, what, uh, you know, know, a lot of people said, you know, it's for climbers, 4,500 meters of elevation. It was for all-rounders. Lots of guys in there, like, you know, really strong riders. But the fact that van der Poel is on the podium, I mean, he's not a climber. We all know that.

And then who else is up there? Well, he, she was up there. And then, you know, what a performance. That's one of the riders that I said, wow, you know, early break, he was out there with, was it Ben Healy? Him and Ben Healy? And I was going to say this Ben Healy, I've mentioned this before, hard to watch on a bike. Cause he's, he's kind of all over the place, uh, form wise. Boy, you, I love his spirit.

You put the numbers on his back and he just tries like I said, and, and even if he's in a break and that break gets caught, he tries again. I mean, it just, you gotta love him. I mean, what a, what a, what a fighter. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I think, Oh, I mean, hats off for Tom's Queens because you know, he was, he was up there with the favorites with Walt Van Aert and Matty van der Poel in the cobbled classics in the spring. If I'm not mistaken, if I'm not mistaken, I think he was 15, the Olympic games,

the Olympic road race, and now he was fifth in the Olympic games, the Olympic road race, and now he's fourth in the world championships. Really, really top, top performance of him. And then finally Remco got fifth. I think, I mean, I think that's obviously he has to be happy with that based on, you know, how tired he was at the end of the, of the race. He was never even, he was never really a factor. Both Belgium and the Netherlands, they've been always on the defense once Pogacar went. I can't help but think that if

both Van der Poel and Remco would have had super legs, they should have been with Pogacar. It's not like Pogacar can surprise the whole peloton. Everybody knows. Everybody knows. If you remember back to Stradivianchi, it's not like Pogacar can surprise the whole peloton right everybody knows everybody knows I mean well I mean if you remember back to Stradivianchi

he just told everybody the day before the guy said this is where I'm going to attack just FYI I mean that's I do have a question though about if you separate because I do think Remco and Vanderpool you know they probably went into a

one you know figuring or thinking that they had a chance to win i don't think outside of those two guys i don't think anybody else thought i mean there's look it's bike racing so 200 guys on the road 275 kilometers anything can happen crashes mechanicals um yeah so but but outside of rimco and vanderpool i mean you have to think that there were a lot of those guys going hey man this is a big damn deal to get on the podium of the world championships i'm to let him do his thing. If he wants to go with 200 kilometers to go,

I'm in this race to get on the podium. You just have to imagine that there were plenty of... And we're not talking about Pacville. We're talking about big-time riders. Actually, Dr. Poole said before the race, before the race, I don't know if it was in a press conference or something. He said, based on this season,

Pogacar would be the most deserving world champion. Yeah. Oh, well, right. But, but I do think, however, I mean, those two guys are winners. You know, I think they, they thought they had a chance. They just, at the moment he went, I think it was too risky. And they knew that if they would go with him, they would probably not have a chance for a medal because they would blow up from so far,

so far away. Yeah. Well, that, that is my question. Right. I mean, it, it, I don't know. I, I, I think you have to try to go with him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. If you want to win, I mean, listen, if Pogacar goes, he's not going to wait, he's not going to come back. This is not the thing is I think if you're so strong, Lance as Pogacar and you see that more and more, or even with Remco, you know, they want to avoid to be caught up into a tactical game. Right. And that's why they go so far.

And then basically if you go from far, then you have a selection behind and there's nobody else of those rivals with teammates. And you basically force the situation towards what you want it to be. So, but still, and I mean, 75 K to go by yourself attack with a hundred K to go.

It's like, wow, what is this? So, I mean, what else can we say? You know, well, I can tell you what else we can say is two things that I just based on and meant to say at the top of the show. Both of them, forgive me, just involve a little bit of tragedy. George was supposed to say at the top of the show, both of them, forgive me, just to involve a little bit of tragedy. George was supposed to be on the show. He is without power in Greenville, South Carolina. So obviously Hurricane Helene ran through the Southeast and just wreaked havoc.

So our thoughts and prayers go out to everybody out there. That's lives have been massively affected. And George, George just couldn't, I didn't think he could watch the race. Actually. He was trying to shoot us a text and it was spotty even at that, but he didn't have, he's got no power, no wifi. So he missed out. But also, and for those cycling fans out there, I mean, this, it doesn't get any worse, right? We know this game is dangerous. Yeah. Crashes happen. Um, it is not, I shouldn't say it's not an ant cause it, you know, we lost, um, uh, made her last year in the tour of Switzerland,

but unfortunately, uh, Muriel, sure. Young girl from Switzerland as well, 18 years old dies in the road race uh not to bring it down but um certainly thinking about her family and loved ones and the entire sport i mean these things you have an 18 year old girl in the junior women's road race i mean toddy poguchar's thinking about that that you just yet again reminded like wow um and Um, and we have, we had a buddy of ours had a pretty big crash on the ride today, shattered his bike, uh, shattered his helmet, had to go get stitches. This is a dangerous game folks. Um, and so, uh, again, our thoughts and prayers go out, uh, to her family,

her teammates and everybody in the sport. So I did mean to say that at the top of the show, I got overwhelmed, but terrible. Terrible, terrible. Yeah, it's yeah, I mean, it shows you how

fragile we all are, you know. As you said, Lance, we saw it today with one of our friends, but, you know, in the race. I mean, what a tragedy, you know, this 18-year-old girl chasing her dreams. Probably, you know, the pride of the family in Switzerland, in her own country. You get selected for the championships in your own country, and then that happens. It's just, there's no work. Yeah. Family had to be there. I'm sure.

Switzerland is a very small country. And it's a beautiful country for those who were able to, Zurich is an amazing place. I mean, it's, I always, I always loved the Grand Prix of Zurich. I'll never forget it. when I turned pro after the Olympics in 92, raced my first World Cup in San Sebastian, got last place in San Sebastian. I thought, man, this might be a bad idea. And a week or two later, I think it was two weeks later,

we had the Grand Prix of Zurich. I got second. There's another World Cup. Our old friend Dekimov won. And I thought, well, I think I'll stick around. But it's gorgeous. The roads are beautiful, which makes her crash even all the more complicated. Because sometimes pavements are, you know, the traffic, all of these things add up and, and,

but absolutely great for riding and very difficult. And those roads in and around Zurich, you saw them in the races. I mean, sections of 17%, uh, country showed. Well, I thought today, today was amazing. Uh, the other, the other, I mean, the, both the junior men under 23 and women's juniors, the weather was not good at all. And the women's race yesterday won, by the way, for a second time in a row by Lotto Copecchi.

So as Belgians, we can be proud of that. But yeah, I mean, I thought the same thing, you know, Zurich before was, was, was one of the hardest classics in September also, I think it was in September, right? Or was it the end of August? But very similar, very similar. So, so yeah, I mean, I think the conclusion lines is that the most, the guy who deserved it the most won the race in a fashion that it's not going to be early to be forgotten. You know, we will remember this day for a long time. Yeah, no, this is, you know, the Pogacar's 2024 season will go down in the history books.

And he's young. I don't know what he plans on in 2025, but. Well, you know, it's up to your popcorn. You might see more of it. People say you can't compare different eras and you should be shouldn't, you know. But lots of people have called them already. You know, they've started to call them the cannibal based on, you know, what they call Eddie Merckx for winning it all.

It's very difficult to compare and we shouldn't, but let me tell you something. I mean, I, as you know, and as a lot of listeners of us know, I've interviewed both Eddie Merckx and Bernard Hinault, which, in my opinion, were the two cannibals of the history of cycling by the strongest riders. And everybody who has seen them race and raced with them will second that. Both of them, when I asked them the question, who's the rider, who is the closest to you, and who is, you know, who you like the most, both of them, without a millisecond of a doubt,

I would say that straightaway, Tadej Pogacar is my favorite rider. Yeah. So I think that's enough. Hey, special, another special shout out, because I know you got a kick. We were heading back from the ride to watch the race and you got a real kick out of Quinn Simmons on the start line the new look

that Quinn is rocking it's sort of for those who haven't seen it you can look it up but if you're a Metallica fan at all which yours truly certainly is it's sort of like a red headed a Metallica fan at all, which yours truly certainly is, it's sort of like a redheaded James Hetfield look for you,

for you, Johan, James Hetfield's the singer of Metallica. Now I got y'all curious. You can go look it up. But boy, that was, and it didn't just have, I mean, the look was, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a tough look, but he wrote great. Ninth place, ninth place in the, you know, up there with all the favorites for, you know, until the very final and he wrote a very strong race. I mean, it was really good to see him back at that.

I mean, it's been a while. I mean, he did some really good performances already in Tour of Luxembourg a week ago. So we could kind of think that he would be up there, but 275K, I mean, great performance of Quint Simmons today. Yep, yep, yep. All right. Any other thing? Did we miss anything else? yep yep yep all right any other thing

we missed anything else just to go let me just take a quick scan of the news just make sure

there's not yeah I always love it after these races you know you never know somebody

said something really stupid or funny I think I think in the first reaction is everybody's going to be

all the rivals are going to be in awe of what happened because if you see how they were fighting for that medal and how Van der Poel and Evenepoel and all these other guys, these top riders were

basically dragging themselves to the finish and then you have Ualcar out there and it's not, they have never seen him. You know, they have not, they have not seen him anymore. He was out of sight and they've not seen him anymore. So they said, well, they would probably say, Oh, this is, we can't believe this. Well, and, and we both remarked, I mean, he,

he got close to a minute and there was a moment with probably a lap and a half to go and start coming down right 30 37 38 39 seconds and you're thinking uh-oh hold all winning bets this we might have a bike race and we even and then of course he just accelerated in the last lap and again without radio communication without i mean perhaps some stuff on the side of the road or maybe he got a tip that it was coming out but then he pulled it back maybe it was just that's hard i mean once once once you start once it starts to go that way it typically continues to go that way and we looked at each go that way. And we looked at each other and we're like, wow,

I think you've just found another gear. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And the other, the other thing we, all these guys that are on the strip with us, they follow, I don't think they follow cycling that closely, but they ask a lot of questions about the sport and about the riders and about the training and the nutrition, uh, the physiques of the riders. And, you know, you've been up close and personal with a lot of these guys,

certainly more so than I have. These guys are so small and we just sort of reflect on when you raised, when I raised, I mean, I raised the tour de France at 73 kilos, you know, which is as light as I possibly could have been. And, and I thought it was just fascinating. You know, Johan said to the group the other night that said, look, that just, there's no way that guy, me could have won against this generation. It's just a different, these are different athletes. Well, right. But, but that's like I said, I mean, I can't, I mean, I guess in some world I could have got to 71 or 72,

it would have been horrible and very difficult to get it there, but that's still too heavy. So it's, it's just, it's a different game. And he's, and he's the best at the game right now. And As we said, which makes him, you know, the way he rides, one of the best of all time. If not, I don't know what you got to do. I guess you got to go win. You got to win more than two tours to be considered. That will be the story that unfolds over the next five years.

You've got to imagine that he can go win three more tours. You start to get up there, then people just start saying, I don't care about Merckx. I don't care about Hino. I don't care about Indra. This kid is the greatest of all time.

Yeah. I think you can't compare. You can't compare Harris. He's the greatest of all time. Yeah. I think you can't compare. You can't compare Harris. He's the greatest. But that's what people, that's what, anyways. Yeah. Yeah.

People always like to say that. Yeah, of course. Of course. It's like this thing, like my son, you know, he loves basketball and he,

he, he'll put his hand in fire. Defending LeBron James and LeBron James is so much better than Michael Jordan. I said, what the fuck? What are you talking about? I actually don't say it just like that because he's a 15 year old boy. I'm like, you're crazy. Michael Jordan was way better than LeBron James. And then it starts this whole argument, but it never fails. If this, if, if,

if there's another 50 year old or 60 year old in the room, they side with me. If there's another 15 or 20 or even 25 year old in the room, they side with my son. So you're right. I mean, it's, it's tough to say, I guess you just get, you all just get lumped into this bucket of goats. Exactly. Yeah. I think the goat is, you know, you're the goat of your generation. That's it. You know, because circumstances change, um, you know, what would happen if, for example, if Eddie Merckx would be born today and he's racing with his potential, he develops from a

young age with all the training techniques and the nutrition and all the science into a rider and has all the equipment and all the science behind it. You know what would happen? I would think he would still be the best because those guys are just

extraordinarily physically gifted people. Yeah, yeah. Well, hey. I can't believe we're going to have to, these kids, if I'm him, I'm not racing Lombardia. I don't care.

I'm on vacation, man. It's time to take a vacation. Just chill. AKA let somebody else win a hard bike race. Hard. Another hard, very important bike race.

Yeah. Super. You know, he loves the bike and he,. He loves to ride the bike. He has fun on the bike. What is there not to like about Pogacar? It's amazing how

he's young, he's smiling, he's funny, he has a lot of friends in the peloton and just loves to ride his bike. Everybody likes it. I should have tried that yeah you know hugging hugging people oh no no you're right that would have felt weird all right everybody thanks for for tuning in um we'll see y'all soon y'all on that's been fun. And also fun podcast, but also fun biking with you. Yeah.

Okay. Keep it up. Give it up, dude.