THEMOVE - Breaking Down Remco Evenepoel’s Blockbuster Transfer to RedBull-Bora-Hansgrohe | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down the implications of Remco Evenepoel's blockbuster transfer to RedBull-Bora-hansgrohe, both for his current Soudal-QuickStep squad and his future teammates at his incoming team, before breaking down the financials for each side. They also cover the other notable changes in the market, including Dylan Groenewegen's move to Unibet Tietema Rockets, why Ineos has paused all market moves, and how Uno-X's recent surge in results could see them secure a spot in the WorldTour for the 2026 season. Cook Unity: Crush your health goals with mouthwatering, chef-crafted meals delivered straight to your door. Go to https://cookunity.com/THEMOVE or enter code THEMOVE before checkout for 50% off your first week That’s 50% off your first week by using code THEMOVE or going to https://cookunity.com/THEMOVE Caldera Lab: Upgrade your routine with Caldera Lab and see the difference for yourself. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use THEMOVE at checkout for 20% off your first order Manukora: Go to https://MANUKORA.com/THEMOVE to save 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts

Let's just take the tour out of the equation, Spencer. I mean, no matter where Ramco is, as long as today and Jonas raised the tour, he's not going to win. So it's as simple as that. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Brunel. After a long, long sabbatical, we are back with our weekly show. Johan and I just got back from vacation.

We're going to run through a few major transfers, including including Remko Evanapole to Red Bull, the big one, and then a few smaller ones like Dylan Grunnevegan to Unibet Tetamah Rockets, what that means for the team. How Sudol Quick Step is going to rebuild and what the heck is going on with Ineos? But Johan, before we get started, where have you been? How was your vacation? Did you take some time after the tour?

It was short because I'm actually tomorrow leaving for the second part of my invitation to Belgium for a long period of time, almost three weeks. But yeah, we were in the area of Calpe, Benisa, Denia. I was actually in Pedregher, in the, you know, I wanted to check out that hotel where a lot of high-performance athletes are staying. It's called Synchrosferra, where we've seen Eramco, even a pool, and sometimes the majority of the team of Alpes in Mathieu van der Poole staying. They're very famous to have.

I would say probably half of the hotel is, they have altitude rooms. So basically, I mean, it's pretty impressive. It's owned by Alexander Kolopnev, who I met. And, you know, he gave me a tour, a tour at silver medalist, by the way, in the world's, no, in the world's, in the world's, a few times, a few medals in, in in worlds and olympics um but so yeah it's pretty impressive actually um i can understand now why certain teams go there um this is very nice and i also had the opportunity to ride my bike with uh with matthew white we you know uh he lives in the area so we rode for a week uh together which was very

nice our sons race uh again i mean against each other uh so they went training every day together and then the dad went on a coffee ride every day, which is nice. On the faster ride, the superior ride of the two, I'm sure. Well, it's not, we are not sponsored by that hotel, but I do want to check that hotel out. It looks amazing. It's very nice. I'm jealous you. Very nice.

Yeah. Well, to get back at it, Matt, we're back in the business. You also ran into, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Like, it's just weird to me to think these guys have lives outside of the tour. But like Vanderpoll and Philipson, I don't know what I. I thought they were doing, but then they're at the hotel training, and then now they're racing again, and then they kind of have to ramp up for their second, I guess their second goals after the tour. Yeah, Philipson, when I first got there, Philipson, I saw him at breakfast, so I talked to him

a little bit, and he was staying there for, I think one or two days only. Then he moved to another place, and he told me that he was starting again. So he's preparing for the Vuelta, since he He crashed out very early in the tour of France. He's going to do the Vuelta. But yeah, and then I saw that he just started in the tour of Denmark, which is, you know, I guess it's to get back into the rhythm. Then two or three days later, I mean, they were sitting there on the terrace and Matsuban the pool was there also.

They seem to come to the hotel to use the facilities to do short training sessions at altitude the hotel is i mean they have rooms but they also have a gym and the part of the gym is adapted so you can you can basically program the altitude that you want i think you can go up till three thousand five hundred meters um so that seems to be something that they're they're doing right now and i'm pretty sure it's it's common in i mean i didn't i didn't know that but it's pretty common in in modern cycling that's pretty interesting where i live i'm high I'm the opposite of that and like back in the day I had a coach that would like hook hook you up to like oxygen basically so you could do training at sea level while living high that's kind that's interesting to hear they're doing it the opposite way like because that goes against live high train low and like they're living low and then training at altitude I'd be curious the science behind that and like why exactly they're doing it but that's sweet the hotel you can just set whatever altitude you want that's that's quite nice yeah this I'm going to Belgium now tomorrow and there's actually i'm going to go check it out there's there's a new hotel in very close to where

i live actually um it's and it's actually i mean there's there's teams that have rented it out already for long periods of time it's the whole hotel also and they have even a cinema room at altitude uh so i mean i guess it's it's i guess it's a profitable business yeah i'm i'm ready i'm ready and willing to go if if they pay for us we'll do some live shows from there. It's a win-win. But Johan, to get back to business, the big news is, and I did the only thing on my vacation I felt like was passing me by was this Rimcoe of Nepal to Red Bull news. We knew that we knew it was going to happen during the tour. It's still like popped quite a bit. It was big news because, I mean, he has a year left on his deal with Sudolk quick step.

Presumably he's being bought out by Red Bull Borahonsgro to go over to be there, question mark tour to France leader, Spring Classics leader. Like, I guess, my questions for you are how do you think this went down why did sudal quickstep sell what type of money did this take and then what is red bull like what's what would define success for red bull with this transfer yeah well i think you mean it was no secret that ramco wanted to leave sudal right um and if i put myself in in in the position of sudal uh i would say okay you know let's try to get make this a profitable business you don't want to have a right who's there against his will or who's not happy, you know, he's not going to perform 100%.

It's also not good for the atmosphere of the whole team. I don't think you should ever keep a rider against his will because just because he has a contract, especially a rider of that kind of contract, right? Because it's a huge, I mean, it's a big chunk in the budget. Red Bull, I mean, obviously, if you look at all the riders that are right now at top you have pogachar who's not going anywhere you have jonas who's not going anywhere uh and then after those two it's you know you have a pool of riders and remco is one of those you know let's not he was okay he abandoned this year's tour but let's not forget you know he was third in the tour

last year he won the vuelta he's multiple world champion uh on the road time trial double olympic champion you know lest baston liege did he win it twice i i guess He won't let him live twice three times San Sebastian. I mean, he won a bunch of races. You know, there's not that many riders of that kind of caliber that are or could be on the market. Remko was not on the market, but he kind of was because he wanted to leave. So it all depends the amount of effort and the amount of money it had cost to Red Bull. I personally, I think it's not a bad move.

Definitely a good move for Remko, that's for sure, because. And, you know, he's, if he wants to go up a level, I think he needed to find a team where, I mean, not saying that he didn't have this at his disposal at Sudal, you know, because they, I think they accommodated 95% of the wishes of Remko. But I think the initiative came from Remko. He said, I want this, I want this, I want this. And then the team accommodated that for him out of the training, performance staff. Yeah, especially in wind tunnels, this and that. This is going to be different now for a manco. It's the team who's going to propose it to him.

He's not going to have to think about anything because at Red Bull, they do have the infrastructure and the manpower and the resources. Whereas I think, I think, I mean, it's just an assumption that at Sudal, all of these extras is a huge effort, especially budget-wise. so I think that's he's coming into an environment where people are going to think for him and they're going to propose things to him whereas he had to propose to the team in the past I think that's going to be the main the main uh change difference for for for remco now for for red bull um if you really want to uh I mean it's you know you have to look to the future also

So you need to keep strengthening your team. When you get a big champion on board, I mean, I want to insist, you know, we don't have to judge Remko now based on the abandon of the tour. Let's not forget everything he has done already. If you look at his palmaris, there's not that many riders riding in the peloton right now with that kind of pedigree. And if you bring a rider like that, it ups the game of the rest, you know, guys who are. the leaders, it's kind of a little wake-up call. I said, shit, you know, I need, I need, I need to, I need to be ready here because in healthy competition, healthy inside competition, right? And then, you know, they have, I mean, let's say the two big riders right now, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's

Roglidge and, and Lipowitz, because he just got third of the tour, but this is recent. So it still needs to be confirmed. And if you see that Roglich has at the end of this career, he's not going to raise that many more years. I think it's, it's kind of a transfer that makes sense for Red Bull. And for Sudol, quick step, they would let them go because they get paid, they get paid a buyout fee and they don't have to pay them next year. Is that the benefit? I mean, if you, if roughly, roughly, I mean, these are just estimates, right? So, first of all, I would assume that Remco's contract, you know, globally, I mean, with bonuses and everything in. included probably around four million. Four million. So that's four million you don't have to pay next year. And then a buyout, whatever it is, they've negotiated. So normally if you look at the Belgian legislation, you can leave as a Belgian employee from a Belgian company. You can leave if you pay your contract. It depends how it depends.

how big the basic contract is. I would assume bonuses are not part of that rule within the Belgian law. So I think the buyouts probably somewhere between two and three million, if I have to guess. So let's say it's a six or seven million euro bonus operation for Soudal, which is considerable. It's a big, it's a big co-sponsor. Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess in theory you rebuilt you rebuilt the team that maybe is not in a probably not trying to win the tour de france like maybe more one day ambitions yeah yeah plus plus there's riders on that team i mean i guess um if i'm not mistaken is it uh what's the italian guy's name uh he also abandoned in the tour after after crashing out catania matthano catano is going with him that's i think that's

the only rider I've seen so far, then a DS and a mechanic and a swineur. I think that's, you know, that's the package. And so it also opens new opportunities for riders at Sudok QuickStep when a big leader like that goes. And, you know, it looks to me like they want to rebuild towards their core identity of a classics team because they've signed Dylan Van Barle and Jasper Steven. for 2026. So that obviously is focusing more on the classics again.

Yeah, I mean, we can talk later about, like, can those guys really challenged with the big classics, but you have to imagine even, you know, you can imagine one of them winning Omloup and Kern or both. And is that successful for them? But let's talk about Red Bull for a second. So now Red Bull gets Remco, big deal, right? But I kind of like it from a one-day perspective.

Like now they have someone who could very, realistically podium liege, at least a one spring monument, I still think Rimco could be a good Flanders writer. Maybe I'm crazy with that, but like at least Amstel, liaise, the Ardennes, you now have a contender. For stage races, does this totally make sense? Like they got third at the tour this year. Are they realistically going to improve on that with Remko? I mean, let's just take the tour out of the equation, Spencer.

I mean, with no matter where Ramcoe, is. As long as today and Jonas raised the tour, he's not going to win. So it's as simple as that. I mean, okay, if today doesn't race and Jonas is the heavy favorite, then things could change

because it changes the whole dynamics of the race. But still, I mean, he's not ever been close to Jonas. I mean, yeah, last, I mean, last year, even last year, you know, when Jonas was not 100%, he's never been able to follow Jonas, I think.

on uphill finishes so um i think you need to leave the tour out of the equation and it's not just a tour there's other races and there's a lot of one day race one week races which remco is specialist you know but well okay okay that's what i thought too and then i went back and looked it up do you know how many top seven one week races he's won in his career um it's zero none yeah so none so yeah it's like he's a one week specialist but struggles to win one week races and actually is unclear to me why because he's a great time trialist that's usually the foundation for a one week win in so it's inconsistency I don't think we need to question that Spencer listen at somebody who has won the tour of

Spain and both and third in the tour can win any one week race I think I don't my question why why is it not happening yeah well you know let's see if it when if he's with red bull it can change you know i guess that that would be the bet red bulls making that we can rock up to parianese win perinise we can win dauphinet romandy bass country and we're cruising and we can't with the current i guess well i guess where so where does this leave rogwitch because he's a pretty good racer too pretty good one-week racer grand tour are they just on totally different timelines or i think they're going to be on different programs i mean they're they're both ambitious guys and And, you know, even Primos, you know, I don't know if next year is going to be his last year.

If he's still going to go on, we don't know. I think it's the last year of his contract, but, you know, maybe he wants to keep going. So we'll see. We'll see. There's plenty of room on the calendar for both of them or for him and Rogledge and Lipowitz. You know, in certain races, it's, you know, I, I don't think, I don't think Remko and Primos would probably race a lot together, but Lippewitz and Primos can race together or Lipovits and Remko can race together.

And then let's not forget, you know, they still have a guy like Jay Hindley, who's also a grand tour winner and ground tour podium in other tours of Italy, tour of Italy. So, you know, we'll see. we'll see but I think it's it's it's the right move in my opinion it's the right move I think for for Remko you know there were there were talks about you know him also going to in aeos I don't know how much specialized has played a role in his decision in his decision but I think it's a new start for him and it's it's the environment he needed I mean I think he had to stay with specialized I mean just like my son I dropped him at school this morning

and in the bike parking lot there was a specialized and he goes it's a remco's bike so it's like it's breaking through the kids are loving remco on specialized and lippowitz i guess my only concern is lippowitz and i will move on from this that my concern about signing one of the best riders in the sport i went through so his first two years if you count like as first year as the first year as a pro he did a stage race or a grand tour so 2024. So 2024, 2025, potentially one of the best starts to a GC career we've ever seen. Like seventh at the Vuelta, his first grand tour finish, third at the tour to France. I would say almost even more impressed than that is his one week racing. Like he breaks out third

at Romandie in 2024. Second at Perrin Nice in 2025. That's usually the year you kind of struggle to repeat your breakout season. Fourth at Basque Country, third at the dofine. Like that's pretty good consistency. The only thing I would hate to see is like he gets shuffled out of the tour team. No, no, no, no, no, no. There's no way. No, I mean, I don't think so. But, but I think for a guy like Lipowitz, it's probably also not bad to have somebody else there. You know, I mean, it's not like Red Bull. I mean, with with Lipowitz and even with Remko, if we're talking about the tour, other state races is different. If you talk about Giro and Vuelta, those guys would be. favorites, right? But if you're not the favorite, if you're not the favorite, and as long as today and Jonas keep doing the Tour de France, none of the other teams, including Red Bull, will be the favorite. So that also means that you don't have to have a team that is dedicated to one rider because you never have to carry the weight of the race at any point. So you can have two

leaders. That's not a problem. It's up to the leader. I mean, if you have two guys with each one and and then it's up to them to follow the best guys right whenever it's man against man so i don't i don't see it as a bad a bad thing on the contrary i think it takes pressure of lippowitz which which i think he needs because you know we know how german media is uh you know now lipovitz is the next john ulric i would say for the for the german media and that that's a heavy heavy weight to carry so to take the pressure of Florian Lippewitch, I think the arrival of Remko is an advantage. And at the same time, then Primos is chasing wins at the Giro and Vulta, presumably, you think?

I think so. I think that's what he should do. I think so, too. Yeah. Yeah. And that's probably also what he wants to do. I mean, he's already accepted the fact that, you know, there's nothing to do against those two guys. And whenever Primos is at the Giro and the Vuelta is, and he's healthy, he's difficult to beat.

or he was, I mean, let's not forget, you know, he's getting every year. He's getting a year older. Yeah, yeah. You do wonder, though, like, man, if he's healthy at that, at that Gero this year, he probably wins it, you know? There's still a lane. We will never know. We'll never know. That's the beauty of being a Primos fan.

You can say, well, he would have won. He would have won the tour this year. How did he not crash with the Gero? It was just off. But before we got a break, just my last question for you, but the suits in Salzburg at Red Bull, like, what defines, what makes them feel good about this because this is pretty big it's pretty expensive pretty big move they're making like what do you think they want from this well obviously they want to they want they want results um but also i think you know one of the things that you need to have in mind this as a team

you know if you get the only rider that was basically possible to get at this point of that kind of quality was Remko. If you have a leader, a strong, and we know that Remko is, you know, he has results, but he's also a strong leader personally, personality-wise. It also attracts other riders. You know, if you have a strong leader, it makes the team more attractive for other riders.

And I think that's what they are also chasing, you know, that Red Bull is one of the teams where writers actually want to go. And if a writer like Remko wants to go there, I think that says quite a bit about the structure and the organization. He's also a huge, huge star with people under the age of 30. Like I was talking to our old producer Colton about it. And like everyone under 30, it's like Remko's their favorite writer.

I don't fully like fully get it. But it's good for the Red Bull brand probably. Like he's a Red Bull type of writer. Yeah. Yeah, and he's a personality. He's also very, I mean, he doesn't leave anybody indifferent off the bike, which is important, I think. There's someone I think that's very good that we both feel that leaves us indifferent. I don't want to call him out by saying his name.

I'm going to say it. You're thinking about Jonas. Yeah, I just can't, I can't get excited about it. I mean, listen, it's, that's for a brand, it's not only about results. I mean, Jonas is obviously a great bike rider. But yeah, I mean, other than that, it's, you know, the interviews are very, very gray, I would say. You know, they're not very exciting and kind of always the same thing. It goes with the personality.

That's how Jonas is. You can't change that. You can't fake that one way or another. But, but yeah, I mean, something obviously that you have to take into account if you're a team and you hire a star rider is it's not just the results on the bike. but it's also the personality of the bike. And Remko is an interesting personality for any sponsor. Yeah. I'm often thinking about Remko having a poll.

In a way, I'm not thinking about Jonas Finnegard. And also, I guess if you're GM of Red Bull, the team, you go to Red Bull corporate, and they say, we're the best,

not mixed drinks. We're the best, like energy drink company in the world. We want the best cyclist. Who's the best cyclist? You say, Tadipagatja, he's not available.

Okay, who's second best? You're like, uh, Yonis, and he's not going anywhere. like, all right, so who's third? It's like, well, who are you going to get? Like, Remko's kind of the obvious choice. So, yeah, they might not have had a choice, really. Like, you just pick him because he's the best writer that's available.

Yeah, I would say, I would say even like image-wise, and I'm a huge Primos fan, but image-wise, Remko run circles around Primos in terms of the image for a brand. Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah. Even at Primos is pretty interesting. I think he's interesting but he is a very low key type of humor he has that's not yeah maybe the crowd favorite but let's take a quick break when we get back i want to ask you about delin grown a vegan going to a youtube team or what used to be a youtube team everyone this episode is brought to you by cook unity eating healthy is crucial for your energy and health we all know that but it doesn't have to be boring that's what i love about cook unity who gives you delivers to your door never frozen fresh

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All right, Johan, we are back. Dylan Grotavig and going to the Univet Tetema Rockets for, can we say the sum? Should we not say the sum? Well, I mean, we don't know. But I knew he was, I knew at JCO, he was making more than a middle. million. It's probably not going to be the same, but it's not going to be far off a million euros. I think it's, yeah, I mean, I think it's a big, big amount for a rider who hasn't won that much lately. But just it's still there. You know, I mean, the possibility is still

there. Grunovigan is always a sprinter. I mean, I had forgotten about this, but during this tour, I got reminded that last year he actually won a stage at the tour. Yeah, I was just going to ask you when do you think the last time he won a tour stage was not that long he wanted stage at the tour last year so you know um and plus he's dutch uh so so yeah i think it's it's an interesting move in that just for just for people that don't know the tetama rockets it's a team that is founded by a guy named boss tetema correct former racer ex professional ex professional rider he was on bmc uh then he started i mean he's he started the youtube channel um and that's actually how he started the team with two of his friends it's quite impressive spencer i mean if you think

about initially when they started i said what the what are these guys thinking right but man it's it's become i mean they's in their first year already last year was their first year i think they were already up there this year they are everywhere uh in in many races they are in front and they have great results they've become from a dutch team they've been they've become a French team. And I think that's with a purpose. Yeah. Because their goal is to get in the tour.

I think they're still quite a bit off. But, but yeah, I mean, heads off to these guys to have set up what they, you know, they came out of nowhere. And in year two, they're already a force to be, to be counted with, you know. I love the idea of just changing your affiliation to France. like that's a genius idea because it probably does increase your chances of getting invited to the tour quite a bit

well I think it's going to start with being invited to some ASO races in France for Paranis paris paris dube you know I don't know any any other races that they have and with Gronova again they can win they're not just they're like filling out the numbers like they could win a parianese stage

my big question is I kind of understand the team is I love I love the idea like they have very catchy jerseys everything they do is the design is amazing the story is good they're kind of funding the team through the youtube channel i guess they have a few sponsors like their bike sponsor probably kicks in unibet kicks in but how how can they afford this like a million i don't know i don't know um must come from somewhere i mean i don't know who pays for it they're changing bike sponsor by the way they're on canondale now they're not going to be on Cannondale next year.

They're changing to a German brand Rose, Rose Bikes, R-O-S-E. I think it's like an internet brand. They're not bad. I mean, they're okay. They're fine bikes. And it would, you would think that a direct-to-consumer brand like that, that's unknown, probably paying quite a bit of money because that's the only way they have to get people to know about their bikes.

Probably, probably. Yeah. Just other odds and ends that, We didn't really get to talk about during the tour. Inermarche-Wanty, merging with Lotto for next year. This is official, I guess. Like the documents have been filed with the UCI. And then the big star in that Bidiam Gremai, unclear, or in your words, clear that he's not coming back to the team, the combined team.

Yeah. Well, what I know about this is that nobody saw this coming and the news got out during the tour. I know that writers and staff have they knew this through the media during the Tour de France so that's not great you know if there's a merger

obviously there's going to be people who cannot stay right riders and staff and so I don't know the ins and outs from what I could gather it's the team remains under the control of Lotto the National Rotary Lottery.

The bikes will remain Orbea. Intermaché will probably come in as a co-sponsor. I don't know what the level of sponsoring will be and that the CEO will be a new CEO and it will be the actual CEO of the team Intermaché. His name is Jean-François-Gourlar. So obviously, you know, other people will have to move there. It's never great.

Listen, a merger is never great. A merger, I don't know if you can call this a merger. I think it's an acquisition. Yeah. Because if lotto remains in control company, why, so the paying agent remains Lotto. I don't know. I don't understand. I don't know if it's a really great thing.

From what I did understand was that intermarche or the company of Bular had some issues. Binyama Grimei is not going to stay unless, unless something changes, but I've heard that the bonuses of last year to Tour de France, green jersey, each stage wins have not been paid. You know, it's bonuses is always a risky thing, you know. I mean, if you if you have a budget and then you sign a writer and all of a sudden a writer outperformed, I mean, nobody would have thought that Binyam Giamai would have won three stages in the tour and the green jersey. And, you know, if you sign that contract and Girmai has a great agent, Alex Carrera. And so it's easy to say, okay, you know, so much for a stage win, so much bonus for the green jersey. And then as a manager, I know, he's never going to do that until he does. And then, yeah.

And so I'm not, I'm absolutely not a fan of this merger. It can leave a lot of people without the job, writers and staff. And I don't think it's the best combination either. Well, what it sounds like to me, Girmai is not going to stay. I mean, and a right like Gidemi has obviously offers. Plus, plus that, you know, the, the, the riders of Intermarche who still have a contract are free to leave because the paying agent changes.

Yeah. Now, if they don't want to leave, then I think they have a problem because there's too many riders. There's going to be too many riders. I mean, I did this when we had, when we merged Radio Shaq and Leopart. And, you know, when we put the two teams together, we had 42 riders with a contract, with a contract. So we had to find a solution for 12 of those riders. And the only solution was to pay out their contracts. So we paid out the contract and they went to other teams or retired that's not a great situation you know and probably too much staff too i would with the staff it's the same so um so yeah um i i don't i don't think it's a great thing

i'm just looking at it now they have 38 riders under contract okay so eight for next year eight of those uh does does getemai still have a contract you're my does and he does so he's not included So 37. Well, I mean, the guys who there's probably, I mean, for Girmai, it's not bad because he can leave for a bigger contract somewhere else, even after having won the green jersey because I think he signed a multi-year deal before the green jersey. And he, you know, that was kind of, you know, made up with, with his bonuses. But if you don't get the bonuses, and then, yeah.

I'll tell you what, there's some good riders on this that's going to be left out. If I was running a team that had room on my roster, I would be looking to scoop some of these guys up. There are some good riders on both these teams. What it sounds like to me, or just reading between the lines, I mean, I think you hit it.

It's not really a merger. It's Lotto needed a second sponsor. Lotto couldn't find a second sponsor. Intermarche Wanti, probably in quite a bit of financial trouble, overextended themselves, was going to fold. This is like just Lotto being creative,

of thinking, oh, well, you can just kind of acquire this team and then we get their sponsors. And now we have our second sponsor. We have other. Yeah, well, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not going to be enough. I, I, I don't think it's a great move, Spencer. What do you think their combined budget will be? Like, what's the loto budget next year now? I think lotto is now 15 million or something.

They were looking for a co-sponsor. Even with the merger, I don't think it will accept. exceed $20 million. Oh, man. So they'll get Intermarche's staying, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Or whatever other brand intermarche owns.

Yeah, yeah. But you don't, obviously, you don't get their bike sponsor. You can only have one bike sponsor. Yeah. So that's already baked into the $15 million. And then so it's whatever Intermarche is paying for title sponsorship, maybe a few other minor ones. Yeah.

I guess I guess that kind of makes sense. It's still pretty low budget. Yeah. Yeah. And then where does Beniam go, you think? Astana probably. Oh, man. Well, that is kind of, that's interesting. Wow. Well, you don't really, if you're, Beniam, you're not really want to go somewhere with the GC leader. Yeah. Because that hurts your ability to go for green, hunt stages. So maybe Astana does make sense. Mm-hmm.

Astana. We'll talk about that. XDS. Sorry. XDS, yeah. But that is quite the turnaround. We need to talk about that later. And then obviously, we'll talk about this later in the show. These two teams coming together leaves of now free spot for basically now the 19th place team in the combined aggregate three-year rolling rankings for World Tour points, UCI points, is now included in the World Tour. Because two World Tour teams are merging.

So an extra team will get a World Tour spot. Johan, before we talk about that, though, we have got to talk about some transfers, some interesting things going on. NEOs had some riders lined up like Kevin Valkland to bring on. Sounds like he's still coming, but the word we're receiving is Dave Breltsford has sat down, looked at the contracts and said, what the heck's going on? I don't want some of these riders. Some of these riders are too expensive.

We're not going to pay them that. And it's kind of putting a freeze on the hirings that they thought they had made. what exactly is this and like how does this work like if sam wellsford signed a deal or did he sign like an intent to sign a deal and then that can be trant i think filippo zana is the one that yeah son was going to get paid a lot of money and then ennio said maybe not and then now he has to like beg jaco to take him back but how does that deal get canceled if it's already been signed well i mean i'm going to guess it's not signed uh it's probably just a letter of intent um and you know it's the same you know you don't want to go where you're not wanted or invited you know

you never go to a party if you're not invited you're not going to like calm them out to be like I'm coming whether you want me to yeah so I mean I mean it all depends what has been signed you know it probably gives gives uh Zana and his agent some leverage to say okay you know we'll not insist but hey we need at least a compensation right that's always a possibility And so I don't know. I mean, I think what Brailsworth is doing is probably waiting to see how the market is and trying to see if there's one star rider, same like Remko. I mean, there was rumors that he was going to go to Enaos, Remko didn't work out.

Maybe there's somebody else who they can try to get from another team, somebody who wants to leave the team. I don't know. I mean, just to name one writer. I mean, for example, Juan Ayuso, probably not going to, I'm not saying that's going to be the case, but, you know, if Juan Ayuso looks at his future and and Pogacar's there, I mean, he's not going to have any chance at the tour. It's probably not going to race the tour or any other races where Pogatcha races. So then you have to ask yourself, well, do I really want to stay here? Do I want to move? Is there a room to negotiate? I mean, it never hurts to talk. And Braillefurt is pretty good at that at negotiating. So I think he just wants to keep the options open until he's sure he cannot get another big name. And then there's still time to, you know, reopen the agreement of Philippo Zana.

I mean, Zana, he's a good writer, but it's not like there's teams lining up to sign him, you know? Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I feel like that's a bit of a miss. someone like Zana, he is so talented. Yeah. And you're like, how often do talents like that? It's like Kevin Valklan, like big talent. Like to me, a rider like that that you can nurture is is the edge in modern cycling.

Like you have to find like you have to have someone with the ceiling that's there or else they're just not going to be good enough. Zana does have that ceiling. I think it's a mistake. But, but man, who is available at this point off the top of my head? The only people I can think of would be want and these people aren't even really available. level. Why do you so? Juala Meda, Primus Rogwitch. Like, one of the rider would be big enough for them to take a swing at. I mean, Primus. Primos. Yeah, that would be the most iniest thing to do, though. You signed like a 36-year-old Primus Rogwitch for a ton of money and then he doesn't.

I mean, he's still going to win races, you know. He's still going to win races. I'm not sure if if Red Bull would really be, you know, hard in negotiating the exit of Primos. I mean, I would keep him. He's, listen, he's a valuable writer. He's, you know, he's one of the greatest of the last decade, you know. Yeah. I guess there's, there's also Oscar Onley would be the other one that maybe he's still, he only still on, uh, he still has a contract. Okay, well, listen, I mean, that's not a bad one because, uh, let's not forget, you know, that that team is not shy. of trading in riders with their riders. Yeah.

I mean, they're very smart. Very smart at sign selling riders at the top of their value. It's kind of how they fund the team. So maybe that's what's cooking here. But it does, this is not the first time it's happened. It's happened two years ago where Brailsford was not really involved with the team. Rod Ellingworth made deals. Brailsford comes in and says, what the heck have you done?

And then pull deals off the table. like that's why it took to Tobias Foss so long to come on board because then they had to renegotiate the deal. Carlos Verona had a deal then finally he didn't get the deal and went to track. And won the zero

stage. Yeah. Yeah. But it's I don't know. It's David Brailsford perhaps knows what he's doing. I think what Brailford has been doing he's been taking stock of what the situation was during the tour and then you know, finally

finally said, okay, we need to do this. We need to do this. Let's just wait. I mean, budget wise, I think they're going to be fine. Obviously, it's not going to increase because whatever comes extra will probably be, you know, recuperated by Radcliffe. But they have total energies on board now. Still, it's still unclear to me how it's possible to have two teams. You know, it's it's in a of total energies and then you have total energies the french team who you next year still have it still have a team i guess like an equipment sponsor would be the obvious counter to that yeah i mean yeah that's equipment sponsors is different but they're not in the name does trek trek doesn't have another world tour team right no no no yeah

it would be like a little trek then was racing against like trek sagafredo and those were two separate teams you know you track could potentially also sponsor another team with bikes but they would not be in the name no no no It's really strange to be. It's actually F1 kind of has a situation like this. But so it is like, so if you're doubting to as Babe Rilsford, like maybe I am,

but just look at, I think he knows what he's doing. But look at, it's actually interesting. So they won six world tour races throughout the first part of the year. In the last three weeks alone, they've won four. So they are turning things around,

like at least from a wins perspective. And they have riders like Ben Turner, How long has that guy been good and not winning big races? And then he suddenly wins a race at Tour Poland. Or Victor Langalotti, who I was confused about that signing, guy wins a world tour race. Yeah, that was impressive that stage went. Yeah, it was.

And the reason I think the winning is important, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I think the problem with Ineos partly is it's like very, very good riders, but like no finishers. And then you kind of get in a malaise where no one ever wins, but they're pretty good but if you don't have like that tip of the spear I feel like the mentality of a team is just it's not like the winning mentality

I know it sounds like stupid and basic but if you just have like if someone is crossing the finish line first I think that does kind of kick the team into gear and you know maybe that maybe that is like what what they're turning into where they have like Ben Turner winning and then it would be interesting

if they could get Oscar Onley as a GC rider That's not, and maybe even Juan of Yusso. Maybe, maybe Brailsford is big things cooking and that's why these are being paused. Definitely thinking of something. Yeah, I mean, I would be going for Juano Yuso. I'm actually quite excited for this Welta. We'll talk about it next week. But this is a big, big Volta for Wana Yuso and also for Jolameda.

But before we got to our next ad break, another team that I'm a little confused by, DeKathlon AG2R, soon to be, I guess, DeCathlon. Who's the, it's like, who's the sponsor coming on next year? it's like a luxury brand but they're making a lot of noise at some point I don't think I don't think it's Loreale I think it's something else I'm not sure making a lot of noise about being the next super team of the sport they're sending out a lot of good riders who are they bringing in to be there like and who's left to bring in at this stage of the season yeah well I mean they signed

Olaf Coy they've signed Tish Benot they have signed I don't remember who else they have signed someone else so I mean Benot and Coy are obviously

two good writers coming from Visma but it's clear that Deccatlon wants a change they want to completely get away from the pure French identity they want to be international. I've heard, for example, that all the meetings, it's an obligation. Now, all the meetings are in English. Interesting. And I heard that's why they signed or not signed. They hired Luke Roe. Well, they look Roe, then they have, they have this other Australian,

they have another Australian DS. I forgot his name now. Luke Roberts. Is he there? Luke Roberts? I think so. Yeah. I think so. So there's, it's a different, it's a different, it's a different philosophy. So Decathlon is pushing big, both with the team, with a lot of other sports. And for example, I mean, over here, obviously football is soccer, football is big. You know, there's a, there's a very famous French football player, Grisman. Andri Grisman is a famous football player and he plays with decathlon gear, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago. So it's clear that Decathlon is pushing really, really hard to be a big player in elite sports. And yeah, I can see them. I can see them definitely be one of the top teams in

the in the next few years. Interesting. I mean, I guess they have in their mind, they have the star inside the house already with Paul Seishas, Sexas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was riding in France last week and I was shocked at the amount of just on the road like left over from the dauphiné how much Paul Seishas where paraphernalia there was like talk about a star in the making and also if you think you can ride as fast as the pros just as a little little reference point here I did the coat due to Monci which was it's been featured what a few times recently the time trial in the 2023 tour where Vinegard won the dofinae this year where pagachar just destroyed everybody

it probably will feature in the 2027 world championships no no for sure for sure yeah pagachar did it in about six minutes six 14 so you think oh what am I going to be eight minutes something like that like 14 minutes so over twice as twice as slow

but here's like the sobering thing to give you an idea of the power these guys are putting out in the like the lethal combination of weight and power, I would have to do something like 750 watts to go the same speed for six minutes. I don't think you can do that, Spencer. I probably can't do that. So we're not to lose some weight or get stronger. But, you know, Pagatja's light.

He's not that light, though. You know, he's like, what, 63, 64 kilos? Yeah, it's still light. It's light. Yeah. He's putting out a lot of power on those efforts, like a lot. It's actually really crazy when you do that. that and you realize the power a normal size person would have to do to be as fast as them.

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Get the link in the show notes if you didn't write it down. All right, back to the show. So, Johan, we are back. The relegation battle, we thought, I do have to make an apology to Astana. I think I said on this show, like just a few months ago, it was not possible for them to be. I thought the same at the beginning of the season. I definitely thought the same that was not going to be possible. Man, they're in, like, safety.

Yeah, yeah, they're just in cruising, not even thinking about it. A team that probably thought they were safe, I mean, I don't know how much we want to get into these. They can start to get abstract a certain point, but the last team in assuming Intermarche and Lato are merging is co-fittes. They have 20, over the last three years, they have 23,923 points. behind them is UnoX, 23,470 points, which is really impressive when you consider how few points UnoX was scoring the last two years. Like this year, they have crushed it. Like, they're 11th overall with almost 8,000 points.

Kofidus has been terrible, 20th overall with 5,500 points, essentially. But really what this means is there's what a delta now of 453 points. UNOX is winning, like, a lot. Like, they, like, they won, what, yesterday at the tour of Denmark, they probably have more wins. What this probably could come down to is the tour of Guangxi. I don't even know if UNOX is invited to that. It's kind of an interesting thing to think about.

But if they win, like, two or three more races, they could overtake Kofidis. And Kofidis, the problem is they're not scoring at all. Like, they were nowhere at the tour. They've been nowhere since the tour ended. Like, they could now, a team that I thought was. safe. They probably thought they were safe. Could could realistically get relegated. Yeah, obviously they didn't. They didn't. They were not great on the transfer market either. You know, they signed a lot of expensive riders for yeah. I mean, I've heard a few, a few. I mean, if the information I got is

true, it's crazy. Some writers went there like for their retirement fund, you know? But, but yeah, I mean, 450 points, man. I mean, you know X. their UNOX is pretty good at also winning one day races and there's a bunch still to come of those races a lot like the whole Italian campaign yeah I would not uh I mean if I'm coffee this I would not feel safe at all um yeah I mean this the UNOX I think they're world two ready you know they are definitely a great team uh great sponsor with a big with a big potential um it's going to be interesting to follow that battle Where is Tudor, by the way, in this battle?

The second part of this actually is quite interesting. So Tudor is not going to make it because they haven't been a team long enough. They are in 23rd in the aggregate rankings quite a bit of way down. But where this gets interesting is, you know, the top three pro teams, I guess the second division teams qualify for all the races. Right now the top one is Uno X. So this would be for next year, these are all invited to every race, essentially. Uno X, Tudor is Israel's third, second, but they will be world tours, so they're out. Tudor then is effectively the second team.

So they're now going to be invited to everything, and Q36.5 is third. So I think I even said on the show a few months ago, I was like, I don't get why Tom Pickok's going there because they're not going to go in races. In all the big races, yeah. And the big losers on this. Where does that put coffee then if they're out? Kofides is. So if UNOX makes it, where does it put Kofidis? Okay, no, this is more complex than I thought.

Because now Kofidus is right above Q36.5. So now these two teams, not only is Kofidus battling UnoX, they're battling Q36.5, because if they get relegated, they're no longer the third team. Who? Because then Q3. Well, right now they would be, but if they don't perform in Q36.5 does well. What's the difference between Q36.5 and Kofidis? it's it's kind of a lot it's 700 points currently but this takes us into our last topic of the day

johan tom pickock not doing the world mountain bike championships because he's going to the volta espaniate to chase the top 10 i saw this news i thought this doesn't make any sense why why do they care about that but do you know what the top 10 at the vaulta comes with a lot of points how many so well here let's just look at it's a lot like that could be enough right there to make up the delta. That's also assuming that Kofides wouldn't be in the top 10 in the Nouvelda,

which they probably won't be. Probably is a safe assumption to make, actually. Like, let's just say, David Goddoux last year's scores, 415 UCI points for sixth place at the Volta. And then Pitcock, I'd assume they're imagining he could win at least the stage, if not more, right?

Yeah. So do you think that's why, I mean, obviously they were invited. It really doesn't matter, Spencer, because, well, it does matter. It does matter if, you know, X, but if, you know, X makes it to the world tour, then Kofidis and Tudor and Q306.5 are in any way, right? It would be. If, you know, X makes it, then it's still the three teams.

It would still be Kofi this and two-door. And Kofidus, even if they were somehow overtaken and not third. they would still get invited to the tour, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, French team. Yeah, so it still would be a big blow for them. But yeah, you're right, they would still be the third pro team. So it kind of doesn't matter at all, but it's more, I guess, security after next year. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess, yeah, it doesn't really matter. It's kind of interesting, though, to think about it. I'm just more shocked at cofidus's, like, fall. Like, they've obviously struggled in the years past, but this is like, they are really struggling. And then it kind of doesn't, it kind of makes sense when you talk about the contracts you're hearing and the type of writing writers they're targeting.

I'll tell you one of the contracts offline. It's crazy. It's this. I mean, the relegation system gets criticized a lot. But in my mind, like, one thing that it could be good to maybe de-incentivize is a team like co-fittist that just sits comfortably in the spot and then doesn't make really smart sporting decisions. get better and then it's kind of blocking teams like the Tetima rockets from rising up because

they're just chewing up a spot even if they're not i don't want to say taking it seriously but they're just comfortable where they are they're not like striving for more so i do kind of wonder sometimes if it holds back more ambitious cutting-edge teams so that i guess that would be the reason for i think also one of the reasons why pitcoq goes to the to the welta is uh in my opinion it's also a requirement for the invitation you know ASO yeah the VELTA ASO invited Q36.5 to the race but it was dependent on Pitcock being present same went with the Gero by the way you know they were at the Giro pitcoq was at the Gero does he win world championships mountain bike if he shows up probably right I mean it depends on the course um if it's if it's if

it's a lot of climbing there's not many people who can beat him uh if it's if it's a lot of climbing not even matheur beats him i think uh in in mountain biking but uh yeah i mean it's it's gonna be he's not going to go now and van der pool will go so funderpool will try to be world champion mountain bike that's the one that he's missing has tom pickark won a world championship Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He won in Scotland. Wait. Three years ago. Did he? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right. 2023. So, yeah, there's kind of nothing left for him. He has two Olympic championships, a world championships, European championships, eight World Cups. It's like, well, he just won the European championships, by the way, this year for the second time. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think Vanderpull wins this? Not micro-champions? Where is it?

That would be a, that would be a big question. I'm going to look up before I did the show. Listen, I think, I think he does. I think he does because, I mean, the difference in engines is just amazing. If he, if he doesn't win, it's because he's going to have some kind of mishap, which, you know, has been proven to be the case, you know, whenever he has raised now lately, he's had some issues technically but now he has more time to prepare and yeah it's in valet switzerland but i don't know what the course is it's obviously going to be hard yeah i mean

these courses are really they're all really hard like yeah so um so yeah i'm not sure but anyway listen randrepool with the tour of friend i mean in the tour he was he was climbing amazingly also for his you know, for his qualities. He takes that form into the rest of the season, you know. This is true. I mean, yeah, just the engine level. I'm quite, it happens during the Vuelta, which is kind of disappointing, but I'm quite excited for that world championships.

Actually, but anything else you want to say, Johan, before we get going on. I think we've covered mostly everything. We haven't talked about any races that have been going on, but. I think we'll do our in-depth deep dive of stage three of the time trial at the tour of Denmark next week on Monday. Each pacing strategy for each rider. But the racing's actually been pretty good. I don't want to make it sound like I'm laughing at the racing. I've like been I've been impressed with Corbin Strong, by the way.

Corbyn strong. He won the race in Belgium there in Wallonia and he just won the Arctic race. I mean, that was an amazing performance. He was the only guy to be able to follow Pitcock on the hardest climb. Yep. And then defended it really well on the last stage. So, yeah, that guy's on some really good form, Corbyn Strong. Yeah, really good rider.

I mean, that was such a hard finish to stay with Pitcock. Like, I'm sure Pitcock was expecting to win the overall. Yeah. You'd imagine. Yeah. So to beat a rider of that caliber and a GC, not easy at all. How old is Corbyn Strong? 25 years old.

A lot of good riders on that team, actually. Yeah. It is real. All right, Johan, well, have a good week, and we'll be back next week to preview the Valta, Spain. Okay. It's going to be quite a good battle, quite an interesting race, but we will talk later. Okay, thanks, Spencer. Bye.