THEMOVE - Can Anyone Challenge Remco Evenepoel at the Time Trial World Championships? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel discuss the recent racing and transfer action, and get into the World Championships in Kigali, Rwanda, break down how the event ended up there, and who they think will win Sunday's Time Trial. And, before they go, they answer a few interesting questions from listeners.   Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access

With the UCI having a French president who is very, very, I would say, facilitating the wishes of ASO, to the France. I know that the Tour de France would rather have 16 World Tour teams than 18, because that gives them more room to invite teams. It would still be the same teams probably, but it's in their hands, in their decision, right? So I'm sure that ASO will push for 17 teams and not 18. I'm 100% sure. But whether that's going to happen or not, that's still to be seen.

Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, our weekly edition of the show that runs through the offseason and in weeks when there's not major races. Just as a show note, we will be back next week with an outcomes for to preview the world championships. There will be a move going over the world championship. And then when we get into our off-season rhythm, we'll be doing this weekly. We do answer questions at the end from listeners. So if you have questions, send them to info at we do. Dot team. And we'll get to them if we can.

I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Yon-Bernil. We are going through our, it's our basket of post-Volta-Aspania topics, a little bit of recent racing, some transfers and World Championships time trial coming up this Sunday. We'll do a light, light preview and predictions on that. But, Johan, first of all, how are you doing post post-Volta? How are you coming down from the race? I mean, we all, I mean, we've already talked about, you know, that it was a disappointing end of the Vuelta.

But, you know, we got back into it straight away. You know, there's many, many races this week, too many to watch them all, or at least to watch them all at the same time. We can't keep up. So, so, yeah, doing good. and the it's great to hear the first one that yeah it is an odd rhythm so the volta finishes and then i kind of have to go back and catch up it was different this year because there was no sunday stage so i got to watch gp montreal as it happened and then we you kind of like have two days off and then there's all these races flying at you

the first one that stuck out stuck out to me the gp waloney won by arno delis who we were just talking about in a private conversation recently like oh he's like Now, it had a great fall, but he looked incredible in that sprint finish. Binyam Gremay was third. I frankly had never heard of this writer who finished second. Emilien Gionnierre. Johnier, yeah, Emilien Gionnierre. He had a, you would have to check Spencer, but I think, I mean, if, I think it's probably one of the record holders of the most second places this year.

He had so many, so many. I'm looking at his page now. It's almost all second places. He's a good rider. He's a good rider. But yeah, the Lee, man, I mean, it's kind of incredible, actually, to see, you know, like two days before these guys were still in Canada. So, basically, yeah, I know. Long flight, you know, they've been there all week, long flight back and then straight into racing.

And I mean, the Lee is from Bologna. He's a French-speaking Belgian. And it's, I mean, it's a hard race, which finishes in a sprint. I mean, back in, I wrote the Grand Prix Wadoni when I was a pro many times. And it was always climbers. There was never a sprint like this. It was always guys at the end who got away. The level of the Peloton now is so good that the parkours of the Grand Prix Léin, Wadon,

it doesn't split it up. But you need to be really strong. And I think it was an impressive demonstration of power of Ardo Léli. After the tour, you know, after the tour, he got back on a really good, good level, you know, won the, was it the Renévi Tour? He won that and, you know, he's won a few races since. So he's back on a really, really good level. It looks like the old Arnold Lee is back. Yeah, I would say answered any questions I have about his form.

I know he was having like health problems, like maybe he got Lyme disease or something. Is that right? Yeah, but that was, I think that was last. year. That was last year. This year, he struggled in the spring, was completely out of shape. I think there was some kind of issues about motivation. But they got him back on the rails, and this is Arnold Lee that we all like to see. I think, was it two years ago when he did this impressive win there in Quebec? I think, or was it last year? It was two years ago.

Two years ago. I think he goes to that level again. Yeah, he started the season in a condition that I know very well. As someone that knows the body shape that he was sporting at the start of the year, I can speak on great authority about what happened over that off season. But outside of Dele, we have the tour of Slovakia going on. And this is going to be an easy one, because there's been three stages. and we have the same first place and second place every day.

Paul Monnier winning Lucas Kubis from Unabet Tetima Rockets, which I mean, that's a pretty good result for a team like that, getting second every day. Yeah, yeah. I mean, stay the same. I mean, three bunch sprints, Magni, there's no, nobody even close. They also have the best team, I think, the best lead-out team.

At least the two sprints I saw is basically, they drop him off and he just has to pass the last guy. I mean, he does, I mean, he's fast. You know, this is, I think, so he won three out of three stages. Today was his ninth win of the season, I think, you know, for a guy of 21 years old, big talent. I think we talked about him, was it last year or two years ago in our up-and-commerce? I think it was last year. Yeah, man, I might have been two years.

I remember being on the Sunday. So the central line texting with you about it. And I think that was two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just 21. And he won his first race of the year. The, uh, ets well de besege.

Yeah. Yeah. And then now is still great talent. Great talent. And then the way he wins, he has, he has a lot of power from sitting down. Like from, he sprints from in the seat sometimes. And, um, yeah. I mean, huge, huge, huge, huge talent.

It comes from, actually comes from the same development team as Tom Pitcock. Before he turned pro, he was on Trinity Racing. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. How did he get hooked up with Trinity? I guess that's like a specialized funnel kind of. Well, yeah, no, I mean, they don't exist anymore now.

I think they stopped last year. But, I mean, there's many good riders from there. I believe Luke Lamparty was on that team. Lamparty was there. to Thomas Gloke was there also, I mean, plenty of others. I mean, one of the good teams that went away, like almost every single team in the UK, actually. There's almost no teams left in the UK. Yeah, it's kind of a, it's like what's happening in the, what's happened in the US is happening in the UK with like the disappearance of racing and teams.

Not good if you're trying to develop. Well, I mean, speaking of the U.S., did I see that Philadelphia is coming back next year? Yeah, I got a press release about that. I guess it's coming back. Do we know what level it's coming back at? I don't know. I don't know. And, yeah, it could be people love that race.

It was like a big part of American cycling. The only thing I'm concerned about is maybe this isn't the forum to share it. But like, you watch the Canada races and they are, they just pop off the screen. Like the cities look amazing. Yeah. There's so much, like, fanfare around them. And then I just worry, like even, I mean, Tour California was great. Like, that was one, that was an amazing U.S. race.

But, like, the thing I worry about when we watch, like, Baltimore, you're like, the roads are not repaved. The roads are in terrible condition. The populace seems a little confused about what's going on. I just worry now with, like, Philly has the layoff been so long that the race comes back and the local residents of Philly are like, what is going on here? what is it's just like a U.S. races sometimes struggle to bridge that gap between yeah before before it was part of the the culture in Philadelphia it was a classic yeah and it's been gone for a long time yeah wasn't wasn't uh wasn't Philadelphia at some point also the national championships like the first American rider finishing in that race was national champion I believe our friend George Hincappy won it that way at least once but yeah it was like yeah i don't remember that the race would happen and then that's how they decided the winner yeah which i kind of i kind of don't hate that

i mean because you get all the best riders there whereas the u.s national championships now struggles because it's like right in the middle of the giro so it's hard for people to come over and do it um but yeah so philly could be back that's exciting we'll see we'll see i'm tentatively excited about it. Another race that's happening, Tour of Luxembourg, it's had three stages. We had Romangu Riguayor winning stage one. Impressive. Impressive

win by the bragging war. Very impressive. Yeah. And then stage two was like better Luxembourg sprinters and I think like the Luxembourg world national champion crashed in the final few hundred meters. So in Tour of Luxembourg

there is a national team of Luxembourg with riders from other teams that don't participate. So this, I think he's 21 years old. I forgot his name. Now, what's his name? Matthew Cockleman. Cockleman, yeah.

He's on Lotto. He's on Lotto development team. Oh, okay, that's why he's so good. That makes sense. He's on Lotto development team and turns pro next year with the World Tour team of Lotto. But still, impressive stage win. And then today he was Matthias Kelmoza, who won the uphill finish. Also, straight from Canada back here.

And then, you know, as soon as this is finished, then they fly to Rwanda. You know, there's not going to be much time to adapt. No. But I think the tour of Luxembourg, Spencer, it's going to be won by Brandon McNulty. You know, McNulty's up there in almost the same time. I think he's six or eight seconds down in G. tomorrow there's a long time trial. There's 26 kilometer time trial, which in modern cycling for such a small stage race is long. So long. Yeah. That's more individual time trial than

the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I think McNulty, especially in, on the form he's is now, he's, he's winning that time trial and closing in the overall, I think. Yeah. And he was third today. So he's eight seconds back with time. Um, this is there. Jordi, Jordi, Jordan Jigat got second. You guys had a great season. And he's going to Worlds, I believe, on the French team. We should mention kind of a weird, I don't fully understand it, but like Brandon McNulty on great form wins Montreal, he's going to win Tour of Luxembourg, doesn't go to world

champions. Yeah. Not going to the world championships. I check the participants list that he's not on there. I don't get it. I don't understand. And it's Matthew Ricotelo, another writer that you think they're all. never be a better world championships for him well we didn't we get the information i mean not

that it matter i mean these guys uh they have good enough contracts and they it would not be a problem for them but out of principle also uh didn't we get the information that the american riders actually have there to pay their way their own way out of their own pocket to the worlds i believe everyone i've talked to is paying their own way there seems to be like a grant if you already like a U-23 rider you can apply for a grant and so like a few riders have done that but i know there's like a junior woman that's doing a go fund me to pay away like we know junior athletes that are paying their own way and then yeah like a lot of the men's riders pay their own way to the world championships what's going on what's going on with USA cycling what the federation i mean

that's not normal i mean it's it's still a big federation i think they're properly funded I guess why I don't yeah I mean people people have asked that question because they say their goal is to win medals at worlds so you think if that was your goal you wouldn't you wouldn't incentivize these writers to go or how many so so this is I mean you like to do research Spencer for the next show maybe you can you can look it up because we're still going to be talking about worlds try to figure out or find out how many staff people how many Like officials who go to the world and we sleep in a nice hotel and we fly business class over to Rwanda. I would like to, I would like to know that. I would bet it's, it's quite a few. I mean, they do. I'm not talking about stuff. I'm not talking about mechanics and masseuses.

I'm talking about officials who doesn't really matter if they're there or not, you know. Um, yeah, well, anyway, here you go. That's, that's sports federation. for you. And the people that the people that work there may make nice salaries. And then I think it's it's it's like it's indefensible that they're not paying for the riders to go. I don't understand that.

It isn't if it's there's there are federations where you actually could expect it from. You know, like there's certain regulations in in South America. For example, the Mexican Federation. I mean, I don't think the Mexican Federation even exists for the moment or at least They're not allowed to operate under the UCI because there was problems with money. I mean, I know that the Mexican riders pay their own way, but that's kind of, I would say, to be expected. But not from USA cycling, man. What's going on there?

It's embarrassing. I mean, let's try to find out for the next episode. Yeah, we will because they might actually have to publish that somewhere because they are. partially publicly funded, I believe. But yeah, we're going to look into this. We do now know now for sure that, you know, the majority of the, the, the writers and not just the professionals, even in other categories, have to pay the wrong way. I mean, we know people that go there who are not in their own way.

And they're paying their own way. So I don't think that's, that's, that's not to be done. it's it's pseudo embarrassing I guess an American and then you're like we can't even get these people to I know with the going all the way back to Qatar you remember what was that

2016 world championships where that they were just they like sent a note out and it was like whoever is willing to fly themselves to the race can race where was that in the Qatar World Championships which one

Peter Sagan won a Qatar okay yeah yeah okay I thought you said a Cutter. I think that's how they pronounce it. I think Qatar. Qataris.

Qatar. I want to appeal this to Tataris. Please email in. How do you say your country's name? But they like, yeah, like sent out a note. And it's like, if you want to pay your own way, you can go race for the U.S. So they've been skimping for a long time on this. I would think that Brandon McNulty would be a great writer to go to the World Championships and potentially metal.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we should talk to, we should get Quinn Simmons on the show next week. Let him unload on USA. Yeah, let's ask him if he has to pay his own way. Yeah, we will. I'm going to, I'm going to say the, I'm going to say the answer is probably yes. I would, I would think so. If they're not paying for the juniors.

I mean, even like, Matteo Jorgensen, is he going? He's not going. He's not going, no. And then there's obviously also another debate. I mean, we should probably not extend too much about about this, but there's also probably people who refuse to go because it's in Rwanda and there's obviously big problems going on there with, you know, the president of Rwanda and conflicts and, you know, so there's people who have refused to go because of that also. Yeah, I mean, you like a real journalist, though, you've been talking to people on the ground

who know a thing or two and they say actually where the races is probably quite. safe yeah yeah yeah i've spoken to people and that's true that's uh um people who have been there who have lived there and they are not worried about the safety of the race which i mean i'm pretty sure i mean listen if today for example i mean first first of all rwanda is there's there's what's his name karami he's considered a dictator you know i'm pretty sure he has enough power he has all the power in the world because I just recently read, he got re-elected with 99% of the votes. So I think he has, I think he has his stuff in order to make sure that nothing's going to happen there.

This podcast is just slowly becoming like today in politics. We are mirroring way too far. But how did they get this? Do they pay market rate for it, you think? Well, I think that, I mean, I don't think so. I know I've spoken to some people is that it's part of the bigger picture when La Portein was starting to have ideas to get to be a candidate for the IOC presidency. He knew that the African votes were going to be important. And that's part of what he has promised in exchange for votes from Africa.

is a big cycling event in Rwanda. Finally, it seems to be that didn't work because he only got four votes out of 60-something votes in the elections of the IOC president. Well, that's the reason. I mean, it was for exchange of votes. And it's always, if you're the running president, it's always good to keep certain continents happy, like Africa. Oceania, the Caribbean, Asia, because ultimately, I mean, if you if you like it or not, these are continents that are not cycling specific.

And most of the time, the people in charge of the federations and, you know, the continental federations are people who are pure politicians and sports administrators, not specifically people who know about cycling. It's more difficult. I mean, in Europe, you won't get away with the lobbying and, you know, the trying to buy votes or, you know, go and go around and try to get the votes. You're going to be judged on what you do and what you don't do, especially what you haven't done. So I think the African world championships is part of this policy of trying to get votes for whatever you need votes for. probably didn't help him that he was running he got the ioc president that was elected is from africa so that probably didn't help if you're trying to court you know that's another that's a

whole other story but that's also i mean it's not really it didn't really get elected spencer it was all you know it's it's the same thing you know i mean if you get elected uh i think i mean we're getting off track here but you know i mean in a democracy you get elected by the people Right, but everybody has a vote, you know, in sports federations, and, you know, if you look at the cycling federation, for example, I know that particular voting system, and then the IOC works the same in almost all sporting federations. It's not the members who vote. It's representatives of the members, and it's done in such a way that if you are actually in power, it's extremely difficult to lose an election against somebody who comes from outside because you have. direct connection and direct power and direct relationship and the direct resources to get that goodwill. And somebody who comes from outside is not going to win. And in the case of the

IOC, this lady from Zimbabwe, what's her name? Kristen Coventry? I think so. Olympic champion swimmer, I believe, right? But she was the preferred candidate of the exiting president Bach who had vouched for her and I don't think he just vouched for her. He did the necessary to make sure that she was going to be the president. It was not even a contest. It was not even close. She got like 70% of the votes and then all the other candidates had like a little tiny bit of votes. I mean, even a guy, even somebody like Sebastian Coe, who's a legend, you know, he's multiple Olympic champion and, you know, has.

been the president of the athletics federation for years he had peanuts he had almost no votes who would have been probably a very capable president of the ioc because you know he's been in office for a long time in in that role in the in the athletics federation and he's been an athlete the top athlete and has seen all the different aspects of the sport which and okay in this case this lady has also been an athlete elite athlete but yeah anyways i'm i'm going too far now and maybe she's going to be a great precedent but yeah i agree that maybe sebastian co legend absolute legend do you want crazy fact about spasian co so he ran in the 80s you know can you imagine like the shoes and the in the clothes they're running in the track surfaces they're running on his 800 meter time

is one minute 41 seconds. The current world record is one minute 40 seconds.9. Wow. So like that, like Sebastian Co. Running and modern technology would be breaking that world record. That is crazy. Yeah. And there's a few of those.

There's a few of those. Yeah. Yeah. So the athletics world championships is going on right now. That's what we're going to pivot to for the rest of the show. I'm watching that too, by the way. it's odd it's kind of at a hard time in the u.s but actually i don't know if you saw this like american 400 meter hurdler just ran the open and then almost broke an unbreakable world record

pretty wild wow and then there was another american uh was it was it uh was it 400 meter hurdles or 200 me i don't remember he he won and then he got disqualified for hitting the last hurdle and then two minutes later he got reinstated no way yeah it was it was weird it was so funny he was that they gave them a crown so he was sitting there and he had a gold crown on like straight after the finish and then he had to take his crown off and then five minutes later they gave it back whoa crazy so that must have been rye benjamin yes i haven't seen this race yet benjamin yeah benjamin yeah he's like in this duel with the uh carston the norwegian guy No, the Norwegian guy was not even close.

It was a Brazilian guy who was second. Interesting. Interesting. Well, so there's the one race we didn't talk about, or one bigger race, the Campan Schaup van Vlandren. Oh, von Vlandren. Huge race. Huge race.

I mean, the sprint world championships. Well, this is funny. It's like, so cycling is such an odd sport because we just had the Vuelta-Spania. You think that would be a big deal. Not really for sprinters, right? Like almost no sprinters there other than the Asper Phillips. But the Kappenschrapp von Vlanderan, they're all there. Jonathan Milan, Dylan, Grosvenich championships in Coltskamp.

It's very near to my hometown. Tim Relyer, like, we got to see, like, one of the best sprint battles of the year today. And Jonathan, Mal wins. So it was Milan, Grunnevegan, and Middle Year, no? Yeah, one, two, three. Yeah. Yeah. So Milan, like, keep an eye on him for, I mean, that, it's kind of been trending toward him being the best sprinter in the

world the only obstacle there is yes for phillipson does seem to be unbeatable in grand tour sprints but that's a major result from tim earlier hasn't done too bad neither not not done too bad he does seem to have a hard tours that he participated in i'm going to say he didn't yeah he is a hard time getting selected for grand tours for reasons unknown to me well i mean you know he was on suda he's on Sunsudal, Remko was there. This year was the first year that Remko kind of agreed that Timerlier would go to, which, you know, turned out to be great because he won two stages, three. Two stages. Only thing about Tim Rlerler has trouble winning after the first week.

Yeah. This wins tend to come in the first week. So we'll keep an eye on that going in the next year. And then just one more other thing to touch on some recent transfers. just a few things that stood out to me. This is a real funny one that I don't think I've talked to you about. So Viz Malisa Bike, very good team, very good at picking up riders and then they become critical. I think of Victor Campanarts.

He was obviously good. They bring him in. He's now a critical piece of that team. For sure. I would not have considered him obviously to be that. They pick up Felipe Forinelli from VF Group. He is 30 years old. There's not like a young, up-and-coming rider.

Like, what is the, what do they see here that the rest of us do not? I mean, they've done a few of those, you know, like, I think last year, was it last year? At the year, like, really last minute, they signed Julian Vermote, which was who was without contract and used him, like, for the first 100, 120, 150K. I don't know this rider. What do you just talk about? They signed another rider coming from a trade team from Germany, I think. But they also signed Paganzoli, I think, who comes from. Yeah, Davidea Paganzoli.

Yeah, that's a really good rider, really good rider. He's on Team Pulte Visit Malta, which I remember if you watch the, the zero, a very good rider. That's like, well, if you remember VF group, Bardiani, C-S-F, Fianzane, that's where Giulio Pellizari came from. So these are like these teams, you're like, what are these teams? Like, are they any good? Like, they have a lot of good riders on. This team is around, has been around forever, forever. And it's always been, I mean, I know when I was a young professional, that was the dad who was called Bruno Reverberi.

who was always the so it's always the same organization and it's still i think it's his son who's still the manager now is the the manager called riverbedi of of this team vf uh i think it's it's everybody yep it is yeah so yeah it's a team that has been around for a very long time i would say i would say probably yeah close to 30 years They definitely have, Vizma sees something here. You know, like, even think of like Bruno Amaral. He's had a great year. Yeah.

And it's like they scooped him up from DeKathlon. And like I would bet he becomes pretty important for that team. This one is just for me and Patrick Bro. Philippa Zana goes to Sudal Quickstep. I think he's 26 years old, older than I thought on Jaco had a, he thought he thought he was going to Eniose. He thought he's going to get paid a million euros a year, maybe pounds a year. And Dave Relsford came in and said, no, thank you. We are not going to do that.

He then had to find a new contract. He's going to Sidal Quickstep. I kind of like this pickup for Sidal Quickstep, though. They're losing Remco. They're going back towards more classics. But like Zana is a real, he can, he's very good and he can be used in a lot of different ways. No, he's a good writer. He's a good writer for sure.

I think, I think for him to go from, because he was a J-Co, right? So I think initially, so he announced in Jaico that he was leaving. And then when the deal with A&A's didn't happen, he tried to go back to Jacob to say, no, thank you very much. And now it's at Sudal. I mean, it's not necessarily a downgrade. It's kind of an upgrade. It is kind of an upgrade. It's unclear to me why J-Co didn't want to keep him.

I mean, maybe he wanted to come back at a higher price and they didn't want to pay him at that higher price. And then last thing on transfers, Alpason, we mentioned this during the vault that they are losing like a tranche of very good riders. A lot of riders out of contract funding a little unclear, but a lot of their riders that are leaving like Johnny Vermeish, Quentin Hermann's, Edward Plankard, all on the other side of 30. And like especially in the case of like Vermeish and Hermans, like Vermeish has had success. Herman's second at Leage's Best on Leage, probably pretty expensive riders for... Planckart. Blancard also, you know, very, very important in the lead-out train for Philipson. And then there's Timu Kiliich, also who goes to Visma, I think.

Really good rider, by the way. Very good rider. It comes from cyclocross also. But, but yeah, I mean, okay, you know, they do lose, they do lose some important, like, midfield riders. who've been there for quite a bit. And you know, it's just, it's also, I mean, it's public that for the moment, at least as far as I know, the Koenig is ending their sponsorship.

They're looking for a replacement sponsor. They don't have, they haven't found one yet, or at least looks like they haven't secured one yet. And that's probably why they are budget-wise a bit more limited. And then if these guys, 30 plus, you know, like Johnny Vermeers and Quentin, Quentin Hedermans get really good contracts with other teams. Johnny Vermeers goes to Red Bull. Quentin Hedon's goes to Q36.5. They obviously get a huge improvement on their contract, whereas I think with Alpacin,

they probably have kept them at the same contract. They would have renewed their contracts at the same conditions, but not with a huge increase. So they lose in the market, right? But listen, they have invested a lot in Mathieu van der Poole, a lot in Phillips and a lot in Cade and Groves. They have Thibos de Grosso, who's an amazing talent, who they have for multiple years also. I'm not too worried about, I'm not too worried about that team. They will find guys that fill in that gap. There's, they're in that team, Spencer, they're really good at, I'm not too worried about.

having riders on that team and they they go up one or two levels where then you say what where does this guy come from and he's a he's actually pretty good some riders that you have hardly heard of so i'm not too worried about them yeah and it helps i mean yeah what you say is true they have riders go up a level they probably over exceed their like talent and then they get expensive because of that and then they move on and then the the burden on alpison is then to replace them with new riders who then will over exceed their talent. It's kind of an exhausting treadmill, but they are blessed that they're... It also means that they're doing a good job.

I mean, that they're running their team very well. And yeah, I mean, if you look, for example, Johnny Vermeer's has improved over the years. He's in his 30s now, no? Or maybe 30, 31? I think he's 30 years old. Okay. 32, Johnny Vermeish. Blancart.

He's been around for... a while. He's in his 30s, yeah. Okay. And then, yeah, Quentin Hermann's is also not super, super young anymore. He's in his 30s as well. Okay. So it's, I think it's logical that you don't make that special effort to, to improve those unless they were really irreplaceable. And these guys are replaceable. When you get expensive. There's only one rider on Al Pacin that's not replaceable. That's Matthew van der Pooh. I would say yes for Philipson's pretty tough to the place. That's what they thought also when Tim Merleer left, you know? And I mean, Melilier, I mean, I mean, he's better now than when he was at Alpacin.

But it's not that Alpacin got worse when Merlear left. No, but I think that he's very smart retroactively on the team, a smart decision because Tim Merlear is not going to get second at Parade Rebaix twice. No. Like that is, Philipson's very good. Like, he is the preeminent stage,

like stage winner in the modern era and he's also a classics writer. And one Milan Saint-Rémo. Won a monument. Let's not forget that. And two times second in party two-two-bay. It's crazy. So, and then what happens is these guys get expensive.

These guys in our 30s, they have to let them go. And then they recruit from the fertile grounds from which everyone else springs forward, Belgium and they've replaced them with like new soldiers that can follow the orders just like the old soldiers could. It is what big benefit of being in Belgium because you're just, you're sitting in a field of talent and you can just like pluck all these riders, mainly from cyclocross, which they're very good at.

Yeah. They have multiple cyclocross teams. They have Alpsin and they have, then they have smaller teams which are all affiliated. I think I would have to check. I think there's like six or seven teams that fall under the same umbrella, all under the same organization of the Rootov Brothers. It's a good idea. I mean, that's a great place to get. It's a good idea, but I don't, I don't, I have no idea how they manage that.

I mean, it must be exhausting. Yeah. In like shoestring budget situation. Yeah. And then those teams actually, if you look at the cyclocross teams, they're actually on different equipment. They're not all on canyon. They're on, you know, some of them are on different bikes and different, you know, different components. And it must be, yeah, that's quite the organization they're running.

Well, let's take a quick ad break and then we'll talk about promotion, relegation and the time trial really quick. Okay, Jan, we're back. Before we get into the time trial, world championships, promotion relegation, just a quick update. After today, UnoX, I mean, UnoX is very good at picking up these small, like these points and these smaller rates. in these smaller races like tour of Luxembourg, no, not tour of Luxembourg. The sprint race that we were talking about, they get fifth and tenth. And then that is good for 70 points, 70 points, 20 plus 50. And now there were then 16 points of cofittis.

Basically them and cofidus are equal. They will sprint to the end of the season. And whoever has the most points is World Tour maybe and whoever is whoever isn't. is relegated. Probably, definitely, absolutely. Like if COVID is finished too far down, they will be relegated. The only question is,

and you brought this up in the pre-show, it's actually not clear what happens to this 18th the World Tour team spot because Intermarchet is going away. They're getting susumed into Lotto. So those are two World Tour teams. It's possible that there could be

17 World Tour teams, not 18, which would mean neither UnoX or Kofitis this our World Tour theme of the year. Yeah, well, I've spoken to some people also, some, from teams. And the teams actually don't know it either. Right now, it's, you know, there's 18 World Tour teams. One World Tour Team intermarche, the license is not renewed.

You know, the team disappear. So apparently the UCI is not obligated to give that free spot to another. team like team number 19 doesn't automatically become in get in the 18 best teams so it's either 17 teams and four wild cards I guess because the right now it's 18 teams the world tour and the three first teams of the pro team ranking get automatic invites to all the world two races if it's 17 then it becomes four teams which I mean doesn't really matter right because yeah it's the same. I would probably, if I'm in, if I'm there and like struggling to say, am I a world tour, am I not world tour? And I'm confident and good enough. I prefer to be in the pro team lead

two or three because you have automatic right to participate, but you don't have the obligation to participate in all the races, which over the year, there are world two races that are on the calendar and that not necessarily the teams want to go to those races, or some teams don't want to go. And so if you're in the case of Tudor or Q306.5 and, you know, X, if they don't get promoted, if there's a race you don't want to go to, you don't have to. You don't have to do the three-ground tours, for example, which is what Lotto did. Lotto just did the tour and the Vuelta.

They didn't go to the Gero, two years in a row, by the way. It's expensive too. I mean, obviously also if you don't have the necessary riders, I mean, to cover the three ground tours and all the other world two races, it's exhausting. And it's, it's always, there's always going to be a few races where you cannot, you simply cannot field competitive team in all the races unless you're UAE. yeah but even even even teams like visma or you know even red bull or even little track some races you go to because you have to go but they would rather not go because they don't have a competitive team they can send yeah yeah and so i i would guess that they will do 18 world tour teams just because it's more expensive to register as a world i'm not sure you know i mean going back spencer going back to you know a long time ago um And now especially, you know, with the UCI having a French president who's very, very, I would say, facilitating the wishes of ASO, to the France.

I know that the two de France would rather have 16 World Tour teams than 18 because that gives them more room to invite teams. It would still be the same teams probably, but it's in their hands, in their decision, right? So I'm sure that ASO will push for 17 teams and not 18. I'm 100% sure. But whether that's going to happen or not, that's still to be seen. And we should say if they go down, if it goes down to 17, there's not an extra wildcard. It's just the fourth world, the fourth second division team gets automatically invited. Which starts to cave in on itself because that would be co-fitis and co-fidus would probably be a wildcard team.

So it's a little bit of potato potato currently. Yeah, yeah. That spot would just get shifted anyway from pro team to wildcard team. But we'll keep people updated. I'm quite, it's quite interesting to watch this, to watch these teams fighting for these spots.

And it changes the racing more than you'd think. You see teams like just racing for points. If you have to bet today, UnoX or COVID is being the team that if there's 18 teams, the one that makes the step, who is your money on? I would absolutely bet on UnoX for a simple reason, because so far this, if we're talking about from equal footing, they're starting, it's UnoX because so far this year, UnoX has scored almost twice as many World Tour points as co-fidus. So the velocity of them scoring points is so much higher than co-fidish. Yeah. And then I think you saw a few weeks ago also, or maybe a month ago, that Torhussoft.

requested his riders to not go to the world championships to save energy and freshness for the end of the season to score points in because at the world championships it's obviously not easy to score points no no and that's interesting I mean they do have like gc they have guys that could score well in late season stage races yeah like johannison for example yeah I'm going to the world's that's for a reason yeah he's going to focus on one on a stage race or something you know tour of gongji winner right there yeah maybe these i mean it's i think it's do you who do you think i think it's gonna be uno x no unix yeah and they deserve it you know i think they deserve it i think they deserve it right now they um they've been i mean how long does coffee this exist a long time um more than 30 years more than 30 years for sure more than 30 years because in 96 lance had signed a contract with cofidus for 97 and they were already around a couple of years so yeah yeah no listen they uh for the moment uh the way cofidis has performed um they don't deserve to be in the world tour i don't think so now that that's a weird uh alternate

history to think about Lance Armstrong is on cofittes winning the tour to France or what do you not have would cofidus have stopped him from winning the tour kind of a funny thing to think about but Johan the world championships we'll talk about the road race tomorrow the time trial is on Sunday the men's time trial it is it is sneaking up on us um I saw a picture of rimcoevin pole on the course looking at it he looks incredibly fit I have to imagine it's very stressful for the riders on the ground to like keep train you're like in a completely different environment and but you have to keep training through the next week and a half that can't be easy but it's a tough it's a tough time trial it's 40.6 kilometers long which in modern cycling is the longest one they'll do

all year it has one two three four climbs the first one is two point four k long six percent average that's not easy second one is longer about seven k but it's three and a half percent average the third one is 2K long at about 7%. The last one is 1.3K long at 6%. It's cobbled but then the route kind of keeps going up after that. So it's uphill

to the line but it's not class-flict. So it's the same finish as the road race. The last two little climbs. Yes. Yeah. And this is in Kagali, Rwanda. So it's at altitude as well. About, I believe about 1,700 meters, I think.

1,500 something. So the favorite, you would have to think is Remko Evanapult. Another guy that's pretty good is Taday Pagaccio. But I also would not sleep on Jay Vine. I mean, we saw that guy absolutely flying. He comes straight here from the Vuelta. What do you think about this course and who do you think is going to win? Yeah, I think those are the three favorites.

You named them. I think the big favorite. I mean, obviously, Porachar is Porachar, right? You can't put anything past him on a hard course. It's more equal rather than on a flat course against Ramco. But, you know, he comes back from Canada. I think he's still improving. I think he's going to reach his peak or close to his peak for the road race on Sunday.

Not this Sunday, the Sunday after. But I think, I think it's, it's Remko is the big favorite for, for a specific reason. You know, he's been able to specially train for this. He's been, you know, obviously we saw he abandoned the tour and he took some time off. He's, you know, he's trained. He did one race, Tour of Great Britain, which did he finish second into a thing? He finished second. Yeah, second overall.

Yeah. You know, won one stage and has trained. trained, in my opinion is the guy who trained the most for TimeCross, specifically. There's nobody else who did the same kind of training. As I said, Boghachar, best rider in the world, he can win. And Jay Vine, if Jay Vine has a super day, he's probably the biggest, the biggest wild card. you know if you look at losing the time trial with one second to people gana on a flat course but this is more j vine terrain and with that condition from the vulta um he's definitely a big

candidate well the problem yeah j vine he would he would be scary to me if i was a favorite like rimcoe evan a pole i would not want to see him there the only reason i don't think remco is a slam dunk is because, you know, we've seen, like, on these flat, fast courses, Remcoe Evinple's almost unbeatable. The guy is, he flies when the speed is high. But it's some tough climbing. Like, I don't know if he's going to be faster than Jay Vine on some of these climbs. And obviously, that's going to be a problem if he's trying to go faster than him in the race.

Yeah, yeah. But I still think, I still think, I'm going to the World Championship's time problem. When I saw how he looked today, I was, I did think he was going to win. He looks very fit. He looks incredible. I'm excited. This kind of snuck up on me. I didn't realize it was on Sunday, but I'm quite excited to watch it now to see who wins.

Johan, before we go, a kind listener asked me this question in person yesterday on a group ride, Slavic from Boulder. If the teams were reversed, Jonas Findergarde is on. UAE, Juala Amadeh is on Vizma. Everything else stays the same. Is the result the same at the Vuelta, Spain? I think so. I think so.

You know, as I said in the other, in our last podcast, you know, I mean, we did have doubts and questions and criticism about the tactics of UAE, even Jiao Almeida, as after the race said that you know their their work as a team was not perfect far from but what kind of tactic might then my question is what kind of tactic would have changed the outcome of a specific stage you know like the biggest climb was angliu right ameda and vingerard came in together amade up maybe a tiny bit stronger but not strong enough to drop him Then my question is, what kind of teamwork could have been done that would have changed this situation? Because as soon as it was hard, it's the two strongest guys, man against man.

Like, what is it, five, six kilometers together? Yeah. The only thing I could really pinpoint is stage nine, Vizma takes Jonas into the climb, Eunice. He's second wheel, and then his team is like stacked up behind him. So Almeida and Pickhook are so far. from his wheel that when he attacks you know it's like steep at the beginning than not steep that they were basically it's like a screen and basketball like they could screen the other riders off his wheel and that if yonis is not on vizma if he's on uae and he stuck further back

and juel amade is up at the front with a team keeping the pace so high that vindigard can't attack that would be the only thing that is different i feel like you know i mean that's 30 seconds Spencer, you know, that's 30 second. There's still, he wins with more than a minute, right? Yeah, 116. So yeah. So that's 30 seconds. And then on top of that, Spencer, if you reverse the situation, if Vizma does this for

Almeida, you have to ask yourself two questions. First of all, would Almeida have been in a position to follow his teammates because he's not great at the bottom of climbs? It's a very good question. Number one. And then number two, you can, this can account for like, five or ten seconds this positioning and that first but let's not forget that vingerard had to maintain that that that that that difference and stay out there for was it like 7k or something

was far it was it was quite far when he went yeah he did have i mean i i think you're right i think the results are the same i don't want to sound like i'm nitpicking yonis he was on the bumper of a of a motto for a long time though so it was a big advantage to be out front on that stage yeah well no but the answer is i don't think it would have changed the overall result because in the in you know in the main uh stages where the differences were made it was man against man and um angliu there was there were he was not able to shake him whether he was on phisma or on uae i don't think it would have mattered and then on on the last day um UAE was the best team

and Jonas took time yes and it helped Jonas that they were better you know like hurt Almeida helped Jonas the only thing like my addition to this question would be is being on Vizma because I think Jonas would have found a way

like nature finds a way in Jurassic Park like he'll find a way to win he's just a winner but is being on Vizma shaped his mentality in a different way than if Juala Mata's on Vizma, is his mentality completely different? And if Yonis is on UAE, is he mentally different because he's playing second

banana to Tadipa Gensar? Yeah, that's another question. I can't. I mean, I can't. I'm not in the head of these guys, you know, and I don't know them, you know, personally at all on how they are. I mean, to me, it seems like Jonas is, is, you know, feels really good at Vizma, you know, his wife would sometimes say differently.

but I think Jonas feels great there in that atmosphere and he executes the plan. And Almeida feels great at UAE, but seems to be very, very relaxed, very like, you know, okay, you know, we'll try my best. I've done that I can. So be it, right? So maybe, maybe Almeida wouldn't function in the, in the stricter pattern of Visma. I don't know. I mean, I'm just thinking out. Probably correct.

Yeah. That is probably correct because he is very laid back, like shockingly laid back. Yeah. I mean, at least that's how he comes across in the interviews. He's most likely one of the biggest professionals in cycling. You know, it's a guy who trains, does the job, super serious, super focused. But he comes across as really, you know, like, okay, we'll see what happens. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, and I guess the good thing about that is he's not beating himself up about stuff he can't change. Like, Jonas is stronger. Like, what do you want me to do here? I mean, like, that's kind of a healthy perspective to have. I think you're right. Probably the results are the same. Kind of an interesting thing to think about, though.

Anything else, Johan, before we take off? I think we've covered a lot, Spencer, and a lot more to come in the next weeks. Yeah, we'll be back next week to preview the World Championships Road Race. and then we'll be back every week after that. Send your questions to info at we do.com. Thanks, Johan. And we'll be back for the world championships too. Yeah, with the potential all-star lineup on the move for that.

We'll see. We'll do our best.