THEMOVE - Can Seixas Come Back & Is Pogačar Worried About Remco's Power Numbers? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down the first six stages of the Tour Auvergne - Rhône-Alpes (aka Criterium du Dauphiné) and discuss how the upside-down GC situation, with pre-race favorites Paul Seixas and Isaac del Toro over three minutes down to relative unknown Luke Tuckwell, will play out heading into the final two brutal mountain stages. They also go through Remco Evenepoel's recent release of power numbers and debate whether his unorthodox lead-in to the Tour de France will pay off or lead to more stage-racing frustration.  Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/themove, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at https://gusto.com/themove Shipstation: Try ShipStation free for sixty days with Full access to all features, no credit card needed! Go to https://ShipStation.com and use code themove for sixty days for free! Sixty days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. Rugiet Men: Over one hundred fifty thousand men have already made the switch to Rugiet. Getting started is simple. Rugiet connects you with a board-certified doctor online and your treatment gets shipped discreetly to your door. For a limited time only, head to https://Rugiet.com/THEMOVE to get 15% off your order. Decagon: Ready to transform your customer support? Go to https://decagon.ai/THEMOVE to get a personalized demo and see what Decagon can do for your team. OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code THEMOVE at https://www.oneskin.co/THEMOVE  #oneskinpod

But, you know, Van Gilles broke his pelvis there. Don't know if had surgery or not, but anyway, breaking your pelvis is a serious, serious injury. And coming back from this first race back, Dofine, he said he was 24 days at altitude with the team and with Remko. And that Remko had made him suffer a lot and that now he is feeling in great shape, the best shape in his career, he says. So, you know, whoever is injured and is several months out, I know.

I know. Don't lose your hope because, look, here's another example of a guy who was out, hasn't raised since the beginning of the season and was in the best shape. I mean, those are his own words. Jonathan Narvice in the Giro. Same thing. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin.

I'm here with Johan Berniel. We are wrapping up. We're reviewing talking about stage six of the fake dofinae, the dauphinet that used to be just finished with Maxian Van Hills, getting his first win and his first race back since breaking his hip, a classic high end earlier this year. We'll go through how the G.C. is playing. I kind of an interesting, more interesting than I thought G.C. situation will get

Johan's take on that with Luke Tuckwell from Red Bull Borough, taking the race lead by more than three minutes over Pre-Rate's favorite Paul Sixos. We'll also go over a little bit of news and how this race and a few of the kind of unfortunate incidents and dropouts will affect the tour de France. But first, Johan, we got an episode of the move on the move. You're not at home right now. Where are you? Looks like you're in a palace, actually. I'm not at home.

Neither are you. I see Spencer. No, I'm in Marrakech, Morocco. came here to ride bikes with a friend who has a very nice place here. He invited me. So today was our first ride very early in the morning because unusually I always leave at 10 a.m. but here you have to leave like at 630, 6.45 in the morning to have some time that it's cool enough to ride. But yeah, I'm here.

I'm here for a few days. And where are you? I'm equally equally luxurious place I'm in Zone 4 London so if you see me if you see me out of Richmond Park

I'm on probably Richmond is a beautiful place I'm in maybe on the least picturesque street and all of Richmond the crap part of Richmond but we're close to the park we have to be in London for a few months but if you see me out at Richmond Park

Hernhill Velodrome say hello it's the opposite of the weather situation you're having I'm not sure if it's going to crack 30 degrees. Actually, I shouldn't say that. It's been cool, but in London, you want it to be cool because you know as a former Londonite yourself, Johan, it can get hot. And it is maybe the worst feeling in the world when it's 30 degrees plus. Yeah.

It is crazy. It's very unbearable when it's really hot. So you're close to Richmond Park. So there's plenty of cyclists there. So you can go on group rides basically whenever you like, no? Yeah, it's Richmond Park. It's almost a non-consensual group ride. You go out there anytime of the day, you're in a group ride.

You're in a race, basically. It is madness in that park. And it's not easy. It's not an easy loop. It's quite hard. I mean, it's quite hard. Yeah. It's a good loop.

I think kind of this whole Kingston, Richmond corridor, there's quite a bit of cycling culture here. I guess it was featured because the Olympic road race in 2012 came up through Richmond Park before it finished. And the time trial started just south, started finished right south. of Kingston and Hampton Court. So it is kind of cool how it has a cycling, deep cycling culture out here. Yeah.

Did you take your bike or are you renting a bike there? I do have a bike with me. I brought. Oh, you brought your bike. I don't know. I brought a disc brake or not sorry, a rim braked bike because it is easier to travel with, like significantly easier. That's true.

That's true. Yeah. You know, I, you know, every time you travel with a bike with rim brakes, you always, you know, like cross your fingers that when you. put the wheels back in that the discs are not going to rub. And if you're not a specialist, you know, I am I am absolutely not. I have no clue about, you know, fixing this brakes. It's, it's, it's a, it's a hassle, you know. So that's that's that's smart. That's a good idea. Travel with a rim break break. Yeah. I think we both we have the I have this like wonderful

psychon bag that you can just put the bike into but with the family got to fit everything in the car. I have to pack it into a smaller bag. So it's easier to do with an older bike. I also have an issue with, because I live around 2,000 meters, when I travel with the disc brake bike, the brakes function differently because I think the hydraulic pressure is differently is different based on like if you go from 2,000 meters to 5 meters in London. Like it just adds a different pressure to it. That's my theory. I had never thought about that. But okay. Well, anyways, we're we're here.

You know, we're both in remote places, but we're here for our move. listeners and audience. So let's, let's go over. What's it called? Overnor-Overn-R-Ape. I just can ask you.

What's the name of this race? Well, they are using, I think I'm going to this region. Yeah, I think I'm going to keep calling it Dauphine until, yeah, I mean,

it's not, I mean, the thing is they do not, they do not actually enter in the Dauphine region at all. Yeah. During the whole, during the whole race. So, you know, Doffinet was formerly called Doffini Liberet, the name of the organizing newspaper. So that's all, that's all finished since ASO took over.

But anyways, important race, Spencer, you know, usually the big race before the Tour de France preparation race, but also like it's a hard race, you know, and hilly stages. And this is not, this is no different. And I think it's, it's an interesting development, no. And I assume they got paid to do the name like this. That's why the dofinae wasn't, they didn't race in the dofina, the dofinae wasn't shelling out. For sure. For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. We respect people getting paid. So I've been, I look at the elevation every day for this race. And not a lot has happened before today, but it is hard. So stage one, over 3,000 meters of elevation. And if you're watching it, it's also only televised for the last two hours. So you'd flip it on.

You'd probably say like, oh, it's just little breakaways away. There's a little GC split happening. Oscar Anley gets away with Kevin Valklan. They get 12 seconds on the rest of the GC guys, which is actually more significant than you think because there's no time bonuses of this race, which is strange. I haven't seen that in a major race for a long time. The second day, and then Alex Bowdoin from EF won that stage and took the yellow jersey

and everything was cagey because there's a third stage team time trial. So everyone's kind of waiting for the team time trial. stage two. This is crazy. 234 kilometers. It's like a monument, Johan, with 3,700 meters of elevation gain. That might be the longest stage in a one week race I've maybe ever seen. That's ridiculous. And so obviously, no one's going to control that with the team timetrail the next day.

No major teams are going to send a rider in the breakaway. Uno X, who Tobias Holland, Johansson, the GC guy was dropped on stage one. They get the break. They win the day. pretty impressive. Like they seem to just be able to circle these days that they want to get in the break and win. Team Time trial comes around.

And I, there's Perry Nice rules, which we're going to see at the tour. And it's so instead of the normal team time trial rules where I believe it was time from the fifth rider, fourth rider, fifth rider, something like that.

Fifth rider. Nobody. Yeah. Everyone gets their own time. So in theory, if you were the best time trialist in the world and everyone on your team was terrible, you could just leave them and go,

and go finish. But it adds, I think it has a super interesting component. And they add uphill finishes. So if you have two leaders, you both want to be there. You can kind of see the leaders racing each other on the uphill finish. But team Visa Melissa bike wins. Wow, Van Arte dropped early, early finishes over five minutes back. I mean, we talked on the phone yesterday.

Wow, Van Arte getting dropped in a team time trial. That's unthinkable. And then we found out that he had a crash and training leading into this was not himself. That's very not himself. and probably will affect the team at the tour. Mateo Jorgensen wins the stage. Net company, Ennio's second, nine seconds back, Oscar-onle, Kevin Valklon, finish same time.

They had this issue with dropped chains. They were dropping chains all over the course. Oscar-only dropped his chain. I believe it was a one-by. So it's kind of weird they're getting dropped chains on that. And they wait for him. He does get the chain back on pretty quickly. Vaklan wants to keep going.

He's like motioning, like, let's keep going. They do wait for him, which that's got to be the right move. I can't imagine that would look bad if he was just dangling, waiting for his team, wanting this team to wait for him, and they were riding away from him. I think so, Spencer. I think at that point in the race, the stage three.

It's clear that there's two leaders. But let's not forget that only is on paper, the better climber of the two, finished Ford in the Tour de rounds last year. And this is basically the race where they come back into action after training camps. And, and, you know, both of those riders will be the leaders for, for the tour of Ineos or net company now.

So I think it was the right call. At that point, you have to wait, especially if it's, you know, it's, it's a drop chain. It's not like you have to get off the bike, fix it, get back on. He could do it. He could do it while he was on the bike. A bit surprised, however, that, you know, they have multiple issues, the same issue. So that's not a great, another great look for a professional team like net company in Aos. But I mean, mechanical problems can happen, of course. But if it's several the same ones,

there's obviously something wrong. I think it was, you know, Vocelan was frustrated. But, you know, the guys in the car who made the call to wait for only think was the right thing to do. I mean, do you have a protocol before team time trial? Like if a leader has a mechanical, obviously, if a leader gets dropped and there's two leaders, you probably just leave them. But if they're getting dropped, you probably wait for it. It also depends. It also depends on the situation where it is in the stage. You know, if it's in the first half, if it's in the last 10K and, you know, I don't know, I mean, or if it's in the last 5K, for example, and you're in the running for winning the stage, then a,

A call needs to be made on the go. Say, okay, let's just risk it. And we'll just go for the stage win, right? But I don't think they were in the running, actually. I mean, maybe they were close. Yeah, they were close. Yes, this is where Vaklon. You can catch.

So they were up. They were up big. They actually lost Sam Watson, I think, to a drop chain. And they still were taking time, a man down. I calculated it lost. It cost him about 15 seconds waiting for him. and they lose the stage by nine. So, you know, maybe, maybe they could have won the stage.

But, but, yeah, but, you know, you're ultimately, you know, as a team, a team like in Eos, they're, they're there to, you know, with another goal. They're there with two leaders, you know, to do the last preparations for the tour and try to have a good G.C. For the confidence of both riders, of course, also. So I think, I think that that's what they should have done, the weight, like they did. So I can't criticize that decision. Vocalin will have disagreed, but it looks today,

it looks like Vocalins is not going to podium in the Dofine after his performance of today. I mean, he was not bad, but he was not up there with the best five or ten riders. So, yeah, unfortunately, it turned out that Oscar only crashed today and that they'll you know is out of out of the gc and then hopefully not out of the race but you know at that point you can't know what's going to happen two or three days later right yeah and at the time they Oscar only leaves the stage with a big lead over paul six

sesos and a little bit of a lead over jorgensen a big lead over del toros so in theory like what we're going to the mountains we got got a lead on these guys. I mean, who's to say? Maybe they can't take a minute back on us. So I think you have to do it. And also, do you want the yellow jersey? For Kevin Volklawn, it's a big deal.

For net company, Ineos, I don't know if they really, because EF has had to do a lot of work on the front. Yeah. I mean, obviously for EF, it was great to have the jersey, especially for Bodin, who was also Alex Bodin, who was a French writer. So for him, the highlight of his season, you know, winning that stage, being in yellow,

defending it in a team time trial that was that was a really good performance of of EF but yeah I mean I think ENAeos if they could have taken the jersey they would have they would have done it you know they're not they're not that rich in victories I would say to say you know what

we don't care we'll just let the jersey to someone else because we're going to take it later on the race that that's you neos is not in that kind of situation yeah and something NEOS talks about a lot that I you know, it's just one of these things you don't know, like unless you've been in it. Practicing having the jersey is really important. You know, if you're one of these guys like me or Benji or Patrick and you're on the outside, you're like, yeah, whatever, right? Just get on

the front and ride, guys. But I bet that does make a big difference because if you've, if you've never had a jersey as a team, you don't know how to defend the jersey. So it is important to get the jerseys at some point to then defend them. Stage four was it's just been a funky race because a lot of these stages are so hard and very hard to control. So stage four was, again, 2,300 meters of climbing. It was kind of one of the most straightforward stages in the race. And it was a breakaway win. The breakway didn't really ever, it took a long time to get away, never had a big gap.

Quinn Simmons is in there with nine other riders. And he, everyone assumed Finn Fisher Black was going to win this sprint. Finn Fisher Black is a very good rider. He's not, he's not, yes, per philip. I didn't quite understand the unanimous thought that he was going to win. Quinn Simmons wins the sprint after pulling quite a bit. They also got lucky that Pablo Castrillo from, he's on Movistar. He was famously on Kern Farma and won multiple stages at the vault of few years ago.

But he was pulling really hard in that move. They had a tailwind. They stayed away by four seconds. Wow, Van Arp wins the like the sprint behind. So in theory he misses out. But Quinn Simmons, it's his first win. I think since Swiss last year and then after the stage you said.

It's through Switzerland, yeah. Yeah. He knows how to pick his stage wins, you know? Yeah. He knows how to pick his wins. Definitely. I mean, I'm going to assume, I mean, it's not his first win.

I mean, it's his first World Tour win since then. Because after Switzerland, he did win the Nationals before the tour, right? I think. Well, I think it was inverted last year. So he wins the Nationals in May and then win Switzerland. Okay. Okay.

And now, now, now it's. changed. Now, now the nationals in the US are coming up now. Right before the tour. It's insane. Yeah. Why would you do that? It's at the same time as all the other nationals, but, you know, the advantage is you have to trip. You have the trip, you know, and the jet lag and the time difference. Well, when does Australia have their nationals, Johan? Yeah. In January. In January. Why would the US just not do that? I don't understand any of this. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, uh, I think it was a great win of Quinn Simmons. You know, when that guy, man, when he has his day, he's so strong.

Like, you know, I think everybody in that breakaway felt that he was unbelievably strong. And then he was one of the driving forces of that breakaway and still manages to win it. I mean, I would say quite comfortably in the sprint. Very dominant. It didn't really look in doubt to me. Yeah, very, very dominantly. You know, his interview afterwards was also very confident. You know, he kind of knew he was, he had it in the legs.

So of course, I think, you know, I mean, I think Quinn Simmons is in a different position this year than last year. I think last year in Switzerland is after Dauphine. So he had to wait to win that stage. And then finally, Little track, they couldn't do anything but take him to the tour after that. And that was also a very impressive stage when last year, I remember. It was a really hard stage, but he won. So I think he's in a different position now. I think he has his spot secured in the Tour de France theme already before the Dauphine.

But, you know, there's always uncertainties, right? There's always maybe 10 or 11 candidates for eight places. So it doesn't hurt if you have that, you know, stage win in the bag and say, hey, okay, you know, you need to take me because I'm winning races and I'm in great shape. And I think for Quinn Simmons, that's, that's, both of those conditions are fulfilled. You know, he's in great shape. He was again in the break today, by the way. Yeah, and he was looking strong in the break.

Yeah. And yeah, I mean, looks to me like, I mean, who can beat him in the nationals? Is it the hard course? Is it the same course as always? They switched every couple of years. The U.S. national situation is a disaster. But yeah, he's going to win it. Nobody can beat him.

Well, you never know. You never know he's going to win it. Listen, winning is different. everywhere, you know, even if it's lower level. If you're the big favorite, it's not easy. It's not easy. You know, you have to be like the strongest by far to win as the outright only favorite. So he might win it. I mean, I think he considers this jersey to be his like for as long as he races probably. I mean, so it would be nice if he can repeat. It would be the third time, right, if he wins?

Would it be his third title? Yeah, I'm going back through. Yeah, he won in 2023. Yeah. And it was in Knoxville. And then the Charleston course is like perfect for him. It's hard to imagine. And also, you know, doing the Tour de France in your national champion jersey is, is always very special.

I mean, frankly, it's great for his brand. Like to be, to have his hair, to have his look and to have the jersey, he does stick out. It's like just cynically. I think he should do it. But Johan, is it a good idea? No one's going to beat him at this race because no one's going to do this race because it's June 21st the week before the tour to France. And he has to fly.

He flew to France for this race. He's flying back to the U.S. to race system, flying back to France for the tours. That's a good idea. It looks like he's got this dialed in, this traveling and stuff. I mean, it's also, it's hard on the body. But, you know, he's young. Recovery is pretty good.

If he's not great in the first two, three stages, that's fine in the Tour de France. I think also for, especially for a company as Trek, you know, which is still a big part of the team. I think it's important to have the stars and stripes in the team for their brand, right? So I would, I would guess that track is obviously supporting or maybe asking, I'm not going to say demanding, but asking Quinn Simmons to participate in the national championships. that would be my guess. Yeah. I mean, clearly does not enjoy being in Europe.

I think he said in his post-race interview, he's like, I think I'm doing well because I've spent minimal time in this country. It's like, geez, that's like, that's not, that's, I mean, I don't, I don't think that's, there's no truth to that because, you know, if, if 95% of the calendar of professional cycling is in Europe, I think you should be here basically all the time. It seems to work for him. You know, I think he, he races, the races that he has selected. And he enjoys training in the States. I think he does quite a bit of altitude. He's not training a lot in New Mexico or? Yeah, well, that's the weirdest thing about this.

He's very, like, big into altitude training in Tucson and New Mexico and Colorado. Yeah. He does go to New Mexico a lot because it is good altitude training. But then before the biggest race of the year, he's disrupting altitude to go. So, I mean, I think, yeah, he's, I guess like we've decided he's got to win the jersey because that's important for him, important for the team. So he's got to do it. But that is disruptive to your altitude preparation for the tour. Yeah.

That would be what I worry about. Because if he's on a business class flight with no kids, with no two kids to take care of, it's pretty easy. Like, when I flew over to London just the other day with the kids felt terrible. But when we did that show in Belgium, I felt fine. You know, like it is, if you really take it seriously, he can. I'm not sure he can make it work. Stage five the next day was very straightforward while Vinart wins the sprint. I don't know if you watched this, but he didn't leave the, he didn't leave the, he looked

like a cat one racing and cat five race. He was in the top four positions for the last 10K, you know, like didn't move, was in the perfect position for the sprint. It looked, dare I say, easy for him. And then he drops out of the race saying they did start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Complications from with his elbow from a crash in training, which. I was surprised to see that. He started, I mean, we were all a bit surprised that he had difficulties in the first three stages, including in the team time trial. But then we found out about this crash, right, in training on his time trial bike. Walt said something about it that he was his own fault. He didn't pay attention. crashed. Turns out that so he wins stage five, which everybody thinks, I mean, I thought, okay, you know, it's good.

You know, he's back. you know, at least his motivation will be great. It's never easy to win a stage, although the sprinters, the big sprinters are not here. So, I mean, Walt Von Art in theory, should win that sprint. But, and then this morning decided to not start. And then the reports are that the elbow is swollen without too much of an explanation. Sorry. And I'm speaking French here.

So it's explication. explanation. But if I see the comments, I saw comments of one of the support directors, I'm kind of worried. I'm kind of worried that there's going to be something else that could be, you know, a small hairline fracture or something because if it's swollen. That's, you know, there's something there. I think it's the right call. I mean, if you listen, if you're injured then you have this issue with your elbow. It makes no sense to do these last three mountainous stages, right? Definitely not for a result for Von Art.

I mean, you could say if he's healthy, then he can do those stages and work on his condition. But it seemed that I think that the crash has had a bigger impact than everybody expected, including Van Art himself. And I think that explains kind of also his, you know, not so good performance in the first three stages. Yeah, it's something to worry. I mean, worried for Van Arta,

and it's worrisome also for Visma because having Van Art or not having Van Art on the Tour de France team, that makes a big difference, a huge difference. Yeah, if he's not, if he's there and he's on it. It also stinks for us. I love like, that's a tradition now. Well, I mean, especially for your son, no? Your son is like the biggest walk of an art fan, right? Yeah, I kept asking me.

He's like, did you know what? was going to win. I was like, I didn't know, but he keeps asking me all day to day. He's like, is out going to win any of these other stages? I'm like, uh, probably not because he's not at the race, but we're not going to tell you that. Um, but no, yeah, devastating for the household, devastating for the move crew. I mean, I just, I enjoy watching them. But yeah, this is not good for Fisma, you'd imagine before the tour. He's, he plays such an important part on that team. Um, and if they don't win, it's, it's kind of crazy to think they don't, well, they don't win the overall, but they can count on Wout for a stage win.

That's not easy to do, just show up and win a stage at the tour. But he usually pulls through. Let's take a quick break, Johan, and then we'll talk about today's stage six. Yeah, also, I mean, speaking of Visma, Spencer, am I mistaken or have I forgotten this? Is Lapport also out for the majority of the season? That is such a good question, because he's been nowhere after being really good. I think he's out.

Right. Out with quadricepterre crash and training. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those two riders, Van Art and La Porte for the Tour de France team, you know, for positioning, riding in the bunch with Jonas, team time trial, two really big engines. Those are two guys that they're going to miss if they're. I mean, I'm not, I don't want to get ahead of the things. I mean, it looks like LaPorte is not making it for sure. But I hope I hope one art can make it to the tour and in good condition because remember last year that he started the Gero and he was also struggling at the beginning of the Gero and finally ended up winning a stage. But it, you know, he was not good in the beginning of the Gero. Yeah, you're right. Do you know, like it's hard to explain to people how good you have to be.

Yeah. To show up, be out of shape and then win a stage. Not only to win a stage, But at the zero, he beats Isaac Deltoro in the most iconic stage of that race. Like that is an insane level of talent. Like almost incomprehensible because the rest of us are just getting worse and worse and worse. Laporte has raced 15 times this year and finished outside the top 10, three times. So he's been very good this year. That's a huge blow for them to not have them.

But let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk about today's stage. Yeah. Everybody, this episode is brought to by one skin. The summer riding season is here, which is why I've continued to rely on OneSkin, because my skin's going to get pounded by that sun in the heat. And at the core of One Skin's product is a patented OS1 peptide, born from over a decade of longevity research, and is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. My favorite product that I've been using the summer is the OS1 face sunscreen, which is incredibly easy to put on every morning. And outside of moisturizing, make sure I get the right sun protection from the moment I'm.

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It's the dophene, the fake dofine, whatever we're calling it these days. It started with the mountain stage. I embarrassingly did not know that, but it held true to its tradition that it always kind of is a slow simmer. And then the last three days, it blows open. Usually the last weekend is when it blows open. Today was the first of the mountain stage. It was funny dynamic because we had the big pre-race favorite, Paul Sixthus,

falling back in the GC, almost no fault of his own. You know, he kind of missed the move on stage one when those guys got away. Like, ideally you're in that because they gained 12 seconds. And without time bonus is 12 seconds is a lot. Like, think the difference between first and second in the team time trials nine seconds. So if you could get that, those time trial gains are going to cost you a lot of money. So 12 seconds are not something you want to throw on the side of the road.

He has a, his team doesn't have a great team time trial. Same thing with Del Toro. So you have the two strongest riders falling down the GC standings, but not because they're racing poorly. It's kind of a perfect, actually a perfect dynamic in terms of entertainment and for the race. So stage six comes along. It's a pretty, I thought a pretty simple stage. It meet with my naivete because it's two categorized climbs in the middle of the stage and then two climbs to finish the stage.

And it's kind of flat alpine valleys in between. It's like this area around Geneva and Albertville. It's like these big alpine valleys with mountains around them. We don't see it, but a 60 rider breakaway gets away. So when the TV turns on and there's four Red Bulls, there's four unoxes and they are driving this break hard. There's a lot of teams driving this break with multiple riders up there. When the TV comes on, I'm just looking at my notes right here, so I have it right. I think it's a three and a half minute gap and decathlon's on the front.

So there's not really anyone in this move that you're that concerned about except Luke Tuckwell, who's a 21-year-old kind of unproven climber on Red Bull. But then by the time, I guess this is why you don't let a 60 rider move go because by the time they get to the final climb, the gap's five minutes. Ennio comes to the front. I don't know if you ever really want to make the race harder for Paul Success, but that's what they do. Unfortunately, their leader, Oscar Unley crashes out on the descent,

and they had a writer Josh Charlene in the move who broke his collarbone before the TV came on. But Onley crashes out on, it's a short descent. It may be three minute descent in between the two climbs. I don't think they realize it because they have Dorian Godin go on the front. like blowing the race up. It drops all of the Cathon riders. What did you say on our live show in Belgium, though? Once these guys are isolated, they attack.

So Paul Sikos says, oh, my team's not here. I'm going to go really hard. He just goes to the front and just rides hard. Like there's nothing more to it than that. Drops everybody except at a point. It was him, Jorgensen and Del Toro. Jorgensen gets dropped at 1.5K to go. I thought he's out of the contention.

But Sechoss kind of pulls off. He doesn't like. Deltoro on his wheel. He slows up and makes Deltoro come through. Deltoro paces to the finish. I tend to think they were watching each other, not going all out because Jorgensen only finishes 13 seconds back. Yeah.

Yeah, still. But I think obviously they were watching each other. But anyways, first, let's go back to the 60-man breakaway, right? As a team and especially, I think this is obviously also the price that Dekathlon and especially takes us or paying with this hype and this huge favorite role that takes us is, I'm not going to say pushed into because he likes it and the way he gives interviews, he considers himself as, I mean, and rightfully so, he's a huge talent. But, you know, the way he's been giving interviews is like, you know, okay, I'm winning this race. I'm the best here. And it doesn't really

matter what happens in these stages. I'm going to make up that time, which is still possible. but dude you're not the only one in this race you know so that's the cost of having this big talent that nobody was everybody was looking at decathlon to do the work and if there's 60 riders up front with as you say several three four teams with three or four riders in today's cycling with teams of seven riders in these one week stage race you're screwed I mean there's nothing you can mean this because there's four riders who can work, right? And it's not going to be your four best riders that are work because you need to save the two best riders to stay with the leader for the final of the race. So it's your four,

I mean, you know, weakest, so to say, riders that have to do the pulling. If you don't get any help, it's game over. You know, it's like, I think luckily they could limit, I mean, initially with the work of Deccatlin and then the development of the race, it came back to a, around three minutes, right? But, but, man, 60 men, if you have nobody in there, there's nothing you can do as a team. You cannot correct the situation. You just have to hope that, first of all, in front,

a big group is usually not the best situation for a perfect, perfect collaboration. But if there are teams in there who believe in their leaders, then they have three or four riders, then there's going to be a lot of rhythm in that. then secondly you have to hope that you're not going to be alone in the pursuit as the team with the big favorite. It's always good if you're not the only favorite, then you have help, which I mean, I haven't seen that part of the stage, but it seems to me like they didn't get a lot of collaboration initially to keep that breakaway under control, breakaway 60 rider.

I mean, half of the Peloton. Yeah, it's like a Peloton, you know. Yeah. So these races are not easy to control, man. And, you know, since the times it's been a few years now already, but, you know, since the teams have gone down from eight to seven in one-week races and in big stage races from nine to eight riders per team, it makes it a lot more difficult to control as a team. We don't seem to see this as much when the big guys are here. Like, it's hard to imagine this happening at the tour with Pagachar and Venegard. Yeah.

But when they leave, stuff gets crazy. I mean, the zero, you would say, was the opposite of wonky. Nothing weird happened. I think of the zero before without Vinegard and Yon. Sorry, Vineyard and Bagachar, it was crazy. You know, it's like everything just breaks, reality caves in on itself when those guys aren't around. It was kind of a weird, as you say, a big breakaway generally gets no, you see a big

break away and you say, this isn't going to work because they're not going to work together. It's just like, don't even worry about it. This is a little different because there was teams like Red Bull and Unox and. FDJ who just seemed their whole purpose was just driving it as hard as they could. I'd assume UNUX kind of gets Holland Johansen back in GC. He's right now he's sitting 12, 3 and a half minutes back. But it seemed like they really thought he could win the stage. He looked incredibly disappointed not to win the stage.

But think if you're Red Bull, it's worth it. You put four guys up there. They're drilling it. They win the stage. And now they have the yellow jersey. And they're going up against. Plus, initially, they didn't come with one of the big favorites. You know, like Tuckwell is now in the lead.

And, you know, he's going to stay up from him. I mean, I don't know if he's going to win the Dauphiné or not, but, you know, he's going to stay up there. He's a good climber. So he's definitely going to have a good classification. But today they were riding for the stage win initially. And man, what a nice way to come back for Maximum Van Hills, right? first race back after his dramatic crash in February, I guess. It was the, what was it called?

Chayen, Chayen Valparaiso. Yeah. Gravel-ish-ish race. Yeah. It was a crash with Young Kristen, I think, if I remember. Yeah, John Kristen, like maybe feared. Yeah. He crashed.

Well, he actually got disqualified, I think, for that maneuver. But, you know, Van Gilles broke his pelvis there. Don't know if you had surgery or not, but anyway, breaking your pelvis is a serious, serious injury. And coming back from this first race back, Dauphine, he said he was 24 days at altitude with the team and with Remko. And that Remko had made him suffer a lot and that now he is feeling in great shape, the best shape in his career, he says.

So, you know, whoever is injured and is several months out. I know. Don't lose your hope because, look, here's another example of a guy who was out. Hasn't raised since the beginning of the season and was in the best shape. I mean, that's his, those are his own words. Jonathan Narweiss in the Giro. Same thing. Yeah.

Hadn't race in two down under. You know, I don't think Narweiss has ever been in a better shape than in the Gero until he crashed, unfortunately, in the final stages. But nice win for Van Gilles, I think. And great day for Red Bull, man. I mean, they are in the lead. This writer, Tuckwell is, I'm sure that nobody talked about him before the Dofine. But let's not forget, this guy was sixth in Tour of Romandie already this year.

So you have to be a good climber. I think it's his first year, full year as a pro. I mean, I'm not really sure, but I do remember that last year he did the Gero next gen as an under 20. He's only 21. So I'm assuming he was not on the World Tour team yet. And he was leading. He was in the Malia Rosa until the last stage. He lost it on the last stage.

So good climber. Now with this jersey on his back, he may be a tough client man he may be a very tough client although i do think that the two stages that we're going to have now in the weekend are super hard a really hard climbs and and it's still it's still possible for tuckwell to lose the jersey and for i would say del toro and se chas because i can't see anybody else than those two riders winning the dauphiné if it's not tuckwell well and it's all gravy for red bull right it's like if lukewell tookwell loses the Ophene. You're not saying, oh, my God. How did this happen? Like, it's, if he wins,

that's fantastic. If he doesn't win, that's also fantastic. So that's, I mean, that, that is a big benefit, especially as you say that everyone knows, everyone, it's not a secret that I love Paul success. I get a lot of messages about that I love him too much, that it's inappropriate. But like, it is kind of crazy to me that there's a double parienese winner sitting 32 seconds in front of him. A double parianese winner who's in the prime of his career, by the way, who's not washed up, Mateo Jorgensen, 32 seconds in front of him. And he doesn't see in his interviews, he doesn't seem to register this at all. Like, yeah, I think, you know, we, we are watching it from a distance, right? I mean, the riders themselves, they know by now what the strength

differences are in this race. They know, okay, I'm stronger than this guy. I'm going, okay, always assuming that you're going to recover properly from the day before. And then I personally think in Seizsas head, he's the favorite. He feels he feels in great shape. And he knows that he's going to take those 32 seconds back on Mateo Jorgensen in his mind without a problem. And I think, I think so too, because if on today's climb, Matthew Jorgensen was not able to stay with with Seixos and Del Toro. What we have tomorrow and on Sunday, he's going to lose more time. Also having in mind that Seizsas and did definitely not go full gas.

I mean, he was not like going full gas because he was wary of Del Toro being there and expecting a counterattack. So there's nobody better than the riders who know where their level is. And I think that's why Seixas has this. confidence. I think he needs to be the only guy he needs to be, I mean, two guys he needs to be worried about. First of all, Tuckwell. If Tuckwell overperforms in the yellow jersey, they're both there, everybody's screwed. Because three minutes are three minutes. And this guy's no, you know, he's, he's a, he's a good climber. And then Del Toro, del Toro looked to me today like

he was really, really in control. I'm not going to say comfortable, but he was never, not even a single moment on the verge of getting dropped from Sexas. It looks comfortable. You know, that's also his style of DeL Toro. It looks super smooth. But, yeah, I think it's going to be between Del Toro and Sexas. Del Toro is obviously behind Sexas and G.C because of, I don't know what happened with their team time trial, but they didn't do a great team time trial, UAE.

but still it's you know what is it 30 seconds difference between del toro and sex us oh no no it's only uh i think it's less than that now i've lost my about 30 25 30 seconds i think i think it's 16 seconds because okay sexos is 306 del torres 322 okay which the perfect time to break take our last break is i'm going to tell you why this helps luke well everybody this episode is brought to by ShipStation. Some of you might not be aware, but this show has a great merch store at Wedo. Team. New designs coming soon. And while we love making cool clothes for our listeners, fulfillment can be a total pain. That's why we've hooked up with Ship Station. With ShipStation,

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first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash the move. gusto.com slash the move tried out today. So with success, he's, you know, it's a lead, 16 seconds in front of Del Toro, who I agree with you. I thought he looked silky smooth today. It looked incredible. And it seemed like Sixthos was not willing to fully commit because like you say, he doesn't want to get attacked without time bonuses. This is, it starts to get kind of interesting because you can't just go to the line with someone and out sprint them and immediately really get, you know, a four second or six second or 10 second sock of time. It's like you got to earn that time on the road.

He does not want to expose himself because then El Toro is going to attack him. If these guys are watching each other and if we assume they're roughly the same strength, which it kind of look like today, how do they get Luke Tuckerwell back? Like they have a lot of time to get on them. They have to be aggressive. They have to be aggressive. And, okay, it's too hard. stages, right? Tomorrow's 3,700 meters plus and then on Sunday it's 4,000 meters. So big mountain stages.

But three minutes is three minutes. It's a lot. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, listen, I would say del Toro and especially Seixas, they're definitely of a higher level right now than young Luke Thakwell. I mean, oh, okay, Sexas is younger, no, then he's 20, no? He's 20 or 19 still? Tuckwell's 21. No, no. He's a veteran. Six, he's 19 years old. He's two years younger than Luke Tukwell.

We have 19. How old is Del Toro? 21. Oh, he's washed up. No, he's like 22 or something. Let me say. 22. He's 22.

So Del Toro's old. Oh, my God. I can surprise they renewed him. 19, 21, and 22 years old. Those are the three riders who are going. One of them is going to win the Gophonet. That's not an aberration, by the way. That tells you where, I mean, the World Cup just kicked off last night.

The best player in the World Cup is 19 years old. You know, like this is not, this is like a thing that's happening. Who is it? Who is it? Who is it? You know, Yamal. Jamil Lamal. Jamil Lamal.

Jamil Lamal. Yeah. Yeah, he's the bad. He's a little unfortunate. He's a little hurt. But he led basically Spain to a Euro's title. two years ago when he was like 16 or 17 years old. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How old is you? How old is he? Have you seen this crazy picture of him where he's a baby? He's 18. He's a baby being held. He's 18 right now.

So he led Spain to a Euro's title when he was 16. Yeah. So people think Paul Seixos is too young. Look at this guy. But he's a baby and he's being held by, because he's from Barcelona, by Messi. who was playing for Barcelona at the time. Like, it's an insane picture. It'd be like if Lance was holding a baby Pagaccha or something in a photo.

Nuts. Yeah, it's possible. I mean, it's definitely possible. But it makes you feel for these, like, if you're an older writer, like, what the heck am I supposed to do against these kids? But I am. There are examples, plenty of examples of guys who, you know, who, still do it, you know, in their late 20s, in their 30s, close to 40.

What were we just talking about somebody last episode? Like a 29-year-old on George's team, Ben Oliver. Yeah, Ben Oliver, yeah. Yeah. Coming from a really like a lower level competition and then, you know, being in the big league now and winning races. Yeah. It's up for debate.

I think. So who's your pick to win to win the Dauphine? I was going to say this is a good question because the Dauphini gets, it gets funky in the last week. Like do you remember when Andrew Chalansky beat Contador? Yeah, but that's that's different. That's different cycling. That's different cycling. Like Jakop Fulsang beat Ritchie Ports.

I think, I think it pains me to say it even though. Didn't Danny Martinez win. Yes. Like I can say like also the last stage. or like a big up hill finish. 2020 was maybe the craziest last stage. I mean, we didn't know what we were watching then, but we were watching cycling change basically where it just was an insane.

It was one of these first races back from COVID and it was all out, like all day. Yeah, yeah. Tom Dumlin was fifth. It's like a sub four hour day through the mountains, Mejave to Mejave. And Tom Dumlin's probably thinking, I got to get out of here. It's just not amazing.

Yeah, like Pagachar was third on the stage. Danny Martinez finishes right in front of him, wins the overall. Actually, pretty interesting race to go back and rewatch if you haven't seen it a while. But I think I think Paul Sikas wins. Who do you think wins? I think I'm going to pick Taltoro. Looks smooth. Yeah, I would like to.

This is a killer. Has this amazing finish also. He's quite explosive, man, Del Toto. when he sees the finish line. There's no bonification though. There's no bonification. That's what. And then you get to the high.

I'm super. I am just super. I am excited for the course. I think the course is going to be amazing. The way they've set this up is perfect because we have these two high mountain stages. Do you think Del Toro is as good in the high mountains? I guess we'll find out is Paul SikSos. I'm not, I don't really have a great grasp on this.

We haven't really seen success in the high mountains either. yet. Not really, right? Outside of the big, big climbs. And then on the other hand, Spencer, can we really call this high mountains? Oh, I love this take. Yeah. It's hard, but it's not like the high Alpahar Pyrene climbs, you know, it's not the same. It's different, man. There's some pretty hard climbs though. No, they're hard. I know they're hard, but there's, it's not the Turmalet or the Galibier or, you know, the, you know, Alp Dues or de Monsu, you know. I love this. Those are different climbs.

But just to give, so tomorrow's summit finish is an average of 10% for nine kilometers. Yeah, that's pretty hard. That's hard. That's hard. But you're right. How high? Okay.

How high is it, though? How high? But you're right. You're right. It's only 1,500 meters. Okay. Yeah. So you're right.

That's a big difference. Really. The big climbs or 2,000 meters. That's a big difference. It is a big difference. You don't really get those outside the grand tours. Yeah. If you really pay attention, you don't see here like right now, I can tell us the entire race only has 17 kilometers over 1,500 meters, you know? Like that's, that's really different from a grand tour. I don't know. I think del Toro winning would be unbelievable. I would love to

see that. I fear that we get that though. Man, this is hard stages. Stage eight is really hard. There's multiple HC climbs. Hoof. Well, before we leave, a question for you. I hope we've taken two ad breaks. Pretty sure we've taken two ad breaks. Yeah, we've taken two questions for you. First of all, Remko Evan a poll post a video. Remko's got to be.

He's got us wrapped around his finger. He's not racing. He's got this weird schedule where he's just not racing before the tour. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone do that other than Pagachar and Jonas after they've won the Giro. Seems like a bit of a dice roll, right? or maybe he's got this figured out. Yeah, I think Remko is special in that way that he's a master in preparing

and getting in the best shape he can with training camps. He's shown it already many times. Usually when Remko shows up from a training camp and especially at altitude, he's good. Sometimes he tend to have a bad day then after three, four days or a week. But usually when he shows up, he is flying. So not worried about that.

I think I'm not worried at all about Remko getting ready for the Tour de France without racing. Well, it seems he's a tour. He's light. He's super light. He's 63 kilos now. Well, which is key. Yeah. Because.

So, so, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. So, so. He's, he looks always like pretty muscular and very explosive. Um, I mean, the pictures have seen at least he looks good.

And, you know, he still has a number of weeks before the tour, right? So, yeah, if you look at those, I mean, obviously, Spencer, what you also need to know is that if a writer like Remko and his team decide that they're going to publish this information, it's because it's good information. It's because it's something to be proud of because otherwise you don't post it, right? So I don't know what is it. 425 watts is FTP, which translates to 6.7 watts per kilo, I guess. Yeah, which kind of like FTP kind of doesn't. It's not a great measurement, but it just gives you like a ballpark figure. So, yeah, 425, that would be what he can hold for an hour.

It's a maximum effort for an hour at 63 kilos, which is the key number because Brimco, it sounds funny to say because he always looks fit and skinny, right, to me. like to an average person. But when you see guys like Jonas and Taddy, they are always, people have different bodies. You know, like some people are always super lean no matter what.

And Remko is like a very athletic guy who just puts up and down with Remko. Yeah. He can fluctuate his weight more than other guys that he's competing against. So yeah, I think it's not. That's, yeah, good.

6.7? 6.75. The only problem is, Jonas Finnegard, Piancavalho. This is at the end of the zero, end of a five-hour day, 36 minutes, 6.8 watts per kilo. Okay. I mean, I'm not surprised with that,

and I'm also not expecting that Remko would be at the level of Jonas, you know. And then we still have Tade Pogacchar, who in theory is a bit stronger than Jonas Fingerguard. So I think Remko's goal, I mean, he's already finished third in the Tour de France, and I think that's his maximum achievable, you know, under the circumstances that the two big favorites are, you know, without problems, no crashes, no illnesses,

no mechanical problems, no unforeseen circumstances. But I think if Remko would finish third in the tour, and I'm not saying he will, but it would be a huge statement and a huge, like, answer to all the critics because he does have a lot of criticism. You know, there's a lot of people say, ah, you know, Ramco, he's a great rider. He can win this. But, you know, he always has this bad day or, you know, he fades away in grand tours.

Even if he has won the Vuelta. That's what I say about him. Even if he has won the Vuelta. And he has been third in the Tour de France. He's not considered as a real ground tour rider by a lot of people. Well, he's in a stage racing slump. we should say. Yeah.

He's really struggled since he got third at that tour. Yeah. But hey, I think it's worth the risk what they're doing, man. Nowadays, and especially if you have a rider who is hard-headed and motivated and focused as Remko Avenapool, I think it's worth. I don't think it's a gamble. I don't think it's a gamble. I think they know what they're doing.

I think Remko knows that he's going to be in his best possible shape at the start of the Tour de France. Then it depends what happens during those three weeks, of course. That's an unknown. But without races, I have no doubt that Remko Avinapool and his team know what they're doing and that he's going to be at the start of the Tour de France and Barcelona in a 100% shape. Well, it is a good tour route to plop in a super, you know, because he's flying when he comes off training camps, just plop them in because they have the time trial. He's going to do great.

And they go right into the mountains. So it was also, I guess it's not really a risk because last year he did the dophinae. He was amazing in the time trial. And he said he was never the same after that. And then he had a terrible tour. So what are you really risking? Like anything's better than that.

And probably this will set him up better than last year. I should say, I should finish that sentence that I was saying. So his watts per kilo won't be as high as Jonas, but he doesn't have. to be because he's heavier than Jonas. So if you're slightly heavier than someone, you don't have to put out exactly the same watts per kilo to stay with them because your raw power is higher and you're not racing

up a 90% grade. The problem is that at Pagachar is about one kilo more in racing form, 64 kilos and his FTP is like 450, 460. So that's where he starts to run into trouble. He starts to run into that mathematical problem. And speaking of Pogachar, Spencer, I mean, nothing's official. But, you know, and there's no data out there from Bogachar. But I have, I mean, this is just my gut feeling is that from the images have seen, videos

have seen comments from writers that he is once again on a higher level than last year. He's also been in Sierra Nevada. I mean, the whole, everybody was in Sierra Nevada in the last month. You know, and we've heard these comments, for example, of Maxim Vanquhart. stage winner of today who was there and you know he had this comment about that pogachar passing him on sierra nevada at incredible speed and they were thinking that he was joking and he was going to be stopped behind the corner waiting for them or something and then finally they went all the way to the top of sierra navada which is a 30 kilometer climb by the way

and there was pogachar so he went that speed the whole way i think he looks fit um I think that Polachar is going to be on an incredible level once again in the Tour de France. What do you think? Yeah, I think he's going to, he does this every year, right? He just cranks it up. He cranks it because he takes a break for the classics. He's maybe off a little bit of stage racing form. And then he just, he does a training block in between the classics and the tour.

And he hits a level that we didn't think was possible. It's funny to me that you know this better than anyone. This stuff gets in people's heads. Like Remko posting this video, I guarantee you, Taday was like, now what was his FTP? Now what's his weight? Like, these guys are so susceptible. It's a mental, it's a mental, mental war also. Listen, I don't think, I don't think Pugachar is worried about Remko for the Tour de France.

Pugachar is only worried about one guy and it's Jonas. That's the only guy he's worried about and that's, I think, you know, history has proven that that's, yeah, he's right. right to be to be worried about yonos if if poggha has a bad day um but yeah i mean and then yonos we don't know anything right we so he's obviously recovering from the gero um don't think he needs to recover that much because he didn't go 100% uh is he at altitude already now you know they're quite they're quite discreet and secretive in they're very secret with their information. But I have no doubts that he's also going to show up in great form at the start of the tour.

Yeah, let's see. I mean, we're once again talking about the Tour de France. We still have the Tour of Switzerland coming up, which is going to be won by Tade Pogacar, by the way. You heard it here first. And he's going to win Tour of Switzerland without even trying to go 100%. So unless there's like a circumstance that they don't care about the race. But Pugacha wants to win the Tour of Switzerland. It's missing on his palmaris.

It's one of those races that he hasn't won yet. So he's going to want to win it. So yeah, we'll see. And I think that Jonas is going to be great at the tour. And you kind of, I should have brought this up earlier with Navarre's, Maxen-Ven-Hills, Remco, they're all not racing and then, or those two guys didn't race them are on great form. Remko's probably going to be on great form. Jonas is probably going to be on great form.

Is there something to just not racing? Like clearly people are achieving amazing form by not racing for months and then jumping into a race. There's got to be something to that. Obviously, first of all, you avoid crashes in the lead up to your objective, you know, unless you crash in training. But obviously when you're in a bunch of 200 riders, there are many, many possibilities that you can be involved in a crash. So that's the first thing. And secondly, you don't have to undergo the law of the Peloton. You can train the way you want.

You have your intensities planned out, you know, structured during the day, day after day. When you're in a race and it's an easier stage, you don't necessarily do all the work. would have done on an altitude training camp. So I think building towards your best form for a high objective, training is always great. If you have the mental strength to suffer on training days, day after day, there are other riders who just, you know, prefer to race and, you know, use the races for competition rhythm. But, but, yeah, I think both both both work. Both work.

I think you have to be, we are also describing very good writers. Exactly. The pro told me, though, that the races are so fast now that they felt like, you know, even just like coming out of corners is so violent and intense that it's hard to replicate that in training as much. Yeah. But maybe if you're ultra talented, that's not a big of a problem. Yeah.

And I mean, I think, I think condition wise, the, the, the, the condition. they need to be competitive in their first race back after training camp is always there. It's just the rhythm. You may suffer a tiny bit with the speeds, you know, during the whole stage, but you're not necessarily going to get worse. You just need a few days to get back into it, but you're not going to be in trouble or you're not going to lose time because you haven't raced. Yeah, yeah. Well, do you have anything else you want to share before we take off to watch these final two stages? I think I think we've covered everything tomorrow, Saturday, Sunday is going to be interesting.

I'm curious to see if it's going to be success del Toro or Luke Tucker, who nobody would have thought about before this. I know. Yeah, it's super super interesting. We're lucky to have this racing ahead of us. Do you want to share your scoop that you worked hard to get? which was Austrians, maybe

Gelliegel Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think it's a scoop. It's, I think it's, I mean, it's a rumor out there,

but yeah, Felix Gall, and then his fellow Austrian, what is it called? Georg, called Gagor, Moolberger. Who was amazing during the,

was very, very good. Apparently have not renewed yet with Decathlon and are on the move to Little Trek. I think that makes sense. for both, you know, both for those two riders, for a little track, and also for

decathlon, because it's kind of a proof of confidence in Paul Saksas, who is, you know, hasn't renewed yet after 2007. So it's a, it's a proof that, hey, Paul, you know what, we're not going to do any efforts to keep Felix Gald on the team. You're the only leader of this team for the future. We have built the whole team only. around you. I think it's a smart move from DeKatlan also to let Felix Gall go. So I assume Felix Gall doesn't want to stick around for the to be to support Paul Sixthaus apparently.

Well, I mean, there's plenty of room in the calendar for both. But we also have to ask yourself the question is the second place of Felix Gal and DeGiro his best result of his career or is he able to do more depending on who is at the start of those grand tours. Yeah. It's not impossible to imagine him podium at two of friends. You know, if you got fifth

last year, second at the Giro this year. Like, he's knocking on the door. Also crazy to think a little trek. So I'm just looking at stage 19 at the zero. Derek G. second. Felix Golf fourth. Gregor Mulberger, working. Get 17th. I mean,

that's a strong little mountain group right there. Yeah, but still not good enough to be. those superstars. Stack enough guys between fourth and tenth and somehow that will add up. They'll get Iuso, they'll get Schalmoza, they'll have the top 10

full of their riders. Yeah, that is it is kind of a problem. But you just have to hope at some point it's not always, like, it's not always going to be like that. They're not going to be around forever either, these guys. But at the same time, Felix Gall,

how old is Felix Gall? He's more or less the same age as Orachari. I guess. 28. So he's like almost as old as he onus. 29. Yeah. No.

Is Pagaccha 29? No, he's younger than that. Oh, Pagastor's 27. Oh, 27. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Okay. We got years of this left. You're not going to beat him, though. So you shouldn't try to beat him. I mean, frankly. Well, you shouldn't go to race as well. He's not at the start.

I mean, it's perfect. Yeah. It's the best strategy. You know? Yeah. Yes. That is the best. strategy to beat to that I think that's what Pramus Roggwitch said just pick the opposite

schedule he's racing and you'll be pretty good well Johan I'll let you go and we'll be back after the dophine to talk about how this plays out okay thanks Spencer okay bye