THEMOVE - Can Tadej Pogačar Get His Revenge on Remco Evenepoel? | World Championship RR Preview | OŪTCOMES

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin share their thoughts on Remco Evenepoel’s standout performance in last weekend’s World Championship time trial before breaking down the course, contenders, and likely outcome of Sunday’s Men’s World Championship road race in Kigali, Rwanda. They preview the expected showdown between Evenepoel and Tadej Pogačar, analyze how the deep field of contenders could shape the race, and discuss how it might unfold, along with who offers the best betting value. Fabric: Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/THEMOVE. Policies issued by Western-Southern Life Assurance Company. Not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. Caldera Lab: Upgrade your routine with Caldera Lab and see the difference for yourself. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use THEMOVE at checkout for 20% off your first order Manukora: Go to https://MANUKORA.com/THEMOVE to save 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts Rugiet: Head to https://rugiet.com/THEMOVE and use code THEMOVE to get 15% off today.

There is only one rider, best of all times. That's Eddie Marks. He was the best at everything of all time, except sprinting. But he won a lot of riders, a lot of stages in sprints. Yeah. But he was the best cyclists of all times, probably won most of the time trials that he did. Maybe lost a few, but not many. But anyways, you know, you can't compare.

You can't compare. Remco is right now definitely. the best time to all this of generation by far. Hi, I'm Spencer Martin, along with Johann Berniel, and this is Outcomes. Outcomes is for information on entertainment purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered financial advice. Please gamble responsibly, and if you or someone you know has a gambling problem, seek help from a professional resource.

Hosts and guests may have financial interests in the bets discussed. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Everybody, welcome back to Outcomes. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernil, as always, and we are previewing the upcoming men's world road race championship championships in Kigale, Rwanda. And before we do that, we're also going to chat a little bit about the time trial, the impressive performance from Remko Evanapult, and as well as a few of the other results.

Before we get into that, let's hear from our partner on today's show. And then I'm going to ask Johan his take on the time trial. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Fabric by Gerber Life. You know, running a household with kids is pure chaos. Add in podcast, racing, coverage, travel. It is a lot. while we plan for the day to day, the truth is you also need a plan for protecting your family if something unexpected ever happens to you. That's where Fabric by Gerber life comes in. I know I worry

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Fabric makes it simple and affordable with flexible, high quality policies that can fit your budget like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day. So join thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at meetfabric.com slash the move. That's meatfabric.com slash the move, M-E-E-T-Fabric.com slash the move. Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in certain states, prices subject to underwriting and health questions. All right, Johan, just to start things off, we're going to look backwards before we look forwards. Your countryman, Remko Evan a poll, shut up to the, I hope I said I thought he might win the time trial championship in our last show because he was, it was not.

not even close. He absolutely blew everybody away. Taday Pagachar, who I guess it may be even I said it, was a pre-ra's favorite, but in reality was not even really close. Jay Vine was second, a minute and 14 seconds back, really impressive, considering how good Evanapole was. Elon Van Wilder, Evanopold's teammate on Sidel Quickstep and Countryman, 236 back, really impressive. Pagachar, 237, and then almost right at the day, Isaac Deltoro, 240. back and keep in mind this is a 40 kilometer hilly time trial um 50 minutes for the winner basically 50 minutes so almost an hour long time trial you don't see many of these i think the big takeaway was pagachar stinks evanapal's awesome evanapal's the best now move

over to it of france i think there's a little bit more nuance behind the scenes there that we'll get into but what was your takeaway from that performance yeah i mean i think logic has been respected, right? Remko won the time trial. He's now three times in a row. Time trial world champion. So I think that says something about, you know, his qualities. I think it's fair to say that right now, in this moment, in this generation, he's the best time trialist. People Ghana is a close second, but it starts to be more tilting towards Remko, especially when there's a bit of elevation in the course. Honestly, I didn't expect him to be so dominant.

J. Vine, second place, comes with great form out of the Vuelta, lost that time trial against Ghana with one second. So obviously, that was a great performance, but still, you know, it was one minute 14 to Remko. And it's true, as you say, you know, they are not used anymore nowadays to do these 40-kilometer long time trials it's you know like 23 25 max you know yeah but but basically um I think um and then yeah I mean people were kind of some of some of them would say they were shocked about Bogachar's fourth place uh I think the the image of the of the time trial was basically Remko catching Bogacha who had started two and a half minutes in front of him um that was

definitely something that we hadn't seen. Definitely not with Pogacar. But if you look at it, Bogachar was fourth in the time trial. So it's, you know, he didn't do a bad time trial. And it's his best result ever in the World Championships time trial. He's been really in the back already. I think he's, he's been 23rd or 24th in Scotland. And then he ended up finishing third in the road race. I think it was to be expected. I think people were too hyped up about, yeah, can Pogacar win this time trial?

I think Pugacar is, he's not a time trialist. He does really good time trials in stage races, which is completely different. Completely different. And then on top of that, I would say also Remko, I mean, hats off for his performance, but he is, I think,

if you look at the first guys, He's the only one who has prepared specifically for this time trial. You know, we all know that he abandoned the tour of France, then took some time off, and then basically worked towards the world championships, just did the Tour of Great Britain as a preparation to get back into competition. But I don't think there's anybody of that top five riders who had spent more time on the time trial bike than Remko in the last. month or the last one and a half month.

And he is already the biggest specialist and he is by miles the most aerodynamic rider. Yes, it was favoring the climbers. That's, for example, the third place of Van Wilder is a good example. He's not known as being. He's not a bad time drawlist. Don't get me wrong. But you know, you would never put him in the top three if you have to do a, prediction.

But Remko, you know, he's pretty good also on hilly courses. You know, I mean, he's won Lébaston Liesch twice. He's won San Sebastian three times. He's won the Vuelta. I've been third in the tour. So these are not like, un, like, you know, impossible climbs for Remko. So, yeah, I mean, I think I was surprised with the dominance, but I think the result. the result was kind of expected.

Definitely first and second. I think if there was one rider who could come close to Remkoa was Jay Vine because of his incredible condition right now, but, you know, he didn't come close. And even talking about Jay Vine, it's like, yeah, he's very good. Great result, but he wasn't at an altitude camp before. He was at the VALTA racing, you know? Then he's shifting.

And I don't ask me to explain it. But stand-alone time-trailing is so different, basically than them stage racing, which is why you see a lot of stage racers, like top GC riders win time trials at the Tour de France or in other Grand Tours, and then not win the World Championships or not win the Olympics. It's very different. Remko is hacked it. Like whatever he's doing is working very well. And like yet, so let's say he's not a climber, like not great at climbing at the tour this year. But as you say, yeah, he won the VALTA. But even in that VALTA he won, he's very good at like I need to climb this climb very fast and he can like dial in on that effort

and he's so fast like I don't I need Remcoe to be studied like for he can come in on these specific efforts and just like it is unbelievable how much he blows people away I was wondering and also he looks like John called Van Damme right now the guy is yokes well I mean I let's not let's not focus too much that there's that one picture that I saw on him and also You know, he has his sleeves up and he looks, he looks kind of, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's fit. He's very fit. But, but, you know, people say, okay, Ramco is not a climber. He can't climb.

I mean, man, let me tell you, a rider who wins the Vuelta and is third in the tour, he can climb. There's better climbers than him, but he can climb. He can definitely climb. You cannot win a grand tour if you can't climb, Spencer. And you cannot be third in the tour of France if you can't climb. There's no way. We're going to get into this later in the episode. But I guess it's like saying, like, is the moon real?

Like kind of a ridiculous premise that you have to argue from. He can't climb as good as today and Jonas, but he can climb. Well, and I, yeah, we're going to get into this later. There's this, it's, I guess it's different though, right? like there's like there's like prescriptive climbing and then there's guys like you could wake yonis up at two in the morning and say go in the middle of the winter and ask him to climb up to as and he's going to put up a really good time like it's just like anywhere any time six days six climbs into a stage first climb of the stage you're just always good and there's

certain riders who like have to dial in on the effort i don't fully get why they're different but question for you before we move on remcoevenable these are his last four major like stand-alone time trial results. 23 world champs wins it. 2024 Olympics wins it. 2024 world champs wins it. 2025 world champs wins it. If there was Olympics this year, he would win it.

Like he's that good. He wins that good. He wins everything. Five grand tour stage wins in the time trial, two in the tour of France. Is this the best pure time trialist of all time, Johan? Poof. I mean, he's definitely a pure time trialist. that's for sure of all time i would say not no not yet at least you know he's still young and he's 26 no 26 he's 25 yeah it's 26 i believe 26 yeah yeah um no he's not i mean

of all time spencer i i don't like that term of all time that's another fun term you can just kind of throw out yeah you could say for example me could go back to For example, Jacques Anketil, you know, he won the Tour de France five times. He was called Mr. Time Trialist. He won the Tour de France in the Time Triales, and he was not considered a climber. But he went, he got, he had to get over the climbs. But he made all the difference in the time trials. You could say that's probably the best time trial.

That tries of all times. I don't know, but probably not. No, I mean, of all times. there is no there is only one rider best of all times that's eddie marks he was the best at everything of all time except sprinting but he won a lot of riders a lot of stages in sprints yeah yeah you know but he was the best cyclist of all times probably won most of the time trials that he did maybe lost a few but not many but anyways you know you can't compare you can't compare.

Remko is right now definitely the best time trial is of generation by far. Yeah, when does he lose? I mean, he... Well, I'll tell you exactly

when he loses. The two time trials he lost were the two mountainous time trials. He lost on in the Pyrenees. What's the... It was a Paris sword.

Perugut. Very good, yeah. He lost the niece because they did the cold days. That's also a climbing time trial. But other than that, when did he lose the time trial? I'm not going to fact check this, but I think I believe it to be true. I think he lost, he actually lost that time trial on the descent of the coldes. That's where he lost most of his time, not on the climb.

Yeah, but you're right. That's the only time he loses it, pure mountain time trials. I would say the argument for him being the best is there's rarely do you see someone that good at flat time trialing that is also that good on any like really just like think of like a tour de friends time trial it's just a given that remco is going to win it it's not even a question like even at peak pagachar like pogachar like pogachar just gets close and you're like wow that's incredible he got that close to him i did go back and look at this i'm just about modern let's say post post lance armstrong time trialist so like starting in 2010 just because i can pull some of these guys off the top of my head like i would say

Tony Martin, four-time world champ, Olympic gold medalist one time. Fabian Cancelara, four-time world champ, two-time Olympic gold medalist. Those would probably be the benchmark. Like you have Michael Rogers winning three in a row. Rowan Dennis wins two world championships, I believe. But, man, so Tony Martin. For Ghana, how many times is a good example. He's won two world championships, one Olympic medal.

The thing about Ghana, so he's first in 2020, first and 20, first and 20. 2021 world champs and then he's just been usurped by by remco 23 he's second 2024 olympics he's second 2024 world champs he's second to remco like actually i think rimco is probably a better time trialist than gana who i would say is one of the best pure time trials i've ever seen and then and then you know continuing on that i mean it's it's i'm not going to say it's i mean it's probably not a rumor uh it's it's a rumor right now but it's going to happen is that Remko has apparently also said his mind his mind on our record that's on his on his wish list the the our record that is now held by people Ghana yeah I

would say the our record for people at least of my generation it it they messed it up right did they like not reset it or something well yeah I mean initially initially they So, so my recollection is Eddie Merck's had it. It was 48 something then, no, 49 something. Then the first one who beat it was Francesco Moseer. If I'm correct, is in 1984 probably. But that was like with a completely different bike. That was like the first time we saw an aerodynamic bike with two disc wheels, a small,

smaller front wheel, bigger back wheel, beat it in at altitude. I don't remember where it was. Then it kind of went on and the technology evolved. We had Graham O'Brien, who had this tucked in position on his self-made bicycle. I don't know if you remember that, the Flying Scotsman. Yeah. So like, O'Bri, if like people my age, when you were a little kid, like it was like, O'Bree Boardman, like that was the big.

But Aubrey had, Aubrey came, I remember I was still a cyclist. I think it was early 90s, probably, that Aubrey came and he had this very unconventional position. He was basically, his elbows were against his shoulders. Yeah. And he had made this. So everybody was saying, what is this guy going to do? And he broke the world record.

Then his, the UCI went against him, his bike got canceled, that position got canceled. then they came with a different position. It's called the Superman position, which was like super, super, it was like the arms were all the way out. Aubrey did that, Bortman did that,

and then, I mean, some other guys did it. Then that got banned too. Then they went back to all of a, and then all of a sudden there was like a few years where they banned every single position. They went back to the traditional.

Yeah, okay. of the Eddie Marks era. Of course, more modern bikes that had to be a traditional frame, same wheels, no disc wheels, normal handlebars, which then finally Chris Bortman broke, I think, barely. And then they kind of went back to the time trial technology of nowadays. So yeah, it's a bit, it's kind of been up and down. Like did Jens Voigt not have the record at one point? Yeah, you remember this?

Exactly. Yens Voigt was one of the first guys who, did our record again with so when they when they deviated from the traditional yeah like but it was again the try the the the the time trial bike yeah and yeah that's where it lost me i don't know it's like what is going on here like yinzwoits standing up because he's in such pain on the he's like so unused to riding a track bike and he got it then maybe campan arts was involved at some point but come then then campanars beat it then uh no bradley wiggins Bradley Wiggins had it.

I don't remember when I was 2014, 15 maybe. That sounds right. And then Compronauts beat it and then Ghana. I would say it did what was pretty interesting was Ghana's like trainer was going for it. Remember this? Yeah. Ghana and then the guy training Ghana. Yeah.

That was pretty interesting. Yeah. Dan Bingham might have had it actually. Oh, he got it. He broke it. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say we're cancel, like, looking back on this, what I think, I'd forgotten

cancelor went to Olympic gold medals. That's super impressive. And then seven tour to fronts, time trial wins, counting prologs. 11 grand tour time trial wins, counting prologs. So I would say Remko has a bit to bridge the gap there, like a couple more world titles, another Olympic gold medal, more grand tour stage wins. So he's a bit off on that. Well, he still has a few years.

years of career left yeah and the thing with time trials too is sometimes like you know with with cancelare you have like a you get you just do other things it's like then you're going for one days and you're not as good at time trials anymore so yeah remains to be seen what happens but i just coming back to remco poof he was incredible like that was an impressive person you look at that position man i mean the position of remco it's it's perfection you know it's like i can i don't know what can be better no You know, and you see other riders, they are, they're getting close, but, you know, and it's, it's a matter of, I mean, I'm sure that there's nobody who works so fanatically on the time proposition, on the equipment, on the clothing, on the helmet, on everything, then Ramco even in the pool. Well, and he's, he's obsessed about it, you know, it's, and it shows. And someone might be listening and think, well, why isn't everyone just, just take a picture of Remko, get in that position and ride?

It's like, well, okay, we could all tuck into an aerodynamic position, but the trick is to be able to produce power at that position. Almost no one can do it. Like someone like Bradley Wiggins, he can put out such a massive amount of power in his time trial position, which makes you very fast at time trailing. Like not many people have the flexibility or body ability to do that. It's very hard. Before we move on, I did want to talk quickly about like just because, so this time. trail happened and you think okay that is the form for the world championships road race but there is quite a bit of time between those two events like do you think their form will shift

i mean obviously it's very different effort too one is one hour another one's going to be seven hours about yeah no i mean it's it's different very different listen the guys i mean if we're talking about um um ramco um j vine von wilder from willers and and and polachar They're all going to be good. They're all going to be good. Now, I think I'm convinced that the Pogacar we have seen on Sunday is going to be a completely different guy next Sunday. You know, let's not forget, Pogacar probably didn't spend hardly any time on a time for a bike. You know, we all know he finished the Tour de France.

He was tired. He was maybe a bit sick. He was definitely completely burned out mentally. it took a while for him to recover from that and he got back into it in Canada. Let's not forget, look, so Pogacar did the time trial on Sunday. A week before, he spent like four or five days in Canada. Yeah. It went straight from there than to Rwanda.

That trip is difficult, you know. I mean, it takes out of you. So now with a week more of adaptation to the time zone, to, you know, recovering from the travel. a bit of the altitude also, which is another thing. Like Remko did altitude training and the others probably, I mean,

Von Wilder probably also did a bit of altitude training or whatever or altitude sleeping. I mean, maybe they were, I know Remko was in Calpe because he has a house there. So he probably was in the hotel that we talked about in synchrosferra,

staying there. you know and train there yeah but but yeah pogatchar didn't didn't do that so i have no doubt that pogatchar is going to be different on sunday i still there's a little bit of doubt in me that let's say are we going to see the really good poggacha because i had the impression spencer i don't know what you think that in canada in quebec and in montreal we did not see a great pogatchar even when he went away, even when he, you know, he gifted the race to Brandon McNulty, who was his teammate who got caught up with him. I didn't have the impression that this was really a top Bogachar, but it's now two weeks

later, and I think he's going to have his game. I kind of agree, like first thought, but are we downplaying that performance in Montreal? Like, remember, he used to win that race, he would eke out a sprint finish, and then he would attack and win by 20 seconds and then this year he's like I'm just going to have my team ride real hard on the front and I'm going to burn everybody off them and I'm going to ride away the team was impressive yeah it's not it was not easy to do what he did like he they for ride that field and he he was able to withstand the effort but I emotionally I do kind of agree with you I don't feel like we're seeing the best I think we could see a better better road race because of it like

we should all be excited that he's not special I think we have to have in mind is that like, okay, you know, Bogacha, he's not going to win every single time. You know, I mean, it's like, okay, of course, he's the big favorite, but so many things can happen. And it's, it's a one-day race, you know, and it's, it's the form of the day and everything needs to be perfect. And it's still, I mean, Bogacha is still, I mean, he's human. I mean, he's not, he's not invincible. I mean, how many people win the Tour de France and the world championships in the same year? It's not a common thing to be done. No. I think there's a reason it like I'm just now looking the last time it happened before so

Pagotcha did it last year and then it hadn't happened since then since Stephen Roach Stephen Roach in 87 or Greg Lamont in 89 did he he won the tour that year yeah so yeah it's not like a thing that happens every every year um before we get into our predictions our official predictions just quick touching on the junior men's road race stuck out to me because sorry junior men's hasn't happened yet the time trial ashlin berry gets second so miko morris from the netherlands i'd never heard of this person obviously very good because he wins ashlin barry gets second and then another american beckham drake gets fourth and i was just before you're recording i was looking this kid up daniel benson somehow got an interview with him since the race finished yesterday and

today pretty impressive and apparently he races for like his local team like his local bike shop in amarillo texas well okay maybe but he must have shown definitely something otherwise he would not be selected for the world championships right well he was at the tour uh it's tour de la abitie it's a very hard to pronounce word for me it's a stagerous in canada it's like the tour de laveneer of north America and it's like the best young riders in North America. So if you get fifth there overall. Spencer, if you also say you never heard of what is, is Michael, Michael Morris, Michael Morris?

Yeah, Mikel, Michael, like M-I-C-H-I-E-L. Mechil. Mihil. Yeah. Number one and two of the time trial. We're also number one and two in Paris Rube, juniors, for example. yeah so which is funny because really good like a really good writer this guy it's funny as perrubay juniors ends up always being it's like top time trialists win it probably because they just

with the rough surface they just ride away from everybody but um super impressive american finishes there we did our research or journalistic research so USA cycling we said they weren't paying for riders to go over I do believe that probably these two guys were talking about pay their own way because we know juniors that pay their own way but we did talk to at least one senior rider who they bought a coach ticket for and then that person could choose to upgrade that ticket i think i think the the professionals they get they get their travel taken care of and if they want to upgrade which i'm pretty sure that they all do because it's a hell of a trip then that's that's on their that's on their on their money they stole the we do travel policy

there. I don't know who in our communications, but I'm going to start citing that. But someone also messaged me that their revenue is down, USA Cycling's revenue was down $10 million last year versus the year before. So there could be

some, that's what, I should have fact checked this, but this is what this person, 10 million less, which is a lot. How much is the total? Well, they do have been to get a little business down there in Colorado Springs because there's a lot of people that have licenses and they take a big chunk of that and then

they basically sell insurance to every USA cycling race and so they get like I'm just making this number up like seven dollars of every registration for every race in the country goes to USA cycling so it's obviously it's a small country but it's a big cycling country but Belgium which is a big federation I'm I'm pretty sure that total budget is less than 10 million Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Wait, wait. This might not be right. Okay. That's, it seems a bit. I wonder if this person messed up a zero because it was a million, a million less. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Oh, great. It's a nonprofit. So it has to, well, this doesn't look that good. So their revenue was quite a bit less than their expenses in 2024, according to. the pro publica so that's not great that could be explained why they're being a little stingy on on the on the tickets but uh we just wanted to say that we do know someone that got paid that got their ticket paid to fly there um and then the mixed relay today i i i don't does not

connect with me like what is there any we should say who won i guess um australia wins france second Switzerland third. This is men's and women's combined. Is there any way to like spruce this event up? Because currently it seems like the men go, they do the course as soon as they finish. But in a separate location, the women start, do the course and then you add the times together. Why does this event even exist, Spencer? I mean, it's like, I don't get it.

It's, okay, you know, there's a few big cycling countries, you know, so Australia, France. who was that Switzerland was third Switzerland would have won by the way without Marlene Roycer having a mechanical anyway Australia wins second year in a row but it's like I mean it's so unnatural I don't I don't get it three riders

I mean you can see I mean look at the participants Spencer the big guys just don't want to ride it because I mean obviously Obviously, it's in between the time trial and the roadways. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. It feels so artificial to me, you know, like,

you should do a team time trial. Like, you know, whatever, four riders, five riders per country. Like before, I mean, obviously, you know, that's completely unthinkable now. But back in the days, there was the 100 kilometer team time trial with four riders. which was world championships and Olympic games. That was the team time trial. That was like an unbelievable event, 100 kilometers. I guess you run and start running into the same problems, right?

Because then what top rider would do that? No, no, no, no, no. I assume they do this because it divides, 54 minutes was the winner. So you're only doing half of that. So you could like, you can, because some of the writers were pretty good. Like Michael Matthews, Luke Blab, Amanda Spray. at like that's on Australia and like Switzerland is Stefan Kuhn and Marlon Roycer.

So you are getting some quality. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But I guess before this, the reason they do this is they used to do a team time trial for trade teams, which made no sense whatsoever. And that's actually almost made it to the 2016 world. We were trying to get our team into the, because you could like, you can, if you're the host nation, you like get more allotments.

So we're trying to get our team into the world championship. to be in the team time trial. But that didn't make any sense. Like, why are these trade teams competing in an event that's for world teams? Like, I never fully understood that. Yeah. Today I saw something, Spencer, which, you know, I mean, and everybody knows, you know it. But most of our audience knows also how much I love the UCI and their president,

Daphit Lappartian, which, you know, I mean, we could do a whole podcast about, you know, why are the world championships in Rwanda, which is a whole different discussion. And, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of criticism about that, about the world championships being held there for a lot of different reasons. But anyways, but man, I saw the, this is, this is, I mean, La Partiana should be a shame to let this happen.

There was a team in there, so it's called the UCI, It's the cycling center. Yes, UCI cycling. Basically, you know, it supports countries of non-traditional cycling, you know, and there's Africans or Asians, there's, there was a team. I mean, this is the team of the UCI. And there were riders in there who didn't even have a time drop bike. I mean, how can you let that happen?

I mean, it's your team. Yeah. I mean, La Partier. Yeah, I think I think he's probably in the best five-star hotel in Kigali. You know, two nights of one, two nights is two nights of staying at the hotel. That's that's a time trial like, you know. I heard he's maybe he's not made a public appearance, I believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He gave him. Okay. And then he tweeted the wrong. He congratulated. Tata and Pagotcha for winning that about. He must have scheduled tweet right there. He must have had the text prepared. Yeah.

He said, congratulations to Marlene Royser and Tadapogacar for winning the time trial. And I think, I guess he forgot to change it to anyways. He didn't listen to outcomes. He didn't listen to your pick. That's for sure. Had it right if he had. Someone asked a question. We won't answer it today.

We'll do it next week. But it's like, does the UCI ever made a good decision? I'm actually sure they have, but we'll have to do our research to dig into that. But they make a lot of bad decisions, too, a lot of bad decisions. Did Beny and Gremai come through the World Cycling Center? I believe he did, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so there are, yeah, that is. I find that weird that they weren't on TT bikes because. No, I know, some of them. But, I mean, as the UCI, you have to have your whole team on the same bikes, man. I mean, what is this? It's like, this ridiculous. It's your team and your riders are not on time pro bikes?

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So moving on to the Sunday's race, the World Men's Road Race Championship, the distance 268 kilometers. And the race is comprised of there are nine laps like in the city, Kigali. So we've been watching the race. You kind of know Kigali at this point. then they do one big loop out in the country. They do a longer climb. It's like 6K long at 7%. So it's a serious climb.

Then they come back in and do six more laps of that circuit. The circuit racing quite hard. I'm curious to see how that longer lap is going to play into things. I don't think, Johan, have you seen this before where they do the circuit? They leave the circuit and come back to the circuit. Usually they do a bigger loop and then come into the circuit.

Yeah, it's a bit strange, but. Yeah. And the steepest climb, sustained climb, it's like just under a kilometer at 8%. And they do that multiple times. So that's going to be quite difficult. And then it's a total cumulative. We found different sources on this. I'm going with the most conservative one, 5,500 meters of climbing, which is a lot. I mean, I couldn't even find examples of many races ever having that much. in a one day, that's 18,000 feet. It was 2018 in Innsbruck, no one by Valverde. Yes, which was. Four-man sprint. That was 5,000 meters of climbing. So this is 500 more meters of climbing.

But that was a very hard race. That was already very hard. Yeah. So it's going to be on top of that, Spencer, you know, it's super hard. There's cobbles. One of those, so the 1.3 kilometer climbed the last. And it's which when we saw, you know, in the time trial, Well, it's cobbled.

So it's very, very hard. And then also something not to be underestimated. It's at 1,500 meters altitude. Yeah. I mean, it's not 2,000 meters, but you feel it, you know. It definitely has an impact on the riders and their energy and their performance. I mean, I live at, so 15, I live at like 1,800 meters of altitude. And I mean, you.

get better. I don't, I feel like I'm, I've, I never fully acclimate. So there are certain people that like are just better at higher altitude than others. So a lot of climbing. I mean, here, for example, like if you stacked up all the monuments this year with the world championships, the world championships, 5,500 meters. The next closest one is Lombardia, 4,700 meters. The age best on the age. Think how hard that is 4,400 meters. And then Flanders to just a little over 2,000. I don't even know if that's right. Can that be right? San Ramo over 2000, Peru Bay, 1500. So significantly harder than any other one day race this year. The favorites are, this is on Unibet. It's the only book I could find with the favorites up yet. Pagachar minus 203, Evanapult plus 33. So for Pagachar,

at least on this book, you would have to bet $208 to profit $100. So the heavy favorite, Isaac D'Oro plus 900, Tom Piccock plus 1,500, Mateus Scalmosa plus 2,200, Ben Healy plus 2,500, Richard Carapest plus 2,500. There's a lot of people on here, but we'll call them out when we need to.

But Johan, how do you think this plays out? And we should also say, this is raced with national teams, not trade teams, which really changes things. And some of the national teams have a lot of riders. Like, I believe Slovenia has nine riders, along with a few of the other,

like top the nations that score the best throughout the year. Some teams have fewer riders, like the U.S. has five riders. So not every, in Mexico is three. So not everyone's fighting on the same level playing field. It's there. I find the worlds to be the strangest race of the year. That's why it's so fun. But how do you think this plays out and who's going to win?

It's going to be an elimination race, Spencer. You know, it's 5,500 meters. different racing you know as we said national teams yeah yeah Slovenia they do have nine riders but there's there's some guys that they will struggle um how it plays out i mean it's the strongest guy is going to win there's no doubt about that um i know already that you're going to pick pick who you're going to pick so i i have to pick someone else and i'll go you know i'll keep my belgian hat on and pick ramco even a pool to win um because i think from of of everybody he's probably the freshest uh comes off you know an incredible um motivation boost with with the

time trial and and this is something that these kind of climbs it's it's okay for him you know it's not you have to be you don't have to be a super climber you have to be able to climb but these are not like long mountains so i think with the power he has he looks he looks really powerful um and i don't know if he was in the gym or what he he looks powerful so um and he looks fresh also in my opinion he looks like that's i mean and that's why i say you know i know pogacha there's going to be be a change in Pogacha over this week. But to me, if you look at both of the riders, not even going off their performance, but if you look at them on the day of the time trial, it's like Pogacha was a bit,

okay, you know, probably tired, doesn't look super fresh. And Remko looked like ready to go to war. As I said, this will change over this week, but I'm going to pick Ramco to win at plus 3.30. I mean, I even noticed like Pagachar was adjusting his helmet mid-time trial, which you would never see Rimco do. I mean, that was, that doesn't make you confident when you're watching a man at Justice time.

That brought me back to Primus Rogwich, 2020 to France. If you were going to pick Remko, you would do it because you would say, he's in great shape. He's prepared specifically for this and he's fresh. And when he's fresh, he can do things that not many people in the world can do. I think I think it was like San Sebastian the year he won the Volta so that would have been 22 he was amazing he shows up to the Volta like his body just like looks it pops off the screen like he just is a certain look to Remko's body that like you don't see what the other riders when he's really fit and he has that look right now I would say what do we make of this like the Olympics road race last year if you set that aside which I know that's a big thing to set aside he's not a like what is going on with this slump in one day races so like really good from 2021 to 2023 and then since then like you know it hasn't won a monument not just has has just the game changed or what is going on with the one day racing mini let's not forget two i mean one thing

but actually two events um huge crash in the bus country last year In 2024, yeah. Took a very long time to come back from it. So he missed the whole spring campaign. And then in the offseason, again, that accident, you know, which apparently the consequences are a lot worse than we thought. And he basically, you know, he didn't miss the spring, but he started really late, right? I mean, he won his first race in Fleth, Provenson, and that did second in the Amstel.

Yeah. What's weird about that is he comes in at DeBronce Appeal and looks like I just said, right? Like, oh, wow. This is unbelievable. And then like degraded through that spring. And it was not quite as good at himself, not as good at liege. I don't think he had a great base. You know, he trained very intense as soon as he got the green light and got quickly in shape. But he didn't have the foundation. That's also why I think he didn't, he underperformed in the tour. yeah yeah like if you if you're underperforming at liege it makes sense that because you don't have the base and it's hard to make that up by the tour i'm going to pick pagachar for one simple reason because if you sort tate pagachar by in one day races over 4,000 vertical meters he is not lost one of those races that he's finished he crashed out of uh the asian 2023 but outside of that the last time he lost a race over 4,000 meters of one day race was 2022. That was the world championships

in Australia, got beat by Remko Evanapol. So maybe this is the repeat of that. But if you do the same thing with Remcoevenipal, you see that the last time he won one of those races was 2023, San Sebastian, then 2023 liege, 2022 world championships. Just for that simple reason,

and if you even filter above that at 4,500, Rimco has never won a one-day race with that much climbing. Pagotcha has never... The last time he lost a one-day race with that much climbing was 2021 at the Olympic Games when he got third. He's undefeated since then. So this guy just wins races with this much climbing. Yeah.

And it's as simple as that. I think he's going to win because it's got a lot of climbing and he's the strongest and things, the harder the race gets the less everything else matters. And he's got a pretty strong team to go along with that. And is Spencer, you know, how is he going to? I mean, I agree. He's definitely the big favorite. And those numbers are there for a reason, right? Now, do we think, do we think he's going to attack already on Mount Kigali, which is how far from the finish? That's a very long way from the finish. It is 162 kilometers into the race. So it's 100K from the finish. I don't know if he did it last year. As you said, I don't. know if we're seeing that same level of pagachar as we saw at Zurich that was I think I think I think there's going to listen the race is going to split apart I mean it's going to blow apart on that

climb it's you know it's six kilometers seven percent after having done already nine of those laps the heat the altitude I think what's going to happen probably is that there's going to be a selection Pogacha will want a selection because he doesn't want to He wants to have the big, the main guys with him. So it's a man against man race. So, you know, I mean, if all the good guys will be there, that's going to be the selection that he wants to make. Now, it's tricky because some of these other riders, his other favorites, may have teammates

with them. And Bogachar, I mean, logically, if that happens, he would normally only have Primo Zroglich with him. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even want to, I don't know if Primos is going to be there. In theory, yes. What happens if he gets away with Remko on that climb?

Do they work with each other? What do they do? I think Remko will work for sure. Yeah. To me, that would kind of be the way he wins. I mean, there's other riders who are going to be there. They'll tour. You have Skirmals.

You have Ben Healy. You have Pitcock. I mean, he's not getting away with Ramco and everybody else. is, I mean, no, there's going to be a selection of more riders. We should say the reason we're not pumping up Bizak del Toro, even with that TT result. And even though I think he is an incredible rider, I mean, how many races has he ever even done in his career of this length? It can't be many, right? I don't know.

We have to look at the monuments. There's nothing else. How many monuments has he done? Not many. He did Milanis and Ramo. He actually did pretty good, 13th place. and then that might be it i don't believe he's done another monument unless he did one i think that is it he did strata bianchi 250 kilometers that was in his first year pro though d andft um it just

it starts to get tough and the same thing with wild cards it starts to get really tough at this distance with this much climbing but let's it's a weird race it's a it's a super weird race there's a a reason like we're in awe of Peter Sagan for winning three world championships because every race is physically different. Every race is different from, you know, you've had the whole season in front of you, like you're never facing the same type of competition twice. You never have the same team twice. It's very rare even to win back-to-back world titles. Let's say something weird happens. The world championships weirdness rears its head again. Who do you think could win that's not these two riders? Very simple for me, Tom Pitcock.

Yes. He's a guy, super high pedigree, super talented, in great shape, just finished third at the Vuelta. That form still is going to be there, and he has rested between the Vuelta. And this race only does the road race, and I think he's going to be ready. He definitely means, listen, he can do the distance. He's shown it already. you know he won amstall i guess uh yeah he won in this he has won amstall at some point yeah yeah yeah he even thinks he wants it he won it twice he pitcock thinks he wants it twice he won it twice

he might be right on that actually i think he is right um but yeah tom pitcock plus 1500 i think that's uh that's really good odds for a wild card i i can't honestly can't believe he's plus 1500 because if you watch that vaulta i guess i just said maybe the vault wasn't the best preparation because it's not at altitude but this isn't the time trial these guys have been here they're preparing this isn't just the first day you show up you're racing i i'm shocked he's plus 500 i think with how with how light he looked and how powerful he looked on a course like this where you have two guys looking at each other, Bagacha and Evanapole,

it's wide open for Tom Pitcock. I think that's a great pick. If I was going to pick someone that wasn't him, the people I would look at, three riders I would look at, Matea Schalmosa, Ben Healy, Richard Carapaz. The rider I'm going to pick is Mattéer Schalmosa plus 2,200.

I think Ben Healy, I don't want to, I think Ben Healy could win. This is the type of race he could win on because he can get in front of the moves. But I'm picking Schkelmoza because, what's the last time we saw a real duel between Pagacha and Evanapol in a one-day race, Amstel-Gold.

Who won that? Mateo Schoomoza. Because Pagacha and Evanapal were so obsessed with each other. They forgot there was a guy sitting in their wheel and he sprinted around them and won. And he's looking really good right now. He was at, he was at in Durango in Colorado at altitude before

this. So he's a little bit prepared for that. I'm going Schegel-Mose at plus $2,200. And just finished second tour of Luxembourg, one of the hardest stage is there so yeah in good shape yes and so yeah i think this is i'm actually surprised pitcock and schemosa are this like cheap because it's like yes spagotia and evan polar the favorites but this isn't a grand tour this is a one-day race with some climbs they're both pretty good at races like that i think that's like this is the real value as pittcock and schkamoza yeah yeah good team also

the danish yeah good team missing you could you could think of one rider who this course would suit who's not here yeah but the danes usually they always ride really well as a they do ride really well yeah i mean it wouldn't i'm even thinking about just like denmark in last in the last few world championships like think about like mad's peterson like just showed up in 2019 and won and like who saw that coming but the team does race together really well i'm looking at the start list right now it is extremely strong i'm sure they'll all be behind Schomoza, like no ambiguity around that. What do you think about Belgium and Slovenia?

Do you think inside the camps there's clear delineations of leader versus everybody else? Belgium is Remko. Yeah. You know, Van Wilder a wild card, right? But everybody else is at the service of the team. And in Slovenia, it's for Alchar. There's nobody else. I mean, we'll see what, I mean, Primos is still Primo.

right? I don't think he raced since the tour, no? He might have done one race. What did he do? He did San Sebastian very quietly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But hey, listen, never know with Primos. You know, he's a quality writer.

But I think normally he will be at the service of Bogotcha. I mean, what's wild is Slovenia has more riders in this race than Belgium? Who would have thought that would ever happen well i mean it's eight riders plus if you have the if you have the defending champion you can bring a you get to bring like an extra one yeah yeah um what do you think about just before we leave we don't have to pick them one like how do you think wana us so is going to do here a lot kind of yeah noise around him coming into the race but do you think he's well prepared if he wasn't

prepared for the volta it seems hard to think he would be prepared for this yeah you know i mean it could be it could be okay but i i i listen we've never seen anything from Mayuso in these kind of races and especially that distance you know he's not uh he's won one day races but um but not of this distance so um yeah he's going to be he's going to be a factor i think but uh but i i can't see him winning i mean yeah he's won one one day races but nowhere near this no caliber either like this is quite a bit different than uh the drum classic the trophy the guy that really has had an amazing uh amazing performances leading up to this to this world championships is del toro yeah if you look at his campaign in italy i mean

did he win four out of five four four out of five races or five i don't know and he won what's he almost never loses races like almost like since that jiro which you would think would devastate most people i think he won like four in a row i think I'm trying to find the start list so I can click on him. It might be more than that, actually. He's like, he's been on an unbelievable terror. Okay, here he is. So he won, oh, nope, he won three in a row, 31st Memorial Marco Pantani, which is a flat finish.

And then, but was not a sprint. And then wins the one after that. So one, four of five. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's his last five race. Yeah, yeah. So he's an incredible shape. He's super talent, you know. Super talent. Yeah. I mean, I would say for, he's not going to have any team support. That's, you know, so he's by himself. I mean, he's asked two riders, but I don't think those riders can do much for him. So he's going to have to pick his, his moves, you know. How old was he's 20, Del Toro's 21. How old was Matt Pedersen when he won his first world title? Must have been around that.

22, I think. 22, 23. Because if he, well, he's actually older than I thought. Well, he's born in 95. So then, wait, was he like a teenager when he won in the World Championships? No, he would have been 24. It was 2019, no?

2000. So if he was born in 95, he would, yeah, be 30 in 2025 or later this year. So, yeah, he would have been like on the early side of, 20 24 20 like maybe 23 though I guess because he's birthday's late in the year so yeah two years older than del Toro yeah yeah yeah yeah um but he's a guy that like was good and then you're like well he's not going to win a world championships and then he did win a world championship so it is possible that it happens I just wouldn't bet the house on del Toro winning yeah and uh in everyone should game responsibly game please I don't want people losing their life savings on

and then the other guys you know who we didn't talk about at all uh is i mean do not i mean he's had his best days are behind him but still julia la filippe uh yeah he was you know he's in good form he's in good form he won in quebec but then did you see him at montreal yeah yeah that to me looks like he's such a talented he's so class that like like he's so class that like can pull a Quebec out, but it's like, does he, you know, it's like LeBron James at this point. It's like, yeah, he can play like seven amazing games, but he can't play like a hundred amazing games a year. 168 kilometers on that course.

There is no hiding, you know, there's no surprises. I'm now looking at his season, though. It's actually a little bit better than I remember it being. Hmm. That would be quite the surprise if he wins. I don't know if I would put money on it. but yeah he's actually been pretty good this year if you just look at if you showed me an anonymized sheet of his results for the year I'd say this guy's pretty good and he's on a second division team

he must be amazing but yeah I don't think he's going to win but but I but as you say to go back to the the major climb in the middle of the race it will be interesting to see who gets over that climb in the front group and who's in front at the time and if they've already caught the breakaway by then. So I think it's going to be super interesting with the circuit, short circuit, long circuit, short circuit, mixture could make this a really interesting race. Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks, Johan. Anything else on the race before? No, I'm, uh, I'm off. I mean, I need to pack my suitcase till I'm going on a little bike tomorrow. We got to get you to the, to the, to the, to Nice. So you can watch this race with,

uh, a former world champion himself. Yeah. Well, good luck packing. Have a good sleep and then good travel tomorrow. Okay, thanks.