THEMOVE - Critérium du Dauphiné Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Johan Bruyneel, George Hincapie, and Spencer Martin break down Tadej Pogačar's dominant Critérium du Dauphiné victory over Jonas Vingegaard, Florian Lipowitz, and Remco Evenepoel before diving into what it means for the upcoming Tour de France showdown between the three big stars and what, if anything, anyone can do to stop Pogačar. Pique: For a limited time, get 20% off for life plus a free Starter Kit (rechargeable frother and glass beaker) when you grab the Pu'er Bundle. With Pique's 90-day money-back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Try it now at https://www.piquelife.com/themove and feel the difference on your next ride. Ridge Wallet: Right now, Ridge is having their once-a-year Anniversary Sale. Get up to 40% Off at https://www.Ridge.com/THEMOVE. Just head to https://www.Ridge.com/THEMOVE to see their biggest sale of the year! After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. AG1:  AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out. https://www.DrinkAG1.com/themove OneSkin: OneSkin is the world’s first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code FEMMES at https://oneskin.co. That’s 15% off https://oneskin.co with code FEMMES. After you purchase, they’ll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support this show and tell them we sent you. Square: Square keeps up so you don’t have to slow down. Get everything you need to run and grow your business—without any long-term commitments. And why wait? Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at https://square.com/go/THEMOVE. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today.

You say that, you say that, calculated like what we think is calculated racing is like it has nothing to do with the way they race anymore. I mean look at the first stage where they're attacking with a over like what a 900 meter climb and they do that kind of damage. I mean the top four guys now are just so much better than anybody else that they can essentially well Remco they just ride away from the best runners and the best guys in the world who knows what 800, 900,000 watts per minute and just bridge the gap. Nobody's letting a guy like Remco bridge up. I mean, the level of these guys is so high that calculated racing, I don't even know if it exists anymore.

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johann Brunel and George Shincapi. We are breaking down Tadej Pogacar's dominant performance to win the Criterium du Dauphiné 2025 over Jonas Vindigo. Vindigard Vindigo. We still haven't decided how to say his name, but he finished 59 seconds behind Pogacar with Florian Lipowicz on Red Bull Bora-Hansgrohe taking third and then Remco Even, a pole fourth, I believe, I hope I've got a GC pull up. Yeah. And we'll also dip our toes into the first two stages of the tour of

Switzerland. But first let's take a quick break to talk about our partners. And then we'll be back to hear from Johan and George about the race. Everybody. This episode is brought to you by peak poor teas as cyclists. We've all learned the hard way. Energy endurance and digestion can make or break your performance. When I'm training hard, I can start to feel really bloated after meals, sluggish mid ride, and totally crashed by the end. That's all changed.

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All right, let's get into it. All right, Johan, you can go first. We talked on Friday, so I kind of know your thoughts, but Tadep Gachar wins the Dauphiné, stumbled a little bit in the time trial. We can go back and talk about that in a minute, but what were you thinking just leaving this weekend? Like is the tour over? That's kind of how I felt. I know that's a

little risky to say, but it felt that way. No, no, no, no, not at all. Uh, the tour is far from over. As I said, you know, the Dauphiné is, it's a good test, but it's not, uh, I mean, it's not because you win the Dauphiné or because you have really good shape in the Dauphiné that you're going to be great in the Tour de France. I mean, I think he will be great in the Tour de France. For me, he is the favorite, but there's a lot that can happen between the end of the Dauphiné and the Tour and especially until the start of the mountains at the Tour, which is still almost four weeks from now.

So yeah, I think Pogacar can be, I'm not going to say relaxed, but he knows he's good. And Jonas and Remco need to do some work still. They still know what they need to improve on. So there's time to do that. I guess they're all going to altitude between now and the Tour de France. And so we'll see how they show up at the Tour de France. And especially this year's tour, I think we go back a little bit to old fashioned Tour de France scenarios where the first 10 days were like the easier stages, no real mountains. So it's a long time until we get to the mountains and a lot of things can happen. And when they hit the mountains, they'll have 11 days of racing in their legs, which is a lot. Uh, so it's good. It's no completely different, uh, different scenario.

Well, we they're not mountainous stages, but there's a time trial and they will be raised. I'd assume incredible. They will probably will lose a GC contender in the first 10 stages. At least a lot could happen time-wise in that, cause it's all like Northern France, Hilly, difficult racings. Um, so it's not like they're, they're not dinking around out there for 10 days. No, for sure not. No. What do you think, George? Yeah. I mean, I wonder if they're all going to the same place in altitude to

train. When you said that, I was wondering if they're all going to be here in Nevada or if they're all kind to the same place in altitude to train. When you said that as well, if they're all going to Sierra Nevada or if you're not there, or they're all kind of dispersed different areas. No, Visma goes to Tigne usually, and they go again. And UAE goes to Isolato 2000. They were there last year also. And I don't know where the rest goes. I mean, a lot of them go to Sierra Nevada, some even to Teide.

But I think most of them go actually to a place in the Alps at altitude where they can also take advantage to still preview some stages. Oh yeah, that makes sense. No, listen, I texted you guys, I think it was Wednesday for the time trial. I said, wow, do we actually have like a real race in front of us here at Tour de France? Obviously, who knows what happened with Pogachar, but he was definitely off the mark in terms of the other favorites. That made it really exciting.

But then once they hit the mountains, just watching them right away from Vindigo and Remco were like, oh boy, it's going to be a repeat of last year where he just kind of dominates. But I think a team like Visnall will go back and just try to focus on the positives, how he kind of was able to limit his losses, so to speak. And at one point, even bring back a little bit of time one of the times. That's really their only option is to focus on the positives, positive outcomes of the Dauphiné, focus

on how strong their team was, how strong their team is going to be for the Tour de France. So yeah, I think all in all, not a massive defeat. Jonas sounded confident in terms of like his numbers were good. He said his performances were as good or better than ever. And he said he still had room for improvement. So, you know, like the Johan says, it's definitely not over. It's going to be hopefully a good race next month. Don't you think though, George, like, you know, in terms of teams, okay, Visma, I think Visma was, yeah, they had a good team, but they could never use their strength. UAE, I think they will get, I mean, they have at least Adam Yates and Almeyda coming in, if I'm not mistaken. So, but man, with these guys, I have the impression that the teams are actually not that important

because as soon as, I mean, the only thing that could happen here is that Visma is stronger as a team. They have more numbers and the day gets isolated. But then what he does, he attacks and it's just the two of them. There's nobody else. I think that in that term, you're a thousand percent right. You're like, those tactics don't work against Boguchar. Were you going to make the race really hard and try to soften his legs?

That's just making it better for him. Like those tactics, I feel like they need to go out of the window and just go. Now they have the race all meant to lose the race. I mean, put their guys in breakaways as much as they can. Go for the stage wins. You know, pretend they don't care about second place. Pretend they don't care about third place. They're either in for the win and stage wins or nothing else. Right now, the tactic of softening up a guy like Poguchar doesn't seem to have worked in the last two years. I don't see it working in the Tour de France.

Yeah. I mean, I think everybody thinks back about this famous stage on Col de Grano, you know, when they when they went between the Telegraph and the Galibier and wore a mouth. But that was actually that was actually Jonas and Roglic, two candidates where I think they made a mistake. You know, the majority having the numbers works in a case where there's several mountains and you can send somebody up and then today is isolated in a valley. But the only guy they can use

for that is Matteo Jorgensen. He's a threat and they will always have Almeida and Adam Yates who are I think more or less at the same level as Jorgensen. Well, I thought we had Sepp Kuss also. I mean, he's not a couple of years ago, but he's getting better. So who knows? Maybe the time he gets to the tour, he will be his best Sep Kuss. And then we got Simon Yates as well. But we'll see. Yeah. Simon Yates. I forgot about Simon Yates. Sorry. Would Sep Kuss be a legitimate GC fear? I don't know. Like I just,

but got you have to follow Sepcoos at any point. No, no, no, at this point I don't think so. So he's just, he would just be there for pacing help from Vendegaard. But we even saw yesterday where they put them in the break, Vendegaard bridges up to him and he gets like two, he like does like four pedal strokes and then Vendegaard has to leave them. So that's not like a great, actually didn't fully understand why they had him in the break yesterday. Like unless he's just trying to win the stage. Yeah, you can go for the stage win. Yeah.

Yeah. Stage win or, you know, in the, in the hopes that maybe poker try had a bad day, maybe Vinograd can attack and get into sep and they can try to make a gap. But obviously that wasn't happening. Well, it's always, Spencer, it's always the case also if you have somebody in front, you know, whatever happens, whether it's if your leader is all of a sudden stronger than his biggest rival, or if he's weaker, you always have somebody in front who can wait, you know, in any, in any circumstance. So, but if that rider is so tired from getting in the front that they can't help the person, does that kind of defeat the purpose of having them there? Yeah, I mean, it does.

Yeah. But I mean, you're looking at a rider like Sepp Kuss. I mean, historically, that's the guy who made the most differences as per Jonas over the last four or five years, won the Tour of Spain. I mean, a great, a great Sepp Kuss can do a lot of damage in that scenario. I mean, maybe he's a few percentage points off of his top form, but, um, man, you put a good sub course in a situation like that. He can make a huge difference.

Yeah. But here's a theory I want to share that I was thinking about. I don't think Bogotar and UAE are too worried about the strength of Vizima. However, you know, I think they're, they're strong. They're very strong themselves. Well, there was three days where it was the exact same thing. Visma would have a rider attack in that group. Pogacar would respond. He would drop his teammates. Now he's isolated, but then he would then just drop Visma.

So the last step of that's becoming a prank. I'm clear how you actually solve that last step. The only the only the only time it's an advantage, if it's when it's not an uphill finish or if there's a lot of terrain between mountains, you know, as soon as it's uphill or if it's an uphill finish, teams don't really matter, you know, it's it's as soon as Pogacar accelerates. There's only one guy who can follow his Jonas. And then the question is, how long can he follow?

Now, of course, you know, in the next month that can change. I mean, I hope for the sake of everybody that the gap becomes a bit smaller. But I just I keep saying, George, that, you know, the biggest enemy of Tadej Pogacar is called Tadej Pogacar is called Tadej Pogacar. If he writes calculated and really goes when it matters, after what I've seen in the Dolfi day, I don't know how close they can get. You say that, calculated.

What we think is calculated racing, it has nothing to do with the way they race anymore. I mean, look at the first where they're attacking with a, over like a, what, a 900 meter climb and they do that kind of damage. I mean, the top four guys now are just so much better than anybody else that they can essentially, well, Remco did this right away from the best printers and the best guys in the world at who knows what 800, 900,000 watts for a minute and just bridge the gap.

Nobody's letting a guy like Remco bridge up. I mean, the level of these guys is so high that calculated racing, I don't even know if it exists anymore. Well, yeah, it does. It does. You know, I think if you look at the stage seven, I think that was calculated racing from Bogotar. He attacked when he was solo and then he just managed the gap. He even set up a bit in the last kilometer. Stage 8, too, was super calculated. Yeah, but there he was calculating

him on Jonas. He didn't have to attack. But yeah, I meant more of the stages, the historical strong climbers, sprinter guys that are going to win those stages. These guys are going to attack now. If they see an opportunity to attack and it's a little bit hard and it doesn't matter if it's normally a 900 meter climb, it's not going to make that kind

of a difference. The GC back in the day guys would never make a difference on a climb like that. No way. It would be a sprinter probably wouldn it didn't, it didn't make a difference because the sprinters were on the back wheel of those five. Yeah. It's stage one. Right. But, but you know, you're right. You're right. I mean, the, the, that stage one was spectacular. I mean, we would have thought, you know, that these, you know, the three guys for GC and then, uh, and then Matthew and who was the other guy? Butrago. Yeah. We're going to go away. Yeah. Which was actually strange that we didn't see guy? Butrago. Yeah. We're going to go away. Yeah. Which was actually strange that we didn't see more of Butrago on the real climbs. That's typically what he's good at.

He also deflated like a balloon at the end of stage one. I don't know if you guys think he got dropped so hard out of that group in the last few hundred meters. Yeah. He, uh, well, let's take a quick break and I have a theory and I want you to tell me why it's really stupid. So we'll be right back. Everybody this episode is brought to you by AG one. I've got some big news to break to you right now. AG one just launched their next gen formula and it's a serious upgrade.

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it helps your skin not just look, but actually act younger. You're literally de-aging. Get started with 15% off using code TheMove at On one skin.co that's one spelled out O N E skin.co and use code the move for 15% off. All right, let's get back to the episode. Okay, Yoann, I was just thinking about this yesterday watching the race. So Visma, so impressive, right? The bumblebees, they're everywhere. But I've been feeling this for a few weeks now. So they're just constantly they have all these riders kind of in the GC. It's like vaguely threatening. And then meanwhile, you are not like at the Dauphiné, not nearly the same level of rider that Visma has.

But those guys, they would get dropped on climbs. They would claw their way back on the descents. And all they're doing is setting up Pagachar attacks. Like everything is for Pagachar. They're just killing themselves in the front and then exploding. Like, is this Visma like multi-leader strategy actually hurting at a certain point because no one's completely emptying the tank to set up a singular attack or like work towards it?

I think, I think is their only way of eventually trying to beat him because if it's man against man for the moment, it's Tadej who wins against Jonas. So they need to try to do something else. If you look at their tour team, okay, I said only Jorgensen, it's true. They also have Simon Yates, although I have,

I doubt that Simon Yates will be in the same shape in the tour than in the Giro. he will be on a huge domestique role, but listen, he's a great rider. He already finished fourth in the Tour de France, won two grand tours already. So, you know, if you look at his pal, Marius, he's actually better than his brother, results wise. And so, I mean, that's a guy that they can use as a threat, I would say as a threat strategically,

maybe not as a real threat because, and then you never know what's happening. If Simon Yates comes in a bit undercooked, I would say, or a bit overcooked from the Giro, whatever you want to call it, but he's still on paper a threat, right? And that's something that you can use strategically, let's say, even in, even not in the mountains, you know, if there's big group, the problem of this Tour de France will be the first 10 days, big groups going and it's difficult to control everything. Now of course there's teams that have ambitions in the first 10 days and they will want to control.

So they will always find help. But normally this tour to France, UAE starts as the one and only favorite and it's the whole peloton against them. George, we know very well what that feels like. And in that first 10 days, that's the biggest, that's the most difficult part of the whole job for these guys because they're dying to come to the mountains because then it's everybody for themselves and everybody's in his place. But you know, a guy like Simon Yates or a guy like Jorgensen, if they go in a big group and it gets out of control and UAE doesn't find any help. Now let's not forget it's teams of eight riders nowadays, not nine anymore. So they have five or six riders who can control and you control a group of 20, 25 riders is

not easy. So I think there you can actually play with the numbers. But then of course, if Jorgensen is there, then Almeida is maybe going to be there. And who knows what's going to happen then, right? If a group of 20 riders goes and those two riders are in it, then what happens if they take a lot of time? And, you know, taking a lot of time doesn't happen anymore these days anyway. The breakaways are always quite, quite limited advantage.

You know, the last time we saw that really was, well, we don't want to get it to you, but Ben O'Connor last year at the Vuelta and then Sepkos the year before at the Vuelta, like the tour, you don't really see that, but we're getting to the crux of the issue and George, I knew you'd want this. So I put this together stage six Pagache are outnumbered by Visma on the ropes. What's he going to do? Well, he gets to the bottom of the funnel climb, 19 minutes, 58 seconds long. His VAM, 1,857 meters.

His speed, 16 miles an hour. That's absurd on like a over 7% climb. His power, I've calculated it. And I just wanna say, I'm making assumptions here. This is usually pretty accurate. This one sticks out to me as something I may have messed something up on, but just taking all the speed, the VAM, his weight that I'm assuming is 65 kgs into account, Mu,

tell me if I'm wrong or right on that. He'll know. I have him calculate at 494 Watts for 20 minutes. Basically that's five Watts per kilo. We should say that is a low altitude climb it tops out around like 3,500 feet like 1,100 meters so that is like the perfect place to get a high power reading for 20 minutes that's ridiculous like that's hard and then stage 7 the next day this is the next day comes back he's on the ropes again oh what's he's he going to do? 39 minute climb power for,

I have it between 440 and 445 Watts, 6.8 Watts per kilo, 700 VAM. That is not far from stage 15, Plato to buy 2024 tour 39 minutes, 6.9 Watts per kilo, almost 1900 VAM. So that shows you like he's, he's like scraping the form that he had. And I thought that stage 15 at the tour was maybe the best climbing performance I've ever seen. So like he's getting up to that tour level that we saw last year in Georgia.

Remember when 2023 you were like, I don't think Pagatra can ever beat Jonas again because of that time trial. Well, stage six went up that same climb that they did of that time trial. Well, stage six went up that same climb that they did in that time trial. And he did it like almost 30 seconds faster than Jonas did in that TT. And also, also George, talking about that climb, Cote du Dommon Si, so we talked about it

in a former podcast. So it's a famous climb. You know, Bernard Hinault won the Worlds there in 1980. Eddie Merckx won his first world championships as an amateur there. And you should know this climb, George, from the Dauphiné 2005. If I'm not mistaken, you won a stage. I won two stages, the prologue and the last stage. Okay. Well the last stage was finished in Salange going three times over

the Cote de Domancy. That client. Well, that wasn't that long. It was deep. Well, no, but no, it's the first, it's 2.6K. So it's the first, the first part of the. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So I was away with that. Yeah. I remember quite well. I was away with the Popovich and he was putting the hurt on me big time. Yeah. And do you remember anything else? Yeah, I won the stage. You wanted to win the stage or you said, I don't know what you said.

You said, you guys talk about it, but he was sort of waiting for me on the climb. But I was like, no, I said, Popovich had to wait. You went over it three times. You guys were escaped from the start, basically. Long downhill. I remember it was the first time you had these huge profile wheels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was almost like a disc wheel.

And so we got to the climbs and Popo had to wait three times for you on the climb. Not three, the last time I think. At least two. At least two, yeah. And anyways, and then you guys, the last time, I think. No, at least two. At least two. Yeah. And anyways, uh, and then you guys, the last time over the climb, when you baited back to him, you said, okay, who do you want to win? I said, Popo needs to win.

And, and you, I mean, you didn't say any, he said some of already I could, I could hardly hear. And then you freaking convinced him to let you win. Um, I don't know if I could listen to them. Well, first of all, if we were together, there's no way he'd beat me in a sprint. But yeah, he did wait for me. But my view was I feel like I had seniority amongst the team. I had helped the team at that point, went six tour de France's

been there longer than anybody else. So, yeah, I should win the last stage. It only makes sense. Yeah, OK. Well, I had a different. I had a different view because, you know, I should win the last stage. It only makes sense. I had a different view because, you know, I knew that he was going to be the last guy or the second last guy in the mountains and that he had to sacrifice the whole tour, you know? And so I wanted him to feel a little bit, you know, protected by the team. Anyway, I think I was pissed with you at the moment, but yeah.

And it was just not the charming George, not pissed anymore. Yeah. Actually kind of reminds me of, I think, I think about this a lot. It like Roman Barde stage one of the tour last year, he's with a teammate, kind of a similar situation, but I think Barde was was waiting a bit for his teammate on the climb. And then it's like, just assume Barde is going to win that and take the Jersey. But like, do you think they had a conversation or was Frank Vandenbrueck just like, well, no, no, for sure.

Seniority. No, no, for sure. They had a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's has he done anything else since then? Vandenbroek.

It's a good question. Yeah. I mean, he's a good writer, but he was definitely better than, than what I've, what I've seen from him the last year. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was drilling it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Johan should run, but this was his last race. Sad to see actually makes me feel old. I don't like it. I don't just, I need him to keep racing for my own personal comfort. Why is he not going to the tour? We're right there.

Just two more weeks of training. Oh, I agree. And then finish your career at the tour. And the team needs him there. Yeah. I think, I think, you know, first of all, it's decided before the season already that, that that wasn't going to be his program. He is from the area of the, where the Dauphiné was, it was his home race. So, you know, what better way to, to finish the career. And, um, I think mentally he checked out already, you know, I mean, listen, the tour, the tour is a different level than any other race.

Uh, he knows what suffering is. And if you're mentally not ready for it, it's just better. You're not going. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's a bit strange, right? To, to see a rider like him finish his career, like just before the tour. Um, but listen, he'll know better. Plus he has agreements already with, uh, with TV. He's going to be on the motorbike, uh, on the tour to France commenting. I don't know how you didn't do that. I would never, I mean, they could pay me a lot. I would never go on the back of a motorbike and a bike. He's think of the tour.

You're just baking on that thing. Yeah. It's not just about that. It's, I mean, it's dangerous. It's scary. Yeah. It's scary. Well, I guess you say that, but don't riders crash a lot more than the motorbikes.

Yeah. But you're in control. Like it's different when you're controlling your bike at 60 miles an hour down at Hill. When the place is a little bit, but you're in control. Like it's different when you're controlling your bike at 60 miles an hour down at Hillwinds, as opposed to somebody else controlling the bike and you're holding on to them for dear life. It's a completely different feeling.

Like you're not in control, even though they're amazing drivers, but I would have a panic attack. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's take one more break. And then we'll talk about people who aren't that at Pagache who are at this race and how they may be potentially possibly could beat them in the future. Today's episode is brought to you by Square, the all in one platform that helps run your business smarter, not harder, whether you're running a bike shop like us at MJ's, Melojone's, a coffee spot or something totally on your own.

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slash go slash the move that's square S Q U A R E dot com slash go G O slash the move. Run your business smarter with square. Get started today. All right, back to the show. All right. So Pagato wins this actually there was talk just like chitter chatter like, Oh, he's overcooked. How's he going to hold this form? Do you guys know that? There's four other writers who's won, who have won this race by 58 or more seconds since 2012.

And they all four went on to win the tour. So right then, right there, you see that like, it's probably better to be in good shape two weeks before the tour to France than to have work to do. But who are the, who are the writers? Garen Thomas. One of them works with us. Bradley Wiggins Bradley Bradley. Yeah. Bradley Froome. Garen Thomas, Christopher Froome. And then the other one is Jonas Spindegard, 2023. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So just, it does show you, I think people overcomplicate it. It's just like,

well, it's just good to be in shape and not think about like having to make up time. Like Jan Ulrich was famous for this, like cramming for the exam and then you're fatigued from getting in shape too quickly and losing weight too quickly. It's not good. But also think about this. If Tadej Pogacar is not at this race, Jonas Vindegaard wins by over a minute and wins by almost three and a half minutes over Remco Ebeno. Polin Murs saying this guy's unbelievable. Like he's unbeatable.

Pogacar can't win. So Vindegaard had a good race. It just didn't look like it because he like, he probably put in some of the best climate performances of his life. So I think it's safe to assume he is number two and the tour hierarchy. Also the TT like Pogacar had a bad day in that TT, but Vendigard is actually a really good time trialist relative to Pogacar. He be like in third week time trials at the tour, he's beaten him three out of four times in their

career. So he's not a panic who can in the time trial. He can lean on that to game time, but a young rider gets third, a young upstart, and it's not Remco Evenepoel. It's Florian Lipowitz. Like what, what are we thinking about this guy, Johan? We saw him last year making some noise. I believe it was the tour of Romandy in third. And then he was also good at, he was good in the welta like, but he's 24 year old German on. He was second. He was second in Paris nice this year.

Now second in, in Dauphiné somewhere else. He was third. I don't know if it was fourth at bass country, the fast country. Yeah. So he has second apparently is fourth back best country. fourth at Bass Country this year. Bass Country, yeah. So he has second at Peronese, fourth back at Bass Country, second at David Dauphiné. That's pretty, that's like, wow. That's a podium candidate for any Grand Tour. Yeah. No, I think, listen, the guy's still quite green.

Let's not forget this guy started bike racing, I think four or five years ago. He was a biathlon athlete and then he was on a small team in Austria on the Tirol or something. And yeah, really unpolished, unpolished, I think physically and especially tactically makes a lot of mistakes still. Oh, like stage six. Yeah. What was he doing?

Yeah. Yeah. But listen, he has the, he has a big engine. Not, no, the tour is different. You know, it's, but I mean, I think, I think Red Bull they're happy to have him, you know, I guess both Roglic and Libovic are going to do the tour if I'm not mistaken.

So yeah, initially the tour was not on his program of Lipovic. They just added it recently. But yeah, listen, I liked the guy. He's very, very strong and we all know that Remko went full gas as hard as he could and he beat him fair and square. And then also a guy we haven't spoken about until now, but I think will be, you know, up there all the time. Also is Tobias Johansson.

It's been a while, you know, he won Tour de the Laveneer a few years ago, four or five years ago, I think, um, his brother, his, it's not the same guy. His twin brother just won the tour of Slovenia, uh, the DC. Uh, so, you know, in that team, you know, X, they have two really good writers, uh, for DC also. Um, that team is really improving, you know, I'm not going to say the year by year, race by race, actually, they're up there. And, you know, they're, they're top three in, in, in the classification of the pro team. So they have guaranteed entrance in all the world tour

races, including the grand tours next year, 2006, 2006 with this new rule now. So, yeah, I mean, you know, you know, the manager quite well, no, George Torhusoff. Yeah, quite well. You actually rode with him last year when I was in Monaco, but I do have some thoughts on Jonas and Wiesman on Lisa bike. I feel like what we saw in the Giro is perhaps a little bit different team where they're taking a different approach. And look, yeah, maybe some ego points were won, some competent points were won this week.

But if Jonas, it doesn't really matter who wins Dauphiné. I mean, let's just say they're all in it for the tour. Like Johan said, the first mountain stage is until 10 days into the Tour de France. 12 days into the Tour de France. Jonas had been raised since he crashed in Paris. He is clearly a step above a level above last year, way before the tour of France. So in my mind, they were there just this is just sort of part of the overall plan.

They want to win the tour of France. They're bringing in a new sponsor. It's the biggest race in the world. He's won it twice before their team is stacked. Maybe they're OK with you on this getting second. They're really happy with Jonas where he is right now compared to last year. So I don't know. I'm thinking maybe this is part of the plan. Of course, they didn't want to beat him in the time trial. They're going to take some, you know, some a lot of thought

and confidence out of that. And George, but he's going to continue to improve. Maybe it's part of the plan where this is should sit in the plan and that they should sit in the fan two weeks and tour of France. That's when Maybe it's part of the plan where this is shit. Titting the plan and the shit sitting the fan two weeks into the France. That's when they want the best of the best Jonas. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But man, the difference was big on the climbs. Very big.

I mean, the way you saw facial expression, their face after the finish. But I was like, I mean, yeah, no, I mean, no doubt. I'm not going to say he was easy because you know, makes it. I'm just trying to give the fans and our viewers hope there's going to be a fun, exciting tour to France. That's another thing. That's another thing I want to say about, about today.

You know, like, I mean, I see that he's, he gets criticized for being dominant, you know, and, and it's, you know, it may look easy, but I can tell you, this guy is close to his limit. You know, I mean, it's like on stage six. That was all he had. That was not I mean, that was all he had. You know, I mean, I hope so, because seven point. What is it? Seven point five. That's what you know. I hope that's all he has.

Yeah. Stage seven. Probably not. You know, he had more than that. There that was a controlled effort. But still it's, as you say, George, the Dauphiné has nothing to do with the tour. It's completely different. It's a three week race. It's a, it's, it's a long effort. Um, recovery is key.

I mean, the day is also known for having a great recovery. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, at the start of the tour, they start from zero again. Right. Yeah, they start from zero. I'm just, I'm just saying they watched the whole season. I mean, Ted, it basically did not lose a race, whatever it was. I mean, the biggest one here is in the world and they were just sitting in the sidelines watching.

I feel like they probably expected to get beat this week. Like that's maybe part of their plan. Like, well, we're, this couldn't be very slight chance. You actually beat him in this race. Like that's maybe part of their plan. Like, this couldn't be a very slight chance. You actually beat him in this race. Look what he's done this whole year. He hasn't lost a race essentially. But let's just keep progressing. Uh, you know, uh, progress, not perfection.

Uh, like coach Bobby J always says, and get to the tour at two weeks in at the best possible level where Tadej's been there all year, essentially. So, I mean, there's a slight hope there, I feel like, in their strategy. That's what they have to hope. Otherwise, you know, they have to hope that. But, but yeah. The difference though is- You could also crash or something too. Yeah, that can happen with everybody. That's the tour actually, the risk in the first 10 days and then the stress, the nerves, it takes so much out of you. That's also part of how

you get to the first mountains. I have the impression that today is more handy in the peloton than Jonas. So to have Jonas keep him up there, they need the whole team around him. And it also takes a lot out of the team. Of course, you know, you have Wout, who also joins the team with Slack, you know, where three, four guys, him by himself. So yeah, they, yeah.

Now, if you know, if I start to think about how strong Vismo will be, they will be strong. If you add, if you add Simon Yates and both, yeah, they still, there's still a basic math problem on these climbs because the Gatcher's threshold is so high that when he except like someone texts me like, why isn't Jonas just hanged to his, why is he getting dropped? Just hang on his wheels. He's stupid. But it's,

it looks like he's accelerating away from them. But the reason he's doing it is because Vendegaard has been pinned before the acceleration happens. So Pogacar has like more room to go. And then Vendegaard is like already at the limit. He just can't stick with them if he accelerates and it's like, yeah's like, yeah, I mean, and he's not that much like the problem is vintigar is a really, really light. And then for gotcha is not that much heavier and also as explosive and as a higher threshold power. So unless I mean, anything can happen, right? He could overheat. He could forget to eat. It's happened in the past.

It's not like they should just give up, but there is a math issue here that is hard to overcome. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. I mean, for sure the levels higher, definitely no doubt, but there's so many variables that can happen at the tour, crashes, illnesses, bonks, all that stuff. But obviously it doesn't happen very often with UAE or Pugacar, but it's got, you know, never enough. Yeah. UAE or Pugacar, but this guy, you know, never enough. Yeah, we should also mention.

I think one of the things that we also should mention is what was remarkable to see at least in two stages, stage six and stage seven, is that when the last guy for UAE was pulling, in the first case was Narvaez, in the second case it was Sivakov, in the first case was Narvaez. In the second case, it was Sivakov. It was only Jonas and Tadej. All the other guys were gone. Remko, Lipowitz, they were all gone already when the last guy of UAE was pulling. So add to that Almeida and Adam Yates.

I mean, that's pretty scary. Yeah, and we remember the, the, the theory that Pagato was bad in the heat. It was a heat wave in France. I think, I think, I think he hasn't figured out now. Yeah. So that seems to not be an issue anymore, but any more thoughts on the Dauphiné? We probably should just spend like two, two minutes on the first two stages of the Tour de Suisse if we're done with the Dauphiné. Yeah. So Tour de Switzerland started, it's always weird. Starts in the're done with the Dauphiné. So tour of Switzerland started.

It's always weird. Starts in the final day of the Dauphiné. You feel like you're besieged by racing. Roman Grégoire wins. Kevin Vauclan second, and they're like a minutes ahead of the Peloton. And then Ben O'Connor is fifth, one 17 back from the winner, but still. Over two minutes ahead of the Peloton, which includes heavy pre-race favorite, Joao Alameda.

So now Joao Alameda has like a lot of ground to make up on a guy who just got second at the Vuelta a España, Ben O'Connor in a similar long range breakaway. And then George, today, your friend, Quinn Simmons put in like one of the more impressive race destroying lead outs I've ever seen in the final K K, but I don't quite know what it was about other than maybe you can't cause chaos. Yeah. And then Vincenzo Albanese, maybe he's like a big EF fan and he just wanted EF to win and he did, but that was a really impressive acceleration.

Yeah, actually. I mean, for a young rider, just full of confidence thinking, maybe he could ride everybody off his wheel or maybe he was leading somebody. I missed that part. But any crash yesterday, I believe, in the breakaway. So clearly in great shape, full of confidence after winning the U.S. national title. I know he loves riding that jersey.

So he's in a good spot right now. But definitely went a bit earlier in that sprint. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. And coming back on yesterday's state, Spencer, you know, it sometimes happens in the tour of Switzerland, these kinds of things. It's true though, you know, Ben O'Connor is the one guy that by now they should know to not give him too much time.

You know, he was second in the Vuelta, he was fourth in the Giro, fourth in the tour. He was second in the Vuelta, he was fourth in the Giro, fourth in the Tour. Man, plus, I guess they all track the progress of their rivals. You know, this is a guy who's been preparing for the Tour, so he's coming into good shape now. And then of course, the only big, big, big favorite of the race is Almeida. I think his favorite, his favorite ranking is above everybody else, which makes it difficult to control. You know, UAE, there was a big group of 30 riders had, they had three, three and a half minutes, I guess. So UAE had one guy in there, I guess,

Felix Grosscharner, not a bad rider. He can also climb. And then my question is, how important is the Tour of Switzerland for UAE? I think that's the main question. It may be important for Jawah Mada, right? But is it that important for UAE overall? I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say, you know, they don't want to sacrifice the whole team on day one.

Listen, if there's 30 riders away and there's no help in the peloton, if there's 30 riders away and you, and there's no help in the Peloton, you're screwed. There's nothing you can do, you know? And, uh, so I guess they're now going to just see how it goes and see where they can get time back. But, uh, yeah, Ben O'Connor is in a good position now. But to go back to Visma, I mean, this is not, you guys can tell me I'm crazy, but this is not the first time UAE struggled with breakaway.

Like this happened, what, at the 2023 tour, stage six, stage seven, where Jai Hindley gets in the early move. They just like let these things get out of control. And then by the time when they have to correct it, they have so much work to do that, you know, and maybe it won't be an issue with the tour, but it has been an issue in the past. And this is like, this plagues them and same thing, stage 20, the zero,

where Wout Van Aert gets up the road and they don't keep the gap close enough and then they lose the race because of it. So just if there's one thing I'm not impressed by is about the strategy of UAE. The strategy doesn't really matter because they have they have Pogacar and he also sometimes races strategically, not a hundred percent, but he still wins because he's so strong. Uh, let's see, let's see. I mean, I think in that part, I think, uh, this much stronger strategically there, they have better race tactics than UAE.

I would agree with that. Sure. We should also say this tour of Switzerland finishes with an uphill 10 kilometer long time trial. So as well as- Extremely hard, extremely hard. Has that in his back pocket. He's gonna do pretty well. Yeah, and you know, if you look at the profiles, Spencer, you know, at first sight,

they may not look hard, but man, there's some really long, hard mountain passes there. That on the profile, it's deceiving, but it's hard. You know, like Lance is always complaining about the tour is too sunny now, like back in his day, it rained like he just needs to watch the tour of Switzerland. I feel like every day it's like cold and rainy. Like, is that too sunny? Yeah, I'm sorry.

Do it too sunny or the classics too sunny. Both, both are too sad. The tour has always been sunny, man. Um, well, yeah, I think, cause all the cold and always been sunny, man. Yeah. I think all, cause all the cold and the rain is in Switzerland. The tour of Switzerland is like an anti-advertisement for Switzerland. You're like, ah, maybe skip that on the vacation this year. But any more thoughts guys, before we take off? Nope. That's it for me. All right. And we'll be, so Johan and I,

Johan and I, this is just a team meeting people are a part of now. We'll be back on Friday to talk about little update on Switzerland And then George you'll be back with us next Monday to talk about Switzerland, and then we'll take a little break before the tour Great. Good. Alright guys