THEMOVE - Did We All Underestimate Remco? | TdF 2026 Stage 16 | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss Remco Evenepoel's dominant time trial victory on Stage 16 and how it has transformed the battle for the final podium. They revisit their preseason doubts about Remco's Tour de France chances, debate whether he has firmly established himself as Tadej Pogačar's closest challenger, and explain why, with Jonas Vingegaard out of the race, staying consistent may now be just as important as attacking. They also break down Florian Lipowitz's crash, Isaac del Toro's growing advantage in the White Jersey competition, and preview tomorrow's mountainous Stage 17. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Hims: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://Hims.com/THEMOVE Caldera Lab: A small habit with big results. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use code THEMOVE for 20% off your first order. KetoneAid: Go to http://KetoneAid.Com/THEMOVE for 15% off Nextbets: Use our special link to see where you can bet in your area and claim the best sign-up offers https://nxtbets.com/betoutcomes/ Ventum: Use code TheMove10 for 10% off anything at: https://ventumracing.com/

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It's ODO.com. And especially Spencer, before the tour, you know, all the doubters, we were part of them also. You know, we could not see REMCO finishing on the podium. And now he's in second place. So, you know, of course, you know, we don't want it to happen. But if you're in second place and you're solidly in second, you know, the Tour de France finishes in Paris, right? We saw what happened yesterday to Jonas.

So, I mean, today is obviously, you know, great bike handler. But, you know, if something happens to the favorite, man, you're in pole position. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernil. We're breaking down stage 16 of the Tour de France at 26 kilometer time trial in Evian. Just delicious, delicious water coming out of that lake, Johan. I was thirsty the entire stage.

One by Remko Evanapole ahead of Tedd Pagachar and Mateus Schemmos, surprise third place with Paul Sixth, Isaac Deltoro, fifth. Those guys separated by just five seconds of the battle for the final podium spot and the white is still on. We'll also take a few listener questions or read them and then we'll preview tomorrow's stage 17. But Johan, just right off the top here. I mean, you must be buzzing. Remko said something about it being Belgium Day.

He wins on Belgium Day. He's now in second. Yeah. Yeah. It's the national day of Belgium. So basically, I think it's the, what is today? The 21st, so the 21st of July 1831, I think, was when Belgium became a kingdom. I think it's, I think the 21st of July, the 21st of July.

1831 was when King Leopold got sworn in as the first official king of Belgium. Before that, there's been, there have been a civil revolution and we actually belong to the Netherlands. And so, yeah, Belgian National Day Today, victory of the Belgian writer by excellence, I would say. Impressive victory. I mean, we did expect him to win, right? yesterday our prediction was Remko Havenapool wins.

I think I said about 30 seconds on today. Turned out to be 28 seconds, I think. But, you know, there was never a doubt from the start, actually. I think we saw the split time straight away. And Remko, even the pool has been in the lead the whole race. So amazing for him, you know, two stage wins in a row. He's definitely in, you know, the right form for this tour. he's sitting in second now comfortably in second after the the abandon of yonos fingerguard and

i think it's the best possible scenario for him yeah it's a great it's actually a great scenario couldn't be better scenario for him because he's got a strong red bull team they are down a rider because floin lippowitz who was on an amazing ride crashed and looked like he broke his collarbone separated his ac joint something bad with the soldier sorry he's shoulder, it looked like a terrible crash. But other than being down Lipowitz, the team does look pretty strong and they will, I assume,

defend second so fiercely. It's actually perfect for Bagachar. Now he has a lone team that's also going to want to control the race. Couldn't be better for those two guys first and second. Also pretty good for Del Toro because now he just has to hold off six ass and fourth and he has two teams

basically working to control the race for him. But man, this is an amazing, we should just say like, amazing two days from Remko Evanapole to win the mountain stage, win the time trial. It's impressive what he's doing. And especially Spencer, before the tour, you know, all the doubters, we were part of them also. You know, we could not see Remko finishing on the podium. And now he's in second place.

So, you know, of course, you know, we don't want it to happen. But if you're in second place and you're solidly in second, you know, the Tour de France finishes in Paris, right? We saw what happened yesterday to Jonas. So, I mean, today is obviously, you know, great bike handler. But, you know, if something happens to the favorite, man, you're in pole position. Well, yeah, it's a super important point because we don't wish this to happen. And, you know, I think, I think nobody would want to win the Tour de France in these circumstances.

But I always say, you know, if something happens to the favorites, somebody else is going to win. Yes. And there's nothing. I prefer it. I prefer it be me. And there's nothing wrong with racing that way, especially if you're Remko right now, you're not as strong. You're not going to beat Taday in the mountains.

And there's only mountains in Paris left between now and then. So it's probably not going to happen. Positioning yourself second. And we should say, we do hope this does not happen. I would be so sad if this happened. Of course, of course. Yesterday, Pagachar almost went down with Jonas. And today, he almost stacked it in that corner like Lipowitz.

Yeah. So being in second, it is a big deal because you are one mistake from the leader away from being in first. And he's basically two and a half minutes up on Del Toro. So it kind of looks like he's going to stay in that position. Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll see. You know, I mean, if we could also say, well, you know, in the past, he has cracked in real mountain stages. But, you know, in the last week and the way he won yesterday, first of all, it shows that he is on really good form.

He climbs really well. His form is on the up. And especially his morale is really on the up. The last week, it's a mental struggle also. It looks really good, looks skinny, looks powerful. I don't see him losing that second spot anymore, honestly. I'm just now worried that we were really hammering on this guy. Then now we're going to say, there's no way.

He loses second. And then he's going to lose second. And we're like, we're always on the wrong side of this. Spencer, you know, we've been critical of him. But I think, I think you did most of the hammering. Like, I try to stay. I try to stay more of, you know, like, I think you did most of the hammering. But, you know, I mean, listen.

I mean, also, you know what? I also want to point out, Spencer, about Remcoevenapu. Something that we, you know, constantly forget. is that it's been a long time since he had a clean run at an objective. You know, he has been struggling with crashes and injuries. And, you know, he was also in the crash in the bus country. Then in the winter, the winter after he got hit by a car. Could only start his season last year very late.

didn't, you know, didn't have an ideal preparation. And this year, he started, if you look at this season, right? So he started in Majorca, he was flying. He was basically playing with the competition. You could say, okay, it's Majorca. Then he did Volta Valenciana. Won there, like, no discussion. You know, you could say, okay, it's only Volta Valenciana.

Then he did Vorta Catalonia, and he did show weakness on the climbs. But let's not forget that he crashed on stage one. when he was away with Jonas. Yeah. Right? And then he, and then he goes and wins Amstle Gold. Let's not forget this.

I think did he not podium at Tour of Flanders somewhere along there? He podium at the Pondas. Yeah. His first ever participation in Tour Flanders podium. That was amazing. I did not expect that at all. I said on beforehand there's no way Ramco can be on the podium. He has no experience.

This is not a race for him. prove me wrong umstool he was the best there was no discussion and then a little bit of a you know disappointment in performance wise in liaisbaston liesh where he was definitely no match for today and for uh success but not a great performance but he got away with third third third place he fought back and he sprinted very dominantly to third um and then surprisingly he and the team make the decision that he's not going to race anymore. He didn't race for 64 days before the Tour of France. And, you know, they must have been doing something right because he showed up in great shape, lighter than before. And now, I mean, started the tour, was not definitely at the beginning

of the tour, was not in the form he is now. So he built up. And he said today that, you know, he needed the first week to get back into the rhythm. And so it looks like, you know, it looks like, looks like they knew what they were doing, man. And of course, you know, he had all the circumstances in his favor now also. But there he is in second place in great form, great morale. And yeah, I mean, I think Remko is one of those writers. And, you know, sometimes I think he kind of, you know, leads people on to be critical because of certain, you know, declarations or interviews.

but what a writer man what a palmaris if you look at if you look at what he has accomplished until now and he's still not an old rider it's i think it's his seventh or his eight year professional no but he's still young he uh i guess too he in an era where if you think about it the top riders almost never miss you know yonis doesn't win all the time but he's always good and rimco is this rare rider like he could lose 20 minutes at this race and we wouldn't be that shocked there's not many top writers who are just, it just feels like he's living, he's always on the edge.

You never know what's going to happen. I will say, I do think he's going to get second and that's super impressive. Yeah. The one stage I think will test him is stage 20. I didn't quite realize how hard this stage was until I went through the roadbook.

It's incredibly hard. I mean, that's, you know, what did they do the, they do the, the telegraph, the Gallibier.

So they start? No, They do the Crotterfair. Crowderfair. Yeah. Yes. Afeer, telegraph, gallibier, and then up the west from the Saren side. Which is hard.

And then there's... What is it? Like 5,000 meters of climbing? More? More. And I didn't realize the Gallibier is high, man. 26.31 meters. Yeah, no.

The Galibees is almost always the roof of the tour. Yeah. That is... And you're going from these valley floors are not that high. So that's a lot of climbing. if he makes it through that, it's super impressive. You think even just mathematics with how light he is and the power he can put out, he should be fine, especially with your illness.

I think at this point, and especially in the third week, you know, it's a different, it's a survival race now. Okay. So nobody is, except how they can still do whatever he wants because he's been doing some stages where he didn't go full gas. But everybody else is in survival mode. This is their limit. And they know where they can go.

And there's not, like, there's no. like there's no accelerations anymore. So Remko at this point, even if he gets in trouble, he's gotten really, really good at riding his pace. And that pace is still very high and won't lose a lot of time. You know, compared to obviously also riders who are also super tired. You know, I mean, like the performances of Sexas and Del Toro,

which are his main rivals now for the podium, they're also not fresh anymore, right? and said they're also getting tired. So I think Remko can stay in second. I tend to agree. I think his style of writing is perfect for holding second. Do you think he's going to drop Bagachar and win the Tour de France in the third week? Absolutely not.

No chance. Okay. Zero or zero percent chance. So now that we've established that, was the money worth it for Red Bull? We have to revisit this question that we asked earlier this week. Yeah, we did question that decision, right? And you never know, you never know how it's going to turn out. I would say for the moment, it's, you know, I mean, if he's second in the tour and wins two stages,

definitely, you know, the best possible transfer that was available on the market, I would say, in terms of results. Because who else were they going to sign if it was not today? You know, del Toro is at best going to be third, I think. and win the white jersey maybe if he keepsakes us in front of him. That was the only other rider, I would say, attractive rider and potential. I guess one is you so. No.

No, it's not. It's not. It's definitely not the same category rider as a remember. But he was like available, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there you could also question, you know, that transfer, you know, I mean, if the rumors are true.

I mean, it's even a more expensive transfer because apparently. it was 10 million they paid. I don't know if that's true, actually. I mean, I really struggled to believe that's true. But, you know, still, Juan Ayuso for the moment is sitting in fifth place. We said a few days ago that, you know, being in the top five, the top 10, you have to be a really good, really good background. Being top five in the tour, I mean, look at all the competition, you know, I mean, that's definitely the best possible place for Ayuso. if you look pogacha, Remko even the pool del Toro and sex us.

These guys are better than him. End of the story. Yeah. And we should say, I still know if it's worth it, but if he gets second, if he gets second, as we said, he could win because you're in second. If something happens, you could win. So maybe it is worth it. Also, Red Bull would be in a bit of trouble, if not for Remko right now.

If Lipowitz crashes out and that's all, all your eggs are in the Lipowitz basket, yeah. It's huge to have a second leader. That's what, that's what happens to Visma, right? right now right yep um so i mean and plus plus also i mean another added factor to the transfer of remco even a pool even if i still think it's extremely expensive but you know if you get second now in the tour you could say you know what you know it's it's worth it we can build on that you know he's a strong leader but also as a personality he is quite outspoken and he doesn't leave anybody

indifferent. You can you can do something as a brand with the name Remcoevenable, with the personality, which in cycling is not that easy. There are not many really good cyclists that are super marketable. That's true. For example, I don't know the guy, you never spoke to him, Florian Lipowitz. He's a good bike rider, but it's completely the opposite. There's nothing marketable there except good performances, right? German. And he's German. Yeah. That's a very good example. I would even say that I mean, as a as a whole package in terms of marketability, I would dare to say, and I don't think I'm mistaken that Remko Avenapool for a sponsor is a lot more attractive than Jonas Wingergaard.

Yeah, I think you are right, probably. Because, you know, it's different personalities, right? But And they win a good amount too. As a sponsor, I think I would prefer Remko to be my spokesperson and promoter and ambassador than Jonas. Who would you rather be the director of? I mean, I'd love to be the director of Remko, but I don't know if he would listen. I don't think so. Yeah, I feel like he honest might be. I don't think he would take any of any.

I don't know. I don't know. It seems that they have, you know, the right people around him. You know, he's very happy with the staff. He's very happy with the coaching, the trainers, the engineers. They have a really incredible resources to put people around a project. And today he was very appreciative and grateful towards the team and the staff. So I think he's super happy.

And how would you rate Tadipagatra's performance today? I expected this. I mean, I said 30 seconds. I think he, I mean, I think he was, I mean, I did not expect him to win against Remke. But, yeah, very solid. Didn't need to do anything, anything else. You know, if it would be one minute, for example, I'd say, you know, not a great performance.

He would still have been second in the race. Which is crazy. Today stage. But I think he did a really good time trial, man. I mean, he was solid. You know, obviously, for sure, Ramco took more risks than today, for sure. Just that corner, that specific corner where Lipowitz crashed. Remko must also have had the information, you know,

But if you see the difference in speed, I mean, today came out of that corner like almost standing still. You know, he had to break and correct and try to stay upright. So that was a bit of a scary moment. Although I have to say, Spencer, it always looks a lot scarier when you look at it. I'm sure that today was like, okay, shit.

That was that was not good, but just, you know, kept going on. It's a very good point. We should also say, so he's 14 seconds down at the top of the climb at the T2. So as Lance said, it makes sense that he would say, well, I'm not going to make up 14 seconds on Rimco. I might as well just limit. Just be safe. Finish 20 seconds back. That's, I think, a great ride.

Just to give you a feeling for how far ahead Remko and Pagacchar. So they were 52, Pagachra was 52 seconds ahead of Six Soss and Del Toro, who had the same time at the top of the climb, by the way. But he was 52 seconds faster than them. Like, that's pretty impressive at the midway point. On a climb. Yeah. On a climb. On a climb.

So, and I think we've seen maybe, Remko is a very good time trial climber for reasons unknown. It doesn't totally transfer over the road. But that, like, I think that these are the bubbles we are starting to see. Pagachar and Evanapole are probably close-ish to each other. And then you have the next bubble back is Siksaas and Del Toro. And then the bubble behind them is Iuso. It's the little Trek guys. I use so, Shkomo.

Even though Skomoza was really good today on the climb. But, Johan. Skiyel Mosa did a really, really good time trial today. And also Saksas, but especially also Del Toro. I expected Del Toro to lose more time on Sexas, and he only lost five seconds because Del Toro is, you know, it's a strong rider, but he's not known to be a really, really good time trialist. And he did really well, and he looked good on the bike and was very solid, you know.

So Del Toro did a great ride today. was just one of the only time trials that I've ever watched where I'm like everybody did great pretty much all the gc conditions like a pretty good ride actually I used one I also didn't I used to didn't do a good time trial no he's two 22 back and then yeah the issue he's having as he's not as a good of a climber as a lot of these guys so if he lost he lost a minute 20 on on his teammates Gilmosa and a minute on six ass and a total so that's too much not great at all. But Johan, how are these guys, these guys who are, they're flying on the bikes?

Is there something they could be doing, some sort of supplement that could be helping that go so fast? Definitely. I mean, they're all, they all, all the two the France riders are, uh, we, it's very well documented taking ketone. So we are lucky to have ketone aid, uh, as a new sponsor of the podcast. Aitone eight was one of the first companies to put a pure, pure ketone ester on the market.

It's very well known by the professional writers. It's great to having him finally as the official sponsor on the podcast, but it's something that I've known. It's a brand that I've known for the last five, six years. I have recommended it to certain people and teams. They are also the official team sponsor of Sudal-Quigstep and XDS Astana, two teams that are using it in this two different. So last year, I don't know what Red Bull is using now.

They have not been public about it. But last year, Remko was on ketone 8, the little bottle that you see very often after the finish. So you just base. I mean, this is a little bottle of 25 grams of pure ketone ester. So you can just take a little sip. This has 10 servings, by the way. So you can use it. I mean, professional riders obviously use more, more quantity of ketone ester.

but so this is an ester. This is very, very important to know the difference between ketone ester and many other products that are on the market and sometimes very popular. They're either ketone salts or ketone dials, which don't work as good as the ketone ester. Now, there's also a part of ketones. There's also, if you've seen Spencer, there's a lot of talks about this new gel. that riders and teams are using the lactate gel. I've done some research. I've asked ketone 8. So ketone 8 is actually working on producing one of those lactate products,

but you hear this first here. It's not on the market yet. It's coming. This is going to be a lactate ester. So nothing compared to the same thing. Lactate salts are now also being used or not as effective. It has limited. the intake is more difficult. So there is a lactate ester coming. You heard this here first. Anyways, so for the move listeners and viewers, there's a special action during the Tour de France.

You go to ketoneaid.com or you scan the flow code here on the screen. And you use the code the move at checkout for 15% off until the end of the Tour de France. 15% off for at ketone8.com slash the move. I mean, everyone's using these lactate gels now. These guys going under two hours in the marathon. Apparently a lot of the... We'll see what the science is, but apparently it's the same difference as with the ketone. There are ketone salts and dials with these lactate gels.

It's the same thing. So apparently it also needs to be an ester, which is. this pure concentration of lactate. And the studies show that you can apparently use more energy and more glucose when you take these lactate supplements. Fascinating stuff. Someone who probably forgot their ketone esters this morning, Wain Ouso, we mentioned he loses 222 in the race. This is pretty stunning. You said this fact earlier.

So Juan Euso's fifth overall in the tour, third in the white jersey classification and kind of out of it at 231 back. Have you ever seen anything like this? This is, you know, what we're seeing in this modern cycling, you know. So third and fourth and fifth are in competition for the white jersey. And all of them are extremely young. You know, there's none of these who are over 23. No? of always one on you're already 23 well he's 23 he just turned 23 okay okay so you know I mean it's for

the moment it's under 25 right the the limit for the yeah so he's two years left yeah um I mean last year Ramco was still in the running for the for the white jersey by the way I mean two years ago Tad I won it yeah but they wanted like four times no in a row or something oh I mean he must have won it every year between 2020 and 2024 yeah that matches So five times. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember the last French rider to win?

The last French rider to win the white jersey? It's a tricky little question here. The last French rider to win the white jersey. I think I know, but I forgot his name now. Is it Pierre Latour? Yeah, 2018. And you know who he beat? Pierre Latour.

He beat Egan Bernal. Who? Egan Bernal, oh, wow. Who won the tour the next year. Oh, wow. Okay. Like, what the heck happened to Pierre Latour? Yeah.

To come back on Bramco Spencer and his amazing track records, I've seen a stat somewhere. If you take out team time trials and pure uphill time trials, for example, last year's time trial in the tour was, you know, to Perraguide. That was more a mountain stage and a time trial, right? Same thing with the Monaco one, or we counting Monaco to Nice is a mountain time trial? trial? Yes. Yes. So take those out. The pure time trials, Remko has won

19 of the 19 last individual pure time trials in his career. Crazy. 19 times. Crazy. Yeah. Well, I said on the show, I was like, can you guys remember the last time he didn't win a time trial? And if you felt out the mountain. Right.

But if you filter out those mountain ones, it is a long time ago a long time ago have we ever seen anyone this dominant like was Miguel and Doreen like this no I mean it was it was different it was different

I mean and also Miguel was more of pure to the France rider you know and so it was completely different the time trials were 50 or 60 kilometers you know not the same sport I remember Miguel losing time to us in

a racist. Sometimes even in the Giro, sometimes he won the time trial. Sometimes he didn't win the time trial. No, that's not, that's different. I mean, Ramco is a pure, pure, pure time trialist, you know, that position. I mean, Miguel was the strongest guy, but his position was just awful. I mean, imagine that guy would have had a good aerodynamic time trial position. That was, it would have been crazy. Well, same thing with Jan Orick. We went through some of his pictures. Yeah. Oh, man. I mean, Remko's position is unbelievable. Well, it's perfection.

It's perfection. It's as close to perfection as it can be. Yes. Which, you know, then you look, for example, today has improved a lot. Del Toro also has, I mean, they obviously worked a lot on it, but it's not as perfect as a rampos position. Well, and that's the difference. Those guys are improving and working on positions that you would say were almost quite poor. But Remko just naturally, it's perfect.

Because his body can get in, because anyone can like get arrow, right? But can you produce power and stay in that position? But not many people can do that. You know, how much work do you put in? How obsessed are you about it? I mean, Ramco is obsessed about, I mean, he, I don't think, yeah, he does have the best position. But I would dare to say that there's nobody in the Peloton who has worked so hard on the time trial position as Ramco even. You know, that's why he's the best.

I mean, then if you have the power, if you can produce that power in that position, you're unbeatable. Then there you go, folks. That's all you have to do. Just work real hard at your position. Well, you know, let's take a quick break. And then I have a question for you about some jerseys. And then we can preview tomorrow's stage. Everybody, this episode is brought to by Hymns.

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You pointed this out to me before we started the show. So UAE probably going to win the overall. They could win KOM with Tade Pagacchar. I think he will accidentally win this. They could win youth with Deltoro. And today, they're now within 23 seconds of the team's classification. Are they going for this? Is this a priority?

Yeah, it's clear. It's obvious, Spencer. Otherwise, they would not care. You know, of course, they had Pulitzer and Del Toro doing a great time time, but they on purpose had the third guy go full gas, which normally would be not necessary. I've seen these interviews of Tim Wellens and Flodian Vermeerz, who said publicly that they would love to be on the podium at the Tour de France with the team. And, I mean, especially with the stages we still have ahead.

I mean, it's a little track in the lead now, right? So tomorrow's going to be a tricky stage for that because if there's a breakaway, little track is going to have several riders in there. So UAE would have to have several riders also. Otherwise, they can take a long time. But they definitely go for TeamGC, which now starts to make sense when we go back to, when we question certain actions of UAE, why are they riding so hard? Why are they keeping it so close? You know, they first they say, ah, you know, it's just to stay together.

But then these interviews of Florida and Vermeerche and Tim Well, were quite revealing that they were going for Team G.C. And I actually also saw one writer. I don't know. I don't remember who it was. I think it was a guy from Jekal when he was asked the question. It was it was a stage seven or eight. I don't remember.

You know, why did you aides? It's very simple. Team G. So, Johan, the UA is a strong team. You could say the strongest team in the race. That brings me into a question I have for you from both. Let's do the reader question, the listener question. And then I'm going to add to it.

the question somebody else asked me. So this question is, with Vinegar dropping out, there's no one on Tate's level. And they said, even with him in the race, there's probably no one on Tattie's level. Hypothetically, if the other seven riders on UAE had some American lettuce and had a drop out of the race, could Tate still win on his own? How many teammates does he really need? Because if he's working for Deltoro, he clearly doesn't need all seven. Do you think he could win this with no teammates? By himself, it would be a big challenge.

I'm going to say difficult, but then again... Would it be a challenge? Well, yes. Or would just drop everybody? Well, I mean, especially with the hard stages, his best strategy would be, okay, I'm just going to go hard on the first climb and then it's just a race between five or six guys, right? Now, controlling five more...

They're controlling five more stages without any teammate. That's not easy. Because they would like, GC guys would get in the early breakaway. Is that the concern? Well, I mean, it also changes because now, for example, if Lipovitz would still be in the race and Red Bull has two guys, it's not easy, but still, it's still doable.

Now, what I do think, however, is that even if Bogacha is by himself, he could use certain dynamics that are proper to the Tour de France because everything in the last week becomes so important top 10, top 5 that there would always be somebody coming to the rescue to defend

their position. What we see normally, even when he has a team, we see that sometimes they don't have to work because there's a guy like pitcocker's in the break and plates, the seventh spot is under threat, for example. And Bahrain comes to the front, right? For example. So things like

that could be used to his advantage. I mean, one thing is for sure, he would not win team G.C. And somebody else asked me, they're like, well, why doesn't Red Bull, decathlon, little trek, I'll team up on him. But it's because of what you just said.

A, they're not going to do that. They're just not going to do it because they are competing against each other. But now you have Decahathlon and Red Bull are competing against each other and little for the podium. And to them, that's more important than Pagachar because Pagachar is untouchable in the mountains. Yeah. What's even the point? So I think if he had no teammates tomorrow, he almost, it would not affect him because he just would follow Red Bull. Yeah.

Because they're going to control the race. He needs to follow two guys, two guys, you know. So basically Remko and sex us because the total would be out, right? Yeah. So it would not matter. Because the thing is also that, you know, all these other guys can't win anymore anyways. And Remko and Sexas are going to race against each other. So these teams cannot win with somebody else.

They only only have one card to play. So he could still win it. Yeah. I mean also, too, if I just imagine Lipowitz and Remko are both in this race. Okay, let's say Lipowitz gets in the breakaway. But then wouldn't Pagachar just jump? He would just bridge across. the gap, right? Yeah, there's not many, there's not many guys to, to, to, to supervise, you know, so,

yeah. But let's say he goes in, it would be interesting actually. It would actually be, they should think about implementing this. But let's say what takes, that takes 10 minutes and then what he's up by two minutes, three minutes. So stage 20 rolls around. It starts on an HC climb, 24K long. If Pagacha really wanted to, he could have it. whittled down to just himself by the top of the cold of la qua fere and then he's doing the galibia the telegraph to the galibia and up to alptois he could put he could put 10 minutes into someone like lippowitz right especially if lippowitz had been in the breakaway not really not really not really i don't know man it's a bit much of a playstation theory that spencer do you think if bagacha

was man to man against these guys i think he would yeah i think it would be ugly no he wouldn't put 10 minutes in no not 10 minutes no i don't he he's putting him he put a minute into these guys on stage what was that on stage uh 14 he attacked 1k from the top and he put a minute into them i don't i don't know like think about stage six he puts how much time does he put he puts three minutes into these guys you know and that's not even a really hard final climb like 10 minutes is a lot but you wouldn't want to to see him. I think you're better off with him having a team. If he by himself, he could still win, I think. You're better off with him having a team, actually, because it means he's not going to attack.

Here's my next question. There with Remko, Del Toro, it's Del Toro Pagachar, Remko. Remko drops Del Toro. What does Pagachar do? Is he a full-on Domestique at this point? Does he stay with del Toro? If Ramco drops Del Toro, Pagach stays with Remko. There's no way he wait. for L'Otoe. No way. Johan, you. I mean, if I would be his director, I would say, no way, you stay with number two, man. Come on. That's enough of this bullshit, you know.

If I was working at L'Kip, I'd be cooking up. I'd be sharpening the knives. I'd be ready for this because then you can say, look at this terrible teammate. He's terrible. He's awful. He left Deltoro on his own. Does he care? I mean, he's shown already enough loyalty and, and, you know, favors to, uh,

You know, I mean, as long as there's nothing happening, I think, I mean, if you look at it now, the situation for Del Toro is actually not too bad because if Remko wants to, first of all, Pogacchar doesn't have to attack at all. Okay. He probably will. I hope so, but he doesn't have to. So basically, the race is Remko. and if Remko is feeling good and he sets a temple, that's good for Del Toro. Yes, exactly. Remco could be the ideal domestic for Del Toro to preserve his third place and his white jersey. Yeah, just like stay with Remko. He's never going to change space. Like, he's your guy.

But yeah, I don't know. The media, like when you work in the media, though, your mind isn't what makes sense. What should the writers do? It's what can I write that will get people interested? And basically can I warp reality to what I want it to be with my writing. And so I would be exploring the possibility of like now that Pagacha has, it's a really weird situation, we should say. Because Johan, what is Pagaccha getting out of this situation?

Del Toro is not really working for him. How many minutes has he pulled for him? Two minutes in this entire race? And Pagacch are pulled for. No, no, no, no, the total, I think, 30 seconds. 30 seconds. On Tourmalet, no, that's it. Yeah.

And so what exactly, what exactly has, well, I guess he pulled back the attacks on stage two. So let's shock it. Let's say a minute, minute total. Yeah. What exactly is pedestrian? On the last climb, he also did the lead out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

What's he getting out of this? Well, I mean, listen, it's great. for the team atmosphere. They get along really well. They have the same agent. For Pogacchar, it's great to keep this young upcoming talent super happy because he will still need him for a few years. So I think it's fine. I think it's fine, you know, but I don't expect if Deltoro cannot follow Remko, there is no way that Pogachar is going to to wait for de Toto. He needs, if you're, if you're leading and the number two goes ahead, you stay with the number two.

That's, I mean, it's very, I mean, it's textbook 101, you know? I want to see it. I want to see him hanging back, working for Deltoro. So stage 17 tomorrow, this is a really weird stage, 175K long, four categorized, four categorized climbs in the first 60 kilometers. then a long, hilly, bumpy stage. Like they start in Chamboree. They do a loop end up back in Chamboree with around 100K to go.

And then they go out into the countryside, rolling bumps, sprint point 147K into the race, which could be really important. And then there's a finish, but there's a climb 2.5K at 4% that tops out around 4K from the finish line. How does this stage play out? Is this breakaway sprint? What is this? It's a tricky one, Spencer. You know, you would say normally this is ideal terrain for a breakaway. I mean, this three fourth category climbs and then one third category climbs.

So this is at the beginning. So that's ideal terrain for groups. It's going to be very aggressive during the first 50 kilometers, I would say. Yeah, the first 50K, yeah, 59K to be in the break. add to that that a little track will want

a breakaway up the road with Matt Spederson in it or if he can't be in it some other teammates in it because their main goal is the green jersey tomorrow is a crucial day

for the green jersey if Matt Speterson tomorrow gets that sprint which comes very late in the race actually after 147 kilometers if tomorrow Matt Spaterson is in the break

and gets that sprint, you would think that normally on that terrain in the first 50K, it's in favor of Matt Spaderson to be able to be in the break. And normally both Philipson and Giermae will struggle to be in the break. They will try to be in it, but they will struggle. So then it's just the question of how can Alpacin and NSN get organized? organized. Can they keep their guys together and bring the breakaway back? It's going to be an interesting stage. Now, I would say normally it's a breakaway stage, especially because we're now in week three. 85% of the peloton is cooked really dead and also has no more goal other than getting to Paris. Now, the teams, of course, the team directors will, you know, have plans and

It's one of the last stages left to be in the break and try to have a stage victory. So it will be difficult at the same time having a break go up the road is also difficult to be in there. But I've checked this stage, Spencer, and this is almost the same stage as last year's tour of Spain, finished in the same town, similar final and also the beginning of the stage. stage was hilly, but it was actually a harder stage. They did three climbs, one third category climb and two second category climbs. They did Mont-Geneuve and called the Lottare, which is the back side of the Galibier. And that stage had 3,000 meters of climbing. Tomorrow stage only has 2,300 meters of climbing. And stage four, but it was stage four, so the first week,

It was a bunch print. One by Ben Turner. Second was Jasper Phillips. So I would say, you know, I don't know. I would say advantage breakaway because it's in week three. And there's not enough resources left for teams to get organized and to bring it back. But very similar stage, actually harder stage. Same final.

Stage four last year was a breakaway in the Volta, Spain. Also, Veltaspania and through the France, it's not the same. It's a different competition. What happens, though, if it takes... It takes a long time for the break to form. They get back to Chamboree. There's no break. With the sprinter's teams, they can't...

I mean, this is probably their last chance. Would they go all out to control it and it's a sprint? I think, for example, Alpacin will definitely... And even NSN, I think they will. I think they will. And Astana. And Astana. Astana, co-fit is probably.

Yeah. Yeah. It's tricky. So, and if you, this is going to, this is going to blow your mind, these odds. So if you want to bet on this, we have a deal with next bets. So go to nxttbets.com slash bet outcomes. You'll see exactly where you can bet the best prices. For example, actually, there's a really interesting one, margin of victory.

we can sort through here. Three to five minutes is plus 130. Five to seven minutes plus 133. I kind of like that one. I don't think it's going to be more. Is that for G.C? For G. Yeah, for final G.C.

I don't think it's going to be. Five to seven. You don't think more than seven, right? That's minus 115. Could be. Could be. Yeah. Yeah, could be.

I could see five to seven here. So, well, I mean, there's two stages where Pogacha will take more time. So, yeah, it could be more time. If you takes a minute each stage, we're pushing up to seven already. That's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That is an issue. You still have Paris. You still have Paris. But I don't think, I don't think that Pogacca can, will drop Remko on the Paris stage. Well, what if Framco sits up? What if they neutralize the time again? They're not going to neutralize it. If it doesn't rain, if it doesn't rain, if it's not going to neutralize it.

And Remko has won the Olympic Games there on that circuit. True. Whole race that. Okay. All right. And this year also, I mean, we're going to talk about it the day before, but this year, the course is different. True. The climb is further from the finish.

It's 12K. whereas last year I think it was five or six K from the finish. Yeah. So there are people who say that bunch sprint is not impossible. Yeah, those clients. No, no, or some sprinters might make over it. Might might make it over the. Yeah, more of like a classic style sprint.

Probably not a bunch sprint because you can't get your lead out. It's so narrow. You can't get your lead out over that thing. No. Right? No. Yeah. I still don't think the sprinters are making it because the GC guys are going to go for it.

Yes. Okay. So if I click through to the stage, stage 17, these are the odds in draft kings. Mads Pedersen plus 350 makes sense. Second place, Jasper Phillips and plus 450. Olaf Coy plus 650. Matthew Vanderpull plus 650. Benjamin Grimae plus 1400.

Philippe O'Gana plus 2,200. Quinn Simmons plus 2,800. So the book thinks it's a mix of bunch of bunch of. sprint or breakaway? I mean, the fact that Philipson is the second favorite, that means that, that, I mean, Philipson can also be in the break, you know? But who in their right mind would work with him? A bunch sprint is not, is not impossible.

I, I kind of think it's going to be bunch sprint. The more I look at this, who would you pick to win the stage? I'm going to take Mativandre Poul, man. plus 650. I think that would be more likely than I just can't imagine. If Philipson's in a breakaway, you might as well just sit up, right? What are we doing here? I don't know if I'd want to work with him to take him to the line.

I'm going to go. I am going to go. I can't believe I'm doing this. Quinn Simmons plus 2,800. Quinn Simmons from the breakaway. Mm-hmm. Over Vanderpull. I mean, realistically, Vanderpull probably wins that duel, but just with the price, Quinn Simmons plus 2,800.

But if you really think about stage 15, how strong he was, he might be one of the strongest riders in this race. He's incredibly strong. He's on an incredible good form. Today took it easy on purpose. So because who was the third guy from Little Trek who went fast today then? Because they had to have three guys to go fast. let's see that's a good question actually

little trek they had Derek G Derek G that's why you bring them for these days when you need it the MGC guy in a time trial but like Quinn Simmons what I don't like about this he probably went quite fast because he finished his 47th on the day

but like well he didn't look like he was pushing it maybe we like where is Vanderpull Yeah. In the 80s something. In the 90s? That's what I want to see.

Yep. Yeah. That's a guy who's getting ready to win the stage tomorrow. Interesting. Okay. So I'm going to go Quinn Simmons, you go Vanderpull. And are we ready for Ventum Trivia? Yeah.

Bring it on. All right. Well, if you want to play, go to Ventimracing.com slash the move. Enter your answer there and you'll be entered to win. $5,000 toward. a bike of your choice could be an NS1 the road bike just brand new redesign the GS1 the gravel bike also been redesigned it takes massive tires now but is also light and fast like a road bike so ventum racing dot com slash the move to play that so the last question we had was who won on the summit finish

at the tour overn rome alps just a few weeks before the tour the summit finish we had on sunday stage 15 the answer was isaac del toro Interestingly, he rode quite a bit faster on the tour, did not win, and looked like he was in trouble. But that was basically our eyes lying to us because he was almost a minute faster than he was at the dofine when he won the overall and won the race. So it shows you how much the tour is at a higher level than these other races. Yeah. So today's question is stage 16 was an individual time trial. Bradley Wiggins, one of the best of all time.

won the 2012 tour to France and then went on to win the Olympic gold in the time trial just a couple days later what made that feat historically unique so if you know the answer to that go to ventumracing.com slash the move

and enter your answer you can also use code the move 10 for 10% off while you're there to buy anything you want do you know the answer Johan don't say it but do you know it? I didn't know it until I saw this So he won the time trial and the tour? What was it quick?

He won the tour and the Olympic time trial. Why is that unique? To win the Tour of France and the Olympic time trial in the same year. But as Bradley pointed out, pros could not contest the Olympics until 1996, which I also kind of forgot about. But anything else, Johan, before we take off? You know who was the first professional right?

or to win the Olympic time draw. Miguel and Drain, right? Yeah. Atlanta. Yeah. Did Frankie and Dreu or something finish on the podium of that road race? I think he was four now, right? Fourth, I think.

Yeah. The podium was Pascal Richard, Max Chandra, and Rolf Serenson. Man, Max Chonery, that was a big result. Holy smokes. Jeez. Pascal Richard is from Switzerland, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

And the Atlanta Olympics were big for cycling the first. And it was Barcelona. It was amateurs. The cycle before. 92. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Well, we will speak tomorrow, Johan. And have a good evening.