THEMOVE - Does Pogačar's Vuelta Decision Hurt His Chances of a Worlds Title Defense? | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: August 14, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss the tragic death of Finlay Tarling at the Volta a Portugal before getting into what Tadej Pogačar's decision to start the Vuelta a España means for his chances at the Worlds. They also go through a roundup of recent results, like Wout van Aert's impressive showing at the Tour of Denmark, and transfers, including rumors of Primož Roglič going to Lotto-Intermarché, and what Isaac del Toro renewing with UAE means for his future as a Tour de France contender, and whether it kills any chance of Paul Seixas going to the superteam. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team Quince: Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/THEMOVE for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Hims: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://Hims.com/THEMOVE Caldera Lab: A small habit with big results. Go to https://CalderaLab.com/THEMOVE and use code THEMOVE for 20% off your first order. Gusto: Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/themove, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at https://gusto.com/themove Square: Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at https://square.com/go/themove! #squarepod  

I think it's a huge announcement, Spencer. It shows that he absolutely wants to have those three grand tours in the pocket. He made a great tour of France, of course. We all have seen that. I've heard actually today, today I was with somebody who has been working with UAE in the past as a staff member there and still has good contacts with some of the staff members. And apparently the last week, Ogachar was never, never going full gas of the Tour de France. So he was basically, you know, trying to nurse La Toro to the podium and already thinking about the Vuelta.

Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Brunel. We haven't spoken to each other. I don't remember how to speak. We haven't spoken to each other in a little while, Johann, but we will catch everyone up on what has happened in men's professional cycling since we've last had a show. Before we get into that, though, we need to mention the extremely sad news that Finlay Tarling from the NSN development team just 19 years old, unfortunately died at the Vulta Portugal today following a serious accident that occurred during stage eight of the race where he, at least as far as we know, collided with an oncoming car that was. not part of the race convoy so obviously a horrible mistake was made at some point it's something

that have obviously this is terrible but it is just something that's happening seems to be happening far too often in professional cycling we've had too many young riders pass away from dangerous course conditions uh johan what do you have any thoughts on this before we get into the show well i mean it hits it hits hard especially spencer i have a young son who races he's 17 so he's only two years younger than guy. And it puts things in perspective, right? I mean, what can be worse than this unfortunate event of today, the accident in a race where things are supposed to be traffic free? Obviously, I don't know the details, but from what I can gather was an upcoming car. I don't know if that car ignored the instructions of whoever was blocking the traffic. But as a rider, you're in a race. you assume that you have a free road in front of you. So, I mean, I can only imagine how hard this is, this is terrible news for, first of all, for the family, for his friends, for his team, and for the whole cycling world. So my thoughts and prayers are with them. It has happened

in the past. And so obviously, more needs to be done to try to prevent this. But unfortunately, these are accidents. I'm pretty sure. I mean, Obviously, you know, from a distance and knowing what I know, this is going to be the fault of the driver because it's impossible that he can be on the course without having ignored a signal that's supposed to block the traffic. So, yeah, I mean, I'm speechless. Speechless. And, you know, this podcast obviously means nothing compared to the sad news we just learned just before recording this. So may he rest in peace, younger brother of Joshua Tarling. I mean, Joshua Tarling is a really young writer.

And he has a younger brother that just passed away today is just horrific news. Yeah, I cannot imagine what he's going through. Heart goes out to him. That's terrible. Yeah, it hits home when you think about how young Josh Tarling is, and that his younger brother has passed away. It's awful. I'm at a loss of words.

Don't even really know what to say. Can't imagine going through that. I mean, do you think, is there any learnings from this? Or is it just going to be business as usual? Just like carry on. Hope this doesn't happen again. Probably will, though. It doesn't seem like anything ever gets safer.

I just saw, I mean, I didn't see. Obviously, they canceled today stage after the accident. There's, I think there's two more stages left, Saturday, Sunday. the initial reports that I see is that the race is going to go on, going to keep going to keep going. So I don't know if that's the right thing to do. If the Peloton is, you know, has the energy and the mental toughness to keep going, through Portugal is a hard race.

And there's two really hard stages. So I don't know, man. I don't know what the right thing to do is, as I said, accidents do happen. I remember a long time ago, you know, I experienced first had the unfortunate accident of Fabio Casartelli in the Tour de France. I was actually closely involved in that crash also. And yeah, the race, we didn't know until we got to the finish line what happened. And then the day after, the race was neutralized and then the race went on. So I don't know what's going to happen.

And I don't know what the solution is. To me, it looked like Tour of Portugal was a well-organized race. You know, unfortunately, you can have a really good organized race and an unfortunate incident happens. And you can have a shitty organization and nothing happens. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yes. It's a difficult one. It's a difficult one to make, to judge.

Yeah. It is a little weird to me that the race is going on. But I mean, if you think about, I don't know, I guess the Munich Olympics, there was a terrible, terrible, multiple murders of athletes and they continued with the Olympics. Yes, Spencer, but in the meantime, we're several tens of years later, you know, things change. Well, imagine this, though, like at the World Cup, let's say a player was like mowed down by, you know, I don't know, like a lawnmower. and Fantino would keep that thing going. They're not stopping the World Cup. The biggest events.

Yeah, I mean, if you look at the bigger events, the biggest events, you will not stop the Tour de France. You will not stop the Olympic Games. You will not stop the World Cup. Because it's just too big of a business. And, you know, they'll have some kind of action taken, you know, and everything is, you know, in context. I don't know what's going to happen with the Tour of Portugal.

I would say, you know, so close to the finish, let's just all go home, guys. Let's just, you know, nobody can be in their right. I agree, yeah. You know? Yeah. I guess we don't know. We don't know what they're going to do. Maybe they don't do the race.

They could decide that tonight. Maybe they didn't have the ability to make that decision so quickly after the news came out. But I guess there was an NFL game recently where a writer or sorry, a player. I think medically died and then was brought back, was resuscitated back, and they did cancel the game. So there's precedent of that happening, even at the top level of sport. But I hope they don't continue the race. I think I don't think you're right. I don't think anyone's going to be in the right headspace.

It just seems like the right thing to do, especially with two days left. Yeah. We'll see what they, we'll see what happens. But it's hard, it's hard to segue out of this. But for the rest of the show, we're just going to run down a few items that have had the racing updates, news items that have happened since we've last spoke. The biggest of them, Johan, being the news that Tadipajar is doing La Valle, Spain. I believe you said this on the tour show or the tour, the move plus during the tour. You said that the prince of Monaco said he was doing it.

Turned out the prince knew what he was talking about. Yeah. And he is doing it. Are you surprised by this? Some people said, well, the prince has said that he will be at the start of the Vuelta. And then people said, yeah, of course he's going to be there. He lives in Monaco. But, you know, if then afterwards you hear the interview of Pogaccha when he was confronted with,

because Pugachar didn't know that Prince Albert had said this. And he was confronted with it after the stage. And he said, well, if that's what the prince said, I think I will be there. you know so so yeah i mean i think i think it's a huge announcement spencer uh it shows that he absolutely wants to have those three grand tours in the pocket um he uh i mean he did a great great tour of course we all seen that um i've heard actually today today i was with somebody who has has been working with ua in the past uh as a staff member there and still has could good contacts with some of the staff members.

And apparently, the last week, Ogachar was never, never going full gas of the Tour de France. So he was basically, you know, trying to nurse L'Toto to the podium and already thinking about the Vuelta. Kind of makes sense in retrospect. You know, if you think about the last week of that tour, he was definitely holding back. and it's kind of crazy to think that he was preparing for a different grand tour during the grand tour. He kind of did the same thing in the Giro that he did before the tour. So he clearly knows what he's doing. Lance was quite a loss for war.

He couldn't believe this because in his mind he's like, why are you not going on vacation? What are you doing? But if you think about it, well, his season's not done. He wants to win the world championships. He wants to win Lombardia. He can't go on vacation and just peace out for four months. he has to train. Is this good training for the world championships?

I think there's a different way to look at this, Spencer, in terms of is this good training for professional cyclists? And then is this good training for the Bogota? It's a different point. Yeah, good point. A good point. It's a different point of view. I don't exactly know yet who's going to be at the start of the Vuelta,

but it looks to me like probably the best. biggest contender for Pogacar in the Vuelta is going to be Felix GAL, I think. Based on what we've seen in the Giro and then based on what we've seen in the Tour of Burgos, Pagachar doesn't need to be in top shape to win the Vuelta. He's going to win the Vuelta. If nothing, if there's no accidents or no unfortunate events happening, Pugacchara wins the Vuelta. So I think he wants to win the three ground tours. I think it makes sense.

it fits in the schedule. He's feeling good. He didn't do the Gero. He was very selective in his races, in his classic races, and his buildup towards the Tour de France and still feels great. And on top of that, I have also learned from people who are close to him that he's just a guy who loves to ride his bike and race. You know, some people say, yeah, he's not chasing records.

He's not chasing stats. personally I don't believe that 100%. He has. You know, I think he's checking off the list. Otherwise, he would not, there are other ways to prepare the end of season, especially after the spring he had, the tour he had. You know, the tour of Spain, it's still three weeks of racing, right? And it's not easy.

Even if you're Taday Pogacar, it's wearing you out. It's going to be hot. If you look at, I mean, we're going to talk about the Vuelta in a few weeks, but if you look at the map, whereas the Vuelta last year was all in the north. I live in Madrid, so I live in the center of the country. Last year was all north of Madrid. This year is all south of Madrid.

I can't believe they've done that. You know, they start in Monaco and then they go to Nora, I think, right? Yeah. But then the majority of the stages is all south of Madrid, you know, from Valencia down towards Granada. which is crazy and it's going to be unbelievably hot. You know, if July was hot, I mean, imagine what's, you know, end of August, beginning of September in the south of Spain. Well, here's my zag on that, though, Johan.

We're going through this thing in Europe where, you know, you look at the start of the Vuelta next week in Granada. It's not starting in Granada. It's going to finish in Granada. I'm just looking at Granada. We're looking at in Celsius. We're looking at 31 degrees. That's a cold day in London. That's pretty good.

So, that's pretty good. You know, maybe going to the south of Spain is the best place for the race. It's going to be cooler than the cold weather places. Yeah. It's the world upside down. But anyways,

I think Pugachar is, of course, he's the big favorite. You know, normally he wins the Vuelta. They're bringing a strong team. Yeah, I think it's,

listen, I think it's great news for the Vuelta. You know, it's the Vuelta, you know, typically is the Vuelta. the third grand tour it's kind of the tour where you know riders scatter who have not been great in other races and have to kind of do their exams again right uh it's a retry uh

i mean it's a funny for for the race but that it is what it is the gero is the first the first grand tour of the season uh the tour is the tour of france and then you know whoever has whatever has somebody left is going to the Vuelta. So yeah, Bogacha is winning. I think second is going to be Felix Gall, in my opinion. I don't know about that. Yeah, you'll see. But I don't know if we should.

I have another pick for a second, but we'll talk about that. Who do you have Oscar Only? I think Onley. I think Gall, I mean, I haven't looked at the route close enough. I should probably study the route closer. but I liked to see how Onli came out. That's a tough injury he had. Only makes sense because he's fresh, right?

And he's promoted. And it's like this is his big goal of the year, you know? But his goal has already, you know, he was second in the Gero, highlight of his career. It's still in good shape. But, you know, he doesn't have to save his season. Only needs to save his season. So that might be, yeah, that might be,

make sense to put only up there. Yeah. Plus. Felix Gall is surprisingly consistent though. You wouldn't really think about him like that, but I think mentally it's going to be tough. Yeah. That was such a high at the zero.

What can come into play also is that Felix Gall has already signed a very lucrative deal with Little Trek for the next three years. So, you know, when it comes to motivation, it doesn't really need to unless he has a smart agent, which I think he has, who has calculated bonuses in his new contract based on the results of the next World Paspaena. That could be a great motivation. Interesting.

Yeah, instead of... The downside is he could be up late at night on, like, Zillow, looking at his new house and, you know, my irka, he's going to buy with this new contract. I don't think Felix Gall is that kind of guy, Spencer. I don't think Felix got... I mean, he might. not I, again, we should probably study the route a little closer because he's a very, the

Giro route was great for him. I don't know if the, I feel like the Velt is better for a guy like Onli. But again, Johan, we are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Like, these guys are going to be fighting it out for a second. Yes. I think you're right, the Pagachar. I think they're going to do the Vizma strategy for the Giro where they just circled four days where they ride hard on those four days and win the race basically and just plan Pagotcha's training for the, for the worlds around the Vuelta and I if he doesn't crash it's hard to imagine yeah winning right yeah I think so and it's crazy that so he there's eight riders to win all three grand tours in their career uh Jacques Ancateel Felice Folli Follice Jammandei Eddie Merckes Bernardino Alberto Controur

Vincenzo Nibaly Chris Frum Jonas Findergarde he would be the second writer this year to do it yeah that I don't believe has ever happened that's pretty crazy never happens has never happened And then even if you think when you became a professional, four riders had done this. When you retired from being a professional, four riders had done it. And then since then, we could have five riders to it. Pretty crazy how often it's happened actually in the last few years. Well, I also tell you how old I'm getting. Well, I think was Contador on you, were you managing him when he did that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He won his first three ground tours with me. He won the Tour de France in 2007. He won the Chiro and the Vuelta in 2008. And then he was, so you started this. Then he won the tour again in 2009. Yeah. And then 2000, we don't need.

Caledador's career is, you start to lose your mind because there's a difference between what you watched and then what is technically tallied up. Yeah. But I think he's got it. I think he, are we in agreement that he kind of has to do this? like he has to win all three and there's no time like the present might as well do it right owes it to himself I think and I think I said already before

you know I think that this year it's probably the best year for him to do it because the world needs less specific preparation than the next few world championships you know I think you know obviously he's the strongest rider in the world he can win on any course.

But if there's a course of the last three, four years, well, actually no, because Glasgow was Vanderpul who won, right? And then, yeah, Van der Poehle won. But anyways, Kigali and Zurich were kind of very hard. Montreal, I think the world's, of course, Pogacch is going to be the favorite. And especially because the world championships are part of the course, you have the distance. right which makes it incredibly hard any world championship with some kind of elevation is incredibly hard because of the distance so uh but it's also accessible to other riders no vonderpool

walt van art uh other riders i mean there's not that many but they yeah there's like five riders probably can mention that's it ramco can be really good at the world's really good i mean it's Remko, Vanderpull, Wow, Pagachar. It's the same guys always. Maybe one other. It's basically the Tour of Flambers contenders. And most likely

he will win. But next year, World Championships is a world championship that Pogacar cannot lose. He will not lose that. It's so hard. But it needs specific preparation. So if he goes again for the tour,

which probably wants to go for the tour again, then I would say, It's probably better you don't do the Vuelta and you do specific training for the world championships because in Salaich, that course is just incredibly hard. Yes. Yeah, so that makes sense. And then 2008, we have the Olympic Games, which.

Olympic so he can't do the Valta. He wants to do the Olympic games. So yeah, I mean, it's still not clear what's going to happen with the dates there of the Tour de France, by the way, because I think there's some kind of disagreement on, because the tour may have to change their dates. Well, the tour just released their dates for this. Well, two weeks early.

We'll see. But the tour doesn't control the UCI schedule, right? Like, how does the Giro feel about that? Spencer, the tour doesn't control the IOC, which is what we have to have in mind for the, for the, 2028. True. No.

The cycling in the Olympic Games does not depend on the UCI. It depends on the IOC. And then every international federation comes in for their specific sport. But the overall organization is way above UCI and ASO. Why would this be different than a normal Olympic cycle, though? Is it just the distance? Because in what, 2024, it was Paris, so it was easy. It was just the week after?

Same thing with London? There was just one week in between. I don't know exactly what happened, but I don't have the details in front of me now, but I think there is some collusion in the dates with the Olympic Games and the Tour de France. Interesting. Yeah.

Interesting. Okay, all right. We'll put that on the doubt for the wintertime because we're going to need something to talk about. But let's take a quick break. And I think we both feel pretty confident, Ted Apogatra is going to be the favorite for this Welta. Is he getting paid to do this, Johan?

I don't think so. I don't think so either. No, I don't think. It's ASO. It's ASO. I mean, the GRO does pay riders. I'm pretty sure. Oh, there's Bobby.

Bobby just came back on the scene. Bobby wants a check from ASO and show up to the Volta. But yeah, so ASO typically doesn't pay any starting fees for riders. The GRO does. So I'm going to guess that he doesn't get paid for this. It is big for the Volta, though, to have the Gautra they're doing it. It's huge, huge. Can be a flat grand tour.

And I'd say the route design in the last few years has not been amazing, not been the most inventive. So this is huge for the race. Let's take a quick break. And we'll come back and talk about a bit of racing that we've missed and then some interesting transfer rumors like Primas Rodglich, potentially going to Intermarsha Lotto. What's going on with that? But we'll be right back. Okay, Johan, we are back on the racing we've missed why I've been away. It's actually been some of my favorite racing of the season.

The racing we've not been talking about, we had just a rundown what we missed. We had Vuelta Burgos, won by Felix Gall over Oscar Onley, super thrilling race, came down to seconds, came down the time bonuses on the final stage up a really tough climb, which Johan's son will be racing in a week or so. We also had the tour of Poland, a world tour race. Why is the Tour of Poland? Just kind of an odd race to me that it's a good race. It looks like a beautiful country. The fact that it is technically the biggest race of this block is always a little confounding to me. One by Marco Brenner, another pretty interesting race, actually.

Time trial on the last day. Brenner stayed close enough, brought it home, brought the overall win home on the final day. We had the tour of Denmark, my personal favorite here. Woutvanard wins the first three stages of the race and the overall. Looks incredible. Looks like he's going to do a lot. of damage at the Vuelta. If you remember the last time he was at the Vuelta, he was in the green jersey on pace

to win the KOM jersey and then crashed out when he went down on that rainy day and slashed his knee open. I think we could be looking at him basically getting revenge and finishing off what he didn't finish off at that Vuelta based on the form we saw. We saw, I just want to call out quickly on the tour of Denmark, Storm Inger Britson from UNOX mobility, not related to the runner. he wins stage four in an unbelievably impressive solo breakaway. You could tell Vizma didn't want to catch them because they didn't want the time bonuses up for grab.

So the Bisma was not chasing, but the Peloton was right there. He just went solo from the break and won. And I believe it reminded me of a tour of Norway stage in 2025 when essentially he did the same thing and held off Matthew Brennan to win. He is only 21 years old. huge engine. Keep an eye on that guy. That was a really impressive win. And then the Czech tour is happening right now. We've had two stages. One and two, both won by Americans. We had Riley Sheehan win stage one with an impressive sprint over Ben Turner of NetCompanyi Enos. And then today Net Company Enos gets revenge with AJ August, getting his third win of

the season, I believe, and winning stage two on the uphill finish going into the overall lead. Arctic 2 of Norway, we are two-stage. is in. Unilex mobility wins their home. They have to win at least a stage, probably the overall at this race. They won today on stage two, but they lost stage one to Giovanni Lanardi from Pulte visit Malta. Big win for that team. And if Lenardi sounds familiar, it's because he was second on stage 21 at the Giuritaea, a pretty good little sprinter that you wouldn't always think of. But I love the Arctic Tour of Norway. It's got to be the only race. We see a above the Arctic Circle, Johan.

But what of your big takeaways from this block of racing been? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I love to see Walt Von Art back in action after his, you know, having to pull out of the Tour of France during the Dauphiné. First three wins, first three stages, he wins them and then takes the overall. It's nice to see. It's great for his confidence. And so I think we're going to see a great Walt Von Art at the Vuelta. Good to see him back winning. Burgos, Felix Gall, proves that he's in good shape again, beats only Chicone and Pelizari on a hard course.

So Burgos is typically a race where the non-tour de France riders prepare for the Vuelta. So I think he's on point with his form. Tour of Poland, as you said, you know, strange to have it in the world tour, but it's been there for a long time now. And it's purely thanks to the power and influence of an ex-cyclist. A really good cyclist, by the way, from the past called Cheslav Lang, who was a great cyclist. He won several stages in the Giro, was a great time trialist, and is a super influential figure in Poland.

Interesting. Yeah. So he has a great organization there. And I think, you know, although we have seen some accidents in the past in Poland, unfortunately, but it's normally very well organized. Yeah, and then Czech and Arctic Tour. I've seen the two stages. I think it's very interesting racing.

You know, not the usual big names, but sometimes you see really, really good racing then. I never know who's going to win until the finish line. So interesting races going on right now. Stage six of Poland, we saw Louis Barre, finally get his first win of his career. I was like extremely high on that transfer. It's paid off.

They made the right move at Visma. Yeah, as you do see like... He's a strong rider. He's a strong rider. He was very strong. I mean, very hard stage. Like held off Christian Scroni, Marco Brenner, Axel Laurence, Paul La Pera. These are all Max Schackman.

These are good riders. I do find that racing in these, especially in Poland and Czech tour, so good. It's just a very good racing, exciting stuff. Loving it. I do think the big takeaway is Wout Van Art looks amazing and we should be expecting a great Welta from him and to have Woutvinart

and Taday Pagachar at the Valta at the same time am I dreaming? What's going on here? This is not And Matt Spederson by the way would also be at the Welta. I can't believe he's doing that why he just talking about the guy that loves to race right like what is he's trying to avoid an altitude camp or something She's like, I got it.

I can see Mads Peders and wanting the free food. I understand he completely went away from altitude camps, if I'm not mistaken. He had never done them, and then he tried one and didn't like it, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What a rider. Yeah. What the writer. He is a warrior.

He made him in Carapaz made the last week. Oh, by the way, Cada Paz is doing the VELTA too. Oh, my God. What a great welta we have shown up here. And, and I'm going to say it here first. maybe Carapas, maybe very, very likely, will not be riding for EF next year. Interesting.

Interesting. Yeah. Can you say where he would be going? I can't say anything else, but the little bird told me that he's going somewhere else. Although he still has a contract. He still has a contract for 2007. I don't know anything. And you've not mentioned anything to me.

We should say that. I don't know anything about this. I will just say there are multiple Swiss teams out there with more money than there are quality riders. It's not for sale. But if I was one of those teams, man, Carapas, he would be a treat to have on your team, right? Because he gets paid. I know they complain about what he makes. He doesn't get paid that much, at least compared to a lot of modern salaries.

And what he is delivering for EF, it's. Compared to what he has given back to them, you know, take away Carapas in this Tour de France. Yeah, what do you have for that team? Yeah, I mean, you know, he's a guy, man. You're, if you're, even if you're a fan or not, man, the guy is just a racer. You know, he's a warrior. He's, and he's spectacular writer, you know, like he does not leave anybody indifferent. He's super spectacular in his attacking style.

keeps going. I think a great writer to have on a team. If you're a brand and want your brand to be advertised properly, man, carapasses. And although he's what, he's 33 now. So, you know, it's kind of a trade. Oh my God. Is he 33? I think he's 33.

I didn't know. Yeah, I think he's. Oh my God, Richard. What's happening? I remember when he was just coming in. And the tradeoff is, of course. He is 33. If now, I think in.

situation they have him on a contract for 2007 they're probably not in a situation where they can offer him a multi-year contract which will probably be his last contract so yeah i could perfectly envision him to have an offer from a team that has the funds and offers him a three-year deal which would probably be his last deal so you know if you're in carapass's situation and his agent has good negotiation skills you can probably find a way out and signed that last big contract, which, you know, he fully deserves. Yeah, I mean, and he delivers. Also, the amazing thing about Carapaz is he needs no system.

He's just plug and play. Yeah. Like, you could be the worst team in the Peloton. You hire him, boom. Like, he's going to perform. He does not need a complex system around him. I think he's been great for EF. He's probably worth more than what they're paying him, which is why he might leave.

Another, that's a good little bit of transfer news, Johan. Thank you. But another one. I'm going to classify it as. That's more than a rumor. It's more than a rumor. It kind of makes sense now that you mention it, that he would want to extend beyond his,

the next year. And EF couldn't pay him enough. Because it doesn't take a genius to watch that last week of the tour and think, I'd like to have him on my team. Yeah. And yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of teams willing to do that. bit of this is kind of the anti-carapaz

Primus Roglich leaving Red Bull at the end of the year going to in this is the rumor that he's going to Intermarschaid Lotto not at all what I would have expected I don't even really see how he fits in on that team

it's I just read it I have no information you know then I heard that both parties have kind of said that they have been talking you know I don't know I can see it I can't see it it's not a team that fits Primos at all unless there's some kind of sponsor behind

that really wants to put down the money. It's a team that's already struggling financially. They can't keep the league. They can't keep Van Atheft because last year they had to let Van Gilles go. Is it last year or two years? Yeah, last year, I think.

That was like last, Oh man, I'm losing our minds. I think he's been there for two years, actually. I don't remember. Maybe already two years. I don't remember. But, you know, their star riders are leaving, and it's because they don't have the budget. So I think freeing up the budget of the Lee and Von Aitveldt will not be enough to sign Primo Zroglich. I agree.

I mean, a team in trouble, dare I say, a writer, a writer in trouble as well. I mean, you sign Prima's Raghagos right now. What exactly are we getting? Yeah, plus, I mean, first of all, we haven't talked about Primal Ruggish for the Vuelta, by the way. He's won it four times. I know, I know. But rumors are that he's not sure to participate because he was hit by a car on training. And so I'm kind of confident he will be at the start unless, you know, he's not motivated anymore.

now that Pogaccia has announced that he's racing. That could also make sense. But you know, he's, in theory, if he would start the Vuelta and Pogacar is not at the start, he would be going for his fifth Vuelta victory, which would be an all-time record. Nobody has done it before. But, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if Plymouth's will be at the start of the Vuelta. But to come back to the Lotto Intermaché news, I can't see it happening. It's not a properly, I mean, it's not a well enough organized team for a rider like Primos, unless he brings some people with him, but that's also a budget issue then.

So I don't know. Or there must be one of the sponsors who all of a sudden comes up with extra budget. And Primo said, okay, I'll just do one more year and cash my check and go home. You know, that's the only way I could see it happening. But sporting wise, in my opinion, it makes no sense for him. And I love the guy. One of my favorite writers, I think he's incredibly underrated. You look at just the raw stage race victories and he's one of the best ever.

Yeah. Like rarely has anyone won stage races at the level he has. My concern is, A, his behavior, kind of odd. If you think about the last tour he did, just, I think he would. that got in the breakaway on one of the final days when that didn't make sense. He's wearing the short socks. Doesn't seem pumped, did not seem pumped earlier this year to be working for a teammate. Yeah.

That's not great. But you look at his win numbers. So this is a guy that just does nothing but win, basically, has not won a professional race this year if we take out national championships for Slovenia. In 2025, three race wins. You know, for a normal rider, that's a lot. For Primos, that's really concerned. Good enough.

Yeah. Because this is a guy. that wins between like 10 and 20 races a year. He has almost 100 pro victories in his career. So if I'm going to be honest, it looks like he's kind of plummeting off a cliff in terms of his stage racing performance. I don't know. It is kind of an interesting riddle of what team would take a chance, like what team does

he fit with? Like if you were going to draft a team for him right now, what's the best team for him to go to next year? It's difficult. It's difficult. You know, one thing, if he goes to Lotto Intermachian, at the end. One thing he doesn't have to worry about is his behavior because he will be able to do whatever he wants. True. True. So on other teams, it might be an issue. I mean, as you said,

Spencer, it's a great rider, a great champion. He's won incredible races, but doesn't seem to be, have the mentality to ride for somebody else, although he has done it in the past, but, you know, let's not forget. Which is normal for big champions, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Definitely. Definitely. But let's not forget, you know, like I seem to remember that all the, you know, speculation and controversy and uneasiness during the Vuelta of Seppkuz was kind of caused by Primus Roglisch, I think. If I can believe what has been said. Yes. You know, so that's some, that was a bit of disappointment for me, but you can't look next to way from what he's just done. And, you know, he's been an incredible cyclist. And I think we have to accept and Primos in the first place that he has passed his prime. And if he wants to do one more year, then if the number is right, I mean, he's made a lot of money.

So he doesn't have to go to Lotto Intermarchet for a under his value contract. It's not going to change his life. But if he really wants to and the money is right, then maybe. But again, it would make, I mean, listen, it would be a huge land. for landing for Motto Intermarche to strike such a rider. But, yeah, for Primus, I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it. It's not, it makes no sense.

Plus, I can tell me, Spencer, that team is not ready for a rider like Primal's Roglidge. I agree. Yeah. I just don't think that. Yeah. That this is the opposite. That's why I said he's the opposite of a Carapaz. You can't just row them in.

Yeah. It's like, all right, now you're going to win. He's like, he needs a system around him. And he did have a great. one, right? Yeah, Vizma for years. Yeah, I would love to see him. I'm just just off the top of my head.

Go to UAE. Just to like see him and Pagachar riding together. Kind of interesting. Yeah. And you want any, I mean, if he doesn't want to work for somebody, though, maybe UAE is not the best team for him. Listen, if he goes to UAE, it's probably for sure to ride for today or to perform in non-today races.

It's also another, I mean, like UAE can do that. You can sign Ebroklitz and have him in races where today is not, and he still will be a really good performing rider. But, you know, it starts to be a lot of names. They have to manage the Toro. They have to manage other, you know, Jan Christen, other ambitious riders. So I don't know if he would really fit in there. But that I can actually see more logical than him going to Lotto Intermarche.

The thing that the team that just pops off the page to me, it's like someone like two to me. You're taking the words out of my mouth. Like, yeah. You know, they have, and I'm not trying to denigrate anyone in this sentence, but you have these teams. They have the money. They're ready, but they're not ready. And they need an almost an interregnum rider.

Like you have to have the Primos and you go through these steps with him. And then you're ready for the next step. Yeah. I think he would be great for that team. They would learn a lot. Exactly. He could teach them a lot about. He would also make the team better with his experience.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be a great fit. I mean, maybe he will go there. I don't know. I've not heard anything about it. Like you just look, even when you're in the paddock and you look at that team,

you're like, this looks like a top, top team. They look incredible. Sure. And my wife was like, who are their good riders? I mean, don't worry about that. They'll figure that out at some point. Well, the star writer of Tudor is Fabium Cancelada. He's the star writer.

the team. Well, yeah, there's also a question about it. Julian Al-Falip as well. Yeah, but Fabian Cantilada is the star rider of Duba. They get him on the bike. Get them, have them race to Valta. Come on, Fabian. Come back. And

then another bit of interesting transfer news that's not transfer news at all and pours water on a lot of transfer news and rumors. Isaac Deltoro renews at UAE through 2030. It looks like the Pagotcha riding for him almost the entire tutor friends, giving him a stage win, doing everything he could to get him on the podium, convinced him that, hey, this is a pretty good place to be. And he's going to be there. I'd assume he re-upped for a lot of money. And it almost certainly means Paul Success is not going to that team, correct? Yeah, I think that puts the bet the rumors of Success. I cannot imagine for a second that Deltoro and his agent would have agreed to any terms that include.

for success. I mean, let's be, let's be clear. So, 2007 to the France goes to Pugacar again. 2008 again. Then we'll see what happens. 2009, Bogacar also has a contract till 2030, by the way. But he may want to explore other things, other races. Although I think he will have won most of them. My then, you know, There's not many left. That's a good point.

I could see him getting like Giro Curious again and his later career. There's Rubea left and what else is left? There's not much others. I mean, the Basque Country, the boss country is one of the seven, one week races he hasn't won. That's shocking, actually. Yeah. I think he only did it once. And he got ambushed.

Twice, twice, I think he got twice. I remember he did tour of the Basque Country in his first year because I remember an interview of this young kid I said, hmm, this guy knows what he wants. He did it in 2019? In his first year pro, he did the tour of the Basque country. What the heck? Yeah, yeah.

And he finished top six, top seven. Oh, my God. He finished six. Yeah. Wow. I do remember, I do remember from that tour of the Basque country, you know, I had seen him win in Algarve and he won. one two stages.

You know, new professional, no, 20 years old. Then he was in the Basque Country. If I remember correctly, he was riding for his team leader, which was, if I'm not mistaken, Rui Costa. I'm not sure about Rue Costa, if there was not any other UAE rider in front of him. Oh, man. This was a weird team at the time, by the way. Was it Rikosta or was it someone else?

Not Rui Costa. I don't think you would guess this, Johan. No, no, no. Was it Fabio Arou? No, no, that's a good, that's a good one, though. It was a weird team. It's like we all have annesia about this team. Dan Martin.

Dan Martin, exactly. Got second. I forgot he was on that team. Yeah, yeah. So, but anyways, I saw him do an interview there at the Basque Country. We're getting off track here. But this young kid. This young kid did an interview and I will always remember.

He said, you know, yeah. It's really baby face. He said, my next goal is, I want to win the Tour of California, which was a big race back then. Yeah. And guess what? He went to the Tour of California. I think it was in May.

And he won it. We won it. I think he won on Mount Baldy. I think he beat Sergio Igita. Yeah. Yeah. My memory, my memory is still working. That's a crazy retelling of the 2019 season.

I don't know how you remember that. He did the Basque Country and he did it one more time, I think, where if I'm not mistaken, he was working for Brandon McNulty who was in the leader's jersey at some point. And then he lost it. And I think, was it Roglitch who won it finally? The tour of the Basque country. Yeah. Yeah, I think Visma worked him over and they got away.

Yeah. Yep. And then Roglitch won it. Robich is a great bass country. win bas country um so he already won tirono he won parinis you want catalun you what about tour tour down under he's got to win that no and i'm saying the seven prestigious prestigious basis so he won tireno he won parinis he won

uh catlunia he won switzerland and romandie he won dauphinet so it's only it's only it's only bas country yeah we'll see we'll see what else I mean, it's Olympics, Rubé, and Bass Country. Yeah. Exactly. Essentially is what it's not won. Yeah. Yeah.

So at 27, man, that's pretty impressive. It's pretty impressive, he would say. It would say not bad, not a bad haul. And then, I mean, so Lance had some thoughts about this, that he couldn't believe that Del Toro would want to stay because he wants to win the tour, right? He's wasting years at UAE under the toolage of Pagachar. My argument would be Pagotcha is not going anywhere. Del Toro going to Little Trek does not solve the Pagachar problem.

No. You're going to just lose to Pagachar. Yeah. And not be on his team. He's not going to be helping you. He's going to be racing against you. Yeah. So, yeah, do you want that guy helping you or racing against you knocking you off the podium?

Probably you'd want him helping you. I think he's doing the right thing. Because Pagachar is going to win or he's not going to win. And it's not going to depend on you probably for at least the next few years. Might as well be on his team. Same with Jonathan Narvaeus. You know, he's had some good results being on the same team as Bagachar when everyone thought he was crazy for going there.

But the closer you get to the eye of the hurricane, often the better off you do. Plus, you know, I mean, sometimes, you know, I mean, obviously not in the Tour de France, but sometimes in stage races, especially in stage races, or even one day races, if you are on the team of the big favorite, it creates opportunities when everybody. is deciding their strategies on Pogacar. Also, I think a few other things to take in mind when we talk about Deltoro renewing. Number one, the value of the contract. I think UAE, there's no question that they have the biggest resources.

And they see Deltoro as the next project when Pogacar is deciding to not go for it anymore. Secondly, they're amazing friends. They get along really, really well, Bogacha in De Toro. And thirdly, not in that order. They also have the same agent. So, you know, the career brothers, is that right? Alex Carrera, yeah.

So, no, I mean, I'm going to assume that the contract is really good because Alex Carrera is a great negotiator. and if it would be too much of a difference, you know, he would consider leaving. But then another thing, Spencer, what we have to have in mind is you can have an agent who negotiates a huge contract for you somewhere else. But if the writer doesn't want to go, it's still the writer who's going to decide, you know, unless it's a huge contract and another team doubles it.

Right? But if you say, for example, it's X amount of millions. and another team offers 30% more, it depends. It's already a lot of money for these guys, right? So I think Del Toro chooses for the atmosphere, the group, and the environment where he feels great. And I think it's a good decision for him to stay at the UAE.

I agree. Why mess with this? I mean, they clearly have the best back-end system, you know, with their trainers and everything they have going on, I would not leave that team. We should, I looked it up. He extended through 2031, so not 2030. And great age spread between Pagacchar and Del Toro. So Del Toro is five years younger.

What do they say when we start looking for your new job? You start looking for a job the day you get your new job. It's like the same thing with UAE. They already now have a plan for when Pagachar is not winning grand tours. They have Del Toro. teams can get into a lot of trouble when you rely on this great rider they step away you don't have anyone to fill that void i think it's it's super smart for both of them i also think it's great for paucas not to go to that team that never made a lot of sense to me so it looks like that's not

going to happen i think i think you know we've talked about it i think say sas first of all spencer he's not on the market he's not he's not a free rider he has a contract with decathlon through 2007. Let's not forget that. So, you know, we all know, okay, contracts can be renegotiated, but for the moment, DeKathlon is in the driving seat. They have him under contract. They would need to agree to let him go. He's already probably a big, a big contract, which has already been, you know, renegotiated, I think. And I personally, I think these rumors of, you know, him going to other teams or consider other teams, it's, we, We have to consider also that this could be a tactic of the agent to just up the price, right?

Which, you know, it's his right, but, you know, we've seen there this, you know, figure of 13 million, 13 million offered by Pinerillo Q306.5. I personally, I don't believe that's true. I don't believe it for a second. I'm calling it. You should not believe. I'm calling bullshit on it. I've gotten pretty deep into this. last few months, and it's shocking, actually, how big a difference there is between the truth

and these numbers and things you hear, these agents are running circles around cycling media. And like Oscar Onley, for example, he did not go to Nios for the number that was reported. Didn't they say initially six million? Six million and it was not six, you know, it's like a fraction of that. But the agents, it's like one and a half million. It gets close to that, yeah. And I mean, which is a good, that's a good little, that's a good chunk of money for the team. And that's-

Make more sense. Yeah, that's a good price. The agents are just, they're running a muck out here with these numbers. But I also, I had someone tell me who trades in information for their job, cycling information.

They're like, oh, yeah, success, he's signed at UAE. It's a done deal. But clearly, you would imagine that can't be true if Del Toro just renewed to 2031.

I mean, I mean, listen, we can be wrong, but there, it makes no sense, man. I mean, listen, Sextas and Del Toro have been fighting for the podium. These are the next grand tour contenders.

They cannot be on the same team. It's, you know, it does just, especially given their age, you know, if it would be one who's super young and the other one is a lot of younger, then maybe. But they're both so young still. I mean, let's not forget Del Toro, what is Del Toro? What is El Toro? 22. 22. He's super young, you know, so he has, uh,

the best part of his career in front of him, and success even more so. So, no, I can't see them racing in the same team. Makes no sense. Makes no sense. You're right. Something crazy about Deltore, I was just thinking about on vacation. So 22 years old, finished his third of the tour. And then it's like a trick question.

How many riders on the tour podium? How many had not finished on a grand tour podium before? Zero. Because Deltoro, like, of the rider, like all the riders that finish on the, tour podium this year. So Pagachar, Remko, Del Toro. You know, if you ask someone the question, like, how many are Grand Tour podium debutants? You would think Del Toro is, right? Yeah, but he was second and is not. He's already finished on the podium of a grand tour. And he should have won that zero, by the way. Oh, yeah. He just took that thing and punted it right

in the left field. I still can't believe that. It made him, I think it made him a better rider, though. He's come out of that. Oh, listen to me. Different. The way he's, bounce back. He won 10 races this year, I think. And yeah, I mean, basically after he lost that Giro, he essentially didn't lose another race. He just keeps winning until he got to the tour this year. Yeah.

But didn't win for good reason because it wasn't his job too. Plus, another thing. He was sick. Yes. Yeah, we haven't talked about that. You know, they've never confirmed it. You know, we have. we have talked about it during the Tour de France.

We knew that Adam Yates was sick. Who else was sick? Floyd Mermere's was sick. Dranda McHulty was sick and abandoned. Tim Welland. And I think Spencer, okay, here's Bobby again. Sorry.

Bobby, come here. Come here, Bobby. Come here. Bobby wants to be on the show. Come here. Come. Hang on one second. I know our listeners like to see Bobby.

Get Bobby up there. Bobby. There he is. Hey, Bobby. Are you not happy? Are you not happy? Did Bobby go to Majorca with you? Bobby did not come to Mallorca with me.

Oh, my God. That's why he's all upset about that. Next week I'm traveling to the north of Spain and he's coming with me. And then in September, we go two weeks to Belgium. And that's going to be his first international trip on a plane. Wow. Hey, Bobby. Wow.

Yeah, he's going to fly for the first time in his life. Wow. It's not a crazy long flight. No, it's two hours. And, you know, like a little dog like this can be with me on the plane. Like, you know, they don't need to check it in like they do with big dogs, you know. So yeah. Yeah.

He's going to be fine. He's looking forward to it. Okay. Now that he's here, I can keep. Okay. Yeah. Well. Oh, yeah.

Sick. Del Toro. Something. I don't remember now. What is what I was saying. you were saying Tim Wellens was sick Yes

Toro was sick Yes so Spencer If you remember correctly And you I don't think so But two or three of the other guys On the move Were kind of laughing with me

I was saying yeah I saw this interview of Tim Wellens And you know I have doubts With this cold water And the ice And this and that You know They don't

They all did get sick You don't get sick from that Listen, guess what? Guess what? I spoke to someone from within UAE. And that person confirmed that they were 100% sure that the cold water and the cold water and the cold and the ice and over cooling has an influence, the change of temperature and produces sore throats. And they were not the only ones. So I was right.

we're going to de-platformed again you know i i also want my personal theory on ice speaking of being off topic it gets you sick because you're putting like when you consume it because you're putting a liquid into a solid form that then can be touched and it touches a lot of stuff and gets a lot of germs and then you put it in your drink and then you drink it that's why that's why i think i'm i think i still think that you know the temperature changes i mean i i get you know i get okay it's all about cooling down the body and it makes sense and you know it improves your recovery and your performance and uh but let's not forget that you're doing these things with bodies that are already extremely depleted you know you're super fragile even if you're in top shape you know

they're all super super fragile the the the difference between being in top shape and falling sick is that line is very thin. And, okay, you know, you can say, you know, you only get sick because of a virus or bacteria or whatever. That's not true. I am still convinced that if you are putting your body under a lot of strain and you have to perform an extreme heat

and you have these sudden changes in temperature, whether it's with ice or, and the Americans are going to laugh with me, AC It can make you sick and nobody can be the opposite it can make you sick

I did have I think I told this on the show already no AC obviously like in the UK and then I stayed in a hotel with AC and I was like I think I'm getting sick I could feel it right away I was like oh man maybe there's something to do that it's virus it's bacteria

well okay they got sick also say, a lot of people who are sick, actually, I think, I mean, Tim Wallens was sleeping,

you see his eight sleep numbers? He's sleeping on like a 50 degree bed. Yeah. No wonder he got sick. We have another ad break. We still have more show. So let's do another ad break. We've got to get through the rest of the show because we have to talk about what's

going on at Picnic Post-N-L-Johan. It is, it needs discussion. Okay. So we'll be right back after this. Everybody, this episode is brought to you by Square. The system powering like. half the places you go to.

If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, whoa, that was fast, it was probably Square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, or running a packed game day spot, or managing a design studio, Square can help you run your business without running yourself from the ground. And right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware

when you sign up at square.com slash go slash the move. That's SQUA-R-E.com slash the move. And Square is key, because when you're in the UK, I was in the UK all summer. I'm tapping. Boom, I'm running around. You get back to the U.S.

and you go to a place that doesn't have square. Oh, my Lord, what are we doing? Why am I getting five pages of receipts? Why am I doing math? Why am I doing long division to leave a tip? With square, it's easy. I just tap and I go.

I will go to places because they have square. That's why you want to get square at your business. And right now, make sure you take advantage of that. $200 off square hardware. That's SQU-A-R-E.com slash go-the-move. Okay, Johan, just to continue our transfer news, you know, we talked about that, the big headline stuff. Prima's Roglich going somewhere. Inter-Marshey, maybe, maybe not.

Isick-Daltaro, not going anywhere. Paul Success, probably not going anywhere if he's not going to UA and he's on a great team already. The other transfers, just let me read these out really quick. Pavel Bittner to Q36.5 from Picnic Post-in. I think that's a big loss. Good transfer. That's a great transfer. Fabio Jacobson to Vismo from Picnic Post.

We will talk more about that. I don't really understand. Maro Schmidt, J-Code at Q36.5. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, he's a good writer. He's probably going to get paid a lot of money. It's going to be great for that team. Some sneaky good ones here from your friends over at Alpison.

Mattis Michaels from EF to Alpison. I love that transfer. Another one. Even Ivan Garcia-Cortina, amazing rider, going to Alpison from Modestown. For the classics to be with Van Rupin, Really good. That is a great pickup.

And then another one, Casper Van Uden from Picnic Post-Sanel to Alpison. It's a great pickup for Alpison, but what are we doing here, picnic? We're losing everybody. Yeah. And then this one's kind of crazy. This one makes sense, but I had kind of forgotten he was a professional. Miko Lando, Miko Landa sued all quick stuff to Ouskidel, Uskiddy. I assume just like a homecoming.

That's also good for the team. Not a lot of people know this, but, you know, it's obviously his last year. this is going to be his last transfer and Michel Landa is actually a co-owner of the team. Oh, I didn't know that. That would make sense. Yes.

So I think, you know, he goes back home. That's where he started. So it closes the circle. Spencer, the one that really sticks out to me is Fabio Jacobson. I mean, it's effective immediately.

I don't know if he said that. That's another thing. So, but anyways, picnic, what is it, picnic? They've changed so many times. Picnic Post-N-L is it right now, right? So, first of all, we don't know.

First of all, we don't know if they're going to be in the world tour next year. It kind of looks like maybe not based on just these transfers. Yeah, based on the transfers. And then let's not forget also that they got their license only for one year due to the financial situation of the team. So based on their points right now, they're not in the world tour. That's the first thing. But then, you know, to see once again Fabio Jacobson, who, you know, I think it's fair to say, has been nowhere, no results, changes themes in the middle of, like changing now to Visma.

So I don't know what Visma needs or what they know or what they are thinking. Jacobson has obviously been one of the best sprinters of his generation in his prime. but you know the fact that he leaves directly it's once again once again this guy I don't know if it's genius or if it's sad or if it's just whatever but you know the team owner Ivan Spakenbrink to me I mean he keeps excelling at trading in cyclists

before the expiration of their contracts it's it's crazy it's like this is his specialty he sells riders that are under contract. And I've made a list here, Spencer. It's astonishing to see which big names have left that team, whatever their name was. If it's not Picnic Post-An-L before it was DSM,

then it was Sunweb, whatever it was, then before it was Giant or Sun-Wab Giant or whatever it was. At some point, it was even Alpacin, if you'd remember correctly. Team Giant Alpison, yes. So I've basically, the list here of the biggest names, but there's many more. There's many more. But this is not a coincidence anymore. And this has become this guy's business. This guy made more money in selling riders than with running the team. I'm going to name them. These are all riders who left that

team before the end of their contract, which implies, which, you know, that speaking bring got paid to let them leave. Marcel Kito. Mark Hirschie, Michael Matthews, Warren Bargill, although he's back now, Warren Bargill. Yeah. Tom Dumoulin. That's that one's crazy. After winning the Giro.

He won a grand tour at that team. Yeah, he won a grand tour and it was second in the Tour de France. Oscar only, obviously, the last one we heard of. Tis Benot, forgotten, but he was, nobody remembers, but Ilan Van Wilder, Edward Tunes, Felix Gaul,

2012, Felix Gaul had a contract with the council and they let him go. And this is just, you know, I mean, but anyways,

Kittl, Hirschi, Michael Matthews, Dumoulin, only, Bargill, Felix, Gaul, Van Wilder, Tish Benot, Edward Tunnes.

This is crazy. This is a guy who trades in professional cyclists. That's his, job. He's not a team manager. He's a traitor. Well, he's a, he's a trade. He's a, he's a very good trader. I don't hate the business idea. We should say he used to sell riders before the contract came up, probably riders he knew would leave. Yeah. So he's getting paid. That's great. He's funding the

team with it. He's then developing new riders than he sells. This is a great little business model. Where it started to fall apart is now he's selling riders and then no new riders are coming in. That's kind of a problem. I think that's, it's clear that this team is budget-wise struggling. We've known, I mean, the proof, they got their license approved only for one year, and it's not getting better. They're losing now riders that are obviously not of the caliber of these names here that we've seen. And all they do is they sign riders from their development team to the professional team.

That's all that happened. No other considerable name has signed for Picnic Post-N-L for the most. moment and I don't think anybody will. First of all, because they don't have the budget. And secondly, it's become a not very attractive team. I mean, I think they're, what are they, 27, 28 in the ranking? They are. It's also concerning that they're 29th.

Yeah. And the last team, I mean, they made the least amount of money in the Tour de France. I mean, it's not always a reflection of, you know, the quality of the team. But in this case, I think it is. Yeah, in this case, it is. Johan, they're almost, I know, actually, I don't know what happens here. But so you have to be in the top 30 of the rankings to be invited to a grand tour. Yeah.

They potentially could break brains and the rules because they could technically be outside the 30 and a world tour team. Would they then be ineligible to go to a grant tour? I don't know what happens. I don't know if that's still valid, man, if they're outside of the top 30 and there still be a world tour team. I don't know because they, first of all, they don't have an automatic license. Well, then what happens to their license next year? But they don't have one.

Are they then, who does it go to? Well, I mean, it's going to be. Or is there just one less team? No, no, no. It's going to be Tudor or Pinerrello. Would get promoted to the world tour? Yes. Yes.

Huh. Those guys are in a dog fight. Who's in first? Who's in first? Is it Tudor or Pinerrello? Penirello. by less than 200 points. Oh wow. That's going to be an interesting end of seed.

Yeah, that is super interesting. Super interesting. Wow. I mean, I don't know what to say here. This is like shocking. It's breaking my brain. For Tudor and Pinarello, in terms of participation, it doesn't really matter. Because next year, they can participate in all the world two races anyways.

And an advantage is if you are in that situation, if you're in the top three, I think, of the pro teams, you can also decide to not go to some of those races if you don't have the necessary riders, whereas a wheelchair team is obligated to go to all the races, even if they have seven or eight riders who are sick. Yes. Yeah. I mean, in some ways, it's a better situation. It is.

The only thing is that you have to perform every year. Every year you have to perform. But at this point, you know, there's no way. that Tudor and Pinarello with the budget and the riders they have, they're not going to be first or second. There's no way. No. The question for you on Fabio Jacobson.

Why is Vizma, what's going on with there? Why would Vizma do this? Well, I mean, I don't know, man. I honestly don't know. I mean, there must be something. Obviously, listen, there's something not right. There has been something not right with Fabio Jacobson. I know he had this, he had this surgery for his.

Ilyac artery, no, I think? Yeah. Which I don't think he ever recovered from, whether they know now if that's better or not. They must know something and they must have faith that he's going to perform again. If it's one of the trainers who's close to him, maybe. Who knows? I don't know. Apparently he's next door neighbors with their head of performance.

That's what I heard. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, they must know something that we don't know, Spencer. Otherwise, that makes no sense. And it's obviously not going to be a huge. a big contract either. That's true. That's true.

It's tiny, tiny contract. Let's say he wins two races. That's good. Paying for himself right there. Yeah. Here's just a vacation thought I had. Vizma.

Where do they go from here? So Jonas, is he come back with like the full vigor. I mean, obviously we have to take everything these guys say with the grain of salt. Like Bradley Wiggins, Lance Armstrong, to them,

anything not winning the tour, is like, what are you doing? What's the point? I still think, like, Yonis, if you can go to any grand tour you want, where Pagos is not there to win, and then you get podium at the tour, that's pretty good. It is. It is, although, but if you have won the tour twice, then, and you've won the zero and you won the Vuelta,

it's like, okay, the only thing you have to win the tour again. Now, something really that worries me and concerns me is one of the quotes that I've seen from, I don't know if it's a direct quote or if it's a comment from a colleague, But apparently, Jonas is struggling mentally a lot with the dominance of Tarepugachar and has kind of conceded that he's unbeatable, which is obviously a problem. Yeah, which is probably true. And you can understand being frustrated because he beat him twice. And then you show up to the tour, how many times can you finish second after winning it twice?

That has to be mentally crushing. and then you're going to go like the tour is one investment but think about all these training camps he has to go to be aware of my family like why am i doing this if we're listening to what's her name trina trina vingerard or hansen again she's again come out with comments saying that you know this burden is too hard on the on the professional cyclist that the training camp should be optional and not mandatory she said it again i don't agree with that i don't agree with that i don't agree with that i do agree for for yonis i i would bet he could train at home and it'd be fantastic yeah right that's not a normal person though yeah most guys you should not let yeah and also spencer you know and to come back on this okay pogachar's unbeatable yes but there's gonna come a time they're gonna

come one time where you know it's the race is to be in the best possible position in case something happens to pro that's true you know yeah so yeah if yon us this year you know if yon us this year we don't know if he was going to be in second. He most likely yes. And something happens to that day. Who knows? Maybe today has the same problem as Sepkus or crashes in the time trial like Lipowitz, whatever, you know?

Then it's Jonas who wins. So you have to have that encounter. Of course, that's not in the mind of a champion, you know. I can agree. I can understand that Pogaccio said, Yonah said, okay, I've now done everything I can. I'm in the best possible shape I can. There's nothing else I can do, and I'm still so far off.

Because until he crashed, he was already four minutes behind. And it was only going to get more. Right? So I can understand that way of feeling. It must not be easy. At the same time, Jonas, you're a damn good bike rider. You're an amazing champion. You've won everything you can win.

The three-ground tours, you know, all the other. other races. He hasn't won Switzerland, no? Because I don't think he has ever done it. I don't think he's ever raised it. But you know, he's close. He's also won the Basque Country. He's won Paris Nis.

He's won Tirino, I think. I believe he has. I think he's basically one of the, he might be, I mean, I would have to sit down. He's one Catalonia. Oh, he won the Basque Country. I don't know if he won Romani. I think the only two to win to know, win is Romandie. and Switzerland.

The two that today won this year. You know, so there's also... And he hasn't raised Romandy since 2019. Okay. So, you know, if he wins those two races, he's up there, you know. I mean, the only thing that he's worse at and he will never be as good is in the one-day races and the classics.

But that's easy to accept, you know, that he's not that type of rider. But if you win, if you win, spent all three grand tours, one of them, the Tour de France, two times, and then the seven prestigious one-week races, man, you can go home, you know? There's almost nobody who has done this.

I know the crazy thing about him. There's days that he's not able to match Bagachar, but he really is a bad day, like ever in his career. If you think about it, almost never. Let's say, Vizma should be planning, as we talked about the UAE, for the post-Yonis, post-Wout, future.

Should they have kept Oloff Koi? Would that not be a great writer to have for a moment like this? Oh, Jonas has crashed out. I know, but yes. They should have cried, but I don't think they could. It was a budget issue.

And so if you have Walthe and Jonas. And then you get OLAF Koi, who gets an offer of reportedly three million euros on Decathlon for three years. There's not much you can do. You know, as you have to choose. your bets and they are betting on, they have been betting on Walt and Jonas, and rightfully so, I think.

So they'll have to come up with new talent. You know, Vizma is still one of the themes that is a reference and young talents want to go to, although it may not be the first choice anymore, but still, I mean, I would, I mean, if a young talent has the chance to go to Visma, there's not many writers who are going to say, no, I don't want to go there. it's a great team true it's a great team true i mean they do have uh what's his name be gonzoli

david heganzoli they have i mean they have matthew brennan who's obviously a great great right yeah he's very good they have jrgen northagen who's a great talent also for the future um you know and and and probably others others that will come so um you know so i think never i think and And here's a question for you before we go. On the move, it was said, these guys, they're going to retire young. They're going to retire young. Pro cycling's too hard. Another vacation thought I had.

Is pro cycling easier? Because you guys were eating bread crust, just miserable. I mean, Wiggins was talking about he would do calorie deficit rides where he would circle Majorca. They would purposely underfeed him. And then he would have like sparkling water and go to sleep to lose, this is like to lose weight. first of all, and then it makes it harder to lose weight because you're not able to train at the level that you're burning a bunch of calories.

And then that's why personally I think, like, you look at some of these riders and they're training on like super fuel and they're going so hard in training that I don't think they have to watch their weight as much as riders in the past. I think actually could extend careers. But here's just a few names for you. Primas Rogwitch, Warren Bargiel, Mika Landa, Julian Alafilipe. these guys are all still racing. It actually doesn't seem like,

it seems like maybe you become uncompetitive in grand tours, but it doesn't seem like guys are walking away from the sport necessarily. I mean, do you think that's going to change? Well, obviously, you know, you named these four riders. I mean, Warren Margillah, I don't know, but the others, you know, they're racing because they still have incredibly good contracts. Let's not forget that, right?

Yeah. So it's difficult to say, okay, now I'm going to stop. and go into normal life. It's a big wake-up call, by the way, for everybody. And you're never, ever in your life even going to come close to make the same amount of money that you did as a professional cyclist. So that's a difficult one to say no to, right? We saw Giulia Ala-Philippe at the finish of Abdu-S saying that, you know,

I'm done, this is my last time. Let me tell you, this is not his last year. Well, yeah, yeah, maybe his last time of the tour, but it's not going from that contract. You know, if my information is correct, then I've heard the contract value of Fala-Philippe, he's not saying no to that. He's finishing his last year next year. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

I think he's going to be back. And that was my argument on the show. I was like, the money is so high. People are going to walk away. They might stop winning, but they're not going to walk away from this contract. Yeah. That's for sure. Yeah.

I mean, Warren Bargeal, what a genius thing from Picnic? Sell him, get cash for him, then hire him for free again, like on a free transfer. Yeah. Later on in his career, he's one of their best riders, by the way, which shows the type of position. It also says a lot about the level of Picnic, Post-N-L. I mean, Warren Bargill has been a great rider, but he's a shadow of what we have seen from him. You know, he can go on a break, but he can't stay in the break. He can never make it to the finish with the first riders of the breakaway.

So do you know how old he is? 36. This is only 34. 34. Okay. It feels like he's from a different era. Yeah. I mean, he is in some ways.

And then we should mention the closing. Oh, folding. I was shocked by this of the Flanders, Baloas. Ballois, yeah. I guess you would say, you wouldn't say Flanders. You would say Vlandren, Baluam. Yeah. Yeah, it's a team.

It's been around since I think. under the name Flanders since 2006, so 20 years. And it's been, you know, the team in Belgium that, you know, was catching. I mean, they were catching talent. Lots of good riders have come through that team. It's been the ideal team for young riders who were not ready to go straight away to the big teams. And a lot of really good riders come from there.

And now, unfortunately, I mean, everything comes to an end at some point. but I've heard that the government, because Flanders, top sport Flandering is the entity that sponsors sport for young people, but it's government-based that they have cut costs and that they're not willing anymore to, it's a political motivated decision also, depending on, you know, who has won the elections. But, yeah, unfortunately, that team disappears, run by the son of the president. My first coach, Patrick Serkou, was from my hometown, sadly passed away. His son, Christoph, has run this team now for the last 20 years or more. And unfortunately, now the team disappear.

So that's a bummer for Belgium cycling. And, yeah, I don't know how it can be replaced. It's been the learning school for a lot of really good professional riders. Yeah, I'm shocked. It's sad. It's sad for Flemish cycling. I'm suddenly concerned about it because, as you say, it's this type of rider who's not, it's not Palsic sauce. But not everyone can go from the juniors to the pros. Some people need a stepping stone. I mean, I'm just going to list some writers that we pulled out of it out of here that were that started on this team. Victor Campanarts, Thomas DeGent, Jan Backelons, Peter Seri, Sten de Volder, Tim DeClark, Eves Lampart, Oliver Nason, Yonis Ricard. I mean, these are, all very good riders who maybe don't make it to the world tour without that team. Edward Toons. Edward Toons. I mean, it's the meat.

You would describe these people like the meat of the sandwich in professional cycling. Like they're there. They're serving extremely important roles for teams like Alpsin Premier Tech, probably feast on these riders. Little concerned that this stepping stone is now being removed and it doesn't feel like there's more coming in. You know what? And sometimes. Now I'm thinking back. I'm thinking back now.

This team exists not 20, 30 years, 30. Because I remember. Yeah, I guess mid-90s is not 30 years ago. I remember when I, in the mid-90s, I remember going on a training ride. I don't remember now who it was. Two young riders, when I just moved to Spain, to Calpe, to, so in Costa Blanca, you've been there. And I moved from Onsit to Rabobank, and I trained with two young riders then. who were there on training camp and they were on Vlandren.

So it's more than 30 years. It's the mid-90s. So, yeah, so a very long time. And it's sad because take Victor Campanar, it's amazing writer, super important for Vizma. If he was on, let's say, the junior U-23 program of a team like UAE, I mean, maybe they don't keep him on the team. Yeah. You know, he took a long time to come into the form that he's in right now.

and I worry that you can't trust the big teams to develop all these riders in-house because they're just going to pick the shiniest gem and pay attention to that. And then these guys that take a little bit longer to develop aren't going to have as many places to go as they've had in the past. So it's really sad that the team's folding and it's not good for Belgian cycling and it's probably not good for professional cycling in general that this is happening. Yeah, I mean, last year, two years ago, I think we had kind of the same. set up in Wallonia, which was bingo back in the days of bingo Wallonia. Yeah. That team disappeared.

So now this team disappears and there's no new teams coming. Also we have to say, you know, one of the one of the reasons this also happens is that more and more world tour teams have their own development team, right? True. So that's where, you know, but these guys are obviously a lot younger, you know, in this in in London, Baluas, for example, they were really young riders, but you could also be 25, 26, 27, and still then make it to a bigger team, which if you're an development team, that's not the case. You either make the step before you're 23 or you're done. Yeah, essentially the unglamorous part of development was outsourced from the World Tour teams

to teams like this. Yes. Where it's like, well, we don't want to pay attention to this guy, but maybe he's going to be good. Well, he's going to go over here and maybe we'll come back later. But now that's gone. It's not good at all. Not good. No.

Anything else, Johan, before we take off? We went very long. I didn't check the clock. We went long, but we have been away for a long time. It's been a while. It's been a while, yeah. Yeah, we got to give the people an extra boost. And then we're going to lose a chance to talk about all of this because we got the

VALTA preview next week. Exactly. And we're straight to the WELTA. Yeah. Okay. So next, in a week, we're back. Next Friday, right? We're back. Vuelta preview coming out Friday and then daily shows during La Vuelta,

Hispanic. Looking forward to it. Me too. Great to talk to you and we will see each other next week. Okay, Spencer. Thanks. Okay.