THEMOVE - Giro d'Italia 2026 Review Live From the Wattage Festival w/Bradley Wiggins | THEMOVE

Episode Date: May 31, 2026

Live from the Wattage Festival in Oostende, Johan Bruyneel, Bradley Wiggins, and Spencer Martin break down Jonas Vingegaard's overall win at the Giro d'Italia to become only the eighth rider of all-time to win all three Grand Tours, what, if anything, his rivals could have done to stop him, and, of course, what this means for his looming battle with Tadej Pogačar at the Tour de France. They also briefly discuss Jonathan Milan's win in the Stage 21 sprint in Rome and what it means for him and his Lidl-Trek team. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team DripDrop: Right now, DripDrop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to https://dripdrop.com and use promo code themove. Even Realities: To learn more about Even G2, go to https://evenrealities.com and see how everyday smart glasses keep helpful information in sight, so you can stay productive and hands-free throughout the day. And for our listeners, use promo code themove at https://evenrealities.com to get 10% off Even Ring 1 and/or Even Clip when you add them to your Even G2 order MUDWTR: Ready to make the switch to cleaner energy? Head to https://mudwtr.com and grab your starter kit today! Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal—up to 43% off starter kits, plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code THEMOVE. After your purchase, they'll ask how you found them—please show your support and let them know we sent you!      

With Jonas, yeah, I mean, he's gone without any problems in this duo. And I think it's a bit like the Walter last year. You know, it's been effort. It looks like it's been effortless for him in many ways. And I was just saying before, I wonder how this is going to set him up for July. This is the best Jonas finger we've seen over the last few years since he won the tour, I would say. Everybody, welcome back to The Move. I'm Spencer Martin.

I'm here with Johann Bernille. we are breaking down stage 21 of the Giro d'Italia, which just wrapped up a little bit different episode today. We already recorded like a Gior de Talia big picture wrap up with Bradley Wiggins. We were live in Belgium in Ostenda on the coast, beautiful Belgian coast. Johann and I just caught the train back to Brussels before we fly home tomorrow, but we wanted to update everyone on the stage because we recorded that show before the stage occurred. It was won by Jonathan Milan with Giovanni Le Nelman.

Leonardo, Leonardo, in second. Who didn't see that coming? And then Paul Penho in third, Dylan Groove, and fourth. Paul Manier was in great position, but he got a little boxed in and sat up. He really had nothing to sprint for. He was in 11th. But Johan, do you want to give people just a brief background on where we recorded that live show and what had been we were at? Yeah.

So we spent the last three days together, Spencer, with, with you and Bradley in Belgium. Osteende. So there's an event called Wheeler Wattage Festival. First night was a gala dinner. And then today there were several shows, all cycling related shows on the set there. We were one of the invited shows. So thanks to Ruben van Huycht for inviting the move. A first time ever. we were in front of a live audience outside of the US. Yeah. I think it was very nice, Spencer.

What do you think? You know, it was a really nice setup and having, I mean, for me, it was a bit awkward to, to sit there and speak in English in from a Flemish crowd. But I think it went well. It was, it was different experience, but I hope that, you know, the people were going to see this live show after. this year after this small brief analysis of stage 21. I think everybody will like it.

What did you think? I was super impressed. I thought it was a really well done event. Obviously from like going there, they had great, you know, great concessions like would recommend going. But from trying,

you know, trying to record a live podcast outside, away from home, that's stress inducing. And they really had it set up well. I was pretty blown away by, you know, they had us in this little private clubhouse.

We're up there talking to Tom Dumalan and then a golf cart whist us to the back of the stage. We're on. It was a little funny speaking English in Belgium, your home country. But I think we made it work. I'm glad I was, it kind of sunk in. Like, wow, people really are investing time into this. Like they're sitting here on this nice day watching us jib jab about this year to tie you. So that was very cool to get to see the people in real life.

Yeah, yeah. Now, it was, it was for me also nice to see, you know, old friends. I met somebody who I raised with in cadets as a 15-year-olds. And we were even schoolmates. We went to school together in like in primary school. So he was actually also a guest there. He was a guest speaker. He's a professor in sports economics at the University of Leuven.

Who's his name? What's his name? His name is Wim Lara. Okay. Wim Lara. He wrote a book. He wrote a book about economics and sports and teaches sports teach sports economics there and many other people we saw so so it was nice and it was nice to see bradley

and get his take on on the on the giro so yeah i think it was super super super super exciting to be there and we'll probably go back next year yeah well let's not let's see the contract before let's see what they can offer it was it's like we were doing our own jiro to tell you we had we got to get the crew together get the engine revved up for the tour de france get bradley back in the mix but yoan what did you so what did you think about this sprint we we were full disclosure we missed our train we had to get another train we're changing trains all over flanders beautiful flanders by the way how the housing stock in west flanders looks incredible i'm blown away by it ready to move there but we watch this stage and there was some

breakaways with strong riders you know like ben turner who i thought would would go for the sprint like they went through the intermediate sprint and he just kept it rolling and he was off the front almost not maybe not frustration but there definitely was a sense of i'm ready for this to be done i'm getting to the finish as fast as i can because then gana attacked i thought a very strong attack marked perfectly by matteo sobriro and yesper stuyven one is from little trek one's from Sudeau Quicks step. So, of course, they just sat on his wheel and he just kept pushing. Like, all right, you guys are going to sit there.

I'm going to pretend like you don't exist. They get caught in the final few kilometers. And then Sude all quick stuff had a great lead out. Unibet, Unabet, they had a strong lead out, but they get kind of get to this. It's more uphill than you think. It's about 5% for the last 500 meters. And Jonathan Milan pops out of both of their wheels and just destroys them. You looked at them in this sprint.

you think there's no way this guy loses a sprint ever like how did he not win a stage so far i mean listen it's it's it's still jonathan milan you know so uh strong rider obviously uh today there was no contest who was the strongest sprinter i think paul mannier was brought perfectly in position as soon as he saw that he didn't have the necessary power to to sprint he kind of gave up not going to say he sat up but he gave up on the stage um and listen well done for milan for staying in the race, for keep trying and finally get that stage, it's a kind of it softened, softens the disappointing Giro that Little Trek had a bit. It's not easy to win a stage, but I'm sure he came for more than one stage and he came for the Chiclamino jersey.

Didn't accomplish that, but still, it shows what kind of quality rider Milan is and how strong of an athlete he is, more than just a sprinter. Yeah. You know, being definitely not at the end of his resources at the end of this Giro. So that's why the difference between him and the rest was so big. And then also, Spencer, you know, the typical kind of surprising result of some riders in the last bunch sprint of a ground tour, you know, Paul Penwett and Lonardi, who we have never seen in any of those sprints in the top five or even close to that.

now all of a sudden show up. That tends to happen. Tends to happen. Sometimes we get strange results. Sometimes we've gotten a really unexpected winner in the last stage of a grand tour, even in the Tour de France. But at least the winner today is a pure sprinter, one of the favorite sprinters and one of the best sprinters in the world.

So I think it's justice for Milan and for Little Trek to finally have that stage win. And the last one in Rome is, you know, at least the picture is not. nice, right? The last picture is nice. So that's good. I was happy to see him win. Yes, I was to, you could tell it personally meant a lot to him. I've never seen a more relieved man than Jonathan Milan after the finish. It turns what was a disaster of a race for Little Trek five days ago and do a nice little race for them, you know, because they get Derek G in the top five not that far off the podium. They win the KOM and they win a stage. Yeah. I mean, Yeah, if you look at, if you add that up, there are many teams in this Gero,

who would sign for this straight away if that's the end result. KOM, top five and a stage win. It's still pretty good. The thing is we start to see a little track as this winning machine, especially after the, you know, all the transfers they did, the money have spent and the ambitions they have. We count them as one of the four super teams. And, you know, they did not get the results that we expected from them.

But if you look at it at the end result, it's, you know, it could be a lot worse. Well, there's another super teams, supposed super team. They are a super team. Red Bull, Borough Hans grow. They get third overall. But unless I'm hallucinating, they didn't want to stay. No stage wins. No jersey wins.

No jerseys. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, there's a lot of super teams out there having a hard time. It's not it's not the easiest thing in the world. The classification winners are. So Milan wins the final. stage gc won by yonis vindigard the top 10 is felix skull second jai hindley timon aronsman

deroggi affonzo ullio and sixth i think i screw this up in the live show i meant to say pganzoli was eighth and domino caruso was ninth and i was just so distracted by the beauty of ostenda that i said ullalio instead of caruso but ullio sixth to me that is really really impressive wins the youth classification doing that michael store seventh David Piganzoli 8th, Damina Caruso 9th, Igem Bernal 10th, two Italians in the top 10. I believe for a while there's one Italian in the top 10 and that has never happened.

And now finally, speaking of Caruso, we just saw on our way here that he is not retiring. He just resigned for another year with Bahrain. So, yeah, listen, he's a strong, if he's motivated, I would give him another year. I mean, it's, it's, he can have results on it for, I mean, not a lot of the riders can be a top 10 in the grand tour. Let's start with that. And then on top of that, you know, the experience and the tranquility he brings to a team on the road is, it's definitely very valuable.

So Damiana Coruso keeps going. That was nice. Yes. I think these guys get overlooked and probably undervalued. Similar thing with Igan Bernal, you know, he's 10th and he's helping a lot. lot and you think, you know, how many riders can finish in the top 10 by grand tour? There's not that many of them. And if you have one and they're willing to resign, it's not bank, bank breaking, maybe do it.

Paul Monnier wins the points jersey over Jonathan Milan. Narvias went home. I don't even know if we discussed us. It was a little bit of a controversial, like second shooter on the hill situation where they said he ran into a team bus and then. Yeah. Off to the stage, actually. After the stage, he ran into a bus.

Initially, it looked okay, but then he took the start, didn't feel well. His knee started, his nose started bleeding. Okay, that's why that blood was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they decided to pull him out of race. Interesting. And then there also Michael Volgrin slinked off to prepare for the tour to front. So that is not a great look for the Giro to tell you.

When you have riders leaving to prepare for the tour, this is like keeping the Giro, organizers up at night. KOM was Chaconay over Yonis Vindigard. I thought pretty classy of Yonis to go up to Chikone yesterday and say, I'm not going to sprint you for this. Don't worry about it. Youth was won by Ullalio, Young Riders Jersey, and then teams.

I know everyone's, everyone's been waiting for this one. Vizumelisa bike wins the team classification. By how much? By how much? 40 minutes over net company, Ineos. Okay. That seems like a lot. I mean, it helps when you have two guys in the

top 10 and then a third guy, Sepkus, who's often there in the mountains, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else on this show, Johan? No. I mean, I think we've covered all of it in our live show, which all of you are going to listen to now. So, yeah, I, I was, it was an exciting three weeks. Uh, end result was the world will be expected at the start, I think, at least the winner,

but, uh, all in all, you know, grand tours never disappoint. You know, we, I've enjoyed it. Yeah. It was a very beautiful race. I think it's very cool to see Jonas Vindigard. I bring up in the live show, should he not have been here? Would it be a more interesting race if he wasn't here? But I could watch these champions win all day.

You know, like it's very cool that it's the eighth guy to only eighth person ever to win all three grand tours. And I believe only the third person in the modern air to win in his first time starting the Giro. It's be Pagachar and Contador would be the other one. ones. It's kind of funny though because Pagotcha and Vindigard only raced the Gero after they were two of the best stage races in the world. So of course they're probably going to win it.

But yeah, great race and enjoy the live show. Everybody, this episode is brought to by even realities. If you listen to the show, you know, Johan speaks all the languages one might need to know to fully understand. He ends and outs of pro cycling when I'm generally just nodding along. But guess what, Johan? The plane field could be leveled because

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I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here. as always with Johan Bernille and also with Bradley Wiggins who we're very happy to have join us we've never done a live show we've done one in Austin but never done one in Europe so it's

fantastic for Brubin to invite us over to do this Johan are you excited very excited I mean I don't come often to Belgium and to be able to do this in front of an audience of very enthusiastic people all cycling fans I'm very very happy very honored with the

invitation of Ruben to be part of this nice festival, so I hope you're all having a really good time. It's in English, so I guess that everybody who's sitting here will understand us. But yeah, very excited. We're going to talk about the Giro d'Italia, which is finishing today, the last stage, and let's see how it goes. Yeah, and Bradley, thanks for joining us. Back in your home country. Pretty much, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's nice to be back. It's good. Well, there's year to tell you, it's kind of funny doing the show because the last stage is starting soon. So we're jumping the gun a little bit, but it looks like Jonas Vindegarde's going to win with five-minute, 22-second gap over Phyllis G-Sgall. With Jai Henley, Jai or Jai? Did we ever figure that out, Johan? Jai Henley coming in at 625. Time in Arns have been 702, Derek G-756. Johann, I know you were concerned this winner about Jonas, you were concerned first week of the Giro.

Do you think he's going to hold on to win this thing today in Rome? I don't think I was concerned, Spencer. I will have to ask you the question. And for everybody present here, so Spencer and I do weekly shows about the cycling races. And I remember when Vizma and Jonas Vingeggard announced their program, his calendar. Spencer said, oh, I'm really worried about Jonas Wingergaard's program and his possibilities to win the Giro, because he's going to do the UAE tour and not race anymore, and then the Giro di Italia. So, Spencer, I have to ask you the question.

Are you still worried about the state of Jonas Wingergarde and his condition? Well, it's not wrapped up yet. We can see a late meltdown today in Rome. It would be unusual, but well, yes, we do a weekly show. We do have to find things to talk about every week, so I was reaching for something. But I was a little concerned.

He had a training crash, a fan, or... Oh, boy, that's Jonas. He's coming for us. That he crashed because someone was following close behind him in training, and then he pulled out a UAE tour at the last minute, and then he, I believe, he just had Catalonia on his schedule, and I thought that's kind of a light stage racing schedule

going into the zero. I couldn't find any historical example of someone doing that few race days going under the zero and winning. But then, of course, he showed up. And I, Perry Nees, especially, I feel like, were when my doubt started to look silly when he won the stage with the bibtites exposed. I think he was just, he was trolling us at that point, making fun of any doubters, like, hey, I can win in incorrect clothing. But yeah, I think he's good now. I think he's got it. But how have you, How have you, like Bradley, as you've watched this Giro, have you been impressed with his form throughout? With Jonas, yeah, I mean, he's gone without any problems of this Giro.

And I think it's a bit like the Volta last year. You know, it's been effort. It looks like it's been effortless for him in many ways. And I was just saying before, I wonder how this is going to set him up for July. This is the best Jonas Vinger, we've seen. over the last few years since he won the tour I would say but that's because

he's had a lot of problems in the run up to the Tour de France certainly in the last two editions so you know his form was coming back he did the Vuelta last year of course after the Tour de France and here he is at the Giro having one Paris Nice already having one Catalonia already so he's had a flawless season so far up to this point and it remains to be seen how that's going to set him up for July

in the big challenge that comes up against Taday yeah I mean I Unfortunately for Jonas, we always make the comparison to Taipei Pogacar, unfortunately for him. But, you know, I think we cannot forget, and I think we should highlight the fact that Jonas Fingerguard now is winning his third Grand Tour. I mean, several grand tours, but he won the Tour de France, he won the Vuelta. Now he's winning the Giro, and he's now part of history. And I think for any big champion, there are not that many riders who have done these three. There's eight riders in history who won all three Grand Tours.

You with your historic memory, do you know the eight? Do you know which eight riders won all three Grand Tours? With the Jonas? Yes. Vincenzo. Anybody? Yeah. Chris Frum.

Yes. Merks You tell me the rest Alberto Contador Bernardino and You don't even know Felice and Jimondi

Okay So eight riders only So that's a pretty select group to be part of And I think You know We're here to talk about the Giro I think it's amazing

What Vingegagart and Visma are accomplishing We say many times It is incredible, yeah. We all take Pogacar and UAE out of the equation, and Vizma is the team, they almost never fail. And I think if we look at this Giuritalia, the way they have prepared it,

the way they have controlled it, and the way they have executed their strategies is flawless. There has not been, in my opinion, any single moment where the race was out of their control. And I think that's very difficult to do. with a team as well that is not their full starting A lineup, is it? Yeah. They brought drafted in a few different guys that we haven't seen before.

There's a Neo Pro in there. And what they've done is remarkable, really. Everyone's raised their game to the level of Jonas in that team. Yeah, and I was going to ask you about that. We were talking at lunch, Bradley. They have this guy, Tim Rex. Neopro, I believe, Belgian writer, German-speaking Belgian perhaps. But he is crushing people.

He's on the front of the Peloton, dropping guys who, must, they must be better than him. And he's dropping them, like, how do you motivate, how do you, you know, it's not your A team, but you're here, you're trying to win. Like, how do you motivate these guys to kind of like push above and beyond what they thought is possible? Well, I think they're writing for Jonas Fingergore,

who is, you know, one of the greatest of all time, really, you know, in, you know, taking, again, taking Taday out the equation, and what Jonas has achieved, and the confidence they have in him, it's testament to his leadership ability, you know. He walks the walk, you know, he's not a leader that walks around being very brash and making big statements

he's very, you know, as you said, he's very cryptic in his messaging what he puts out into the world, but he's clearly someone that everyone likes to be around and likes to ride for. And you see the effort all those riders put in on a daily basis, not just him. Are you seen in the Tour de France in the last few years,

Walt Van Arne? Victor Campanard's, the way those guys sacrificed themselves for Jonas says a lot about Jonas' leadership style. Yeah, I don't think it needs any specific motivation, and Bradley can back me up on that. Bradley has been in a team. He won the Tour de France with a team around him. I had several teams to win the Tour de France, and the way these riders rise up to the occasion and do things that I am 100% sure some of these riders were convinced

that they were not capable of doing what they have done. And having the leaders jersey in a Grand Tour is the best motivator. You know, especially in the second part of a ground tour when everybody starts to be tired. And I said it in another podcast, you know, you are suffering with a purpose. You know, everybody's suffering. But if you suffer and you look back and you see the leader's jersey behind you and you see, and then in the car, they keep coming back. Okay, this guy is dropped.

This guy is dropped. And you just keep going and they get hyped up. Tim Rex is a good example. if you see for example David De P. Ganzoli, a young rider, he did an amazing job. I'm pretty sure that before the Gero

he did not think at all that he was going to be in some of the mountain stages the third or the fourth best rider in the race. And it's a consequence of having the leader's jersey and being, I mean,

you put the hurt on the peloton with a pleasure that normally you have to kind of submit yourself to a team that makes you suffer and now you're in the driver's seat and that changes the rider. One thing I think Vizmoda I've done really well the last five or six years is create such a winning mentality and such a winning culture within that team.

When Vy Jonas is coming to a bike race, they know what the job is. They're there to win. And I think the guys that go to those races with Jonas's team leader know what their job is. They know what the expectations are. And we were talking earlier, how many grand tours of Visma won in the last six years? I mean, certainly, you know, we've set close at the Volta, Simon Yates last year, Jonas at the Volta. I mean, they've shared the spoils between UAE, Visma and one quick step within the last six,

seven, eight years, is it? Yeah, so it is shocking to think about it. But just off the top of my head, it would be Vizma. The teams that are not Vizma that have won grand tours are UAE, one quick step. two Red Bull Boras, and that might be it. Yeah. And one Ineos. I mean, Jiroita, 2021 was the last time Ineos won one.

So, I mean, so here's my next question for you. You, Johan, as a director, you're coming in, you're going up against Vizma at the Giro. Like, what's the plan? Like, how do you stop that? Well, I mean, it all depends on the quality of riders you have. I mean, I think it was no secret for anybody that when they announced the Giro Route and they announced that Jonas Wingerard was going to participate with Visma. And on top of that, certain other riders had to pull out Carapas, fell away, Almeida, couldn't start.

I don't know, there's probably another rider. But anyway, you know that Jonas Wingergarde is the second best stage racer in the world in Grand Tours. He has never finished below first or second. So it's not that complicated to figure it out. You know, you're bearing an unforeseen circumstance, a crash in illness or a mechanical problem at a bad moment. And even that, I would question that would be a possibility to take advantage of. You know you're riding for second place.

And so I think that's what the other teams have done. You know, the decathlon, for example, at Felix Gall, from the very beginning, they were clear. They knew that Felix Gall was in great condition. but they have never had any ambition to win. It was, the purpose was to be the best of the rest. And I think that's been the interesting part of this Giro. I mean, I personally have enjoyed the exhibitions of Jonas Wingergaard

on those climbs and the way he attacks and has no doubts and puts out an amazing performance. But the really interesting part was the battle for the podium. And it's been, you know, it was very close until yesterday, basically. We didn't know who was going to be second or third. but if you have such a strong rider at the start with such a strong team the only thing you can hope for is to be the best of the rest

and be ready in case something happens with that guy that's all you can do there's other way there's no strategy of any team or even a combined strategy of several teams that could have beaten this Jonas Wingergart and this Vizmalisa bike in this Giro I mean Bradley is a rider you're going a big champion you're going in like would your mindset be that?

Like, I got a race for second, or are you thinking, I got to figure out a way to beat this guy? I mean, I think, aside from doing that individually, because every rider has doubts as well, you know, every big rider will have their doubts as to whether they can beat someone who's that dominant

and that good. But I think it's more the responsibilities of the team and who's in charge of the team as to where they, you know, is a podium more important than winning and going all out for the win? Do we want to make sure we finish on the podium? because we realistically have no chance of beating this guy.

And I think that is dependent on the ethos of the team and who's running the team as to, do we want to chase this guy down? Do we want to make sure that we've got everything possible to compete with these guys and beat them? Or do we want to conserve our sponsorship budgets and things like that and make sure we hit podiums in these races? And I think it's difficult, isn't it? Because it's a sport, we're all in it to win. but you don't get anything for finishing nowhere.

So, you know, contracts are up for grabs and people's salaries and things like that. So a podium finish in a grand tour, it sets you up for the next three or four years, doesn't it? So, you know. I mean, I think the strategies of teams, and we've seen this now in the last, especially in the Tour de France, right? We have these two guys who are heads and shoulders above anybody else. The third rider has never been close to the first second. the first and second, Pogacchar and Jonas. And there's been a lot of discussions about strategies

and we need to isolate this guy. In this case, isolating Jonas and in the Tour de France, isolating Pogacar. They're so dominant that you only accomplish one thing. The sooner you isolate them, the sooner they attack. We saw it yesterday. You know, the moment these two riders run out of teammates, that's when they go.

And you're only going to lose more time. So it must be frustrating, but I think there's always, and cycling is not exact science, there's always hope that somebody's going to have a bad day. You know, in the beginning of this zero, Vingerard was winning, but he was not dominant. And there was hope. You know, the first time, the first big mountain stage was on Blockhouse,

he only took 13 seconds on Felix Gall. The time trial on stage 10, he didn't have a great time trial. And there was hope. Then for sure, I think Jonas Wingergaard started the Gero not in 100% condition. There was talks of a little illness which he overcome. And now the last five mountain stages, it was game over. But you have to try to create a situation that you're in pole position in case something happens.

And that can also be a bad day. Doesn't recover well. Get sick overnight. It happens all the time. So I think that's the way their rival teams have to see it. Be ready in case the opportunity arises. Didn't like Eddie Merck get punched in the kidney or something in the tour de France? Yeah.

Yeah, so I guess anything can happen. I mean, it's funny you bring up the 13 seconds on Blockhouse to Gall. I was one of these people saying, oh, man, Gaul was gaining on him. We got a race here. His climbing performance was almost identical physically to yesterday on Piancovalo, where he got Marco Pantani's record. So, but his gaps are going up. It was 13 seconds on stage 7, 12 seconds on stage 9, 49 seconds on stage 14, 109 on stage 16,

and then yesterday 1 15, all of those gaps to Gall, by the way, who finished second on every summit finish that Vindigard won, incredible race for Gaul. But it shows you that you perceive him to be getting better, but he's just not degrading at the same rate as the others. Like even SEP Kuz yesterday, great Grand Tour Champion, he's getting dropped because of the effort the day before. Jonas is fine.

Like, Bradley, what do you would be, is that just genetics? Are you just, you can handle the effort a little bit better as a champion? Yeah, I think so. I think it's been that efficient over three weeks to be able to make repeated efforts at that kind of power and that kind of output. And he's got so good at it the last few years as well. And I think the Peloton as a whole are doing that as well. I know some people are dropping off,

but the performances, we were talking about it earlier compared to a few years ago have been so elevated from everyone. And I guess that just comes from the amount of repetition you do in training of those efforts. And of course the nutrition has a lot to do with it. I think the guys have a lot more carbs now in the finals than they're used to.

So they're able to, it's not that they're going faster on the earlier climbs, but they're able to produce the same effort on the last climbs of the day. and the training, you hit a good point there, because people will say, well, why don't just go and do what Pagacar does, train exactly like him,

but Johan was saying this morning, that can lead to not the results you want, because you just physically can't handle the training. Yeah, I mean, you know, I've seen it in the past, and I think, you know, in Pogacar's case, and I'm pretty sure with Yon's finger guard, it's the same. You know, let's not forget that first and foremost, those guys have a huge engine,

like a super Formula One engine, engine and then the rivals who are big engines, but not the same quality. That's the first difference. I've seen, for example, in the past, I mean, it's many years ago now, but in the early 2000s, you know, we started to really prepare for the Tour de France with US Postal and Discovery, and we had this amazing team assembled around Lance Armstrong with really strong riders, you know, Vyaclavikimov, Roberto Herras, Rubiera, Acevedo, Peña, George Hinkapie, many, many really good riders.

But I discovered, the first time we did like a big training camp with the whole team, we made the mistake that everybody wanted to train every day the same distance, the same mountains, the same intensity as Lance Armstrong. And after three, four days, Armstrong stayed at the same level. And then everybody else started to be tired until the point. point that some guys got injured. I remember one year, don't remember which year was, was 2002 or 2003. Roberto Herrera and Chichu Rubeira, which were the two best climbers who had to be next to Armstrong in the mountains, they had to abandon the training camp with knee problems, and we

almost didn't get them fit for the Tour de France because they had tried to follow the intensity of Armstrong. And with Vingeguard and Pogacchar, it's the same thing. You never see the whole team training. I mean, they all go to altitude camps now. But I've never seen the whole team, for example, training on a big day, every single day with Pogacar. He only goes with one guy, another guy, and they switch. It's not always the same guy.

And that's what, I think that's also one of the qualities of a big champion is the way you're able to train at which intensity and how your body assimulates that training and you just keep getting better and better and better where the others can do that one day, two days, and then they need two or three days to recover. That's what makes the difference. And that's also what makes the difference in a grand tour.

Jonas Winkigard right now is exactly on the same level, every single mountain stage. But yet he starts to take more time, which means that the others are degrading and not recovering in the same way. And Bradley is an incredible win by Yon We don't want to sound like we're not giving it its due, but is this a good idea?

If he wants to win the Tour de France, should he even be at the Sherrodite? Why not? Because he's tried the other way a couple of times. And I think, you know, at some point, aside from thinking about his own power, Morris, because there has to be a part of him that wanted to win the Gero to add,

so he's won all three. I did see an interview with him yesterday. He said he wants to win as many races as possible in his career. and why not, you know, and yeah, I actually think that this will set him up better than we've seen him in previous years at the Tour de France than he has been. I mean, the last two years he's been dogged with crashes coming into the Tour de France, and even last year, I think we were questioning whether he'd even make the start line of the Tour de France, and he did, and he ran second and everyone would say pushed Taday, but he was there for most of the race. So Jonas being someone who's been at the Gero, won five stages, looks to be. in the form of his life in terms of numbers and the stats.

Going into this Tour de France can be confident that, you know, he can push Tadde more than he has done in previous years. So I don't see it as a negative thing as to why he's at the Gero. Because, you know, I think the sport has changed so much now. There was, you know, I think gone of the days now of the Gero Tour being, the Gero Tour double of being too hard and impossible to do. I think now the way guys are racing, the way guys are recovering, the way, you know, it's a different sport now and I think these guys have coming to the Gero with less days racing than ever

and going to the tour with less days racing than they ever done in terms of preparation so I think it's um I think July is going to be really exciting yeah I would like to add also you know obviously five it's five weeks now from the Gero to the tour there is time to recover as you say Bradley in today's cycling everything is so monitored that they know exactly what they're doing. But I would like to add another fact that is very important also is that Jonas Wingergaard and Visma can now go into Tour de France without a lot of pressure. They have won the Gero. Jonas has won every single race he started. You know, he won Paris Nis, he won Catalonia, he won the Giro. He doesn't have to mean he wants to win the tour but he comes in relaxed.

Like if he doesn't win, it's not going to be a failure. Pogachar is now in a different situation because if you're the best, everybody expects you to win. Anything but a win is a failure for Pogacar and UAE. And this is not the case for Vizma. It changes a lot in the approach because, you know, there's the physical fitness, the physical tiredness, but mentally also we have a lot of energy wasted on stress, you know, nerves, pressure.

and I think this is an advantage. He comes in really relaxed, and if he finished second in the Tour de France behind Pogacar, everyone will say, okay, great job, it's normal, Pogaccia's good, you know, but he doesn't have this super obligation, whereas Pagatja and UAE have to win.

I know, you know, in our run with Lance and the seven tours, you know, we were in a city, being second was never an option, and that's not easy to deal with. You know, you start the Tour de France, the teammates need to be ready. They're super stressed.

They have to perform at the moment they want to perform. And it's not an easiest position to be in. So that's now on Pogacar, and Jonas can just sit back and say, okay, I'm going to follow, follow, follow, try to follow. And if he breaks under pressure, I'll be there. That's a very good point. And people don't remember it, but Pagachar was in the same position. He had lost two tours in a row, just like Jonas has.

and he went to the Giro, did it, and get one in the pocket, and then you go to the tour without pressure. It's still probably a lot of pressure, but it's less pressure. And I heard a crazy report from inside the team that they had, they have this so under control that they circled five days to, quote, unquote, go hard. And the rest were training days. This is during a grand tour. And I would guess the five days they went hard were the days they won.

And then he was basically at a training camp. And he's not paying for food. So, like, that's great. You're saving money. RCS is paying for your meals. And you're on the road at a training camp. Probably not ideal, but it's, I was skeptical, but hearing that it kind of made sense to me. And then hearing you add that they have less pressure.

You can kind of start to get this picture of why exactly they're here and what they're thinking with it. And even when you think in the last 12 months. I mean, he won the Volta as well at the end of last season. Yeah, he's won the last two. You know, so he's won the last two grand tours as well as Paranese, as well as Catalonia. And so it's probably the best year of his career in terms of numbers, in terms of performances, and wins, other than he got second at the Tour de France last year, but that may all change this July. We have a trivia question for you. Johann knows the answer, so he can't answer.

Since he started winning stage races, do you know the only rider other than Pagachar that he's lost to? And I'm not counting Sepkos, who he gave the Volta 2. You'll never guess it. David Godo. But other than that, it's... Pagachar every time. Like, that's an incredible... David Godu and Paris Nis.

Yeah, because... Two years ago. Yonis, I think it might have been three years ago. Three years ago. Yonis got third behind Godu and Pagachar. Gaudu, Vingerard. Yeah, I remember.

And then he went on to win the tour. So maybe that was a strategy. I don't know. Outside, there are other riders at this race. Outside of Yonis, it's actually been kind of a sneaky, close race. If he's not here, it's Fieldskull first. Jai Henley second at 103 back Timon Arnsman at 140 back

Derek G at 234 back but Derek G also lost a minute and two seconds on stage two due to the crash so it's basically the rest of those guys are it's this band that's just stuck together and it's been pretty interesting to watch them I mean what are they were they here just as you said Johan

just we're going for the podium like since Blockhouse that's been the focus I mean I think so I think before no even before Blockhouse I think everybody before the Giro knew that Vingard and Visma were going to win normally. But it's been an interesting battle. I think probably, I don't know if it's after Blockhouse or after the second mountain stage, if you asked me my podium prediction, I said, Vingerard Gull and Jindley,

because I saw Hindley getting better. Which was the podium on that stage as well? It was the podium. I mean the four big mountain stages. stages one, two, and three, and in that order have been the podium. There's no secrets. The mountain stages are very honest. Unless they're one from a breakaway, you can have a different result.

But Felix Gall is super happy. Decathlon is super happy. I'm sure that Red Bull is happy with the podium of Jay Hindley. Jay Hindley is in an amazing situation because he's end of contract. I don't know if he signed already or not, but definitely in negotiation. So for him being a Grand Tour winner and having been third in the zero already and now being third again in this stage of his career, he's most likely not going to stay at Red Bull and move to another team, probably Vismalisa Bike, which would be he's in a great situation to either negotiate or renegotiate.

This can be the new Simon Yates. for Visma, right? Absolutely. Well, I don't see why not. Yeah. Yeah. They're also really good at finding talent, aren't they Vizma? Yeah, they are. We talk about UAE and how they find these young 21-year-old grand tour winners.

But Vizma have got a really good influx each year of good young riders that raise their game at these grand tours and show themselves. I mean, look, Biganzoli. Viganzoli comes from Palti, Pulte and Palti. You know, a smaller team. he was not on my radar. I mean, obviously, Vizma knew what they were doing because otherwise he wouldn't have gone there.

But yeah, they find these guys. I mean, I think Visma has a really good system. They have obviously their own development team, but they have a nice scouting system also outside of it. And there's many, many examples of young riders who, and even more veteran riders, who go to Visma and up their game. And it's obviously one of the most structural.

shirt and most well-run team, I think, in cycling right now. Yeah. I mean, you look at Matt Brennan as well that's there. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, Matt was Judy World Champion with my son, Ben, in the Madison, and won the individual pursuit that year, the track world. And wasn't, you know, no one thought he was going to be like he is now.

But as soon as he went to Visma, you know, he advanced so quickly and got confidence riding around all that guys and look what he's done on the circuit in the last two years. I mean, Vizma, on the topic of Vizma, at this, that, Johan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only eight teams have won stages through 20 stages of the Giro. That's crazy. Another, a team that hasn't won yet could technically win today. Little Trek would be the obvious candidate or Unabet, Rose Rockets. But Vizma has six wins at this race.

That is stunning. I mean, Yonis is five of them. The last time, when Pogacar did the Giro, he won six stages. So, UAE technically had six then. UAE with only five riders has four stage wins. That's got to be the highest rider to win stage win ratio in Grand Tour history. Sidaw QuickStep has three. Astana has two.

EF has two. That's incredible, by the way. They've had a terrible season. They get two wins at this race. Net company Inios has won. Bahrain, victorious has won. Unox has one. That's big for UnoX.

First ever zero. They get a stage win. This is, Bradley, you were saying at lunch, I was asking you, like why are we seeing, I feel like less interesting racing. I remember in the mid-20 teens, the Giro's where it felt like anyone could win. Now everything's getting ironed out. I kind of put the blame on you.

This was kind of the playbook from Sky where they would pace the front. But that was just the tour. Now it seems to be happening at every race. Well, I think it's the most efficient way to win a race and it's the most guaranteed way of getting your leaders to the last climb in the most efficient way to launch and execute everything that they've done in training.

But the Giro historically was always like that. It was very difficult to keep tabs on it and difficult to control the Gero. And certainly in my era, a lot of that was to do with the likes of Vincenza Nibli, Naira Kintana that would like to mix it up and throw caution to the wind. The weather always played a big part in the Gero. The course, of course, does. There's no set pattern to the Gero like there is the tour where you have a predominantly flat first week. and then you go into either the Alps of the Pyrenees,

the Giro, they become thick and fast, depending where you were in Italy. So it's always unpredictable the Gero, but Vizma, you know, they've, I mean, last year's race at the Gero, that came down to the last day, didn't it? Yeah, that was a wild, old-fashioned Giro. But what I will say is that that probably has a lot to do

with the presence of Jonas Vinger Gle, and the way he wants to ride, and the way he wants his team to ride, the way they set up to ride in order to complement his ability. You take Jonas out of the race this year, and it's wide open, isn't it? to who could have won the Giro. Yeah.

Yeah. And you were saying, yeah, UAE, when they have Pagachar as one team, when they don't have Pagachar, they are agents of chaos. It's not the same type of control. But they were at the Giro last year when they had it in the bag

into the last day, didn't they? I still can't believe that. I still just fly. It's also not a guarantee, Spencer. Let's say, let's just forget about Vingegart and Vizma in this Gero and it's a race amongst these other, second, third, Ford, Gull,

Hindley, Aronsmann, Derek G. I'm not convinced that this would be the order. That would be one, two, three, and four, because the race would have been very differently. Some guys could probably have taken advantage of a breakaway, whereas now there's always been this formidable force of Visma bringing everything back. If those teams were in control of first, second, and third position,

I'm not sure that number two, three, and four would have been number one, two, and three. What do you think, Bradley? No, I mean, it's very difficult to predict now, isn't it? But I agree with you. I don't think it would have been in that order. I think it would have been a different race. And the confidence of the other riders chasing, say if Felix Gow had been in the pink jersey,

I think it would have been a very different tactical affair going into these tougher stages we've just had as to how they would have dislodged Felix. And would have decahathlon been strong enough to do the job that Vizma have done. So it's very difficult to predict that. But it would have been a different order. for sure. Yeah, and it's, I kind of think Jay Hindley would have won.

If Jonas isn't there, and you let him, like, let Jack. Maybe, I mean, he's got good history with the Giro, isn't he? Yeah, and he can kind of, he, he thrives in chaos. Like, if there's no one making pace on the front. He always comes good, the third week of the Giro as well. Yeah, the story of the bigger the mountains, the deeper into a grand tour, the better he is.

So we have, I, I could not find a worse Italian top finish in his year to tell you ever. So David Dei Pigan's, Zoli is eighth. Afonzo Ullalio, the second young rider, and the competition was behind him in ninth, could you guys remember a lower highest play scene for an Italian rider in their home grand tour? I think Italy right now, and, you know, if you look, Spain goes a bit through the same

situation, you know, Italian cycling is in trouble. you know the big favorite I mean favorite he hasn't done it yet so but was Giulio Pellizari that was the big hope he got sick couldn't perform I think also he peaked too early was incredible strong in Tour of the Alps usually if you're super strong there

in the Giro you don't make it till the end at the same level I think Italy and Spain they're feeling the way the economy is of the country. There's no teams. We're talking, okay, there's no Italian rider in the front. There is no single Italian world tour team around. If you look at Spain, there's only one world tour team, which is Movistar.

I mean, we remember the days where there were seven, eight Italian teams, six Spanish teams of the highest level. That's not the case now. So I think it's a consequence. It just tickles down towards, you know, if there's no teams, you can't have great riders. And so I think it's, I don't know what the solution is. But obviously there's no Italian or Spanish companies who want to heavily invest in cycling. And that needs to change first. I mean, if there's no teams, there's no infrastructure, there's no idols or heroes for the younger riders.

And it's just never going to work. I guess it's not just cycling, like everything about football. Like when we were growing up Bradley, it seems like all the biggest players and the biggest teams were in Italy. And now it feels like they've been left behind. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But I think it's just it reflects the economy, doesn't it? It reflects, you know, but also I think the budgets have changed now. What's required for an Italian team to compete at the highest level is a lot different to what it was 20 years ago, isn't it?

And if you don't have someone who's a household name, who's potentially a case, of winning the Tour de France like Paul Sexas or things like that, then it's very difficult for a company to get involved in it and it's, and back its rider. So I think it's going to, until they find a rider, they're going to struggle, Italy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we should say Pelazari, very good. And the teamwork he did on Stage 19 was super impressive, like recovered from the illness.

So I'm a big fan of his. Yeah, but that's not what he came for. And not what he came for. But we are, are we, we're in an air. where we're pretty hard on young riders. Like, this was kind of the path for a while. You go to a grand tour, you kind of get a feeling for what it's like to lead,

and then you get better and better every year. We don't really let guys maturate anymore. But Derek G. reminds me of you a little bit, Bradley. Really? He's a big track. Track rider, very strong, can put out a lot of power on long climbs.

I thought he was fantastic in this third week, one of the strongest riders in the race. Like, what is his path as a? grant or a contender, do you think? Well, I mean, it's difficult, but is it? But, I mean, I think it's very difficult for him now. The way this generation is well, competing against Tade Bagata, I know we keep mentioning him, but, you know, he hears a phenomenon.

Tade and Jonas, you know, it's difficult. Where do all the other riders that sit in those two tiers behind look to go now? You know, is it for podiums? and someone like Derek D. Does he try and win a Grand Tour one day? I mean, I don't know. There's so many other races within the cycling calendar that you can win now.

I don't know where he goes from here. I don't think Derek G can win a Grand Tour in this generation. I think this is his place. He was fourth last year. Fifth now, I think this is his level. I mean, listen, there are not many riders who can be top five in a grand tour in the Peloton.

So it's, you know, You're a very good rider when you're fifth in the Giro. But you get to a point where I can't even see him contending for a third place. There's always going to be three riders who are stronger than him in any grand tour. I mean, maybe he gets third in the Vuelta one year. If I would be Derek G., and I would be his team, I would try to focus on one-week stage races where these two big riders are not present. That would be my goal.

And there are many races where these riders don't race. But then you have Paul Seixas and you have Palizari and you have Ayuso and Almeida and there's a lot of good riders. So if you look at all those names, Derek J. is a great writer, but he will need a lot to fall into place to be on the podium in a ground tour or even to win one of those seven one-week important stages like or Basque Country or Catalonia, et cetera. He didn't have some bad luck.

He lost time early in a crash. He probably wasn't his normal self in the first week because of that. And he was still pretty close. But are we assuming, like, are we just penciling in, Jonas and Tade winning every grand tour? Like there must be grand tours coming up where they're not going to be. Well, there's going to be grand tours. They're not racing.

Yeah, there has to be. Unfortunately, this year, it looks like, it looks like Bogacha is going to go to the Vuelta under normal circumstances. So every grand tour is either going to be Bogacha or Wingergaard this year, I think. Yeah, probably. I mean, do we know that, though? Is he really going to win the tour and then go to the Vuelta?

I mean, if he wants to win all three ground tours, he's going to have to go one day back to the Vuelta. And I personally think the sooner he does it, the better. That is a good point. If you put it off, we were talking earlier today, just the light switch goes out. And someone comes along and can't beat him. I don't think it matters if he does or it doesn't. It doesn't. I mean, we know he could win the Walsh if he went up.

I think what he did the other year when he won the Giro the tour on the World Championship was far more impressive than winning and having all three grand tours to his boat. But I personally think that Pogacar's one of those guys who absolutely wants to win the Vuelta. It looks like he's sticking off. We could just give it to him. I mean, we know he could win it.

Yeah, just like it. Just give it a complimentary one. He's at that level now, isn't he? It's like getting, you know, when you get in the UK? an honorary degree at university. An honorary Valti championship. Yeah, he's at that point. But listen, it's not confirmed.

I just heard rumors that he's planning on going to the Vuelta, but as usual, you know, you first have to get rid of the Tour de France, and then you reassess what the situation is. We also know he absolutely wants to win the world championships again. It's in Montreal. Jeez, that would be something if he wins that. It's hard.

I personally think it's probably between Zuri where he won two years ago, Kigali last year and next year in the French Alps. Montreal is probably a race which is also accessible for other riders. He's not going to be the only favorite. Yeah, but so is Rube in Flanders. Sorry? So is Rubei. Exactly, exactly.

It doesn't matter, isn't it. So is Rubei, yeah, right? We're talking about Bogachar. So, but yeah, I think, I mean, I think it would be nice if he goes to the Vuelta. And then, you know, then finally, both of those riders have all three grounds. tours and they can leave some to the other guys. Yeah, not true. Well, is this, I want to see him at the Valta,

I like seeing Yonis here, but is this bad? If Yonis wasn't at this, Giro, is it more interesting? Are these guys just cannibalizing the calendar? No, I don't think so, no. No. I think they have every right to, they are the best riders that's generally. It's not for them to not compete or slow down

for everyone else to catch up. It's for everyone else to catch up. They're setting the bar. They're setting the standard, which is why the sport is thriving at the moment, is because that's the standard, and everyone's chasing them. And I think the fans also want and expect the best riders to win the best races.

Let's say, if we look at this Giro d'Italia, for example, and Vingergaard is not present, right? And so it would have been a battle between Felix Gull and Hindley and Arnsman and Derek G. I don't, I mean, the race is, itself would have probably been very interesting and very unknown until the last few stages who would have won. But would people have liked it? I mean, I like it if there's a big star and the big star wins because he's the strongest. That's ultimately what the sport is about. I mean,

the strongest rider should win. I mean, that's the correct. You have the correct answer. That's what it's all sports are about. Like, we want to see Djokovic win. a million majors in tennis. But personally, just for me, I wish they would have done the race. I want to see who would have won. Gall versus Henley versus G. Yeah, well, we're not going to know. We'll never know.

But Bradley, before we move on, I have a few questions for you guys about the tour, our taboo in-section. But how's the Gero different from the tour? It's someone that targeted both to win them. Well, I think there's less eyes on it. I mean, half the people here probably don't know it's going on at the moment. What is the Gere to time? No, I think, I think, you know, the tour, when it's on,

You can't go anywhere in the world without, you know, realizing it's on. And that's what difference from that for the Giro. The Giro is something that is romanticized because of the history involved with it. It's a great race. It's Italy's race. It's Italy's, you know, pride and joy. But the pattern of the race is different. So you can, you know, depending on where it starts within Italy, most of the time,

I know it's been moving out of the country and started in Bulgaria this year. but depending on where it starts you're then, because of the shape of the country you know it determines what the stages are like from there on as you head up to the mountains and that means you could have a mountain of stage on day three

Mountain Summit finish on day three or you know so you know a couple of flat stages and it's very difficult to deal with that whereas the Tour de France has a pattern to the race and normally we don't have a first summit finish in the tour at least till day seven, day eight.

And then, you know, you'll have a few transition stages in between those summit finishes, and then you'll go into the Pyrenees or the Alps, depending which way around they do it, and then a few flat stages on a time trial, and then Paris. So there's much more pattern to the race, but the jurors never like that. It can come thick and fast.

The weather is a big part to play as well, because, you know, depending as well, in this month or year, if you go into the high mountains, we've been over the, you know, the Garvier at times in the snow, and the Pasojao's, you know, stages are being.

cancelled in the Jira. So you're at the lap of the gods in terms of the weather. So it's very different. And that brings it a different set of challenges as well historically, which is what makes it more of a historic race, more a romantic race as well, because there's some classic pictures from the past of Charlie Hull walking over the Garvey in the snow because he was unable to ride his bike. And, you know, it's great. Do you guys, I have some questions for you, not about the Jirita Taya. Any other last year of thoughts you want to get out? About the Giro.

I listen, I mean, hats off to Paul Manier. Three stage wins. That we know. Suddahl Quickstep really did well in supporting him, bringing him to this race. We don't know. Maybe four today, we'll see. But anyways, Young Rider is establishing himself as one of the top sprinters and really starting to be a really complete sprinter,

like a strong sprinter. Winning the points jersey in a grand tour is not easy. I think that deserves a very, very honorable mention. Afonso Ullalu, a writer that most of the broad public probably has never heard of. Wins the White Jersey, the young classification, took advantage of a breaker bay but controlled the difference and stayed in there. He finished a six, if I'm mistaken, in the G.C. But also wins the White Jersey, I think that's something that,

nobody was counting on, not even himself, I think. What else is there? I mean, of course, I think the race changed quite a bit with the crash of UAE on stage two, losing their three strongest riders, but then the way UAE has turned it around and transformed their team with five riders into stage hunting and winning four stages, that's very, very, very nice and very difficult to do as a team, because, you know, I can imagine only after stage two, you know, the atmosphere in the bus and at the dinner table, you're all of a sudden there, five remaining riders for almost three weeks.

And they made really the most of it. So that's a big success. And then I would say we'll have to wait until after today's stage. But, you know, disappointing for the moment, Giro d'Italia for Little Trek. I think they came for stage wins with Jonathan Milan, who's considered one of the top three sprinters in the world. For one reason or another, it never worked out. You know, a bit of a consolation prize with the King of the Mountains, with Chicone,

but that's not what they came for. So, yeah, I think that's more or less it. Other than, once again, you know, hats off to Visma and Vingeguard for this amazing show. Should, speaking of Little Trek, rumors are that they're going to try to sign Felix Gall, that Gall's contract was not finalized before the zero smart move, if true, for Gall?

Does someone need to step? Do they have a spending problem at Little Trek? Do they need Phelis Gall? They have a lot of money. They have a lot of money. It's a big sponsor. They have big ambitions. I can see, I mean, first of all,

I didn't know that Felix Gall was out of contract. And I think also, you know, it makes sense also because Deccatlon is obviously heavily investing in Paul Seixas. Felix Gaul was fifth in the tour and probably top five or top six in the Vuelta or the Gero one year. But, you know, until this Giro, he's not been one of the top three riders. And we don't know if he's going to be able to repeat that in the future either. He's definitely a good climber. But, you know, being Austrian and the ambitions of... of little, the company Little, the supermarket.

It's German company, but the person who is responsible for the sponsorship money in sports is an ex-cyclist who was always on my team, Austrian guy, Thomas Roreger. Do you remember Thomas Roregger? So he's the guy who is deciding on the budget. So they have a lot of money. And obviously for Felix Gall, I think it would be amazing because if he's out of contract, second in his market value goes up. He would never get what he gets paid in Decathlon

compared to what he can get now after his second place. So I think it can make sense. At the same time, it's a gamble because it's very difficult to see Felix Gall winning a grand tour in the next two or three years unless these big guys are not there. Yes. But where does he fit into that team?

Like they just signed Juan Yuso. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, listen, Juan Yuso is good, young, but you have to, I mean, Juan Yusso is not going to do all three ground tours. There's plenty of calendar to share. And if they want to be present in every single race, then they need several leaders. I do think the story of this Gero, the lesson,

the learning is three, like a gall and Iuso in a G, even though they may cost the same monetarily are not equal to a Bogachar. Like you kind of have everything or you have nothing in terms of these GC contenders. So it makes me a little nervous when I see it. Like it's like they're trying

to get a bunch of bees and make them and have one A but I just worry they'll have a bunch of the same rider. But there are no A's available. There's no A's available. There's potentially one A available. Oh, Paul Sexas. Yeah, but in 2020

27, no, 2028, sorry. Well, 27 is still have a contract. Didn't, it wasn't why you so under contract and then now he's... Yeah, but, yeah, this is going to be different. Bradley, you're coming back? We can get you, get you a huge contract to be a... I mean, it's funny talking to Tom Dumoulin just before we came over here and we were both saying the same thing, you know, don't miss it one bit.

And I was so glad we're not racing in this generation now. But I think it doesn't, you know, within a few years of retiring and looking back and you're watching him now, you forget how hard it is. But it's, I'm glad I'm not racing in this generation. Well, before we wrap up, what is Tadipagha doing right now? Is he worried? He's watching us live. He's here. Come on out.

Is he worried watching Jonas dominate the zero? I don't think so. I mean, I can't speak. for him, but the way he approaches the sport, it's what makes him so great as well, he doesn't get overawed by anything. I think he'll actually, part of him, will enjoy Jonas winning and saying he deserves it, you know?

But that guy turns when he gets in a bike race, and he's a different animal. But I don't think he's someone who gets affected by, I don't know, he's won, I hope, I'm worried now. I think if it does anything, it'll keep him on the top of his toes. It's going to be motivated for him. He knows that Wingergaard is on a high level,

and then he needs to keep his game or step up his game, which I think he's actually still improving. He's training in Seattle Nevada now at altitude. For sure, they watch the races, they watch the results, their trainers have the data, they know the power output. It's public, right? So they know exactly, if anything, he will use it as fuel to train harder and to raise his level to another dimension.

Who wins the tour? Pogachar. Taday. Raise your hand if you think Pagachar is going to win the tour to fronts. Okay. So it's quite a few hands. What about Jonas Vindigard? Oh, you got a couple.

What about Remko? Nice. What about Wild Van Art? Do we have any believers? That's nice. That's my pick as well. Do you guys have anything else? Should we let these people get on?

Yeah, I think we've covered most of it. And once again, thank you to everybody for being here listening to us. And this was a great invitation, a great first. And I hope we will be back next year with another episode of the move. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.