THEMOVE - Giro d'Italia Stage 20 Analysis & Stage 21 Preview | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: May 31, 2025

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin break down Stage 20 of the Giro d’Italia, where Simon Yates turned the race on its head with a blistering, and poetic, ascent of the infamous Colle delle Finestre, to drop Richard Carapaz and former race leader Isaac del Toro to cap an incredible comeback and seal overall victory. They analyze the team tactics and rider decisions that led to the outcome, before previewing tomorrow's final stage in Rome, predicting who will win, how the action will unfold, and which riders offer the best betting value. NordVPN: Get your Exclusive NordVPN deal here → https://nordvpn.com/themove It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! Ketone-IQ - No sugar. No artificial ingredients—just pure ketones in a convenient bottle. Save 30% OFF your subscription order. Go to https://ketone.com/themove to get yours!  

I think no matter what, Simon Yates was just on a different level today. He had an unbelievable day. This is, I mean, we have not seen Simon Yates during these three weeks on this level, which is amazing to think this is day 20. He was five minutes faster than Chris Froome when Chris Froome dropped him. And like the poetic symmetry is unbelievable. Everybody welcome back to the move plus. I'm Spencer Martin.

I'm here with the O'Hanbreniel. We are breaking down stage 20 of the Giro d'Italia, possibly the most exciting action-packed mountain stage of the Giro I've seen in seven years. Since the last time we went over this finish, I don't even know if that's right, but the last notable time when Chris Froome run away, Chris Harper won the stage. But the big story was Simon Yates dropping the GC contenders on the same climb where he lost the Jersey in 2018 rides away wins wins the overall basically sign it's you gotta think it's wrapped up.

He's nearly four minutes ahead of del Toro, four or 43 ahead of Carapaz six 23 ahead of Derek G. Well, there's a lot to talk about, Johan, with the tactics going on behind. But first, let's talk about today's show partner, which is NordVPN. This year has been fantastic due to being able to watch this on Macs.

And if you are liking Macs, you like the coverage, and then the tour is gonna come around, you're gonna think, wait a second, what happened to Max? I can't watch it. And if you're traveling during the summer like I am, I'll be away in June and I'll be trying to watch the tour of Switzerland. I go abroad, I get really stressed. How am I going to watch my races?

I don't have the local service in the country where I am. Well, I use NordVPN to just log on. It's a VPN service. Let's me just mask my browsing where my browsing location. I can say, hey I'm coming from Canada and maybe I want to watch on flow bikes and that's a great they have great Race provided coverage for nearly every cycling race. It's a really good way to Watch cycling abroad when you don't have access to it You can easily switch your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries

It's easy to use if you're intimidated by don't be. It's all you have to do. Download the app, connect with one click or enable auto connect for zero click protection. It's available to 7,500 servers in 118 different countries. You can change your location easily. It has great speed, one of the fastest VPNs out there. And our producer Gabriel actually turned me on to NordVPN. I'm a user because I wanted to watch the Jan Ulrich documentary on Amazon. And Gabriel said, hey, check out NordVPN. And guess what? It worked. And it was a fantastic documentary.

It supports every major platform, Windows, Android, and Mac OS. It also can be used on 10 different devices, which is my favorite thing about it because I can use it on, I can have different races going in the same room. It's fantastic. And if this sounds interesting, you can get NordVPN for no risk. You get that exclusive deal here, nordvpn.com slash the move. It's risk free because it's a 30 day money back guarantee. Try it out. If you like it, thank us. If you don't like it, there's no risk. So again, that's NordVPN.com slash the move for your 30 day money back guarantee. Johan on this, on this stage, I mean, Harper, I feel we should just say up top

amazing ride from Chris Harper. He gets into a breakaway early in the stage. Big move goes. If you watch the stage, you'll know not a lot happened. It was everyone just sitting and waiting for the Fenestra, the climb that started with around 43 K to go. It is 18 and a half kilometers, about 12 miles average, 9%. That's where the race is going to be decided.

EF leads it out into this blows up the peloton like immediately. I was shocked. I don't know. The last time I saw this Richard Carapaz attacks at the base of an hour long climb, Isaac del Toro goes with them. Simon Yates does not, I think my, my stupid stupid brain thinks, oh Simon Yates is in trouble here. No, Simon Yates is thinking smart because he slowly bridges up to the two leaders. Richard Carapaz is attacking, trying to drop Del Toro.

Simon Yates attacking, trying to drop both of them. Eventually Simon Yates goes and Richard Carapaz says, hey, Isaac Del Toro, you're in the race lead. Why don't you close him, close him down? He doesn't. Richard Carapaz attacks, gets close to him, wants Del Toro to finish closing it. They don't finish it. And Yates, this is like a, maybe a few seconds gaps. A few kilometers later, he only has 15 seconds. Derek G gets up, he's pulling them with them. You think, well, this isn't going to go anywhere. But by the top of the climb, Yates is in the virtual race lead. He has a minute 40 on the chasers. He was a minute down to start today. And then

the big component, the genius tactics from Visma meant, while Ben Art was in that early breakaway, he got over the finisher, which is super impressive, ahead of Simon Yates. He's waiting in the Valley to pull him. And it was like, have you, it was like, it looked like Simon Yates was motor pacing. He was flying through this Valley. The app goes out to minutes. Isaac del Toro eventually just sits up in the group behind, waits for his teammates. And then Yates crosses the line behind Chris Harper by 1 57 for third, but ahead of del Toro by over five minutes.

But Johan, what, what are your impressions of this stage? There's many, many things to talk about Spencer. You know, first of all, I think if you look at the, the, the, how the race developed with these 30 riders. And you see that what art is in there. I think it's, um, for both teams, actually for both EF and UAE, it's a huge mistake to have not somebody there. Um, I think they were probably underestimating Simon. We all were underestimating Simon Yates, me in the first place. I think yesterday I said, well, now Del Toro's race is down to a two man race between him

and Carapaz. I actually already discarded Simon Yates because of what I've seen in the, in the, in the last few stages. Well, I was so wrong, uh, because Simon Yates today was just on another level, but I think it starts, uh starts with the beginning, the fact that they see Van Aert is in there. Everybody knows that Van Aert is not gonna win this stage from a breakaway.

This Walt Van Aert is not. He's not into the France shape, but he was in there for a purpose. So UAE for Del Toro and EF for Carapaz. Del Toro, maybe if he's dropped from Carapaz, would have been very handy to have a rider in there who could wait for him. And Carapaz, in case he could drop, Del Toro should have had a rider in there. Obviously, it's easier said than done, right?

As we said, they're all very, very tired. Um, so it's not easy. It's not easy. And, uh, well you have to get a rider in there that can get over the climb. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. But you know, if you have 10 minutes, if they had 10 minutes at the bottom, right. So, uh, not many made it though shockingly. Well, I'm pretty sure listen, if, for example, if, if UAE had, um, what's his name? The Spanish guy, uh, Arietta in there, Arietta was good enough.

He would, he would have made it over the climb. Uh, if, uh, EF would have had the Steinhauser, Steinhauser would have made it over the climb, you know, and those two are big engines for later in the valley. So that's the first thing I have to mention. Secondly, extremely rare to see such a violent approach and run into the huge climb climb of Col de Finestre. Karapaz attacks in the first kilometer. You know, initially I say, wow, you know, that's, that's, that's a big, big, big gamble, right? And I think that's also been his mistake because, or the mistake of, of, of EF, but probably Karapaz.

And you know, Karapaz is a writer who writes with instinct and the way he feels at the moment. So from that moment on, the fact that Del Toro could react, I wouldn't say easily, but he wrote smart, especially in the beginning of this client. He kept his own tempo, never reacted straight away to violent accelerations.

And so he did it three, four, five times every time he came back. And then at some point, because if you look at the first kilometer, Spencer, after one kilometer of the quality finesse, this still with 17 K to go. And you look Simon Yates is 20 seconds down on those two guys. You would say, there's no way this guy can win the Giro. Finally, he wins it with four minutes. You know, so obviously Simon Yates was strong, but there's a lot of things that happened that which contributed to this time difference. Right. And so I think on the Col de Finestre, and we're still talking about,

you know, I'm sorry for Chris Harper, but, you know, we're not going to be able to talk a lot about him. It's a huge victory, but the big action and the big takeaways come from the battle for pink, right? So I think personally that both Carapaz and Del Toro, I'm not going to say made mistakes. Yeah, they did make mistakes, but it was more obviously also you can see that Del Toro was also super focused on Carapaz and he knew that Carapaz would do everything he could to drop him on Colo di Finestre. So I would say they both made mistakes,

but I would say Carapaz made the biggest mistake or if it's deliberately or not, that's another discussion, but which I want to go into detail a bit later. But if you put yourself in Del Toro's shoes, at least for the first part of the Corleone Finestre, he reacts to Carapaz. And Carapaz has constantly been trying to drop him. So it's easy to understand that 21 year old Del Toro, who has never had the experience of racing three weeks, full gas is discovering, you know, how his body reacts. He did a great race today, actually, physically,

because Carapaz couldn't drop him. But it's logical to understand that he won't collaborate too much with Carapaz because every time that Del Toro goes to the front, he knows that after three, 400 meters, Carapaz is going to come from behind and attack him. So I think from that moment on, and then we see, we see Simon Yeats come back, tries it a few times and finally gets clear. And initially, initially they were kind of staying, you know, at a good distance. So once they see that Simon Yates has one minute, this is obviously the result of them going, stopping, going again, watching each other. Derek G was, I mean, the proof was that Derek G was coming back, getting dropped again, coming back. So obviously the speed that both Del Toro and Carapaz were developing was not the best compared to a guy who is going full speed like Simon Yates. And we have to say, the way I saw Simon Yates ride on Gola de Finestre, he rode extremely

smart, started, didn't react straight away, made it progressively back to them. Then, you know, got dropped again a little bit, then he attacked again, didn't get clear. And then finally he went, but he Simon Yates got better and better and better while he was on quality finesse. At the end, he was flying, really flying the proof Spencer. Simon Yates today broke the fastest time on Call of the Finestre ever. I think you calculated somehow that he was developing like 6.1 Watts per kilo for an hour.

That's enough to three weeks. At altitude we should say. At altitude, that's insane. Also did somebody tell Simon Yates, I mean the both, both of the eight brothers, but particularly today, Simon Yeats, did somebody tell that he has a saddle he can sit on sometimes when it's uphill because he's out of the saddle all the time. I cannot understand how these guys can do it. I mean, that's, that's,

that's a skill. That's a quality. It's crazy. I mean, to be able to stand up nonstop. I mean, it's crazy. I like it. We've been taken over. Like Bradley Wiggins, our colleagues started this. It's like, Oh, it's more efficient to sit. Now everyone sits. It's, that's not sickly. He's about, he got to be out of the saddle. But so a couple of questions for you. So Simon, so many of us does torch this climb Just on before we get into anything else, why did Del Toro even pay attention

to Richard Carapaz like think about Derek G climbing this climb? Just he's just riding his own pace because it's an hour long. It's like you can't cheat an hour. You can ride a certain level for an hour. If you go above that, you're anaerobic and you can't do it. Why not just ride a steady pace? Why did he respond to Carapaz in the first place? I think that's more an experience. I don't as has del Toro even ever, ever done a one hour climb in his life. Probably. I mean, he did, he did the cold. Was it all out though, you know, when he won

the, to the Lavenire, I don't know if they didn't do the EZO-R or the EZRON. It's also a super long, super long climb or the model of N I don't remember now. But, but anyways, you know, this is, of course this is a different level. The thing is, one, as I said, Spencer, once they saw that Simon Yates had a minute, then both of them should have been thinking, oh, this guy is not kidding. It's not like he's getting the time because we're fooling around. This guy is on fire. So I think then they probably should have both said, okay, you know what, let's, let's do our best to keep the, and especially, I mean, by then,

and this is, this is what I don't understand, Spencer. Listen, even if they don't know, or sometimes, you know, when you're super on the limit, you go like, you can't think clear, but in the car, they all know that they have this monster of a world when art that front. Well, well, so to go back, why didn't UAE pace it earlier to keep that gap from getting so big? How did they not see that coming? Johan? Yeah. Well, yeah, because in that case,

one art wouldn't have made it over the top. Like have it be six minutes at the base of the client. Yeah. Well, it's yeah. They're also Spencer. They're also down to six riders, of the climb. Yeah. Well, let's see. Yeah. They're also Spencer. They're also down to six riders, right? Uh, you know, um, so, uh, well, yeah. I think mistakes were made, um, in my opinion, um, Del Toro made a few mistakes, although I would give him the benefit of the youth and being, you know,

like close to his limit, being scared that Carapaz is going to attack him anyway. And then I cannot, I cannot think of anything else. I have the impression that once the Toro, once Carapaz saw or found out that he was not going to be able to shake off the Toro, that he didn't care anymore. He actually wrote, he actually wrote against Del Toro. Which I think is, is the right move because if he can't drop Del Toro, what does he care about?

Well, I mean, yeah, but then you mean you still have second and third. Oh, I don't think he cares. Yeah, no, he doesn't. He doesn't. But still, you know, it's, I mean, yeah, but then you mean you still have second and third. Oh, I don't think he cares about. Yeah, no, he doesn't. He doesn't. But still, you know, it's I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm maybe I'm too, you know, thinking too much. But, you know. Listen, they're all they're all champions, they all have their ego, they all have their image, the two Latinos. Carapaz is the Latino now, the Grand Tour winner.

I mean, nobody likes to see a young kid coming and take your popularity away or a part of your popularity away. These things matter for these guys. And so I don't want to be, you know, too negative thinking, but I had the impression that at some point kind of pass just whether it was his decision or it was from the car. I don't know, but it was like, okay, you know what they'll total I'm not winning, but you're not winning either.

You know, that's it. And, uh, and that, you know, obviously listen great, great for Simon Yates, but I think no matter what, uh, Simon Yates was just on a different level today. He had an unbelievable day. This is, I mean, we have not seen Simon Yates during these three weeks on this level, which is amazing to think this is day 20. He was five minutes faster than Chris Froome when Chris Froome dropped him. And like the poetic symmetry is unbelievable. But just if let's say I'm, I drive into a lake and I'm, my car's filling up with water

and there's a bear outside and I say, well, I don't want to get out of this car because I don't want the bear to attack me. You'd probably say, Hey man, just get out of the car and deal with the bear when the then, right? You have to solve problem. Number one, then solve problem. Number two. Yeah.

And once he eight's got a minute 20 in front. Okay. You don't want carapace to attack you, but that's no longer your biggest problem if you're del Toro, like, isn't it always the race leader? Think of Cadella Evans, 2011 stage 18, where Andy Schlex up the road Evans. I'll remember this for the rest of my life. Evan just gets the front and says, this is my responsibility now. And just paces for the rest of that stage and saves his race. I,

yeah, I don't fully understand what the team car not saying that. Or what do you think was happening there? I think it's a bit of everything, but for sure, Del Toro was was close to his limit, but you're right. I mean, but honestly, Spencer, listen, even, even Simon Yates, even if he had 30 seconds on top, they were lost. They were done because nobody had a Van Aert, you know, they would never have gotten the, you know, because let's, let's not forget if Simon Yates even had to get to the top,

not with 140, but with 30 seconds, he's going to catch for not, and he's going to sit for 12 kilometers on the wheel with Van Arte powering, whatever 450 Watts. And they have to relay both of them. And then they still have to go obsessed three air while Simon Yates is sitting on the wheel. So they would never have been able to catch him. Yes, that's a very good point. I mean, I think we kind of forget.

I know I was thinking as this race was unfolding, I would say this is one of the most enjoyable viewing experiences I've ever had, because it was like a slow motion disaster almost to where you're like, well, this is interesting. And I was like, oh, well, Simon needs is up the road. Then it's like, oh no, wow, Ben, it's up the road. Like, oh, like if wow, Ben gets over the climb and it was a race we weren't even allowed to watch because we, there's no camera on van art.

And like, if he gets over the climb, this race is over no matter what the gap is. Because you've kind of forget del Toro. Carp has very strong riders, right? To be on the podium at the zero. Well, you just physically look when, when Simon needs got to out Wout Van Aert, it's like, Oh my God, this guy is twice the size of them. And they're in a mountain valley. There's no TT bikes. Like Wout Van Aert can just go faster than almost anyone in the world in that scenario.

Yeah. And imagine the draft of Simon Yates. I mean, there was no wind, you know, until the last six K or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, here, here, you know, you see again, the enormous value of a rider like what one art, you know, I mean, he's in Visma or jumbo back in the days. They, you know, he made them win already a few grand tours. Uh, you know, he gets over these clients, he's in these valleys, then just rides like crazy, brings them two, three kilometers of the time.

It's the same like he done for Jonas in the tour. Uh, when the first time, the first time you on us one, I guess. And the second time, do you think there's any regret with Carapaz? I mean, I, I do think Del Toro, if just as you break bike, bike racing down to its simplest form, the leader has the most to lose because they have a bird in hand. Like Carapaz's losses were all theoretical. Like if he can't drop, Del Toro can't win the race.

So it's not like really the race is riding away from him. But I still think back to this point, it's with 30, I believe 34 kilometers to go. Yeats is up the road. Carapaz jumps. Del Toro is on his wheel. They get within two seconds of him. I mean, they could almost touch him. Carapaz, it's kind of good bike racing. Like, okay, I'm not going to eat your lunch for you. Like Del Toro, you go close that. Del Toro doesn't. Do you think that's going to haunt Carapaz like for the rest of his career? Like,

oof, maybe I should. No, I mean, listen, the Carapaz doesn't rather, the Carapaz's career is made. He won the Giro. He was second in the Vuelta. He was third in the tour. He was Olympic champion. He's, you know, he's set, you know, it doesn't, he doesn't need to prove anything. So I can understand also that say, okay, you know, I've accomplished this already. I already won this race. So you go, you know, young kids, you try to prove here, but, uh, it's obvious there was negative racing,

you know, I mean, otherwise there was this, this gap would never have gone from one 30 to five minutes in 15 K. That was not normal. There was points on the, on the climb where they were almost freewheeling, you know, like a track stand at some point. So yeah, I mean, it was obviously the fear of the, the fear of Del Toro, the feet of Del Toro that Carapaz was attacking him. But still, you know, I also see your point that del Toro should probably have started to pace, you know, just below his limit. And even if Carapaz attacks, then, you know,

he's not going to take minutes on him. And Carapaz was by himself also, he had nobody in the valley waiting for him. So it would have been a man on mano, you know. But listen, let's not diminish. The performance of Simon Yates was extraordinary. Independently of what happened between Carapaz and del Toro, I think Simon Yates won this Giro thanks to his own great performance today. He did an unbelievable climb. One has to think, did they wait for this? I don't think so. But it's clear also that Simon Yates, and I'm sorry, I repeat every day in this podcast, guys, it's a three week effort.

And this podcast guys, it's a three week effort. Simon Yates has not spent any unnecessary bullets at any time in this race. None. Look, he was almost the invisible man, a great good time trials too, right? So that you marry that like good time trial hiding. He was just like, he was the invisible man for the first two weeks. I will say, since the rest of that, he's lost time in every mountain stage. I, I looked at the odds last night. He was like plus 3,300 within the overall. Yeah. Well, it was definitely the way he was,

the way he was riding Spencer until today, it was definitely not deliberate. You know, I mean, if you lose time, you lose time. It's because you don't have the legs. And today, you know, he had an unbelievable super day, which can happen, you know, and then he, let's not forget, you know, after one kilometer on Col de Finestre, Simon Yates lost 20 seconds with Del Toro and Carapaz. And he was already 130 behind. No, was it 130 behind? Yeah. It was 120 behind. 120 behind. So anyway, if you lose 20 seconds after the kilometer one on that climb, you say, okay, this is not going to happen today. That's what I thought. I was like, well,

here's a guy. It kind of, he grew and grew and grew through that in that climate. I mean, one, one hour climbing and you know, you, if you're in this zone and you know, everybody's hurting, but he was, he was on fire that last half of the quality finesse he was flying. I'm glad we don't do a live stream. Cause that would have been like, ah, this is it. This is the race. It's these two guys. But just to go back to that moment, BF's decision to do that pros and cons

pros, you isolate Del Toro, probably actually setting an emotion, the events that cause Simon Yates to win the race. Because if they don't do that and he stays with McNulty and Micah, do you think he paces the climb better just having them there? Or are they not able to pace fast enough as Simon Yates is riding away from them? Yeah, you know, I think at this point, Micah and McNulty also they're also super super tired. Of course we could see when they came

back Spencer, there was nothing there, you know, they were just turning the pedals. There was nothing anymore for them to chase. Uh, and it's understandable. They've done a lot of work. So, uh, I mean, it was, it was, it was a big, big, big gamble of kind of bus to attack that early. But also you have to think, listen, I mean, who else is going to do it? You know, I mean, um, I don't know who was this last guy who was pulling it was because a Cepeda had to get out of the, out of the line.

I couldn't even get to Cepeda. That's how hard it was. So I don't remember who this other guy was. The, I don't know. Was it Steinhauser? Was it Steinhauser? I don't know. I mean, yeah, it was. So I don't remember who this other guy was. The, I don't, was it Steinhauser? I don't know. I mean, yeah. I mean, who do they have that can even climb at this point? It's Steinhauser and Cepeda. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think it was a Steinhauser. So, you know, he is, he can only go that far, you know? So if Steinhauser is,

I mean, you could see that at some point kind ofapaz must have said, hey, okay, go, because it was a lead out. It was not Steinhauser setting a pace. It was a lead out to prepare an attack. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think personally from Carapaz, that's a mistake also because it's very, very unlikely that he's going to drop Del Toro from kilometer one.

And if you do it from kilometer one and you put him under pressure, then it's also logical. You can't expect him to pull with you once the two guys are... Very good point. It's like Del Tor, they'll total. I think initially he did, he did what he had to do because he was focused on, on kind of pass and, and none of those two writers expected Simon Yates to have such a great day. Uh, and I'm going to say, I'm going to, I'm going to dare to say Spencer, not even Simon Yates himself was expecting him himself to have such a good day.

I think he surprised himself. So from that point of view, I can understand Del Toro just, okay, I'm trying to follow Carapaz. You could clearly see that there was, I think there was some pre-race coaching involved in the fact that Del Toro was probably instructed to say, don't react straight away, get your pace and come back at the temple because it's a one hour climb. We don't want you to crack completely. And so, and he did that actually perfectly

because Carapaz took always a few meters, but Del Toro, it looked initially that he came always back quite comfortably. I mean, I think he might have been on the limit for sure, but maybe just below his limit. Right. So listen, it's easy for us to sit here and say, yeah, you know, they did this wrong and this wrong and this wrong. At the end of the day,

the strongest rider over the three weeks and especially in stage 20 will have won the Giro. And that's Simon Yates. And as you said, Spencer, at the beginning of the show, what a way to come back on this climb where he in 2018, he was in the leaders Jersey. I think he lost 16 minutes at that stage. He was already dropped before the quality finaster, by the way. Um, I think it's funny you say that because I don't have any memory of him being

dropped on that climb. He was dropped before he was dropped before he had an off day. He was, I mean, he was 16 minutes down. He had a complete off day. He did not get dropped on quality finesse. I don't think so. So I mean, yeah, this is like a fairy tale, you know? And also I would have to go back and check his results, but you know, I don't, I don't think Simon Yates had this spectacular results this year

before the Giro. Um, although I do remember in the pre-season, when we did a show on trades and transfers, I said, the transfer of the year is Simon Yates. You did say that. And I have not come back on it because I had absolutely no reason to no arguments to come back on it. But this of course, yeah, justifies that statement. Listen, at the end of the day, he's he's a great writer. The change of atmosphere and

surroundings must environment must, must feel really good for him. And I don't know him. I mean, listen, he might've been sick. He might've been injured, might've gone through. What do we know? Right. But what we saw today is, is, you know, a performance of a rider with extremely high

pedigree. Let's not forget. He already won the Tour of Spain. You know, he was fourth in the tour twice, not once, I think once, you know, he's, he's a super, super classy rider. So he has not stolen this victory. That's for sure. I mean, too, just like the maturity, the mental maturity to he's been taken on the chin for four straight stages. So then, I mean, he must've been locked in to come in and be like, like, that was a tall task. Like I'm going to respond to these guys and then I'm going to drop these guys.

And then I'm going to solo up the hardest climb in this race. I don't think that was the plan, Spencer. I think it just happened. I don't think it was the plan at all. What did you, what do you think he thought would come of those attacks? Just like pull out one of the two. Well, I mean, obviously he attacked because of what he encountered, you know, he encountered the two race favorites playing cat and mouse and you know, the stopping and attacking and it was hurting him also. So, you know,

once he got a gap, he got in his own rhythm and he was, and he, his rhythm, you know, became faster and faster and he was flying to the top. And I mean, there was a point to where Derek G catches the Carapaz del Toro group and they're following him. But the problem is Derek G is going slower than Simon Yates. So it was almost like fake help where Carapaz and del Toro were like lulled into losing time consistently. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what they feel? I mean, we see it on the screen, you know, they where Carapaz and Del Toro were like lulled into losing time consistently. Yeah, yeah. But you know what they feel,

I mean, we see it on the screen, you know, they feel, I mean, they know perfectly. I mean, it was clear that when Derek G came back, both Carapaz and Del Toro, I mean, listen, don't get me wrong, they were still suffering. Even when Derek G is pulling, they're just suffering a little less. Right. So you feel you feel it, but you feel like, okay, I can maintain this. And the thing is also like,

you know, kind of pass, okay, he was trying to drop del Toro, but even if he drops in 10, 15 seconds, he still needs to maintain this to the top. And obviously, he also couldn't maintain that that rhythm. Well, yeah, that you bring me to my next point. Do attacks make any sense on an hour long climb? Because your thresholds are threshold. Like think of the initial attack from Carapaz. It looked amazing. So fun.

Unclear to me, it makes any sense because if they're going a thousand watts at the bottom, you're going to pay for that on the climb. And as you say, he probably physically damaged del Toro to the point where he couldn't help him later. He hurt himself quite a bit. Yeah. It's just, it seems like you should never, in theory, you should never leave your steady pace on an hour long climb. Yeah. And you can't rely on teammates because if your teammates aren't as strong as your rivals, you're just going to lose time as well.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I agree. If it's a one hour climb, if you know, I mean, unless, unless it's, it's, it's not steep enough and drafting becomes, yeah, that's a good point. You know, but it was 9% average. So it was steep all the way. Right. So there's, there's, there's not a lot of places where the speed goes above 20 K an hour and drafting can become a bit of an advantage.

And I guess there's a mental component to once he's out of sight of Del Toro and Carapaz, they, I think they start losing time faster than if he, they could see him the whole time or they were next to each other on help. The topic of help we saw first time in Yates gets to a little truck rider from the break and he's, he's helping him out and we're like, well, that's kind of funny. Is that just because he's bored or he just wants to be part of the race and then Caravaz gets up to Dries de Bont, I believe from Decathlon AG2R and he's helping Caravaz pace on the climb. Yeah, I was

what is going on with that? Well, I mean, it's it. Well, I mean, it was strange to see because, uh, I mean, I don't know who was the track writer. Was it Carlos Verona? No, it was not Carlos Verona. I think it was, uh, uh, Oh, yeah. Jacobo Mosca. Yeah. Who got his head shaved. I mean, listen, you know what, what, what I think in these cases is happening is probably that these guys, it's like their last claim to fame in this Giro, right? Okay, let's just give it one last go.

Initially, I was thinking, you know, maybe there's some agreements between, I mean, I was thinking that these things don't happen anymore now. I mean, I do remember my team with the discovery channel, we won the Giro in 2005 with Paolo Savaldelli, who won his second Giro in 2005. And we didn't have a very strong team. And we had lost some riders already. And the second last stage, Paolo was in pink. The second last stage was this exact stage. It was Col de Finestre and Finnish in Sestriere.

And Paolo was dropped, no teammates. And back then it was different. And we didn't have any discovery teammates, but we found a few teammates on the road, you know, who we talked to and, you know, yeah, these things happen. VIMO accounts after the stage finished. That was not, that didn't exist yet, but there was, you know, there was an agreement made, you know,

a financial agreement made because, you know, if you're out of teammates and you're losing the race and there's somebody else around and he's not going to win the race and he can get a little present, these guys accept it. It was two riders who were individual, their teams were not in the game for the game for any specific position. So we encountered two riders and finally Savoldelli made it to the bottom of Sestrier and he paced, he rode a really good climb by himself and he limited the damage and he won the Giro. I was thinking at this for a moment. I don't think that that's the case though. I think in both of the cases,

in the case of Mosca from Little Trek and the bond from Decathlon, I think it was just their last, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna show myself here this tomorrow. I have nothing to do. Yeah, I think that's the case. There was really made no, no, made no sense, you know, uh, especially if Simon Yates had one art. So, uh,

you know, he, he knew what was waiting in the, in the valley. And it's not because, uh, the bond is pulling for all of a sudden for, uh, for kind of past that he's going to drop del Toro, right? Serve nothing in both cases. The Mitzvah just thrown out some nice work. I mean, too, we're like reading a lot into these, any, all these things on the climb just like to give you perspective. So Derek G average 408 Watts for the one Oh one. So over an hour for the climb heart rate, one 70 average for an hour and one

minute. So go to, go to heart rate, 170 and tell me how clear you're thinking. You know, I can not even reach that anymore. Spencer. I mean, I think it does come down with age. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Before you go out, don't think, don't think, except it as a fact, it goes, it comes down and you can't, no, I can, I cannot even, I mean, if I'm 160, I'm on the limit. That's my max. I don't know if I need to go hold 170 for an hour anymore. But I mean, you're not even, you're not able to think straight. So just bad decisions get

made. Like when Del Toro went over the top, the thing that surprised me the most, they get over the top and he just sits up at a certain point and is asking Carapace to come through. Do you think it just, he knew at that point since Yates had Van Aert that it was over? Yeah, by then I think so. I mean, if you listen, even if Yates has a minute on the top, then you know, it's game over because when art is going to pull

like crazy and the S is going to sit on the wheel while they're total and kind of pass need to take pulse. It was over for both of them. Yeah. It's stunning. It's stunning actually to think about that like it unraveled so fast. I mean, do you think this is, it's almost, it's interesting cause it's a story of obsession similar to how Richard Carapaz won the race in 2019 or Nibali and Roglic.

Was this like, did you want to see my trophy case conversation where Nibali was like crap talking to Roglic, Carapaz rides away, wins the race. Did UAE and Carapaz get too fixated on each other? And you know, think about like the satellite, like not having satellite riders, letting Wout get up the road. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, not having satellite riders, that's, that's another, that's another matter. Um, you know, I personally think UAE should have had one and they had,

they had the riders to do that. Is Baronkini still in the race? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, that is some. Yeah. I mean, both Baronkini and, and Arietta, you know, they're two strong riders. And I think, I mean, in this scenario with 10 minutes,

they would have made it both over the climb, you know, one of both should have been there, especially when there's 30 riders. Um, so I mean, I think they were too fixated on EF and and kind of pass and didn't really take Simon Yates seriously enough before today's stage. Well, even if you notice when Simon somebody needs attacked, I think his first one care, Pat, no Del Toro goes to Carapaz's wheel and makes care pass close it. But when Carapaz was attacking Del Toro was responding right away. Yeah.

Yeah. Which tells you who he was worried about, but, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Clearly they made the long, I think they underestimated Simon Yates and, and, and, and I think that nobody expected in, I repeat, not even Simon himself to put out such a performance, uh, like today.

Uh, he was, I think once he got that minute, he was like on another level. He was like in the zone and he was just flying to the top. It was crazy. Well, he got to the gravel and you'd think, you know, Derek G should be better on the gravel. Probably Del Toro should be better on the gravel. And it didn't seem to slow him down at all. Well, I don't think that has much to do with gravel riding.

It's pure, it's uphill, it's pure power. It's how much watts you can put out. He's so light though. It almost looks like you could like almost see it like knocking them around. Like, yeah, but uphill. And you would think though, you would think though, for example, I mean that the gravel would not be in the advantage of a rider like

Adam Yates who stands up all the time, you know, because gravel, you should sit down, right? Because your wheel has more traction. And if you stand up, especially in corners that are a bit steeper, you could, you know, your wheels could skip because you don't have that much grip. Didn't seem to matter for Simon today. He was flying.

Well, anything else before we go? I would say just Chapota Visma, my Lord. That was quite the coup on the final day. Yeah. I mean, you know, not a stage win today, but you know, they have two stages already. I mean, then this turnaround is just amazing, you know, and listen, I think Visma also needs this, you know, I mean, they, I'm not gonna say that they reestablish

themselves as the dominating team in grand tours, at least not for the moment, We'll see, you know, once Jonas gets back and when we have said cause and you know, Walt in the best shape ever. It's a good, good general repetition for the tour, especially for them are all. Well, it reminds me again, Apollo 13, there's a scene, you know, the astronauts are stuck in space. They can't figure out how to get them down. And they put scientists in a room with just the things the astronauts have in the pod.

And they're like, okay, figure out how to fix the past, fix the spaceship with this stuff and you're not going to come out of the room until you figure it out. It's like, so here's a super team against us. We have Simon Yates and these guys figure out how to win a grand tour against them and they do it like it's super impressive. And Simon Yates, I thought he would be tour support when he came on board. You know, when you did that trades and transfer show, I thought, yeah, like he's going to be important for the tour, but they win a grand tour with them. You know, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, let's go to predict stage

21. But before we do that, let's talk about our partner for today's show, Ketone IQ. And the reason we're talking about Ketone IQ is because they are partnered with the Team Visma Lisa Bike team to help with their recovery and high altitude adaptation. They have found that the Ketone IQ product has improved blood flow, increased muscle

oxygen, oxidization. I can't believe they put that word in there to trip me up. Increased EPO for better endurance and stamina. And clearly it works today. I mean, that was, if there's never been a better ad for ketone IQ than today, because I did notice throughout this race, some of these riders from Visma taking a little shot that I thought looked familiar after each stage. And as you said, Johan, Simon Yates, not blowing our socks off early in this Giro,

but he just recovered better than everybody else. Perhaps it was due to the ketone IQ and just my own endorsement. I'm a man who likes my coffee, but ketone IQ has just come out with ketone IQ plus caffeine, has five grams of ketones and a hundred milligrams of caffeine from green tea. And it's a two-stage energy shot with caffeine to keep you going and ketones for longer sustained mental energy. Definitely better than getting that burnt out coffee feeling at the end of the day. And if you want to try ketone IQ, there's no sugar, no artificial ingredients, just pure ketones

in a convenient bottle. You can save 30% off your subscription order if you go to ketone.com slash the move to get yours. That's easy, ketone.com slash the move to get that discount. So Johan, stage 21, a little bit of a come down here because we're in Rome. I assume we're flying to Rome tonight, the whole Peloton. And we're doing the,

I think it's the same circuit we've done in Rome for the last two or three years. I suspect bunch sprint. I'm now wondering if it's, I don't think it's not going to be raining. It's going to be hot and sunny, which is going to be slightly unusual for this Giro d'Italia. But the favorites will be Olaf Coy at plus 150, Kaden Groves plus 250, Mads Pedersen plus 700, Casper van Uden plus 1000, Matteo Maschetti plus 2500, Sam Bennett plus 2500, Michael Zellard plus 3300, Mateusz Wodzak plus 3300. Probably going to be a bunch sprint.

Clearly, the market thinks that. Who do you think is going to win this, Johan? Yeah, I think it's going to be a bunch sprint too. I think everybody's tired Spencer. Very difficult to stay away. Especially with, you know, some teams still in the race who stayed here with their sprinter for this stage. So I'm going to go Kaden Groves. So I'm going to go Caden Groves. You know, he's a strong rider, tends to suffer less than other sprinters through the mountains. You know, I'm not going to say that he's getting easy over the mountains, but plus he still has a pretty complete team at his service.

So Caden Groves for the win. What is he? Is he plus? Plus 250. Plus 250. Plus 250. So plus 250. Yeah. Pretty good price. I mean, I think we said this last time when neither of these guys won,

but they're the two fastest sprinters in this race. I have to imagine this one's a sprint stage. So I'm going to Olaf Koi plus 150. I mean, I don't think the circuit is, I mean, we've seen some tries, but I just don't see like a Vodsec solo win. I think that would be too hard at this point in the race. Plus, you know, I think it's going to be another opportunity

for Walt Van Aert to, you know, show his unbelievable form. It's crazy how Van Aert to show his unbelievable form. It's crazy how Van Aert has improved physically through this Giro, right? Started, he had a sickness the week before, was suffering, there were certain people doubting, should he abandon? And here he is, he's not, I mean, he won a stage and the days that he's on great form and winning,

he's still the star of the stage. And I think that tomorrow we can expect another impressive lead out from Weald von Aert for Olaf Coy. Yeah, think about that. Yeah, like in Naples, he didn't even know where the finish line was. And then by the end, he went to stage, the most iconic stage of the race, probably just from like a visual perspective, and then contributes in a large part to them winning the overall seat. And then that's a down grand tour for well, then art, that's not even a good answer for him. Yeah. And that shows you the engine he has, you know, I mean,

like if you see von art pulling in that Valley Spencer today, you know, and he's just this engine and it's like, you know, it's like, yeah. And then you see the guys who come from the breakaway who are there trying to hold on for dear life. They're moving, they're all over the bike and Wout is just sitting still and just hammering. Yeah, hats off to Wout Van Aert for what he did in this Giro,

the way he kept fighting, first of all, for his form. And then finally to contribute to the overall win. He may be, you know, what a way it would be actually for Visma to finish off this Giro with a victory of Olaf Koi would be amazing. I'm sure they would like that. And I mean, Bob and I are from a results perspective. You could not say best rider in the world right now. You know, like you just don't be hard to say is better than Tadej Pogacar,

Matthew Interpol, but there's not many riders. I don't think I could think of another rider that you could imagine doing what he did today. And also you know what, you know what he is Spencer, you know what one art is of all the big engines, like the, like the super riders champions who win big races now and then he is by far without discussion, the best teammate. Yeah.

Yes. I agree. Not even a discussion. Yeah. It's hard to imagine anyone at that level of talent. I mean, he was full in or team like that was not, he was not because he sat up at the beginning of the climb. You know, he didn't want to like go too deep and then not be able to help later. Like he was never even going to go for that stage win.

Yeah. He just, from the moment he hit the climb, he was thinking, I have to get over this for Simon Yates. Super impressive. Well, Johan, anything else about, so it'll be our last show and then you'll be back with some group, maybe me, maybe someone else on Monday to recap the whole thing. For the recap of the three weeks of the Giro. Well, thanks for logging on. I'll be back in Madrid. I'll be back in Madrid, hopefully.

Still in Andalusia now for my son's's races but on Monday I'll be back home. Well best of luck tomorrow with the races and hopefully one of our guys finally wins. For one. Okay. Be nice. Okay thanks. All right bye.