THEMOVE - Giro d'Italia Week 1 Breakdown | THEMOVE

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Johan Bruyneel, George Hincapie, and Spencer Martin break down Sunday's stage of the Giro d'Italia, which saw Wout van Aert take an emotional victory over UAE's Isaac del Toro, who rode into the race lead after getting with an elite group after a mid-stage crash on the white gravel roads of Tuscany. They discuss how this win, along with Primož Roglič's time loss, frames the GC battle heading into the second week, and how they will expect UAE to manage having the Maglia Rosa and a total of four riders in the top ten. Before they take off, they predict who will win Stage 10's critical time trial and how the GC picture will look afterward. OneSkin - OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code THEMOVE at https://oneskin.co.   Maui Nui - Maui Nui offers the only 100% Wild-Harvested meat that's completely stress-free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high-quality protein.   Maui Nui Venison is offering THEMOVE listeners a limited collection of our favorite cuts and products. Head to https://mauinuivenison.com/themove to secure your access now.    AG1 Next Gen - Now clinically-backed with an advanced formula - this is the perfect time to try AG1 if you haven't yet. If you use our link, you'll get a FREE bottle of AG D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, AND 5 of the upgraded AG1 travel packs with your first order. So make sure to check out https://drinkag1com/themove to get started.   Ketone-IQ - No sugar. No artificial ingredients—just pure ketones in a convenient bottle. Save 30% OFF your subscription order. Go to https://ketone.com/themove to get yours!   Saily - Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily data plans! Use code THEMOVE at checkout. Download the Saily app or go to https://saily.com/themove .   Helix Sleep - Go to https://helixsleep.com/themove for 27% off Sitewide PLUS Free Bedding Bundle (Sheet Set and Mattress Protector) with any Luxe or Elite Mattress.    

too much, too many talented riders actually on the team. You know, they're they're they're great at scouting talent. We have to we have to acknowledge that, you know, they they find the young riders who become really big riders. But I have the impression that any race where Pogacar is not present. It's a tactical chaos. Everybody, welcome back to the move. I am Spencer Martin.

I'm here with Johann Brunel and George Hincappi. We are recapping, lightly recapping the first week of the Giro Italia and then taking stock of where the GC is after yesterday's thrilling stage 9, won by Wout Benard and we'll talk. I'll get their opinions on where this race is going from there. If anyone missed it, this is probably the most exciting stage of theard and we'll talk, I'll get their opinions on where this race is going from there. If anyone missed it, this is probably the most exciting stage of the race that we'll get. I recommend going back and rewatching the race broke up on the gravel sections

in Tuscany. It finished same finish as Strada Bianchi and Siena. Wout Benard was at the front going into the gravel sections, ended up paying off because there was a crash. He ended up in a group with Egan Bernal and Ineos teammates and Izik del Toro. So we got the sit on until the final few hundred meters. When he sprinted around, del Toro got a hugely emotional win, but you could argue the real action was further behind where del Toro wrote himself into the race lead, probably somewhat unexpected

by quite a large margin over a minute. His teammate Juan Uso was in the chase group after crashing briefly, Primoz Roglic crashed and then flatted. So he was in a third chase group. By the time we got to the finish, Primoz Roglic had dropped from the race lead on stage seven, all the way down to 10th. Isaac del Toro is leading Juanauso's second 113, Antonio Tiberi 130, Richard Carapaz 140,

Giulio Ciccone 141 back, Simon Yates 6142 back and Primas Roglic 10 to 225 back. We will talk about what this means. Everybody this episode of the move is brought to you by one skin, dry skin and deep wrinkles. They're all visible signs of aging. And let's be honest, none of us are immune, especially cyclists.

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drinkag1.com slash the move to get started. That's drink AG one.com slash the move to get started. That's drink AG one.com slash the move to get started. All right, back to the show. But George and Johan, what were your like big takeaways from yesterday's stage? Were you excited watching it? Johan, I know you were, you're probably still grieving about the inclusion of gravel into this race, but George, George, what were your takeaways from the stage? I mean, I meant, I texted all the whole group yesterday, how exciting I thought the stage was. And I know there's a big argument on whether or not we should be including gravel and grand tour races. But for me, you know,

cycling is all about promoting brands, brands, cycling brands, uh, cycling groupos, tires, they're always a vibe or real evolving. Equipment is always evolving. They want to sell more of their equipment. And what do you need to do to make that happen is test the equipment on the most challenging roads you can test them on. So all these guys, I mean, that's, we've all ridden these gravel roads in Tuscany. They're super slick, super steep, very unpredictable. You never know, you can be taking a left turn and all of a sudden you're hitting like bumps that feel like speed bumps, so to speak, on gravel. It's just as technical as it gets. And for me, I'm a fan of it. It requires all kinds of different skills in cycling and the best of the best equipment.

So I think on a personal level, makes it more exciting and also shows who's got the best equipment. Yeah, I agree with everything you say, George. It's nice. It's great for the fans. It's great for the watch it on TV. And if you want cycling, professional cycling to be a show and a circus, then I agree that these kind of stages have their place. If you want to test the equipment and promote the equipment, then you have Strade Bianche, you have Paris-Roubaix, you have other special races dedicated to those kinds of surfaces. My point, and I said it on social media this morning, and I expected to get killed over it and I did get killed over it. But my point is different. I can see the value of a stage like this and it is super

exciting. As a fan, I like to watch it. If I put myself in the place of team manager, DS, and cyclist, professional cyclist and staff member of teams and sponsor of a team that invests a lot of money in Grand Tour winners, having a leader for the GC try to win the Giro or the Tour or the Vuelta or whatever, then the perspective changes. Because, you know, we are talking about professional road cycling, right? As far as I know, that's on roads in 2025. Stade Bianche is a great race, specifically. Everybody who goes there knows they're going to ride on gravel. Paris-Roubaix is a great race, but everybody who knows there, they're going to ride on

cobbles. That's for specialists. My point is that yesterday, for example, we saw one of the big favorites potentially losing the Giro. Not lost yet, but it's part of it. You know, he can crash on the downhill, you can get caught in the crosswinds, but I think it just enhances the possibilities of crashes and mechanicals and there's nothing you can do as a team or as a writer.

Roglic got called out by, I don't remember who it was. It was a guy from ENAOS who crashed first, I think. Then, you know, the punctures, it can happen to anybody. I agree. And I know that my point of view is not shared by many, but, and again, you know, I can see the value. It's super entertaining. We saw a great race and it might actually be

the deciding stage of the Giro in hindsight. So yeah, I mean, I have my opinion on it, but I can also understand your point of view. Let me be a little bit of a devil's advocate for a second. You said you were taking the perspective of a fan, a media person now, the sponsors perspective. Let's take the perspective of Johan Brunel, director, sportive of Lance Armstrong with Ekemaat, Padranos, myself,

backing him for a race like yesterday's Stradivianca or 2004 Peru Bay sections. What's your opinion on that? What was your outlook on that? I think you were a bit more confident in the outcome. No, I actually had the conversation with Lance about it yesterday because Lance thinks exactly the same like you. I was with him in Germany at the Jan Ulrich Cycling Festival and we had a talk in the car about it. Lance thinks the same as you. Yeah, we wouldn't have care. We would be better for you.

But I see it differently because it was better for us. It turned out to be better, but it could have been a nightmare because you are adding uncontrollable factors. You know, we had a strong team. I remember when 2004, the, the, the, the cobbles were in was it 2004? Yeah, I guess so. 2004. You know, you, you and Eki and Pavel, you came in first, you know, it was you and Eki and Lance, the first three on the cobble sections. Uh, that's not, doesn't mean yet that it's, it's safe. You know, that's going to be a crash, it can be a puncture. The cars can never get there. Especially, it's not the

same like a normal road race. So although I knew it was potentially better for us when everything went okay, I was still not a fan because you never know what's going to happen. And it's just adding the risk factor to the race. So yeah, I see it differently. I was damn excited for those stages because it's funny, like we can really showcase our skills and of course it's nerve wracking and of course anything can happen like you said you on, but I know that having guys like the guys that we have and the team that you built around Lance, um, we couldn't have been more confident for days like that.

Didn't you guys like go on an underwater road one time and everyone crashed? Except for you. You see massage Dugua, for example. That's another thing. That's another one. I mean, we, we turned out to be very beneficial. But if I look at it from a neutral point of view, I think a road like that has no place in a ground tour because, and that was even, it was a lot worse. I mean, that was asking

for problems because you knew that every few hours it was flooded. It was going to be slippery. Uh, I mean, we basically won the first tour there already. Right. So, but, but, uh, from a neutral point of view, I think it's, it's madness. It's madness, but it's also, there's, there's, there's luck involved, but there's also a ton of skill, as you know, everybody wants to be in front there and only hand pull. Yeah, George. And I agree, you know, that a Grand Tour winner should be a complete rider who controls all the aspects of cycling, including those kinds of sections. But anyways, you know, it was a super nice race. Yesterday, it was spectacular.

Great winner. You know, the whole GC got turned up upside down a bit. And that's at the end what people are going to remember. Right. But I, for example, George, I gave a little suggestion on social media. I said, why don't we put out a poll amongst the professional cyclists of today's peloton who are going for results in a Grand Tour and ask their opinion if they're in favor or against this kind of stage. And I said, I think I can confidently say that 75% would be against it if they can choose. What do you think?

Yeah, I would say a lot of the guys these days would probably be against it. But at the same time, I mean, guys like, I mean, we're going to talk about the stage, but guys like Bernal and, um, Wild Van Ar with CycleCross and mountain bike backgrounds. I mean, I know for me, I never raced mountain bike, didn't do much cycle cross, but I knew if it was going to be a wet sort of muddy, dirty carnage type of race, it would be to my benefit because of all the mountain biking I did in the winter's training. And it's just a different type of skill. So I think a lot of these guys going, going, you know what? A lot can go wrong, but this is going to benefit me in the long run because I'm a much better bike handler.

Like at the Tom Pickocks, for example, then, then 90% of the Peloton. So yeah, but there you, there you have it. Tom Pickock, for example, arguably the best bike handler in the Peloton lost out yesterday because of a crash and a mechanical. So anyways, I think if we would ask a poll amongst the fans, 100% would say I want this. And ultimately that's what keeps the cycling going. Without fans, there's no sport. So I can, I can see, I can see all different opinions. I'd say it's almost existential, Johan. And I know the writers don't want to do this.

I hate to break it to them that they don't really have a voice. Right. When, when, when is cycling never done with the writers want them want to do. And like, if they don't have stages like this, people won't pay attention. Like if it's just, you know, if it's just, I think so, man, it's so hard to get people's attention nowadays. Like you look at a lot of these sports are losing attention. It's like no one wants to sit and watch one of these, you know, think of the Jean-Marie LeBlanc Tour de France is where they'd have like eight sprint stages in a row. You get to the first mountain stages at stage 14, like that couldn't survive in today's landscape.

So I think the Giro has to do to keep, to keep the race interesting. And it was, I mean, it was pretty fascinating that Adam Yates said they didn't really know what was going on. So you had UAE chasing Del Toro, Del Toro riding away from UAE and then Pitcock and Roglic chasing the UAE group. And then you had Vacek up at the front, riding away from his own teammate, Chikone, who he probably should have been helping.

Like that chaos, I think it keeps the sport from becoming like, you know, too PlayStation, as you would say, or like too robotic, because it just throws these variables in and it's like, all right guys, figure this out on the fly. And you have no idea what the heck is going on so in that respect it is good on the other hand this GC does this GC happen without the variables probably not so I am somewhat sympathetic to your point there where it's like well Roglic probably

doesn't lose all that time without the gravel del Toro doesn't gain it all and that's somewhat unfortunate but it's funny you look at that time without the gravel. Del Toro doesn't gain it all. And that's somewhat unfortunate, but it's funny. You look at that meat of the top 10, it's not actually that much. They're not that much happened actually, except Del Toro gaining, Roglic losing, Stor crashing, which is unfortunate for him. But we are kind of like at an interesting spot with this clustering of the top 10. I think so. I mean, you have Del Toro with 113 and then from second place till 10th place, the two big favorites, Ayuso and Roglic, are in second and 10th.

There's one minute 12 in between them. So you could say, okay, considerable, but definitely not decisive. What we will have to see, Primoz now has to act. He needs to be aggressive. And so it's, it makes the race interesting. You know, we see, we see two riders, two Latin American riders in three, but not taking Del Toro into account.

We see Carapaz and Bernal who are very skilled at these kinds of parcours who are now in fourth and seventh. So they're in a good place and we all know how aggressive they can be. So if you look at the GC right now, the top 10, it's very promising. And both those guys that you just mentioned, they're Grand Tour winners, have won the Giro and have that experience. Once you get past that second week and you hit those monster climbs that we all know of in Giro, where typically, you know, some of these young guys may have a bad day and these guys will probably just keep getting

better and better. I mean, it's amazing to see Bernal how far he's come. I rode with him in November for his grand fundo and seeing what Brandon Rivera did for him yesterday. They're essentially best friends. They live right next door to each other. But we know they trained together all winter. Imagine like leading one of the most iconic stages of the Giro, you know, as bodies like

that. I thought that was pretty amazing. Obviously it didn't work out the way they wanted. They probably could kind of get more help from Del Toro and Ben Art, but tactically it didn't make much sense. Uh, so they were in an important and unfortunate position in that respect. But still, I mean, they rode an incredible race. The whole team is riding really well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's nice to see but now it's not the first time it is in the two other

hard stages. He was already up there very close. Yeah. And I think he's going to do a great Giro. I think he's definitely a serious, serious candidate for the podium. And now after what I saw yesterday, man, I wouldn't even, I mean, it would be amazing. I wouldn't even exclude him winning the Giro. I agree. I mean, he's, he's got that experience. He's getting the confidence back. He's getting to the highest level. He's matching the numbers of the guys like Primoz Roglic, Ayuso's. I mean, he hasn't done that in a long time. And he actually said-

Especially also George, I think, I think he's getting his confidence back. You can see, you know, like the, the, the day, the day he got third, uh, when Ayuso won, I would say, I would say, okay, wow, great result. You know, he has to be happy. He's back. He was pissed. Yeah. He didn't win. Well, and his team had confidence in him. They were working for him. I mean, he went with like six, 700 meters to go. Yeah. I mean, we're starting to see the old Bernal come back creeping in. One thing we haven't mentioned, I don't know if you're saving it at the end, but have you seen the, is this correct that Wow got the KOM yesterday? you're saving at the end, but have you seen the, is this correct that while God the KOM yesterday?

No, he didn't. Uh, he was, he was three seconds slower than Greg Van Avermaet. Um, my thing, my thing says he's got 119. Greg Van Avermaet was, is in fourth at 124 of Annapol's and second at 122. Oh, wow. Okay. So we should say though, I mean, that's obviously super impressive. This is much shorter than the, than the race, the shorter and, but I think the

most impressive part was that Del Toro pulled for 20 K straight and essentially did all the work. I mean, then I would just pass them right at the very end. So essentially we need to give that to Del Toro. Yeah. Which he's obviously not even on Strava. Cause he's not on this list. George, it shows you that the level just keeps going up.

It's insane. I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy how they are improving. Yeah. It's shorter, but it's nine days into a grand tour. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

We're tired. So here's my question for you guys. I do think my hot take is this race will be won by someone who's won a Grand Tour before, probably won the Giro d'Italia before. That's not really a hot take because most grand tours are won by riders who have already won a grand tour. Egan Bernal looks great. Are we worried that he got absolutely smoked by Isaac del Toro?

Like, can this guy hold on? Like, what are we dealing with here? I think like a you know, they, they did, they had to do a lot of work. You know, what was it? 60 to 30 K to go. Del Toro was just sitting on the wheel. Um, it was just a matter of circumstances, tactically how that played out, but he still kind of finished, he didn't even lose that much time to that second group.

Once he got caught, it looked like he was dead man walking, but it seemed to me he recovered a bit. Yeah. I don't think all is lost by any means. But I do think, however, Spencer, I do think that Del Toro is we need we need to take him into account. I mean, we don't know how long he's going to last. He may last three weeks. You know, we don't know how long he's going to last. He may last three weeks. Um, you know, it, it, it sometimes happens. You have, I mean, this super office is a super talent, right? He won the tour, the Laveneer against the Matthew Riccatello, uh, in the mountains.

Uh, so he was a professional at the time, by the way, Riccatello was, and Del Toro was not. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, he's shown straight away in his first year, you know, he was the real deal, uh, gets into the Giro now without pressure, uh, and has unbelievable legs. I mean, the guy he's on fire. You know, George, he would say he has no chain. He has no chain. This guy is like it's smooth pedaling. He's just flying. If you see how he put Walt van Aert on the limit on that last stretch in Siena after having...

After pulling the whole time. It's crazy. Walt was on the verge of getting dropped. Yeah, he was. And a friend of one of my really good friends that races for a Mexican guy from Tijuana that trains with Dr. in the winter. And he says he does rides a couple of days a week from like four hour rides, 380 to 400 watts on rolling roads the whole time. Okay. On a climb, not a huge deal, but like up and down where you're basically going 50K an hour

for four hours. And the guy just hangs on his wheel for those four hours. But I mean, think about that. That is incredibly impressive numbers. Yeah, I would see the way he was pulling yesterday. Yeah, I would not, I would not, I would not be confident if I'm any of those other favorites. The way Del Toro is riding now. And, you know, once a guy like that with that kind of talent gets in the lead, man, take it away from him. You know, it's not that easy. It's not that easy. Plus tomorrow's his longest time trial of his life.

Already. Okay. That's what he said. He's never done a time trial that distance. Yeah, but it's actually not many this long in pro cycling anymore, which is crazy to say, because it's 29 kilometers long. Yeah. But he'll be good. He'll be, he's, he's not a bad time trialist. He's very good. Yeah. Um, so he'll be good. He's aerodynamic. I mean, he's, he's, he's running really narrow handlebars also, uh, George. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the advantage that Del Toro has over, for example, Ayuso and over even Carapaz and Roglic is that there's no, there's no expectations, you know, nobody expects him to win the Giro.

He will expect, he's, he's, I think he, I read somewhere that he's now going to see, you know, how far he can get and if he can hang on, he he, he will try to hang onto the Jersey till Rome. He said that. So, Hey, I would say to the drivers, get ready. When they were, they wouldn't let them work at first. So they were clearly just thinking about IU. So, yeah. What do you think, what do you think George about UAE tactics? I mean, I have my I have my. Just before you guys start on that, if you didn't see the stage, there was a crash.

Del Toro probably doesn't know what happens. Just starts attacking right away. So he kicked off that winning move. Del Toro was the one who started the winning move is polling initially. And then the car must have told him to stop. So just to set that up. But I would be curious to get your take on that. George, I'll add something else to it.

I don't know if you saw that. I mean, I have a really, really hard time to believe. Del Toro said that he started pulling because he looked back and he saw a white jersey, thought it was a you. So and then after a while, he figured out it was Bernal. There's no way. There is no, I don't know. I mean, it was Ayuso. And then after a while he figured out it was Bernal. There's no way. There's no way. I don't know. I mean, it was quite dusty. It was quite dusty. And yeah, but the radio gets on really quick. But even before that happened, I mean,

the poll that Mads Peterson took for like five kilometers and completely decimated the Peloton. These legal track is so far, I think overall the best team in the Giro. What they've done has been incredible. Yeah. Yeah. But on UAE, George, the way, so we have, we have Del Toro upfront with initially three Ineos riders, right? Because Arnsmann was there too. He flatted. And Walt Pedersen took his pole. There was six any of us writers in that group in one Red Bull and it was Roglic. So those guys were so strong. Yeah. So, but then we have the situation Roglic is behind with pitcock, uh, UAE with Ayuso is in group two. And we have the,

initially six then, then, then five, then four writers. And, and they were writing riders. They were riding everywhere. They were riding in the front, they were riding in the back. What's your opinion about those tactics? I mean, I think those, obviously they weren't quite sure what to do because having Bernal up there with a strong teammate, um, essentially riding away from your, your leader, even though you have del Toro there. Um, I don't know, that's a tough one. Um, yeah.

And clearly they didn't have the confidence in El Toro, del Toro that they have in IU. So, but maybe they do now. Yeah. I mean, after, after yesterday's stage, I think they should have, uh, you know, uh, if you look at, I mean, after yesterday's stage, I think they should have, you know, if you look at, I mean, my impression with UAE and not just in this race, you know, they have the strongest team. We know that in this Giro, in basically all, in all the races, the whole season there, you know, they have a huge budget. They have too much, too many talented riders actually on the team. You know, they're, they're, they're great at scouting talent. We have to, we have to acknowledge that, you know, they find the young riders who become really big riders. But I have the impression that any race where Pogacar is not present, it's a tactical chaos.

And it turns out that often they get away with the win because they have really strong riders. But tactically, like yesterday, for example, and I agree, maybe they say, okay, we can't have the complete confidence in Del Toro, but he's there. He can sit on the wheel of Bernal. And in the back, they have Bahrain and Little Freck and EF with Carapaz all writers that are, you know, you know, that are also podium candidates who will do the work, you know? Um, so it's, it looks to me like they're focusing exclusively on Roglic, but they're forgetting

about these other guys. I mean, Carapaz is there, you know, do you remember how Carapaz won the zero, Johan, because somebody was focused on Primos Roglic. Yeah. And I forgot about Richard Carapace. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, you know, I, I, I don't know. I mean, I, this, I'm just gonna, I mean, this, and this is just my opinion from a distance. I have absolutely no, no information about this, but it looks to me like UAE, uh, And this is just my opinion from a distance. I have absolutely no information about this, but

it looks to me like UAE, obviously Pogacar is the undisputed leader, you know, where any race he is at and he's in shape. The whole team is at his service and they should be because he usually wins. But then you have this parallel group of riders, huge talents. And I think, you know, it's like, okay, any race where Taddei is not, you guys have your opportunity. The problem is that if you send too many of those riders with ambitions to the same race, you have again the same problem. And I don't know if those are certain promises that are being made. I would guess, for example, that Ayuso is obviously a big champion.

He's one of the favorites of this race. He must have been promised, okay, you're the leader in the Giro. The team is with you. Now he gets in the turtles there and somebody will machine will have said to the turtle, you know what, you get your chances. And you kind of have to keep these guys motivated also, right? So I don't know.

I mean, yesterday it looked weird because, and looked like there was no clear communication within the team. And that's also sometimes happening, especially in those kinds of stages where you have this is like same situation like party to bed. And, you know, the cars are far behind. You can't see, you can't communicate properly. And then it's it's a mess.

Yeah, but even, you know, the same these guys, what was it, Adam Yates and Ayuso were behind. You still want to have somebody up there, especially a guy like Del Toro that has a good chance of becoming the winner of the Juro. So even though there was probably a lot going on, probably tough to make the decisions right there at the moment. But I think they couldn't have had a better result. Ayuso didn't lose that much time. He didn't lose any time to,

to Primos is probably, you know, the gain time on Primos. He gained time on Primos. So all in all, it was a huge day for them. Um, it was definitely a win for them. Yeah. Well, yeah, by mistake or not, Del Toro did the right thing cause he didn't pull and then he attacked and he, he had to drop Bernal and he did. And then he got Bernal out of that group. So he's not taking time on you. So we are, and I, guys, I was just as excited. I was thinking, Oh my, wow, this is crazy.

We're going to have del Toro win the zero. That's what I thought after the stage. Do you know how many 21 year olds have won grand tours in the last 100 years? How many? Two. And one of them is Tadej Pogacar, who's probably the best of all time. So if you're a director, you can't. Who's the other one? Giuseppe Cironi. We talked about him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that guy, let's get, is he alive? Let's get him on the show. Yeah. And just so you can, as a director, you can't just pencil in the wind, you know,

because there are a lot of questions about, and this is probably one of the hardest third weeks of a grand tour you could ever have. So it gets slightly complicated. Now let me, let me ask you this question. How did they, UAE is four riders in the top nine. That's too many, frankly. And how did they handle, they're going to have the Jersey at least until stage 16, at least, because there's no other del Toro is not losing it in the time trial.

So he's going to have that Jersey into the third week. Primoz Roglic attacks. Del Toro goes with them. I used to who had stitches after the stage, by the way, looked hurt is dropped. What do they do? Like have they lost a teammate essentially and gained a rival from the stage yesterday? No. Yeah. I don't know either. But then I use it as one less rider to help him because that rider is now racing

for his own chances. Right? Well, it's very simple Spencer. Now. Okay. We'll see what the situation is after the time trial. It may be shuffled a bit or, you know, there may be less time gaps, but still the Toro is going to be in the lead trial, it may be shuffled a bit or, you know, there may be less time gaps, but still Del Toro is going to be in the lead and, and Primos is going to be at least, let's say at least one and a half, maybe two minutes behind Del Toro. Right. Um, so the Primos needs to attack. And Del Toro is in the lead. Ayuso doesn't have to attack, but he has to follow Primos. Well, let's not forget, Johan, you would do this. If you had a guy like Adam Yates, you

have Brandon McNulty, you have, I mean, you almost don't even need Ayuso to live last kilometer, two kilometers of these big climbs. So what do you do? You just keep these strong guys together, let Primos get 20, 30 seconds and just kind of keep them there and reel them in if he's that strong, which we don't even know if he's that much stronger. He hasn't shown that yet. But what if Del Toro goes with Primos and then they can't reel them in is my question.

I think that's a great problem. If he's strong enough to go with Primos, then he's showing that he's got the legs to. Yeah. And we're just trusting stage 20 over the Finestra. He's okay with, I mean, I guess you have to at this point, but that's, that's a lot of trust in a 21 year old to say, well Spencer, if he gets to stage 20, trust me,

he's going to, he's going to survive stage 22. What about Tom Dumoulin at the Volta? Remember he was like, we were like, wow, this guy's unbelievable. And then it's like epic collapse on stage 20, big mountain stage. So it does happen with these ingenues as you'd say. Yeah. No, I think I, you know, it's to be seen. We don't know. Um, I would give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

He's in great shape and they have to take the time back on him. You know, so it's not, and they have, I used to just sit in there that could just sit on Primos's wheel or he's still a minute ahead of them. Now, you guys are overestimating how well this team is working together. Yeah. Another question, Spencer, completely different. We're talking about UE question, Spencer, completely different. We're talking about UEE being extremely strong, practically sometimes questionable, but still they're in a great situation. On the other side, Red Bulbora with the big favorite of this Giro, Primos, completely the opposite. They're, they're nowhere. I mean, thank God for Giulio Pellizzari. This guy is worth his weight in gold right now. I mean, he's not, not very heavy.

He's skinny. I mean, but he's, he's just, uh, unbelievable. I mean, without it, without Pellizzari, Rimos would be alone every single time. And they do have an excuse. They lost Jay Hindley early on, uh, who was supposed to be, you know, the, the second best writer on the team that does have an impact, but still, um, and it's, it's, I'm, I'm a bit, I'm a bit surprised that, uh, they don't have any more writers around Primos.

What's the mood on the rest day, Johan? Is someone having a hard conversation with Danny Martinez? I mean, he's the one that it's, what can you do? I mean, you can only do what you can do. I mean, it's not like Spencer, it's not like these guys get dropped because they want to get dropped. They just, they're just not there. But as a director, yeah, it is. It's shocking because Pellizzari, if they, what, what, what if they don't pick them up in the

off season and what if they don't send them to the zero primos would have nobody at this race. So do you know anything about, uh, Danny Martinez? What's, what's his situation? Why, why is he not on? Yeah, not in, not in shape. Sure. I know that he was, he trained in Medellín and Bogota. Most of the off season, uh, started racing really late. Uh, you know, it was all in for the zero and Bogota most of the off season started racing really late. It was all in for the Giro and the tour.

So I mean, a guy like that, maybe he just had a bad week start, but you can't count him out. I mean, I would be shocked if he doesn't come around once they hit the high mountains in the second week. So I think hopefully he has a good recovery day today. And I'd be shocked if he goes forward in the time trial, even though he's a very good time trial, but he's not one of the favorites. I would take two days to recover and then we could see a completely different Danny Martinez from stage 10 on. Yeah. If, if, if anybody, if anybody except Primos goes full gas in the time trial on Red Bull, that's not right. You can't send them home because you need them, but that would not be the way

to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, so let's talk about Primos's current predicament, Pickle 10th to 25. In some ways he needs to be down here because as you said with the team, the team's a disaster. They can't control anything. Like they were exposed on stage eight when the breakaway was five and a half minutes up the road, UAE easily isolated Primoz. And then did you guys hear this in the final few hundred meters, UAE blocks the road, Ayuso attacks, and Primoz has no teammates there to help him get through that. He loses only a second, but it just shows you if I,

if UAE can fan out across the front of the road and there's no red bull there to fight back against that, that's a bad situation. What like Primoz is, he can't do the 200 meter tap in probably he's going to gain some time in the time trial. He is only one 12 back on a rider that has podiumed at a grand tour before. So it's not a total disaster. Like the Iuso Lee kind of makes it look more dire than it is. He'll be closer after the time trial

you would assume if he's not too hurt. And then what's the plan from here? Like, how would you gain this time back? Well, one, I don't think he really, I mean, he kind of just got stuck behind that crash. Did he actually fall down hard? Because to me, it looked like he was sort of in the middle. But he went, he went down, he went down.

And then I think the biggest problem was his mechanical afterwards. You know? Yeah. That's what it seemed like. It took him a long time to get going because of the, like he had to undangle his bike and then yeah, like having a flat tire when you're chasing on, obviously it's not good. Yeah. It's a tough day.

I mean, tomorrow is a huge day for all those guys. We'll see how much time they make up, but you know, I'm just, you cannot count out pretty much Roglic. Um, he's just one of those guys that just gonna keep getting better. He recovers as good or better than anybody. And he's got the experience of the grand tour. What is behind him? Johan, where do you think he's going to be?

So he's one 12 down on I use. So who's second to 25 and Del Toro after this time trial, do you think, I mean, the big question too, we didn't talk about this, but they'll tell that the Del Toro situation, we don't know what we're going to get from one. And you said tomorrow stitches two days before a time trial and your knee. That's not great. get from one to use it tomorrow stitches two days before a time trial and your knee. That's not great. So they might just be going with del Toro if I use. So loses time in the time trial.

I don't think the stitches are going to be a determining factor, but, uh, I used to think great shape also. Um, he'll do, he'll do an okay time trial. I don't think it's going to be that big of a deal unless it gets infected or something. You never know. These guys have so many knee issues now. And then I don't know, like hitting, you know, like if you hit your knee, I think that's going to hurt. That's going to hurt tomorrow. Rest day today. He's going to wake up all stiff and sore. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The rest day after the day after a crash, that's, that's not good. And you have a 68 to chain ring to push. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. The rest day after the day after a crash, that's, that's not good. And you have a 68 to chain ring to push. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's going to be 68 for you. So, so what are our picks for the time trial tomorrow? Everybody this episode of the move is brought to you by ketone IQ. If you're like me and constantly on the go training, traveling, podcasting, newsletter writing, you know how hard it can be to stay sharp and energized without overloading on sugar or caffeine.

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It is 28.6K, which you guys look at that, you think that's not very long. You're like, no, that's one of the longest time trials of the season that they're gonna do. It's basically flat. There's a small bump in the middle. The favorites are, this is bet 365, just because I have it pulled up.

Josh Tarling, oof, sorry guys, if you're gonna pick him. Minus 275, so presumably he did not crash yesterday and is very healthy. Edwardo Afini plus 900, Wout Benard plus 1400, Ethan Hader plus 1400, Wani Uso plus 1600, Primoz Roglic plus 1600, Luke Platt plus 2200, Mateusz Wadczek plus 2200. Johan, do you want to go first? Who is your pick to win? Well, I know who George is going to pick.

So I'll have to pick someone else. But I'll go with Eduardo Affini, your time trial specialist. He's in good shape, flat terrain, European champion, time trial. Was he at? Plus 900 you said it was actually a really good pick because that's a really good price. And you're right. He's been very strong. I looked back at these time trial winners, the zero it's oftentimes Italian time trial specialist, like Matteo Sabrero, like you wouldn't really remember that,

but he did win a time trial at the zero. Like at the tour, it's usually GC guys. I remember that one. I remember that, but he did win a time trial at the Giro. Like at the tour, it's usually GC guys. I remember that one time it was the last time trial was Marco Pinotti who won. You know, you're in Italy, motorbikes tend to be quite patriotic. Well, Giro 2020, three time trials. Philippe Ogana wins all three. Okay. But he's obviously one of the best time trials in the world. I'd go with Josh Tarling.

Is he, I mean, obviously he's, he won the first time trial. He's full of confidence right now. And, uh, the team is riding so strong. I feel like the team is, uh is the ambience must be great. It's sort of creeping their way back into the upper tiers of the pro, the pro Peloton. So they're full of confidence and, and, uh, I'm going to keep the momentum going. So I'm picking Josh Tarland. I'm going to get you have to put like a hundred grand on Tarland to get a

return of 50 bucks. I'm going to go out of an art because the KOM that you pointed out, George, it just is very good. It's shocking how much he's recovered from stage three, four, five, six, looks very good. My question for you guys, I forgot to ask earlier. So he's sitting on the wheel. Obviously he should because he has Simon Yates back, who Simon Yates is looking, we talked a lot about Bernal Simon Yates looking pretty good in this Giordataglia. He's sitting on, did you see him pull up to Del Toro and talk to him, ask him a question?

I'd almost kind of look like he asked if he worked with Del Toro, give him the stage and Del Toro just said no, but I don't know what happened, but it was kind of this funny exchange. And then he goes back to the wheel, never to be seen again until 400 meters to go. Do you guys have any idea what he's asking? You're talking about Wout though. Yeah. Wout pulls up to Del Toro. Like the only time he's been out of the wheel, says something, Del Toro kind of just ignores him and keeps riding. And my guess is like, Hey, I can't, you know, I can't work. I'm sorry. I'm not going to attack you. I think knowing Wout, he probably said, Hey, you know, sorry, I have to keep doing this.

And sorry, I'm going to go for the stage win. But I think, you know, we haven't talked about, we haven't talked about Wout. I think we should definitely touch on that because man, what a way to fight back. He started the Giro. We knew he had been sick, didn't go as planned. In Belgium, there was already this theory that, yeah, Wout is going to pull out of the Giro, try to recover for the tour. That guy is a fighter, man. I mean, the way he won that stage yesterday, being on the limit. I mean, he was with, he was with climbers. He was with Bernal, he was with Del Toro, Aransman, and especially also where he won. You know, you can say, OK, this is just a stage in the Giro, you know, but I think for Walt, this was such an important win

because of the circumstances. And I have the impression, having listened to two interviews he did with Belt and TV, we have no idea what this guy went through. You know, we know he crashed very hard in Watergem last year, very hard in the Tour of Spain. But there's so much more. I mean, there's so much more. This explosion of emotion he had was telling, was really telling. And the fact that it was in Siena, where we discovered Wout Van Aert as a road racer actually in 2018, I think we all have the images still of him being third, getting off his bike with

cramps in that last ramp. Yeah, falling on the... This is where he won this important stage now. It is an important moment in Wout's season. And now he has the confidence back. I think he's back to, I mean, he's not, he's not at top level yet, but yeah, I'm, I'm afraid that, I mean, afraid for the rival teams of FISMA that Wout Van Aert is going to do a lot of damage in July. I agree. And he actually went in, he said in his post race interview that once he missed

the breakaway, he thought to himself, there's no chance for the stage when like the climbers are going to ride away from him. And then he said, just started feeling better and better and all of a sudden he's in the position to win. So he went from thinking he had no chance to winning arguably the biggest stage of the zero thus far. And like you said, I think that's just going to catapult them to even more wins in this zero and probably in July as well. Yeah. And the final few hundred meters, it's so dramatic because like if you overtake with 400 meters to go,

it looks like it's too far, but you're winding through these alleys and it's very hard to get around you. It's also funny. I mean, obviously we've been, I mean, Johan, we've been not giving him a hard time, but talking about his struggles. I went back and looked, so we had a great tourist of Spain before he crashes out three stage wins, 20, 25 disappointment, right? That's the narrative. Terrible. He's done 23 race days, 10 times in the top 10, top fives at Roubaix, Flanders, Baranza, Pile and Amstel gold.

I mean, how many times does that even happen? That someone top five Roubaix and Flanders and then top five Amstel gold. I mean, how many times does that even happen? That someone top five Roubaix and Flanders and then top five Amstel gold. That's almost, that's almost never happened. So the season actually has been pretty good, but this win, I agree. It's very important to like, yeah. And also you're going to break through. You know, this, if, if you're Walt Menard in Belgium, man, there is so much pressure on you. It's crazy. It's crazy. And at the same time, he is so loved. You know, like people like him. They're all rooting for him. And even in

even in a lot of other countries. I saw a few images afterwards from commentators from other countries. You know, everybody wanted Van Aert to win. I mean, they all love del Toro, right? Del Toro is a very likable guy, super good writer, but everybody wanted Walt Van Aert to win and he won and it was, it was amazing. Yeah, I agree. Well, and del Toro gets the Jersey. So it's the rare win-win you get is easy for a fan to make that decision. But do you guys have anything else to add before we take off? I think we're good.

Well, George is off to the national championships with Enzo. So we wish him about good luck. Thank you. Hopefully another American title that will be number six. Yeah, that would be number six. Hopefully. We shall see. I'm going to call you on the way to the airport. It is okay, Johan. I need some advice on the radio because I've never done that before. I'm going to call you on the way to the airport. It is okay. You'll want to need some advice on the radio because I've never done that.

So George is going to be the radio man in, in the national champ is just behind. Yeah. So that's exciting. Yeah. Okay. Call me. All right.

Well, George, when does the time trial, when's the road race tomorrow? I think the first riders at 9 AM East coast time and the criteria is Thursday night. And this road race is at 9 a.m. East coast time and the criteria is Thursday night and this road race is Sunday. Okay. Sweet. We'll keep an eye out for results. All right.

Thank you. Good luck. Thanks guys. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye. Ciao ciao. Thank you.