THEMOVE - How Many Stage Wins Can Pogačar Get? | TdF 2026 Stage 14 | THEMOVE+

Episode Date: July 18, 2026

Johan Bruyneel and Spencer Martin discuss Tadej Pogačar's continued dominance with his stage win at Le Markstein on Stage 14, and what exactly Visma and Vingegaard were doing on the stage. They also break down Paul Seixas' incredible performance and debate what defines success for Remco Evenepoel before previewing tomorrow's mountainous Stage 15. Become a WEDŪ Member Today to Unlock VIP Access & Benefits: https://access.wedu.team KetoneAid: Go to http://KetoneAid.Com/THEMOVE for 15% off Lagoon: Use code MOVE for 15% off at https://LagoonSleep.com/THEMOVE Nextbets: Use our special link to see where you can bet in your area and claim the best sign-up offers https://nxtbets.com/betoutcomes/ Ventum: Use code TheMove10 for 10% off anything at: https://ventumracing.com/  

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That's what Bogacha and you are doing. Everybody, welcome back to the Moop Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. here with Johann Bernille. We're breaking down stage 14 of the Tour de France and previewing tomorrow's stage 15 as well as answering a few listener questions. Johan, today's stage was won by Tadei Pagachar with Isaac Deltore on second. Yeah, shocking. We were right with our pick. I was getting a little nervous halfway through, but UA had under control. Del Toro was second 38 seconds back. Paul Sik-Soss, third on the same time.

They both get time bonuses though and Jonas Findergarde falling away again at the end of a little punchy finish after climb. 44 seconds back loses 10 seconds to 6S, 12 seconds and like in real time adding the time bonuses to Del Toro. Looks like we might have a battle for not only the podium

but for second place and then I have a thrilling battle for the white jersey with Paul Sixos taking it from Juan Ayuso and Del Toro just 31 seconds back. Yuso is also only three seconds back. It was a mountain stage through the Vosges Mountains in the Alsace region finishing at the

MAMSki Resort where Bagachar won a few years ago. But as you pointed out, different climb, almost a bike path type climb. It was, I thought, a pretty incredible stage. We saw UA control again, but it was a, they barely caught Richard Carapaz and Tupais Holland Johansson at the top of the final climb to Cathlon was actually the one pulling. Remko was dropped. Remko was back. A lot going on.

But Johan, what did you think about this stage and what's your big takeaway? Yeah, I mean, no surprise, Spencer. Before we talk about the stage, actually, I want to take the advantage of, congratulating Belgian Lucien Van Empe, who was, it's today the 50th anniversary of the last Belgian victory in the Tour de France. 1976 is the last time, you know, the French, the French are complaining that it'd Bernard Hino, who won the last time in 1985. The Belgians, since 1976, we have not won the Tour de France, and we are a cycling nation.

You know, that is really weird. Yeah. So Lucien Van Empe won in 1976 after having won already six times the King of the Mountains. So he's six times, pocket a jersey. But today there was a party in Belgium to honor his victory 50 years ago. So congratulations, Lucien Van Empe. You got to get a Belgian tour winner. Also, almost five years since an American, 101 stages since an American is. on a tour to front stage, Sep Kus into his hometown of Andorra being the last time it happened. But that shocked me. That's a long time ago.

This doesn't seem like that long ago, but almost five years. We got to get an American win here. What are we doing? But, Johan, what did you think of Pagachar's win and then the scramble behind for the podium? You know, first of all, you know, before we can talk about Pogacar's win, Spencer, I think, you know, if we look at today's stage, it was as predicted. it. You know, initially, the bonus sprint came really early. You know, we had intermediate sprint really at the beginning of the stage after they had to go through some really bad weather, by the way, at the start, really pouring rain, dangerous. Luckily, that cleared up because

that region, man, when it rains, it can be really slippery there. It does rain a lot. It's a really a green part of France, but the roads are tricky. The sprint, I think, was the first event of the day, right? Jasper Philipson won that sprint. Pedersen not second, get my third, the usual suspects. So, you know, okay for Pedersen. You know, he loses another five points. So I think what was Philipson is now like 36 points behind?

36 points. So if this happens every stage for the rest of the tour, Pedersen wins by one point because he is a 30. So, yeah. So, yeah, I think, I guess all he has to do is just get second in every intermediate sprint and he's good to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think he'll need some points in another stage also. It's, it's remarkable, actually, that, you know, Philipson and Gidemi keep, I mean, of course, it's also the only thing that's left to do for them, right?

Yeah. But still, I mean, but, I mean, it's going to be very difficult that there's another pure bunch sprint. So if I would look ahead at those stages, and I'm Phillips and then Guillermo, it's going to be extremely difficult. But then on the other hand, that's what left for them. It's interesting at the beginning of the stages to see those sprints because that's basically for Alpacin and for NSN, for example, that's their race. That's their race.

Yeah. Little track. Fortunately, they have guys for GC. So they have other objectives. But yeah, Philipson, yeah, good for him. And the break doesn't even try to go. They just wait until after the intermediates, right? Because they know that they can't get away.

Yeah. And then as expected, you know, a group went, a big group initially, with surprisingly also, again, Tom Pitcock in that group. Yeah. Three Visma riders in that group. You know, I think there was Armidale. Jorgensen and Victor Campanarts. And then, you know, there was Carapas and the Johanneson twins,

Parapentre, Ena Rubio. Strong, strong riders in that break. And we could see straight away, okay, you were setting the pace. The moment we saw that they kept it around two, two and a half minutes, it was clear what the intention was going to be. And actually, we should have listened to some interviews from before. before the start because there were some, for example, did you see Johannesen's interview after the finish?

Yeah. He said he talked to today and that Pagachar had, he had asked, you know, he told him he wanted to go in the break and Pagat Shah had said, ah, you know, maybe not a great day for the break. It went anyway. How unbelievable is that? You know, like you're the strongest rider. You know, you have the strong.

strongest team. And you kind of can dictate what the development of the stage is going to be. That's what Bogacha and you are doing. Yeah. It's incredible. And yeah. Did we say Tom Piccock was in there, which did force. I mean, I don't think UAE is seriously worried about Piccock, but it did put a guy that is fourth in the G.C. in the break, which essentially kills the break because you're not going to get a big enough gap.

Yeah. The G.C. guy up there. Yeah. And also the. three Visma riders. I don't know what you think. Why were they in there? I mean, to me, it's like when I look at these strategies and then, of course, you know,

I mean, we have to applaud for these teams to send guys in there. But, you know, with the guys that were there, they were not going to win the stage because there were stronger climbers in there. But yet they did a lot of work. And then what's really remarkable to me is that like UAE are. absolutely not concerned about whatever tactical move Vizma is doing. They could not care less. They're just, you know, like Visma sends three riders. Okay, so what? Great guys. See you later on the climb. I know. It's like flies like buzzing around a T-Rex. They just like don't care. They don't

even register it. And think how far we are from 2020, you know, I think 2020 where Vizma, oh, wow, they're pulling, they're pulling these tricks. UAE doesn't know what to do. Like, we are a long way from that. It was jarring watching that today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they know that man for man. They're stronger. And then also if you see, okay, Jorgensen, maybe maybe a little bit better than he's sick or been sick. He has crashed. Victor, poor Victor is trying for dear life. But you can see he's on the limit. And then Al-Mirail was, you know, also coming back from a crash. So there's not really anything that they should be worried about. So why do you think that there was three Visma riders in the breakaway?

I guess number one, George brought it up on the show, stage win. Trying to get a stage win. Well, we're not going to win with these guys. It should be except Cusor P. Gonzalez, he was in the break to win the stage like today. I mean, that's also jarring that we're talking about, Mateo Jorgensen can't win a mountain stage, but that's where we are. No, I mean, in this, in this, this, this, Matteo Jorgensen right now, unfortunately he's not not at the level that he's we are expected him to be for whatever reason it may be but

matthew jurgens is not going to win a mountain stage from a breakaway like this and then the other option would be they know exactly what you just said they know those guys aren't good enough climbers right now to make it over the climbs so maybe get over the first three climbs and try to help there was a bit of a lull between the third and the fourth categorized climb on the day i that's the only thing I can think of. Yeah, but what, what. Okay, I mean, they can, okay, yeah, they can probably, you know, they can stack up on bottles.

And then when the pellet, when the group of favorites catches them, they can, you know, pour water over Jonas's head and give him a bottle, for example. Yeah. Is that really the purpose of that kind of tactical move, you know, because all the teams, and especially Visma is one of the teams, they have a tremendous amount of staff on the climbs and on the course. I don't think Jonas has been ever in a situation where he was short on drinks or cooling.

I don't think so. No. I mean, I don't know. Do you have a theory? Why? I don't really know why they would do it other than to look active and keep the morale up. Yeah.

I mean, maybe maybe hoping that the break is going to get a lot bigger gap and then they're going to make it over the climbs. And then hopefully Jonas could. I mean, it would be far-fetched to think that they would think that they can get actually over that last climb and then be of any service in those last six kilometers to the finish. That makes no sense to me. That was not going to happen. Well, this is going to sound a little harsh, but does it remind you a little bit of like, you know, you cut a chicken's head off and then the body will run around sometimes? Well, it's kind of like, is this reflexes of a former Fisma that we're seeing?

Like this is something they would have done in the past. And maybe they're just like going back to the reflexes that they used to do, but they just don't have the manpower anymore. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. But anyways, you know, from the moment we saw basically Neil Spollett,

basically on his own controlling that group. And he spotted did an amazing job today. He was, he pulled that whole first climb. He's probably one of the heaviest guys. in the race. No, he's probably not, it doesn't have the weight of Ghana and Werenst goal, but he probably is the third heaviest guy. He's probably up there, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, that was an amazing job. And then, um, I mean, for me, a guy who really left a big impression on me today in terms of his personal performance was

failing to Josh Hartner. That guy did an amazing job today by himself, um, bringing that gap down to basically, I mean, at the bottom of the last climb, the remainder of the break, which were four riders, then I think was Carapas and Johanneson, Parapentre and Rubio, they were down to a minute. That's, and that's just the job of one rider, Felix, Kosh. And those are strong guys. I think Carapas is a really strong rider. And I have on my notes that he got dropped off basically 20,

8K to go. They're like, all right, Felix, you're on the front. And then he's got to pull back strong guys, strong motivated guys and get the gap down to a minute by the base of the final climb. What did you think of DeCathlain coming to the front on the final climb? Yeah, I mean, that was interesting, Spencer. I mean, it's like, you know, we, of course, UAE, they had a plan. The plan was that Bogacha would attack on the last climb and take time and win the stage. but then you know you still have to see how the teammates respond right we had we had

Grochartner then I think after Grosch Ardner it was supposed to be Brandon McNulty who did a little bit of pacing but then Decaptone came to the front they eliminated Grosch McNulty and Yates and Yates couldn't even come to the front yeah so listen it was still great for

it's great for pogachar and then and then Sepp Kuss started the pace first I think because first I think who was it Lippewitz and Seikas who went a little bit ahead and then Kus needed to close that gap. It really went deep to pull him back in. Yeah I did a great job did a great job and then Yonah surprisingly takes over and starts to ride really fast and that was

a surprise for me to see you know, I mean, if you're in second position and you want to try to challenge the leader, you're not going to pace for him. I thought Yos was going to start dumping a bottle over Pagachar, give him some food. It looked like he was his teammate. It was really strange. You know, I mean, the only explanation I can find, Spencer, is for both Visma and Jonas and even Deccatlon. you know obviously we see

listen hats off for vingergaard he took responsibility should he have done it in my opinion no but to me it's a sign is it a sign that he's trying to eliminate potential rivals for the podium it's kind of what I thought at the time probably you know that's not definitely not a move that's not definitely not a move with the intention to win the Tour de France under these circumstances you know

I think what's happening Spencer is very simple. What we see on the screen is that nobody can touch Pugachar. We see that. Now, these riders, they see it and they feel it and they know it. In their mind, there is no question that Pogacar is beatable, including Vizma and including Jonas Wingergaard. They will say otherwise, But whatever they say, you know, the riders know very good what the difference is in strength. And so, you know, Jonas is, in my opinion, racing for second. You know, he's today, for example, he knows that he's probably the strongest climber of the rest of the riders. I think he showed that today also.

He set the pace. And then after setting the pace for quite a long time, including on. that little easier part in the middle of the climb, which is a huge disadvantage for the guy who's pulling and great advantage for the guy who's in the wheel. Then we get to the steepest climb Pulachar attacks, I think with one and a half K to go. And who's the second guy on his own is still Jonas Wingergart. So to me, that shows that he is the strongest rider of all the other riders after what he has done today. Maybe in the end, he's only fourth in the stage.

But I just think it's trying to make sure that you're going to be second. It's the only thing I can think of. Otherwise, it makes no sense. It makes no sense unless you also want to say, okay, I don't like these accelerations. I'm just going to pace. And that's my fastest way to get to the front. Bogachar couldn't care less. First of all, he was three and a half minutes ahead already.

And whatever. he didn't need to take time. And on top of that, for Pogacra, if it slows down a bit, he has that acceleration that Jonas for the moment doesn't seem to have. You know, it seems to me like he and his team probably has figured out that the best way for Jonas to get as fast as possible to the top is to ride his own pace. Yeah. Well, so, but, okay, let's say he wants to get second.

He actually went the wrong direction because now he's lost time on guys that could get second. Yeah. So, yeah, okay. Did he have to do anything? He lost, well, 12 seconds to Del Toro. That's not, that's been cheddar for. I don't think he sees Del Toro as arrival for second place. You should see Paul Success's arrival and he lost in.

Sixth is a problem. And like unnecessarily. Yeah. That's what drives me nuts. It's like, I don't understand why he did any of that. Yeah. No, me neither. I mean, I was, I was really surprised to see him, you know, go to the,

front and then start to set a pace. And actually, it must have been a hard pace because guys like Remko and even Del Toro was struggling in the back and Ayuso was struggling. You know, and all the other guys like, you know, Scalmosa got dropped, Lenny Martinez got dropped. I mean, those are good climbers. They got dropped when Jonas was spacing. And so must have been really hard.

But then if you look at, I mean, it was funny. I was listening to Eurosport. one of the commentators, you guys switched languages depending on who's talking. But one of the commentators on Euro Sports, you know, had this marvelous vision all of a sudden. He had seen a grimace on Todde Pogachar's face while he was sitting at the real event. I mean, come on, don't you see his demeanor? The guy's just freaking like, you know, he was on the radio, you know, he was rubbing his nose, like, cleaning his hands on his shoulder. taking a bottle. No, he was not on the limit. Yeah. And at this point, even if he wasn't a limit,

the limit would be not losing time. Like that's Pagachar not in great shape because he's so much better than those guys. Yeah. I also was surprised to hear some comments of commentators who said, yeah, you know, Pugacha was not dominant today. You know, he didn't take as much time as we thought, you know, we didn't see a, we saw a good Pugaccha, another great Pogacha. I said, which race have you been watching? The guy attacked with one and a half K from the top and he takes almost a minute on his closest rival. It's like at the finish, right? Yeah.

The net gain was 54 seconds, no? Yes. And he pulled out time the entire flat run while they were rotating through behind. So if that's not dominant, I don't know what is. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I hear a lot of that too, Johan.

It's silliness. I don't know what people are thinking. Well, you know, he got us, he got us some, I mean, he got us used to some really incredible raids where he takes off and just destroys everybody, everybody. But, you know, today was a relatively short effort. What was it? Seven and a half kilometers in total, his effort. Yeah, and one of those being the climb, you know.

Yeah, one and a half kilometer uphill and then, and then. 6K to the finish. It was surgical. It wasn't reckless. You waited until it was the perfect time to attack. He just wasn't out there throwing caution to the wind, which is smart. You know what's also remarkable, Spencer? It's now the third time I'm seeing this with today.

It's like he goes and it's like he has everything completely figured out on how fast is he going to go on that last section. And he takes 10 seconds and then on the, in the, in the, in this. shortest, I mean, in half of the effort, the last half of the effort, he just takes another, it takes the same time as he took with his attack. Yeah. It's not like he stays there. After he sits down. Initially, you can, you say, okay, you know, you're not just at 10 seconds. Same thing happened on the Tour Malé. You know, he just stays there 10 seconds, 15 seconds. And then all of a sudden, it's like he sees the top and he just goes in another gear. He was obviously

going full gas. I mean, there he was grimacing. Uh, you know. I mean, I've seen somewhere that his attack was four minutes, 37 seconds. And apparently during those four and a half minutes, he did eight, eight minutes, eight, eight minutes, eight points point eight point four watts per kilo during that attack. You know, after two weeks of racing, that's pretty, pretty impressive. That's like 550 watts for the last five minutes of the climb, basically. Yeah. No, but, you know, he attacks and he does not. stagnate you know he has this ability to still those last 500 meters today of that climb were

unbelievable he went a lot faster than during his attack yep yeah he like sits down and settles in but the settles in is a faster pace than the attack and he just yeah torches everybody it's super impressive but johan it was i thought it was a cerebral performance he didn't waste any energy waited to the last moment also a great physical performance is there anything he could have done to help himself even more physically in this performance. Well, I mean, I know, I know he's taking ketones. Perfect. Maybe not these ones.

I don't know. We can't. We can't. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. The whole.

The whole petons is, uh, is, is using ketones. It's, you know, the new fuel source, um, since a couple of years ago. Ketone 8 is, uh, our sponsor since, uh, the middle of the tour, I think. Ketone 8 is actually one of the first companies that brought a real ketone ester to the market. It's not so well known to consumers. There's other brands out there that maybe have a better marketing strategy or invest more in marketing, but it's known by the pros. Personally, I still have a lot of connections in the Peloton.

And when people ask me about ketones, this is what I recommend. It's great to having them finally on the podcast as a sponsor. But this is the real deal. I know they're a paying sponsor now, but over the last six, seven years, I have spoken to riders and to teams and I've actually recommended the teams. They're the official sponsor, for example, of Sudhaal Quickstep in this Tour de France and XDS Astana. That's an official partnership they have. But I do know that there are also several other teams and even individual riders who purchase

personally ketone 8 because they prefer this product compared to other some maybe more diluted versions that are out there. It's very sensitive. This is a little bottle. There's 25 grams of pure ketone ester in here. This has 10 servings, by the way. So you can do quite a bit. So you just take a little sip. Most of the riders use it straight after the finish. I think we've all seen rather straight away after the finish. They just chucked down a bottle of ketones because it enhances and helps with their recovery. As I said, it's a real ketone ester. The other stuff, there's dials, there's ketone salts.

They don't work as well. For our DeMove listeners during this podcast, there's a special action during the Tour de France. Go to ketone8.com and use the code DeMove at checkout for 15% off. It's a very special offer because until now, ketone 8 has never offered any discounts at all, not even on Black Friday. So ketone8.com slash the move for 15% off or scan the QR code here on the screen. Do it. Do it now.

The ketone wars are real, Johan. There's teams out there. There's a lot of chatter about what ketones are using, which ones really work. So trust Johan this one. Usually Spencer, it's, you know, the purest ketone esters are the ones. ones that taste the worst. If it tastes, if it tastes too good, it's probably the other key to Nassol, it's probably a dilution.

Yeah. How do you know you have the right stuff? It tastes like absolute crap. That's how you know it's working. But so the win gives pagachar. The win that I think we both agree is pretty impressive. We loved it. His fourth win of this tour, 25th win ever.

So as we said in our Ventum trivia the other day, he's now 10 away. from the record. How many wins do you think Tedé Pagachar is going to get at this Twitter France? He is four. Well, you know, I know a few days ago I said five, so I'm going to have to change that. I think in 24 hours, it's going to be five, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's also, this is actually, I have a little stat here also, which I saw, I think, on Velo.

So today, it's his 125th victory as a professional writer. it seems like yesterday that we were celebrating his 100 victory in the Tour de France. It might have been a couple months ago. I think it was last year. No, I was last year in the tour. I think last year in the tour, I think he won his 100 victory. I don't know if it was in the yellow jersey or in the rainbows. I don't remember that.

But last year was his 100 victory. And he's not shocking about that. 125. Since the moment you're describing, he's probably raced 40 days. So he's wrecked up. He's 125. Yeah. Yeah.

So he has done Spencer. So he has 125 victories as a pro. And his total race days as a pro is 406. Oh my God. And so that is that's ridiculous. That rate, that winning rate is crazy. I mean, knowing how many times. how easy it is in cycling to not win.

Mostly, most of the time you don't win. And a lot of the times, you're not even trying to win. You know, there's multiple stages of this race where he's just trying to get through without crashing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's 31% win rate, by the way. I've never seen anything like that.

That's crazy. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah. That is unbelievable. I think there's 170 people in every stage at least. You know, I think that's how many people are left. And so what are your odds of winning a stage?

Not great. very hard to wait. So do you know yesterday, Marr Schmidt, great writer. We love Mara Schmidt. We're at Mara Schmidt positive podcast. He is the worst ranked writer in the UCI rider rankings to win a stage of this tour to fronts. And he is a very good writer.

And he makes a lot of money. You know? Yeah. Like you have to be very good to win stages. Yeah. No, to win the stage of the tour, you need, yeah, you need to be really, really good. I mean, look at these speeds also, you know, going back to yesterday, like a half mountain stage, 2,400 meters elevation, 50K an hour. I mean, what the hell?

Well, the last, before today, the last three stages were each in the top 10 fastest stages of all time at the tour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They still have also found a stat today that they are only half done with the climbing at the Tour de France, despite having a week left. Yeah, that's crazy. So one week left. So there's seven stages left and they still have half of the vertical meters to do.

Wow, that's crazy. I think it's the hardest third week I've ever seen. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, I wonder if it's a good thing. You know, I think this tour has been designed with a purpose, obviously, to avoid the World Cup football, which, you know, finishes tomorrow. and then have these spectacular stages at the end. But, you know, what are we going to see in these really hard stages? I think it's not going to be great.

Yeah. Have in mind that after week two, there are 20 riders in the Peloton who could still race for the victory. And you have 160 riders who are dead. Dead. They're just dragging themselves to Paris. That's their goal. So how much spectacle of what are you going to see if these stages are so hard? That's a bit my concern.

Yep, I agree. I have the same concern. Wait, did you answer the question? So he's going to have, let's say, is five at the end of five going into the second rest day. Well, we don't know if he's going to win tomorrow, right? But I suspect he's going to win. So it's going to be seven, no, seven stages. Seven, one shy of the record. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. So it's, it's Eddie Merck's and Freddie Martins, no, who have the most wins with eight. Yeah, and Merck did it twice. And did he know never win eight stages? Well, well, not a second. Could be. Could be.

He might have won eight. I mean, there was a, I think he did win eight stages. So he was dominant. He was super dominant. I don't know how many, but I don't know if it's true or not. And then I'm going to guess that in the really early days, there's guys who won more stages because probably always the same guy who won the hardest stages. Yeah, true.

Yeah, like those are all to be like, oh, there was 18 stages and one guy, one 17. Well, I mean, Spencer, you know that the first, the first tour de France ever, you could, it was impossible to win eight stages because there were only five stages. They were probably all 1,000 kilometers long though. Yeah, like five, six hundred kilometers per stage. Oh my God. Jeez. It's a grunge. Give us a break.

If you look at the map of the first tour de France, it was the tour de France. So basically they started and they did the tour of. France, like just on the border. They just went around the border. That is wild. Well, yeah. Let's take a quick ad break and then I have a question for you. I have two questions for you. And then we have a listener question and then we'll do the preview for tomorrow stage. We'll be right back though. Growing businesses deal with the same problem. Too many tools, too much back and forth and not enough time. Odu helps bring it all together. It's an all-in-one business management platform. Fully integrated

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Use code to move MOVE for 15% off Lagoon, the marginal gain you've been sleeping on. So, Johan, my first question for you is, should Tom Pickcock have gotten in the break today? Was that a good idea? I mean, I don't think it made a lot of difference. Maybe, I mean, maybe he spent a little bit of energy to get in the break. But once he was in the break, he did not do anything. He had teammates there. And then he had Visma.

So he's not gone any harder than, then, I mean, I think it was actually easier because he didn't have to fight for position in that. So, yeah. And he finishes three and a half minutes down. Yeah. I think, I think Spencer today, Pitcock paid for his efforts of yesterday. Yeah, he spent a lot yesterday. He paid for it today.

Yeah. He's still in the top 10. But he's back to where he was. He was in 10th. Was he in 10th or 11th before this day yesterday? 10th, I think. And now he's in 9th. Okay.

So now he's in 9. So yeah. I'll tell you what, though. That's a, it's a competitive top 10. The last after the top 10 is Florine Lipowitz, Isaac Del Toro, Mateo Schummoza, Tom Piccock, Lenny Martinez. Egan Bernal's 11th. Jordan Jigat's 12th.

That's, that's really tough. That's crazy. Oh, listen. I mean, if you want to be in the top 10 in the Tour de France, you have to be a damn good bike rider. Yes. So my next question. No, you know, what we...

Question for you, Spencer. What was my best placing in the Tour de France? I think, oh my God, this is tough. Well, you were podium at the vault. Don't look it up. Don't look at up. Don't look at the world. So let's run a little discount here.

So let's say, what's a podium at the Volta equivalent to? Were you seventh at the Tour de France? I was seventh, yeah. It's the seventh. Oh, man. I can't have that. I almost got stumped there. Well, knowing what we know now, who's going to be on the podium of this race overall at the end?

You know, I mean, that's another thing I want to talk about. Paul Seix-Sas. I think we should spend some time on him. I think it's going to be Pogacar and Jonas Wingergarde and Paul Sexas. I think that's the podium. And so right now it's just it's Pagachar, Jonas, Remko. So then you would think Remko, yeah, well, follow up. Sixthouse will come up.

Sextas is really, it's incredible. I was skeptical. Still a week to go. But you know what? I had expected him to crack already. Like after 10 days, like all of a sudden, you know, the race catches up with you. And you're, this guy is a special, this is a special guy. So I'm taking back what I, with the criticism and the doubt I had before the tour.

If you're at this level, he showed today after 14 stages, you're not breaking down. You're staying there. No, he almost looks like he's getting stronger. And he looks fresh and happy and, you know, like upbeat after the stage. He's now in the white jersey, by the way, only by three seconds. But, you know, he's the youngest rider in the race and has the white jersey. And today, you know, when it really mattered, you had Pogacar up front and you had Jonas. And then he was the guy who dropped all these other guys and called up first to Jonas Wingerard on that climb.

And then later, just a little bit after the downhill, I mean, after the top of the climb, Del Toro came back. But yeah, I think, I think sex is definitely, yeah. Um, hmm. It's two years younger than the next youngest rider at the race. Who's the next youngest rider? I actually don't know. I'll stop my head. I mean, there'd be 21.

Is it going to be Vlad von Mechelen? The guy who got relegated? Belgian, the Belgian guy, he's young rider. From Louvin? That guy? Let's see. Wait, start list. Hold on.

We're going to figure this out. So. Wait, youngest to oldest, please. Okay. Nope. Robbie, it's another Belgian. Robbie don't. Robert don't.

Robert don't. Yeah. On picnic post in L. But is he still in the race? He finished today. Okay. Okay. And Vlad is he?

22 then. He's like 20 days older than Rob, Robbie. Okay. So he's also 21. Yeah. Oh, 22. Okay. And, well, Paul Six Oz is an old 19.

If we're ever splitting hairs here, he's coming up on that 20. Yeah, like in a month. Oh, man, he's getting old. He's getting old. Izzy washed up is the question I was going to ask about. No, there's been too. I'm really impressed with the way he's handling everything. You know, it's.

And I think, I think Deccatlon, they're actually doing a pretty good job by protecting him. You know, he's not, he's not much in the media. like nothing to compare to what I expect. I kind of forget he's here at times. Yeah, you know, he's been racing very smart, you know, he hasn't done one thing wrong for the moment, which is incredible. I mean, obviously now, you know, he's getting really,

I mean, the people, the French are going to go crazy, but it seems to me like he is dealing with it really, really in a very mature way, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And there's this debate going on. There's this debate going on, Spencer. I want to know your opinion.

So there's this debate going on about Paul Sik and his future. You know, he has a contract with DeKathlon through 2007. Then his agent has been on the record that there's a lot of interest and offers. And, you know, there's been rumors that UAE would be interested. Then there's this reported. offer of 13 million euros of Pinarello, Guter, 6.5. I don't think that's true. I think that's, I'm going to do my little Trump, my daily Trump, like fake news, fake news.

I think that's fake news. But, you know, what do you think he should do? Should he go to another team? Should he stay at decathlon? What do you think he should do? Oh, I'm kind of biased here. But on that 13 million figure, you know what's going on here? And I've poked around about this.

Agents will just leak that. So then it sets a fake market value. You know, you really should take, same thing with Oscar Onley. That was a fake number that was rewarded. And they do it to increase the price for other people. So,

yeah, I, this might be controversial. I think he should stay. I don't know why he would go to another team. Yeah. He should definitely stay. should definitely stay and he should use the, I would say probably also like pretty much

unlimited resources of that team, you know, to build everything around him. You know, decathlon is a huge company. The second sponsor, what is it, CMN, CMA, CGM. That's like Deccatlon times five. It's one of the biggest companies in the world. Yeah. I think he should stay. and, you know, obviously negotiate the contract, but they should, you know, listen, going to

UAE, in my opinion, makes zero sense. Zero sense. I don't understand it. You know, there's only, there's only one way I could see him go to UAE is if Isaac Del Toro leaves. And then, you know, be in the shadow of Pugachar and then take over from Pugachar with that. And Pagatria is, what, eight years older than him? Yeah. Maybe that could work.

Maybe. But anyway, Pogacar apparently has reportedly has a deal until 2030. And he said already several times that he intends to finish that contract. So, you know, definitely not go to UAE. He needs to stay in DeKatloom, man. I don't understand. I heard a rumor from a rumor monger, someone who does this professionally. And they said, deal's done.

He's already signed with UAE. No. But if you think about it, well, how does that make any sense? And he's not a dumb guy. Like he wants to go to the tour as a leader next year. Well, I think it's had a production. And especially, Spencer, especially in the case of Paul Texas, a French guy, you know, it would be any other talent, huge talent and other nationality. You could say, you know what?

I'm going to this team. I'm going to sit out a tour. They're going to teach me in the Vuelta or the GER. I'm going to have the whole team around me. I'm going to have other opportunities. Like he's like us. This is only the tour. He can only go to the tour from a tour.

now on. You know, I know. Before we said, okay, he should do the Velt or this or that. He's showing now that we were all wrong. I mean, still a week to go to Paris, but I don't expect him to crack now. And even if he's not on the podium, even if he's top five, it's amazing. It's arguably more impressive than Pagatja winning what he's doing right now. It's without precedent.

I was pretty young also, you know, when he won his first tour. He was two years older than him, though. Yeah, but it was his second year pro. Same thing. Yeah. It's also, well, I think we should agree the 2020 tour win was impressive. We're not minimizing that. But think I gotcha in 2019 was really good, but he wasn't winning that Valta.

You know, like success, what we're seeing from at this age. Here's a little thing that I heard today. So Luke Roe was going to leave DeKathlon as a sport director. He's now not leaving. He's staying for three years. And you think, well, why? What changed? Why was he going to leave?

Where was he going to go? To that company, in Aos? That was the- Didn't want to stay? He left there. So if he signed on for three years, yeah, does he know something that makes that an appealing place to be?

That's also a huge, it's a team that has impressed so far, Johan. Am I wrong? They were amazing today, supporting him. Yeah, they are there. You know, it's not like, you know,

there's always at least two riders with him. And then on top of that, they are the ones who are taking the initiative and actually putting the hurt on on the favorites the top eight nine riders and they have a guy who's i mean they had two guys there together with sex us that so yeah what more are you looking for from yeah and so they can i mean and they can still hire a lot of talent and and improve you know which they they they would probably they will if sex us stays there so yeah i think I think he should stay at, I mean, it's a very important topic in France.

I don't know if you saw it. Do you see that, do you see actually that the French president, Emmanuel Macron, has publicly asked Paul Seix to stay with Decapland? I did see this, yeah. He doesn't have a great track record of getting involved with this, though. Was that? I don't know. He got involved with Mbapé, Mbapé stayed. The team was worse, and then Mbapapé left and the team won.

So maybe Macron should just stay out of it. But do you know who did two, there's two G.C. riders that have attacked Pagachar this race. Do you know who they are? Two G.C. riders who have attacked Pogacar. Yeah. Or have even just launched any sort of move off the front of a G.C. group. Lipowitz? Yep. Today.

Yeah. And then someone went with him today. Okay. Success. Yeah. Yeah, and this are the only two guys that have done anything in any G.C. group. So that's pretty impressive. I think he's an attack.

It was not really an attack. It was, you know, a little acceleration. And Pogacha was just looking behind because he didn't want to be in second wheel. Well, it did blow up Scepcus. And then it actually was kind of significant because it blew up Scepcun for reasons. We still don't understand forced Jonas Vindigard to the front, setting up the Pagotcha attack, setting up Vindigard, not getting time bonuses and losing time at the end. I still am blown away by that.

But here's a question for you. I still think, though, Spencer, you know, we've been critical about Visma and Jonas. I think actually, if you look at Jonas's performance today, like, and you put the end result on the side, I think Jonas is pretty going pretty well. That was a really good performance. There's always a difference between the performance and the result, right? And I think the performance of the Jonas Ringergaard today, he put his own rhythm. it was really hard on everybody else except Pugachar.

And then, you know, he did too much pulling, for sure. Makes no sense. He did that, he set that tempo also on that flatter part. And then you would think that when Pogacar attacks, he would blow up at least for a minute, the first minute. He did not blow up. You know, he accelerated a bit and his rhythm was the fastest of everybody. else. So I think Jonas is

good. He's definitely not on par with Bogachar and he knows it. And I think that's why he's racing like this. Yeah. He looks good on the climb, but you don't want to lose time to people. If you want to be second...

Before we come to say hi. Bobby's here. Bobby needs to... Bobby is yeah, he's asking my attention. So he comes to say hi to a lot of. To our viewers. Viewers love Bobby. So we have a question for Bobby.

Are you going to stay here till the end of the podcast or what should I do? Okay. He's going to stay. All right. Okay. Question for Bobby from Leanne. Then I didn't write this question. This is going to sound like I wrote it.

Question for Johann. At what point are we going to accept that Remcoe shouldn't be going for GC in Grand Tours? He did win a Valta, but the vast majority of his success has been in one-day races. Every year is weight yo-yo's as he prepares for the grand tour. Antoors, but shouldn't he just put his weight back on and race classics and cobbles? That's where he's always been the most successful. Every year he loses weight to transform into a GC rider and it just doesn't work. Kind of a relevant question in light of the extremely confusing performances we've seen from him on both these mountain stages where he's out of it.

Then he's back in it to it. Yeah. No, listen, we've said it already a few times. Remko, the difference with Remko this year is that he's fighting. He keeps fighting. He does not, you know, we've seen sometimes, like in the past, you know, he got a difficult day, got dropped, and it's like, you know, he gave up in his head. We've seen that several times. That doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen. He's super confident in his abilities. And no, I don't think he should give up on G.C. Let's not forget that he's, let's have a look at the top 10, right, of this, of this Tour de France. Remko has won a grand tour and he's been podium in the Tour de France. How many riders

except Jonas Wingergaard can say the same thing in the top 10? How many? I guess Tade. Yeah, okay. We're not going to talk about Tadda. I mean, he's never won the Volta. You know? So is Rinkgo

better than Tate? We have to ask the question. No, but how many how many riders except Polacchar and Jonas Wingerard have a podium at the Tour of France and a win in another ground tour. I mean, the only other rider that would be close is Lipowitz, but he's missing the win in a grand tour part. I mean, there's one rider in this, there's one rider in this race. It's not top ten.

It's Carapas, yeah. But other than that, there's nobody. Well, I mean, then there's Jay Hindley, right? Jay Hindley has won the Giro and he's been second and third in the Giro. second and yeah he's won it you've never been podium at a tour though no he's never been podium at a tour that's correct yeah yeah yeah it is pretty elite company here's the question here's a follow-up question though johan but but but in terms of remco i think i think uh he he remco's going to keep fighting you know and and remco has figured out that even on really

hard stages when he obviously his his goal is the podium right he know knows he won't win the tour and he probably also knows he won't be second. So for the moment he's in third place. We've had a few hard mountains. This is already. We didn't have the time trial yet where he will take time on everybody, I think. I mean, Paul success is pretty good time trials. He's not going to beat Remko in the time trial. I know, but if Rimco can't bank on taking a ton of time back on a guy like that. But no, I mean, I'm not saying, I mean, he probably, I mean, most likely the podium will be not Remko. But he, he's trying.

And so can he be top five in the tour? I think he can be top five. But so here's the follow up. So yeah, I think so too. Let's say fifth, fourth, great, great place, right? Yeah. Is Remko want to continue to fight for top five in the tour? Is that interesting to him personally?

Well, I mean, no, but he can win another grand tour and he can, I mean, it's, you can combine, you know, I mean, I think also at Red Bull, they have to follow this path at least initially. I mean, he's come. I don't know how long he signed three years, probably. Project won't go. Even a pool, huge investment. And that brings up another problem. They paid him too much money to get fifth.

That's probably true. That's because I agree like he's fighting. I think he could fight all the way to Paris and have a great race. But next year, is that going to be motivating? of like, I'm going to, I'm going to fight as hard as I can. Yeah. Well, you know, Spencer, it's also not, I mean, like, I hear people say, you know, okay, yeah, well, you know, why lose the weight, put the weight back on?

Or, you know, I mean, these guys are not robots. It's not like on demand. He's obviously trained very hard, you know, tried to be as light as possible. But man, he's still super powerful. I mean, if you look, the power he is displaying on those stages. at the end, after having been in trouble, he's lost weight. He hasn't lost much power. You know, he's super explosive.

I mean, it's like the sprint he won on the other stage today again. In Barcelona, he came back from the back also, was super explosive. So it's not like he's lost weight and lost explosiveness. He's still very explosive. Well, well, he's more explosive. You know, it's like you don't have to be fast. than the bear. You have to be faster than the people you're running with away from the bear. Yeah, of course. He's sprinting against other guys that have been dropped. He's probably not explosive

compared to Pagachar, which is ultimately what's important or del Toro. But I don't know. I don't know. I think it's going to be tricky for them because the amount of money they've invested, his personal ambition and expectations is fifth place of success. I would say probably not. It's not. No, it's not. And Remko will not be happy with fifth place. In his mind, he belongs on the podium. That's for sure. Is that even enough for Remko though? Well, I mean... The third place of the tour? Yes. In this, with these rivals, yes. He can't beat Jonas in Tully. He cannot beat them unless one of them gets sick and gets injured or whatever. But, you know, he was on the podium already in the Tour de France. I'll forget that. You know, we, we're often fast to criticize him.

He's a hell of a bike rider, you know. He's a hell of a bike rider. Well, I don't think it's, I don't think the debate should be good or bad bike rider. I think we should say good bike rider, but X, Y, Z, but, you know, they've spent, what did you say the transfer fee was? 7 million. That's a lot. You got to be good, better than good.

Plus, plus, reportedly, six million euro. salary. So that's 13 million in year one. That's crazy. That's where it starts to cave. That's what the logic caves in on itself. Where you're like, oh, is that fifth place money? That doesn't make me, you know, then again, you know, you're dealing with these multinational companies, Red Bull. What do they care? We just give another five million, whatever. Yeah. I would guess there's employees at Red Bull who would say. Red Bull's not just handing out five million bucks left and right. Ironically, he could probably win the tour of Flanders.

If Bagachar ever has a flat tire, bad luck. Like to me, that almost looks like his, maybe he was worth the signing just for the classics. I don't know because he's pretty dang good at the Tour of Flanders this year. But, well, yeah, he needs to go to, yeah, I mean, the problem is for Remko and for most of those talents of this generation is that Bogacha is everywhere. Yeah. He's everywhere.

Every single race, Milan, you go from Milan San Remo, the Tour of Flanders to almost winning Pariubé to winning the Tour de France and dominating. It's just insane to think about this. It's like it's this is the same as Merck's. Marks won everything. You know, he could crash at San Ramo and then he won't win, right? Sorry? He could crash at San Ramo and then he won't win, right?

Oh, wait. Yeah. That didn't stop. I'm kidding. It didn't matter. Yeah. He could get lost. He could.

get distracted by the ocean. That's the only hope at this point. But the Rimcoqa, it's a sticky, it's a sticky thing just because of the the transfer fee like that. I mean, yeah, maybe they don't care, but I don't know. It's also difficult to justify Spencer, you know, if you, if you, if it's true. I mean, you know, I, at least I have no reason to believe that it's not true because of who told me, you know, this 13 million.

you're of course the seven million you could spread over three years but anyways it's still a lot of money uh you know how can you justify that this star signing does not participate in the tour of france and goes for gc very good point very that that that is the point actually is the same thing with tom pickock he's their flagship rider he's got to go and he's got to compete at least or be seen to be doing that yeah matthew van der poohs same thing you know matthew van der pooh doesn't doesn't like the tour. He has to go, but he goes and he wins stages. Yes. So stage 15, we got to preview this thing. 184 kilometers. Tomorrow stage, Sunday, final stage before the second rest day.

There are four categorized climbs, a cat three, a cat one, a cat three, and then an HC climb, absolutely brutal finish. We did this final stage of the dophine, won by Isaac Del Toro. Johan, if you want to bet on it, you can go to nxtdbets.com slash bet outcomes. and it will show you exactly how to bet. Where to bet, you can shop the lines, which is key. The favorites for the stage, not as juicy as yesterday. People are on to us. Taday Pagachar, mine is 200 for the stage.

Richard Carapaz plus 500. Isaac Dottoro plus 1,100. Tobias Holland, Johansson, plus 1,000, time and Aronsman plus 3,000. Derrick G. Up here, plus 4,000. Who do you think is going to win this stage? I think so, too.

I think so. It's a straightforward stage. It's super hard. This climb is incredibly hard. It's, I mean, not going to, maybe the tourmalet is probably harder. But still, it's, I don't know if the tourmalet is harder, actually. It's longer. I think this is harder than the tourmalet.

But this is 9% average. Yeah. Nah. Balachar's winning. This might be the hardest climb they do at this tour. And, you know, I mean, we could see the same thing as we saw today, you know, the UAE keeps it close. Then when we get to the bottom of the last climb, we see Deccatlon and Visma trying to get rid of Ayuso and Remko and Lipowitz. And then Poachar attacks the 2K to go.

Short effort. I mean, another minute in the back. This is this and Alpduaz are probably the most straightforward. I'm trying to bet. I'm trying to get my money in on him before people hear this. But this and Alpduez are probably the two most straightforward summit finishes we have. I have a hard time seeing how he doesn't win. I think probably minus 200.

I think Spencer, I mean, if you look at the toughness and the difficulty of this climb, I think plateau the what they call, plateau de Soleon. I think it's harder than Albuels. it's a full like percentage points deeper you know and it's also it's it's it's it's you know if i remember correctly what i saw in in the dauphinet it's like it's constantly i mean there's no like obdou es it's it's obviously hard but obd the west is different you know you have the switchbacks the switchbacks the switchbacks are flatter you can get you can get have you ever written obdoues yeah and it's like it's odd because it's flat corner flat switch

Yeah, the corners are flatish. You know, you can come up, back up to speed. So obviously, that brings with it that, you know, the speeds are all the west are incredibly high compared to like another 11 kilometer climb, which is constantly up. But, but yeah, I think this climb is actually harder than all the west. Yeah, that's what I was, I was trying to tell the guys that they've never seen this climb because they don't watch the dophine, but it is, it's really hard. I think Pagatra's probably going to win and extend his G. Who do you think, who comes in second on the day? On this climb, I think Jonas and Saksas come together.

Okay. Same time. Second and third on the day. There's your podium over the day. Yeah. And are you ready to do Ventum trivia? Yep. Let's go.

So the question yesterday was who was the, so there was an artist for, Frederick August Bartoli, who did the giant lion statue we saw outside of Belfort. What other, what other statue that they construct stuff going on here? Very distracting. What other statute did they construct that's very famous? What other landmark? Do you have an answer? I know the answer is the statute of liberty.

Yes, the statute of liberty. Yes. And if you thought, wow, that's easy. I could have answered that. Go to ventumvassing.com slash the move. to enter your answer and it will enter you to win a free not a free I guess you get $5,000 toward an NS1 or GS1 of your choice and if you're there you can shop with the move 10 for 10% off either an NS1 GS1 TT bike triathlon bike e-bike if you'd like I would highly

recommend the e-bike while you're there and today's question is stage 14 crosses the ballon actually stage 13 and 14 cross the balonde Sass, a category one climb. Credited as the first major mountain climbed in the tour's history, what year did it earn that distinction? Again, go to ventumracing.com slash the move to enter the answer

to be entered to win a free bike. Do you know, don't answer, Johan, do you know the answer to this question? I don't know, but I'm actually not, I mean, since I said that initially the tour was just around France, though they haven't gone, they didn't pass any mountain.

mountain regions. They just went around the border. So must have been in the early in the early years, I think. Yeah. And the unusual thing about this is it's a mountain on the border with Germany or close to it. So they would have crossed it. I didn't know this. It was way earlier than I thought it was actually.

That's your hint. Pre-Tormale. But anything else, Johan, before we take off? That's it. I think we saw a nice stage. and tomorrow is much harder than today, actually. I know, and today was not easy. It was not easy at all.

It was not easy at all. No. We haven't talked about it, I think, at all this tour, but also tomorrow. But today was a low altitude. Tomorrow is lowish altitude as well, which is good for Fogacar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not the high ones yet. So I think, I don't think that I think. What do you say, which is good for Pogacar? Yeah, I just tend to think like these, it's like steep. is at low altitude for someone that produces a lot of power and is a little bit heavier. That like low altitude climb is good. Are you hinting that he's not good at high altitude? No.

The others, I would say the others are more disadvantaged at low altitude climbs than high altitude climbs. Things tend to get evened out when the altitude gets higher. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, if I'm going to say conservatively, conservatively tomorrow he's going to happen before going to the high altitude, mountains he's going to have a lead of five and a half minutes so so it's four and a half right now I think that's right yeah yeah yeah he puts a minute into them whatever he wants yeah yeah yeah five and a half minutes and then he can he only has to win one or two more stages in the high mountains boom he just needs to follow Jonas that's it yeah yeah so this is at tops out at 1500 meters average

a nine percent you come couldn't come up with the more perfect pagacha climb this thing's going to be, I would guess, a bloodbath. Well, we'll be back. We'll be back to talk about it after the stage tomorrow and then we will not not be back on the rest day. So we'll be back tomorrow right after the move to talk about it. Okay. Thanks, Spencer. All right, bye, Johan.